PTI - What is the MOST Interesting Aspect of the Porzingis Trade?

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser discuss the Kristaps trade, the Dallas Mavs, and the NBA draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, sports fans, the ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network and service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional calls. Visit activate.esPN.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN all in one place. Sign up or activate now. Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon. Tony, a California cabin got burglarized. Turned out to be a bear and a cub. Tony Kornheiser.

Brian Erlacker and Rick Russell? Bear and a cub? I like that combination. One is in the Hall of Fame, my buddy Brian Urlacker and the other. Rick Russell, you know he won 20 games once? And he also won like 19 and 18 and 17. Tony, nobody wins 20 anymore. Rick Russell won 20 for us one year.

Yeah, but not anymore. That's the whole point. If he pitched now, he'd be happy with 14, like all the rest of them are. Welcome to PTI, boys and girls. In today's episode, Kyrie Irving signs up for years with the Mavs. Two young baseball stars forget what out it is, and Jay Billis joins us from the NBA draft. But we begin today with the Celtics trading away another piece of their championship puzzle,

Christaps Porzingis, to Atlanta, in a three-way deal with the Nets and getting back George Nying and a second round pick. Just the other day, the Celtics traded Drew Holiday. As a result of both trades, the Celtics will save $180 million

in luxury taxes. Wilbon, what is the most interesting angle here? The Celtics trading Porzingis, the Hawks acquiring Porzengis, or the Nets now having five first round picks tonight? No, you said it already in the lead. It's the Celtics saving, in terms of tax and salary, $180 million by getting rid of Porzingas.

And Porzengis is going to go to Atlanta, and my over, under for the number of games he plays next year is 38, because that's all he's going to plan. He's played more than 57 games, I think, once in the last, like, eight years. He's not going to play. He played enough for the Celtics to really help them win and was vital part to their championship. I give you some credit for that because when a lot of us are saying, I don't know, you went full in with Porzingis and helping them win a championship, good for you.

That's over. So the Celtics decided to move on. We know their restructure. They've got to save some money. These are new owners. It's not with Grossbeck. These guys don't necessarily want to pay two players, you know, $300 million.

I'm sorry, $600 million. So there can be more dealing to come from the Celtics. We're not sure of that. But this answer to this question is Porzingis being dealt out and the saving of $180 million. So I'm going to sort of agree, but I'm going to go at it a little bit differently. The most interesting thing to me is what the Celtics are doing. Because, Mike, it seems to me they are giving up on next year. They know that Jason Tatum with a torn, is it, this ACL or Achilles?

Achilles. I think it's his. Achilles. Achilles. Achilles. They know he's going to be out all of next year. They just traded two other starters, Holiday and Porzingis. And they picked up in return to guys Simons and Nyingang who are on expiring contracts.

So they're probably not going to be in Boston when Tatum gets back. I want to know what Boston is going to look like when Tatum gets back. And the reason it's the most interesting thing to me is because they're just one year away from winning a championship. You know, that is a big deal to me. So I think that's a big deal. I would just mention I'm over my head with the five first round picks for the Nets because all I know is Cooper Flagg and I don't know anybody else. I guess that's a bonanza, Mike, when you consider, you know, they could package a couple of them

and make trades right now tonight. You could. But I don't know how deep the draft is. Does the draft go to 27? Because they got 22, 26, and 27. Does it go that deep? Tony, I don't know. Here's how deep recent drafts have been.

Somebody got a guy named Yokic in the second round and somebody got a guy named Brunson in the second round. So I don't know that this draft is at deep either. Real quickly, too. That's a way's back. The Celtics were looking at a two-year window. That's all they were looking at. They were going to have to do this anyway,

but they lose the second year because of Tatum and the injury. It's weird. And I love poor Zingis, you're right. But he's an itinerant now. He floats from team to team. He doesn't stay anywhere. Doesn't produce. He's not, he's Joe L.M.B. He's not healthy. Let's stay in the NBA. Go to the Dallas Mavericks. They have extended Kyrie Irving for three years after Irving declined his player option to make this deal. The other day, the Maverick signed Daniel Gafford for three more years. Tonight, they are expected to draft Cooper Flag with the number one pick. Wilbon, what do you see in Dallas's future? I see them being a serious contender year after next, because I don't know how soon Kyrie can get back. I know there are all these. optimistic, you know, discussions about and predictions and forecasts about him coming back in January.

I don't know that I'm buying that. And Kyrie knows his own body and he knows he doesn't want to rush back at this stage of his career. But when Kyrie Irvin gets back in there and he is for Dallas, what he was for Dallas for, you know, a year and a half, you know, getting to the finals. And, and, of course, then the next year, it looked like he was going to be, he was being great again. And you got flag and you got Gafford. Oh, you got a guy named Clay Thompson and you got, you know, PJ Washington. Now you got, oh, wait, a Hall of Famer name Anthony Davis.

They got a roster, Tony, and they got a coach. The big thing for me is whether Jason Kidd is going to be there. I still wonder Jason Kidd is going to be the coach of the Knicks. But that's another whole story. But they got the assets, the human resources to be really, really good. And if all those guys are healthy in the lineup and if Flag is just, if Flag is the third best player on that team, they can look at Oklahoma City and say,

let's go, drop the gloves now. We probably could not disagree more on this one. What do I see in Dallas's future? I see them firing the GM, Nico Harrison, because of that insane trade, getting rid of Luca Donchitz. What I don't see, and here's where we do agree, I don't see Jason Kid coaching there. I agree with you.

I think he's going to Knit. One of his top assistants left the other day, another top assistant that's being reported is publicly contemplating leaving. That seems to me, Mike, a precursor for Jason Kidd. Agreed. Kyrie Irving. So here's what Kyrie Irving did. He's out.

We don't know when he's going to come back. That's not an Achilles, right? Or it's his, it is an ACL. It is. It is an Achilles too. I thought his was an ACL. All right. Okay.

It doesn't matter. They're both. It's an ACL. ACO for Kyrie. It's an ACL for Kyrie, yes. So he's going to come back. nobody knows when, not at the beginning of the season. It's a very serious injury.

You don't know what he's going to be like when he comes back. And he's 33 years old at this point. I think, Mike, I think he took the long money in this contract because maybe he knows something that we don't know. You mentioned Anthony Davis. What does his history tell you? History tells you that he's not healthy. And can Cooper Flagg be great right away?

Maybe. But he's 18 years old. He'd be 19 in December. He's going to go up against... Men, Mike, I think Dallas has a lot of names, and that's all they got is names. I'm not sure that their future is anything but uncertain at the moment. It is uncertain, Tony, but next year, not this year. That's why I said give Kyrie some time.

I agree with that. He's not going to come out and be Kyrie right away coming off a serious injury. Next year, and they've got to be healthy, but you can say that about every team. You can say that about Jason Tatum's team and Halliburton's team. You can say that about everybody. I think they got one shot in them. And you did, too, by the way, when they first made that deal. You said that Dallas was going to be okay short-term.

This year, I said. Maybe not. This year. Let's move to two cases of absent-mindedness in baseball last night. In the first, O'Neill Cruz of the Pirates was pulled for failing to run hard to first. Cruz said he lost track of the outs and thought the force and second was the third out inning over, okay? but Cruz had also casually blundered a fielding chance last week. And last night's second case, and this kills me, I was watching it live.

Pete Crowe Armstrong on my Cubs, hauled in what he thought was a third out deep in center field at defense in St. Louis, but it was only the second out. And he allowed would prove to be the winning run to score from second base on a sack fly, Tony, which laps was worse. You know, it's Pete Crow Armstrong. There's no doubt about that because it led directly to a runner coming in from second base. Okay?

He makes a catch at the wall. He stops looking at the field because he obviously thinks it's the third out and the guy comes in. It proves to be the winning run because St. Louis wins by one. That's the run. When it happened, it's 8.5 St. Louis in the fourth inning, but ultimately it's 8.7. So that's more costly. Now, what Cruz did looked worse because Cruz, he should have gone in the first. He's fast. He could have gotten on. If he gets on, maybe he comes around the score. But even if he comes around the score, and that's speculative. At that point, it would be 7 for Milwaukee. It ultimately ends up that Milwaukee wins 9 to 3. So we're just wondering what would happen with him. What we see with Pete Crowe Armstrong, as you well know, is it has a direct bearing on the end of the game and the final score.

And maybe more than that. Look, Pete Crow Armstrong, who I have on a very short list of candidates, for National League MVP has been a wonder for the Cubs. I tune in every night to see Pete Crowe Armstrong. Field hit, run the basis, all of it. But he made this catch last night. And I'm wondering, whoa, is it me? I think this is the second out. And you see the St. Louis Cardinal, I think it was when,

just tearing around third. And I'm like, oh, my God, he forgot, Tony. Yeah. This is the Cardinals. The Cardinals are chasing the Cubs. It's a one-run game. And suppose you get to the end of the season in that division, which is tight with the Cubs, Cardinals and Brewers, suppose it's a one-game difference.

