PTI - Pablo Torre Breaks Down Kawhi-Gate!!!!

Episode Date: September 19, 2025

Tony Kornheiser and Pablo Torre discuss Pablo's investigation on Kawhi Leonard, Fins vs. Bills, and the AL Wild Card race. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Hard in an interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre. Tony, thank you for having me as your co-host today. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

It's my way of keeping you out of my financial records. Yeah. That's an inside joke, kids. That's inside. It's increasingly outside. It's increasingly outside. Yeah. Ever more outside, but I'm on it.

I'm looking into things. I'm finding out about you. Welcome to PTI. Most of it is lies. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. Will Van Coom break the tape on the week. So here to do his job for him is our great friend and virgining internet folk hero, Mr. Pablo Torre.

Big cheers for Pablo, and we begin today with last night's Buffalo win over Miami 3121. The spread was 11.5. So Miami covered. The game stayed reasonably close all night. They were tied 2121 in the fourth quarter. In battle dolphins, coach Mike McDaniel said afterwards, quote, I refuse to take moral victories, unquote.

Pablo, what does this result say about both teams? Well, I want to start with the Dolphins. This isn't the reason why Mike McDaniel should be on a seat that is increasing in temperature with every passing second. This game was one in which the dolphins, of course, were not favored. It is actually a closer game than the score indicates, which is true. The reason the seat is hot is because he is 3 and 14 against teams with winning records. So it's the larger picture, Tony, that fits into a larger criticism.

And for me, when it comes to the bills, yeah, look, it's the bills in the first three weeks of the season. They do this. They drop 30 points on your head. This is exactly what you expect out of Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills. But McDaniel, to me, that's where the story is. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I mean, the interest in the game from me before the game started was, would Buffalo win by such a margin that the dolphins were going to fire McDaniel? All right, so that was the intrigue.

They did not fire him. I mean, the day is still going on. But the game was close. Nominally, the game was close. Here's where you and I will disagree. I never really thought that the Dolphins could win that game. And I go back to the first quarter, when they took the opening kickoff, and they went all the way down the field and they scored a touchdown, you went, wow.

But then the next two times Buffalo got the ball, they went all the way down the field, and they scored two touchdown. So for me, I could check out at that point. You're 100% right that his record is 3 and 14 against teams with winning records, and that's not good. But if I'm going to fire anybody today, I'm going to fire the defensive coordinator at Miami. They've now given up 97 points in three games. Buffalo was okay, just okay. They didn't have to be good because Miami isn't very good.

The 3 and 14 record we've referenced already. Right. The coach at Buffalo is now 16 and 2 against Miami. Buffalo is now 11 and O in their last 11 division games in Buffalo. I think Miami is cooked. And here's a statistic that is relevant to me. Since the year 2000, 107 teams in the NFL, 117, rather, in the NFL have started out 0 and 3. One has made the playoffs.

So I don't think the Dolphins can make the playoffs. Buffalo, my feeling about Buffalo is that, They are being hurt a little bit by the lack of quality of opposition early in the season. They don't have to extend themselves because they're not playing anybody really good at the moment. They had that Baltimore game. That was terrific. But after that, Pablo, Jets, dolphins, saints, Patriots, Atlanta, Carolina. That feels like 7 and 0 to me without being tested.

No, no, no. I take that at face value. I do want to sort of walk back that criticism to the extent that they don't choose the schedule. It's not college football, as you know, Tony. So they're only doing what's in front of them. The thing, though, and all due respect to your cousin, Maryland, of course, in South Florida, when it comes to Mike McDaniel and all of the news and information they're in, the thing about it is, what if Tua didn't throw that pick?

What if he didn't? You know, like, I want to criticize the micro as much as we acknowledge the macro. There are some things with McDaniel where it's like, hey, Tua does something, and of course it fits into the larger trend. But in this case, the process of how they lost, I mean, look, he doesn't want the moral victory. Here's my advice for Mike McDaniel. Take the moral victory. I don't know if you'll get a real one. I would say that that's probably the one you want to take because it's available to you.

But Tony, we have 14 more NFL games on Sunday, among them, the 2 and 0 Rams at the 2&0. Eagles and the unbeaten Cardinals at the similarly unblemished Niners. So of those games on Sunday, which intrigues you the most? Okay, I'm not sure that I would use the word intrigued by anything on Sunday. I am intrigued by Monday night. I am intrigued by Detroit and Baltimore. I'm intrigued by that. The furthest I'm going to go on Sunday is I'm curious. And I do have a list of the team of the games that I'm curious about. I am curious, for example, about Indianapolis at Tennessee. If Indianapolis wins this game, they're 3-0, and we may have to give Indianapolis and their new quarterback, Daniel Jones, semi-respect at that point. I am curious about Cincinnati at Minnesota because the starting quarterbacks, Joe Burrow and J.J. McCarthy, you're both out.

And now you're down to Jake Browning and Carson Wentz. Can either of them keep their teams alive in a playoff chase? I am curious about Pittsburgh at New England. Is Pittsburgh's defense so awful that New England would, actually be able to beat them because of that happens, Pittsburgh is out as a contender that we ever have to talk about. And I'm kind of sort of curious about Dallas at Chicago only because it would gall will be on so much if the Cowboys would have beat the Bears. The one that I'm serious about, though,

and you might laugh at this, is Kansas City at the Giants. What if the Giants won that game? I don't think that's possible. I think the Giants will devolve into a quarterback mess. I think Russell Wilson won't be as good as he was last. week, I think we'll see Jackson Dart. But if they were to win, Kansas City would be 0 and 3, and we would be writing their obituary. We would. I'm trying to keep score at home as you go through your curiosities. I'm a man of curiosities. I got to try curious, quad curious. You are

pentacurious by the end. You have many, many interests. Five. I was hoping for try. I was hoping for try curious personally. I would say that I am, we're going to play, what's the word here? I am perversely tickled. Perversely tickled by the Bengals and the Vikings. And you got to some of it,

but that's my lead story on a weekend that is, as you describe, short of Monday, you know, it's some stuff. But in the poo-poo platter, there can be one of those just like pieces of chicken where you're like,

is this edible? And then you're like, this kind of tastes good. And I think Jake Browning is that piece. piece of chicken. Jake Browning by the advanced numbers, he's not Joe Burrow. Everybody knows that, but the advanced numbers like him. And I know that... But he had three, he had three picks last week. He had three picks last week. Does that not matter to you? Well, it matters, but I said perversely tickled. I didn't say I am naming my son after Jake Browning. I said I'm perversely

tickled by the setting of Jake Browning filling the shoes of Joe Burrow against, of course, you know, how about Denver and the Chargers? How about Denver the Chargers? Would you be curious about that? Because we might be able to see if the Chargers are as good as we think that. That's the question. That's the question. So speaking of the Advanced Metrics,

no one has been more beloved by the metrics among the nerds than Justin Herbert. Are we seeing it? Are we seeing the hype become real? That's a nice entree. A nicer entree, I'll admit. Before I go to the next story, I just want to acknowledge it. That is the first time in all the years the show has been on television that the words poo-poo platter have been in it, so congratulations on that.

Let's move to the continuing drama of Kauai Leonard, Steve Ballmer, and the Clippers. On some podcast called Pablo Tori finds out, I've never heard of it, there has been reporting that indicates Steve Ballmer may have circumvented the salary cap with Kauai Leonard and a company called Aspiration with ties to the Clippers. NBA Commissioner Adam Silver at first said he'd never heard of aspiration, then he backtracked. He has said the NBA will investigate. Pablo, in what sort of a spot does this Ballmer investigation put Silver? I believe this is the biggest test of Adam Silver's tenure as commissioner.

And I say that knowing that there are other candidates, but he came in with Donald Sterling, that was, in retrospect, an easy call, documentary evidence, a tape in three days, they said, Banned for Life. This, poetically almost book-ending that, Balmer coming in because of that, Balmer now being at the heart of a story, Tony, in which he poured in 118 million. over 18 months. Tracking alongside secret payments no one knew about the Kauai Leonard, that total, $28 million in a no-show endorsement contract and $20 million more in a stock deal that he was signed to. We're talking about $48 million outside of the cap, paid by the richest owner in all of sports. And so the question for Adam Silver, to be blunt about this is, do the rules matter?

You're a steward of integrity, the inconsistency of commentary around what you knew, and in honor of Robert Redford this week, what did you know and when did you know it? That question applies to the commissioner in terms of how he himself has been presented, as well as the investigation, which has taken, for me, you know, many sources and 3,000 pages of documents. So this is your story. I applaud that. I know very little about it. I know there are no show jobs all over the world. but if this is provable, you have to throw the book at the clippers. I will say this. I thought of something that Adam Silver said last week. He said, the burden of proof is not on the clippers to establish their innocence. It's on the league to establish their guilt, if there is guilt.

And I get that. You did say that. Innocent until proven guilty. That is the American judicial system. And that's fine. But, and here's my butt, the NBA is not the FBI. Okay, I wonder about how aggressive they're going. going to be in conducting this investigation because they have interest in this. And it just

seems to me that Adam Silver would like to see all of this go away. I wonder how you feel about that. Shrinking the PR problem is my default assumption for what the goal is. The problem with the shrinkage that he desires is that this story has been shocking to me in terms of its resonance, not just among the board of governors. I've spoke to four owners now who say this should be proportionately punished, but with the fans, Tony, there's a credibility question around, do you actually care about the integrity of your game? And by the way, you're totally right. If this is in fact a violation as I've been reporting it, the rules in the CBA say direct or circumstantial evidence, and you must explain it, quote unquote, rationally. Rationally is an adverb.

What's the word? It's rationally. How do you spin this? No one has explained the most simple thing I reported. There is a secret endorsement deal that seven sources told me was because there was a circumvention of the salary cap between the founder of aspiration and Steve Balmer. And no one has explained why that deal was never announced and why I didn't have to do a single thing for it. And I await the results of the NBA's own investigation on that. On the other hand, who wouldn't want a deal like that, a no-show job for millions of dollars? Let's take a break. Coming up, the Mariners and Astros start a huge series tonight. Which team will we be rooting for?

And who is more likely to snag the final AL wild card slot, the Red Sox or Guardians? Pablo, the NBA All-Star game next year is at Steve Ballmer's Arena. Is that in play for this? I mean, what? These are. Is there any doubt about that? I have heard that that is an important consideration in the investigation,

which is, again, not a judicial investigation. Time to toss-up. Two men enter, one man leaves because Pablo is a substitute co-host and can't hang with the king. What's first? Toss up, they're tied atop the AL West and meet tonight. Which team are you rooting for? The Mariners or the Astros? I respect the Astros.

They've been to the playoffs eight straight years. They lose players. They replace players. They're always competitive. But I find Cal Raleigh and the Seattle Mariners right now completely irresistible. I mean, when is a catcher ever led the league in home runs and RBIs? He's got 56 and 118. He's eight clear in home runs.

He's 10 clear in RBI. You know what I like when he hits a home run? I like when he carries the Trident around in the dugout. I like that. We haven't talked about the Seattle Mariners much as a nation. We really haven't. The last time was in 2001 when they won 116 games. 2001 was the first year we started this show.

It's an eternity ago. And you were in the third grade. I was trying to do the math year 2001. I was a sophomore in high school. I remember, no, you didn't have hair then either. My memory is sharp in some regards. Look, the Mariners, what they did in 01, to your larger point, I just wonder if it matters if they don't win it.

I do. Like, that was the story of that team. You have the most wins in the regular season, and guess what? The Yankees come along, and I know what happened in my childhood from there. So to me, the morality play here is the Astros, And maybe it's because I have fair play and alleged cheating on the brain. But to me, what's so impressive about this team is that it's so clear that they didn't need to cheat.

This franchise is actually really incredible. They are so well run, even in the absence of the architect. They are so well stocked via the farm system. And you ticked off a bunch of the ways that they impress me every year torturing the Yankees in the present tense. So them, weirdly, I want them to win to prove that, It's an indictment in an even grander way that they try to cheat in order to be as good as they actually are. All right. What's the next? Toss up, which team do you favor for the third AL wildcard spot?

The Red Sox or the Guardians? And I'm going back to what Buster only said on this show a couple of days ago, that the Red Sox would be severely wounded by the fact that Roman Anthony wasn't playing. And in fact, they're five and eight since he's gone. and they are scoring one full less run, one less run per game. I will admit, I don't know anything about Cleveland. I mean, I don't think anybody does. I know they can't hit.

They're 21st in the majors in home runs. They're 29th in OPS. Their run differential is minus 23, so they probably shouldn't even have a winning record. But they can pitch. They can pitch when it matters. Yes, they can. In the last two weeks, their collective ERA is,

1-30, which is the best in the majors. I believe they've won 12 out of 13 games, and I think in only two of those games, have they allowed more than two runs. So I'm going to ride with Cleveland on this one. I will admit that my word cloud for the Guardians is Jose Ramirez in giant font, and then a lot of smaller words. That is mostly my understanding as well. The pitching has been impressive to the point of apparent unsustainability. So I will go Red Sox because of that, actually. I've been citing advanced numbers for a while. They suggest that the Guardians must regress to the mean at some point. The Red Sox, the number I'll point out is that they have the fifth.

