PTI - Toronto Blue Jays beat LA Dodgers to tie the Series

Episode Date: October 30, 2025

Mike Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser react to the Toronto Blue Jays beating the Los Angeles Dodgers to even the series. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilburne. A message in a bottle washed up in Australia after 109 years at sea. I'm Tony Kornheiser.

It was written by a young U.B. Brown. Yeah. That's cold. That's cold. No. I don't believe these message in a bottle stories. They're even more fraudulent than the Florida man stories. I believe this.

I believe something could be in a bottle for 109 years. I believe that's possible. Yeah, beer. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, Dave Roberts makes lineup changes. Michael Jordan criticizes load management, and Steve Young joins us for five good minutes. But we begin today with the World Series being tied two to two after Toronto beat the Dodgers last night, 6 to 2.

This was a rather dull game in comparison to the 18-in-thriller of game three that the Dodgers won. Shoahatani started for the Dodgers last night. gave up a two-run home run to Vlad Guerrero Jr. in the third inning to put Toronto ahead two to one. Toronto got four more runs in the seventh inning, chasing Otani and pounding a couple of Dodgers relievers. Wilbon, what do you think of how this one played out? Tony, I only care about one of the themes. And yes, I went in caring about Shohei, came out, not caring about Shohei. It was great that he went out there after what happened the previous night when he had to be exhausted

and pitched and pitched pretty darn well. But Tony, this game was about Toronto's resilience. And resilience is one of those words. It's so overused in sports. But the disappointment, the crushing disappointment of that 18-inning loss, you got to sit there. You're in L.A. still. You didn't go back.

You still are in L.A. You got to go back out to Dodger Stadium to play that game the way they did to get the starting pitching, to get the home run from Vlad Jr. It's all about Toronto and a standing ovation for me, from the way they responded to what had to be maybe the most crushing loss. I don't know in franchise history.

Yeah, I mean, I am not surprised at the outcome of the game. And I also expected it to be not as tension-filled as the night before, and it was not. But I tip my hat to Toronto, and I will say on the air, you said yesterday you thought Toronto needed that game more than the Dodgers and they got that game. And they went to their old formula to get that game. Toronto as a team comes back in games where they fall behind. They were down 1-0 yesterday early, but they were down 1-0 on the road.

They win games, you know, when they're down in the series. They were down 2-0-3-2 to Seattle in that series. They were down, obviously, two to one in this series. That's why, you know, Toronto, I'll take your word, resilience. They have that. They're a very good team who cannot count them out, which may explain why there was a quote last night, referencing Herb Brooks and a team of uncommon men.

I'm just looking at the notes here. My joy in that game, I don't want to go too long, was to see Otani against Guerrero. first time it was three pitches, Mike, and he struck him out in the first inning. The second time Guerrero parked it in the left field seats, and then there was a line-out. I mean, these are the two biggest stars in the World Series, and to go head-to-head like that, that was something very exciting for me to see. Yep. And those are the matchups, the classic match-ups, Tom, we remember over time, particularly from World Series. Let's move to tonight's game five. Yes,

still in L.A. Blue Jays Rookie Trayy Savage will take the mound against the Dodgers Blake Snell in a rematch of game one. And with several Dodgers struggling at the plate in the series, Dave Roberts made changes to the lineup.

Will Smith moves up to the number two hole. Mimamukhi drops the third. Andy Paheyes is out with Alex Carl taking over his spot, number nine. Tone, you think these changes are going to make a difference for the Dodgers tonight.

So I'm happy with the change that gets Alex call into the lineup and playing the outfield somewhere. I watched him when he was on the Washington Nationals. He's a very good contact hitter. He's a fine fielder. And let's be fair about Pahas for a second, okay? One for 15 in the World Series and four for 50 in the playoffs. How much of a larger sample size do you need? I would not necessarily change anyone else because everybody else is why you're in Game 5 of the World Series. But would I be concerned about Looney Betts being, what, three for 19 in the World Series? Would I be concerned that the Dodgers run production is a full half run less than it wasn't a regular season, that their batting average is 10 points less than it wasn't a regular

season? Look, Mike, I think the Dodgers need to win this one. Because this series is going back to Toronto. And Toronto is a good team at home. Toronto won the last two games at home to win the ALCS. Toronto won the first game, you know, of the World Series here. I do think the Dodgers have to win this one in the way that you thought Toronto had to win last night. Yeah, I think the Dodgers need to win this game, but I don't think those numbers make any difference. They're playing against better pitching. It's the World Series. It's not May 3rd against the Rockies. It's the numbers you're supposed to come down. And they have. So changing the batting or the show. Hey, was one for 21 at a point. You ain't going to take him out. So Muki Betz can find it.

