Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: The more things change the more they stay the same

Episode Date: May 7, 2022

To mark the 500th episode of the show, Bushy and Kevin reflect on the show’s development over the last decade, the changes and issues it has highlighted over the years, Kevin’s most memorable interviews, and his thoughts about the future.  Kevin and Bushy also discuss the issues for property enthusiasts that have not changed. RealtyTalk is your trusted voice in property investment and Australia’s most popular online property show.  RealtyTalk is brought to you by Realty, Australia’s leading search and social property distribution platform that helps investors like you beat the crowd, giving you the earliest access to property opportunities, listings, and insights. Check out Realty. RealtyTalk is hosted by top property investment expert, author, and founder of KnowHow Property, Bushy Martin. Find out how Bushy’s KnowHow team helps investors unlock freedom with finance and property here, and check out Bushy’s podcast Get Invested.  RealtyTalk is supported by BMT, a company that helps property investors save thousands of dollars each year by maximizing tax deductions from investment properties. Find out more.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Realty Talk, the show that brings together the country's most authoritative and respected property experts. Follow us on all the socials and subscribe for updates and exclusive offers. Realty Talk is powered by realty.com.au, connecting buyers, sellers and agents differently. Greetings and welcome. Now today we're going to break with Realty Talk tradition because we're really excited to be celebrating something very special. Because who would have believed that when industry veteran and the founder of the show, Kevin Turner, first started Real Estate Talk over a decade ago now, that it would grow into the longest running and most popular property show in the country and become your

trusted voice of property, enjoying a regular listening audience of over 120,000 and becoming your go-to place for all property industry leaders, innovators, and interests. So to celebrate the release of our 500th show, over the next couple of weeks, we're joining with Kevin alongside some of the leading lights in property who've been with us and supporting Kevin over the last 10 years or more, where we'll reflect on what has happened in property over this time, what we've learned, and what's likely to happen in the future. So to kick things off today, I have the very rare privilege of picking Kevin's brains with his reflections on the journey so far, along with these learnings, and in coming weeks

will be joined by leaders like Margaret Lomas, Tim Lawless, Pete Wargent, Louis Christopher and others to not only look at the past but also at the exciting property opportunities in the days ahead. We've got some great wisdom to share so let's get on with this very special show. Property deductions can save you thousands of dollars each year. To make sure you maximise deductions you need to work with the most experienced quantity surveyor in the country. BMT Tax Depreciation is the leading specialist in the industry. They've completed over 700,000 tax deduction schedules for residential investment and commercial properties Australia-wide. BMT guarantee to find double your fee in the first full financial year deductions.

Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote. G'day and welcome to your quincentenary show, Kevin Turner. I'm both humbled and honoured to have this very rare opportunity to draw on your amazing wealth of wisdom gleaned during the last 500 shows. So to kick things off, mate, what was your vision for the show from those early days and has it changed at all? Well, I guess, no, it hasn't changed. And in fairness, I probably should just paint a bit of a picture

about how we actually got to it, which was 10 years ago. I became a real estate agent in 1988. after nearly 20 years in radio. So it was sort of like the second career for me to move from radio to real estate. There's a whole lot of reasons why I did that, but I won't go into those now because it's not all that important. So while I was still in real estate, in 2010,

so I'd been in real estate a few years, I was invited to host a real estate show on a local Brisbane radio station for BC. And I figured at the time, well, actually, I approached them and they said, yeah, well, look, it's strange that you should talk to us because we've been thinking about doing the same thing. And it was a talkback show, so it fitted the format quite nicely. And I just thought it would be a lovely way to marry two

of the passions that I have. One is communication and media, and, you know, I love that. And the other one is real estate. And I learned to really love real estate, not because I liked houses, but because I just love the thought of real estate and watching people create wealth out of it. And I was just totally fascinated by it. So even though I sort of fell into real estate, I actually really loved it. Now, the way it worked, because I was still in real estate at the time I started that

radio show and i used to do the show early in the morning it ran from i think in the early days it was eight to ten or eight to nine then they extended it eight to ten so i'd do the show and then i'd race out and do my open homes and um you know it was so full-on thank goodness i was a lot younger than what i am today but um and then they extended it and they did something on saturday afternoon so i'd actually after my opens and everything i'd race back and then i'd have to put together an assembly of what happened on that particular day. So Saturdays for me were really, really busy. I bet they were.

The show ran for over 10 years until 2020. And it was in 2012 that I actually launched a podcast version of that show. So I've been going for a couple of years. And I've got to say, in those days it was called Property Uncut. It wasn't called Real Estate Talk. but I'll come to that later. But, you know, in those days, in 2012, podcasting was really right at the cutting edge.