Oh, my God, I love this kid, but that's an enormous mistake. Enormous. Your Cubs have lost five out of six lately. Let's take a break coming up. Ace Bailey has made headlines for avoiding team visits. But what's he like as a player, we will ask Jay Billis. It's a mystery. We'll also ask him, Jay, that is, why recent drafts have gotten so much wrong in retrospect.

Yeah, I'm dying over that game. The NBA draft starts just hours from now. We are pleased to welcome back our great friend, ESPN College Basketball and NBA draft analysts, the dashing. Mr. Jay Bill is dressed like an adult in a tie. It makes me happy. Let's start with this. What do you see as Cooper Flag's floor and what do you see as Cooper Flag's ceiling?

The floor is really high. I think his ceiling is a all-NBA, a perennial all-star, you know, kind of a face of the league, if you will, that kind of player because he's got that kind of ability. And his defense is every bit as potent,

if not more so than his offense, with his size, his length, than athleticism. And it's really his maturity level. And then his level of competitiveness at age 18, is honestly kind of hard to fathom. A lot of these guys are competitive.

I get that. But he's on the top tier of competitors that I've watched over the last 30 years. And I'm not saying he's the best one, but he's right there with the best of them. And especially at that age. Like Duke's never had a freshman as good or as accomplished as Cooper Flag.

Not one. They've had guys that maybe you could argue Grant Hill or Kyrie Irving were more talented in certain areas, but nobody was as, complete and as accomplished as a freshman as Cooper Flag was.

Well, we seem to know a lot more about Cooper Flag than we do Ace Bailey, Jay, who has decided or his people have decided to take him the route of mystery. But you know about him. What are you seeing in him as a player as we finally go into this draft tonight? Ace Bailey

is almost as young as Cooper Flagg. He's just 18 years old. And as far as shot making, making difficult shots, He's the best in this draft. Really good off the dribble and getting into his shot. He can make tough shot after tough shot. And you go back, watch tape of his games against, like, Indiana or Northwestern,

where he had 39 points and 38 points, respectively. Even season NBA players were watching that going, man, like, there's nobody else in college to make shots like that. Outside of Dylan Harper of Rutgers and Cooper Flagg of Duke, Ace Bailey is the most talented player in this draft. Does he go number three? like I think he's the third most talented prospect in this draft. Does he go number three to Philly? I don't know. I would not be surprised if Philly took VJ. Edgecombe of Baylor.

But if you're looking for a super talented offensive player that's got length, athleticism, and can make every shot in the book, it's Ace Bailey. It's just a little puzzling why he would turn down all of these workouts and really basically say to the league, I'm okay going six, seven, or eight, because that's given up millions upon millions of dollars in rookie contract salary. I don't have a problem with him doing that. That's fine. But when he schedules a workout, he's got to show up.

That's sort of a level of professionalism that even at 18 he's got to have, and he needed to show that. Jay, for decades, we could go 30, 35 college players deep into the second round and know everything about them, not so much now, particularly with internationals included. But tell us, because you've been studying this, of someone who the rest of us are going to say is unknown who you like? Well, there are a few of them.

I'd start with A. Sanuel of Georgia. He's long and athletic, a great offensive rebounder, can guard multiple positions, really good in transition, excellent finisher at the basket plays above the rim. But there are three three and D guys that I think are going to be really interesting to watch in this year's draft. One is Carter Bryant of Arizona, who's got a seven-foot wing span. excellent defensively and can knock down open threes. He only average seven points a game. The other's Rescher Fleming of St. Joseph's.

He's got a 7-5 wing span, another guy who shoots 39, 40 percent from three and can stretch a defense. And the last one is the mystery man. It's Cedric Coward of Washington State, started at a D-3 school, went to eastern Washington, did well, transferred to Washington State, and was about to transfer to Duke before he went into the draft. And I think you could see him. It's possible he could sneak into the line.

lottery. So those guys, it shows that you don't have to average 25 or 20 points a game to catch the attention of NBA teams. If you're a, if you're a three and D guy, look, those three I just mentioned, you can find your way onto a roster and really help teams win. We saw that. We've seen that with, you know, teams like Oklahoma City and Indiana and all that, guys that can help you win that aren't necessarily leading scorer types. This makes me so happy because Wilbon said, tell us about people we are not familiar with. And I don't know any of those people. So that was very good.

We will get you out of here on this. We look back on some drafts over a period of time and we go, whoa, if we redrafted today, we would do it completely different. After all of the evaluations that people put into these drafts, why isn't this more of a science than it is a speculation? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think we could look back at every draft and we would, do it differently because most of the prospects are 18, 19 years old. They're not finished products.

There's not a ton of data on them. So you gather as much information, as much intelligence to make it sound more hoity tooty as you can. And then you try to make a sound decision. But there's no way to measure this. And I think when you look at the NFL draft, I would venture to guess they make as many mistakes as are made in basketball. And they have five years oftentimes to look at these guys. It's just not an exact science. I think what I started doing this 23 years ago is my 23rd draft for ESPN. I probably was mistakenly

thinking that I knew after doing all this work. Now I just believe. And I think that's probably true of every NBA front office. Like you have beliefs, but you don't know. Because like hands up all those who thought when Shea Gilgis Alexander was drafted 11th that he was a future

MVP. I don't know that anybody saw that. It's certainly a happy happening. but the one thing we know, the one thing that's certain is we're going to be wrong about certain players. And you just have to accept it and do the best you can. Our great pleasure, Jay. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, Jay.

Appreciate it, man. Thank you. NBA draft coverage starts at 7 p.m. Eastern on ESPN. Let's take one last break, but still to come, the fever say see ya to a player for whom they had high hopes. great player too. And the once mighty Mets, they're in a full swoon. They're struggling. Yeah, the draft on it. And nobody had Janus. Nobody had Janus onto the Gumpo being a champion and an MVP either. Happy time, people. Happy 27th birthday Desmond Bain. Until last week, Bain was a starting guard opposite John Morant on the Memphis Grizzlies. Bain was drafted with the 30th overall pick in 2020 out of TCU by the Celtics,

but the Celtics traded Bain to Memphis on draft night. This past season, Bain averaged 19.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, and 5.3 assists. None of that matters now, because Memphis traded Bain to Orlando for a couple of players and some draft picks. Suddenly, there is optimism that Orlando can make a big move in the East because Bain gives the magic what they lack, three-point shooting. Bain's a career of 41% shooter from three. Last year, Orlando was the worst three-point shooting team in the NBA.

Yeah, with Indiana and Boston not healthy, I do expect Orlando to slide up. The big move may take a little longer, but I love Bain going there. Love the move for Orlando. Happy anniversary, San Antonio Spurs on this day 26 years ago. Tim Duncan scored 31 points, and the Spurs defeated the Knicks to win the first of what would become five NBA championships. The core of that team was Duncan, who was named finals MVP, David Robinson, Sean Elliott, and Avery Johnson. The Spurs became the first of the four ABA teams who joined the NBA in the merger to win an NBA title. Denver became the second a few years ago.

Neither the Nets nor the Pacers, who were multiple ABA champions, have won in the NBA, though both have appeared in the NBA finals twice. The thing the Spurs didn't do was go back to back, but they should have done that in 13 and 14. Ray Allen prevented that from happening, but the Spurs did a one in 13 as well, Tony. It was on their racket, as we say. Happy Trails, DeWana Bonner. The Indiana fever released Bonner today after failing to find a trade partner. 37-year-old is a two-time title winner and was lauded as a big off-season pickup

after following Coach Stephanie White over from the sun. Bonner began the season as a starter, was soon moved to the bench, and then set out the last five games for personal reasons. She said in a statement that, quote, the fit did not work out. By the way, the fever beat the storm last night, but Caitlin Clark has been struggling. One for 23 from 3 with 22 turnovers in our last three games. Bonner, by the way, has a Hall of Fame resume. She does.

Let's get to the big finish as quickly as we can. The Oilers traded Evander came to the Canucks. Does that make sense? Yeah, save some money. He seems to be slowing down and step back. Yeah, it makes sense. The Mets have lost 10 of 11. You've got to be concerned.

Yeah, they're sinking. Fred Van Vleet and Rockets agreed a two-year extension worth $50 million, big deal. Wow, the Rockets declined at $44 million. He was old. People thought you're going to trade him. Not getting traded now. Justin Verlander fell to 0 and 5 last night. Your boy, Max Scherzer returns tonight to face the Guardians.

Your thoughts? My thoughts are I'm rooting for the warrior guard. Of course I am. Last one, Colin Marikawa, looking for a new caddy for the side. second time this season. Your reaction. If I can take a cart, I want to do it. You know I love more cowl. I'd love to be his caddies. But you can't catty in a cart. They're not going to let you catty in a cart. No. I like to. We're out of time. Trying to do better the next time. I'm Tony Kornheiser. I'm Mike Wilbon. Same time tomorrow, knuckleheads, and now more amazing sports

commentary. Just wait. You'll see.