PTI - Are the Patriots the BEST team in the NFL?

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon discuss the matchups from NFL's Week 13 slate of games. Are the Patriots the BEST team in NFL? Do the Bears have the most impressive O-Line right now? All that and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption? but I'm Mike Wilvon. Jackson Dart took a pounding last night, Tom.

When's the last time you got roughed up? I'm Tony Kornheiser. The details are not important. I will just say this. Don't pick a fight with Vern Lundquist. OK? Don't do. Oh.

Was this in a bar post game? You want to give details? No details. The details aren't important. I made a mistake. You don't pick a fight with it. All right. As simple as that.

Man, got to call firm. Welcome to TTI boys and girls. In today's episode, Jackson Dart won't go down. Tarek Scougall's future with the Tigers is unclear, and Jeff Saturday joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the New England Patriots comfortably beating the New York Giants last night, 33 to 15, to become the first NFL team to 11 wins so far this season.

Last year, the Patriots were 4 and 13. This year, they've won 10 in a row. Drake May continued his fabulous season going 24 of 31 for 282 yards and two touchdowns. Wilbon, do you look at the 11 and 2 Patriots as the best team in football? No, I don't, Tony. I'm not on that best team in football train. I think we've decided, you and I have,

that how many times are people going to declare a best team in football this season only to be proven wrong the very next week? Now, you can't prove the Patriots are not because they've had this long winning streak and they've looked damn impressive. there's a clump, a little cluster of teams I put together. And one of the teams I would put right with the Patriots of not a hair above is Denver, who I believe have beaten Kansas City and Philadelphia this season.

So I'm going to put Denver right there. I'm going to put Seattle right there. Seattle might be one in my power rating. I'm going to, yes, put my bears right there who have won nine of ten. there's a group. I'm going to put Los Angeles there, even though they lost to Carolina last week. I'm going to put San Francisco there. So that's my group. I don't think I left anybody out. I moved Philadelphia out of it. That's my group, and the Patriots don't go above. Strength of schedule puts Denver above New England, if anything.

Yeah, we'll talk about that. I think you might put Green Bay there as well if Green Bay beats Chicago this weekend. Yes, yes. Okay. So, no, they are not. I don't. I don't think of them as the best team in football. I think of them as the most surprising team in football. More surprising even than the Colts who have begun to fade a little, more surprising even than Carolina, because Carolina has seven wins and New England has 11, and more surprising than your bears who are very surprising. But as you said, New England's wins are built often against bad to mediocre teams, right? I mean, that's what they played. They had the gift of a fourth place schedule. Their schedule is ranked as the easiest schedule in the NFL

so far. They've only beaten three teams that right now have a winning record. I think it's Carolina, Tampa Bay, and Buffalo to this point. And the composite record of the other teams they beat, you have to hear this. It's 32 and 89. Come on, it's 32 and 89. You know, so, and they don't have a schedule nearly as hard as Kansas City or Philadelphia. So we're going to, we're going to do a wait and see, but I will tell you, they have, if you want me to make the case for them as the best team, they have the two most important positions covered two most important in New England. They got a coach and they got a quarterback.

That's what matters in New England. They got that covered. And those guys might get some hardware, particularly if the Patriots keep winning. Let's move to the Giants rookie quarterback Jackson Dart, who got launched on a first quarter second down

scamper because he refused to go out of bounds. Dart missed the last two games of the concussion already and has been counseled by other players to save his body. But he said postgame, quote, I played this way my whole entire life. We're not playing soccer out here.

You're going to get hit. It's just part of the game. Close quote. Tony is Dart right that hits are just a part of the game. He's 100% right that hits and even big hits are a part of the game. This is a violent sport by design. You can't watch a game in the NFL and not see somebody at some point get carted off, right?

This is the allure of football for over 100 years. I wrote down five names, Mike, tell me if I left anybody out. Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Dick Butkus, Ray, Lewis, Chuck Bednaric. I don't think I left anybody out. That's the group. You know, that's the group right there. Jackson Dorni Lott has to understand something.

Okay, that's a, he's got to understand something. You got to, you know, you cannot walk that tightrope. You have to go out of bounds or you have to slide. I understand you're a tough guy. I understand you want that extra yard, but you know what? A quarterback is more important to his team by playing the entire game than by getting that particular extra yard. You know, there's no great glory, Mike, in having a three-year NFL career because you don't slide and you don't go out of bounds. He was hit so hard.

He could have literally ended up in the stands. He was hit that hard. Get out of bounds. Tony, I think the place where he's going to have to mature very quickly, unless he's going to wind up in that tent, the blue tent, every week, is that just because you did it on Friday and Saturday doesn't mean it works on Sunday. Friday night guys, 99.9% of them, they don't play Sunday. Even the great Saturday guys in the SEC, 80% of them, they don't make it the Sunday.

the guys you were playing on Sunday, and then that group of guys you circled, they'll knock you out of the game. That's right. They will end your career. And Tony, look, I know in basketball, there are times where players say to young high flyers, they did this to Derek Rose,

and you know how much I love D. Rose, they said to him as he was going to the basket and flying, son, you can't do this all the time. You're going to get hurt. And Tony, it's not a threat. It's a promise. And Jackson Darton better learn that, and he better learn quickly. Somebody on the Giants or everybody on the Giants has to explain the way the NFL works.

The NFL, as Jerry Glanville said, is not for long if you play like that. Right. Can't do that. Let's move to the Hot Stove League and specifically American League back-to-back, saw Young Winner Tarek's Scoobel. The Detroit Tigers do not want to trade Scoobel. They want him to pitch for them this year in what is the last year of his contract, but multiple reports say the Tigers are willing to listen to offers, knowing that Scott

Boris is Scoobel's agent. John Heyman reports the gap between what Scuba wants and what the Tigers have offered is, hello, $250 million. The gap. Willvon. Should the Tigers even be listening to offers for scoble at the upcoming winter meetings? Yeah. Yeah, Tony, they almost have to. You mentioned Scott Boris and you mentioned $250 million. We covered enough baseball long enough for go. Even when Scott Boris was relatively new to the game, it's not a threat with Scott Boris.

You know, it's not an empty threat. And so you've got to take this seriously. I don't know what his specific relationship is with the Tigers brass. But they know, they know whether or not they have any kind of realistic shot at holding on the school. And if

you think seriously he's going to walk and you can get something for him, you've got to listen. Whether you do this right now, whether you kick the can down the road a little bit and find out if the price goes up. But yeah, Tom, the Tigers have to listen. He's too valuable. He's too good. He could fetch a lot from somebody.

I would love to disagree with you, but you're 100% right. And Scott Boris has a lot to do this, who may or may not be the devil. I watched this happen in Washington with Juan Soda. The Nats made an offer of over $300 million. dollars. Scott Boris take no attention to it, and the next thing you know, Juan Soto is being traded. You have to listen. Look, there's some stuff with Scoobo. He's already, he's not an everyday player. He's a pitcher, okay? He's had Tommy John surgery. He's had another surgery on his elbow. He's had two fantastic seasons, Mike, but the Tigers have to think in the back of their minds,

what if the clock is ticking on this guy? What if we can get a starter at a reliever? What if we can get an all-star position player? You have to, consider it because Scott Boris almost always takes his players into free agency. He almost never signs them, you know, extends the contract. So yeah, you know what, it stinks for the Tigers. It does. But you have to listen. The only thing that might help them, and it might, if there's a work stoppage in a year and a half or in two years, whatever that is, 2007, I guess, maybe another team doesn't want him because why are you giving them a lot of money if he can't play? Because there's a work stoppage. Let's take a break.

Coming up in our attempt to find the NFL's best team, we will ask Jeff Saturday, which O-Line impresses him the most right now? We'll also ask him whether age has caught up with Aaron Rogers. The thing is, with Scoob, this is his last year. You wait too long and he walks, you get nothing, right? You get nothing. Yeah, yeah. Pardon the interruption is presented by Gray Goose.

Make time wait. Please enjoy responsibly. Part of Happy Hour. You are watching, Part in the Interruption, presented by Great Goose, part of Happy Hour. Let's dig back into the NFL trenches with our great friend ESPN NFL analyst, Jeff Saturday. Jeff Wilbon and I are having trouble deciding which teams are really good. Every week you think a team is good and then a team loses. Often the strength of a team is an offensive line. You played on the offensive line. that's a good indicator. As you look across the league, which offensive line or lines stand out to you? And I have to add, you know, injuries have to count on this.

If there's a great player and he's out, he's not on the line anymore. So who do you got for us? No, no, yeah. I'll start. I would say the Broncos have a good offensive line. I think the Packers have a good offensive line. I think the Bears have a very good offensive line. Rams got one. Colts got one.

I mean, you can kind of go that way, right? As you're looking at teams that have been successful and are kind of up in that push. Philly's got a good offensive line, even without Lane Johnson, who we know is an absolute stud. They're even better when they're in. So those would be the groups that you look at. But I'm the same way as you, Tony, in all honesty, this has been one of the craziest years in the NFL I've ever witnessed. You really don't know what you're going to get. There's nobody who's just run away with this thing. Everybody seems beatable. Everybody kind of has warts that you can see. that can be magnified. And then, you know, you have, like I talked about Love a few weeks ago about that he wasn't the guy and that he was struggling. He goes out at those four tuds and looks like an MVP the other day. But it's the ebbs and flows of the season. So I don't think anybody's clearly running away.

But those are the lines that I like the most so far. Love gives us a nice transition, Jeff, to Mr. Aaron Rogers. Ian O'Connor of the Athletic compared the sight of Aaron. Roger's with that busted nose to the classic shot of Yid Tittle in his prime, you know, on one knee and bleeding. How much can Aaron Rogers at this age, Jeff, have left? You played until you were 37 years old and you know Aaron Rogers. He's going to get a gold jacket minutes after he calls it quits. But at this point, does he have anything left?

Man, I tell you what, not the way he's getting hit. I mean, you think broken wrist, I mean, basically face broken. I mean, when he hit the ground, y'all, I'm not even going to lie. When he hit the ground, he was getting up. I mean, he hit the ground and I was like, oh, because there's certain ways in football, right? You watch it long enough and you're like, oh, it's, you know, it looks bad, but the way they fall, the way he fell told me everything. And then he got up and went about it.

And I'll say this, part of the issue for me here, Wilbon, is that this should never be. the issue shouldn't be offense when you're talking about Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh, the bills ran the ball, just run plays alone, 51 run plays, 51. Like, offenses when you play, you want to get, like, 50 total, like run past positive plays. The bills had 50 and ran for 250. You're just like, the defense has got to help. You've got to get more, you've got to get more strikes at this thing. You've got to get more, you know, opportunities. They're just not getting. enough. And I know they haven't played well on offense, but, man, the blame's got to go on the defense when that's where you hang your hat. There's a guy on the Jaguars who's probably fairly

anonymous, but I know you know him. 335 pound nose tackle Devon Hamilton of the Jaguars. He had to step in as a long snapper because of injury. This seems like you're asking the impossible. You know how hard that task is. Give us an idea. Oh, let me just tell you. you the nerves, right? I can't even imagine the nerves that he felt. When you slide over, now think about this. Every week, the long snapper, the holder and the kickers, punters and field goal kickers go off by themselves, right? They have like one period of practice a day. Other than that, they're usually on a whole separate field and they're doing their own thing. They go in and work out. They got their own little world, right, that they all live in.

And that's all that guy, that's all the long snappers doing, right? It's snap after snap after just getting accustomed to it, timing, everything feels good, which side are you going to put it on for the holder and for the punter and for getting. Everything is golden. When you got to step in and you hadn't been, you snap it like twice a week to this guy, the nerves that he had to have felt before he put his hands on that ball to rip that thing back. And listen, that much off changes the game, y'all. I mean, this is like a, this is a game-changing play and all eyes are on you. I cannot imagine mad respect because when you step in and do that, you got, you got some, you got some guts about you. So a ton of respect that he went and stepped in and did what he did.

We will get you out of here on this. Mike and I are always praising offensive linemen for how smart they are. I mean, I made a living talking to the hogs when I was covering the Washington team. They're always smart. In baseball, catchers always become managers. Why are there so few if any, offensive linemen who are head coaches in the league. I love that. One, we don't want the attention. You get talked to way too much. You get asked a lot of silly questions.

You've got to protect a lot of people's feelings. That ain't fun. Offensive linemen, we don't do too well in doing that. I'm a great example of that. And then, and then two, we, you know, we've been defending the quarterback our whole life. And now we've got to defend them again. You know what I mean? Like, that's all we're going to prop up the QBs forever.

But in all seriousness, I love O-Lyman. I think, I think linemen as a whole, man, we love the game. We love the players in the game. I just think we're so focused on team play, the five guys, the unit, all that kind of stuff. It's much more designed for quarterbacks and, you know, the way the game has kind of gone into that offensive schemes and that kind of thing. But listen, never, never a doubt O-Line separate winners and losers.

But I think I think the game is kind of passed. just the O-line run game. It's more of the passing stuff nowadays. It's a pleasure as always, Jeff. Thank you for being on. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Love you fellows. Great seeing you. Let's take one last break still to come. Dylan Brooks explains why he enjoyed irritating LeBron again last night. That's what he does. That's his thing. And could Serena Williams be coming out of retirement? What? Wasn't Andy Reed an offensive lineman? I think he was an offensive lineman. There's a guy with some rings.

Part of the interruption is presented by Great Goose. Make time wait. Please enjoy responsibly. Part of Happy Hour. Happy time, people. Happy 50th birthday, Mark Kotze. The athletics manager brought his team home 76 and 86 this past season. A better record than many predicted.

The athletics play their home games in a minor league stadium in Sacramento as they await the building of a new stadium in Las Vegas. Managing the athletics now, out of Oakland and in this minor league ballpark limbo, maybe the least attractive MLB managerial job. Katsi has managed the athletics for four seasons, dramatically improving their win total since their 50 win season in 2003. Katsay played 17 seasons in the majors as an outfielder, batting 276 with seven different teams. He was promoted to manager from third base coach when Bob Melvin left for San Diego in 2021.

It was funny seeing that t-shirt in that clip. I'd rather be at Oakland Coliseum. What a lie. Nobody would rather be at Oakland Coliseum, which is why they bailed. You can walk in there during a game and count the number of heads and attendance, sometimes fewer than 500. Stop it. Happy anniversary, Archie Griffin, on this day, 50 years ago, the great Ohio State running back, became the only player ever to win two Heisman trophies.

Griffin won back to back in 1974 and 1975. Griffin did not make much of a dent in the NFL in his seven seasons with the Cincinnati Bengals, but he is remembered as one of the greatest college football players of all time and was enshrined in the College Football Hall of Fame in 1986. Griffin won four Big Ten titles with the Buckeyes in the days when the Big Ten actually had ten teams. He was the first player to ever start four consecutive Rose Bowl games in the days when the Rose Bowl mattered. Ohio State retired Griffin's number 45. Tony, he's the best player in Big Ten history to me.

The best player, period, forget position. But by the way, Herschel Walker could have won three Heismans. He should have won his freshman year. All due respect to George Rogers and Marcus Allen, who won those other times. Herschel Walker. But going back, Archie Griffin, best player in the history of the Big Ten. Happy trails to last night's games for both LA teams. The Clippers got smoked by the heat in Miami,

at one point giving up a 30-2 run. The Clips have now lost 14 of 16. They're a disaster. By contrast, the Lakers had been on a seven-game win streak, but they fell at home to the suns as Luca turned the ball over nine times. Wilburne favorite Dylan Brooks scored 33 for the surprising 13-9 sons. At one point in the second quarter, Brooks dunked, and then mocked LeBron with an imitation show.

shoulder shrug, explaining afterwards, quote, he likes people who bow down. I don't bow down on quotes. It's a great quote. It's a great quote. Dylan Brooks is so annoying, but he is so good as a villain for basketball. If he's playing on a team that matters and the sons seem to want to matter right now, let him go at LeBron and LeBron can come right back to him. That's what sports should be about, that kind of rivalry. Let's go to the big finish. College Hoops tonight, Number 15, Florida, at number four, Duke. Are you excited? Actually, yes.

I'm starting to warm up to college basketball as we get toward Christmas. Kentucky is hiring Oregon offensive coordinator, Will Stein, is hit coach, and UCLA, get this tone, is going with James Madison's Bob Chesney. The bigger deal is? Well, I would just point out that the last JMU coach to be hired was Kurt Signetti. How's that working out for Indiana? Pretty good, huh? Serena Williams re-entered the anti-doping test pool of requirement before any return to professional tennis. Are you intrigued?

I would be getting all excited, but Serena says, stop it. It's low you're all not happening. Tiger Woods says he just started chipping and putting last week. Does it know when he'll return to professional golf? Your thoughts? This is an endless loop for us. 50 times a year. When will he return to professional golf?

He just started chipping and stop. Please stop. Last one, the 21 Thunder, both in the 13th win in a row at the Warriors. Do you like their chances? No, Steph, no chances. No, they might not have a chance, much of one with Steph, but not without him.

Sorry, guys. We are out of time. We will try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Cornhus. And I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. And now, your sports team.