PTI - How Impressive Were the Lions?

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the Lions, the Ravens, and the Lynx. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. Zion Williamson looks to be in great shape, tone. How's your physique these days?

I'm Tony Cornheiser. With or without Spanx. You've got to tell him. You're without Spanx. Well, you know. If you don't tell anybody and you're not flexing, you might get away with it. You might get away with some Spanx.

So Zion and Luca, who you have been very critical of. Yes, both of them, right? Both of them. Both in shape, right? That's fair. They look great. We'll see. Welcome to PTI boys and girls.

In today's episode, Derek Henry Fumbles, the Reeling Tigers face the Rolling Guardians, and Jeff Saturday joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the Detroit Lions going on the road to Baltimore and beating the Ravens 38 to 30. That's a lot of points. Jared Goff was 20 to 28 for 202 yards

and a touchdown, no interceptions. And the Lions ran like crazy. David Montgomery had 151 yards and two touchdown. touchdowns. Jamir Gibbs had 67 yards and two other touchdowns. Wilbon, you said yesterday you were rooting against Detroit. What does his victory say about the lions? Yeah, Tony, they look like they found their stride fairly early in the race. It's a long season things can happen. But listen, Tony, when you have that defense healthy, and it wasn't last year, they lost almost everybody important

to the defense. They lost them all before Thanksgiving, and they limped into the fight. stretch of the season in the playoffs against the commanders. That ain't the case now. They got these dudes out there and they want to run the ball. They want to pound you. The score doesn't say they pounded Baltimore, but they pounded Baltimore. You show David Montgomery, look, the bears got rid of them and you can look at the production and say, well, the production might be the same, but there's a toughness about David Montgomery, a toughness about him that the lions rely on and they play well when they can flex in that way and run the ball and set up what they want to do. Still trick plays, even though Ben Johnson's gone.

The Lions looked like they needed a moment in week one to say, let's give us a minute to figure out what's going on. And they figured it out, and now it's let's go. Yeah. There is an ebb and flow to a season. When you only have 17 games, there's a tendency to maybe make a judgment a little bit early. The Lions were beaten decisively by Green Bay in the old. opening game, right? 27, 13, and a lot of people, including you, got on the Packers and said

that looks like a Super Bowl team and maybe threw away the Lions a little bit. I found it odd. I remember saying this on the air that by week two, Dan Campbell was saying this is a must win. Really? So quickly. And that was the Bears and they crushed the Bears. That's the Division team. They crushed them. Was it 52-21? Now they beat Baltimore on the road, a perennial playoff team. They have answered all of these things. They have scored 90 points in the last two games. There was a Lions team that did that as recently as Hello,

1962. And they ran, you want to talk about running, 224 yards running. So they answered whatever criticism was out there. And I think when it gets time to the Wilbon power rankings in the NFC,

you have to put the Lions once again in the top three or four, right? Oh, no doubt, Tony. You go into Baltimore and you do that. Yes. And again, I just, Maybe week one, you mentioned it, and it's fair to mention it.

But week one was, wait a minute, we're starting over here with some things. We're getting our star pass rusher back after missing most of the last season. We got two new coordinators. We got some stuff. We've got to figure out. Give us a moment. They took the moment, and they seemed to have figured it out. Seemed to have.

It's early. Very impressive. Very impressive. It is impressive. The Ravens, meanwhile, suddenly find themselves at one and two. the defense has struggled, and Derek Henry fumbled the ball away again last night, Tone. What do you see is the big questions the Ravens need to answer? How much time do we have?

Because there are a lot of questions out there, okay? And let's start with the lines, the offensive line and the defensive line. The offensive line did not protect yesterday. Lamar Jackson was sacked seven times. That's the most he's ever been sacked. The defensive line was non-existent. This is a franchise built on defense. You associate defense with the Baltimore Ravens.

Yes. Last night they gave up two drives of 95 yards or longer. 25 plays, and they could not stop the team in 25 plays. I mean, Baltimore has now given up, let me get it right, 96 points. That's the second worst in the NFL. And they have their two best players on offense. Lamar Jackson, he fumbled, got it back, but he fought. fumbled and Derek Henry fumbled. This is a fantastic statistic. Derek Henry's fumbled three times

in 43 touches this year. In 2003 and 24, he fumbled three times as well in 694 touches. Okay? So if we broaden this out, what have we learned? Baltimore has played two good teams. Buffalo and Detroit, they've lost both those games. They had leads in both those games. They lost both those games. They gave up 79 points. in those games. This is not what we think of as a Super Bowl team. No, Tony, the 79 points is the disturbing part to me. This is the franchise of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed and Tony Siragusa. This is not a franchise where people go up and down like a track meet,

like the World Track and Field Championships we've just been watching against the Ravens in Baltimore. It's stunning to see. They got to fix that first and foremost. And John Harbaugh talked about we had no run defense. They didn't. They have no run-de-fish. You go 224 at home. Somebody goes 224 down your throat.

But let me get to something. This is going to sound sacrilegious. I hesitate to mention it because Lamar Jackson is so gifted and great. And he can beat you from the pocket. He can beat you outside of it. He can beat you with his arm. He can beat you with his legs. Tony, I wonder looking at Lamar Jackson last night if he's lost his burst.

If he has lost his explosion. I'm talking about he got caught. from behind a half dozen times last night. That's not Lamar Jackson. And I'm looking at this and I'm scared to text it. But I text people and I was like, I don't know if I should go here, but is it possible that seven years in with all the hits seven plus that he's taken, he's not even 29 yet, that it's just he's lost that magical burst.

He's merely a great athlete now and not otherworldly. I got, listen, I hope I'm wrong. I hope the question is stupid, but I'm looking at it last night going, I don't see the Lamar Jackson I've been used to seeing. All right. Let's turn to baseball now in the closest division race remaining, and that would be the AL Central, where Detroit is only one game ahead of Cleveland.

Detroit has lost nine of its last 10. Cleveland has won 15 of its last 17, and they begin a three-game series tonight in Cleveland. Wilbon, which team would you rather see prevail? Tony, I think Detroit, but I don't have a real reason. You know, these are two, you know, teams of the Midwest. And in other circumstances, I've rooted for either one of them. I would, you know, I spent a chunk of my life being a Chicago win,

going to Detroit and Cleveland for various purposes. First, for family visits, I would go to the old ballpark, the Cleveland Indians played in, which is where the Browns two played at the time. I go to the old Briggs field to see the Tigers, and I love going to those places and watching baseball, where it's been around for 150 years. And it's just sort of cool to see them. The air is not turning cool here in the Midwest,

as it usually does this late in September, but it's just great to see Cleveland and Detroit playing each other. The last time I was in Cleveland for a baseball game, there was something called Game 7, and the Cubs are winning a World Series. but I can't pick one over the other. Narrowly Detroit, maybe, but I'm interested in seeing this series

and how it plays out. This is a tough one for me because in that division, I root for the Kansas City Royals because their manager, Matt Cottriero, listens to my podcast. I will say this, and I know you'll appreciate it, when you're a young sports writer,

and they send you out on long baseball road trips to fill in for the older guys, everybody loves going to Detroit in the middle of the summer because it stays light, so long they don't even have to put the lights on till the 8th. Sometimes you don't have to do it at all. Look, this is a very surprising turn of events.

On July 9th, Detroit was 15 and a half games ahead of Cleveland. Detroit was 59 and 34. Cleveland was 42 and 48. Detroit has fallen like the Mets. And nobody in the world would expect Cleveland to be 15 and 2 at this point. Nobody knows anybody on that team except for Jose Ramirez. They can't hit, Mike. They're 30th in batting average.

They're 27th and run scored. But they can pitch. And this is the number. They've allowed 34 runs in last 19 games. We talk about momentum. Cleveland has a momentum. But if momentum is today's starting pitcher, Detroit has Tarek school on a mound tonight.

Let's take a break. Coming up, how will the absence of Nick Bosa change things for the Niners opponents? We will ask Jeff Saturday. We'll also ask if the Colts Early success is sustainable. I think we have to root a little bit for Detroit because our friend Mitch Album is from Detroit, right?

It's got to root a little. Let's dig back into the NFL trenches with our great friend ESPN NFL analyst, Jeff Saturday. We're going to talk about Derek Henry. He's a great running back. No question about that. He's now fumbled three times already this year. He's lost two of them.

As an offensive lineman, okay, I know you like to run the ball. Everybody in the offensive line would rather go forward than go backwards. But do doubts ever creep in, even with someone as great as Derek Henry? They really don't, Tony. And the truth is what you're more concerned with is that the doubts creep in to his head. Because as an offensive lineman, you have this trust and this implicit trust in the guys that are going to run the ball. You're going to go put hat on hat.

You're going to knock guys down. He's going to go make that explosive play like he made in the first quarter where he bounces it. and takes it for 25 or whatever it was for a touchdown. So every time you put the ball in his hand, you're expecting an explosive play. Unfortunately, the last few, you know, last couple weeks, it's been disastrous, right? The one against Buffalo and then the one last night, and you can see, like, the weight on him, and you can feel how disappointed he is in himself for what's going on. But as an offensive lineman, when you got a guy like Henry, I mean, a Hall of Fame,

or the guy is a freight train. He's a bring your own blocker. You love fighting for guys like that. You want to fight with him to get through this and look back on this as you're trying to ascend to the Super Bowl at the end of the year and go, man, you remember how bad we felt after week three and put this thing behind you?

Well, I know how much everybody in the industry hates injuries, Jeff. But the one guy people will not have to fight with anymore. The rest of this season is Nick Bosa, who's out for the season now. What does that do for the office? offensive linemen as they face the 49ers, and they don't have him specifically bearing down on them? Yeah. So as an offensive lineman, you have, you have pass rushers, you know, tough ones, and you've got closers. And Bosa is in the closer category, right? Game on the line, you know, third and four plus.

Everybody in the building knows you got to throw it or you're going to throw it and he's on the edge. You are moving around. You want to find him, right? Because he's the guy who's going to. to make the play. He's going to spin inside. He's going to hand slap you. He's going to work the edge. He's going to fight through you. He's going to be relentless in his rush, you know, strip sacks, all those kinds of things that kind of come to mind. Guys like that are difference makers in the NFL. There are a lot of really good pass rushers. But guys who close in those moments, which is the category I would put Bosa in, it is a sigh of relief, you know, for offensive linemen, because those are the ones we put our antennas up, right? You track them, you find them,

As a center, as you're calling protections, you're always looking to see where he's lined up. Is he coupled with somebody that he loves to run games with? You know, there's a litany of things that you're thinking about when there's that kind of guy. It's a massive loss out in San Fran. You hate to see it for anybody. But the Niners have had a ton of injuries early, and that one's a big one. Because, again, as you get to the games that matter, you want guys like that lined up to close games out. We're going to stay with the offensive line for one more question, Jeff.

The Houston, Texas, 0 and 3 now, spent their offseason trying to fix, build up, figure out what was up with their offensive line. I guess they came into the season thinking they had done it and they haven't. What's the problem there? It sounds like more than one. So I'm going to say it this one. This is when the idea of just players are going to fix a problem, right? This particular player is not going to be good.

So we're going to replace him with someone else. The organization as a whole or the team as a whole has not done a good job of placing protection at the forefront. And Strout is an absolute stud. I have a ton of respect for this kid, but he gets hit a ton. And I don't care how strong you, how big you are. When you start getting hit, you start making bad decisions because bad things creep in your mind. Your feet move, your eyes drop down. There's a number of different things that happen to quarterbacks.

this has to be a let's fix it with scheme as much as we're trying to fix it with just players. So whether you've got to keep tight ends in, you've got to keep backs out, you're going to have fewer guys in the route. And again, part of this is, you know, running back was hurt, you know, Mixing's hurt. He's not, so the run game isn't as good. Collins is there, but he's really your only threat. So there's not a lot of fear being struck in the defense anyway. So how can we manufacture? But I would tell you this, every, every pass play that I ever.

ever ran with Peyton Manning as my quarterback was a protection first play. And you want to how do we protect it and allow him to figure it out? Right now Stroud has taken way too many hits and it's trickling down into his performance and the offense as a whole. Thank you for mentioning you and Peyton Manning. It gets me to the next question. You're great talking about other teams, but now we're going to talk about your team. You played for the Colts. You coached the Colts. The Colts are now a surprising 3-0. What are you seeing that's making them successful? Nobody figured 3-0. And is it sustainable? Well, it is sustainable. And I will tell you, Warren, the addition of Warren offensively, the tight end who they drafted early in early in the draft has been phenomenal.

The first game we were there for the Jim Ursa, Ring of Honor induction, I think he caught the first four passes that Daniel Jones through. Shane Steichen has done a fantastic job of getting him comfortable. Jonathan Taylor is on a blazing pace. They're running back. He's running wild. Their receivers are making big plays. He's averaging, Daniel Jones is averaging nine yards of completion. 72 percent, I think, completion rate. Like, it's absurd. But this team can do it because at every position, they're good. At some positions, they're great, but they're good at almost every position from offensive line, receivers, tied in, running back when you have that. And Daniel Jones is executing at a high level.

It is sustainable. Their defense is doing their job, keeping this thing happening. You know, the Denver thing is, misfield goal, you know, penalty, all that kind of stuff. That happens in the NFL. But this team, it will be one to face come playoff time because everybody will be nervous. Daniel Jones continues to keep playing the way he is. Playoff time. You got them in the playoffs.

Look at you. Absolutely. I got them as champs, baby. Let's go. All right. Okay. Wow. Let's take one last break.

Still to come, the Giants make a change in quarterback. Of course they did. Should we expect the results to differ? And Oklahoma State says, see ya. To his long time head coach. You know, Tony, I always say Jeff is the voice of reason. Voice of reason on all these issues, everything. He's the reason.

Interruption is brought to you by the all new ESPN app. All of ESPN, all in one place. Your home for the most and best live sports. Happy time, people. Happy 29th birthday, Nefisa Collier. The Minnesota Link Star was a finalist for WNBA MVP, but lost out to Asia Wilson, winning a record fourth MVP. Collier played for Gino Oriam at Connecticut and won a national championship there in 2016. She has spent her entire WNBA career in Minnesota, where she was rookie of the year in 2019, defensive player of the year in 2024, and a five-time all-star. Collier averaged a personal best, 22.9 points per game this regular season.

The links are currently one game up in their semi-final playoff series against Phoenix. Game two is tonight. Tony, when you're a franchise and you lose the Great Meyer Moore, I mean, you know, she retires. It's going to be impossible to replace her, except the Feast of Collier, man, with a cast of characters, has come really close, and they have not suffered. They're back in the finals. Happy anniversary, Dave Craig, on this day, 40 years ago, the Seattle Seahawks quarterback, babbled a fourth and gold shotgun snap, then picked up the ball, excuse me, that the Rams had tried to gather for scoop and score, scrambled to his right and threw a touchdown pass to the Seahawks standing green. Craig started out as a seventh string quarterback at a tiny, now defunct school in Wisconsin, Milton College. He ended up in the NFL for 19 years after he worked out as an undrafted rookie for the Seahawks in 1980

and caught on as their third string quarterback. Craig became a three-time pro bowler. His is the story that dreams are made of. Tony, speaking of replacing people, Craig had to try and replace Jim Zorn, who was like all, everything at the beginning of that franchise's history. So if I said to you, you got to put one, Craig or Zorn, which way you're going? Craig's numbers are better. His lifetime numbers are better. Happy trails to Russell Wilson's starting job.

The winless giants are reportedly starting rookie Jackson Dart at home against the unbeaten charges on Sunday. The Giants are coming off a loss of the Chiefs in which Wilson had a pass or rating of just 43.8. The previous week, Wilson threw for 450 yards, but that was against the Cowboys defense, so everyone may have overrated it. The Giants drifted dark 25th overall out of Ole Miss, and the fans have been chanting for him. Tony, you can still put him in there too early and ruin him. I mean, everybody's got to be rushed in because Russell Wilson looked ordinary at this point. They had to know that when they signed him. It's not 2013.

It's not Super Bowl. Russ. What did you think you were doing? Unbelievable. No, it's been ordinary for years. For years. And a bonus, happy trail is to do. doing it the easy way again for Jacob Young.

The Nats center fielder made this show yesterday for a remarkable catch he made against the wall on Sunday when he lost the ball, then kicked it, caught it for an out. Last night, Young added to his highlight reel, bobbling a sinking liner before shagging it with his bare hand. That's pretty good, Tony. I was gonna say, oh, he just coordinated this stuff.

Nope, he's just quick and decisive. Maybe a little lucky. It's great fielder. If only he could hit. Big finish quickly. Let's do it. fired football coach Mike Gundy. Does that make sense?

He won 10 games a lot of times. I know he had a bad season this year, 11 out of 12 losses going back to last year, but not the whole season. You couldn't give him the whole season. Titans head coach Brian Callahan, handing over play calling duty to quarterback's coach. Bo Harding Green. What does that mean? It means Harding Green knows Cam Ward better than anybody.

It's a good move. The Liberty will not renew the contract of head coach Sandy Brandello. You're surprised, aren't? What? She won a championship, a little. over a year a year ago what baseball will officially implement the automated ball strike challenges next season you okay with that emphatically yes last one the ais is trying to even their series with a fever at home tonight you like their chances yeah they better win they can't go 02 down in the

five game series losing the first two at home no no no we're out of time we'll try to do better the next time i'm tony corn on and i'm mike will bond same time tomorrow knuckleheads you fire a Championship winning coach? What? Air Sports. BTI.