PTI - Did the Nats Make the RIGHT Call Firing Martinez?

Episode Date: July 7, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss Wimbledon, the MLB All-Star game, and the Washington Nationals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's National Tell the Truth Day, Tony. Got any confessions you'd like to make?

I'm Tony Kornheiser. Lufthansa Heist, the 1978. That was me. Yeah, I was looking for something a little juicier than that. You know, a little more insider. A little more revealing. That's pretty inside. That was a heist from the airport.

That was a pretty good deal. It led to a pretty good movie. Maybe you saw a good thing. Maybe you didn't see it 15 times like I did, but maybe you saw it once. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls, in today's episode, The Nats Clean House. Mexico beats the United States for the Gold Cup and two outfielders make impressive throws. But we're going to begin today with Wimbledon. Men's number one seed Yannick's Center was in real peril this afternoon when he got a big break.

19-seeded Gregor Dimitrov was up two sets to love and tied at two games apiece in the third when he appeared to tear a pectoral muscle while serving. The 34-year-old Bulgarian retired from the match, so sinner advances to face 10-seated Ben Shelton. Wilbon, your reaction to the end of this match and what it means for the rest of the tournament. Tony, the whole thing is unbelievable. I mean, the backstory's unbelievable, which we'll get to in a second, about Dmitroff, the Bulgarian, who's 34 years old, and has been as high as the number three-player ranked player in the world. But he has these things.

So he's leading two sets to none against Center. And they're tussling in the third set. And you're like, whoa, is Center the number one seed, the number one player in the world? Is he going to go out here? Or is he going to have to be involved in some five-set thriller? What's going to happen? And then you get this injury, this torn peck. And then the backstory, of course, is that Dmitrov, it's his fifth consecutive major where he's had to retire because of an injury.

and the 10th time in his career from a major. Not all matches, not all tournaments, from majors, and it's just not possible. And so the drama of it, and Ben Shelton, you know I told you last week briefly, I think that Ben Shelton can insert himself with Al Carras and center. He's got the game, he's got the swag,

he's got the personal life, the glamour, he's got all of it. He needs to win. But I think Shelton can do that. and now he squares off against center. Yeah. So Dmitrov is Joel Embed. He can't stay out there.

He's a highly skilled guy who can't stay out there. Five straight, five straight, made, ten overall is wacky, but five straight is on the look. There was going to be a domino effect. Had sinner lost, it would open up the draw, his side of the draw for Djokovic, who, who won today while losing the first set. That would have been a big deal. Secondarily, Shelton, who you love tremendously, Shelton would not have had to play Sinner,

as he does have to play him now. He would get Demetrov, which is a different deal altogether. And Al-Karaz would become a heavier favorite because the other side of the draw would be diminished without the number one seat. As I watched it, I had that sense, Mike, as I'm sure you did too, that every time he moved, he was in pain and it wasn't going to work.

It just wasn't going to work. It wasn't going to have to leave. No, we move now to next week. We move now to next week's baseball all-star game rosters being set, and of course the debate over who got snubbed. The biggest name's not to make it or won Soto, the highest paid player in baseball, and Mookie Betts, who was not an all-star for the first time since 2015.

Wilbon, did any all-star snub stand out to you personally? Um, yeah, those guys play in New York and L.A. What a shock their names would come up first. And you labeled it properly, biggest names. Either one of them got 77 runs batted in so far before the all-star break. No. No, they don't. No.

Either one got 24 home runs. No. Either one play for a team, which has the best plus minus of anybody in the Major League Baseball. No, the Cubs have that. No. And that player would be Sayah Suzuki. He has those credentials.

The other two, you mention, stars that they are and their gazillion-dollar salaries do not. So he, say a Suzuki on the first place, Cubs, is my snub. Yeah, so my feeling about people who get snubbed in the All-Star game is the same feeling I have when there's a U-N-Kry about teams that get snubbed in the NCAA basketball tournament. They are usually fifth or sixth place teams in their conference, and they're saying, we want to be the 68th team. And my reaction to this is, you know, just tell it to somebody who cares, because you have proven, we have seen it with our own eyes, and you can't win this tournament. Now, I have a little bit more sympathy for people in baseball who get snub, but this is, Mike, this is going to continually happen as long as they keep this silly rule that every single team has to have at least one representative in the All-Star game, like the, like the Miami Marlins.

I mean, this is crazy. It does not make the competition better because you take a better player out of play. It does not diminish the television ratings or help the television ratings because the ratings exist because the show Aetani and Aaron Judge. It's a small condescending rule.

And yes, I mean, an answer to your direct plea, yeah, if a guy's leading the league in RBI, yeah, he should be an All-Star. Yeah, you are, you're, You're watering this down by forcing those people to the sidelines because everybody's got to have at least one. It's wrong. Say a Suzuki doesn't seem to have what we've seen so far the personality to put a chip on his shoulder and be angry the rest of the summer at being left off. I wish he did because I'd like to be armed with that going against the Cardos and Brewers.

But that's not Suzuki's personality, apparently. and so he'll just roll with it, but seriously, come on now. Let's move to management changes for your Washington Nationals, Tony. The franchise fired manager Davy Martinez and president of baseball ops Mike Rizzo yesterday. The duo only led the team to a World Series in 2019, but as you point out, the nationals have struggled in recent years and sit 16 games under as we near the All-Star break.

tone, was this the right call and the right time? Okay, so I'm not going to say that it was deserved. The word I'm going to use is justified. Since winning the World Series in 2019, the Washington Nationals have the second worst composite record in all of baseball. Only Colorado has a worst record. They have now lost, let me get this right,

20 of their last 27 games. They completely cratered this weekend at home against Boston. Mike, they left 15 on last night. They're 15. You can't leave 15 people on base. Their starters almost always give up multiple runs in the first inning, and their bullpen is statistically the worst bullpen in baseball. So I do think this is justified. You look around, I mean, I'm a fan. I watch. The pitching coach hasn't made the pitchers better. The hitting coach hasn't made the hitters better. Davy's enthusiasm is falling on deaf ears and Mike Rizzo put together a roster that's not that good. So the nationals face three significant questions. They got to go get a

GM and they got to first interview people who are impartial so they can find out what's wrong with their team. You got to have that. Then the GM and the owner have to sit down and they have to pick a manager, not for this year, but for the years to come. This year's not going to mean anything. And then the owners have to spend money, Mike. I mean, you have to have to have to have skin in the game. You can't be a landlord. You have to decide that you're in this thing, to win this thing. I mean, honestly, it's a civic trust. You have to go out there and compete to win. I'm sorry I took all the time, but it's my team. I apologize. I just remember that when you start trashing me about mentioning the word cubs in the drinking

game in the future like the rest of the summer when your team's not in it. I root for my Rizzo, a Chicago Catholic League boy like me. And last I checked, Soto would look good if the batting coach at him. Bryce Harper would look good if the batting coach at him. You know, Max Scherzer would make the pitching coach look better. So I look out there, Trey Turner would make everybody look better. So I look out there every time I'm watching a game and I watch a lot of baseball right now a lot every night. There's an ex-national on some team that would make the nationals look better, except the owners didn't pay to keep them.

That's right. No, you're right, but they made some good trades. They got, you know, they got James Wood and they got Mackenzie Gore, and they are good players. Let's move to last night's Gold Cup soccer final in Houston, in which Mexico beat the United States 2 to 1 after the United States scored in the third minute. Late in the game, there was a potential handball by Mexico that could have resulted in a U.S. penalty kick, but no call was made. And the go-ahead goal by Mexico was originally nullified for off-sides, then it was reversed on review. The U.S. players in their coach, Marie. C.O. Pochitino lambasted both calls. Wilbon, you watch the game. What was your takeaway? It didn't start with officiating. I'm not, you know, that historically neck deep into, you know, soccer that I'm going to jump on the officiating. I will say that handballs confound me all the time because sometimes intent seems to be taken into consideration. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes who's near, who's near the plane? is taken into consideration, sometimes it isn't. So I can't figure that out in off sides. You know, in this case, I'm wondering, okay, are we going to VAR? Is this going to be called off sides?

A spectacular play with this double header, no pun intended. But Tony, I'm looking at the result. And I wonder what the American players, when they have to speak honestly about crowds, you know, in America, who are not in, you know, not rallying behind the start. and stripes, what they feel about that, what that means going forward into more competition coming up depending on where the games are played, what does 2-1 loss when you got a 1-0 lead to Mexico means? So I got more questions, which is the way it should be, as we now get closer and closer 330 days or whatever it is, to World Cup.

