Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton - EP:33 - Epstein's World

Episode Date: February 7, 2026

Darryl Cooper & Scott Horton break down the contents of the latest Epstein files releases with special guest Saagar Enjeti from Breaking Points, examining the moral decay within government and other power structures and advocating for accountability, urging listeners to confront these truths and continue pushing for transparency and justice. Chapters: 1:10 Release 2:17 Public Outrage and Accountability 4:08 The Power Nexus Revealed 6:20 Epstein's Role in Global Affairs 7:58 The Lottery and Influence 9:28 A Different Moral Code 12:05 The Dynamics of Elite Power 15:54 The Implications of Silence 17:25 Epstein's Intelligence Connections 18:25 The Spider's Web 21:40 Money Laundering and Power 24:54 A Culture of Impunity 28:59 The Nature of Elite Criminality 33:13 Ghislaine Maxwell's Knowledge 36:36 The Cover-up Mechanism 38:11 The Complexity of Intelligence 41:15 The Shift in Perception 42:41 Circumstances of Epstein's Death 45:55 The Dark Side of Power 48:25 The Price of Silence 49:59 The Illusion of Accountability 53:50 Russian Connections and Influence 57:07 The Supremacy Complex 59:59 Public Perception vs. Reality 1:03:52 The Exploitative Reality 1:07:26 The Hidden Hand of Power 1:09:50 The Fall of Empires 1:13:29 Closing Thoughts and Reflections (Cleaned up w/ the Podsworth app. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podsworth.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) Provoked show site: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://provoked.show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Darryl's links: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@martyrmade⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://subscribe.martyrmade.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Scott's links: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@scotthortonshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://scotthortonacademy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://libertarianinstitute.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://antiwar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://scotthorton.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://scotthorton.org/books⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.scotthortonshow.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

All humans break. The difference between humans and gods is that gods can break humans. Negotiate now. End this war. You're watching Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton, debunking the propaganda lies of the past, present, and future. This is provoked. All right, you guys, welcome to the show, a pretended live version. actually recorded earlier today version of the show.

And we got our special guest, Saga and Jetty, from Breaking Points. And of course, co-host Daryl Cooper here, Martyrmaid, subscribe.mardamade.com for his stuff. And, of course, the subject is the Epstein Files, 3 million released, although I think they took some back. Maybe that'll be one of the topics we'll discuss here. So this is, you know, the Congress,

congressional mandated, I guess, release. Maybe we'll start with that. They don't ever release investigative material like this from the Department of Justice on anyone ever, but the public demand was such and the way that Thomas Massey wrote the law, I guess, was such that they had no choice but to do this. I know they're still withholding a lot and I know a lot of what they had released, especially a few weeks back was just completely blacked out before this. So I don't know. Maybe let's start with that. Like are there, it seemed to me like we're not learning very much about what was happening on the island who all was going there and what all was happening there so i guess let's start with

what kind of questions do you guys think are really still open here well i mean darrell i mean i'll just go kick it from the top and i'll say first for listeners to the show and in general for your interest you are the reason that any of this happened this is just like the jfk assassination The JFK assassination act, which followed the release of Oliver Stone's film. And it was because of public outrage that actually forced these members of Congress. They did not want to do this. The White House did not want to do this. It was Roe Kana.

It was Thomas Massey. It was shows like this. Daryl, it was just like your podcast from years ago. It was Tucker Carlson. It was keeping this in the ether. And it was years. I actually checked my very first video about Epstein is some seven years old now at this point, just to show how long that this has taken to actually get us.

to this point. Now, all of that being said, it's an inspirational story. We forced Trump's hand. We forced him to sign it because it looked horrible if he hadn't. We forced all these members of Congress eventually to do it. And then really, though, we still are at a point where the administration, yes, they have released these three million files and we'll spend a lot of time going through that. There's still, that's only half. There's still three million or so left. The deputy attorney general has said that there are videos with incriminating stuff like torture, perhaps even murder, which had not been released. Again, those are his words, not my words. I'm not trying to sensationalize, and everything I'm going to try and say today is going to be backed up

by either something in the files or some of the connections. Now, Scott, to your overall broad point, you're saying we didn't learn a ton about the island, I would dispute that. I think, and Daryl, this is probably the most useful something for you and I. With this investigative material with the emails, we see an actual glimpse into the nexus of power, into the actual global super elite, their total disregard of morality, the way that they work to, behind the scenes to whitewash their own reputations, the extent to which, you know, they will criminalize, let's say, you know, normal peasants like people on this show, but which they will actively work, buck up and support their own individuals whenever they're trying to make sure

that they are being supported. So in general, I think what we see from these files is not only confirmation all over the place and being able to color in the lines broadly of stories that we already knew, but we finally get to see congeny, concrete emails, recordings, videos, etc. Of Epstein's depraved behavior. But the story above the story is always, why was the depraved behavior allowed? And it was allowed because of his usefulness

as an intelligence asset for multiple governments all around the world. And his depraved behavior at times would intersect with his intelligence work, with his financing work on behalf of this global super elite, which largely is what enabled him to get away with this for so, so long. So that's the most important story and what I always try to emphasize, not in any way trying to minimize what the victims and all of that went through.

It's only really that the victims, so many of them went through this for so long because of the enabling of the global elite and really of multiple intelligence networks all across the way. All right, let me just say this real quick here, and then I'm going to mostly just turn it over to you guys because you both know so much more about this than me. But I guess what I would say, the only thing I think I might have to say that's interesting about it is just sort of my take that, I guess I already thought that the guy was a pimp or like sort of an overlord of pimps, and he's clearly getting powerful people laid with whoever they want in a lot of different circumstances over time in different places and whatever. But then, geez, I think, you know, wow, sex, that kind of overshadows everything.

And what I really learned from this was, wow, this guy was a real player, all sexual exculpade stuff, notwithstanding. He was, I mean, I don't know if he's just bluffing because he's jerking my chain or what. He's like, yeah, I kind of got my start with David Rockefeller at the Trilateral Commission. And then like on from there, BCCI and whatever, all the way through the 80s and 90s, whatever, and he's plugged in. Here he is with Mohammed bin Salman. Here he is with everyone. And working all kinds of deals, getting insider trading tips from British lords on Euro bailouts

and just amazingly like broad level shenanigans where I guess, depending on how you, you draw the chart in your head. Maybe he's one of the real spiders at the center of some kind of web here, rather than just some sort of fixer on the outside. I don't really know, but I'll let you boys take it from there. Because I know there's so much here to cover in terms of like subcategories and whatever. So, but what do you guys think about that?

One of the interesting things about this dump that I've been able to pick up on so far is that the thing that people were really kind of hoping to see, you know, that this guy was running a blackmail ring, and here are the people he had blackmail over, and he was running it on behalf of this or that. That's honestly small potatoes compared to what this actually reveals, you know, because this is like a, that would be, I mean, who would be shocked? Forget the Epstein thing.

Imagine he never came into the news. Nobody ever heard of them. But it came out in the New York Times that there was a scandal where the CIA or the Mossad or them together were running a sexual blackmail ring or something. Everybody would say, well, that's dark. that's bad or whatever, but it's, who would be surprised? Nobody, nobody would be surprised by that, whoever happened to be running. The fact that, you know, that you have this window, as Sagar said, into the real power dynamics

that take place behind the scenes, you know, of public decision making, you know, these emails really show you how, you know, how favors and benefits are distributed. You know, like you mentioned the insider trading part. I mean, you got the British Lord in there, but there's a lot of other stuff. I mean, you really see in there that insider trading is like the coin of the realm among these people. I mean, if you get into the club, as long as you stay on the reservation, then you get to make money like just for free, you know, and become wealthy, generationally wealthy for free as long as you stay on the reservation. There are tidbits in there that really do make you wonder like, you know, how how high this goes. The fact that Epstein won, apparently, I mean, as far as I can tell, this is not debunked or anything.

