Puck Soup - Body of Work

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Sean and Ryan talk about the Avalanche, the Oilers, Olympic rosters, and more. Sponsored by Raycon (buyraycon.com/puck) and Mint Mobile (mintmobile.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I am Sean McIndew from The Athletic. And I'm going to open this show today by hitting you with some stats regarding the Colorado Avalanche. Okay. Across Corsi, Fenwick, shots on goal, scoring chances, high danger chances, expected goals and goals. four and against percentage, all of those stats. How many of those are they not top two in the league in? Oh, boy.

Are they, is it any of them? It's one, two, three, four, five of them. Oh, good. So there's hope. Yeah. There are three where they are fourth in the league. That's shots against. Fenwick against,

Corsi against, and high danger chances against. And one where they are a pathetic ninth in the league, which is scoring chances against. I think you got to consider a coaching change. Yeah, this is awful. A few weeks ago when we were talking about like how hot their start was

and they had gone to overtime a bunch of times, I made a joke about like, oh, these guys are OT merchants. And there have been some Colorado Avalanche fans. doing, remember you talk about the Columbus Blue Jacket's guy where every time they win, he's like, oh yeah, I guess they don't suck after all to you, you know that guy? I've been getting that from a couple avalanche, oh, we're OT merchants. It's like, yeah, that's, they go back and listen to that episode.

That was, the joke I made, I remember making this joke, I said, what, did they hire John Tortorella or something? That's how you know it's a joke. They didn't hire John Tortorella. I love the idea of being an avalanche fan right now and still needing to do the nobody believes in us. You have a fucking dog brain man. That's all there is to it. Like, look, I get it. You want to, believe me, they are first or second in almost every statistical category you can possibly come up with.

These guys are destroying the NHL. One regulation loss in 25 games. One. and still you're going to be like, this is bulletin board material. Get out of here. This guy does not. He doesn't think work good.

No, I don't think this is. I was thinking about this. I didn't have like, I didn't go through every season of the advanced stats era. There can't be more than, like, the only team I can think that it was this kind of dominant and had like the best record, because we've had plenty of like your Carolinas

or you're like early to mid-2010s Bruins where like every underlying number is like 55 plus percent, right? I don't know that there's ever been someone that was 55 to even like 60 plus percent and bar none the best team in the league, except maybe like the 07 to 09 Red Wings, because those were like super dominant teams. Yeah. What about the Chicago team in the lockout year, which we all understand is fake? Yeah. They went like 24 and 0.3 to start the year. Let me pull that up here. That team in expected goals percentage was eighth.

They were first in goals four, third in shots four. So like they were not, they weren't first in most categories except goals. let's put it that way. So, you know, they were obviously a very good team. They won the Stanley Cup part of, you know, three and five years, all that kind of stuff. But nothing like what we're seeing right now. The other team I was thinking about around, like I said, was the hurricanes would post monster numbers like this sometimes. Again, 55 plus percent of the expected goals.

But like, they weren't converting at the rate the avalanche are. The avalanche are also, I believe, I actually don't have the saved right now, but I'm pulling it up. And it says here, the avalanche are sixth in shooting percentage and first in save percentage, which. So I'm hearing you say regression city, baby. You're saying PDO merchants is. That's exactly right. Okay. And to be clear, I'm not joking about this.

Regression is coming. These guys might lose two or three more games in regulation this year. Anyway, I got two more stats for you on the ads. Their goal difference per 60 is plus 2.05. A team in their division, the Dallas Stars, you ever hear of these guys? Yeah. They're second in the league.

Their goal difference per 60 is plus 0.85. Double that, give me an extra like 50% on top of that you get to the Colorado Avalanche. No problem. It's got to be frustrating to be the stars and like... Yeah, you're fucking unbelievable. And they're just like, unfortunately, I am like end of the Cavs era LeBron against you. What did I see like some stat on the Wild who recently went in like 9-0-1? and it was like, yeah, they gained two points.

Yeah, it's insane. They had the congratulations. Well worth it. The gap in goal difference between the Colorado Avalanche, who are the number one team in the league by goal difference, at plus 51 in 25 games, and the Dallas Stars, who are plus 22, is the same as the gap between the Dallas Stars who are plus 22

and the San Jose Sharks who are minus seven. And 23rd in the league by goal difference. I love this. It's so sick, man. 31 teams are exactly the same. And then one team is just... One team is the Harlem Globetrotters. Beautiful thing.

I can't wait for them to lose. What's that song? Sweet Georgia Brown. Nathan McKinnon out there whistling that as he just fucking racks up another three points. No problem for him. Cannot wait for them to lose in the first round. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

series in which they out shoot the other team 50 to 20. Like Joey Decord stands on his head and that's just... Good happen. Well, yeah. If you really want to impress me, though, I'm sorry. It says here Nathan McKinn has the same number of goals as Morgan Geeky. Grow up. Yeah.

That's not even a real guy. Sad, man. Good news, though. Everybody in the East is at least 500 right now. So we got that going for us. Wow. All those teams must be so good. Their GMs must be doing such great jobs. Every team in the East. I should say NHL 500, not like real 500. Fake 500. Yeah. Super.

So we're saying Gary's League about that, but that's all I really wanted to say about any of that stuff. I think the Oilers are going to do anything in the next week or two? It's getting to be about that time. it is what are they going to do though right i saw a thing where they like they don't want to necessarily just make like a lateral move they want to make a clear upgrade okay and i i don't know if that was like an insider reported that that was maybe speculation on i mean i don't i don't know i just saw it on

twitter i think that's the way to go um you know but well sure yeah trade for a guy who's better than the guy who sucks sure sure I agree. Well, I mean, because it's just so easy to make the, you know, especially in net, right? Trade Calvin Picard for some other team's Calvin Picard equivalent and then go, well, I mean, now we got to, everyone's got to wait two months to see if this works. Get off my back. So I think they should swing bigger, but that tends not to be what teams do in this situation.

but we'll see. Yeah, for me, and again, like, this was always the problem. We've talked about this. This was always going to be the issue. And then, damn, it's the issue. That's crazy. Like, my thing is, and I think I said this a week or two ago, how do you not, like, have the plan ready, like the breaking case of emergency,

let's pull out the envelope with a secret plan to upgrade our goaltending that we knew was a problem a year and a half ago, right? Like, that's the thing to me where they're like, you know what, I'm looking around, I'm starting to realize I don't think Stuart Skinner has it. And everybody in fucking 2023 is going, no shit, you know? Mm-hmm. That's the frustrating thing. Like, if you're the oilers, because they're just going like, yeah, I mean, who could have seen this coming? And everybody is going, me, except Stan Bowman. Yeah.

and look, I get like, what, you know, what are you supposed to do? Every goal is just kind of either really good or it's like fake. Like, you know, you're looking at like, whatever, Devin Coolly is one of the best goalies in the league. And you're like, that's obviously bullshit. And it's like, yeah, that's true. And obviously you're not going to trade for Devin Coley either, you know, whatever.

But I don't know, like there's just no plan here. Feels like the plan was to hope that it was. would go okay. Okay, great. And then hope that if it didn't go okay, someone else would shake free. Like, I don't know. Maybe the plan was Ilya Sorokin. Yeah.

And they talked to the islanders all summer, and Matthew Darsh said, yeah, you know, assuming we get off to the sort of start that we're expecting, we might be open to that. And now the islanders are better than the oilers. So, right. But yeah, no, my answer to are they about to do something is probably not, because that tends to be the safe answer for pretty much every team. Any team that isn't run by Jim Rutherford takes two months to realize they need to do something and then another three months to actually do it.

Yep. But I don't know. Like, I guess my thing is you can't write any of these years. years off as a loss or a loss or whatever you want to say. You can't, if you're the Oilers, you're like, we have three years left of Connor McDavid putting up with our bullshit. Max, that's exactly right. Maximum.

And yet, you know, like, they are not in the playoff spot right now. They're not in a playoff spot by points percentage right now. And sure, they're close. And any Oilers team, we've seen it a million. in times around January, they go, yeah, I guess we got to win like 13 of the next 15. And they do it. Yep. But I guess the thing is, just making the playoffs, what are you, the fucking Vancouver Canucks?

This is your goal? You know? Yeah, especially in that. You can't just make the playoffs. I mean, that's, I mean, you, you, you can't just make the playoffs. I do see the argument that would say. Once you get it. Yeah, sure.

Yeah. I mean, they've won six rounds in the last two years. I could see them saying, like, we're not going to go, we don't really care if we're eight or second in the conference. Sure, of course. Home ice, yeah, it matters. We'd like to have our game sevens on home ice and that sort of thing. But we've seen, you know, you look across at the team that keeps beating them.

The Panthers, the Panthers never finish high in the standings. They did once and then lost in the first round. And then ever since they were like, we don't care. We'll just get in. Sure. So, you know, the goal isn't to, like, unlike the Canucks where the goal of make the playoffs and then get three home dates and then that's a successful season and cross your fingers maybe every once in a while you do more. That can't be the plan because you're right. Three years max to convince Connor McDavid to stick around for another decade.

I wouldn't be, I certainly wouldn't want to be the GM who kissed one of those seasons away through inactivity. Right. And arguably too, quite frankly. Well, yeah. It's kind of last year. The other thing, though, is, you know, they're looking up in the standings at San Jose, Seattle, and Chicago, right? And obviously a lot of smoke and mirrors with, I would say probably all three of those teams, quite frankly. None of them are like particularly good Chicago, obviously kind of crashing and burning a little bit lately.

But I don't know. If you had told me on December 2nd, you know, you tell me this in September. On December 2nd, the Edmonton Oilers will be behind San Jose, Seattle, and Chicago. like, I don't even know what to make of that. Like, did Connor McDavid, like, get hurt in training camp and hasn't played a single game? Oh, no, he's played all the games, basically. Okay, well, you know, Leon Drysitle, did he demand a trade? I don't know, he's still there.

Plugging away, you know? Like, it's not just that they're losing to, or they're behind these teams. that are, you know, on paper, notably worse than them, let's say. It's that, like, they don't really have, because, what, what was it? Vancouver, they were like, oh, it's the injuries. They're crazy. And it's like, yeah, you have a bunch of players who suck who are injured, you know? Yeah.

They don't really have that so much. Like, they've, they've had a couple of guys miss a handful of games here, but for the most, like, it's kind of the thing of, like, it's kind of the thing of, like, it's kind of the thing of, like, oh, yeah, I guess Ryan Nugent Hopkins was like eight or nine games. Yeah. Zach Hyman, they were missing for a while. That's, you know what? That's true.

Yeah. He's up to seven, he's up to seven games played. You're right about that. But even still, it's the, it's kind of the same thing where it's like, are you a Zach Hyman away from being ahead of Chicago? Congratulations. You know, you did it. Right.

Yeah. It can't, it can't be, uh, again, there are bigger problems. in Edmonton, then like, their backup sucks, obviously. And their backup is horrible, to be clear, right? Eight, oh my God, Sean, eight 47, the save percentage on Calvin Pickard. You need that up over eight. Forty-seven. You're going to win.

You got to get. Well, four, and then a seven. Yeah. If it's too hard to make a trade. Yep. And it is. How long can this go before we have to look at Chris Knoblock and wonder if he could be? So that's the other thing that is crazy about the Oilers.

They have built their organization around Connor McDavid. We'll bring in all the guys you want. Your old agent, he's Stan Bowman's boss. your old coach, he's the coach of the team. Like, if you fire Chris Knoblock, that maybe makes Connor McDavid mad. Mm-hmm. And then what happens? You almost have to pull McDavid aside and be like, hey, man.

Blink twice if a different coach would be, would make you happy. I don't even know that you can broach it that way. Like, you got to, yeah. I, point being, I don't know what the answer is. Like, Jack Rosamick is one of the best players. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, they were like, okay, whatever makes con, and to be clear, I think whatever you can do to make Haram McDavid happy if you're an organization and not want to leave,

you should do that thing. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. With that having been said, how happy do you think Stuart Skinner is really making him? You know what I mean? Like, he can't like Stuart Skinner that much. So, yeah, I don't know.

