PTI - Jrue Holiday traded to the Trail Blazers

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the latest NBA trades, Haliburton, and Big Dumper. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Louisbon. We're in my favorite color today, Tony. Got a little purple off.

I'm Tony Kornheiser, and I am looking suave and mall. I got to tell you this story. I'm out here in Delaware. I'm looking for her jacket. I go to the back of the closet. There's a suit bag. I open a suit bag. This is in.

It's not a suit. It's just a jacket. I don't remember buying it. I don't know when I got it. When I got it, I don't know whose it is. I don't know. Pastel, baby. I decided I'd wear it.

Well, I had a tie that I knew. Yeah, the tie would bring it all together, so I went with it. We'll see how it works out. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, Tyrese Halliburton reflects, big dumps, and Brian Windhorst joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with trade activity in the NBA. The Pelicans just sent C.J. McCollum to the Wizards for Jordan Fool.

This follows the news that the Boston Celtics are trading starting guard, Drew Holiday, to the Portland Trailblazers for starting guard, Anthony Simons. What's more, it is being reported that the Celtics are open to trading other players, including Christopps Porzingis. Wilbon, where do you want to start?

Well, you got to start with Jew Holiday, a two-time champion, Tony, with Milwaukee and Boston, and Jew Holiday's been a terrific player for a long time. 17 years in the league. But you mentioned what Boston's doing. Boston's had an ownership change. And the new owners are not going to necessarily be committed to paying two players $600 million.

That would be Tateman Brown. And then a lot of other guys, a lot of money for a team that's been a championship contender. So that payroll is going to go down, second apron and all the things you and I are not going to get into the weeds on. So they traded away Drew Holiday. But I thought to Celtics did a great job in getting Simon's a young player who can fill it up. And who's a pretty good three-point shooter. And, you know, you got younger. how cheaper, you're going to save $40 million on your tax bill.

The Celtics always seem to, whether we're talking about, you know, red our back, going back, make the right move at the right time. Seems like a good move. And if you're going to be the Wizards, and I know you're not really thrilled with what the Wizards do, but if you can bring C.J. McCollum in to be the adult in the room, and a lot of people in the league like what the Wizards are doing and the three young players they brought in, you bring that guy in like you put in Chris Paul and San Antonio, you bring a smart, tough, disciplined veteran player to help mentor.

So, you know, these moves are interesting moves. One will show up right away. One may take years. I'm not going to track over anything you said. I agree with most of what you said. It's a very good trade for the Celtics. Brad Stevens makes very good trades. Everybody likes.

Everybody likes Drew Holiday. He did a great job in the Olympics. He did a great job in Boston on the championship. an hour and a half ago, right just last year when they won the championship. He's 35 years old. He's entering his 17th season. They're getting a guy who averaged 19 points last year. You don't have to worry about ball handling even without holiday

because White and Brown and Pritchard, they all handle the ball. And you're getting a guy who's 26. You just traded 35 for 26 and 35 for 26 with an expiring contract. That's wonderful. I'm a little bit more uneasy and nuanced about the possibility of Porzingis going because Porzingis, I love him when he's healthy, but he's never healthy. He's Joelle M. B. And he has a mysterious illness. So you don't know what his durability will be if and when he comes back. I'll get to the Wizards briefly. Yeah, you think more of them than I

think of them. They're on a youth movement. They've drafted, I don't know, 65 people in the last four days, it seems. And some of them might work out down the road. But they're also bringing in old people now. They're bringing in McCollum. They brought in Marcus Smart. They brought in Chris Middleton. It seems to me that they are trying to win the 2015 NBA championship

and I don't think they know what they're doing. I don't, that's just me. Jordan Poole of course they were going to trade him. He's always traded for one bad team to another bad team. I'd rather have C.J. McCauley. For however long. For however long. Any day of the week in my locker room for the young players.

That's a no-brainer. 100% of time. I'm just saying I don't think the Wizards have a long-term plan for all these old guys. I don't. Okay. All right. Let's move to the aftermath of Tyrese Halliburton's torn Achilles. The Pacer Star posted that he did not regret playing with his calf strain saying, quote,

I do it again and again after that to fight for this city and my brothers for the chance to do something special, close quote. He added, again, quote, people tell me I'm going to come back stronger. What a cliche, LOL. This bleep sucks, but I will do everything in my power to get back right, close quote. Tony, how would Halliburton's comments sound to you if you were any part of Pacers Nation? Well, let me just say that if I was a fan of the Indiana Pacers, first of all, I would be proud. I would be proud that this man put his career on the line to play in a game seven and won a championship for my town. And I would be proud of all the nice things that he has said about Indianapolis.

