Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton - EP:5 - The Mosquito Protocol: When Power Has No Shame: Genocide, Cover-Ups, and Zero Accountability

Episode Date: July 26, 2025

Hey folks, welcome back to Provoked. In this episode, we dive into some of the ugliest truths behind a few major global conflicts—most of all, what's happening right now in Gaza. Let’s get this straight right off the bat—it’s not a war. That word gives the impression of two sides in some kind of fair fight. What we’re seeing in Gaza is nothing like that. It’s a one-sided assault. Humanitarian organizations are reporting that Palestinians are literally starving to death—starving—while aid is being blocked. Israel tries to deflect blame by saying Hamas intercepts the aid, but when you dig into it, those claims are massively overblown. At the same time, they’re bombing the actual distribution sites. And then there’s this thing called the “Mosquito Protocol” that came out in Israeli media. It’s horrifying—soldiers using Palestinian civilians, including children and elderly people, as human shields to clear buildings that might be booby-trapped. And they still accuse Hamas of using civilians as shields? It’s a textbook case of projection. It gets darker. Israeli leaders aren’t even pretending anymore. Netanyahu’s telling his people to treat Palestinians like Amalek—that’s a biblical tribe that was ordered to be wiped out entirely. That’s not just some ancient metaphor. That’s a call for genocide. We also dig into the way modern propaganda works. It’s not about censoring everything—it's about overwhelming people. Flood the zone with so much noise, so many stories, that even the most horrific realities—like children dying from hunger—just blend into the background. It becomes another headline people scroll past. That’s the real danger. In the past, regimes at least tried to hide their crimes. Now, they’re bold about it, because they know people are desensitized, distracted, and unsure what’s real. It’s all by design. We also get into the Oklahoma City bombing and the Epstein case—two stories where the official version just doesn’t add up. These are entry points for people to start questioning the system itself. Back in the Cold War, you had a few network anchors telling everyone what to believe. Now it's chaos—millions of voices, total fragmentation—and still, somehow, the truth is just as buried. It’s all managed differently now, through noise instead of silence. We close things out with updates on Ukraine, where Russian forces keep advancing while protests break out in Kyiv, and Syria, where it’s still a tangled mess of shifting alliances and endless war. Across all these conflicts, there’s one thing in common—zero accountability for the people with the most power. It’s a heavy episode, but if you want to understand the world as it really works—not the sanitized version—we’re laying it all out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thank you. All right. Hello, welcome the show. How's going? Hey, yo. I'm Scott Horton, and he's Daryl Cooper. This is our show Provote. I guess this will be episode five. For two weeks running, the number one ranked new show on Apple Podcasts,

which is pretty good, I would say. He is Martyr Made. That's his big deal. He's Martyr Made on Twitter, and he's Martyr Made on Substack, and Martyr Made is the name of his great podcast. He also co-hosts the Unraveling with Jaco Willink, at least from time to time. A bunch of great ones in the past there. But especially the Martyr Made podcast.

That's his big deal. And me, my thing is, I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute. I'm the editorial director of anti-war.com. I'm the host of the Scott Horton show. I got 6,000 interviews going back to 2003, proven how great I've always been on everything. And I wrote a bunch of books, which you can see behind me if you're watching the YouTube version of this. Enough already is the one about the Middle East and provoked is the one about the wars in, or the Ukraine war and the lead up to it there in Eastern Europe. Before that, even though this one's over, if you're into this kind of thing or if you fought in the thing like a guy in my email box yesterday,

then you might want to read Fool's errand about Afghanistan as well. That's basically what my thing is. And so I'm here to talk about the bad news with my buddy. So how are you? I'm all right. I think the last time we talked, I was just about to go in to do my Epstein interview with Tucker. And how did that go? Went, you know, it was all kind of a blur since I was running on about 40 hours and no sleep.

But I'm told that I did all right, didn't embarrass myself too badly. And as far as the podcast itself, man, it's blowing up. I mean, across all platforms last I heard, it was up like 12, 13 million downloads. So, like, it's really blowing up, which is nice to see, you know. It's nice to, I think, have something out there. Like, I didn't cover everything that could have been covered. Obviously, it's a big story, and there's a lot of strings to pull on. But I think I laid out kind of the basic case that there's something going on here that we deserve answers about.

And I think I put it all kind of laid out in one place. You know, a lot of people told me they're sharing it with their, you know, with their dad or whatever, who doesn't, you know, he's sort of a normy political guy or non-phersonable. political guy. They got this like one-stop shop now that they can send people to kind of go get rid-filled on that issue. So that's good. Yep. And look, as far as a, you know, I saw a thing, there was a thing in the Mother Jones, someone sent me where they say that I'm a conspiracy cuck for saying that Epstein may have been connected to Mossad and I was on this guy's podcast that they don't like is the only reason they brought me up anyway. But then I'm reading in the New York Times today, there's an op-ed where the guy wrote a book about it. And,

said i've been covering depth epstein for decades here nine questions we need the answers to and including which all intelligence agencies was he connected to domestic and or foreign these are absolutely legitimate questions according to the op-ed page of the new york times paper record today so you're still a kook darrell for saying what you say but when they say it okay good if it hurts the republicans fine let's see whoever it hurts because they're connected to geoffrey epstein and we find out the truth of their relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? I think we are all just fine with whatever consequences those people have to suffer, whoever they may be. Yeah, I mean, I speak for everyone when I pronounce that. Yeah, I, you know, thank goodness. They think they can

connect it to Trump and the Republicans, or we never hear anything about it. So I'll take it, you know, willing to sacrifice every single one of the members of the GOP to get the truth on this. So What do they have a mean to me? No. All right. Well, so speaking of Israeli spies and the things that they do, well, or the Israeli state, the war in the, not the war. What do you call it? The genocide.

