Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton - EP:3 Epstein Files Reveal No Clients: Truth or Coverup?

Episode Date: July 12, 2025

The Justice Department's startling claim that Jeffrey Epstein had no clients beyond himself and Ghislaine Maxwell raises disturbing questions about power, accountability, and institutional corruption. Scott Horton and Daryl Cooper meticulously unpack the web of connections surrounding Epstein's operation, revealing a pattern that suggests something far more sinister than a lone predator's crimes. From Alex Acosta's bombshell admission that he was told Epstein "belonged to intelligence," to the bizarre coincidence that he was hired by Donald Barr (former OSS operative and father of William Barr) at the Dalton School, the evidence points toward organized protection at the highest levels. The hosts explore how Epstein's improbable career trajectory – from college dropout to trusted financial advisor for billionaires – makes sense only when viewed through the lens of intelligence operations and money laundering.The conversation takes a particularly dark turn when examining Epstein's connections to Robert Maxwell (known intelligence asset and father of Ghislaine), and the inexplicable decision by billionaire Les Wexner to grant Epstein complete power of attorney over his business empire. These relationships, coupled with the systematic suppression of reporting on Epstein's crimes – including intimidation tactics against journalists – suggest a coordinated effort to protect not just Epstein, but an entire network of powerful interests. What emerges is a compelling case that Epstein operated with institutional backing, possibly as part of larger intelligence operations involving blackmail and influence. The hosts argue that understanding this case is crucial not just for justice for victims, but as a window into how power actually works in our society – a truth that remains relevant long after the headlines fade. Website: ⁠⁠Provoked.show⁠ Video Version: ⁠⁠Provoked YouTube⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thank you. Whoa, that intro is intense, man. Welcome to the show, guys. I'm Scott Horton. He is Darrell Cooper, and this is our show that we do together, Provote. Our third episode, very happy to have y'all here. And we got some things to talk about in the news. I guess we might as well just start with the big one,

which is that it turns out that the Just Department can't find any reason to believe that Jeffrey Epstein had any clients. It was just him and his girlfriend who were doing all the raping of all of those kids. And I don't know if you saw Ken Clippenstein had a thing that came out last night where he had found in that justice report. He read it carefully and found where they said there were thousands of victims. And we already knew, I guess, from previous reporting that for at least one example, his mansion in New York was all wired up for video and sound. And they had showed pictures of evidence that had been taken, including a bunch of CD-ROMs, presumably, you know, this kind of thing,

and whatever video stuff, which we all thought must be right. Bill Clinton and all this friend's compromise on there. Ehud Barak and good people like that. And then, but they said, nope. Actually, that was all just personal stuff that he had downloaded or whatever. There's no blackmail material there at all against any powerful people. And they're like, come on, man. It's Dan Bongino and Cash Patel.

And they said that there's nothing to it. And we can trust them. So what do you make of all that, Carol? I mean, who's happier to hear all of that than Galane Maxwell? Because she's innocent, right? I mean, she got convicted of human trafficking to nobody, so apparently she, I'm looking forward to her appeal being approved. I wonder if it just got filed again today, you know? Yeah, there's so many, I mean, people have been talking about the Epstein story for a while now.

And there's, it's really hard to kind of suss, well, a few things I would say. One is that there were different phases of Epstein's career, you know, where he was kind of involved in doing different things. And, you know, if they want, like, the assertion that he was engaged in blackmailing powerful people, like in 2018 and 2017, if they want to say they don't have any evidence for that, I'm fine with that. Like, I actually don't, I'm not really super attached to the, to the idea that he was running a blackmail off all the way up and to the point he was, you know, arrested on that tarmac. I think the more interesting thing is, you know, for our domestic political and media consumption, what everybody wants to know is, you know, who was he blackmailing, who was on the island, who was he with? Because they want to know, like, if you're a Republican, you want to hear that Bill Clinton was out there. If you're, you know, a Democrat, you want to hear that Trump was out

there and all that kind of thing. All that is interesting for sure from like a, and it matters for sure. But to me, the more interesting questions are broader in scope, you know. Who's this guy working for? What was he doing? Why was he allowed to operate more or less in the open, you know, for a couple decades, really, after everybody knew what he was, you know? These are the really interesting questions to me because they go down to the heart of the corruption of the system itself. You know, you ask yourself, for example, like, I don't know about you, Scott. You know, I know you're not a fighty guy, but if you were invited onto some dude's airplane and you walked on, you sat down, made yourself comfortable and they gave you a drink, and before you took off six underage

girls who were not related to your host, come out in their underwear and start offering you a massage, you're probably going to get violent with that guy or at least run off the plane and dial 911 immediately. And in fact, I would do that. You would do that. Every single person I know and probably you know would do that. When people hear about stuff like Epstein, I think the biggest barrier for them to get past is they just like, they're like, no, come on. Nobody, yeah, okay, there's like a Ted Bundy and a Jeffrey Dahmer out there. There's like real, real hardcore deviant But, you know, the idea that, like, this could be possible of people, like, I don't know anybody who would react that way, who would tolerate something like this. And so it just can't be. And that's the biggest obstacle I find you have to get over with people. And, you know, I mean, but you got to think about the fact that, like, if I were to request a meeting with Bill Clinton, I don't care if I did have a billion dollars. His assistant would go, sir, no, you got to, he was on Tucker Carlson last year. And you can't, you can't be seen. with him. Like, it's just not a good idea of it. You know, like, they would do that. Bill Gates' assistant would do that. They would never let him meet with me or probably even you or something like that, you know. And yet, you have this guy who's been convicted for, you know, he didn't get convicted in 07 for pedophilia. Specifically, it was just for prostitution, even though she was underage. So I don't know what, like, soliciting an underage prostitute even means, really. Like, that's just rape as far as I'm concerned. So, but that's what he got, you know, the sweetheart deal.

got. But the point is, everybody knew about it. You know, this was not something that was a very, a very niche understanding, especially in like elite circles. Everybody knew what Jeffrey Epstein had done, why he'd gone to jail, to the point where, you know, his, his private airplane was nicknamed the Lolita Express, you know, after the Nabokov novel Lolita, about a pedophile, takes this girl and takes her around the country for two and a half years. And like, he didn't give it that name. He didn't say I hereby christen my new aircraft Lodita Express other people gave it that name because everybody knew what was going on here that was what John McCain's wife said everybody knew yeah and so then you ask you know okay then how is like how are you getting on an airplane with this guy how is it

that he's just moving freely in the highest circles out there and you know I think that the answer that I come to again and again and I think this is just backed up by you know I can just go through I mean, you can go through a lot for this. It's just that, you know, for you and me to walk onto an airplane and have a bunch of underage girls come out in their underwear offering massages, that's a shocking thing. We don't see something like that every day, and it's going to jar us and awaken that sort of violent moral impulse, you know. But if you move in circles where, yeah, you know, morality is always kind of pushing the boundaries and, you know, you're always kind of, I mean, think about like when Madison Cawthorne was in Congress briefly, you know.

He, was he from Georgia or North Carolina or something? But he went there and, you know, he's, he after like a year, he came out and said he was like being invited to parties where he was being offered cocaine and being solicited for sex by men and women. And man, they ran him out of town on a rail like within a month or two after that, you know. And when you see thing, when you hear things like that, and I've heard stories like that privately from other people about like the kind of things that go on in D.C., you know, you start to understand that, you know, when you get up to the highest levels, you're very often dealing with people who have disordered personalities that want to push the boundaries of, of kind of the bourgeois morality that the rest of us have to

abide by, you know, in order to get by in the world. And so maybe it's just not that weird, you know, to Bill Clinton. I mean, you know, he raked for Juanita Broderick. Like, how weird is it that, like, this, yeah, he tells me she's 19. She looks 16, but whatever. Like, these aren't people who are operating along the same moral lines that the rest of us are, you know. And that's, first of all, like, just a very important part of it. In my Epstein series, I talked about, I went through in great detail as difficult and

disgusting as it was, and talked about the art collection that Tony Podesta, the brother of John Podesta, who ran the biggest Democrat lobbying firm in D.C. for many, many years, the art collection he had. And I mean, it's straight up pedophilic, child murder, child violence, art that he is hanging. This is the thing that really got me about it. It's like, this was not some secret thing that the National Inquirer found out about him. I went back and bought just because I was worried that it was going to disappear forever one day. I bought a hard copy of the, I think it's 19, no, it was early 2000s, Architectural Digest magazine where they profiled his house and they went through, took all these pictures and everything. And the art is on

the wall in his house for the architectural digest profile. Right. So he's proud of this. He's putting this out there. When he has a bunch of people over for a party, Scott, if you, if you get invite, if I invite you and your wife over for a party at my house and you come over and there's pictures of dead kids, little girls in their underwear tied up on the walls, big paintings, I mean, I have a feeling like our relationship is not going to be the same after that, you know? Yeah. I mean, I've seen some like metalhead imagery that is like pretty dark, but not children chain of the wall. Like I know one of those, I think it's like a little boy in his underwear and it's like a white tile. He's chained to the wall. I get the idea that that's a real kid.