Totally. And I've got to admit that the first few shows were really sort of like a compilation of what I did on air. So I'd record the stuff on air and then punch it together as a webcast and send it out. I did that for a couple of reasons because I wanted to build my own listener base as opposed to something on radio when I really didn't know who was listening but I figured

that podcasting, and it did, gave me the opportunity to talk almost one-on-one. And I found that people, I would know who they were because they'd subscribed to it. Yep. And, you know, it's funny, Bushy, the first 100 people I got, I thought, wow, this is brilliant. And then I remember getting to 200 and 250 and I've got to say

when i got to about 500 it was really hard like i at that stage i mean that was like a drip feed and then i have to go to a much broader market and i guess that was the first 500 was really because i had a listener base through 4bc right then i had to go further i feel and and try and build listeners in areas that i'd never ever had any involvement in whatsoever so it really became hard graft. And I remember, you know, that dragged on for a couple of years. So I think your original question was, was it, did I have the view that it was going to be like it is today? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Look, to be honest, I can't remember. But I think in fairness, I had these stars in my eyes and and i just wanted to become um i just wanted to to follow my passion which was broadcasting and real estate well my chips fell you know i really wasn't sure to be honest well i tell you what uh pretty cutting edge stuff at the time and quite pioneering in its uh interaction mate and and i know that's on the strength of your own uh giving and selfless personality mate that has attracted so many people one to come on the show but two to uh listen to it mate so uh talking about the show in those early days can you remember back to the very first show on who you had on it i can and in fact when i knew we were going to be doing this

series i i jumped back in i've kept every show every interview that i've done there's about 5 000 of them now um but i've kept every single interview that i've done and um i went back and one of my old drives and and i picked it up and i realized then that the show originally as i said at the intro there was called property uncut and that first show was the 10th of february 2012 right um and then it became real estate talk in episode 38 and then it became realty talk when i amalgamated my company with the realty media group and that was on episode 459 so we're only looking at about you know what's that 40 odd episodes ago which is closed in a way is like you know a year or something so um yeah look the first show on february 10 just to show you that

you know while everything changes stays pretty much the same i i had a quick listen to it and it was all about um the property investment strategies and the different strategies and and this all came about because i was really trying to expand my own knowledge and by that stage after doing the show on 4bc for a couple of years i knew some you know really really good people let me just play for you the intro to that very first show this will tell you something hang on right this is property uncut bringing together leading authorities on the property market each week we take a fresh look at the market so you get all the facts to help you make the right decision now here's your host kevin turner hello and welcome

to the show what we're going to be tackling for you this week and next week are the different types of property strategies. You've got the ability, of course, to buy overseas. The USA is receiving a lot of publicity right now. You could be investing for capital growth. You might want to look at the mining town, some great returns coming from those. There's also investing for cashflow. And what about buying property off the plan? These are all strategies and they all have their pros and cons. Mate, that was brilliant. And it just reminds me how little has changed since that very first show can you remind us who the actual guests were on that show that talked about those strategies yeah rachel barnes was uh first up and

rachel talked to me about buying property in the usa and in those days you know that was that was huge but of course it also came with a lot of dangers because the way you buy and sell real estate in the states is totally different from australia you know there's a lot of um surety about buying in australia whereas in america it's very much um you know you can almost hand the keys back if if you can't the house is handed back well i was one of those who jumped on a plane and went to the states and spent three months there buying properties kevin and uh i can tell you firsthand of what you've just said it's smack on the money we we are so far ahead of the pack back here in Australia, compared to the states

that it's a completely different kettle of fish. So a pretty good topic to be talking about at the time. And even in property management too, the thing I found was that they weren't really up with property management in Australia and I think since then I've noticed a lot of property management people in Australia, very talented people have gone across and opened up what are now very successful businesses there

and there's one in particular, Ray White Surface Paradise, which is one of the biggest ray-wide offices in Australia, now Australasia, and they're very successful. They run a great operation out of America. So, you know, full marks to them. And I think that's when we realised that, hey, we're not such a small player on this field. You know, like we're pretty good at what we do.

So, yeah, so they were the first guests. Oh, sorry, Rachel Barnes, then Monique Waitland, and Monique spoke to me about capital growth and gearing a property, you know, what you can do with capital growth. And that was like, that really opened my eyes. And then our old mate, Terry Ryder, who's still with us. You know, Terry just shines because he's been doing his...

Hotspotting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, his shows for years and years and years. He talked about mining towns and the pros and cons of it. And if you remember mining towns in the USA investment, you know, that was in the days when people were really looking for different ways to make money because I think at that stage flipping had almost sort of died down a bit and it wasn't as popular as it was maybe 10 years earlier. So mining towns became the big thing.