I just call it. When I bring it up or mention it in a statement, I just say the assault on Gaza, something like that. You can't call it a war. You know, it's insulting to call it a war. One of the things that really pissed me off. And kind of got me emotional about this whole situation at the very beginning was all of these people coming out and trying to compare what the Israelis are doing in Gaza to what U.S. forces did in, you know, Iraq or Afghanistan or something. And like, I'm the last person in the world or maybe second to last next to you to defend either of those wars. the conduct of our forces is not comparable to IDF and it's a freaking insult to our guys to

like even to even intimate that it's ridiculous i mean what's going on there you know i mean look uh there's no heavy combat going on you know there's not daily rockets being fired from gaza and southern israel and they're just sort of trying to make it stop and you know there's there's a lot of just hardcore, stressful, heavy combat situations and, you know, sometimes civilians get killed or whatever. It's just, that has not been going on for months and months and months now. I mean, and they're still just killing dozens of non-combatants a day at a time when they're starving these people to death now. I think last I saw 111 people have died from starvation related causes. And, you know, yeah, it's just, this is not a normal war. It's not the

the kind of war that, you know, a lot of people, I was actually talking to somebody, a buddy of mine yesterday, who, you know, tried to make the point that, well, no, it actually is a normal war. You know, the, what the U.S. was forces, the way they were behaving their level of discipline in Iraq or Afghanistan that you're talking about, that was not normal. This is just normal war. And I'm like, well, whatever, man. Like, you know what? Like, we should not, we shouldn't be associating ourselves with this anymore. And, uh, you know, it's, um, that's a funny way to rationalize it, right? Like, yeah, man, the rules of warfare, the Geneva conventions and an attempt. Ever live in this con? Yeah. Yeah, seriously. The, the attempt of the, of Western powers to put

some kind of limitations on, on, wait, nah, come on. That's just naive. Yeah. I mean, you know, the rate at which we are just burning through the credibility of every international institution that we built up in the post-war era to try to to try to serve as intermediaries so that countries could try to resolve their differences at a level now you're acting like now you're acting like a pro-Israel propagandist trying to convince me that the silver lining is worth it but no um yeah look it the thing is and i guess I'm just rationalizing, man. I keep thinking that people must somehow talk themselves out of the knowledge of what's really happening here,

where, hey, look, you can't just deliberately inflict a famine on someone, or that makes you the bad guy and what in the world, like, if there's got to be, if everybody knows, then there's got to be a consensus to stop it. And if there's got to be a consensus to stop it, it must be that everybody doesn't know, or that they're just so inculcated with propaganda they just can't get over the fact that the Israelis got to be the good guys or else why would we be on their side and so it's just baked in that that's just how it's got to be and so they just can't hear it that no they fight like barbarians this is there this is an eastern oriental culture

that does not share our values at all just because netanyahu has white skin and speaks new york english kind of you know that's not good enough that's not good enough that That's just PR. That says Barra. But the reality is, I mean, most of these people are Russians, right? Like, they fight like Russians. Well, they care about Palestinians, dude, nothing. It's like, am I repeat myself from last week?

It's like when the Vietnamese fight the Hmong tribesmen. You just kill them all. You know, this is tribe versus tribe. The women and children go to. Nobody cares about some Swiss office where somebody signed some parchment, you know? Yeah, and it's crazy because, you know, you get these people. Half the time, you know, I, maybe I'm just naive. Like, I want to believe they're bots and, you know, being run out of Tel Aviv or something.

But I think, you know, I see a hell of a lot of them that are definitely not. They're real people. And they're not people who live in Tel Aviv who lost three cousins on October 7th or something. It's just some American Christian Maga guy who lives in Omaha or something, you know. But they will all tell you, like the official line from that side is that, like, every humanitarian organization, every journalist, every doctor, every priest, the UN, the international criminal court, countries like Ireland, like just, they're all lying and they're lying because they got something against Jews. And we're supposed to treat that like it's a serious statement.

You know, like it's not completely ridiculous. And it should almost be disqualifying that the person's saying, but people don't. People are kind of afraid even to like, I mean, not like maybe a lot of the people who are listening to this show who are kind of like locked in on on this side of things but even people who kind of have a problem with what's going on they want to say something or they start to say something they get hit with that and they I see it in real time all the time they don't know really how to respond and the way you respond to that is be like that's that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard just just I'm not talking to you anymore it's it's a ridiculous it's insulting that you would even say that to me you know what I mean

but people take it seriously and like we're kind of you know the the official sort of discourse we're supposed to take that seriously you know you know it's funny because on antire dot com today it's 10 more palestinians starve to death in gaza under israeli blockade has over 100 aid groups sound alarm and so here's where you have all the aid NGOs are just absolutely demanding a ceasefire including doctors without borders and whatever the whole list i'm sure amnesty and hrw whoever's on there and um i got cable tv again because what are you gonna do man i gotta do it so i was watching the news and they had some pretty good coverage what was going on on the bbc but then i i saw on one america news network which i've been a guest on there a couple of

times man they're good people mostly you know but just the way their structure is produced also some aid groups said that they wish that the war would end and that the u.n would be allowed to administer some aid in other news and it just there's nothing to it you would not get the idea that anything bad was happening other than UN and left-wing so-called humanitarian groups are whining about something. Like that was the headline was groups whine, not poor Palestinians are starving to death and people are absolutely desperate to try to intervene somehow to save them and can't and are, you know, going crazy at their helplessness in the situation and whatnot of that's in there.

If you're just, you know, Joe Republicans sitting at home watching One American News, you're not going to get this message. You're just not going to find out. You know, you'd have to have, you know, your son come to him with the martyr-made thing to break through, you know? That's what's got to do. There was that joint statement. I don't know if it came out today or yesterday, but very recently from a bunch of the big journalistic organizations, AP, Reuters, a bunch of them put out a joint statement saying that they're journalists there in Gaza to the point where, like, they're starving. You know, and it's like that kind of just tells you right there. Like if they're starving, then imagine just the poor Ghazan who didn't have anything, you know,

a pot to piss in before the whole thing started. Like what, what condition they're in now? You know what I mean? And again, like you just have to keep going back to the fact that like, you know, this is not like, Hamas, who, you know, whatever you want to even call that now at this point. Now the whole city's destroyed and the population is just completely scattered and wrecked. Like Hamas is not able to put together like even a fire team level squad to go on their quote unquote operations, which is like some dude taking a pot shot at a patrol or like guys trying

to plant an IED somewhere for a, you know, for an APC to drive by. I mean, these guys, they can't put together a five or six man squad for a combat operation. And so, you know, to treat this as if like there's still, you know, there's a war going on and you know things terrible war is hell things happen in war and gosh darn it we can't let the enemy take the food we it's just all ridiculous like none of that has been going on for a long time now you know and that's like that is the key point everybody has to keep in mind there's no war going on there is no war going on this is a one-sided beat down and they're going around shooting the survivors right now like that's it all right so well as long as we're talking about that let's go ahead and

