Puck Soup - Bored of Governors

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Sean and Ryan talk about all the news out of the Board of Governors meetings, new NHL award names, Bo Horvat, and more.   Sponsored by Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from EP Rinkside. I am Sean McInou from The Athletic. And, you know, I didn't have this on the rundown I sent you last night, Sean. But then the guy went and scored a hat trick last night.

Alex Ovechkin, 800 career goals. That's a lot. There can't be that many guys in the 800 goal club. There's three. There's three ever. And one of them played before the invention of color TV, so that doesn't count. But also played for like 30 years after the invention of color TV as well. Yeah, I'm just saying like this guy, you know, I think he was like the Kaiser was around.

And he's skating around out there, you know what I mean? It's not the first way I would have thought to describe it, but yes. And then the other guy, he played before they invented goaltending. So that doesn't count either. You know? This guy, though, Alex Ovecgan, 800 goals, like an impossible number. It is. It is absolutely, to do it in this era is madness.

Now, to be fair, I think judging by the reaction of certain people in the hockey media, I think 600 of those were into empty net, so maybe that doesn't count either. Yep, because they didn't have empty nets when Wayne Gretzky was. No, no, Wayne Gretzky is not the all-time leader in empty net goals. Definitely not. I texted this to you, but it was very funny to me that you made a comment last week about how when there an empty net against the capitals, everybody has to pass to Ovechkin. And then some, well, it wasn't some blog, it was the Russian machine never breaks, like,

decided to fact check you. Yeah. And then what happened? You were absolutely 100% right. That's crazy. Wow. Interesting. Like they ran the numbers of like percentage of shots taken on empty nets or something

like that. And they were like, oh, yeah. Yeah. They said like 70% of all shot. attempts when Ovechkin is on the ice with an empty netter are by Alex Ovec. Yeah. So once again, you were right in your analysis. Yeah.

But my favorite, that's just, you don't, you don't have to, like, run the numbers on this. Watch the fucking Capitals play. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It reminds me of, and again, this in no way diminishes Ovechkin's record because Gretzky has more empty net goals than anybody. So it's a non-starter. But it does, it reminds me of, like,

I remember one year I had the whatever the latest NHL game was and where you like the where you played as yourself and you just sat on the bench and I wasn't good at the game

and I couldn't play like in that first person style so all I did was like wait until the end when there was an empty net and then force everyone to pass to me and I like led the league and goals but they were all it's like that it's just he's mashing the pass button that's right and And yeah, but my favorite thing about last night was that he's like he scores a few seconds in the game, scores again very quickly. 24, 25 seconds in something like that.

And then another two minutes later. So he's got two goals. He's at 799. And just literally anyone who follows and appreciates the NHL at all was like, oh, he's getting his 800 tonight. Like there is no way he's going to get to 799 and then not get it. In fact, I saw somewhere where it was like, like how long it took him to get to each of the 100 goal milestones after the 99 goals. And it was like one game at the most. Like this dude just smells the records, the milestones, 50 goal marks, whatever they are.

And you just know he's going to get it. Yeah, I didn't start out watching this game last night. I mean, to watch a Capitol's Chicago game. Sure. there's got to be something better anybody could do with their time but someone I so obviously I saw that he scored two goals and I was like okay I'll check it out and someone I follow was at the game and just took a picture of like you know the capital's bench in the middle of the second period or something and everybody's sitting down watching the play and

Alex Ovechkin is just like fully standing up like completely straight like ready to go back out there I was like he's one, like nobody has ever been this intense about standing against a team that's like got one win in its last 40 games or whatever. So it's like a dog when there's bacon somewhere. Like he's 100%. Yeah. Like all senses aligned toward I got to put this fucking puck in the back of the net. Now I was a little disappointed that it wasn't a power play goal from the top of the left circle. Right.

Yeah. Well, but it was just kind of. But he's saving that for the record breaker, right? Like, that's got to be the, it's like, you know, when, like, who's going to give up the home run that breaks the record? Like, who's going to take the penalty that puts Ovechkin there? Yeah. And, I mean, I said break the record as in Gretzky, but he's now one goal away from Gordy Howe. Tying Gordy Howe.

Tying Gordy Howe. Yeah. The thing that's amazing to me, obviously, Obviously, Yager is like still an active player, quote unquote. Well, I guess we'll talk about that briefly later on. But like, Crosby is the next closest guy. Came into the league at the same time as Ovechkin. The next closest guy on like the all-time career goals list.

And he's like 160-something goals behind Alex Ovechkin. Yeah. It's truly. And it's Sydney Crosby. Like one of the greatest players. I got to run the numbers on that. 260-something goals. Yeah.

Because Crosby's at 534. So talking about the eras, by adjusted goals. Yeah. Ovechkin is already the leader. Of course he not surprisingly. What I think will surprise people is he's only just like 10 goals ahead of number two. And number two is not Wayne Gretti. Number two is Gordy Howe.

Gordy Howe's number goes up significantly by adjusted goals because before the dead puck era and before the 70s and 80s were insane, the 50s and 60s were pretty low scoring. And that's where Gordy Howe was scoring most of his goals. Then it's Yager and then it's Wayne Gretzky kind of well back in fourth spot, not that far ahead of Timoslani and Brett Hall and even Jerome McGinla is up there. Again, not taking anything away from Gretzky, but just the ridiculousness of, like if you had told somebody, in like 2005 when the lockouts going on and like the absolute depths of the dead puck era and the games are so boring and low scoring and like somebody's just won the rock of

Richard with 41 goals and you were like yeah this guy's going to break gretsky's goal scoring record for his career no that's that's what's crazy about it like i very earnestly thought even you know pretty recently there's no you know last four or five years, let's say. There's, look, he's having a great run, but like 800 is out of reach.

Hmm. And then he's like, no, I'm at the age of 34. I'm going to score 48 goals in 68 games. Yep. I'm going to, I'm going to put up 50 as a 36 year old.

Like, again, again, we, I had this lower in the rundown, I guess, but like, uh,

Ted Leonce has told Gronk Winkowski the other day. Like, we're not rebuilding because we're fully aligning this organization to get Ovechkin the Goals record.

And if we rebuild, he probably won't be able to do it. Which, that's fine, whatever. But it's like, it's really, I think it's really cool that they're like, no, no, no. This is like what we're all about now. I think that rock. And super against like the traditional hockey ethos of like it's all about the team and it's all about the cup. There's no individual anything that ever trumps the team.

And but you know, here's the capital's going, no, this is like the coolest record in all of hockey. Of course we're not going to let the guy finish like 20 back just because we wanted to draft 10th overall instead of 25th. Let me ask you this. Do you think there's that kind of attitude if they didn't win the cup a few years ago? You know what? That's a fair point.

I wonder. They got the cup. So what is it? So what do they have to do have? You know, they do have. And, you know, obviously two cups is better than one. But one is so much better than zero that it's, yeah, it definitely. Yeah, I guess that's true.

The difference between. one in two and one in zero is technically the same, but not at all. But it's not. Yeah. Not even a little bit. And like, you know, that, that, that, that cup felt like the end of something. Like nobody was like, okay, and this team is about to go on a big run, you know, like it did. I mean, that was arguably the worst capitals team of, yeah, that's what I mean.

Of, of their close call. I mean, they didn't really have any close calls before that, but you know what I mean? like the yeah no that that that's what i'm saying like there wasn't anybody who was like oh they just need to fix one or two things and they're they're right back in at competing for a stanley cup again everybody was like it's great they won the stanley cup now let's uh think about the tab bay lightning a little bit you know um but yeah i like i say i i i would have said you know like 700 would have been an insane number for like you like you say he comes into the league this guy's going to hit 700 goals i'd have been like wow

Wow. Really? And that obviously he had like 50 something as a rookie. So maybe it becomes a little more believable. But still, to put up 700 career goals, only like, what, 15 guys have done it ever? Well, you would have said, like, if somebody had told you that, you would have said. Seven. Yeah, you would have been like, oh, so I guess like all of these rule changes they're making in the lockout must really work. And like, scoring goes back up to 80s levels.

