PTI - Is it Fair to Criticize to Ant-Man?

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the NBA playoffs, NHL Playoffs, and Shohei Ohtani. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. It's National Nothing to Fear Day, Tony. You fear anything?

I'm Tony Cornhires. You know me well. Snakes, spiders, emotional intimacy. I can't have that. Yeah. It's a long list. Yeah. Best I remember, it's quite a list.

Yeah. And you know what? As you get older, it gets longer. Does it? Because people get, yet, you don't feel you got crazier as you've gotten older? Meaner. This is what I'm saying. Meanor.

The list of things that upset you get longer as you get older. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls, and today's episode, The Hurricanes finally win. Shohei is heating up, and Tim Legler joins us for five minutes. Thanks. But we begin today with the Minnesota Timberwolves losing last night at home to Oklahoma City

and digging themselves a three-to-one hole in this series. Minnesota's best player, Anthony Edwards, had 16 points on 13 shots. He went one of seven on threes. Afterwards, Edwards said, and I quote, I don't really look at it like I struggled. I didn't struggle at all. I just made the right plays, unquote.

Well, but I know how much you love him, but is that how you see this? No. Of course he struggled. He was made to struggle. Oklahoma City's defense made him struggle. And he's going to have to realize that at some point or another. Tony, you remember when there was a book that our friend Sam Smith Road, the Jordan Rules. And what that started with was the rules that the Detroit Pistons.

defense put in the play to stop, shut down, erase Michael Jordan. I have it on good authority that the defense that Oklahoma City was playing last night resembled that quite a bit on Ant Man, who is not Jordan, but he could take over a game like Jordan. I just want to make sure you're not comparing him to jump. Please don't do that. But Tony, there was one point in which you can see Kaysan Wallace, who's going to be an all-league defender, starts out on Ant Man like 75 feet from the basket.

He passes him off to Caruso, who was all-league last year. He passes him off to Lou Dort, whose I voted for, first number one, defensive player of the year. That was my vote. And then he gets passed off to J.W. There's four seconds left in the shot clock.

And he's relieved, man, just to get the shot off. It's not about a decision. They made the decision for you. And his team's going to have to help do something about that, Tony. But no, he struggled and was forced to struggle. Yeah. So we have a problem he and I about the definition of struggling. He took two shots.

in the first half. I think he had four points. In two of the three games that Minnesota has lost, he has taken 13 shots and 13 shots. And okay, I'm going to grant that you know what you're talking about. And there's a special defense out there. But if that happens and you're the best player and you're playing at home, you have to do something different to win this game. Like you have to get 10 to 15 assists, which would have won this game. And he had he had six assists. would have got it. All right. Now, the other part is if you are being doubled here or there

or if you know that people are lurking to jump in on you here or there, right, then you've got to do something other than what you're doing. And also you can't have five turnovers. You can't do that. The other guy- And Julius Randall had 10 turnovers. They can't have that.

Okay, right. So thank you for mentioning Julius Randall, who you said last week was the X factor in this series. I'm right. In those same two, yeah, but it's the wrong X. in those same two games that I'm talking about, he had six points and five points, three for 18 from the floor and nine turnovers. He's killing Minnesota. So, I mean, you look at this, and I understand it may be pride talking that Anthony Edwards is saying, I didn't struggle at all, it may be pride.

But you also have to play better defense, and you can't have four rebounds and no steals. Tony. Where are you? Two things here. One, Minnesota better do something about Shade Gildes, Alexander. treat him like they are treating your star defensively. Put two people run a double at SGA every chance you get. Williams could then respond with 40 points.

They had 74 last night. But he's the Scotty Pippin character. He's Robin. SGA, if he beats me, if you beat me doing it that way, fine. So they're going to have to do that, Tony. Here's the other thing. Remember, the Minnesota to me played a B-plus A-minus game last night. They got 64 points from their bench.

But Oklahoma City played an A game, straight A game last night. Do you remember what I told you yesterday? Yeah. I told you I thought Oklahoma didn't win. I thought they were back to you. I texted you last night and I gave you credit. I appreciate that. You were right about that.

But I did it publicly just now. You did it private. Privately is just not good enough. No. Over in the NHL, the hurricanes have been total no-shows against the Panthers until last night. Carolina beat Florida 3-0 to snap that 15 straight lost streak. in the Eastern Conference Finals. The series now returns to Carolina

with the Canes down three games to one. Tony, how much do you think the Canes can actually take from this single victory? So that question does not exist in a vacuum. That question is going to be based on where they go from here in this series. If they win

no more games or one more game, then they get cold comfort, only that their statistical disaster in Eastern Conference Finals is over. It stops at 15. with three sweeps and an 03. But that if they were to win two more, if they were to force a game seven,

that's a different story. As you well know, in the history of hockey, there are four teams that have gone from 03 and won a series. There's nobody in the NBA and there's a Boston Red Sox in baseball, and that's all there are. But last year, Edmonton was down 3-0 in the finals to Florida and forced to game seven. So you walk out of there with a certain amount of pride

if you get to that point, if you get to that point. There are certain things that are hopeful, signs for them. They scored first last night. Carolina's 6-0 in these playoffs when they score first. They have killed eight straight penalties. That's a big deal. Penalty killing is a big deal, and I want to get the

goalie's name right? Anderson. Frederick Anderson, pitched a shutout last night after being yanked in game two and benched in game three. So those are good signs. This is one good sign to me, and I hear you about the scoring first, and that's a fact. There's one good sign. Goaltending,

as we know, in the Stanley Cup play, playoffs can change everything. Everything. You can ride a goaltender like you ride a great horse, and you can change a series, you can win a series, even if everything else is subpar and your goaltending is great. So the question is, how good is Anderson going to be? He only had to stop 20 shots last night, which is not a barrage, but he did it. I'll grant you that.

Now, is he settled in now? Are they going to be able to go to him and get the performance they got last night and not the one in game two? Because he was benched for game three. That's right. To me, Tony, that's the thing that they have to hang their hats. Let me give you one other thing. And I know they lost early on this. Game five is in Carolina.

If they get to seven, it's in Carolina. That matters less in hockey than in other sports, but it matters a little. It matters a little. Right? Let's go to baseball. Last night, Shohei Otani, hit the first pitch he saw for a home run. That is the second game in a row. He has hit a lead-off home run.

O'Tonnie now has 19 homers that is the most in the majors. Aaron Judge did not hit a home run last night, but he went one for two and he raises batting average to hello, 398, best in the majors, and 48 points clear of the second place hitter in the American League. Wilbon, these are clearly two biggest stars in baseball. Who do you expect more from the rest of the way, Judge or Otani? Tony, more is a difficult word for me.

I don't expect more from either. I expect them to continue on because they've shown us they can do this for entire seasons, plural. Judge is not going to hit 400. not going to hit 395. He's going to come back to the pack a little bit. I think his career high, you know, is what is what is like 315 or 318? He's not a guy who's going to, he's not Tony Gwyn.

No. So he's going to come back. Otani's going to do what he does. He's hit 300 twice. But, you know, not, again, not a 320 guy. But Otani can increase this. He can get to 310, 315. He's going to hit his 48 to 50 home runs.

So I'm going to say to answer the question, it's Otani. I am not buying into anything. of this pitching stuff yet. He pitched batting practice. I could pitch batting practice. Celebrities go to baseball parks and they like Kevin Costner throws betting practice. I'm not swayed by that yet. Otani's going to be great.

Will he be a little greater than judge the rest of the way marginally so to me? So here's where we disagree. Not on Otani, because I expect more from Otani because I expect O'Tani to pitch. And the pitching means a lot to me when I watched it on television. when he was pitching to the Dodgers. And it was practice, and it wasn't serious. But if you watched it, his curveball went, I don't know, five full feet. And he hit 97 on the radar gun.

And it wasn't just that the Dodgers were watching him. The Mets came out to watch him as well. Because he is a charismatic figure. So over the weekend, as you know, I watched so much sports on TV. I watched the basketball playoffs. I watched the hockey playoffs. I watched the NBA, a congressional. I watched the regular PGA stop.

I dropped in on lacrosse in your honor. I dropped in on softball and stuff like that. The most exciting thing I saw, the most exciting thing was Otani throwing batting practice. I couldn't get enough of it because of this, Mike, because if he comes back to pitch this year and he pitches like he did with the Angels, he's going to be the greatest baseball player of all time.

And if he comes back this year and pitches like he did with the Angels, the Dodgers have the best shot to be World Series champions. And they already have the best shot. They got the best shot anyway. That's right. They don't need him to pitch. That's right. What I saw batting practice was guys hitting those pitches, those batting practice pitches.

I'm sorry. They made contact. I expect swinging the miss. If you're going to be that great and you're going to tell me that he's going to make a difference. They swung on a five-foot curveball. I just saw a lot of contact for batting. It's batting practice. I'm not going to diminish what I saw his hitting because of pitching batting practice.

Otani is the most. dominant offensive player in the National League. And he's got Mookie bets to help him and Freddie Freeman? Right. But that lineup that the Dodgers have, Otani's going to be great enough if he doesn't go out there

and throw a meaningful pitch all this season. Did you see judges OPS is 1.2.4-A. It's crazy. It's Bons-like. It's Barry Bonds. I mean, what's not to like with Judge? But again, Otani pitches. So when Judge pitches, let me know and I'll watch. But O'Tonnie pitchers. Just real quickly.

O'Tonnie and Judge? they don't lead the majors and runs batted in, neither one of them. Not yet? Well, they could guess. I'll give you $1,000 right now if you tell me who leads. And they better not help you in your ear. You've got to go to break is all I heard. The Cubs got.

Let's take a break. You're the Cubs guy. Let's take a break. Let's take a break coming up. Sayah Suzuki. Why do the Knicks seem to be more effective with either Carl Anthony Towns or Jalen Brunson on the bench? We're going to ask Tim Legler. We'll also ask him what the pastures could be missing if Aaron Neesmith is absent from or compromised in tonight's game.

The answer. To all your questions is somebody on the bulls or the bears or the cups. Not the Mets? All your questions. Pardon the interruption is brought to you by Popeyes. Love that chicken from Popeyes. Let's dig back into the NBA playoffs with our great friend. And I mean that, our great friend for a long time.

ESPN NBA analyst, Tim Legler. What is this in 1990s? We've been doing this with Legler that long? Let's go over to the Cops Center. Through this segment. It's been a while. Game four of the Nixon Pacers is tonight. Aaron Neesmith is likely a game time decision for Indiana with an ankle sprain.

How important is Neesmith to what the Pacers do? Critical because of his physicality on Brunson. He fights over screens better than anybody they have. It's a big part of defending Jalen Brunson. So his size matters. Obviously, his shooting matters. He had that moment and that once in a lifetime event in game one. But aside from that, he's very important to spacing the floor.

However, I think there's an opportunity here for somebody else. is limited or doesn't play in any way. Benedict Matherin has not inserted himself into this series at all. In fact, in the last five games, I think he's got 15 total points. It's a guy to average 17 points a game for the Pacers this year. I don't know what's going on with Benedict Matherin. He's due to bounce out of it. So there could be an opportunity there for him, at least from a scoring standpoint.

But you're not replacing what Neesmith does defensively if he's out in this game. Let's go to the Knicks for a second, because there are these numbers that, I don't know, maybe annoy me, that show that the Knicks are better with either Brunson or Towns on the bench, better than they are with both of them on the floor? Does this make sense to you? And if it does, how do you make sense of it? It does make some sense to me for this reason. Both out there together, first of all, it's a prime target to attack the both of them at the same time

if you want to get ball screen going. Because neither one of those guys are necessarily in the top half of the league at their position defensively, particularly defending ball screens, which the Patriot set. a ton. So Tyrese Halliburton can handpick in this series who he wants to play against when they're both out there together. It's a little harder when one of those guys is off the floor, particularly towns. Offensively, it also, I think, affects Carl Anthony Towns. You saw what he did in the fourth quarter of the other night when he was the primary option. He was the alpha. Everything went through him. Top of the food chain. You see what he can do when he gets into a rhythm. It's a little harder

with Brunson. The way that he plays, not that he's not a great player, doesn't deserve all that freedom, but it does affect a guy like towns. So I can see even their offensive numbers not being quite as good. So it does make some sense. The question for Tom Tibido, can you push the right buttons at the right time to stagger all of that with your seven or eight guys that you play to get another win and even this up? We've seen the Pacers in a very identifiable pattern. They win the first two games in the road in these series. They come home. They lose game three at home, but then they come back and went four and five. Does this pattern make sense?

And do you see it continuing? I think the Indiana Pacers are in a good spot. Now, clearly, you blow a 20-point lead and a chance to go up 3-0. That's big. That's an emotional change. It feels different psychologically for the Knicks. If you look at the Indiana Pacers through three games,

you ask Rick Carlisle, what percentage of those minutes have you played the style that's closest to your identity when you're at your best? He'd say a very high percentage of those minutes. They feel really good. about what they can do offensively to the Knicks.

They got stagnant in the second half, too much dribbling, too much ISO, not as much ball movement, not as much player movement. That's when they're really good when they're playing that way. Give the Knicks credit. They jumped on it. The door got kicked open. They ran in the room. But the Pacers had some self-inflicted moments offensively.

Overall, I think they're in a very good place because they're doing what they want in this series on that end. I'll move to the other series and get you out of here after I just say this. I know what you're saying about Townsend Brunson, but it's counterintuitive to us. We just think, well, how can that be? How can it be? All right, so we move. What do you think the Timberwolves need to do differently to beat the Thunder tomorrow

and force a game six in Minnesota? Put it all together on the same night, which they have not done one time in this series. So, you know, game one, Randall plays great. Anthony Edwards is just okay, and they can't make any threes. They move forward. Game two, then it's Anthony Edwards is great. Julius Randall doesn't give you anything against bench in the fourth quarter. role players still aren't making threes.

You know, game three, they get the big win. Randall's and Edwards both play well. They make some threes. It's a 42-point game. You can't take a whole lot from it. And then you go to last night, Anthony Edwards, fairly quiet. Randall, no-show. So they haven't done it all. Both those guys have to play well on the same night. Role players make their share of threes.

And if you had to clean up a couple of things, you can't turn a ball over 23 times against this team, and you can't give up 19 offensive rebounds. Oklahoma City is too good. It's really a miracle that Minnesota was in this game when you look at all of that laid out in front of you, but they had a chance to win it. So can they clean up that much in a road game in OKC?

That's going to be tough. To follow up quickly. Wouldn't you want to run a double team at SGA at some point, given what OKC's defense is doing to Amman? Wouldn't you want to try the same thing with SGA? I said it last night on our alt-cast. That, and I also think when he's off the floor and Jalen Williams becomes the primary guy,

you need to have the exact same rules on Jalen Williams when Shea Gilgis Alexander's on the bench and they don't. They treat him differently in some way. Like more casually, he took over that game and then Oklahoma City made a bunch of shots later because those two guys were in rhythm. Role players now are more relaxed when that happens. But I agree with you.

You're going to have to come up with some different looks against both of those guys. There's a reason they won 68 games. None of this stuff is easy here. Great to have you this one. Thank you. Thank you. Let's take one last break. Still to come, Joey Bosa, just joined the bills.

And he's already injured. Of course he's injured. You got into walking out of the car. OTAs. And will the stars even up things with the Oilers tonight? We've never had a guest sit with us on this set. Well, when it was over there. Okay, over there, but we're not over there.

Now, this is great. The viewer doesn't know whether we're here or here. I just told the viewer we ever had this. Maybe commemorated in some way. A little plaque or something. A plaque. Yeah, we'll have something. Happy time.

People. Happy 28th birthday, Daniel Jones. The Giants draft of Jones. Jones out of Duke with a sixth overall pick in 2019. Jones started a quarterback early on and was productive as a rookie, completing 61.9% of his passes with 24 touchdowns, 12 interceptions.

But Jones never really blossomed into the star the Giants hoped for. His overall record as a starter was 24, 44 and 1. Two thirds of the way through this past season, Jones was benched and asked for and received his release, catching on with the Vikings for a cup of coffee. Now Jones is in Indianapolis with a chance to compete starting job with another high draft choice disappointment Anthony Richardson.

Jones has been thrown out of a couple of places, yet his numbers, individual numbers, are nearly identical to those of Trevor Lawrence, who was still considered a franchise quarterback in Jacksonville. And who you loved more at Clemson than anybody ever. I did. Yes. Not so happy anniversary, Ruben Rivera, on this day 22 years ago, the San Francisco outfielder was a subject of what Giants broadcaster John Miller believed was, quote, the worst base

running in the history of the game. Rivera entered the game as a pinch runner in the bottom of the ninth of the two-two tie. Rivera tried to go from first at third on a fly ball to deep right center. But he retreated to second twice, once because he thought the ball was caught, and a second time

because he missed second base on his way to third. Ultimately, Rivera was thrown out at home. The Giants released him a few days later. On a positive note, Rivera was on the 1996 World Champion Yankees. He didn't just go back to second twice. He tried to go back to first base and that play happens in the Little League a hundred times a summer. In one Little

League, that's what you see, not in the big so much. Happy trails to Joey Bosa already. The terrific but oft-injured pass rushers signed this offseason with the Bills who announced today that he will likely be out until training camp after pulling a calf. Boas's teammate running back James Cook was a no-show to today's voluntary OTAs. Cook wants a new deal after rushing for a thousand plus yards and making pro bowls in back-to-back seasons and scoring 18 touchdowns last year. It's a lot. It's a lot. The Falcons coach Rahim Morris said Kirk Cousins was absent from that team's voluntary OTAs.

I know Cousin says a no trade, but he'll get, he's got to acquiesce. He's got, he needs to go. And there are several places that can use them. I would so much rather have Kirk Cousins at this stage than Aaron Rogers at this stage. I think, by the way, the bill's running back ought to get a new deal. He should get it. That's very productive. Go to the Big Finns.

Let's do it. Novak Jokovic. Beat your boy, McKenzie McDonnell in straight sets in his first round match at the French Open. Is that significant? Well, maybe playing and winning in Geneva last week was significant. For the Joker, Texas coach Steve Sarkisian, wondered if we'll ever see another unbeaten national champion.

What do you think? I think we were within the next two to three years. Wow. Why do you think we wouldn't? So many games. I still think we will. The Cubs are on pace to be the first nationally team to average six first runs per game. It's the 1953 Brooklyn Dodgers.

Will he keep that up? It's cold in Chicago still. It's in the 50s, even though we're approaching June. It's going to get hot at Wrigley. Maybe they can keep it up. Need to. Alex Condon will withdraw from the NBA draft and return to Florida.

Is that significant? Okay. It's significant if Florida's going to have a shot to repeat. Like the last group of Florida, which did repeat, right? It's a big deal. It is. It is. Last one, Stars and Oilers, Game 4 tonight.

Who you got? Oilers score a lot of goals at home. Connor McDavid seems hot now. I'm going to stay with the Oilers so you know I'm rooting for. You've been picking them all year. I have who you want. Last year, too. We're out of time.

We're trying to do better the next time. I'm Tony Cornynard. I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads. Do you know who Pete Crowe Armstrong is? Do you know? He's a Cubs player. MVP.

Right now. Really? MVP. A head of Otonic. Yeah. Really? No. Oh, yeah.

Who score where runs? Dodgers are Cubs. No, no, no, no. No, no, no.