Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk - Not all buyers agents are the same

Episode Date: September 12, 2024

The saying ‘buyer beware’ was never more significant than today, strangely enough, as we are seeing more help for buyers. The flood of inexperienced buyers agents who rely on little more than desktop valuations is making it difficult for unsuspecting investors to find experienced and professional buyers agents.  We thought, rather than talk to an industry professional who has a vested interest, it would be more valuable to seek insights from an experienced hands-on investor.  Today you will meet Azeem Rahman, an 8 year investment veteran with a $3M portfolio.  Also in the show, we tackle a very serious topic.   Domestic violence in Australia is now so prevalent that it is impacting landlords and tenancy agreements.  We discuss the built in protections every landlord needs to be aware of as we speak to Kieran Kannan from Odyssey Property Concierge in Brisbane.    Where to find the best Buyers Agents Subscribe for free to Realty Talk on the Property Hub channel, join our community and get more insights here: https://linktr.ee/propertyhubau Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

hello and welcome to the show well the saying buy and beware was never more significant than today strangely enough as we are seeing more help for buyers property experts and the strategists and the specialists and the coaches and the mentors so it's quite prevalent across a lot of different players within the industry the flood of inexperienced buyers agents who rely on little more than desktop valuations, are making it difficult for unsuspecting investors to find experienced and professional buyers' agents who add significant value to securing high-performing properties. To help, we thought that rather than talk to an industry professional who has a vested interest, it would be far more valuable to seek insights from an experienced hands-on investor.

So Bushy talks to Azeem Rahman, who well and truly fits that bill. I will introduce Azeem to you later in the show. But first up, we tackle a very serious topic. Domestic violence in Australia is now so prevalent that it's impacting landlords and tenancy agreements. We discuss the built-in protections that every landlord needs to be aware of as we speak to Kieran Cannon from Odyssey Property Concierge in Brisbane. Before we start, I want to thank our supporters and content partners, Realty.com.au, bmt tax depreciation know how property finance and appira marketing you'll find us on all podcast players as the property hub also on the southern cross australia network hot copper and all social

media platforms finding the perfect investment property shouldn't be stressful at realty.com.au we connect you with expert buyers agents who do all the hard work for you. Whether you're buying your first property or adding to your portfolio, our trusted buyers agents will guide you every step of the way. Realty.com.au, your gateway to the investment property of your dreams. Find your perfect buyers agent today. Visit realty.com.au now to get started. Realty Talk and your host, Bushy Martin.

now state and territory governments across the country are aware of the quite complex issues surrounding significant increases in the incidence of domestic violence and in recent times have actually amended tenancy legislation to address the needs of those that are affected by it but what does this mean for investor landlords and property owners well to answer this kieran cannon from odyssey property consortium brisbane joins us to reveal what this means to you and what you can can and need to be doing about it. So welcome back to Realty Talk, Karen. Thank you. Hello. But the interesting topic, and certainly something that's increasingly on the rise, sadly,

I guess what I'd love for you to do to set the context around this topic is to give us a bit of a rundown on what has been previously tenants' responsibilities for breakaways due to domestic violence in the past look pre-october 2021 tenants really only had one option and that was to break their lease they would still be they would still need to wear the costs associated with breaking a lease which obviously if you're in that situation the last thing you i imagine want to do is be paying all these fees you just want to get somewhere safe so october 2021 new legislation came into play around giving a reason for a tenant to terminate a tenancy and that being completely legal, obviously no penalties. So that came in October. So basically now a tenant can

fill out a Form 20, it's called. So that's just terminating a tenancy's interest in a property. Basically, they are required to give seven days notice. And then after that seven days, their interest in that property ends. Now, their interest in that property, that means their rent that means any domestic violence related damage to the property it does cover anything related to that so their interest ends okay right so they're basically clean slate the point given given obviously they're going to be focusing on more important life-threatening issues at that time and it absolves them effectively any further responsibility for the property. I guess that the thing that flows from that for me, and I want to play devil's