And I remember Terry was very, very wise. Terry sort of said, well, yeah, it's great, but remember it's not going to last forever. And, boy, he was so right. you know many many people lost lots of money over the mining towns and there was no way that it could be sustained i mean at some stage the mining companies that they did they were going to start to put in their own housing because it was becoming too expensive because if we remember they were actually subsidizing it exactly that's exactly right and and the learnings we took away

from that is don't invest in the mining towns but invest in the places that people are living that they're going to go to the mining towns. That's right. Terry, it's still a consistent player and he'll be back on the show in a couple of weeks' time, Kevin. So he's been a strong supporter. Terry's great. And the other person who I've enjoyed working with over the years

is Margaret Lomas. Margaret is absolutely stellar. She's had a fabulous career. It's not over yet. She's still going. And she was actually in those days on Sky TV and I shared a couple of spots with her on that occasion. But she talked to me about one of the things

that she's still very passionate about and that is that people calling cash flow positive property a strategy and it's not a strategy, it's an outcome. And when she said that I was going to challenge her on it and then she explained it and I thought, yeah, well, actually she's spot on. It is an outcome and you can only get cash flow positive property if your borrowings are low enough.

Exactly right. So it's an outcome. Yeah, no, great start and a pretty stellar line-up for the first show. If we sort of look back across the decade then, what have been some of your most enjoyable and memorable interviews across that time, mate? Yeah, great question, mate. And with, you know, 5,000 under our belt,

that's a very hard question to answer. But could I just give it to you in broad terms and say, it's uh it's anyone who challenges our thinking it's anyone who comes up with um hey here's here's a different way you should look at investing in property and i cite here as an example you know some of the lifestyle changes we've seen over the last decade um you know where we've seen kids staying at home longer we've seen mom and dad the bank of mom and dad as a great example intergenerational housing which has been something you know of a more recent time where downsizes have gone to go back and live with the kids as opposed to kids living with the

parents yeah um you know anything that reshapes the way we think about property or the way we live they're the issues and the discussions that i've always found most stimulating bushy and and really really interesting because the people who we've chosen to have on the show they know and you do the same thing you know you're doing a great job of anchoring the show now and the thing that i love about what you do is that you bring you know a different level of expertise to it much more than me because you know my my background was purely as a real estate salesman but you bring a lot of finance and that's why i've enjoyed working with you over the years too i think the first book you ever wrote what was that um the freedom formula mate yeah yeah

which which sort of uh sort of steps through the the whole process and i think you uh undermine yourself and you're way too humble there Kevin but I mean you started off with a great cast and you've certainly continued to attract the best of the best and the cutting edge in property but now might be a good time to take a very short break so say with us. Can I make one point and this is before I forget it. In all the years I've been doing this show and all the people I've spoken to and there's hundreds of them I have never ever been asked to pay for an interview and I think that says a lot about the people we've chosen to work with is that they just give give give and you know sometimes they've got absolutely nothing to promote there's nothing going to come out of it

so whatever time they've given me there's no absolute return for them so it's it's it's this is like a wonderful giving area for sure totally agree and it all starts with you mate it's your selfless giving that attracts that reciprocal behaviour in the guests that come on the show. And, I mean, you've created an amazing legacy, which I feel very humbled to step in and help you with, mate. So we're loving the journey. So let's take a short break then and make sure you stay with us

as after the break, Kevin's going to share his top takeaways and learnings from the show. successful property investment is a game of finance do you have the right team and the right game plan realty talk is brought to you by know how property more than mortgage brokers bushy martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs tax risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth know how has helped over 1,900 homeowners and investors secure more than $800 million in property wealth. So get set to live more, work less, and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom?

Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. Welcome back. Now, as we continue to look back on the last 500 episodes, Kevin, what have been your top takeaways and learnings from the show? Wow. Okay. You gave me some forewarning on this, so I'm going to read from a few notes here. So not wanting to give anything away. But property is not a get rich scheme. That's number one. Because so many people come to us and say, I want to make money out of real estate. Or they see someone make money out of real estate and they think, oh, this is so easy. Forgetting that it's probably taken them five, maybe 10 years to get to that stage.

So it's, I think I've heard you say this, it's wealth by self. And, you know, there is, it's a bit like, you know, the tree that grows quickly is probably going to be a rubbish tree. But if you look at pine trees or, you know, really quality timbers, they take years, they take decades to grow. So don't be a weed in property investment. and make sure that you're a good tree with great foundations. And those foundations come from research.

So I say again, this is not a get-rich-quick scheme. You know, the other thing too, Bushy, is that the people I've seen who have become very successful at this are those that are very well prepared. They're constantly learning. And the other thing is they make decisions. Yes. Because it is so easy to become paralysed with analysis,

you know, analysis by paralysis. Was it paralysis by analysis? Yep. You know, you can overanalyse anything. Yeah. When you're on to something that you've researched and you believe in, act on it. You know, it's not always right, maybe, but two things,

make a decision quickly to get into it and make a decision quickly if you need to, to get out of it. So people who make decisions. So that's point number two. I think wealth is the transfer of money from the impatient to the patient. That's another one of your sayings, and you probably got it from someone else.

I don't know. Warren Buffett was famous for that one. Yeah, exactly. That's true. Warren Buffett, yeah. It reinforces that view that there is no get-rich-quick scheme. It's interesting too, Bushy. what we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.

That's absolutely true too, mate. And I've got to say thank goodness because if we could put together a show that taught everyone how never to make a mistake, we'd only ever have one show. So we've got to keep reinforcing it. And, you know, this is the interesting thing is that I said to someone the other day who was looking at, you know, the wealth of knowledge that we've got in our library and we do too but you can go back 10 years and those interviews that

i talked about in episode one i could replay today and they would still be spot on yeah because you know the lessons we learned from history if we if we could absorb all that we'd be a genius yep exactly and it's only by repetition we learn kevin i i hear all the psychologists say that you've got to hear something seven times before it sinks in. I think it's more like 77, to be honest, before you really start to absorb it into the subconscious and then turn that into action. But it's a really relevant point.

Any other major learnings you picked up there? I would encourage everyone never to listen to doomsday people. And I've interviewed a couple over the years. I probably should have grabbed, there was one in particular, He was an author who, whenever he had a book out of America, he would always come to Australia. His name doesn't come to my mind immediately. You might know who I'm talking about.

Is it Barry? What's his name, Barry? Yeah, it was Steve. I'm pretty sure it was Steve someone, Steve. Okay, yeah, it doesn't matter. Yeah, there's a few of those. And when they've got a new book, it's always, you know, crash. The crash is coming.

It's inevitable. The market is going to crash. and in fact sometimes there are journalists who do the same thing just ask terry writer he'll tell you uh there are some journalists who are sensational writers there's nothing to pick up one of the major newspapers and on the left hand side you'll see the market's going to crash and on the right hand side this is where you can go to make the most money out of real estate you know and really it's because there is no one market you know the the market will never totally tank It may tank in some areas, it may fluctuate,

but we've got to realise there is no one market. That's another great lesson. And if you do your research right and you do what we said at point number one, you'll be able to identify those very quickly. That's what Terry Wright is really good at, is picking up those hot spots. But he also knows when they're going to become unhot, when they're going to cool off.

So that all comes out of research. But the final one, and this is one it took me a long time to realise, but he or she who has the money has the power. You know, property success is a game of finance. So you've only got to look at how much clout the banks have. They're the ones with the money, right? And I remember in the early days when we bought our first property, you know, we'd almost go in, it was like a job interview.

To go and talk to the bank manager, you'd have to, you know, to put on a suit and tie and yes, mister, no, mister, you know, but things have become a lot less formal nowadays. But, gee, I'll tell you what, you've got the money, you've got the power, and it's the same in business. Yeah, some great ephemeral lessons there, mate. So if we sort of, again, looking back over the years, what has stayed the same over this time, mate?

Okay. Okay. I guess one of the, and the reason I can name these is because these are the evergreen type topics that we go through, you know, getting started, the struggle to get started. That's probably one, number one, because if you said to someone who wasn't an investor, what are you struggling with? I just don't know how to get started. And then sometimes it's going from, actually property, the first property is hard. Second property is probably a little bit easier after that it does it does get a bit tougher um but it's a struggle to get started both mentally and financially so that's something that hasn't changed the fear of missing out that

will never change you know there's something i've seen a lot of that in the last couple of years that's a human trait and uh it's it is also a very very big mistake um because you know there'll always be another opportunity even if you miss one don't fret about it don't overpay and and i guess the big lesson there is in auctions you know like if if your gut says that you shouldn't pay any more don't yeah even though someone will it doesn't mean to say they were right exactly yeah don't be scared to walk away yeah good lesson listening to the wrong people i think is that's something that hasn't changed and and that is another common fault um listening to family. I remember as a real estate agent, if I had a young couple who were probably looking at

buying their first house, they would always say, I just want to bring mum and dad back to get their opinion. I think, oh no, please don't do that. Because the best meaning friends will always try and talk you out of something. No matter whether it's right or wrong in their opinion, they always try and guard you. You think about how we bring up our kids. We like to protect them. If we had a choice um if we had the option we would fall off the bike we wouldn't let them fall off the bike yeah exactly so yeah exactly you've got to be careful who you who you listen to um scams wow they're going to be around all the time they just get more sophisticated and nowadays they're all um you know internet based so scams are always going to be with us so just be wary of that and

And in particular, I'm constantly amazed how many older generation, you know, I'm the older generation, so I mix with a lot of them, who actually do get caught in this and they do it, you know, they're just so kind that they just get sucked in. And very trusting, quite trusting because of that generation. I totally agree, mate. They're open fodder for those sort of idiots that are trying to pull the sheep from under their feet.

Mate, go back to something I said earlier. Property will always, always, always be a good investment. And the reason I say that is because we'll have highs and lows, but at the end of the day, it's a human need. We all need a roof over our heads. We're growing in population. We're getting more and more people coming to Australia, so we're always going to need...

And we are in a constant undersupply of properties. So that, to me, says property is always going to be a good investment. It's not like the stock market. Not easy to get in. sometimes not easy to get out of but it's always going to constantly grow um and in the reverse not all property is a good investment you know there's some that's not so research is the king so that they're the things that i think haven't changed over time yeah well on the flip side of that then mate uh what has changed in property over the decade that you've been doing the show

Well, the one big thing I think that's made the change is the internet, and that is the flow of information. When I first started in real estate in 1988, we controlled all the information. We were the only ones who had access to what was then called RP data, which is now called CoreLogic. So we controlled all that information. We knew what properties were selling, how much they were selling for. and we were able to leverage off that information. But then that all changed when people had freer access to this and the internet geared up.

Realestate.com.au started, Domain started, and the site that we're now associated with wasn't there in those days, but Realty. And being a director of that company and a shareholder, I can see just how much information does flow through our portal. It's phenomenal. Now that information put into like a data lake, which is what we're building now, gives consumers a huge amount of knowledge. So agents used to be the gatekeepers of all that knowledge.

It's now no longer available exclusively to them. It's available to anyone who can get it. So that's the big shift. It's almost too much information now, Kevin. I think we've gone from one to the other. Yeah, well, the data quality and the data and the ease of access, you know, is in line with what I just said. We've gone from too little to too much in some ways, which is exactly what you said. I think the other thing too, mate, is the growth in buyers agents.

We've seen buyers agents a very strong dominant force in America for many, many years. And in fact, that all came about because of their commission system over there. There's two, you know, it's very expensive to buy and sell in America, not so much in Australia. But then the Americans could never understand how we would have an agent who represents both the buyer and the seller. And the reality is that a real estate agent, traditional real estate agent, really only represents the seller. Let's be honest about it. They do not represent the buyer because their duty is to get the highest possible price for their seller. So therein lies the problem.

So they could never understand how this happened. So it was only a matter of time that we would see buyers' agents. It's not – you shouldn't look at it as an additional cost on the purchase. You should look at it as insurance because, you know, the buyers' agents we work with and we interview a lot in our show, they're very talented people and they have a buyer's interest at heart and they can and will save you potentially a lot of money. Not always, but they will.

So that's been one of them. Sorry, Matt, I know I get a bit carried away sometimes. No, no, don't apologise, Matt. This is what it's all about, Matt. I love it. Yeah, I think too because of that, the first point I made about property information, property data, because that was so, there's so much of it, we've needed to have now professionals

who can analyse that data. And here I'm talking about buyers, agents, I'm talking about, you know, professional strategy people um people like yourself you know who who can actually work with buyers people like simon presley from propertyology who's a regular guest of ours you know simon does some incredible things with data he does and you know i look forward to catching up with him in the next couple of weeks and you and i'll sort of drill down a little bit into that but yeah yeah he's very protective about the high level data because he gives it to his paying clients. That's fair enough because he's got a big investment in how he analyzes that. So

that's been another one of the changes I've seen. And therein lies another thing is that we've seen our buyers become a lot more educated in that research that they can tap into things like the internet, apps, virtual open homes, auctions, digital technology. All of that's come about because of the internet and that's changed the way we do real estate in fact here's a tip for you i reckon in the years to come we're going to see real estate offices not with the big window fronts but they're going to be totally remote we're already seeing a lot of that there are print there are groups in australia now where they don't have offices their agents are totally remote they work from an office like this like a yes someone in the room in someone's house and they're just

It's productive because everything that a real estate agent needs to do with the exception of, you know, putting up signs and stuff like that, it's all done on the internet. So that's one thing. The other thing, just very quickly, self-managed superannuation funds, the propensity of those, what's happened with them, that level of investment through that. And I think I pulled up some interesting figures here.

the ATO reported the number of self-managed super funds had increased by 24% over the last five years to $534,000 with total assets of $557 billion. Many funds are encouraging SMSF to gear into residential real estate. So we're going to see that grow even more. Yeah. Have you bought a house in an SMS self-managed super fund?

