PTI - Detroit Brawl, College Hoops Chaos, and Campbell’s Super Bowl Struggles

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon discuss the NBA 's Charlotte and Detroit Brawl, Men's College Basketball and Will Campbell's struggles in the super bowl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilburne. Tony, someone in the online auction just paid $112,000 for Kurt Signetti's headset. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

I don't know how I did that. I was trying to order takeout. I don't know what happened. You know, I thought you had, you know, somebody order your takeout. I didn't think you did that on your own. No. I order my own takeout and I go get my own takeout. I'm not doing it.

I don't have people drive over to my house. I don't do that. I get my own takeout. I don't mean my house. I want to make sure it's the food I ordered. Bring my takeout. Bring it to me. Bring my door bill.

Maybe you get a big tip. I'll do that. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, Arizona loses. Michaela Schifford does not meddle. And Jeff Saturday joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with last night's NBA game between Detroit and Charlotte. Detroit won and stopped the Hornets win streak at 9.

But that's not the headline. The headline is a brawl that resulted in four people. being thrown out two from each team. It was a highly competitive, chippy game that at least demonstrated what happens when players care, but there was a big fight. Wilbon, is this the type of game the NBA should frown on or applaud?

Tony, I've done sort of a 180. I'm watching this last night, and I'm thinking, no, no, the NBA doesn't need this. It harkens back to a time, for those of us who are old enough for you and I are, where there were flat-out brawls in the NBA, And then David Stern came along and said, there'll be no more of that.

And he pretty much disappeared. I mean, like hockey brawls, pretty much not entirely disappeared. But Tony, I'm watching this last night. And the intensity of the game, there's context to everything, as we like to say. The intensity of a game, Charlotte. I'm sure the Pistons,

even though the Pistons is a long time since your last championship, they look at Charlotte and say, what are you doing out here? We're leading the Eastern Conference. Charlotte had won nine straight games and they're a different team and they're saying, no, we're not having that bad boys junk

out here now. And I thought this is great. I came to think before I went to sleep. This is great for the league. It wasn't a fist swinging. Nobody got knocked out or heard braw. Somebody's going to probably get to spend it for a game. But Tony, I just thought, wow,

my juices got flowing. I heard other players say, you know, we don't want this to go too far, but this didn't go too far. too far, I thought it set the tone for something coming. Yeah, I couldn't disagree more, just watching the clips that I watched. It's a fight. It was a real fight. It was not contained to one set of people. No, it broke out on the other side as well. I can't believe you take this position.

You hate all hockey fights, and suddenly you're saying that an NBA fight is okay and gets it juiced up. There is a lot of nostalgia that people like you and I have for policemen in the lane, for hard fouls, for power forwards, but fights are fights and they're not good. There's too much, you know, posing by athletes when they get a sack, when they get an interception, when they make a touchdown, when they throw down and dunk. There's too much. Look at me, I'm a tough guy.

And to me, Mike, if you want to get rid of this, it's a very easy way to do it. You disincentivize it. I'll just take 10 more seconds. You suspend people. You look at the tape. You see who's the aggressor. You suspend him for 20 games. without pay. You hurt him.

You hurt the team. Does the commissioner basketball have the stones to say we're going to get rid of this stuff? Okay. But this is it only, this isn't that to me. I look at it differently. And there's a different context. I said context. I didn't watch the clips. I watched the whole thing. What led up to it

and what followed. Now you described it accurately. It did spread and you got guys like Isaiah Stewart and you got bridges and they seem to be involved in stuff. And the previous commission You and I agree would have sat their butts down. I don't know that we see that coming, but the heat.

This league is criticized legitimately for having no passion until the playoffs. I'm one of the people who criticizes them for it. There was passion last night. It was passion overload, Mike. Maybe. It was too much. It led to a real fight. We moved to college basketball where the premier game last night was undefeated 23 in O Arizona,

going to number 9. Kansas. As you predicted, Wilmot, Kansas won. And they won without their best player in the possible number one overall draft pick, Darren Peterson, who had flu-like symptoms. Wilbon, you said yesterday, you were now diving into college basketball. So what does this result say to you about each team? Tony, it says more about that conference, the Big 12. I mean, my goodness. I mean, look, Arizona, I would not drop Arizona one spot. I still leave them at number one, even though they lost that game in Kansas. Kansas is supposed to win that game. I know. they'd actually historically never won

exactly that type of game before, but come on. You and I look at Bill Self in Kansas and know what that program is. They're supposed to win that game. I expected to win that game. The 610 kid from Kokomo, Indiana. Kokomo.

He's a wonder, and he's one of those guys that, to me, he blocked that shot late in the game that really kept Arizona from being able to make it even tighter than it was. Tony, there's so many good players in college basketball. We only going to see them one year because most of them, if not all of them are freshmen.

Maybe there's a couple of sophomores sprinkled in there. But what it says about college basketball is the Big 12 is to be reckoned with as great as the Big 10 is right now. The Big 12 is to be reckoned with. And I can't wait to see more of both these teams. Big 12 has four teams than the top 10 right now. They got Arizona at one. They got Iowa State at three. and Kansas has to go there on Saturday.

I'm sorry, they have Houston at three. They have Iowa State at five. Kansas has to go there, and they have Kansas in the top there. Look, this thing says two things. One, it says Kansas is a really good program. It's an elite program. They've won four national championships with three different coaches, Fogg Allen, Larry Brown, and Bill Self.

Roy Williams was there. Didn't win. He's great coach. They've been beating teams for a long time when they come there. Bill Self's record against ranked teams at home is 83 and 15. Let me repeat that number. 83 and 15. So he knows what he's doing.

The second thing it tells us is Arizona is not going to be undefeated. Nobody's going to be undefeated. Last undefeated team was Indiana in 1976. It's 50 years ago. Better teams than Arizona have not been undefeated. So you're going to see these two teams in the top two lines when the seedings come out. They're really good teams. It's not an upset.

It's not surprising. By the way, Tony, by the way, what is to say about Kansas, though, that someone who we think is their best player, Peterson, is out and is missed to the string of games and they seem to find a way. Yeah, they're a good team. They're an elite program.

They're a good team. And maybe they're a great team. Wow, a lot of good teams right now in college hoops. And we're going to turn, though, to Michaela Schifrin's growing Olympic disappointment. Schifrin and Breezy Johnson were paired in today's team combined event.

Johnson was the fastest in the downhill portion. Schifrin, the most successful World Cup race, of all time, then crossed the line 15th of 18th in the slalom. Her best discipline. That dropped Schifrin and Johnson to fourth, meaning Schifrin missed a medal for her seventh straight Olympic race.

Tom, you've been invested in Schifrin's plight. What was your going through your mind about this? What goes through my mind is that in fact, and you give it from all time like you were making fun of it. No. She has more World Cup wins. She has more World Cup wins than anyone, any man, any woman, 108. She's at the top of the pole.

She is an undeniably great skier, and yet recently in the Olympics, she hasn't had that measure of success. Now, she won gold medals in 2014 and 2018 in slalom events, but she was shut out completely in China. She went 0 for 6, and now she's 0 for 1, and blew a lead that was handed to her. So you know what I think of, Mike? because we all talk about other sports.

It's what we do for a living. You put on your sports writer hat. I think of Greg Maddox and I think of Clayton Kirchaw, who were great regular season, great Hall of Fame. Kirchow's getting into Hall of Fame on his first ballot.

Regular season. Greg Maddox, 355 victories, 610 winning percentage. Playoffs, 11 and 14. 11 and 14 in the playoffs in the World Series. Clayton Kirchewa. 253 regular season ERA.

You know, $699 winning percentage, 13 and 13 in the playoffs and a 462 ERA. I don't know why this happens to them. I don't know why it happens to Schiffrin, who's undeniably great. Why does it happen to James Harden in the playoffs? I don't have an explanation. I wrote down two names. And I mean, and they are pitchers who are going to be Kershaw and Maddox right into the Hall of Fame. There are things about Maddox.

I sometimes read now. people will bring up things like he allowed more home runs than walks one year. And you're like, these things are not possible about Greg Maddox. And Kershaw, yet in October, they weren't great. And so I thought of that when Schifrin, you know, and she's been great and she's had a moment or two. Tony, it all seems to be emotional and psychological. And, I mean, we could put people on the couch and they could give us explanations that would go on and on and on. luckily she's done all right.

She doesn't have to just take this as her only contribution and result. She's great and she does a lot of self-analysis and she will continue to do that. And I root for her. I do. Let's take a break. Coming up, Mike Brable says he's committed to keeping Will Campbell at left tackle.

We're going to ask Jeff Saturday about that. We'll also ask him about what the Seahawks said tip them off about the Patriots protection schemes. I waited all day. I waited up the TV to see the Quad God. I missed it. The NFL season is over, but Wilbon and I are not done with football yet. We have questions about why the Patriots could not protect Drake May.

For our great friend ESPN NFL analyst, Jeff Saturday, let's start with his Patriots tackle, Will Campbell, allowed 14 pressures in the Super Bowl. Today, he said he played with a torn knee ligament in the playoffs, but he wasn't using that as an excuse. When you looked at Campbell, what did you see? techniques and fundamentals weren't sound, right? I mean, there's a ton of slander about he and Wilson, the left guard,

and the reality is they didn't play well. But neither did Drake May, neither did. The run game never got to say. There was a ton of things that went wrong against the best defense in the NFL, so you're going to get exposed. But I thought Campbell, he opened himself up. He got powered a little bit. His technique wasn't great.

Let's not forget this is a rookie left tackle, and it is a very difficult position and now put on the challenge of going against one of the best, you know, past rushing defenses in the NFL and get behind where you, you know, you're not running the ball well. You look like you're one dimensional. They took full advantage, but Will Campbell would be just fine. I understand people are bashing them. It didn't look great. It wasn't nearly as bad like the whole 14. pressures and what it all was. I'm just going to let you know. They don't know enough about offensive line play to know what is what, what is a pressure or what isn't. He didn't play well, but he wasn't as awful or it's never as good or bad as what we always say in film. He'll get better lay off of him a little bit. All right. That leads us perfectly then to the issue now of Mike Vrable saying today he's committed to keeping Campbell at left tackle. Jeff, I know you won't be this immodest, but I'm going to say this. You know more about this position and line play than Mike Vrable.

How does this strike you when you hear this? I agree. Listen, I think he's fully capable of being a good tackle in our game. And I go Andrew Thomas, right, with the New York Giants, started out, struggled early in his career. He's become a very good left tackle. But there's a lot of left tackle. It all goes down to this argument about arm length and what people think. the arm length of a left tackle should always be, and his arms are a little bit short. He will work it out. He has to work on technique, on angles, you know, and without getting to the

weeds, right, like a jump set versus a, you know, a 45 degree set versus a, you know, a vertical set. All of those things, he'll figure this out of when he looks at a rusher, where his intercept line should be. Guys, it takes time. Like, they don't line up like they did in college. And they ain't, they, they dang sure can't run, you know, nearly as fast as they can in college as they can in the pro. So there's a lot of things that happen a lot quicker. The games, the exposure you get to your guard not being on the same level, your quarterback's depth, all of these things, guys, that no one ever talks about. He'll be just fine. Brable will coach him up, this offense, Josh McDaniels, they'll understand pressure plans better. Again, Drake didn't play

well. There was a lot of things going on and it just all looked much worse. because everybody struggled. It wasn't just one guy. We'll go one level deeper with line playing that Super Bowl. Seattle's Devin Witherspoon said, and I want to get this quote right, we had a tell on their guards and tackles how they like to set. They're going to overset on certain rushes and they're going to fall for certain moves, close quote. Jeff, explain it, but tell us if it's nonsense.

No, it's 100% true. And guess what? We all got them. We all got them. I wish we didn't, but I can assure you when it's third and nine, probably not a big secret that we're going to have to throw this thing. And they can tip it off, man, and they time up the quarterback snap, whether it's by his foot raising like Peyton did, his hands, his clap, whatever they're using in their silent cadence. The trigger is what we call it to get us all on the

same page of a silent snap count. They dialed in and they took advantage. They hit the blitz in stride, which makes it even more difficult to pass it off or, pick it up, receivers timing gets thrown off because they get there so quick. They definitely had it. But, but again, this happens every week. We all have certain stances that we get into as an offensive lineman where we're going to have a certain set, you know, have a certain set that we like, or if we know we've got to pass a game off, you'll see a guard, you know, kind of shift or move his feet. We all have them. It's a matter of when you can run the ball, this is why run games are so important, y'all, because when you can run the ball and get

ahead of the chains, you don't worry nearly as much about that. When it's third and long, and you know it's a sprint to the QB and everybody in America is watching this play, of course you got to tell. You know, it's like there's no way or right. He's got to tell, by the way. The defense has got to tell. We all understand them. They took advantage the Patriots didn't. Congrats to the Seahawks. That's really interesting to hear all these things. It is. It really is. We'll get you out of here on this. Well, obviously, we have talked a lot about what went wrong with the Patriots, but when you look at the Seattle defense, which I know you think is great, do you have the sense that it is sustainable? It is. And I'll be honest with you,

I think the thing I was most impressed with that I walked away that very few people are talking about. In fact, I don't know that I've heard anybody really talk about it yet. The physicality. Like, we can go through scheme. You can go through all that you want. The bottom line is they line up and hit you in the mouth. A ton of their pressures were straight midline rushes where they are literally taking the offensive lineman and putting him in the lap of Drake May. And that's all five of them guys, getting pushed back at some point. They play at that level. Then you go to the linebacker level. Jones was all over the field. Then you go to Witherspoon or even Warren, like all these different guys. They will all hit you in the mouth. They are full participants in run game.

And I forget who it was. I think it was like early in the second quarter. And maybe one of the safeties came down. And he hit Henry, who was like extended for a ball, hit him right up under the chin. At every level, they were physical. They were tone setters. And that's what sustains in the NFL. All the schemes everybody talks about, everybody's got an answer for scheme.

No one has an answer with somebody hit you in the chin, and they are more physical than you. You better either bowl that neck up and accept it and go give it back. or they're going to beat on you all day, and that's what happened with the Seahawks. It's great to have you, Jeff. It is, Jeff. Thank you for all year. Thank you so much. Had a blast, fellas. Look forward to doing this again, man.

I love you. Good. Let's take one last break still to come. What could Justin Verlander do for the Tigers? And what could have a challenge is to the Spurs face tonight with the Lakers on a ball night, Tony? Hearing that, hearing Jeff drilled down on live play in that detail. Yes. But normal folk like us can understand what he said.

Brilliant. Happy time, people. Happy 29th birthday, Lily King. As long as we're in the middle of the Winter Olympics, let's wish happy birthday to someone from the Summer Olympics. King is a breaststrokeer who has competed in three different Olympics and won a total of six medals. King has a gold from the 4x100 medley relay in Paris in 2024.

She has two goals from 2016 in Rio de Janeiro. When King won the 100-meter breaststroke at those guys, game, she trashed talk to a Russian opponent who'd been suspended for doping, saying after the race, quote, it was so incredible winning a gold medal and knowing I did it clean, unquote. King also won two silvers in a bronze in Tokyo in 2020. This is just to point out that Katie Ladecki is not our only swimmer. But I think it's fair to say that Ms. King was greatly overshadowed her entire Olympic career by Katie Ladeke, who goes all the way back to like 2012.

American women. Yes, all of them. All the American women overshadowed. And justifiably, she's great. Happy anniversary, Bonnie Blair, staying with our Olympic thing, we transitioned to the Winter Olympics and the great speed skater. On this date, 34 years ago, Blair won the first gold medal for the United States and the Albertville Games.

You were there, Wilma. I was. She won the 500-meter event defending the gold medal she had won four years earlier in Calgary. Blair was actually the first American woman to win gold medals in consecutive winter Olympics. Blair then won the same event the 500 two years later in Lillehammer, where I watched it. In all, Blair had five gold medals and one bronze. The other two golds were in the 1500 meter events in Albertville and Lillehammer. Maybe my memory is playing tricks tone, but it seemed like back then, America was usually the underdog in almost every big winter Olympic event, right?

I'm not crazy? You and I were happy to speed skating. Yes. Certainly in the speed skating. Absolutely. Happy trails to free agency for Justin Verlander. The soon to be 43-year-old has agreed to a one-year deal with the Tigers. Verlander was with Detroit for the first 13 seasons of his extraordinary 20-year career, during which he's won three-size, two World Series, and an MVP. He joins a staff that also boasts Tarek Scoubel, Framber Valdez, Jack Flarety, and Casey Meis. Last season, Verlander had a down and up season for the Giants, starting 0 and 8, but finishing strong with a September ERA of 208.

The only thing my cubbies got wrong in that period of time was not getting Verlander in 2017 to repeat. I'm betting Verlander thought he was going to wind up a cub. He didn't. History was changed badly for some of us. Let us go to the big finish. Rick Petino moved past Roy Williams into third place and wins for men's college basketball coaches.

Are you impressed? He beat his son Richard, which was sort of a wow. Now he's behind Coach K. and Behan. Yeah, you've got to be impressed. Steph Curry, out with the right knee soreness and will miss the All-Star game, your reaction. It doesn't matter. He's been in thousands of them, you know. Seems like thousands of them.

Was the Olympics last year, didn't you think the Olympics? Yeah, with LeBron and Durant, the Sacramento Kings have lost 13 games in a row. What gives? They could be the most irrelevant team, them and the Chicago Bulls now in the entire NBA. Indiana announced plans for a statue of one Robert Montgomery Knight. You surprised by that? I'm surprised in the sense that why isn't it up already? Yeah. Like 10 years ago.

Last one, Spurs at Lakers tonight. Who you got? No Luca, no Rees, no LeBron. Let me just say this. If all of them were playing, my money would be on San Antonio. But now it's not even a game. It's junk. We're out of time. We're trying to do better than next time.

I'm Tony Corrinaj. I'm Mike Lilban. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. And now it was a ball night tone. It's just been ruined for me. No, quad god for me. Gonna finally watch it.