And it's like, no. it goes up by like a quarter of a goal and everybody freaks out and pats himself on the back. But other than that, it's just this dude can't. And I mean, you're looking at it going like, what's going to slow him down? Because, you know, he's not a guy who lives and dies on his speed. So if he loses half a step, you know, okay. You know, he's well-conditioned. Like, it's like his number one skill is, well, I mean, it's probably the shot.

and that isn't something that fades all that much with time. But it's just like he's this goal scoring freak. It's like that's all his brain is wired to do. Like I remember somebody once reading somewhere that like Peyton Manning, one of the all-time great NFL quarterbacks, was basically a moron off the field. Like he didn't know how can openers worked and stuff like that. They were just like his entire brain is dedicated to being a football genius.

and he has no room for anything else. And it just feels like Ovechkin is kind of that with scoring goals. Like if Huck in the net, yeah. If he had been born with this brain and hockey didn't exist, he just, he would probably just be wandering, like, you know, wandering the streets because his, he is so wired to, like, put the little round black thing into the net. That's it.

Isn't he, wasn't he a good soccer player? Am I making that up? I haven't heard that, but I wouldn't, Wouldn't shock me. Yeah. Yeah, I can't. There's just, he played like a game in Russia against like a social media all-star team or something like that. Oh, well, I mean.

Guys who are popular on social media for being good at like soccer tricks or whatever. Oh, okay. And he did score a goal against them. But like, you know, obviously that's fake. But that could also be like, you know, like, you know, like. You ever see, like, an elite athlete try to play sport that they're not elite at? Yeah. They just pick up, like, a baseball bat.

They're like, I don't even know which way to hold it. And then they hit the ball 500 feet because they're like, insanely good athletes. And they're like, oh, yeah, I forgot. Everything is super easy for me. And you're just like, I hate you. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, anyway, point being, you know, Gordy Howe, he's, he's got maybe two days left as the number two goal scorer of all time. It's over.

Ovechkin is, you know, like a dog on a bone here. It's not going to happen. Ovechkin's not going to have like a seven-game drought. No, no, no, no, no. He's been going absolutely crazy scoring goals lately. He's got, uh, says here seven in his last four games. Well, it's like the, there was the other thing that I think Leonez has said where he said, like, Gretzky had committed to following Ovechkin, like when he, if,

and when he gets close to the overall record that like, which I'm like, yeah, so what, like two games? Like, he's going to go from like 10 back of Gretzky to breaking Gretzky's record in three games. Once he gets that close. Yeah. If he, once he gets to like 870 or whatever, it's over. Yeah. Like he will actually be like frothing at the opening face off. Do you remember the old, the old commercial where it's like the Ovech trick?

Maybe you didn't have this in Canada. But, like, he's talking about, oh, I'm not going to, I'm not going to score hat tricks. I'm going to score Ovet's tricks. And I believe it was nine goals in a game, like a hat trick of hat tricks. And, like, he'll actually do that once he gets within striking. Like, there will be just three games in a row where he puts up a combined 30 goals. And it's like, that's it. Bye, Wayne.

Yep. But, yeah, I do like the idea of Gretzky following the, like, 20, 24, 25 capitals around, like, the grateful, dead. Yeah. Yeah. It's literally unbelievable to me. He's, Gretzky's going to be following him around because he will be playing for all the

opponents on one-day contracts. That's right. Just throwing his body at the puck every time he's out there. So we love, we love Alexander Ovechkin when he is on the ice and scoring goals and not talking about anything that isn't scoring goals. Yeah, that's right. Keep that up, Alex.

Yep. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the other big news of the week. They did Board of Governors, and boy, newsworthy board of governors meeting. Number one with a bullet for me. Gary Betman says actually people love the moving ads that everybody hates. So stupid.

So, like, classic, classic Gary Bettman. Because he doesn't, like, I think. I know that there's a lot of people that hate the ads or find that they really diminish being able to watch the game. A lot of people find them, you know, if you have different conditions, especially, like, you know, kind of mentally draining even in a way that you might not fully understand. And there was a good thread by some advertising guy last week where he was like explaining some of the effects of, you know, what's happening, what your brain is trying to deal with with these. ads. And other people don't even notice it. I hear from a lot of people who are like, I noticed it for one game and I haven't even noticed it since. It doesn't bother me at all. And Gary Batman, like, it's a revenue source. Gary Bedman could have said, look, it's an important revenue source.

It's new technology. We're happy with how it works, but there are some glitches. It's going to get better. And, you know, we take the fan, you know, complaints seriously and we're going to keep trying to improve it. And everybody would have got that. Nobody was going to complain about that. But no, Gary Bettman has to say. Okay. Nobody's going to complain about that. Well, people are going to understand it, right? Like, I mean, it's the NH. It's like you can complain about ads on jerseys, but you know why they're doing it. And, you know, so okay. Yeah, for sure. No, I get it. I'm just saying, like, the idea that no one. Well, I feel like even the most, you're right. Somebody would complain. But even the fans who like hate Gary Batman or whatever, they hate him because they're like he's all about the bottom line, et cetera, et cetera,

which, you know, so what would you expect him to do here? He's obviously not going to get up there and be like, yeah, these ads aren't working. We're taking them down. So he could have just said new technology. We're ironing out some kinks, you know, but we're going to. Yeah, like I said before, my big problem with them is, well, A, when they move, like that's what makes it distracting. I don't, I really don't notice it when they're not moving, but they're moving all the fucking time. You know?

And the other thing is that, you know, guys are fucking clipping through it like a PlayStation 2 game. Yeah. And that's the problem. That's the only problem. But that's the thing. Like, I've had people who, who've said, like, I don't even know, like, I don't even notice them other than when they're animated or they glitch. And it's like, so you do notice them. So you notice them 80% of the time.

Yeah. So again, like, Batman could have said that. But instead, being Gary Bettman, he has to say, no, no. He has some magic fan survey that tells him. I have the quote. However dumb I try to make it sound, I won't do it justice. The polling with our fans gives us the feedback that it's a non-issue. And here's where it gets good.

In fact, many think it looks better than having the numerous logos and ads on the dasher boards. It's working extraordinarily well, particularly for the complexity that's involved in doing it. um this is classic donald trump you've never seen guys so big coming up to me tears in their eyes thank you mr trump i can go to the bathroom again you know like this this is this is exactly that and and as i as i tweeted out this is something that betman has done for years whenever there's criticism he he can't just defend whatever the thing is you know if it's something that he likes or that the owners like because it makes them money he he invents these fake feedback mechanisms from that like no actually uh you know it's you you you you don't know these

fans because they go to a different school in Canada but they they all like they actually think it enhances their experience it's like what are you talking about it's the equivalent of when somebody's getting like when somebody's getting crushed on Twitter and they're like I actually I'm getting a lot of DMs from people telling me that I'm right but you know they just enough about Elon Musk right folks So it's just ridiculous. And again, he could have just said, like, hey, it is what it is. We're making a lot of money off of it.

We'll try to get it to be a little bit better. And people would have understood. And instead, he gets a day of everyone being mad because he has to make up this obviously. Well, put it this way. I hope that this is what it looks like. And it's him citing fake, made up fan surveys. because the other option, and this, from my experience in the real world, the number one red flag on any leadership is do they actually want real feedback?

And do they really, not just from people around them, but from customers, do they actually want to know what the customers say, or do they only want to be told that everything's great? And if they only want to be told everything's great, then you're screwed. because you will fail. Without question, if the leader can't, if their ego can't handle being told that, like, hey, the customers don't like this new feature or this new product or whatever, then you're screwed because you will be wasting your time on junk forever.

And I really hope that Betman, and this is why I say it's fake, because I do think Gary Betman for all my criticism is a very smart guy. And I think he's just making this up because he can't admit. something might be wrong in front of the media and the fans. I really hope it's not the other option, which is that there's this whole mechanism in place to provide Gary with numbers that tell him that everything is amazing. Because if that's the case, then the NHL is screwed

because you're never going to get any better that way. Yeah. The other quote is, if what you're doing is just watching the dashboards, which I guess if you're reporting on it, you might do, then it may be a distraction. If you're watching the game, it's not a distraction. Again, it's the moving thing. It's always, it's always the media making these things up, picking on poor Gary.

Just like the cap hit thing a few years ago that, you know, that's only the media cares about cap hits. Just like it was the media that made up tanking, that tanking is a media creation. It's always, you're right. I mean, this is, I mean, he's been doing this for years. But now it's like, this is full on Donald Trump shit. Like whenever somebody says, something you don't like. It's just, you just say it's the media.

And we're actually hearing more and more that when there's a team on the ice with red jerseys, that they want the dashboard ads to be red also. Yeah. We're hearing that more and more these days and people are saying it's actually the best idea they've ever heard. We're hearing that instead of big animated pucks, they should be puck-sized animated pucks. That's right. And they fly into the net and then there's like an animated red light. Yeah, it'll be great.

Yeah, it's really cool. The other thing Betman said about the Dasher board ads is that they are, quote, exceeding expectations in terms of revenue. Wow. So just say that, man. That's good. But they are going to miss. Remember when Gary Betman was like, oh, the cap might go up $40 million over the summer. Once we get all this and then it's like, oh, is that going to happen?

No, it's not going to happen. they're actually going to miss that sharp that sharper cap increase i've seen two numbers okay i've seen 70 million and i've seen between 140 and 150 million um i think it i think on the the 140 to 150 side that's that's maybe a bit much that then can be negotiated away um but if it's 70 million they're 100% going to hammer out something maybe the capital won't go up $4 million, but will it go up two and a half, three? Maybe. So, so to, to explain this to people, this is the, we all know about escrow, right? If, if, if the player, if the players make their 50%, but then it turns out it was more than 50% than they claw some back in escrow and the

players don't like that, but it's, it's part of the deal. It's the 50-50 split that they have. the COVID comes along, revenue's crater, because obviously you're playing in empty buildings and that sort of thing. But rather than have all the players immediately take like a 50% pay cut or whatever it would have taken to get the numbers back in line, the players keep making their money and they rack up this big debt to the owners. And that's why the cap is flat because it's basically like, you know, it would be like if you took out this big loan on something and then you've got to raise and, you know, you're making more money. but you're not making more money because all your money is going to pay down that loan that you took out. And the players have almost paid it down. And once they have paid it down, then the cap starts going back up again.

And there was some thought that because revenue is ahead of schedule, that they would be ahead of schedule on paying off the escrow. It doesn't sound like they're going to get there, but they could sit down with the Players Association and basically negotiate something and say rather than missing by a little bit this year, have the cap be flat, and then next year the cap jumps up by $5 million, what if we did?

Probably way more than that. Or potentially more than that. What if we had it go up a little bit this year and then a little bit more the year after and basically, you know, rather than saying you guys owe us this $150 million this year, we spread it over two years. And there's different ways you could negotiate that and everything.

And again, Like with anything escrow related, it's tricky for the players because they have to decide, you know, if the players want the cap to go up because that way the guys who need new contracts get more money. But they also don't want the cap to go up because the guys who already have contracts don't want to pay more escrow. And the owners really shouldn't care because it's 50-50 to them. They don't, you know, it doesn't really matter how you dice it up. but I suspect I felt like this was more of a kind of priming the pump for

like let's get a deal done than it was the way that some people took it which was Cap is definitely now not going up next year let's let's see how it goes no yeah that was that was 100% NHLPA you know you got my number get in touch and of course you know this being Gary Betman

it'll have to be a fight it'll turn into you know the owners will squeeze everything on the players that they can because that's how they always work. Well, but they'll probably figure something else. Well, so you say that, but this is a quote that our old friend Grange got from an anonymous NHLGM. I just wish they would give us certainty. One general manager told ESPN, I'm totally hamstrung not knowing how to plan for the future. would be great if they could give us even a sense of what it might look like in the next three years.

Look, what do we always say, Sean? These guys are like desperately trying not to do their jobs. Yep. Now, if I was in NHLGM and I was like, oh, shit, I don't know what the cap looks like next year. Maybe for the whatever, $2 million I make a year, I sit down and I go, okay, this is what I'm going to do if it's an $83 million salary cap. this is what I'm going to do if it's an $87 million salary cap. Yep. And as much as I'm usually first in line to dump on Gary Betman,

while I sympathize with that GM, they just don't know yet. That's why you don't have guidance. And Gary Bettman gave some guidance, which is we might get there, and now he's given new guidance, which is we might not. Like, that's all they know. This is not Gary Betman being cute or withholding information. and he just, he's told you what they know, but they just don't know the answer yet.

Yeah, the thing about, but that's my point, though, is about the thing where the owners maybe do, maybe don't want, I think, oh, I think GMs are telling their owners, I would really like to have that salary cap go up. Sure. Yeah, so that I can give it all to a third line, 32-year-old winger that used to. Look, I'll hear of, that is the son of my former roommate.

But the other thing about all this is that they said that if the right teams in the right markets make the playoffs, go on deep runs, et cetera, they could make up that whatever, $70, $150 million, whatever the number is. They could make up all that in one. So folks, Chicago's tanking. Yeah. Chicago's tank. The ranges are out of the playoffs. The Leaves could get a whole bite, so that gets you four games instead of the usual three. So, I mean, that's good.

But let me ask you this, though. First of all, the Rangers are playing pretty well right now. Since we talked about how they looked like shit, they've won like four of their last five or whatever. Now I'm going to look up, it says they've gotten 42 power plates per game. That's interesting. Strange. I didn't know you were allowed to put your net down flat on the ice like that. Yeah, Rangers on a four in a row heater.

So it's all working out for them. But hey, those wins include, they beat St. Louis, obviously, but Vegas, Colorado, and New Jersey, are those good teams to beat? Yeah, that is. I'm just laughing at the, you know, as long as the big markets, like, all right, Chicago and Montreal, bad, New York, Toronto. Meanwhile, like, the top of the east is New Jersey and Carolina. Okay.

They're really trying to figure out a way to make. make it like Boston versus the Rangers versus the Leafs in Stanley Cup. Dallas and Winnipeg and, okay, yeah, this is awesome. This is, uh, Boston, it's all on you guys. For the first time ever, it's a fatal four-way match in the cup final. Exactly. Best of 28. Let's make it happen, folks. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, no, I, you know, I, this is, this is something like I say. I think they'll figure something out. I can't imagine that GMs are going to sit there and go. Yeah, it's another million dollar increase in the salary cap. But we talk about that. It also seems like, well, there's a bit of a split, I guess, among people who do and do not want a play-in round. I introduced to the NHL playoffs.

Pierre LeBron talked to 12 governors at the Board of Governors, at the Board of Governors meeting. And all of them said, yeah, that sounds great to me. Yep. And then he talked, the media talked to Gary Bettman, and Gary Bettman was like,

it's not fucking happening. Stop. And this is where, anytime I criticize Batman, I always get people saying, like, Bettman doesn't do anything. He just reports to the owner,

like he just does whatever the teams tell him to do. Like he makes 10 million a year to be a stenographer. And, uh, this is an example of that not being the case. because it sounds like there's a lot of, I mean, governors, the governors aren't the owners, but they represent them that want this. And you can imagine, right, bottom line, it's, you know, more playoffs or whatever.

But this has been one where I got to give him this. He's consistent. Gary Bettman has set a bug up his ass about this for years now. He just does not want to even consider this. I'm in favor of it. I like what the NBA is doing. I think it would be cool. And as I've explained before, I think it would, contrary to Gary Bettman saying that it makes the regular season less meaningful, I think it makes it more meaningful because the different inflection points in the standing start to matter more rather than just eight teams make the playoffs and eight don't.

But yeah, Gary Bettman is adamant. This is absolutely not happening on his watch. I would love for him to explain that, to like sit down and give like a, you know, like I say, he's a smart guy. Give like a two-minute nuanced answer that isn't just sound bites about we have the best season in the world and all this stuff and it's working great. Like, I would love to hear what he actually thinks on this and why it's such a non-star. People think the system we have in place right now is working extraordinarily well. And frankly, there's nothing better in sports playoffs than our first round. I'm not sensing much of an appetite for change.

adding teams to the Stanley Cup playoffs is, quote, looking to fix a problem that doesn't exist. And then here's the other thing, he says. I'm not sure it enhances revenues. Diluting the regular season and diluting the playoffs doesn't make much sense to me. I think having the systems where half the teams make it

and half the teams don't, I think that's perfect. Now, here's the thing. I agree with Gary Bettman. If anything, too many teams make the playoffs for me. In terms of, I want to see, like, good teams play each other a lot, you know? And there are too many playoff teams that make it and are bad.

But the difference between the bad playoff team and the best team in the league is, like, six points. Like, there's no, like, aren't there, like, basically 20 or 24 good enough teams in the NHL every year? And then, like, eight teams that are tanking? No. I, my point is, like, all these teams that are. are like 16th best in the league or whatever. Those teams are like not good usually. Like Nashville last year.

And obviously their goalie got hurt so that skews things a little bit. But like they're going into that series against the avalanche. Are you like, boy, this will be an interesting series that'll be fun to watch? No, you're going, this is going to be a fucking pointless bloodbath that only exists to give the Predators fucking two home games. the playoff revenue. Yeah, but you still see, like, you still see those, those upset. In fact, I'm told that that's what makes the playoffs so great is that we, you never know who's going to win.

And last year, there weren't those upsets. But other years, this is, but this is, I mean, the capitals gave the, gave the Panthers a, a real serious last year, at least. Like, that wasn't, uh, yeah, but everybody in, but everybody in the east was a hundred point team. Right. Right. Because, yeah, in the east last year, the regular season meant nothing.

It was, could not have been less interesting. I wrote an article like in December or like November even maybe last year going like the season is over in the Eastern Conference. There's such a clear delineate anyway. We don't need to fucking talk about the 2021, 22 season. But I just think in general like the team that is 16th in the league, regardless of what conference they're in. kind of stinks. It's just how it is. Especially because we always talk about,

all those teams are there because they've artificially inflated their point total by losing an overtime a bunch. Like the John Tortorella method, you know? Yeah. And look, I get why obviously, and believe me, I just like, is 16 better than 18 or 20? One million percent. Look at the bubble playoffs.

They let any fucking Tom Dick and Harry in the league that, year playing the playoffs. And then, you know, I guess my point. And then the two worst teams won and beat the two best teams in the playoff round. Yeah. And that sucks. I want to, again, I want to see good teams. Right.

You know, I want to. So how do you, how do you feel about the, because you're, you're the basketball guy. And the NBA does this. Yeah. And the NBA, and I've said this before, by the way, in the NHL, like, do a play in round and then call whatever. it comes after that the playoffs. Make up a new term for the play in round.

Don't say that it's the playoff. If people really want to say like 16 teams have to make the playoffs, okay. Let it be 16 teams then just have a play in round to get there. Because how does it work in the NBA, right? Like seven plays eight and nine plays ten. The winner of seven against eight goes on. The loser of seven versus eight plays the winner of nine, ten. So you get two chances if you're seven eighth.

You get one, you have to go two and oh if you're nine and ten. Yes, that's right. And does it work? Like as a fan of the NBA, are you, do you like it? Do you not? I'm going to look it up really quickly here, but it looks like the better teams won both games. Or all four games as a matter. Because the NBA, like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the NBA, the playoffs are go far, far more according to chalk than the NH as far as the good teams.

somebody ran the numbers several years ago and I don't remember the exact details now but it's like you know 80% of the time in the NBA the better team on paper wins and to get similar results in the NHL I can't remember the exact number but it was something like you would need to play a best of like 49 or 51 series we're willing to do that yeah let's go um I got I got let's just start the playoffs and in like October and then, you know, they go on for two years. That's perfect for me. That would really tell you who the best team is.

It would. But yeah, I mean. Leaves would still lose. For sure, yeah. Do or die, game 237. Yeah, every time. But yeah, no, the, I don't like it in the NBA. But the better team wins 99 times out of 100.

This is like way more nakedly, boy, you know, it would be great is a little bit of extra TV and gate revenue. I mean, not that if they did it in the NHL, that wouldn't be the exact fucking reason. But the problem in the end, the, the, the, the, the NBA doesn't have the problem that the NHL does where there's a bunch of like deeply mediocre to bad teams. competing for like, well, look, we could, we could be the team that accidentally ends up with 96 points this year and finish ninth in the Eastern Conference and host a play-in round. Like, that doesn't, that doesn't exist. You know what I mean in the NBA? Like, that just, there are maybe three teams. And those teams are not, like, bad because they, they have a bad roster. necessarily a lot of those teams are either teams that are like kind of powering out of rebuilds or like had it like the nets last year had to play in the play in and and they they just had a bunch of injuries and the whole chry irving well to say the whole chry irving thing that that could that could imply a lot of stuff but this was the chyrie irving wouldn't get the the covid vaccine so he couldn't play at home problem find like in the NHL people are like but what about those those great races where it comes down to

the final weekend and you know eighth and ninth are is really up for grabs and it's like first of all that seems to happen once every five years correct yeah and second of all like that would now happen every year except instead of like you know oh the it comes down to the flames and oilers for the final wild card in the in the west and the oilers are playing the coyotes and the flames are the avalanche, but the avalanche have already clenched. So they're resting all their players. Like, what a great showdown. Instead, it would be like Edmonton against Calgary for that spot. Go. Like, what's, I don't see what the objection is there. But again, like, I can see when people are like, I don't know if I'm sold. I kind of like this, I kind of like that. I get it. Like, I'm like,

yeah, okay, this is one of those things I don't feel like super strongly about. But it's just when Gary Batman is like, no, non-issue, non-discussion. It would make revenue go down. What? be talking about. For sure, yeah. No, I actually think I think nobody would go to those games at all. Not a single person would go and it's like,

that doesn't sound right to me. Yeah. But yeah, no, like I... Give the tickets away. I guess my thing is, I think it's a bad idea, but the idea that it's a bad idea because it wouldn't help revenue,

that's fake. Just say it's because you don't want a bunch of teams, that aren't particularly good making the quote unquote playoffs. We did this three years ago. But he can't say that because the big lie that the NHL sells is that everybody's 25 teams are actually really good. Yeah, no, but like, again, the argument against it is, remember how bad the play-in round

was during COVID? Yeah, now imagine they do that every year and you have to pretend to give a shit about it. Yeah. Because it would be like a short series or like one game. Like, it would be like just drop you right into game seven. I think it would be cool as hell. Like in baseball, when you get like a one-game wild card. It's probably not the best way to decide 162 game season, but you're watching.

Well, that's what he's saying when he says it devalues the regular season. Now, my argument would be the teams in the 9-10, those teams stink. Who cares? Yeah. And you know what else devalues the regular season? Obsessively, constantly always saying. saying that only the Stanley Cup matters. Yep.

To the point that you don't even touch any of the other trophies. The fact that nobody knows who wins the president's trophy in any given year. Seating doesn't matter. Like, I feel like that devalues it more. The NBA is introducing their own version of the president's trophy starting this season. I did not. I'm surprised they didn't already have one.

They just announced that this week. And it was a bunch of people saying the same shit that you hear about in the NHL when you talk about the president's trophy about, oh, well, I thought the big trophy was the one that matters. The other one, what do we give a shit about the regular season one anyway? Yeah. So, I mean, like, what devalues the regular season is the Florida Panthers have 120 points. Right.

And then losing the second round and everyone's like failures. You guys are garbage. You're the same as the Arizona Coyotes because you didn't win the cup. Anyways, speaking of the NBA dot, dot, dot, dot segue to next segment? No, we're going to take a break after one last thing. One last thing, though, on the board of guys. governor's stuff. I don't really have a lot to say about the senators having a bunch of would-be buyers. That's fine. Whatever. There was a quote at the bottom of this article that was both by

Gringe and Emily Kaplan. I didn't see Emily's name. I've heard of her. Yeah. Cool. That's nice that she's working with the kind of the more junior people. That's cool. That's right. there was a quote from Colin Campbell about high sticking. Oh, right. Yes. That was bat shit crazy. Absolutely insane for me. This is a quote.

Colin Campbell, high ranking guy at the NHL. A high sticking will always be called for two minutes if it just touches a face or head. Because when we brought that rule in, there were maybe 15% of the players wearing Now it's automatic. Should we look at them again? So what he's saying is there's too many high-sticking calls in the NHL. We've got to do less to protect guys' faces and heads.

Have you ever in your life heard anyone complain about this? Never. Well, no, that's not true. Because in a recent game between the Calgary Flames and Toronto Maple Leafs in which Jonathan Hubertoe was called for a high-sticking minor at the start of overtime, as his stick accidentally connected with. the face of defenseman Rasmus Sandin. The Leifes won the game on the ensuing power play.

Read the Campbell quote. This is... I know it was a penalty, but was there a penalty? Is that fair? This guy is a genius. I know it was a penalty, but was there a penalty? Here's the thing. Because he hit the guy in the face with his stick.

Because here's the thing. If you commit a penalty that draws blood, automatic four minutes, it doesn't matter whether you meant to do it or not. If you put the puck over the glass, automatic two minutes, doesn't matter if you meant to do it or not. But if you hit a guy in the face with your stick, now wait a minute, we're going to think about this. So fucking funny. This league is insane.

And it's very clear that like what happened here is some GM or some, you know, owner or whatever just got cranky about some call. Probably Calgary, but maybe not. It's Calgary. Yeah. What's the, what's the example that comes to mind? Oh, the one I just got screamed at about on the phone a week ago. Yeah. Is that a penalty?

I love that. Because that was the game where like Daryl Sutter after the game was like, oh, you know, oh, we're in Toronto. We know what that is. And like Myrtle tweeted out that the Leafs have drawn like the 28th most penalties in the league over the last few years. And it's like which of the three hitting the other team in the face with your stick penalties would you like to see? And now I guess we've answered it. This one where the guy clearly, you know, because it wasn't like he just like it was some weird technicality. Like he tapped him on the back of the helmet or something.

He hit him in the face with the stick, but should it be a penalty? Because it happened in overtime, and they can't manage the game properly. I know it's a penalty, but is it a penalty? Greatest quote in the history of the NHL. Is it a penalty? Yes. Should there be a penalty on there? Well, I got to think about that.

By the way, you know what we should change about high sticking? And I'm surprised this doesn't come up more, but this is the one thing I would change. Why do we still have the, it's okay to high stick someone on a follow-through? thing. Has that not ever... Do you ever see like a dude like get whacked right in the face with a stick and he's like picking his teeth off the ice

and they're on the replay they're like, well, let's see if this was a follow-through though because that's like we don't do slap shots anymore in this league. So we don't have to worry about that. How about if you're clearing the puck, you don't swing your stick six feet off the ground on your follow-through and we just

don't worry about it. But I guess I'm going the wrong direction. Colin Campbell's... What if everything was a follow-through? Really isn't everything that happens after another thing a follow-through, if you really think about it. I think you're right about that. The one last thing I want to say about this is, you know who I heard was very much in favor of getting rid of this kind of penalty? Is Thomas Shabbat.

That was so funny. Yeah. It was so great. Yeah. If you haven't seen it, just Google, Thomas Shabbat, Travis Hamannick. Which, I mean, it was very funny, first of all, because it reminds all of us that Travis Hamannick is still, on the senators. And we thought that team was going to make the playoffs this year.

Is that right? I think it was 50-50. Okay, sure. Did we, did anyone call, like, Keith Ballard? Like, did he get a phone call when this happened to, like, what does it feel like when you absolutely smash your own teammate in the face with a stick? I feel like this is a job for my friend Sean McIndoo. You know, like, Keith Ballard woke up the next morning to, like, 30 texts and was like,

God. That's right. But anyway, yeah, that's it. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back with some other stuff. Our sponsor this week is a partner that has a product that gets used in my house every day. As my wife and I continue to fight over it, that, of course, is our old friends at Athletic Greens. What is this stuff?

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the NBA is renaming a bunch of its awards and also introducing at least one, maybe even a couple beyond that. The Clutch Player of the Year award, the NBA, is introducing. There's one other one I feel like. Anyway, I can't find it right now. But the other thing they're doing is renaming a bunch of trophies in honor of all-time greats. The NBA MVP will be the micro-examination.

Jordan trophy. Defensive player of the year will be the Hakeem O'Alajewan trophy. Rookie of the year is the Wilt Chamberlain. Sixth man is the John Havlicek. And most improved is the George Miken. So that's nice. I know who some of those people are.

George Miking. I think that guy played for like the Minneapolis Lakers or whatever. And as my kids would depressingly say Michael Jordan is the guy from all those memes. It's true. He's the cry. guy who took that personally tells you to stop and get some help.

Yeah. And that's all they know about him. Oh, boy, that, now there's a Michael Jordan meme even I forgot about. Stop. Get some help. Yeah. There you go. But yeah, so obviously this just made everybody go, like everybody with our kind of jobs, go, well, this is an easy 20 minutes on the podcast.

Let's sit back. Let's crack the knuckles. Yep. First of all, do you think the, the NHL should introduce any additional awards beyond the 58 they already give up. Yeah. I could see the argument for like a defensive defenseman. See, that's the one everybody always says

and it's just like, yeah, I guess I don't, especially the, like, maybe in fucking 2004, that would have made sense. It would feel kind of like introducing like the enforcer reward and you're like, oh. Right, that's exactly right. The goalie who still stands on both his feet and kind of kicks at the puck award. Yeah. What I would do if I was going to, and I guess my answer is I don't feel any pressing need to add new awards,

but what I might do is introduce a like forward of the year award and then keep the MVP, but the MVP like, because right now the MVP is basically the best forward award, except for very rare cases. Sure. And part of that is because you're filling out your ballot and it's like, well, I put Shasturkin down for the Vezna. I put Kail McCar down for the Norris. Now I got to do McDavid and Matthews and McKinnon and whatever else. And so I would do, yeah, I would do it that way. I don't think I do like, the NFL is weird because the NFL has offensive and defensive player of the year. And then sometimes the MVP is not either of those two guys, which seems strange, but maybe it isn't because it helps

crystallize what value or valuable means. But I think that's what I would do. And then obviously I would scrap eight of the ten, he's a really nice guy awards, because it's like we get it. I do like the most improved player award. Yeah. I think that would really, I think that would really be fun and interesting and that kind of stuff.

Now, it's most improved, not comeback, right? Correct. Okay. Yeah, I like that better than... Usually it goes to like a third or fourth year guy who like finally took a big step or whatever. Tage Thompson wins it four years in a row. Yeah, that would be the perfect example. But I don't know that there's ever been a two-time winner of the George Mikan Trophy for the most improved player, you know?

I don't think it's ever happened. So, like, you know, because you hear all the time, like, oh, you know, he, if he hadn't been injured as a rookie, he would have, he would have won the Calder. Blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, if you have the most improved player, that guy can have, like, a good second year and off you go. But I would like to see, if we had that, I would like it to be like, like a Tage Thompson, who goes from like eight goals to 38. and then this year it'll be 68 and then 98 next year or whatever, as opposed to, like, oh, Connor McDavid missed 40 games in his rookie year and then improved in his second year.

But that's, like, that's why I was saying that that means more of a comeback. Yeah, for sure. I want the player who makes the leap to star status when maybe you weren't expecting them to. Yeah, I would say in general, that's how the, that's how the NBA's works. Okay. So. That'd be good.

Who do you think would win it this year? in the NHL? Let's assume Tatea Johnson won it last year. Okay. So if it's something... Like... Giorziyev, maybe. You know who it might be, honestly?

It is Linus Olme. No, Jake DeBrusk, I mean. Jake Debrusk. Hmm. Okay. I was just looking at a Bruins roster in my... In the NBA, is it typically, like, is it like a Jake Debrusk level player, or is it like the Super...

Because the guy I was thinking of, and, And this guy isn't improved in the sense that he was super good last year too. But I could see them using this as another way to get a start-up there, which is Jason Robertson, where you go. He went from point a game, good player, to like MVP level, but we're going to give the MVP to Connor McDavid. So here's a way to get. Yeah, well, again, like Robertson maybe even would have won it over Thompson last year in that scenario.

But John Morant won it last year, it says here. I don't know who that is. He plays for the Memphis Grizzlies. He's fucking unbelievable. Pascal Seacum is a recent winner. Yana Santa Ticompo. So they're, Victor Oladipo.

So, like, they're not all, like, future MVP-level candidate guys, because, like, Brandon Ingram and Julius Randall are also mixed in. But, like, it does a pretty good job of identifying,

like, oh, yeah, this guy is, like, about to become a very good player, like, at least an all-star, if not. you know. Yep. But only one

Hall of Famer has ever actually won the award. That's not an active player. Like, obviously like, Yana Santa Dacombo is a future Hall of Famer and he won the award, right? So like that doesn't,

but like Tracy McGrady is the only guy who's not active who ended up being in the, in the Hall of Fame. Okay. That's interesting. Very cool. And you could argue that it lends itself better to basketball, right?

Because, I mean, you could be a six-man who then gets your chance in the rotation and... Well, there's also a sixth-man award in the NBA. Yeah, there's that too, but... Which wouldn't translate to hockey in any... No, I don't think... That's right. But, yeah, anyway... Because the sixth man is...

What fan base is it that has, like the... The Bruins have one for sure. There's some fan bases like, oh, we're the sixth or the seventh man or whatever. I don't know. I don't pay attention to any teams that aren't. Yeah, that's just one of those things like it feels like, well, look, it might be Minnesota Wild. Famously, their fans have a number retired for them. It's also true.

Seattle, I guess. I think it's the Predators. I'm looking at this now. I believe it is the National Predators of the 17th. That's great. Hey, if they could get an extra guy out there, maybe they'd be a better team, you know? It is. Anyway.

So yeah, let's think about this. Okay. We don't have to rename every award here, but should we rename some of them? Yes. It feels like the answer is yes. I think we should because I think, in my experience, new hockey fans kind of assume that these awards are named after like old-timey famous players. Yeah, right. That like, you know, there must have been some, the Bobby Orr of like the 1920s was some guy.

named Norris and it's no. They're almost all named after either the person who donated the trophy or some, like some member of the old boys club, like an owner, a governor, whatever gets the thing named after them.

I would scrap all of them with one exception. The Rocket Richard. Because that one, they actually did right. You know, they're not. So we'll keep the Rocket Richard Richard as is. and then let's do the rest.

The Hart Trophy for the league's MVP. I think this is either you do Gretzky for this one. He won it more than anyone, or I would probably say Gordy Howe for the Heart and then Wayne Gretzky for the Art Ross. I was going to say for the heart. Okay, let me ask you this. The Ted Lindsay, are we just keeping that to Ted Lindsay?

Yeah, yeah, let's do that as Ted Lindsay. You're right. That's the other one because that was the Pearson and then they renamed it, the Ted Lindsay. Yeah, let's keep that one. Okay. So for the heart, Gordi Howe is one I hadn't thought of, I guess. Because I was going to say Mario Lemieux for the heart because that's a classic guy of like, if he wasn't on those penguins teams, they would have been dog shit for most of his career. You know?

Yep. Whereas with Gretzky, he tended to play with a slew of all stars. that Mario didn't have a good chunk of his career where he did that as well. But that's why I was going to say Lemieux, I like your Gordy Howe idea better, though, for sure. Yeah, it does give us the weird situation where the two MVPs are named after Red Wings, but yeah, so what? That's okay. Oh, yeah, that's true too, huh? Vezina, I know, is going to be.

Okay, no, wait, I have the solution. Yep. The Gordy Howe. And it's like a statue of Gordy Howe, but he's wearing a wailish jersey. I love it. Perfect. Okay. Do it.

Right. The Vezina Trophy Award is the best goaltender in the National Hockey League. This is interesting because there's three guys. There's three guys. Hell, you know what? There's four because it's Harry Sawchuck as well. Yeah. I mean, you could definitely go back.

And part of this is. But I cannot have another fucking redwing. award. I can't do it. There is like, you know, an argument that you should go back, you know, because you could also do Jacques Plont or, you know, somebody like that. Ken Dryden or even. There's an argument that you should do it. The older the players, the better because the problem with the newer guys is like they're,

who knows what they're going to do or say at some point? You know, you don't, you name it after like Patrick Juan and he gets like red pilled and is goes down like Theo Flurry the road and you're like oh we we screwed up I think I mean so it's Wobroeder and Hasek I think would be the three and I know who you think is the best goalie

of all time does he get the award named after him my answer was for this was going to be Brodor because I think he's like the most famously good goalie of all time and I also think yeah and he would be like the most marketable isn't the right word but he would be

like front and center selling it. He's great in those enterprise commercials. Yeah, he's fantastic in those. I mean, you got, whereas... Looking good, boys. Very nice. Was a little tougher, and Hasick, no one can understand what he's saying half the time. I do find that, like, when I first went down this list, I ended up with, like, all Canadian players, and I'm like, no, no, hold on, maybe we should figure out a way to get more Europeans. And there's so having Hasick in there is, like, the greatest check player of all time. You know what? I'll say with that, I'd be fine. with either of those guys. I think both of them are good choices.

You know what? I think you're right about the Canadian thing. This is a global game. Let's go with Dominic Ashik and also mute the word Ukraine on his Twitter feed. Yeah, exactly. He's a little fired up about that these days. Yeah, maybe not have him and Ovechkin present the awards together. Yeah, that feels right. You guys could just do some light banter, right? Like just why he breaks out. The Norris Trophy for the best defender, this is the Bobby Orr.

You're just getting... We don't have to... NIS on the... What's that? We all love Nicholas Lidstrom. We all love, you know... But come on. But this is...

Come on. And this is part of the reason I like the Gordy Howe too is like, to this day, if you stopped an average American on the street and you were like, name five hockey players, there's a good chance they do Gordy Howe and Bobby Or before they name anyone.

in the league right now. Like, I'm not talking hockey fans. I'm talking average fans. Pull a guy out of the stance at Cleveland Brown's game. Yeah, Gretzky, they're going to name Gretzky, and then they might go to the old guys. But, yeah, Bobby, of course, you have to. Yeah, this is a very, very easy one.

You don't have to think too much about it at all. The next one is more interesting, the Kahn Smyth. This is the one I would go Mario on. Because I need a Mario Lemieux. award. But he's, this is the one where I would go him. I know some people have said Patrick Gua for this one. He's the only one to win it three times. He's won at three times. Yeah. If you wait 10 years, which knowing the NHL, they probably will, uh, because they move slow on this stuff. Sidney Crosby is another guy you could consider. I think, I think honestly, if you're picking

a penguin, it's got to be Mario. Yeah. Put it this way. If we get to the end of the list and there's no Mario, like, we screwed up. We fucked up. We got to go back. Yep. The Selky, boy, they're going to just give this one to Patrice Bergeron. Like, they're not even going to wait for him to retire. That's the tough thing, right?

So everything I've seen, people are saying it's either Bob Ganey or Patrice Bersh. And Bob Ganey, look, the award was created largely because of him. Right. And yet, the award is not given to Bob Ganey like. players anymore. No. So that I think it's one or the other. I would rather have it be Bergeron than than Ganey.

Yeah. But here, let me, let me just throw, let me throw a curveball third option at you. And I have a feeling I'll have some backing from you on this. What about Sergey Federov? Love it. Perfect. More representative of what the award is now, which is. For sure, yeah.

You know, a guy, like, like Bob Ganey wasn't a two-way player in the sense that he wasn't an offensive threat. He wasn't, he wasn't supposed to be. I'm sure he probably could have been if he, you know, the role was different, et cetera, et cetera. But Federov and Gilmore in the early 90s were the guys that kind of signaled that change to the two-way, two-way guy. and Federov gets us a Russian player in there, which is a nice bonus. Pretty important part of the history of the game, the nation of Russia. However, you want to talk about who's really representative? It's Patrice Berser.

Like, I cannot, the only thing is, if you're doing it right now today, you cannot name it after an active player. but wait two years and he's not going to be an active player anymore and he will probably have a sixth one by the time this season's over so it's not like nobody's going to win that many ever again it feels like

yep so I like you know as as much as I would hate to have like a really like actually modern player he just completely broke what the award is basically. Yeah, I agree. This is both like the trickiest, partly because it's, in theory, the easiest.

But, yeah, that one's a little tough if we were doing it today. Right. Okay, so the Art Ross, I think we said Gretsky already. I say Gretsky, yeah. That works for me. There's no problem there. Here's an interesting one. The Jennings, maybe this is the Martenbrodura Award.

Yeah. Here's my thing. Get rid of the Jennings. I know I said not changing awards, but I forgot about the Jennings. Get rid of it. Yeah, look. Anti-Ranto won it last year. Thomas Grice has won it.

But my point is Marty Rodour won it five times. Well, same number as Patrick Wa. My issue with this, the other thing is, like we said with the Vezina, there's three guys from the modern era. And if we do the Jennings, now we're picking two out of the three. three. Sure. Which means that you're going to have, so I would just scrap the Jennings. Yeah, we're nook in that one.

We don't need it. The Jack Adams, Scotty Bowman. Again, like don't. Now, okay, here's another proposal for you, though. John Tortorello Award. What do you think? Most loser points for, yeah, okay, yeah. I like it.

Just for the acceptance speeches. The Calder. Tim Mussolani. I love that one. That's a great call. Gets your finish player. Greatest rookie season of all time. And probably the best season of his career, an all-time great player,

best season of his career was his rookie year. Absolutely. And, you know, the other one, the only other, well, I shouldn't say the only other option because there are other good ones. And I know people have, like I think Gentile had Merrill Lemieux as an option here. If we haven't used him yet, that's a good one. one. Mike Bossy would be the other one. He advanced the idea of a Pittsburgh guy getting this one. Yeah, crazy, eh? But yeah, I would

to me, it's bossy or Salani, and I like the idea of getting a finished player in there. I like the Salani pick. I honestly didn't have a really good answer for this one, but now I do. It's team with Salani. That's perfect. And are we changing the name of the Masterton? I wouldn't. I would keep the Masterton as well. Again, another one that's named after a player. I think that's it for, I guess the lady Bing. Don't care.

Yeah. Name it after Frank Boucher. He won it seven times. I don't know who that guy is, but he won't it seven times. You know what? You could go Yari Curry for that one. That would be fine. Curry was a finished guy, though.

Can I throw one other idea at you? Yeah, for sure. I'm also going to put a player name on each of the first team All-Star. awards. Because, and we're going to say we're going to do that in a few years, that lets you get Ovechkin, Crosby, some right winger, Lidstrom, another defenseman, and then like pick another goal.

It sure is. But yeah, I would get that in there too, and that way that gives you a few more to work with. Yeah, that gives you Lidsroom and Bork. That gives you Crosby. That gives you Ovechkin. Who would the right wing be? a ginla maybe

oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that rocks and then maybe the goal maybe we do bring back to Jennings and then this this becomes the third goalie of the the three-headed like I'm not saying people would necessarily be like

oh he won the Crosby but you know it would just be a nice way to represent the more modern guys and then 10 years from now we I don't know what would you think of changes every every 10 years. Yeah, what would you think if you did like with some of the awards?

You're just like, it's a 10 year. For each decade, we pick a different player to have the honor of the trophy named after them. Yeah. And you're never going to run out of options. And I think that would really allow a guy like, I don't know, like Joe Thornton is a guy that you maybe deserves to have an award named after him. Like, you're a defining player in a lot of ways.

And people have mentioned. But also, what are you going to? Like, who are you going to bump out for Joe? Yeah, exactly. People have mentioned doing, like, either an, like, an assist award, like the equivalent of the Rocket Richard or, like, a playmaker award. So, you know, that if we're going to add them. We're getting back into, this is just too many fucking awards.

Maybe, yeah. So, again, like, yeah, we're getting rid of the King Clancy. We're getting rid of the Mark Messier leadership. Although, who would I name that after? Yeah, let's name that after somebody else. I think that would be great. Brand new fucking award. So, yeah, there you go.

Oh, GM of the year. What would your answer be for that? I mean, we've, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm okay with keeping that after Jim Gregory, but if we were going to, I mean, to me, you'd have to do Sam Pollock, but you could also do like a

Harry Sindon, Cliffletcher. I don't know. hear me out I wouldn't do Raleigh Award I mean we all know it's going to be the Lou La Merella alone

right like we get Oh no that that actually would be a great answer like legitimately like name a name a GM

who like is more famous for having a style and like where if he's your GM he's one of the undisputed like stars of the team

in a way yeah you know Yeah. That's not bad. I hadn't thought of that. Again, I wasn't really thinking of like current guys, but he's also been a GM since like I was in grade school. See, it's a good thing we didn't do this four weeks ago, or it would have been the Pierre Dorian Award, didn't it? That's right. Oops. Oops. All right, let's do some headlines from around the league here. Looks like the Bo Horvett thing. Maybe isn't working out so well in Vancouver. Who could have guessed? You know? Yeah, they've, so they gave J.T. Miller a great big extension, and now they apparently offered a big extension of Bo Horvitt, but he didn't.

Well, big in terms of years, not so big in terms of money. Did they say what the number was? So it seems like maybe there were two notable offers. One was the same as Ryan Nugent Hopkins took, 5.125. for eight years. Oh. And the other was more recent, also eight years, but still well, I think it said well under eight million. If I'm remembering, right.

So that's just never, those numbers were never going to get it done. Five, one, because here's, and I, I, when I wrote about this yesterday, this is what I said, is like, 5.1.25 is great if you're in, like, a winning situation. You're like, oh, I'm playing with like Connor McDavid and Leon Dreisidl. I will take less money because, A, those guys are taking less money than they're worth. But B, we're trying to keep the band together here. Right? And the band the Vancouver Canucks are trying to keep together is like Night Ranger.

You know what I'm talking about? Like the Oilers are fucking Metallica. Sort of like 1992. And then the Canucks are Winger. Honestly, I would just listen to you do this for like another hour. Just going around and just every band. The Oilers are like Blue Album Era Weezer. Okay.

The Canucks are like current Weezer. There it is. So. It is. But like honestly, is that not like the fucking point here? Like they're going, oh, you got to take less to stick around to Vancouver. It's like fucking for what? This team sucks.

They've made the playoffs, the real playoffs, one time since Bo Horvout was on the team. It was his rookie year. This guy's ending UFA. That was a long time ago. Yeah. Although you can understand where the Canucks are coming from because they're like every NHL player always wants to stay wherever they are. And then here you have the first guy who's like, maybe not. But if I'm the Canucks, again, I'm going like, they were like, oh, we couldn't play.

possibly lose J.T. Miller, we got to pay him fucking the absolute peak value contract that he will ever, that he could have ever gotten in the NHL. This guy's coming off a 99 point season where almost a third of those points were secondary assists. And they're like, we got to extend this guy till he's 38 years old. Yeah, rather than waiting a year and just seeing how it plays out. Not only seeing how it plays out, but just like, again, this team's

sucks. Right? So the idea that you're like, oh, we got to keep this fucking group together. For what fucking, like, look, some of these guys, they can't, they can't, like, get rid of them, right? Like, you're not moving Connor Garland. You're not moving Oliver Ekman Larson. You're not moving Tyler Myers, who I believe his contracts up after next season, right? And you do actually want to keep Thatcher Demco.

You do want to keep Quinn Hughes. You do want to keep Elias Petters. in. But suddenly that's like eight guys you either don't want to or can't move. And it's like, and right, you made the playoffs once in the last eight years or whatever. So I don't know, I don't know what you think the fix here is. In a weird way, like even though this is, like it looks like things are falling apart in Vancouver. this specific story, you could argue, is playing out pretty well for the team just because

if they lock them up, then they're keeping the band together and the band sucks. But if they trade them, they're throwing in the towel and white flag and whatever other metaphor. And obviously, if they let them walk away for nothing, that's the worst case scenario. By having it kind of publicly fall apart like this, now it's like, okay, well, we tried. I guess now we have to trade him for future assets, which is probably what they should do. It was weird that he put the statement out, eh, through the team.

Well, it got from what I understand. And I went on a Canucks podcast over the weekend. So like I guess my point is I've seen how much of a fever pitch it's reached in the last little while, like the last week, 10 days, whatever. it's not it's it's it's not good there because again like half the media is going why aren't they just fucking trading this guy and the other half's going what's the latest offer we need to know you know and like it or not in Vancouver the way the media acts about this team is the conversation in I would say in more than any market there is. Like even a market like Toronto, the stuff that goes on on the ice

is like the number one thing people talk about. And then in Vancouver, the stuff the media talks about is the number one thing people talk about because you can't talk about what's going on on the ice because you'll just like hang yourself if you're a Canucks fan. You know?

So like the discourse is the discourse, which is insane, but it's true. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So where do you think he might go? Like, who's going to make this midseason deal?

All these teams that are like in on Patrick Kane should be in on Bo Horvett. He's better than Patrick Kane at this point in his career. Now, maybe you would say, well, if you put Patrick Kane on an actual good team, good things will happen. Yeah, he wasn't great this year. No, he has not. And that's true of literally everybody on that team. It's really things are grim.

Like I said, I think they have one win, one regulation win maybe in their last like 15 games or something like that. It's really fucking bad. And for a team that started out the year like, oh, you know, they might actually prove some people wrong here, blah, blah, blah. No, I don't think so. Yeah, so remember, they had a three game winning streak at the end of October. Since then they are 314 and 4 Chicago. Yikes. Um, but anyway, uh, I, I, you know, like if he ends up on the islanders or the hurricanes or, or the rangers or whatever, I won't be surprised by that.

He, you know, I think, I think the arms race will be in the Eastern Conference. I think the Canucks would be reticent to trade a guy in the conference and certainly in that division. Like, it's just so dumb, but you're right. They probably would be. I mean, they don't, they, they don't want to acknowledge that they need to rebuild. right? So, uh, they're, they're going to be like, oh,

we couldn't possibly, uh, we couldn't possibly like, uh, move this guy to the, to the kings or whatever. So, yeah,

I, I'm really curious. Like, I, I think, again, this was like inevitable. And now that we're finally getting to

what that means for them, like, I'm really curious because they're like, we want a big return or we might not trade him. And it's like, you're not going to get a big return for a guy that you've consistently devalued in this, in this, uh, whatever, like, although the cap environment and the dude is scoring at like a 50 goal pace. So for sure. But like they're going, oh, look, the, again, the discourse around the team yesterday was, hey, should they move J.T. Miller to center to.

to and it's because like he he's maybe he's like not getting the job done on the wing and it's like well the problem with him not getting the job done is he's turning the puck over constantly because he's trying to like force everything and if you move a guy to the middle he's only handling the puck more only turning it over more as a consequence like the idea that like you're trying to find someone to replace bow horv like you want to replace bo horvat when uh when you trade him that's one thing but if you're trying to replace him when he's on the roster, you have a different fucking problem. Anyway.

Yep. That's, you know what you got to trade him to is some team that has like an old school GM that looks at a 27 year old and goes, he's just entering his prime. That, yeah. He's going to have a career high in goals. He's just entering his prime. Let's get him now and lock him up for. And if you're the Canucks, like.