He's got guarantee he's working on it. He's looking at film. He's in the cage. He might get some outside consultate. Of course, this is what the World Series is. It's best on best. So I agree with you on call. Who's like four for nine or something like that so far in the postseason. I agree. Get him in there. Do I think they're going to make a major difference because they shuffled the deck, you know, the chairs on the deck? No, I don't. I don't. Here's the major difference. The major difference could come from Blake Snell. I don't think he's going to give up five earned like he did in game one. And I don't think he's going to take about 30 pitches to get out of the first inning like he did. But he's got to go

seven or eight, Mike, because the Dodgers' true bullpen was revealed last night. He's got to go seven or eight, or I don't think they have a chance. Let's move to Michael Jordan, expressing his disregard for load management in an interview with NBC's Mike Tarrico. Jordan said he never did it. He wanted to be out there every game he could. He wanted to prove his worth to everyone that was watching. Wilbon, what do you make of Jordan's remarks? I've known of these remarks for 40 years. I've known of his feelings for 40 years. It's a great conversation and it's a great one to have with Tariko. And I'm glad NBC's doing them and people who aren't as familiar with Jordan, younger audiences get to be familiar with how Michael Jordan

feels about the important elements of basketball. But this ain't breaking news, all right? All of the players of that era, all the guys on the dream team, yes, I'll speak for all of them. They think load management is garbage, because most of them went out there and they played 80 or more as often as they could. Michael did it all the time. So, no, those guys knew. that even the money paid then, which is a pittance of what is being paid to see a game now, people paid real money. They wanted to see them. They didn't want to hear that some trainers said, you should be out.

I don't want to hear that excuse. Jordan played like it was Broadway. You were going to the theater, and you got him, not the understudy. I totally agree with this. I mean, who is surprised that Michael Jordan doesn't like load management? He played 80 games or 82 games every single year. Right? Nobody in their right mind would compare him to Kauai Leonard or Joel M.B.

Michael Jordan studied the NBA that was being paced by Magic Johnson and Larry Bird, who never missed the game. So he was never going to miss a game. He used a very interesting word in the interview, though, and he used the word entertainment. Michael Jordan appreciates that professional sports is entertainment. He appreciates the obligation that he had, and they all. all have to the people who are, you know, buying tickets, even the people in the nosebleed section. Michael Jordan didn't think that basketball was just about basketball players, and he understood there were fans there.

And that, by and large, does not happen today. Today, people just think it's all about, today's players, look at the game they're playing, just that game, and they look at the money they're making, you know? And it's a little bit different now. So, I mean, obviously, you and I are going to applaud Michael Jordan, because nobody can't about the fans anymore. The guys are playing most of them, not all of them and most of them. Let's take a break. Still to come,

Drake May is great at going deep. We will ask Steve Young what it takes to have that success. We'll also ask him about Carson Wentz. Say he never pull himself out of a game. Tony, you know what? You know trainers and team physicians and all that have something to say?

Michael Jordan stared those guys down when they told him he wasn't going to play. He said, get out of here. Get out of here. He was like Max Schurzer telling him. manager to get away from the mound. Exactly. That's what he was like. Parton the Interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted

tea, hard iced tea. Please drink responsibly. Part of Happy... Welcome back to Pardon the Interruption, presented by Twisted Tea, hard ice tea. Part of Happy Hour. We've got NFL questions for our great friend, the man

who refused to be my placeholder when I kicked from the Los Angeles Express. All the fans quarterback, Steve Young, who looks like he's going to lead a bunch of people up a mountain in 15 minutes. Let's start with this. Carson Wentz got battered last week. He is now out for the year. He said today he was fine being left in the game and as a competitor was not going to remove himself from the game. What would it feel like, Steve, to remove yourself from a game? Well, you've got to be super careful, Tony, because the quarterback is paid way more than everybody else. Gets all the attention

and you're in a really tight spot where you need to be the toughest guy, at least the image of a toughest guy in the field so that you can gather people every week to come fight for you. And so as a quarterback, you can't beg off the field. You just can't.

Now, people get hurt and you've got to manage through that. But as a quarterback especially, you've got to be able to show everyone that you're willing to do whatever it takes to stay on the field. And that's what Carson's really, it's knee-jerk, flex is I'm staying on the field.

This is, you know, I'm not coming out. You might, I might be out for the season, but I'm still have the adrenaline running to me, and I can stay in for a little longer. And people actually on the team respect that. That's just the way football runs. Steve, while Carson Wentz was dealing with the

physical pain, Justin Fields was dealing with some emotional pain and revealed that he found himself on the floor of his closet, crying and praying for just one win, was difficult to hear. How'd that strike you?

I mean, it's super vulnerable, right? Which I appreciate. It resonates the pain of losing. And, you know, you've got the owner jabbing at them. You got the coach who won't commit to them. Your teammates are staring at you. I remember times when, you know, you're at the grocery store in line and the clerk's like, you know, ladies like, what do you think of 49?

Oh, Steve Young sucks. And then you get on the radio and you're going home and listen to the radio and the song. you're like, what do you think about the 49ers? Steve Young sucks. You know, it's like, where can I go to be safe? And the closet might be the safest place to go, right? Because I remember I finally turned to the classical station because I'm like, they don't care about the 49ers

in the classical station. And then box overture number five ends. And it's like, what do you think of 49ers? Steve Young sucks. You're like, there's nowhere you can go. And so in some ways, it's very metaphorical. What he had to go to the closet to cry because that's how painful it was.

is. And that does resonate. I mean, it seems weird, but I can see how that can, you know, things get that hard. Let's go to a happier quarterback question. I'm going to ask you about Drake May and his success throwing the deep ball. Not everybody, even quarterbacks who are pretty damn good, have success connecting deep, Steve. What's the secret sauce? There are quarterbacks who are very, accuracy is in my mind. you can be slightly more accurate by working at accuracy,

but you either have a gift of accuracy or you don't. And along the edges, you can get slightly better. And the really most accurate quarterbacks in the world throw with their fingers, their fingertips. At the end of the throw, they've still got that ability to kind of guide and direct. And I call them finger throwers, right? And then there's arm throwers. And I know you're going to be like, what's the difference?

You can see it. It's like their whole arm is kind of, their fingers aren't really as fine-tuned. I don't know how else to put it. Drake may, the long ball, the short ball, the crossing route, all are part of accuracy. And usually if you're really accurate like Drake is, then you're going to be accurate on the long ball. Because if you see, think about it, the best as he lets the long ball go, his fingers right at the end are the guide. And that's how it comes out between.

You can almost see it as smoother. Justin Herbert, smoother. And that's that accuracy. That's where your fingers are really in control, where if you're arm throw, or your fingers never really get in the space, the ball to kind of guide it. You're never as accurate. You never will be in as much as you work at it. It's fascinating.

You want to give a masterclass in that. Honestly, it's just fascinating. Let me get to the last question. Lamar Jackson is coming off a hamstring injury tomorrow night. As a mobile quarterback, how can you trust that the hamstring will be there for you when you need it? I know, I never had a hamstring. Knock on wood.

You know, I'm too old to try to get one now. I think you're talking about elite athletes that their body has been their tool since they were little. So the connection to your brain kind of feels like, how does it feel? Now, it's not right. It's not right. It's not right. And so when you finally get, and look, physical therapy, athletic trainers and rehabilitation, they're really good at this kind of stuff.

They test and they can test the muscle and kind of see that it's ready to kind of get tested on the field. But as you know, nobody can replicate what's happening on the field. Now, I think with Lamar, he's getting becoming such a more sophisticated passer. I'm loving the transformation I'm watching that he can protect his hamstring. He doesn't have to. He'll be more normal, more human now. He won't be superhuman speed. And that's fine for Lamar's game.

Just get back there, tear him up with the throws. And then he'll still be able to move around. But you never know. You get into a game, Tony, and you make a move, you're like, oh, no. Oh, not a cat. Like, it does happen, and you've got to be careful. Pleasure as always, Steve. Thank you so much for being with us.

Well, Tony, I would explain the throwing thing if you wanted to come up the mountain with me. And one week, one week with a tie and this week going up the mountain, let's take one. It's a long story. I have a long, deep story that I can tell you. If it's a sad story of why I don't have a tie right now, but just let it be for this. Just give me the pass. Give me the hall pass. It's okay.

You've got it. When we come back, Wilbon and I dig into last night's frozen frenzy. And the bucks were at home, but Yon has still traveled to get the win over the Knicks last night. Tony, Steve did conduct a master class for 15 years. 15 years of throwing a pass. It's really something to hear him talk about the figure. Pardon the interruption is presented by the refreshing taste of twisted tea, hard ice ice, hard ice, tea. Please drink responsibly. Part of Happy Hour. Happy time, people. Happy 38th birthday Andy Dalton.

Dalton was a second round pick out of TCU by the Bengals in the 2011 draft. In his first four seasons, Dalton went to the playoffs. Cincinnati didn't win any of those games, but it looked like Dalton could be a star. He stayed with Cincinnati through 2019, but they were no longer a playoff team. Dalton was 2 and 11 as a starter that year. Then he went to Dallas, where he mostly backed up Dak Prescott. Dalton went four and five as the Cowboys started when Prescott got hurt. Dalton went from Dallas to Chicago, from Chicago to New Orleans, from New Orleans to Carolina, where he has backed up Bryce Young, though he's one and six as a starter there, including a lost last Sunday to Buffalo. It is a long lucrative career, if not a glorious one.

No, but Tony, if you're coachable and you can play some, you can stick around. You can stick around as a backup quarterback and hold that clipboard for more than 15 years. There's so many examples of it. And Andy Dalton is certainly one of them. Yeah, do you remember from Chicago at all? Oh, sure. For Justin Fields. Backed up Justin Fields, absolutely. All right. Happy anniversary, Clay Thompson. On this day, seven years ago, Thompson broke Steph Curry's NBA record by hitting 14 threes in only 27 minutes of playing time in an early season. and beatdown of your bulls. Thompson tied the NBA record for threes in one half with 10, and Golden State set another with 17 threes in the first half.

Steve Kerr later said, quote, I didn't realize what was happening record-wise. Then I heard Clay say, two more, two more. That's when I realized I didn't know who held the record, so I asked Steph, do you have the record? And he goes, yeah. At that point, the guys are just feeding Clay every time, unquote. Thompson left the Warriors for the Mavericks last season. and he is struggling now, averaging just nine points and shooting 28.6% from three.

Those numbers are totally unfamiliar for Clay Thompson. I root for Clay Thompson. I know he can pull out of this. I hope he has another year plus of greatness in him, Tony, because I think the Mavericks, despite all the tumult of the last year, I think they're on to something, but Clay Thompson's got to be a real part of that. I hope he is.

So you don't think he's done? You don't think that? Tony, I'm biased. I hope he isn't. I hope there's another burst. It's early. He can shoot himself out of it. We've seen him do it.

Sure. Sure. Happy trails to the NHL's frozen frenzy. All 32 teams were in action last night, and Wilbon, I will start by highlighting yours. The Blackhawks beat the senators behind Connor Bedard's first NHL hat trick. Jack Eichl scored twice on his birthday as the Golden Knights beat the Hurricanes. Leon Drysidal and Connor McDade.

David combined for three goals as the Oilers gave the mammoth and L. And Bobby Brink showed off some smooth stick work as the flyers topped the penguins in a shootout. How about that? We talked hockey. I was still at Blackhawks had seven goals last night. A little worried that it would take Connor Bader this long into the career to come up with his first hat trick. But it's early. He's young. Let's go Blackhawks. Yeah, I tuned in for a little while, honestly, because. because I wanted to see Sidney Crosby.

Because I think Sidney Crosby is one of the 10 greatest players of all time, and I just want to see him. Let's go to the big finish. Let's do it. The Bucks beat the Knicks. Is that significant? Well, they were 0 for three against the Knicks last year. You don't want to keep that up in conference?

You know, you don't. So it is a big deal. The Lions and Aidan Hutchinson agreed to a four-year contract extension. Is that a big deal? It's $141 million guaranteed. It's the highest non-quarterbacker. guarantee in football. Bengals' quarterback Joe Flacco has a shoulder issue. He's up in the air against the Bears on Sunday. Your thoughts? He just lost to a backup quarterback last week in Baltimore,

so I'm not going to start throwing a party yet. Steve Kerr says Jonathan Kaminga has earned a starting role moving forward. You're surprised by that? I am a little bit. I sort of thought he was trade bait over the summer, and I sort of thought they didn't get along on that world personally. So yeah, I'm a little surprised. one. Your three and old Bulls host the Kings. He's smelling another win. I am, Tony. I love what I've seen, small sample size, from pace and defense and a young core, even without Kobe White, is playing really well. So I know De Rosen and Levine are going to want some revenge exactly, but I feel good about the Bulls right now. We're out of time. We'll try to do better the next time.

I'm Tony Kornhoeffer. I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow. Nuckleheads. And now, here's Ernie, Kenny, Shack, and Chuck.