advocate a bit here, are these new domestic violence measures themselves then actually open to potential tenant abuse? Look, I think anything is open to abuse, right? These changes came in to, I guess, protect those who need it, but there's always going to be people who will take advantage. I guess the process is, you know, if you've got two tenants living in a property, one of the tenants feels out of form 20, basically claiming that they have been a victim of domestic violence. Agents aren't actually allowed to communicate that to the co-tenant until the seven days has lapsed, unless the agent feels that it's incorrect and they're going to challenge it in a QCAT. But I mean, you know, we generally would take these things very seriously. But then

we did have a scenario where tenant A did fill in the form 20. And then after the seven days passed, we were able to inform tenant B. Tenant B had police records, had everything. They were in fact the victim of domestic violence. So it can be open to be abused. However, my thoughts on that kind of, you know, if it protects nine and one person takes advantage, the odds are still quite good yeah very well said now while the new safeguards are quite understandable to help protect tenants that are suffering these difficult circumstances what are the impacts both financial and otherwise for investor landlords that find their property in that position look they the it can be huge i mean if it if if a tenant vacates after seven days

your property is no longer income producing you know your agent will hopefully advertise the property immediately once they receive that form 20 but i mean as far as if there's domestic violence related damage to the property that falls back on the landlord to remedy if there is rent missing that's you've just got to wear that so i think like that realistically the only way a landlord can safeguard themselves against this is to make sure they have the adequate insurance so landlord insurance you know there are so many insurance providers out there so making sure that your policy actually covers this because as we know you know insurance companies i won't say anything but just make sure your policy does cover that i mean the the statistics in queensland

something like one in four women one in seven men will experience domestic violence so they're pretty high figures right i think i i saw a statistic this last financial year sorry where the 2nd of july last financial year around 50 000 protection orders were issued last year just in queensland like that that is a lot of people experiencing domestic violence so i guess and and that's that's not a rise from the previous year so if you're going to protect yourself against being out of pocket i think the only way to do that is to make sure you have the correct insurance yeah no well said i well one of the issues that are associated with it is we've talked about unpaid rent. We've talked about the reletting costs. We've talked about potentially

malicious damage to properties that could be incurred in a situation where there's domestic violence going on. One of the things that I don't think gets a lot of airplay, and I'd love to expand on this, is that quite often it then becomes the landlord's responsibility to dispose of the tenant's abandoned possessions. Am I right in saying that? And if so, how is that managed in the context of the queensland environment so in queensland we can't just dispose we need to actually store so we need to store belongings obviously it's kind of categorized so depending on what value we put on different things determines how long we have to store that for the the so we did go to qcat last year for a domestic violence case now in this instance

even adjudicators aren't particularly sure where certain things fall i guess maybe they haven't seen enough cases come through yet but the the legislation i think the adjudicator at one point said to put it down to a drafting error when i questioned how the legislation you know it was almost contradictory within the same text so sorry i've gone off topic there a little bit um no i haven't because the interpretation is sorry yeah yeah i i think you've hit a really good interpretation of the interpretation it doesn't matter what's written down it's how it's interpreted and uh often it's going differently and therefore it's not cast in stone anyway in relation to the way the position treatment is going to be

looked after but but i i guess the important point here is that it's not just a matter of know right we're going to take all that tenant's possessions to the tip which a landlord might be tempted to think that they have a my understanding is they have a legal responsibility to want to store that in a in a an effective that it may be a separate shed on the property if it's weatherproof and treated accordingly or otherwise it's potentially going to be storage costs there to some degree to give the tenant some opportunity when they're back on their feet to then reclaim those possessions that they had to walk away from am i right in saying that you are however so in other situations so if a tenant just abandons a property

we need to still store their belongings we can charge them for storage costs it's not clear what happens or who pays the storage costs in a domestic violence situation so it will come down you know if you do end up in qcat it will come down to a ruling there but i mean i do feel that insurance depending on the policy would cover any associated costs yeah no very good point storage would come yeah no that that's a great point i probably wouldn't mind drilling into the insurance piece a little bit more because you've tasked a lot already but yeah i know from previous experience that if you're uh as an investor silly enough to buy the cheapest insurances available it's generally cheap for a reason uh and if you're getting a

general insurance policy that doesn't really specialize in the the landlord insurance piece then you're exposing yourself to pretty considerable risk you're able to and without naming anyone to keep it uh and amenable to everyone can you talk about some of the provisions in some of the specialist landlord insurance policies that will actually help them to mitigate the issues that they may incur if they're caught up in a domestic violence issue and i'm talking here about you look i've seen policies yeah go on i i've seen policies and this is all kind of i guess quite new to insurance policies and probably because domestic violence is you know it's particularly peaked during covid and it's been on unfortunately it seems like a