Yeah, I do. In fact, the properties I've gotten the states are through the self-managed super fund, Kevin. So, yeah, I mean, it's a very different way to buy property, but super is such a tax haven. And, you know, if you hold a property post-retirement, you pay no capital gains whatsoever. So it's a very effective way of building your asset base.

so without giving too much to the tax man yeah we've done we've done that we bought one uh in the very very early days and boy it was hard like i can tell you when they were framing up the you know how it was all going to work there were so many hoops you had to run through and i remember i don't know what it's like now but you know finance on a self-managed superannuation fund would take us anything up to maybe three months yeah you'd have to register the fund you'd have have to then you go and apply it it's like honestly it was just yeah it's a very different area it hasn't changed and in fact it's got more particular uh in recent times kevin so uh so i guess sort of looking back on all that to some degree as you've mentioned a couple of times

already it sounds a bit like the more things change the more they remain the same so uh look why don't we take another quick break and when we return we'll get out the crystal ball so uh stay with us as we celebrate kevin turner's realty talks 500th show property depreciation is the natural wear and tear of a building and its assets property investors can claim depreciation as a tax deduction each financial year depreciation is a non-cash deduction this means you don't need to spend any money in order to claim it on average bmt tax depreciation find residential investors almost $9,000 in first full financial year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote.

Welcome back. Now that we've enjoyed a great walk down memory lane, let's turn our attention to the future, Kevin. So what's your view on the future for property in Australia as we move forward? This is all going to come across as very positive because I am extremely positive about it. But, you know, I've got to say my theory has been proven in the last few years because we've gone through a very difficult couple of years.

And I remember when COVID first started, we were talking about how the market was going to crash. You know, we couldn't buy and sell the way we did before. It's incredible when you look around the world. You know, we've come through a decade that's had the worst global financial crisis in modern history. and while the rest of the world is still sort of trying to get out of all that sludge, that mess that's been created, you know, Australia just seemed to charge full steam ahead. Okay, so we had some reasonably sobering news, but really,

in terms of interest rates, but really that was always going to happen. That had to happen. We couldn't keep the interest rates as low as they were. In fact, I'm surprised that we didn't see it before now, to be honest. And the other thing we've got to remember about interest rates too, mate, is that when the interest rates go up, that's a good sign. That's a sign that the economy is starting to work. You know, like when they keep it low,

they keep it low so that they can get some stimulus. Exactly. Yeah, it's a reverse way. It's all good news. Yeah. The other thing is that the moment there's any kind of crisis, economic crisis, the first thing people look at is real estate. you know real estate jumps to the top of that political agenda so be prepared for that to

continue to happen sobering news that you know the the government whichever one gets in at the next election is likely not going to do anything about negative gearing because we really need negative gearing that's my view very strong on that and anyone who opposes it is probably simply you know never ever going to invest in property you don't realize how important negative gearing is until you become an investor in property. And having said that, I've got to say the majority of them are mum and dad type investors. They're not the, you know, there are some, you know,

very rich, well-heeled investors, but they're the exception, not the rule. Well, and 90% of residential property investors are mum and dads that own one property, mate. That's right. Yeah. And it gets back to what we said earlier too about how bloody hard it is sometimes to get up to, you know, three and four

and five properties. It's really, really hard. I mean, the next thing I think is that the way we live is changing. You know, going back, if we look at the 70s and 80s, it was all about the baby boomers, you know, going out into areas that were unmapped because they wanted to get the big backyard to raise the kids. All that was very important.

That's all changed. The internet did change a lot of that. We don't need to, you know, we don't need to. What I'm saying is that we've really traded in those backyards for the balconies. Yeah. Which goes to another point too, is that the average household size has shrunk from four and a half in 1911 to 2.7 today.

So, you know, we don't need those mansions. We don't need those big houses. We're living in smaller houses. there'll always be a need for that with the intergenerational type housing structure but really we're going vertical um and you know that's that's a big driver high-rise apartment construction is is on the growth you're only going to look at what's happened recently in melbourne and brisbane the the number of approvals in those areas uh high-rise construction booms you know, across all parts of Australia.

And I've got to say property's underlying stability as an asset class is always going to hold it in really good stead. It's a reliable investment vehicle and therefore I think is perfect for investors who are looking to achieve a balanced cash flow. So, you know, I'm very bullish about property going forward. Yeah, I'm with you, Kevin. I think as long as people need to live in houses,

is going to be opportunities and property kevin that's my my view always has been and always will be you've just sometimes got to be smarter about how you do that but tell me tell us when you first started the show do you think you'd still be educating a loyal audience across the country over 10 years later well i said it right at the start that i didn't really have a crystal ball but i i sort of hoped that that it would turn out to be the way it was you know one thing that i do know is that i still get an absolute buzz yeah as i'm doing here with you this is one of my favorite subjects and you know i go to a barbecue and i don't mind if someone says well what do you do for a living i won't tell them i'm in media i'll tell them i'm in real estate because the first

