PTI - Does Last Night Say More About Chiefs or Jags?

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss Jags/Chiefs, Dodgers/Phillies, and Brewers/Cubs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's apparently National Bathtub Day, Tony. How you celebrating that?

I'm Tony Kornhizer. Not with the neighbors again. Too many people. The faucet is jamming into my back. Okay, now you're getting there. There's too many details. This is TMI. Yeah.

You know, national baths. You're not a bad person, right? No. You're not a bad person. And if you come to my house and you take a bath, get out. You got too much time on your hands. Take your shower for three minutes. I'm like Sabin.

This is not a resort. Get out of here. There's no bad. I love Sabin in that commercial. He's very good in that. He really is good. Yeah, 255. I know.

Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. And today's episode, the Dodgers are one-win-away. Wilbon's Cubs are on the verge of elimination, and Jeff Saturday joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with last night's NFL game in which Jacksonville's quarterback, Trevor Lawrence, fell down, fell down again, got up finally, and ran left and dove into the end zone for the

go-ahead points in a 3128 Jacksonville victory with 23 seconds to go. Kansas City had taken the lead on a short run by Kareem Hunt with 1.45 to go. It was actually a terrific back-and-forth game. Wilbon, what does this result say to you about each team? Tony, the result is these the kind of plays that went 100% in Kansas City's favor last year. We noticed because they were 11 and 0-1-1-1-score games. The Chiefs won every game like this last year, which made them, I resented as a team to some people, not to me.

But Tony, these games are so close across the league. There's just so little margin for error. The Jaguars are better. You know, we talked about this yesterday, I've been waiting for Trevor Lawrence to sort of creep ahead incrementally and get to the point where he looked like he's. did in college. We're not there yet. But maybe, and the Kansas City Chiefs are now finding out

how everybody else lived over the past few years while they had all these plays work in their favor. I don't think it says anything grand. The Chiefs have plenty of time left to win more of these games than they lose, and the Jaguars have not sort of flexed to the point that they're in the clear. The Jaguars are not 14 and 3 yet. But I thought it was kind of cool the way they won that game and the way particularly Trevor Lawrence hung in there. Thank you for mentioning that you've waited for him since college. I have. Because I will tell you my first reaction, having seen that play, and it was, thank God he's

no longer at Clemson, because if your hand touches the ball and your knee goes down in college, that's it. Yeah. That's the end of the play. You can't make that play in college. I think it was a big time win for Jacksonville, maybe a big time win for Trevor Lawrence. as well. Jacksonville is now four and one among the teams they've beaten are

Kansas City, which has recently won a bunch of Super Bowls, and San Francisco, which has recently gotten to a Super Bowl, I believe, you know, they find themselves on top of the AFC standings. You know, they're tied with Buffalo and they're tied with Indianapolis. This is Jacksonville

we're talking about. I mean, are they a playoff team? Not necessarily. But right now, Mike, I'll tell you who's not a playoff team. Baltimore's not. I'll tell you, Cincinnati's not. Miami's not, and these are teams that are often in the playoffs. So maybe this was the breakthrough game with Trevor Lawrence. At the end of the game, he threw a lot of very good passes.

Maybe this coach is the coach who unlocks the door for Trevor Lawrence. One thing we got to touch on, how did you feel about Chris Jones, just sort of the best defensive player on the Chiefs and one of the best defensive players in the league? Just sort of looking around like there was a whistle. And only he heard it. That was a bad. It was a weird look for a player that great. I would say that he looked at the play in the same way I did from a distance.

That was sort of what happened. But you're right about Kansas City. You know, they should have won. They're up 14-0. They won 20-3 in a row up 14. Yes, you do. It's a good game. Let's move to baseball.

And the Dodgers going up 2-0 on the fills in that best of five. N-LDS. The Dodgers pulled their head with a four-run seventh. The Phillies could have tied it in the ninth, if not for two terrific infield outs by the Dodgers. First, that wheelplay on a sack bun, which got an out at third base. And second, a Freddie Freeman dig out at first. Tony, is this series more about what the Dodgers are doing or what the fills are not? So I think it's the Dodgers. You know that I think that the Dodgers and the Phillies are in the highest echelon there is in baseball. I think it's more about what the Dodgers are doing than what the Phillies are not.

The game was tied zero, zero into the seventh. Lazzardo was pitching great. A couple of guys get on, and all of a sudden it starts raining runs. And Will Smith gets a big hit, Shoyahani gets a big hit, and it's 4-0. But the Phillies come back, Mike. They come back for reasons that are unclear to me, Dave Roberts puts in Blake Trinon to get three outs in the ninth. Yeah, my boy, three outs in the ninth of a 4-1 game.

been to this movie with the Washington Nationals. Blake Trident doesn't get anybody out. And suddenly, two runs are in. It's a four or three game, and Castellanos is on second base. So they laid down a bun because he's the tying run. They laid down a bun to get him to third. And then you have this wheelplay. Muncie rushes in, turns around, throws the ball to Mukki Betts, who puts on the tag.