skip to the point i mean this is just one small anecdote maybe we'll get back to it in a minute. Israeli soldier. We use children as human shields in Gaza. We talked about this before. They officially call it the mosquito protocol. And one senior military officer told Haaretz, we have a sub-armie of Palestinian slaves that we use to clear buildings and rubble and tunnels. And that's men, women, children, the elderly. Imagine somebody kidnapping your grandma and forcing her to go wade through rubble because they think there might be a booby trap. in there a foreign occupying army that blew up the building in the first place is why it's rubble and that's this is insane stuff step stephen spielberg could make a movie about this if only some identities were changed around um and this is a protocol it's an official it's an official

policy but but wait hang on one more thing is yeah but to your point um is that they're moving them out and they've said this repeatedly that the goal here you're saying it's a one-sided beatdown with the purpose of forcing them to voluntarily emigrate and they're working hard on a plan and the Trump government is going along with this to try to force them to go to Libya or Ethiopia or Indonesia which you know Ethiopia or Libya I mean these are war-torn countries right now um Indonesia could potentially absorb them but you know force these people to move to Indonesia I mean are you crazy and and they're not going to do that, they would lose, they would become the enemies of, and it's the most populous

Muslim country in the world. And they're going to make themselves the pariah of all Muslim nations in the world for helping the Israelis, acting as accomplices to the Israelis for cleansing the Palestinians out of the last of the Gaza. And once they get them out of Gaza, then it's a lot easier to go ahead and finish the job and push them out of the West Bank. And then the Muslims lose their control, the last of their holy sites there and the rest. Watch them blow up the Alaksa Mosque and rebuild the temple and all of this stuff. And the Indonesian government's going to aid and abet all of that, be a part and parcel of all that.

And then the Indonesian stepped in and said, oh, yeah, we'll help you get rid of these people. Yeah, I don't think they're going to play that role. But that's what they're pushing for. Maybe they could get away with it in Ethiopia or Libya where nobody's strong enough to stand against them. You just force them to do it somehow. And I don't know exactly how that's supposed to work.

And I don't think that the people of the Gaza Strip are going to give in either way. As long as they're a fighting age males there, they will have a rifle and an ID, you know, Macon's at least to set off booby traps and roadside bombs and whatever. They still have tunnels under the ground to fight in. The IDF says, and there may be political reasons behind this, Darrow, I'll be interested in your opinion. But they say that there's just as many Hamasas there were before. I mean, maybe you've raised their command structure. There's still 20,000 armed men hiding in a tunnel.

who aren't leaving and i don't know if the numbers are still the same i believe them that their counterinsurgency doesn't work and i know that they certainly have the will to fight i don't know if they truly have the capacity to continue to keep up the fight here but the lakoud you know benjamin nann yahoo made a deal with people far to the right than any groups he had ever made a deal with before to stay in power back in uh well i don't want to get the you're wrong I guess in 22, right, is when he came in with Bengavir and Smotrich and these guys. And they're just, they have genocidal intent. They made it completely clear.

And Netanyahu himself instructed the IDF. The enemy is Amalek. And you remember what the Bible says about them. You're supposed to kill them all. And those were orders, right? He didn't just say that in a public speech. He said that to the officers leading the army, that those were their orders to annihilate these people so there's you know and people no matter i'm probably repeating myself but it's worth repeating

that um no matter what you think of the icc i mean you don't have to respect the institution at all but if you just go read their preliminary indictment thing whatever they call it their first um little judgment that they issued there it's just full of citations of israeli officials making their intent clear and that's always part and parcel of genocide is the intent and expressly stated intent. The tootsies are all cockroaches. They're the tall trees. Cut them all down. So we know that this wasn't the heat of the moment or something. You guys had a plan and instructed people to carry it out. Same thing here. You call them Amalek. You say you're coming to kill them and then you kill them. Then we know what's going on. That was what you decided to do. Annihilate their

society. And they're only going as slow as politics necessitate. But they don't look like they're And by the way, where's the political controversy here? Everybody's upset with Trump for Obama and Iran for a couple days and they should have been. And that's not over yet. We're going to talk about that in a minute. But what about him being Joe Biden in Gaza and helping Netanyahu continue to annihilate these people? It's just, I mean, look at it just everybody. How about how about 10 minutes, you know, and look with your own eyes?

How about that Bill that Massey and Marjorie Taylor Green put up recent? to not like cut Israel off to reduce, I think, the military aid we give them by like $500 million, something half a billion dollar drop in the bucket. They wanted to reduce it by really like a symbolic reduction. And I think they were the only votes, certainly in the Republican Party, they were the only votes for that bill. And, you know, AOC voted against it, you know. And anytime you have a, have an issue like this where, you know, you look at any poll. and the American public is split, the world is split, the European public is split, everybody's split, except for the U.S. Congress is 99.5% all in one direction.

You always have to just ask what's really going on there, you know, and it gives you a glimpse into how power actually operates behind the scenes. And, you know, hint, hint, it's not people trying to get the most votes or something like that. I mean, it's a, it's a sad situation, man. I mean, when you look at, and these are the things that are going to be in the history books, you know, the things that right now are just sort of part of the debate and back and forth news, stories and editorials, but eventually this stuff's all going to be written down in a coherent way in history books. And what they're going to see is, like, you mentioned Ben Gavir. I mean, you have to just, you have to, like, just imagine that, like, we had a secretary of state,

which is basically his position over there, who was a member of the, who's like a leader of the, White Power Party who had gone on record talking about how Dillon Roof was one of his heroes. Because that's, Ben-Gavir is one of the leaders of the Jewish Power Party, and he's on record saying that Baruch Goldstein did the mass shooting up on the Temple Mount in the 90s is one of his heroes. He visits his grave on the wall. Has his picture on the wall. And I mean, this is not a guy who, this is just a straight-up mass shooter. I mean, he just went in and just started masquering a civilians and you have like their secretary of state equivalent saying this is one of their one of his heroes i mean people are going to look at that and they're going to say i mean what what were the