steady rise so insurance policies have had to kind of update this so i've seen policies that will include lost rent will include will include re-letting costs will uncover any malicious damage to the property so that's caused by you know the perpetrator of the domestic violence so it will cover like up to x amount of weeks because you know obviously in in today's climate tenants are usually looking anywhere from two to four weeks out from their move date so you there's a very high possibility that you will have a period without rent so making sure you've got a policy that covers that and it's not you know there's no caveats around that which they tend to be yes yeah i think that would be your best safe gut yeah and i think there's also uh some of

the policies will cover up to a year's worth of denial of access if you caught a situation where one tenant leaves because of domestic violence but the other perpetrator is potentially still on the property but they're not paying rent then you've got that potential but i think some of the good policies also cover expenses relating to legal proceedings if you have to try and evict tenant over the loss of rent and the opportunity to the cost of changing locks and and and whatnot so i guess or even the theft by some of the other tenants that it gets messed up in that whole situation so i think uh you know what what's really clear for anyone listening in is have a damn good look at your landlord insurance policy to make sure that in the event it occurs and and

it's an increasing exercise that the only other thing that i think is probably worth mentioning here and talking directly yeah to what you help people with is make sure you've got a damn good property manager on the team that's on the top of this so they understand what the legislation will and won't allow you to do is issuing notices and treating it in the exact way because as you know if you overstep the mark or you don't issue a notice when you're meant to that can unwind the whole position that it gets in front of a tribunal hearing or other hearing to make the determination side where correct good stuff there one other thing like any comments on that look the the the rules around you know time frames from you know once you've received that notice to being able

to inform other parties it's all very strict so yes you do need to make sure you know if if your property happens to be host to one of these scenarios you would want to make sure that you know you're across the legislation your agents across the legislation and you just you can see it through you know how it's going to end it should all be quite predictable if all those steps are followed yeah now well said uh final question then do you think changes need to be made to the newly instituted legislation to better protect the interests of all the parties look we we mentioned earlier that it's obviously open to being abused i think that it's been put into place for a very good reason and that is the you know spike in numbers and um so i think

it's there to protect vulnerable people and i think at the end of the day like an investment all investments carry a certain level of risk um but at the end of the day you're you've got human beings living in your property and i think that the statistics are really sad like i said one in four women one in seven men so maybe that should also be given some thought especially if you've got an insurance policy you don't need to be worried about like how much you're out of pocket um if you if you you know if you're comfortable that you are going to be covered then that's okay but i think i think something needed to be done i don't think that a victim of domestic violence who is trying to flee for safety should be pinned for break lease costs you know so yeah i think i

think that this is a really important amendment to legislation yeah extremely well said and i think the human element here is important it's very easy for investors to get caught up in spreadsheets and numbers and percentages but at the end of the day we're providing housing yeah humans that have families and issues that they're trying to contend with there needs to be a level of empathy passion that's added into that situation i know that good landlords will will always think that way because they're thinking about the longevity and the harmony of the people that are having the enjoyment

of living in their property. So look, I really want to thank you for getting the heart of this growing and quite sensitive issue and one that landlords and investors need to be more aware of and what they need to do to respond. So thanks for taking the time

to share all of this with us here on the show today, Kieran. Thanks for having me. At Know How Property, we're more than just the best residential and commercial loan arranger. we craft a plan for your lifestyle and future with our three-stage strategy. We start with your lifestyle strategy.

Whether it's fighting your dream home in the perfect location or adding to your residential or commercial portfolio, we listen to what you want and need to do. Next, we create a financial strategy. We dive deep to uncover what you can do, ensuring your finances are set up for success. Finally, we implement our validation strategy. We become your John West of property because it's the property we reject that makes sure you get the best.

Know How Property, smart, tailored strategies for your life and investments. This is Realty Talk, powered by realty.com.au. Now, buyer's agents have become a bit of a flavour of the month in recent times, with a crowd of relatively new and many inexperienced buyer's agents flooding the market. and a lot of them are relying on social media promotion and the increasingly accessibility of a lot of desktop data to present a quite compelling story on both themselves an area and a property but sadly they often turn out to be of questionable value and it's generally way too late by the time an unsuspecting investor eventually finds us out. This is also making it a lot harder for the select

few independently experienced and very professional buyers agents who add significant value to securing high performing properties. So should you use a buyer's agent? And if you do, how can you separate the best from the rest? Well, to help you answer this, we thought that rather than talk to an industry professional who's got a vested interest in pushing their own barrow, it's way more important to seek independent insights from an experienced hands-on investor. So Azeem Rahman, who's a self-reliant investor that's grown a $3 million portfolio through sheer perseverance and determination over the last eight years joins us now to reveal his insights.

So welcome back to the show. Thank you, Bushy. And as we were just saying offline earlier, this I think will be a very interesting and insightful conversation and one that we can probably unpack into detail down the track as well too because there's a lot to actually unpack about this. There is. And having spoken offline, I will get you on to the deep dive conversation on Get Invested to do exactly that and also dive deep into your own personal journey.

Given that you've self-driven and done that pretty much unaided, that says a lot about your resilience and your ability to learn and absorb and learn some lessons and keep going. So we'll have some fun with that and we'll make sure that everyone keeps an eye out for it. But I guess sort of to hit to the dot points on the conversation today, can I get you to start by getting you to run through a bit of a summary of the tricks and traps that you've seen or experienced that a growing number of high-profile, pretty much instant overnight property expert buyers' agents are using to actually lure unsuspecting investors before we then deep dive onto a couple of the major ones? the tricks and traps that i've i've witnessed with um with buyers agents and agencies um is quite a lot in recent times and in fact it's actually with a lot of general professionals within the industry as well to the so-called property experts and the strategists and the specialists and the coaches and the mentors so it's quite prevalent across a lot of different players within the industry but definitely a lot with the buyers agents what i've seen is there is a lot of paid marketing that's

happening at the moment on social media particularly youtube ads instagram reels and and tiktok videos about boom locations um live live webinars is another one that i've seen happening a lot when in actual fact it's a pre-recorded session and and what follows these sessions should you should you attend is um relentless inquiry and follow-ups uh there's a lot of offers that get put out there by agencies and agents you know with an expiry date attached to them or quote-unquote limited time free resources which they would typically say is valued at x dollars another another trap that i've seen is charging a separate fee for a one-on-one strategy session which is a big no-no from my perspective online courses which in my opinion contradict the primary service of a buyer's

agency and what they're intending to do for clients uh another one is suggesting only brand new properties is the way to go and then they're the only types to to purchase to scale and achieve your goals through through property investing there's a lot of discouragement out there to to carry out your own due diligence and independent research uh suggestions of exclusiveness that they have the only only ones who have access to particular data or insights to a particular a suburb or type of property and the last one that i've seen is offering end-to-end services related to the whole purchasing process for a property yes sadly i've been around a long time and the the color of the chat the clothes change but the tactics don't uh in that regard as there's

different technologies they use now to do the same thing but it's it ends up with the same reception at the end of the day. Let's dive a bit deeper now with some of your thoughts on buyer's agents, particularly those who offer exclusive, silent, off-market properties, which even that scares me a little bit, and or they don't allow you the time for the sufficient independent research and due diligence that needs to be done. Give us a downline on that one. My first thoughts, Bushy, is that if you are dealing with a buyer's agent who is operating in this manner uh my my thought is to to walk away and find someone else if you're not being given the opportunity to carry your own independent research or it was only offering exclusive

off-market opportunities i'd be cautious of that i think to just to break break them my response to that in two parts firstly with silent off-market properties um there are a lot of buyers agents especially the new and emerging ones who are overnight coming into the industry they use the words interchangeably between a pre-market and off-market and they're two different things right and the reality is when you understand what truly is an off-market deal or off-market purchase they don't happen often and really good deals don't happen often so i think it's important to realize if there's an agent or an agency out there who's suggesting these type of this is what we do day in day in day out this is our bread and butter i would be questioning questioning that i

