PTI - Is it OVER for the Knicks?

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the NBA Playoffs, NHL Playoffs, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Plus, Brian Windhorst joins the show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption. but I'm Michael O'Antonia new study says strength training is the best way to combat aging. I'm Tony Kornheiser and it's easy.

You can use your spare Emmys. 98, 99, 100, 1001, 1002, 103. Much better if we had four instead of three because then we could do simultaneous curls. Yeah. Bicep curls. But we got three. We got three, right? And that's three more than a lot of people. Okay?

We got three. Yeah. Welcome to PT. boys and girls in today's episode the Oilers win again. Terry Bradshaw shares thoughts on Aaron Rodgers in the Steelers and Brian Windhorst joins us for five good

minutes but we begin today with Tyrese Halliburton getting a triple double of 32 points, 12 rebounds and 15 assists to lead Indiana past the next 130 to 121 to take a 3 to 1 lead in this series. Last night the Pacers became the first home team

to win in this series I believe I had that Wilburne. You did. You did. How does last The line's result field to you. Decisive, Tony. It felt like Calliburton threw a perfecto. He went straight Magic Johnson. He went to a place to get to lead his team. And for whatever reason, I thought he overreacted

when he blamed himself for the loss in game three. He just walked right out there, live time, and said, I wasn't good enough. He was good enough last night. Whether it was finding guys who were wide open, pushing the pace against a. tired Knicks team. I don't want to hear the Knicks aren't tired. They're beat up tired. You know, a person that we know and respect, who's the lifer in the NBA, said to me yesterday,

there's no more elegant basketball. Everybody's hurt and bruised and exhausted. And if you can find a player who can take advantage of that in the other team and its vulnerabilities, you got an advantage. Well, guess what? Halliburton is that guy. And I'm concentrating on him, even though there were other players on Indiana. Kneesmith. I mean, seriously. I mean, Mathrin. I mean, the other day, I was teasing you because Mathron, who knows Matherin, unless you follow the NBA, nobody.

People know him now. He had 20 points last night in about 12 minutes. So, they all got it done in an ensemble way, and that's where they're better than the Knicks. But Halliburton. I'm going to give Legler credit for what he said yesterday. He said, when Neesmith is not on Jalen Brunson.

Jalen Brunson is great, but he can shut him down, which is what happened, and he talked about Matherin. He said, this would be a game for Matherin. So we give and I'm going to go to something that I've gone to before on this show recently. And that is that survey in the athletic about a month ago in which NBA players said that the most overrated player in the league is Tyrese Halliburton. Now, maybe they dislike him personally or maybe they were annoyed that he was on the Olympic team and they were not.

But the people who said he is the most overrated player in the league need to step up and be accountable because they are dupes. we have seen Halliburton, I believe he's the best player in the playoffs so far. I believe he's better than Brunson, better than Gilgis Alexander, better than Ant Man, so far in these playoffs. We have seen him

on multiple times, hit shots have beat teams. Yes. Did it to Milwaukee, did it to Cleveland. Every series. The night he had the tying shot in New York. Like, he has done this, right? I mean, he had a tremendous triple double last night, not just the numbers in the lead. He had no turnovers.

So he has no turnovers. The Knicks has a team have seven. He has 15 turnovers. He has 15 assists. The Knicks as a team have 17 assists. And Mike, he is on the cusp of leading a number four seed to the NBA finals. So I watched last night, and I remember this because the score at the end of the first quarter was 4335, which is a lot of scoring. And I thought every time that Halliburton came down the field, down the court, and every time that Brunson did that, they were making shots.

but Hallibird was also finding guys at the rim and finding guys open for threes. And I didn't think the Knicks were playing any defense. And the Knicks were five tomorrow night in New York City. Madison Square Garden your favorite building. Of course. Of course they can. They can extend it, but you don't think they can win it.

I do not. We move to hockey where last night Edmonton beat Dallas four to one. This was Edmonton's third straight win over Dallas and it gave the Oilers a three-to-one lead in this series. Both Connor McDavid and Ryan Newgin Hopkins had two assists. Well, but the stars are still alive, but does it feel to you like they're still in it? In it, yeah.

I mean, I'm doing this like you did the Knicks just now. You're playing game five in Dallas. And they would have five and seven, but of course you're going to win game five and then think about going on the road. Before you think about going back to Edmonton, they played Edmonton pretty darn even last night. And so, yeah, they needed that game

to change the tenor of this series. But playing this game at home where Dallas has been a good home ice team. It's seven and two in the playoffs at home. Yeah. Can they extend this series and then you see what happens? The problem is Edmonton has been really good at home and explosive. They held them down last night.

People as remember that late goal was empty net. Empty net. But that, Tony, I don't think Dallas is out of it, though I think that Edmonton is in control of it. Okay. So I find it very interesting. And by the way, we're talking about Zat Hyman in a second. He's out.

Yeah. He had surgery today. That's out for the rest of the play. Yeah. And that is a big deal. It hurts Evans. Yeah. I find it very interesting that the four conference final series we're talking about in the NBA and the NHL are all right now three to one.

I know you very well. I know you like long tight series. I know you want game seven. I know when I ask you to pick who's going to win, you go, oh, I can't pick. Oh, it's too close. I can't pick. It's a long series. But not every series goes seven.

No. And not every series is close. The NHL series don't appear to be close at all. You asked me this a little while ago. I believe that really the only series that could go to six games is New York and Indiana, of the four series that I'm talking about. And I think you have to look at Edmonton in this regard. Edmonton has outscored Dallas in the last three games, I believe, 13 to 2.

Edmonton has won 13 of their last 15 games. I know what you're saying about home ice. I know what you're saying that. The last time they were on that home ice, Edmonton won three nothing. So, I mean, honestly, I'm going to be very. surprised if Dallas go back to this for a second. Hyman, not only is their big goal scorer the last... Tough guy. Two years. He's a tough. Tough guy.

I know. I know. So you're missing a presence and someone who's effective when it comes to goal scoring, and he's out. He's out. There's one other thing. The reason Edmonton lost game one was because they couldn't kill off penalties. Remember three in a row? Yes. Yes. Since then, they've killed off seven out of eight. They've gotten better. They've got better. Better now. They're better to be. Let's move now to Quarterback on quarterback crime.

Hall of Fame Pittsburgh Steeler Terry Bradshaw, who we love on this show. Just called the Steelers' interest in Aaron Rogers a joke. Bradshaw told 103.7 the buzz in Arkansas, quote, what are you going to do? Bring him in for one year? Are you kidding me? That guy needs to stay in California,

go somewhere and chew on bark and whisper to the gods out there. Close quote. Love that. Tone. You agree with Bradshaw's criticism of the Steelers? This is amazing. This is utterly amazing.

Terry Bradshaw won four Super Bowls in Pittsburgh. He is one of the most beloved Steelers of all time. He may be the most beloved because he's been on television for 40 years. He's on a Fox show for more than 30 years, right? Every single Sunday. And he just said of Aaron Rogers who won a Super Bowl himself, of Aaron Rogers, who's a dead, solid lock to be in the Hall of Fame. name with Terry Bradshaw. He just said he could stay in California and chew on bark.

It's great. Okay, so that's a wow. I just assume they were tight. Now, I will get to the question. Are the Steelers making a mistake in pursuing Aaron Rogers? I'm going to tell you no. Yeah, I'm going to tell you no. And this is why. I understand that Aaron Rogers is a prima donna. I understand he puts his own interest above everybody else's. I understand he's an egomaniac. I like him personally, but I understand all these things. But the question then becomes, do you want Aaron Rogers or do you want Mason Rudolph? And I watched the Jets a little bit last year. Well, I think so. I thought Aaron Rogers could still throw it. So I would say, okay, for one year.

And the reason I would say for one year, it's this year, Mike. It's not five years from now. It's this year, and I would do it. And their defense appears, they appear to have the other elements. I would do it, even though they let Pickens go. But they appear to have the other elements. No, no, no, no. Terry Breschaw is on the money.

At this point, Aaron Rod, have you paid attention to the last three years? Aaron Rogers has been nothing for the last three years. He appears on television more than we do. And he comes on and he does itself. That's why Terry Bradshaw's, look, go eat bark is so great. Go take ayahuasca.

That's one of the greatest quotes I remember heard. The notion that the Steelers, the picture of stability. And Mike Tomlin, they don't do anything. out of character. This is beyond out of character. This looks, let me say this, let me be very plain about this. This looks dumb as hell. It looks embarrassingly stupid for the Pittsburgh Steelers and all they stand for and their consistency of

behavior to just lay out in the highway for Aaron Rogers, who hasn't done Jack for three years. So you're saying we have a difference of opinion? Yeah, we do. Is that what you're saying? Let's take a break. Which camera? Which camera? That camera. Coming up, why did Julius Ray, you got to tell me, why did Julius Randall struggle so much in Minnesota's latest loss? I'm not here that often. We'll ask Brian Winhorse. We'll also ask him how people around the game are looking at the long-term potential of this Thunder team.

And we might ask him about Aaron Rogers. You're not high on Aaron, are you? Not anymore. No. No. He's a figment of the imagination of... Pardon the interruption is brought to you by the UPS store. The Timberwolves and the Thunder play game five tonight in Oklahoma City, which is where we find our great friend ESPN senior writer and the host of the Hoop Collective podcast.

