Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: This could be a ‘rip snorter’ of a year

Episode Date: February 24, 2024

This week we start to present a balanced view of the property market.   Over the next few weeks we will feature a range of respected property professionals and proven industry commentators from Bricks & Mortar Media’s annual property market forecast report that has just been released.  Bushy starts today by catching up with the author of the report Nicola McDougall.  Nicola is a Director of Bricks & Mortar Media and as the Chair of the Property Investment Professionals of Australia there is no one better to lead this conversation. NEW – join our Facebook group, The Property Hub Collective: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1857513011165686 Join the Property Hub community on Substack! Sign up to get Australian property news, opinion, and episodes in your inbox: https://propertyhubau.substack.com/ Subscribe to RealtyTalk on the Property Hub channel: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Email Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media. Business and partnership enquiries: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we start to present a balanced view of the property market. Over the next few weeks we're going to feature a range of respected property professionals and proven industry commentators from Bricks and Mortar Media's annual property market forecast report that's just been released. Hi, if this is your first time with us, welcome. You're going to find us on all podcast players and through the Southern Cross Austereo Network. If you like the show, please hit the subscribe button. Help us to continue to bring you the best guests every week. Join the conversation too anytime on Facebook at the Property Hub Collective. We'll be back in just a moment as Bushy kicks off this week's show with Nicola McDougall. Property deductions can save you

thousands of dollars each year. To make sure you maximize deductions, you need to work with the most experienced quantity surveyor in the country. BMT Tax Depreciation is the leading specialist in the industry. They've completed over 700,000 tax deduction schedules for residential investment and commercial properties Australia-wide. BMT guarantee to find double your fee in the first full financial year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote. Realty Talk and your host, Bushy Martin. Now that we're all back in the cut and thrust of the year, when sadly the news is often filled with sensationalist fear and greed driven clickbait headlines about property, we thought

an opportunity to share some more balanced views from a range of respected property professionals and proven industry commentators and on what's actually likely to happen in the wonderful world of property this year. And there's no better place to get the good oil than Brixton Mortar Media's or BMM's Annual Property Market Forecast Report, which has actually got a proven track record of capturing reliable predictions from industry leaders that consistently prove to be on the money. So to kick off our BMM expert expose and to whet your appetite on what's in store for 24, we're joined by show favourite and friend Nicola McDougall, the Director of Brex and Mortar Media, who wears many property hats, including her pivotal progressive role as the Chair of the

property investment professional at Australia All Paper. So welcome back to the show, Nicola. Hey, Bushy. Thanks for having me. Happy New Year to you, my friend. Yes, same to you. I'm pretty excited about the year ahead in property. And I actually love the fact that everyone gets on the bandwagon at this time of the year and comes up with all sorts of rubbish around property. But as you and I know, we've been in it for long enough. If you're doing the right thing in the right place at the right time we're always going to do okay so so I guess to get into it Nicola there's certainly no doubt that property surprised many of the mainstream punters on the upside last year so how did property perform against your expectations for 2023 and

what if anything varied and why? I think it's interesting because our report that we put out every year we're generally doing you know the commentary or the forecasting late November early December each year for it to you know for it to be released just before Christmas and so the previous year I think there was a little bit of nervousness if we compared it to the 2022 report there was a little bit of nervousness because we were in that sort of interest rate rising cycle however I think the fundamentals were underlying even that sort of the jitters that might have been out there last you know over last year and what we saw clearly was even in a period where rates were getting hiked you know almost every month we had that underlying very very strong demand

coupled with really at that point an undersupply of properties for sale in most locations around the nation and then and so what we saw was you know prices just continue to strengthen throughout the year and you know recently hitting record highs again I think a lot of people you know get confused where they think that interest rates are the be-all and end-all of the property market and that's been a common misconception for years and I would like to think last year would be the year that perhaps blows that misconception apart because we had you know record you know interest rate rises in a very short period of time yet property prices continued to rise so hopefully that sort of kills that misnomer going forward. So yeah at the end

