Provoked with Darryl Cooper and Scott Horton - EP:55 - Vance Defends Talks from the Hawks

Episode Date: July 17, 2026

Darryl Cooper & Scott Horton discuss JD Vance's appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience this week and the many strange things he said on various topics, including the Iran War and Jeffrey Epstein. Chapters: 0:39 Welcome and Sponsors 2:18 Vance Faces the War Party 11:56 Rogan’s Iran Challenge 21:44 Ben Shapiro Backfires 22:34 Israeli Influence Exposed 36:26 Hatred, Not the Answer 38:11 Epstein and Mossad 39:57 The Inflation Debate 1:06:37 Coffee, Courses, and Politics 1:09:17 Ukraine’s Corruption Shakeup 1:12:45 Iran’s Massive Funeral 1:21:46 Iraq’s Power Struggle 1:26:38 ICC and Closing Rant (Cleaned up w/ the Podsworth app. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podsworth.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) Sponsors: Expat Money: Secure your international Plan B: ⁠⁠⁠https://expatmoney.com/provoked⁠⁠⁠ Agorist Tax Advice: Pick up a free copy of the brilliant Matthew Sercely's Agorist Tax Toolkit at: ⁠⁠⁠https://AgoristTaxAdvice.com/provoked⁠⁠⁠ Scott Horton Blend Coffee: ⁠⁠⁠https://moondoesartisancoffee.com/products/scott-horton-supreme-breakfast-blend⁠⁠⁠ Provoked show site: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://provoked.show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Darryl's links: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@martyrmade⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://subscribe.martyrmade.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Scott's links: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@scotthortonshow⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://scotthortonacademy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://libertarianinstitute.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://antiwar.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://scotthorton.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://scotthorton.org/books⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.scotthortonshow.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visitactivia.ca for more details. Tonight on the show, Darrell barely. made it. All humans break. The difference between humans and gods is that gods can break humans. Negotiate now. End this war. You're watching Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton, debunking the propaganda lies of the past, present, and future. This is provoked. Oh my goodness, it's time for the show. Good evening, Darryor Cooper. How are you, sir? Don't all right, brother. I like to keep you in suspense every week.

Show up like the last second. I could actually see my heart beating out of my chest. Listen, this is the expat money broke show, I guess, for something. So how it works is these guys sponsored the show. So we talk about their thing. It's expat money. It's run by this guy named Mikkel Thorpe. He's a very good guy.

I toured ancient Mayan. with the guy, and so that means he's a great guy. And it doesn't really mean that. But in my experience, he's a wonderful guy. And then what happened was, well, he's been an expat kind of for many years, and he's traveled all around the world, and he knows all the rules for if you were to want to move to some other country, any other country, can you own property, how much,

what can you do in terms of plan B's and plan C's for when the empire finally falls all the way down. And so what you do is you just go to expatmoney.com slash provoked. Don't forget to put slash provoked on the end of expatmoney.com slash provoked. And then you will get this free booklet on plan B, residences and instant citizenship, your introduction to expatriatism. And although that's misuse of that term. But anyway, so go and check that out, expatmoney.com slash provoked. And then that way me and Dero can keep doing our show here, which is about so many great things, I mean, bad things

that we have to cover on the show. But let's start with Vice President Vance did the Rogan show there. And well, I had a couple of comments. I think

I'll try to sum it up and stick to the overall point, Darrell. Did you get a chance to watch it? Yeah. Okay. So my of it was this on Iran. The overall thrust of the discussion was not him threatening Iran and explaining to Joe why we got to go back to war now because them damn crazy mullis, they just only understand one thing for us. It was not that. Instead, what it was was it was him defending diplomacy and saying that in fact there is no military solution to this

problem at all. Only a diplomatic solution can keep that straight open. And so, those are his instructions from the president are to get a deal and then he spent the whole time seemingly somewhat angry bending off the war party and this concerted campaign against him demonizing him and trying to undermine his diplomacy

which he explained is he's acting directly on orders from the president of the United States to see this through and so I'm not trying to say everyone should trust Peter Thiel Nauer or whatever thing people like to extrapolate

and deconstruct things. I'm not vouching for J.D. Vance at all. But I am saying that was the thrust of his argument up there, was saying, essentially, admitting defeat and saying the administration admits defeat. So we have to see this through at the table. And there are only two issues at stake, Daryl Cooper.

They got to promise not to make nuclear weapons. And they got to open the straight. Yeah. You know, just from a political, standpoint, like for J.D. Vance's political career, he's really put himself in kind of the worst of both worlds, you know, where now he's, he went out and gave a sort of half-hearted, you know, defense of the way this whole thing has been carried on in a way that does not satisfy and, like, anybody, and really pisses off people who were against this whole thing. But at the same time, he did it in a way that has Ben Shapiro

avowing him and all the neocons attacking him and everything else. So he's kind of in a no man's land now. And, you know, in his defense, I guess, to a certain degree, this is just, it's a no-win situation. You know, your job as the vice president is not to go out there and counter signal the president's policies. If you want to do that, you should probably resign. And if you do that, then, you know, go back to whatever, working in venture capital or something because your political career is over. if you're not going to do that, you know, if you're going to tell yourself that you can do more good from the inside than the outside,

then, you know, you've got to go out, I guess, and do stuff like this. And it's kind of sad to watch. But, I mean, you're right, though. You know, he did say what you said. I mean, which is just recognizing reality, right? I mean, the idea that, you know, I was watching some of the videos of the,

supposedly some of the videos of the strikes that the DoD's been releasing. And, you know, there's ones where, like, you've got two or three missiles hitting, like, a stack of cargo containers on the side of a runway. And I'm like, how sure are we what's even in those things? Like, are we blowing up a bunch of, like, child pool toys or something? Like, I feel like when we launched this warp, we had years, months at least since the last war for sure, you know,

to develop our target deck and like really go through and figure out, okay, these are the strategic things that we've got to take out in order to give ourselves an advantage. And we did that. We thought we did. You know, we did our best, I guess. And this time, like,

there's just no way they've developed anything like that. And the targets they're hitting, I guarantee you, like if they're not bouncing missiles effectively off of granite mountains still, they're hitting a bunch of things that are back online a week later or that we really don't know

with very much certainty what's even in them. And so, you know, we... Look, it's kind of ironic, actually, right? Because, like, if Putin, when he had invaded Ukraine had for some reason, just this artificial arbitrary deadline set on that war. Like I got to have this thing over by September.

I got midterms. I got this. I got the world economy. I got all these things. This thing, we're on a timeline. And this is how long we have to try to accomplish our mission. They would have definitely lost the war, but it probably would have been better for them if that was case,

you know, like better for the Russian people and whatnot. And here we have done that. You know, we've been signaling from the very beginning of this. thing to the Iranian regime that all you got to do is hold out for a few months maybe something you know and as long as you can do that then you're going to be able to at least have an equal say in the terms at the very least an equal say in the terms of how this thing is settled but it's just a is it's just an insane no-win situation man like there's just we're pursuing a policy that has already failed once when we had,

when we had all the time in the world to plan it and prepare it and to, you know, get everything in place and, and to surprise them, you know, hit them with a surprise attack and throw their leadership into disarray while we did it. And like, we're just following the same failed path without any of those previous advantages that we thought we had.

It's just, it makes no, no sense, which is why last week and for the last few weeks, you know, people asked me, and I said on this show, like, do I think this is going to go back to, like, high intensity, full-scale war? No, because that doesn't make any sense, which is what I said when people thought, you know, Russia was going to invade Ukraine. I said, now that it doesn't make any sense, you know, I just over and over and over, like, this is what always happens to me. Oh, Anna Cooper. Yeah, I'm naive and optimistic all the time to a fault. And, you know, they say, like,

in the stock market, that the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. That applies to geopolitics too, man. Yeah. Yeah, I'm afraid that's right. But, you know, I mean, you're right, though, that this is not quite the war of March, as bad as it is. And it has been, at the time that we're doing this live, and for people watching this later, this is, you know, on after three days of strikes here that we're talking now. But I think, yeah, as far as what Vance says, it fits with my theory from before, I guess our theory from before that,

well, no, this was my speculation, that they know that there's going to be ongoing problems between Israel and Hezbollah and Lebanon, and they know that there's going to be ongoing problems between us and Iran in the Gulf, but that they've already essentially accepted that and maybe even, like, whispered about that to each other, that, like, look, we know that that's going to be a thing.

And yet they're still on the path toward the 60-day or whatever it is. And Trump already said he's soft on the deadline. It's not a hard deadline. But that they're still working toward that ultimate compromise because they know they have to. And, you know, Vance's comment seemed to reaffirm that. That this is still just, you know, scratches along the path or whatever on the line, but the line is still moving forward toward.

Well, because both sides are like kind of ultimately in the same position, right? Which is we cannot, like, we have to get them to agree to keep the straight open. We cannot force them to do it. Yeah. They cannot force us to stop just showing up every few months or so and bombing a whole bunch of crap. I mean, it's not like they're going to go bomb the naval yard in Norfolk or something, you know. So it really is like a situation of like, like how long do the two sides want to do this?

At what point does it become, you know, and it has, this is the hard part probably is that this has to happen at the same time for both sides for it to work, is what time does it become politically advantageous for them to take a step back, you know? And again, like the hard part is that has to happen for both sides at the same time for it to work. But, yeah, it's just, this thing seems to be going just sort of,

you're treading water, you know? Unless something happens Like if we wander too close With an aircraft carrier or something And they get a lucky shot off and take it out Something that like forces us into a serious escalation It seems like we're just going to be Kind of treading water for a while

As both sides sort of Oh really like our side Really just doesn't want to admit defeat And the other side Doesn't want to give us a way out That that you know doesn't make us do that. So hopefully one of those two things breaks down.

Yeah. Well, and it seemed like it's important that, well, this isn't important, but notable, I guess, kind of. That when Rogan asked him, would you have done it? He refused to say that. He's like, look, my job is not to be a Monday morning quarterback, which is a nice way of saying, hell no, I would not have done this. But what do you want me to say here, pal, which is, you know, which I think is right.

I don't think anybody would have done this other than Trump at this time. Again, W. Bush passed on the opportunity numerous times, and he wanted to. He basically realized the facts of life. I mean, even Rubio, who, Rubio's, you know, he's been kind of until very recently, like, you know, people would list him off right next to Lindsey Graham and John McCain is one of the, you know, hawks who just, even he told him not to do it. So, I mean, you know, yeah, it had to be Trump, which, is why the Israelis are so intent on squeezing every last bit of juice that they can out of this

thing right now because, I mean, they understand that they're not going to be able to get anybody else to do this. And, you know, it's a, yeah. Look, you know what, this is just a pet peeve of mine. But like, where he says, you know, geez, I just got to humble myself before God's plan. When like, no, this is Donald Trump. made this decision here. And like, you want to retreat as vice president of the United States in this elected political government.

You want to sit here and invoke the winds of time. Well, Father Time launched this war. You see, it was all part of God's plan back when he created the universe that ultimately this war would come to fruition in the early 26. I'm sorry, dude.

You don't get to talk to me like that. It's such bullshit. Yeah, the idea that like this is all just us being dragged along by like, you know, the winds of history. It's so ridiculous. Like, take some responsibility. And granted, like, I get it. It wasn't his decision.

You know, he argued against it. I get all that. But then don't go out and, you know, don't go say anything. But I guess that's his job. And again, if you, you know, if you don't want to do that job, you probably shouldn't be the vice president. So. Right. Although, boy, once you take the job as vice president,

you basically can't resign that one unless for corruption reasons. or whatever. I mean, technically, honestly, like, when I say that it's not your job as vice president, you know, it, the thing is, like, the president cannot fire the vice president. The vice president was elected.

He could go do that. He's actually in a unique position to be able to go do something like that. It's just, um, you know, when I say that, that they, that they're, that vice presidents don't do that.

That's really just like a tradition. It's like a custom, you know? But, but honestly, like nobody's better position to do it than the vice president. president if you want to. That would be kind of crazy, but, you know, and you'd have to have either, you would either have to be content with the fact that your political career is over after your term as vice president or that, you know, you'd have to be really, you'd have to be really confident that, you know, the public's going to come down on your side and that your

party's going to, at least the base, going to come down. And like, I just don't think that's a case now unfortunately there's still just too many people in the republican base who were going to you know go along with whatever trump says so yeah well and he he didn't have any power inside the executive branch that the president doesn't grant him and right could revoke him so he could give one good speech and then he could sit alone in a closet for the rest of his two and a half years i mean he could give speeches for the next two and a half years but you know they would but those speeches would be like well this is what i heard because i'm not allowed in any of the meetings anymore.

He's sitting over in his Senate office as president of the Senate doing nothing. All right. Well, oh, but then, so look, the important part was he invoked Ola Mike Pence by name. Says my predecessor in this office, you know, criticizing me for seeking this deal.

And he's referring to other, you know, Fox News Hawks. And then he challenged him. What's your plan? Let's hear it. he says Joe Rogan you and your friends with a couple of RPGs could keep that straight closed the only thing that could keep that thing open is an agreement with the government of Iran to keep it open right like that's it man they can shut it down for pennies so they're so you tell me then what to do mr. Pence who says this ain't good enough like let's hear specifics I didn't think so

and he's totally right about that and it's the same as what we talked about last week where right before we started the show I had just done an interview with Danny Davis where he played a clip of Keith Kellogg demanding unconditional surrender and it was like yeah but we didn't win so we can't demand that dude

and so but look and I'm not sitting here again because I know people hate JD Vance I don't trust the guy at all either I don't know if I hate him yet I certainly don't trust the guy I don't think even that his instincts

are usually right necessarily, like, I don't know. But I do think that he volunteered for this job because he thought that this war was bad and that he thought it would be good for him, even, to be involved in trying to end the thing. And I'm taking my silver linings where I can get them. And I don't think that what he was saying on Rogan there

was posturing in a way that's deceptive. It is posturing in a way that is simply telling the war party to back off. It was President Donald Trump told me to do this. So stop calling me an anti-Semite. stop saying I hate Israel and stop saying that I'm a bad person for seeking a peace deal here just because it's not what Benjamin Netanyahu wants. I'm serving Donald Trump, which I think is totally honest for him to do that. And it seemed like he was actually under a lot of strain, not from anti-war people accusing him of selling out, but from pro-war people accusing him

of selling Israel out. And apparently he's feeling that pressure a lot and was kind of lashing out against that, said, y'all go to hell, man. I'm here to represent America first, which ain't exactly right. It's, again, whatever, it's political posturing, but it's important that that's what he feels he has to do and say, because that's the cloud that he's under, right? He's under pressure from you and me. He's under pressure from the Lakut, you know? Yeah, and their agents in the U.S., which he was pretty direct in saying, you know, we're basically part of an Israeli influence operation to attack him and subvert and undermine the deal. You know, I saw somebody responding to that on Twitter, you know, and first of all, like, just saying,

he's, like, you know, just he's, he's repeating some kind of anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. Like, there's a Jewish cabal that is working together behind the scenes to try to, to try to undermine this deal. It's like, well, I mean, he's the vice president. Like, he's in the room. Like, if it's happening, he's not just sort of, like, reading on 4chan, like, that this is going on. Like he knows he's seeing the intelligence reports. Like it was in the New York Times or whatever. One of the main papers of record recently that the Israelis were using a lot of influence,

paying people over here to try to swing things their way. So I don't really see what the big deal on that is. But, you know, it's one of the things I find really telling is that, you know, when he questions Israeli policy or Israeli desire for American policy to go a certain way and all of a sudden starts getting attacked by all the usual suspects as an anti-Semite, it's like they're sort of giving their game away here

because what they're doing, I mean, look, like, I know lots of Jews who don't like this war at all. And so if you're insisting that by criticizing the people who are in favor of this war or saying that, you know, a lot of them are part of an influence operation, you know, to subvert the peace deal or to attack him, that you're somehow attacking the Jews. That's like they're purposely swapping out Zionists,

which is what they mean with the Jews. And all they're doing is using regular Jews, the accountant down the street, as human shields for their political faction. And, you know, that's what they have always done. And I really think that it just does not work anymore. I mean, it works to the extent that, like, if you're a guy who's got a traditional media career and it depends on you being on Fox News

and getting published in, you know, the Wall Street Journal or whatever else, then yeah, they can hurt you. But in general, like people who aren't in that like very specific sort of mainstream track, which, you know, those track, people on those tracks are always very visible. So, you know, it seems, I think, like they have a lot more control than they really do. Because under the service, nobody's buying. that stuff anymore and nobody cares and jadie vance for all of you know the the valid criticisms about maybe like the things he's been involved with and and the way he's handled some of these situations he's not a stupid person and he's pretty politically astute i think and he would not be going out there and talking like that lest he thought that the people who you know were going to freak out

have no power you know to to enforce that so um like you know i think uh i saw today online ben Shapiro came out and he was just, I will not be supporting J.D. Vance, you know, da, da, da, da, da, da. I don't think that hurts him at all. I really don't. I don't think that hurts him at all. Oh, hell. Was it 2015 when they put out the National Review story of Never Trump and all those guys? And my first response, I tweeted at Jonah Goldberg and I says, did Donald Trump pay you to do this? This is so obviously in his favor. But what do you mean? The worst people in the world don't like him. I mean, come on, are you kidding? Ben Shapiro denounced this JD Vance.

Maybe I need to take a second look at this Vance guy. I don't know how anyone else could possibly react to that. You know what I mean? Other than, geez, whatever this. Winy little C-word is complaining about. Like, must be okay. I didn't mean to call Ben Shapiro cancer. That's unfair.

But, listen, Time Magazine has this important piece, Dero Cooper. And it's called Trump's ex-campaign manager is running an Israeli influence operation targeting the MAGA base. Now, if we're going to continue? Yeah. Parscale. Is that who that is? Par scale, yeah. So before we continue, I must say that there are a lot of other people who have done this story before who don't get credit in it.

And I'm not sure who all. I'm willing to bet Max Blumenthal. I'm like 90% sure Max Blumenthal has done some work on this guy. And maybe the drop site guy. Blumenthal's, he's the one. I mean, I'm sure there's been lots, but Blumenthal's kicked ass on this, on this exact thing.

Salem Media and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people really do that to him a lot, man. They publish his work months later and don't give him credit at all, you know, which sucks. Anyway, this is one we got before us here, and it's in Time Magazine,

and it is about how they're targeting J.D. Vance and how it's this pseudo-decentralized, but not really. you know, pretend a decentralized group of influencers online who are all doing the same thing at the same time. And it all traces back to this group by Parscale, which again, Clock Tower X, which is a registered for an agent for Israel.

Clock Tower X, is that like a University of Texas reference? What the hell is that? Or maybe back to the future? But they can inflate what they're doing with fighting anti-Semitism. What it's not that. They're fighting for Israel's interest is all that they're talking about here. It has nothing to do with anti-Semitic anything. See here, the campaign was framed as an effort to combat rising anti-Semitism online.

But then, so check this out, man. Was this the paragraph that I like so much? I tweeted one of these the other day. It's further down here where they say, look, the danger here, is that people like Tucker Carlson and even Stephen Bannon are normalizing these anti-Israel attitudes on the right. And that is very bad because that could lend itself to supporting an isolationist foreign policy,

which is their smear, of course, for non-interventionist foreign policy or non-imperial foreign policy. And they say that, well, that's against Israel's interests. America coming home. They can't have that at all. Here they quote Charlie Kirk's letter to Netanyahu

warning him about how bad things were getting there I think before he started changing his mind. Or maybe at the start of when he was changing his mind. Where is this dang paragraph I'm looking forward to quote for you here that all I can do so far is paraphrase. It's in here. I could do control F, couldn't I? No, I already passed it.

I passed it. God dang it. Hang on. Bannon. Bannon. Where are you, man? So by last fall, Daryl Cooper, by last fall, Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, see, oh, and this is according to the ministry official that they're talking to. They have a source inside the Israeli foreign ministry is the source of this knowledge that we're getting from this paragraph here that I'm quoting.

That highlight of anti-Semites as everybody knows. Yeah, they're the worst. by last fall Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs according to a member of it had concluded that its conventional public diplomacy efforts known in Israel as Hasbara

were woefully insufficient. That's an anti-Semitic lie. Hasbara is not a real thing. I've been assured of this. They were worried that Carlson and Bannon and their influence and the suspicion taking hold among young conservatives

that Israel exercised hidden control over America's foreign policy, according to the foreign ministry official. And they feared that Vance and his allies were steering the American right toward an isolationism fundamentally at odds with Israel's strategic interest.

You know, there's two things... They wanted someone who understood this and that and whatever. But wait, so the point being there is this is why we can't have peace. Yeah. For all the influences is continuing, you know, pushing the American Empire to continue rolling on. Zionism is one of them, a very important one.

They're not willing to let America come home from anywhere because then we might get a taste for that and then would be unavailable to protect Israel. It doesn't matter whether it's good for the people of Idaho. It doesn't matter whether it's good for the people of Texas or Kansas or Colorado or New York. What's important for Israel is that America stay globally engaged as the world empire. Yeah, although, you know, that's, even that is, you remember back when Elbridge Colby got appointed to the State Department and a bunch of the same usual suspects tried to get him torpedoed.

And he's not, he's furthest thing from an isolationist. He just thinks we should be turning our guns on China. Like, that's all. and they went after him like the same people, like the exact same people went after him in really harsh terms too. It shows you they're not concerned about isolationism. They're concerned about us not being engaged here.

And you're right. You know, if we did come home, if we did disengage from this stuff, I mean, it's like anything else. It's like working out or staying sober or eating well or anything. Like it's a lot easier to keep doing it than to fall off the wagon and then get yourself back to it.

Like, it's kind of a reverse of this, but like, you know, if we were home, like it's a lot easier to say we can't withdraw from the Middle East than it is to be like, you know, we need to send our troops into the Middle East. Like that's a totally different argument and really hard to convince people of, you know? And, you know, the only thing I would have really objected to in that paragraph, like in terms of the way it was framed is that it's a hidden influence effort. I mean, it's not hidden at all, especially with this administration. You know, I guess you could at least say that for him.

I mean, it's right out in the open. But, you know, again, like the good news is it's not working. It's just not working. Like, the fact that Time magazine is talking about HOSPR, like, writing that article at all, is, you know, like, and when they talk about people like Bannon, and maybe not Tucker. Tucker, you know, the Gaza thing has, like, really radicalized Tucker. in important ways. And so he's, you know, he's, he's pushing from, like, his own self-motivation on this,

like, you know, to a great degree. Like, he's telling people what he believes and how he feels because he feels very strongly about it. Somebody like Bannon, a lot of these other people who are kind of in his orbit, you know, they're not, they're not out there convincing people of these, of these things. They're just reflecting what is going on, right? Right. On the right, in America. You know, they're reflecting.

important though, right? I mean, just look, this is the crucial role that you play too, is that you give license to other conservatives to look askance at Israel without getting hippie juice on them. Nobody wants to stink like pechule. Nobody

wants to, their cousin to think that they're a college communist now. But like, no, man, you should check out this guy, Darrell Cooper. Makes it okay. That's what it is. It's the pure social psychology of the thing. If Steve Bannon is willing to question them, I mean, he's of pretty green conservative, man.

You know? That is an important function. And I was on, I was on with Orrin McIntyre last week. And I made the, I saw that. Yeah, and I think it was last week, whenever it was.

I made the point to him that, like, one of the important functions that people like him meet to a lesser degree, I mean, here on this show, we do it, but I've been pulling back from social media lately. But just people sort of, who are on the right and with us on this issue and some of these other issues,

like the important function that we play is, you know, there's a, you're dealing with, you're not just countering Brad Parscale's propaganda machine. You're running up against the fact that, when people were 11 years old in sixth grade, their teacher made them watch Schindler's list, you know?

And they have these built-in things that when somebody calls you an anti-Semite, it doesn't matter if you're critic, Not even Israel. You're just criticizing one political party in Israel, whatever. They call you an anti-Semite. People have these dinkly embedded, like emotional triggers that just get flipped. And it's really hard for them. If they start to have a thought of like, I'm not so sure that I can agree with this anymore. And I just saw somebody get called an anti-Semite for what I kind of think. They run up against that blockage. And when they go online and all they see are people who don't like Jews, and just, you know, are really sort of using Israel as, you know, like, you know, it's not that they are upset with what Israel's doing and therefore they have a problem with like what, you know, the organized Jewish American community, the organizations and stuff, how they're contributing to that.

It's sort of the opposite way. They don't like Jews. And so they're sort of using what Israel's doing as an opportunity to bang them over the head. when people go online and that's what they see, those triggers get flipped and they just pull back. And they're like, okay, yeah, I guess I'm on Ben Shapiro's side because I'm not on this side. It's important to have people out there to tell them that, like,

no, there's actually, you can work around those triggers. You know, just because you think this, here are ways you can talk about it, ways you can think about it, that, you know, you don't have to feel that way. You don't have to respond to those accusations because you can know that you're coming at this from, you know, from a place that's, you know, that's not sort of a, you know, a preconceived place of hatred. And you can, as long as you're doing that, you know, you can, you can state it with confidence. And you have to, you have to offer people sort of the

pathway, the arguments, the, you know, the narratives so that they can actually not even, not even debated online or talk to their friends at the water cooler at work or anything like that. But in their own mind, you know, have to feel like, you know, nobody wants to feel, I mean, even Hitler in Mind Kampf, you know, he has this one part where he's describing like his early, how his anti-Semitism developed. And even he talked about how when he was younger, he's like, I'd have these thoughts, but I was always like really afraid. Like, am I being unjust here? And then, of course, he decided to convince himself, no, I'm not being unjust at all. But even anybody, you know, anybody. Like, nobody thinks of themselves as the bad guy. And if they

can't figure out a way to think about something that doesn't, you know, make them feel like the back, then they won't think it. They'll just repress it. When you got it one or two, you and them and everybody should also wonder about all those vile comments and how much of that is just Cointel Pro BS from the Israeli foreign ministry also. They're like, yeah, I agree with Daryl. Down with the Jews. Like, oh, come on. That's not what he was saying. You know what I mean? Yeah, and they're always in their, and they use it. too to like, you know, they'll use it to, they're always sort of probing the defenses like a velociraptor on the electric fence,

like trying different ways, different angles to figure out how to attack from, you know, as the public mind sort of adapts to what they're doing. And so, well, you know, like a good example of this on the right is they'll come and they'll call you a third worldist or you're just like a muzzle. lover or all these things that are going to work on somebody who's like part of the online right or whatever. But then you go and look at like all of that person's comments and you realize this is a complete AstroTurf account. Like that's all this person does is go on and defend Israel from the right by attacking people as Muslim lovers or whatever it is. And so they do that.

There's, you know, look, they're not as smart as they used to be, but they're still pretty smart. And, you know, we're smarter though. So. All right, so now is the part of the show where I remind you about expatmoney.com slash provoked. We do two spots per show for them. That's right. Expat.moneys.com. Slavoked, and you get this free booklet.

Plan B, residences and instant citizenships for, you know, worst case scenario. Man, you've got to protect your neck. Or maybe you're just trying to protect yourself from inflation, which is what we're about to talk about in a second. So I rage against J.D. Vance's ignorant communists. But then also, I got to take it. tell you about good old Matt Sersely. He's at agoristtaxadvice.com and he's a great sponsor of the show as well.

And I forgot if we got a promo code or anything, but tell him Scott and Daryl sent you. And he'll hook you up a good deal. And basically, if you run a small business or you're a professional with a high end type salary and you're trying to protect your neck from the IRS revenues, come to take all what you work for, then what you do is you go to Matt Sersley and he will make sure that you hang on to every last penny that you legally can. That's agoristaxadvice.com, and we're very grateful for Matt's support of the show here. And okay, a couple more things about old vice president, man, before we... Can I real quick, just respond to one of the commenters real quick?

You know, I've seen this some version of this couple times. He said, according to Daryl, is there like any... It's up there now. I haven't seen... I don't know exactly word for what it is. Is there ever any reason to despise a group because of X, Y, or Z, whatever? And my answer to that is, I mean, the answer is no, first of all, but I would, you know, I would place a lot of stress on the fact that, you know,

the reason you avoid hatred is not because it's good for the other party. You do it because hatred is bad for you. It corrupts your own soul. It clouds your thinking. It makes you a worse person. Like, and I don't mean like worse, according to some. social standard that you need to be ashamed of, I mean, actually worse. Like, it makes you stupider. It makes you less rational. It makes you just sort of, it bleeds over into your other

relationships and the things you think about other things. You have to be able to approach these things, you know, with a certain dispassionate attitude. Don't let them drag you into. What do you think they're trying to do when they call you an anti-Semite or a racist or anything like that? They're trying to get you into a fight so that you hate them. And now you're playing in their world. Like, you can't fall for that. That's just, that's how I feel about it. So no, the answer is no. You should not hate any group. I mean, even if it was a uniform group,

which no group is, even if it was, hatred is still bad for you. You know, it just that's how you have to think. Can I hate vice presidents? Oh, individual people. I mean, maybe you can get away with, especially public figures like that, but no, I don't know.

Listen, man, I'm Empire Strikes Back Loop. Hate the office, not the man. I'll tell you what pissed me off about that interview on the Joe Rogan show. Well, first, a little credit, and this is important. This is going to be controversial. I don't know if anybody's making a big deal about it yet, but Jady Vance did say that Epstein was clearly connected to Mossad, which is true.

I mean, he must have just read journalism about that. DropSight News, Ryan Grim and Murtaza Al-Qaeda have the best stuff on this over there at DropSight. But they got many episodes of him working directly with Mossad on all different projects all around the world. And the vice president of United States said that. You know, he claimed to be a deep researcher into all things Epstein. And that was, I think, the most important thing that he said about it. If you want to comment more on that, go ahead. But, I mean, he was careful to say, you know, that he clearly had connections to people involved with.

You know, he didn't, he was careful not to say that, you know, anything that he was doing that we do or don't know about. I think he raised the question about blackmail and stuff like that. said we don't know for sure, but like a lot of people think so and stuff. Like he was giving it credibility, I thought. Yeah, I mean, look, JD, he reads the comments. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if he has time to do it now, but he was doing it for years. I mean, he still follows me on X.

Like, he has for many years, even after he got challenged by a journalist after my Tucker interview. And, you know, they wrote about it in an article too. Like, you know, this is one of the evil, terrible, fascist awful people that J.D. Vance follows me and he's been questioned about a few times. He still does. I mean, he's aware of this stuff. You know, the things people are saying. So yeah, I mean,

he's, you know, when he says people are saying that, he knows that it's a, it's a ground swam. It's a lot of people. So. Yeah. All right, but then now I got to rant about the economic discussion on there, which like, I get it. Not everybody's a libertarian and J.D. is trying to strike a Buchananite type pose on protectionism on behalf of workers and whatever, supposedly,

you know, trying to find common ground with Bernie Sanders there against free trade and all that. But the thing is, the whole time he's ranting against cronyism, and him and Rogan are both agreeing that the young kids today are turning to socialism because of how corrupt capitalism is. He keeps saying that over and over. If we don't fix this, we're going to get communism. If we don't fix this, we're on the road of socialism. But the whole time, he makes it sound like he's Akami.

And that Marx is right that it's the historical inevitability that we'll all end up at communism. And that we're only just trying to stave that future off, even though that's the ultimate positive destiny of mankind, apparently. But for some reason, maybe because he's such a right-wing backwards reactionary, he's trying to prevent that glorious future from coming all the way to fruition. and we've got to find ways to stay with the whole god dang time he never says but the problem with that show is communism is already what's wrong with our system control over the economy rather than participation in it by power and communism is just more of that and so it only means that whatever

is wrong with the economy now because power is dicta. Prices and resources, those same problems are just going to be magnified that much worse. So the perils of crony capitalism include, yes, pushing people to socialism, which is just more of the same thing. That's all crony capitalism is. Socialism for people who already have successful businesses, but not everybody else. So they think the solution to that is to spread more that around so we have full communism? And he doesn't explain why, like, no, but see, that would be a big mistake. That would be a huge logical fallacy. That would be, you know, causing, that'd be, you know, eating the same poison that's making you sick as the cure, you know? And he never says that.

He makes it sound like, of course, we're supposed to be communists. But for some reason, he's trying to slow our transition to that or whatever. The whole thing was maddening. And then he says, you know, and the problem is, you got these communists, and then you got these crazy libertarians. And what we need really is the third way. The third way, that's Bill Clintonism. Hey, we've got enough context for that, too. Hey, don't take that from me.

What in the fucking world? I just, God dang, I want a headbutt this guy. If he doesn't know stuff, he should not talk about it. I mean, well, look, I think. to say that we know, we're in a period of like very, very dramatic transition right now that, like technological and economic, that and social, I think, I don't know.

I think that it, you know, it doesn't overthrow, like the Austrian analysis of the importance of price signals or something like that. Like all of that basic theory still applies. But, like, I don't know if it's necessarily true, because we don't have any like counter examples really. Like, I don't know if it's necessarily true that the problems that people complain about the economy, the unfairness of it or the concentration of wealth

or any of that is, you know, just purely due to government interference. It may have been at one point. Of course. But I mean, it's entirely, why is it not entirely possible that like a technological change could come over society that just it's something that only, you know, large organizations,

or ultra-wealthy individuals can really access and take advantage of. And if they do, it provides such a massive advantage that it leads to, like, a huge concentration that eventually is going to get overthrown by people who don't like it. That's possible. I don't think the only possible explanation for why people would find the economy unfair is that the government is making it that way. I just, I don't know if that's necessarily true. No, dude, you're wrong. It's all inflation.

Everything that everyone complains about is because of inflationary money. Joe Rogan and J.D. Vance's entire discussion was about the destructive effects of inflationary money and what government should do to solve the problems caused by inflationary money. And they do actually mention inflation for a moment at the end, but they never question that that's the basis of our entire monetary system is that the banks are licensed by the government to create money out of nothing as long as they promise to buy bonds when the government creates money out of nothing. So they can all go to war and bail each other out. And it's this massive error. I mean, as Ron Paul says, they've nationalized one half of every transaction is the money. And it's a huge corrupting

factor. So, for example, one of the hugest issues of our time is illegal immigration. And as J.D. Vance and Joe Rogan discuss in their conversation. Yeah, but big business says, but we need that illegal immigration because it relieves upward pressure on wages. Well, where is all that upward pressure on wages coming from? They debase the money. And in fact, the poorest wage earners, the hourly wage earners, They're the very last ones in the entire economy to get a cost of living increase, 25 cents a week or whatever is their insignificant little raise, and then they get blamed for causing inflation.

And if you run Tyson Chicken, or you run Cargill or Archer Daniels Midland or Monsanto or these giant agribusiness firms, or you run a chain of hotels or whatever it is, then your overhead costs for your labor are everything. That's your entire margin of everything. Don't forget all your income taxes and all your property taxes and all your sales taxes and all the regulations you have to obey and everything about that. And then comes the inflation to basing the currency all the time. So the citizen is fired and the

illegal immigrant is hired to do the same job for less because they're the inflation fighter. And then what does that mean? Well, now we need a totalitarian police state to check the the employment records of every business in the country to make sure that they don't have a bunch of illegal immigrants. And now we need to have know your customer regulations to oversee every bank transaction because we got to make sure that nobody's being paid under the table. And now, whatever it is. And of course, the ice raids and people shot. Another guy got shot the other day. A guy that wasn't the guy they were looking for who panicked and drove off and they shot him the other day in Maine. All of that is all downhill consequences. from the government printing money all day. Same as the wars. They can't have wars. All your buddies who came home missing limbs and with their heads all screwed up,

they couldn't have had George Bush's war in Iraq if they had to raise taxes. Instead, remember what they did? They gave everybody a $200 and a $300 rebate. Every income taxpayer got an extra rebate check in the mail in 2003 and 4, as though it was your dividend from all the profit we were making

from invading Iraq. When they printed that money to pay for that war, that they could have never started if they had to raise your taxes in order to pay for it. And all the consequences downhill from the invasion of Iraq, from the wars in Libya and Syria and the Islamic State and Yemen and everything that's happened since then to all the effects at home from all the disruption, all the opportunity costs, all the traumatic brain injury and all the everything else that's flown from all of that. And for that matter, the entire national police state runs on inflationary money,

every bit of it. ATF kicking in this guy, Malinowski's door and blowing his head off at 6 o'clock in the morning, paid with inflationary dollars. If people had to pay taxes for this national leviathan, we would not have one. And so that's it. But don't you, I mean, and I don't, now I'm in the Pessman bus cycle. It causes the Great Depression every 10 years. When everybody who's finally getting up on their feet gets the rug pulled out from under him and have to take a slam and start all over again. 10 years. I mean, doesn't this, and now I'm being the pessimist, but doesn't this kind of feel like when I, it feels like when I, when I see people who say like, you know, democracy, Republican form of government, whatever, is fine. But man, we got to get rid of the 19th Amendment. It's like, well,

the women are like 55% of the voters now. So forget about it. It's just not going to happen. Like if you want that, then what you're going to have to do is have like a dictatorship. because it's the only way you're going to do. I have to get rid of the system completely and have a dictatorship that imposes that. With this, it's like, you know, like inflation, yeah, it serves all these purposes. You know what other purpose it serves

is the fact that like there's more debt out there than could possibly be paid off. And if we just went into full liquidation mode right now and told people that, look, in the long run, trust us, this is going to be better for everybody. Yeah, a lot of you, in fact, tens of millions of you, maybe you're going to have your lives completely ruined. But don't worry, your grandkids are going to have a much better time of it.

There's just people aren't going to go for that. It's like JD was saying. They're going to vote for Bernie Sanders who says, you know, the problem here is that, you know, you don't have enough help paying for college or whatever it is. I mean, as long as we have a democracy, you have to deal with that reality. And as much as I, you know, look, I love when Ron Paul would get up on stage and talk about the Fed and all of these things. And all the stuff you're saying just now, like criticizing the, just the consequences of

of the yacht currency and the inflation. All that stuff is definitely true. I mean, we wouldn't have gone into Iraq if they had to raise a new tax to do it. All that stuff's true. But to walk it back, like I just don't know if there is a way within a democratic system

to unwind all of this stuff that really has been over a century in the making. You know, I mean, it's... No time like the present. All you can do is make it worse and I'm sorry because I left out the most important thing, which is housing and the cost of living and the cost of literally living indoors in the country right now in terms of rents and prices as a percentage of income and all this is generation Z is screaming. The average price of first-time

home ownership now is 40, which I've probably skewed that number quite a bit myself, being a 50-year-old buying a house right now. But this is a huge one and you're right. when this is what you're talking about when you're saying, you know, all these people who aren't ready to take a hit, what you're talking about is, I believe your implication was all these people who are sitting in homes with inflated prices who, if we let the free market rule, then they would face a correction. They would lose a lot of their equity that is built up in another big bubble, the same one that's keeping younger people out of the market. The only solution of that is let prices fall and repeal all the zoning that prevents new housing from being developed and allow the market

to provide housing for people. Instead, Donald Trump himself said, I mean, you cannot blame this on free market capitalism, Darrell Cooper. The president of the United States said, no, no, no, we want to juice the market. We want to keep housing prices high because those baby boomers, they have all of their wealth saved up in their homes. And we can't let those prices go down. And if those prices are just too high for young people, then he adds, who just don't want to work hard enough to get in one, well, that's just too bad for them.

He literally went ahead and finished the sentence. And the younger, poorer people, screw them. But here's the point, though, is it ain't the baby boomers responsible for this. It's the national government responsible for this. They've made it illegal to save money. They have outlawed interest rates, right? They have had interest rates near zero for 25 years.

they've only just very recently raised them, but even now, try and open a savings account at your local thing. They won't, they'll give you 1%. I don't know why, but you can't even get a 5% interest rate on your savings account. It's illegal to have a savings account. You have to invest in the stock market or in shit coins or in at least your house. And then they tell you well, but the equity, your house will continue to go up in value, even as it gets older and older and rained on and rained on. It'll still go up and up in value. And so this is the only place for you to put all of your wealth. is into your home. And so that's not the free market. They've been forced by the national government

into that position. And now they're the ones who are going to have to take the haircut in order for young people to not have to live under a fucking bridge. No doubt, it's not free market capitalism. I don't need to be convinced to that. But I guess I just think like,

I don't know. We have to deal with reality as we find it. Like we're not arguing whether or not we should go down this road. Like, we're arguing whether or not it's possible to step off the road at this point, uh, in, in a way that doesn't create so much chaos and instability in people's lives that what comes

out the other side is worse than what we've got now. Because that happens. Like, you know, I think we have this like sort of rose colored view of a lot of this stuff in America because we had sort of an idealic situation over here relative to a lot of other countries in the world. And the industrial revolution happened, you know, over here, not that we did this completely, but to a degree, like, we could kind of let the chips fall where they made. We had cheap land. We had, you know, a labor shortage rather than a labor surplus for most of our history up until

about the 1970. We had a lot of, like, natural advantages here that allowed us to sort of smooth out the disruptions that were caused by the industrial revolution. In Europe, that wasn't the case everywhere. You had the Russian Revolution. You had like a lot of these things like the, the instability that was created in people's lives by a lot of this did not always turn out okay. You know, the chips fell where they may and sometimes they fall on the floor. And that's a real possibility, man. Like, you know, especially when like you're going to have a really hard time, not saying that we shouldn't do it if people believe this is the case. You have to go out there and make the case and change public perception over a long period. It would take a long period of time to really like change public

perception on this stuff. But, you know, if you were to go out there right now in a presidential or senatorial or whatever, maybe you could get away with it on like a, you know, in a House of Representatives district or something, but a statewide or national election, you went out there and you told those young people who can't buy a house, who can't afford, you know, health insurance or any of these things, you know, here's this like long theoretical history lesson about why all of this is actually the fault of the Federal Reserve and everything. And the answer here is that we're just going to stop doing all that and not help you at all. But on the other side of this, you won't need help.

I mean, you have to get those people to vote for you. And so it's like, until you change everybody's mind, enough people's minds, like really convince them that like, okay, this is, you know, something that we have to just go through. I mean, look, like, the thing is, I agree with you. on all of the theory as well as like the history and stuff that you're saying. Our disagreement on this is really like largely political. It's like what is politically possible and what would be the consequences of taking these steps and allowing things to, I mean, think about like...

Well, look, just go back to 2008. We had a massive correction in housing in 2008 and they bailed out all the bankers and all the insurance companies. And a lot of regular people got wiped out. a lot of artificially inflated housing values went back to where they should have belonged. And then what they do? QE, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and reinflated the housing bubbles. Then came COVID and they, you know, spent, this wasn't even the Fed, this was just the Congress,

spent trillions of new dollars into circulation during COVID to bail out everybody and the corporations and everybody else too during COVID. the massive increase in the money supply, at the same time that the Democrats are chasing people that hell out of Democrat states. So you have massive booms in real estate in places like Austin and wherever. So if we allow prices to rule in a free market now,

then I don't know why we should expect a worse crash than what happened in 2008. Because, like, think about it. Although maybe we were to allow in bailouts of those bankers. If we were to allow interest rates to just flow, Because, like, I don't think, I don't know, like, if we just go back to the gold standard and fire everybody at the Fed, I don't know what would happen there necessarily. But if we were to just let interest rates float, which is, like, one step more realistic than that, I mean, the federal government, most states and most municipalities would go bankrupt the next day. Like, they would go bankrupt.

The banks would go out of business. I mean, they're all dependent on their U.S. treasuries and they would get defaulted on. I mean, just the entire financial system and the global financial system, not just ours, because the whole thing is built on the U.S. dollar, would completely collapse. I mean, it would completely fall apart. Not just the housing market, not just a few banks, the government decides not to bail out. There's not going to be any bailouts. There won't be anybody to bail out the U.S. federal government.

And so if that happened, there's not going to be anybody to bail out China's sovereign wealth fund or whatever. So if that all happens all at once, I think we just have to be very, very careful. careful about being so certain about how that would turn out on the other side. I mean, you know, people when they're, because you talk about 2008, right? Like, I think about somebody in my, my wife's a little, a few years younger than me. Her generation graduates, or she was a sophomore in high school when 9-11 happened. She graduates and, you know, her whole generation, her whole graduating class is looking for jobs and they're competing with 540-year-olds, with 20 years of experience, you know, because they all got laid off during the financial crisis.

They finally start to get back on their feet and COVID happens, which granted, that's a government-created crisis, like, through and through, true. But my point is, if you expose people to that kind of just instability, they're going to demand some, they're going to demand that somebody take power who tells them that I can fix this. I can take control of this situation, even if they're full of shit. Like they're going to follow that person. It's happened again and again and again. And so stability, I think stability has to be the number one concern. If we get to a place, maybe by certain reforms rolling back certain things to, you know,

to make the decade-long business cycle, like not so, you know, bipolar, like, oh, it's going to be bipolar, but, you know what I mean, so manic depressive as it is, whatever the reforms would be, like once we achieve like a certain level of stability, then you can go talk to people in a rational, theoretical way and explain these things. Because all people know right now is they can, they're barely holding it together. And that is what they're voting on.

They're not voting on like, how are things, you know, going to be like 30 years from now after the global debt, you know, default and everything else sort of washes out? Like they're, you know, if you tell them, like, all of this is going to be way better for the rest of human history, but you're going to lose your job and maybe not get one for a long time and your kids are going to live that way and they're they're not going to go you know even if they believe you they're not going to go down that road and so i don't know man i just think like uh it's the baby boomers

who have everything to lose not the young people it's the young people who can't buy a house who need the correction it's the baby boomers who've been fooled into putting their entire savings into their housing and on these hugely inflated price you're not you're not so much inflated price who are going to lose when the next correction comes. And then that'll be the chance for Generation Z to finally own a home. When again, this is the government's policy. I mean, look at it right now. Donald Trump says, we're doing this on purpose.

Well, just stop doing it. How about that? I'd like to have 100% gold standard. But there's no reason to think that it should be like a total catastrophe. It's not like every old person is going to lose their house. It's just it's going to not have the artificially inflated value that they're sitting on, that they're able to refinancing, cash out and redo their... The effect on real estate prices is one.

That's one effect. I mean, okay. But I mean, I think, dude, there have just been like such radical social changes over the past, especially like 50, 60 years that make this such a different situation than would have been dealt with in the past. You know, where... Look at what they're saying. I saw an interview with this guy from the DSA the other day. And they go, so what are you going to do about?

They go, well, we're going to bring democracy into every part of your life. Not just when you vote, but everything about you is going to be democratic now. What? Oh, yeah. This kook knows what prices should be. This guy knows what should be developed and where resources need to go. We already, you know, solved all of this. What's it, 26?

Mises wrote socialism in 1920 about how this idiot doesn't know what prices should be. So why are you listening to him? This makes no sense at all. So the answer is libertarianism. I'm sorry, you could say that like, well, it's really too bad that the great deformation is this great. But still, the only answer is to let it correct and get back to rational pricing. There's no, who is the best Federal Reserve chair to engineer a source? soft landing for us here.

There isn't one, and there is no soft landing. Every time you try to prick the bubble and slowly let the air out, the whole thing pops and crashes, just like Rothbard wrote back in For a New Liberty in 1970, whatever that. 78, I guess. Yeah, but I also, but I think, you know, we're not having the debate over, like, widespread price controls and stuff. That's not really the thing that's being debated. That's not what J.D. Vance is talking about, I don't think.

I don't think he would support something like that. that. I mean, maybe, maybe price controls on things like, you know, money. Not price country, yeah, on money for sure, but like, not price controls, but price influence for sure, maybe on certain things. But, I mean, we're not at a point where it's like Lenin versus Keynes versus Hayek anymore. Like, it's, you know, we're, a lot of those questions have been settled, at least, you know, for the time being. And we're having debates like in the context of those, those questions having been settled. But I think too, man, like, you have to consider also, like, when you went back to like the Great Depression, say, or even the 1970s, the average person, like, knew how to do something.

Like today, all of these people who are working at email jobs in a cubicle that really like 10% of the people in their office do all of the work in the business or the government agency or whatever could do. without 90% of them. They're just, like, those people don't know how to do anything. If those jobs evaporated, if things change, where, like, you tell people, well, don't worry, like, you're going to be able to get paid a living wage by picking strawberries in Oxnard. They're just not going to go for that. Even though, like, I guess I wish they would. Like, you know, people should get, we should get Americans back to work doing real things. But again, like, I keep coming back to the fact that you have to go out on the stump and convince people. to go along with this stuff.

And you have to do it in the face of resistance from every like moneyed interest in the country, in the world, really. I mean, it's just a, I don't know. I think it's one of those things that like, it sounds nice in theory, it is, but there is absolutely just no road from here to there politically.

And, you know, there may be, which is not. to say, by the way, that there's no value in getting these ideas out there because what is going to happen, if you ask me, is we're just going to keep riding this thing until the crash comes and it's inevitable and the whole thing is destroyed because, you know, we hit the point where the government can't make its interest payments and it has no choice but to just super ramp up inflation or whatever they decide to do. And then it is all going to go to chaos. And on the other side of that, then maybe, you know, it'll be good to have a population that's educated in the things

you're talking about. So when we put the pieces back together, they put them back together, right. But in terms of using our political system as it's configured to enact any of these things, I just think that is, I mean, we're debating like how many angels can fit on a pinhead. I just don't think it's something that is a real question. Well, 18 years ago and then again, 12 years ago, We could have elected Dr. Paul. President of the United States. He ran. Yeah, but what would he have been able to get away with?

I mean, you know what? Presidents are pretty powerful. I mean. Hey, everybody. Drink Mundoz artisan coffees. Go to scothorton.org slash coffee, and you'll get Scott Horton flavored coffee. It tastes just like my show.

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You get up in the morning, drink yourself some Scott Horton show flavored coffee, and it's really good. Go to scothorton.org slash coffee for that. And then, wait, I should do one more. The Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom. Guess what, Gerald Cooper? I posted the second and final half of my course on the new Cold War. So it is all there now.

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And, yeah, you guys will like that. His long-form history podcasts. his other essays and spoken soliloquies. And here's my Liberty Stickers. I own Liberty Stickers again. Can you believe it? It's just like back in history, only now, current day. Again, LibertyStickers.com.

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Liberty Stickers.com. Everyone else's stickers suck. And then, yeah, okay, so that's all the ads. Let's talk about, let's talk about news. We do have news. Forget that. Let's talk about, well, we already covered that last week. Let's do a little Ukraine.

Before we wrap up here, you want to? Sure. So this is Moon of Alabama. I got out of the habit of reading Bernard, but he's a really sharp guy, a German analyst of all kinds of things there. Refugees from the old Bill Monn blog there over at Moon of Alabama. And this is called another anti-Western coup.

And this is how Zelensky has sacked the prime minister and replaced him with a guy, supposedly a technocrat, a corporate guy from a natural gas firm. And then he also sacked the Fedorov, the head of the minister of defense. And

so Bernard had an interesting thing here about this guy. His job was to reform the draft system in the recruitment offices known for snatching people off the streets to feed them into the can of fodder machine there.

He sent out to modernize the Ukraine army by hyping drone warfare and more effective procurement, but it led to resistance from the regular military and supposedly from the troops in the field as well. But what happened, though, that got him in trouble, Daryl, according to Bernard here, is that he was fighting against corruption. So Zelensky got rid of him. Those of the Zelensky family reminiscent of Boris Yeltsin's time in Moscow, right?

Zelensky family who were making billions for military procurements were aghast when Federov started to cut into their business. And so they got rid of them. Anyway, everybody can read up. I can see why the military doesn't like him too, though. I mean, you know, like Ukraine is in this position. Like, he was a guy who was basically making the case that, you know, yeah, we're running out of humans to throw at the Russians,

but that's okay. We'll just make it up with drones. And the military, you know, has a more realistic view of that. Like, you can't just make up for shortages in manpower with infinity drones, which is kind of what that guy was known for. Right. But I mean, at this point, like, they haven't had an election in like a thousand years or something. So firing a prime minister, you know, doing stuff like this.

Like, I don't even know if it's worth calling anti-democratic or whatever else anymore. Yeah, that's true. Their last presidential election was in 2019. And I love the way the war party always says, Yeah, but it's martial law. You can't have an election under their law when it's martial law. It's like, yeah, but it's the president who declares

martial law. He could undeclare it and then stand for election. As simple as that. Why doesn't he do that? Abraham Lincoln stood for election in the middle of the American Civil War and he thought he was going to lose. And he still stood for election anyway. Because what are you going to do? Not stand for election? Just because there's a war on? Come on.

I don't usually like to invoke Abraham Lincoln as the great precedent said. Somebody earlier, I didn't want to interrupt you. You were on fire, but somebody earlier said, and I don't know exactly what they meant by this, but they said Trump needs to go full on Lincoln. And then somebody responded, yeah, the Ford Theater version. Goodness, man, well, I don't know.

All right, this is mentioning too. I try to get Max Blumenthal on the show. Maybe I'll get him on my show tomorrow. I know he's a very busy guy, but he went to Iran and back, and I wanted for me and for you to be able to ask him all about what he saw and did there. But I know that he visited, for example,

that, I don't know, quite ancient, but extremely old Jewish synagogue in Tehran that the Israelis bombed. And he went and visited the rubble there, and he visited, I don't think, I don't know if he went to the school where the 160-something kids were killed, but I know he did go to the school

where 20-something were killed in the volleyball game. And he did go and visit that. That's the one that the New York Times covered how it was a Lockheed experimental missile that shot the million tungsten babies out the front before the rest of it detonates and all of that that they shredded

all those kids to death with. And so anyway, and he covered the funeral. And now I know that there were American communists who went there to participate in the festivities and all that. I do not believe that that is the case with Max Blumenthal at all. He is some sort of leftist, but he is a journalist, and he went there to cover what was going on there. I don't know if you saw. I saw

footage of Jackson Hinkle chanting down USA and whatever. Well, he's the head of the Communist Party, so what would you expect from a high-level member of it? So what would you expect from him? But Max Blumenthal was not there in solidarity with Iran. He was just there to cover it. And I believe it's him that I'm paraphrasing here. And he says, this is the thing. funeral for Ali al-Qa'a'a'aqamini was essentially the biggest event that's ever happened in human history. There's nothing else like it that compares to, I mean, other than like, I don't know, World War II or whatever, but like to have this many millions and millions and millions of people coming out to this guy's funerals as they move him from city to city to city. They sent him to

Karbala and Iraq and then they brought him back to Iran again. And they just had, you know, I don't know, maybe a total of 10 million people or some kind of thing come out in the streets. Even the New York Times, you could tell that they were reticent to put it this way, but they were like, man, it was a charitable ocean of people out there. It was unbelievable the number of people out there mourning. I mean, when you contrast that with all the propaganda

about the absolute hatred for this man among the population of the country of Iran and the fact that their regime only lives with a gun to the head of every one of their enslaved subjects and whatever, that they're clinging the power by the tips of their bloody fingernails, that they had to massacre 30, 40, 50, 80, whatever thousands, tens and tens, and whatever number you want of tens of thousands of people in the streets in January in order to cling on the power because otherwise they were doomed

as the entire populace of the country was rising up to overthrow them. And then, boy, you compare that propaganda to this. Who are you going to believe? monarchists paid tweeterers or your own damn lying eyes when you got 10 million people come out to mourn this guy and some significant percentage of them at least or I don't know some significant raw number of them pledging revenge and pledging that this ain't over yet and um you know then the Israelis claimed that oh Trump guess what the Iranians are trying to kill you and we've disrupted a plot like I wouldn't believe the Israelis claiming that

But then again, I might believe anyone else claiming that. I'm not really sure that it's over here at all. And I don't really know, like, man, Daryl, if you were the president, I would advise you to not kill the second most important leader in Shiite Islam, dude, because I can't really predict the consequences after that, man. You really shouldn't do that. And it was the Israelis apparently who killed them according to Wall Street Journal. See, Americans who got the school.

It was the Israelis that killed Ali al-Kamini. But I mean, I don't, but I know you probably feel the same way. Like I don't accept that distinction at all. I mean, it's. No, same difference. You know, when we say, okay, you're going to hit this, this, this and this. And we're going to hit this, this, this and this. Like, you know, whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. It's certainly no cover, right? It's certainly no protection for Donald Trump. And I, you know, look, he is putting himself in danger and he's putting other Americans in danger. And I think I told you this, man, before. I did a speech in one of these northern states for the Libertarian Party.

And I met this kid who was an Iraqi Shiite, whose father and uncle fought in the Shiite uprising of 1991 against Saddam Hussein. Of course, Bush Sr. betrayed and all of that. It's all in the book. But I asked him, hey, if Sistani got angry and declared holy war against the West or against the United States, what would you do? And he said, well, I would go home and fight. But he would be essentially duty-bound to fight.

And, you know, he didn't want to say. And I don't think that he would do anything here. He said he would go home and he would fight there. Did you hear about, at least the way I heard it, there was one speaker and one speaker only at the Tehran portion of the funeral who got booed. And it was Peschian because they see him as too dilatory. Really? Wow. Yeah.

Okay. And all right. It's so ridiculous too because it's just one of those things. And we've talked about this before. It's like we're not psychologists. We're not sociologists. We're not political scientists or anything like that. Neither is like, you know, most of the people that we know.

And yet all of us understand just as a matter of like basic common sense that when you do something like that, you're going to draw those people together and cause them to put aside their differences who want to fight you. Like obviously. Like it seems so just common sense. sense, that it's amazing that, like, anybody could have, which is why I just, I just don't believe

that the Israelis really thought that when they were telling Trump that that's what was going to happen. I don't think they thought that. I think they were saying, tell them whatever you got to tell them to get them into this thing. And I agree. Go from there. But like, yeah, it's just, it's, it's so ridiculous, man. Well, you know, I kept citing the Oklahoma City bombing. It was Adam Johnson, the leftist media critic noticed this immediately that it was like 167 kill. Well, I mean, if you don't include the extra leg. That's the Oklahoma bombing casualty account right there. You know what I mean? And virtually all children. There are a few teachers, but almost all children, an entire Murrow building worth. But then I forgot the main point. Like what happened with that?

Yeah. Bill Clinton said himself, the Oklahoma City bombing saved my presidency as the people rallied around their country and their government. Me. They're president. You know, when we are all under attack, then the people rally around their leadership. George W. Bush presided over the greatest failure, deliberate or not or whatever, however you conceive it, the greatest failure of any president to protect the American people. 3,000 virtually all civilians slaughtered on his watch. And his approval rating went up to 90%.

And it wasn't because of his great competence. It was because it doesn't really matter what the, pollster is asking on the phone. The answer is, United, we stand as one country against our foreign enemies, whoever they are. No matter who the president is. Doesn't matter if it's out of war or George. It's actually, it's even worse than those things just because, you know, it would be as if like, uh, I mean, I mean, this is not like George Bush was asleep at the switch or Bill Clinton was asleep at the switch and 9-11 happens and that this is like literally you have this regime that is pretty extremists that is pretty hardcore, even a lot of people in the country consider them like pretty

radical, you know, the IRGC types and everything. And what's their whole justification for existence? The Americans and the Israelis are crazy and eventually they're going to come for us. And so all of this stuff you don't like about us, you know, you got to put up with it because we're telling you they're crazy. And the people who may not have believed them or thought they were exaggerating or whatever, like they saw what happened. They're like, oh, The things that these guys have been telling us for 47 years about the Israelis and the Americans, it turns out they got a pretty good point, you know? Yep.

It's just, this is what saved the Itold regime back in 1980. I mean, it was a very shaky revolutionary regime. Then Jimmy Carter gave Saddam the green light to invade, and then everybody rallied around the Ayatollah Khomeini. That was what happened back then. So Saddam Hussein saved my Ayatollah ship. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

All right, one last thing before we run here, man, or I don't know if you wanted to do, Super Chats can, but... Dude, we'll have to save those. I got to pee. I can't last another 20 minutes or something. I got to go to. But I want to show you this. I subscribe to Ali Sufahan's newsletter in the morning.

I don't know if you remember him. He was the right-hand man, John O'Neill, the FBI counterterrorism agent back then, working the Yemen case and all of that. He's played by the guy that played Monk in the movie The Siege with Denzel Washington as John... Haddney Caste and... That'd start with fasting.

Yeah. There's a funny story there where they... The movie was, obviously about the bin Ladenites, but because of pressure from the Saudis, they switched it and made them Shiites who were mad about the betrayal of the Shiite uprising of 91, instead of being about Osama bin Laden and the Sunni jihadi edge. Anyway, Ali Sufhan, I do not always agree with the guy, but he is very interesting, and he does this little email newsletter every morning that's usually very well researched. And this is about

the new prime minister of Israel. But same difference. Iraq. And what happened was Maliki was coming back, Nuri al-Maliki from the Dawa Party, who was an absolutely horrible prime minister and extremely chauvinist Shi'i against the Sunnis and really helped set the stage for the rise of the Islamic State in the west of the country, total piece of shit. And Donald Trump put his foot down and said, absolutely not Nuri al-Malika. I don't want Nuri al-Maliki pick someone else. So they held kind of an emergency meeting and they settled on a businessman who,

correction for Mario Nauphal's audience. I screwed up on his show the other day and I said this guy was a member of the Dawa party and I had read that, by the way, I didn't just make that up. I had read that, but I looked deeper into it today. And he is not a member of the Dawa party. And he was simply decided on as a compromise candidate. He's a businessman. And now just a couple of weeks after they chose him,

he launched a so-called anti-corruption campaign. You may have seen this where they had a bunch of tanks and armor personnel carries rolling around in the green zone arresting high level other Shiite politicians. These are guys close to Iran. And they've already got Mukta al-Sadr, who is probably the most important Shiite cleric after Sistani in the country, who he has already ordered his Madi army to all join the army. And they're trying the pressures from the United States to get the Iraqi army to subsume Khatib al-Hasbis. and or I don't think there's the al-It's Khatib Hezbollah and then there's a few other Aseb al-Hocq and all these other Shiite militias,

most of which grew up in Iraq War III against the Islamic State in 2014 through 18 there, the PMUs, the popular mobilization units. And now, so they're trying to consolidate those back into the government and under a guy who is leaning more pro-American and been pro-Iran in the Shiite of resistance here, Shiite axis of resistance. And also they're pressuring him to reopen an oil pipeline through Syria. And get this, not from Mosul, but from Basra to the port of Akaba, which is where, remember, where Mark Rich had the secret oil pipeline

at the port of Akaba there, which is the reason that David Worms, this is what Chalaby pitched to David Worms for Netanyahu, was we're going to build the oil pipeline to Haifa to replace. to replace the secret oil shipments from Iran to Akaba. And this was in the famous video and still photos of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in 1983. This was, he was going over there to promise him money for weapons, but also he spent like two-thirds of the meeting, brow beating Saddam Hussein about how we really want George Schultz's company,

Bechtel, to build this oil pipeline to the port of Akaba. and Saddam Hussein's politely ignoring him. But this was, and this is a big part of the reason for the Iraq war, was so if Saddam won't build the pipeline to the port of Akaba, well Chalbi promises he'll build one to Haifa. And so that'll replace that same thing after Iran stopped shipping their secret oil shipments there. Anyway, so point being that things are a big doings afoot over there in the Iraq right now.

It's been ever since 03, it's been a massive contest between the United States and Iran for dominance in Baghdad and who's going to have more political influence over the various prime ministers. And this whole time Iran has won out. This may be the start of a change. We'll see how long it lasts. But it does make sense for them,

stuck all the way at the northern end of the Gulf to try to find westward oil pipeline routes so that they don't have to depend on Iran's good graces, no matter how close of friends they are. You know what I mean? That's true. Yeah. All right.

Well, so that's what I got. Everybody go read Ali Sufant about Iraq if you're interested in Iraqi politics like me. Oh, one more thing. This is the John Bircher in me. I support dismantling the ICC. Hold that piss. You can do it. Marco Rubio, he tweeted out this thing over at the substack that says we're dismaling the

ICC because it's one world communism. And he's right. And I know that they're just mad that the ICC has indicted Benchurches. Netanyahu and threatens to put him in prison. And he does belong in prison. I'm not upset about that. But I do think that it's terrible that any court would claim the jurisdiction to prosecute American soldiers or officials of any kind in their courts without the benefit of our

Bill of Rights or our military code of uniform code of military justice. So that being said, it is our responsibility to prosecute our war criminals. So nobody has an excuse to ICC us. And with that, we got to go because Darrell's got to go. This has been Provoked with Daryl Cooper and Scott Horton. Be sure to like and subscribe to help us beat the propaganda algorithm. Go follow at Provoked underscore show on X and YouTube. And tune in next time for more, Provoked.