I think it's real. He won the powerball lottery twice in New Mexico. One of them was for $80 million, two days after he went into jail in 2008. Now, I'm sorry, I don't see Jeffrey Epstein going down to the local 7-Eleven and buying a couple powerball tickets. I mean, the fact that he won it twice and the timing of it and everything, man, it sure looks like a way to like funnel a payoff to him in a, which then tells you, like, well, who would have the power, the authority to make a call like that? You know, the lottery is going to pay out some guy. I mean, at that point, you're starting to ask, like, questions that are very hard to answer with the material we have.

But how Jeffrey Epstein, this guy whose entire existence was based around, you know, either strong arming or finessing financial and other favors from, you know, from elites and from elite institutions, how that is just total coincidence. That guy happened to win the powerball lottery twice. It just seems, you know, far more unlikely than the alternative. There's something going on there, you know, and that's not something that a, you know, that a governor could do probably. I mean, it's something like takes, you know, it's a wide level of influence. You'd have to exercise to pull something like that off.

The other thing, it's interesting, too. I mean, this, ever since I did the third episode of my Epstein series, the most interesting part of the whole saga to me has really been the revelation of something that people I think

they talk about, they kind of know, but you don't know, no, just the totally different moral system or lack thereof that people at elite level

seem to operate with, you know, the level of comfort that these people had with Jeffrey Epstein's known crime, I mean, you know, I say this every time I do an interview or an episode on this subject is that you, Scott, Sager, me, probably every single person we know, you know, you walk

onto somebody's private airplane because he invites you to go to someplace and you get there and half a dozen underage girls that are not his relatives come out in their underwear and start offering your massage, you're going to physically assault that guy and call the police. I mean, every single person we know. Right. And yet no, none of these people. It's just, and you say, well, how could that be that like all of the people, all of the people who would, I would say all the minority of people, right? Because most people watching this is the same, same thing.

All their cousins, all their brothers, all their uncles, all their dad, they would all beat shit out of that guy, you know? And I think most people would. And so how is it that this minority of people who would tolerate something like that all seemed to be congregated at the highest levels of power? And I think that the only real answer to that question is, well, that's why they're congregated at the highest levels of power. You know, if you think about, if you look at the way, there's testimony from, not like court testimony, but interview, you know, testimony from people who knew Les Wexner very closely back when he brought Epstein onto the scene. And they talk about how there was this huge change in Wexner's personality. like when Epstein started coming in, where, you know, we like to think that somebody's got a billion dollars or, you know, even if they're a celebrity or something like that, then they must be like super smooth operators, just kind of like gliding through life, you know, total alpha types. That's not always the case at all, you know. And in fact, it's very often not the case, especially when you start talking about technology, academia, a lot of these people are kind of nerds who happen to be really good at their craft and made it big. Look at it. like Tiger Woods. You know, you have this nerdy guy who just had his dad breathing down his neck,

his whole life to make him this great performer, and he gets out there. And all of a sudden, he's just got women freely available to him everywhere, every restaurant he goes to with a cute waitress, like it's just freely available. And, you know, the temptation's too much. Well, if you're Bill Gates, you know, you go to that restaurant and yeah, there's some women out there who just, he's super rich, so I'm going to do this thing. But it's not the same as like Tiger Woods. You know, there's not that same allure where he can just be like, hey, let's go back to my place right now. And she's going to go, oh, it's not the same thing for a guy like Bill Gates. He needs a guy like Epstein, you know, to take advantage of those impulses of his.

If you go back to like Charles Manson in the 1960s, one of the like real questions about that guy, when you just look at him, you're like this, this small, grungy, skinny ex-convict who, you know, I'm sure he had, some street smarts or whatever, but you listen to him talks. It's not some genius guy. He's a guy who's pretty obviously crazy as soon as you let him open his mouth. Why would, you know, the lead singer of the beach boys let him stay at his place for months? Why would all of these people have this crazy guy around, like all the time? And the answer is because every time he showed up somewhere, he came with a stable of two dozen hot, very often underage girls. And, you know, that's a valuable commodity, social commodity.

And if you're a guy like Epstein, and you have the ability to give a lot of these people, you know, each year that you invite him to this party of yours, whatever it is, the best weekend of their year, you know, that, again, you see a guy like Wexner. The thing that the Wexner's associate said, he came, you know, he was always sort of like a little more awkward, a little more reserved, but he started dressing differently, like more kind of like, you know, more modern and hip. became more sort of confident and like outgoing. He's just personality changed in these ways. And Epstein was sort of the facilitator of that. And, you know, I think that that doesn't, you know, that's not the same as as a direct blackmail. You know, I've actually always been,

I think Mike Benz has this part probably right. I mean, this, the idea that this like guy was running just a blackmail ring and that's what it was. I mean, you can really only do that once or twice before that game runs its course because word gets around, you know. But then, you know, you have the idea, like, you know, there's a sort of implied blackmail or a kind of, you know, you don't have to say it. You don't have to threaten anything, that kind of thing. Yeah, we're getting each other seniors here. We all know what happened that weekend.

You're not going to ever screw me over. Yes, exactly. Well, let me ask Sager here to, I know you must have, like, done a lot of focusing in on just how much, because this is obviously, like, when it comes to Epstein himself, but also we know the answer to that. But then the question about all these other people. people is just how many people are involved in actually crossing the line and having sex with or outright raping underage girls and or even children in this. How much of this is about that, really? Well, see, that's the thing. It is extraordinarily about that because that's one of the main reasons it came out. It's also sometimes not about that. And that's part of the difficulty.

I actually do believe that there are many people who are around or involved with Epstein who were aware of his proclivities or that he was a playboy. I mean, everybody's always rationalizing whenever you have access to power. All three of us have seen that. Anytime you meet somebody who's even tangentially related to power, all of us have read extensively. There's nothing outside the realm of Jeffrey Epstein and his inner circle that would be out of place in Victorian England in the way that the aristocrats of the Victorian times would behave outwardly and project and want all this morality in the behind the scenes. You're reading all this about King Edward or his grandson.

And you're like, oh, my God, like these mistresses and all this nonsense. You know, the Austrian, what was the Duke, could commit suicide with his mistress. Like, this stuff happens all the time has through all of history with people who are at the very, very, very highest levels of power. But to Scott's, like, bigger question around the island. And I do think that's what a lot of people want. I've always said, you know, look, if you know anything about power, what you're going to know is that there's no such thing as a black book which says had video.

blackmail. No, the way that it works is exactly like Lord Mendelsohn who gave the insider trading tip. There's this weird photo of men's underwear, they're long-time friends, Mandelson's rationalizing Epstein's behavior. After he, after Epstein's convicted, he goes, oh my God, what a horrible injustice. And then in the interim, we're sending each other insider trading tips. I'm supporting you, you're supporting me, I'm flying you out to the island. We're all having a good time. That is the implicit nature of any so-called blackmail. It's that we've all done a bunch of crazy stuff together. And part of that crazy stuff also happens to entail literally running the world's financial system, the world's power politics. And the other thing is with Epstein is you see this classic

intelligence asset behavior. Because I also don't want to say that Epstein was running global affairs. And in fact, what you see are he's very strategic and he uses his power, his influence, and his nexus to set up little things, things that URI may not pay attention to. So I have a list here actually in front of me. Some of the things that you may not know about Epstein's links to the state of Israel. These are from my friends over at DropSight. I also help them with some of these. Jeffrey Epstein helps broker Israeli security agreement with Mongolia. Okay, this is not a major country massively important to Israel, tangentially important. It needs to get done. It needs to get done through a certain way and through nexus. How do we get that done? Oh, let's call Jeffrey.

Second one, Jeffrey Epstein and the Mossad, how the sex trafficker helped Israel build a back channel to Russia amid the Syrian civil war. Same thing. This is an area of interest. We need to make sure via arms trafficking networks, etc., that we make a back channel. Link here, this cannot be done necessarily officially. We know how to deal with Hezbollah. We have a whole system there. But with these new group, oh, we need to go through somebody who has a good connection via the Saudis or the UAE. I'll continue. Jeffrey Epstein helped Israel sell a surveillance date to Cote d'Iwar. Same thing. I mean, this is Cote d'Ivoire. This is probably a small contract. This is not the biggest contract in the world. But you need somebody to come in, finance the deal, make the necessary types of connections. These are exactly what great intelligence assets are useful for. And even to say asset, I do not want to imply in any way that this was like a worked for most likely. He clearly worked for intelligence agencies across the world. As we already saw, Mike Benz, I believe, found that one where Jeffrey is foiaing his name. name in CIA records twice. He's not doing that as an accident. By the way, including in 1999. This is putting them on notice. Hey, guys, I'm still around.

You haven't used me perhaps in a while. Just reminding you of our long relationship going all the way back to Iran-Contra, the Khashogis flying on a private plane to the Pentagon in the 1980s when I'm 27 years old, long before Andy Leslie Wexner. And then you see little jokes between Heir-Eoud-Barrac. Hey, Jeffrey. Or, hey, Hey, A-Ud, whenever you're meeting. with the Qataris, just tell him I don't work for Mossad. And he goes, you or I, and he said,

both, smiley face. These are all inside jokes that are happening. There's another email that I flagged where Jeffrey emails a Russian businessman. All right. And this businessman happens to be a graduate of the FSB Academy and now a director of vast sums of money in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Jeffrey says, hey, I'm having a problem. There's this Russian girl. She's blunt. blackmailing a bunch of businessmen in New York. So this is like fixer behavior. Now, it would be business fixer if you're trying to make it as a PR problem going away. It's a different fixer when you email this FSB linked person and you give her her address or you give him his, her address. She's staying in New York at the four seasons here at this address for this week. This is all bad for

business. So what I'm trying to lay out here is like these links to the Russians. You got the CIA. You've got the Mossad. You've got the Rothschild family. And look, I know that this all smells like, you know, Illuminati YouTube video, some low-eye, but it's real. Like, you can go and look to the multiple wire transfers between the Rosschild family and the Epstein's,

all involving multiple business deals. At some points, they're joking about the state of Israel. And by the way, Epstein at one point is pursuing his connections to the Rothschilds to finance Israeli cyber weapons. Okay, so all of this is becoming very, very clear about the usefulness of this person. And Daryl, you and I, having, you know, delved into the case a long time ago, this was very clear, is you get fired from Bear Stearns, basically

for breaking, you know, rules. You create this fake company, the J. Epstein company. You become a master of moving Ponzi and illegal money around. The CIA, you know, even though people may think this, when they run black operations abroad, they don't open up bank accounts at J.P. Morgan Chase that says CIA. It's complicated. It's actually very difficult. You have to go around our own swift operations. You need to know how to move money around in different places. You need to deal with these shady characters, the Khashoggi's, the UAE. That's why he knows MBS. That's why he knows the Dubai port's CEO, who's one of the most vastly, most influential people in the UAE, which anybody will tell you is a nexus for black, dark, sanctions-free money

from all across the world. You maintain these connections to maintain your usefulness, to basically like the global deep state, which of course, you know, it exists and is necessary when you're running an empire. And when you see all the stuff behind the scenes, you have the media, you have the money. I think that the money remains the single most important part of the story.

It tells us everything. We saw recent wire transfers to David Ellison, okay, the new chair, you know, Paramount Skydance, the owner of CBS News. This goes back a long time. Wexner, by the way, Wexner himself, let's not forget, if you look at me, you know, my colleagues,

drop site, have reported specifically about using airfields in the vicinity, specifically for arms trafficking purposes, which all the way go back to the 1990s. So this is someone who's in his usefulness and his knowledge and his work in the intelligence world is what enables his financial laundering empire where he enriches himself becomes either a hundred millionaire or a billionaire. It's still relatively unclear. And then alongside of that comes the depravity. And And both of them are bidirectional in the way that they work together. And that's what I think that this files release colors all of that lines in.

From Mandelson to the UAE, I mean, just seeing the vast around of connections, Scott, like you said, a player. A player is not somebody who's on the sidelines. And, you know, everyone wants to focus on the salacious details, and that's fine. Like I understand because it's horrific, literally, on all of what happened. But in some ways, you know, some of it was secondary. His life with Galane, he's upset guys. I've read so many of these guys' emails. His obsession with building the massage room exactly to his taste.

I have all of the original blueprints of Little St. James, the island, and his obsession with the construction the exact way that it was all going to be put together. But everybody looks the other way on that. Because, by the way, what did we learn in the Epstein file release? Is that he helped fund the current governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands today, who happened to dismiss the attorney general who filed suit against his estate and wanted to release much of the information specifically around some of the salacious details that we have.

I even found guys in some of his hacked emails. I found a script that he had written for Bill Clinton to record as a radio political spot in the U.S. Virgin Islands. Why does he care? He needs a political legal apparatus to protect him while he's over there. So that's a good example of like his pre-usefulness to the Clintons.

What was his usefulness to Bill Gates? It wasn't just the partying. He wanted the Nobel Peace Prize. Bill even admits it. Why would Jeffrey be able to get you the Nobel Peace Prize? Oh, turns out, as we learned in the files, there's a weird emails between the Crown Prince of Norway and between Epstein and, I mean, very sexualized emails.

There's also a lot of business dealings that are going on here. So that's a good, those are all like, it's a very long-winded explanation, but people need to understand how it really is like a spider's web in which both the salaciousness and the intelligence network will both work together. And if anything, it just shows you, as I said from the very beginning, the depravity of the absolute power elite, which has existed now for centuries, if not, you know, long before to the organization of civilization. Yeah, I just want to co-sign your point that, you know, when you're talking about intelligence operations or in this particular, in particular, that the money is the center of the story.

You know, Al Capone didn't go down for ordering 100 people's murders. He went down for tax evasion. that's how these things are always uncovered. You know, is there something here that moved into an account that's associated with you, and you can't account for it in a way that at least passes muster like a brief, you know, inspection by the people who are. And so when you're doing something, especially when you're doing something that isn't, you know, it's contrary to the state's laws that you're doing it for, you know, like as it was with Iran-Contra on every side, basically,

money laundering becomes I mean it's it's it's the it's the it's the it's the it's the cardiovascular system yes the lifeblood literally you know you need a guy like Epstein and when you get when he builds himself up to a point where he has these connections and he has a certain

you know just I guess personality a moxie to him that allows him to just walk into anybody's office it's I mean this is one thing that you do hear about this guy is like he doesn't care who you are He'll walk into your office and kick his feet up on your desk for your meeting. I mean, he's just, you know, he kind of understood the power of that.

That he's not so easily replaceable once he builds himself up. You know, it's like if you have, you know, an old, older reporter at a local paper who knows everybody at City Hall and can call, they pick up when he calls every time on the first ring and everything. You can't say, well, he's just a, he writes stories about what's going on in the city. And so we can just replace him with somebody who makes, who just got out of college. No, you can't. You know, and Epstein, once he built that network, he just, you know, he seemed, even to these people who were much more publicly presentably powerful and important than he was,

to them, he seemed more important than they were, because he was the one who could get people on the phone that they couldn't get on the phone necessarily just, you know, just like that. Otherwise, they wouldn't have asked him, you know. And they couldn't bring together the people that he would routinely bring together. So, you know, and I think probably, you mentioned, like, you know, him not being like an employee of this or that intelligence. He's sort of a freelancer, and I'm sure he saw himself that way. If you go back to, like, the 1930s, you had a lot of these communist or fellow traveler types in the West, like Alger Hiss, who, you know, to his dying day, like Alger Hiss insisted he wasn't a traitor, you know, because in his own mind, like, I'm not betraying anything. like the elite class in the country that, you know, that I live in, that I'm a citizen of,

everybody kind of thinks the way I do about the Soviet Union. And I'm really just sort of a back channel diplomat kind of doing, you know, that kind of thing. And now you're dropping all this on me as if I'm, like, he really felt that way. And you come forward today where the countries that Epstein, you know, whether it's Israel or countries in Europe, in Western Northern Europe, I mean, our intelligence agencies especially, but our elite classes in general have merged to a degree that he could absolutely like, you know, be a CIA asset today, MI6 tomorrow, Mossad the next day, and feel absolutely like he's just, he's sort of working for the same apparatus the whole time. He's not switching sides. He's not doing anything like that because it really is like that

intertwined. And, you know, I think, I think that one of the most interesting things about, you know, what's come out is it really has fleshed out like we it turns out that our basic idea of what Epstein was about in those early days you know that he was primarily a money launderer and kind of you know did related activities like that what he was doing at Bear Stearns that's why he got in trouble there but he remained very very close with all the leadership at Bear Stearn so clearly he was doing it because they asked him to and he just had to step away for regulatory and public reasons that he was a money launderer, you know, who, who had, you know, exceptional skill and moxie, and he could, you know, talk his way into situate.

I mean, he talked his way into that Bear Stearns job. He talked his way into the Dalton School job when he had, you know, no qualifications for that, like, to begin with. He was just, he's one of those guys. He's this outer brood Jewish guy who, you know, you get the impression, like, he was almost kind of, to like, the super wealthy sort of more, you know, he, like, he never, it was interesting. never actually listened to him that much talk, like a little bit here and there, but listening to that Bannon interview, the way his Outer Borough accent is like so thick, and he just, he moved up

into the elite circles, but never lost that at all. Whereas a lot of guys work on that, and they really try to do that. He was sort of this, I don't want to call him like a jester type, but somebody that was kept around because he was entertaining, you know, he was this, he was this guy from the outer borough's kind of working class, middle class kind of dude who, you know, these billionaires just sort of had around because he was a kick. And they like, you know, they were just sort of, You know, yeah, they just liked having them around. And but, you know, when you go back to the, I mean, when you, one of the interesting things about this, right, is if you go back to the 1980s, the Cold War stuff, the Rand Contra is obviously the, you know, the most important thing going on back then. You really, you really see a lot of that network kind of play out over the next 30 years in Epstein's career and life, you know, that really kind of put some flesh on.

on the bone to like the theories we had about him being involved with that stuff. Like we know he was involved with Kishoggi. We had the story about him being on a plane with Douglas Lease going to the Pentagon, which by the way, like, you know, Douglas Lease's son insisted in public that he, his father didn't know Jeffrey Epstein. We now know that to be completely false. And, and, you know, just when you think about like, and again, I don't really have any information on this, but it's just one of those things where you have Bill Barr, the Attorney

General under Trump in the second half of his first term, you know, he's the CIA liaison to Congress during the Church and Pike Committee hearings. It means he's the guy whose job it is to convince Congress that whatever the CIA is giving them is enough, and they should be satisfied with that and be happy with it, you know, basically to manage what's going on there on the CIA's behalf. And this is in the mid-70s. Fast forward a little bit to the Bush administration. And this is this time when you see,

like, there's a lot of cleanup going on, a lot of cleanup for like a lot of the Cold War activities, right? And you get guys like Manuel Noriega goes down. He was working for us. He was a, you know, he was a guy who was very much on our payroll doing, you know, during all this Iran-Contra stuff. We had a lot of these drug lord types and these local leaders installed who were funneling drug money to the Contras.

and working very much on our behalf, but then he goes down because we're kind of doing cleanup after the Cold War ends, and these guys have kind of gotten a little too big for their britches or whatever. And when George Bush is in there, he brings Bill Barr in as his attorney general.

And Bill Barr, George Bush, was the head of the CIA when Barr was working there as the liaison to Congress during Church and Pike. And so then he brings him on to be as attorney general, and he watch the activities that he does while Attorney General, you know, it is very clearly,

like a cover up for all of the stuff that was going on. The right people got pardoned, the right people got put in jail, you know, to make everything kind of go away. And when you take that and then fast forward, and it just so happens to be that guy who arrests him and has him die under extraordinary circumstances in that prison. Again, I don't have anything by secret revelations on that or anything. But man, that is just really hard to believe it's a strange and coincidence, you know? Let's not forget in the email, uh,

Epstein at one point goes, do you know Bill Barr, comp, colon, CIA? All right? I mean, look, these, and by the way, he may not have even meant anything necessarily by it, except for exposing what you just said, Daryl, which is in his mind, he's going to think back to Iran-Contra. And he's going to say, oh, yeah, that was the CIA guy, right? And so you can see little peppers all throughout this. One thing, which is also very interesting, is Galane's relationship to her father. And actually, this is more under-explored. It seems to me, Galane was not as aware of Robert Maxwell's intelligence and Mossad behaviors until really after he died.

So a lot of her emails, I can see is she will get forwarded books and including other things. So one of the emails that I was able to read was an email from an Israeli saying, Galane, I'm not sure if you know all of this great work that your father did on behalf of the state of Israel. Here's a book, which details. He's like, here was the name and the alias that I knew him under, and she forwards it to Jeffrey. She being like, oh, interesting. And there's also several quotes and articles actually in the current Epstein release, which also so Epstein, quoting that. Remember, though, Galane has denied in the past that she knew anything about her any so-called Epstein intelligence and all of that activities. Again, I just do not find that credible. But that entire interview

that she did with the deputy attorney general is just not credible from a variety of perspective. She's trying to whitewash everything. I never saw any of that. She tries to downplay the Prince Andrew shenanigans. I mean, at every level, it's all just defensive Trump.

She's trying to get a part in, but a lot of it is trying to obscure all the bigger stuff that you and I are very interested in right now. And I do think that, you know, one of the dangers, perhaps, with the files is that eventually the DOJ will come out and say,

this is the last release, but there's so much more. There's a billion dollars in suspicious activity reports sitting in the United States Treasury right now, which were all compiled immediately after Jeffrey Epstein's death. We know this from Senator Ron Wyden, and it shows wire transfers all over the globe totaling more than one billion. Again, none of it was compiled until right after Epstein's debt. So where's all of that? That's actually probably the most interesting thing that I would like to get my hands on. We also have to learn here a little bit about the CIA. I mean, in terms of intelligence documents, which, by the way, don't forget,

one of the unfortunate things in the Epstein files release is, well, yeah, it's great to have a release of investigative material is it does have a national security exemption. So anything that would really be a smoking gun, Darrell for you and I and Scott, we're never going to get that. Or if we are, it's only going to be through leaks

and through other information. But we do know that almost every person who's tried to deny that Epstein had intelligence connections has been proven false. So Douglas Lease, as you said, his son, I mean, I'm not going to release it. I have a lot of emails between Doug's son and between Epstein. There's a lot of photographs and chumming around going back many, many, many years, just as a notification there for the Lease family.

Some of it is even in the current Epstein files release itself. So at every turn, people are trying to downplay. They're trying to minimize. They're trying to move away from what, again, I think is the most interesting thing. And then people might even ask and be like, well, why would the CIA even care. Well, Darrell, I actually learned about some of these cases from you, that Irish case, maybe you could talk about it here,

but when people who are connected to intelligence commit heinous crimes, intelligence has one goal. This cannot be public because it might reveal sources. It's not that they don't find the crime bad. They can never let these things go to

trial in the event that all of the stuff that you and I are talking about right here may get tangentially mentioned. So what do you do? You cover up you minimize, you make it go away. We have multiple child porn cases, which have been pled by members of the intelligence community, specifically under pressure from CIA to the FBI saying,

whoa, this can't go to open court. We have multiple documented instances, as you pointed out in the Irish case, where intelligence assets are permitted to get away with the most heinous things, specifically to make sure that a larger national security mission is not in danger. And that's why the two work together.

And that's also why we spend lot of time here on the intelligence question because that's what enables this which as you were talking about with the island if any of us you know did one 50th of what geoffrey epsine did go and read the original indictment you can go read it now as part of the epstein files release we're going to jail for life there's no non-prosecution agreement there's no we are going we are dead we are going to you know fcii whatever forever we're never going to breathe the light of day and yet you're you're He gets Palm Beach, you know, very good time, gets to leave on the week at work release, all of this. There's even some evidence he may have been victimizing people even while he was on work release,

has to register as a sex offender, which is basically fake whenever you're ultra rich like Jeffrey Epstein. And he goes right back to doing what he was doing the entire time. What are the interesting things is, you know, somebody actually asked me in another interview, you know, wouldn't the intelligence community have people kind of on file? Like, why do they have to recruit a guy and develop a guy like Epstein to do something like this? And I think the answer to that is that things did change after the mid-70s. You know, it got like the laws and rules and oversight of the intelligence community, specifically the CIA did change to the point where, you know, it wasn't a world where they could just send CIA agent Kermit Roosevelt over to this country to go from that.

Like, they weren't, they were being watched over much more closely than they, had been in the past. And so they had to figure out ways around that, ways to do these same things that didn't involve sending a guy who has a CIA, you know, cafeteria ID card in his pocket when he goes and does this stuff. And so that's when you see the proliferation of, you know, all of these NGOs, the National Endowment for Democracy, all these other things that we now kind of associate as arms of intelligence. That's when all these things proliferated. And so, whereas before, you know, you probably, the CIA probably, you know, before. before there was all this, all of this oversight, such as it was, but, you know, it was different, for sure, that they could probably call the president of a bank and say, hey, we need to do X, Y, and Z. It's national security, like, help us out here. And he might be able to do it. That, you know, that changed after the mid-70s. You know, they really had to get creative. And they didn't necessarily have networks in place and people in place that could do all that stuff. And so they had to find guys like Epstein. And where is the, like, the best place to find them? Well, you know, go, go.

to Bear Stearns, who was the guy who just got bumped out for regulatory violations for doing exactly the kind of thing that we need somebody to do. I mean, that's who you're going to go look for, you know? It's not going to be the highest flying, most popular trader at Bear Stearns who, you know, that's not the guy you're going to go to. You're going to go to this guy with questionable character who's not going to, and by the way, somebody who, it turns out, you know, and this is one of the more interesting open questions to me. I can say somebody who's a apparently pretty expendable, like in the sense of him personally. And, you know, he, like, he had a lot of connections. He had a lot of people. He was very useful person. But, man, it really

does seem like when, when that usefulness ran its course or became more of a liability than, you know, than a benefit, he was, he was cast aside pretty, pretty, like, well, I don't know if, I do have, like, the real question of why in 2019 was he re-arrested? You know, it wasn't just some intrepid prosecutor at DOJ said, oh, I think I can, you know, get this guy now. I have the evidence. There was very clearly something going on where they, you know,

they've decided to move on, on this asset when they just had, they just, they hadn't before, you know. And the fact that, again, the fact that Barr was the AG, who, I mean, probably knew who this guy was by name, I would imagine. And the fact that Trump was president, somebody who knew Epstein for many, many years.

It's hard to ignore those, although it seems like just about every president except for the Bush's new. And so, but yeah, do you have any, do you have any thoughts on that on why you decide to put a trigger? My theory is that they got caught off guard. So what happened is, remember that the re-arrest happens after the original non-prosecution agreement is ruled invalid, which, by the way, it took way too long for that to even happen because it violated their civil rights of the victims.

is because they were never notified of the non-prosecution agreement. Remember, all Alex Acosta had to do, the victims didn't have to agree to it. All he had to do is be like, hey, guys, this is what I'm doing. They never did that. They never did that.

They violated under the federal civil rights of the victims. So it's ruled that the non-prosecuting agreement is no longer valid. This blows up the whole thing. So this is why it was an accident, I think. I don't think that they knew any of that was going to happen. It also happened at the height of Me Too.

Well, what happens then? Well, now of the non-prosecutions agreement, whoa, we need to, all of that indictment story, that's got to go away. Now there's a lot of legal exposure that happens here. The re-arrest is basically just retreading some of the case that was already litigated back from the early odds. And so they come in, they do the arrest. And then what I think is also really heinous is that at this point, it's been long enough,

and you also have many of the stories, you know, we have social media and all of that, et cetera as well. where even in the open source file and the knowledge is so horrible that at this point, he's going down. There's no question. Eventually, he dies there in federal prison. Again, I think he was killed.

Reasonable people can disagree. I think there's just too much evidence from Michael Bodden's autopsy report to the more recent Epstein files released which shows somebody going into the cell to the security cameras being down to the after action report, which I think is total bullshit.

I just think that there's no way that this wasn't a murder of some time. Security being asleep. Right. People are asleep. I mean, the cameras are broken. The ones that they say are released

aren't the actual. You know, I mean, look, put it together, people. Like, you know, we can only be, you know, so willfully blind for a certain period of time. By the way, even in terms of the photos that were released, some of the photos actually have his own death, you can actually see his corpse and then working on him. You can go and look at it for yourself.

You know, it doesn't look like suicide to me. You have to believe, you know, in terms of using a sheet, actually see the marks on the neck. I encourage you to go and read and look at the open source documentation so that you're not just taking my word for it. Because I don't think a reasonable person could look at that and say, oh yeah, that was clearly made in the official government explanation. But you put it all together and you very clearly see somebody who highly specializes in money. And you know, I want to double click on what you said there, Daryl, about post church committee is this is why Iran Contra is such

a scandal. Because Iran Contra is what they were just doing for years. That was modus operandi. pre-church committee. But afterwards, they're like, oh, we got to figure out a way, we've got to sell them these things, and we need the money, and then we can make sure that we can funnel the arms, all surreptitiously. And yes, it was known at the highest levels of the government, but it all has to be done in a very inconvenient way. But like you just said, it's actually not that easy to wire hundreds of millions of dollars across the globe. It's just not. You know, even look at all of the, you and I can't even go to the bank and withdraw $9,900 without triggering a suspicious activity report. This is a highly finessed, difficult operation that needs to take place, especially in the 1980s,

whenever he comes into play. This is at the highest, highest, highest levels of global finance. And that is why he was so useful. And then you develop that skill set over years and years and years. And that's why he's not expendable. This is not something that an ordinary person can do. I actually think you could probably count on, you know, two hands. The number of people in the world who are highly specialized actually good at the time.

this capable of doing this. And also all throughout the history of U.S. intelligence operations, we have cutouts. I mean, I'm trying to think about ways that normal people may be able to relate to this. What's the bridge of spies? Remember that movie where Tom Hanks' character? He's a lawyer. He doesn't work for the CIA, but they need him to go over there and basically go to East Berlin. The whole time he's being managed by CIA, and the whole reason why the CIA can't go over there is because he's a private citizen, and it's all cutouts. That's the way that all these, never was there a negotiation sitting down of a U.S. government official and a Soviet official.

It's a lawyer and then, you know, a KGB guy pretending to be an ambassador. This goes back, you know, many years in the way that these types of operations all seem to come to, you know, basically become public whenever we eventually learn about it. But this modus operandi is very important and his behavior, his depravity.

So he was sick. And that is the thing where, you know, one of the things I looked at in some of his hacked emails is his Amazon purchases. We're talking sex toys every other day. It's psychotic. We're talking about, like, this was a person who had an affliction and addiction, like a genuine addiction, a sickness, which is enabled. You see it in all the photos.

But, you know, even in the private, even when he's in his off time, I mean, he's reading Lolita, like he has a first edition copy of Lolita at his house in 2019. from the Amazon purchase, he bought two or three copies. He bought an annotated copy. I mean, it's genuine obsession, like an obsession, an inordinate amount of time. These creepy sex toys and photos, recreations. You see videos of him chasing girls around in kitchens, forcibly kissing. There's some photos of that.

And yeah, I mean, I think what disgusts me, Daryl and Scott, is just how many people in power are okay with this. And it just raises a question. Like, is this still happening? you know, because like you said, I'm just, I'm one of those people. I know a decent number of people in power, but maybe that there's a code at a certain point where they look at you and they're like, no, he's not the type of person, you know, that would be going along with this. Is this all this in a parallel universe? Like, I have no idea.

I hear stories. I certainly do, but even at this level, it's such a funny tweet where the guy said, Woody, oh, see, I forgot his name. Woody Allen is in the, is in the files. But I have troll believing he's the kind of guy who would. cheat on his daughter. I thought that was a pretty good one. Sorry, Darrow, and you were going to say, I keep thinking.

I keep thinking about when they took down Madison Cawthorne, the guy who was briefly in Congress, you know, and he's for a minute there looked like he might be this kind of next star. He's, like, disabled. He's got, like, the sympathy play on that. He's a good-looking guy, you know, and all these things. And he comes out and says, you know, you think you'd think about it. There are low-level people, you know, a Thomas Man. that the president hates and wants to get rid of who's not going to be gone.

He's going to stick around, despite the fact that the Israeli lobby and the president of the United States won him God, he's going to stick around. You know, Marjorie Taylor Green probably would have won re-election despite the fact that the same forces warned her gone. There's probably Democrats who, you know, who are just like, ugh, like, why do we really have to have this Ilhan Omar albatross around her neck, you know, but they can't, you know, but she sticks around. you see like Madison Cawthorne, he comes out and says, you know, I've been asked to go to these cocaine-fueled sex parties.

Yes. Gone. I mean, he is gone. They acts him like immediately. And like when you see stuff like that, it makes you kind of wonder. Like, you know, and you would know way, way more than I would about this saga. But I do know some people who've worked in DC journalism. One guy worked at Daily Call or a couple others.

And they would tell me like they would get there. And you would think like that that's a Democrat thing or it's sort of like a super elite thing. It's like, no, like I would go to these conservative parties, like, you know, a bunch of conservative media guys. And there's cocaine everywhere. There's like all kinds of stuff going on. And, you know, I think to normal sort of everyday Americans who are just kind of following this stuff, that's really shocking. And I think that when you're in that environment long enough, though, it becomes just like anytime, it becomes not shocking. You know, shocking to somebody who's like a normal operator in DC might be that they were underage.

That might be like, you know, for a normal person who's like, you're pushing it there. But there's a lot of people who are, you know, even embedded into that world enough that that's kind of like, yeah, you shouldn't do it or whatever. It's sort of a vice though, you know, like smoking cigarettes or something. And it takes just more and more and more to really get a reaction out of you. And, you know, when you have these networks in place that, well, you know, you know, you know, you talk about like when the CIA started setting all this, all these, all these back channels and side channels up, take care of stuff they can previously do probably more overtly

and do themselves, you know, that necessitates working with people who are not, you know, mother Teresa, you know, that's just how it's going to work. And eventually a lot of these, you know, I mean, just a lot of those people are going to have pathological personalities that can eventually lead to them becoming more of a liabilities than their worth. And so you look at all those people who were involved. Adnan Khashoggi is a good example. I mean, this dude was, you think Epstein was powerful. I mean, this dude was at the center of things, like really, really powerful. But he had a disordered personality in a lot of the same, in lifestyle, a lot of the same ways that Epstein did. You'd be probably more extreme given just his, you know, the sort of the specific

worlds that he moved in. And eventually, like, you know, that just starts to become, I mean, you said, like, I think it's actually interesting, right? Like, to me, Everybody who thinks Epstein was killed in his prison cell, usually I think he was killed because, you know, the Clintons and all these other people that he had dirt on, you know, they're like, wow, this is going to be bad. Like, we have to, we have to do something here. It might be just much more, you know, much sort of, I guess, simpler or more distributed as far as responsibility goes like that, where, you know, these networks and the intelligence agencies are looking at this guy and they're like, man, this stuff is like, we can't just throw out these charges this time. Like we can't go to him. You know, he was in Israel for a few months before he went to jail in 2008 in the spring of that year. And he was thinking about staying there. And it's very obvious that he got convinced that like, look, you're going to be fine. Just go there.

We've got it set up so that, and I'm even saying this was the Israelis that we're doing. It's probably both sides of the Atlanta, you know, or both sides doing this. Telling him, look, just go to your time. It's going to be easier for you. It's going to be easier for us. You know, this is just too much of a liability. If you, this high-profile billionaire who gets caught, you know, dozens of underage girls on there and you flee to Israel's going to be a huge problem for us with, you know, and yeah, generally we don't extradite or whatever, but sometimes we do, you know, they didn't let Meyer Lansky stay there because we were threatening to withhold a bunch of F-4s that they really, really wanted, you know. And so there are limits to that.

And that they, you know, he's pretty clearly convinced to go back and just suck it up and do his time. But then in 2019, you know, they were looking at it and just saying, you know, they were looking at it and just, There's just, it's like you go back 2008. And yeah, the page six knew Jeffrey Epstein was and all that, but your average American did not follow the thing at all. 2019, I mean, this is like every major news channel just, you know, clustered across. And they're saying, you know, we can't just sweep this under the rug. And if we let this guy get into a courtroom and start talking, like, who knows what is going

to come out of his mouth, you know, and be put on the record. And so we got to do something here. And, you know, I think that's a, I mean, look, you got to remember, like, it is hard for ordinary people to, like, cross the bridge of thought and realize that these people operate according to different rules. Think about, like, you know, the idea that, like, oh, this guy's a problem for us. Let's have him kill. Well, that's, like, stuff that. Yeah, it's crazy. Right. That mob bosses do in the movies, right, or whatever. But, you know, go ask the reporter who put out the Panama papers about that, you know, dead in a car. bomb. These people don't play games, you know, at this level. These people are, you're talking about, I mean, go through all of human history. And you say, what would people do to wear the crown, to be the king, to, you know, the answer is just about anything. Anything. And here you're talking about control. Trangle your brothers. Yes, exactly. So in here, you're talking about a competition, in intra-elite competition for control, you know, if not personal possession, but control of trillion, of dollars in resources and of the global empire, you know, and there are, you know, there are no limits to what the people who get that close to that kind of power and who have spent their lives really kind of dreaming about it, what they would do to achieve it and

then to maintain and preserve it. All right. Yeah, really was it. And I guess this could be for, well, this is stupid, but I do want to kind of check it off because there's got to be some kind of valuable comment here about the accusation that actually knows, see, look, and honestly, this is what everybody's parents are watching on TV right now. This guy was working for Vladimir Putin in Russia.

So. Yeah, yeah, he wasn't working. Okay, here's the funny part. He was only making real contact with the Russians on the behest of the Israelis. So even if you want to explore the Russian connection, it's an Israeli connection. It starts with Israel.

And also, let's even talk about the Israel thing. To say that Epstein loved Israelians, real. It's just not really true. On the Russia thing, they say, well, he was getting a lot of women from there, if not girls. Yeah, exactly. Because of shady financial networks and a long history, unfortunately, of human trafficking and, you know, exploitation. And yes, a lot of those wire transfers were specifically for these purposes. Now, you know, again, to the whole Russian thing, he actually was trying to use some of his influence to get meetings with Putin. But again, if you actually read and the totality of all of his work, it was on behalf of Israeli security state and

of Aoud Barak. And so Aud Barak, by the way, is it a scandal to anybody who knows anything about Israel? Daryl, why don't you enlighten us? Netanyahu and Putin are quite close. Last time I checked, there's a huge Russian population last time I checked in Israel. They have a very different view of Russia and of the Russian question of the Russian question in Israel than they do in America. So it wouldn't even be a scandal in Israel of being and trying to make connections with the Russians. They have literally a connection going back all the way to all of those emigrays who came after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And that's why they maintain very close relations with their... I think he even says in there.

He wants to encourage Russians to convert to Judaism and move to Israel. Yes. Right. Well, yeah, I mean, the kind of the shocking thing about Epstein, and this actually did surprise me. I did not really understand his commitment to a bit and or maybe his belief in, like, actual supremacy. I mean, you see pretty consistently emails, for example, well, someone asked him about the tax legislation. Did they close the tax loopholes? He said, yes, they did for the goyam. It's like, wow. Or, you know, there's emails that come through

in some of the emails where they talk about what level of Jewish blood do you have and whether that correlates to your IQ. They talked consistently, like kind of denigrating about goyam, about non-Jews. He uses at times, like his own Judaism and Jewish identity as a way to connect with some of these other billionaires. That actually was one of the more shocking aspects to me. I always assumed that he was just this, you know, amorphous, amoral bagman who at times would use his Jewish identity for political or, you know, financial purposes. But this appears to have been like a real belief, you know, in his.

And at one point, you know, he's denigrating Bill Gates for his like naive Christian belief that all humans are created equal. you're like, wow, man, I mean, this is really sick. And that was the one part of it, which actually did shock me, was his real apparent belief in, I mean, I guess for lack of a better word, like Jewish supremacy. Yeah, and, you know, you talk about the sex trafficking networks in the, you know, in Ukraine and Russia that made them so prominent in Epstein's game. And, you know, the organized crime units in those countries that would be in control of all that stuff, you know, people hear the Russian mob and they think it's like the Italian mob or the Jewish mob where it's a bunch of Italians and a bunch of Jews. It really is not like that. There's a lot of Russians. There's a lot of Jews. That's why a lot of these Russian guys who get in trouble for stuff, where do they live now? They live free in Tel Aviv, you know, a lot of them. And so there's a lot of, you know, just Armenians, Georgians, et cetera. It's a very multi-ethnic. actually like mafia.

And so you have like a, you know, a lot of these, a lot of these connections that sort of exist across borders that he was able to take advantage of. I mean, yeah, I think, well, actually, we only got Saga for a few more minutes, Scott. So you got anything else for him? Yeah, well, so I wanted to ask about David Ellison and what was in there, because this is the guy who is the,

this is the father or the son of Oracle that's taken over all our media right now. Yeah. This is the son. Yes, that's right. Yeah, we don't know what Ton Scott. We just see a wire transfer. I think it's for $25 million. I need to check after this. But it's significant enough wire transfer. By the way, this would be happening at a time when David is not involved at Skydance or any at the current CBS news. But it does genuinely, you know, there's a question here. Like, hey, what's this money for? What deal are you guys working on? Is it related to Oracle? Are you working on behalf of Larry Ellson, your father, who is one of the largest donors, you know, to pro IDF causes? Right. And has long himself to committed Zionist. Is that how you guys? Matt, how did you all know each other? These are all interesting questions.

And man, got to say something about Chomsky because, you know, even though he's a communist, bro, that one heard. He's been a big influence on me and like even in my writing and everything. And I was really proud, actually, that his very last word on Afghanistan in his last book is to read my book.

And then, but now here he is telling Epstein. No one in Epstein supporters says read Scott Horton's book. Yeah. Yeah, that's brutal. Yeah, I agree, Scott. You want to know all about this. It's Reed Coburn and Horton.

And I'm like, oh, yeah, it's not only that. It's me and Patrick Coburn in the same breath. But yeah, and then here he's telling him how to survive the public relations fallout from being convicted of abusing a 14-year-old girl. That's the kind of thing that out here in the world in the suburbs, that'll cause horrific violence. Somebody touches a 14. year old girl, they get strangle.

What do we? Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Your impetus is not, oh, let's handle this in the legal system. Right? You're like, no.

It's a, you are. Since you're, you know. I got to admit, I have that. Dude, I'll tell you this. But I never had friends who hurt children. You know what I mean? God dang. Yeah.

It's sick. And look, the Chomsky thing, I don't know. I don't know where it even comes from. Perhaps he cultivated him in the same way, cultivated all these MIT. assets. Chomsky saw it as helping out a friend. Remember, at one point, there's money exchanged and involved, so he genuinely may have been dependent or he was useful to him at a time, and so he felt like he had to lend him the only expertise he had, which is linguistics. Steven Pinker, another one,

I'm not saying I admire Pinker, but guys, I read this memo where Pinker uses his linguistic skills to analyze the specific words of human trafficking statutes and to trying to pick it apart on behalf of Epstein's legal defense. And I'm like, this is the guy who's, you know, a massively successful, you know, pop psychologist, like, you know, liberality and actually we're living in the best time ever. Isn't that the same guy who did they? Oh, my God. Wait, this is the same guy that called Tucker Carlson a Nazi for interviewing Daryl in an article

last week, isn't it? Pinker? Did he? Did Pinker say that? Yeah. Oh, I'd have to check. I'm not sure. Okay, well, that's kind of surprising. I've lost count, so I don't really keep track anymore.

Right. Well, they can add me to that. They can add me to that list now. I've always defended you. I want to understand. I saw this thing, man. I can't stop because I got a very visual memory here. Wired magazine online did a thing where they showed the heat map of the cell phone data of all the people flying down to Epstein Island.

And here's where they take a ship across from the marina. And here's where they go to a helicopter pad instead. And it goes and he tracks and he shows where they're from all the most fancy pants places in America. including the Hamptons and Aspen and Austin, Texas, and all kinds of work. So here's a bunch of, and of course, you know, out Silicon Valley. But it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people. Now, Wired says, look, we're not telling you who these people are.

And I guess there are ways of finding out, but they go, we can't like make it look like we know all these people are guilty of any crime necessarily. But you're talking about hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of American elites, maybe thousands of them, of rich and powerful and influential people who went to that island. Now, if all they were doing was partying with, you know, prostitutes in their 20s,

well, then shame on them and all of that. But it seems like we need to know just how old were the girls that they were with there. You know what I mean? Like that seems to be a major part, especially if you're talking about, you know, trafficking women or girls or whoever, or in volume from Eastern Europe somewhere.

Like, who's checking the IDs of these people? And who all, like how many and to what degree do we really have our elite, like people who aren't necessarily in the emails, but who spent real time there and doing what? You know, I think it's fair to assume. Well, Scott, I know you're a libertarian, but I'm not. And by the way, it is a crime just to bring even, you know, of age women across the globe to bring,

to be paid for sex. And I support that law. I think it's deeply exploitative, gross. And I don't think that there's anything really consensual about it. And then, yeah, I mean, that's my final kind of thing. Well, I guess I would say it's a lot more criminal to have sex with someone who is under the age of 18.

Yes. I'm with you. Or younger. 100%. But I'm saying that's also illegal, right? But that's also illegal. And really criminal compared to someone who's 26. And this is her job.

You know, there's such a thing is that. Right. There is a difference. There is a difference. And reasonable people like us can disagree. My final word is just to kind of say that the way that the most ordinary person with no connection to power who hasn't lived here for 15 years like I have, your suspicion about the world is correct. And even to someone like me who's always thought that, it's shocking. It's shocking to see that the world is run from St. Barts during Christmas. Don't forget, that's when they all congregate over there with their yachts. And what is, what day is Elon emailing Elon or emailing Epstein about the best parties?

Christmas morning, 6 a.m. They're all in the same place, the global jet set class. And then our suspicion of it's not just these crazy parties are going to is that they're actually running the world from these, you know, different places and what you were just talking about, Scott, the Hamptons and Aspen and all this, it's actually true. And even though I knew that, and I've seen it, you know, kind of up close with my own eyes in my years here in D.C., there is a whole other level of, you know, a playing field, like you called a player, which I think is important just to know. And so everybody keep up the pressure shows like this, many others. It's really important because it actually worked. I mean, I can't believe I'm sitting here seven years later after my very

first video and actually even being able to read all of this stuff and color in all the lines. all it did was basically confirm almost everything that we thought. If anything, it took it even much further about his connections to the global O'League. Yeah. Yeah, there needs to be like a continued push, not just on the Epstein thing, but, you know, what this stuff really goes to is like me interested in this as a history guy. You know, I'm very much, I'm very much interested in it from the angle of, you know, 50 years from now, 100 years from now, when people are picking up history books,

when Americans are reading about the history of their country, they need to not be reading complete bullshit. They need to be reading. We have a right to our own history. We have a right to know about this stuff. And then just the more contemporary political side of it, we still at least have the trappings of a democratic country, a republic here,

where the people are supposed to gather information, discuss it amongst themselves, and make decisions on the direction of the state. And with these emails and all the different, files really show you. Again, I don't want to say that the sexual stuff is a side show or anything. It's definitely not. It's important because it goes to the, you know, the question of like, why it is that the people who are deciding who we go to war with are okay with, you know, a guy who's having sex with children and they know about it. Like, that's important. But, you know,

in a sort of, like, even if that stuff didn't exist and you had these files, you know, what you're looking at is just dead proof and widespread just across the board proof over the course of many, many years that the idea we have of how decisions are supposed to be made under our system of government has no attachment to reality whatsoever. Yes. Yes. And that all of the things that are put out for you to discuss and vote on, that just, that is, that is a front, you know, and things are being done behind the scenes for reasons that you'll never get to know about, decisions being made by people whose names you'll never hear, which Epstein is a guy you'd never would have heard of.

If he just kept him above 18 years old, you'd have never heard his name. And even people who are interested in this stuff, who study a Rand Contra would have never heard his name. If he could have just kept it above 18 years, well, there's a lot of people out there who are engaged in this stuff who do keep it above 18, you know, and they're out there doing the same things, controlling our lives in the, in the direction of our country and the way that our country is going to be remembered in history who are not accountable to us in any way, you know, and that's, that's the thing that is

really worth holding on to, I think, going forward. Yeah. Well, so, guys, I got a jump, but thank you very much for having. Hey, thanks very much, Saga, for doing it. Thanks, Saga. And yeah, Daryl, I'm glad you that you said that at the, to close there, there's also a great clip of Saga from Breaking Point. where he's got a great rant about how over in Europe,

there is some accountability, and even like some of these private companies, some CEOs are being made to step down out of basically embarrassment in a couple of places. But you got a British Lord scalp. That's pretty good. National Security Advisor in Slovakia. And a couple of the people,

I had a list here of a few people who got fired. That guy, Atia, I don't really know anything about him, but apparently he was pretty influential, Prince Andrew, of course. But there's Lutnik. He hasn't been scalped yet. but he should, right? He had this whole thing swearing.

He met that creep one time, and then I said to my old lady, boy, let's never go near him again. And then now we know that that's an outright lie and that he was sucking up successful. So that was where Sager had that great clip before was just, so where's the accountability here? And it goes to what you were saying about, you know, that congressman, that freshman congressman that got ran out of there for telling the truth. Like John Kirooku, the one CIA guy who went to prison for torture, was the guy who told the truth. about it. Not that he had tortured anyone. He told the truth about some other torturers who never got in trouble. Where what does that really say about us, Mr. Historian? Where we're that far into the darkness where the people who tell the truth are punished in order that the guilty may go free.

And then, as you said, they had to essentially, you know, betray Epstein this time. They just murdered him rather than let him be prosecuted and let anyone else be all accountable with him. So that's not really accountability when he's just lynched in his cell by the bad guys themselves, by his own friends, you know, presumably, obviously, you know. But so, I don't know, is that like a certain point on the timeline of the fall of your empire when things like this are exposed? But no one has the mechanism even in a crisis like this to course correct? Well, you want to overthrow the Clintons? All you got is Trump? Epstein's other friend to overthrow them with, you know?

Yeah, it's not encouraging. I mean, I think as Sagar alluded to, I mean, you do see this happen with elite classes over time, you know, where just the hedonic temptations of their, that come with their level of wealth and power over time become too much. And the whole elite class just gets consumed with that, you know? And really the only way that you even avoid it is over any, over any period of time, is you almost have to have a sort of some kind of cult, whether religion or ideology.

You have to have like the, you know, the cult of like the old, like the old aristocracy in the middle ages in Europe, had this cult of chivalry that really was important for a while. But once it became something less than this all-consuming, you know, cult that if you ran a foul of, of these ideals, then you'd be held socially accountable by your own peers. Once it fell even a little bit short of that, then people did what people do when they have unlimited power and wealth.

They just took advantage of it to satisfy their impulses and their urges, you know? And I mean, you see like in the British Empire, the British gentry in the late 1900s, early 18, early 1900s, you know, all these people were, hooking up with Alistair Crowley, doing all this occult sex magic stuff. And it's just something that's very, very common. And, you know, you, yeah, that's what we're watching happen here.

You know, and it's just, and I think that it's been, it's really been helped by the fact that, you know, once the Cold War started and nuclear weapons kind of made war between great powers a lot more difficult to initiate, war sort of transferred to the information and clandestine operations realm and everything that the government does just about became an official state secret. You know, I mean, everything. Like, there's almost, there's virtually nothing that the government in general believes that we have a right to know. You can go through the processes and request things and this and that. Like, we have these certain things set up. But in terms of, like, if they don't want to tell you, they just don't have to tell you. It just doesn't, I mean,

And that's something that they saw as a, you know, a necessity during the Cold War. But that kind of secrecy, it really allowed the creation of this ecosystem, this power ecosystem behind the scenes that now runs everything that is, you know, they're very far gone, I think, just morally. And the thing is, like, we kind of already know that in a sense of like, yeah, they're willing to destroy countries. They're willing to, you know, but it actually becomes a little bit more, a little bit easier to understand how they make decisions like that so flippantly when you realize that they can

brush off the rape of some children by one of their buddies, you know? Yeah, indeed. All right, well, look, man, we should cut bait. Well, we're only this far over time here. Thanks for doing the show, everybody. Please check out our good friend Matt Sersley at agoristaxadvice.com. You're trying to run a business. You're trying to keep the national government from picking your pocket and spending all your

money, killing some toddler over in Palestine somewhere. So you go to Matt Agarist and Matt Sersley, the Agarist tax advice, and he will make sure that you only pay what you absolutely have to and not one nickel more since pennies don't exist anymore. They inflated that way. And also check out the Great Academy, Scott Horton Academy.com. Learn all about Middle East stuff as well as the new Cold War with Russia and all about Christian Zionism and all about all kinds of great other stuff.

And then also don't forget to go to Scott Horton.org. And that'll take you to Moondose Artisan coffee, and you'll get Scott Horton-flavored coffee, which is really good. And that's why people keep buying it over and over again and tweeting to me about, and that is some pretty goddamn good coffee. Just go to Scott Horton.org slash coffee for that

and help keep me and Daryl and business here doing this show. And thank you, sir, for your time. Great to be with you again and see you next week. Always a pleasure. This has been Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton. Be sure to like and subscribe to help us beat the propaganda algorithm. Go follow at Provoked underscore show on Ex and YouTube. And tune in next time for more Provoked.