last year clearly when we started to see a little bit of softness i think that that november interest rate rise was completely unnecessary a bit of a brain fart by the rba i think it will be proven uh it already probably has been proven that um so there's probably a little bit of nervousness started creeping back into the market uh in some locations towards the tail end of last year but geez this year it's already a bit of a rip snorter um is that a new term uh the market's being a bit of a rip-snorter at the start of this year because, as we'll talk about later in our conversation, we have had some data come out which is really starting to show the potential strengthness of markets this year. Well, let's jump straight in there, Nicola. I'd love for you

to now share your overall view on how property is going to perform this year. Look, I think I would be very um surprised if we didn't have another very strong year um it certainly has started that way you know january's notoriously quiet um but from about after australia day weekend we've started to see some very very strong results come through auction clearance rates um and certainly on the ground people are saying you know buyers agents or people involved in you know in property generally that um buyers are out in force and we're just starting to see some of those strong sales results come through again one of the reasons for that um is that we have seen that moderation in inflation um you know i'm very pleased to say that until the november rate

result i'd actually got everyone right uh in the most recent cycle uh and that one blew my blew my um you know great forecasting out of the water um and i certainly follow um you know i'm not an economist uh but i spend a lot of time looking at economic data and you know talking to people involved in the industry and i always felt um and there's been a few commentators out there that i that you know i agree with them or um that they were saying that inflation was going to moderate far more quickly than the reserve uh had indicated and lo and behold at the end of January we saw not only the December monthly results come through but also the year to December results come through and inflation like that monthly result had a three in front of

it like yeah blow me down with a feather I actually thought that it might and if you think about December seemingly everyone should be out spending lots of money because it's Christmas no so I think that really has lit a fire under markets around the nation we had the first RBA decision recently in February and clearly you know they they held that wasn't a surprise but certainly depending on who you talk to you know we could be seeing a rate cut in the next few months certainly by the second half of this year. Yeah it's certainly heading in the right direction and as you say let's hope some lessons have been learned from the exercise on the way through but sort of drilling down a little bit then what are the key drivers that we need to

be watching out for that are likely to influence properties direction this year do you think well definitely that that's number one that's number one um i think we are starting to see and i've certainly heard this from some property investment experts um in various locations around the nation it's that investor activity uh as we know through all of pipper's research we saw you know a huge volume of investors exit the market over over recent years uh however investment activity investor activity um is increasing again um around the nation according to the abs um well i think you and i have talked about this bushy on the show while investors have been selling for a for myriad reasons um and certainly in victoria

uh the the metrics for you know investment properties are very strong we have you know the potential for capital growth um this year you know uh going forward over the short to medium term but also we have those you know strong cash flow from those rising uh rising rents that have to happen uh for a bunch of for a bunch of reasons but mainly because there's just not enough supply out there um and so rents are rising but certainly in some locations we have had fairly benign rental growth in the 10 years up until covid um so i really think you know obviously owner rocks they're the ones that drive the market they are the majority of the market we are seeing more first-time buyers come back into the market uh reba actually um had some research out last week

where the number of first-time buyers had increased 13 in 12 months so even in that high interest rate environment and first-time buyers are back investors are back owner occupiers are out there buying and spending you know money well they're the three parts of the market and uh so what what do we say when we you know put all those together very very strong market conditions this year um but investors as well i think i was reading something actually the other day about you know victoria's results markets not actually that great um and what are the reasons comparatively speaking what are the reasons for that and potentially it is that exodus of investors from that market because of the plethora of rental reforms and other legislation um targeting

investors in that market um and while you know people might say oh well you know fewer investors what hurt what harm can that make well it's you know it's 30 30 plus percent of the market that can make a big difference if investors are not transacting in a particular location and it certainly seems to me that investors uh they have been exiting victoria and they are not buying into victoria in their normal volumes uh and that's not good for the overall sales market but it's also very very bad for its rental market 100 so given that sort of backdrop then nicola what are some of the important areas and sectors both good and bad that we need to be watching out for this year yeah look bushy you know you and i we've been doing this for a long time um i am very very um

disappointed and upset uh that's you know at the start of this year the negative gearing G&E is out of the bottle again, thanks to the Australian Greens. Last year, clearly, you know, we were having to lobby against the Greens seemingly wanting rental freezers around the nation. The Senate inquiry into the worsening rental crisis in Australia, the final report was quietly uploaded to its website in December. I actually found that report. I actually broke that story because I was looking for it

when I came back from Christmas holiday. and I realised that it had just been uploaded very quietly, looked for media, looked for any press releases. There wasn't any. And one can only presume the reason for that was the fact that the recommendations from the inquiry chair, who is from the Australian Greens, were all about rental freezers, you know, let's freeze rents for two years, let's put rental caps,

you know, can incorrect, blah, blah. Anyway, it was completely stolen from the Greens' policies about these rental, you know, controls. um so no wonder they tried to bury it they didn't though um and they didn't win that battle clearly uh and now uh the Greens are advocating for changes to negative gearing and to capital gains tax even though the Labour government has been very firm on this um they lost the 2019 federal election by taking changes to negative gearing and CGT um to that election so they would be very silly indeed uh to think about you know reigniting or re-looking at that policy and while

you know it might be um a bit of a political football at the moment because of the changes to the stage three tax cuts you know a little bit of broken promises from the prime minister um i would love to i would like to think and certainly believe that you know the federal government is not going to is not going to uh be bullied by the australian greens in this regard but it just is really concerning to me that the greens have adopted this really divisive mindset with you know with their platforms um i guess it's because you know their original platform was climate change and that is wholly accepted by society now so perhaps they're struggling to see what the point of their party is and they seem to have adopted a mindset where

it's us versus them and that is not good for anybody certainly in an environment where we have a rental crisis and investors are the answer to addressing that crisis you don't want the threat of any changes to long-standing taxation policies to impact the potential of investors either to retain their investment properties or to purchase investment properties because it will just prolong the rental crisis and drive rents even higher yeah i 100 agree i yeah i just uh why the greens have become uh ambulance chasers it really scares me it's a good term yeah it's it's a very scary concept i think you hit the nail on the head they're looking for a reason for being so they've got a gradually sensationalist quite naive and and ignorant uh approaches to something where

what they're proposing is actually going to make things worse not better uh because as you and i have spoken on a number of occasions over the years uh investors are actually a big part of a solution to uh housing woes not not the problem uh so you have to continue bashing them uh and making statements that that don't even hold any weight just really scares me actually and i'm just hopeful that one, the policy makers and the politicians can ignore that squeaky wheel and the silent majority has still got the common sense. But stranger things have happened and once something gets momentum and the mainstream media is

looking for things to talk about, then it can take a life of its own. So I think I'm hopeful that the great work that you do at PIPA and the other associations in conjunction with the voice and support from the property hub team here can actually balance that message and put it out there to demonstrate that we should be embracing investors not not penalizing them so we're so we're just there i just had a thought there bushy which i don't know whether i should say this or not but i'm going to i just wonder if the greens are actually their role it's certainly in the media cycle now is was once the domain of pauline hansen and one nation because she would

say extreme things and and now it's the australian isn't it really if you think about it for those of us have been doing this for a long time and been you know around for a long time breathing um that is actually this that is their role now they're just like the the 20 21st century version of one nation so there you go um and they yeah the lowest common denominator in ambulance chasing like you say and um all it's doing is is dividing a wedge um in in our society um and i noticed actually recently the change in language that they're using in regards to property ownership they're talking about uh renters becoming property owners so i think that they they've obviously decided that they need to really make sure that they are seen as representing renters but they're bloody not

because by demonizing investors they're driving investors out of the market they are preventing you know the normal flow of investment into the market and that will mean that there's fewer properties the rental crisis will be even more prolonged rents will be higher so these renters who have the aspirations to become first-time buyers will struggle to save a deposit because of the higher rents so they don't represent renters they're just representing themselves absolutely spot on so we're and i know we've only just scratched the surface here but i want people to read your comments in the BMM report because it's a great reading there.

But if you were to sum things up in a word, what one word do you think is best going to describe and capture property conditions for this year, Nicola? One word from me, Bushy? What do you mean? See, look, I'm going to say 50 words before I cut. One word that's going to describe this year. Strong.