question they say how's the market how much does that one down the road sell for you know like i just love it it's it's um yeah i find that if i'm at a dinner party i can very quickly turn the conversation around a real estate yeah love it i am so yeah look i think you know i'm involved and it's kept me young you know i'm 72 years old and i still feel very very young because um i am enjoying the two loves of my life apart from my wife and the family of course they're my greatest loves but my two loves in life um property and communication and while ever you're doing what you love you're always going to stay young totally mate well the the energy that you uh uh brings to the show mate uh inspires uh all of us and uh you said you're 72 well i don't think

many of us would believe you're 72 mate so keep on doing what you're doing mate it's obviously the elixir of life i reckon it's the bike riding it's the fishing it's the kayaking you do all that and walking you know there's not a day we don't get up any morning and say we're not going to go but there are the odd mornings to be honest but but most times we'll get out and want to do something like this morning we went for a walk um you know tomorrow morning we'll go for a really nice bike ride so it's if someone had said to me five years ago that i'm going to spend a couple of hours every day either on the bike or in the kayak and some days it's three or four hours i would have said no way there's no way i could do that i can't fit it into my day

this is amazing you find the time we get up at four uh four i don't tell a lie four four thirty uh most days have a cup of coffee and we're always out doing something by five that's the goal love it it doesn't matter what the weather's like so anyway yeah mate uh that's that's the that's the the true formula for a happy and long life mate so uh it's clearly working but tell me mate looking to the good wife helps um my word mate i'm right with you there totally with you there now that just sort of um sort of one of the big questions then is what are your thoughts on the future of both realty talk and your vision for realty one of the big concerns i had many many years ago was um you know i had this huge library of people i'd spoken to over the years

which you know if no one does anything with it it has no value but if you do something with it it has enormous value so if kevin were to fall off the perch at any point in time what happens to all of that so it's taken me about two three years i guess to to really find a solution to that problem you're part of the solution um because um rolling my company um which you know was this show and also um a realty uncut which is a show we do for real estate agents and anything to do with property really i rolled that into um the realty media group a couple of years ago and that was probably the best decision i could have ever made uh they own that portal i mentioned realty.com.au yes so you know i'm a director of that company i'm a shareholder but i i no longer

have the day-to-day responsibility of running these shows and bringing you on to um to continue this to, you know, add fuel to the fire and so on and keep it burning has been, you know, one of the great inspirations for me because you're doing a fabulous job and I'm just so thrilled that we've got you in the chair. So my future view for Realty Talk is that it's just going to grow. And in fact, something I haven't even asked you about informally, but I, you know, I want to get a commitment out of you to do another show with me, which came out of a conversation I had with someone yesterday.

I'm sorry to be doing this live, but, you know, I'll talk to you about it off air, but watch out for it. We're going to call it Mailbox or something like that. Exciting. Well, I'm looking forward to that, mate. I hope you go along with it because it'll be a lot of fun. No question. Mate, I feel...

I think we're just going to grow this library and, you know, Get Invested is your podcast. It's your baby. we're going to roll that into integrate you know what you and i are doing um to actually propel it even further and there's so many other people who are doing some great work in podcasting uh and broadcasting that they probably don't have the audience but you know we're very fortunate and that we you know we're reaching about a million and a half people now every month and you know we can do a lot with that audience we need a lot of education and that's exactly what

we intend to do is give give give so um you know just just watch this watch this space uh realty talk is now as a channel on realty.com.au will continue to be that and we'll grow that um so i see it expanding yeah i'd love for you to share a little bit more on the the the realty platform too mate because there's probably a lot of the audience who just don't realize some of the innovations that Realty is bringing to the whole property market compared to the big two that people know about, and I won't mention them now, but do you want to sort of give us a little bit more of a hint on where that's all heading? Sure, mate, sure. Well, I think if you look at, when you first look at realty.com.au, you'll think it's a portal like realestate.com.au or Domain,

but it's not. It is certainly not that. I mean, anyone who thinks you can go up against those two massive companies, you've got rocks in your head. That certainly was not our goal because they're doing a great job. They are great portals and they do a great job. We've actually designed something that comes at it from a different angle and that is, I can describe it this way. Realestate.com.au and Domain have great portals and they have tremendous traffic, but they're reliant on people

coming to their website to find property. Realty flipped that around and we said, well, you know, we're not going to chase a big audience because that costs you a lot of money in marketing. You've got to spend millions and millions of dollars, and they do. They spend millions of dollars keeping the audience coming back to their website. So we thought, well, you know, what are people doing?

Where are they? How do we reach them differently? They're on social. You know, like the social play today is enormous. So people spend 80 times more on social now than they do on real estate portals. That's where they live. They're communicating, they're talking.

So we developed some technology or the people before my time developed some technology, Troy Rushton, who's the CEO and the brains behind it, he developed the technology that would any time a listing, a property is listed for sale, It goes on the other portal, sure, but if you put it on Realty, it's free of charge, no charge whatsoever, no marketing fee. It goes up on the Realty portal, which is now we've got traffic

to that of about half a million a month, and that's in itself enormous, but we attract one and a half million people from social. So the listing hits Realty, goes straight out to a geocoded Facebook page because we've got 1,000 of those in different parts of Australia. So if the house was in Bondi in New South Wales, as an example, it would go to three Facebook pages surrounding Bondi. There's already audiences on those, nearly 500,000, I think, people. But so they see it and they think, oh, that looks interesting.

Click, bang, straight back to the site. So that's how the traffic comes across. And that's the different model. So that's all free. It's totally free to get your property up on Realty and across to those Facebook channels. What you can do is that you can then boost it. And boosting can be as little as $250.

It's going to reach more people. That's the Facebook. And it goes on Facebook, goes on Instagram, goes on LinkedIn, all of those social channels, and it's all done automatically. So we're currently doing about 6,500 posts every day, every single day and you can't you can't do that manually obviously so it's all fully automated and you know that's that's what we've created as we build we're very proud of it and it's now rolling out and you know we're looking for investors into that and we're hoping that it'll

remain in the industry because we want it to be an industry play um all that data that i mentioned to you earlier that's coming through realty you know we want to be able to give that back to the industry so they can learn from it so they can um you know better serve the consumer in how properties are marketed and sold so there you go that's the five minute um uh elevator pitch on realty you know yeah elevator ride anyway but yeah i love it mate uh you deserve to be very proud of everything you've done everything you continue to do mate and clearly the the future It continues to be very bright and very exciting. So I really want to thank you for sharing all this with us.

Can I make one other point? Yeah. It's very hard to shut me up. Sorry, Bushy. Something just occurred to me. When I first started my shows, real estate, I was in real estate talk, now realty talk, and Realty Uncut, my vision was that in Realty Uncut I'd have an audience of agents.

In realty talk I'd have an audience of consumers. my view was always to bring them together you know some at some stage they'd be able to interact it didn't work the way i thought it would but that's when realty came in the middle so you've got realty talk consumers and you've got realty uncut agents and they're all working through realty so in a way it has come together but it needed that module in the middle which exactly which is exactly what realty is all about yeah i love what you've done and love what you're doing in that respect and uh you know you really do deserve to be proud mate and and and while we're at it i just want to take this opportunity to thank you kevin for your enormous amount of work

you've done and you continue to do in educating and inspiring us all your energy today has just been effervescent and you know on all things property we're learning and gleaning stuff every day and i and personally i really want to thank you also for actually helping me in my own property education over the years because i've learned a lot from listening to you uh for many years ago but also i want to thank you for the generosity and help that you've personally given me to build the get invested podcast alongside the many others that you continue to selflessly help so i know i can honestly say mate that if it wasn't for your support and guidance the podcast wouldn't be what it is today and i wouldn't have had the good fortune

to be able to sit here and assist you in hosting the show and maintaining your incredible legacy mate i believe you to say that hey bushy just looking at the at the screen here now um you can see my next passion they're my mate well you're a pro heart in the making mate there's no doubt about it so i love splashing the paint around i can tell you so yeah i absolutely love it mate well look i i really want to uh thanks heaps mate for for all this and um really looking forward to uh sitting alongside you with the the other great guests we're having to celebrate the 500 shows in the days ahead. Me too, Bushy. Thanks for your help, mate. Good on you. Thanks, mate. Successful property investment is a game of finance. Do you have the right team and the

right game plan? Realty Talk is brought to you by Know How Property. More than mortgage brokers, Bushy Martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs, tax, risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth. KnowHow has helped over 1,900 homeowners and investors secure more than $800 million in property wealth. So get set to live more, work less and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom? Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. Well, that's it for this week's very special 500th show and we look forward to continuing the quincentenary celebrations over the next couple of weeks where kevin and i have the pleasure of sharing reflections and projections

by property industry leaders and long-term show supporters like margaret lomas tim lawless pete wargent and luke christopher and a couple of others while we're there a big shout out to our sponsors realty.com.au and bmt tax depreciation for their ongoing and long-term support and in closing we'd like to thank you for all of your support over the years by taking the time to enjoy the show and we look forward to continuing as your trusted voice in property over the next 500 shows keep watching your go-to place for all things property here on Realty Talk miss something in this week's show or want to catch up on past shows do it anytime at realty.com.au where we connect buyers sellers and agents differently

Thanks for watching!