PTI - Should the Rockies be RELEGATED?

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the NBA Playoffs, NHL Playoffs, and the Colorado Rockies. Plus, what is more iconic the Monaco GP or the Indy 500? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. What an amazing, 23-year run by Around the Horn. Tone.

What do you have to say to Tony Reilly today? I'm Tony Kornheiser. How do you still have your hair? Huh? We don't have any hair. How do you have your hair? I just saw Realli's hair. I saw him in person.

Here in New York City, Tony. Oh, did you? Oh, that's nice to us. Really looks great, sounds great. You know? on my podcast this morning. He was terrific. Did you? He was absolutely terrific. Yeah, I did. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, the Knicks tried to bounce back. The Panthers shut out the canes and a few words about the end of Around the Horn.

But we begin today with the Oklahoma City Thunder cruising through the second half last night and beating Minnesota by 15, 118, 103. Once again, it was Oklahoma City's defense leading the way, creating 14 turnovers resulting in 22 points. The series is now 2-0 Oklahoma City. Will Bonn, is this just two home wins or does it feel different? Tony, it's the second home win to me that feels different. That when Jay Dub and Chet Holmgren play like that in support of the MVP, and I know they were jazzed last night, you know, Shea Gilgist Alexander said that aloud afterward.

He was juiced. But when his, particularly those two teammates and then everybody just falls in line, you get these contributions from the likes of Doris. and they, I think then they look like what they were all season. You know, a 68 win team and the best team in pro basketball. And look, at the beginning of this, I wasn't convinced they would look like this. They've been winning games, they've been learning on the fly. They had a couple of tough losses where it looked like they were shaky and young

and didn't know enough against Denver. But these, again, it's not the two games. maybe the accumulation. It's the one game. It's the game two last night when Shade Gilgis, Alexander is moving around in the mid-range like he was, and you get J. Dub doing some of everything, including some outside shooting in Holmgren, not just offensively, which is what I'm referring to first, but defensively as well being a menace.

Oklahoma City is the best team, and then they're a better team than Minneapolis. I'm not going to say I'm expecting a sweep because I'm not, but I think OKC, really announced itself last night. Yeah. Don't you feel silly being on the Oklahoma City Express all year and then saying, no, I'm going to pick Minnesota. Don't you feel silly about that. Look, we both know the rule. The rule is the playoff series does not start until the home team loses. And that is why the hockey series between Florida and Carolina feels over. And that is why this one does not feel over just yet. But as I told you the other day after game one, if the way game one

was won by Oklahoma City represented a pattern, then this series was not going to go any more than five games. You know, Oklahoma City won 19 more games in the regular season than Minnesota. That is a lot of games. And Oklahoma City has a defense that forces turnovers and gets points off turnovers. Mike, in two games, it's 53 points off turnovers. In the Battle of the Great Stars, Gilgius Alexander, is totally outdoing Anthony Edwards,

who last night, I believe, was one for nine from three. So we're on the verge of seeing that Oklahoma City is a significantly better team. You took the position a couple of days ago that Julius Randall was going to be the key for Minneapolis, what you said before, Minnesota. We had six points last night on two-for-11 shooting. In fact, Mike, as you know, three, okay, in the negative way, three of their starters had six points or fewer

because Mike Connolly had three and Rudy Gobert had five. you can't win that way. I know you want every series to go seven. It doesn't look like this is going seven. So we move on to the other series. Wilbon, you're in New York City. You're there for game two with the Knicks and the Pacers. Like many others, millions probably. You couldn't believe what happened in game one. You said yesterday you could not make any sense of it. So tonight they go again. How significant is tonight's game for the Knicks for the Knicks? Huge, Tony. Huge. And I'm going to stop short of saying a must win, even though they are at home. You know, I mean, this is different, you know, than the Oklahoma Minnesota

series, and Minnesota haven't been home yet and down oh, 2, okay. But the Knicks, if they go down two, losing 2 at home, I don't know that they're going to recover from that, even though they're a really good road team. So, Tony, but I expect the Knicks. I think what the Knicks are not is fragile at all. I think the toughness of the Knicks, even though we're talking regular season, proof that's all. The toughness was proven in part last year playing injured the way they did bravely, if I can use that word, in the playoffs. And then what we know about Jalen Brunson and their coach, Tom Thibodeau, and Josh Hart. And this is just, you know, they're tough physically and mentally. And I expect the Knicks to bounce back. I expect them to find a way

to, if they have a lead, hold on to it, enough of it. And by, by, by, By the way, a lot of it just starts with how about making some free throws? Because if they've done that and not missed, I think, 12 of them in game one, we wouldn't even be having a conversation in the same direction. So I'm expecting the Knicks, yes, to win. I'm going to stop short of saying convincingly, but I don't think this ought to be a nail-biter. I think the Knicks ought to sort of impress upon, you know, Indiana, who is a real team in this series, who the better seed is,

who had expectations coming into this series. Yeah, this is an easy question for me. I believe if the Knicks lose tonight, they're done. I believe they could go around the court side seats, and they could find Bill Bradley, and they could find Walt Frazier, and Bernard King and Carmelo Anthony and Patrick Ewing, and hand them their old jerseys

and say, you go out there and play, because we're done with this thing. But like you, I expect the Knicks to bounce back. I expect Jalen Brunson to lead them, and I will say this to a convincing win. And I expect the Indiana Pacers to walk out of Madison Square Garden quickly and quietly grinning to themselves because they stole game one. But I do expect the Knicks to win with this small caveat, and I'm going back to something I said the other day. Carly Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson had 78 points between them in game one and they lost.

The other players on that team have to score more points. Bridges and Ananobe and Hart, they combined, among themselves, they had 40. They're going to have to do more than that. And the reason is because the Knicks bench, because Tibado doesn't play anybody, the Knicks bench had 17 points, and the Indiana bench had 31. He plays his starters, an average of 42 minutes in the last game. Now, you've got to do that again if you need it. You've got to play it like you're on maneuvers for the Army.

You can't worry about being tired for game three if you don't win game two. but, you know, they're in a bind. But I do like you, I think they'll win, and I think it'll be convincing. Bridges, Ananobe, and Hart. Got to be an ensemble effort for the Knickerbockers tonight, not just two dudes. And now to the Stanley Cup playoffs, the Panthers crushed the hurricanes five zip last night to take the two games to none lead in their Eastern Conference final series. Both wins have been in Raleigh.

Tone, are you now counting? out the hurricanes. Am I counting them out? I'm like Mills Lane going six, seven. Yeah. I was going to say that. This series feels like a no-hofer. It does at this point.

This is an amazing stat I'm going to give you. The Carolina team is 0 in their last 14 Eastern Conference final playoff games. Oh, and 14. They were swept by Pittsburgh in 2009. They were swept by Boston in 2000. 2019. They were slept by Florida two years ago, 2003, and they're down 02 now. They actually won the cup in 2006, so they had to win the Eastern Conference finals, and they did over Buffalo 4 to 3. And I don't think Buffalo's been in a playoff since then, right? I mean, so I'm watching

last night, I'm watching the Nats against the Braves, I'm watching the basketball, I'm jumping around, I'm checking in on the hockey at some point early on. It's 3-0. Florida. I go, whoa, this is over, Not just this game. This series is over. P.K. Suban told us the other day that Florida and Carolina play the same game and Florida plays it better. And that's what we're seeing.

Mike, their last four road games in the playoffs, I assume, against Toronto and Carolina's crazy. 22 to 4. Yeah. 22 to 4. Tony, that's like, listen, I was taking the train, taking the Acela last night from Washington to New York

to be here, as you mentioned, the game tonight. And I run off. the train, I go, okay, this should be, you know, we're first period, it can't be that deep in. You know, Carolina's going to stand up as I challenged yesterday, except I walk in, I click it on, it's two nothing, and quickly like you, it's three nothing, and it was just a no-hopper. There's this one line from Mr. Kachuk, who always seems to be in the middle of describing everything and in the action and maybe knocking people out, too, where he says, quote, I think,

that's about as good as it gets. And he's talking about not just the score, and he was very careful to specify, just the way his team played. This was a kill shot. This wasn't just like Mills Lane. This is like Mills Lane, if he was in the ring, counting out your boy Michael Spinks

when he got laid out by Mike Tyson. It was like that. It's like, really, Carolina is this toothless where it can't do anything, it can't mount a challenge. And against the Panthers, their defending champion. of playing like it.

Last week, Carolina was getting 40 and 50 shots on goal against the Washington Capitals. Last night, they had 17. Florida has completely figured out how to stop that team. They have. And by the way, they got Brobrovsky back there if they needed. So let's take a break. Coming up, the Rockies are having an historically bad season. Do you want to see that trend end or continue?

We've got two huge auto races this weekend, but which one is more iconic? Do you ever wonder how come Florida didn't win the East? Like you see them in the playoffs. You said, well, what is this? Maybe they weren't paying attention. You know, sometimes teams get bored. Pardon the interruption is brought to you by the UPS store. It's time for toss-up, two men enter, one man leaves, finishes the show, faces himself in the

bathroom mirror and says, still got it, kid. What's first? Toss up the Yankees and Rockies begin a three-game series tonight. Would you like to see the Rockies start winning or keep losing? So I was a Mets fan, as you know, Mike. I was not a Yankees fan, so I know all about teams that lose. Colorado is awful. I got some numbers here.

They have the worst ERA in baseball, 582. They've made the most errors in baseball, 45 or already. They're tied for the second worst in run production and batting average. They are 8 and 42. They have not won a single series. They are on pace for 26 and 136, which would make last year's white socks look like the 27 Yankees, right? They've already fired their manager. The new manager is one and nine. I don't know his name. It doesn't matter because he's not going to be there long because he's already one and nine. Here is my feeling. I would actually like to say, see the Colorado Rockies, win a couple of games to the Yankees. I think it's good for baseball,

and I don't think it's going to keep the Yankees from being in the playoffs. I don't. That's very nice, and it's charitable, and it's a reasonable position you just took, except the Chicago Cubs play in Chicago against the Rockies Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. I ain't ready for the Rockies to win Jack. I want them to keep losing. I want them to limp out of Chicago to wherever they're going, right out of Wrigley Field to O'Hare, signature airport, and then get out of Dodge because we're playing for something. I do feel bad for him.

But, Tony, if you lose 15 games more than last year's White Sox, you need to be relegated. Isn't there like a AAA in Albuquerque or somewhere that could be promoted? Syracuse. Syracuse, New York, AAA and Syracuse. I know the GM. No, you've got to get out.

Good. It's terrible. You shouldn't even be able to be that bad and remain in the bigs. But for now, cheers, keep losing. Okay. What's next? Toss up more iconic race on Sunday, the Monaco Grand Prix or the Indy 500. Okay, so this is a real big day for auto racing.

You've got the Formula One people in the Grand Prix. You've got the Indy car people, obviously, in Indianapolis. You got the NASCAR people after that at the Coca-Cola 600. People are calling this motorsports Christmas. My feeling about this is the Grand Prix, which has now been around almost 100 years in Monaco. It has elegance and it has history. I remember when I was a kid reporter at Newsday,

I covered a Grand Prix in Watkins Glen, New York, and I thought it was sexy. It was a different kind of racing that I had ever been around. But I lean towards the Indianapolis 500. I think that it is really the great American race and not necessarily Daytona. I think the cars are cooler. I have been there. I've covered it a few times.

I was around Roger Penske. I was around A.J. Foyt. I was around Mario Andretti. You know, to me, it's the milk at the end. The milk at the end is just a cool ending, just for me. Listen, I've covered three of those races. I, too, in Indianapolis. loved going there, loved being there.

But Tony, just listen to the people who have won in Monaco. And I've been to Monaco. I've actually... You've seen that. Sounds just like I'm trying to flex. I've been in Monaco when that race has been staged. It's unbelievable. Ariton Seneca has won six times.

Lewis Hamilton three times. Michael Schumacher five times. Jackie Stewart three times. Lame Stewart, five times. I mean, if you're anybody... You've won it, and not just once. You've got to walk away with multiples. I mean, that list is so impressive.

The Coca-Cola 600, get out of here. No, no, no. It's a choice between Monaco and Indy. And Monaco is just so cool. I will concede that it's hard to say I prefer Indianapolis to Monaco. Sure, I will concede that. That sentence can be stated. So I'm just talking about the race.

Yeah. That's it. Let's take one last break still to come. Ronald Cunia Jr. returns to the Braves. What should we expect? Good. And the oil is trying to get even with the stars. Also, we're going to have some thoughts on around the hall.

Those cars, the F-1 cars, they want coolest cars. Yeah. Let me just say, you want sexy. Be in Monaco when that race is going on. You know what I'm saying? You know, right? It's not on an oval. Pardon the interruption is brought to you.

Buy Real Steel. Find yours at SteelUSA.com. Happy time, people. Happy 69th birthday buck Showalter. William Nathaniel Showalter has 1,727 wins as a manager and 1,665 losses over 22 seasons. His first Major League managerial turn was with the New York Yankees from 1992 to 1995. He was succeeded by Joe Torrey, who won four championships in the Bronx. Show Walter then managed Arizona from 1998 to 2000. He was succeeded by Bob Brenley, who won the World Series the next year.

Show Walter then managed Texas from 2003 to 2006, then managed the Orioles from 2010 to 2018, and most recently managed the Mets in 2022 and 2023. Show Walter has been to the playoff six different times, but he never got to the World Series. Tony, doesn't show Walter seem like a bridge between that generation of guys, represented by Billy Martin and Earl Weaver, and then your new school managers.

But he wasn't going to let some GM, I can't believe he would, tell him when to take a picture out. There's a real manager. No. No. That's managed by the seat of your pants guy. He's not playing that game. No, no, no, no, no. Happy anniversary of Kim Eliyuan.

Around this day, 31 years ago, the dream was named NBA MVP, making him the first foreign-born player to earn the honor. In what was indeed a dream season, the Nigerian native became the first player ever to win MVP, defensive player of the year, and finals MVP in the same season. You may remember game five of those finals when almost everyone in Madison Square Garden left their seat to find a TV and follow the OJ's slow car chase. Eleven years after Eliza won one MVP, Steve Nash became the second non-American to win. Two years later, Dirk Novitsky won. Now, Shay Gilgius Alexander has won, making it seven seven. straight seasons, an international player has one MVP.

You didn't have to leave your seat, by the way, in Madison Square Garden that night. I know because I was there. You can watch it on the screen above the court. It was put up there. The chase was put up by mistake, and we were all captivated. Akeem Elijah Juan, as great as he was, and people still go to him like LeBron and say, show me that in the summer. He's still underrated.

Akeem doesn't get enough love for being as great. as he was. Happy Trails Around the Horn. For nearly 23 years around the Horn has led into PTI, and we could not have asked for a better partner program. ATH built up an audience and handed it off to us so we could hit the ground running every weeknight. 17 different Around the Horn panelists have substitute

hosted this show at one time or another, and so many people behind the scenes have worked on both shows. We are so proud in particular of Tony Reilly. Tony Reilly, who started here on PTI as a researcher in 2001 and continued as our beloved stat boy for so many years, even while hosting a show of his own. We love you, Tony. Thanks to you and Around the Horn for everything. Tony, I just ran into Realli a couple of hours ago outside the Seaport studio. And I didn't want to get emotional. We had a big hug and he kissed me on my head, but it was just great to see him.

I'm sorry that everybody else isn't going to see him as frequently. Reality is so great at this. He hosted more shows than Oprah, okay? So we love Tony Realli. We are friends with a great many of the guests, as you mentioned, on Around the Horn. Cheers forever and ever and ever more. Let us go to the big finish if we could, but I need prompted to see the questions, of course. It's all wait for a while.

Ronald O'Coonia Jr. is back with the Braves. tonight. Is that a big deal? Yeah, he tore that ACL a year ago. While he was the reigning NL MVP, you want to see him back at that level as soon as he can get there. Angels, Phillies, have both won seven in a row, which is the bigger deal? We expect it from the Phillies. Nobody expects that from the Angels. The New York Liberty sold a small state that values the team at $450 million. Your thoughts? Just won the record valuation for a women's professional sports franchise. Hence are more things to come, I hope. Jokovic made the final in Geneva, is that significant?

Winning it would be more significant, but it's on clay. Just like Paris, on clay. Last one, Oilers at Stars, game two tonight. Who got it? Okay, the Oilers are not the Hurricanes. I really do expect the Oilers not to let this go 02 to even this series at won tonight. We're out of time. We'll try and do better the next time.

Congratulations to Binghamton and the softball. I'm Mike Lobon. great weekend knuckleheads. You can get the podcast on the app or Apple podcast. Northwestern Women's The Cross playing for the final four. Let's beat Boston Card.