Strong. Yes, I think that's a really good choice. Well, look, again, I've said it a number of times, but I really want to thank you for always sharing your insights, Nicola, and thanks for taking the considerable time and effort to produce your expert and reliable annual BMM property market report, which we'll have a link to in the show notes for those who want to really dive into the details of Nicola's commentary, along with a whole host of very highly respected property professionals

from around the country. But before we go, and while I've got the opportunity, Nicola, on behalf of the large and loyal Property Hub community, we just want to thank you for the very important and enormous role that you and PIPA continues to play in representing the silent majority of unsung hero investors. And let's hope that governments and policymakers are finally getting the message that you were getting through to them last year,

that mum and dad investors are actually the solution hidden in plain sight to our housing woes and that they actually start to embrace them like friends rather than treating them like foes and villains in this complex and dynamic, wonderful world that we call property. So thanks again for your time on the show, Nicola. Oh, thank you for that, Bush, you know, and again, thank you for your support of Pippa and myself professionally and personally, too. Thank you.

And we're very much looking forward to doing more with you this year, perhaps in October in Melbourne again. so thank you again and I'm always we're always so grateful of your support and the wonderful work that you do for our sector as well. Thank you Nicola let's stay in touch and we'll talk again soon. Thanks Bushy. Successful property investment is a game of finance do you have the right team and the right game plan? Realty Talk is brought to you by Know How Property more than mortgage brokers bushy martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs tax risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth

know how has helped over 1900 homeowners and investors secure more than 800 million dollars in property wealth so get set to live more work less and live your legacy want to know how to invest in your freedom visit knowhowproperty.com.au realty talk exclusive to the property hub now next in our continuing special series on the property market forecast for 2024 thanks to bricks and media i can't even say it right thanks to bricks and mortar medias and report, we've got the real pleasure of catching up with Kate Hill, who's an avid investor, an award-winning author, and also the founder and driving force behind national property buyers agency, Advisable. So welcome back to Realty Talk, Kate.

It's fabulous to be here and to talk with you. I always like having a chat. I love the level of detail that you go to in all of your statements, so you're quantifying what you're saying rather than some other hoods that we hear from other players in the industry. So I guess just to set the scene, Kate, given we always have interesting years in property, but from your perspective, how did property form against your expectations last year? And what, if anything, varied and why? Well, I don't even know where to start. I, to be honest with you, and this is going to sound a little arrogant, it's not how I meant it or how I mean it, but it genuinely things performed

pretty much exactly as i expected them to because you've i've been seeing the major supply shortage for a little while um as well as sort of various government uh let's not call them initiatives but um policies and whatnots too that have scared a lot of investors off over the years um so i i feel like i've been screaming about a supply shortage for years the demand was going to be huge as soon as we all got over the fact that covid you know wasn't the end of the universe so it really in spite of interest rate rises uh prices rose in most jurisdictions that i deal with which is across australia um and really the factors that put pride that put pressure on those prices um have been pretty much again as i predicted which is strong local demand hundreds

of thousands of new migrants, billions of infrastructure spending in the right areas, and this undersupply of properties for a number of reasons. So, yeah, it's been a strong year, as I expected. Yeah, great. And, again, as a fellow contrarian who focuses on the fundamentals, not on some of the scare factors that people like to focus on, i'm now interested in in sort of pivoting into your future view given how consistently on the

ball you've been with in the previous report so what's your overall view then on how property's likely to form across the country yeah in the year coming um right well i would say uh it's going to be a fairly similar pattern that we have seen through the ages bushy um you get these panic merchants the media who whip us all into a frenzy of uncertainty and fear just to get those clicks um they have little facts to back up their stories it might just be somebody's press release yeah because they're marketing something or another um and then really when the end of the world doesn't happen because we do have all those growth drivers in place people just start to calm down and they kind of get on with it until the next frenzy you know somebody decides it's time

for us to panic about something else um and really that's that's what we've seen I think that's going to continue um like I said our area of speciality is Australia we're licensed in multiple states we are buying all over the place um and because we customize or we customize each property purchase for every single client so it just depends on you know what portfolio they've got so yes um we've seen that frenzy in in perth in adelaide because they are the most affordable options for investors and they give great yields in this very high interest environment i really don't see a lot of that changing anytime soon um like i said strong demand all these all these new migrants there's still those like you just said those fundamentals in place in a lot of those

good areas and we will continue to have an undersupply of property because they are not building enough and the demand is huge so that is yeah i think the property yeah given that there's a better than even chance that the rates may actually start coming down again in conjunction with what we're seeing on the the mortgage breaking front and that is that a number of lenders now who aren't writing the business they're used to are starting to soften some of their lending yes yes and that combination is likely to boost buying capacity which is going to put further demand pressure on the properties available. So everything's certainly pointing to a pretty strong year ahead.