people who were denying what's going on here like outside of israel you know people in our country people who were denying what were they even looking at like what this is this is the most obvious thing any like look at the jerks in 1915 look at the germans in the 1940 they weren't anywhere close to this open about what they were doing you know i mean even to their own people they would like speak in coded language and kind of like tone it down for certain audiences of their own people even let alone the global you know the the global environment and so you know they certainly didn't have like SS officers uploading videos from Treblinka to telegram every day like we have IDF soldiers doing from Gaza it's it's crazy yeah no it is I read a great piece

this morning in Manda Weiss by Mitchell Plitnik who is uh I don't know how left is, but progressive American anti-Zionist Jew and a great writer, great journalist. And he wrote about how the leader of Mossad came to Washington to meet with, I'm sorry, man, the real estate guy, Whitkoff, to meet with Whitkoff and on their great Gaza plan, which is this ethnic cleansing program. And Plitnik has all the moral authority and all the Jewish people. identity he needs to hide behind, I guess, or whatever, to say that, look, man, this is exactly like Adolf Eichmann.

If you listen to the way that they talk about this, where it's just, hey, I'm just doing my job putting these people in box cars, you know what I mean? Whereas my job is accounting and making sure there are enough box cars. Oh, you know, whatever kind of the bureaucratic box ticking required to get these people killed and cleansed and eradicated out of there and how yeah this is you know this is the problem with the godwin's law thing or even more to the point it's the problem with what godwin's law was describing which was where everything is the nazis well you know who also like to drink tap water adolf hitler so you know that kind of thing and the thing is seems to me that's actually not

true anymore because he was right godwin was right that any online discussion immediately turns into oh yeah you're just like the nazis and they actually wore it out it actually became so stupid to do that i think people really quit doing that but now you have people acting just like nazis and it's like passe to call them that right that's what everybody calls or i guess i'm not really framing that right because the democrats do call all republicans and america nazis and all of that and all of that but it seems like the it's all because of all the propaganda all around it makes it more difficult for a serious guy like Mitchell Plitnik to just say, hey, look, and the synagogue I was raised in, that's not what we're supposed to support the mass violation of human rights.

What in the world is this? This is what, if we're victims when this happens to us, then what does that make us when we're the ones doing it, right? Like that makes us the perpetrators and the other guys, the victims. And that's a role that, of course, we should not be playing. It's as plain as day. But that doesn't get a hearing, right? Because like the Adolf Hitler's name has been worn out by everybody who used it, you know, inappropriately or, you know, as an inapt comparison where now it really counts.

And we're talking about, we talked about this last week. They're talking about, well, what we're going to do is we're going to build these camps where Rafa used to be. They destroyed it, completely wiped it off the face of the earth. We're going to build camps there. And then we're going to concentrate the Palestinians there. like wait check that translation no that's what he said we're gonna the defense minister said that we're gonna concentrate them in a camp down there that we're gonna build in the south as we prepare to force them to voluntarily emigrate i mean this is what the national socialists said

about the jews in the second world war mr historian back me up on this like that all we're doing is transferring them to the east and first we got to concentrate them in these camps see and like yeah what and some of these guys still got their grandparents german accents i guess you know yeah in the intervening years they didn't uh they didn't get the memo that uh we decided to start calling those strategic hamlets you're not supposed to actually call them concentration camps anymore but exactly you know it's interesting you talk about like the whole build yeah how like uh you talk about uh the way that something like the term nazi has been you know, sort of saturated to the point where, you know, you're confronted with the real thing

and it just doesn't really stick. It doesn't really mean anything. And it's not because, like, it's not even like a boy who cried wolf thing exactly, I don't think. It's more just that, you know, we're in this weird new environment, right? Where you can, I mean, like, they have less control over the media than I just mean like the people in charge, the people who used to control the narrative with an iron fist, have less control than they ever did before. There are more ways for people to get counter narratives out and reach huge audiences. All those things are all true. And that's good.

But what has actually happened, and they've shifted their tactics on how to deal with this stuff a little bit, not everybody. A lot of the old boomers, like they're still living in the old world, and it shows in their really terrible propaganda. But there is an adjustment on their side going, on of realizing that the way that you fight all this stuff now is not to try to just firmly control the narrative that's just not going to work creates backlash creates suspicion shines a spotlight on things you don't want it shined on what you do is you just flood the zone with so much

content so much you know BS part you know I was going to curse but um that people just they're confused they don't know what to believe they're just too much and they're overwhelmed and everything kind of you know it all gets like swept up into the content stream and before you know it like kids are dying in Gaza starving to death in Gaza is just like that's that's the this week's twist on the Gaza TV show you know what I mean like it's not actually thought of as something like no we're actually taxing Americans and sending these people money for weapons to shoot these people at the aid distribution centers. That's actually happening.

Oh, hell, sorry. I was a, have my mic muted. Or this is the other guy's issue. This is the thing the other guy cares about, not us. And so I get this. We're on the Tim Poole show. And it's like, look, if Palestine's important, how come these icky, horrible communist

college student protesters I don't like care about it? I'll be damned. I'd rather die than agree with them about anything. And it's like, in a way, like, yeah, it really sucks that the wokeists who are wrong about the last 10 most important things decided this is their issue now, because they really are, in a way, getting their stupid comicudies all over it, which is just too damn bad because Palestinians are still people and it ain't okay to starve their babies to death for God's sake. But as what you're saying about this dynamic, the psychology of it all, where it just becomes unreal.

It becomes, you know, you give a message. It becomes something quite different than what's actually happening to the people there by the time it gets to your mind. Yeah. And like, think about, and it's not even that you don't believe it. It's that there's a, there's just a layer of unreality about it, you know, where just like the Epstein thing, you look at like every poll that comes out. And like 70% of people or more think that he got murdered in prison because he had dirt on very powerful people. Now, whether that's true or not, if 70% of people believe that, okay, that there's this mass pedophile who's working with intelligence agencies who has blackmail on people powerful enough to have him murdered and cover it up in a federal prison when everybody is like fully expecting him to be murdered in this prison, right? if that is the case well then you know where when's the tea party i mean like that's a reason to

throw down and like overthrow the government if that's what actually happened if that's what's going on if people believe it but nobody's even remotely close to even thinking that way but they do believe it they do believe that that happened and yet it's just kind of like it's just part of the tv show you know what i mean it's not something that demands action on their part and it's the same thing here i mean look like well and we don't know what to do right you and me can do a podcast about it, but we don't know what to do either. Yeah, that's part of it. We're just going to get thrown in the harbor, right?

