Puck Soup - All-Star Tiers

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

Sponsored by Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/puck) and Hello Fresh (hellofresh.com/puck22)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I am Sean McIndew from The Athletic. And, well, first of all, let me just say right off the bat for all the listeners out there who are like, Ryan sounds horrible.

That's true. Usually I sound horrible for other reasons, but now it's because I'm sick. Yeah. I need some traveling this week. We'll talk about that in a second, but... You went to an airport. That was not smart. No, no, it was a bad move on my part.

You ever see that episode of The Simpsons where Marge goes to jail for accidentally stealing a bottle of whiskey? I have not, but... Okay, well, there's an episode where that happens, but it starts out that she seals it because she's exhausted because she's been taking care of her whole family who has been sick with the Osaka flu. And the episode starts with like just following around a green gas cloud with little red dots in it to indicate the flu.

And like Chief Wiggum shoots at it. It's very funny. Anyway, that was the gate agent when I fucking flew this weekend. It was just a lot of people coughing. Like, I'm wearing double mask, like, not helping. I think you should have, like, found an alternate way to get to Arizona. You should have, like, rode your bike or something. Yeah.

I think, I think, you know, maybe you take one of those, like, train cars where there's a big lever in the middle of it, and you're just pushing it up and down you and, like, a hobo. Yes. Uh-huh. Do those actually exist? I've only ever seen those in cartoons. I don't know for sure, I guess. I don't think I've ever actually seen one.

But I don't know that the convention could have existed without them actually exist. Like the cartoon convention. That's true. You know what I mean? Just one of those things we accepted back then. We're like, yeah. Those weird railroad cars and quicksand. Those are real things.

Yeah, you never hear about quicksand. anymore. This is true. Also, one of those things I believe when I was a kid was that you could shoot a duck in the face with a shotgun, and it would just end up his bill flipped around to the back of his head. Yeah.

So anyway, yeah, the reason I flew for people who don't know is that I went to Arizona this week to see a bunch of games at the brand new Mollett Arena. And a bunch of people were surprised to see me down.

there, like some college hockey people and some NHL writers who, you know, I don't meet these people out in Arizona very often, you know? Yeah. And they were like, where are you doing here? And basically I told them what my pitch was for going in the first place, which was, is it insane to see an NHL game in a college hockey arena? And, well, I wrote a big article about it. So I guess you can, I guess you can go read that.

Go find out. So you were at some, there were college games. There were four college games. Actual college games. And then there was a tournament. NHL game hosted a tournament. And then on Sunday, the coyotes hosted the penguins. So how was it?

What was that all like? Because that's kind of a fascinating way to do it. Because we have heard that the Mollett Arena is like the college experience. But you got to actually do it as like. I guess not the full, was like Arizona playing in the college? Yeah, they played. It was them, BU, Michigan Tech, and Air Force. And I guess I would say I didn't get the full college experience just because Arizona State students were on break.

Okay. So like they have a whole end of the arena that they're supposed to sit in called the Inferno student section. they really, I'll say this, they really go fucking hog wild with these sun devil branding down there. Like everything's the inferno this, the pitchfork that, all that kind of stuff.

Which like, hey, respect, that's fun. But, yeah, so the students weren't there so you didn't get like all the chance and all that kind of stuff. They actually returned from break like Monday. So Saturday's game, there were more students, but it still wasn't like,

Absolutely packed over there. But other than that, yeah, it felt like a normal college game in a normal college arena. I think I looked it up and they, and Mullet is not in like the top 20 for capacity. It's probably like 25th or something like that. And all of college hockey, it holds, uh, 5,000. Uh-huh. Which, like, that makes sense as a number to me, right? Like, this is a not really established college hockey.

Yeah, I can't imagine there's enormous demand. for like Arizona college hockey. Well, people just love Arizona State out there. Yeah. Like you walk by the... It's a fun school. Well, you walk by the like the basketball arena and the football stadium, which are all right next to mall.

Like it's all bang, bang, bang right in a row as you walk by it. And, you know, those things are huge. They accommodate a lot of people for college sports, you know, and I think it's a nice bet by Arizona State that they can get 5,000 people to show up pretty regularly just because of how big Phoenix is as a market, you know? But they're also not that good this year and, you know, all the other like mitigating factors

that would depress attendance a little bit. But I think, you know, two, three years from now they're going to be selling that place out pretty regularly. and obviously it's going to help with recruiting a lot because their old rank, and this is the important thing, Sean, is one guy who I talked to there was like, it's the worst arena I've ever been in. Yikes.

Their old rink was like a literally like below high school rank quality. Because now help me with this because I may have this, not quite right, but the coyotes moving in resulted in some upgrades, right, to get it to something close to NHL standards. And we've all sort of viewed it as, well, it's not an NHL rank, but getting it closer to NHL standards would probably make it a significantly better college rink. Yeah. Certainly compared to maybe what they used to have.

So, oh, what they used to have was like, like I said, like below high school. rink in Massachusetts level. Like horrible. Maximum capacity, I think, 7.50, something like that. Like really bad. But anyway, yeah, the coyotes did pay for, there's kind of like an extra building out behind Mullet Arena, where the coyotes and visiting NHL teams.

I was going to say this is the infamous visiting team atrium or whatever. So the visiting teams no longer are, like, getting changed, like, next to the concession stand, which was a completely normal thing that nobody should have criticized, but only lasted for four games. Right. So I, in talking to, like, the college teams that got put in there since, like, it gives them four locker rooms, basically, all the college teams I talked to that, like, were in those auxiliary, or in that auxiliary building, they were like, these are nice rooms. and like nice facilities, like nice showers and all that kind of stuff. And then I went in there to talk to some guys from the penguins. And, you know, it looked like a better than average NHL visiting room is what I would say. Maybe not too much better than average, but like, you know, it was not as cramped as it is at say TD Garden.

That's for sure. It was totally fine. But I don't know. I don't know what like the coyotes did to improve like the in arena situation for fans and stuff like that. I don't know that they did much of anything, if they did anything, period. It's just totally, like I said, like a very normal college rink. And there's like no coyotes branding anywhere in there except at Center Ice, basically. Okay.

Even for the coyotes game? Like there's, wow. It's like, you know, everything you're walking around, there's a big timeline of Arizona State hockey and, you know, like meet like a big wall that's like meet the Arizona state coaches. And it's, you know, all three of the, you know, the head coach and two assistants or whatever. But like there's no coyote stuff like permanently up on any walls that I took note of anyway. I might have missed something or other, like, you know, Home of the Coyotes, too. But, yeah, it was, it's like very much, you're like, oh, this is a Coyotes game at Arizona State's Rink. Yep.

Which is weird. It's very strange. But, you know, I think a lot of us, myself included kind of, we're kind of picturing that this is like a bad situation for the Coyotes. And, uh, let me be clear. It's not a good one, you know, but I guess it kind of isn't as bad as I thought it would be. And then, like, the other thing I wanted to say is, as a guy who's been to easily more than a thousand college hockey games, maybe I was the wrong guy to send because I'm, like, very used to seeing hockey games, like high level hockey games in arena's that big. It is, you know, I was like, oh, there's Sidney Crosby.

He's like 40 feet from me, you know. Yeah. And I was standing on the, like I was on the concourse. That's the other thing is, uh, the press box, quote unquote, is just like an area on the concourse they have roped off. Okay. Because they just, they don't have enough to, uh, facilitate, you know, visiting media and all that kind of. So. Yeah.

Really, really, really a, uh, a surreal experience. But I don't know. I had a good time. Was it like, it. if you put yourself in the shoes of a fan, would that be a cool experience? Because I mean, part of it you just hit on. A hundred percent.

Siddy Crosby is right there. You're seeing, you know, it's almost like, it sounds to me a little bit like when NHL teams play exhibition games in like these smaller towns. Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. And I think I make that point in the article. Except it's not an exhibition game. It's, it's real.

NHL. And most people probably don't live in proximity to like, whatever, when the Canadians play in Halifax or whatever it is, you know? So, yeah, I think it is a good fan experience. As long as you're, like, going with the understanding, I'm going to get, like, absolutely, they're going to, like, just take my wallet at the front door, basically. Would it be, would you consider it, like, at all a destination for fans outside of Arizona? Like, is this something where you hear all the time, like, oh, dude, you got to get to a game in Vegas.

You have to see this. Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not suggesting it would rank up there with, you know, some of some of those buildings and venues. But is it something where you, you know, if somebody was like, hey, man, I'm going to be like in that area as a hockey fan, should I go out of my way to go see a game here? I mean, you know, like, I guess I don't buy enough NHL game tickets to know for sure, like, what, I don't know, like, Toronto is charging to sit 30 feet from the glass, you know what I mean? A lot.

All your money. What have you got? Yeah. We'll take that. So I think the cheapest, somebody said the cheapest ticket is like a standing room ticket that's $150 at Mullet. and you're right there, you know what I mean? Like, there's, there are only 12 rows, like, in the actual seating area. That's it, 12.

Like, the absolute worst seat in the house, you're 12, your 12 rows away, you know? That's wild. Yeah, it's really crazy. So, like, if you're a fan of the maple leaves or, you know, I talk to a bunch of penguins fans. and, you know, some of them were like, yeah, I've been down here. I usually will try to get to a road game or three, and I've been here, like, at the old arena. And this is like a completely wild experience to me, but like, you know, I'm having a great time. So I would say, like, if I was a visiting fan and I wanted to see, again, like the Canadians or the Maple Leafs or, you know, the Red Wings, whoever.

you're never going to get an experience like this. Like, I don't know if maybe like the second or third time, you're just kind of like, okay, I get what this is. Yeah. But for the first time, you're never going to, you're never going to experience that, you know, three years from now, people are going to be like, damn, did you ever go to a game at Mullet?

That was crazy. You know what I mean? And you also, you talk to some of the players, and they were pretty positive about it. Yeah, like, I made it a point to specifically talked to guys who had played college hockey and therefore had like a frame of reference for playing like in

what is extreme I'm sure there's a lot of arena I've never been to a to well I guess I went to one QMJHL game when I was in college and it was the lockout year but the Lewiston Maniacs don't exist anymore you know

um so other than that I've never been to a QMJHL arena I don't know how comparable it is to one of those I get the feeling that those are a lot of older buildings. And this obviously is brand new. So like I say, I compare it to many of the nicer college hockey rinks in the East Coast that have been built in like the last 20, 25 years.

And I think it's, I think while it stacks up comparably to those. So I don't know, go. I think if you go with the understanding that they're going to really shake every dime out of your pocket, you're going to have a good time. Yeah. It's certainly unique.

I mean, there's no, you're right. Like this is... Like I said, you're never going to get this experience again. Mm-hmm. And you've got three years to do it. And I do wonder if like by,

as you said, like, you know, if there's a novelty factor here. Like after year two people, to be like, all right, we get it. But. Yeah, like, I think I said this in the article, but like, if the penguins were like, oh, this is a pretty interesting, unique place, that's one thing. But when they're on their third trip down there, are they just like this shit again? Yeah.

Totally understandable if they are, you know, but, yeah. Did you get any sense? Like, was the crowd, did it feel like? significantly pro Pittsburgh like did it feel like a visiting crowd? It 100% But so this is another thing that I talked to some people about is at the Arizona

State game I talked to a guy who gave up his coyotes season tickets because they just got too expensive with the new building and like traded them in for Arizona State season tickets basically And he was saying that he went to One Coyote's game at it and it was the Canadian's game. And he was like, normally, when the Canadians are in town, it's like 8515 Montreal fans.

And this was like, I would say, maybe even the opposite. Okay. 8515 coyotes fans. Now, again, is that just the novelty factor for sure? Because I would say the Penguins game was closer to 60-40 penguins. Okay. But again, a lot of the fans I talked to. who were like, oh, I'm a penguins fan

by I live down here. Or I go to school down here or whatever. So, like, they're locals, but, like, maybe they're not the most jazzed in the world to see the coyotes. But I definitely got, you know, especially, like, well before Puck Drop, it was, like, all Pittsburgh fans. And then, like, the coyotes fans felt a little more late arriving.

Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. But I was just looking at their schedule, and I was wondering if they have some of the Canadian, teams around like middle of March, the March break time, sort of like the Florida teams do with the Eastern teams, and they do. So that, Calgary, Vancouver, I wonder if they're hoping to pull some in. But I guess, I mean, are they, they're selling out.

So it's not like they need to. Yeah. They don't have a huge building to fill up. That's, I guess, the nice thing. And I think the point is, too, that like if you sell out this building, there are whatever, let's say there are 3,000 coyotes season ticket holders.

I don't know what the number is, but like let's say that's the number, right? That instantly makes it like 60, 40 for the coyotes, whereas if it was 3,000 season ticket holders in Glendale, that still leaves 14,000 seats on field or whatever the number is. I mean. And so, like, by limiting the number of people who are going to the games, they're kind of artificially making it a more pro coyotes crowd.

Yeah. It's interesting. Like I said, I think if you go, like you as the average hockey fan or whatever, if you got the money, I had a great time. And I didn't, you know, I'm not a Penguins fan, although the Penguins did win that game. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny. I saw the Penguins twice this week or last week, once in Fenway Park and once in Mullet Arena, you know? Yeah, that is really strange.

That is interesting, yeah. I had never seen Sidney Crosby play NHL hockey live. Like I said, I went to see him play in, like his last QMJ HL year. And so you saw him in two venues that like average. average 20,000 seats. That's right. Yeah. That's true.

So yeah, check it out. I think if you go, you'd have a great time. Check out Ryan's piece. Yeah, that's on EP rings. Excellent piece. Oh, thanks so much. All right. The other stuff I guess we've got to talk about here is the NHL, I looked it up this

morning. The average team in the NHL has played about 41 games, it's 41 chains. Yes. But 41 games. So we're officially halfway through the NHL season. Which you would know if you read the lead to literally any article that's written this week. This week, yeah, for sure.

So what I wanted to do, Sean, is I wanted to get your thoughts here on three pleasant surprises and three very nasty, awful surprises that everybody's mad about. Okay. And why don't we start with good and then we'll alternate back and forth? Okay. Sure. Are we coming up with our, okay. Pleasant surprises, I think the obvious one, they've cooled off lately, but the New Jersey Devils. Yep.

And hey, they won last night. I think they're on a little bit of a heater again here. They've won a couple, but they've been, you know, the last. I mean, they've been bad for the last month and then, like in the last week there. I mean, they had the. Well, they have one regulation loss in the last. six games. Okay.

They had that insane stretch of like, you know, they went 22 and one or whatever it is. But, and, you know, nobody thought that was going to continue. And yes, if you subtract that from their record, their record is bad. But, I mean, that's true of any team where you take their best, you know, two months in that case out of the equation. The record isn't going to look very good. But I was, you know, I was one of those at the beginning of the season going out. let's try to predict when Lindy Ruff is going to get fired because, you know, that's obviously going to happen. And Andrew Brunette will take over.

And this team that always wins the offseason will get a little bit better, but not really all that close to the playoffs. And they've just blowing the doors off. And they're going to make the playoffs, almost certainly. And, you know, I don't, I'm not shocked by. Jack Hughes, you know, reaching the next level. I think we all saw that coming. He's been unbelievable lately. Yeah.

Like for the last couple of months, he's been, like he's, I think he maybe started, maybe not the best, but like. He's not all that far from where he's going to start getting some, he's going to start getting some heart votes. And he definitely deserves it, I would say. Yeah. He, you know, he, I looked this up the other day and he had like, you know, he's, he's closing it on 30 goals.

and I think it was like after Thanksgiving or something like that. He basically has as many goals as McDavid and Thompson is I think the stat I saw. And, you know, when you draft the guy first overall, this is what you're hoping for. And the first couple of years were not, you know, I never heard the word bust thrown around for Jack Hughes. But you started to think, like, is this guy going to be more of, I don't know, Maybe we didn't get an Austin Matthews. Maybe we got a, you know, more of a Landisog type first pick, which is still, you know, still fine. Yeah, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, sure.

Yeah. But no, no, he's, he looks, he's done. Really, really good. That game last night was so fun. I don't know if you watched it. I did not know. Well, I watched it again because I'm sick and I had spent like I took a red eye back, which was I, first time I'd ever done that, a huge fun. mistake, never do that in your entire life.

So I was between accidentally falling asleep, I was really having a good time watching that game. Cool. Well, I mean, you wouldn't be the first person that accidentally fall asleep. During a devil's game, he said making a timely reference to 20 years ago. My next Pleasant Surprise team. No, hold on. Hold on. We're going to go to a bad team first.

Okay. Oh, we're going. Yes, alternating. Okay. Maybe I didn't make that clear. Yes. No. That's my best.

Well, I mean, let's do the obvious. The Florida Panthers. Oh, see, I didn't even write them down. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, no, I mean, this is. Do you know why I didn't write them down? What?

You forgot they existed? No, it's because of their coach. This was very much in the realm of possibility. They won last night. That was another phone game? Was this in the realm of possible? Maybe not this bad. Nobody thought 120 points again.

For sure. But, like, 500. I mean, you could, are they out of the playoff race? Like, you know, I mean, they're pretty close to it. They're right back in it, baby. They beat the abs. And they only needed a disallowed goal in a bullshit power play with like one minute left in the game to get it done. Six points out of the playoffs with multiple teams to pass and the team, Pittsburgh is two games in hand.

Like, they're extremely dicey. Yep. Totally agree with you, obviously. I did not see. And you're right. Like a lot of the stuff that's happened, you could see coming. Like, oh, the goaltending is bad. Yeah, no shock there. Paul Maurice has, from all evidence that we can see as outsiders has not been the right choice.

That I don't think was that hard to see coming. Some of the other stuff, I mean, you know, Sam Reinhart has fallen off. Alexander Barkoff has gone from being like Heart Trophy good to just very, very good. Yeah, and he missed a bunch of, he missed like 10 or 11 games, something like that. They miss, you know. Well, I mean, set your clock to that one. Eckblatt is going to miss games.

He's just one of those guys. Matthew Kuch has been great and yet, you know, did they, moving two key guys off the roster to get them, especially McKenzie Weiger, like the, the blue line has been weak. So, I mean, I'll talk about that team in a minute, too. A lot of the individual stuff feels like, you know,

it feels like, okay, yeah, maybe you could have seen all this coming. But I'm not sure that if I've gone down this list, like, you're sitting there looking at this team going, they could,

like, they could drop 10 wins and still comfortably be a playoff team. They had 120 points last year. And, uh, Boy, I don't know. This is, it feels disasters to me.

And the fact that this is happening, you know, two things. First of all, it's happening in a market where, I mean, geez, going on 30 years now. We've all been, you know, oh, they don't, you know, is it a good market? Oh, look at the building. They're not selling out. And everybody always said, yeah, but we haven't seen them with a good team. You can't judge an NHL market until the team's good. Last year, finally they break through.

They're, you know, not just good. they're great. They finally win a playoff round and then they just get rolled over by the lightning yet again. And it felt like this was such an important year for the franchise itself. And on top of that, unlike any of the other teams

that we might be talking about, they don't have their own first round pick. So, you can't even sit there and say well, maybe we'll win the lottery and get Connor Bedard, we'll have the last laugh. Instead, you've got to sit there and go like, my God, if they don't win a few, few games, they're in danger of losing the lottery and handing Conor Bidard to a division rival

in a trade. By the way, if that happens, I said this the other day, and I cannot believe people pushed back on me with this a little bit, but if that happens, if Florida, quote unquote, wins the draft lottery, and Montreal picks Conardtard first overall, that is the funniest thing that ever happened in the history of sports. It would be right up there. Especially because, you know, if you're listening, yes, if you're listening to this and go on, I don't remember that trade. What, what superstar did they get in that trade?

No. I can tell you, man. Ben Chirot for two months is worth a Connor Bidard potentially. I'm sorry, if that happens, nothing has ever been funnier in the history of professional sports. How fast do you think Ben Chirot will get sick of that question? immediately. Right, yeah. He's pretty sick, yeah.

He's at least served the jokes, if not the question itself. Oh, my. So, yeah. I don't think there's any team, you know, obviously, standings-wise, they're not terrible, but I don't think there's any team that's having a worse season than the Florida Panthers given expectations and everything else.

I think that's fair. I agree with you on the, first good team you wrote down. I think that was like the obvious one. Second one, also obvious, Seattle. Obviously, they keep winning. They've won, I think, six in a row now after they won last night. They played last night. Did not see this coming at all. And again, that's right. Another team where beginning of the year, I would have looked and said, yeah, well, I mean, coaching isn't great. Yeah, goaltending is not good. And I guess you would have said the same thing with the Jersey. And the goaltending, the amazing thing with Seattle is the goaltending really hasn't been good.

Because that's the one caveat with any team, right? Like on opening night, you can sit there and some time traveler comes back and says, the Seattle Cracken are actually good this year. You go, okay, obviously their goaltending flipped. Their goaltending was great unexpectedly. Hey, it's the NHL happens to a couple teams a year. Right. But Seattle hasn't, it's not the goaltending.

It's no, I mean, they're actually Scoring. Yeah, I mean, it's the shooting percentage. But it's, it's offensively, they're out there scoring a ton of goals. There was that weird stat that was posted on Twitter yesterday where it's like, their road scoring is, it was a list. I don't know. Did you see it to where it was like, goals scored in the first 20 games of a season? Yeah.

First 20 road games of a season. And it was like, it's like 10. teams from the 80s and early 90s and then the Seattle Cracken. It's just the most bizarre thing. They just, and there's no explanation for that. Like, you don't design a team to score a ton on the road. It's just a weird artifact of splits, but. Yeah, they're also playing good team defense.

Like, they don't give up a ton of shots. Like, you know, again, do I think, like, they're unbelievable or anything? No, but like there were articles at the beginning of the year that was like the Cracken need to be good this year or Seattle's going to be like, oh, I guess I don't give a shit about those guys. And they have been. And I did not. I was I was not in, I was I was not sold on Ron Francis. I was completely not sold on Dave Haxhill. Yeah.

And I've, I've been completely wrong. And, I mean, I don't want to get too far ahead because, I mean, Seattle's, Seattle could win that division as far as, I mean, the way that division's going. They're not that far ahead of Vegas, far behind, rather Vegas. But again, like, you can already see it playing out that we're going to end up with, like, a Western conference is going to have all these crazy matchups and, like, you know, Edmonton versus Vegas and Dallas, Colorado and Winnipeg, Minnesota. Yeah. And then it's going to be like Seattle, L.A. And again, people are just going to lose their minds that, you know, these two teams that nobody will take seriously are going to play in the first round.

But you know what? Seattle, L.A. would be fun as hell as a playoff matchup like that would really be. Yeah, Junge's the can't get a save. Yeah. Isn't that what we want, right? Yeah, that's two, the two, I mean, geez, I think that those might be the two teams with the most goals in the conference. So, yeah, let's go. Yeah.

I got another bad team for you. Yep. You said Florida. I say the Ottawa senators. Okay. Disappointing for sure, yeah. Well, here's how you know things are, like, bad. Remember the conversation over the summer was like, look, do they need to make the playoffs?

No, but they need to be like in games and it needs to be like, mean. Meaningful hockey in March and all this kind of stuff. I saw an article. I think it was like one of the local, I can't remember which reporter it was, but one of the local reporters over the weekend was like, look, they're playing their meaningful hockey now.

Every game matters. They're only three points behind Buffalo. And it's like, well, I mean, yeah, that's true. They're three points behind Buffalo, but they're like 12 behind a playoff team. Yeah. You know, like,

if you're trying to spin it now in January, of like this is when the games matter. Season's over. Forget it. They are nine points out of the playoffs and would have to pass five teams to get in. So it's not

it's not impossible, but yeah, they are currently tied with the flyers who we all figured were going to be awful. And it's, and it's, you know,

it's been disappointing because the first month, six weeks of the season, the record was bad, but the rest of, you know, there was evidence that they were,

were playing better than than the numbers would show. And then they've had a couple of stretches where they'd be good and you thought maybe they were getting back into it. But, you know, unfortunately, like, they've lost their last two in regulation. And it's, yeah, it's two games.

You're going to lose two in regulation. Every team does. And yet they put themselves so far behind that even losing two without getting a point just feels disastrous. And the goaltending hasn't been good. Camp Talbot hasn't fixed it. Alex De Brinket started slow

scoring-wise was playing well but the goals weren't going in that's improved the good thing for Ottawa is that the young players are all continuing to take steps forward but the downside

is the young players are all taking steps forward and still doesn't seem anywhere near enough which is the that was always the concern with Ottawa and I had this conversation with people where, you know, anytime you've got a young team, it's always easy to look ahead and say this is if everything, if everyone we've got hits, every prospect, every key young player, all hits. And it never happens that way.

It literally can't happen that way. But the thing with Ottawa is you would look at it and say, if all of these guys hit to a reasonable degree, is this a good enough team? or is there still missing pieces? And, you know, I talked to a lot of senators' fans and some media who felt like, you know, there was enough here. And you look down the roster and you go, okay, who's been a bust? Who's awful? And there's really nobody.

Nobody's awful. But like, you know. It's just not enough altogether. And we should say, and Josh Norris, who was a key piece, has been injured for pretty much the whole scene. Yeah, they've had a lot of injuries and blah, blah, blah, but like, you know, you bring in Alex to Brinket and you go, well, surely he's, he's going to be like a 35, 40 goal guy for us. And right now he's on pace for like a little under 30, like 25, 27 goals, something like that. And it's like, yeah, that's not good enough. You know, you don't.

Not good enough for him, too, as a guy going into free agency, man. Right. And that's the other thing is like, everybody's like, oh, well, they got to keep them around. And now it's like, do they? You know, like, it. That is, I think, very interesting. Like, I haven't seen him show up on any of the trade boards yet. Yeah.

I think the assumption is still that they'll sign him. I think they will for sure. But like, I guess the question becomes a number. Because he felt like a $9 million player last summer. Like, oh, they'll just give him $9 million end of discussion. And now it's like, how much has he cost himself? And he felt like a $9 million on a seven or eight year deal guy. And now you start to wonder, like, does he sign, does he go something shorter?

Does he bet on himself if you're going to sign something short term anyways? Do you want to be in on? There's nothing wrong with being on pace for 25 goals halfway through the season or whatever it is. Right. There is, if everybody who's like 40 goal guy, there he is. You know, that's a problem. Like, I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything like that. No, and again, he's played better in Ottawa than the numbers would suggest.

But, yeah, it's for sure. But, like, again, like if you're going, okay, this is a guy, this guy scores goals. That's like his number one thing that he does. Well, halfway through the year, he has 13 of them. Doesn't sound like that's enough to me. So, yeah, tough season for the senators. I don't know if they'd be in my list of three most disappointing, but definitely. Here's why. It's definitely the hype is why.

and also like the hype from Summer of Pierre. But also the whole thing that you kind of alluded to it where a team does well down the stretch because every other team like playoff team they play is maybe running it like 80% and rest of guys or backup goalies and all that.

And people go, this is what this team is. They went 12, 4 and 1 down the stretch, whatever the number was. last season. And so why couldn't they do this, especially if they had Giroux and De Brinket and all this and is like, well, because they're still the Ottawa senators. That's why.

And this happens all the time. Used to happen with Florida. Definitely used to happen with Columbus. Every other year, this was the, this was the thing about Columbus. Oh, they were so good after the All-Star break. Yeah, when everybody stopped giving a shit about playing Columbus. Right. Cool.

So that's, that's kind of why they're the disappointment to me is just because. everybody was like, here we go, the new Ottawa senators, and it's like, meet the fucking new Ottawa senators, same as the old one. Yeah. And I think what's maybe especially frustrating is if you were a senator's fan, even if you were optimistic heading into the season, you looked at the Atlantic and you were like, Boston, Toronto, Tampa, Florida are all going to make the playoffs for sure.

So we've got one spot we could possibly, well, you know, because what's going to happen is one of those four teams going to magically be terrible? Well, that actually happened. Sure. Yeah. And yet haven't been able. So far. Not even close to rising. To do anything to take advantage of it.

All right. Give me one more good team. Oh, boy. You know, I'll give an honorable mention to Boston just because they have been so much better than everyone. I didn't necessarily buy into this idea that they were going to be the team that fell out of the playoffs. But with all the injuries, you thought there was a chance at least get off to a bad start. And I, you know, I mean, they're, we're halfway into the season now. They're historically good.

They have four regulation losses. Yeah. I mean, they're, they could take a run at, you know, some of the lightning dynasty has records and all of that. A stat I saw the other day is that they're, like, they're basically the second fastest team in NHL history to 30 wins. And the team ahead of them played like in the 1920s. okay. When it's like, oh, there were like four teams then. Right, and like half of them wouldn't show up on a given day because, yeah, that's, so yeah, by honorable mention of Boston, but if I've got one more, I have to say another team that I kind of discount it.

And there's sort of a theme here, which is, again, I didn't like what they did on the coaching side, but the Winnipeg Jets. Yeah, no, totally agree. They move on from Paul Maurice. during the season last year. Well, he moved on from them. Well, he's to be more active. Theoretically, yes. They go seemingly all in on Barry Trots.

Barry Trots ultimately says no. Chooses not coaching over coaching the Jets. They hire Rick Bonas, which just feels like, yeah, here's the latest recycled NHL coach. on his 19th stop. He's a placeholder. You're going to take a run at trots again in the offseason. You're basically kicking the can down the road.

And instead, they've been fantastic. They're, you know, partly, again, this one we could have seen coming as far as Connor Hallibuck being as good as he's been. Yeah. You could see coming as far as the offense being quite good, although they're not, you know, they're not winning. Yeah, they have some. Extremely talented offensive players.

It's really, I mean, this is what I kind of thought was going to happen last year. I was very bullish on the Jets last year because I was like, great goaltending, very good forwards, defense, we'll see. And it turns out part of last year was the defense wasn't, we'll see, the defense was bad. And this year, it's been, I don't know if I'd say good, but Josh Morrissey's been fantastic. Yeah, if you're going to, you know, high. Rick bonus, you're doing so with the understanding that, like, well, the team defense is going to be there for you, you know, and like, interestingly, for me anyway, uh, their underlying numbers are not particularly good at five on five, but, you know, they don't really give up

anything on the PK. They, they've, they've been a good penalty killing team. And again, they have an offense that they can put the puck in the net a lot. Um, um, Kyle Conner's unbelievable. Mark Sheifley is a very good goal scorer. You know, if Nick Eilers could stay healthy, like, that would be another huge weapon for them. But, you know, he hasn't been healthy all year, basically. So, yeah, I also had this as one of my three, like, pleasant surprise teams. I thought they could be maybe around the playoff bubble just because, like, that seems to be Rick Bonas's whole thing is being around the playoff.

off bubble, you know, but they've obviously been much better than that, in part because they're getting, you know, it's interesting. I was going to say a Vesna quality performance, but like it feels like it's been around, like Sorokin and Hela Buc, maybe U.S.is Soros, maybe you throw in Linus Olmec in Boston, who's obviously having an unbelievable season. I don't, I feel like it's all marks to lose just because GMs love to look at how many wins a guy. and Almar is going to end the season with 72 of them.

So, but, like, Hellebuck has been fucking unreal this season. Yeah. And I would say this is a better season for him than his year he won the Vezna, honestly. And I don't want to get ahead of things. And I know Jets fans don't want to get ahead because they're only, they're, like, a couple of points back of Dallas to lead the division. but if they stay number two and we get a two three matchup, Winnipeg, Minnesota, that could be fun. That could be a really fun matchup for a few reasons.

You know, you always, there's always stuff like this, right, where you go, oh, this matchup would be great. And then they're paired up all season long. And on the last weekend, something happens, it blows it. So I don't want to go too far down that road. But that could be fun. Yeah. And then one last bad team here.

I have written down the Calgary Flames. Yeah, I think the flames are a good pick with, again, tip of the hat to probably Colorado, although that's understandable with the injuries and maybe the cup hangover. Vancouver, I think, would be there too. But yeah, the flame and the Oilers. Well, I have an Oilers thing written down for later. the show, yeah.

Calgary, I think, is a fair one. Now, they're back in a playoff spot. They've got, you know, that the record is looking better. Well, I think they have to be extremely disappointed to be a bubble team. Yes. You know, it's interesting, though, because like two years ago in the all-Canadian division, they stunk. They didn't even make the playoffs. They were, yeah.

And then last year, they were the surprise team. They were the team that we would have pointed at and said that nobody thought they were going to be this good. They had a coaching change late in the bubble season. I believe, am I right about that? Darrell Sutter, I think last year was, yes, his first full year. Yeah, so there you go. But, you know, this is, I mean, it at least raises the question of is this season the surprise or maybe was the last season the surprise? Because they were one of those teams where it felt like we got through three quarters of the season last year going like the flame.

are a real surprise, and then we all clicked over to, no, this team is for real. This really is a powerhouse team. And maybe they weren't. Well, so it's interesting. I think they're super, they had, I think it's, I think it's more complicated because they super overperformed offensively last year. Like, Lindholm is a very good player, for example. Is he like a 40 goal guy?

No, but he scored 40 last year because he played with Chuck and Goddrow, right? Yep. What's his name? Mangiopane. Did he score 30 last year, something like that? Yeah, he had like 30, 30 goals and three assists last year. Yeah, 35, 20, 55 for him last year. And again, he did that at age 25.

So everybody was like, well, age 26, he's going to score 40. And right now he's on pace for 16, says here, thereabouts. And I think the other thing that you have to say here is Markstrom, is a good goalie when he's like fully rested and healthy and all that kind of stuff. But he also tends to have years where he's off and he's been extremely off this year. He had a stretch recently where he looked good again. But no, no, no. It's been awful this year.

Really, really bad. 893, it says right now. And so add in the fact that they lost Kachuk and Godrow. um cadry's been good he hasn't been what i think they calgary thought they were buying uh definitely true of jonathan huberto and uh you know he's been better lately but is you know better he's he's he's not even he's not close to yeah and he's not a goal guy but i mean he's he's he has eight of them though he's a points guy he's he's he's an assist guy which means you need you know he well i mean last year hundred plus points right he was he was he was fantastic

Fantastic, but this year not even close to a point of game. He's been a bust in that contract, honestly. But, like, again, you know, they brought in, like, kind of a guy whose whole MO as a defenseman is like, well, I don't put up points or anything. And it's like, that's fine if you're good at other stuff, and he is. But he's, he's been, yeah, he's been good. No, I know, but, like, you know. Huberto has not. And, you know, Hubert O, he gets traded for Kachuk, but is really kind of replacing Johnny Goodrow position-wise and type of game.

And I get why they did it. Again, like, you know, the off-season was a disaster. And, yeah, they, Brad Trilliving really did make the best of a bad situation. Yes, because that's what it was because everybody was like, Trillivin's a genius. He didn't get fucking ripped off in the in the Kachuk trade. And it's like, that's true. He didn't get ripped off. But he also, you know, I think it gave people a lot of license to talk themselves into.

He did actually a really good job. And it's like, no, he did as best as he could. And that's not. I made that point at the time. It was, you know, when, when Matthew Kichick said, I want to be traded and you saw some of the pieces that went out there of like, what could the flames get? What will other teams offer the flames? And you're reading those going like, oh, man, the flames are going to get screwed here. And then the trade happens and you go, oh, they didn't get screwed.

And yet somehow they didn't get screwed turned into. He's a genius. He had the summer of true living. Yeah, they got better. And it was more that the situation was so impossible that anything close to breaking even was a huge victory. But it still was close to breaking even. and even Yeah

And the thing is That's before Okay so you trade for John and you Huberdo Great guys coming off Great season But the contract that they gave him Holy spokes hasn't kicked in yet

Has not kicked in yet That has the potential That has the potential To get into the Worst contract in the league conversation If You know

I don't think John Huberto is a 60 point guy all of a sudden, which is what he's on pace for. But if he's not a hundred point guy for at least the first few years of the deal, they're in huge trouble. And I wrote it at the time. It's the shiny new toy, right? Like you trade for a guy.

He needs a new deal. You kind of, I mean, we talked about De Brinket. It was the same with the senators. And they have maybe to their credit resisted throwing huge money at the guy. Well, I think that's probably the player being like, oh, I can't wait to go psycho mode with Stutzel. and Giroux and maybe even put up 50 and it's like, how does 25 sound?

Yeah. Does that work for you? So, yeah. But tough one for the flames, for sure. And yet, still might make the playoffs and, you know, they won one round last year. So it's not like the bar once they get there is all that high. Yeah.

All right. While we take a break, we'll be right back and we'll rank some all stars. This week's episode is brought to you by our friends at Hello, Friends. You can get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Skip those trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit. You've probably got some New Year's goals around this time of year. Do they potentially involve eating well, maybe saving money?

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Again, that is Hellofresh.com slash Pock Soup 22. And you're going to get 22 free meals plus free shipping when you use the code Pock Soup 22 for Hello Fresh America's number one meal kit. All right, we're back. And while I was in Arizona, the NHL, or maybe it was while I was en route to Arizona, I can't remember now. But the NHL said who the first 32 guys. guys on the All-Star teams will be this year.

I think it's eight from each division, and then we're doing, I think, another eight more from, or 12 more from fan voting. Is that right? Something like that. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, who cares? Well, you know, who cares is all those wacky people

who are going to try to tell you to vote for somebody who isn't really a All-Star, but. What if there was a guy who, played like eight minutes a night and we put him the all star. What if we said him, that guy, that guy, the all star. Wouldn't that be so crazy? Remember that thing that was kind of funny and interesting like eight years ago? We're all set.

Yeah. God, was that eight fucking years ago? I don't think it was now that I'd say that. Oh, that really scared me. It was a while, though. It wasn't. It was a while. But yeah, yeah.

So we know 32 so far. And I was thinking. since we know 32, and these are the ones the league picked, why don't we go ahead and rate them like in tiers? You ever see these tier lists, folks? You're going to have to explain one thing to me with this tier list. And this will be helpful to me because I, you know,

my son is of the age where, like, he can only communicate through YouTube and memes and tiered lists. I get a tier B, C, D. Why is S tier the best? So I, my answer is I don't know. Okay, cool. I think it started as like a video game thing where it does seem to be. The highest level weapon.

Oh, I do remember that where it was like, yeah, like you could get like the S ending or something. What does it stand for? I could Google this, but... Yeah, I could too, but I'm not going to. Yeah. All I know is... It's certainly become just such a thing of, like, when I'm saying, oh, you know, we're talking... For example, when I was in Arizona, they have a bunch of fast food restaurants down there that I don't have up here.

Like, I went to Culver's for the first time. Okay. And everybody's talking about Culver's is unbelievable. You're not going to believe how good Culver's is. And it was very good, but I was like, I don't think I put this in my S tier. I think this is like a solid eight. Now I'm just doing stick to sports material, but like tune in on Friday for that one. But yeah, like I do now just think of it as like S-tier is the best one.

Okay. For whatever reason. So we're just going to go down the list. I have them alphabetical by first name, and I want you to tell me, Sean. Okay. If to you, they are S-tier, A, B, C, or D, or as I put for D, trash. Okay. And this is as all-stars.

As all-stars. Not as players. So don't, you know, if I say that your guys a C-tier player, don't, you know, when he scores a hat-trick, tweet me and be like, oh, pretty good for a C-tier hockey player. I'm saying as an all-star. As all-stars go. Okay. these guys are blank tier. That's the idea here.

Okay. And so we'll start out the first by alphabetical, by first name, this young man, he plays for the Washington capitals. His name's Alex Ovechkin. I am going to go, um, I think that's, that's a, he's an S-tier all-star. Obviously an S-T player. Okay, good. All right, just make sure we're on the same page. All right.

Yes. Uh, nothing, nothing really to say. He's going to, by the end of his career, he's going to have more goals than anybody in the history of the NHL. and he's like undeniably a star. They put him in like commercials and stuff like that. So like if you, if they let you be on,

uh, TV as an NHL player and it's not like foreign NHL game. Mm-hmm. Like, because they let like, uh, 40 guys a night be on the, you know what I mean?

Like, yeah. By that token, you know, they let like, uh, Adam Rizitschka or whatever. They let him be on TV.

So that doesn't count. Mm-hmm. But they let Alex Ovechkin be on TV for other stuff. Yes. So that's why he's an S-tier player. That's easy. Glad we're on the same page. Next one.

Andre Svetchenikov. That's going to be an awkward dressing room, won't it, with him, him and Ovechkin. Hey, man. Yeah. Remember that time we, remember that playoff game? No, actually, I don't. But, oh, Svetchka, I'm going to say, I'll go B-tier. I think he's.

I 100% agree. fun young guy. I hesitated a little bit. I wondered if it may be C tier. But no, I think he's a dynamic fun, you know, young All-Stars are fun sometimes. So I feel I feel B is good on him. And here's why I only put him B as much as I like him as a player and everything like that. Is he the fourth most famous guy on his team?

Because you've got Burns and Patch, you're ready. Those guys are undeniably like bigger stars, quote, unquote, in the league than him. And I think Sebastian Ajo is like a better player. Yeah. And I think, I mean, if we're counting Rod Brindamore, he's probably the fifth as far as star power. But yeah. So, yeah, I think B makes a lot of sense for Svetchenkov. Brady Kachuk.

Uh, similarly, I'll go B. tier. I think he's in the bottom of the B tier. I think it would be wrong to put him C tier, but like, do I think he's better? He's been an all-star for a couple of years now, and I think he's his third all-star game. I think in previous years, I would have gone C-tier for him, but he kind of has continued to push for it. He's the captain of a Canadian team. Yep. Yeah. Like I say, I'll put him at, like, the bottom of the B-tier, like he's more of a B-slash-C-tier. to me than that. Okay.

But I got nothing against the guy. I like the player. You know, I, I've been, I've been a, I've been a Brady Kachuk fan since before he was in the NHL. I tell this story all the time. The first time I ever saw him play a shift in college,

he had two high dangerous scoring chances and ended, uh, the shift lying on top of the goalie. And I was like, this is one of my fucking guys right here. There it is. Yep. And Pierre Dorian sitting next to you just stood up,

closed his notebook and walked out of the, arena. Yeah. Seeing what he needed to see. Next up, I think we're going to be an agreement on this one, too. Brock Nelson. Do you have him C or D?

I have him D tier. Yeah. Again, he's not even like the most famous player on his own team. Yeah. And look, like I think this is probably a situation where, uh, they let Barzal say,

not so interested in all that, but thank you, you know. Mm-hmm. Um, And so like the, and Seroquin obviously would be the other guy you would take. Sorokin should be the guy, but you've got to figure out how you, you've only got one goalie spot. The Russian goalies, right.

Yeah. So, um, yeah. And, and look, I mean, I talked about how young all-stars are cool, 31-year-old all-stars having a big breakout or when you feel like they've been, you know, they finally got. I don't get that. sense with Brock. He's, he's, he's been a steady, dependable player, but he's a first all-star player, but he's a first-time All-Star. And it, you know, he is, I guess the best way I could put it with Brock Nelson is he's like

the Brock Nelson of hockey players. Yeah, yeah, like a guy who is, yeah, you're like, oh, I guess he's pretty good. Take him on my team anytime, but. But as an All-Star? Yeah. Please. It's a big no-thanks for me. Next up, this guy, he plays for Colorado Avalanche.

This is only his second All-Star game, but his name's Kail McCarr, and that's an S-tier player. Sure. Yep. Yep. That's S-tier player, S-tier, all-star, young, face of the league sort of guy. Yep. Easy call. Yep.

Clayton Keller. That's a D-tier. Oh, really? I think that's a C-tier player to me. To me, it's, I mean, this is classic. I'll defer to you on this one. I get the argument you're about to make. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, there's got to be one.

There's got to be one player per team, plays for the coyotes. And he's not a point of game. And he's not taking a kickron. Yeah. Less than a point of game. He's never been more than a 60-ish point player. Has never, I mean, he peaked as a rookie and has never hit that level again, never had any good talent around him. Again, not knocking him as a player.

But I don't think. What's he supposed to do in Arizona? Sure. Absolutely. And, yeah, I mean, he absolutely feels like a guy. guy where you could get to All-Star Weekend and like he's the big star of the weekend as far as, you know, they put him, you know, he's with Jason Robertson and Kel McCarr. He lights it up. But no, this is, this is the, you know, we can do the debate a million times about should it be one player per team and pros and cons of that.

But this is, this is what you get when you do that. If it wasn't one player per team, put it this way. Clayton Keller is nowhere near an All-Star team, I don't think. That's a good way of thinking about it. I forgot to say this. I want to also, once we get guy or when we put a guy on a tier, I want to determine where he is on that tier. So like I said, Brady could check the bottom of the B tier. I think it's safe to say as much as we like Kail McCar, and we all should. He's not above Alex Ovechkin on the S-tier of All-Star, right?

I don't think so. Yeah, okay. He might be a year away from being in that conversation, but yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you this then. Clayton Keller, ahead of or behind Brock Nelson? I would have him behind Brock Nelson. Wow.

Okay. That's fine. Another S-tier player here, and I think, I don't want to influence you here too much, but I think we're both going to agree that Connor McDavid is a S-tier player. Yep. And I'm going to put him ahead of everybody on the S-tier right now. Yes. He's the number one guy.

He is the face of the league. He is the best player in the world. He is having one of the best seasons in decades. Easy club. We don't have to, we don't have to overthink this one. All right. Dylan Larkin. C tier?

Would you go B? I was thinking B. I could be talked into C. This is a guy. Here's my question. Are we, do we have a fastest skater competition this year? And is, are we factoring that in? I'm not, I'm talking about this is just in terms of like star power.

Yeah. And like name recognition. Hasn't, hasn't hit 70 points in five years is, is pretty much in his prime right now, has settled in as basically like a 30 goal, 60 to 70 point guy. Hey, lots of room for guys like that in the league. Not very much help. And a fascinating contract situation. Yeah. The way he gets talked about, I feel like, is completely divorced from what he's actually done in the NHL.

Yes. I think that's probably. You want to say C tier. He's one of those guys where I think if you don't follow, especially if you're maybe like a Western conference fan and you're just kind of vaguely aware. Like when you actually look at his numbers, you would be surprised at how. That's right. how good but not great they are. So to me,

as to your guy. Again, if we're not doing one player per team, wrong. Sorry, did I say, you did. Yeah,

okay. C tier for me. Again, if we're not doing one player per team, Dylan Larkin is not on the initial Atlantic. I think that's probably, oh, yeah, Atlantic,

that's 100% true. I think if you said, is he one of the 30 biggest star, like name players in the league. He might be, maybe. Maybe. But if you're making the point of all the guys in the Atlantic that didn't get the,

didn't get the go ahead, like, yeah, undeniable that he shouldn't be on this team. Yep. You know? Because like, you'll notice if we're going in,

in order of like alphabetical by first name, Dylan comes after David in the, in the Atlantic. And David passes. or next not on this list. So there you go. Wow. So yeah.

All right. Next up, Elias Pedersen. B tier? Oh, I think this is an A tier. You think a day? Yeah, I think so. I could be talking to that.

He is having an unfucking believable season. He is. He's the biggest star in a Canadian market. I think if he was on a better team, like, because now he's kind of in the, in the situation where a lot of guys that are, uh,

bad teams end up where it's like, yeah, he's really good, but like his team sucks every year. You know, and I should say he wasn't particularly good the previous two seasons. This season, he's having like, you know, if the Canucks were any good at all, people would be saying like Leas Pedersen for the heart, we got to talk about it, you know, 48 points in 38 games this year, 17 goals. Like this guy's having an unreal season. Yep. You've convinced me. Yeah. Now, again, I'm a big, long time, Elias Patterson guy.

So like that is definitely, but yeah. All right. A, it is. Eric Carlson is up next. And this is really interesting to me. So I'm going to say A tier. And I'm wondering if you're going to try to talk me into S tier. No, I think you're right.

but I think the conversation becomes before or after Patterson on your. I would put him ahead. I would say this is a guy who's got a lot of star power, has got the, you know, has been there before again, an older All-Star, but in this case,

it's a guy coming back. And he's having an insanely good season. You talk about a guy on a bad team. I mean, Jesus, whose goals are he, is he assisting to rack up all these points? You know, I don't know.

That's a great fucking question. He is, he's been fantastic. But yeah, you're right. And like, again, this is a guy who, if the sharks were better, people would be going, like, lock for the Norris. But instead, it feels like we're more just trying to find guys, like, that are in his range. Yeah. And that's fine. But, like, if the sharks were a better team, like, just could get goaltending or whatever,

we'd be saying like how could you not have this guy number one for the Norris it looks like a lot of Timo Myers goals okay a real lot boy you want to talk about a guy that maybe needs a new home I'm seeing a lot of Meyer on this one hurdle obviously Logan Kuchure a little bit so the usual suspects I guess you would say but you're right to be like damn the sharks have that many good players and it's like yeah they have just barely that many good players is kind of where it ends up. So there you go.

Igor Shusirkin, now this is a very interesting one to me. I would say lower A tier at this point. I think that's probably right, yeah. Not having a great season, a good season, but not a great one. And some of that is the market, you know, is the big star from your biggest U.S. market. And he was absolutely phenomenal last year. So, yeah, I mean, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's big star. Yeah, for sure. All right. We talked about him earlier on the show. His name's Jack Hughes. He plays for the New Jersey Devils. I'll go a tier on him as, as, as sort of the breakout of this

year. Previous years, I would have, I would have had him significantly lower down the list, but this, This is the year where it's happening for him. Okay. So I'm going to say below Pedersen on the list for now. Two years from now, maybe it's different. Although Patterson might end up on a different team by then. But I'm going to say he's below Pedersen for me. I might nudge him just a bit higher, but that's coin flip terribly.

They're close. Yeah. I don't think there's a. Well, I have the list in front of me. So I'm going to put them below. You do it. Do it. Okay.

Next up, this is another very interesting one to me. Jason Robertson. That, I mean, I feel like I'm, I'm given out too many A's here, but I. See, I was just thinking the same thing. Like, do we, I kind of feel like at that point we maybe make Jack Hughes like the king of the B tier. Because you can't have Jason Robertson and Jack Hughes in the same conversation. You can't? I mean, here's the thing.

Like, to me, also with Jack Hughes. Hughes, don't forget, this is a first overall pick. Those guys by nature are, you know, get a bonus to their sort of. All right. Let me, let me propose this. For now, Jason Robertson, King of the A tier, ahead of all the other guys you just mentioned, Carlson, Patterson, Hughes, and Schisurkin. I would put Carlson ahead of him.

I would, you know what, if I'm moving anybody down, I might move Schisturkin down before I move. I can't in good conscience. Again, like two months ago, we were going, this is the best goalie in the world. Yeah. I cannot. Again, he's having a good season this year and not a great one. I'm kind of looking ahead at the rest of the list.

You know what? I'm okay. It feels a heavy, but I think that's just, I think we got a little bit of just weird. Luck of the draw. Alphabetical coincidence. I see, you like, one or two more guys that I'm going to feel like have to be eight here. And I feel like that'll be reasonable. So, yeah, Jason Robertson, below Carlson.

Yeah. You know what? I think that makes sense because Carlson has two Norris's or whatever. Like he's a longtime star. I think there's an argument to be made that he's comfortably a top 10 defenseman of all time. So I'm happy to put Jason. Now again, does that make Jason Robertson? I would say better than Patterson and definitely Hughes.

Is that right? Yeah. Okay. I think. Yeah. This guy is his seventh. the All-Star game. He plays for the CBJ, Johnny Goddrow. I want to say, be with the option to nudge, maybe even down to see if we have to.

Wow. You think, because I can't, I can't put Godro below Brady Kachuk in terms of star power. Yeah, fair enough. Okay, B. And Svecnikov. I think he's better, I think he's a better star than both of them. He isn't yet. he's not having the greatest year in the world but like he's a good player has been easy to market you know

the the small skilled guy is always an easy okay yeah you know what b b tier top of the b tier ahead of svechnikov and kachuk right are those the are those the only two b guys right now okay all right uh yeah okay josh morrissey um i'm gonna say c tier i love them as a player but as as in all Star. Bottom of the seats here. Defensemen are tough to, you know, if it's not a Kail McCar type, defensemen are just tough to sell as an all-star, and especially, you know, a guy

like that where he's, he's very good defensively, not a defensive defenseman, but, you know, he's, that's an element of his game. You just can't really market at an all-star level. The points are nice, but, uh, yeah. Yeah, I, I, and again, nothing against the guy, but like,

will you look at the Jets roster, and you go, now, who do you think their All-Star is? I think you're going to get pretty far down the list before you land on. Well, it's got to be Josh Morrissey, right? I mean, I think you could argue that if it's not going to be Hellebuck. Well, this year, yeah, for sure. But like, I'm saying how we talk about All-Stars, typically speaking? Yes.

In that case, yes, agreed. Like, is he even sixth at that point? He's probably fifth or sixth. I think he's, yeah. I would say, Hellabuck, for sure. That's number one with a bullet. Kyle Shifley

Connor I would say And again This is me being Like an absolute freak About Nick Eilers But like Nick Eilers Is ahead of him

For sure on my list Okay And then like If we're going like Oh here Let's throw an old guy a bone Blake Wheeler's not having a bad season For himself at age 36

Yeah So Again Do I put them all ahead of Josh Morrissey this year? No But in general, I think I would put them.

So I'm going to put him kind of like middle of the C tier at best right now. Okay. Yeah, no, I'm fine with that. Again, love the player, but for the purpose of this exercise, can't give him all that eye. Yossi Soros. Kind of a surprise that it's not a, that it's not a, what's his name? Swiss guy. Roman Yossi.

Roman Yose. I kept wanting to say Roman Soros, but I'm like, that's not right. It feels weird that they didn't go Roman Yosey, Connor Hallibuck, right? Because, I mean, you could have just flipped the positions with Winnipeg in Nashville. I wonder if Yose is one of the guys who either didn't. You know, there can be guys who just say I don't want to play. And there's also, I know some people feel like there were a few obvious omissions for the purpose of generating excitement around voting. But, yeah, my man, Saros has been good.

He's a great goalie, yeah. I mean, to me, he's either high C tier or low B tier as an All-Star. I'm going to say high C-tier. I was going to say low B. Okay. So why don't we put him top of the C-tier? Okay. I was going to put him.

Yeah, okay, that works. That works for me. Kevin Fiala from the Los Angeles Kings. again, high C tier, low B tier, I think. Oh, I was going to go low C. Really? Yeah. Again, is he, he's not the best player on the Kings like in terms of star pot.

Like, I shouldn't say best, I guess, but like in terms of if you're picking an all star from the Kings, it's not going to be Kevin Fiala, first or second. he's having the best year on the Kings for sure. Like that's undeniable. But I think I would even put him below Larkin as in terms of star power in this league. Okay. Yeah.

And again, he's having a better year than I thought he would. But he's having a great year. He's having a great year on a. He's on pace for another 30 goals or so. but again Is he first time All-Star? Yeah

He to me is one of these guys where he's been a good player for a long time had the big breakout last year but yeah I mean I could I could put him high seat here

I could be talked into that Okay I'm gonna put him behind Larkin Is that safe to say in terms of star power Yeah I think I think again Just Larkin's

previous All-Star and familiarity. I'm okay with that. So I currently have the C-tier, Saros, Larkin, Fiala, Morrissey. Does that sound right to you? It does, yeah. Okay, great. Next up, this one's going to hurt to say, I think, but Kevin Hayes? Oh, Dieter.

Yeah, absolutely. He shouldn't. I mean, it hurts to say, though. I mean, the guy's coach said it, right? So, like, we can't. Great story, you know, and they'll, I'm sure. be able to sell that somewhat with, you know, with what happened with his brother and that. But the guy, the guy was a healthy scratch on his own team.

He's clearly there because Philadelphia needs a representative or else he's not even in the, and he's having a good year. But he's not even in the conversation if it's not for the one player per team. Yep, that's absolutely right. I might put him behind Keller or sorry, I might put Keller behind him to like not have Kevin Hayes be the, lowest of the D tier, but I also might not do that. That's fair. And I think it's fair to say Kevin Hayes has like a longer track record of being a good

NHL player than Clayton Keller does. So I don't think that's outrageous. Now here's an interesting one. Keryl Keprezov. I'm really interested to see where you land on this. I think he's one of those guys that I had left on my list as an A tier. I agree. But where on the A tier?

It becomes the question. So read me the A tier that we have. Right now, we have it as Carlson Robertson, Pedersen Hughes, Schisercan. I might put him behind Carlson. I think he's a genuine superstar in the league. Tons of fun, exactly the kind of player that you want to sell on an all-star game. You know, as far as the offensive prowess, great hockey market.

I might put him behind Carlson. I kind of have him tied with Robertson in my head. So like that you're right. Robertson's a tough one because he's so easy to sell as a player. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I'll put him ahead of Robertson just because like at least with the stars, there are other guys where it's like, oh, that guy's really good, that guy's really good, that guy's really good.

And that's not that that's not the case with the wild, but like with the wild, it's like, who's the star on the Minnesota wild? It's one billion percent Carol Caprize of. And with Robertson, you can go, well, I mean, Pavelski, Heiskenen, you know, you can, you can go down the list a little bit, Ottinger. Maybe they're not all in the same, or like on the same level as Robertson. I think I would put Robertson ahead of all of them, obviously. But there's at least a conversation to be had.

I don't think there's one with the wild. So that's why I will put Caprizov just ahead of Jason Robertson. Okay. Linus Olmark. C tier. Yeah, which is crazy. Great, absolutely phenomenal season, great market that obviously you want to get in there, but doesn't have the track record.

And goalies are a tough sell generally unless they are. Connor Hallibucker Conor Dominic Asick or someone And I think Part of what makes Linus Allmark a great story This year is that most of us

Didn't see this coming Because he's not an established Elite goaltender Or hadn't been until this year He's very very good But as an all-star He's seat here Yeah and again

If you're making a list Of all stars from the Boston Bruins You gotta get I would say Maybe even pass Taylor Hall Before you go You know what Yeah, I mean, the top three in McAvoy, for sure.

Yeah, so like it doesn't even turn into a conversation. As far as Star Power, as far as Star Power, not deserving because Allmark's been fantastic this year. But yeah. I don't think it even becomes a conversation until you hit five then, right? Like, you get to five before you're like, maybe Elmark. Yeah, then you get to the Taylor Hall. David Craichie. Yeah, for sure.

Logan Thompson from the Vegas Golden Knights It's similar C tier deserves to be there Would you go D? I think this is a D tier guy for sure I could be convinced to go D tier as well Great story I mean here's

Awesome The reason I might nudge him to the low end of C tier is it's easy enough to sell the idea that everybody thought this team's weakness was going to be goaltending. Everybody thought the guy that was supposed to be the starter gets hurt. They don't have enough time to get in on the other goalies.

Everybody is, you know, you've got this all-star quality roster in front of this one guy that is going to be the weak league. And he plays great. You can sell that story. Yeah, I wouldn't say he's played great. He's been very good. And he definitely had a stretch where he was

early on. He was great. kind of cooled off. And weirdly not getting any Calder buzz. I honestly think people don't realize that he qualifies. Right, because he played however many games, 19 games last year, which is like below the, yeah. I agree that he should be getting Calderb.

Oh, but I forgot to say, where do we put Allmark in the C tier? I'm going to say ahead of everybody, just on the strength of his season. Yeah, sure, I could do that. Okay, great. Logan Thompson, I will put maybe King of the D tier, if you want to do that, or do you want to put in bottom C? I could go either. I'll defer to you on that. King of the D's then.

Okay. Just because, again, like if you're looking at Vegas, you're like, oh, that's their All-Star? I mean, I guess. Yeah. Okay. Now, we have one Kachuk on the list already. Now it's time to add in Matt. So I think to me he's, we had Brady in the B tier, right?

Yes. I'm going to put Madh Kachuk in the B tier as well, although I put him maybe near the top of that one. I put him ahead of Brady. Undoubtedly better than Brady. I think he's the bottom of the A tier right now. I have all the time in the world. He should have been an MVP guy last year. I don't know what else to say.

Yeah. And he's just, I mean, you talk about somebody that's fun to watch when you're neutral in the game. I mean, this is, you can put a highlight reel of him together real easy. If I didn't feel like we were maybe a little heavy on the A tier, I could be talked into that. But again, we're in roughly the same ballpark. Yeah. All right. I'm going to keep him, he's below Shisurkin, but I think he's on the A tier.

Okay. And Chisurgen was the previous bottom of the A tier. All right. For how things have gone this year. Maddie Bineers, another guy, having a great rookie season. Unbelievable. Yeah. Scored a nice goal last night.

I'd say B tier, you know, one of your up and coming stars. Yeah, probably. But, you know, your new teams face of the franchise, I think that's a pretty easy one to get people excited about. Yeah. Okay. So bottom of the B tier right now for Maddie Baneers. Mitch Marner? High B, I would say it. And again, if we were doing this in a different order, he might have been in my A tier as, you know, the offensive player from a huge market. But I think we go B tier. Not the biggest star on that team, though.

Yeah. Although quite possibly the best. player on that team this year. Deserving of the spot. For sure, yeah. Nazim Kodry. C tier. Good story. Like him as a player, obviously.

But I don't know that he screams All-Star. I have him below Larkin. Yeah, I agree. Below Larkin ahead of Fiala. Yeah, that sounds about right. Okay. Yep. Now you're going to want to be careful.

Give him a live mic and I might move them up a little bit. That's right. Yeah, you know, undeniable promo skills, you know. This one, you're going to want to be careful about this one, Sean, because this is a future Hall of Fame. S plus tier. This is the one guy that you want to build. Franchise player, Nick Suzuki.

Yeah. See? Absolute bottom of the season. tier for me. Okay. Good player, but, uh, and, and a deserving, you know, he's, he's, he's been real good this year. He's having a good year for sure.

You know, and it's, it's Montreal. Which he should because he's, you know, one of the best players in the world. Yeah. So, yeah. But, uh, I, I don't know that, uh, you know, I mean, just purely as getting me to tune into an all-star game, I, Cole Cawfield is still, I think, a better, a better option. But yeah, I mean, Nick Suzuki. he's on his way to

might get to 30 goals and 65 points, which I'm pretty sure would both be NHL records. But, no. Yeah, so that's an easy one. Nikita Kucherov. That's kind of got to be an A-tier, right? Former MVP.

I was going to say, you could really talk me into S-tier for him. He's unbelievable. Yeah, I don't think I would go S-tier. Okay. Do we want to put them ahead of Carlson then? Boy, you might have to, wouldn't you? Yeah, I think you have to.

I think you do have to. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm on board, sure. Great. And again, give him a live mic and I'll move them up. It's about to go nuts.

Yeah. Seth Jones. Seth Jones. Oh, boy. I mean, I think C-tier, again, he's, there because of the one per team. I know the contract is bad. I know he hasn't, you know, maybe lived up to the, this guy's going to be a future Norris guy. But he's, he's a well-known player, a big market. And he's one of those guys where he's still, he's a good player.

But I don't care. You know, there's no salary cap in an all-star game. So, you know, I've, Okay, so Son of a former NBA player Like that's you Where in the seat here does he go? Because you can't put him ahead of Josh Morrissey, right? Like that's I think you can.

I think you can as an all-star. Like it just as a guy that's of, you know, it's his fourth time as an all-star. Yeah. You know, he's... All right, I got it. I got it. Okay.

He's below cadre, but ahead of Fiala-Morasi and Suzuki. Okay. Again, we're just going on Star Power. I'd rather have Josh Morrissey. Yes. Oh, yeah. No, no, no question.

I'm building a team to go play a seven-game series right now. I'm taking Josh Morrissey 10 times out of 10 over Seth Jones. But that's, you know, it's a little different exercise here. Yep. Sidney Crosby. S here, obviously. Yes. I'm going to put a...

Right, right behind McDavid. That's what I was going to put him ahead of Ovechkin. Yep. Yep. So there you go. Next up, boy, we're going to get some letters about this one, I feel like. But the answer, the player in question is Tage Thompson. Toughest one of them all.

I think so, too. I totally agree. Like you could absolutely, like, and this is not me talking, but you could sit there and say, best player on a bad team, first time. All-Star, you know, has only had two good years. He's a C-tier guy. I think you could absolutely also say A-tier because he's just such a great story. And, I mean, boy, you talk about the casual viewer.

Hey, go look for the seven-foot tall guy out there. I'm putting him A-tier. I'm putting him low-end A-tier. Okay. How low-end? I was going to put him at the top of the B. Like, that was what was jumping up to me. right now.

Matthew Kachuk. I'm going to put him ahead of Kachuk. Wow. And this way may not age well. Absolutely. But this is the exact. You talk about like strike while the iron is hot. The iron is as hot as it's going to get for him.

We would think, although who knows, maybe not. But I mean, he's the story of the year in the NHL or at least right up there. Yeah, he's got to be eight here. The more I make the argument, I'm talking myself into it. Below or ahead of Shesirkin? I, below, but I had to think about it. So right now the A tier is Kutjurov-Karlson-Kaprisesov, Robertson, Petterson, Hughes, Shasurkin, Thompson, Kachuk.

That feels right to you? It feels crowded, but I don't, none of those guys jump out at me as somebody I want to boot out. other than maybe Kachuk. Sure. Yeah. Troy Terry. Low C. D tier.

He's, okay. This is again. Again. Bad team and the fact that it's not, you know, Trevor Zegers. It's got to be Trevor Zerger.

I don't know what they're doing here. Well, are they not, are they not just trying to get people to vote for, vote Trevor? Yeah, there's two guys on the fucking ducks on an all-star team? Get lost.

Yeah. Get lost. This to me, this is the bottom of the D tier. This is the absolute worst all-star. Below Kevin Hayes. We don't even have Kevin Hayes as the last one. We have Clayton Keller as the last one right now. Right.

Oh, man. He's got 33 points this season. Mm-hmm. I don't know what we're doing here. I know he's leading the team in scoring, but like Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah, okay. D tier for sure. I don't know if I'd put them at the bottom of the D tier. So do you want to put them ahead of Kevin Hayes and Clayton Keller?

Yes. Yeah. Both of them. Okay. All right. Okay. I think this is the worst all-star pick of the bunch, but I get it. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't know why you would not go Zegras other than either some sort of behind-the-scenes thing or Yeah. My assumption was he was like, I did it last year when I wasn't even on the team. Like, let's not. Right?

Because he didn't make. You can't, you can't, like, I get if you're Roman Yosey and you're like, hey, man, I don't want to go. I want the weekend off. But you can't be doing that when you're, you've been in the league for three years. Well, here's the other thing. The guy was on the fucking cover of the video game this year. Yeah. Exactly.

And he's not the All-Star? What are we doing here? This is crazy. This is an insane choice to me. I get that Zegris doesn't have as many points as Troy Terry, but like, Troy Terry will never be on the cover. I'm confident in saying Troy Terry will never be on the cover of the NHL game. Trevor Zegris was this year.

They couldn't find a way to get him into the All-Star game. It's crazy to me. We got one last one here. It's Vladimir Tarasenko. Low B. I see. Are we in that? Like, I mean, the star has definitely faded in the last few years, but there's still some star power here.

There is. Again. Is he even going to play? Like, he's hurt, right? Like, he's, are we getting swapped, right? So, yeah, I don't know. So let's go high sea, and nobody will be mad at us because. All right.

I can't, in good conscience, put him ahead of Saros or Allmark. Do you want, or Larkin, as a matter of fact. I'll put him below Larkin and ahead of Nassim Qadry. Does that make sense? I could put him ahead of Larkin if I had to, but sure. I think we... Larkin's the captain of an original six big market team, like, very popular. I can't put Tarasanko ahead of him.

But you know what? Now that I'm looking at it, I can't put Allmark ahead of Soros either. Soros is like a legit Vesna guy more than once, you know? Yep. So, all right, that's it. We're done with the tiers. I will now read the lists in order. And you tell me if you want to make any last.

minute changes here. Okay. Number one, Connor McDavid, number two, Sidney Crosby, number three, Alex Ovechkin,

number four, Kelmachar. Those are all the S tiers. I'm good. I think, I think that works, yeah. Okay.

A tier. Kuturov, Carlson, Kaprizov, Robertson, Patterson, Hughes, Shasurkin,

Thompson, Kach. I'm, yeah, I'm okay with that. I, it's one of those things, Shatirkin. I got to be honest with you.

And I feel like I almost feel, and I know I was pushing big for Carlson, but when I hear it read out, I almost feel like Capriza's a spot low, but I'm okay with it. No, I think Carlson ahead. Do you want to move, are you good with moving Shisirkin, up one, and Hughes down one? Yeah. Sure. Okay. Great. Perfect. Perfect. Uh, B tier. Tier. Mitch Marner, Johnny Goddrow, Andre Svetichnikov, Brady Kach, Maddie Baneers. Yep. Okay. That seems fine to me, yeah.

Yeah, I agree. C tier. Saros, Allmark, Larkin, Teresenko, Cadry Jones, Fiala, Morrissey, Suzuki. Yes, and

hearing the two tiers together, you could even talk me into bumping Soros up to the low B tier. But I'm... You know what? I'm okay with that. I'm okay with doing that. I think that's more than fair.

Again, the guys had, like two nor or uh... vesnik halver seasons so it works for me single-handedly got the uh the predators into the playoffs last year again is he the biggest star on that team no but like i i think i think you can make a real good case for sorrows to be a b tier guy i'm good with that and then finally the d tier logan thompson brock nelson troy terry kevin hayes clayton keller Yep, I think that those are the right guys in the tier, and I don't know, I don't want to pick on. I can't put Troy Terry ahead of Kevin Hayes. Sorry, I'm not doing it.

Okay. All right. So there you go. That's it. So, yeah. That's, and then when they add the other 12 or whatever the number is, I think it's 12, right? Three more each? It's going to be three more each for fan voting.

So we'll. And by the way, that is plenty. I've seen some takes where people are like, we should just, oh, this guy got snubbed, this guy didn't. Oh, we need to add more spots to the All-Star. We got to have 15 players a team, 60 guys, 70 guys. Like, you are always going to have whatever number you pick, there's going to be somebody who doesn't make it that you think is in that group. We've got more than enough All-Stars. 40 is just fine.

We do not need more than that. And it makes sense, too, right? Because like back when they were only two teams, whether it's North America versus the world, East versus West, whatever, whatever fucking crazy concept you want to come up with next, that's like 44 guys you bring, 22 a team, right?

So to narrow it down to 11 a team and you're bringing four teams, that makes perfect sense. We don't need to overthink this, you know? So, uh, yeah, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll circle back and add the other 12 guys when they name them all. whenever that is. I don't know when that is.

But we'll do it. That's my solemn game. I don't even know. When is the All-Star game? Still a couple weeks away, right? February 8th, I want to say? Oh, my God. Isn't that the Super Bowl?

Probably. You know what? I don't know. You might be right about that. Hey, NHL, go head-to-head with the Super Bowl. You can do this. Man, they wouldn't even put the winner classic head-to-head. Scoring is up.

0.04%, man. This is your time to take down the NFL. The All-Star game is February 4th. So I was around it. I was close. You're close. All right. So,

yeah, we got a while to figure this stuff. And that means the Super Bowl is definitely not on the 8th because the 8th it looks like,

it's like a Wednesday. Do not put the new puck soup episode up against the Super Bowl. Please. Yeah, please. So 12 more players plus at least

8 to 10 additional injuries that will mysteriously happen. Ooh, geez, my shoulder. I don't know if I can do it. Yeah. So, yeah,

we'll circle back. We'll add all the other guys whenever. those get announced. I don't know when for, I don't know, probably two weeks from now, right? So, yeah. Anyway, we'll take another break. We'll be right back. A couple more things to talk about. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Athletic Greens and folks, what do I say? Every time we're talking about athletic greens. I start taking AG1, their main product in the morning. You know, really when I'm starting my day, because it makes me feel a little more pep in my step, that sort of thing. You know, I I'm not a morning person. This helps me kind of get there because I'm not a big coffee guy either. So, you know, a little more energy in the mornings. We're all looking for it.

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I did want to talk about Sean wrote an article, the tank index that he does. And what do you think? It seems like the tanking aspect of the season is really coming into focus in a way that it wasn't. Especially after the World Juniors where like Conradar just absolutely Runs over everyone. Oh my God. Yeah.

And so I do the tank index, which is not, this isn't just like who's going to finish with the best lottery odds. Obviously, we can just look at the standings for that. But this is more like. On the answer is Chicago. Exactly. Jesus Christ. This is more like, who's, in the best position to tank right now if they chose to, which means like, you know, do you have

guys you could trade? Do you have goaltending problems? Do you, are you bad in the standings? That does factor in. I mean, you can't be, you can't be 17th and decide to tank. It's too late. So, yeah, I do that. And originally I had, oh, shit, is that true? Yeah, when I did this in November, I had Anaheim and Columbus as sort of the surprises. But, uh, spoiler alert, it's Chicago's to lose at this point. For sure, yeah. They are doing a lot of losing.

Yeah. Oh, boy, are they? Yeah. I guess what do you think, though? Like, it maybe looks like they're not going to end up trading Cain, but they still might trade Taves, and then they obviously have a few other guys like Max Domey, who they signed on a one-year deal.

And they'll move him, and he's playing well. He is. Although there was an article, I think it was on the athletic that was like, they might keep him actually. They like him. Well, I think it's more they might trade him and then he might come back in the summer because I think he's just on the one-year deal. I think you, I mean, I still think they trade Kane. You know, assuming he's healthy and everything like that. But obviously that's up to him.

Kyle Davidson is going to trade everybody. if he can. He's been pretty clear. And I mean, geez, they won a couple of games over the weekend, but their winning percentage started with a two heading into the weekend. That's insane. Yeah. In this end of the show. That's crazy. But I saw him play this weekend. They're in the middle of a six-game losing streak. The Arizona coyotes are very well positioned to absolutely shit the bed, especially because

they're going to trade Chikrin. Now, they're going to ask for the fucking moon to get them, but someone is going to talk themselves into we're a Jacob Chikrin short of being whatever we think we are. Oh, absolutely. I mean, there was a post at the athletic where

they basically said, like, Ken Holland has to go get Jacob Chikrin now. Not at the deadline. Who wrote this article? I don't know if that was, if that was Willis or D.O. But I guess what I was saying was was it an Edmonton person who actually like follows the team? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was it was like a, this is going to be a disaster if they missed the playoffs and it's time to go make the move. And like when I, when I'm doing the tank

index, when I look at guys who are going to get traded, obviously you want to trade guys so that you get picks and prospects and all that. But I'm more looking like, who's going to make them worse? And you're right. Like Jacob Chikrin, when I did the first of these in November, he had barely played. So taking him out of their lineup wasn't going to make them worse. now he's you know he's been good so yeah don't trust the goaltan again the coyotes are definitely charging up the list and and them getting shut out by the black hawks was like a real hey this is this is still our house moment like you know you've we've been tanking for seven straight years um i was born tanking by the way john scott was seven years ago

i looked it up man wow i don't like that no no i do not like that no i do not like Passage of time. Boom. Yeah. Stop that. Yeah. I mean, they got some guys like, I think someone will talk themselves into Nick Ritchie. I think someone will talk themselves into Shane Gostis Bear, you know?

And I'm not sure how much those guys all really move the needle on making the coyotes much worse, but they know what they're doing. The problem with the coyotes is they have been significantly better in. the first half than I thought, in the sense that I thought they were going to be historically. Absolutely dog shit. And so they have, you know, you talk about a playoff worthy team, but hey, they, you know, can they make up the ground? They've got ground to make up the other way. So I don't know. But yeah, they are, they are right there.

Here's who they could trade to instantly make themselves extremely fucking bad is Carol Vomelka. This guy is awesome. He's so good. like statistically he's uh you know right around the league average like save for signage wise or whatever but like i was at that coyotes game this weekend and the penguin scored three goals like he didn't have even the slightest chance on any of them you know so i think like he's signed for two seasons after this one but if i was a team that was like boy i need a goal I don't want to pay a ton for him.

Like, I'd be seriously thinking about, like, do I want to pay, maybe not Jacob Chikrin prices, but like a high price to get Carol Vemelka, I would really think about it. I think that, I think that's a really good goalie. I think you can, you could certainly move him. The other piece with him is he leads the league in shots faced right now. Dude is getting sheled. And I don't say this as a knock on him, but if he really started to fade down the stretch, would not shock me, which again, good news if you're Arizona as far as tanking.

But like, boy, if you're, if you're the, like the Kings, for example, and you're like, I don't know about this goaltending situation. And I don't want to pay Jacob Chikrin level prices to improve my team. I think Vamelka's like a guy who can, who can make a difference for you in a way that, you know, especially if the coyotes are willing to take back a bad goaltending contract. of which you have two if you're the kings you know um but yeah i i think that if they if they are really wanting to be like forget it i mean because the thing is ramelka's 26 it says uh that's kind of like not necessary i mean that's not old for a gole it no and it's but it's also a lot like

this is our gole of the future age you know what i mean like so so you're kind of in that kind of no man's land middle ground thing where you're like, I couldn't see it going either way if they decide to keep him or not keep him. But, I mean, because he's going to be like 30 when they're any good again. So at that point, like, you're probably thinking we've drafted a few goalies who we want to give a runout for. I don't know. I love that he's got like a career 900 save percentage, which is not great, but into, you know, today's league, that's fine. But he's got the career 355 goals against.

That's some early 90s numbers there. I like it. I'm going to very quickly here look up his... Yeah, he's saved six and a half goals over expected this year. Yeah. Being a dead league average goalie. Yes. That's unbelievable.

Just on a terrible team. This is... Yeah. How she goes. But yeah, I really like the coyotes to make up some ground. on Chicago, especially if Chicago can't move the guys with the no moves. But anyway, one last team I wanted to talk about here, and we kind of alluded to it earlier, oilier, ha ha, ha, the Edmonton Oilers are in a fucking tailspin.

Like, maybe not like in terms of how they're playing, but in terms of how they are being perceived, they are in a fucking tailspin. Yeah. Like, they lost six, three to the Kings. They lost three, two to the avalanche in overtime. In a game, they led to nothing in the third period. Right. But look, they're the avalanche, you know?

Like, ask the Panthers how easily the avalanche can fucking turn it on, you know? Well, that's the thing that scares you as an oily fan, because it felt like the avalanche were just like, all right, we're done messing around now. We took 55 minutes or 45 minutes of the game off. Now it's time to turn it on and just. Yeah. blow past you. Yeah, I mean, the thing with Edmonton is,

it's, as the Western playoff race kind of takes shape, you're sort of sitting there going, wait a second, like, they may, first of all, they may be a wildcar team. They look like they're walking, because, I mean, they'd have to catch the Kings, which I don't think is completely out of, uh, yeah, out of the realm of possibility. But it's, you know, the Kings are pulling away on.

them. Vegas and Seattle have pulled away on them. So right off the bat, you're saying, you know, that's a first round matchup against Vegas or maybe Dallas, which is not great. But they've got, you know, Calgary is starting to make their move. Calgary is ahead of them. And then you've got St. Louis and even Nashville. And, oh, by the way, Colorado's sitting there. And Colorado's making the playoffs. So that means there may be one spot, assuming L.A. or Seattle don't fade, which again, I could see it, but they've had it their record. It's one spot for Calgary, Edmonton, St. Louis Nashville. Yeah.

And I don't think, I think Nashville is the worst team in that group, but Nashville's got the best record right now as we're recording this. And if the Oilers miss the playoffs, it's an absolute S-tier level catastrophe, me using terms of that. But yeah, no, like, I think that's inarguable. Like, if they miss the playoffs with Connor McDavid on like a hundred and fifty point pace, like, I don't, there aren't enough guys for you to fire that would satisfy people. Like, you could go, oh, we're trading three quarters of the roster. We're basically only keeping McDavid and dry sidel. And maybe like Zach Hyman or whoever people also like over there, you know,

we're firing the coach. We're firing everyone in the front office. People would be like, right, but like the Oilers missed the playoffs last year. That's not enough. Yeah. I mean, the Ken Hall and pressure is definitely ramping up. And we should say, Evander Cain's on the way back going to play soon. So that is going to be a big, big addition.

They have been missing him. But yeah, they, they, the blue line is not great. The goaltending is what it is. I don't think you're going to address that during the season. Well, I mean, that's the problem, right? Like, the goaltending is what it is. You can't address it during the season. And you just signed a guy who sucks for five years at $5 million per.

Yeah. He's awful. Mm-hmm. Which, he's having an awful season. Which, again, is going to, yeah, I mean, the Ken Holland thing is, again, the pressure is there. And as I said, there is, you're starting to see it turn. to not what are they going to do at the deadline, but what are they going to do now?

Because they are at the point now where a bad week where they go 0 and 3 in regulation tips this from potential crisis to full on crisis. So. Yeah. So I wrote about this over the weekend. Everybody's like, oh, they need to go out

and get a defenseman. They need to go out and get a defenseman. I don't know. I mean, who's putting the puck in the net on that team? You know what I'm saying? Like, the answer is McDavid and Drysidal, period. That's it. Like you said,

Van der Kaine's coming back sometime in January. But now I can't remember what the stat I saw. I found when I was writing about this this weekend. First of all, it's so funny that I have like an annual, what are they going to fucking do? They're in huge trouble. Like, it's just, and I wrote it this weekend. But.

Let's see if I can. Okay. They've been on the ice for 77.7% of all Oilers goals, McDavid and Dryside. Okay. That's insane. That is, yep. How is that the number? 77% or 78 almost percent of the fucking goals?

Which, I mean, yeah, that tells you two things, right? it tells you not enough depth, not enough balance in the scoring, but also you've got two of the best players in the world going, I mean, one of them is going psycho mode, and the other guy is going whatever is a level above that. It's wild. Dom still has them as 60% to make the playoffs. Because they are Connor McDavid and Leon Drysidal,

and they're going to get Kane back. So this is the other thing. So more likely than not to make the playoffs, but also 40% to be. the most disgusting miss of a generation. So this is the other thing. The Kane injury ruined their fucking season, basically. The way McDavid was playing when he had Kane to play with,

like just deferring to Evander Kane constantly, not constantly, but kind of a lot. Like, one point one goals or primary assists per 60 minutes. right that's a lot that's a good amount his goal scoring hasn't really gone up very much since uh since the cane injury but his primary assist per 60 has dropped like 60% because he just doesn't have anyone to fucking pass to right

and this is the interesting part this is the part that blew my mind before the cane injury macdavid was playing less than 20% of his five on five ice time with Leon dry sidel makes sense you want to break up your two lines, you have two lethal scoring lines in theory. After the cane injury, 52%, and that doesn't include their most recent game, so maybe that number's a little different now, and same with the 70-something percent of goals, but 52% of his 5-on-5 ice time is with dry-sidal post the cane injury, which says what to you?

What do you think that means? I think it means Ken Holland needs an extension. Well, I'm saying, like, for Jay Woodcroft, he's like, I have no fucking idea what to do. Mm-hmm. And Jay Woodcroft is a guy, like, a lot of people were picking him as a Jack Adams guy after last year, give him a full season and everything. He has not seemed, you know, the panel to kill is awful, which tends to fall on coaching. it's, yeah, what do you do if you're Ken Holland? Like, are you making an aggressive move right now?

Yeah, but you don't seem sold on it being chikering. Yeah, okay. I think, well, in part because the price on Chikrin is so fucking high that I think you can get a similarly impactful forward for a way lower cost, basically. And it might just be a rental. But because like who, so they're basically saying, like, okay, we're looking for left side defensemen. And if, and let's say we're taking Jacob Chikrin off the table because, like, you have to absolutely break the bank.

And maybe he wants to, right? But like, let's just take Chikrin off the table. Who are the other, like, two or three guys out there? Like Proverov is now getting discussed as a potential trade option in Philadelphia. Everybody's pissed off about how it's going there. Fair enough. Is Ivan Proverov turning around the fucking Oilers season? Yeah.

Not like Jake McCabe? No. Right? Like these are the guys, these are the big targets. And it's like, yeah, I guess I don't buy it with any of those guys as being like the thing that's going to fix the oilers. Whereas if they get someone who can make McDavid dangerous again and then like once Kane comes back play with dry sidel. Or you just kind of wait until Kane comes back. But with Kane missing, again, before they lost their last game, so it's gotten even worse now.

They're 13, 12, and 1 since the Kane injury. Yep. With two of the, what, five best players in the world, including number one with a bullet, it's crazy to me. It's crazy that it's gotten to this point. It is, yeah, it's a while. I mean, you talk about getting a forward. They're going to be on the Patrick Kane list, but we all. assume that deal isn't happening until the deadline because of just just because of the salary and

all that that that might not be enough time yeah and that's the other thing right like i think over the weekend elliot said like oh they want philip roberg to really maybe get a longer look uh you know as a middle payer and guy or whatever and it's like a if you think philip roberg is the solution to your problems you're out of your fucking mind but b like how much much longer of a look do you want to give this guy before it's like, oh, we're suddenly nine points out of the playoffs. Mm-hmm. I literally can't believe it's happening again.

I really can't. But it just goes to show if you're... But you sort of can. Well, it goes to show if you're a single Evander Cain injury away. He's not even your second best player. And if you're like, it all falls apart if we don't have this guy, that's how tenuous. It always was. So anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. But they're, I can't, I can't believe it. The Oilers have got it on the list of teams that it's fun to watch fail. The Oilers have got to be high. I know the Leafs are way up high on that list for people too. Of course they are. There's a handful of others, but it is as an outsider, it is fascinating to watch.

You got to laugh. It's that simple. All right, Sean. Why don't you hit them with your plugs? I apologize about my voice. I feel like getting very scratchy on me, so sorry. No, that's, you can find me out of the athletic. You can read my tank index.

You can read my weekly power rankings. Later this week, I'm going to have a mid-season update on that prediction contest. Surely, I'm running away with it. You are, you are. But it is still mathematically possible for people to catch you in the second app. Sure. And various other stuff. including my podcast with Ian Mendez on Thursdays on the athletic hockey show.

Yeah. And for me, EPRink side, use the code. I love EP at checkout and you'll get three months tacked on to the end of an annual subscription. Well worth the cost. We just went completely psychom. I think we still have like World Junior articles and analysis coming out. So like there's a lot going on over there. And obviously we didn't talk really about World Junior.

How did it turn out? Can you remind me? who won? I don't get the NHL network and it wasn't available for me to watch. Sorry, no spoilers. No. So, yeah, for me,

the thing to read this week is I went to Tempe and I wrote about the best players in the college hockey tournament I watched, there were a few drafted players and, like, highly regarded prospects and that kind of thing to talk about. I wrote about what the arena means for Arizona State

as a program. And then, of course, I wrote about what the arena means for people going to an NHL game there. So check that out. And then check out the Puck Soup Patreon as well. Because we got a ton of stuff coming up, as usual, including all the different fast foods restaurants that I ate at. We'll be discussed at length on this week's Stick to Sports.

So if you want to know about all the crazy fast food they got in Arizona, and they have a lot of it. Check it. Check all that out as well. Oh, and we're doing a call-in show. So if you want to sign up like a couple hours. That is tonight. It's tonight. Wednesday, as you're hearing this January 11th. Yeah, we just hop on our Discord and take calls from the listeners for a couple hours, and we always have a good time with it.

So check that out as well. And that's it. We're done. Thank you so much for listening again one more time. I'm sorry about how awful I sound. I'm pretty sick. Don't fly anywhere for any reason for, I would say, the next three months. He's playing through it, though.

Hey, you got to play hurt, you know? This is the NHL. Unless you're injured, you're in the lineup. Nobody's 100% this time here. Tell me about it. All right. Thanks, everybody. Have a good one.

See you later. Bye-bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, eats and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nonsense. Book two.