PTI - Are the Pacers in Control of the Series Now?

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the NBA Finals, US Open, and Stanley Cup. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's National Magic Dayton. You have a favorite magic trick?

I'm Tony Kornheiser. I once made my hair disappear. Too much magic. We need photos to measure who had the biggest Afro in, say, 1971. You? I did. Or me?

No, I definitely did. There's no question about that. See, after that, by that by... We're not making this up. We're not making this up. It's true. By 1981, I didn't have anything, but 71. I did. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, the U.S. Open is not as scary as predicted. Connor McDavid calls tonight's game, quote, pivotal, and Taylor Twelman joins us to talk about the state of the men's national soccer team. But we begin today with the Indiana Pacers getting 49 points from their bench and outscoring Oklahoma City 3218 in the fourth quarter to win last night, 16. 1107 and take a 2-1 lead in the NBA finals. Tyrese Halliburton, who was pretty much shut down in game two, had 22 points, 11 assists, and nine rebounds in game three.

Wilbon, how do you make sense of what happened last night? I made sense of it before it happened. I thought that the Pacers were going to win and said so yesterday, and I think that the Pacers have been undervalued all season. And the person I want to give credit to most of all for calling this out and saying this repeatedly is our dear friend Brian Winhorse, who started saying in March, and then it said repeatedly, hey, they're a contender hiding in plain sight because they got off to a bad start, and they don't have that incandescent star. Well, maybe they do in Halliburton, but he is not

on the same page yet in consideration and perception as Shea Gilgis Alexander. But Tony, they're a complete team. The T.J. McConnell clip we showed at To start, it just completely speaks to who Indiana is. And I'm just going to mention a couple of people here in addition to Halliburton with his 22, 11 and 9. And you've got to start there because when he's great, they win. But also Ben Mather and Tony, who a lot of teams passed up, Ben Matherin, yet another one of the Canadian young Canadian stars in the world,

27 points. He comes off the bench. I'm familiar with him and follow him because he went to school here in Arizona. and they got guys that come at you with waves just like OKC, and Rick Carlisle knows how to employ them brilliantly. So this is not a surprise to me. Right. So let me say I got this one completely wrong.

You got this one completely right, including saying yesterday that Halliburton would have a good game because as we know, when he scores more than 20 points, they win almost all the time. I thought, honestly, Mike, that Oklahoma City, after losing game one, was going to win four games in a row. I believe that. Now I'm not sure that they are going to win the series at all.

I'm just going through my notes here. These teams, they use their bench a lot. They're not the Knicks. But when you get 49 points from your bench, that's an almost incredible number, particularly against the best defensive team in the league. You look at this, Mathrin, as you said, at 27. Mike, there's only two players in the history of the NBA

who came off the bench in a game in the league. the finals and had more points than that. And you mentioned McConnell. McConnell had a tremendous line, an impactful line last night. He had 10 points, five assists, and five steals in 15 minutes. And I know the tendency for you is to say, five, five, five, five and five. No, this was, this matter. He changed the game when he was in there. You know, I'm still sitting here thinking that Oklahoma City will win, but not, if they lose game four, they're not going to win. It's just that simple.

They're not going to win. I might disagree with you. Only in this. I think Indiana is going to win game four. I'm not saying that decides the series for me. But, man, you talk about an enormous game four tomorrow night in Indianapolis. Woo! Let's move to the first round of the United States Open, still in progress, of course.

Oakmont is supposed to punish the players, but several in the morning at least, finished under par, including JJ Spawned at minus four. Rory shot minus two on his front, but blew up tone, plus six on the back. So how do you feel about how the course is playing and about the early results? Well, I mean, I don't want to make a judgment on the course if a bunch of people are under par today, because what they'll do at Oakmont, if a bunch of people are under par today, is they'll change the pins tomorrow to such a degree that you're not going to be able to get close to them, and everybody's going to be over par. We understand how that, works. Spawn is interesting to me. I watched for hours this morning. Sporn is interesting to me

because a lot of people don't know who he is, but he's having a very good year. He lost in a playoff to Rory at the players. He's been around the top. I think I'm right in this. He's got the sixth highest ranking in the FedEx Cup standing. So do I think he's going to win? No. I mean, I never think people who win, you know, go fairly low the first they are going to win, but he's been around for a while. There are two names that finished this small. One name that finished this morning and one name still out there. I've never heard of these people. I have never heard of Thurston Lawrence. I've heard of Thurston Howell from Gilligan's Island. I haven't heard of Thurston Lawrence. Don't know who he is. I never heard of Neegard Peterson. I don't know who they are.

What I watched for and what I think a lot of people watched for, yeah, but I don't know them. What a lot of people watch for is the names that you come to the table with. Sheffler, who was minus for a while and then went plus for a while. Rory was mined. to bogey, six holes. One of the bogey holes he got, he needed a 30-foot put to bogey the hole. DeCambo is in the plus. Shawfley is in the plus.

They're not out of it. Of course, they're not out of it. And I've enjoyed watching. I did too. I started watching at some ungodly hour out here in the Pacific time zone. I was watching it like a cornheiser like 5 a.m. time. And that's the only thing I'm going to get up there early

is to either catch a flight or watch, you know, watch golf like this. Tony Spawn, I'm curious about him because he lost the players in a playoff, right? Yeah. And he was in a playoff, yeah. But, you know, he had no bogies. This is the first competitive round

he's ever played at Oakmont. He, like, never seen the joint. And maybe Ignorist is bliss. Maybe all of this, oh, my God, the course is going to kill you. Maybe he just stepped up there. What? No. I'm driven back.

I'm driven through it. Okay. Right. Everybody drives up on the eighth hole. You see over my right shoulder, that's an Oakmont flag. I played it once. I'm a 20. I should not be allowed on that course.

No, I shot 150. No, no. It's too hard. Let's move to hockey. The Edmonton Oilers are once again in Florida where they got drilled six to one in game three. Connor McDavid is calling tonight's game four, quote, pivotal. Wilbon, you've been back in Edmonton all year. What are you calling this game?

Pivotal. Mandatory. You're going to win the champion. If you're going to be champions, it's not even the game number. Okay, if this was game two, if it was game three, if it was game five,

you can't play like slobs, which is what the Edminton Oilers did in game three, and now they've lost back-to-back games, two and three. But two wasn't an embarrassment. It was an overtime loss. It was just, it's one of those great Stanley Cup finals games.

Game three, they played like, like, slabs. All right, let's the other way. I mean, we're not going to soft, soft pedal this. So they need to respond. And I'm not just talking about Skinner, who will apparently start in goal after being pulled from game three, which is exactly what should have happened. He's back in goal.

He's a pro. He's got them this far. McDavid, dry sidle, but not just them. They lead the way. Nurse, cane. I don't want to see slob play from the Edmonton. Oilers tonight. If you're going to beat champs, be champs tonight. There are questions about Skinner, obviously. There are no questions on the other side,

because the other side is Bobrovsky, who everybody has as one of the top goalies in the game. And he's got something Skinner doesn't have, which is a Stanley Cup ring from last year. But I was told today that Skinner is called the king of game four. That in game fours in his life, he is six and old. So they're going to need that. Is it pivotal? They lost game three. Everybody who loses a game in the playoffs thinks the next game is probably pivotal unless it's a 3-0 situation.

I'm sure Oklahoma City looks at game four against Indiana and thinks it's pivotal. This is the great joy of the NFL playoffs. Every game is pivotal because it's the best of one. Like, it's not best of three. It's best of one. You know, Mike, they were down 3-0 last year, and they came back to force a game 7,

so I don't know that 3-1 is necessarily the worst position that they could be in. But, I mean, I think what you take away from this is Florida, as Edmonton, is a really worthy team and even more experienced in the Stanley Cup final, don't you think? Tony, the championship ring validates you even to you to yourself. But you cannot have those stupid penalties Edmonton have. You cannot just be sort of lazy on the forecheck.

They know all the stuff they were pathetic at in game three. they better get it changed. They have a short history in this Stanley Cup and last years. They don't score, Edmund doesn't score a lot in Florida. They don't. Let's take a break.

Coming up, what's the appropriate level of concern over the men's national soccer team? We're going to ask Taylor Twelman. We'll also ask him whether Christian Polisic is right. The critics who question his commitment to Team USA are way out of line.

You got to play Oakmont. Got to get ready for a triple-digit score. I've been invited. I've been invited. You've got to go. Pardon the interruption is brought to you by Panera. It just meals good. The U.S. men's soccer team appears to be a mess. And to help us sort out what's happening is our friend, the lead analyst for MLS season past on Apple TV.

Mr. Taylor 12. Until we start with this, the team has now lost four straight home games for the first time since 1988. That's like almost 40 years ago, 1988. Gold Cup starts Sunday. The World Cup is a year away. What is the appropriate level of concern right now? I'm not going to say panic, but I'm teetering on panic. And the reason why is I think you two gentlemen will know this better than anyone is that a lot can happen in sports in a year, let alone six months. And so a year from now is when the World Cup will kick off in 16 cities, three countries. That's why I'm not going to panic. However, if you were to ask me,

that question last summer. You asked me that question three summers ago. I would have said unequivocally, the United States-Ment national team would not be in the predicament that they're in where they're bombing out of Copa America. The fact that they're losing home games four in a row. They've lost to Panama, Canada. I can go up and down the list, and we're even questioning whether or not the star player wants to play for him. I'm not panicked, but I am very, very concerned in this present moment. Well, that's a good launching point to sort of escape. this down a little bit to Christian Polisic, who is at the center of all this discussion, of course. He told the, call it what you want podcast this morning, that critics who question

his commitment to the U.S. national team are way out of line. Taylor, where you come down on all this stuff with Mr. Polisick? I agree with him, Wilbon. I do. And listen, I was there for his debut. I've been there from the beginning of his international career every single time he has stepped on the field, he is bled, red, white, and blue. I've never questioned the commitment. However, I'm questioning the collective commitment on whether or not they fully understand the magnitude of what this World Cup is. And I've got to raise my hand and apologize to every single one of your watchers and listeners on ESPN right now. I called this team the golden generation. I did. That's my fault because I don't know if they are. They don't have a signature

your win, and yet they're going into the biggest World Cup in the history of the game, and it's in their backyard. And you guys, on PTI, are asking me whether or not the captain is committed, that is as a big of a distraction as there is. But to directly answer your question, unequivocally, he's committed to the United States, and he wants to play for the United States. I just don't know collectively if they're good enough to do it. Well, let's bring Mauricio Pocetino into this because he had to know he took this gig, there'd be very few chances to sort of put all this together before World Cup. And now we're in this position.

What do you think of his approach, his influence so far in this whole process? It's a D-minus if I had to give him a grade. And the only reason why it's not enough is because exactly what you just said, Wilbon. He hasn't had a ton of time to acclimate to the international game. But this is a club manager. And there's a club manager that's now trying to get into this situation where you're You're not with them every single day. It is very disappointing to me how inaccurate he is in assessing what is live on the field and what is in action.

The fact that they lose to Switzerland four nil at home. And until halftime, that team didn't even look like they had any idea on what they wanted to do. It's a D minus. For lack of a better way to put it, it is a D minus. And he knows it because he took the onus on it. pressure's on him for as dignified as a manager that he is. I am shocked at how disappointing he's been in trying to identify the personality of the group, for a lack of a better way to put it.

There's no personality. There's no identity. And the fact is, they are up against it and trying to figure that out in over 364 days here. So I'll get you out of here on this. I'll keep the World Cup in abeyance, because that is, as you've said before, a year away. But the Gold Cup is a couple of days away. And we had the story the other day that the roster wasn't complete, you know, with the American stars and people were staying away. Given all of that and now the spotlight on this team, what constitutes success for the United States in the Gold Cup?

Tony, great question. 2021, Greg Burhalter did the exact same thing going into the Gold Cup before they went into World Cup qualifying for the 22 World Cup. They lost 3-0 to Venezuela. They ended up winning that Gold Cup. I know things look dire, but they have to get to the final. And if you don't get to the final, then you can re-ask me your first question, and I'm going to tell you, I'm a little panicked. I don't care if this is the B team. I don't care if this is the C team. If you consider yourself a real, quote-unquote, contender in the World Cup in a year, then unequivocally, I don't care who's on the roster, you've got to get to the Gold Cup final,

and then you can assess who you play if it's Mexico or Canada, whoever it may be. But Tony, call me if they're not in the final because then it's a disappointment. Thank you, Taylor. So good to have you back. Thank you. Thank you, man.

Good seeing you, boys. Let's take one last break still to come. Another team rejects the Knicks' request for permission to talk to their coach. Of course they do. Good. Of course they do. Another day, another no.

And cadets. Goley, Connor Hellebuck, win both the Vezina and Hart trophies tonight? Why hasn't the NHL given out these awards before now? What are they waiting on? So I love having Taylor Twelman on the show. I know I know nothing about soccer. To the point, maybe. But you are Mr. Soccer for this show.

You are Mr. Soxer. Pardon the Interruption is brought to you by Popeyes. Love That Chicken from Popeyes. Send us some Popeyes. I like that. Happy time, people. Happy 84th birthday Marv Albert. Growing up in New York, I listened to Marv called

Knicks Games and Rangers games. Kids throughout the New York area would imitate Marv's signature, yes, call that he used in basketball games. Marve's two brothers, Alan Steve, were play-by-play guys too. Marv's son Kenny is calling the Stanley Cup final on TNT and does play-by-play on NFL games. Marv did New York Giants football games on radio.

He did Monday night football and Super Bowls on radio. Did the NBA games on TNT from a million years, and then he retired at 80. Well, but I think I'll call Marb tonight just to hear his voice. That is such a flex. It was so cool when cable sports on television expanded, jumped, and you could hear Marv. He didn't just belong to New York anymore.

The rest of us got to hear Marv, Albert. It was so cool and still is. Yeah. Happy anniversary, Dirk Novitsky. On this day, 14 years ago, Novitsky was named Finals MVP as the Dallas Mavericks closed out the Miami Heat 105-95-95 in game six. for the only title in franchise history.

In that series, Novitsky averaged 26 points and almost 10 rebounds a game. Novitsky's relationship with The Mavericks has been talked about recently because he wasn't seen much at games since the general manager traded away Luca Donchich, who Novitsky is close to. But Novitsky sounded optimistic

about Dallas winning the draft lottery, and he has attended WNBA Dallas Wings games and has been complimentary of Page Beckers. Way back in like the early 90s, the first time I heard Dirk Novitsky's name, Charles Barkley's in Europe, I think on a Nike junk. And he comes back and he says, hey, boy, there's this big German. He's like 14.

He's going to be great. I'm trying to bribe him to go to Auburn. And you're like, Charles, what are you talking about? Big German, who's 14. It was Dirk. Charles got it right. And Dirk, Dirk, Dirk, you want to talk about the coolest guy in the world. Dirk's on the short list.

He is. Happy trails to another coaching possibility for the New York Knicks. Casey Johnson reports that the Bulls have denied the Knicks permission to talk to Billy Donovan. So add Donovan to a list of employed coaches the Knicks wanted to talk to but can't. And that includes Jason Kidder the Mavericks, E. May Udoca, the Rockets, Chris Finch of the Timberwolves, and Quinn Snyder of the Hawks. Ian Beggley of SportsNet, New York reports that this is all part of the Knicks plan to see who might be available. Of course, it also could be evidence of no real plan at all.

Yeah. I'll just say amen to that, Tony. and also mentioned something that really was disturbing for a lot of us. David Greenwood, the great former UCLA star, who was drafted by the Chicago Bulls when we didn't win the coin flipping get Irvin Magic Johnson, passed away at 68 years old. But David Greenwood was a pro.

And then the Bulls traded him for George Gervin. He only played one year with Michael Jordan in Chicago. David Greenwood passing at 68 is just tremendously sad. Too young. A couple of corrections, and they are both Wilbon's. Of course, only five teams passed on Benedict Mathrin as he was drafted sixth, and people from Denmark, Mike, are called Danes, not Denmark's. Denmark's own. Let's come to the big finish if we could.

You listening to it. Okay. Former Bengals linebacker Jermaine Pratt signed a one-year deal with the Raiders. Okay by you? Four and a half million bucks for a guy who led the Bengals and tackles last season? Yeah. The Bengals, top draft big defensive end, Shamar Stewart, has left mandatory minicamp due to unusual requests in his contract talks

that could impact his guaranteed money. Your thoughts? Everybody on the Bengals defense, and it was terrible last year, they're walking away. The good ones are walking away. The rookies walking away. Aja Wilson left the aaces lost to the sparks with a head injury.

Your reaction. It's struck in the face, and I hope this is not serious or a concussion. Don't need to lose Asia Wilson for any time ever. Tiger's rookie starter, Jason Job, will have season-ending Tommy John. That's a big loss, isn't it? Yeah, Jackson, four and one.

Big loss. It's a plague, Tommy John. Last one, NHL Award show is tonight at 6 Eastern. You intrigued, aren't you? No, I'd have been intrigued a month ago. Two months ago, when the NHL and NBA stopped screwing around with the marketing people and announce these things when they're voted on. Stop it.

I love Wilbon. We're out of time. We're trying to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser. I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow's up ahead. Not the PTII.