Yeah, and especially because, you know, like, it's, you know, when you have just completely closed ranks at, like, the elected politician level and, and the bureaucracy level, like, you can go to what? We can go to Thomas Massey, can go to Marjorie Taylor Green a bit, you know, Democrats maybe thought they could go to AOC, you can't go to her, you know. And so, like, who do you go to? to. It's just going to be some marginal backbencher who's going to get shut. There's just no avenue in to put pressure on these people. I mean, you could get to the point, I think,

where you could get to the point where 80% of the country was calling for an end to this and demanding an end to this. And I don't think that they would really, like the elected politicians would really even be afraid of that because they know that when the time comes in a couple years and, you know, you have to choose between reelecting a Republican or getting, you know, ill, on Omar or just or vice versa on the other side you have to elect like this person who betrayed you on this issue because otherwise you're going to get a fascist or whatever like they just have confidence that that's going to work it's always worked before and uh if you know the sad thing is they're probably right yeah well you know i wouldn't be too pessimistic about it i think this is

one of those issues that we talked about where it's just too obvious and too simple and too easy to understand and too outrageous for everybody no matter who you are and you know there's a reason for right wingers and left wingers to want to play it down because their guy might be implicated there's also a reason for them to want to play it up because the other guys are implicated too and it's just the most ugly and outrageous thing it seems like they're very well could be a tipping point about this and maybe it's already there you know i was like i say i got cable tv against i was watching the news and one of these heads and boxes was reporting from capitol hill and said that they're talking these congressmen they're saying every phone call is about this

nobody cares about anything but this you're going to let these people get away with this you're going to do your damn job ring ring ring ring ring all damn day so that's either happening or it ain't and it's happening people care about it and they're making it an issue and so like we're not all the way dead yet and it's you know i don't want to be too defeatist here um yeah as i was saying before you don't have to buy you don't have to sell or buy a bunch of snake oil about just call your congressman young man and participate in democracy and everything will work out your way in the end or whatever it's not like that but it is worth trying anyway it's worth yeah in the issue alive and i'll go ahead and i had to work this in here somewhere i'm and i swear we're going to get right

back to israel and syria and some other shit in a second but this is an important uh example of what we're talking about and it's worth bringing up here it's a brand new book out called blowback by margaret roberts is her name and it's about the oklahoma city bombing and i haven't read it yet and i'm really really busy and it's probably going to be quite a few weeks before i get a chance to, I'm sad to say. But every other podcaster out there in the world, you should know about this book and you should have her on. She's, this is not a bunch of crap. And there, there is a bunch of crap about Oklahoma City floating around out there. There are also people who are not cooks, uh, centered around Jesse Trinidoo, the lawyer from Utah, who have done very good work on this. And that includes her.

This is serious journalism about what sounds like a controversial topic or whatever. But it's one that I've been good on since day one just by happenstance and has been, you know, very important for a long time. And one of the things that was so important about it to me in the first place was, well, what do you mean that they can get rather Jennings and Brokaw and every newspaper editor in the country to go along with this thing? We're blaming on the one guy and his closest friend was two states away. And then that's it.

And it doesn't matter that I know you're lying that that's not true. I know for a fact all kinds of things that indicate a much larger thing but I got a lot of facts that absolutely prove that McVeigh had held that day in town and for some reason you guys don't want to know oh now John Doe too doesn't exist at all huh and so to me and I know a lot of people feel this way about 9-11

that if only I could get everyone to understand that that's how corrupt American power is that some guy could be friends with a bunch of FBI informants and then blow up a building full of a bunch of U.S. government employees and their babies at their daycare and that the government would clamp down and cover that up and blame the whole thing on one guy and that the media, the entire media from Portland, Oregon to Miami, Florida would essentially conspire with them to do it. In fact, it's one of the reasons I became too much of a New World Order kook because I was like, well, it must be the Freemasons or the skull and bones or this weird secret network of power that coerces people. people to go along with this when in fact no they're just a bunch of idiots you know what i mean the editor of the austin american statesman he didn't want to know better he didn't know better right but to me if i knew better then they must all know better i thought and whatever but anyway the

point being i thought this is on top of how important it is in its own right and for all the victims and all the perpetrators who were not held accountable and all that that this is like the key to waking up everyone don't you see how completely corrupt america is our system of government is right now where essentially a bunch of FBI informants can blow up a building and the Bill Clinton government and the entire American media will let them skate and the Republicans won't hold a single hearing in Congress even though they control both houses and they do nothing but investigate Vince Foster all day long but they don't want to touch this one never held a single hearing on the Oklahoma bombing and it's the same kind

thing where it's like okay at some point i know the needle's going to scratch off the record everyone's going to stop and say hold on we we want a thousand indictments against a thousand senior officials or nobody's going back to work again we're just not going to participate in the system anymore we want accountability for all of these guys and just doesn't seem to happen But I can see why, you know, these issues keep coming up and then we invest a lot of hope that, like, this is going to be the thing to make people realize that, like, how can it be that you would have someone get away with this much murder, figuratively speaking? And then be murdered and all of the things, as you describe it there, this massive network of power. The, as we talked about last week, the hundreds of cell phones that we see their location data as they go to and fro from his child. rape island and all of this stuff like how can it be that they're going to skate um it absolutely

should be the kind of thing that would lead to some sort of major change and the thing is though is i think it is certainly on the small scale it's breaking through people's minds all over the place and and shaking them out of it in the way that always hoped Oklahoma would 30 years ago um and um and so i don't know i don't have a plan as the kagan say there is no articulatable plan to the desired end state, but we're going to do this anyway. You know, we don't have another Ron Paul in line ready to inherit the power and do the right thing. But we can, at the very least, we got to do the hard work of discrediting the people in power who do not deserve it and are probably the least deserving of it that we could

possibly have. And for another example, their support for al-Qaeda in Syria. over the secular Assad dictatorship there that had the support of the majority of Sunnis, as well as the Shiites and the Alawites and the Christians and all the other sects. We waged a dirty terrorist war against them and then a massive economic war against them. And then with Turkey and Israel helped destroy, well, helped Israel destroy Hezbollah and then worked with Israel and Turkey, particularly the Turks, I guess, to help al-Qaeda break out of the Idlib province and sack Damascus last December. And now Donald Trump, just again, following right in Joe Biden's footsteps, has normalized relations with Syria.

Not that I'm saying he should have kept sanctions on or whatever. We should just leave Syria completely alone. But he went over and shook hands with the guy. It referred to him as having a strong pass, which meant he fought Americans in Iraq War II. And only because the Israelis hate the Shiites more. And the Alawites were friends with the Shiites. And this is a corruption of American policy over there where the war on terrorism ain't just dead. It's completely sold out.

it's 180 degrees the other way. We're back on the side of the bin Ladenites and they're back on our side and this kind of deal is intolerable and continuing on. It's another one of those things that ought to just really shake people's heads out of it. Think of how many Americans got on board for the I hate and fear Muslims and let's have a terror war program for 15 years there and all in the name of stopping bin Ladenites. but the policy now is no i heard we hate iran more than osama bin laden why how could that possibly be that you do because the israelis insist that's the only reason yeah and uh you know there's like a there's a there's a way in which like ever since the second world war when the great powers kind of all develop their own nuclear arsenals where you know you could fight proxy wars but

conflict between great powers, like really was kind of uploaded into the information realm. And so information operations and propaganda just became just a dominant mode of like interstate conflict, basically, you know. And what that's meant. And partly the other, you know, the other reason for this is just, you know, that, or I would say corollary to that is that, you know, subversion became a primary weapon of both NATO and the Soviet Union to use against each other. And it led both sides to engage in like a level of government secrecy that it just wouldn't have been, I mean, it just wouldn't have been tolerated in the past. It was just something where it's just, it became fully expected that the government, well, they have to lie to us about everything all the

time because if they don't, then the enemy is going to know the truth. And so this is what's going to happen. But everybody kind of knows that that's the case. And it's the case with every, every country. And so everybody's kind of living in this chaotic information environment where they don't know what is true or not. And so all they do is clan up with the people who seem like they're on their side and go along with that. And it's made it though so that, you know, I mean, look, when you look at like the Oklahoma City thing is a good example. Like I don't, I've only read, what is it, aberration in the heartland of the real. I think it's the only full book I've actually read on it and I've listened to your stuff on it and other people.

But, you know, I could see a world where the story is, you know, we were keeping an eye on these guys. We were developing informants, doing all this stuff. Yeah, we could have stopped it beforehand, but, you know, we would have got them on, like, weapons and explosive charges that had been out in a year. And then we'd be back where we were. And we wanted to catch him in the act, lost track of them, and then boom. And then we said, oh, no, we can't get caught, you know, we can't let people know. know that we actually were watching these guys. And so we're going to cover it up.

The Epstein thing, you know, I could see a world where, like, you know, intelligence agencies during Iran-Contra and other things that were going on back then were working with guys like Robert Maxwell and Adnan Khashoggi, and that they barely even knew who Epstein was. Epstein was working for those guys as like a money man and like so forth. And that his sexual proclivities were all his own thing. And, you know, if they had come out and said, look, You know, yeah, everybody knows we were doing some dirty stuff back in the 1980s.

You know, when you do those kinds of things, you work with those kind of people. They're not, you know, churchgoing good folks all the time. Sometimes, you know, you have to work with the scum of the earth. And like this guy turned out to really be the scum of the earth, but we didn't have anything to do with the sexual stuff. They could say that. And people, even if they didn't buy it, it would be enough. but instead they come out with these just lockstep insulting lies to your face and everybody then just kind of assumes that the worst possible scenario is probably what happened

and so the FBI worked with those guys to plan the Oklahoma City bombing so that they could have an excuse to take all our guns or the Epstein thing is because there's this massive global worldwide like organized ritual child abuse cult that runs the world and and like you know and again that you know that by itself i mean i think is a is probably a weapon that the people who are trying to cover these things up utilized to the fullest you know throw the stuff out there that is is you know a compelling and interesting way to connect all the dots that to any thinking person is really ridiculous and can be kind of or at the very least can't be can't be proven or supported and then they can come in and shut that down and then you know sort of by proxy shut down the more

reasonable people yeah yeah no i think that's true and i'm sure there's a CIA manual that's been published somewhere along the line that even says to do that you know what i mean when people are on to us make up even more stuff along the same lines that ultimately won't pan out and you know discredits the whole thing it's a pretty obvious yeah there was that you i remember reading about there are plenty people who are just willing to speculate about anything and are willing to muddy the water themselves and don't care. And so there's a lot of that too, which just sucks, you know. Yeah.

And they do, I mean, look, like, I remember just, this is obviously a very tame version of it, but I remember reading about a British information out back in the 70s in Northern Ireland, where the British intelligence figured out that this shipment, this big shipment of RPGs that the IRA had gotten their hands on, had a faulty trigger mechanism that sometimes caused them to, like, blow up in people's faces. stuff. And the British, they didn't want, they, they wanted, it wasn't meant to like stand up over a long period of time, but they wanted to keep the IRA from figuring out what was wrong with the things, like for as long as possible. And so the British figured out what was wrong. And

they started planting stories in the press and spreading rumors that it was like anything but that was the actual problem. And like, you know, that's the kind of thing that, that's the kind of thing that they do. You know, they plant stories out there that are just purely meant at, you know, to be diversions, you know, and, and, you know, in our day and age, when you have this very strange, right, like, you know, information environment with the internet and social media and especially like the way everything is kind of built around virality, you know, where you can throw something like that out there. And, I mean, you don't even have to like, that's it. That's all you have to do. You throw it out there and get it started. And it just kind of takes on a

life of its own and you don't ever have to give it any input again you know it's just kind of takes on a life of its own and becomes an online cult built around this this idea or this theory that's out there that's almost self perpetuating and defends itself from like outside criticism and you know and things like that and you know there's probably well that's what that's what's so great about the oklahoma story right is again kooky topic with solid journalism on the subject and you just can't deny the level of atrocity and the level of outrage that they would cover that up and allow the guilty to go free to protect their own asses. And that the media did go along. That when they said there's no John Doe 2, Mike Wallace went, there is no John Doe 2. And we just all lived

in there is no John Doe 2 world after that. That is unacceptable. And so, but what it is, it sounds crazy on at first. And see, here's the other thing. Is most of the coochier stuff, like Lori Milroy and Judy Miller trying to pin it on Saddam Hussein and these other people who said that al Qaeda had trained Terry Nichols in the Philippines and all of this more outlandish stuff there was a lady who in alliance with Judy Miller and Lori Milroy tried to blame it on an Iraqi and some Palestinians and all of this it's just ridiculous but see all those kind of went away you know it's just been too long and so now what's left is what we already knew which was I mean you'd like to think that we live you were informants and there were a couple CIA associated provocateurs in there as well and i think it's just as you described it they were supposed to catch them red-handed and then they didn't and then they covered it up but the the real part is that they succeeded in covering it up that to me is the part that ought to shake everybody out of it and that that's what's great about things like there's a brand new documentary that came out on hbo last year about it and then i know enough

about this book to know that this is the good stuff and without the kook stuff but on a level though that that does teach you that you live in a different country than you thought you did and in fact I could say a mutual friend of ours um had told me that he was only just learning about this and was just like okay I get it so they lied about everything everything and I believed it and now I don't but like okay so you know what I mean like that's yeah yeah and it's a real change in life if they could even lie about that. Are you kidding? The Oklahoma bombing, too, you know?

Yeah. And especially when you get, you know, certain things like the JFK assassination. Like, JFK assassination is a perfect example. Uh-oh. Daryl turned from a video into a still photograph. Just he was getting to JFK.

Yeah, here I am. Oh, no, there he is. He's okay. All right. I thought somebody shot you from the grassy knoll right then. No, the CIA tried to DDoS me. But, you know, I got a crack security team here at the farm. So we're good for now. But, you know, it's one of those things.

And like the Epstein 80s, like Iran-Contra thing is another good example of this, where, you know, it's sort of this, it's this topic that is always kind of sitting out there for people to go and learn a lot about power structures operating in the immediate period like right before like the world we're living in now. And so like you read about the JFK assassination, you might go down a million different rabbit holes that don't lead anywhere and come out of it still like really not sure who killed the guy or why or whatever, but you're going to know a lot more about what was going on in the middle part of the 20th century just from doing that, you know and that in the same thing again with like epstein or ron contra i mean you might come

out of that like no more certain of anything than you were before but damn you know about an contra which means that you know a lot more just about like how uh you know just the how conflicts were being were being waged in the late cold war and how intelligence agencies operate just all these different players you know and so they're very useful for that and that you know i've always made that case that, you know, Epstein is most likely going to just become another JFK thing where you never really know and people always kind of talk about it and just, it's just never comes out. But that's not a, well, it's not ideal. It doesn't mean it's not useful, you know, because this issue is, it's going to be hanging out there for people to, you know, to find their

way into this world and start to question the world that they, that they do live in, you know. And, yeah, and JFK is a great parallel because, hey, somebody, blew the president's head off pretty hard to consider that anything but a mystery that needs solving you know what i mean extremely important one that's just right there you know abrupt and in the open where you know if he'd gone to jail for something it would have been murky there's you know obviously cottage industry of people who believe and i think i'm probably one of them that nixon was set up and that watergate was a coup against him for a variety of different alleged motives and whatever but hell most people don't think that most people have any reason to think that that was

anything other than he screwed up and got busted in fact i just saw a clip of him where he seemed very suspicious about what happened at the watergate in the first place but then he took responsibility for yeah me and my men and especially my guys but me too we should have just resolved the thing instead of doing what we did trying to continue covering it up and whatever so he was a you know man enough to admit that part but he seemed honestly suspicious about why would it take seven guys to break into one building together and all you know all of that kind of thing but um but jfk getting shot like you either just want to believe that oh they would never lie it had to have been that one guy or not and i think

almost everybody is not i don't know what the latest polls say but i know it's always been super majorities of people believe and this is there's a great bill hicks joke about this why he's always talking about JFK he's like well because we didn't do anything about it everybody knows that it was a coup everybody knows it that people in the government killed the guy but then they got away with it but then we continue to pretend that this is a democracy and the people are in charge when well no both of those things can't be true right like what are we talking about here is a long time ago wasn't that long ago and if it's still unresolved then it's currently unresolved you know what I mean yeah what the hell yeah and I mean

go ahead go ahead yeah i was just going to say the interesting thing it's like very different about our contemporary era from uh jfksa or um the okloma city thing even more recently right it's like you said they could get peter jennings and tom brokaw uh whoever chris i don't know whoever the other guy was like you can get those guys on message yeah dan rather get those guys on message get a few of the big papers on message and big media outlets uh and you're done like that you pretty much did it and you're still going to be people out there who can like uh you know they latch on to something that some intrepid journalists you know put together and like they're gonna but those people are always going to be fringe whereas today now like they don't it's not

these things aren't covered up like everybody looks at the Epstein story and it's like everybody thinks there's something incredibly wrong with this that involves probably people in power it's not really covered up same thing with what's going on in Gaza there's no cover up you know it's just pollute the information environment to such an extent that people are kind of overwhelmed with information they just don't know they don't know how to respond to it you know in fact so this is the last point i want to make about gaza and then we got to talk to about a couple things i guess we're going to go ahead and go over half an hour here i think we should um but on on on gaza i was watching today where i'm pretty sure it was on the bbc or no it wasn't actually

Did you know that ABC News has a 24-hour cable TV news channel? I didn't know that. So I started watching it. And the lady, they were showing pictures of the starving babies. And then the lady, she gave an adversarial interview to, I forgot the position, but an Israeli official. I believe a military official. Anyway, but whatever. And there's, I don't think he was just a spokesman.

I think he, you know, had a real job. But he was saying, look, man, you're right that people are going hungry. I ain't saying that, but I am saying it's all Hamas's fault. Hamas, they're intercepting all the food and keeping it for themselves and keeping it away from everybody else. And that's why it's not our fault. So, well, I guess first, second, I want to hear what you have to say about that. But first, I call Dave DeCamp, who's our news editor at anti-war.com,

who reads and writes about this stuff all day, every day. And if people aren't reading anti-war.com, you're cheating yourself. This is how you know this stuff is read anti-war.com. But Dave writes it. And he's my guy. So I call them. And I go, hey, man. So I want to know, like, the most of what you've seen of that.

Because I think that must be true, right? I'm not trying to take this Israeli side. But I know that the aid always goes to the fighters first, no matter where you are. You know what I mean? So that's got to be right, right? And Dave said, well, yeah, that's what I would think, too. but I've seen virtually no reports of that like maybe one or two rumors and statements and things

but like essentially you just have Israeli sources claiming that and doesn't seem to be a widespread phenomenon that the fighters are just intercepting the food here and that instead what it is is just the severe lack of it it's the quantity versus the demand they just are not letting in enough trucks they're holding them back at you know these checkpoints and those checkpoints all over the place

and so that's what's causing it so seems like a major and important talking point i don't know if you can still hear me darrell you seem to have frozen up again but for the audience that i'm still talking to i guess it's an important talking point on the regime side that you know it's everybody's fault that's up the people who are you know the owners of the zoo and have these people locked up in their pen the way that they do there so um but it's not true so I think we got Darrell back here so were you able to hear all that yeah geez

yeah it was the JFK hit squad got him again but I'll just ramble for a minute until Darrell can fix his signal it's part of the price of living in his own little private paradise in Idaho there I've got to get him some fiber optic lines

I'm old and need reading glasses yeah rushing gate well let's skip yeah oh we got you back now yeah i'm sorry um sorry you want to talk about rush again let's talk about rush you know there was something uh oh you were talking about yeah so one thing i did want to mention is from what i understand uh as far as the food you know stuff you were talking about is that there have been and this was i i think i've read this Oh, hell. Well, I think he was going to say that they've been masquering the people at the AIDS sites, which is something important that I should have mentioned,

and I'm glad he just reminded me in case I'm hopefully completing his thought there. And it's been massacre after massacre. I think we talked about this last week. It was in Hirets. They did a big special on this, and we cover this at anti-war.com daily. They are almost daily anyway. they let the people come to get food starving people they blockade them till they're starving to death or at least going severely hungry they're desperate mobs of people to get the aid and then they blast them with either machine guns fully automatic machine guns and even artillery shells they blast them with artillery men women and children and you got the soldiers saying yeah and i asked my commanding officer man are you sure sir and he said do it so i did it

and this is all right there and they admit it they have army officers confirming as well and they're just masquer in these people and again it's on antiwar dot com today that article from the new arab where again further reports again confirming harrets about their official policy of using Palestinians as human shields you know they always accuse hamas of using human shields for firing rockets from densely crowded areas uh you know populated areas which to a degree is true, although they oversimplify it, right? Where human shield has a definition. Firing

from near a civilian area is its own thing, and you can just call it that. They call it using a human shield, and they literally, at times you can find pictures of them, they tie a Palestinian kid to the hood of their Jeep as they're driving through. And these reports, again, with their own admissions in Israeli press

of forcing Palestinian, and not captive, Hamas, terrorists, but of just regular civilians and forcing them to clear the rubble and all that so um now you got your uh your wi-fi straight you want to talk about rushgate oh man you need to plug into your ethernet young man ethernet all right so i'm going to go ahead and talk about the ukraine war because i want to talk about rushigate with darrell but i'll tell you about the ukraine war for a minute

there's a really great war analyst i hope you guys watch his name is matt williams and he's an australian veteran of afghanistan uh infantry guy there And I interviewed him on my show a few weeks ago. And he goes by Willie O-A-M on YouTube. And he's a great analyst. Poor guy's got brain cancer right now. And I know he's on a going treatment. I hope he gets better.

But he does brilliant analysis of the maps every day and the news on the war in Ukraine. And he does cover Gaza and covered Iran and all these things. he's a great military expert but he's really been expert on what's going on in the ground in ukraine where the russians are just on the ascent and they've kind of have havrask this city in far western dynetsk like three quarters encircled and seemed to be taking their time uh closing the loop there as they're grinding up ukrainian forces and um well at the same time uh they also were making moves I was watching him this morning. He was talking about how they were making moves in Sumi as well,

adjacent to Kursk, where they've now forced the Ukrainians all the way back out again. And then there are massive protests in Kiev because Poroshenko is under fire because he signed this law or passed and announced an edict or whatever it was, reining in the anti-corruption organizations. I guess we're making too many complaints

about the corruption of the war. so this you know is helping to undermine his authority for what it's worth in the war and then the last piece of news on that was that they had talks yesterday the russians and ukrainians when nothing happened um they they read on a prisoner exchange but as far as talks about the lines in the war potential ceasefire anything like that all that was over you know off the table from the beginning and they walked out after 40 minutes it was over they did agree i believe to turn over 1,400 captives each. So that's good at least for them. But the war is continuing on and no signs of any relief. And then as far as Trump's announced arms transfers over there, you know, he said that

the Europeans are going to supply it all and then pay us back and all this kind of thing. But then the Europeans disputed that. And I don't know exactly the form that that's taking or the degree to which that aid has been held up at all or what. Man, and that reminds me, too, about what we brought up Syria before. I didn't get to mention the fighting going on there where you have the bin Ladenite government there backing Bedouin tribes fighting the Druze. And then you have the Israelis intervening in the name of protecting the Druze when, of course, they're just, you know, building greater Israel and southern Syria there and give a damn about the

Druze. They'll kidnap the Druze and steal their property all day. But then, and the bin Ladenite forces were lining up the Druze and executing them in all. So it isn't like the Israelis don't have a pretext because the bin Ladenites are, as bin Ladenites do. They fought against the Alawites. They've murdered Christians, especially Alawites. And now they're backing these Bedouin tribes against the Druze in southwestern Syria. And, you know, how are they ever going to form a coalition government with the Kurds out in the east or um or you know any you know be able to follow through on on governing any of that country uh i don't know i don't think there's going to be much left to syria by the time this is all said and done and now i don't know if i should keep going i want to

talk about russia gate but darrell cannot get his ethernet to work i don't think so maybe we ought to just wrap this up here man i wanted to talk about somalia I won't talk about lots of things, but I guess I'll just leave it here. Oh, go to the Libertarian Institute, libertarian institute.org and read Jim Bovart's great new article about Waco and the end of accountability. We really really like it. And that's it for Provolvelocke. I guess. We'll see y'all next week. You know,