You mentioned some of the key drivers that we need to be looking at. Are there any others that you see influencing property conditions that we need to be aware of? Really, I think we can drive that down into sort of specifics in terms of area, if you like. some of those sort of important sort of good and bad if we can call it that sectors i think victoria generally is going to be an interesting one to watch um i've actually just done um a youtube video on that if i can send everyone out there um so the as i'm sure a lot of people know

the labour state government they've made conditions for investors and second home owners quite prohibitive a lot of investors have either sold out of the market or really are no longer interested in owning an investment property there yeah this contributes to critical undersupply of housing which the government just does not ever seem to understand i just don't get it um because they're certainly not supplying enough housing for that demand themselves right so and they're penalizing the very people who can add to supply by upping land tax and making it the the whole tenancy legislation is getting tougher and harder compliance conditions on property are getting more honest or expensive but he couldn't make it much harder in victoria really well they probably

could but let's not hope they don't but it's um it and i i'm not i'm not saying that you know that that of course tenants should have rights and they need to live in safe properties and all that stuff is important but um you know i think because of all of that that rents are just going to keep going up uh their policies will always hurt the people that they say that they want to help but at the end of the day it's really just it's politics um rather than actually trying to solve a real problem they need to be seen to be doing something they know who their electorate is it doesn't solve the problem yeah shut me up i'll shut up um and you know but i just think they'll continue to be a real but there continues to be a really good demand for housing in victoria

that hasn't that hasn't changed people are still moving there people still need somewhere to live yeah it's just that demand for investment properties is just not probably going to come from interstate or probably with it from within victoria now either because of that second home you know the investor second home land tax yes exactly yeah so rents are just going to keep going up um because there aren't enough rental properties so and i have property in victoria and i'm seeing it happening firsthand so yeah i think there's also an opportunity there for people who like you know i i realize it's challenging to kind of think and be counter-cyclical but you know don't be don't feel the need to follow a herd look at the opportunities there um so and

sort of on that note as well i would say really watch out for that frenzy that i have witnessed i'm still witnessing in perth um to some extent in adelaide as well but really inferior properties properties being bought by alleged experts and professionals that in my opinion really just won't stand the test of time uh i really do you due diligence over there it's and i know this is controversial but perhaps even a time to think about not buying in perth you know go elsewhere there are real opportunities um if i can tell a quick story there's there was a um the property that i looked at quite recently where the one literally next door sold i think in october for 60 or 70 000 less than they're asking for the next door identical property now now that is a

lot of money in perth it's a lot of money anyway but it you have to think about how that value can be sustained in that area once this all dies down which it will it will certainly when a hot spot hits the hits the headlines then it becomes a self-perpetuating market to some degree and so am i reading this right that you're probably seeing that the uh both wa and to a certain degree adelaide has probably uh hit the the crest of its wave and it's likely to plateau or other from here? Would that be your rate? Adelaide less so,

just because it's just much more of a steady, stable performer. Perth has a real history of being quite volatile. It is, I know not everybody works in mining. I appreciate that. But at the end of the day, it's very dependent and reliant on that mining industry for the economy,

regardless of what everybody says. So when sector is affected, Perth prices do drop. They don't kind of crash often, but they do can drop quite significantly yeah developers start going in there can be an oversupply um your rents drop by 150 200 a week so you've now paid at the top of the peak for a property that could be potentially in an inferior location that sure you're getting 600 a week rent for now but in two years time how are you going to be when that's it's an older property you're

not going to have any depreciation inferior location and your rent drops by 200 a week don't don't put yourself in that situation adelaide is different it's a much more steady as i'm sure you know a much more steady performer it doesn't have that same market volatility it's not the same roller coaster ride and we haven't had the same sudden boom that we have in perth it's always been affordable um and of course the reasons why those markets are and have been so um uh popular is because of everybody's buying capacity going down so everyone's you know been driven by portability absolutely supermarkets right and there's awesome yields higher interest rates of course you know it's it's a it's a recipe for a friend which is what

we've seen so but adelaide is different and continues to have really good steady growth drivers um yeah and i'm not saying perth won't continue to grow over the next little while it's Just please be careful. I'm just urging caution. No, good point. So we've covered the, I guess, the bottom half of Australia. Let's talk about South East Queensland and other parts of the country. What's your thoughts around those?