I, again, I say this every year. The Oilers are cooked. They're relying too much on McDavid and Drysidal. And they go, we're actually relying on them the exact appropriate amount, which is as much as you possibly can. These are two of the three best players in the world. And I have to say, you're right? Mm-hmm.

You know? We're talking about Leon Drysidal. Oh, you know, he's having a bit of a down year. He's only got 15 goals and 31 points in 26 games. This guy sucks. He's playing 22 minutes a night. Ah, bum. But that is a concern, right?

Because you're down the road, could fatigue be an issue? I mean, you would think. Yeah. And again, I brought that up before. And usually as the season goes on, they kind of throttle it back a little bit, you know? Mm-hmm. But what's... Usually after they've had that 13-game win streak.

That's right. But what's interesting is because of the compressed schedule this year, like once the oilers come back for, I was looking at this too, once the oilers come back from the Olympics, they play 24 games from February 25th to April 16th. That's a lot of hockey in a very small window. I don't know. Like, I don't, you don't want to be in a position where you're like, our choice has been. between resting Connor McDavid for the playoffs because we need, like, we need him to be healthy or we need the points this badly, you know? And maybe resting him doesn't mean hold him out of the lineup, but maybe resting him

means let's only play him like 18, 19 minutes to me. Well, it's not like he's getting much of a break over the Olympics. Well, that's what I mean. He's going to be, yeah, so, I mean, Drysaddle will at least. get a few days, you know, during metal rounds and stuff like that. Right. But, yeah, boy, there are... But, I mean, what, yeah, what can you do, right?

Do you say we're going to throttle down now? You'd like the cushion, I guess. The point. Yeah. You know, we're going to drop his ice time down now so that he's rested for the playoffs. Well, got to get the playoff spot before you can think that way. I still think it works out. I still think the wind streak is coming, but we're into December now.

Like this is... That's right, man. Yeah. I'm trying to find the, the classic on-off splits for McDavid and Drysidal, you know. And, you know, they're not looking to do. Can only imagine. Probably not as... They're not...

They're not... No, no, no. In part, though, it's because to... Like when they're not on the ice together at 5-0? Okay. When they're on the ice together, 58% of the expected goals, 61% of the, I'm sorry, 53% of the regular goals. So, they're underperforming, right? 58% expected, 53 regular.

McDavid, no dry-sidal. 47% of the expected goals, 43% goals. Dricidal, no McDavid? Yeah. Dry-sidal, no McDavid, 4. 49% of the expected goals, 64% of the goals. He's overperforming.

And then this is the stat. You can do it every fucking year pretty much. That's actually not true. Last year they were pretty good one. But 45% of the expected goals, 28% of the actual goals. When those two guys are off the ice at five on, this is all at five on five.

When those two guys are off the ice at five on five, the oilers are minus 20. Is that good? I don't think so. Oh, all right. I'll have to check, but I don't, I feel like it's... There you have it, folks. But yeah, anyway,

speaking of the Olympics, we were starting to get a little bit of news and notes on that that I wanted to discuss on the show today. First of all, I don't know if people have seen this. You might have heard, oh, they're going to have an NHL-sized rink over there in Italy. They're not going to the international size. Correct. They are not going the international size.

But apparently in some way, the rink got screwed up and it's going to be like four or six feet shorter than it's supposed to be. So it's 196 by 85 or something like that. I would just like to say for the record that if Canada loses, this is why. That's right. This is enough that between this and all this stuff about the stuff about, there's no plan B. If the rink's not ready, I don't know what we're going to do. We can't play in like Switzerland or whatever. It would be really funny if they didn't go to the fucking Olympics. Yeah, don't. No, it would not. It would be so funny. No, not laughing. It would

be a little funny. Gary's slipping the architect of Fiverer. I'm going to shave a couple of feet off in the middle there. Who's going to notice? Yeah, did we ever find out what happened on that, like, they sent a bunch of people over. I think that's probably where this info came. If I had to guess, I don't know for sure. But if I had to guess, they broke out a tape measure and they were like, wait a second. Like on that little fact-finding. Put a player on the ice and they're like, just do a lap.

And the guy got to one end and just smashed into the boards. Uh-oh. Yeah, do it with your eyes closed and see what happens. This is going to be something else, man. I don't know. Like, is the stadium going to be ready? Isn't a question I should be asking like, whatever, two months out from. It doesn't feel ideal.

No, no. But even if it is ready, well, let me ask you this. Where do they find these extra four feet? Is the neutral zone small? is... Yeah, they'll move the blue lines in, like towards each other. Interesting.

To keep the attacking zones the same size, that makes sense. It would have to be, yeah. Yeah. Well, what I was thinking was you shave like, whatever, you're looking for four feet,

that's 48 inches. So you shave eight inches off like red line to the end boards. You shave eight inches off the attacking zone. and you shave eight it. You know what I mean? Like you can kind of just do it for the whole,

the whole ice surface and then all of a sudden it's all just a little bit smaller everywhere. But I think you, I think you'll find folks that a little bit smaller actually completely fucks up the dimensions of the game and like how it's the geometry of it. I wonder. I wonder how noticeable it'll be. It will be noticeable just enough to the players where they're like, I have no time and space out there.

Yeah. You thought the damn. Four Nations was low scoring. Every game in this tournament is going to be one-nothing. You're describing Gary Bettman's dream. Well, one-nothing with three other goals wiped off by off-side review because the players keep getting surprised by the blue line. It sounds like, though, I'm describing Bill Guerrins' dream.

Well, yeah, that too. You're right. He did an interview with Pierre LeBron over there at the Athletic this week. And I'm reading this thing going, I'm getting really mad. I'm getting pissed off. So the first thing to say about USA hockey about all this, this is the current list of injured players who are probably going to be on Team USA. Hellebuck, Matthews, Hughes, McAvoy, Slavin, both could show.

Well, didn't Brady just come back? Brady's back and Austin Matthews is just back as well. That's right. Yep. And so still Matthew Kachuk, J.T. Miller, and now Adam Fox. That's not good. But he, you know, he said to Pierre. Speak for yourself.

Sounds fine to me. Yeah. He said to Pierre, I'm reasonably confident all those guys will be back and ready to go. Okay, great. That's awesome. You know, are they going to be like physically at the top of their game? Well, you know, who knows? but they're all going to

So this is psychotic quote number one From Bill Garen Regarding Jason Robertson specifically But speaking it seemed like About a lot of the fringe guys He's doing all he can And again, these are situations where I know guys want to make this team

And guys want to be in this situation There's a number of players that we could take That won't end up taking Because we won't have the room And when you look at it, there's so many guys that are close in the way that they're performing in their statistics and their body of work, it could come down to fit. What do we need? We love it. We love it when it comes down to fit.

It comes down to fit. What do we need? I looked into it and you know what? What we need is not necessarily guys who score goals. No. No, no, no. That's not. Defense, defense, defense, and identity.

Well, for that point. defense. He also said to Pierre, honestly, I just don't think you can put into words how tight those games were, and he's talking about four nations, obviously, how little room there was to operate and how well these elite players can check. In NHL games, they're not always counted on to do that, but when they are, they can. And not everybody can play in those situations. No matter what their offensive gifts are, if you can't check, it's probably not the

tournament for you. There's just no room out there. and especially if there's fewer feet. And then this is the final quote. I'm a big believer in body of work. I appreciate the first two months of the season, but I've said this before. This is not pee-wee tryouts.

This is not, oh, just take who's playing well. If you did that, you wouldn't need general managers or coaches. We're actually trying to build a team. And what that says to me is, J.T. Miller, I know you've sucked this year. Come on over to Italy, brother. Here we go. We're making it happen.

Brock Nelson, what were you planning to do in February? I hope you didn't book a vacation because you're going to beautiful Milano Cortina and Jason Robertson that says here you can go fuck yourself Yeah, okay, interesting.

It's the quote about like, well, I mean, if you just took the best players, you wouldn't need a GM. Me and my six assistants and my coach and his aid assistants, like, clearly we're not just all here for no reason because it's a big ego fest. Because only we can crack the code on how to build a team.

All right. And it turns out... See how it goes. So the thing is, they did this against Canada, right? They bought, this is what he's talking about, oh, it matters to have experience. Experience losing to Canada, not beating them pointedly. Yes. and

Ben brought up a million times what was the final in that game two to one I think it was 3-2 but 3-2 I was there I don't fucking remember overtime

one goal away one goal and it's not like it was a 5-4 game one goal on Jordan Bennington to yeah yep and you're sitting there going

if it was 3-2 we need to get that game down to 2-1 Yeah, maybe one nothing. We win zero to minus one. Is that something? That's what every hockey man thinks. And again, if you're dead convinced that J.T. Miller is better than Jason Robertson, who last I looked, had more points than any other American in the leagues so far this year.

Like, let's put it this way. Why are we even fucking pretending that we're really thinking, oh, we're really, thinking about it. I think what they're going to do is they're going to bring Tage Thompson instead of Brock Nelson, it would be my guess. But otherwise, 100% the same team from the Four Nations. And even then, that was like, at the time, people going, you know, they probably should have brought Page Thompson, like on day one of the Four Nations tournament instead of Brock

Nelson. The one that kills me is still Kyle Conner. benched in the championship game. Yeah. Galaxy brain. Again, the thing about body of work, does the body of work not include the first two months of the season? Hey, this guy's been awful lately.

I understand about recency bias or whatever. It feels like it doesn't for both countries. That's what I mean. Yeah. It really doesn't sound like a lot of these guys did have a chance to play their way on or off the team. Right. in the first two, three months.

Like, it just feels like it didn't matter. Whatever, like a month ago, I think on 32 thoughts, Elliot, like, rattled off the list of defensemen who he thinks were locks to make the Olympic roster. And he named, like, all but one of the guys who was on the team. I don't remember who it was now, but he's just like, I think the following guys are locks. And he says, like, seven names. And it's like, well, that's all of them, isn't it? And if all those guys are locks,

why even have the fucking pretense of we're really, we're really thinking about this one, you know? I don't, I don't, that's what I don't understand. But as a, as an American, I'm sitting here going, well, at least they're not saying anything about dreams, I guess. So far. That's the only solace you can take.

Or not with a reporter in the room this time. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I, they're going to screw it up. And then when it doesn't work, they're going to go, damn, that's crazy. Anyway, nobody could have done anything about that. Look, that other team has McKinnon and and McDavid on it. Yeah.

And everybody just kind of has to go, you're right. And probably also Sam Bennett and Colton Perez. Well, those guys are winners. You don't understand. Yeah, you're right. So, all right, after all that, when we take a break and we'll come back, I have some stuff about Canada's Olympic team as well. Fun.

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Marty Brodor gave a kind of lengthy interview to NHL.com about how they're going to put the team together. He's some sort of a goaltending consultant or something for the team. Yeah, consultant. So what, I don't know. Get in there, Marty. You're our guy. Yeah, why not? Look, honestly, this is one of those things where you're right.

Like, it's all about ego. It's all about, you know, just, we're going to pick as many big names as possible and put them on the team. I think you can make a pretty good case that if you need to talk to somebody about goaltending, Marty Rodor is kind of the guy that you would want to call up. He might be. Well, if you're Canada anyway. I mean, like, if you're, if you're the Czech Republic Dominic Cash, would be the guy.

I'm sorry, Czechia. Not the Czech Republic anymore. But so this is a quote that he gives as part of it. And I want you to see what jumps out to you in this quote. Okay.

People have to understand that what did we go? Nine consecutive years without best on best international competition between the 2016 World Cup of hockey and the Four Nations face off. This is a new generation of player, a new generation of goalie. It's Jordan, it's Scott, it's Logan Thompson of the Capitals, guys like that. There was a tradition made there.

It's tough to be a goaltender for Canada. And then there's another question, and he continues kind of with the same thought. Like he stayed on this track. Like I said, it's tough to be a goaltender for Canada. I had a conversation with Binner this summer. I told him you can't always worry about stats. Sometimes numbers don't show how you yourself are playing, especially when the team around you is struggling.

If you have a record of, say, 6 and 10, you can't fret about that when it comes to being picked. Sometimes you are at the mercy of your environment. It is what it is when you're a goalie, especially these days with stuff being wide open. The people doing the selecting know their stuff. They are looking at a larger body of work. There's that word again.

They are looking at how you are playing, how you are seeing the puck and following the play, aspects of the games like that. How are your instincts? It's the body of work and not the body of your team's work that should be of interest to hockey Canada. What stands out to you from that? I think it's an interesting...

Yeah. I think it's an interesting quote. I agree. It sounds like he's saying the blue stink, which is... That's... Undeniable, in my opinion. I can't believe he would trash his old team like that. What stood out to you?

What am I? Two things. One, he said the names of exactly three Canadian goalies. Yes. Uh-huh. It sounds like they're taking Bennington, Wedgwood, Thompson, which, frankly, that's as good as they're going to do. If we're accepting that you can't swap out Jordan Bennington,

the golden child himself. Can I be honest? glad you said that because I did catch that, but I was sitting here trying to figure out who Scott was. Scott, like Scott? He's having a great season. Yeah, he's fine. Good for him. Yay.

He's on it. You want to talk about an environment, though, you know? Well, yeah, that's it. Like, are we? But here's the thing. If you're talking about, you know who's going to make it really easy on a goalie? Is the team that Canada sends to the Olympics? It's probably they're not going to have to sweat it out.

too many nights. You know what I'm saying? But the other thing is that they're also talking about body of work, but they're including this year because body of work, you wouldn't say Scott Wedgwood. This is one of the three best goals we got.

But if there's any position you're going to do that for. It's got to be the goalie. Yeah. But, yes. Which is where the U.S. is the most locked in, right? Like, with the exception of Jake Ottinger, who a little better recently, but started out struggling.

But like, hellabuck, good before he got hurt, Swain and one of the best goalies in the league this here, weirdly. So you just bring the same three guys, you're feeling great about that. But, yeah, I thought that was a very interesting quote. Poor Darcy Kemper. What does he got to do to get into the conversation? Be better than this. Okay. I mean, you want to talk about body of work.

And like, he's been good. He just hasn't been as good as Thompson or Wedgwood. And also, like, last year was the year to bring him, and they didn't do it. So this year that, you know, he. I would say he hasn't made the case for himself, unfortunately. It's just how it goes. So, yeah, I thought that was interesting. And then there was an article on Sportsnet that I also thought was interesting about, like, the fringe guys for hockey Canada.

And I'll just read a few to you. And, you know, we did this a little bit before. But now we have an extra, whatever, three weeks or whatever it's been of time. how many of these guys do you think have worked their way onto the team? We'll start with that. Like that is the criteria here. Because obviously they can't take all of the guys I'm about to mention

as well as all the guys who were on the Four Nations team, blah, blah, blah. So how, like, just yes or no on all these guys for me, all right? Nick Suzuki. Is this onto the team or just? Yeah. Yeah. Well, so the way they phrased it is 11 Canadians who missed out on four nations but could crack Olympic roster. Okay.

I'm going to say it. I wouldn't hate having Suzuki on the team, but I'm going to say no until I kind of hear some of the other guys. Okay. Tom Wilson. He's playing great. He's playing really well. A no on him, but he's, I would say I'm now a no, but. I'm a no without like scoffing like I would have.

I believe. So the thing that is of note to me for this, I believe they're using NHL refs, but international rules. Right. Okay. And, um, you know,

like are they going to call him for trying to kill somebody? Like if he throws one big hitter, are they going to throw him out of the game? and he's suspended for the next game. Yeah. I don't know if NHL refs would be inclined to do that, but like the rulebook says that if you, you know, do the kind of thing that we think of Tom Wilson is doing,

that would be a problem for, for him and the, you know, the Canadian team in January. Yeah, it just, it feels like he's, the season he's having, he would be on a four nations team at this point, but. Yep. Olympics, I don't know. I'm with you.

Yeah, totally. Mark Shifley. I have, I know that the two-way game is an issue. I still have him a little bit ahead of Tavares, who I'm assuming is also on the list. Yes, that's right. I think they're like very similar cases to be made.

Yeah, and with Shifley like he's. And room for only one, I would imagine. Right. He's 11th in the league in scoring right now in total points. But a lot of the guys ahead of him are not Canadian. So I think for me, I would bring Shifley just because he's scoring a lot. But then you get into two other ones where I think this is a situation where you can only bring one of these two guys. Macklin Celebrini and Connor Bedard. See, I was, even a week or two ago, I was moving into the, you know what, bring both of them. They're second and third in the league and scoring behind Nathan McKinnon. Slown down a bit, but I mean, I find a way, especially when you remember that, like, there's extra spots. Yep. Right?

Like, the Four Nations was very tight rosters. There was only one extra guy at each position. Yeah. And there's an extra, extra defenseman, extra forward. I still want to take both of those guys. I would do. I wouldn't want to, but would they do it? I don't, yeah, I mean, this is, this is the galaxy brain, right?

Yep. But I'd take both. Yeah, I'm with you. Again, I think, I think they will only take one. And honestly, I don't know if you saw this the other night where Baderd was, was yapping at the ducts after he scored an empty neck goal, go fuck yourselves or whatever. He was saying shut the fuck up to them.

Yep. He's getting a little bit of that damn swagger. There it is. Yep. And I can see that specifically being like, I guess we got fucking rigged this guy. You know what I mean? Yep.

I'm all for it. I would bring both like we've said a few times on the show now, but like I think if you have to choose one and I think they will only choose one. It will be Baderd. He's also a year old. That will be fun for the, like, we're all trying to, like, force this Celebrini versus Badaard rivalry into existence.

And picking only one of them would certainly nudge that along, let's just say. Yeah. It'll be fun when they're both on the Vancouver Canucks in, like, six or seven years, though. It will be, yeah. And then the last two, Tavares. and Horvette. Yeah, I don't... Tavares, I think, is sort of...

He and Shifley are the old version of Bedard and Celebrini, where there just isn't room for two guys who are... Yep. Pretty good offensive players, not necessarily dynamic game breakers, not necessarily too weak.

I mean, you're not putting them on the penalty kill in this sort of tournament. I wouldn't think so. Old Horvett is an interesting one. That one, if there was somebody who was going to be a surprise that actually did get picked, I could see it be in him because he fits the mold a little bit more of what I could see them being comfortable with. Yeah, I'll put it to you this way. If it's a choice between him and Tom Wilson as like kind of a lower in the lineup guy, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'd rather have Horvatt than Wilson just in part because of the potential. liability of they call the game different, which they do obviously you know, but also because like Horvatt A is a center and you'd rather I think have a guy who's a center than a winger

even if you're playing him on the wing you know. But also and I do think this is kind of important like he just plays more hockey like I think even if you're only playing

12 minutes for the Olympic team, you'd rather have a guy who plays 21 than 20 or whatever it is. You know what I mean? So I think that all kind of, I would say, I think Bo Horvett has probably played his way onto this team. With that having been said, we're, you know, about a month away. Rosters have to be in on the 31st, I think, of December. So, I think, obviously there's four weeks of NHL hockey remaining before they make a decision. But if I'm making the decision right now, I wouldn't have Horvett on this team. On defense, this is an interesting list.

There's only two names. Matthew Schaefer and Noah Dobson. I don't know that you can bring an 18-year-old, man. on defense. I do know that you can, and you should. Brigham as the eighth guy, like, maybe, yeah. I'd love it. I'd love to see him go.

He's, again, like I said this last week. He's legitimately, for me, been one of the, like, five best defensemen in the league this year. I'll put it to you this way. XGF percentage, Matthew Schaefer, 55%, Noah Dobson, 40. percent. That's not everything, obviously. And that's at five on five. That's not everything, obviously.

But Schaefer above water in every single statistical category you would want him to be. He's playing roughly the same amount of minutes it looks like. Maybe a little less per game than Dobson is. But, like, they're not hiding this kid. you know what I mean like they're not putting him in a position to oh you know they're not giving them the darnel nurse treatment where it's like we can really only use you in certain ways you know they're like get out there kid and he's like no problem for me how to 62 percent of the goals when I'm on the ice sound and they said that sounds great and he said okay then I'll do it he's he's just

been fucking awesome I when he's on the ice every 60 minutes he's on the ice the the islanders score 1.2 goals more than their opponents. I don't know what else this kid can do to say he's played his way on the team. He's been fucking unbelievable. There's, if there is anything a defenseman his age can do to play his way on the team, he's done it. Yes, absolutely. So this is just a question of was there ever an opportunity? Let me ask you this.

Do you think, if you're the islanders, do you want him to get picked? Hell no. See, I'm like, I mean, clearly, on some level you don't want any players to get picked because you don't... Right. Injury risk and all that.

But like, do you want him to go and potentially face some adversity, potentially, you know, not... Certainly face the toughest competition he will ever face in his career. and potentially fail or at least potentially, you know, get, you know, get knocked down a step. Is that a good thing?

Or do you want him to go and have that experience and come back being even more of a superstar? Well, okay. So my thing is with him, it's not like they've thrown him into the, you know, waded him into the shallow end of the pool. He's got the little floaties on. Like, they just put him in the pool and they say, you do your thing. And he's gone up and down, swim and laps, right? So it's not like the analogy is necessarily throwing him into the deep end because they've just let him play and he's done it. Right.

But what would be interesting is, I don't think they're good. Look, I just pulled it up. among defensemen evolving hockey has him fifth in war for the entire league. Right? So, like, this is the fifth best defenseman by a single, by one metric. This is the fifth best defenseman in the league. Okay? Great.

They're not going to use him that way. Like, even if you say this is one of the five best defense, 10 best defensemen in the world, pick your number. He's 18. They're just flat out not going to use him that way. So if he's playing eight minutes a night against Latvia or whoever, and that's really all they use him for, I think, and this is such a not me thing to say, I think the experience of going there and sitting next to, you put him next to Sidney Crosby or Cale McCar or whoever in the dressing room, and just like, you put him under the learning tree, so to speak, you know? I think that's awesome for him. I think

because my thing is the difference is if he doesn't go, what do you do with him? Do you send him to the AHL? Well, you can't because of the CHL transfer rule. So he's just going to sit around for a month. I don't,

you know what I mean? Like, I don't know how you handle that. I wouldn't, like you said, I wouldn't want him to go if I'm on the islanders just because of the injury risk, you know? but I don't know like for me I think this kid probably could play against like

middle six competition from the United States or whatever you know what I mean I think this kid can absolutely hoop on Slovakia you know whether he's allowed to do that is a different question I would I guess want to know what the plan is

with him before I was like really excited or not excited You know, if they're like, we're bringing them to be like the guy that is really only practicing with these guys. Maybe I'm not super enthused, but yeah. That's fair. Yeah, I think that's about right. He's so sick, though. He should be on the team.

Sorry, Noah Dobbs said, get out of here, you know. And then the end of this article, it says the two goleys that are maybe being considered are Logan Thompson and Darcy Keper. Sorry, Darce. Uh-oh. It's not going to happen for you, big dog. It might be an extra guy on that list. Darcy, change your name to Scott. Make that year.

That's right. All right. Some other news and notes from around the league here. Mike Matheson, big extension in Montreal, five years, six million bucks of pop. It's kind of weird that we're getting to the point where like six million bucks for a defenseman doesn't actually seem like that much. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of years.

for a guy that, yeah. That's the, that's the issue is the five years. Um, but, you know, he's, he's, he's been pretty good for them. Not unbelievable or anything, but like, again, this is what a $6 million dollar, uh, defenseman is now. Okay. I'll take your word for it, you know? Yep.

Um, how about this though? I wanted to say this. This is a guy who, when he was in Florida, And then in Pittsburgh, briefly, this guy is unplayable. This is what a lot of people were saying. This guy stinks. We cannot let him be in the National Hockey League anymore. And he goes to Montreal, and he's, like, fine for a little while.

And then the last, like, year or so, it's just like, yeah, this guy's really good. I don't know. Now, granted, it says here when he's on the guy, 62.2% of the goal, 48% of the expected goals. So there's a little smoke and mirrors at play here. But he's one of their top PK guys. He doesn't play on the power play at all this year, really, which is a thing, you know, when you have Dobson and Hudson,

you kind of don't have any room for another puck-moving style guy, you know. But good for him getting the bag here. You know, this is, again, three, four years of, ago, I told you Mike Madison is going to get $30 million from a team until he's like 36 or whatever. You'd go,

how is that humanly possible? Yep. And yet, I don't think anybody's mad about this contract. Yeah, again, like the it's probably two years longer than you would want it to be. But that's

negotiating a contract, right? You're going to have to move some things around and you won't love every piece of it. So, I mean, it's a good, you're right. Like, he wasn't fitting in his previous teams, and sometimes you find the fit later in the career. Credit to Montreal for turning it into something. Yeah, absolutely. There wasn't any other big contract, right? I'm not forgetting anything.

I don't think there was. It says here no. No, there wasn't. So we did it. The spate of bizarre injuries around the league continued this week. Alexei Torpchenko is now week to week with a scalding burns on his leg and some sort of an accident at home. Yeah. Yikes.

Yeah, that doesn't sound good. Spilled some oil or boiling water or something on your leg. So you would assume something like that, you know, cooking your eye, I burn my hand in oil once. It's not fun. I don't recommend it. No, I still have a little scar on my thumb from where that happened to me, however many years ago, that was. And, you know, I cook often enough that, like, yeah, I get a little bit of boiling water on my hand every once in a while. It sucks.

And as was pointed out on the Puck Soup Discord, you know, last night when people were discussing this, he's going to be week to week with this, even if the burns aren't that bad, because you don't want a guy with like burns on his legs putting on hockey gear. No. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Absolutely. Disgusting.

So, you know, come on down to join the. Jack Hughes falls on a glass or something, and Atulisturin's quote-unquote barbecuing mishap. Yeah. You think that was. You think he just got a little crazy with the tongs. He was going around, giving everybody the clink-clink to get the orders. I assume he also got burned in some way.

You know, did the classic thing of putting a gallon of lighter fluid in there and being like, uh-oh. That's why you've got to use clean burning propane, propane, propane accessories. You should make a TV show about that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that wasn't even the only blues news here where they lost Jimmy Snuggaroo with the... Before we, on the injury, what did you think of the knee-on-knee hit from the night before?

It's not good. Yeah. I was a little bit surprised there was no suspension there because that felt... You can't suspend anybody in this league anymore, man. Like you... They just go to your house and pour boiling oil on your... George Peros standing at the end of your bed. Yeah.

What was the last time there was like even a suspensions of like two games? Yeah, I feel like this was a few weeks ago. I remember writing that there had only been one suspension all year. Like there were suspensions from the Lightning Panther stuff in the preseason. But it was, um, oh, it was. Who was it on the Islanders? The guy, why am I blanking on his name? Druent, Jonathan Druin.

Yes. Got a game. Okay. This is the total list of suspensions this season. Miko Ranton, the automatic one-game suspension. Jonathan Druin, one game for Crosscheck and Connor Dewar, it says here. And then on October 4th, Scott Sabarin, this is for, from a preseason game.

Right. Scott Sabarin, roughing, Aerenek, bled, got four games. So the Department of Player Safety since the season began has issued one suspension.

Correct. For one game. That's pretty wild for two months. And what's crazy is it's because there's been no dirty play in the entire NHL.

Just penalty-free every night? Beautiful hockey. Absolutely. We love it. This is the future liberals. want.

Not even a fine. That's the crazy part. I'm on the Wikipedia page for 2025 NHL suspensions and fines. And I'm not seeing a single fine listed here. Wow. Maybe I'm crazy. But it's Wikipedia. That might not be officially official.

But remember when Wikipedia was like, don't use Wikipedia, man. it's not reliable. And now it's like the most reliable website left on the internet. That's exactly right. You're like, oh, a human wrote that? Okay, that's pretty good. We'll go with that. Yeah, because it's a, it's an army of, you know what?

Let's see here. Fines. Okay, you know, yeah, there actually have been a few fines now that I'm, now that I'm looking at this. When do you think the last fine was, though? Idiots. What do you think the last fine was? November 1st, it says here. Really?

Okay. So we just had a whole month of clean, squeaky, clean hockey. That's exactly right. We got there. We did it. Most of the fines aren't even for the $5,000. You know, like they didn't even hit the absolute mass. They didn't even go to the maximum allowable under the TBA?

Sometimes they are the maximum allowable in given situations to be less, but we got a couple $2,500, one for $2,358.94 for Blake Jackson. Sure, right. Yeah. So there were a few fines. I was, the, the, the legal eagles over at Wikipedia aren't fully there. This is from scouting the refs. I would trust them.

Yes. More than, more than, uh, Wikipedia. But, yep, that's it. And, uh, again, oh, you know what? J.J. Mosher also got. two games for boarding in that in that Tampa, uh, Panthers game. Yep.

Um, but again, those are preseason games, I think so. And I feel like there were a bunch of fines in that one. Coaches get fined in that one. Tampa got fined $100,000 and John Cooper got fined $25,000. And then several players got fines, uh,

AJ Greer, Roman Schmidt and Gage Gonzalez all got fined coming out of that game. So, but yeah, no fines or suspensions, apart from the one gamer that Miko Rantonan had to get for the entire month of November. And most of October, quite frankly. So what a league. Anyway, yeah, I was going to say Jimmy Snuggaroo is out quite a while. He got wrist surgery, it sounds like. Mm-hmm.

That's a tough one. That sucks. He was having a nice little rookie season for himself. the blues really didn't need any more bad news than they've already received, and yet here we are. Too bad about Jimmy Snow Korea. That's a fun player to watch. You just hope it gets right. I mean, the wrist is not an area you want to mess with.

For sure. Yeah, as Gawson Matthews, you know. Yep. Finally here, seems like Carter Hart is starting for Vegas tonight. Okay. So that's a whole thing. What's interesting to me about that, though, is they signed him with, you know, the understanding of, like, he'll play in the NHL eventually or whatever.

He played three games in the AHL, and this is after he didn't really play for, like, almost two full years. Three games in the AHL, 839 save percentage. I don't get why Vegas is in such a big rush to get this guy into the NHL lineup. I, yeah. Maybe there's something else going on there that like it's contractual or something, but I'm, I'm just like, oh, this is this guy who sucked? Is that right? And the thing is even, and I don't remember if it was the coach or someone in the front office, but was talking about like, oh, you know, we're just going to have to accept that we're going to, it's going to have to bang some of the rust off. It's like, well, yeah, but you have the minors for that.

But I don't know. We'll see how it goes. you know. Anyway, I thought that bore mentioning. It's a big no thanks for me. One more bit of news here that's not related to the NHL that I think is pretty interesting here. I saw some people on social media,

you know, the various websites, saying, hey, the USHL filed for a name change. And I was like, huh? What does that mean? And so I found an article. from the end of November, actually, on the rink hive. I don't even know what that is. But the junior hockey landscape in North America is shifting beneath our feet, blah, blah, blah.

At the end of October, USHL Properties, Inc. quietly filed trademark applications for two intriguing names, the National Junior Hockey League, the NJHL, and the National Team Development League, NTL. These filings combined with recent high-level meetings between the NHL, C-HL, and National Hockey Federations have ignited speculation, blah, blah, blah. That is crazy. I wonder how much of it is, you know, just getting your ducks in a row for if it does happen.

But I think that if you're filing the trademarks, you've got to be pretty far along. Like, because last I had heard, like, this was an idea that was being floated and the, and the CHL was just kind of like, yeah, I guess we'll see. Okay. But, yeah, National Junior Hockey League, NJHL, this is all, there are screenshots and everything. So, you know, I don't have a ton else to say about it, but this is potentially seismic news in the world of hockey. I don't know. I'm excited to see where it goes because obviously with the new rules in the CHL in college,

like everybody's saying, okay, well, the USHL is about to become like a second tier league. And I don't, from what I understand, that would be bad for hockey. The view from the, from the NHL's perspective is that would be bad for hockey in the United States generally. because you would have almost all of your best American players going to the CHL. And then that maybe muscles out some more fringe Canadian players. And like the cascading effect is not particularly good for hockey in general. So you just say there are four teams in the CHL now and there's some way to, you know, include the U.S. in the CHL. and that's the outcome.

I don't know if you have any. No, this is first time hearing of it. It's pretty breaking news, it seems like, yeah. But pretty interesting, something to keep an eye on for sure. But yeah, it seems like people kind of noticed this back in October and then, or late October or early November, and then nothing really happened, but then people were like, oh, wait a second. This seems like it's actually a big deal.

So it's not a bore mentioning anyway, especially given my interest in college hockey personally. Sure. But again, potentially seismic shift for the entire hockey development pyramid, they call it. So there you go. I guess that's it. So why don't you hit them with the plugs and let's get out of here? Find me at the athletic. I will be on with Sean and Frankie on tomorrow's Athoutic hockey show.

The latest newsletter just dropped, in which I am trying to figure out which division in the NHL is the best. It's the Atlantic, right? Yeah, because that's the one my team's in. Everybody in its 500 or better. Can't say that. There's not a single loser in the entire group. insanely good, actually. So, yeah, and then I'll have a couple of posts coming later in the week.

Topics to be determined. Wow. For me, EliteProspects.com, I am doing college hockey stuff all season. We are coming up on the end of the first half. And I got to see Michigan live again this weekend. They played Harvard. They beat them twice. And I saw Will Horkoff, who is the Penguins, I think.

think he went like 24th or 25th overall in this past draft. Sean Horcoff's kid. Now, when you think of Sean Horcoff, you think of him as being a big tall guy? No, not really. I mean, I do, but I wouldn't say he was huge. His son is 6'6 or something like that. Uh-oh. Okay.

Yeah, he's a big boy. And with four goals on the weekend, two goals in both games, he is now the, and the, and NCAA leader in both points and goals by a pretty points not so much by a wide margin, but goals by a pretty wide margin at this point. He looks awesome. And yeah, it says here is Sean Horcoff six foot one. His son Will is listed, says here at six foot five. And boy, he plays like it too.

He's not one of these kids where it's like he's six five, but he's in the middle of the ice. He's making it all happen. looks fucking sick. So I don't know that he's like the runaway Hobie Baker favorite right now or anything. In fact, I know he's not because he hasn't done a ton to separate himself like that. But you lead the country in goals and points. You're the guy, you know? And so he's doing it.

He looks awesome. Michigan looks like, again, I've said it before, the best team in the country. So big shout out to the whole Wolverines. true. I'll say this too. This game was at Harvard. You wouldn't tell it by the, uh, by the jerseys in the crowd. It was all fucking blue jerseys. It was insane. They traveled insanely well. This is the day after Thanksgiving. A bunch of people were like, yeah, fuck Thanksgiving. I'm going to a Harvard game in my Michigan shirt. I did see one guy in a Michigan shirt and a

Harvard hat and I was like, buddy, you can't do that. Should have gone up and just knocked the hat off his head. you would have respected you for it. I just think it's insane to do that. Don't wear anything at that point. You know what? Like just wear a regular shirt that doesn't have any team logos on it. That's my thing.

Anyway, you can also find us at patreon.com slash puck soup. We have a bonus episode coming out later this week. And, you know, probably a bunch of other stuff coming your way, including the mailbag that we are about to go record. very exciting stuff. So again, that's patreon.com slash puck soup. All your bonus episode needs in case you are not sick of hearing us talk about hockey and other stuff.

So that's it for this week. And we'll be back next week and take it from there. So thanks so much for listening. Have a good one. Bye bye. Bye-bye.