It's September 19th. It's September 19th. When? It's a good point. The Red Sox, though, have the fifth easiest schedule remaining. And for that reason, I like their chances. I like those numbers mattering. Speaking of a schedule advantage, which you cited earlier in the show.

You were talking about schedule. Their slavishness to numbers has become insane. That's it. A certain urologist just called asking me to take it easy on his son. So we'll take this final break, and when we return, we will update you on Jaden Daniels' status for this week's game against the Raiders. And the NFL sends a message to its officials about the tush push and Tony. I haven't even cited exit velocity once.

And you're already going Wilbonne. So you're saying that they'll regress to the mean. It's September 19th. there's only like eight games left. I mean, what are you holding out hope for? Those eight games might be meaningful to me now as a matter of being right about this argument. Happy time, people.

That the 27th birthday, Tray Young. Everybody knows that on draft night in 2018, the Atlanta Hawks drafted Luca Donchitz with the third pick and traded him to Dallas for the fifth pick, Tray Young. That seeming blunder will be the second sentence on every story written about Young until he wins an NBA championship. Young had a second.

Sterling season last year, playing 76 games, scoring 24.2 points a game, leading the league and assists 11.6 a game. But the Hawks missed the playoffs for a second straight year. Pavel Young seems to have a theatrical streak when he plays the Knicks in Madison Square Garden, taunting Knicks fans. You're a Knicks fan. You were one. How are you with Tray Young? He is not the player, Luca is, but he is, I would even argue, a better TV show. As much as I hate the torment that he's inflicted upon the city in which I reside. It's hard to argue that that guy makes the game more interesting. Happy anniversary Shohei Otani.

On this day just last year, Otani became the first baseball player ever, did 50 home runs and steal 50 bases in one season. Otani did it in spectacular style, going six for six against the Marlins. Five of those six hits were for extra bases, including three home runs. Otani also stole two bases, ending the game with 51 home runs and 51 steals.

By the end of the season, Otani had set the bar at 54 homers, 59 stolen bases. Otani has backed that up with 51 home runs so far this season, but curiously, he has only 19 steals, and I'm wondering out loud if that's because he's pitching again and he doesn't want to risk injury sliding around. Yeah, Tony, I'm surprised on some level that he's been pitching as much as he has been.

I thought they might even save him to be like a reliever in the postseason, but they've gone so hard on the pitching that I must assume they're just being conservative with the legs, which makes total sense to me. I'd like him to do the unprecedented again. Happy trails to the dream and the storm. Both are out of the WNBA playoffs. The dream fell to the fever who advanced

for the first time in 10 years despite the longstanding absence of Star Guard, Caitlin Clark, and the aces bounced back from their first loss in 18 games to eliminate the storm. The fever and aces now face each other in one-semit. with the links awaiting the winner of tonight's game between the Liberty and Mercury in the other. Yeah, Asia Wilson tying your career high with 38 points.

And by the way, we're now getting like this era in which the marquee franchises are emerging. Without Caitlin Clark, we're still getting the fever. That's the surprise. The other ones, not surprising at all to me. One era, of course, it's Pablo's. The Red Sox have the fifth hardest schedule remaining, not the fifth easiest. Harvard? Well.

Let's go to the big finish. The NFL has reportedly instructed. We're reluctant refs to call fall starts on tush pushes. Is that significant? I guess. I don't really think they have a philosophy about this. They're just trying to not be embarrassed by it. Commander's quarterback, Jayden Daniels, is out,

and quarterback Marcus Marieto will start Sunday versus the Raiders. How big a deal is that? Games in Washington, it's against the Raiders. It's a beatable team, I think. Tyler Hero is undergoing surgery on his left foot. We'll miss the start of the season. Is that significant? Yes, he is snake-bidden.

Tony, I believe, is the animal. is the animal that I should mention there. Noah Liles won his fourth consecutive world title in the 200 meters. Are you impressed? Yeah, he ran a 19.5-2. Look, this thing was 12 hours away, right? Nobody got to see it.

It was like at the wrong time for us. He's a great runner. Last one, Clayton Kirschaw's final regular season home start is tonight against the Giants, your thoughts. He is one of the great left-handers you've ever seen when not in the postseason. You're in the regular season. You're in the regular season.

I salute him. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great Dodger pitcher. He only left to better than him is Sandy Kofax. We're out of time. We're trying to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser. And I'm Pablo Torre.

Thank you for watching. Pablo Torre finds out is the show that's trying to investigate Tony Kornheiser.