And Mike, you and I have kept a lot of score in our life at baseball games. I never wrote down five, six tag. I never wrote that down in my life. Nobody writes that down. Five, six tag. That doesn't ever happen. And then the Dodgers needed three pitchers in the ninth. And as you say, they'd save.

Freddie Freeman makes a great stretch and scoops the ball up. It's a terrible throw by the second base. It's terrible. They get out of the game. The Dodgers are narrowly, marginally better. That's it. That's the only conclusion drawn. These are two close games.

This is not like the Yankees and the Cubs getting blowed out. This is not like that. These games come down to like a play or so. I mean, you know, Jimmy Rollins in the post game explained it with such insight and precision on what Castellanos could have been doing to sort of get a bigger lead off a second and make it safely the third for a guy who's not particularly fast, but he also is not a particularly savvy base runner. And Jimmy Rollins was, but it was fascinating to watch all that stuff post game. And Mookie was great, and the Dodgers are precise, and the Phillies aren't getting hitting out of the guys. they need to get hits from. They might be able to do that once in Dodger land,

though they might be able to do that in Dodger Stadium. The top of the order, Trey Turner is the National League batting champ. Schwabber is the National League home run champ, and I believe that Harper is a two-time MVP, and they're two-for-21 at the moment, which, as we like to say, is San Diego Land. But that's what happens.

Stay with baseball. Deal with the agony of your Cubs. They took the lead in the top of the first on a 3-1 homer by Sayah Suzuki, but couldn't hold it. it for more than two outs. Then Milwaukee single, Milwaukee, single, Milwaukee three-run by Andrew Vaughn. Your Cubs never scored again, and the Brewers got two more homers, including another three-run shot by Jackson Churillo. Final score, 7-3. Well, on, the Cubs are

going back to Wrigley down 2-0, should Cubs fans still believe. I mean, we have to believe, but the Brewers are a better team. The Brewers at one stretch with 38 and 16 in July and August. And that is the stretch they use to win the division and separate themselves and give themselves a buy. And also prove to themselves when they walk out there like, no, we got this. That's how the brewers feel. That's how they should feel. They earned that. Can the Cubs win a game at Wrigley? I don't know. I mean, the Cubs got off to a bad start when Creg counsel said, I'm going to pitch Matthew Boyd on short rest. You know I support almost everything Craig Counsel has done all summer to get the Cubs to this position.

But starting Matthew Boyd, who's like 34 years old on short rest, that got the Cubs off to a bad start. And I don't know if we can recover. It doesn't look like we can recover. But, Tony, the Brewers are the better team. They feel like if they played those games at home. They didn't care that the Cubs got off to that start. And by the way, the two teams were seven and seven in that ballpark

or against each other. I'm sorry, seven and seven, but three and three in that ballpark going into that game last night. So it's not like they held a big edge, but the edge they have is all they need. So you're my friend, and I root for your team, but I watch these games. And yeah, Milwaukee is a better team. The Cubs, let me give you some numbers that I know are painful. The Cubs have only 12 runs in five playoff games at the moment. They struck out 11 times last night.

They struck out 58 times in these five games. They only got two hits after that home run in the first inning. They only got two more hits. And meanwhile, Milwaukee has 16 runs in two. two games, so you'll excuse me, but it feels like a beatdown at this point. Yeah, it is. I'm one of those people that, you know, I revere the Phillies and the Dodgers. I think that's the heavyweight division, and that's because I've looked at Milwaukee in recent playoff years. I think the last five times they've been in the playoffs, Mike, they've only won two games.

They've never advanced another round, and a lot of people say it's because they don't hit the long ball. They were 22nd in the major leagues this year in home runs. But if you get three in one night, you get three in a playoff game, that can change. the trajectory, you know, of what you're doing for the playoffs. So, I mean, I was, I was impressed. I was impressed by your boy, the MIS. The Mizz in his last eight appearances had a 606 ERA. Yeah.

And he was electric last night. You and other Cubs fans, I know, spent all summer taking shots at the Mizz. I did. Come on, now. I told you this kid was terrific. It was terrific. Everything he threw was a hundred. Did you hear me say he was electric last night?

He was hitting $100. Yeah. Let's take a break. Coming up, the Browns trade Joe Flacco to the Bengals. We're going to ask Jeff Saturday for his thoughts on that. We'll also ask him what he saw during Trevor Lawrence's scramble for that winning score. Yeah, the Miz, the Miz shut us down. 16 pitches of his 31, I think, reached 100.

Pardon the Interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted tea, hard iced tea. Please drink responsibly. Part of Happy Hour. You are watching, part in the interruption, presented by Twisted Tea, hard ice tea. Part of Happy Hour. Time to dig into the NFL trenches with our great friend ESPN NFL analyst, Jeff Saturday. Jeff, the Browns today, this afternoon, just traded Joe Flacko to the Bengals. That is a division rival.

What does that say to you? It ain't good. It ain't good, fellas. It's like, hey, we don't longer, this guy's not going to help us. We don't believe he's really going to help you, otherwise we wouldn't trade them to you, you know? But as I looked at the trade, this is no slight to Joe Flacco because, you know, he's had an incredible career and what he's done. But you're sitting him to a team that Burroughs already been hurt, that Browning gets pressured all the time. I'm not sure what the frustration is if it's like from the receiving core or whatever it is.

they just want somebody else change for change, but you got to protect the quarterback, especially a 40-plus-year-old. And I know you got Chase, I know you got Higgins. You better learn to seven-man protect so that he can get the ball off and throw those two guys.

Otherwise, this thing could get ugly in a hurry. I'm so glad. I'm so glad to me what, cushing over this trade, and Jeff is, as always the voice of reason. Let's go to last night. And Trevor Lawrence falling down on the ultimate play in that game,

And Jeff, when you see the reaction of the offensive lineman and defensive lineman, most of whom are on the ground. But when you look at the replay of that over and over, you focus first on what? Oh, the finish between the left guard and the tackle. So if you see Lawrence fall down and then get up and fall down again, as he's getting up, the guard comes over and peels and just blows up the defensive end who was trying to bull rush the tackle. knocks him clearly down, which honestly opens up a lane. Because you heard Trevor talking about it in his post game, he was thinking about standing up and just throwing the ball away. But all of a sudden, it's like the parting of the Red Sea, right?

And you see this thing open up, and here he goes running. And then you look on the other side. I didn't notice this during the play. But obviously this morning, we broke it down on get up. But Chris Jones is in the middle of the field. Doesn't even make an effort to run over. Yeah, just standing there. And so he literally can walk in the end zone.

and go score. I love to see the resiliency and the finish of the Jags, the way they finished that game in the offensive line, and obviously on a total flute play, and so many opportunities for the Chiefs to put it away that they couldn't. But it's special because that was a massive win for the Jags, and to finish it that way is such a feather in the cap and such a confidence booster.

A lot of respect for how they close it out. At the other end of the emotional spectrum was, of course, Cardinals coach Jonathan Gannon and his reaction first to DeMarcato and then his apology for the way he ended that whole thing in the end zone. How do you see that from the perspective of a former player and coach? Yeah. First, there's no place for it, right? Putting your hands on a player from a coach, right? You're the head coach. You're the ultimate authority on that team. So, you know, you go put your hands on a guy and the guy responds back, what's going to happen? I mean, it could have gotten much worse than it did from DeMarcato.

He handled it. You know, obviously it was frustrating and disappointing for him, but the way he handled the exchange between he and Gannon, he definitely handled it the right way by not doing anything back. But the issue for me is this, you'll see what it really meant if the guys really buy into the apology because it felt authentic. Like what Gannon said, I thought felt authentic. I felt like he, look, I blew it.

I got caught up in my mother. All of those things are true, right? But don't forget, like, the game wasn't over when that happened. They still got a lead, right? But the credibility he's built in the locker room will go a long way here, because the guys will see this as truly being authentic. Hey, bad moment. This is not him.

This is not him. He was out of character for him. He lost it in a moment. We've all done that in our life. We're going to get over it. And again, like, from a player perspective, we do and say a lot of things on the sideline, right? And Dominique Foxworth said it best. On the sideline, there's no HR department, right?

Like, we've said things to each other, to coaches, players that aren't kind. And what he did was not acceptable. You don't ever want to put your, but they can squash it. Those two can squash it and the team as a whole. And that's hoping what I hope will come of this is, hey, he's built enough credibility in the locker room, the guys accept the apology, except that he knew he was wrong and then move on. Let us get you out of here on this. Alabama has been getting the ball to a 370 pound offensive tackle, Caden Proctor.

What is your review as a former lineman? I'm sure you're jealous. What is your review of his abilities? I'm so jealous, but I'm so happy simultaneously. Like, I love to see, you know, the pass on the sideline a couple weeks ago. He's over there shaking, shaking, bacon, tiptoeing the sideline. Now he's bowling people over. Like, there is nothing better than seeing a guy who works for a living.

And yes, that's what we call ourselves in the trenches. Dudes who go to work for a living and get some shine and get the ball in his hands. I absolutely love it. No more respect for any coaches that will put a cat like that and give him some payoff and some reward. It is a thing of beauty. As I'd like to say, it's glorious to watch for all involved, man. Go online. Let's go make it happen, baby.

As always, thank you, Jeff. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Oh, appreciate it, fellas. Let's take one last break, but coming up, could star Oklahoma quarterback John Mateer return in time for Saturday's big rivalry game against Texas. And will the Blue Jays in the Yankee season tonight?

Spoiler alert? No. I mean, you know, I know, I understand how a coach wants to make amends and keep the locker room. But the guy let go with the Bulls. He let go with a ball. He let go with a ball before he went into the end zone. They win.

You can't do that unless your name is Ditka. Or what other head coach could have done that? There's a short... Pardon the interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted tea, hard iced tea. Please drink responsibly. Part of Happy Hour. Happy time, people. Happy 33rd birthday, Mukie Betts.

That's now the Dodgers full-time shortstop after playing right. stopped after playing right field and second base during his tenure in los angeles when he was in boston betts was a full-time outfield that's when the american league MVP for the red sox in 2018 then got traded inexplicable in what was reported to be a cost-cutting move in 2020 how crazy was that betts is now part of a devastating top of the order for the dodgers show he atani betts freddie freeman vets has a world series ring from boston in 2018 and two from los angeles 2020 20, 2024. He is also a terrific bowler, having bowled 300 games. I wonder if Betts plays golf. I bet he's great at everything. How stupid is it? Now, the Red Sox have won so much. Maybe they

think they're insulated from anything and they can do something as dumb as getting rid of Mamma, ma-ma-ma-ma-mooky bets. It's plain stupid. But they keep winning, so you get forgiven. Happy anniversary, Drew Brees on this day, 13 years ago. He broke Johnny Unitas' NFL record for consecutive games with a touchdown pass, 48. Breeze ran his total up to 54 games. Tom Brady got the closest to 52. The current active leader is Lamar Jackson with 28 consecutive games of the touchdown pass.

Curiously, missed games do not automatically end the touchdown passing street. Breeze had 571 career touchdown passes, and that is second all-time to Brady, who has 649. Peyton Manning is third, 539. Aaron Rogers, the active leader, fourth all-time, 511. Brett Farb is next with 508. How many games did Cal Ripkin get to miss and say, oh, wait, that one doesn't count. I'll pick it up next Sunday.

Zero. How many Cal get to do that? Zero would be the correct answer. Zero. Happy trails to John Mateer's absence for Oklahoma? As soon as quarterback is reportedly pushing to play in Saturday's game against Texas, less than three weeks ago, he broke a bone in his third. throwing hand in a win over

Auburn. Mateer's been considered a leading candidate for the Heisman, but Oklahoma had a buy and then a romp over Ken State, so his absence has yet to hurt the sixth ranked sooner's in the win-loss column. Remember when the Oklahoma Texas game used to be like the third week?

Yes. You could set your life by it. The third week of the college football season. It was such a great game, and you look forward to it so much, and now just play it whenever. We'll see what happens. College football. One update. One update for you. Mookie Betts is reportedly a 10 handicapped. See, there we have it.

Why don't you play them? Just go play them. See how you do. Let's go to the big finish. Let's do it. The NFL will reportedly find Jerry Jones $250,000 for flipping off Jets fans on Sunday. Okay by you? I want this show. His will be okay by me. This show should be a Jerry Jones free zone and show. Sometimes, most of the week, if not all of it. Cooper Flagg scored. 10 points in 14 minutes and its preseason debut against the thunder. Were you impressed? It doesn't matter. Exhibition games, they just don't matter.

When the regular season starts, wake me, I'll watch. The Bucks and Nix reportedly had trade talks involving Janus's summer. Does that make sense? Yes, it does make sense. And I told you the other day, Janus is going to be gone before the end of this season. Somewhere, I don't know where. And it won't be the NICS. Penns at Rangers tonight.

Are you excited about that? It's the regular season. Yes, because of Sidney Crosby. Sidney Crosby of Gennie Malkin and Chris LaTang are now going to play for a 20th season together. Last one, will the Blue Jays close out the Yankees tonight? No. I've been telling you this for two days.

No. No, the Yankees are going to come back and win tonight. This series is going to get some drama to me. Count on it. Book it. Rodan is going tonight. We'll see if it works out. We're out of time. Trying to do better than next time.

I'm Tony Corny. I'm Mike Wilbon. I'm back on the mothership tomorrow, you knuckleheads.