Yeah, I'll just talk about the handball for a second. The guy goes down, he's palming the ball. He's palming the ball on the ground, and then he pushes off the ball. in order to get up. I assume that was handball because his hand was on the ball. If there's another explanation, referees have fine. You know, you can convince me it's not my deal. I think this is a good result for the United States, Mike.

They went to the finals. They lost by one goal. They were missing four or five or six guys, their best guys who are going to be starters in the World Cup. This was the walk-up narrative to the Gold Cup. Where are these guys? Why aren't they playing? If the United States can get this close with a B team,

When they have their A team, I think they ought to be encouraged. Let's take a break. But coming up that the Astros sweep of the Dodgers say more about Houston or L.A. Yeah, I don't know how encouraged they should be with that loss. O'Neill Cruz made an unbelievable throw to the plate yesterday. But did Cody Bellinger do something even more impressive? Not to me. Yeah, the Nats, the owner's got a...

Part of the interruption is brought to you by the all-new Seeley Posteropedic collection. Time to check in with the checkered masses. Let's see what's first. Here we go. Which team does the Astros sweep of the Dodgers reveal more about Houston or Los Angeles? The Astros. The Astros. And they're both going to be good.

They're both almost certainly going to be in the playoffs. They both can be a threat to win the World Series. Hell, they've won four World Series out of the last, I don't know, eight years between the two of them. But, Tony, what Houston does. And they just keep replacing players. Bregman and Tucker can go on and be all-stars elsewhere. Fine. Replace them.

George Springer can go up to Toronto. He can be in another country. Fine. Replace them. Correa, replace them. Dusty Baker, replace them. Verlander, replace them. They scout.

They come up with talented people. Scout, develop, plug, win. Astros. They may not be as glamorous as the Dodgers. but they're right there as a threat to win it again as much as the Astro, as much as the Dodgers. You left one guy out. Yordan Alvarez is on the D.L. Alvarez.

Yeah. Yeah. Here's the thing. So they outscored the Dodgers like 29 to 6 in three games, including 18 to 1 in one game, the worst Dodger home loss ever, something like that. I'm going to pass all that stuff off on the Dodgers because you don't want to look too carefully at three games in early July when you have 162. But the Dodgers are 20 and 19, I believe, against teams with winning records. Houston right now is 8 and 1 against your Cubs, against the Dodgers, against the Phillies, against first-place teams. And they're 19 and 5 and their last 24.

You're 100% right. It says more about the Astros. Stros. It says more about the Astros. Astros playing well. Better outfield play on Sunday, O'Neill Cruz or Cody Bellinger? Tony, these are two great plays. But the O'Neill Cruz play is such a stunner in that he makes this throw.

First of all, people can go crazy if they want over the 105 miles per hour. I'll grant you that. But the ball arrives at home plate in the catchers' mitt at the same time as the hip of a fully striding runner, who probably is so surprised that he doesn't even slide. The ball has to come loose. It has to be jarred loose, and it isn't. So I'm going to go with the O'Neill Cruz throw, even though Bellinger makes a five-played.

Beliger having a hell of a year. I still like to have him. I'm not sure where he'd play in Chicago. I like to have him anyway. But I'm going to go with Cruz on this particular play. Yeah, we're going to have an honest disagreement. The cruise play, it is 105 miles an hour, which leads to the obvious question.

Are you going to put them on the mound? Are you going to see if he can pitch? Is he going to be another show Hayatani? You probably have to try. The reason the Bellinger play is better, and the O'Neill Cruz play is great. The Bellinger plays, not only does he have to go down to the shoe tops in order to catch the liner, but he comes up in one motion. And you think he's got a hose? Man, that is like on the money to first base embarrassing Frankie Lindor, making him look like a little leaguer.

So you have a former MVP doing that to a former MVP. It's the only game, I believe, that the Yankees won against the Mets in that particular series. So what I would do, Mike, is I would put Cruz on the mound, and I would save my applause in this case for Bellinger. Because to me, Belinger's play is a perfect play. It's absolutely perfect to me. Except when you're throwing it home, it's a little bit more impressive than throwing it to first base. To me. I don't know.

The most impressive throw in baseball is from right field to third base. That's the big one. Enough email. Let's take one last break still to come. The Pacers update the status of Tyrese Halliburton for next season. And the Miami Heat land a 20-point scorer, which could start some dominoes to fall. Would you not try to see if Cruz could pitch? Wouldn't you have to try to see if he could?

No. No? No. Pardon the interruption is brought to you by One a Day. Happy time, people. Happy 65th birthday Ralph Sam. Although his team never won the NCAA title, Samson was three-time collegiate player of the year

at the University of Virginia, where his number 50 is retired. Samson was the number one overall draft picked by the Houston Rockets in 1983 and was NBA rookie of the year in 1984, averaging 21 points and 11 rebounds. But Samson, at 7-4 with guard skills, was supposed to be a transformational player, much like Victor Wimbanyama, and he never was. Samson was a four-time All-Star in Houston, but never as impactful as his teammate,

Akeem Elijah won. Three knee surgeries surely derailed his career, which seems somewhat unfulfilled. You know, Tony, I feel very fortunate, and that I get to see and interact often with Ralph, in and around Charlottesville, in and around Washington, D.C. He's still heavily involved with the university. He is as pleasant and affable. You always love Ralph. I'm going to give you credit for being earlier on Ralph than anybody.

But Tony, here's what you also know. Coaching, I don't mean coaches. Coaching failed Ralph. It had not evolved to the point where they knew what to do with him yet. Ralph was an alien to them and it's too bad because he had every skill in the book, all of which you mentioned, and nobody knew what to do. He was 20 years before its time, maybe 30.

Happy anniversary, Tom Browning. This is posthumous, but on this day, 32 years ago, the Reds starting lefty snuck away from his team and spent half an individual. lining lounging out at one of the Wrigleyville rooftop joints in full uniform in the middle of the game against the Cubs. This hilarious move drew a fine from Reds manager Davy Johnson. Browning most famously threw a perfect game in 1988, getting strikes on 70 of his 102 pitches, and never going to three balls on a single batter.

Browning remains the only Cincinnati pitcher to throw a perfect game. Career record 123 and 90, 394 ERA, made one All-Star game and was on the Reds World Series champs in 1990. The worst the Cubs were, Tony, the more time I spent on the rooftops. But last year and now, really, this summer, the place to be is in the ballpark, not on the rooftops, even if a player wandered over to say hello. A melancholy trails to Bobby Jenks. The former relief pitcher passed away from stomach cancer on Friday at just 44. Jenks came to fame as the closer for the White Sox during their 2005 World Series title run.

Manager Ozzy Guienne would call for Jenks to enter by pantomiming a gesture for the Bigfellow. In all, Jenks saved 173 games for the White Sox over six seasons. He could throw over 100 at a time when that was rare, and once retired a Major League record tying 41 consecutive batters. Wow. Tony, that White Sox team is going to celebrate the 20th anniversary of winning the World Series next week. And Ozzy Gehan, he wasn't saying the Big fella when he put his arms out like that. was comical, it was entertaining, and it's just sad to hear that we've lost Bobby Jinks at this age. Indeed. Let's go to the big finish if we could. Let's do it. A three-way NBA trade landed

Norman Powell on the heat and John Collins on the clippers. Is that a big deal? Yes, Norman Powell took the heat. I love that when he fits in there, it would seem to me. And Bradley Beal may be on the move and expand that clipper thing. We'll see the Pacers confirmed Tyrese Halliburton will miss all of next. season with a torn Achilles, your thoughts? Two of their three best players are out. Halliburton will miss the whole year and Miles Turner to left. So they're back in the pile with everybody else. Angel Reese of the Sky says WNBA officiating has to be fixed.

Do you agree? Tony, I don't know, but it's a familiar refrain right now league-wide, so at least it's got to be talked about and study. Zach Wheeler struck out 12, gave up just one hit in beating the Reds yesterday. You impressed? He went nine, Mike. A complete game. They're so rare.

He pitched great and he went nine. That's good. Last one, LeBron has apparently been taking up golf. Do you have any tips for him? Stay with it. Don't worry about embarrassment. We've all been there. Even great athletes have been there.

And the other thing is, go hang out with Carl Anthony Towns, who's taller than you and has the most beautiful swing ever. He and Tony Coup coach of anybody over 6'4. We're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. I'm Tony Cornhage. I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads.