Puck Soup - Auston Shitty Limits

Episode Date: February 7, 2019

Greg, Ryan and Sean break down the Auston Matthews contract signing, what it means for boyish Mitch Marner and his contract while Marner's agent gets wacky. Plus, Sean and Greg sort out their Carolina celebration angst, the Super Bowl, Carter Hart, the Dallas Stars, Ilya Kovalchuk vs. Devils fans, which RFAs you think will get an offer sheet and Sean and Ryan take a very entertaining GRAMMY Awards quiz. Sponsored by Seat Geek and Robinhood

Hey, everybody, it's Greg. Don't worry. No one left the show. I wanted to let you know that the audio on the first maybe 14 minutes of this is going to sound different than usual. I had a garage band, a massive failure where I went back and listened to the file, and my wife was like this, which is great if you, you know, wanted Andre the Giant to be part of the show, but unfortunately, he's passed.

So the good news is that I had a backup. running and it sounds a little bit different, but it sounds still great. And then the audio, about 14 minutes of the show on my end, sounds superb. So everything's cool. And Sean and Ryan obviously have their shit more together than me. So everything's cool there. And I just wanted to let you know that. Also want to let you know, as Ryan discusses on this podcast, he's got a new tier on the Patreon where you can get a new newsletter from our boy, Ryan Lambert for only a few shuckles more than you're shelling out for the bonus content each month. It's awesome stuff. He's really excited about it and I'm excited for him. And that's it.

Thanks Austin Matthews for signing your contracts. We had something to talk about and enjoy the show. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tools. It's your weekly bowl of Huggian and sent Puck Soup I'm Greg Wysinski of ESPN I'm Ryan Lambert from Yahoo Hello I'm Sean Maganoo from The Athletic

Indeed you are And you're in Puck Soup where Thank God You know I have another podcast And it was during that very podcast That Austin Matthews put pen to paper And signed his new five-year contract So we went and put on the breaks and stopped our podcast for like a half an hour.

So I'm very happy that the news of the week broke before we all got together. So we could talk about the biggest story to ever hit Toronto, Mitch Martyr's agent walking back his comments. Like fucking Michael Jackson at the Motown 25 celebration. It is incredible what's going down in Toronto. Only in Toronto kids, as they say, could all this happen in the span of 24 hours. Yeah, it's, it's, so let's start with Austin Matthews because that's, that's the actual news. I, you know, I got to be honest, I was thinking all along that this was still going to be an end of the season thing, even as the reports kind of came in over the weekend that it was closer than everyone thought.

And so, I mean, to get it done is, is good. You know, you don't, I don't think anyone was legitimately worried about offer sheets or anything, but it avoids even having to get to the, that point. It gives them some clarity heading towards a trade deadline, although I think the Muzzin deal kind of rules out them doing much more than they would otherwise do. At the end of the day, I don't think it's an overpay, but it's not an underpay either. And it's kind of the similar to the William Nealander deal in the sense that it's sort of at the very upper level of what your comfort zone would be if you're a Maple Leafs fan. And it's, it's, you know, and that's fine.

Players should get what they're worth and get what the market says they deserve. But, you know, I think back to, you remember at the beginning of the season where there was that moment where Brennan Shanahan did the interview where he was kind of suggesting that players should take a little bit less and that when he got together with his old Red Wings teammates, they didn't talk about who made what. They talked about the Stanley Cup rings. Right. They all got together and said, and said, you know, guys, we made a ton of money before we got to Detroit. I think it's okay if we take a little less now. We're not 21.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Millions and millions of dollars in non-cap. In a non-cap league. Some of us, in fact, signed huge free agent contracts when we were Austin Matthews age. And the blues had to compensate the devils for it. But, you know, now that we've got

kids and we're pushing 40, let's all take a little bit less to make this all happen, shall we? So good old brand of he tried, he shot his shot, and I think it's safe to say it did not work and that the Leafs core is not interested in taking hometown discounts because you're going to have a situation where

whenever Marner lands at, you're going to have a case where you're going to have four guys in terms of the big four forwards who are all making pretty much the maximum that you would expect the player of their caliber to make. And then like Morgan Riley and then a bunch of guys who are going to actually get squeezed. So I think they can make it work, but it's a lot tougher now than it looked like it might

have been a few months ago when you were still, you could still entertain the idea that they might go a little cheaper on these guys. But I don't know. I mean, what do you guys think? Does anyone want to argue that it's, it's too much for us at Matthews at this point? I don't think anybody thinks it's too much. And so the way I see it, I guess, is that, you know, in much the same way as like Ovechkin set the market when he signed that the deal he's still on. And as a matter of fact, however many years ago, that's just what the max was forever. Right. And then you needed Taves and Kane to come along and raise that.

And like we can talk about whether that was a good investment for Chicago, I think. Probably it wasn't. But then McDavid came along and was like, no, no, no, this is what, like, the max number is. And, you know, you can talk all you want about how great Austin Matthews is, and he's awesome, but he's not Connor McDavid. So you can't say, well, he should get more than 12.5, like, from either perspective. You know, I think that you could maybe make the argument just because, you know, the cap's gone up since that McDavid deal. but it hasn't gone up so much that like it would make up the difference and so yeah i think matthews got exactly what he's worth more or less um you know within a hundred grand one way or

the other and that therefore like you know where you're gonna do you can't expect him to take a hometown discount because neelander didn't and and shouldn't have and if neelander's not going to why should Austin Matthews? So the question is, is that can you look at five years as the hometown discount? Because I think he can. I mean, I feel like what he did, every other player of his ilk and of his age group is signing eight-year deals. Yeah, but that's stupid.

But that's to me the discount. Like to lose that security, to lose that certainty, you know, to lose the opportunity to up your price because your team is buying UFA years more than the one he's giving up. Like, that's the discount for me. I don't, I don't think UFA years matter when you're as good as Austin Matthews. Like, he's good, he was going to max out regardless. But it's currency. But it's currency for the, it's, I'm saying that his price tag increases exponentially

if this deal gobbles up, you know, three or four are UFA years instead of one. Like, there's no question he gets paid more. That's just how the math works in the NHL. So I think five, to me, five years isn't discount. The money isn't, but five years is. Let's put it this way. Yeah, like his AAV, you know, let's say he gets McDavid money if he goes eight years, right? But now he's waiting five years to cash in again.

He's going to be, what, 26, 27 years old. He gets another contract with a new TV deal. Massive contract. With a new TV deal with the betting money coming in, all that kind of stuff. and so he then you know he can get a 15 million deal for

another 5, 7 years, whatever it is and he gets to like cash in again before, and this is the thing I think is really important, before everybody figures out, oh, we shouldn't give 29 year old seven year deals anymore.

So So a couple things. First of all, according to some of the reports that some of the insiders had, if it had been an eight-year deal, the asking price was a number that was going to start with a 13 or maybe even a 14. So the idea that Connor McDavid was a cap, at least as far as eight-year deals, it turned out not to be true. Because at least as far as the ask, you know, it wasn't like 12.5 was the starting point. You couldn't ask for more than that. Now, that's not to say he would have got it, but.

that's where the ask was going to come in. So clearly the fact that the cap has gone up, time has passed. Remember, Connor McDavid, they made a big deal out of saying that he left money on the table. So, I mean, if you're an agent, you're going to turn around and go, hey, it's not my fault. That Connor McDavid took less than everybody seemed to agree, deserve. So, you know, where I would disagree with Greg a little bit is I don't think him taking the five years is the discount. I think him taking five years is just two sides, both figuring out a way to do something that works for them and that is smart for them. because I'm on the same page as Ryan.

I think NHL players who are at this level where you're as close to a sure thing star, they should be taking shorter deals. They should not be signing eight-year deals. I'm not going to sit there and say Connor McDavid made some sort of mistake when he got $100 million guaranteed. But guys like that, if it is any kind of priority for you to make sure that you make as much as you can or as much as you deserve, you should never be taken an eight-year deal in a league with a hard cap where the cap goes up every single year.

You should be taking five-year deals, maybe less than that. You should maybe be taking, you know, following the NBA model and doing two or three-year deals and cashing in more and more each time. So it made a lot of sense for Austin Matthews. It would take something almost bizarrely cataclysmic to happen to him over the next five years for him to have ended up leaving money on the table by doing this. Even if he's hurt and he suffers a career-ending injury, presumably he's got an insurance policy that's going to pay him tens of millions of dollars in that event.

So, I mean, he would have to really hit some sort of wall as a player that it would be almost unprecedented for him to look back and say, I lost money by doing this. What you're essentially saying is bet on yourself. Bet on yourself, absolutely. And I cannot understand why more players don't do it. I mean, I know we've been talking about in comparison to Austin Matthews. You'll look at some of the other deals that are out there, the Nathan McKinnick's and the David Pasternak's and, And obviously, you know, these things evolve

And what the landscape looked like two or three or four years ago Is not what it looks like now But like I can't get my head around Why somebody like a Nathan McKinnon Who had been a little bit of an underperformer The first three years of his time in the league Decides to lock in on a seven-year deal Instead of betting on yourself and saying,

You know what, give me another three And by the end of that three, I'll be an MVP candidate Which is what it turned out to be. Which is really weird Because if you remember, like, that was around the same time that Duchenne took the bridge deal. And Duchin took the bridge deal because he knew he couldn't get the money he was looking for at that point because he kind of had been shit in the bed as a player. So he and the Avalanche were like, let's take a short deal. Let's see what your numbers look like.

And he ended up, you know, proving himself worthy of a longer and more lucrative contracts. I mean, McKinnon should have just taken that fucking lead instead of taking the long term deal. You would think. And I know everybody says, well, you know, it's guaranteed money. It's guaranteed. it's as close to guaranteed you're still getting another contract. You're not going to wash out of the NHL. I know, yes, okay, guys can get hurt.

There can be some scenarios. But the odds of that happening are so small versus the odds that in a few years, based on your improving play as a young player and the cap going up, you're going to be worth so much more than that. I totally get white guys that are taking eight-year deals when they're 28 years old. 100%.

For sure. At that point, you want to get it. every year that you can. And that's why, you know, part of this, the reason it makes sense for Austin Matthews is not only is the cap going to go up, but he's going to be 26 instead of, you know, 28 or 29. And that can make a big difference as far as, as far as where he'll be in his career. So. And show me, show me that John Tavares courtship for a 26-year-old Austin Matthews. They're going to be fucking hiring Taylor Swift to come play concerts for this motherfucker to try to

have him to come play for their teams. It is going to be, like, to the, I'm going to go to your agent's office and put on a Blu-ray so you can see how lovely our town is. That is going to be the version 1.0. The circus around Austin Matthews, Unrestricted Free Agent, is going to be version 55.0. It's going to be fucking amazing how teams, like, just bend over to get him on their, on their roster. It would be fucking great. I want a family feud question real quick. Top one answer on the board.

I asked the 100 people. If you showed the picture of Austin Matthews signing his contract with Kyle Dubus to 100 sports fans, not hockey fans, but sports fans, what percentage of those hundred people would think that Kyle Dubus was the player? And Austin Matthews was the GM. Yeah. You know what? It would be pretty high. And I think he was wearing the glasses in the photo, so that may knock it down a bit. That's true.

Like, if you're wearing glasses that means you're smart and accomplished, so you might be the executive. Yeah. But that Vince von quaff that Matthews has is starting. It's getting there, folks. Yeah, that was everybody's big takeaway. Everybody saw that picture and was like, my man's going to be doing play ball in like a year or three here. Like before the end of this contract, he might look like Getslap.

Yeah, I was going to say, it's one thing to have Getslap's hands. It's another thing to take the rest of his game. No, but seriously. I would say about 80, I would say 72 people would say that Austin Matthews was the GM. If you just showed it to like a guy who watches the Super Bowl for the commercials, like 72 people of that group would probably say that Austin Matthews would probably say that Austin Matthews would be able to pick Austin Matthews out of the lineup. Yeah, exactly. All right, switching over to the Mitch Marner part of the saga.

I don't know why more people aren't talking. talking about the fact that, like, what, what, I mean, we all know whatever Matthews decided was going to affect Marner, right? So like, by not taking the max deal, that means Marner can't take a max deal, by taking the money he took, that means that Marner's cuts going to be, whatever it's going to be. Like, I feel like he's got every right to be sort of pissed off about how this whole thing worked out, but maybe not to the point that his agent was pissed off this week. talking to, I believe it's the Toronto Sun, saying, last summer they low-balled Marner and kind of criticizing the Matthews contract

and kind of being a general dick about things. And then less than 24 hours later, going on every morning show in Toronto, talking to every newspaper reporter in Toronto, and walking back his comments. It was fucking spectacular to watch the way that this thing turned. Sorry, sorry, I'm trying to remove it. my client gets mad at me. Sorry, sorry.

Like, that's really what it was, was he said something that he was like, I, you know, I have to get the best possible deal for my player. Here's how I'm going to do it. And then the player was like, what the fuck are you doing? Shut the fuck up. And he had to then go and apologize. And, you know, that was all taken out of context. And I'm actually, I actually love what it's going to do for, for. for Mitch Marner.

Okay, buddy. Yeah. Sure. And look, here's like, so here's some context if people haven't followed this, this whole kind of Mitch Marner thing. And it's,

it's context and it's also the reason why I don't think he does have any reason to be unhappy about the, what, what just happened with Austin Matthews is that Mitch Marner and his agent have been very clear all along this process that they do not want to negotiate, uh, until the end of this season. They,

they have, they, they didn't want to negotiate last summer. They have played that annoying card where they say that they won't do it during the season because it would be a distraction. I guess Austin Matthews has been distracted this year and can now focus. That's why he's playing like shit and he's so bad. Yeah, he's been awful lately. You can tell it's really been wearing on him.

And look, Mitch Barner has every right to do that. You don't have to negotiate any time if you don't want to. You can, as a player, you have a certain ways to gain leverage and you should take it. advantage of every option that you have. And I think in his case, it makes perfect sense to wait as long as possible. A, because you wanted to see what happened with Austin Matthews and let him set the bar. And B, because you want to play a whole season next to John Tavares and rack up as many points as you can and make yourself as expensive as you can. So he's doing the right thing. And I don't object to that. I do object to treating us like we're idiots and pretending it has something

to do with focus and distractions, especially when, you know, you. You then, at this point, your agent turns around and just blows you up in front of, you know, in front of everyone, goes out to the media and with these comments about being lowballed and this and that. I mean, look, you knew what might happen with Austin Matthews. You should have known what options were going to be on the table. If your assumption was he was going to do eight years and 14 million and then you were going to slide in at 13.5, then I'm sorry, you miscalculate it. And that didn't end up being what happened. But that doesn't make it his fault or the Leaf's fault or somebody else's. Mitch Marner is going to be a really fascinating negotiation to watch.

I know that Matthews was the big one in terms of the interest around the league because he's the best player and he's a guy who's going to set the bar not just for Marner but for all sorts of guys. But Mitch Marner is a tough one because the thing with Matthews is there was never really a disagreement about what he was as a player or where he fit in. According to both the source that Craig Custinson and Pierre LeBron rely on, he is a rare combination of being a goal scorer and a center, which is almost verbatim in both of the reporting. So I'm going to just assume it's Don Waddell. There you go. So, yeah. So it's, you know, everybody seems to agree you've got Connor McDavid and then you've got the next tier down. And Austin Matthews is right in the mix on that next.

that next year. Right. There didn't seem to be any disagreement between the team and the player or any of that. It was just a question of saying, okay, in the year 2019 with the cap where it's at, what is the right number for a player who slots in there? William Nealander, there was some disagreement as to where he was as a player, but he was a few tiers lower to the extent that the difference ended up being in the hundreds of thousands. With Mitch Marner, like there is such a wide range of, I would argue, like plausible.

cases you could make. I think you could just look at the points and you could make a case without getting laughed at that Mitch Martner is every bit as big a star as Austin Matthews and every bit as productive a player. You could also look at things like the

position he plays and who he plays with and any sort of other numbers and make the case that he's a level or even two below and it's still a star player who should make a lot of money but isn't anywhere in that Matthews ballpark And I got to tell you, like, between listening to his agents.

This really reads as Sean the Leafs fan trying to astroturfus. No, no, no, no, because he should, like at this point, if you're a Leafs fan and you're hoping that there's going to be a discount here, it's obviously not happening. The thing that I don't think people maybe outside Toronto understand is between Mitch Marner, you know, Mitch Marner is this like lovable kind of goofball who looks like he's 12 years old. He's so cute. And scenes on the bench and everything like that. But his agent, you know, clearly his agent is, is willing to be a bit of a wrecking ball. And the other thing is his dad has had some comments over the course of the year about, you know, why isn't Mitch Marner being talked about as the next captain of the Maple Leafs and this and that?

Like, he's surrounded by people who are not going to drive an easy bargain, let's just say. Like, this is, this is good. If there's any scenario where I could see something's falling apart, part, and I could see maybe an offer sheet actually coming into play where a player is actually willing to sign one. I could see that happening here. This one could get ugly. An excellent point in the sense that Austin Matthews came from humble beginnings, living in the

desert, like Christ, you know, his parents just so happy he got anything in life, hockey wise. Mitch Marner, surrounded by hockey dads. Come on, Mitch. Come on, Matt. Coach, I'm sick and tired of you not. playing Mitch every shift. He deserves it. He's the best player in this goddamn team. Like hockey dads all over the place and it's going to be poisonous. Now, I don't think,

see, this is why offer sheets suck because he is logically the guy that should sign one to get what he's looking for. Like, he should do the Shea Weber thing, which is like, I understand that you have a bunch of people you need to sign, but I deserve my money, so I'm going to go to Philly and take some of Ed Snyders and then you're going to pay me whatever he decides to give me. Like, but he won't because that's just how fucking boring it is in this league about offer sheets, but he's completely the guy who should send his little Paul Heyman representative to the New York Gallators and be like, sir, my client Mitch Marner deserves Austin Matthews money and Kyle Dupus does not want to give it to him.

I'm not saying that won't happen. I'm saying it won't. Or I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying if it's going to happen with anyone, I think that's the situation where it could be. Because the Leafs, I mean, the Leafs are going to come. come back to him and say, look, here's the number we can do. And it's not going to be because they're cheap or because the owner wants to keep the rest of it in his pocket. It's going to be because they're looking at the cap saying, this is where we can go. And, you know, it's a scenario

where, yeah, like you say, Mitch Marner might say, that's not my problem. Here's what I've done in three years. Here's what I deserve. And I'm going to get that one way or another. And it, you know, And not only that, but given that apparently both his dad and his agent are maybe could use a little bit more media training. It's like, this is a scenario where I could see things happening where you start, like Mitch Martyr is a very popular player in Toronto right now. I'm not, I wonder how much it would take, how many more of these kind of situations it would take before you see some of the fans and media start to go like, wait a second. Is this guy, you know, is he, if he wants an eight-year deal, he's going to want more than the 11.6 that Austin Matthews got potentially, you know, is that, how's that going to go over? It's, like, if you're, if you're someone, I know there's lots of fans out there who, who can't stand the Leafs, they're tired of them. No, no, no, not the Leafs.

Come on, that's impossible. A far, really entertaining place when Leaf fans are miserable. I think it's the first time we've ever brought them up on this show. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. At least the 2019 leaves, it might be the first time we put them up on the show. Maybe, maybe.

If you're sitting there, like, rubbing your hands together going, I'm waiting for the big, you know, the big blow up, the big thing that takes this down. Like, Nealander, some people tried to force it. It wasn't that. Matthews, it worked out okay. This is the one where things could go bad. Oh, say that again, but like slowly and more sexually. The two things I'll say is one. you're absolutely right about Mitch Marner.

I always assume that he would be the kind of guy that's on the Canadian version of Tiger Beat magazine, whilst Austin Matthews is on the cover of Canadian cigar aficionado. And two, you know, the John Tavares thing is a really interesting thing in the sense that, like, you've got him for seven years, right? Six more after this season. Clearly he has something with Marner. So, like, doesn't, I think that actually puts, you know, even more value for Marner in the sense that, like, you, I'm going to be the fucking curry to this Gretzky for the next six years. And you need that. So I think that actually probably is going to help him. But Lambert, the thing that I keep on going over in my mind is that, like, Mitch Marner is not as good as Nikita Kuturov and Nikita Kuturov makes $9.5 million. Sure. But he also signed that deal. In Florida. Yeah.

And that, like, that, I think Bob McKenzie said yesterday, like, that can't be a comparable because, you know, it's tax-free. Yeah. And I don't know what the Ontario provincial tax is, but I'm sure it's more than zero. So. Well, it is more than zero, but I feel like that's, like, I don't know. It feels like there was a meeting about a year ago with all the hockey fans where we all got together and somebody was like, let's all learn about tax rates. And ever since then, everybody wants to explain every discrepancy. I'll say exactly where it happened.

It was Yager. When Yager went to Dallas and everybody was like, what the fuck is Yager doing in Dallas? And all of a sudden, somebody's like, hey, y'all know we don't have any income tax here. We're all like, what? And then we learned about Tennessee and we learned about Florida. We learned about all these places that are like that. That's exactly what it happened. Okay.

So, yeah, that must have been it then. Because ever since, like, anything that happens with anybody's salary or anyone cap, There's always somebody who, like, wants to jump in your mentions and remind you about the tax rates. So, yes, that is true. Just a couple things. First of all, these guys do have accountants. Like, a lot of them can work around and figure this stuff out. The other thing, keep in mind, like, I mean, the difference, yeah, Mitch Marner's going to be paying more taxes.

Mitch Marner is also going to be paying all of his expenses for where he lives in Canadian dollars while he's making U.S. dollars, whereas Nikita Kuturav is doing both in U.S. So there's different factors. There's different ways that things back. Alex out. Every now and then you hear someone, you know, say that they should, we should adjust the cap for different teams based on the taxes and this and that. And it's like there's so many other factors that go into this. Taxes is one of them. I don't know why we decided that's the only one that we seem to think matters. Yeah, they should adjust more things. You know what they should do? Everybody who's born in Ontario plays for the Leafs. That's what they should do today, except for Europeans. They go back home. By the way, Don Cherry should totally be a Hall of Fame. I don't know if everyone's. aware of that. I don't think, any time I brought that up, people are shocked that he's not already in. You made the ugh noise, Lambert.

Like, Don Cherry, if fucking Larry Brooks is in the Hall of Fame, motherfucker, Don Cherry belongs in the Hall of Fame. And I know I'm trying to corkillies this response, but honestly, like, fucking Don Cherry belongs in the Hall of Fame as a builder, without question. I don't know. It's one of those things where I feel like I would not even remotely disresumely. disagree if he had left hockey night in Canada and

just rode into the sunset, I don't know, 10 years ago. You know, but like he's just become an increasingly unhinged, just old weirdo. Like, in a way that I can't I can't deal with it. I hate it so much.

And it's the same shit, it's the same shit with Brian Burke. He's just like, whatever, 20 years younger, 30 years younger. But he's saying all the same dumbass shit and it pisses me off. Yeah, but in fairness, though, like, Burke, Burke doesn't, like, pepper his comments with the same sort of, like, fucking pink-o-combe political bullshit that Cherry does.

Like, it's a different form of curmudgeon. Well, it's all politics. It's all politics, though, because it's, it's like, I don't understand what these kids today are doing, and, you know, they should all just play the way guys played in the 80s and, you know, do cocaine and that kind of stuff. Like, it really bugged me. But hold on, but Cherry was such, like, he was, he was the epitome of a certain era in hockey.

Like, the fucking Rockham Sockham era, like, Cherry was the face of that. Like, to be, if it's the Hall of Fame, if it's the Hall of Fame, Don Cherry should completely be in the Hall of Fame. And you know what? Some year where the candidates are like, like the best candidates Matt Cullen or whatever, like he'll get in. Like, they'll need some fucking headliner to get it. into the Hall of Fame, so all the Ontario people come into the, do the weekend. But, you know, he should totally be in the Hall of Fame. I'm with, I'm with Sean on this one. I just, it sounds like we all agree, including Ryan, that Don Cherry should have been in the

Hall of Fame at least 10 years ago. Yeah. So, yeah, okay, good. Good talk. Good talk. All right, briefly on Marner. Um, okay, whatever his contract is going to be what it is, I don't think he's going to sign an offer sheet. We're going to talk about this later on the show. who is going to sign an offer sheet? Who is the person now that Matthews is off the table and the Arizona Coyotes have to cancel their bake sale to gin up enough money to try to give them an offer sheet? Like, who is the person that is an RFA that gets an offer sheet, most likely?

And is it Sebastian Aho? I mean, it should be Sebastian Aho. It should be like Matthew Kachuk, but this is going to shock you. Won't be either of them. Uh-oh. I mean, in the sense that it's not going to be anybody? Yeah, of course it's not going to be fucking anybody.

Oh, don't disappoint me like that. Don't disappoint me like that. The other way to look at it is, I don't know if it's going to be any of those guys, but if you're going to see an offer sheet, do you go after like the Casparic happening guys instead on capped out teams like the Maple Leafs where they're sitting there hoping that they're going to get him for $3 million next year and somebody comes along and says, we'll give you four and a half? And suddenly as the Leafs, you're sitting there saying,

we might not actually be able to afford this. So I could see something like that. I still think Marner is the most of the last. likely the most likely candidate. Do you say that because you don't think that point would sign one? Like to me, that's the one that if you're talking about the sort of advantageous, a little bit of bad blood types.

Yeah, I mean, like that's the one you can blow up their cap if you do it. You could. And you're right. I mean, and, you know,

we've all, I think, beat this drum often. But if this was really a league where everybody was trying to, their best to win, they would be targeting guys like that on teams like Tampa and Toronto. where you're saying, you know, even if I don't get the guy, I want to drive his price up and screw up the championship roster that they're building over there. Like, if you're in the Atlantic Division, you should absolutely be going after these guys.

But generally speaking, they don't do that. I think you need to have a situation where a team is tight up against the cap or against their internal budget. I think you need a situation where there's already guys on the road. There has to be some sense of, and I don't want to say bad blood, but there has to be some kind of antagonism between the player and the team for them to be willing to sign it. Because they know, yeah, I can maybe make a little bit more money, but now I'm the bad guy. Now I'm coming in as the villain on this new contract. Who knows what sort of bridges I might have burned with people in the organization. I think there has to be a little bit of that.

And I think that what makes Marner a bit more dangerous is he's going to look and see everyone else on the team is getting the upper. the upper level of what they should be getting versus, you know, with Braden Point, while it's, it shouldn't be a factor, he's going to look at a team where everyone else is making a little bit less, or in some cases, a lot less than they could be. And he's going to be sort of like, ah, geez, do I want to rock this boat or do I want to kind of go along, get along? Whereas Mitch Marner might be sitting there going, you know what?

No one else is taking a discount. Why should I? I wonder if Point would go to their wings if Iserman became the GM. That would be fascinating just to see. I mean, I don't, part of the reason we don't see this is because I still think any of these guys get instimatched. I don't think there's any scenario where even if it creates all sorts of problems, somebody offersheets Mitch Marner for 14 million. Kyle Dubas matches it instantly and then finds a way to, you know, hire somebody to throw Patrick Marlowe in the back of a van and, you know, and gets rid of Nikita Zite. He needs to call D. Lombardi. Lombardi's great at that shit.

Yeah, exactly. Well, we used to, yeah, we used to have a guy in Toronto who could do it, but he went somewhere else. So there's, like, that's what you do. You don't, you know, you almost, you have to do it almost just in terms of building your roster with elite players, let alone the fact that this is the NHL and all these guys are fueled on testosterone and being the alpha and never letting anyone come into your house and take your player away. Screw them. I'll burn down my own house rather than let you come in and take something out of it. So I don't see any of these guys changing teams on an offer sheet. I could see scenarios where the big name guys I'm talking about,

somebody gets an offer sheet that's more than anything just designed to screw with another team's cap situation. Yeah, it's not going to happen. Come on. I know. It sucks. And the other thing, too, is that it does take two to tango. It does take one of these guys to sign one.

If they sign one to, like, bump up their financial price, it goes one of two ways. It's either it's like you're Shea Weber and it in no way affects your life for the rest of your career or you're Ryan O'Reilly and you become a fucking pariah. Like it's one of those two things. And the other thing too is that like a lot of times when when guys sign either RFA or UFA deals, there's all this other other inherent shit. Like, you know, Pherese and Souter signed for familial and geographic purposes. Tavares signed because he had a fucking leaves teddy bear when he was a kid or whatever the fuck. Like all this all this shit happens. because there's this sort of compelling reason for these guys to go.

And if you don't have a compelling reason to play for a Red Wings team that is in a multi-year rebuild and has some good young players but doesn't necessarily have like a path back to a championship, like if you don't have something where like your dad has a fucking gorty howt tattoo on his left butt cheek, like you're probably not going to go to fucking Detroit, no matter how much money they give you. So there's, and that tracks back to the problem. with offer sheets, which is that it's a good old boys network preventing teams from giving them out, and it's a good old boys network that is, you know, boys in the pond, hot chalk with their

mom that they don't want to go and fucking rock the boat by signing one. So it's just, it's a zero-sum game as far as offer sheets go. Just to make one other point, though, just keep in mind, we always think of offer sheets as being a July 1st thing or a summer thing. It doesn't have to be. I could definitely see a scenario with all these RFAs coming in and with the number from Austin Matthews being higher than I think a lot of people thought and raising all those boats around the league. I could see some guys going into the season without contracts. I think William Nealander to some extent showed a little bit of the way on that. If you get into the season, if you get into November and a guy doesn't have a deal and he's eligible for an offer sheet,

that's where I think you become vulnerable. Because at that point there is some bad blood and there is a sense of, look, a player can say, I want to play. Okay. I didn't have anything I could sign with this team. So I sign somewhere else. And if they match, fine. I just want to play. I want to get back in the lineup. And it sort of changes the situation. Like that was, you know, kind of what happened with Ryan O'Reilly. That is maybe the sort of circumstances we need to see versus, you know, just on July 1st, somebody calling up Patrick Laney or whoever and saying, you know, here's an offer sheet and they're going to go, well, no, I'm not going to, I'll, you know, thank you. I'll file it away. But I'm not doing that right now. Yeah. They're going to,

They're going to bribe Line A with V coins from Fortnite. So he can buy new outfits and shit. That's going to be his offer. Also, the thing I wanted to ask one more thing on Marner to my Leafs friend here. Let's say it does get contentious. Let's say that there is a contract impasse, talks breakdown, offer sheets being threatened. It's like early July. Who's the villain here?

Is it Marner? Is it as reps? Is it dubus if things go fucking sideways here? If generally speaking, fans tend to default to blaming the players incorrectly, I would argue, but that seems to be the way they go. Certainly if the people around Marner, his representatives, keep making statements like this to the media, I think you'll certainly see some on him. But there is also already in Toronto, some pushback.

on the Kyle Dubas era and just the idea that, you know, he has had two of these to deal with and he hasn't really squeezed any kind of discount out of either of them and took two months off the season for one of these guys to do it. So, I mean, it's, it's, I think it's going to be more on Marner than on the organization, but I think it'll be both. And I think it could, you know, it could get ugly, especially if, you know, there's a big difference if we're talking about the Maple Leafs fresh off of losing in the conference final versus the Maple Leafs fresh off of losing to Boston in the first round again. A lot of, you know, that, that, if they go out in the first round again, especially to Boston, there's going to be, Toronto as a fan base is going to be much more of a Tinder box than maybe you're, uh, it would be under different circumstances.

And Lambert, how much joy would you take if that happened? I, I don't, I don't give a shit about the Maple Leafs one or the other. I don't care. I mean, just from a pure drama standpoint, though, like to see the temperature on that gas grill get turned up to Kessel levels. Like, wouldn't it be fucking great? Sure, but like, I don't, I don't care. There's our boy. You know what I care about? I care about how much money these motherfuckers are going to get in free agency. And if they're going to get paid, you know what they should do?

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You know what? I don't know if it is or if it isn't. Here's the deal. I'm going to give you my take on the storm surge. Here it is. And I have a feeling that Hurricane fans aren't going to like this very much. And if they want to like, you know, skip ahead on the podcast or turn the volume down or something. Unless your take is it should be happening in Quebec, I think they're going to at least be interested to hear what you have to say. Well, here's why I don't think they're going to like my take. Because my take on the Carolina Storm Search celebration is it's fine.

that's it. It's fine. It's a thing that they do, and it doesn't bother me. I don't think it's the greatest thing I've ever seen, like some people do, but it's fine. I get the sense that fans, and not just in Carolina Hurricane fans, but fans around the league want you to have one or two views on this, either that it's the greatest thing you've ever seen, or that you can't stand it and you think it's some sort of a front

to NHL tradition, because that way they can get mad at you and tweet at you about old men yelling at clouds, which at some point apparently became the only comeback that we have on anybody who doesn't like something you like. Old men yelling at clouds has become the stay classy of 2019. Yeah. It's a shame because it's not always old men yelling at the clouds. I feel like it's sort of agist, to be quite honest with you. Yes, it is.

It's very offensive to old men like myself. My problem with it. But the thing with it, the reason that we're talking about this is because you and I a slight disagreement over Justin Bourne's comments this week about, if you were a guy in the locker room and someone is talking about, hey guys, so tonight we're going to do duck, duck, goose after we win,

like, you'd probably think that maybe they weren't on track to win a cup. And my response was, well, when the guy saying, let's do duck, duck goose has three Stanley cups and a Khan-Smife, like,

shouldn't that mean that this is a mutually exclusive notion? And then he went on to talk about how, like, you know, having to do duck, duck goose after the game, cuts into your postgame prep time. You know, you're not on the bike quick enough after the game because you're doing duck, duck goose. And all I'm thinking of is like, I've been in NHL locker rooms for 15 years. After the game, you're probably not on the bike until you jerk off all of the owner's friends that get to come into the locker room and meet you. Go down the hallway and say hi to your Russian buddies on the other team. There's like a fuck ton of things that happen before you get on the bike.

And the duck, duck, goose thing as a marketing tool to make the fans want to come back and pay me a DCU, like, number one billion on the list of shit that I give a fuck about after a game if I'm a player. Yeah. That was my take. You know what? And I don't disagree with that. I think the sheer fact that we're talking about Justin Bourne and what he tweeted about this, I mean, there was a whole Deadspin article based on his, like, two tweets, which was, you know, I generally like Deadspin. But that was, I mean, that was not a good article that they did because it was, you know, it was one of these things where they did that thing that everybody seems to want to do these days where you take something somebody has said, restate it into different words and then get mad at what they could have said if they had said what you had said. And, you know, and it's like it's, it's not, the guy didn't write a book.

He wrote a tweet. You don't need to summarize it for us. You can just, we can just read the tweet. You don't need to say it's as if he's saying and then say something that he's that he's not saying. I will just say this. When it comes to, you know, there's this, I know we all love the, you know, it's us against the world and the, you know, everyone is coming after us. Like, Carolina fans, really, the level of criticism of this thing has been so light that if we're writing deadspin articles about Justin Bourne's tweet, like, we're really scrapping for, for, for, to find people who object to this.

Because Justin, you know, his whole point, as I've understood it, was basically, you can't tell me there's not at least one guy in that dressing room who's not into this, which I think is a totally fair and true observation. Like, you can't tell me that there's not at least somebody in there who's like, okay, really, boys? We're doing duck, duck goose? Okay. I felt like he was painting it as there was some Ned Braden type sort of like cowering in

the corner as the Hanson brothers start smashing lockers of their fists. Like, it's fucking that idea of there being the, the virtuous one amongst the circus folk that finds us to be in a front to hockey. Like, I found that to be a little bit much. I didn't read it that way. The whole pushback on this has been, it was Brian Burke earlier in the year who did attack it. Like, he, I can't remember exactly what he said, but he called it like pee wee garbage or something like that. Yeah. Which was very, yes, I mean, that is a pretty over-the-top attack.

other than that, like I, maybe Don Cherry may have mentioned it and then we're down to like a Justin Bourne tweet. Like that's what the backlash has been. And even, well, that's,

that's the access of evil right there, born, Cherry and Burke. We all know this. Like, like we don't even have a Mount Rushmore here. We're still missing a face. Like we're,

that's, you know, I get like, you know, all these hurricane fans are like, it's us against the world. It's like, no, guys,

like, look, it's, it's Brian Burke attacked you once. He attacked you. you again this weekend, except he didn't really. Like, this was one of those things. I know Brian Burke's on late in the late game of Hockey Night Canada, which is only seen up here.

So I think what happens is Brian Burke says something. Somebody tweets out, oh, Brian Burke is complaining about whatever. And then everybody just fills in whatever they assume Brian Burke said. But his comments this weekend, when he addressed it again, were not very harsh. It wasn't anywhere near what he had said a few months ago. He basically just said he didn't like it. His entire quote. Yeah.

His entire quote was just prefaced with the word I. It was, I don't like it. I this, I that. And he even said, but if they like it and they want to keep doing it, fine. And to your point, it's kind of like when he's on the panel, it's kind of feeling like if you have Kathy Griffin on your talk show and you bring up Trump. Like, you already know what the fucking thing is going to be. And also, you know, at this point, what's the sense in rehashing it with Burke? And let's be honest.

It's Brian Burke. He's transitioning to a career in the media. He's new at it. He knows he's there to be a little bit provocative. And every now and then he's going to overshoot the runway a little bit. Like I think we can allow for that. But the thing is, every time this happens, every time they win a game at home and they launch their latest celebration,

I get maybe Brian Burke says something, you know, maybe Justin tweets something. And the entire rest of my timeline is flooded with people elbowing each other out of the way to be the first and the loudest to say how great it is. how much they love it, how all caps awesome this is. Like, if you're a Hurricanes fan, it's not you against the world on this one. Like, the world has got your back. It's fine.

You can take down Brian Burke on this. You're going to be all right. And like, look, nobody's, I don't think, spent more time over the last few years than I have banging the drum that the NHL is an entertainment product. It should be fun. This is about being fun, entertaining the fans if the fans don't like it. you know, none of the rest of it matters. Right.

So I'm all for fun. If there are people out there who legitimately watch 20 grown men play duck, duck goose and think that this is super fun and entertaining, God bless you. I'm not arguing with you. I'm not trying to take that away from you. I am, if that moves your joy meter, then good for you. I, I, then, you know, stay with it, especially if you're a Hurricanes fan because you're the, you're the target audience for this. If you guys like it, then, then that's, that's the end of the discussion. I'm just pointing out that there's some of us, maybe a lot of us, who are seeing this and just kind of going, okay, yeah, duck, duck goose.

All right. That's super fun. All I'm saying is that it should replace the mini-nets-it skills competition next year. Duck, duck, goose amongst the All-Stars, obviously. We could agree on the solution for a bit. And look, the one other thing, because here's the part where you and I did disagree is when you, it basically, you, you know, you. your argument was something along the lines of that if this was happening, not in Carolina,

but in Winnipeg or in Canada somewhere, that it would be viewed totally differently. It would. Thank you. Well, here's the thing. How would it be viewed if this was happening in Canada, which is the whole,

Godier and Brian Berger. I'll say, I'll say two things. First of all, it wouldn't play in Toronto because anything that ever happens that the least gets criticized. If it happened in Winnipeg, it would be part of the grand old tradition of like,

this is Canada's team that understand. The relationship they have with their fans is incredible. Look at them. Entertaining the boys wearing white in the crowd. If it happened in Montreal, it would be, look at this team, the Yankees of hockey, able to climb down off their ivory tower and entertain the fans like the boys in the pond that they are.

If you guys think that this would go over well in Montreal, you have never met any Montreal hockey fans. No, it goes over really well. in the English media and in the French media they'd fucking hate it. Like it was, you know, a Russian. Yeah, but nobody would know. We would just we just... Until somebody translates it. No one

would know. That's exactly right. No, but Lambert, you agree on the Winnipeg thing, right? Yeah, or Calgary or whatever. Like... Okay. It's just... It would just be a thing. Like, Christ, it doesn't even have to be in Canada.

If they did... If the New York Rangers did it, nobody in the hockey media would be devoting time on hockey. We wouldn't be talking about it for 10 minutes on this fucking podcast. They'd be the fun loving Rangers or the fun love and Wings. I don't know about the Rangers. Let me tell you why you're wrong about Canada, okay? Oh, okay.

Because the last time that we did this, the last time we had to have a national conversation about celebration etiquette was Nail Yakupov when he scored that goal and did the big celebration. Well, he's Russian. It doesn't fucking. He's Russian. It's because he's Russian. Neil Yakopov was playing in Edmonton.

And when that happened, the big... It's because he's Russian. The big controversy was Don Cherry went on TV and not only attacked him, but compared him to Theo Fleury and called Theo Fleury, who is not Russian, an idiot for how he had celebrated. And Theo Fleury did that in Calgary. So we've seen Calgary and Edmonton have the same reaction to this. He can't turn around and go, in Canada, they would be fine with it, because we've seen it.

And it didn't happen. Well, first of all, it's any, it's any non-traditional hockey market. If it's a traditional hockey market, everybody's fucking cool with it, period. So Edmonton and Calgary are non-traditional hockey markets? No, no. Again, you're getting, you're citing a, I think, 48-year-old example of John Cherry, shockingly getting mad at a European player for doing something. And like...

This was like five years ago. You see what I'm saying. Like, you had to reach back into the bag a little bit here. And like, yeah, okay, he didn't like Theo Fleury. What did Theo Fleury do? Oh, was he a little bit outside the box in terms of how the NHL usually conducts itself? I would say he is. Isn't that interesting?

He's small. Yeah. No, I think... He was like... The other thing, too, about this narrative, Leah, like, is that if you're a team on the way up, as are the Carolina Hurricanes. Like, if this... If this was a team on the way up in Winnipeg. If this was a team on the way up in Calgary, if this was a team, if this was Vancouver now, like, I feel like it would be viewed as a, as a celebration, as a celebration of youth, as a celebration of the relationship with fans, it certainly wouldn't be looked down upon.

I just feel contextually. I think, I think, like, Brian Burke and Don Cherry would be mad about it regardless because it's not guys giving each other concussions. But I don't think, I don't think it would be as much of, like, again, we wouldn't still be fucking talking about it on this. podcast for the 50th. But if you say, if you say Don Cherry and Brian Burke would still be against it, they're the only ones against it now. Like where else is this backlash coming from that we're finding on this, these poor Carolina hurricanes? There's nobody else other than a Justin born tweet that is going on the attack. So if you're going to count those guys as being against it, that's all you've got for this one. Of major media, yes. I mean, there's the question. If you,

if you look into the responses when this show, it happens on your Twitter machine, you're going to see some people that don't like it, but I'm not going to do some nebulous but Twitter doesn't like it kind of thing. I would say that it's definitely the minority in this situation. I completely agree with you. Can we just agree on this? Can we just not fucking talk about it anymore? I want to do one more point on it and then we can leave just because I'm doing that thing

where I can anticipate a really bad take that we're going to have to deal with a little while. If we can nip it in the bud, I think we should do that. this. Here's because you touched on this a little bit, Greg, and that it, the, the single worst take that's come out of this from anywhere. And Justin didn't say this, and I don't think Brian Burke and anyone said it, but I've seen it from a few random Twitter people. Is this idea that this has anything to do with them not being in the playoffs? You know, this idea that they're, you know, they're not doing duck, duck goose instead of watching tape. Right, yeah, right? So, you know, to turn around and say that, oh, they're not in the playoffs because they're playing duck, duck goose would be a catastrophically stupid. take. So can we please also agree that if this team that is a good team and should be in the playoffs finally starts getting some bounces and makes the playoffs that we're not going to turn around and attribute that to the fact that they're doing these celebrations? Because I guarantee that we're going to see some terrible, terrible columns written about how the Carolina Hurricanes found their smile and Justin Williams came in and they learned to love hockey

again and how Duck Duck Goose ended a 10-year playoff throughout. And it's going to be equally dumb. Can we at least, can I get your buy-in on that for when it happens in a month? Okay, I'll agree to that as long as we all agree, that when the Carolina Hurricanes are up 3-1 in the Stanley Cup final, and someone walks up to Justin Williams and says, Have you thought about what your celebration is going to be tonight if you win, that Justin Williams will then turn to that reporter and say, our celebration, who be hoisting that cup.

Perfect. And then Brian Bark will run out in cold cock him. Oh, wait, it's just the Williams. He'll just say, I don't have fucking time for this and walk away. That's right. I'm sorry. That's how Justin Williams usually handles these things. No, it's fine.

I understand it. Last thing on this, though, is that, like, when you talked earlier before about, like, Hurricanes fans are overreactive, it speaks to the Islanders discussion we had in the podcast recently. Like, they're shot upon. They're relocationed out. they're fucking hair trigger angry about any affront to the organization. Which they should be.

That's passion. You got to have your teams back. And I got to see that passion this week when I had the nerve to say that Devils fans shouldn't do Ilyuk and was told that I'm not a Devils fan for having said that because I pointed out logically that him leaving helped the organization fucking measurably versus having stayed there and being a decrepit former shell of himself and then leaving later on and having $5 billion count against the cap

and perpetuity. How much time would he still have on his deal if he had never? Let me cat friendly that real quick. But yeah, that's my shit right there. I just don't, I don't quite understand the logic behind being that salty about. And especially when fucking Lamarillo was

complicit in him leaving. They could have blocked him leaving the KHL. They could have told the, the double IHF to block the transfer. But they fucking did it because they knew at the end of the day it was advantageous to the Devils to still have him on the team. And to answer your question, Lambert, he was signed through 2025. But his salary, this is interesting.

I don't know if you guys know this, but his base salary dropped to $1 million in 2020, almost as if, and this is going to sound crazy to all the Hendricks-Letterberg fans out there, almost as if the Devils didn't anticipate he would still be in the NHL at that point. Crazy, right? That is crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I appreciate the effort because... I think the reason that Devils fans are so mad at I...

Kovilchuk is his departure coincided with the team totally going in the shitter. That's true. And not that that was his fault, obviously. Like, they weren't an Ilya Kovalchuk away from making the playoffs the last several years or whatever. They could... If he had stayed one more year, I bet they would have been all right. That was a pretty decent roster.

Well, sure, no, but I'm saying like he was, like, they wouldn't have just made the playoffs every single year since then if he's stuck around. And so, you know, I can see from their point of view why that sucks. But, like, also, yeah, like, that was five years ago or whatever. Who cares? Yeah, I did not understand this. And I was, I appreciate Greg's effort to at least try to explain it. because I, it seems very strange to me to boo someone for doing exactly what you should have hoped. And retroactively, you know, like, boo you for leaving and then coming back as an unproductive player.

Yeah, this was costing a lot of money to another team. This would be like Chicago fans getting really mad if Brent Seabrook waved his no move clause. Yes. Exactly. that's a great point bitch what a traitor tr a d er trader yeah he could he could have stuck it out

and finished five to four points out of the playoffs and perpetuity but no he had to go no I agree and like it made me nuts and I felt I felt like I got through to some of my brother in but I think a lot of them were just like fuck that guy I think Lambert's point is correct but I also think that like

if you're pissed off about the Ilya colvichuk thing be fucking pissed off at Jeff Vanderbeek then the owner who went to Lula Marillo and said, sign this guy by any means necessary and Lou's like, Eh, rat, have an illegal contract. And then they signed under an illegal contract. The team got in trouble. They signed him to another bullshit contract and get mad at the NHL for then turning that

bullshit contract into a toxic asset through the CBA because Betman got fucking pants by his own general managers and owners with these bullshit long-term deals. And then they had to get back and get petty and turn all of them into toxic assets like Loongos and Colvichucks. Get pissed off at him. get pissed off at Vanderbeek, get pissed off at Lou. Don't get pissed off at Ilya Colbache before putting pen to paper to say he wanted to be a devil.

And get pissed off at the devils for even making the fucking trade to begin with because they had a number one left wing in Zach Perise. And then he got pissed and went to Minnesota because he was fucking Colvichuk there. So I get pissed at all those people. Don't go piss of Colvichick. Greg out. Amen.

Rack him. All right. Before we move on, I wanted to talk about the super. Super Bowl real quick. Lambert, you're in New England. How are things? Well, I...

So I had to go downtown yesterday and didn't realize that where I needed to go was right next to the parade route. So I got hassled by three different cops for trying to cross a street. And then I saw, I think, four fights. Now, why are they fighting? I didn't say the big brawl that made dead spin, but I saw four like one-on-one like just clearly guys who knew each other,

but also got mad at each other for some reason. I was hoping it was intra-patriots fan fighting between Tom Brady fans and those saying that he had fuck all to do with the Super Bowl win. But apparently it was just probably just alcohol-fueled. Yeah, no. The best fight I saw was two guys started throwing hands in like in front of a CVS or something. and one of them was holding his phone while it was happening. So, like, he reared back to punch, and his phone went flying into the middle of the street and got run over by a truck.

Oh, man, I was hoping you were saying he was punching while his phone was filming, so it was like hardcore hairy. Like, there's a first person punching kind of thing. No, no. His phone went flying, and, like, it quickly got broken up, and he had to, like, sadly go into the middle of the street and pull up his crushed phone. Very good. I got to say, like, I obviously hate the Patriots with every fiber of my being. I hate that, you know, Connor of ESPN called them the greatest dynasty in sports history when the Celtics and the Canadians are right here.

But I have to say this. In reading about what Belichick did to win that game, where he knew that the communication between Sean McVey and Jared Gough cut out after 15 seconds. So he showed Gough one defense for 15 seconds and then switched to another defense. like once that communication was over so he had no notes from his coach on what the fuck to do that's amazing

I think other teams have done that the Falcons I think did it too but like that is so fucking brilliant and when you watch that game and you think about how bad golf was that that's it like they just they you know they took the thing that he was so used to

for you know 16 weeks and two or three playoff games and then just fucking trashed it it was great as a fan of defense as a fan of entertainment it sucks. For me, for me, you know, as a real hardcore football head,

you know, I really, I really enjoyed, you know, there are a lot of people who said it was a boring Super Bowl and that a game with 514 punts is bad. Yeah, no. You know, these are people who just can appreciate a good 13 to 3 football game. Right. As a big sportsball fan, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like, there have been great 13. to three games. Like, here's one example from 30 years ago, and I don't have any others, but,

oh, they can absolutely, you kids today needing your touchdowns and your entertainment. Well, I think part of it was that the entire season leading up to this game was, like, arena football. Like, it was all offense all the time, and it was fucking spectacular. And then, and it's the same thing as we talk about in hockey all the time, not to bring it back to the sport that we cover on this podcast. But they, you know, when we talk about how, like, great the offenses and we'll run and gun and look how fast the Leafs are and all this other shit. At the end of the day, it's going to be a two one game in game seven. Like it always is a two one game in game seven.

Like, it's just how it is in these sports. So I think, I think football fans were hypnotized into believing that offense was going to rule at the end of the day without remembering that fucking Bill Belichick is coaching in the Super Bowl. So it's not going to happen. But it was, it was, I was drunk. It was fine. Listen, if you want to go see a football.

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be done with it. But the fact that they're even asking kind of makes, gives me, like, I think I have to stick with ET because that would have been the highest grossing. film, I think, right up until Jurassic Park, right? How far back are we going? Was it just the whole 1980s, the entire 1980s? The 1980s. Yeah. So yeah, it's got to be Spielberg. It's Spielberg. It was in fact, ET, but Tim Burton was like the, it was a savage question. Savage question. And because Tim Burton was the one that people said, I think because they remembered Batman and either didn't remember that Batman was part of a longer series or they thought that Peewee's Big Adventure was about. I don't know what the fuck they thought, but like it was definitely. It was definitely. Definitely E.T. Everybody loved Beetlejuice, Greg. Remember, you couldn't go around anywhere without seeing beetle juice for like nine straight months in 1986? It was, I mean, the beetle juice effect was incredible. Not only did Zagnut become the highest grossing candy of that year, everybody was dressing like Alad Baldwin.

Everybody was creating model train sets in their attic. The huge calypso resurgence because of the scene with Shakespeare. I mean, that actually did happen come to think of it. Yeah, everything happened around Beetlejuice. It was Beatlemania all over again, Lambert. Okay, so my question is, what would be the John Landis movie that, like, we think is... I mean, I imagine it's probably like coming to America or trading places. I always say trading spaces now because of that fucking home design show.

But trading places would be the things that they were probably talking about with John Landis, right? Well, or Blues Brothers, if they didn't remember. Well, Blues Brothers did come out in 80, 81. Yeah, it was like early 80s. Yeah. Well, sure, shit wasn't his segment on Twilight Zone the movie. Seekek is the way to go. Seekykeek pulls millions of tickets into one place so you can easily find the seats you want for a price you're willing to pay.

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I'm going to leave the show in your hands for a second, boys. Would you rather talk about the surging flyers and stars and Blackhawks, or would you like to take my pop culture quiz? Let's go with the quiz. All right, here we go. So as you know, everybody, the Grammy Awards are coming up this weekend. A very exciting time for all. The best and brightest in music. And also, Greta Van Fleet will be at the Grammys. And I wanted to construct a quiz from my podcasting partners about the 2018 or 19 Grammy Awards. Now, this is an interesting one because I know Sean has no idea about the Grammys.

But I also know that Ryan is a music snob that also doesn't have any idea about the popular features of the Grammy. So in a way, this is an equal footing quiz for my two guys. So the way it's going to work. A quick look behind the scenes here. Greg texted me the other night and said, oh, we need to come up with a Grammys quiz for Sean. And I was like, I don't know why you're asking me. Like, I'm sure that I've heard, I don't know, a handful of albums or songs that are nominated for Grammys. But like, as a real bar trivia guy, any time there's a popular music category or question, I just say, I've got to go to the bathroom, folks.

I can't answer this question. That's exactly why I married Ruby. She fills in that void for me at Bar Trivia. Also, I did check in Diarya Planet not up for a pop song of the year. So, you know, they were supposed to put out a record and then they broke up instead. So there you go. Well, there's the problem. We've diagnosed the issue. Okay. The way it's going to work is I'm going to ask, I have 10 questions and I'm going to ask one of you each question. So this is not like jump in an answer. I will address. the question to one of you. And this is called, is this person nominated for a Grammy this year, the quiz, colon, colon, the quiz. Are these all real people? Yeah, it's, it's all real people. It's all real people. It's probably could have got me on that one. It's like Tomash Flurgan. No, it's just all, and apologies to Tomas Flurgan. I'm sure he's a listener. No, these are all real people. Is this person or people nominated for a Grammy this year? All right.

Who wants to go first? I'll go first. Okay. Sean goes first. Is Allison Chains nominated for a Grammy this year? Okay. I've heard of Allison Chains. No, they can't, like, they can't possibly still be around and making music that would get nominated for Grammy.

No. Allison Chains is nominated for Best Rock Album with Rainier Fogg, which I believe is a reference to Mount Rainier from Washington State, home of grunge. Yes, Allison Chains is up for a Grammy this year. Or Sean is over one. In here for rock and roll, it sounds like. Not great. Ryan Lambert. Is Louis C.K. up for a Grammy this year?

I can't imagine that he is. I don't think he would have put anything out in the last 18 months or whatever. He's been busy with some other stuff. Oh, no, he's definitely put a few things out in the last year or so. The answer is, no, Louis K. is not nominated for a Grammy. He won in 2015 and 2011 for comedy albums, but not nominated this year. Thought perhaps the soundtrack to his Woody Allen-esque movie that is now no longer to be found within the realm of the world. It might have been nominated, but no, no nominations for Louis CK, that is correct.

We go back to Sean. Sean, is Weird Al Yankovic nominated for a Grammy this year? Oh, boy. You know what? See, that gives you access to the comedy category and the polka category. I feel like I'm going to say yes. I feel like the answer to that one is yes. That is absolutely correct.

It wasn't the poker category or the comedy category. It was, of course, the best boxed or special limited edition package, Weird Al Yankovic, squeeze box, the complete works of Weird Al Yankovic nominated for a Grammy this year. So Sean is now one for two. Ryan, Ed Shearin nominated for a Grammy this year. I couldn't tell. I'm going to say yes. I have no idea. That is correct.

Oh, wait. Oh, I just say yes. No, he's not nominated for Graham Minister. I'm sorry. I screwed it up. He didn't make it for the Game of Thrones song he did or whatever? Come on. No, it appears, well, I mean, it's very possible. Honestly, the entire familiarity I have with this work. The game, you know, Ed Shear and prolific singer, songwriter, but maybe this was a gap in his auver this year this year that he did not have anything Grammy eligible. But according to the Grammy site, not nominated in 2017, but not nominated this year for anything as far as. as I can tell. Sean, something more in your lane, I'm sure.

Is Joan Baez nominated for any Grammys this year? Joan Baez, to jogging memory, the CD that Alan Rickman gave Emma Thompson and Love Actually when she was expecting the beautiful necklace that he instead purchased for his mistress. Did you just try to explain a musical artist I'd never heard of to me by making a movie reference? Wait a minute.

Hold on. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You've never heard of Joan Baez? I'm sure I have, but it's not, yeah, I don't know. No. Joan Baez is definitely nominated for Best Folk album for Whistle Down the Wind. That sounds great. Do you want to hear a shocking revelation? I was aware that that album existed.

Oh, there you go. Isn't that nice? Well, too bad you didn't get that question then. Instead, you get, is Chris Rock nominated for a Grammy this year? Ooh, shit. I am going to say, I think he is. That is correct. He is nominated for Best Comedy Album for Tambourine, a Netflix special that I admittedly did not watch.

Didn't see it. Sean. I did. It was good. Sean, is Paul McCart? nominated for Grammy this year. Now, Paul McCartney used to be in the Beatles, who were in the

movie Hard Days Night. Okay, yeah, yeah. Is Paul McCartney still alive? Okay. You remember when you were in the Beatles? See, this is the kind of guy that, like, it just perpetually gets nominated

for Grammys, even I think if he doesn't put music out, they're just, he sneezed in the background of somebody else's album and so he's he's definitely nominated well i guess maybe this was the year the streak was broken because paul mccartney not nominated for a grammy award this year unfortunately is he alive he is definitely still alive though okay so you have one for two on paul mcgrine right ryan lambert going back to your lane hard rock yeah is alice cooper nominated for a grammy this year. Shock rock pioneer

Alice Cooper. The school's out himself. Be my Frankenstein, Alice Cooper. I'm going to say that he is not. Alice Cooper is actually

nominated for Best Musical Theater album. He was in the Jesus Christ Superstar. Yeah, on NBC. Yeah, he was in Jesus Christ Superstar. Lewis Cooper definitely nominated for a Grammy this year. If I'm remembering correctly. I don't know. Do your thoughts betray you?

Just, yeah. Sean, is Lil Wayne, the Froggy Little Rapper himself nominated for a Grammy this year? Okay. See, if I know anything about the Grammys, I don't, have they finally got around to nominating like actual rappers in the rap category? Or did they still? Amongst the nominees for Best Rappers. this year are Jeff Roetull.

Now that's a reference everybody gets. I'm going to say that is a contemporary artist I have heard of. I could not tell you if he had an album or, but I'm going to say

you know what, I'm going to go, I'm going to say no. I don't think you would have thrown his name out there if he was. I'm going to say that that's a trap question and that it's a no. Well, first of all, great trap reference.

Yeah, I was going to say. I didn't say, I didn't say Migos. Second of all, the quiz master does not, the quiz master does not appreciate you trying to just decipher and decode the quiz master's questions. But you're right.

He's not nominated. You are now two in five. So this is for the win. We either get a tie or a win out of this. This is very exciting. Ryan Lambert. Is Ryan Reynolds nominated for a Grammy this year? Who,

the spoken word Deadpool album that we all know and love. handsome actor Ryan Reynolds, soon to be the voice of Detective Pikachu in the titular Detective Pikachu movie. I'm going to say that he is not. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,

kiss your sister, because we have ourselves a tie. Ryan Reynolds nominated for Best Compilation Soundtrack for Visual Media, Deadpool 2. He helped put the Deadpool 2 soundtrack together and received a Grammy nomination for his efforts. So a tie. This couldn't have finished better.

I'm so happy that both of you are on an even keel, a plateau, if you will, with your Grammy knowledge. I had a whole elaborate celebration. celebration planned if I won. I guess I'm... All right. You guys in the media are always talking about... You guys in the media are always talking about

Sean's Grammy quiz celebrations. I'm tired of it. It's Bush League. It's a bunch of nonsense. It takes away from the game. It shouldn't be doing it. The Philadelphia Flyers are or are not going to make the playoffs, Ryan Lambert? Not.

What are we fucking talking about? Must I remind you of a little piece of heaven called Carter Hart, who is saving their season as we speak? Is he saving the season, or is, like, just the fact that they have vaguely pretty good goal tending for once, making them look like they're saving the season? I think they only need to win, like, four or five more games in a row, and they'll be right back within five points of the playoffs or whatever. I don't think they're going to, I don't think they're making the playoffs either,

but I do think they're going to get close, which means that my previous prediction will come true with is that Carter Hart gets them to close the playoff bubble. They decide they don't need Joel Quinville. They signed Scott Gordon to a four-year contract, and he's fired within the first two years. So this is my entire sort of vision is playing out before my eyes at the Flyers.

They're going to look back on this win streak as like the worst thing that ever happened to them. They'll love Carter Hart, but they're blowing their draft pick and they're blowing their chance at a big ticket coach. But yeah, thanks to Calder Trophy candidate Carter Hart. Damn right. Who should also, according to some of the takes I've seen, be getting some hard trophy consideration at this point. Because I name.

Is that one? I legitimately think he's going to be top three for the Calder by when it's all said and done. Oh, sure. Like, yeah. Yeah. But, like, I think I think Pedersen have to get hurt to not win it, personally. No, it's one of those things where we're all, like, anytime an award gets settled 20 games into the season, we're all so desperate for anyone else to emerge that we just, this is our guy. Yeah.

This is our hope. It's like when you watch the different foods racing at a game at the arena and the, you know, the soft pretzel gets you out to that big lead. But, uh-oh, here comes the arena's the Italian ice to come and win the race at the end. no one knows what the fuck I'm talking about. Yeah, I just looked it up. There are seven points out with an extra game played after winning eight in a row. And yet, they are one of the 11 teams in the Eastern Conference that would be holding down a Western Conference playoffs. Right.

Yeah, that's true. Which is confusing to me because I've spent the last year hearing that the only problem with the playoff format is that we don't just do one through eight for the two conferences and that would fix everything. and apparently not. I sincerely hope that like Philadelphia, Buffalo, Carolina all finish ahead of whoever slumps into that last wild card spot in the west

that we can hear about. On a tangent here, but are you a one through 16 guy? I actually, my proposal that I had on the athletic earlier in the year is I go one through eight. I don't give any consideration to divisions. I just take the best eight teams in each conference.

I play them down, recede. And when I get to the final four, I recede again. And if that means that we have two Eastern Conference teams in the final or two Western teams, then that's just fine. I would love to get a real legitimate rivalry matchup in the Stanley Cup final rather than this kind of weird east-west mishmash that we insist on having it. When I wrote the dynasty piece, I ranked the dynasties on ESPN this week, I went back and like, the Islanders beat the Flyers in one of those Cup final series in the early 80s. It's hard to brain around that. The NHL has actually had playoff format.

I mean, they changed playoff format every few years, but they've had the playoff format where any two teams could meet or teams from the same conference could meet more than they have the current one, where it's split. So if you're someone who likes to appeal to history and tradition, it's actually more traditional to have a playoff format where, for example, Pittsburgh and Washington could face each other for the Stanley Cup, and we would all go completely insane rather than having them have to knock each other out and play some team. They have no rivalry or history whatsoever.

Right. Interesting. Should we assume that the Dallas Stars have gotten their shit together, Ryan? Well, I mean, like, at this point, they're looking pretty comfortable, right? I don't know how I feel about them, though, because, like, it's so much to do with goaltending. Like, let's put it this way. They have a plus four goal difference right now. And both of their goalies are above 920.

Like, how bad must they be offensively to have two goalies who are 920 in a season where, like, that really means something? Because I don't know what the – I haven't looked at the average lately, but for a while there it was like 907, 908. So, like, for those two guys to be 920, like, I think if you figure Ben Bishop and Anton Hudobin can keep it going, then sure. but I you know if if that all goes away tomorrow I guess I wouldn't be surprised yeah it's it's a weird deal but again like you know it's I guess it's a mirror I guess it's it's Jim Lights is amazing manager style that it's gotten it worked yeah it's not it's not like you know luck or variance or anything like that where all of a sudden Puck stopped hitting you know posts it's obviously the Jim Lights effect right right and now every CEO in the league is going to be motherfucking his best players in the media The copycat league, Greg. I don't know if you heard about this. Hey, I'm all for it, man. I'm all for it.

And finally, in our little trip around the league, the ducks are who we thought they were. I am so feeling justified about all of this. And fuck anybody who actually thought that this team wasn't hot garbage being propped up by a good goalie. A good goalie who, by the way, Marty Buren, I don't know if you've seen this. Marty Biron taking blatant runs at John Gibson as being a mediocre goalie, which I thought was kind of an interesting flex. But the ducks suck, and I don't know how you get out of it. What possible, I hate talking about people getting fired because it sucks,

but what possible justification is there for not making a coaching change right now? I mean, I understand there are some teams that are maybe don't have a great coach, but they're doing okay and you don't want to upset the apple cart. I understand there are other teams that need new coaches, but why do it now? you're not going to make the playoffs anyways. What is the justification for being a terrible team in a way that can largely be attributed to the coaching and not be making a change even though you're still just three points out of a playoff run and could easily make it if you turn things around?

And Dallas Eakins sitting in the H.L. I mean, if you just want to make him the interim coach, whatever the fuck, like he's capable. Like he's done well down there. Yeah, it's not like you have to go out and worry about where your next coach is. I do not understand that. Um, I, I, I don't know. I, I, I can't figure out why you would not, uh, why Bob Murray would not play that card right now. Because he's his friend. Like, that's the only reason.

That's exactly. Yeah, that's it. He's his friend. Okay. Yeah. So there's that. All right. Fuck the ducks.

Uh, quick, some question of the week. Oh, we forgot Chicago. Oh, tell me about the, the, the resurgence of, uh, once and future,

uh, heart trophy winner Patrick Kane and the Chicago Blackhawks. Half the fucking local media there is like, these games matter now. They all matter. And it's, it's amazing. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

D.B. Mark Lazarus saying he has to, he has to can, he might have to can't, he might have to can't, cancel his vacation plans because the Blackhawks are now back in the playoff breaks. I've seen it from three or four people in the Chicago because, well, Laz's thing was, you know, if they had just fired Joel Quenville and it was, and it was Jeremy Colton all year, where would this team be? And it's like, I don't know, three games above 500? Like, who gives a shit? That's a rough one. I didn't see that one. That's crazy. They have 21 wins and granted,

20 of them were in regulation or overtime, but out of 54 games, they're very bad. Yeah. I mean, they're playing better, but they are not good. Well, right. And you don't have to be good in that conference. That's true. This is the most ridiculous playoff race that I think we've ever seen because every, every team, you know, I look at a team and they lose three games in a row. And I go, that's it for them.

And then they don't lose any ground. You look and you're like, oh, there's still. right in there. Like how right now, I'm looking at it, the only team in, in, the only teams in in, the only teams in that conference that have won more than five of their last 10 games is Winnipeg, Dallas, Calgary San Jose. Jesus. And then St. Louis is the only other team that is vaguely hot right now and is is is therefore climbing and and basically has one of the last playoff spots if you factor in points percentage. Everybody else in that entire conference is like four four and two in their last 10.

And it's disgusting. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it. Like everybody's talking about, oh, Chicago's on this incredible run. They've won five games in a row. You know what they did before? They won five games in a row. They lost five games in a row.

And it's the same thing with Dallas. Dallas has, I looked this up the other day, Dallas has two four-game winning streaks, two four-game losing streaks, a three-game winning streak, and a three-game losing streak. And that's it all year. Yeah. But again, every team in this, every team in this fucking conference is just going like one, one in every three games. It's amazing.

It's like they learned how to do the box step. One step forward, two steps back. Swing your partner. By the way, my favorite thing about the Blackhawks right now is they have Taves and Kane playing on the same line, which really makes that brand and sod trade look fan fucking tastic. Gotta get this guy to play with Taves. Need them. Right. They're only a Panera in a way, though.

Like, they'll be right back in the playoffs that they just go out and get Artemmy Panarin. Put me for a hometown discount. Put me down if he's available, and I still don't think that the blue jackets are going to trade him. But if he's available, if I'm Nashville, I do whatever it takes to get Panarin on my team. Like I really think that. You don't think the Cody McLeod deal covers them in that? Like I said, it's Infrastructure Week for Dave Poil, getting Brian Boyle and getting Coletian McLeod. But you throw, you need a second line worth of fucking.

and damn in that conference if you're in Nashville. And they don't have one. They didn't have one in the playoffs last year. They don't have one right now. You throw Panarin on a line. That becomes a dangerous line. That's my two cents. RFA's.

We asked you the listeners, which ones are totally getting offer sheeted, post-Austin Matthews, and by whom? Jose McMill writes in, Jesse Pull V.RV. is getting offer-sheeted by the Oilers. Heath Gretzky will claim not to know how any of this works.

Mitch on the web says Joel Edmondson gets offer sheeted by Edmonton. He's the perfect guy to build a team around, says Edmonton management. There you go. Mike Penner says Pierre McGuire by the NFL. They've got nowhere to go but up. Let's see here. Fabian writes in, Kyle Connor by the Canadiens. The offer would fall below the four-first threshold,

and the Jets couldn't really afford to match it, as they will direct their attention to line. I haven't probably talked enough about how Kyle Conner could be a potential offer sheet, potential guy. Phil Koker writes in Matthew Kachuk by Ottawa because brothers also because who needs first round picks with all this grit? And a lot of people saying that they've expected Buffalo Sabres to tender an offer sheet to somebody, potentially Mitch Marner, which would be maybe the second team that you'd want other than the Islanders as far as. pulling some shenanigans. Yeah, they would be the team. When I said that some team in the Atlantic should try to torpedo Toronto or 10, like that would maybe be the one. Yeah. Because they've got the money and they've got, you know, their, their window is opening around

the same time. So that would actually make a lot of sense. Finally, Mashitonei writes in, Edmonton will sign Ryan Murray so they can say they drafted Yakupov knowing that they would one day get Murray anyway. You'd probably get me. too. I think they probably could. That's a show for this week. Thanks to Austin Matthews for signing to give us something to talk about.

Thanks to Mitch Martner's agent for yapping to give us something to talk about. You can find my stuff on ESPN. This week, I did a dynasty ranking of the best dynasties of all time in the NHL as a reaction to the Patriots, unfortunately, we're doing another Super Bowl. And there was a bunch of other fun shit, too, that was there. What do you have going on, Lambert? You find me two-line pass on Twitter. sports.

Oh, yahoo.com. I was getting to it. I got it. Sports.com slash authors slash Ryan dash Lambert. And starting this weekend, you can get the official

Puck Soup newsletter, which I will write every week. And it's going to basically be like the Puck Daddy's power ranking slash countdown that everybody, well, not everybody, probably,

but several people express some dismay that that went away earlier this year. And you can get that by going to the Patreon page. And either it's $4 a month for just the newsletter, or it's $3 a month if you also subscribe to the podcast. So $8 total, but you get the six bonus episodes. You get the newsletter every single weekend. And that's that just finally you have more access to my thoughts on the sport.

That's awesome. That's a real good bargain. For the Puck Soup fan, I believe. One dollar bargain. Sean? What are you selling, Sean? I am selling a book by my book, The Down Goes Barron History of the NHL. And you can find me on The Athletic this week.

We are actually having a pretty interesting discussion. I wrote a piece about the most important trades in NHL history. We all know there's no debate to be had. It's Wayne Gretzky to the Kings. But what would be the second most important trade in NHL history? And I came up with 10 possibilities and I ended up making my pick and a lot of people are weighing in with their picks and candidates that I may have missed and that sort of thing. So we've actually got a pretty jumping comment section on that one. So go check that out and feel free to weigh in and let me know what your two cents on the matter would be.

There it is. Go to the athletic comment section, which by the way, it's getting increasingly toxic. It's making me very happy. A lot of the happy horseshit you guys are reading all the time, you know, for the first few months, it's gone. Now it's like a bunch of people yelling at Myrtle about his Austin Matthews takes, and it's, I'm starting to really, really enjoy it. Not to the point where, you know, it's the Yahoo comments where people are blaming Obama for the Barner negotiation, but it'll get there. Just give it, give it some time. We're working on it.

All right, cool. All right. Thanks, everybody for listening. We will catch you next week. Also, catch, you know, Sean in Toronto at the Puckstock thing. if you haven't gotten a chance to. Come on out Thursday night. We're downtown Toronto.

I'm not even sure where we're at, but on Queen Street there. Come watch us talk hockey. If you've got the book or you would like to buy the book and get it signed, I will be doing that as well. Just go to Queen Street and be like, hey, where are they talking about hockey tonight?

And I'm sure that they'll point you into the direction of puck talks there in Toronto. Just go there in the general direction and look for angry Islander fans with torches and pitchforks. And a handful. of Hurricanes fans probably joining in with them and then follow them. You'll find me.

Playing freeze tag or something because they just won a game. All right. Thanks everybody. We'll stop you next week. Bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hockey and Nonsense.

Bork Sue.