Love it. Still love it. Really, again, similar to Adelaide, good steady performers around the Sunshine Coast. Again, an opportunity if you do have more money to spend. A very stable market. Hugely desirable. a lot of interstate migration that happens into that area not just you know from from overseas um and um but it is that bit more expensive but it does have good yields you know for a more

expensive market so love the sunny coast um you know that whole Brisbane like you say that southeast in back in into Toowoomba again great diverse economy love those areas that have seen really good growth don't see that lessening anytime soon and once as we said you know those those if interest rates come down a little bit it will make those areas more affordable to those people who are just a little bit restricted by their borrowing capacity at the moment. Good call. Other areas of Queensland or other regional or other markets around the country that are worthy of note? Always like I said so Victoria I'd be looking at your your bigger regional centers your Geelong's Ballarat's Bendigo's please don't discount them

they are they have awesome fundamentals um where else am I yeah very much southeast Queensland and and Sydney Melbourne of course but you know Brisbane itself for those who have the funds to do that but I realize at the moment that's like I say it's prohibited because interest rates are so high and the yields are already low so um and who wants to lose that amount of money you need superior capital growth to make up for the the money it's costing you to hold those properties yeah 100% you know year in year out but it does lead me if I may quickly to another point which is really um it leads into the the increasing popularity of the apartment market so which are which is a lot more affordable by nature right smaller property so I'd say sort of beware of

just assuming you know that the larger properties are going to be more desirable in terms of house big you know a big house large land overall our family sizes are shrinking the government has studied this at length you know they've made projections so that you look for your smaller properties like a smaller three-bedroom property they are you're hedging your bets a lot more than just don't assume it needs to be a four-bedroom on 600 square meters of land with you know all this stuff going on um the three bettors a lot more desirable a lot more in demand because of our um shrinking uh family unit you know lone person households on four i mean it's sad but you know the single biggest increasing demographic yeah it's good call that's a it's

a very good actually yeah in that context yeah i love that uh the uh are there any sort of surprising or wild card elements that are likely to come out of the box over the next 12 months that that may influence property conditions as you say oh look maybe not that it hasn't really already started that i am seeing uh like i said really that apartment market i think that that took people by surprise um because we've got those enormous vacancy rates during covid um the and we have those here in sydney particularly we have those you know construction let's call them issues you know they it's not had great press over the last few years in terms of major structural defects coming to light in a lot of our newer apartment blocks so um but they

continue to be like i say an asset class and a property type in demand so and i think that has taken people by surprise because people haven't really followed how our demographics have shifted during and after covid so um yeah i would say again watch for the smaller property type becoming more and more in demand so that's uh that's a that's a good one i uh the old crusty chestnut of uh negative gearing is starting to get some media exposure given the the uh modification of the uh the tax uh regime in recent times what's your read on what if any impact the best likely have given the greens like to yell this from the rooftops well they do but you know i'm sorry but what clout do they have really it's just uh you know it doesn't it doesn't

i i how long have we got um it's a it's a topic all by itself um i know i think it just it continues to it's news because it affects a lot of people and i think that's what people have to just keep in mind why these things uh keep cropping up in the media um again it's not going to solve the problem them doing anything about it every time they've tried to change it there's been the most enormous backlash uh with good reason um and good luck supplying australia's housing if you do and i think they know that they know that but they seem to be they have to be seen to be considering it um you know for a certain part of the electorate but yeah i do yeah let's hope common sense recognizes that uh private investors are the solution to the housing woes not the not the

problem to actually start re-incentivizing and not not penalizing them as we've seen in recent times yes i i'm looking forward to the day that uh the policymakers and politicians get smart enough to recognize that uh investors are actually their best friends when it comes to solving the housing issue but but maybe i'm over i'll be not missing we live in hope i know we do but uh look as always I feel like we've only just scratched the service cake and there's a lot further that we can talk about and we will get you back on the show to deep dive on some of these areas that you're pretty active in which I think would be you know a great service to people who are really seriously considering getting the the right type of property in the right location for the right

reasons so I do but I guess bringing it all to a head into something like if you're looking for one word that described and captured what property conditions are likely to be like this year what what would that word be for you i'm going to be horribly boring and say stable and really i don't and i don't mean standing still i mean steadily stable but and steadily rising but that was two words so i couldn't use that right i had to come up with one word But, you know, it's I think all good areas, all good areas with those fundamentals. And if you buy the right property type, they will continue to grow. As we've said, if interest rates fall a little bit, I think we'll start to see more listings come on the market,

which gives sellers the confidence to put their properties on the market because they often will then if they're selling, they're often buying again. They don't want to join this frenzy either. um and i think it might even things out a little bit like i've said earlier on in terms of perth and adelaide um because the more expensive those market markets get it obviously brings them more in line with the rest of the country it makes them less affordable so when people have that little bit more borrowing capacity um it makes those and it makes their cash flows a little bit more appealing um they will start to consider all these other areas that are that are great so i think we'll just see kind of consistent steady growth and there's always the potential for a

little bit of a an oomph of course when interest rates drop but i think um it will bring more listings on the market as well yeah i totally agree and i think yeah i mean you and i have been in the game for a long time and i think the pleasing thing for me is that you know i think it's taken us two or three years to shake off the post-pandemic impacts i think we're actually finally getting close to the uh you know the normals are at the moment but i think we are getting back to a point where locations in an ad hoc out of sync basis are going through their own cycles uh independent of others uh which which creates you know plenty of opportunity if you know what you're looking for and and you've got the right team behind you to

to find and negotiate that so i think it reinforces to me that while good opportunities are going to be probably harder to find uh to some degree uh if you've got the right right people doing the research and validating the exercise then you it's still a great opportunity to take advantage of so well look um as always kate i want to thank you for sharing these great insights with us uh and it's it's clear from your forecast in the bmm 2024 property market report that there are still some affordable property locations that can be across the country but as as you've made the point very well buyers will face increasingly steep competition as listings probably remain low even though there might be a few more and yes demand demand is definitely going to remain high

so ignore that the mainstream media sentiment picture and it's always a great time to be investing in property if you know what you're looking for where to and most importantly have the right independent professionals helping you so thanks for all the help on that kate a pleasure been lovely talking to you thanks kate now for those listening in who want to read the full story on kate's thoughts and want to get their hands on a copy of the bmm 2024 property market report that includes forecasts from a whole host of leading property professionals around the country just click on the link in the show notes and if you want to take the conversation further and keep that going, join us on the Property Hub Collective Facebook community again by just

clicking on the link below. So keep watching for more here on the Property Hub. Hi, just before we go back to the show, I want to spend a few seconds and tell you about a book that was sent to me that's now become my go-to reference when I'm looking for inspiration about property investment. You know, sometimes it's not about knowing all the answers. It's certainly more important to know what questions to ask. This book by Rasti is called The Property Wealth Blueprint, and it's one that you don't read just once and then put it away. It stays out as a reference. It's a book that you go back to time and time again, as I do, because it's packed with personal experience and with great examples of how to get property investment right. It's very frank,

it's to the point. And as you can see here, I've needed to bookmark several points. And I can tell you that it's a constant companion on my desk here. The remarkable thing is that it's absolutely free on Rasty's website, getrare.com.au. Get Rare, it's a gateway to a richer life. The website there for you again, getrare.com.au. So get this book, get it for yourself. This is Realty Talk powered by realty.com.au And that brings us to the end of this week's show. Make sure that you don't miss a single episode of Realty Talk or Bushy's Get Invested podcast delivered to you each week and you can do that by subscribing to The Property Hub now

on your favourite podcast player or wherever you are listening to or watching this show. Also join the conversation anytime on Facebook at The Property Hub Collective. Thanks to our supporters and content partners, Realty.com.au, BMT, Tax Depreciation, Know How Property Finance, Get Rare Property, and Apiro Marketing. I'm Kevin Turner, and on behalf of Bushy and the Property Hub team, we look forward to seeing you again next week.