That really happened. And somebody sat there and painted him. You know what I mean? That's not just the imagination of some creep that that is a real victim. In all of those particular paintings, those are all part of a series that that artist did. And she was very specific about she was exploring the trauma of pedophilia and things like that. Like she's given interviews about it and then the um the final the final piece of that series it's in that tiled room which one of my friends before i had seen this final piece he used to work in a slaughterhouse and he saw all those paintings and he said oh that's a slaughterhouse he said i i worked i know what a slaughterhouse looks like that's what that is because some people thought maybe it was like a look like a swimming pool

there's like conspiracy theories that it looks like the vanderbilt swimming pool or something but then the last uh the last painting in the series is in one of those tiled rooms And it's a bunch of butchers sitting around with bloody aprons and their knives. And one of them has the King George's Cross on one of his, on his towel and things like that. So she's very explicit. I mean, this is a slaughterhouse with a bunch of children tied up in their underwear and compromised positions. I mean, that's – and these are hanging on the wall of the most powerful lobbyist in Washington in the place where he would invite, again, architectural digest to come take pictures.

Like, it's all good, you know, the place where he would invite people over for Suarez. is like, it's all good. And you just have to wonder, like, what is, what is the difference here between, you know, these circles and the ones that most of us are used to that something like that could just be considered normal for people, to the point there'd be no shame, in fact, pride about it. And it's very different. And it goes a long way to explaining how somebody like Jeffrey Epstein could, could, you know, travel in those circles openly for as long as he did. I mean, so that's the first interesting question. The second one is obviously all of the intelligence agency connections that are, you know, one of the things people always bring up

in this conversation and ones like it is I'll say that all the evidence, it's all circumstantial evidence. And it's, yeah, it is. It's all circumstantial evidence, basically. Because when you're dealing with organized crime, when you're dealing with intelligence agencies, when you're dealing with organizations that secrecy is the name of the game for them, you know, it's not as if they're going to leave the notes of their criminal conspiracy, like written down in detail for you to find in their safe or something, you put together, but you can put together a case on circumstantial evidence when it mounts up enough, because you get to the point where, yeah, okay, maybe I haven't, like, been able to A to B, all the way to Z, like, prove the connection of all this

that it mounts to this. But there's a, there's a mountain of it now, a big enough mountain of circumstantial evidence that the onus is now on you to explain to me how. this means anything other than, you know, in this case, that Epstein was being run by intelligence agencies, the U.S., probably, and Israel is all right. Well, let me hold you to that then. So, so, I mean, obviously the biggest piece of evidence that we have is a statement of the federal prosecutor that gave him that sweetheart deal you referred to earlier. So what was it that he said and how meaningful. It was Alex Acosta. He was the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Florida back in 2007 when Epstein got convicted the first time. And later on,

he was being interviewed, doing background and vetting for Labor Secretary under Trump in the first administration. And in his interview with them, they asked him about, you know, this might be something that comes up in the news. Like, what exactly happened? They're like, why did he get such a great deal like this. And he said that he was told by his bosses that Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone. Now, you have to think, this is a U.S. attorney in the Southern District of Florida. There's basically like two people who could tell him that. That's the deputy attorney general and the attorney general himself. Like, those are the only two people that could tell a U.S. attorney in that position that you have to ignore the 36 underage

witnesses who were all accusing this guy of sexual assault. You have to take this open and shut case and you have to just shove it aside and give him a deal that nobody's ever even heard of before. He got 13 months in jail when they had 36 underage witnesses accusing him of sexual assault, independently corroborating details of the crime scenes, like all these, and these girls didn't know each other. And he got 13 months in jail where he was allowed to leave the jail for most of the five days a week he would have to come back and sleep in the jail

he had a wing of the jail that was completely dedicated only to him and he was able to hire his own private security guards to like watch over him while he was in there okay but maybe that's just because he's a rich guy right sure again it's um you well maybe not right here's what you gotta be like being super rich, it did not help Bill Cosby. There's a lot of people. I think if you were to go take some

random hedge fund manager, you know, because everybody's a billionaire these days, some random tech guy or hedge fund manager, not George Soros, forget about all the connections, right? Some guy you've never heard of, but he's got $8 billion or something like that. And, you know, he gets busted for like 30 witnesses underage all set. His money is not going to save him. His ass is going down, you know. That is just not enough. It's not enough because, I mean, you have to think about it. Like for Alex Acosta as a U.S. attorney down there, this is a career-making case. Are you kidding me? Billionaire playboy running a vast underage sex ring and like all this. You're going to be the attorney general one day behind this. You know what I mean? So when he says belongs to intelligence,

that just means the agency, right? Or does that mean Israel? Well, it has to mean the U.S. first of all, right? I mean, in the sense that they were aware of this. and benefiting from his action in some way that, you know, that the U.S. authorities felt that it was in their interest, at least, to let this guy continue to operate. I mean, so in other words, he may have been working for Israeli intelligence, but he was certainly doing so with the full knowledge of the United States, you know, government. They're just, otherwise, you know, they would have.

Well, yeah. And there's a question of how he got so rich in the first place to even be a rich kind of. I mean, I saw a thing. Yeah. It was a Netflix documentary, I think, where they said, I forgot if they showed people or they just talked about how, like, the universe of financial managers for billionaires in the world is very small. And they all know each other. And they all know whose wealth they're managing. And nobody knows this guy.

This guy's not one of us. And it's just, you're either in that club or you're not. Yeah. The only reason the sort of official or semi-official, popular understanding version of that story has hung around at all is because people don't know any of what you're talking about right now. People just are not familiar with that world. Right. So when you hear a story, for example, and this is like been documented, interviewed by somebody who knew Epstein back when he was, you know, younger guy. I think he was when he was 30 years old. So he's like a young guy, just kind of getting started out, really. Had just left Bear Stearns not that long ago. and now he's out. He left Bear Stearns, by the way, ignominiously after getting run out for regulatory violations. He's running his own outfit now. And he says that he only accepts accounts of a billion dollars or more. If you have less than a billion dollars to invest with him, don't even show up. And so there's this, there's this interview with the guy who knew him back during these days and says that he thought he would do Epstein a solid. And so he brought him

this account. There was a guy. It's $600 million to invest that he wanted to invest with Epstein. And so he brings them to him and Epstein blows them off. It's too small. I don't, I don't deal with that. And it's like you can hear that. And if you don't have any connection to that world, maybe, maybe not. Look, if you got $600 million to invest, Goldman Sachs will have their CEO meet you at the front door and take you up his private elevator to a conference room where the company's vice presidents will give you a presentation. as to why you should choose them over Citibank or something like that. I mean, they will roll out the golden carpet for you if you got $600 million to invest.

And this was back in the 80s, by the way. That's like $1.5.2 billion today, right? So you show up to the biggest, most powerful investment bank in the world. You don't audition for them to manage your money. They audition to manage your money, you know, the different banks. That's just how this kind of thing works. The idea you've got this 30-year-old guy who just can blow off a 600 million dollar, you know, adjusted for inflation, one and a half billion dollar investment into his hedge fund is, it's just absurd on its face. And the only, the only answer that I can think of and I've thought a lot about is just the obvious one. This guy was not running a hedge fund, you know, like you got to think too, like when you go to a hedge fund, when you go or when you go to

an investment bank like Goldman Sachs, one of the thing that conference room full of vice presidents is going to tell you is they're going to show you like the team of analysts and traders and stuff that are going to be fully devoted to just your account, resource. researchers, mathematicians, all this kind of thing that are going to just be devoted to you. Epstein's supposedly like a dude on his e-trade account, like running this out of his apartment or something. It's just totally ridiculous, you know. I mean, as far as what you said, like about how nobody's ever done business with this guy, nobody's ever heard of a big deal he's made or anything like that. And you say, okay, well, you know, maybe it was on the down low, maybe just was discreet

about things. Again, when you're talking about this kind of money, you know, you don't, you don't log on to e-trade and like add a few shares of Microsoft or something, you get together a bunch of brokers who can pull together enough available shares and structure the purchases in a way that it doesn't just eat up all the liquidity, you know, on a given day. And like, it's a very complicated operation. And you don't just buy shares. You take a position in the company. You know, this is like, these are the kind of moves that people at this level make. These are institutional things that happen. And the idea that nobody has ever even heard of anybody who's heard of anybody who's done a deal with a guy who supposedly running a, you know, running a fund so big

that he can just blow off $600 million investors is just ridiculous on its face. And that's not how he made his money. And I think at this point, everybody who's looked even reasonably seriously into this, at least accepts that part that we don't know, well, we don't know exactly where his money came from. That leads us kind of to the next, to the next part, which is very, this is a very strange one, because like I have met some billionaires. I don't, I can't claim to be friends or buddies with any of them. And they certainly don't talk about their money with me. But I would just assume that if you're a guy who runs giant corporations, you know, I'm talking about his, his sort of benefactor slash mentor slash who knows, Leslie Weckon,

who ran limited brands, which was Abercrombie and Fitch and limited and all those. It was the biggest clothing retailer in the country, I think, back in the 90s and early 2000s. And so multi, multi-billionaire. And he brings this young guy, Jeffrey Epstein, in. And he gives him full power of attorney over his entire business operation. Jeffrey Epstein could take out loans in his name. He could sign his tax returns. He could start businesses in his name.

He could, full power of attorney, okay, this was not limited at all. He could do anything he wanted with his entire business empire. He was in charge. And Les Wexner would have some of his executives who, they're just executives who are working for his company and trying to, you know, maximize shareholder value. And they're showing up and they're like, who is this guy? Like, what is going on? Like, sir, we're not so sure this is a great, fired him.

People that he had known for years and years and years who thought they were good friends with them. They've been interviewed. They said, as soon as I brought up, you know, some of the concerns about this, Epstein guy, he cut me off. He wouldn't answer my calls. After 20 years of talking to this guy regularly being friends with him, he just cut me off. And so you say, well, you know, what would possible explanation would there be for somebody like Leslie Waxter to give a guy like Jeffrey Epstein that much control over his business operations? When you have to, like, you know,

you have to look at Jeffrey Epstein's history of it, right? His first job after he dropped out of college, he didn't finish college, his first job was to get high. as a high school math teacher at this really prestigious private school, the Dalton School in New York City. This is one of the most prestigious private high schools in the country. If they wanted to hire a math teacher, presumably they could have any high school math teacher in the country that they wanted would come to New York to work at this place. But they hire Jeffrey Epstein, who was a college dropout with no teaching experience, and they put him in there. And he only lasts a few years. There's complaints from young girls, surprise, surprise that he's, that he's been inappropriate

with them. And after a few years, he leaves that job. I'm not sure exactly the circumstances, whether we was fired or just left. But, you know, one of the things that, one of the facts about this whole case that just, you know, it makes you think like that we really are living in a simulation or something. Like, because it's just too insane and crazy to, like, be real. is the guy, the headmaster of the Dalton school, who hired Jeffrey Epstein. This was back in the 1970s.

The headmaster of that school, who hired this guy who had dropped out of college with no teaching experience, who would go on to become one of the most famous heads of a pedophile ring in the history of the country. His name was Donald Barr. Donald Barr just happens to have been the father of Bill Barr, the attorney general, who arrested Jeffrey Epstein. in 2018 and then oversaw the prison where he committed suicide, quote unquote. And so that's an interesting coincidence. Small world. Yeah, well, it's also an interesting coincidence that Donald Barr also used to work for the OSS, which is the precursor to the CIA, of course. Don't know about

his connections to the CIA like in later years, but he worked for the OSS back in the day. And he had a side gig. You know, he liked to run a private high school. That was one thing he did, but he also liked he was an author. He was an artist. He liked to write. So his thing was he liked to write pulpy science fiction novels, right? And he has one called Space Relations. And this is all true, man, like people who haven't heard it like yet. And I know a lot of people have like, you can look this up on Wikipedia. It's just totally mainstream. This is not like, you know, reading between any lines or anything. He wrote a book called Space Relations, which was about a guy who was taken as a slave to this planet where all of the elites on this planet

breed children so that they can sexually abuse them. There are scenes in there like in one of the opening scenes when the guy's being taken away on the spaceship to this place to be traded where a crew, you know, the members of the crew, they raped this 15-year-old girl in front of them. And then the story as it goes is the woman, all of us. that he gets sold off to as a sex slave takes a liking to him and he kind of becomes her partner and he starts participating in all this and like he and her are abusing all the girls and everything and so like this is this is the guy who hired geoffrey epstein who just happens to have worked for

the precursor to the CIA earlier in his career who just happens to be the father of the attorney general who hired who arrested and oversaw the death of geoffrey epstein in 2018 you know and bill Barr, of course, I mean, he, you know, he's a CIA guy himself, obviously, you know, he ran the agency back in the day and back in the, what was it, during the, I can't remember if it was church or pike, but during the, during the hearings in the 1970s, when the CIA was really under the gun, Bill Barr's first job out of college, he was an intern for the CIA, which sounds like, okay, whatever, but he was a legal intern whose job was to be the liaison between central intelligence agency and Congress during these hearings. So, I mean, this is a very important gig that he had here at a

very critical time in the agency's history. So this is a guy who, especially given his father's pedigree of the OSS, like was embedded like all through, you know, this period of time. And while Jeffrey Epstein would have been like at the height of his operations in the 80s and 90s, you know, he would have been very aware of all this. And so Jeffrey Epstein, he does, he does the math teacher thing at Dalton for a few years. There's a lot of of rich and powerful people who have their kids here. And one of them is Ace Greenberg, who ran Bear Stearns, the investment bank that went under in March 08 for a while. And so he talks his way into an investment banking job at Bear Stearns. He leaves the high school and he goes and does this.

And he works as a trader for like a very short period of time, but very quickly, they move them into what they said was their special products division. And according to, I can't remember if it was Greenberg or Jimmy Kane. It was also the CEO there. It was Jimmy Kane. He said that what Epstein did and he gave this sort of elaborate sort of, you know, Wall Street speak version of it. He said he helped wealthy people find ways to hide their money. So basically he was a money launderer for for Bear Stearns. And that's what he spent his time learning to do and getting really good at in a few years that he was with Bear Stearns. And eventually he gets a little too bold, I guess, in his in his strategies and decisions and he comes under the eye of Sauron regulators. And so they let him go. But you can

kind of, you know, one way you can tell that he, you know, he wasn't doing anything that the bank didn't ask him to do is that he stayed close with Jimmy Kane and Ace Greenberg way later in life. Like he, you know, there was no hard feelings between him and Bears. He himself continued to bank at Bear Stearns for decades after this. And so, you know, he was let go. They had to let him go because of, you know, the attention, but he wasn't doing anything that they weren't telling him to do. You know what, Derek, it seems like you describing how this guy keeps getting guys late and then blackmailing them, but then staying friends with them for years afterwards, right? Like, that's three. Keep going. Yeah. So, um, after he gets run out of Bear Stearns, like this is a crazy part. I mean, when you see

somebody like this who, like, there are people out there who are charming. There are people out there who are intelligent. There are people out there who have all these great qualities, but there's still a certain, especially, you know, there's still a certain point where you have to pay your dues and put in a little bit of time in order to move up to certain things, right? And like, he gets run out of Bear Stearns. He's only 28 years old. His entire resume is that he worked for a few years as a high school teacher. He dropped out of college, worked for a few years as a high school teacher, left under a cloud of female students saying he was inappropriate with them, goes to Bear Stearns for a few years, as a junior trader and then a special products guy, and then

gets run out of there for regulatory violations. Now, he's 28 years old, and the next time he pops up and the news or the stories that we have of him, the interviews with people who knew him and all that, you know, different people, if you take all the sources, the next time he pops up, he's 28 years old. This is the entirety of his resume, what I just listed up to this point. And he's on a private plane with the British arms dealer, Douglas Lease, to go to a meeting at the Pentagon. This is like 1981. And, you know, Douglas Lease is one of those guys who you're not going to find a lot about them, you know, online. And his, you know, people, like his daughter denies that he was a weapons broker and stuff. But, you know, one of the things that you will find about him is in the minutes to the British

parliamentary meetings back in, I want to say it was like 85, maybe 84, when the British had a really big arms deal with Saudi Arabia, the Al-Iamama deal. And I think at the time, and maybe still now, it was the biggest British arms deal in their history. We're selling to Saudi Arabia. And Lisa's name comes up in the discussions and debates on the floor of the parliament there. And they talk about them as one of the guys who's helping arrange and facilitate this. And so, you know, you have this guy who's a sort of off the books kind of unofficial weapons broker and 28 year old Epstein, failed math teacher, failed, you know, investment banker, 28 year old guy with no college degree is on a private plane with him to the Pentagon in 1981 to have a meeting about who

knows what. I think personally, you know, given his history up to that point, it's pretty clear what his role there was. I mean, because that's a question you're asking. He's like, what do they want with him. What do they want with this guy? And when you're talking about intelligence agencies, just like when you're talking about organized crime, you're always talking about money laundering. It is, you know, people think of money laundering is like this sort of like boring side thing, you know, that organized crime and stuff has to do because just this kind of afterthought, you get some nerdy accountant to go do the stuff. And money laundering is absolutely central to organize crime and their cousins, you know, in the intelligence world. Like,

I mean, well, a perfect example. Like, you get up a few years later and you get to the Iran-Contra deal, right? Where Congress had passed a law saying that we cannot provide weapons or support to the Nicaragran Contros. CIA and the Bush, the Reagan administration still wants to do it. I should probably still say the Bush administration in the 80s, but I won't. You know, they still want to do it. The president's office. Yeah.

Yeah. when you have somebody like George H.W., like, you know, Tucker likes to say how we haven't had a real president since 1963, you know, and that's generally true. Where it's not true is like with George H.W. Like, dude who is the head of the CIA. He's like, he is the system that controls the president. And so he can get in there and probably carry more weight than others. But, you know, you have to figure out how to sell weapons to Iran, which is under an important. Bargo, you can't, you're, it's illegal to sell weapons to Iran. You have to figure out how to do that and then take the proceeds from that and get it over to the people in Central America that you want to fund. And that's also illegal. And so you can't have, you know, like one of the deals, one of the, one of the tranches of money that passed between U.S. Israel was a conduit for the weapon sales to Iran. It was an $800 million sale. And so if you have like a, a pallet of $100 bills that is four feet high and completely stacked with $100 bills,

that's about $50 million. And so 16 full four foot high pallets of $100 bills is one tranche of like one payment for, you know, that passed in the weapons deal. If you have that kind of money, like you can't just write the CIA a check and, you know, have them take it down to Bank of America to the CIA checking account and deposit. I mean, these are things that, you know, these are things that are, these are things that are handled by large institutions, you know, this kind of money. And so if you're going to do something like this, you can't have a money trail because everything you're doing is illegal from front to

back, you've got to have guys who know how to build shell corporations and send stuff offshore and do all these convoluted things that, you know, happen on a small scale all the time with drug trafficking and things. But in a very, very large scale when you're talking about intelligence operations and large scale organized crime, you have to have guys who are extremely skilled at this because as we've seen the money is how these guys always get brought down you know somebody gets sloppy with how they how they hide the money and how they hide where it came from and where it went and that's what brings it down everybody from al capone to uh you know to john goddy and so um you know like so geoffrey epstein was a money longer that's what he started

out as that's what he that's what he did at bear sterns in an official capacity he he he got fired from Bear Stearns, you know, for flying a little too close to the sun with his tactics, but, you know, stayed friends with everybody, kept his accounts there and everything. And then right after he's done there, he's on this plane with a weapons broker to the Pentagon. And he's there because he's a money laundering. He's a skilled money laundering, you know. And if you're a good money launderer, man, it's one of those things that it's a ticket into worlds that you would otherwise never be qualified to walk around in, you know. And Epstein kind of figured out, I think, later that there's another, and I don't know if this was after the money laundering thing kind of ran out, or if it just kind of happened naturally because of his own proclivities that he ended up sharing with the people he was coming into contact with.

But the other one is, you know, there's certain things that it doesn't matter how rich you are. If you don't know a guy, then you can't just pick up the phone and call Domino's and have them, for example, send you an underage girl. Like you can't just, it doesn't matter how rich you are. You could have a hundred billion dollars. You can't tell your assistant, go get me a 14 year old girl and have him show up. He has to know somebody who would have, be able to arrange something like that. This is why like back in the 60s when Charles Manson was running around and you hear that he's like living with one of the beach boys and all these rock stars are having them around all the time. And he's like this grubby five foot two like ex-convict weirdo druggy with, well, what did he have that nobody else had? He could show up to your party with a stable of 25 young, often underage girls who were ready to do anything he said. And in the 1960s, in the 1960s when he was operating, I mean, that was like a golden ticket into any place he wanted to go

in Hollywood or wherever else he was. And so I think Epstein kind of figured that out too. It makes you somebody who's very valuable because you can get something that nobody else can get and provide, you know, provide things to people who are used to being able to pick up the phone and call Domino's and have anything they want show up at their door, but they can't get this unless they have a guy like you. And so, you know, I think that as you go through, you know, the Epstein's career throughout the 80s, because he only pops up here and there, you know,

I mean, this was not a world famous man back then, but there are people who know him who have been who have been interviewed over the years. And many of them, by the way, before any of the sexual stuff ever came out, you know, he actually got, he was in a, he started a fund with a guy named Stephen Hoffenberg, who was interviewed back in 2003 by Vicky Ward for, I believe it was for Vanity Fair or Rolling Stone. But she was writing a profile of Epstein. She talked to Hoffenberg, who was in prison for. actions that he took while he was running this company with Epstein. And it was because they were doing

this together and they should have both gone to prison for it. But Epstein flipped on him and Hoffenberg went off to prison and Epstein stayed out. And so you get little things like that where you get bits and pieces of like his biography in the 80s and early 90s. And what you see again is him popping up again and again with people. You know, he called himself a financial bounty hunter. So basically, you know, you have rich people that need to hide a certain amount of money. They're going to get taxed $100 million on it. You know, if it stays out in the open, he's a bounty hunter. He goes and finds a way to save $70 million of that for them.

And then he gets a, you know, he gets a chunk of that. And like, that's the kind of thing that he would do. And all of these, you know, skills are, you know, related to money laundering, forensic accounting, all the stuff that he would do. and um my my impression and this could be well actually no okay you know let me back up again because there's so much detail of this story it's really easy to get confused i should have all my notes here in front of me but um it was through uh douglas lees that he was introduced in the early 80s to annan kashogi who's a turkish-born saudi guy who's like you know he's sort of the

he's like the he's like the like the like the loony tunes kind of over the top racist caricature of what like an Arab a decadent Arab prince is like you know just giant yacht which was bought by Donald Trump later on by the way and cousin is the guy that was murdered by the Saudi king uncle yeah he was his uncle and that was Jamal Khashoggi the guy who was murdered in the Turkish embassy by the Saudis yeah

And so he was his uncle. And so this is a family that's very close to power. And Adnan Khashoggi was, he did a lot of things. One of the things he did was, you know, he was a weapons broker. He was one of the main people, actually, who was facilitating the weapons transfers to Iran during the Iran-Contra deal. And it was, again, because you have to have people who are sort of like off the books, but very well-connected to do anything like this. You can't call Raytheon and be like, hey, send $800 million. is worth of weapons to Iran, but don't tell anybody.

You know, that's just not how it works. You have to have people cutouts, you know. And so that's one of the things that Anan Khashoggi would do. And he was deeply involved in a ring contra. And it was, I think it was 83, 83, I believe, when Epstein was introduced as part of all this to Robert Maxwell. And Robert Maxwell, you know, he's such an interesting figure, man. And he's like, you know, everybody who looks into the Epstein story and just even, even knows who Maxwell is.

Everybody hates him. And he should hate him. He was a nasty guy and everything. But he's still like somebody that you look at. You're like, damn, man. Can you say what you want about this movie? Yeah, yeah. It was great.

And he was a guy who, you know, if you just take the amorality away, he was an impressive dude, man. He was a hustler. So he was a Jewish guy from Czechoslovakia. And when it looks like the war's about to kick off and the Germans are about to invade, he flees the country. He's like 19, I think, 20 years old, flees the country and goes to France, gets there in May 1940, which is not the best time to flee to France for anybody who knows their history. It was not long before the Germans were overrunning that country as well. And so he flees from there, manages to escape again and gets to England.

He's changed his name, like, three or four times, like, by this point, he's in England now. He starts working with the Czech government and exile there, but gets really frustrated with them, signs up for the British Army. And they, once, you know, Normandy happens and everything, he goes over there, and he's a, he's a soldier, man. Like, I mean, he saw a lot of combat. He was, you know, physically courageous. He actually got awarded the second highest award in the British Army, which be the distinguished service cross or the navy cross like in the u.s military very high war they don't just hand those

things out for storming a machine gun nest so it's a very physically courageous kind of just a balzy guy you know who um who doesn't wait around for things to happen to him like he goes and makes things happen you know and uh he he would later on he got he got fingered in an investigation never never charged or convicted or anything but he was named in a probe um for murdering unarmed German civilians in the aftermath and late part of the war there. But once we occupy Berlin and occupied Germany, Maxwell's sort of, you know, he turned out to be a lot more useful than just as a guy, a grunt holding a gun. You know, he spoke several languages.

He had already made a lot of connections. He was, again, very balzy guy. And so he went to work for British intelligence. And they would have him there doing things like interrogating. captured Vermathe and SS officers and Third Reich officials, you know, which is you've got to imagine a pretty nasty business itself. And he gets back to England after the war and starts an import-export business that, you know, the point of it really is to get things from behind the iron curtain, the emerging iron curtain that people would want on the other side of it. an import export using the connections that he had still back, you know, back in the old country. And so he starts doing that and eventually starts a publishing company, which specializes

and basically, like, it eventually became just a huge publishing empire. But like the way he got his, you know, his feet under him and really started to grow was he had basically a monopoly on getting scientific journals from behind the Iron Curtain and bringing them out and translating them for Western scientific audiences. And so, you know, he grows that. into multi-billion dollar publishing empire daily mirror new york daily news like all these things he eventually owns down the line um when you get to uh let's see this would have been 47 48 so he's got his import export business going he's got connections to british intelligence he uh is maybe 25 years old i think at this point and he um at this uh while he was in while he was in uh britain he had become very enmeshed

the Zionist scene there and really kind of had become a convinced, like, ideologue when it came to Zionism. And so when they need weapons, you know, after the British got run out of Palestine by the Zionist terrorists in 4748, they put a weapons embargo on the Zionist movement, and then the early state of Israel. It was illegal to send anything to them. And so they needed weapons, though, and they got them. And the way that they got them was usually black market off the book stuff. And the way that you got to do things like that is you need people who can do it. You know, I mean, it's one of those things like where a lot of times things that pass in the news or in history books with like a line or two, you know, it lets us kind of glide past

the incident or the event without really unpacking all of the background stuff that is required to accomplish something like that, you know? And so, for example, like you would hear about like, and this is, you know, just, this is just an example, but you would hear about like, oh, there's a, you know, a member of ISIS who is from, you know, Algears and he's in Syria now, like fighting or whatever. And you're like, okay, wait, you have like a half literate dude from the slums of Algiers who somehow got on a plane to Istanbul, found his way to the border, managed to make his way through the country, got arms and training, and got there without being killed by the first person who saw him and found the right people to get hooked up with

and just did all this on his own. And the answer is obviously, of course he didn't do it on his own. It's ridiculous, you know. And so when the Zionists need weapons and they're pulling them from anywhere they can get them, you need guys like Robert Maxwell, a guy who runs an import export business who's already running behind and in front of the iron curtain doing different things, speak several languages, connections to intelligence, and has the balls to actually accomplish all this. And so one of the, you know, main things that he was specifically like assigned to was getting aircraft and aircraft parts to the Zionists and really was like a decisive thing in their 48 war against the Arabs. And so it was another example, by the way, and this is just

sort of, you know, to kind of flesh out the point. Lyndon Johnson actually was involved with getting weapons and other supplies to the Zionists in defiance of American law. back during these years when the Americans, we had a weapons embargo, you know, over there. And he was working with a Zionist friend of his there in Texas. And you can read all about this if you want to go to Washington, D.C., and go into the Holocaust Museum and look up a paper by Louis Gamelik. It's been written about in the Times of Israel and other places,

but I actually went and read the whole thing because I've been fascinated by this. Lennon Johnson was a U.S. congressman at the time. and he was working with a private sector friend in Texas there to get weapons and other supplies sent to the Zionists in Palestine and defiance of American law, totally off the books like not, as far as I know, there's no evidence that this was something that he was doing in collusion with US intelligence or anything like that. I mean, he was a, LBJ was like a very, very, very committed supporter of Israel, like going all the way back. His aunt was one of the founders of the Zionist organization of America. His mistress was a long time. member of the Irgun terrorist organization, Zionist terrorist organization. He was one of those guys who was just very committed. And so, you know, they were shipping off weapons in crates marked for Texas grapefruit out to Palestine and to get them to the Zionists. And so that's the kind of thing that's happening. That's just one example. Maxwell's another example. They were pulling these things anywhere they could, you know. The Jewish mafia in the United States and Europe was

was a big part of helping the Zionists get what they needed out there. And so when you need to get something like that, like to come back forward like a Rang Contra going, you know, again, this is not something that like one guy can pull off. You need money launders. You need people in the region with connections who can actually facilitate the transfers across guarded borders. Okay, wait. Let me jump in here for a second. I mean, Darrow, it seems like you're kind of raising the question of like maybe this was the guy's real job was not. Maybe like it was just a coincidence that he was a child rapist and he wasn't blackmailing all these guys he was just a money launderer and that's why he's best friends with so many of these other powerful people something

like that what do you think yeah so i mean i think early on that that that is true he was a money wander um there may have been a second phase of his career and again i think like i don't get i don't i don't like trying i don't like getting like too far over my skis on this on this issue because there's obviously it's one of those things that just invites all kinds of speculation and conspiracy theories and you have to kind of you have to kind of that Netflix documentary they have two different very credible witnesses who say they saw Bill Clinton at that island down there so maybe he was just hanging out for like fun in the sun but then again I already know he's a rapist because I saw one either

Broderick's interview long suppressed interview and they finally released it in 1999 and she's the most believable person in the world on that subject give me a break so i mean full story is corroborated by her friend at the time you know her friend at the time talked about how her lip was split and all like i mean yeah so it's a very corroborated people who don't know the story by the way uh i believe it was lisa mears at mbc news finally convinced her to give her an interview and then they buried the interview for months and waited till after clinton was acquitted in the senate and only then did i guess the wall street journal started running that things about it on the editorial page, and then they finally published the NBC interview after it was

too late to get rid of the guy. Yeah. One of the things that Stephen Hoffenberg, Epstein's business partner, who he helped put in prison, told Vicki Ward, was that Epstein had told him. Wait, who's Vicki Ward again? Vicki Ward is the journalist who was on this story, like in the early 2000. With Vanity Fair story? At first, with Vanity Fair, but then they shut down.

This is a whole crazy story in and of itself, actually. she had three witnesses she was at three which she had three underage witnesses all completely on the record all unconnected to each other but corroborating each other's stories and important details all accusing geoffrey epstein of sexual assault she had these girls on the record she had their families on the record all these things and so she's got this story ready to run it's gone through legal review already at vanity fair And all of a sudden, Graydon Carter, who was the editor of Vanity Fair at the time, he decides, after, right before it goes to print, to take out all the stuff about sexual allegations. And the thing reads just basically like a puff piece to this international man of mystery, Jeffrey Epstein,

takes all of it out. And she couldn't understand what's going on because it had already been through legal review. And she had, I mean, you're talking about on the record witnesses, you know. And what we know now, and this is corroborated by people who worked at Vanity Fair at the time, including an executive who was very close to Carter. He walked into his office one day in the morning. The place was totally closed and locked up, and there was a bullet sitting on his desk. And then he had a country house, like outside the city, Graydon Carter did.

And he went there one time or he came out of it one morning or something. I don't know exactly the detail on that. And there was a decapitated cat's head sitting on the front stoop of his house. And so these are clear threats. They were interpreted as threats. That executive who knew him well said he understood very well that these were threats. And he connected it to Epstein. And, you know, Epstein had come in and berated him personally, like before the story went to print.

He didn't know how he didn't know how Epstein even knew about the story and the details in it. But he showed up before anybody else was in the office, Graydon Carter shows. up and his locked office, Jeffrey Epstein is in there standing waiting for him in the morning when he gets there and just berates him. And so he intimidates him into cutting all that stuff out of the story. And it turns out later, you know, obviously, that this was, again, I think this was 2003. And so 2003, you know, you have this guy dead to rights. I mean, you know, three on the record witnesses, all these things. And you wonder like how many girls got abused after that, that you know that could have been spared that experience um because it wasn't until 2007 then he

eventually got arrested and even when something like that happened you know one of the questions i think people ask sometimes it's like okay but he can get away with all this stuff why do they even arrest him that why even and i think it's because you know you get to a certain point there were 30 something on the record witnesses you know at this point and it becomes like it can become a problem even for the people who are who are running an asset like this you know it's just Let me ask you, because, you know, from what I saw the thing where, like, what all was going on at his house in South Florida seemed to be just him and the girlfriend and their victims. But then sort of the rest of the story is, yeah, but he's got this extremely exclusive mansion in Manhattan. And he's got a private island or Ryan Dawson's email this morning said he had two islands down there in the Virgin Islands.

And then we know he had this giant ranch out there. New Mexico out in the middle of nowhere and all of these powerful people coming by and it is easy to just jump to conclusions it's easy to see it makes such sense that the

obvious M.O. would be to get these guys drunk and laid and then in the morning let them know that that 19 year old was actually 16 and we own your ass now right like it's the easiest thing the actual the appetites of some of these

guys could be for actual little kids too you know i wouldn't put it past hardly any of these people and of course it's a great way to blackmail and control people if you're working for intelligence but there's a lot of assumptions baked into that too and so i don't know and i have questions about it too just in the sense of um you know you can blackmail a person maybe you can blackmail two people you start pulling that like word gets around you know um maybe not of like the specific material you're blackmailing with them with but word gets around that this guy like you got to be careful around him and that people clam up and stop talking to you and stop associating with you you know because yeah okay this guy being bill clinton's getting blackmailed he doesn't want anybody to

know but he you know he has a couple like really really close friends that he says like man this guy's got me over a barrel or whatever doesn't well well it always seemed like to me His attitude was like, fine, just keep them coming. You know what I mean? Yeah, Bill Clinton, I mean, and this is maybe a bias of mine, but like when people talk about Clinton and Trump also, like, it's usually not, like, that might, that's maybe the date rapist, you know, that might be the guy who, like, bites one eat of Broderick's lip and, like, thinks that, you know, he's given her a great time by raping her or something

like that guy. But the sort of, you know, smooth alpha male dude is usually not the kiddie to do. like that's just not usually the MO of a person it's usually not the varsity quarterback who's like into little kids you know what I mean it's him who might not take no for an answer at the kegger on Saturday but yeah Bill Gates seems like the kind of guy who just be really excited to have sex with a pretty girl you know what I mean like it wouldn't have to be anything more special than that probably I don't know who knows dude you know all of this the story is uh the the podcast series I did on this is like six seven hours long and there's so much detail and I still

a lot of stuff out. So I want to throw in a couple of things because I know we only have like a certain amount of time here. And I will be going on. The most incriminating reason to believe that he really worked for the Israelis and or the agency. I mean, what the hell? We have the statement about the agency. We talked about that. But I'll tell you one thing. I saw Kim Iverson say to Alan Dershowitz. Yeah, but the deal is he's blackmailing all you guys into supporting Israel. And Dershowitz goes, young lady, I've been supporting Israel since before you were born. And he ain't got a black male me. I saw somebody during the lead up to the Iran-Israel conflict that was going on talking about, you know, Ben Shapiro must be getting paid by Israel.

It's like, I don't think they have to pay him. But like the, you know, about the CIA airline Air America. They were involved in Iran-Contra. They were actually the, they were the renamed. They had renamed it from Vietnam when they were using it to run weapons and drugs and warlords from Laos and Cambodia and doing black ops over there. When everything starts to come out about what Air America was up to, I think they changed it to the name the Southern Air Transport at this point. The day that it, I don't think it hit the news, I think it was getting congressional testimony, like sealed testimony. that we have now, but it was sealed at the time. The day that that testimony came out, Air America

or Southern Air Transport, whichever they called it at the time, filed for bankruptcy. And then Jeffrey Epstein, weird, right? Like, what does this guy have to do with anything? Jeffrey Epstein facilitates the purchase of that company that was a CIA-run front company for Black OBS, facilitates the sale of that to Les Wexner. And it was based. based out and it was from that point on it was based out of Columbus, Ohio, which is where Les Wexner lived and Jeffrey Epstein had the second largest house in the state of Ohio. Wexner had the first largest one. And so you have like little things like that. Like there's just these little details where it's like he has no business being in a place like this, you know,

in carrying out a deal like that. What about what do we know about clients? People say, give me the client list. I know that Ryan Dawson has said, well, there is no list. You got to do journalism and look into it and you can go ahead and see because but we do know that like he had some podna his who supposedly committed suicide too in europe right and and we had um i think there's been some civil lawsuits against banks that were involved in yeah facilitating this and then and so there's some discovery and some real information about somebody was raping these girls other than epstein himself and there is evidence of that correct yeah Well, yeah, I mean, including the best evidence of all, which is that several of these girls who don't know each other at all have all independently named the same people that they were abused by, guys like Alan Dersh.

They didn't just name him. Who all have? Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, definitely. So who all, you know? Well, did they point their fingers at then? I don't know everybody. But Alan Dershowitz is one that, you know, that comes up very often because he was named by three separate girls who were not friends.

they weren't sisters. They didn't know each other. And he was named by three separate girls. You know, that's one of the prominent ones. Like a lot of the people, this is one of the reasons that I am willing to believe that he was not running an operation like this up to the point that he was arrested is the people that he was hanging out with more in like the 2010s, you know, 2015 and so on. You don't hear much about them from the witnesses. This is mostly stuff, you know, that is from years past because that's when these girls were that age. And so those are the witnesses you have. don't have a bunch of 14-year-olds who say they were abused as 14-year-olds in 2017. You know what I mean?

Like, there's not a lot of those witnesses on the record. And so I don't know exactly what was going on after that. But, you know, one other thing to point out is there are a lot of these people who, like Steven Hoffenberg, his former business partner is one, but there are several other people who knew him back in the day, either in financial capacity or just his friends, who back before any of this stuff was public before he ever went to jail before any of this kind of he was just a guy you know a rich guy who all said that Jeffrey Epstein had claimed to be tied into intelligence agencies back then and these are separate people who don't know each other who said this long

before anybody even knew anything about this story but then you just look at his like his connections you know like one of his besties apparently i mean is ahud barak who was the former head of Israeli military intelligence and, uh, prime minister of Israel. Yeah, there's guys of them together, right? Oh, forget pictures. I mean, Ehud Barak lived with them at various times. They started a business together, uh, that was a, it was like a tech business that was, um, that was started up by, they were like the main investors, uh, but it was started up by a bunch of former unit 8200 guys out of Israel, which is their NSA basically, their signals intelligence outfit. And, um, you know, Barack was, you know, he's a guy who, you know, he, you don't want to like, I don't, I don't know of any evidence that this is part of the issue with something like this is like people hear that this guy went on the plane or this guy stayed at his house or whatever. And kind of the natural thing to do is attach him to the most salacious part of the story. You know, he was there doing things to kids with Jeffrey Epstein or something.

you've got to be careful with that stuff, you know, like the one good reason to not just dump the entire file, Epstein file, on the public and just let it all be out there, which I'm sympathetic to the people who want that to happen. I totally understand. But look, man, there were people there who just accepted an invitation to, like, go to a conference at Jeffrey Epstein's ranch, you know, and they went there. And now for the rest of their life, there's going to be an asterisk next to their name that says potential pedophile, you know, and you don't want to put that on people who don't deserve it. Like, I get that part. And so I don't have any information that says Ehud Barak was involved in any of that kind of thing. And so I want to be clear about that. You go back to 2007, actually. This was in, I can't remember what newspaper was in or magazine. I have to look it up, but it wasn't National Inquirer or something. And it wasn't a book by Whitney Webb.

It was a mainstream news source that was talking about how before he went to prison, after he had been convicted, but before he was sentenced in 2007, he went to Israel for like six weeks. And he had to be talked out of by people over there. He had to be talked out of staying there and sort of like, you know, to come back and serve his time in the United States. Because Israel, I mean, you know, you can do damn near anything. If you're Jewish and you live in the diaspora, you go to Israel. They will not extradite you.

And they're not going to charge you with, you know, their version of the crime there. People bring this up a lot in connection with pedophilia because it's the one that's the most shocking to people. there are American and European Jewish pedophiles who are in Israel who are walking around free because they fled to the country and they won't give them back, you know, which that particular crime is obviously like a little too far for me. But, you know, on the other hand, like, I kind of appreciate the fact that Israel's like, if you're Jewish, you're one of us and we're not letting somebody else throw you in their prison, fine. But, you know, he wanted to do that no seven before he went to jail. and they sort of convinced him that like, look, you're going to go do a little time. This is not going to destroy you. We still got your back and just go back.

It'll be way easier and way less smoke if you just go do the time. And so he did. He came back and did it. And after he gets out, you know, from 08 until he's arrested in 2018, you know, that really is the period of his life that we don't have a whole lot. You know, you would think we'd have the most information about that. we know a lot about the people who went to his island and who hung out with him and all that kind of stuff. But in terms of like what he was actually up to, what he was doing with his money, what he was doing for or with Les Wexner, things like that. We don't have like we're not really exactly

sure. The guy you were talking about in Europe, by the way, Jean-Luc Brunnell, who was another guy who ran a modeling agency and he and Epstein were friends and they would use the modeling agency basically to rope in and have sex with. When there's a story of a girl who tried to escape the island by swimming away? and they found her and went out in the middle of the night in a boat and got her and brought her back, something like that? I have not, I've heard that, but I have not actually, like, looked into see, you know, what it's based on. So I'm not actually sure.

I wouldn't want to, wouldn't want to assert that. In years since I read that, it seemed like a pretty detailed story about it and everything. Well, you know, one thing that's interesting, you remember the D.C. madam. She, you know, she was like the madam to all the big shots in D.C. she got thrown in jail after years of serving, you know, D.C.'s elite, and she committed suicide in jail. And then John Luke Brunel, who was Epstein's accomplice abusing, taking advantage of a bunch of women through this modeling agency for years and years and years, eventually gets arrested, and he commits suicide in jail. And then Epstein gets arrested, and he commits suicide in jail. It's all very

interesting, you know, that these things happen, especially when you take all the coincidences it had to take place for the suicide story to be even partly believable. You know, when I go on, I'm going to go on to Tucker Carlson's show next week, next Friday. It's actually going to be a live show the first time they're on. You better not kill yourself before then, I'm going to be really upset at you. Yeah, I should probably like, instead of flying or even driving out there, I should probably just walk just to make sure there's no, you know, malfunctions of any kind. But, you know, we're going to have plenty of time. Maybe I'm coming, man.

We're going to have plenty of time in that episode to really break it down from the beginning and kind of step by step by step and go through the whole thing. Because when you get through to it, the mountain of circumstantial evidence, and I would say, like, maybe it's short of proof. But when you have Alex Acosta saying on the record to the people who were vetting him for a cabinet position, you know, that he was told by his bosses and everybody knows. knows who his bosses were at the time. You know, it was Alberto Gonzalez, I think, was the attorney general and was it Michael Mukasey, maybe was the deputy. So everybody knows who these

guys were when he says, my bosses told me he belonged to intelligence and to back off of him for that reason. You know, you connect that to like his visit in Israel when they're telling him, go back and serve your time. It's going to be fine. And then he gets back and goes to serve his time and turns out he's being prosecuted got by a guy who was told to leave him alone by his bosses. And so Acosta saying that is not proof in and of itself. You know, you're not going to throw somebody into jail and throw away the key based on just that. But the very least, right, they always say with the U.S. media or just with mass media in general, if it bleeds, it leads, you know, and that doesn't just mean violence. It means sex. It means

anything that is just sensational and salacious, like they're going to run with it, man, because it is a cutthroat competition for ratings out there. Everybody's like pulling eyeballs, however they can possibly do it. And every single bit of information that drops in the Epstein story, ever since it broke in 2018, every single one goes viral. It's a top rated show that night.

Everybody wants the information. Everybody wants to hear it. And so you would think that every single newspaper, every single cable news outfit would have like an entire team of reporters was dedicated to this story, that you'd have a guy like Alex Acosta, the government official who said on the record that he was connected to intelligence to the point that he was told to ignore the 30-something underage victims accusing Jeffrey Epstein of sexual assault and he did it, he obeyed them, that you would have reporters camped out on that guy's lawn and every time he leaves his

house, sticking a microphone in his face and saying, what exactly did you mean by that? You need to elaborate. You know, for them to come out and say the case is closed, which is now what they've told us, the case is closed when they've never given us any kind of closure on that one fact. What did Alex Acosta mean? Was he lying? If he was lying, let's have some accountability for that. If not, what exactly was going on here? Because I don't think anybody thinks he was lying. Why would he make some? That's a crazy thing to make up, you know? I mean, I try. These boxes are still alive. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but you have things like where they're on the record saying okay the mansion in new york was wired for video and

sound and then they show all these what tubs full of digital media yeah and then they go nah that was all just stuff that he downloaded that didn't have anything to do with his house being wired for video and sound where he's inviting all the most powerful people in the world and in the country over all the time yeah it's ridiculous it's coming in and out and whatever Ukrainian models or whatever you call them, you know. Yeah, yeah. And when you see things like that, that painting of Clinton and Monica Lewinsky's dress, that it was the first thing you saw when you walked in to his place, you know,

that Clinton had visited many, many times. When you see like that kind of- I bet he posed for that. I bet that's a real painting of a real scene, just like that kid in the slaughterhouse. You know what? let's take just a few more minutes. I know we're a little bit over time, but there's a part of this that we really have to cover too, which is, so his, his, his buddy, Les Wexner 100% like deep connections to Israeli intelligence. He's, uh, personally and in, in his capacity

as a member of what's known kind of, uh, publicly at least as the mega group, which is a group of Jewish and Canadian billionaires who come together to, who came together to, um, do what they could use their influence and money to drive American foreign policy in a direction that was essentially like a Lakutnik foreign policy. But they would also do things like commission researchers to write papers for Israeli intelligence, to do analysis on various things. Basically, they would do all kinds of things. And so, and you're talking about incredibly wealthy people. Les, Les Wexner was one of them. But one of, one of Epstein's previous clients when he was at Bear Stearns was another member of the mega group is Charles

Bronfman who he and his brother Edgar were the heirs to the Seagram's liquor fortune. And if the name sounds like a little bit familiar outside of that context, it's because Edgar's daughter, I think two of his daughters actually, they were like the main ring leaders in that nexium sex cult with Keith Reneer that came out, you know, maybe I don't know what was it, 10 years ago now, five years ago. And so it was just another one of those things where you're like, I don't have any evidence at all that like Epstein and the, you know, nexium sex cult have anything to do with each other.

But it is just weird, again, that you have like one degree of separation between these people and various different weird, you know, either sex rings, sex cult things. And, you know, like the question that always comes back to me when I look at these things, right? And it really hit me when, uh, when, um, Biden named his secretary of state, you know, his initial secretary of state, Blinken. Because I had read about a little bit about, because I've been on the Epstein story, kind of not as deeply as somebody like Ryan, you know, or anything, but aware of it and keeping tabs on it for a long time.

And so when Blinken was appointed, I knew that Blinken's stepfather was Robert Maxwell's main lawyer and primary confidant and the last person that spoke to him before. before he, quote unquote, accidentally died by falling off of his yacht near the Canary Islands. And so you have like Blinken's stepfather, Robert Maxwell, can we just, is it too much to ask to have like just, you know, there's certain litmus tests that get a little bit. You know, you don't want a purity spiral too much like when it comes to government officials. You can't expect and demand too much of these people. Obviously, they're not capable of it. But is it possible that we can just have one high level government. government official who's not like a degree or two separated from the worst sex, you know,

pedophile billionaire guy in the history of the country. Can we just have like a couple people up there who aren't attached to them besides Thomas Massey? Because apparently the answer is no. You cannot. You cannot have that. Yeah. It's it's pretty ugly. And now so obviously the Wexner thing and the Maxwell thing is really important. But do we see? do you have much kind of causal connection between his association with people and there then more avowedly pro-zionist behavior after that anything like that no i don't and it's one of the reasons that i'm not here to debunk this stuff i'm kind of still a believer in it but i'm i'm i'm looking for actual proof is all i mean devil's advocate trying to get you to tell us the best

to what you know, or the worst thing. You know, they're, they're, like, it's not as if, um, the Israelis, uh, are above that kind of behavior. You're like, we know that from the 1990s when Netanyahu pulled Clinton aside and let him know that they had recordings of, uh, Monica Lewinsky's phones that they had tapped. Um, and so, you know, these are, you know, that's fine. That's, that's the kind of thing that I think everybody expects intelligence agencies to do. You know, you tap, uh, foreign leaders, mistress's phone. And you can, you can, you, you can, you can hold that over his head. When you're drawing them into like actual crimes against children

and things, you know, that's something that really requires. Like, you really have to have all your ducks in a row before you, you assert those things with like certainty. And so, you know, you're asking the right question, which is if he was doing this as a, as a large scale blackmail operation, what was the, what was he blackmailing people for, you know? And I don't know. I mean, I can't think of any, I can't think of any examples of somebody. Well, first of all, a lot of them were people who, who cares if Bill Gates is like super pro-Zionist? Like, nobody cares. Like he, you know, he's-

Microsoft is going to do business in Israel, no matter what. Yeah. And so one of the interesting things, though, is a guy who, a guy named Ari bin Manashe, who he's a former employee of Israeli military intelligence, wrote a book, you know, The Israeli government, of course, at first they said, we don't know who this guy is. He never worked for us. And then later on, now they've kind of come around to admitting, yeah, he worked for military intelligence, but he was a nobody. He doesn't know anything.

He's full of it. But the guy who ran Israeli military intelligence at the time and a guy who was a big shot going all the way back to the late 1950s in the Israeli intelligence and military establishment, he was his boss at the time. And he said that if Ari says that this is what happened, that's probably what happened. and that's probably what happened. He's on record saying that. And so can't prove it, but there's good reason to believe that this guy at least was in the role that he says he was in. And he says, you know, that one of the things that happened when in Israel,

I can't even, gosh, no, I got to go over my notes again because I can't remember the head of military intelligence name at the time that Manashe was working for. It's killing me because it's like a, a major name in like Israeli military history, intelligence history. But he kind of had this innovation where he really shifted their focus to technological espionage in other countries. And, you know, he ran the Jonathan Pollard ring, for example. And this is the period when Menace says Epstein was kind of connected with him and with the people he was working for.

And so when you look at the people like Bill Gates, like his interest in the Santa Fe Institute and all the other scientist types that he would always kind of surround himself with, that starts to fit in a little bit, you know, like the technological espionage, scientific espionage side of things. That may be, you know, that may be the case. But you're getting into like deep speculation here because again, like even even the idea that he was running a blackmail ring, like that is like we have evidence short of proof even on that. It's something that you have to kind of put two and two together and then draw conclusions about. But we don't have an example of like, all right, this person, you know, was blackmailed by him and this was the quid pro quo. We don't have any of that for any time ever. And so you really just, it's really all built on speculation. And, you know, the technological angle of it probably makes more sense than, because, you know, one of the things too is like everybody's heard of Jeffrey Epstein.

And so you think like there's this guy, there's this one guy who runs this black. mail operation and does this thing and take him off the board and like that's it like they if there's one there's probably two and if there's two there's ten you know doing various things like this and they're not all trying to blackmail presidents to get them to lean in a Zionist direction some of them are doing much probably smaller scale stuff you know trying to compromise again scientists technologists and stuff to make sure that certain things get funneled you know in the direction they're supposed to get funneled and so it may just be something like that where it's not quite this all-encompassing, like, gigantic scope thing that people really want it to be

because that's like people love conspiracies, you know, as you, they eventually just, like, like a, like a black hole, just pull everything in until the whole universe is explained by like this little theory, you know. That's not always the case. Sometimes it's just one little facet of like a much, much larger story. And I think when you look at somebody like Epstein, I think that that's probably most likely the case. You know, I think that he was probably a guy who had a role as a dealmaker and a money launderer, possibly a blackmailer for US and Israeli intelligence, who then he just got too, he got too crazy, man. He got too loose and he became a liability. And, um, you know, he got picked up. I mean, and again, like it's when you look at things

like the fact that Bill Barr is the guy who arrested him, his father just happens to be the guy who gave Epstein his first job. He was totally unqualified for who also writes novels about aliens, raising children as sex slaves, like you put all that together and you're like, oh, and both of those guys worked for the CIA or OSS before it was called that. You see all that kind of stuff. And then he dies in custody. And you're like, hmm, you know, and you have like everybody from Alan Dershowitz, who is on his legal team to his other lawyers, to people who knew him, including Epstein's brother, by the way. Epstein's brother is absolutely adamant, as were his lawyers, if there's no way he killed him.

himself. You know, and they make the point that like, look, A, he had been through this before. He got past this once, you know, like they had everything on him the first time and he got 13 months, light, you know, easy sentence in Florida. And that he still had a ton of cards to play. You know, this was not like he, you know, he was like the next day he was going to be transferred out to sing sing and all the, you know, boss crackers were going to be waiting for this Jewish pedophile to show up so they could run a train on them the next day. That's not what was happening. He had he had so many cards to play, years of appeals to play out, all these kind of things. And he just kills himself right away under the most suspicious circumstances imaginable to the point that if you put it in a

farcical movie, people would say that it was just too ridiculous to believe and, you know, didn't belong. And so it's just one of those things, again, it's all circumstantial for the most part, but when you put it all together. Well, look, in the last few minutes here. Let's talk about what the administration had said, including Patel and Bongino and Bondi, in the run-up to their big announcement yesterday. That actually, it turns out, there's no there there after all. Yeah. Yeah. So Bondi's getting hit hard because she said, not in an offhand comment, but on the White House lawn, you know, that's a format for a news conference that you know it's like the just short of the president uh showing up on camera

staring down the the barrel of the camera in the oval office you know this is kind of an official statement and she said when asked about the Epstein client list she said it's on my desk right now and she says now that what she was saying was the Epstein file is on my desk for review and she hadn't reviewed it but now she's reviewed it and there's no client listing there which is totally believable I mean like why would there be a client list you know what I mean like that's not uh that that's asking for things to be a little bit too patent on the nose i mean you could see that is sort of you know a figure of speech invented out here in the world not from them but you could see like the potential that the FBI would have compiled one from like the best we know

it seems like these are the people who you know he was serves in or whatever was you know my kind of special theory on this i'll get back to the administration here one second but this is one thing it should be mentioned as well um there's an incident i covered in the epstein series I went very deep into detail about it. I actually read a whole book about it. It's a very obscure kind of incident that most people don't remember now. But in the 1970s in Northern Ireland, there was, and people who were over there in that region, they know all about this, but the Kinkora Boys Home scandal.

And it involved this MI5 agent who was like this super gung-ho kind of pro-British Army, just, you know, the guy who was completely with the program, go-getter type of dude who named Colin Wallace was the guy's name. who was, he was assigned to Northern Ireland, and he found out that there was a bunch of abuse going on at this boys' home that was run by a guy who had connections to MI-M-I-6. He was an Ulsterman with connections to MI-6. And he starts going to his bosses and saying, you know, I've got, this is what's going on in this place.

And I'm seeing people whose names, we all know, like, go into this place. And I think there's something. And he got shut down, eventually charged with a crime. He got charged with manslaughter for killing his friend. But then eventually it was overturned. But he did some time in jail. It was a total framed job. The name of the book is actually who framed Colin Wallace.

And he goes into undeniable detail that not only was the guy framed, but he was framed because he was pushing this issue really hard with his bosses. And he kept getting told to leave it alone. And what was going on there was not, you know, where you had a guy who, the guy running the home was bringing in politicians and other important people and compromising them kind of personally. What you had was a pedophile ring, a group of perverts who were coming into this place, being led by this one dude, and MI5 knew about it, and they were monitoring it, and they were collecting information on everything that was going on there. And for them,

this is like a gold mine. I mean, holy cow, can you imagine? And so it's not like they set it up. It's not like they were running the guy who was running the boys home. It's just they found out about this and they are getting dirt on all of these important people, which at the time, the big issue was whether they were going to change strategy on Northern Ireland. That was like the big, because this is back when the troubles were going on and stuff. And there was a push like from the Labor Party to change tack and kind of soften the British approach and redirect the resources in other places. And MI5 and the military establishment was not having that. And so they were blackmailing British politicians using and Irish politicians as well who were taking advantage of boys in this

in this boys home. And so it may be something like that. You know, it may be something where Jeffrey Epstein was just a pervert and he had a way of like, you know, he liked, he was a starfucker who liked to hang out with other like super famous and rich people. And he was really good at kind of sussing out which of these guys might be interested in like the things I'm interested in. And then intelligence agencies are just kind of watching and taking notes as all this is going on it could be as simple as that you know which makes geoffrey epstein like a much less interesting kind of part of the part of the puzzle just makes him sort of uh you know not a bit player obviously it's still a central player but it may be something like that you know right now we are

we are running real short on time here so um now what about what patel and bongino had said in the past about what we know about this guy that we're going to tell you all about it because i know there has been quite a discrepancy between some of their very definitive what the quote of Bondi, I agree, really could be interpreted the way that she says now. But they had said more explicit things in the past about what they know about this and what we're going to find out when we find out and all that, right? Yeah. And so the really interesting question here ties back to what I asked earlier about, like, you know, all his millions and millions of dollars in fame and public goodwill didn't help Bill Cosby. You know, it's not helping Puff Daddy. You know,

it didn't help Dominique Strauss Khan when he when he got you know accused of rape by that maid in the hotel although that was there's a lot of fishy stuff about that but the point is his fame and wealth didn't help him and yet this Epstein guy gets a free pass kind of everywhere he goes and you you know you ask yourself okay so what is it what possible thing because I don't think Bongino is a liar I don't think he's like a guy who's just you know he kind of conned his way his audience into like building fame so he could get into the FBI and be a part of the, part of the system that's doing, I don't think it's like that. I think it's probably like a lot of these people who they get into that position and then

people drop something on their desk and they say, no, this is why you're going to keep your mouth shut and it's convincing to him. And so you have to ask, what possible thing could it be that would cause Dan Bongino to just betray his audience in such a direct way? Cash Patel, same thing to do this in such a direct way. And I mean, it's, there's only, a few things, you know, and one of them, you go to their own statements, you know. Cash Patel, when he came in to run the FBI, said, we will prioritize Israel. When Dan Bongino was asked, what is like one thing you consider like your real like mission? Like the thing, it's very, he said, it's very personal to you. And he said, that's easy. Israel. Defend Israel. And you hear what Trump says

and his approach and all these things. And look, if you're a person who, even if you're not a Ted Cruz dispensationalist, like, you know, crazy person who thinks you have to nuke Iran to like bring about the apocalypse or something, you know, you can understand the mentality, right? It's the same mentality that, you know,

all of the law enforcement intelligence agencies at the federal level, you know, every once in a while, things will get declassified. And you're like, how in the hell is this classified? The one that comes to mind is Andy McCabe, when he was the deputy director of the FBI, classified the fact that he had spent $70,000 on a conference room table for the FBI headquarters. And when you see something like that, you just kind of realize, like, this is a national security. It's not anything like that. They just don't want that information going out in the public because it looks terrible, you know.

And they're thinking, and again, from their perspective, I think this actually makes sense, is they look at it. It's like, it is a national security imperative that the American people trust the FBI so that the FBI can go do its job, stopping terrorists and doing all these different things. If the American people lose faith in federal law enforcement, that'll be a, that's a national security problem. Therefore, when the FBI does something that should cost them the American people's trust, we've got to cover that up in the name of national security, in the name of protecting people. and you know something like this i mean you look at it and they they ask themselves like look this is horrible maybe behind the scenes we can discipline the israelis in some way or whatever but we cannot just dump on the american public that the Israelis were running jeffrey absstein like for all these years in the united states like the problem is man is you know just to sum

up here i mean the reason we're talking about this is the reason everybody's talking about this is because they are denying it, where they'd be better off just telling the worst of the ugly truth now and rip the band-aid off because of the, it's just the Barbara Streisand effect to the whole thing. And it on some rogue agent who's dead now, you know. Yeah, pin it on some rogue agent who's dead now or, you know, something like that, you would think. Because the stricent effect is real. And I'll tell you, it's like, Ariel Sharon, he's dead. There you go. You know, But for people like me and you who have the attitude toward government in general and the U.S. government specifically, I mean, this is the biggest gift we could get.

Like the way they're responding to all this and handling it is a beautiful gift because, you know what, we can never let this story die. Even if we get no more information, no more anything, we can never let this story die because 50 years from now, when young people are coming up and starting to get political and starting to look at the U.S. government, this is going to be an entry point for them to understand the name. of the institution that they're interacting with. And it will always be that and that is a good thing ultimately, you know. And so that that's kind of the way I look at it. It's just it's a way that, you know, people will look at it and when you get into it, you realize that if they will do this, then they will do anything. There's nothing that is that is beyond these people. And it's a simple enough story too, right? It's not a big complicated thing about how we got into the dirty war in Syria or whatever. It's just like, hey, look, this guy was allowed to get away

with this by Attorney General Janet Reno and Attorney General John Ashcroft and Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez and Attorney General Mike McCasey and Attorney General go down the list this whole time. All of these people let this happen. You know, thank God Janet Reno didn't save those kids. We know what that looks like. But the rest of them, though, had a job to do. Anyway, we should go. We're out of time. It's been an hour and a half. But this has been great. And how do you like that for provoked everybody huh um provoked i'm scott horton he's darrell cooper um check me out at scott horton dot org and my substack is scothorton show dot com if you want to start listening to the audio book of provoked uh the book which uh i got the first uh three major parts there for you

just already nine hours worth which is only like the first third of the book so keep you busy um and then uh you know buy my books and listen to my show and stuff like that uh and then uh you're at Where? Martyr Maher Maid is the name of the podcast. You can look that up. It's all long-form history. I do have a six or seven-hour series on the Jeffrey Epstein story that goes very deep that covers other cases of kind of, you know, well-substantiated elite and government pedophilia operations and rings that are going on. It's a dark story, but a necessary one. If you want to hear the shorter version of it, check me out on Tucker Carlson's show. Friday. I guess that would be, what, the 18th? The 18th, that evening we will be going live,

Tucker's first ever live show, and we're going to go through all this stuff in deep detail and cover it that way. So, yeah, you can, if you want to, if you want to come to, if you want to support the Martyrmaid podcast or anything, you can go to subscribe.martormaid.com. That's the substack. But I would say hold your fire on that and wait until we get something set up to to support us here on Provo. So, yeah, this was fun. I'm always a little bit scatterbraining when I, when I have, you know, seven hours of information to fit into 90 minutes, you know, kind of goes out of the way. Yeah. Well, you're a hell of a lot better at it than I am. But yeah, this is a story we're not going to let die. We're going to keep this thing going

because after we are all dead and gone, just like the JFK assassination, this is going to be a way for people to understand the nature of the state and the institutions that, you know, are really our enemies. Because, I mean, look, I don't want to, I'm not, to be clear, I am not calling for violence or anything like that. Just write that off. I'm not calling for anything. Go read the Declaration of Independence and the list of grievances they brought against the English king that justified a full rebellion, a war to break free of the English crown. And then compare that list of grievances to our intelligence agencies working with an established long-time mass pedophile to accomplish their goals. And tell me, like, which of those kind of stacks up,

you know? Yeah. At the very least, we could stop believing in them, you know, that's all I'm asking is stop giving them the benefit of legitimacy and doubt where they do not deserve it. All right. So, yeah. Oh, and by the way, check. out my interview on Tucker last week if you missed it definitely check it out if you guys are my listeners and you're not as familiar with Scott's work go listen to his interview that he recently did with Tucker it is the best education you're going to get on U.S. relations in the Middle East in the modern era like since the since the 70s that you're going to find it's three hours long and it's got 20 hours of information in it and Scott is a lot better at keeping things

orderly and understandable than I am so so definitely go check that out yeah oh and by the way this is important news we'll end with this which is that this show is number eight in the brand new podcasts on apple podcast and that was within just a couple of days it took us a little while to get the apple thing approved so then just a couple of days we're in the top 10 we're beating the undertaker from the wwee and we're right behind reese witherspoons stay-at-home mom book club dude so that's pretty good and rookie numbers rookie numbers that's right and on the list of a history podcast We're ahead of Dan Carlin. So fist bump to you, my man, and we'll see you next week.

Yeah, this is fun. You know,