Mr. Brian Windorce. We'll start with this. Before the series began, Wilbon of course said Julius Randall is the X factor from Minnesota. I did. Well, here's the question. Julius Randall went one for seven, scored just five points in the Timberwolves lost the other night. What's happening here? Sounds like Wilbon was right.

You know, what happened in the last series against the Warriors, Randall was an awesome playmate. I was saying he was reminded me a LeBron. He averaged 25, 7 and 7. In this series, he's only averaging like three and a half assists a game. And that difference is huge because what's been going on is the thunder have been camping down on Ant. He's needed an outlet to have more playmaking and Randall hasn't been able to deliver. The five turnovers were a big issue, especially when he's not able to make a difference as a playmaker. So Randall definitely needs to step up tonight.

Not necessarily in points. he needs to step up in playmaking because it's too easy to defend him when he's not. All right, if we're talking about stepping up in Minnesota, we've got to go to the Ant Man, Anthony Edwards. And Brian, the Thunder went straight bad boy pistons, Jordan rules on Ant Man the other night, double teaming him repeatedly.

What, if anything, can Ant and the staff and his teammates do to counter this tonight? Well, I think a key will be don't have him with the ball, the top of the key attacking straight onto the defense. Move him away from the center of the court so that he's not easy to set up against. But the thunder are very good. Like part of what's going on here is the thunder have decided no matter what happens. They're going to trap him in the paint and they're not going to let him beat them.

When you have a great defensive team with depth and size, they can bat guys up that can, you know, give, you know, great fundamental defense. It's going to be hard. The answer is not just to have Ant fire the ball into the crowd. But I do expect some wrinkles, especially getting him coming from off the ball. So the Thunder can't have all five sets of eyes with him in front of them. They made it too easy. The other thing is, Ant played with desperation in game three. He would admit, even if he doesn't think he struggled,

he would admit he didn't play with desperation in Game 4. I expect to see more of that tonight in Game 5. Well, he better. Or the Thunder will be headed to the NBA finals, which they may anyway. Brian, you talk to people around the league every day. how are folks in general seeing the thunder when we look forward with that team if they win at this age the next, I don't know,

five to seven years? Well, the people would whisper about the thunder was that their big three wasn't good enough. They didn't think that Jalen Williams was a true number two. They didn't necessarily think that Chet Holmgren was built enough to be a difference-making player when it really mattered. Everybody respects Shea.

That's not an issue. But they didn't believe in that top-end talent. Well, that's been blown apart in this postseason, especially Jalen Williams, who had a huge shot in game five of the series against Denver last round. And that game against Denver where they were down on this court by nine going into the fourth quarter, Shea Brought brings them back. Jalen Williams brings them home. That may end up being the most important game of the postseason. We'll see whether that actually happens. But the fact that these three top guys potentially could be good enough to win a title, and then they're backloaded with all these draft picks and all of these guys that they can maneuver, it can be pretty.

frightening for whether this team could go going forward. You see them, then. If they win the championship this year, you don't see, as with other teams, a brief window opening. You see a long-term potential here with this team, yes? So I'm really loathe to bring this up, not to get rebuked by Wilbon. But if you remember the Bulls in the 90s, okay, he's going to let me go. The team that Jordan and Pippen won with in the second three, Pete, was completely different. They retrofitted the entire team around them. In this era, the apron era, which I know is boring

to talk about the aprons, but in the apron era, the hard thing to do is to build around star players. In fact, teams are going to have to start breaking off big threes to big twos to try to build around. These thunder are so equipped with current players and then the ability to replace them in the next three to five years with all the draft picks that they have and the flexibility that they have, that's what's scary.

What will be the defining moment is whether this big three are good enough to win multiple titles, like we ended up seeing with those Bulls teams. We don't know the answer to that yet. I will get you out of here on this and we'll switch to the other series. The Pacers can close out the Knicks tomorrow night. What, if anything, has surprised you about how this series has played out? I'm not really surprised by it. I'm surprised that the Knicks let Game 1 get away,

because the truth is there's not much separation between these teams, okay? I know that Halliburton was unbelievable in game four. This series really should be two-two. Now look, the Pacers won at Fair and Square. The Knicks helped them out in game one. This series should be two-two. The big problem for the Knicks going forward, Towns and Brunson defensively are a bad matchup against the Pacers.

The Pacers just stressed them out. One of the big reasons is that Ogi Annanobi, who probably should be the guy guarding Halliburton, can't guard Halliburton because you take him off Seacum. In the previous rounds, the matchups worked a little clean. And then you have Brunson and Towns. They're minus 24 on the court together in this round. These are two all-MBA players.

You need them to be plus 24, not minus 24. And it's happened because the Pacers attack them on defense. That's a medium-term problem that goes beyond just this series. Brian, thank you so much. Thanks so much, Brian. Appreciate you. Take care, guys. Let's take one last break.

Still to come, some unexpected thoughts from the pitcher who hit Bryce Harper last night. And the PGA tour makes some changes. to his championship. Brian's analogy with the Bulls was right on the money. Right on. It was so different because he had Rodman replacing Horace Grant on the second 3P team, and it was just very, very different. Steve Kerr, not John Paxson.

Right. Pardon the Interruption is brought to you by Real Steel. Find yours at steel.com. Happy time, people. Happy 61st birthday, Dwayne Ward. No, not Dwayne Wade. Dwayne Ward. He was the reliever most noted for his work on the Toronto Blue Jays from 1986 through 1995 when Toronto acquired him in a trade from Atlanta. He still has the second most

saves in the history of that franchise. Ward made the All-Star game in 1993 when he led the American League in saves with 45. He was on the Blue Jays teams that won the World Series back-to-back in 1992 and 93. In those World Series, Ward made eight appearances, pitched eight He had a 193 ERA. He was 3-0, two saves, 13 strikeouts, one wall. Ward had 121 career saves. Why don't we know more about that stretch of time when he was clearly brilliant at the important time of the year?

The reason I think is because career-wise, he's like a hundred and twenty-ninth in saves. The leader, that's how we judge. The leader has over 600. If you have 121, the hammer of God, it's not feeding the bulldog. Of course the hammer. Happy anniversary, Clay Thompson.

On this day, nine years ago, the other Splash Brother dropped 41 points, including a then-NBA playoff record 11-3s to lead the Warriors to a comeback, 108-101, Game 6 Western Conference final win in Oklahoma City, evening that series at 3-3. Oklahoma City was up 3-1 in the series, and their collapse led Kevin Durant to join Golden State that summer. Durant was in Golden State with Thompson, Steph Curry, Draymond Green for a couple of titles before leaving first for Brooklyn, and then, for Phoenix and now for who knows where as he continues to chase titles without really coming close. He's going to get traded again this summer probably in a couple of weeks. My list, short list of most underrated players of all time. Scotty Pippen, Clay Thompson. They're both as great as they are, but they're still underappreciated. Because they played with people better. Okay. Right in the shadow of people better. Happy Trails, Bryce Harper. The Philly Star was forced

to leave last night's game against the Braves in the first inning after taking a fastball off his surgically repaired right out. Oh! X-rays were negative. Spencer Strider, through the pitch, said he wasn't trying to hit Harper, adding, quote, I'm not a complete sociopath, so I have some empathy.

I just assumed he had a guard on and was just pissed that I hit him. Saw him in pain. That was tough. I'm definitely relieved he's okay. He's one of the best players this century. He needs to be on the field, unquote. Why don't you hate Bryce Harper more? He left your beloved nationals.

Yep. He went to a division rival. Now, granted, he hasn't won, and you did. But Harper, he leaves like that? No, everybody hated him for leaving and staying close like that. Down the street. But the Nats won the World Series after he left, and he hasn't won one yet. So I don't begrudge him as much as some.

He is a great player. He's a great player. Yes. He's a two-time MVP. You ready to go to the Big Finner? Let's do it. After a Cubs walk off last time, it's made you happy. The Rockies have now lost 21 consecutive series,

the most in MLB history, your thoughts. Very nervous last night in the 11th. We had to go that long to meet the Rockies. I need the Rockies to lose again tonight. SEC coaches are intrigued by a college playoff field of five conference champs and 11 at-larges. You okay with that? It's weighted towards the SEC in the Big Ten. It's a chance that they could get almost every at-large bid.

All I really care about, do we get the best team at the end? And I think we will. The PGA Tour has eliminated the starting strokes form out of the Tour championship, which I hate it. I know you do. Is this okay with you? I don't care that much about the tent. There's something kind of cool and funky about it. It's weird. It should be winner take all. Well, and now apparently it is. That's good. But I was okay with the best 30. That's good. Take it to leave. Astro starter, Ronell Blanco, will have Tommy

John out for the season. That's significant. It's 13 and 6 last year with a 280 ERA. Yeah. This is a plague among pictures. It's a total plague. Last one. Panthers Hurricanes, game five tonight. Does Carolina get it to a game six? I'm accurately said. I like to see long, tense, dramatic series. I know. This, not one of them. No.

The Panthers are going to be out tonight to make this open. How about Spencer Strider saying I'm not a complete Sotheaphy? What percentage is he? We're out of time. We're trying to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornhives. And I'm Mike Lilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads.