Puck Soup - 2010 NHL Draft, Revisited

Episode Date: April 30, 2020

The boys take a trip back to 2010 to reexamine that season's NHL Draft, including reselecting the Top 10, the biggest busts and the notable trades. Also, we discuss that playoff plan that somehow put the Sabres in the postseason; players returning to training centers; the Blackhawks fire their president; that "salary cap exempt player" proposal; Blink-182's best song bracket; Dennis Rodman and hockey proxy; and an overrated/underrated/favorite/least favorite on sitcom dads! 

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wischinski, the SPN. I imagine we're probably re-editing the last six episodes of the last dance to try to make it a 25-part series. probably an easy thing to do. Just just make it more, just add in more like shots of MJ wistfully

looking out on the horizon, you know, add something to the runtime so we can keep stretching this thing out because ratings, baby, it's huge. Yeah, I'm Ryan Lambert. I don't, what, I don't know. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic and I would watch a special five-hour director's cut of The Last Dance that only talked about Michael Jordan's eyes and what's up with that and why are we not talking about the fact that he's his eyes are weird colors and I find it very distracting. Yeah, I was trying, Ruby pointed that out too and I don't know. I thought maybe cigar smoke might have been like they were just stained over time by cigar smoke.

I actually like had to Google it and apparently it's been a thing for a while and people are concerned it could be an illness or it could be related to some poor habits or it just could be other things. But it's... He was rich and famous in the 90s and famously lived pretty hard. Yeah. But I mean, you've got to live pretty hard in the 90s for it to like still have the red eye 30 years later for your big documentary. I would think. But maybe I'm, yeah.

To have your eyes look like you are in the early stages of trying to shoot B, beams out of them. Yeah. It's kind of an issue. It's like watching a Marvel movie where you're like, oh, this guy has a superpower of some sort because, yeah. I mean, it does. You guys are making lots of money.

Could you not CGI that or something so that I can listen to what this guy's saying? Can that not be distracted? Yeah. The Rodman stuff was great revisiting that. Yeah. I haven't got to that yet. I've only got the first two. I love how Jordan was like, oh, the reason he's straightened up and flew right was

because he came and smoked a cigar. with me and I knew he was appall. Okay, Mike. Yeah, you're the leadership genius. And that's why a week later, you had to fly to Las Vegas in the middle of the night to get him out of a hotel room. Yeah. Your leadership unparalleled. The, I mean, the two Robin things this week that I found awesome.

One, obviously, Bill Simmons taking it on the chin from the entirety of the internet. All time. take by saying, Dennis Rodbin's not an interesting person. Yeah, this from the guy who thinks talking about rounders for the seven billion times is fucking interesting, right? Like, Dennis Rodman is the single most interesting person. I mean, at least athlete. You can make a case for other people, the most interesting man in the world guy, for

example, he's pretty interesting. It's right in his name. Yeah, I mean, you'd say what you will about his sort of Hank Scorpion, but Elon Musk is probably a really interesting guy, just to see what was going on. Real dumb guy. I don't know. Interesting. Yeah, but I mean, don't you think that Elon Musk's house is probably filled with a bunch of

Peewee's big adventure, like Rube Goldberg contraptions where he presses a button, and then 17 things happen. I think it's just filled with like Lick and Morty shirts. It's a Tesla executive walks in, and there's Elon Musk with all his little pickle Rick figures. I'm pickle rig. He has the world supply of Sejuan sauce. He's just stocked up. So that was one thing was Bill Simmons being completely wrong and saying that

Dennis Robin wasn't interesting. But the other thing was the idea of like the classic, what if this athlete was doing these things during a different media era? and like in a in a social media meme era what would Dennis Rodman had been and I don't know like I feel it's hard for me to figure it out because I feel like at one at what in one way he might have been like the meme king like we would have all loved him because of his Rodmanist shit like it would have just been huge photoshopping Rodman hair on people and things like that on the other hand I mean, it could be a thing where he would be portrayed as a tryhard.

Yeah. And people wouldn't like him. That is the correct answer. He would have been like such a social media guy that you would have been like, oh, he's doing this all for social media attention. He would, you know, if we lived in a world with no social media, he'd never act like this. And so you'd kind of roll your eyes at it. The beauty of him is that he did it in an era where like if you wanted attention, if you wanted to be on somebody's screen, you had to actually do something so outrageous that the 6 o'clock news would show up to find out who you were going to marry.

And then you showed up in a wedding dress and married yourself. And that was like on the 6 o'clock news instead of actual news. Like you had to bump off the like 30 minutes of most important stuff that happened that day away in order to get yourself attention. And he did it. It would never, he would never have worked in a social media world. We wouldn't have let it work. Who is the hockey proxy for Dennis Rodman as far as an outlandish personality? So being an effective player?

Come on. There's no. Well, there was that one guy one time who said getting pucks in deep wasn't that important. Yeah. That's the NHL's Dennis Rodman. He was then immediately kicked out of the league. He taped his stick up the opposite way of everybody else. Everybody got really upset with him.

I mean, don't you think that, don't you think Avery? came close? No. He may have come close to, like, being the NHL margin. Yeah, exactly. Like, by degrees, yeah. But by, like, you know,

like if you're comparing one to one, absolutely not. Yeah. Not even fucking close. That's like saying, like, what, what's the, what Canadian movie is the equivalent of the Avengers?

And it's like, oh, that beach commerce TV movie was the, you know, probably the closest we came. But no, It's trailer park boys Oh by the week Seeing you're trailer park boys

I had to make a comparison To the most Canadian thing I've ever seen in my column this week And I chose Gord Downey's cameo On trailer park boys Would that be accurate, Sean? That's pretty Canadian Yeah that's

But Avery had that sort of We're putting up with this shit Ancillary shit Because he's an effective player thing That Rodman had like that's that's the only proxy that I can see. Well, I mean, no, Dennis Rodman was the best offensive player in the league for a while. Sean Avery was probably not even the best pest in the league.

So, you know, again, like, I don't think, I don't think there's any real comparison there. And doing that is like, oh, who's, you know, who's the dent? The guy does not exist. I think the closest you'd get would be if you, unless you went back to like the 70s where there were some actual like vaguely and like a gratuni-loody type of guy that was actually, you know, like refusing to play because of the phase of the moon and stuff like that. Like that maybe is where you could get something that was comparable. But not the same level of player. Like that was the other thing. Like you're, that was the beautiful thing about rhyming.

You're looking at the guy going like, why does anyone put up? with this and it's like he's and then you watch him play defense and you go all right right right yeah sure um i won't do the impression because early but bridge gooff no yeah it's it's again that all that all felt extremely manufactured all the stuff oh i don't know you think you think him waxing about the universe and and chinese tigers tigers in front of the camera was was was oh i disagree i I think that's him. I think that's bridge. Okay.

Where do you follow on that, Sean? I think the first time was probably legitimate, and then he saw the reaction and kind of steered into it a little bit. Okay. I don't think he was a completely normal guy who was playing a character, but I think he was like, oh, people like that. Okay, I'll go back to that well. That's a fair comment.

The thing about Rodman and defense, by the way, you know, there's a lot of great stuff in the documentary, but the segment where he's talking about learning how to rebound and, you watching how the ball comes off the rim and knowing exactly the rotation on Jordan's shots to know exactly where to be and shit like that, that was fucking fascinating. That was like, that was like magician's secrets kind of shit for me to like climb it to his head and see how the, like, he, because he was on another level as a rebounder because he wasn't seven, seven foot one. You know, like he was just a guy who jumped really high and knew exactly where to be and was an incredible defender. He was a very fucking unique player. And I feel like,

Again, there's like, what's great about this documentary in some ways is that it bubbles back up to the surface things that were amazing back in the 1990s around this Bulls team that have sort of become self-parody. Like, Jordan's become a self-parity. He became a fucking meme himself, the crying meme. You know, Rodman became the guy who met with, you know, North Korea. Like, to revisit why these guys were important is, has been great. It's been really good. Yeah, I think everybody agrees. It's a, you know, to some extent or another, it's a good dog.

Again, like, I think it's increasingly the problem with the documentary is Michael Jordan taking credit for everything. Oh, he's the reason Scotty Pippin was good and all this shit. Like, okay, sure. But, yeah, I mean, it's fucking really good. And it's very entertaining, if nothing else. So, you know, storytelling deficiencies aside. The only sports documentary trope I'm getting sick of because it's just, they've done it every episode, I think, is here's a game. where things weren't good, but then Michael said, I'm going to make them good.

And he won the game and everybody was like, that's our Michael. Oh, sure. He berated everybody and is a total psychopath, but that's actually leadership and we love it. I loved what he fucking called me a huge piece of shit loser who didn't belong in the NBA. Every day in practice. I loved it. Right. But enough about Tony Koo coach.

All right, let's get to some hockey shit because there's been some, as As per usual in this pandemic, every day has bought forth crazy, wacky ideas. This one from Mark Spectre yesterday blew up the internet. And by the way, do any of us work for sports net anymore? I don't think so. Lambert, you never did. Dan Goes Brown, do you? I no longer do.

No. Can I, I'm not trying to put myself over as the Michael Jordan of editors, you know, to use a recent example. but like the story that this nugget was in was area arenas preparing for hockey games or some shit like was the headline and inside the fucking story was oh by the way they want to expand the playoffs to six division teams and the buffalo sapers would be a playoff team like how is that not the fucking headline and I couldn't find it because it's and even that like the part we're going to talk about is like two paragraphs of the entire like people are going to hear us talk about this. Not exactly near the top. Yeah, they're going to be like, what context are they leaving? No, it's literally two paragraphs that's just tossed in there, almost as if we've all been hearing and talking about this format already when I had, yeah, I agree with you. It was very weird.

I literally went to look for it and I was like, oh, it's not here. It can't be this. Can't be that. It took me a while. It's like, there was a story that was like Brady Cachuck. eager to get back on ice. And then in paragraph six, it was like, Brady Kachuk is a serial killer. It was just like, you've buried the lead in a pretty traumatic way.

By the way, Matt Kachukle is a serial killer. Brady's, well, I don't know. Brady's the more quiet one. Which Kachuk would be a serial killer? Keith? Yeah, I think Brady's a good answer for that just because, you know, it's the younger brother syndrome. And you're just, you know, if you're a serial killer, like you're not just out.

there being like, by the way, I do a lot of serial killer stuff all the time. Like Matt does. Hey, Drew Dowdy. Exactly. I have all these bodies in my fridge. Okay, so this was the idea. Quoting Mark Specter, assuming no regular season games get played, the most popular playoff scenario.

By the way, somebody from the league told me that most popular playoff scenario is a fucking stretch when it comes to this idea. is the following. The top six teams from each division meet in one city. They would open with a best of three series

between the one and two seats to decide a division winner. While the number three seed meets number six and number four meets number five for the right to keep playing. Under this scenario, the only current seventh place team

that may feel left out might just, you know, could, are the New York Rangers. They're one point behind the six-place islanders. Why are we going with points? instead of points percentage. In the Metropolitan Division, but the Islanders have played two more games.

There are no teams that could say the number six seed had the advantage of playing more games than them and that they were unfairly treated. Well, no, but they could say the Buffalo Sapers and Anaheim Ducks two sub-500 teams had been gifted playoff spots while the Rangers and Black Fox are not in the mix. It really undermines the integrity of this playoff series that's going to be played nine months after the season ended in a completely. empty arena after 62 games. Yeah, the integrity is the thing I'm really, I'm so upset about here. Oh, I feel so bad for the Rangers. It gives a shit. So, all right, here's, well, but, but I, see, I do care because if, if we're going to do the playoffs in whatever format, let's do it as well as possible. Like, it's, it's, it's all fake. It's all fake now. Like, but that's the point, though, if it's on the, I'm on the, I'm on the, I'm I'm on the team that says, I'm on the team that says you just take the 16 playoff teams as they would have been based on points percentage when you stop and just start the playoffs and you do a normal four round playoffs.

That's, that's my preferred outcome. But if they're going to expand it, this is where it gets weird. Because if, again, like we said, this specter piece, it's two paragraphs. We haven't left out any information of what he wrote. Right. if it's exactly the way he describes it, where you just take six teams from each division, that's insane.

Because not only are you leaving out two teams that would have more than enough points if they were just running the wrong division, but it's the New York Rangers and the Chicago Blackhawks. It's two of your most important markets. It's two of your biggest markets. Like only the NHL would come up with a system that screwed over two of its biggest fan bases in order to... I mean, Buffalo is a big TV market

and, you know, fine. But now, my, that was my first thought. My second thought is we have a crossover under normal circumstances where you can send, you can have extra wild cards from a division and you just send them over to the other division. If we said that the Rangers are the crossover, they go to the Atlantic, the Blackhawks are the crossover,

they go to the Pacific, then you wind up with a pretty, Like, that's a pretty decent group of 24. And that does get you the 24 best teams in terms of what the standing said. So I wonder if that's not what they're looking at. And it just didn't make that subtlety, didn't make it into the two paragraphs that Mark ended up writing. Because I can't see them, I can't see them just, like, it would be crazy to say under normal circumstances, we have a wild card that allows us to balance out the division so that good teams don't get left out.

But we're going to ignore that in this one case just so we can screw over two of our biggest U.S. markets. Yeah, and Lambert, to speak to your integrity thing, I agree. Like, the idea that we're going to try to maintain integrity in this situation is insane. But that's kind of the cad list for this, is we're trying to keep the divisions together. Like, that's their integrity play in the situation. And also, I don't doubt this is true because it does speak to the full. fucking catnip to Gary Betman, which is rivalries. Yes.

You know, if you keep the division. Of course. Right. But even then, what rivalry do you get by putting, by getting Anaheim into the playoffs? Anaheim's two biggest rivals are the Kings and the Sharks, and they wouldn't be in. You know, that. No, I agree. If you get the Sabres in under this format, they play the Leaf.

So that does give you a big rivalry matchup, but like you can do divisions and still do a crossover, like we have done every other year of. this playoff format. But if we're really talking integrity, though, like, you're a number three seed. You've hauled ass to make sure that you're not on the wild card bubble. Like, you've done the thing. You're in the top three. As a least fan, I question that.

But all right. All right. But point be, is that like, when you're in the top three, you're on a level of safety that doesn't exist for a wild card team, right? Like, the math is different. You've done well for yourself. The idea that you have to now play a... No, but let's look at the third place team.

The Leafs are three points up on the Panthers who have a game in hand. The stars are two points up on the Jets. The flames are one point up on the Canucks. The only team that's got a bit of a gap is the penguins are five points up on the hurricanes who have a game in hand. And again, that's five points in a full season. I don't think there's a clear distinction with any third place team that you would look at and go, they're way too good to be playing. No. No, no, no.

But that's not the point. Like, you're a third place team. I think that, that you've, you've won the bronze. Congratulations. Like, I feel like there should be some, I, what I'm saying is. In theory, in the reward is you get to play a six place team that's not very good. But that's the point. It's like, but, but then you're one hot, one, one good goalie game and a bad bounce in

overtime away from being eliminated by the fucking sabers. Yes, which would, uh, in the NHL playoffs. What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. Like, that's, that's true. talking about a three, it's a three game series. It's, come on. It's a five games series.

That's Alex Ovechkin. Like, the idea that you're, that you're like trying, well, you know, it's not really fair. Like, hockey is an inherently unfair sport. What, what, I can't remember the number now, but what, didn't, what, didn't somebody figure out it has to be like a best of 51 series to have the best team win 80% of the time? Like, that's crazy. Yeah. You know what, and if you're going to talk about unfair, and again, this is, this whole, whatever situation they end up with is going to be weird and have a ton of flaws and it's going to be unfair to somebody.

But if I'm the Blackhawks and I get, you know, let's say the Blackhawks of the Rangers don't get included in this system, or let's say they do a crossover and instead it's the Sabres who, you know, finished a couple of points behind the Canadians. Some team is going to be close and isn't going to make the cut. And that team is going to be sitting there going, wait a second, we played our whole season on the assumption it was going to be a 16 team playoff. We made roster moves. We made decisions based on the fact that we didn't think we were in the running. If we had no one that was going to be 24 teams, we would have done this or done that or, you know, treated the trade deadline differently. So it's not fair to that team because you sprung this whole new system on us that came out of nowhere. Like somebody's getting screwed here.

And, yeah, to your point, a third place team, try. Trust me, I've been a Maple Leafs fan my whole life. Any Leafs fan who has paid any attention knows with complete certainty that they would lose to the Sabres in this situation. Like, it's not even a question. Of course they're going to lose to the below 500 terrible Buffalo Sabres in a kind of playoffs here. Like, that's not even a question. It's just, you know, what's more fair? Do we determine the playoffs based on regular season games against crappy teams that don't want to be there?

Do we just start right now into whatever? Like there is no good solution. I just, even among all the bad solutions, this one is really bad. Except, can I throw my one possibility out there? Okay. Sure. Let's, all right, let me, let me get my big, let me get my whiteboard up. Oh.

All right. Why would the NHL, why in the world with the NHL create a expanded 2014 playoff system and still come up with something that excluded the Blackhawks and the Rangers. Like, yeah. So then there would only be seven teams that didn't make the playoffs. That means there'd be seven teams in the lottery. How many franchise players are there in this year's draft? Oh, that's right.

There's two. And what's the one thing about the lottery we're not going to be able to do this year? Oh, yeah, we're not going to be able to get everyone in a room to watch Gary Betman draw the ping pong balls. We're going to just have to take their word for it. wouldn't it be interesting if the Rangers and Blackhawks suddenly wound up in the lottery and just happened to get the two franchise players that are that are available wouldn't hmm no but see that was all planning a month in advance and that's not really an NHL thing but I think that to see under this scenario though because I also thought that the draft lottery

aspect of it was stupid because like wouldn't the Anaheim Ducks rather be a non-playoff team yeah but but but balled up but this is assuming no regular season games or play So I think the lottery would still be contingent on points percentage from the regular season, not playoff status. Well, again, it's all made up. Like, they're very clearly just going, uh, what if we, uh, what if we did this? What if we did that? And it's like, you haven't thought about any of this. Like, wouldn't you love to be part of the discussion?

Because you just know that like the discussion is like, all right, well, who's got to end in the Sabres guy? It's like, yeah, I have an idea. What if we just took the top six from every division? And then it's like, oh, interesting. And then the Blackhawks guy's like, okay, but what if we also did a crossover? And it's just every team choosing whatever benefits them personally. Yes, of course. And pretending like it's this, you know, I, man, I can only imagine what dumb thing they're going to eventually settle on is the grand compromise here.

Sean, to your point, like, why would, six teams at four different sites. so fucking 24 teams that sounds very unwieldy versus eight teams at 16 teams at two sites doesn't it like it just seems like we're so over-complicating this

like we're trying to play games in a pandemic well I think it would just be easier to have a traditional playoff I think the problem with your and also the problem with your two like how many how many ranks do you need

if you're hosting eight teams per site you know like that's a lot so I you know like I think that's just a logistical thing more than anything else it could be just yeah how much how much room do you have and how many games do you need to be playing at a time but if to Greg's point what's is there really that big a difference between six teams and eight teams uh it's about two yeah two two teams three three percent I will I will double check I will double check the math but I mean I'm not evolving hockey over here I'm a mathematician.

Yeah, that's a weird-ass idea. But to Sean's point, though, like, the thing I like about it is, if you don't have any regular season games, all the players to a man have said, we need to play some games before we jump into the playoffs, right? So, like, the idea that you do have these games, you know, a little couple practice games or whatever for guys. A little practice elimination hockey. Let's get warmed up as we. eliminate some of the 10 best teams in the league.

But if you want to think about last year's lightning and the we didn't play any meaningful games kind of thing, like they probably would have had the same argument if they jumped into the playoffs this time without playing any games beforehand. So at least the top teams get a little bit of practicing while the other teams are fighting for

their lives. So that's a good thing, I guess. Yeah, because I guess that's the other thing is this weird thing where the top two teams play each other in a series that doesn't really determine anything, but kind of does for seating or whatever. But it gives them something to do. It's busy work. Because otherwise, you should probably just do a thing, that other idea where you pick your opponent, like, if you wanted to do it that way. Like to decide the division winner.

Like, all right. I'm sure the Blues and Avalanche are really going to be going all out to hang that banner that says they won the weird central division in the pandemic. year. Yeah. The only team that cares about that is the capitals. Always,

always teach them. The Predators, too. Yeah, come on. The predators would be right on that. Yeah, that was a weird-ass idea.

Other news this week, the NHL appears to be targeting mid to late May for a return to practice facilities. I think that we can thank the NBA for this.

How fucking great was watching the NBA shit go down, where Georgia is opening up for business. business. And literally every NBA player is like booking tickets to Atlanta to go start working out in a gym. And Adam Silver asked me like, oh, shit. And then he's like, all right,

we'll open up the practice things all over if we can. Don't go to Atlanta. And so then the NHL seems to be kind of following suit on that. I reported something yesterday that I thought was real interesting, though. Like, they're very cognizant of the inequity of this where you're going to have places in the U.S. and Canada that aren't going to be open where players can't go to their facilities. They're still closed for mass gatherings and essential business stuff. And then you're going to have places that, you know, players are free to go, like probably like Dallas, for example. So the NHL, one thing that they're talking about with the PA is you can go to your practice facility, use all the equipment, get your injuries treated, do whatever. You just can't skate,

which is fucking bonkers, but that's one of the things that they're talking about. Okay, okay. I don't really see the point other than, like, I mean, these guys presumably have treadmills at home, right? Like, I think the only thing you would say is that, like, yeah, working with a training staff, for example, is now feasible or whatever, you know, but. Yeah. And also getting around the boys again, you know, not on Zoom. All the fellas, yeah. All the fellas. So that was one of the things that I thought was interesting. And again, like, I think they'll all cheat and get back on the ice and shit. And then it'll be like spy photographs from those fuckers in Boston, you know, with their cell phone cameras being like, you know, Charlie Coyle and David Kreachie on the ice at Warrior.

And then it gets on Twitter and then the ruins get, well, the ruins don't get in trouble because of Jeremy Jacobs. But, you know, it'll be a bad look. So there's that. Players are training to track. Do you think that, that's actually going to be a thing that happens by late May that they're going to get. go back or do you think it's it sounds like it man like there really even a week ago i was thinking that this is still a very dicey possibility and it's it's still you know we're still one bad day in the news cycle away from this all going away but well right now it very much sounds like they're moving

forward with it will they or should they are two two very different questions yeah so that's kind of the thing to keep in mind of like, oh, yeah, they'll probably do it. I don't think it's a good idea at all. I mean, like, and then there were, you know, there was the, I can't remember who said, I think it was Phil Dono said it, where he was like, oh, yeah, it would be really hard for us to leave our families for four months. We would have to have something figured out with that. And it's like, do you want to have the playoffs or do you want to hang out with your family? Like, you cannot do both of those things. Like, what are you going to do? I'll get a week off in the middle of the playoffs.

Let's all just go get coronavirus back home, have them bring it to us, whatever. We'll figure it out. But yeah, it's crazy that like, you know, we're trying to, well, really have it both ways, I guess is what you'd say. Well, I think, I think Brennan Gallagher had the better take, which was that he's like, look, I'd rather just have the summer and work out and come back when we have a chance to win. Like, that was sort of thing.

Like, it's cool, like you want to expand the playoffs and put us in, but I'd rather just get ready for a season where we're not mediocre and then maybe we'll have a chance. So he's coming back in 20, 23. You boys did a fucking mad dash to that joke. Bocchio. And it was great. Diving for joke. Ryan, to your

point, if the players signed off on this, and I know that we understand that NHL players frequently, every day do things that are detrimental to their well-being for the sake of on ice glory and financial gain. But if the players sign off on we're coming back under X conditions, will you feel better about it?

Or do you think it's all just a bad moral choice? I mean, you know, like, I don't know. Like, it's the risk of, like, if they want, it's the same, it's the same thing we always hear of like, all, you know, we, these guys know what they're signing up. Yeah, these guys know what they're signing up for. And, but it's the thing, it's the issue of should they then be put in a position where they can potentially bring it back to their families and that kind of thing. Like, I, I don't know. They, they might have way better, uh, controls in place like in these arena where, you know, they're getting the, uh, the decontamination shower entering and exiting the arena every day. Like, I don't know.

Maybe, maybe that's what they. have to do to make it work, but it just seems real dicey. I think it's a major risk that I personally would not feel comfortable taking, that's for sure. Decontamination showers are real, right? Like, that's, if you're at Chernobyl, you go back in and they give you the spray in that little I mean, I guess so, yeah. Because all I know it is from sci-fi, and I always like, you know, would watch sci-fi movies and there'd be a decontamination chamber, and it always looked pleasant. Like, it was just like, you know, like, like, like, like, just like, I don't know, like moist air or whatever being sprayed on you. But I'm sure it's like corrosive chemicals that are being used to get the, the pandemic virus off your body.

That's probably true. But I don't know. I mean, like, you'd see like Ellen Ripley walking through in her underwear and she'd get like a decontamination spray. But in fairness, you've just played a play the game against Brad Marchand. You probably want that anyways on the way out of the rink. but you're safe because he's wearing his officially licensed Bruins face masks so he can't get you with the tongue. Yeah. Did you guys have a problem with that?

I didn't. Yeah. I mean, it's the classic shit of, oh, well, we're giving all this money to these food banks. We're not taking a cut of this. And it's like, well, I mean, you know, who has to work at those or has to rely on those food banks now is all the people you've laid off. It's, you know, it's the Pagula. we donate $1.8 billion to the one Buffalo fund or whatever it's called. And then they were like, and all of you should also donate.

And then also you're losing your jobs three days from now. Did you guys see it? Two weeks later. Like the coverage of that on the athletic, but they actually had like a bunch of quotes from people who work there. And then Kim Bougula did an interview. It did that. But the thing was like they fired the longtime PR guy and then did, exactly the sort of interview that a long-time PR guy would have stepped in and not let, like,

even if you hadn't read any of the previous articles, you would read that article and be like, I bet they fired the PR guy. And yeah, they did. Yeah. And that was that was good shit, man, by the athletic, because that was a classic case of just putting them on, putting the fire under the pool is so much and so often and getting like roping in and ex-employees and stuff. to the point where they had to talk about. Yeah. And then just letting them literally just, here's the interview, word for word, in their own words. And it was, yeah, it was not good.

If you haven't seen it yet, go seek it out because it's really, it's really something. And it gives you a good sense of what the temperature is like in Buffalo these days. I don't know why the face mask thing, by the way, wasn't seen for what I think it is, which is. The R move? No, no, no, no. I think it's the reality of our surroundings for when we get back to the arena. Like, does anybody think they're going to be able to go to the arena at first without a mask? Oh, for sure.

You have to wear a mask this fucking supermarket now. So I think the NHL teams are like slowly conditioning us the idea of, yeah, you got to wear a mask. But it's got a fucking Predators logo on it. How cool is that? Like, that was my first thought when I saw this shit. I mean, but it's, the NHL is a $5 billion business or it used to be, they sell things. They do everything based on the bottom. line, everything is a dollar sign.

I don't know why we would not expect them to, if there's a product out there that you can put a logo on that people want all of a sudden, I don't know why we wouldn't expect the NHL to jump over it. So I wasn't, I wasn't bothered by it because I was like, yeah, that, that arrived right on time. When you said they sell things, I don't know why I thought of, and I sell a car parts, the American people, because that's who we are and that's what we do. I don't know why you thought of that.

I thought of from Jurassic Park. That's Tommy Boy. I thought of Jurassic Park where it's like, and then you're selling it and you're selling, you know, he's banging on the... So I went to a David Spade movie and you went to one of the greatest action movies of all time. It checks out. The other thing that came out this week was the Kirk Oberhart player exception plan for finding a way for teams to designate one guy on their roster being exempt from the salary cap so you can pay your star players.

A billion dollars, yeah. Yeah, exorbitant amounts of money and have it not count against the cap. And as I talked to some people this week who I would say probably aren't fans of Kurtz. And one of them's like, what a fucking genius. He just stole an idea from the NFL. Like, congratulations. What the fuck? There's a part of this that I really like because I do think it's actually ghastly when you look at how much money the elite players and other leagues get versus how much money the players in the NHL get.

There's no fucking reason why that Connor McDavid shouldn't be like a $20 million a season player for the Evanton Oilers. I mean, outside of the Oilers not being able to afford it. But like for what he's worth and what he brings to the game and the value that he has and being the best player on the planet, fuck, man. pay the guy. And I do like the idea of, I mean, look, super teams are great and dynasties are great, and I'm a huge fan of getting teams with as much talent as possible on them. And so if the Leafs or the Lightning can throw somebody into an exception player slot and not have to like constantly blow up their teams because they, you know, had the nerve to pay their best players what they're worth, you know, I'm okay with that. I think it's good for hockey. But I think that the idea also

is fraught with issues. Like, for example, once you start making that money as an exception player, like, do you then have to take a pay cut if you ever want to go play for a good team that already has a really good player? I mean, this is where you can maybe explain some of the details, because I wasn't clear on this. Is it simply a case where a team like the lightning could say, okay, our highest pay player right now is Nikita Kuturov. He's our exception player or franchise player or whatever it's called. And oops, okay, now we ended up, we got to pay Victor Hedman more. Okay, so now Hedman for this season is our guy.

And if we trade Victor Hedman, it goes back to Kutra. Or would it be something where when you sign a guy to a contract, it's like, okay, boom, you've got the exception tag. It's a six-year contract. You have it for six years. We can't use it again. like is it is it a permanent thing or does it just move or is it just like by default your highest paid players i think i think that you could play around with the designation because i can't imagine

it's only going to be 31 guys that have that designation at one time or 32 um so i think you can play around with it just much much like you could put the franchise tag on different players in the NFL each season but the the issue would be that in theory you're paying your exception player a ridiculous contract that otherwise would completely fuck your cap, right? So, like, you'd want him to be the exception because you are paying him above and beyond. Now, I asked Oberhard, because we had him on ESPN and ICE, a question that I couldn't figure out, which is, are these contracts you give these players in keeping with the rules of the CBA for, like, how they could increase or decrease and percentage and all that other shit?

And he's like, yeah, because my thought was like, you use the exception rule to pay some guys, a contract that's completely out of whack with what the restrictions are. Yeah, I don't, but I mean, I wonder how that would work then. How does, how do you get into the psychology of that? Like, as I'm thinking from a Leafs perspective, it was tough enough to manage Matthews and Marner, uh, where, you know, Matthews is the best player and Marner thinks he's the best player and wants pretty much the same amount of money versus if one of those guys could get 20 million because you're the Leafs and you print money.

and the cap is the only thing limiting how much you can pay, and one of those guys still has to take a cap-friendly deal. I could see, again, this is where I could see hockey players. You know, you asked before, what's the reason Connor McDavid doesn't make $20 million? Other than the CBA, it's that Connor McDavid's a hockey player, and he's been told his whole life that you're not special, just because you're the best player on every team you've ever been on by a mile,

you're not special, you're not more important than anyone else. You should get paid a reasonable amount so that your team will have enough money to give Zach Cassian 3 million in a few years and put them on your line. And I could see the same sort of thing. I could see guys taking things in the same range. But still, yeah, I don't think guys, maybe like a Connor McDavid type would come along every now and then.

But other than that, I don't see guys taking huge contracts because then they're just, hockey players are just wired that, you know, I don't want to walk in the dressing room maybe making $10 million more than the guy next to me just because I was some sort of special, exceptional player. Nobody's allowed to be special or exceptional in the NHL, that's. Right. I think what I would say, though, is that this is a good idea only because the middle class in the NHL is shrinking in a very weird way, right? Like, the number of guys who are getting $3 million continues to decline.

seemingly, while the number of guys who are getting 4, 5, 6, 7 million is on the rise, and the number of guys who you have to sign under 1.5 to accommodate all those other higher-end deals. Like, it's improper evaluation at the top of your, again, you know, your 28-year-olds getting six-year, $6 million deals, that kind of thing. fuck so many teams caps and if those contracts didn't exist or you could fit two extra of those contracts

because Connor McDavid's off your books now I think that it obviously just puts more money in the players pool overall but it also allows teams to actually more appropriately allocate money instead of having to overpay for

middling veteran talent perhaps And, and, I mean, not to get too far down, but not to get too far down on the rabbit hole, like it puts more money in the players pool, but it also would increase escrow. Because like, now you're talking about money above the cap,

uh, for salaries, extra expenditures like, I mean, obviously. Yeah. So it, in a way,

it would, it would kind of fuck the players a little bit. Well, that's, yeah, that's what I was going to say is that it's, this is, this is fun to talk about,

but it would never happen because it breaks the owners, 50, split. So the only way they could ever work without the owners just completely deciding to abandon the concept they rode off a whole season to get would be more escrow and the players aren't going to accept more escrow. And I mean, you think they hate escrow now. Imagine, knowing that your escrow just went up because one guy in the room makes twice what the next highest paid player makes. And he's walking around, you know, with his new $20 million contract and your pay just dropped 5% because of it, that would not.

So it's like so many potentially good ideas when it comes to this league, it's kind of a fun thing to talk about, but it'll never ever happen. No chance of happening. Two things. First off, the best part of the idea that maybe you guys didn't see is that the players that are in this exception slot, the contracts that they're handed get luxury. taxed. And so if you're a small market team that can't afford to give these guys that big contract, like you'll get relief through a luxury tax on these, on these contracts. There's just a

cool idea. The second thing is, when it comes to escrow, you guys reminded me of an idea that I wish they adopted, but maybe they won't just because of how, like, creepy it is with regards to the CBA. If you made the prize for your team winning the All-Star game that your entire team is exempt from escrow, like how fucking great would that be? Think those guys would play? No. Like the end of the thing? Yeah. Now you're maybe on to something. Yeah.

That's... Like, to me, that's the perfect thing. And then one of the skills competitions could be explain escrow. And we could see if any of these guys actually understand what it is that they're complaining about. Because I have a feeling they do not. Oh, fuck. I think that's like the current hockey portion. Oh, one more.

Fuck, right. John McDonough got fired. What the fuck? How about that? I mean, how long has it been since Chicago's won a playoff series? Like, somebody had to get fired. Right, but don't you think it'd be the guy who has fielded three straight consecutive non-playoff teams versus the guy who behind the scenes turned your franchise into a fucking ATM machine? ATM machine.

God damn it. Stupid. Yeah, no, I, look, should they have fired Stan Bowman? Yeah, like three. years ago. But, you know, whatever. The ownership has a weird loyalty to him, or they're doing this because they want to kick Bowman upstairs so they can hire an actual good GM.

Like, who knows what the motivation behind any of this is? And based on all the people that the athletic put together in their list, like, it doesn't seem like it's a hard job that not any idiot can do off the street because they're like, what about Kevin Weeks? What about Eddie Olick? They're just like, here's a slew of former players and executives. And that's it. That's the whole list.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Let's see who they hire. It's one of those things, obviously, you never know exactly what's going on behind the scenes. And that's especially true when you're talking about high levels, high level executives, ego comes into play, power struggles, pissing matches, whatever you want to call it. You know, it could just be something like that. But if we're going purely based on the Blackhawks used to be good, they haven't been good the last few years, your CEO is not the guy you fire when your team is underperforming on the ice, when it is still like the number one revenue generating team out there. And especially when it's a team like Chicago where, you know, and again, this is crazy to new fans, but 15 years ago, the Hawks were a joke of a franchise.

half empty building, just no footprint at all. They were, I mean, they were, they had fewer fans coming to the games than the Panthers or the coyotes or all the teams we make fun of. That was the Hawks minus 2,000 fans, right? Like it was, it was crazy how, how pointless that franchise felt. He is part of the turnaround to bring it back. I mean, obviously the owner dying was the big part of it, but he's part of the turnaround. Oh, yeah. In 2004, if you had said in 2020, the Chicago Blackhawks print money, they are all over TV, they sell the most jerseys, they do this and that.

It would have sounded amazing. It would have been like saying that about the Arizona Coyotes today. I mean, he was part of that. You don't turn around and then go, yeah, but the goal tanning hasn't been great. So you, the CEO, you're out for that. But we're going to keep everyone else, at least for now. It can't be a hockey decision because if it's a hockey decision, you fire the GEOC. Yeah, right or wrong.

And you strip it down, maybe the crutch, too, and you go from there. Real quick thought exercise. When I say picture a Chicago Blackhawks player post-Ronic era, pre-Taves-Cain era, who's the person you think of? Eric Daze. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Why is that? Why is it Eric Dazze?

He was weirdly, if not their best player, they're. one of their best players for four, five, six years. Yeah, and he was, he was really good, and his back got messed up, I think. And was he not, okay, am I imagining this? Was he not his draft pick? I feel like he was picked with like a late pick, but I think it was in the Hasick trade.

Like he was like the one thing that kind of kept the Hasick trade from being, for a little while, from being an absolute disaster for, like, if you were a Hawks fan. They don't have his, a trade history on his page on a hockey reference. What was his draft year? But he was taken, 1994,

I'm gonna look this up because now I'm... He was taken in the fourth round, 90th overall. Because I feel like for a while it was like, hey, Hasick just won another Vezan. And they're like, yeah, but Dazet scored 30 goals. And yeah, he was in the Hasick trade. He was, they got the fourth round pick in the Hasick trade

and used it on Eric Daze, who I think was a called her finalist. Or is that? Like, he was really good. good until his He was good for a while there like it's not a

90s way that he was like a big slow dude right but that was fine yeah he was sort of a Chris Chris

Grattanesque kind of guy his call to year by the way top three uh... Jovanovsky third

Dazé second Daniel Afertson first that year Saku Kovu fourth man yeah that all man that makes sense

um yeah Eric Dase Jesus there's a name speaking of remembering some guys. It's time for the reason we're doing the show today.

It's a look back at the 2010 entry draft. It's been 10 years, obviously, by my math, since 2010. Checks out. Taylor versus Tyler. This was the draft that was held in Los Angeles. And I remember that distinctly because, one, they held the rookie availability on the roof of, I want to say, maybe the building where ESPN is located, because I remember we were in LA Live. We could look down on the crowd of LA Live. And it was the, the NHL draft was held

the same weekend as the premiere of one of the Twilight movies. And there was a bunch of, there's a bunch of, of vampire cosplayers and goth girls all mulling around LA Live for the premiere of this movie. And it, and it was very, you had team Tyler and team Taylor, and then you had team Edward and team werewolf guy, Jacob, I think it was.

And it was all sort of commingling together at the same time. The other thing I remember was being on the roof and everybody was crowding around Sagan and Hall and all these guys. And then there was just Jack Campbell sitting there by himself.

And nobody, he was talking to him and uh they did because they needed a goalie sure so they're so they had jack campbell there and i felt bad for him but that's what it was but a fascinating draft and a fascinating swirling a world around the draft there's a few things we need to discuss but should we just get to the the top 10 picks and and do our top 10 redraft first sure all right okay Taylor hall goes number one to Edmonton. Does he still go number one to Edmonton or does Sagan go number one? Oh, bad news for Mark Stone, who should be maybe the best winger in the game. But there's no way that Mark Stone goes ahead of Hall and Sagan. Do you think he's more valuable

than both of them? Yeah. Okay, so it's 2010. I have a crystal ball. I know exactly how these players are going to turn out. They're going to develop the same as they did, no matter what organization they wind up in. who do I want out of that group? I'll take Taylor Hall because he peaked with an MVP year. Mark Stone's been very good once he settled in to the NHL and maybe today is the better player. In fact, I would take Mark Stone over Taylor Hall today. But in 2010, I'm not looking forward and saying, well, okay, in 2020, who's going to be good?

I'm going to say over the next 10 plus years, what does that look like? And yeah, it's, I think Hollins again are still the top two picks in this draft. if you get a do-over. I think the parameters of this are what Sean just said. Like the next 10 years of this guy, and then also, I think, to keep the integrity of the redraft, you also have to climb into the heads of the teams in 2010 and say they are drafting for this positional need.

Okay. Because when it's still the same team, they're clearly looking for a defenseman. I think so, yeah. So it's the same teams, but they can look into the pensive or a, whatever, and they can see the next 10 years. Okay?

Boston then takes Sagan still, second? Yeah, I think they do, although it's, I mean, Stone is going to come into the conversation and Teresenko and Kuznetsoff at some point will be part of it as well. But I think, well, again, like it's, how much of the future can you see? If you're Boston, if you're like, you're going to take this guy, he's going to take a couple years to find his feet. And by that point, you'll have talked yourself out of him being a good player and you're going to trade him for not very much. Then maybe you go in a different direction. But, I mean, if Tyler Sagan had to get traded out of Boston because he wasn't a Bruins type of player, I don't see them liking Vladimir Teresenko very much.

Or even Taylor Hall. Or even Taylor Hall. Like Stone might be the guy. But, you know, the thing with Mark Stone is it... I think you're right. Like, if you're going the Bruins way, then it'll live... I think it eliminates Sagan.

And I think it eliminates Teresanko. I mean, how many Russians... Like, what's the last Russian guy that was good in Boston? Like, the... Sergei Sampson off, yeah. So, Tarasenko would be the obvious choice here for, like, a big strapping power winger that Cam Neely, you know, creams all over. But I think, I think Mark Stone would be the guy that take here.

But here's the flip side of it. of that. Like, again, Mark Stone is great now. Mark Stone was drafted in 2010. He didn't make the, he didn't make the NHL's first year, did make the NHL's second year, made his debut for a few games in his third year, played a few more games before. It took five years before he was a regular NHL player. He didn't play a full, like anywhere close to a full season until 2014-15. Now, which, you know, right there. If you, if you're drafting with a second overall pick or a high draft pick and you're told as a GM that yeah this guy you're not going to get anything from this guy for five years that's going to move a guy down your list especially if you're the boston

Bruins remember this is they've got the leifes pick from the this is from the phil kessel trade so this isn't this isn't a team that has second overall pick because they just finished second last this is a good team they think they're close to winning a stanley cup and in fact they are they're they're a year away i don't think you're going to pick a guy who's not going to see the nchel for for five years that's a good point And it's also hard to ignore the hype surrounding Sagan at the time. And the fact that he, I mean, he was a good piece on that team that won, even if he was never going to actualize, I think, as a player that he ended up being in Dallas while playing in Boston.

I think you probably have to keep it at Sagan. Yeah. And he's a sad. You know, you've been missing that sort of top six center ever since you traded Thornton. You've got Bergeron at this point is developing. into a top guy, but, you know, I don't think Bergeron back then was viewed as a consensus. Like, first-line center, he was like the great two-way center, but hadn't kind of blossomed into that.

I mean, Christ, it took till what, like 2014 before the local media even said, oh, you know what, the Bergeron line is the first line. Right. Remember that insane insistence they had where they were like, David Craach is the number one center on this team? At which point the narrative then immediately shifted to, it was good that they traded Joe Thornton because that's what allowed Patrice Bergeron to develop. And you're like, that's exactly right.

Yeah. Yeah. So the third pick becomes really interesting because this is Florida. And we're going to assume that they are looking for a defenseman here, right? If they are looking for an Eric Goodbranson type, I mean, the next really good defenseman in the first round is Camp Fowler, which is not an Eric Good Branson type. Yeah. This is how much of the future can you see? Because this is like you're walking.

into a store in 1990 to buy like a beta cassette player. Like at some point, somebody's got to be like, those aren't going to exist in a year, get something else. If you can see the future. Well, here's the thing. Is, is, do they get, do they get Brian Campbell in 2010 or another year? That sounds about right for the timing. I looked it up real quick.

Because that would be, that would be interesting if Campbell was there. So, wait, so he goes to Florida in, oh, he goes to Florida in 2011. 11. So I don't know. Maybe they are looking for a, maybe they go for like Fowler at 3 if they're, if they're thinking that they need a puck moving defenseman in their system. I don't know. Because the other guy, look, there's a huge gap in defensemen. Because Fowler you got, then you got a bunch of like okay guys and never was this. And then you got Justin Follingberg's the other guy, but he's another guy that takes a few years to get there. So I don't necessarily know that. that anybody's picking him that high. And you're right. If you're focused on a good Branson type guy, you're not, Klingberg's not the guy that you're going to swap in. But Klingberg, I mean, yeah, he's at 131.

You know, I guess, all right. So the question is, are you investing in Falk, Fowler, or Klingberg? I mean, it's Fowler. I don't know, man. If you're married to having a defenseman, he was the next guy to go. he was, like, I know we're doing this with complete hindsight, but again, like, it's always tough in this where you're like, let's redraft. I love Mark Stone, but if somebody had picked Mark Stone in the top five, we all would have lost our minds in 2010, because nobody had any

idea who this guy was. So it's, it's always, like, I lean towards the guys who actually did get picked high, and yeah, Fowler was an, and I seem to remember at the time, Fowler went 12th, and I think people were kind of surprised. It was like, oh, the ducks got themselves a bargain here. He was considered like a late top 10 at the latest. So I think he's probably their guy, even though he doesn't really fit exactly that old school mold. Right. CBJ, I think, takes Ryan Johansson here because they wanted it. They were in their search for a franchise center.

So I think it'd have to be a center. Yeah. And I mean, he's not a franchise center, obviously. but like he's not. He's a good player. Do you think that he'd still be the pick here? Or do you think it'd be because net's off? Again, I think the fact that Johansson gets to the NHL pretty quickly, even though, you know, in and out, you know, he gets sent down in second year,

so it takes some time, you know, maybe. But I mean, what the Blue Jacks are really hoping here is that Sagan falls, right? They're hoping that Boston talks himself out and then they jump on him. But I think he's like, did you guys see the piece about the Oilers, apparently? almost trading for this pick. Yes, I did know. This was something that was in the athletic. Apparently, the Oilers had the first pick.

They took Taylor Hall, but they wanted Ryan Johansson as well. Their scouts were really pushing for it. And we don't know who the team was, but it must have been either Florida, Columbus, or maybe whoever was five. Apparently, the Oilers went to them and tried to trade for this pick, and they were told that, as part of that trade, they would need to give up Jordan Eberley, who at the time was considered one of, like a can't miss prospect.

He had just had the world juniors where he had scored the famous goal and all that. So the Oilers were like, no, that's, but it's kind of one of those fascinating what ifs because if you're the, you know, looking in hindsight, Eberle, yeah, maybe you do move him for. If Taylor Hall has a center. And if you're not, you know, loaded up, remember that was the thing with those early Oilers. Oh, they got all these wingers, but they don't have. a number one center. You know, Johansen, it really, not necessarily that guy,

but it's, it's kind of one of those what-ifs that we only found out about all these years later. But I find that really interesting is that they were, they had two guys in mind and they got one of them,

but weren't going to give up Jordan Eberlay to get the second guy. Interesting. All right. So are we, so what did we decide here? Were Johansson or, or Cousy?

I think he kind of. Probably Johansson still. Yeah. And especially because, like, it took Kuznets of a long time to come over from the KHL. It did. It did. You're right. The Islanders take Nino Nita Ryder at 5.

We have Stone and Teresenko both on the board. I got to believe it's Tarasenko. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I would. It's one of those two guys, I think. Yeah. And probably, I mean, we're in the...

Although I don't remember the timeline for Tarasenko coming over either, so. Yeah, I don't think he was right away. Teresanko's first season was 2012, 2013. He played 38 games. So a couple years, yeah. It took him until 15, 16 to hit, oh, wait. To beat Tarasenko. 14, 15, he had 37 goals.

So you're waiting four to five years for him to actual. But I think we're getting far enough into the draft that maybe we're getting to the point where teams are expecting to wait a little bit. Because, yeah, they're really, yeah, if we've taken Fowler off the board, there's really not anyone who jumps in with an impact right away. Well, here's the question.

I mean, if we are not married to them getting a winger, and maybe we are because at this point, do they have Tavares at this point? They do, right? Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, if they're, do they look at Skinner? Yeah, I mean, oh yeah, I guess he's the other guy that did jump in right away.

I think at that point, you've, and he's real good early. You've drafted Tavares the year before. So I think this is, you're in your let's find a winger for our franchise guy mode. So I think it's, I think it's Teresenko or Stone. And I'd go, I think that they probably go for the goal score. He's a little sexier. Let's, I'd say Teresanko's the guy. The Lightning are next.

They take Brett Connolly. They go Stone or Skinner here? Hmm. I think at the time you obviously would go Skinner, but knowing what we know now, you know, you know, yeah, like Sean said, Skinner jumped in right away, but that was because Carolina sucked, right? But he wants to call her, right? Eiserman. This is. Yeah, but he's in a position to get that opportunity.

because Carolina sucks. It's true. Iserman at this point is he is hired. He accepted the lightning job and was named the team's new vice president and general manager in May 2010. So he's there. And to me, Mark Stone strikes me as an Eisenman as an Eisenman guy. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go stone here.

I'm good at that. So we have Hall, Sagan, Fowler, Ratton, Raijo, and also remember the lightning are two years removed from drafting Stephen Stampco's at this point. So you've got your elite center. Right. Let's build around them. Yeah. Carolina still takes Skinner. I think that's probably what happens.

If you can see the future, do you take Skinner or do you take Kuznets off if you're taking the center right now? I mean, I'm biased towards keeping them where they're. Because here's the thing, right? It's Kuznets off. You say, okay, what's going to happen with this Skinner kid? Well, he's going to make the team as an 18-year-old. He's going to have 63 points. He's going to win the Calder.

Good. I'm sold. Well, hold on. Ten years later, that remains his best season. He's still in the league. He's making a ton of money. But he's never topped that point total in the 10 years since. Are we, but are we factoring in, like, injuries and shit?

Like, I mean, a lot of that is concussion shit for this kid. Yeah, and that's, yeah, I don't know how you factor that in. And if you're, but again, we're talking about the Carol- One of the Carolina Hurricanes ever really played the long game until Eric Tolski got there. Like, like, I think the immediacy of Skinner, and don't forget, like, for a couple seasons, he was the face of the franchise.

Like, he was an electrifying player for them. Like, like, and they'd have to wait five years for his Nets off to actualize. I still think it's Skinner. Okay. Yeah, I think you may have tipped me back to, you're right. I mean, it's a short, they're short-term thinking at that point.

And when you're as good as that team was, you've got to be thinking short-term. That was, you can't be, you can't play a long game. Didn't they make their one playoff appearance of the decade to right around that time? I mean, you're riding high. So the next one also thinking short-term are the Atlanta Thrashers. Now, I'm assuming the choice here is Emerson Edom, just because was this at the time when the thrashers were just... It's about that time, yeah. I think that was the summer

Yeah, no, was it? Yeah, it was summer 2010 because it was right after Chicago won the cup And they traded Bufflin there. Right, so there you go. So I'm not seen him. But seriously, if it's not Emersonnelian, or is it? Some terrible player that, because this is the Thresher's, like there's no, they took

Burmastrov. Michael, Michael, yeah, they took Mery Strav. So if you're going to take a Russian anyway. Now granted, he's a Russian playing in the OHL, but... There you go. Take Coozy. Yeah. We'll give them Coozy.

And then he goes to Vienapeg and is never heard from again. The Minnesota Wild at 9, they took Michael Granland in 2010. So they're looking for a center. Take him because he's... He might be the best center who's left on... Our board. Do you think that they, better than Jaden Schwartz? Is, we count in Jaden Schwartz as a center?

He's, uh, yeah. He's technically a center here. He's listed as a center. I mean, he didn't end up being one. I mean, that's classic. And Charlie Coil. I mean, that's just classic, uh, uh, draft shit. Oh, he's the center. Really? Oh, well, no.

I mean, not really. But he's, but he's a center. Yeah. We have a, he took a face off in the highlight package, so. To, uh, do the, do the wild just go out and, and just take Jason Zucker anyway? Yeah. And then immediately start trying to train them. Brendan Gallagher's available. Brandon Gallagher is really fucking good. Rendon Gallagher strikes me as a real Minnesota wild kind of player. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah, I take that. Let's do, let's do Brennan Gallagher. I'm a big fan. All right. Number 10.

Oh, fuck. The New York. Ranger's draft Dylan McElrath at 10th. We'll talk about him in a second. But, uh, like, if they're looking for that guy and Good Branson's no longer going third overall, do they take Goodbranson here? Yeah, I mean, if that's what they're looking for. Like, say what you want about Eric Good Branson. He's in the fucking league. Can't say that about Dylan McElrath. I mean, you could have said it for him for 66 games with a couple different teams. Most recently the red, is he in the Red Wings organization now? He was, I believe. Yeah, that sounds right.

The more talented Joe Finley. So the first round is Taylor Hall, Tyler Sagan, Cam Fowler to the Panthers, Johansen still goes to the jackets, Teresanko becomes an Islander and scores 77 goals playing with Tavares and Ackposo. Mark Stone to Tampa. Skinner still goes to Carolina

Kuznetsoff goes to Atlanta and doesn't appear until they relocate and Minnesota takes Brennan Gallagher and the Rangers draft Eric Mrensen So there you go, the Rangers take Justin Fault I'll throw that in there I think they go for the American kid and... You're probably right. Yeah, and the better player.

Yeah, and the far better player. But then again, it is the Rangers, so... And again, they were looking for a big, they're looking for a big fucking hulking sandpaper guy, though. I don't think they take Justin Falk. I think they take good Branson. Yeah, but, what's they're looking for it? But you're talking, again, you're talking about, oh, what do we know 10 years down the line? Oh, we know he's been traded twice now.

Right? And Justin Falk got traded once, you know, for a cap issue, basically. And also, he's operated, but sure. I mean, you know. Oh, you know. All right. That's your redraft the top 10. Diamonds in the rough in this draft.

Justin Falk at 37. Tyler Toffoli at 47. Which was an interesting one to see his name pop up there. The Kings took him. Zucker, we mentioned. He went at 59. Radcoe Gudis goes at 66th of the Lightning. He's better than a lot of defensemen in this draft.

Oh, yeah. Taking three spots behind Brock Bukaboon. Remember Bukabom's kid? Man. What's his face? Where did Klingberg go? He went. He went way to, he was pretty far.

He was Dallas, but he was quite deep. He went at 131 to Dallas. Yeah, 131. Fifth round. So, yeah. Don Skoy was 99. Zach Hyman to the Panthers at 123. Michael Furland at 133.

It's weird to think Michael Furland's that old, but... It is. I know. I know. I think he came into the league, but... It's so crazy. Peter Marazek at 141. Peter Marazek, I think...

Let me look here. Was he the... No, no, no. So the guy who played the most games at goalie drafted before Marazic was Gruber at 112. Grubauer... He was the most successful goalie in the draft is a weird one because it's Frederick Anderson who goes in the seventh round but then doesn't sign and goes back in the draft two years later. So whether you want to count that or not.

But yeah, it was Carolina, wasn't it, that took him seventh round. They had the guy, but then he goes back in the draft and gets picked in the third round two years later. So they get nothing for it. Yep. Yep. Indeed. We mentioned Brendan Gallagher goes at 147, which is, I mean, a great pick for Montreal. Yeah, it worked out well.

And then Mark Stone goes at 178. Yeah. Great pick. And, you know, that was such a. a fascinating draft for the senators. I don't know, like, if we're going to get into a team-by-team breakdown or whatever, but like the senators, back then, and even today, didn't have money, didn't, you know, they weren't out there going for big free agents, but they were always good amateur scouts. They, they were always good at finding bargains in the draft, you know, Alfredson,

other guys that they got late. And it was such a fascinating draft for them, because on the one hand, They find Mark Stone, a guy who's arguably the best player in the entire draft, and they get him in like the fifth or sixth round, which is a huge success. But the other thing they do is they trade their first round pick to the Blues midway through the first round for David Runblatt. David Runblatt? What was that? Who was the best player, the best prospect outside of the NHA and the Blues head? And it was a classic case where obviously the team that has the prospect knows that he's just. junk, but there's hype everywhere else.

And the blues call up the senators, and it wasn't like a flip of picks or anything. They're like, we'll give you this guy for your first round pick. The senators go, yeah, that guy sounds great. They go ahead and they make the trade. The senators get David Rundblad, who just never became anything in the NHL. Never panned out at all, yeah. And the blues used that pick on Vladimir Tarasenko, another guy who's in the conversation for the best pick of it. So a huge miss for the senators.

They would have traded Tarasenko to four years later. That's crazy to think about. Well, you know what? You shit all over David Rundblad. His name is on the Stanley Cup just as many times as Vladimir Tarasenko. Well, that is true. And the senators did. The thing about that story is a couple years later, the senators are now the team that has David Runblad and knows that he's junk.

And other teams don't know it. So they flip him for Kyle Tura, who, you know, isn't Teresenko, but was. a pretty good player in Ottawa for a few years. So it's just, but I mean, like you're talking about just a huge miss, a disaster of a decision in the first round, and then you salvage it in the fifth or sixth round by getting a guy who's almost as good or maybe even better than what you passed up on. It's just one of those really kind of interesting draft day stories of,

that's hockey. Yeah, you never really know. We're getting dangerously close to this being a Steve Dangle trade tree. You could do that. Which I know that Huge fan of Lambert Hey everybody I'm doing a tree

Trees hat sideways No you're not You're talking about the leaves Trees have leaves I'd watch that video You're a big fan of those videos I know Lambert's so fucking quiet right now

I haven't much to say about it The busts Is this some kind of bust It's very impressive yes I guess the first one We should talk about is McElrath. He was just a, he was a guy who fought in 2010.

Yeah, I can't remember who coined the term. He was a Coke machine. Big, big, big tall, wide guy, heavy. Like, that, well, you know, in the 1980s, a Coke machine was used to describe the epinoilers. Yeah, different kind of cook machine. But like, it's funny, when we decided we were going to do 2010, I was like, oh, I think that's the first draft I ever did, like, winners and losers or draft grades for,

and I went back and looked, and I kicked the shit on the Rangers for making this stupid pick. And, you know, like anything, you're going to get a bunch wrong, and you're going to get a bunch right where you're like, oh, I think that's a good pick on Eric and Branson. Not really. It turned out. But, yeah, I was, and, you know, it was fun. The reason I bring it up is I found, like, I had quoted in my article, like, here's what, you know, whoever gave this quote about what Dylan McElrath brings to the table saying why they drafted McElratten.

overall. And he was like, you know, there's more skills in hockey than just being good at skating and shooting the puck and creating offense. And what they meant was, we want a guy who's good at fighting. And within two years, it was like, oh, we didn't want that, actually. Yeah. The league changed. Yeah. Who could have seen it coming? The Dallas stars take Jack Campbell, 11th overall. So such a rarity, Sean, to see goalies going in the top like 12 picks. Especially around this time. This is when it was really becoming less and less common. And yeah, this is why you don't take a goalie with your first round pick, especially this high.

Jack Campbell was the number one goaltending prospect. He had everything you would want on the resume of a guy to be your goalie of the future, except that he was like 18. And he still had years of development to go. and you never really know how somebody's development path is going to Plinko chip its way down to being, you know, sometimes you get Kerry Price in a few years after you use that high pick. And sometimes you better off taking Henrik Lunkwist in the sixth round and waiting. And now let's check in with Jake Ottinger,

first round pick of the Dallas Stars. What, 2017, I want to say? Yeah. I mean, he's fine. He's an okay, H.L. goalie right now at age 22, 21. something like that. I don't feel like Jake Campbell is a guy that you say is a bust because he's still, 10 years later, he's still in the NHL, he's still a useful goalie. He's been fine, but opportunity. And, you know, he just, he didn't become that goalie of the future where you just, you know,

that's, and, you know, at the same time, there's other guys who've been taken in the first round, you know, Bazilewski and guys like that later in the first round, and it works out beautifully. It's, it's when it works, it works, but you're probably better. to take two goalies in the fifth and sixth round and just hope that one of them, you roll the dice and you get the right combo. Yeah. No, that was a good point, though, Sean, because like when you talk about the draft and you're talking about like what a bust is, you know, like, it's the classic Alexander Dague argument,

right? Like, is Deg a bust? Well, in a way he is, yeah, because he was the first overall pick. He was treated like he was going to be the next one. He didn't pan out. But played a lot of fucking games in the NHL. And there are other first overall picks and second overall picks that didn't have the career that Digg had. Yeah, people, you look back in Alexander Diggs' career of numbers, people would be surprised.

Like, he was better than you thought. He was decent, yeah. But when he got drafted, when he got drafted, Bob McKenzie was comparing him to Rocket Richard as he was walking down to put on the jersey. So given that, yeah, it's a bust versus expectations. but this guy was a lot of the guys that you look back and say oh this guy was a total bust you're like you had a few 50 point years like you know he was never when you draft the guy first overall you're hoping you're going to get a heart trophy guy and so anything less than that maybe is a bust in some sense but you know like well and I mean nasty oilers there are just years where it's like

those players are not available you can pick first overall and and you get Ryan Nugent Rockins that's it like is he a bus yeah Nile Yakopov like there they're or just because you know, Nile Yakov's a big bust. Well, Ryan Murray, like,

yeah, he's still in the league, but he's a middle payer defenseman and he went second. So, yeah, that's a good point. I tried to,

when I did that story about first line mates for guys, I found out Brent Burns played with Digg in Minnesota. I tried to get him to open up about what that's like, you know, at that point to be playing with the guy

that you saw drafted and didn't pan out. And, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like, winding up in a, community theater production with like a guy won an Oscar.

Yeah. You know, it's just like, um, and he didn't really open up about it. But he said, he said, Deg was a really decent dude. Like he was down to earth. He wasn't an asshole. Clearly life had humbled him by that point. Alexander Degg's big problem was always that he, he committed the cardinal sin of actually having interest outside of hockey and actually being interested in parts of life that didn't

take place on a hockey rink. So yeah. clear clearly a bum the two guys that were sort of up for the Hugh Jessamine Award Joey Hishon Hishon Hishon Hishin yeah

13 games in the NHL drafted 17th overall by the avalanche ahead of Bukstad other centers around that time Bukstad Riley Sheen Quentin Howden Kuznetsoff, Brock Nelson, Charlie Coyle were the other ones.

And then Mark Vizenton? Vizantine, yeah. He was the other goalie taken in the first round. Oh, wait, he was like a Canadian-world junior guy. Yeah. World junior guy, right. That's right. That's right.

I think if... And he only played one game in the NHL. And if I've got it right, isn't it... Sorry, Ryan, how do you pronounce it? Heishan, was it? Joey Hishon. Joey Hishon. Is he not the guy who is like back in the news today because he's like the link between Jordan

Bennington and Justin Bieber in setting up. Like he's the guy who's friends with both of those dudes. I think that's him. I saw that thing in Elliott's column and skipped over it because I fucking don't care. Yeah, neither do I. But I think that you're right that he has the connection. I mean, he clearly can't be a boss to be you're friends with Justin Bieber. I think he was.

also the guy that Elliott asked about a rumor that that Bieber was going to buy the senators, which I'd never heard before. Was the thing that he asked, Tyson? Okay. Yeah. I mean, sure. Go for it. Are you trying to tell me, you try to tell me that not, that every, uh, every place in,

in Canada isn't talking about the Bieber buying the senators rumors? It made it sound like it was something from years past, which, I'm, okay. I mean, why not? It's plausible. Yeah. He's rich. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but that would have to mean that Eugene sells a team.

It turns out you don't have to be rich to own the senators. It's pretty optional. You know what? You're right about that. That's a great point. Or the islanders. Yeah, so Byzantine had one game. April 12, 2014, a loss to the San Jose Sharks, 3-2. There you go.

That's the career. So he was one game away from being our huge. specimen. But I guess Jessamine finally did get it. I think he played two or three games

for, I want to say the Panthers maybe 11 years after he got drafted or something like that. So this still qualifies as a huge Yesman award then because

he only had one game that he played. Yeah. In the NHL. Trades of note, Sean mentioned St. Louis getting a first rounder that they used on Tarasenko

for David Rundblad. This was also the draft where Vancouver traded Keith Ballard to Florida for Steve Byrneye, Michael Grabner, and the 25th overall pick. Who'd they get with that pick, Greg? I'm not remembering this. So hold on. Wait, it said that they got the 25th overall pick, but it says here that Florida picked 25th. Yeah, Florida got the pick from the Canucks for Keith Ballard.

Yeah, this was the Canucks where the Canucks, I had barely any picks in this draft because they were loading up for a cup run, which they ended up taking. So they got Keith Ballard from the Panthers. Oh, that's right. I had it mixed up. Sorry, you're right. Traded to Florida by, to Vancouver by Florida. Okay. And then Florida drafted to Howden. And then you had the Dan Hamhuis affair. Remember that? That's right. Yes. Didn't the flyers trade for his rights and they traded his rights to Pittsburgh? I think that's right. And then Vancouver ended up signing him was the thing that happened.

Because they kept on trying to get his negotiating rights. Did he actually play? No, he didn't play for Philly. No. I think it was the thing where his rights were traded to, yeah, traded to Philadelphia by Nashville for Ryan Perron and future considerations. And then Philly's trying to sign him. and he's not signing. So then Philly trades him to Pittsburgh for a third round pick,

and then Pittsburgh's trying to sign him, and they can't sign him, and then he signs it to Vancouver on July 1st. Really fucking weird situation with Dan Hamhuse. It happens every once in a while where a team will try to get a guy. It'll become immediately apparent. It's not going to work out. Yeah.

Because in theory you can't talk to the guy. That happened with Adam Fox, too. And granted, like, there was maybe an extra year or whatever between it. But it was obvious to Calgary. They weren't going to get them. Carolina trades for him. It becomes obvious to Carolina.

They're not going to get him. They trade him to the only team where he would sign the New York Rangers. In theory, you can't talk to the guy until you own his rights. So you can make the trade, pick up the phone. Hey, you want to come play? No, definitely not. Great. Good chat.

And then you've got to trade the guy away. So can I do my favorite pick in terms of trades? The second pick of the second round, this is this 30-second overall, starts with Toronto Maple Leafs. Two years earlier, they trade this pick to the Montreal Canadiens for Mikhail Grabowski, who was pretty fun. Mikhail Gorovsky was pretty awesome before he got hurt. The Canadians send the pick to the Blackhawks for Robert Lang in 2008. The Blackhawks send the pick back to the Maple Leafs as part of a bunch of picks moving around

that actually lands the Blackhawks the draft pick that they use for Brandon Saad. And then the Maple Leafs who had to have that pick back so that they could use it to threaten an offer sheet for Phil Kessel eventually trade this pick to the Bruins for Phil Kessel. So it ends up getting traded one, two, three, four times. The Bruins end up using it on Jared Knight who never played a single game in the NHL. So there's a lot of names of a lot of NH, you know, pretty decent NHL players getting floren. for this pick that ends up not even translating into a single game. That's wild. That's absolutely wild.

What would we give this, let's just call it the first round maybe, or do you want to do the overall draft? I don't know. What would you give this draft as a grade in comparison to other drafts? It seems like a real solid sort of B maybe. I feel like it's a B draft. Yeah, there's a lot of high-end guys, or not a lot. but there's a handful of really high-end guys. Then a few guys where you're like, yeah, he's a good player.

And then, like every draft, a bunch of guys where it's like, ooh, not so good. In terms of like the talent it produced, I would say, yeah, it's a B. In terms of how teams used their picks wisely, I would say a lot lower than that, actually. I would say probably like closer to a C. Yeah, I mean, there's one guy from this draft who goes, on to win an MVP, that's Taylor Hall. About five to ten more guys who I think we could apply the star label to. A couple of rounds worth of guys who become decent, useful NHL players, and then a whole

bunch of misses. That's about right. That's, you know, in a great draft, you'd like to have a few more sleepers. There's nobody, Mark Stone's really the only guy late that is an elite player, turns turns into with apologies to like Klingberg and maybe Brandon Gallagher. There's not like a Pavel Datsuit

or, you know, that sort of guy hidden away deep in this draft, but it's not bad. You know, if you're an NHLG, like there are certainly some drafts where you're kind of like, you know what? If you go back in time, you just tell the GM, trade all your picks in the years leading up to it and sit this one out because there's nothing in this draft. This one's pretty good.

I'd give it a B, maybe a B plus. I would go B plus. There's a lot of guys that are just kind of still playing. Yep. Uh, here. Plus, it's a draft that gave us, you know, Nino, Nider rider. So that elevates it to a B plus in my mind regardless. The Swiss sensation.

Very good. Um, before we get into this week's, uh, overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite. What a week for Blink Win 82. Um, as you, you know, if you listen to the mailbag, uh, I came out. out as someone who believes that we're being visited by interdimensional beings. And Tom DeLong's footage of an unidentified flying object was certified by the FBI as being an actual unidentified flying object. It's a huge win for Tom DeLong from Blinkwinter 82.

Yeah, it was one of those things where they were like, oh, there's new UFO footage. And then it was like, it's the stuff you saw like two years ago. But it's new. The New York Times wrote about it. And also, I liked that the government was like, yeah, these are UFOs. And everybody was like, not now. Like, we're just. Yeah, we're busy.

10 years ago, this would have been the biggest story in the world for three months. And it just scroll past your Twitter and you're like, I just, I can't right now. No. Right. The two things that happened this week where you got that reaction where it's a, oh, look, it's a UFO. People are like, buddy, you picked the wrong time to visit. And then the other thing was the asteroid that's going to come within like millions of miles of the Earth. Oh, see, I didn't even see that.

Yeah, half the timeline was like, all right, come on. Let's get it over with. And the other timeline was like, not now, not like this. So. And the other news, Blinkw 182 was, was Mark Hoppus, you know, the other guy in Blink 128. Bad news for Travis Parker, but okay. Well, okay, granted.

Filled out a, somebody did a bracket of the best Blink 1282 songs. And Mark Hoppice actually filled it out. Like, he took the challenge, and he ranked in a March Madness bracket, the best Blink Win 82 songs. And any guesses for what won in this bracket from Mark Hoppice, ranking his own songs? It's not going to be a big hit, right? Like, it's not going to just be all the small things. No, it was a hit. It was a hit.

Here, I'll give you the top eight, and you can tell me which one you think won. Okay. Damn it. You know, the, what's my age again song? Oh, wait, no, damn it was the other one. All the small things. Rock show. What's my age again?

First date. Feeling this. Adam's song, and I miss you. And by the way, the great thing about this bracket is that, that Mark Hoppus short-handed, I miss you as Y-E-D-Yed, because that's how Tom DeLong pronounces the word head in the song. That's funny. So there you go. So damn it, all the small things, rock show, what's my age again?

First date feel in this Adam song, I miss you. Which is the one. I personally think it's, what's my age again. But, like, of those eight, I would say, that's the best one. but, you know. It's Blink One 82, so you're being, you're being kind. No, Blinkly 2 is good. What are you talking about?

Dude Ranch. Yeah, I have no idea what they would pick. I, I have zero ability to determine what is an actual, objectively quality song. I have songs that I like, but as I think we've established, that doesn't. Well, let me, let me reframe it. Let me reframe it. Mark Hoppice in choosing this song thought this was. the quintessential

Blink Winniety2 song. Like if you said, what is the... I still think it's what's my education. Yeah, I would say... The apex of blinketed two was a song. So Ryan picked out, I'll do... I miss you as the other option.

See, that's a good pick because I figured it would be that because it's sort of like an emotional apex for the band. And or it's just them reciting a plot from a movie they found on IMDB. Depending on how you listen to it. Right. Right. Yeah. They saw Nightmare before Christmas and got high and then wrote the song. No, the answer is actually feeling this. Okay.

Which I think is a good choice if the criteria is what is the song that perfectly encapsulates what Blink One 82 does best. It's got great drumming. It's got Hoppas doing his vocal thing. It's got good guitars. I think that's a good choice for like what they do. did. If you were going to put a Blink 182 song on the golden record that went inside of Voyager, then this would be the song that you'd put on that golden record before Voyager eventually actualized and became sentient and became Viger and tried to destroy the universe in Star Trek the motion picture. Sure. But here's the thing. There's one part of the bracket that I got pissed off about, do you remember the song down that they did where the chorus is just them saying

down, down, down, down over and over again? That beat what I think might be a top five song from me from Blinko 82, which was Man Overboard. Do you remember Man Overboard Lambert? I don't. I can't say I'm super familiar with the Blink 182 catalog. Everybody go find Man Overboard and listen to it and tell me if that's not a top five blink one 82 song. Yeah, you're talking to the wrong guy from Stick the sports for point in depth.

All right. finally, the overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite of our week. This is from the

mailbag, actually. I saw this idea and it had some support. And rather than asking the

Twitter commentariat for their ideas, I figured we just use this one because it's a good one. Overrated, underforated favorite, least favorite,

sitcom dads is the category. Sitcom dads. So, overrated sitcom dad. You know, I'm going back and forth on whether this guy is my least favorite sitcom dad

or overrated sitcom dad. Because I don't like Michael Gross and family ties. I mean, I don't remember that show. I I remember watching it, but I don't remember anything about it. I was like four when it was on, so. He's a bit of a cuck.

Right. I'm going to go, I would have to probably save him for my least favorite. So overrated sitcom dad. Well, actually, wait, least favorite. Are we all going to say Cosby? Why? Did something happen? I hadn't even really thought.

I hadn't even really thought about that. I'll go Cosby least favorite. Skip ahead. I'll go overrated Michael Gross on family ties. And if we're going to take sex criminals out of it, let's... The great thing about the Michael Gross, which I actually like that. I mean, I like the show. I like the character.

But when that show debuted, like, he was supposed to be the star of the show. Like, this was like a Michael Gross star vehicle. And then, of course, Michael J. Fox immediately just takes over. over it becomes his show and I guess like but I apparently there was like some drama because Michael Gross made like three times as much money as everyone else and because it was supposed to be his. Wow, that's not going to sit well with a little bit like the Allen Thick Kirk Cameron dynamic except like it not even it wasn't expected like Michael J. Fox was not supposed to be this star and like a few years later he's making back to the future and yeah that was a good show.

Who is your overrated? I was going to say Mike Seaver. from... Yeah, you can... It just seemed very derivative of every other show that it'd come before it. I can never say anything bad about Alan Thick as a Canadian hockey fan,

but I... You love his son's music, of course. I love his music. I love, you know, Alan Thick is a sitcom legend, wrote all the theme songs, did, you know, how many fantastic NHL All-Star game skits

and musical numbers. Again, this is why I said Mike Seaver, and not Alan Thitt. I could, yeah. My overrated, I'm going to go I'm going to go Ward Cleaver. I think he's the like

he's like the Phantom Joe Malone. Like he was the first star, but it's just the quality got so much better as it went that let's not pretend he could compete in the modern era. I like that. Underrated

sitcom dad. Wow. You think here. I've got a good one here. Philip Banks. Now, you could argue more of a sitcom uncle, but... Yeah, I was going to say he's not a dad. He was a dad.

He was a dad. He's a dad. He's a dad. He was a dad. He was his dad. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Just like that, the...

Because, I mean, you know, a sitcom, he was funny. Had his moments, but also, like, he was the dad in the sitcom dad where you're like, I would not want him to be mad at me. I would not want to let Uncle Phil down. So, yeah, I'm going to go, uh, Philip, Philip Banks and also a hell of a pool player. So. Yeah, that's right.

I would go, I'm going to go, uh, Bob Saggett from full, from Full House for underrated, because I think he gets overlooked, uh, because he was at the time playing the straight man to, uh, both, uh, there were three dads in that. And Cullier. That's, he's like the bride Marchand. even the best dad on his own line, let alone. Yeah, I'd say no. So who's the Bergeron on that line?

Is that Stan? Yeah, certainly. Yeah, totally. Right. Uncle Jesse's the Vergeron and then Pasturnaq is Coornech is Coorier. Was he a dad on the show? I don't remember Uncle Joey. No, no, the only dad was, all three kids were,

I'll give you, I'll give Mickey and Alex the fucking bad news. But I don't, I don't think. I don't think Joey, I think he probably got married toward the end of the run, but I'm pretty sure there was never a kid in the picture for Joey Gladstone. He wasn't really a, Joey Gladstone didn't date a lot either. I have a feeling, there's more to Joey's story. Yeah, I think there's a song about his dating life, but we'll. So I'm going to go sag it underrated, only because, like, he was a great dad.

He had tearful conversations with Candace Cameron pre-Burray. Jody Sweeten, the fucking Olsons. He was a solid dad, but his dadding didn't ever get put over because it was, you know, overshadowed by Joey Gladstone's comedy and John Stamos's sexy Greek machismo. So I'll go underrated. And look, can we also just make note of the fact that you had one of the most wholesome sitcom dads of all time being played by one of the filthiest. comedians. Yeah, big creep. Yeah, sure.

No, we don't. Like, just an absolute like, how many people, how many people went to a comedy club to see Bob Sagget? Or, like, let's go see the nice man from the TV and just, yeah. Yeah, it became such a thing, though. I don't know if you guys know this, but his comedy, actually, a little Randy. Yeah, we know. It's fine.

Underrated sitcom. Hank Hill. Okay. Yeah. Oh, good choice. He, boy, he puts up with a lot of shit from. Bobby, you know, and Peggy, quite frankly. Between the two of them, Hank Hill, a very buttoned-down guy is, I think, a saint. I think he, you know, he's a real engine for comedy on that show in a way that a lot of, like Danny Tanner, like the comedy just kind of happens around him. A lot of the comedy of King of the Hill is Hank is very annoyed or aggrieved by something. And also his friends are all dumbasses, too. Dale and Bill and

Boomhauer. Boom, Boom, is, is that the greatest moment for propane in our nation's history? Not just propane,

propane accessories as well. I fucking love King of the Hill. It's so funny. It's great. I think the thing, I said Boomhauer's an idiot friend. Not really.

And Hank broadly, I expect this from Dale and Bill, but you Boomhauer is a thing he says not infrequently. So yeah. All right. So that's underrated. Favorite. You know,

this is probably the spot where I would say Homer Simpson, but I feel like if I'm going to go obvious with Bill Cosby for my least favorite, I should go a little bit off the board. So I'm going to go John Goodman on Roseanne. Really good. Dan Connor. Fucking awesome. By the way, awesome performances from John Goodman on that show could be volcanic and scary, like a real dad.

Yes. Or at least my dad. Or it could be like tender and fun. But Dan Connor, I think, was my favorite sitcom dad of all times. That's a really good pull. I think I do have to just go home or, I mean, look, is he a good dad? Probably not. In some ways, he is in a lot of ways he's too stupid to be.

But the amount of enjoyment I've just gotten out of his. antics on that show, you know, far and away. Sometimes he does really bad things, and then he imagines himself dressed like the devil playing the Maraca saying, I am evil Homer. Well, I think that only happened the one time, but. To us, I mean, we haven't seen the totality of their lives. That's true. I bunched out after season nine, so you're right about that.

Favorite sitcom dad, Sean. I'll do my favorite and least favorite in the same batch. favorite Al Bundy seasons 1 through 5 least favorite Al Bundy season 6 through 20 whatever however long that show went So is no ma'am the part of demarcation? Okay No, it's the episode where like John Beiner shows up

and they're in like the Texas desert or whatever But yeah, I have made the case before that like the first two seasons of married to children it was like trying to be kind of a modern all in the family sort of thing and it didn't fully work. The last 10 plus seasons of that show was total garbage. But there was like a three or four season sweet spot in the middle where that was one of the best shows ever sitcom wise in terms of just doing really weird stuff at a time when sitcoms were all cookie cutter and the same. Yeah, full house. Yeah, it was all like full house family ties, Cosby show ripoffs.

and then they come in and they try something a little different. It doesn't quite work. And they're just like, well, we're on this new network. We can do whatever we want. Screw it. Let's have Alibi visited by aliens. And then let's blow up the house at the end of this episode. And then the next episode of the house is just there again.

And nobody ever mentions it. And people will fall off the roof. And it's, yeah. Let's do a version of It's a Wonderful Life with Sam Kinnison. Exactly. Yeah. And like some legitimately some of the best one-liners in that era's sitcom history. and probably paved the way for a bunch of stuff that people like these days.

And then because it was one of the first hits in the network got like a basically a blank check for 10 more years that were just unwatchable, awful. You're right, though, like when, and to put it in sort of Simpsons terms, when Al Bundy kind of became Homer, like, they didn't get Homer right in the first, like, season of the Simpsons. seasons. Yeah. True seasons. Yeah. And then he became like this perfect dumb guy character. And then like the same thing happened with Al Bundy.

You're right. It was very sort of acerbic in the beginning. And then he became kind of a dumb guy. And then when all of those characters reached their peak, like stereotype, you know, when, when they got, when they got peg right, when Kelly was dumb, when Fastino was just the creepy, you know, guy. was beating off in his room all the time when they replaced Steve Darcy with, with what's his face, Ted McGinley. And it all worked out. And I think you're right.

Like, peak of its power as married with children was a palpably great sitcom. Yeah. It all kind of came together and clicked and then uncooked a few years later. But if this is, again, like if we're talking whole career, not a Hall of Fame show. If we're talking Peak, it's in the conference. I got to figure out who, like, is the married to children of pro sports athletes

because there's probably somebody out there. Could be, except it would be like if Tim Thomas, like, had those seasons when he was like 23 through 25 and then 10 more years of not be, I don't know. I'm going to work on that. That'll be my homework for the week. Work on that. Yeah, workshop that.

Was this the, was this, what propane was to King of the Hill was shoe salesman to Marywood Chilper. That's right. Shoot salesman. He scored four touchdowns in one game.

I don't know if he knew that. Yeah. Polk high. I mean, we all know that. All right. That's the show for this week. Oh, I didn't say my least favorite. It's Mike Brady.

Oh, fuck, I'm sorry. It's Mike Brady. I don't. Oh, damn. Now, why Mike Brady? Well, it was always on when I was a kid, like in reruns, obviously. And I never got any enjoyment at all out of that show. And, you know, so I,

anytime I saw it, I was just like, fuck, this could be saved by the bell. This could be the Simpsons. Why are they showing something that sucks when they could be showing something good? So that was my take. That was the genius, but that was the genius of the Brady Bunch

is that it wasn't a good show, but it was like a watchable show. And it had so many tropes that when they did the Brady Bunch movie, the movie was hilarious. Because it managed to kind of like hit on all of these subliminal things about that show, about character's sexuality and shit like that,

that was sort of bubbling under the surface and then they mined it for a really funny movie if you've never seen it. So anyways, that's a good choice, though. He's not a good dad. You know what he is? He's an absentee father because he was so obsessed with this architecture career that Alice basically raised the kids. Plus, I saw this other thing Mike Brady was in and he was a slave owner.

the whole time. Oh, that sounds good. Roots and nobody no other certain roots I guess. Mike Brady Mike Brady, I mean, Alice was basically an indentured servant let's be honest.

Yeah, that's true. Well, I mean, Sam the Butcher was there. I'm not saying I didn't watch the show. I just resented having to. Right. And that's a good point. Like when in the Brady movie

they made Sam delivering meat jokes the entire time to Alice. Yeah, I saw this movie once. I can't, I can't attest to what gags they did or didn't do. Solid gags. All right.

Did they have the Brady Bunch in Canada? We did. I just realized I didn't ask you that. We did have the Brady Bunch in Canada. Sorry about that. All right. That's the... When the Brady Bunch got lost in the Grand Canyon,

was that like a ratings event in Canada? Because it was such a fucking anomaly to be able to see the Grand Canyon for you guys? Yeah, it was huge. We were brilliant. And except they... They digitally altered it so that like Marsha got hit in the face with a hockey puck instead of a football so that we wouldn't be too confused. Yeah, they blue screen or they green screened the background to be Niagara Falls and everybody in Canada was like, oh, I get it now. I go, okay, that's why that is a place you go on vacation.

And they CGI replaced Joe Namath with Gila Fleur. Yeah. It's great. All right, that's the show for this week. Thanks to everybody for listening. You can find my stuff on ESPN.com. just wrote today about how the NHL players are actually, after 27 years, actually have leverage for the first time. So congratulations to them.

I'm sure they'll use it wisely. They'll definitely, yeah. I mean, as you know, the Union. No way they squander this. Oh, yeah. They'll all work together. We got them this time. And my other podcast, ESPN and I said Emily Kaplan, we talked to Kurt Oberhardt, the guy who authored that exceptional player thing.

and also talk to our good friend, CJ, Chris Johnston, once in the future Puck Soup guest. Sign up for the Puck Soup Patreon, too. We do bonus episodes. We did one last week, earlier this week, as a matter of fact. And we do a mailbag every time we do a regular show. And I do a newsletter on there, and I do stick to sports on there as well. So sign up for it and get all that good content. that good shit.

Come find me at the athletic. 90-day trial. So if you're not already subscribed, you can jump in for free and read all our stuff, including I had a piece this week that we had some fun with. This was another one that some readers sent in the question, and it was a simple question, but it turned out to be interesting.

It was what's the best roster you could build from all the players in NHL history, with the caveat that, none of the players could have ever played with any of the other players on the team. And it was fun because it ends up being, it basically ends up being a game of minesweeper where you're like, if I take Gretzky, I lose all of these other guys. And if I take this guy, I got, yeah, you know, and it like it comes, like if I want Mario Lemieux, but that costs me Jagger and Sidney Crosby.

Now, do would I rather have Mario or do I want both of those guys? But then Jagger ends up like, he's the Thanos of this thing. He takes out half the league because he played for so many teams for so long. So it ends up being a thing. I ended up with what I thought was a pretty good roster. I've got people coming up with what they think are better ones. And it was just kind of a fun way to waste a day playing with some hockey history. Can I do a pitch?

I have a pitch for your next one. Go ahead. Guys who are never in the best roster of guys who were never in the league at the same time. Whoa. That's how I got to get 20 guys across 100 years. So I'm going to give you a hint. do not pick Gordi Howie or Amir Yager. Yeah, okay.

That's, yeah. But I just want to see, like, who are the best guys that were like, oh, he had like a really good five-year career and then, you know, had to retire or whatever. Yeah. It would just be, uh, somebody sent me like a similar idea. And I was like, you realize this is just going to be like the tragedy files of guys who were like, and then he died. And then he blew out his leg. And then he, you know, it's like, oh, okay. But yeah, I don't know.

I might, uh, I might have to take a look at that one. Okay. But seriously, do the, is Trevor Linden the Al Bundy of the NHL? I got to figure out, yeah, who is the L Bundy? That'll be my least red article ever. It'll be 7,000 words. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody.

We'll talk to you next week. Take care. Bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV. Shoals, eats and tools, it's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Park Sue.