And I would not be angry. that he's going to be out all next year and that the team is greatly diminished because he's going to be out all next year. I wouldn't have said what he did was selfish and I would like to think that I would have done the same thing if I were in his shoes. But I'm not a Pacer's fan

and I don't live in Indiana. And so it was with great interest today that I watched a bunch of former athletes, basketball players and football players on morning television shows, line up to get in locked up, you know, and just say how great Halliburton was. and to say, I would do the same thing.

You know, they praised him, and they said, I would do the same thing, and I get that. But nobody talked about the actual cost of what happened here, not the theoretical cost, the actual cost. He's out. He's going to be gone probably the whole year. And this is not a bone that broke

that you know with 100% certainty is going to heal. No, that's not necessarily true. You don't know how he'll be when he gets back. And so while I applaud what he did, if I were a Pacer's fan, if you come to me next February, when my team is under 500, maybe I don't feel as benevolent about the thing.

I am not only not a Pacer's fan, and not part of the Pacer's nation. I grew up in the state next door, and my tendency is to hate everything in Indiana. And let me tell you this, when I read, before I read Halliburton's explanation, his, this wonderful letter to everybody involved, he was already rising up my favorite player list.

And now he's at the damn top of it, okay? Because this is what you do. Sports is where it's risk. It's always risk when you go out there. And so I don't care. Yes, I'm in lockstep. This kid went out there to try to win a championship. And anybody who wants to criticize that

needs to walk the hell out the side door. I don't want to hear from them. Mike, nobody's Trump. Nobody's criticized it. No, nobody is critical. criticizing him, and I'm not criticizing him. I hope to do the same thing. But I am saying there is an actual cost that you will feel all of next year, right?

You'll steal it. Yes, there's a cost for anything. He went out there knowing this could happen. That's why he slammed the floors many times. He knew it could happen. He hoped it didn't. He's playing for a title. Let me ask you this.

How many titles the place has got? How many banners they got hanging up there? None. They got three in the ABA and none in the NBA. If it's a game seven, you do it. If it's a game two or three, I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe not.

I love them. I don't know. It's my favorite player. Favorite player in the league. She's not the most overrated. The playoffs proved that. Let's go back to Cal Raleigh, who we talked about yesterday. Big Dumpur hit another bomb last night.

That's his fourth straight game with a homer and his 32nd homer of the season. That puts him four clear of out. Aaron Judge. Now, everybody expects Aaron Judge to be the MVP again. Wilbon, would you like to make the case for Rawley over Judge? Yeah, tone, it's real short. Catcher. It's the most difficult position in baseball. The most difficult, the most demanding. Often, all you got to do is look at the number of former catchers in dugouts as managers. And you know these are, these guys are more than just tough wearing what used to be called. People don't even know anymore. Tools of ignorance, just the opposite, tools of intelligence because the smartest guys on the field are often the

catchers. They control everything, every single pitch of a game. People now pitch barely, you know, four or five innings, but catchers are out there the whole time. And this guy's hitting. He's in a category. That's why I said yesterday. I used Yogi Berra and Roy Campanella. Those were more. multiple-time MVP's and arguably the greatest catchers, Josh Gibson, of all time in Major League Baseball. This guy is doing something that puts him above Aaron, Judge, to me, if you just look at his hitting. But we're not going to just look at his hitting, his power numbers, his home runs, and his runs. He controls a game. He's a catcher. There's honor in that that goes beyond any position in baseball. And I agree with everything you said, but I will point something out. It's very hard

for a catcher to win the MVP. Well, maybe it's not as hard as it is rare. Okay? In the century we're living in now, only two guys. Buster Posey and Joe Mower are catchers that won the MVP. You have to go back, Mike, to 1976 to get two more. Pudge Rod Regas won it in the 90s, but Thurman Munson won it in 1976. If my math is correct, that's 49 years. And everybody's going to say, whoa, what about Johnny Bench? Johnny Bench won the MVP in 1972. That's 53 years. Why does this happen? Because catcher is not a glamour position, it's a utilitarian position, and it's hard, right? You can't play it every day. You just cannot physically do it. If a team gets a catcher they like, they put that catcher back there for 15 years, and they don't say a word about it to anyone because they're so

happy. Now, catching right now, the typical batting average for a catcher is 239. That is the lowest average on any position on the team. Raleigh's hitting 40 points above that. And he's a switch hitter. He's got more home runs than Aaron Judge. He's got more RBI than Aaron Judge. He feels his position better than Aaron Judge. He was the platinum glove last year. He was the best defensive player at 80 position in the league.

So he was T.J. Watt. So he was Miles Garrett. Mike, if he played today in New York or L.A., he'd be the face of the league today, above Otani and above Judge, just for today because of what he's done this year. Let's take a break. Coming up, how are the rash of Achilles injuries affecting the NBA? We're going to ask Brian Windhorst.

We're also asking what he expects from the Lakers' new owner. Yeah, he's so valuable. Don't yell at me about Tyrese Halliburton. No, I'm on your side. I'm yelling at anybody else. Let's dig back into the NBA with our great friend ESPN senior NBA writer and the host of the Hoop Collective podcast, Mr. Brian Windhorst. I go to the glasses. We saw three Achilles tears in the postseason. Tyresean Halliburton, Jason Tatum, Damian Lillard, they all had them. Are you seeing any bigger picture impact from those things?

Yeah, we're seeing a crazy dichotomy developing between what I can only call an arms race in the Western Conference and teams in the Eastern Conference with these terrible injuries, potentially downgrading their rosters to wait for their guys to get healthy. So we just saw a trade today where Drew Holiday goes to Portland. Portland, which is for sale, by the way, takes on a 35-year-old, a two-time champion, but a 35-year-old with a $100 million contract with the hopes of getting to 10th, getting to 9th. It was a crazy move for a team that was celebrating going 25 and 25 in the second half of the season. And so what I'm seeing is in the East, Boston is pulling money off of their roster. because they can't justify a four or $500 million payroll when Jason Tatum's probably not going to be able to play.

I've got Milwaukee evaluating what they're going to do with their seven free agents, considering Dame Lillard may miss the majority, if not all of next season. And Indiana was all set to go into the tax for the first time in 20 years. And now I don't know if they're going to do that with Tyrese Halliburton going to probably miss all of next season,

while teams are beating each over the head to crawl into the plane in the Western Conference. And I think this is potentially only going to get more exacerbated over the next couple of weeks in the transaction season. Wow. All right. As long as we're talking about movement, Brian, let's talk about Kevin Durant leaving Phoenix to go be traded through the rockets. Because out here in the desert, we're very underwhelmed by what the sun's got in return. But what strikes you about the KD to Houston move?

Well, player empowerment is live and well because Kevin Durant, basically, basically blocked a trade to have the Warriors trade for him in February, and he blocked a trade for the Timberwolves to trade for him about, you know, seven to ten days ago. I think both of those deals would have or could have gone down had Durant not stepped in and said, I don't want to go there. So with one year left on his contract, he was able to force his way right to a spot where he wanted, which was Houston. And the thing that I think is remarkable about this is we're looking at a situation where Durant is, you know, handpicking his team. And Phoenix paid a premium to get him in a closed market.

When he handpicked Phoenix, they paid four first-round picks and three swaps and two players. And then the market was closed up by Duran again because he wanted to direct himself again. And then they got a small price. So they paid a premium to get him in a closed market. And they sold them at a low price in a closed market. And they lost on both ends of the deal. Not ideal. All right.

The movement in Los Angeles doesn't involve players yet. it involves, as you know, ownership. What are you expecting out of this change and the new owners of the Los Angeles Lakers? So I want to be respectful of the bus family because they have been incredible stewards of this iconic brand, and they have always treated stars very well. But compared to their fellow teams, they are a generation behind. They are not modernized in the way they operate their teams and the way they do their staffs, the way their systems are. And I, based on what happened with the Dodgers after Mark Walter and his partners bought the team, this team is going to be modernized. And I would say that if I was a rival team, I would be

thrilled what this sale did for the value of my franchise and not thrilled that the Lakers are going to have the brand and the backing that they haven't enjoyed in a long time. We will get you out of here on this. What? What is going on with the Knicks never-ending search for a new head coach? Well, in this case, I'm just going to list some facts, okay? The Knicks are not in a hurry. This is a choice, okay? We have several of their coaches that they wanted to interview from other teams that have gotten contract extensions.

Well, EMA Udoka got one for sure. Billy Donovan is in the process of getting one. Jason Kidd has not gotten a contract extension. Jason Kidd's top assistant, Sean Sweeney, has left to go to San Antonio. Another one of Jason Kidd's top assistants, Scott Shamm God, might be leaving. Those are facts. The Knicks are dragging their feet. I assume it's with a purpose.

So let's just watch how things play out. They definitely could still hire some of these guys who are unemployed, but maybe they're taking their time for a reason. Well, if that reason has anything to do with Jason Ked, you heard of here first. Thank you, Brian. One plus one. One, plus one. Thank you, Brian.

Let's take one last break, but still to come. Leonel Messi and into Miami do something once thought improbable. And the Mavs reportedly lock up a piece on the eve of the draft that should land them Cooper Flack. Jason Kidd, Tony. I still don't know why the expired Fidivodon. Jason Kitt. I still don't know why they fired him. I've always believed that Jason Kidd's going to wind up coaching the Knicks and not the Maver's.

That's just what I believe. Happy time, people. Happy 21st birthday, Reed Shepard. It's possible. Shepard is on the verge of more playing time in Houston now that Jalen Green is gone in the Kevin Durant trade. Certainly Shepard's rookie year was not what people expected when Shepard was drafted third overall after one and done at Kentucky. Shepard got only 12 minutes a game, averaged only 4.4 points,

and this was surprising because a poll of NBA executives and scouts that suggested Shepard would be a candidate for rookie of the year. Maybe I Meo Doca will give him more time next season. If I were a guard in Houston, I'd give the ball to Kevin Durant and I would get out of his way.

No, they're going to need help from him, Tony. But the slurping of this kid coming out of that one year of college seemed preposterous to me and four minutes a game is a prop, probably about the right way to have gone his rookie year. Happy anniversary, Steve Hamilton. This is posthumous, but on this day, 55 years ago,

Hamilton threw his Ephes pitch, known as the Folly Floater, to Cleveland's Tony Horton, who fouled it off. Horton asked Hamilton for the pitch again and fouled out to catch a Thurman Monson prompting Horton to toss his bat and helmet and crawl back to the dugout on all fours. In addition to his 12 seasons in the May, Hamilton at 6-6 played two seasons in the NBA. Hamilton and pitcher Gene Conley are the only two

to have played in a World Series and an NBA Finals. Hamilton for the Yankees and the Minneapolis Lakers and Conley for the Milwaukee Braves and the Celtics. Tony, the rifle man, Chuck Connors, played for the Brooklyn Dodgers and the Celtics, but he didn't make it. He just sort of missed it, even though he was hanging around a couple of championship teams for a minute.

A minute. Yeah. Happy trails to the group stage of the Club World Cup for Inter Miami. Leonel Messi's team advanced to the knockout round of 16 by tying Brazilian club Palmeras 2 to 2 last night. Many had ridiculed Intermiami for even being included in this tournament. Just last month, into Miami's coach said, quote, it's clear that we are not at the level to compete at the Club World Cup,

but we will try to compete in our group, unquote. But five days ago, Messi's team beat FC Porto, the first ever win for a Concaf Club team, over UEFA club team. And now into Miami advances to face Messi's former team PSG, which just won the Champions League. That's exciting.

Even though PSG doesn't have the star power it had recently, you mentioned they won the biggest tournaments in the world. I'm going to watch this, and I'm going to try to call you and convince you to watch it too. Send me a pink shirt, and I'll watch it.

Let's go to the big finish. The Madison reportedly extending Daniel Gafford to the tune of three years and $60 million. Is that a smart move? Yes, put a vet with some size and experience next to your prize. Rookie, you're going to draft. It's a smart move. Diamondback star, Corbyn Carroll, out indefinitely with a chip fracture in his left wrist.

That's a big loss. He's a great player. He's rookie in the year a couple of years ago. Yeah, it's a big loss. The White Sox signed Noah Cindergarde to a minor league deal. Is that significant? It's been a while since he was Noah Cindergarde, but he's only 32. Maybe there's a chance to one of these storybook, late, late, late comeback star at Skouble.

Faces the A's tonight. Justin Verlander returns to the Giants, gets the Marlins more compelling. I would say Verlander because I like Verlander. You know that. Last one, the Cardinals beat your Cubs eight to two last night. How'd that taste? We're still like three and a half ahead, but I didn't like it. I'm worried about our direction lately.

We're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time. And I'm Tony Corriniser. I'm Mike Loban. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads.