Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton - EP:20 - Pumpkins, Podcasts, And People Getting Mad Online

Episode Date: November 1, 2025

War talk is easy — until you hear from someone who actually lived it. In this episode, we step away from headlines and theories to listen to the people who’ve seen combat up close. Trenches, artillery, fear — these aren’t abstractions. They’re human stories. E.B. Sledge once called artillery “an invention of hell,” and when you hear why, you understand what’s really at stake when leaders talk about war.From there, we dig into today’s culture battles — platforming vs. canceling, open debate vs. gatekeeping. The Heritage Foundation backed Tucker Carlson when others wanted him silenced, and it raises a bigger question: does deplatforming ever actually work? We argue that bringing controversial voices into real conversation builds more trust than trying to erase them.We also talk about Nick Fuentes — his rise to fame, the controversy surrounding him, and how his evolution from an 18-year-old provocateur to a symbol of online extremism says a lot about the internet era itself. His story shows how the mix of outrage, youth, and social media algorithms can turn fringe figures into icons for millions — and why ignoring them doesn’t make the problem go away.We then shift to the wars abroad — especially in Israel and Gaza — and how they’re reopening old divides here at home. The Right is still wrestling with the legacy of Iraq and the failure of regime change. Now, when images of Gaza flood the internet faster than official narratives, labeling critics as bigots doesn’t end the argument — it just deepens the anger.Finally, we turn inward. How did identity politics and social media turn neighbors into rivals? How did equality give way to endless outrage? We talk about how culture shifts, why universal values still matter, and how free speech and fairness can pull us back from the edge.At the heart of this conversation is one idea: listen to the people who’ve lived it. Respect real experience. Trust your audience. Because when we stop talking and start censoring, we don’t fix anything — we just make the world louder and meaner.🎙️ Topics: War & Memory | Free Speech | Israel & Gaza | Cancel Culture | Nick Fuentes | Identity Politics👉 Subscribe for more honest, unfiltered conversations that push past the noise.CHAPTERS:0:00 Halloween 1:50 Scott Horton Academy Launch & Early Bird Pitch3:40 Enemy Series Momentum & Listener Response6:10 Letting Soldiers Speak: Quoting From The Front8:15 Sledge On Artillery: The Mind Under Fire10:50 Heritage Backs Tucker: Nature Is Healing13:30 Why Platforming Beats Gatekeeping18:20 Audience Reality And The Limits Of Deplatforming22:30 Youth, Internet Culture, And Radicalization28:00 Lines Of Communication And De‑Escalation31:40 Israel, Zionism, And Conservative Schisms36:20 2003 Flashback: Frum, Hitchens, And Iraq40:10 Gaza, Scapegoats, And Moral Consistency46:00 Tucker’s Position And Trust With His Audience49:20 Heritage’s Calculus And Base Sentiment53:10 Neocon Fail Sons And Accountability58:40 War Movie Recommendations1:06:20 Identity Politics As Divide And ConquerSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/provoked-with-darryl-cooper-and-scott-horton/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

All humans break. The difference between humans and gods is that gods can break humans. Negotiate now. End this war. You're watching Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horace. Gordon, debunking the propaganda lies of the past, present, and future. This is provoked. All right, you guys. Welcome to the show. Happy Halloween. How you doing, Daryl?

Oh, you know, it's just been a busy day out there. in my crops over yonder. We've got we've got pumpkins galore, more pumpkins and you can shake a stick at, by God. All right, man. I hope you're selling well down there at the farmer's market. Me, I've been hard at work doing geology all day, see? Because I'm a geologist from a small mountain town. Yeah, yeah. I was looking forward to talking today, Mr. Marsh. Yeah, I noticed you let your beard grow out. That's all right. It looks good on you. Yeah, there you go. Thank you very much. Well, happy Halloween. In real life, I host the Scott Horton show.

Hey, I'm back at it, man. The Academy is out. So now I did four interviews today. I'm back at being an interview show. That's what I really am. I'm an interview show. The Scott Horton Show. I got 6,000 of them and I got four more today.

And as you can see, behind me, I got my shingle up. The Scott Horton Academy is open for business. And we came out on, what, Wednesday afternoon. And it's going really great. We've got many, many hundreds of subscribers, most of them lifetime subscribers. Everybody hurry up because we got the early bird special grand opening discounts that expire on tomorrow night, Saturday night. So, hurry up and get your subscription to the Scott Horton Academy and see my great gigantic 25-hour-long course on the Terror Wars as well as a bunch of other great courses by James Bovard on 40 years of investigative journalism,

Ramsey Baroud on the reality of the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the great Bill Bupert as well on what he calls the Trail of Tears, American stalemate and military defeat since 1945. And so it's really good. And I'm already getting some emails back and some tweets back from people saying that they really like it. So there you go, Scott Horton Academy.com for the big new thing, everybody, go and do that in your other tab while you listen to Darrell say things about how successful his huge new podcast

is, episode of enemy. Start bragging and boasting. I want to hear it. Dude, we're about two weeks since the initial release. Okay, I can't do this. I like to pretend to have the dip in. I can't talk like this. Sorry, guys. So we're about like two weeks. You need a straw in your mouth, straw. I know. I went and looked for one, but then like I just, You know, I got deer running around all over the place, and I'm not sure which ones they pissed on, which ones they hadn't. Fair enough. You got to be careful.

You can wash it with soap and water, you know, but no, it's all right. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Your show is doing great. So it's been out like two weeks that episode, and we're up over half a million downloads already. Like, I mean, for an, you know, for, for a history episode, especially one on a pretty difficult topic that's over four hours long. You know, obviously that's a niche audience to begin with.

But that's, that's massive numbers. I mean, you know, my previous episode, the prologue to the World War II series, you know, that came right on the heels of the Tucker interview. Everybody's looking forward to that. It didn't do, I think maybe it did 120, $130,000 in the first two weeks. So, yeah, it's just blowing up. It's been awesome. That's great, man. And how about the response?

Like, you're getting a lot of people telling you what they're getting out of it and that kind of thing. I mean, honestly, it. surprised me how how just overwhelmingly positive the response has been um it was an episode that you know the difficulty that i that i ran up against in this episode is when you're describing something like describing an experience that is just so far beyond my own experience and so far beyond the experience of any of my listeners you know you have to figure out how to convey that and and really there's just no better way to do it than by letting the men and speak for themselves. And so you have books that have been written by them, interviews with these guys. And so I

quoted a lot from this just to, from the guys who were there in the trenches. And, you know, in a normal episode, it would have been, I quoted too much. You know, I would have felt like I quoted too much, but I just didn't know how else to do it, you know. I could have taken all their experiences and dressed them up in literary prose and passed it off as my own. But really like getting it straight from their mouth is second and none. And it's not overkill on the block quotes there. It's fitting for with the subject matter perfectly yeah you chose that very well so well look I'm not surprised but I'm very proud of you and stoked for you that's really great to hear man yeah yeah it's very gratifying and very what the hell I'm I shouldn't presume that everybody knows what we're

talking about it's enemy the Germans war it's world war two from the point of view of the Germans but in this one episode one starting with the experience a very formative experience in the First World War, that a bunch of people who became very important in Germany and the Second World War got their, you know, backstory written, prepared for the coming calamity. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, real quick, this isn't probably going to have anything to do with what we talk about today or anything, but I just, I need a public forum to like, to read this on. This is something that didn't make it into the podcast because I was talking about World War I. And this is from a

World War II soldier experiencing something in World War II, but Jocko reminded me of this quote from the amazing book With the Old Breed by Ead by E.B. Sledge about his experiences in World War II, and he's talking about what it's like to be under an artillery barrage. Okay? He says, to be under a barrage

of prolonged shelling simply magnified all the terrible, physical, and emotional effects of one shell to me. Artillery was an invention of hell. The onrushing whistle and scream of a big steel package of destruction was the pinnacle of violent fury and the embodiment of pent-up evil. It was the essence of violence in man's inhumanity to man. I developed a passionate

hatred for shells. To be killed by a bullet seemed so clean and surgical. But shells would not only rip and tear the body, they tortured one's mind almost beyond the brink of sanity. After each shell, I was wrung out, limp, and exhausted. You know, and like, I could, I could, could take that and paraphrase it my own words and kind of like try to convey it but it would all just be bullshit dude like you just got to read that from a guy who was there you know what i mean yeah it's completely crazy what governments do to people um especially the other guys but even their own too sending them out into that you know paths of glory and all that um all right well let's talk about other things um one thing that is um extremely important

You know what, go ahead and, Chris, you have that screenshot. Put this up. I thought this was hilarious last night out there on the internet. Martyr Made, that's you. Daryl Cooper tweeted, nature is healing. And then it's just two headlines. The head of the Heritage Foundation backs Tucker Carlson and Bill Crystal's backing the commie for the mayor race in New York.

Nature is healing. Things are going back to the way they're supposed to be. So I think the news here, Darrell, right, is that there were rumors going around that Heritage is about to throw Tucker under the bus and disinvite him from a thing. And that caused their leader. What's his name, Kevin Roberts? Roberts. Robertson. Okay. And then he came out this morning with a video saying no such thing on my watch, basically, right? Yeah, it was a very surprising video for a lot of people, including myself. I think, you know, we're just. just so used to conservative leaders running for the hills anytime they face, even a modicum of pressure, especially from very well-organized, well-funded groups of donor types and things, that to see them even put up a slight defense, and I'll give him more credit than that, he put up a strong defense. I think it's a great sign of the times, you know, and he came out today and he had a kind of a follow-up tweet, a very long tweet, talking about all the things

that he disagrees with Nick Fuentes about because that's what the you know the hubbub was about all the things he disagrees with him about and how strongly he disagrees with him and that's all that's all great uh but he maintain you know the position that the way to deal with this and i don't know how anybody could could doubt this by this point you know they've been trying to shut that kid down and people like him for a decade now and he's gigantic um that uh you know i i think his episode with Tucker's done more numbers than like his episode he did with Putin, even more than his episode with me, which is crazy. Okay. But I mean, you know, so they've been trying that and everybody wanted Tucker to come out and do this kind of, you know,

either don't have them on. You know, that's your first mistake. But if you're going to have them on, well, at least has to be like a hostile ambush interview like you did with Ted Cruz or something, right? And these people just don't understand what Tucker's trying to do here. He's trying to he's playing a much longer game you know like people have been okay so he goes in there and he just lets nick have it like what does he accomplish he's accomplished nothing nick goes back to his show and just let's tucker have it the next night and john pod horitz is totally appeased and everything is cool again yeah i mean yeah exactly right yeah everything's fine and um you know but tucker's looking at this and saying look this kid exists his audience exists

if you were to erase that kid from the historical record like Stalin style, you know, Photoshop them out of all the photos and just get rid of them completely. That audience is still going to be there. And there are a lot of people who are susceptible to a very specific type of influence. And if we can talk to a guy, if a guy like Nick Fuentes is willing to come on and have a cordial conversation with Tucker, leave that line of communication open a bit so that they can, you know, just leave the line of communication open. And it gives him one foot in the real world, you know, and you want that audience, which

is, I'm telling you, it is massive and extremely active, very energetic. You know, you want them being influenced by a guy who has one foot in the real world because there are way worse alternatives than Nick Fuentes, you know? And that's, you know, yeah, it's kind of a gamble, you know, you're giving him a little more mainstream credibility by having him on the show. And maybe you're just totally naive. And he's a totally cynical actor, total psychopath who's just. just using you to expand. Maybe, maybe, but I don't think you, you know, really put us in any

worse position than we're already in by just having some hope that, like, you know, that we can do that. You're never going to turn Nick into, you know, he's never going to go grovel on the steps of, you know, the ADL at the feet of Jonathan Greenblatt or something like that. Obviously, he's going to be like a far right firebrand until the day he dies. Like, and he's not going to do anything that makes him feel like he's, he's, you know, just disowning his audience. and all the things he's ever said. He's not going to do anything like that. He's going to be a guy that's always going to piss off John Pod Horace.

Like, that's not an issue. But, you know, again, he's a, he's this, he's a, he's a, he's a very real entity. Dude, when he had his stream, the, his first stream after the Charlie Kirk assassination, he had like 400 something thousand people watching live on freaking rumble. I mean, that's, I, I, I don't know if Trump could get. had 400,000 people watching him live on Rumble on us. I mean, it's just and so this is somebody that has to be

reckoned with, has to be dealt with. And, you know, ostracizing him, trying to pound him down in the box and kick him to the curb has not worked. It does, and it's never going to work. And they try hard too. They did. They, you know, they threw everything they could at him. And, you know, the

interview itself was like very compelling because he goes through that whole process of just, you know, it's like, like, it's a complicated thing, right? Because he's like a 26-year-old now. So you can't call him like a, you know, people still say like, oh, he's just a kid or whatever. He's not a kid. He's a grown man now. He's 26 years old. He's totally responsible for everything that comes out of his mouth, just like I am when I say stupid things, all that kind of stuff. But when you're 18 years old and really like

kind of a naive, politically naive 18-year-old, like three months ago, you were literally listening to Dennis Prager and Mark Levin. And then all of a sudden, you're getting kicked off your bank accounts are getting cancer. They did him like Professor Griff, man. Yeah, yeah. And like for, but for somebody like Professor Griff, I mean, this is a guy who's in the public eye, you know, he's got a literal group called public enemy. I mean, he kind of knows, like, what he's, what he's in. He's in that, like, sort of in that. The head of his own little security force, even. Yeah. So you're, you know, if you're an 18 year old college kid, and you come under that kind of pressure, especially, like, I can tell you after my experience with Tucker last year,

when I was getting denounced by the White House and all the major papers in Europe and the United States and all that, that would have been a hell of a lot harder to go through if I didn't have just all of these people who had my back because it's a different time now than it was then. Nobody had his back. He was just there by himself like with literal people with guns who had just committed a triple murder earlier in the day showing up to his house to kill him and then getting into a shootout with the police on the street outside his house. He's just a young kid who's like got no sort of like broader support structure. It doesn't have like I had Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan and other people

texting me saying, don't worry like this will all pass, blah, blah, blah, all that kind of stuff. You didn't have that. And so it's very easy to get locked into that conflict mode, you know, when that comes at you at such a young age. But, you know, if you can, if you can extend a hand and sort of, again, not get him to repudiate anything that he believes or that he's ever said, it's not about that. It's just about, you know, the overall.

influence that he's able to exert on people and whether or not it's like you know I was very encouraged and I told him so after the Charlie Kirk assassination because he and Charlie were enemies if anything and his first message after that was I mean it was very conciliatory very complimentary to Charlie you know he said look we don't get along we didn't get along we went at each other I said all these things he said all these things all that's fine but like here's why this guy was so talented so significant to the movement and all these of things that right now that's what we're going to talk about that's what we should focus on and the important thing i mean shit dude like last night just think about this you have nick

foentes the arch neo-nazzi evilist you know uh just most biggest monster like he doesn't even have to dress up for Halloween because he's already so scary and he was telling his audience last night that if you're an american citizen and you're america first he doesn't care if you're black white brown like what your background is whatever for him to be telling that to that to that audience, that's significant. And like, you know, people might not, you know, there's, it's not going to satisfy the progressives because he says something like, you know, if you're, he said, if you're born, if you were born here, okay, it's not going to satisfy everybody. But, you know, that, that's a, that's a, you know, it's, it's an important step. You know what I mean? It's very,

it at least stops like sort of contributing to, uh, just throwing more fuel on the floor. And, and that may or may not have anything to do with his conversation with Tucker, but it may, I mean, I think I like the way Tucker handled the thing. I might have said some things differently or whatever, but essentially what Tucker did was take the opportunity to demonstrate the difference between the two because if you listen to the war party, Tucker Carlson is Nick Fuentes.

If you listen to them talk together, then you see that there's pretty significant differences of understanding and opinion about a lot of these things. and while at the same time like he you can't even say he was politely chastising him only like the only one i can think of is like at one point where he's like yeah women aren't that bad you know or something like you know and and but mostly just saying look that's what i think you know what i mean um and not like telling him this is what you need to be like now or whatever and then yeah

the thing about him being 26 i mean i was way ahead of my time for when I was 26 but also I was a stupid idiot and I was still three years away from 29 which is still ain't 30 yet and so like there's still a lot of wiggle room there you know what I mean um I uh I was doing pirate radio when I was 26 but I wasn't I don't think I had like every syllable going into everybody's living room the way this guy does so and and yeah he has said a lot of and I am not a avid follower of the show but I've seen enough to know that that he has said some very, very far to the right things in the past and seems like if he's taking the opportunity to be a bit more reasonable. And you know, maybe it was the assassination

of Charlie Kirk that really got to him too possibly that like, yeah, you know, violence really isn't for me. What path are we really on to? You can't really have a white Christian state in a country where, you know, 60% or so of people are white, but the other 40% are not. And, you know, about what, 70 or 75% of people are Christians, but another quarter or not, and where Catholics are only about a fifth of the population. So pretty hard to have a ethno-religious Reich based out of Chicago on that. You know what I mean? And that was what Tucker was saying too, was, well, geez, you can't have identity politics in a society where you've got 75 different identities that can really coalesce and just fight a war of all against all. It's got to be about freedom for everybody.

Because if it's about groups versus groups, if we buy into the folly of what the left has been trying to do to this society over the last 10, 15 years, especially, then we're going to make it that much worse. We're obligated to not make that same mistake that they have made. Yeah. I mean, I just agree with Tucker Carlson about that. I think that's rational and reasonable and right and I think it must have sounded pretty right to Puentes too but I don't know but yeah and but you're right too though especially that and this is sorry but one very important part of this

is the gatekeeping didn't work like there was a time where William F. Buckley could just say you don't you're you know outside of polite and respectable opinion no one has to listen to you anymore and you know David from wrote that article in the National Review even in 2003 called Unpatriotic Conservatives, where he went after Pat Buchanan and Robert Novak and Scott McConnell and Lou Rockwell and just Romando and said, well, you know, you guys essentially hate America and whatever, anti-Semitic. And so you're written out of the thing. That really worked.

I mean, that really had a real negative effect. Yeah, notably it was over the same issue. Yeah. And you're right, though, that look, they did censor the hell out of him. and effectively my friend jason rink made a movie about nick point has called the most censored man in america and uh which i actually haven't even seen i should have just to support my buddy jason because he's a great filmmaker but um it was very successful for a long time but i think this is to paraphrase what you were saying there is it's too late for that now this guy is you know he's got

a very big podcast i don't know what the subscriber number is but i wouldn't be surprised if he told me it was, you know, more than a million people, uh, or even more than two at this point, subscribe to him. He's, he's absolutely huge. So, and this goes to like all of the, the real woke rightists are the ones who call us woke right, who are the ones screaming racist and cancel, try to cancel everybody all the time, um, where they're just going to have to step up their game, right? If James Lindsay is that much smarter and better than Nick Fuentes at explaining stuff, then he needs to get out there and actually start pressing somebody. Um, and, and, really in spirit as much as i hate that guy i agree with him a lot more than nick fentes who is

very far to the right of me on virtually everything um so uh but i'm not going to sit here and shame the guy because it wouldn't work anyway and you know and telling you to not like him that ain't going to work you know this is an elementary school you know yeah and there's also you know there's just when you when you persecute a group of people whether they deserve it or not or just you know whatever like when you try to margin like when you try to shut something down by marginalizing and persecuting like it's one of those things where you better be willing to go all the way because if you're not then all you're going to do is inflame them and agitate them even more and they're not going to and they're not going to go away like as you're hoping

I mean, and, you know, people ask me, because I, you know, I have a lot of friends of all different belief structures, most of which, many of which would peel the pain off your walls, left, right, whatever. I've got friends who, like, walk down the street and leather jackets wearing ton and cop patches on their, you know, on their jacket. I've got straight up commie friends. And people, you know, on both sides, just different, or my normie friends, last thing, why do you, what do you associate with those people? Why do you talk to them? and I always give them the same answer and it's because somebody has to you know what I mean like this doesn't like

these are still human beings I mean shit dude like I to my eternal shame used to be a libertarian now I'm not people change I'm just messing with you guys I know I'm in enemy territory right now when I say that

no like the point is like people people change over time you know maybe you did believe like I know lots of people who believe some insane stuff when they were in their early 20s and now they're in their early 30s and they got a couple of kids and they don't and maybe they will when they're 40 again but like you know the way the internet locks people into a personality you know it and it's also like a ratchet personality right it like it works like a

ratchet because you can have like a good thing a good thing a good thing and a bad thing the bad thing is the new you're not getting above that now that's locked in and you can do all the good things you want but you're just waiting for the next bad thing and it just always ratchets back down, you know? Like the fact that, like, what I was saying, that Nick said on his, on his show last night, which is, again, like, for his crowd is a pretty, like, revolutionarily open statement that if you're an American citizen, you're American first, and you're on the team, basically is what he said. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Like, what they care about is the worst things he's ever said and all that, and that's who he is, and that's what he's

locked into. And I think, like, if we're ever going to escape that cycle, like, we all just have to sort of agree that we're just not going to participate in that. And, you know, and if somebody wants to come and have a cordial conversation and present their views rationally without hatred and all that, then we'll talk to them. You know, we're not going to hold them to the worst things that they ever said. And, you know, I was thinking about how, you know, like I came up probably the same as you. Like my, the internet I grew up on was like the late 90s, early 2000s message board culture, right? Which was just total and complete chaos. It was just stuff that, you know, I mean, even whatever, like you get

kicked off of Stormfront for posting like that now, right? It was just nightmare stuff. And it was just a culture. And part of it was like we were gatekeeping. Like if you're going to come into our message board or into our little subculture here, we're going to push you. We're going to test you to make sure that you're not a sensitive little bitch. And if you are, you'll have to leave, you know, because, and we're going to force you to leave through all this harassment. But if you get through that, then you're one of the boys, you know? It was just something, it's just the way it existed. And because you had this, like, uh, internet population at the time that tilted very young, tilted very male, tilted toward a certain type of like libertarian-ish-minded, kind of anarchic

male personality type, um, that was all good. And then all of a sudden, like overnight, everybody's grandma was online. And they're looking around at what's been going on in here, like, what the hell is happening? Like, oh my gosh. And so you have this, like, new phenomenon that never really happened before where, like, before, you would never have had a 70-year-old, you know, a board member of the ADL arguing about Israel with a 23-year-old shit poster, you know, online. That just, they never would have even interacted with each other. Like, he would have been talking to the other 23-year-olds. He'd be talking to the 70-year-olds, and they do their own thing and whatever. Now, those people are all in the same little forum.

talking to each other and arguing with each other. And a lot of the older generations, they just do not understand how the younger generations operate. Like, you can say like, you know, Nick says a lot of horribly offensive things. Yeah, cool. You know where else you can hear all that? Go to like a call of duty server or like any gamer discord or something.

I mean, this is like, you know, it's just something that you don't have to endorse it. Like a lot of it's ugly and all that. But like, so is like Louis C.K.'s comedy special, you know, where he's talking about like masturbating a rat and stuff in a sewer like yeah that's disgusting but we say like in this in this forum we're going to give you you you know we just accept that like that's what's going on here and you're trying to you know you're trying to do something in a in a very specific realm that uh you know where where rules that are different from the ones that apply at

the christmas dinner table uh apply right and um and now we just we we just thrown all those people together and they're arguing with each other. A lot of the older generations, they just don't know what they're looking at. They say, like, some of the, some of the ridiculous things that they'll, like, list is like, you know, Nick said this and this and this are, like, if you're under 40 are so obviously just stupid jokes, you know, but you see the reaction. And some of the people are just cynical. They're just looking for things that, like, sound bad and cutting them out of context. A lot of them, though, they don't. They just see that. And they're like, what kind of a person would say such a thing and they just you know there's a lot of incomprehension there and so we have to

try to find ways to make peace in that environment though you know because that's just it's not going to change and so we we just have to try yeah well and look if people wanted for him to mellow out and lead his flock toward more reasonable positions then it would be in their interest to leave him exit you know what i mean don't just like hound him all the way into a corner till he's got no choice but to just try as hard as he can a b a dolf right like there's another side to him we're seeing it right now you're talking about what he was saying last night he's like finding a few lower rungs on that ladder to climb down and um and then so this is something that me and dave smith are talking about on his show last night about um i didn't make this comparison but i'm sure

you'll remember when Richard Spencer was a big thing about, what, 10 years ago or whatever that was in the kind of second half of Obama with the rise of the alt-right and all that. And all the left-wing media supported the guy. Mother Jones went and interviewed him, and they talked about him, like, oh, he's all handsome and all these things. And you could see what they were doing. It's the same thing in the Podesta emails of the Pied Piper strategy to support the most radical parts of the right so that they can say,

see what radical right-winger's they are. And if they can make Richard Spencer the poster boy for the Trump movement, then see, we told you that Trump is a Nazi, and that kind of thing. Well, now, so as we talked about, and this came up in the conversation with Tucker, as we talked about, he was very censored.

And Tucker was saying, geez, I don't know, I think that they like you. You could tell they had had a previous conversation about this at dinner before, and it kind of came up again. And Fuentes was right to say, like, Hey, man, you kind of can't have it both ways. You say that, you know, if I go after somebody, then I'm a wrecker. And then, but if I cozy up to somebody, then I'm like getting my stink

on them, my cooties on them and trying to sabotage them or whatever. When the reality is, I think, that overall the ADL and the overall censorship regime, they're very terrified of this kid. And they did back when he was still a kid. They did everything they could. As you said, to really censor him and marginalize him, kick him off all the apps, even had them. on a no-fly list and all these things. They really did try hard. They did not do the Richard Spencer thing. We're like, oh, let's make him the poster boy for all this stuff.

They really, I think, were more afraid of what he might represent. He had, I think, a bigger movement than Spencer ever did. Or I don't know if they really thought these things through, like, too carefully. But on the other hand, you could see why Tucker would also be suspicious that, like, even if he's not a plant of any kind, that it makes sense for, especially, liberal media to promote him as the face of the new American right. And that you see, and especially on the case of Israel, where the Zionists who represent the center right and the party leadership at the top of the power and control and the money, they would love for people to believe

that all good conservatives and right-wingers and patriots are Zionists. Until you get so far to the right, that they're really flirting with fascism or worse. And at that point, when they avowedly hate Jews, that's when they also hate Israel. And to reinforce that message for all the Normies, it seems like he's a pretty good poster boy for that. If he's so, you know, determined to denounce Israel for what they're doing, well, at the same time, denouncing Jews in a way, just like in the caricature of what they would try to say about you and what they try to say about Tucker, is that these guys just hate Jews is the

only reason they're criticizing Israel. And in a way, he's jumping to the front of y'all's parade, maybe mine, and saying, yeah, that's right. We do hate Jews or something. You know what I mean? When that's not really what's going on here. So maybe he's kind of climbing down from that, but I'm just saying it, and maybe he's not. But I could see why that would also be useful to the ADL, right, just as much as suppressing him to go ahead and put him on Mount Rushmore and go, yeah, see, this is what Republicans like so much. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, very interesting and revealing that, you know, I mentioned a second ago and you're talking that the last time this kind of like big rift took place in the Republican Party was in 2003, 2004. When David Frum wrote that article, I was just reading today, somebody on Twitter reminded me of it. And I went back and reread the article that Christopher Hitchens wrote Vanity Fair in 2004 called Rumble on the Right, where he kind of goes over the whole civil war that was happening in the Republican Party and the conservative movement at the time. And, you know, he was a very much in favor of regime change and all that, but he was fair enough to the anti-war voices

like Pat Buchanan in it for the most part. But I find it very interesting that the same issue is what ignited that civil war both times. And really, it was not just, you know, that Israel's bad or something. It's why is this foreign country exerting so much influence over our country in a way that is self-evidently extremely destructive. You know, like where back then, obviously, this was 2004 when Hitchens wrote that article and Iraq was in the process of falling apart and going to hell in a handbasket. But now, you know, this is the thing, right? We talked about how the Israeli goal, stated goal, of eliminating Hamas is really just another way of saying

eliminate every able-bodied male in Gaza who might want to avenge his little sister. Because as long as you have an occupation ongoing, as long as you have this siege ongoing, there's going to be resistance. There's going to be a portion of that resistance that wants to fight about it. You can call it Hamas.

You can call it the PLO today. Whatever. It's going to be there as long as this situation persists. And, you know, like the, the oh yeah and so so you know when you have a situation come up like like like we've had in gaza for the last couple years where people are watching this this you know um this horror show like andrew claven the other day who doesn't like me i like him just fine he doesn't like me though um andrew claven was talking about anti-semitism and all this because everything was going on

and he said he called he pissed off a lot of uh conservative christians by calling the Holocaust, the crucifixion on IMAX. And now I don't actually, like, I dissented. I put a little tweet dissenting from all the other people who were outraged by that. I don't entirely disagree with what he's saying. Like, you know, and I, we don't have to get into all that now. What's he saying? Well, look, well, I know, get a little Christian on you here for a second.

So just give me some room to work. Like, you know, Jesus Christ didn't come to earth to live among us and be crucified. just to sort of perform some ontological magic spell that redeemed mankind and the world by this sort of, you know, blood magic or something. He came to teach us, you know, and his number one lesson gave a lot of sermons. He had his parables and all that kind of stuff. His number one lesson was on the cross, you know, and you have this guy, and you know this by, you know, when you get into the book of Acts, which comes right after the gospels, the very first martyr in the entire Christian tradition, St. Stephen, they didn't kill him for saying that Jesus was the Messiah.

They didn't kill him for saying, you know, he's the son of God, any of those things. But what they killed him for was, and he said he was innocent. And you persecuted and murdered him, even though he was innocent. And so it was his refusal to go along with this mob that had been kicked up over this issue that they turned on him as well. And that's what the first, you know, that's what the first martyr came from. And all the subsequent martyrs, You know, people often think of them as if they were dying for Jesus Christ or something. That's not the spirit of that. The spirit is that they were dying with him, that if you see something like that forming up,

if there is like an unjust persecution, then you die with that person before you participate in it, if that's what it takes. Like that's the lesson of the martyrs, right? And so in that way, like the crucifixion was an archetype that is repeated at different points in history. And you can say in lesser form and in forms that don't have the same ontological consequences or whatever, but that it is an archetype for things that happen all the time. And the Holocaust is an example of that. You have this group of people who ended up being scapegoated and mass murdered over just some very real tensions.

Same as in Jerusalem, you know, back during the days of Jesus. There was like a revolutionary ferment in the air. A couple decades later, they'd rise up against rum. and get Jerusalem completely destroyed. There were zealots killing Jewish collaborators and like very, very tense, like neighbor against neighbor, faction against faction, kind of tension. And then they found this guy that they could focus all that on and say, he's the cause of all this.

He's the cause of all this. And if we get rid of him, then we can all get along again. We can actually hit the reset button. And that's the kind of thing that happens again and again. That's what a scapegoat is. And so the Jews were a scapegoat. in a situation in Germany and the rest of, you know, central and Eastern Europe where, you know, there was a lot of fear of communism, which was very real. There was a lot of resentment over how

the First World War ended for very good reason. All these kind of things that were going on, like, you know, that we're turning neighbor against neighbor and just creating all this tension between people, all those people were able to come together by saying, you know what, neighbor, you're not my problem. We can both agree, they're the problem. Let's get them. And then we can all get along again. So he's right in that sense, in my opinion. The Holocaust is the crucifixion blown up in scale for everybody to see. The problem, or a problem at least, is that a lot of Andrew's friends, maybe Andrew himself, I don't want to put that on him because I'm not sure, but I know a lot of his friends, they use that crucifixion on IMAX he's talking about to defend and rationalize

and justify the one that's going on right now in Gaza. And he wouldn't recognize that. You know, he wouldn't see it that way but that's that's the case and um as long as you have something like that going on something like we see in gaza and as long as the defenses that are being offered for it are just so deceptive such just just dripping with lies or or venom and hypocrisy where they barely try to convince you at all like they really even since october 7th have not tried to convince you at all that this is something that has to happen because of X, it's just, they went straight too. You're an anti-Semite. You're a Hamas supporter. You're a terrorist support. It's just boom. And not just like people on Twitter or whatever, but like the

leading lights of the neoconservative movement and like the, you know, the people who are the supposed intellectuals, you know, that's what they went with immediately. And so the idea that you're going to have this horror show going on that everybody is watching every day, kids being pulled out of rubble and everything else and that you're just going to shut that down by calling people names and it'll go, wait, no, you're going to have a lot of people who are going to get more and more and more upset about that, you know, and you can either talk to those people and try to find some common ground and try to get them to dial back the rhetoric to like maybe let's, or you can attack them and they'll attack you back and we can go down that route.

And that's what people want to do, you know, a lot of people. And it's the wrong way. yeah um well and the thing is too like they're just tugging on superman's cape trying to pick on tucker carlson he's the most important man on the american right other than the president himself right now is a huge audience who all trust him because he's sincere and they know that and so what are they going to do with a guy like that in every interview that has anything to do with foreign policy whatsoever he reiterates over and over and over again he's not talking about the Jews and he doesn't hate Jews. He likes Jews and Jews like him and he's been to Israel and he likes Israel's great. But stop making me pay for you to commit sins against helpless people, though.

I don't like that. But otherwise, hey, man, hell yeah. And he says that every day. And so anyone who's not, you know, part of this agenda to somehow twist his words, whatever, is just a regular Tucker Carlson fan who already knows him in the way that you come to know TV news anchors who you watch every night or whatever, as people have with this guy for years, then they've heard him say that a bunch of times, and they never heard him say the kind of things that Nick Fuentes says about Jews. And they sat there and watched him say, yeah, Nick Fuentes, but that's not really right what you say about the Jews, though, man. And he said it six different ways throughout the interview and whatever. So I think, like, how are you going to lie on that guy and make it stick? It's not going

to. So, and then, which brings us back to one of the more important parts of this that I really want to focus on or I want YouTube is that the guy from the Heritage Foundation came out and had Tucker Carlson's back. I saw John Pod Horowitz. That's Norman Podhoritz's son and Midge Dexter, I think, is his mom, right? I said, I get those confused, the different neocon moms. I'm sorry. All the Neocombo, everybody. They have such classic, like, old-timey names. I think Bill Crystal's mom. Gertrude Himmelfar. true to him on for her be out one of those um anyway and he says when my mama was on the board

of the heritage foundation which this is what paul gophered is always telling us the story how the neocons took over all the foundations in the 80s and made them all horrible uh lacude fronts um anyway so and this goes back you know again your original tweet the head of heritage is defending carlson and not explicitly not throwing him under the buzz. Well, at the same time, Crystal's vote in Mandami. So that's the second part's hilarious, and he does belong with his commie buddy. But what does it mean that the head of heritage decided

that he's backing Tucker Carlson on this over what's the other side of this argument, Benjamin Netanyahu and his Hasbarra Brigade, right? It's that, but it's also, you know, it is... I think it's, well, look, I think there's maybe two aspects of it. One is I'm going to just assume that Heritage has their finger on the pulse a little bit, and they understand kind of where the base is at. But I think also, you know, it was easier to support Tucker a bit just because all you have to do is be consistent about all the things you've been saying for the last several years,

about cancel culture, about free speech, all this kind of stuff. And so you can come out, it's very easy to say what he's, I don't want to say it's easy. He's under a lot of fire, and I'm sure the Heritage Foundation is getting a bunch of donors pulled over it and everything like that. So I don't want to like downplay the fact that it was a courageous act to do that. But in terms of like the rhetoric of it and like arriving at that argument and defending it, you know, all you have to do is say we're staying consistent. You know, we support free speech and free discourse and free debate of ideas, you know, the war of ideas. And that's the way to handle these kind of things. and by the way, we virulently disagree with everything that Foynti said, which is basically

heritage's position. That shouldn't really be controversial at all. And like the fact that it is, to the people who that's not good enough for, like it really shows a certain contempt for the public and for their own public, like the base of the own, of the movement that they're ostensibly thinking that they're leaders in, it shows a contempt for them, that if you expose them to this at all, well, it's just they're going to get swept away by it. They don't. have any defense against, you know, this kind of rhetoric. And they're just, that's how it's going to go. And, you know, of course, there's like this paranoia built in where on that particular issue, you've seen this. Like, people who, I'm sure if you tested them out have high IQs

weren't talking about this particular issue would be very rational human beings who can work through an argument and actually like have a conversation who are like literally raving that now they understand how the 1930s happened. And it's like, you know, like if you, when you jump to that every time, like sometimes it's just 1968 and the Ocean Hill Brownsville strike, you know, in Brooklyn. And it's not good. It's bad. There's Samantha, all that, but it's not 1933.

Sometimes it's not quite that. Sometimes it's bad and still not quite that. But like for some people, I mean, you see that I think it's like a slogan you see, you know, never again is always now. And it's just this thing, like you have to, it has to be ever present in people's minds. And like, as I was talking to Dave about when I did this podcast last week, like, you know, the people who say, you know, who respond to that by saying, well, you know, they have their reasons for harboring that kind of paranoia. No doubt. Most paranoid people do. You know, it starts out with something that is very real, very often a traumatic event or

something like that. But at a certain point, that thing, that that mentality that you have that was designed to protect you, it just becomes a prison that you get trapped in. And it just foments conflict with the people around you. And so all of the people who are Zionists who, you know, I'll give a lot of them credit and say that, you know, when they call people anti-Semitic and they go off on those rants when people criticize Israel, that they're not just cynically using that. Some of them are. But I think a lot of them are not. They just, just the two things are completely attached in their mind, you know. And so when you have that kind of like an overwhelming, like if you go talk to like a black nationalist or somebody else who's like a,

you know, a radical, you know, minority sort of like movement, movement person, a black power type or whatever, you know, they would tell you that Whitey wants to take our rights away and he wants to exploit us economically or whatever. But they don't jump straight to like, if you don't agree with me on this issue. You want me, my family, and my entire people killed, which is like, that's what you mean when you say it's 1933 all over again, and this is how it happened. It's like, dude, you dial it back a little bit, you know? And like, this is the last thing I'll say. I know I've been ranting here, but like, you mentioned John Puthoritz. I always try to be like even charitable with people who don't like me. You know, I said earlier, Andrew Claven, like, I like, I like

Andrew Clayman. I think he's a good dude. I know his son a little bit or I did, and he's a nice guy too. He hates me, but he doesn't know me. He just knows what he's heard about me, and he's responding to that. And so that's fine. I try to be charitable. John Pod Horitz, man, that guy is a piece of shit. Yeah. Like, I, you know, and all you have to do, like, this is a guy who, I can't remember the woman's name.

I think she was some TV, she's like a TV chef, one of those, like, TV chefs, you know. I can't remember her name. And I don't know if she has a husband or a father or a brother, but if she does, all of them should be ashamed. she said something mildly critical of Israel on Twitter. I mean, like, it was like the Miss Rachel lady or whatever kind of thing. Like maybe so many babies like ought not be killed, you know, something extremely mild. And he says something, he says you would say something like that, you fucking piece of shit. And I'm like, what kind of a human, what kind of a man speaks to a woman like that in public and just feels like no shame.

we all know what kind of man that is like we wouldn't let any woman we care about be around that is a that's a bad dude and yet how is that like how is somebody who behaves in that way like in a very personal way he's talking he's not talking you know he's not ranting on his show about like abstract topics or whatever he's talking to a actual person saying that to an actual person in public how is that not worse than anything Fuentes has ever said. How is it that like every, you know, everybody that ever interviews John Pod Horitz doesn't get a flood of emails. Like, how could you possibly platform this guy? It's way worse because it's weird. At a point, though, nobody interviews John Podhorre. It's nobody cares about him at all. But yeah,

I mean, he's a guy who said, look, the only way to win the Iraq war is to kill every Sunni finity age male. And after I pointed that out, he blocked me on Twitter back 15 years ago or something like that, that he called for genocide of all Iraqi Sunnis. It's the only way to win the war, Darrell, for Iran. Because John Pod Horitz had really thought this through very carefully, see? Dude, the intellectual decline between the generations of the neocons is just, I mean, I don't agree with, like, most of the stuff that a guy like Norm Pod Horitz or Irving Crystal were saying, there's no question. Those were very, very intelligent dudes. Like, I wouldn't want to be across the debate stage from one of them.

Yeah, Bill and John, not so much. Not so much, dude. These neocon fail sons are like just an absolute embarrassment. And I feel like they take, like, that they have to know that they're disappointments to their fathers and that they're just such a step down from what came before that, like, it creates this resentment that just makes him like, you know, say things like Pot Horowitz said. I just talked about like his father never would have said something like that to a woman in public.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I hate the Kagan's, but they're classier than that. I mean, maybe not Robert's wife. They're more violent, though, in practice. Listen, we've got some questions, and we're going to have to call this at the top of the hour, because I got things to do, man's Halloween, and I've got to go. But I got to go be Randy Marsh for a night.

But I have a lot of things on my list to talk about, and most of them, are two lengthy of discussions to get into, such as Russian nuclear weapons, war with Venezuela, or the entire government shutdown and the warfare, welfare, state, and all those things. So, Chris is right. I should sell you guys some coffee. And then we should just take some questions

from the super chats. I know we got some, and we got about enough time to do a little bit of that. So this here coffee, the Scott Horton coffee, they said, if you keep drinking that much coffee, you're going to turn into a cup of coffee. And then it finally happened.

Now I'm coffee. I'm Scott Horton Coffee, and it's part Ethiopian and part Sumatra blend. It's really dang good. I drink it all morning long and then a little bit more in the afternoon. And I think you really like it. It's the best-selling coffee at Moondos Artisan Coffies. They hate Starbucks because Starbucks supports the war party and the Zinus movement. So there are Moondos artisan coffees.

And all you got to do is just you type in Scott Horton.org slash coffee, which is really easy. And it'll take you right there. And then also, uh, tonight's episode of Provoked is brought to you by the Scott Horton Academy of foreign policy and freedom at Scott Horton Academy.com. It's just out brand new and it's really great. And if you go and sign up now, you'll get the early bird discount, the early signer upper grand opening discount, which expires on midnight Saturday night. So you got to hurry up and go over to the Scott Horton Academy, Scott Horton Academy.com.

It's my extensive course. If you watch my interview on Lex Friedman, and you thought, I wish this was three times longer than I have that for you at Scott Hortonacademy.com. It's that. And then a bunch of other great experts, as I said, and I know everyone will really love it. We got a great response to far and really stoked about that. And then I'll spare it any other particular ads other than you got to check out subscribe dot martymade.com.

And that's how you get the great. Martyr Made podcast and study up on your World War one history here. Enemy, the Germans war, just starting out with the, there's a prologue there kind of preface and then episode one that everybody can hear. So, okay, this guy says Woodrow Wilson doesn't stand a chance. That's right, because that's C.J. Kilmer, the great C.J. Kilmer, his course that will be publishing soon at the Academy is how Woodrow Wilson is the worst person who ever lived, for he is the father of Hitler and Lenin and Stalin and Mao, and for that matter, George W. Bush. And so, yeah, that's going to be really great.

And this guy says, invite T.K. History on Randian World War II historian. That's interesting. You know, I would expect him to have a very conventional take, but I don't really know. The objectivists are not exactly libertarians, you know. but that sounds interesting this is our uh randy or farmer darrell you have a few recommendations for interesting or high quality war movies you know i'm just going to say the empire strikes back so you go ahead and tell them your opinion about some of my some of my favorite classics for sure uh das boot is one if you want just an old classic uh submarine german submarine movie

Great movie. The Battle of Alger's outstanding movie about the Algerian War with the French. All the revolutionaries back in the 60s all around the world, the real ones and the LARPers, they all love that movie. But it is a pretty fascinating movie. My personal favorite is Bridge Over the River Kwai. That's my go-to war movie. It's just an awesome movie. So as far as like more modern ones, I mean,

you know i don't think there's like i felt fury was pretty good the tank movie with brad pitt i guess but like um they're there's sort of a formula you know now where like stephen spielberg made saving private ryan and everything's just kind of like a replay a saving private ryan at this point hamburger hill's a good movie that was that was pretty good i was going to say that one um but yeah i i really like that does that count or that's too trippy That's not a war movie. Jacob's Ladder. Oh, I haven't seen that for a really long time.

But I remember being frightened by it because I was way too young to be watching it. And I didn't have crazy parents. I just remember Danny Aiello is like his chiropractor and goes into the ward and carries him out of there, cursing out all the nurses and stuff. Well, I could blab, but forget that. Next question here. Michael Clark, Zionist. says, Tucker is wrong about them having war plans for Iraq right after 9-11. Me, source, Zionist, David Wormser.

Do they have any shame? So this is very interesting to me, in fact, because Mr. Dave Smith sent me a link to an interview of David Wormser by a sycophant type who looked familiar to me somehow. I couldn't quite place it. Anyway, he interviewed Womzer for like three hours or something. And I watched about an hour of it before I finally quit. I really should try to find the time to go back. I've just been so busy. It was really interesting, man, because, of course, he's denying everything.

And he's saying that Carlson's all wrong. And there are a few, you know, flaws or nitpicks in the 9-11 thing, especially when you take, in his 9-11 documentary, if you take some of the things he said out of context, then you can say he's totally wrong about the thing he's saying when, in fact, he's not totally wrong. But, you know, there are a couple nitpicks there where they found some room to criticize. but then they're taking the opportunity to basically try to undo the whole story of the neoconservative role

in lying us into war with Iraq for Israel and the weapons of mass destruction lies in the rest when in fact he ends up confirming a lot of it. You know, like for example, Tucker never says that Zelikow is a neocon, but Wormser kind of takes that as his meaning and then says Zellikow wasn't a neocon. Zellik was with Robert Blackwell and Robert Zolik and Connolly's Rice. and they were, you know, closer with Powell and Armitage, as opposed to all us neocons who were in competition with them and all this. And then he even talks about his role in the policy counterterrorism evaluation group and says, we came up with a bunch of intel about terrorism.

Only about 50 pages of it was about Iraq, but then, of course, or maybe even says five. But whatever, those were the pages claiming that Mohammed Atop met with the Iraqi intelligence in Prague and the Czech Republic and received a flask of anthrax, a flask of anthrax for them. So, which is lies that they told the President of the United States that Douglas Feith briefed George W. Bush on those lies in the Oval Office. That came from Wormser and Maloof and their little, you know, side project there. So in denying it all, he confirms a lot of the story and adds a lot of context to it. I really do need to take my time and go back and watch that whole thing. It was interesting to see that. Worms are still out there and, you know,

it's 20 years later, but, you know, he's ready to squabble about all this stuff. To answer the viewer's actual question, though, no, they do not have any shame. Oh, yes. No, no shame there. The shame part. I just totally disregarded that part of it. I didn't even, that part of the question didn't even register to me because it was like, is that even the serious part of this? The part of my brain that would have considered that serious, just dismissed it without even thinking about it. Just started telling David Worms or stories. I don't like the identity politics, but Nick's point is that The minorities won't stop playing the identity politics just because Tucker wants to.

There's some truth to that. But here's my thing about that. I think that the identity politics were an invention of big business and the Democratic Party in the last 15 years. And what happened was, is the national government, in concert with the banks, destroyed the economy. When they did that, a bunch of people started moving to the Tea Party right and the Occupy left. And they said, in order to destroy populist. economic opposition to government, you know, big business bailouts and bank bailouts and

corporate welfare and all that. We're going to turn people against their neighbor based on skin color and who's gayer and all this crap. White privilege this and trans children that and get everybody fighting. It's just straight out of a George Carlin bit from 1990. He goes, you notice, all they talk about is all the issues that divide us while they, the rich, keep going to the bank. And so whether it's race, sex, class, jobs, regional differences of whatever kind, military service or not, or whatever it is to get us to hate each other.

And so, and I even remember reading, people might not even believe this is possible, right? But I read an article or two at salon.com by bona fide liberals saying we should not be doing this. identity politics is wrong dude we need to be building broad coalitions of people who lean left and we need to be you know focused on the true american democratic way is finding a way to compromise with the other side and move forward and if we had something like john basil utley wrote about this if we had something like a parliamentary system in america it would be war right we need it's we're we're held together by the fact that we need these 51% winner take all coalitions to build up to take power at least to keep the other guys out and that means people have to

compromise but it means that you know we in other words we need that from that what 2011 last ditch effort liberal view we got to hang on to that 1990s idea or that even w bush era idea of everybody's the same no matter your religion no matter what skin color you are we all have equal rights and what we're really all about and the consensus we're trying to build is for freedom. That's what we're all doing here together and calling it a huge mistake to get people to identify identity politics in this way because they could see that it was a divide and conquer game. And they thought that by not dividing, by not letting people be divided and conquered, that their side would be better off in the end rather than worse.

And one of their big arguments was, you know, white people are still 60, 65 percent of the population of this country. And you tell them that's the only thing important about them and that it makes them evil and wrong and okay to expropriate their property and all of these things. Well, what do you think is going to happen? We're going to get a Nick Fuentes out of this, the salon.com writer warned back in 2010 or whatever it was, right? Like, this is a, we are playing with nuclear fire. Again, this is the liberal left point of view of why not to engage and indulge in that. Even remember when Bernie Sanders ran and the black lady ran up in took his microphone. And so, yeah, but what are you going to do for black people? He's like,

what are you talking about? I'm talking about what I'm going to do for everybody, which includes black people. And she's like, no, I don't want to hear that. I want to hear, what are you going to do to white people for me? Or like, you know what I mean? In other words, the whole thing of sabotage. Here's Bernie Sanders is trying to do left-wing economic populism and a bomb goes off, which is skin color, which means nothing, right? Which is just essentially distraction. And which is why, if you look at all the ESG and DEI stuff, this all came from the top. This all came from Wall Street. You know, well, the same thing happened.

I proved all that, that all this came from Black Rock and Vanguard and the very elites and let these people fight about skin pigmentation instead of messing with us. Yeah, the same thing happened in the late 1960s, you know, like people look back now and they say, like, because this history has sort of been lost to people for the most part. and they say, why was the CIA funding Gloria Steinem, the feminist, you know, firebrand? And why were they providing the startup capital for Ms. Magazine, the feminist magazine back then as she ran? And we have an idea, we don't have to, it's not a big mystery. You know, it was the last time there was like some real, for better or for worse, like revolutionary ferment for serious change in this country. And then all of a sudden, you had the intelligence agencies, big business, everything going in and funding all these little movements

that all got them squabbling at each other. And, you know, yeah, granted, they were, it's not as if they were inventing issues that didn't exist. They were inflaming ones that, you know, were nascent. But it absolutely came from that. And for the exact same reason, maybe from, you know, a different group they were worried about coming together. But, you know, there's also, there's another element to this where, like,

a lot of people who don't live in a place like Southern California or just the Southwest in general or a place where there's, like, very heavy immigrant populations, where they have personal experience with the people, don't always understand this. I can tell you this from personal experience, people I grew up with, people I just knew as an adult personally, and just from knowing a lot of educators in L.A. and Orange County and hearing them talk about these things, is how the parents, like the immigrants themselves, very often, like, I'm not talking about the MS-13 guy with the face tattoo who like sneaks

across the border. But like the people who come up here to work in a hotel cleaning up, you know, and the husband is picking strawberries in Oxnard. Like you have all these families that are just like the immigrants just want to keep their heads down and they just want to make a little bit of money and give their kid like a safer life than they would have had back home. Just people that you'd be, you know, if you didn't, whatever, if you weren't like an immigration firebrand and didn't know their status and if they spoke your language, you'd be happy to have a neighbor they're just solid enough people like on their own terms sure and then they send their kids to american schools and they have their kids watch american media and their kids grow up

waving that Mexican flag on Hollywood Boulevard saying F the United States and you know we're being oppressed and we've been oppressed for hundreds of years by this country and like it's it that it's American culture but it's actually usually doing this to them it's not a bunch of Mexican nationalists like coming across the border waving their flags and all all that, it's very often they're kids and they're kids who are indoctrinated in American culture. And so if we can take back the culture, you know, if we can exert some level of influence over the educational system and what's actually worth putting on media, I don't mean like media controls necessarily or anything like that, but just what people would want to put on media

because what's cool has changed, you know, and what's sort of like, it's just, and we're doing it, I mean, look, we've moved a lot in this direction. If you would have told people back during like the beginning of the Obama administration, when like John McCain is getting some like no-name country singer to sing at the at the Republican National Convention and freaking Obama's got Jay-Z, he's got Angelina Joe Lee and Brett, just the whole nine yards. If you would have told them that in 10 years, 15 years, that's actually going to be the lame party, that people are going to be embarrassed to be Democrats, you know, unless they're just crazy like firebrand types. Because that's how it is. Like they got to the point where people

look at it and it's just freaking lame, you know, and Trump somehow managed to make the Republican party so that, like, you got NFL players doing the Trump dance and you got rappers like endorsing Trump and stuff like that. And so that can be changed. A culture can be changed. And if you can do that, then you can bring a lot of those people back on side. I mean, really can't show, man. You know, I think race relations, whatever. You know, I just live in Austin. And Austin is the shire, man. It's a very nice town. You know, We don't have real problems here, but I remember the 1990s and the W. Bush era race relations being damn near solved, right?

Like, of course not exactly, but so much progress had been made in people really not caring who's white and black very much, really, you know? And the Chappelle show was kind of the epitome of that during that era. Everybody love that so much together, you know, at the same time kind of thing. maybe the last ditch heyday for something good out of TV, right, in that era. And then, you know, a friend of mine had pointed this out a long time ago that it was just a bad idea to have the first black president be a Democrat. You know, if the first black president been a Republican, Ben Carson, or what's his name

from Godfather's Pizza, Herman Kane, or whoever, then, you know, and because they're conservative guys, it's not like, you know, they're left-wing guys. then that would have been another, like, step in the right direction. But by having the first black president be a Democrat, they said that that was going to like heal racial relations more by having the first black president, whatever. But it's like, nah, because the people who already lean at least a little bit racist are already in the Republican Party. And they're going to hate this guy because he's Bill Clinton anyway.

So they're going to hate everything about him. And then they're going to identify him with his race. And so you had a huge step back on. the right, I think, on race. And then plus you had, again, this massively, and I think it was a conspiracy topped down by Wall Street and the universities and so forth, to voice all this DEI shit on, and not just the DEI, but all the woke, you know, revolutionary stuff, the, all of the white privilege stuff and the DEI set asides and the trans rights and all of that stuff, I think, was deliberately promoted on that other side just to sew that.

that dissension and make it all that much worse just to cause that sabotage. And this is what I was trying to say before I trailed off was that if that cuck liberal at salon.com can say, hey, we shouldn't be doing this and knew better then, then they could fix that. We could just give Chappelle his show back something and then, like if even Nick Fuentes says,

hey, as long as you're from here and you're America first, then I'm cool with that. If even he can say that, then, and look, It's just like if we're talking about China or Iran, like, what are you saying? This world ain't big enough for the both of us? Like, we're going to have to figure this out, aren't we? This is the same thing here with each other in this country. So, that's my take on it, you know?

I don't think I have to kick anybody out of any movements for that other than maybe some of the the wokenest cooks in the LP, but that's a different show, man. Happy Halloween, Daryl. Thank you. Do you see what Chris put in the chat? No, what do you say? Get that out of here? The award-winning segment tonight, Darrell, hand-gestering on how to masturbate a rat.

If you're just tuning in, that did happen. This is some high-class stuff here. I regret nothing. I was making a very intellectual point with that gesture, Chris. That's right. That's right, everyone. Don't forget to like and subscribe and share this very classy show with your friends. And sign up for the Academy, Scott Horton Academy.com.

And we'll see you next time. This has been Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton. Be sure to like and subscribe to help us beat the propaganda algorithm. Go follow at Provoked underscore show on XN YouTube. And tune in next time for more Provoked. Thank you.