PTI - The Kawhi Leonard trade is stuck in limbo as the LA Investigation Looms

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Pablo Torre and Tony Kornheiser discuss the impact of the LA Investigation on Kawhi Leonard, Christian Pulisic's injury and MLB star Justin Verlander retiring after this season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Pardon the interruption, but I'm Pablo Torre and Tony. A jersey worn by Jalen Brunson in game one of the finals sold for more than a million dollars. I'm Tony Kornheiser and yet no nibbles for my show won Spanx. None. Zero. I don't need a million dollars. That is a disturbing. A couple of hundred thousand.

A couple hundred thousand. A finsky. Or a finsky. If somebody offered me a finskin, you could have. Bring that to seven. Boys and girls. Wilbon's still recovering from his BBL, so I'm joined by our great friend from the podcast. Pablo Tori finds out Mr. Pablo Tori. And we begin today with an NBA trade that appear to be done, but apparently isn't. The Clippers' trade of Kawhi Leonard to the Raptors is on hold until the

conclusion of the NBA's investigation into whether the Clippers circumvented the salary cap with a no-show endorsement deal from aspiration. Pablo, you uncovered the original story on your podcast. You want to pull a surprise for it. What do you make of this development? It has been 10 months since my first episode dropped, 10 months since the NBA decided to follow up with their own. We await their findings and in the process.

It is now taking 10, well, almost 10, nine days conservatively for the NBA, apparently to inform these teams who then announced it, that this thing can't be completed. And so my question fundamentally is this, why did it take nine days after lots of conversation for this news to break? How does that happen? It's very confusing. It's very embarrassing, I would say, for everybody involved to go through with this whole series of announcements, only to say, actually, we can't quite go through with this yet.

And so what I'm saying, by the way, for my behalf, is that we've obtained a whistleblower complaint submitted under penalty of perjury to the federal government back in 2023 that identifies. whole thing as salary cap circumvention for the Clippers and Kauai Leonard. That was the whole document that kicked off the federal investigation, Tony. So there's that. We have documents showing money in, money out from the Clippers co-owner Dennis Wong. Nine days before, Aspiration paid Kauai Leonard after they were three months late in paying him. There's so much here, obviously.

It's been a lot to process, but nine days is the lead here. Why are we learning about this now? because I don't know, and I have questions. So I have a couple of questions for you. The first one is I thought this was a done deal. I thought they shipped them out of the country. You know, we went to Toronto. Everybody was happy and this was done.

Do you think that there will at the end of this investigation? Do you think there will be any punishment for Kauai and or the Clippers? According to my reporting, it would be absurd if there wasn't. But that is according to independent journalism. The question here, the backstage proceedings have to do is, Was there a question? Was there a change in the question around how are we messaging this publicly? Or was it a change in terms of the findings of their investigation? And Tony, the NBA hired Wachtel Lipton.

This is one of the greatest white shoe law firms in this country. And so they have all the resources. They got the billable hours that I do not. They have all of the ways to find out information. I am showing over 10 months and 11 episodes. It's there to be found. I just don't know if they want to bring it to the public. and I hope they do. That is my personal wish and belief.

We move now to a Summer League basketball game tonight in Las Vegas that doesn't count for anything official or does it. This game will feature the number one pick in the draft, A.J. DeBancet, now a Washington wizard. Against the number two pick in the draft, Darren Peterson, now on the Utah Jazz. Pablo, are you very curious, somewhat curious, or not curious at all about this game?

We did this show yesterday together, before trade news and so forth and happened all that. Ryan Winhorse sold me a car and I bought it on the lot. This Darren Peterson kid, the way he described what's surprising about him, three-level scorer, a guy who was underestimated, now shows up at Summer League, and I know Summer League is a place where all sorts of players come and go, like mirages in the desert.

But Darren Peterson seems like he's not 11. And so I'm interested in that kid, and DeBenz, obviously, is a great measuring stick for him. So, yeah, I like Peterson. Yeah, so my general philosophy about Summer League is that it counts for absolutely nothing. Most of the players you will see in Summer League are never going to play in the NBA. I mean, Summer League is about a vacation and Summer League is about a television opportunity. But because of where I live in Washington, D.C., and because I know that the Wizards and the Utah Jazz

have spent the last two to three years tanking every single time they can to get players like this, this, you know, the potential for this having an enormous sort of impact is right there for somebody like me. As you say, Peterson has already shown what he can do. There's one game 25 points, 12 assists in 28 minutes, and that's a game that screams to the NBA. I'm ready to go right now. DeBanza hasn't played at all yet. The Wizards have spent the last 10 years being awful and getting everything wrong. if Peterson were to really outshine DeBanson,

there's going to be a lot of people walking down K Street in the morning saying we picked the wrong guy. I think the pressure here is all on DeBancet. They played in high school and college, one game each. Peterson's team won both those games. DeBancis scored, I believe, 45 points against Peterson's team in high school. Peterson had 61 against the other guys' team. So, I got to say, I'm...

The biggest upset is... is that you just went over the bell on Summer League. Can the historian of record, please note this, Tony Cornheiser, over the bell on NBA Summer League. That's what just happened. I'll get back into the rhythm of it. Let's stay with the NBA in something Charles Barkley said on unfiltered, a Philadelphia radio show

that he thinks the right landing spot for LeBron James is Cleveland. Barclay said, quote, if he goes to Philly, people are going to say he's ring chasing to catch Michael. If he goes to Golden State, they'll say he's ring chasing. If he goes to the Cavaliers, because that's his home, he grew up there, that team lacks leadership, and LeBron is a great leader. It will be a fitting place for him to finish his career, unquote.

Pablo, does Charles Barkley make a convincing case that Cleveland is the right spot for LeBron? The case he's making that I co-sign is that this is largely a conversation, a decision around what is the story LeBron wants to tell. He's looking for his finale, Tony, and as a former magazine writer, you know, a three-act structure should hopefully have some satisfying denouement. And so the question is, is Philly, which hasn't won a title since 83, is that more satisfying than ending it in the one place in America that plausibly considers you actually their own? And so if Charles is saying that only Cleveland offers that, I would agree. But more interesting, basketball-wise, would be the Sixers to me. I just don't think it's a basketball decision. I think it's probably a PR narrative one. Okay, so I find it fabulous that Charles is talking about ring chasing and LeBron.

Let me make this clear. That is exactly what LeBron is doing. He is ring chasing. Wherever he lands, he is ring chasing. That's why he's still in the league at 41. That's why he's not with the Lakers because he knows they have no chance, even with him on that team. So, I mean, we have to make that clear. And by the way, I agree with that because it's the only way he can be on the same level as Michael Jordan.

Michael Jordan has six championships. LeBron has four. Kobe had five. Magic has five. Kareem had six. This is what LeBron has to do. And by the way, there's 20 to 25 teams in the NBA that would say to LeBron, come here and we can win. Minnesota's entire pitch is come here and we can win. And if he wins at Golden State, if he wins at Philadelphia, it's going to be because he's there. Because you know, Pablo, you know this? They didn't win this year. They didn't win last year. They didn't win the year before.

So it will be LeBron. It will be LeBron. I just like that the Knicks did this to the brains of the NBA. The Knicks won the title and suddenly no one knows what they're doing. They're doing podcasts with their agent with a whiteboard in the background of Max Kellerman. But I want to move now to the Christian Polisic Health Update. Because the athletic reports that Policic suffered a bone bruise and a micro fracture in his lower right leg, Tony. This coming in Monday nights lost to Belgium.

He's going to be out four to six weeks. And several soccer analysts, as we've covered, have publicly questioned his toughness. in the last few days. So should this news mitigate the Christian Politic criticism? Well, I think it will certainly give Carly Lloyd and Landon Donovan something to ruminate over. Carly Lloyd was upset with the fact that after the game, after the Belgian game, you know, Polisic said, well, I'll have some time to rest. Her direct quote was, you know, you can rest when your career is over. Right? And then today, she said, I have nobody to apologize to. So she's sort of kind of doubling down.

Landon Donovan said that he shows up in easy games. He doesn't show up in hard games. And the quote was, it's more than just a trend now. I saw a long interview with Landon Donovan where he said, you know, that if you ask anything of Christian Policic, you get a no from his people all the time. You get a hard no. His quote, is, people are fed up with the way that things are handled around Policic.

And he even suggested Pulitzer could be booed the next time the men's national team play. So I don't think a micro fracture is going to take that away. You know, I think you still have to focus on no goals, four games, no goals. This is Wonderboy. He's supposed to be the revolution in soccer in America. So even legitimate injury, I'm not sure that people haven't made their minds up already. Pablo, he's got four more years till the next one. How's he going to change that in four years?

I do think that a through line in this whole A block has been public relations. And the question I have is, why did you guys wait so long to even begin to signal that actually there might be a really serious thing because, A, this whole conversation being shaped by the question of was he really heard at all, you could have helped nip that one in the bud. And that would have helped some. With the larger question that you're referring to with Donovan, and I listened to that same interview, he's calling Polisic a diva, a guy who has people around him that's not helping his own best interests. And that, look, you've covered, you've covered, let's call them, unsavory personalities in your time.

in sports journalism, you know that it's not just one thing. It is multiple things forming a psychology, and the question for Polisic is, who's helping you? It seems like he needs some of it. Sports psychologists are out there. They help. Let's take a break. Coming up, will anyone ever win as many games

as Justin Burlander has? We're going to ask Jeff Passen. We'll also ask him what the Tigers are likely to do about Tyraq Scouble, wanting them to be a buyer at the deadline. For people who pay attention to this show, we just did four stories in the A block kids. Four stories. Come on now.

That's a big time effort on a Thursday. I have 40 missed calls about this Kauai thing. Yeah, this is, wow. Whether life serves you an ace or an unexpected backhand, the high-protein yogurt Oikos Pro is there to feed your strength and help you turn every challenge into a smash. Oikos Pro helps build strong muscles and support muscle recovery with high-protein. and contains no added sugar. Because true strength isn't about being able to take the hits. It's about being able to bounce back.

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AI Cloud ERP for any size business. We've got baseball questions for our great friend ESPN, senior baseball insider, Jeff Passon. Let us start with this. Justin Verlander is going to retire at the end of the season. He's got 266 wins, the most of anybody out there right now pitcher. Is baseball at all concerned

that no one could ever get close to that number again? There's a little bit of concern just because the 300 win club is one of those markers like the 500 home run club used to be, but the game evolves, Tony, and it is evolving to the place where we are never going to see a 300 game winner again. I say that with a fair bit of confidence, actually.

Because if you look at the numbers, right now there are only two pitchers who have more than 200 wins, and that's Justin Verlander, who's retiring, and Max Scherzer, who is probably going to retire as well. If you look at pitchers with just, 100 wins, there are only 17 of them, and none of them is younger than 30 years old. The most wins for a player under 30 years old in Major League Baseball right now is Logan Webb,

who's 29 and has 75 wins. The second most wins belongs to Tarrick Scouble, who's got 59 and is 29 years old. Look, the game has evolved away from the idea that the pitcher win is the defining. statistic for them. But it's also sad because it exemplifies how baseball has gotten away from guys going seven, eight, nine innings in earning those wins and just more emphasis on relief than there's ever been before. You mentioned scoobel, Jeff. I want to swing the camera over to Detroit because Detroit is four games out of the last wildcard spot. They've won seven of eight, though. And scuba's an offending free agent. And he's saying, I want you guys to buy you guys to buy

at the deadline. So how do you see that plea playing out? Pablo, it's not just that Terrick Scoopal wants to stick around and finish what he started, but I think he understands that if the Tigers are selling, it's not just him. It's Casey Mize as well. Like, there's real incentive for them to have a reboot via a couple of trades. But they also understand they're playing good baseball finally. The American League is a complete wasteland, and you're probably going to have a 500 team making the playoffs. And And even more than that, the Tigers before the trade deadline on August 3rd are going to have series against the Angels, against the Royals, and against the Orioles and A's. Those are four of the worst teams in the American League at this point.

So winning 7 of 8 the way they have is an awfully good start. But they have to continue this and convince Scott Harris, the president of baseball operations in Detroit, that this is something that's worth holding on to and that they really do feel like they could go out and win the American League. So other financial decision making now taking us to the NL West, the Dodgers, they gave 240 million over four years to Kyle Tucker. Not great that his batting average is approximately what he's getting paid. It's 249, in fairness to him. Seven home runs, reading that off the paper. Is there concern from the Dodgers over the amount of investment they put into him? I think it's less concern over the investment and more just about the production, because Kyle Tucker has not.

had stretches like this in the past. And it's not as if the Dodgers brought him in to be the guy. Like, they have the guy. His name is Shohei Otani. And they have another guy, and his name is Mukhi Betts, and another guy named Yoshinobu Yamamoto and another guy named Freddie Freeman. And we can go on about all the guys they have. They just wanted Kyle Tucker to blend into the background and do what he's done throughout his whole career, which is be productive. And we haven't seen a whole lot of productivity at this point. And Alden Gonzalez, Onyspn.com, I think, did a really good story looking into the reasons behind Kyle Tucker's struggles. And some of it is timing.

His swing looks off. But he is putting in work. And that's something that's been a criticism of him in the past. And I think as much as the Dodgers are concerned, Kyle Tucker himself is even more concerned that he's just not living up to this mega contract that he got. We will get you out of here on this. We're going to go back to pitchers. Blue Jays manager, John Schneider, left Dylan Seeson the other night to go for a no-hitter, saying, quote, I'm a fan of baseball.

I think of a guy as a chance to throw a no-hitter, you let him do it. Now, C-Sys didn't get it, but why don't more managers have that kind of spirit that Schneider has? I wish they did, because no-hitters are awesome, and perfect games are even better, and Yuri Perez just last week, you know, young guy, number one, coming off of Tommy John's surgery as well, So they're trying to limit things. He's been hurt in the past. He's been hurt this year. And they yanked him after seven perfect innings.

And I'm sitting there, you know, pulling my hair out. Like, come on. We've only seen two dozen of these throughout the course of baseball history. Are you really going to interrupt that? But frankly, managers these days, Tony, they're just taking their calls from the front office. And front offices are terrified by injuries. And I give John Schneider a lot of credit. he has the pulse of that clubhouse.

And I think he understands that what a no-hitter from Dillen Seas could have done for that team going forward would have actually been pretty powerful for a team that needs it. But I'm with you. More no-hitters, more perfect games, more opportunities, please, just because it's a good thing for baseball.

Thank you so much for being with us, Jeff. Thank you. Yes. Pleasure is always my guys. Thanks. Let's take one last break still to come. Cocoa Gophs did to make the Wimbledon finals comes up short. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group.

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Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder, what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home.

Happy time, people. Happy 74th birthday John Tesh. Tesh started out being famous as a sports announcer. Then it turned out, he'd come. composed music as well. His composition of round ball rock became the theme song for basketball and NBC from 1990 to 2002. When NBC reacquired the NBA last year, they put round ball rock back where it once belonged.

Pablo, I'm given to understand by people far younger than I am that this song is something of an internet sensation. You're far younger than I am. Can you explain it to me? Yeah, while you were on press row somewhere in the building, we were watching NBC dosing ourselves, it would turn out to be unparalleled nostalgia. It is so great that song, but it's sort of like that song that just triggers in you the feeling of being a child again. And as we are now 40 years old, speaking on behalf of those kids in the 90s, 40-year-olds now, that's why it feels

so good is because it makes us feel younger than we feel day to day. Okay, a not-so-happy anniversary to the 1990 Major League Baseball Home Run Derby. On this day, 36 years ago, the Home Run Derby took place during the day at Chicago's Wrigley Field with the wind blowing in. Needless to say, with the hawk blowing in, the derby turned into a memorable event for all the wrong reasons. The eight sluggers combined to hit just five home runs. Ryan Sandberg, used to the wind in Wrigley, won the event in his home park with just three home runs.

Mark McGuire hit one. Matt Williams hit one. Ken Griffey Jr., Jose Kinseko, Barry Bond, Cecil Field, or Daryl's Strawberry. They all got shut out. or what I would give to have Wilbon here to defend his sorry ballpark. See, that's why Wilbon had to tuck his Cubs jersey into his pants. The wind. Got to stay aerodynamic.

Got to keep it all under control. That's why he had to do that. It all makes sense now. The wind. Yeah, when he threw out the opening pitch. Happy Trails Coco Gop. The highest remaining seat on the women's side went out to Carolina Mujova in this morning semifinal.

The seven-seeded golf fell in three sets to the 10th-seated Mujova. Goff had a championship point at 9-8 in the third set tie break, but hit an attack of a ball into the net, later explaining that she panicked a bit while attempting a drop shot. Mohova went on to win the tie break 1210. Mujova will face number nine seed and fellow Czech Linda Naskova in Saturday's final.

Yeah, I'm already looking forward to the U.S. Open here in New York with Cocoa Golf where I first encountered her when she was a teenager. Make a big impression then. I hope her summer, of course, is not yet over. She's wonderful to watch. I mean, I watched a lot of that match. She was really, and in the end it was won. It was not lost in the last couple of points.

Let's go to the big finish if we could. England's Jarrell Kwanza was suspended two games for his red card. Two games. Is that justice? I mean, that's tough. He's going to miss the quarterfinal versus Norway and also the semi if they win. That seems like a bit much. The commanders, meanwhile, will retire John Riggins.

Your boy, his number 44. Does that make sense? It's long overdue. He is probably the greatest player in the franchise history, long overdue. Jordan Clarkson, back with the Knicks for the one-year $3.9 million veteran minimum. Is that a good call?

That is a steal for the notably part Filipino, Jordan Clarkson. Connor Bedard, meanwhile, he's going to miss the first month of the season after shoulder surgery. Is that a cause for concern? Every time you're after a month that you have surgeries of some point, it's a cause for concern.

Again, I wish Wilbonne were here. here to defend his boy. He hasn't been the great player that the number one pick often is. Last one, Darius Aikov Jr. and Keaton Wogler face each other in Summer League tonight. Another Summer League question. You intrigued? Woggleer is playing for the Clippers. I am, I guess, contractually obligated to watch all their comings and going. So, yeah, I am. I wonder if they let Kauai play in Summer League and not the Real League. We're out of time. Trying to better the next time. I'm Tony Cornhiker.

And I am not Michael Wilbaum. And unfortunately, as Tony reminded us many times today, thank you for watching nonetheless. And now, your Sports Center.