I think it instills a certain sense of false superiority for investors and it gives them a VIP mindset, which actually is a wrong approach to take. Now, when it comes to the due diligence, any seasoned investor who is listening right now would agree with me that it is critical to do your own independent research to ensure you're making the right purchase before you go ahead. Certain buyers, agents, athletes will actually dissuade you from doing that, asserting that they've actually done all the due diligence and they've carried the independent research for you which is true that's what they should be doing um but what's really happening is that they're

behind closed doors they're putting forward two deals that have already been uh discussed and agreed with either developers or local sales agents and they're being positioned to you as an off-market opportunity um the reality is everyone is using the same data sources so they should be transparent about that with you um and anyone who claims of possessing exclusive insights in particular as i said isn't probably acting in in your best interest very good thoughts uh there's a lot of gold right there and as you've sort of touched on uh i think off-market properties you've got to ask why would a seller sell a property off-market unless there was a very good reason to it because you want as many buyers as you possibly could and trying to uh boost up the

price and yes there are reasons there's divorces there's uh older people who don't want the fuss of people going through the home that there are valid reasons but they are the tip of the iceberg not the not the majority of the exercise so there's some question marks there for me uh the other thing that i you made a really good point on i think and i'd like you to expand on was the old one-stop shop end-to-end service buyers agent businesses so give us your thoughts on those yeah so there are certain individuals and companies out there that propose and what i call an all-inclusive service where they essentially oversee every aspect of the property transaction and so this might include a mortgage broker a conveyancer a quantity surveyor an

accountant and a property manager now while this is this is obviously all critical roles and players in a property transaction and it may appear as a convenient option for investors it could actually serve as a smoke screen to conceal overpriced and substandard properties and not only that but something that a lot of people aren't aware of is that these buyers agents may be receiving referral fees for all the professional services that they're introducing you to if they're not within their own agency and they're not actually you know carrying out that particular service themselves so i think it's important to remember that a buyer's agent is a very specific service and a great one will excel in what they do right so their their skills should be in relationship building data

research and analysis sourcing properties and negotiating which isn't which is a art and a science in itself so if a buyer's agent is doing that well and they probably shouldn't have a lot of time to be offering end-to-end services as well too and the last thing i would i would get people to think about is additional services doesn't necessarily correlate to a high level client service so i think it's something to to think about and what i've seen in particular buyers agents do is they offer to help you to get your self-managed super fund um to get set up set up as well too and there's a lot of ancillary um products and services that they offer out there in that regard very good commentary i've often said because i i'm vehement about this subject

as uh for a couple of reasons the ones that you've already touched on but for me uh i want robust discussions between different players in my property team and where there's disagreements, that's where I actually do the most learning. So, because you can look at the pros and cons of what's being suggested, if it's being tested by other independent professionals who are good at what they do,

but totally unrelated to the rest of the team, then collectively, as long as you're managing your managers well, you're getting the benefit of all of their thoughts and then can make a much better informed decision yourself rather than the one-stop shop where they're protecting their own backsides potentially and not really giving you the opportunity to make that truly informed decision.

So I'd love your thoughts on that. But I guess the obvious thing that comes out of all this is how can investors then best avoid these tricks and traps? Yeah, the sad reality is you won't be able to gauge from a few initial interactions with someone, a buyer's agency, whether you're dealing with an ethic individual or company. It obviously doesn't happen instantly. but there are some practical things you can do uh the first thing is uh don't trust social media

right i think there is a plethora of existing and new buyers out to emerge every single day who are driving a lot of activity and marketing their way um so i would not be trusting social media yes take it with a grain of salt but um there are a lot of as we were discussing previously bushy there are a lot of confident articulate well-spoken people who can um convey their messages in such a way that can trigger certain things in your brain and follow you around on social media but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the right fit for you or they have the right intentions in mind for you and if they're even experienced those things you won't be able to see you know on a on a youtube video or on a reel on on instagram the the second practical thing to

do is to spend the time to speak to many different buyers agents the reality is you will not be able to compare between them and understand and separate the good from the bad if you're not speaking to a lot of different buyers agents so whether regardless of whether you have your mind set on a particular agency or not um still spend the time speaking to a number of them so you can do a bit of bit of objective comparison uh the third thing i would do is use the third person as a sounding board you know for me personally with every decision that we make i always use my wife as a sounding board so for you whoever that is whether it's your spouse uh a family member mentor or a coach you know get their views on the bias agent that you're interacting with

them by sharing the information with them get them to hop onto the call with you and and genuinely listen to what they have to say don't look for confirmation bias but actually but actually listen to what they have to share with you and take that into consideration and the last thing that i think a lot of us don't do but we should in this regard is trust your gut don't merely rely on what you see reading here your intuition plays a larger role than you actually think so trust it absolute gold right there because and uh you know you've made a really interesting point about getting your partner or someone else in on the call because if you're intently listening to what they're saying often you're missing the body language that's communicating communicating

far more than what the words are often so if there's two of you doing that then you've got a much better chance of that that bs indicator that that's firmly implanted in all of our guts uh to tell us what the what the true feeling is on on that and it's really you make a really good important point if it doesn't feel right doesn't matter how good someone is or says they are or can demonstrate it doesn't feel right walk away it really is as simple as that so absolute gold there and i guess brings us to an obvious conclusion then as when should investors consider using a buyer's agent and if so if they do how can they ensure that they're engaging good one so i think the short the short answer is it it depends and it depends on a on a range

of factors um and i think you need to identify based on these factors um whether it is appropriate for you so for me and what i've come to see objectively i think there's five key factors that you need to reflect on that should help you then determine whether you do need a buyer's agent so those five factors are passion data mindset time affordability and risk appetite so i'll just walk through these five factors in a little bit more detail so when i talk about passion you know you need to be asking yourself do you have a genuine passion for real estate do you enjoy keeping up to date with what's happening it's something that you find yourself thinking about in your spare time so i think passion is something to think about because if you have a passion

passion for anything in life, you will find the time to do it. So I think passion is a good starting point to reflect on. The second is data mindset. Property is the finance and the numbers game. So anyone who's seasoned in this game knows that. So you need to ask yourself, would you enjoy carrying out data-driven research and making decisions based on it? And if you're not, could you train your mind to actually enjoy it? I was actually someone who didn't enjoy the numbers, but I actually over the course of understanding the process and going through it I my mind was actually trained to enjoy it so don't just shut it off and say okay I'm not a numbers person but dig a bit more deeper and ask yourself you know is there something that I could potentially train

myself to enjoy the third is time we're all time poor people you know in this day and age but the reality is you need to carve out a few hours to carry out the research for a particular period of time for you know anywhere from one to two to three months it's not a 365 day activity where you need to be doing research to purchase an investment property if you're switched on if you're committed if you're dedicated between one to three months you should be able to secure a good property um so you would you need to then think about okay can i factor can i factor in a few hours of research every week for that period the fourth one is affordability i think this is a very key one bushy you know a buyer's agent anywhere could be charging from 10 to 15

thousand dollars and you need to be thinking about the long term and not just tactically purchasing a investment property is do i have the ability and the affordability to actually pay for a buy that in services for the long term and if your strategy and your roadmap requires you to be purchasing say you know four or five investment properties then that's anywhere from 60 to 75 thousand dollars in addition upfront costs that you will need to be need to be paying so can you afford to do that uh is something you need to ask because if you can't then you're going to actually cause yourself issues down the track where you cannot execute on your long-term plans because you can't afford to pay for a buyer's agent and you know you actually don't know how

to carry out due diligence yourself and the last one is risk appetite you know would would you have a good sleep at night factor knowing that someone else is in the driver's seat um in achieving your financial goals or conversely would it give you peace of mind instead so i think there are the answers to these factors should paint a clear picture in anyone's mind of if they do need a buyer's agent or not. Beautifully summed up and some really important things to take into consideration. And a lot of those that you mentioned, people don't spend much time thinking about at all. So really thanks for sharing that. Really great insights and warnings, I think, on making sure that you're finding a proven and experienced independent buyer's agent with

demonstrate the experience if you're actually going to engage one and if it's appropriate to do so then you need to make sure that they can add significant value and actually help you turn your dreams into reality rather than getting sucked in by the growing board of average ones that can leave you actually spending a lot of money and creating some nightmares in the experience side look again really appreciate you coming on board to share all that with us getting it firsthand from someone who's been in the trenches and doing it rather than someone who's beating their own chest saying how good they are to defend their profession is is worth a lot to us on the show here as and really appreciate you coming on board to spend the time with us appreciate it

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