So the Islanders. Sure. But my point, I guess my thing is like, if you're the Canucks. and you're going, oh, we need a big return. I don't know how you, like, how you define what a big return is for a player like this. Like, you're not getting a first round pick in this year's draft, probably. It would be shocking if you did. Yeah.

I think. I think most of the first round picks that get traded this year will be for next year's because everybody's just going to be like, have you seen this year's draft? Like, we're going to get a good player at 17 or what. whatever. Yep. So. Um, but like, do you, do you get a prospect? If you're Vancouver, do you take bad money back? Like, you kind of have to given the cap situation, right? So, yeah, I think if it's one year of bad money, I think you're happy to do that. If it's, uh, if it's, uh, if Jim Benning's, like, what if it's nine years of bad money? That sounds great for me. Um, but yeah, no, I, I really,

I don't know what, what the Canucks situation is because as much as like they would have room to re-sign Horvatt next year, in theory? The real problem is Pedersen is a is an RFA with like a 10.5 million dollar qualifying offer for the following season, not next season, the one after. And so if you give Bo Horvett that money, suddenly it's like, well, what are we going to have like nine guys making $8 million? It's not going to apply. Do you give any consideration if you're the Canucks to telling Bo Horvite, you know what?

sit tight, wait a second, and then try to trade J.T. Miller, who does not have any trade protection until his extension kicks in on July 1st, at which case he's completely protected, I believe. I believe that is true, but I mean, look, if I'm the Canucks, I'm trying to move literally everybody, including, and people are going to be pissed that I'm saying this, Patterson, Hughes, Demko. It didn't work. and like I looked I was looking at their cat friendly writing this the story yesterday Thatcher Demko is 27 years old by the so like if you're if you're the Canucks and you're like okay

it's going to take three or four years like if we if we trade Bo Horvatt and we just kind of accept that we're going to be bad and we try to get some money off the books and blah blah blah how much of your how much of all those three guys primes are you going to wait Demko, you could even argue, isn't in his prime anymore. For goalies, at least. He's 27 years old, man.

A lot of goalies, like, they've only been in the league two years at 27. But Demko also, I mean, the injury issue, you know? He's been bad this year. And can't stay healthy. Like, I'd be worried about it Demko-wise, right? But, like, how much of the primes are you going to,

I understand you've got to have guys. that people pay to see and Patterson is certainly fucking one of them. But you also, and I say this all the time, like, nobody would be, would be untouchable to me if I was a GM. And I had Connor Bedard. What would you give me for Connor Bedard, I'd say? And if, and most of the time I would say, well, I'm not making that trade. That's stupid.

But if you offered me an insane, like your next 10 first round picks, your 10 best prospects, whatever, I'd have to think about it. And it's the same thing with Patterson. I'd at least think about fucking moving on from him. As much as I think he's awesome and he's having an unbelievable year, he's one of my favorite players in the league, Elias Patterson. But if you're going to be like,

okay, we're going to give this guy $12 million while we're rebuilding or I could trade him for, you know, three first round pay, whatever the package is, I'd at least think about it. You got to. You got to think about it. Yeah. The thing with Miller that's,

interesting is like I did my cap court column last week and I had Miller on there and I declared it a bad contract and whatever I do that I then kind of cringe and sit back and wait for fans to yell at me and like Canuck fans were like yep sure I think Canucks fans are they're fed up they're they're just like everybody they're not in a good place right now but they they were you know nobody was really defending that and it's you know I think if you can move the guy now, from a hockey perspective, you do it. But the thing is, what does that then do to, you know, what's the, one of the meta considerations around signing a guy to a big extension, giving him a no move, and then trading him right

before it kicks in. I mean, Montreal did it to P.K. Suban, and nobody seemed to really care all that much after a few weeks, but I don't know. Yeah, I guess, I, part of that is, like, I think the way that trade was viewed in particular. If you do it as like a cap dump and a and like a way to like start a rebuild, I think maybe that's one thing.

But Montreal's argument was, well, we got Shay Weber back. Especially if you send him to like some, imagine they send him to like some crappy, like sent him to Winnipeg or somewhere like this. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry, Winnipeg people. But imagine that like, you know,

they trade him to Ottawa and he's just like, I don't want to be there. It's like, sorry, you're locked in for nine years now, eight years. Yeah, tough shit, brother. That's rough. Yeah, it's for sure. Again, like, I say this with Vancouver a lot. There's no good answer here for them.

Like, you lose Bo Horvette for a pick, a prospect and like a young roster player, that's not great for you. This is a guy who's your captain. This is a guy who, like you said, is scoring it like a, a 45 goal pace or whatever the number is right now. He slowed down recently, but yeah, you know, he's got a lot of goals this year. He's good. He's good at putting the puck in the net. You can't say he's not.

But, yeah, like, if you lose them for nothing, that obviously sucks. Although, you know, I guess NHL team should be a little more willing to do that than they are. Every other team in every other sport is. Like the NHL is the only sport where it's like you absolutely cannot ever, ever, ever just have someone's contract expire and have them leave. Right. And like I get it because if you, again, if it's like a J.T. Miller situation where you could have traded him this year and then you were like, no, we have to extend him. Because we don't know what will happen. Like that's where teams fuck up with that.

But anyway, yeah, there's no good answer for the Canucks. for the, I think, ninth year running. So there you go. We've depressed Canuck fans and Winnipeg fans caught astray in the process. So we're really... Not for me. I didn't say it. Yeah, that's right.

Don't for once. Don't yell at Ryan after this episode. Yeah. Hey, I still think Connor Hellebuck should be the MVP of the league this year. Yep. Don't look up how he did last night. I don't know if he was the goalie last night, but they gave up a bunch of goals. Anyway, this happened.

again, like the night after we recorded the podcast last week, but I feel like we got to talk about it. Tage Thompson scored five goals in a single game. He's so cool. He's so cool. And again, this is a guy that we were both like, I mean, how good is that contract, that contract extension really?

I shouldn't say we all hated it in the summer, but a lot of us when they signed it, we're like, I thought it was a big risk for them. Yeah, because he was coming off a shooting percentage bender, And you had, again, like the other guys, you had a year to see how much of that was going to stick. And then instead they jumped out and worked out. Because, I mean, if he signed that same contract today, but he's like at least a $9 million dollar player. Yeah, for sure.

But again, like they, this is a player with some obvious deficiencies, I think you would say, not particularly. good defensively, whatever. But Don Granato, to his credit, like I'm saying this is a positive for Granato. Was like, if we just feed this kid the puck on the power play, he's going to score at a fucking 70 goal pace or whatever. And it's working, right? He gave him a bunch more power play time and he said,

shoot the puck more. That's the thing. They didn't just look at like a six foot seven guy and say, plop him in front of the net and just have him hack away at rebound. Like this guy's scoring Like yeah He's insanely skilled goals He his uh his like shots per game has increased almost like 50%

It went from 3.2 to 4.7 That's crazy and it really is like And it's it's a Don Grinado story Because 100% And I was I was surprised I wrote about Thompson this week and like the number of Sabres fans who are like this, this is like Ralph Kruger

couldn't get anything out of Tage Thompson and he hated Jeff Skinner and Don Granato came in and he's turned Tage Thompson into a superstar and he's got Jeff Skinner at least you know, not playing like a $9 million guy but at least playing like a top six guy

again which is I mean to me that that makes the Don Granato era worth it even though the team stinks and that's the other thing The team is awful. You know there's that

that famous baseball tweet about the Anaheim Angels or someone's like, every time I see the Angels, it's Mike Trout has three home runs. And the pitcher has done something that hasn't been done since Babe Ruth as the Angels lose 8 to 3 to the Detroit Tigers.

It's like that with Buffalo. Your timeline is lit up with like Tage Thompson stuff. And, you know, this team is so fun. And then you look at the record, and you're like, oh, they've lost three or four and they're just absolutely. Well, they're actually, they're four, two, and one in the last seven games here now that I look at it. Because I was like, oh, I guess they did beat, but they beat the Kings, the Blue Jackets, the Sharks, and the Red Wings for those.

They are 13, 14, and 2. So they're under, they're under NHL 500. Yep. They're 22nd overall in the league. But did you know this? They're first in the league and goals scored. I did know that, yeah. I had somebody, like, tweet me in there, like, without looking it up, who do you think leads the league in goals?

and I was like, and, you know, so I immediately looked it up, which is what everyone does when you tell them not to look something up. And I was, I would not have picked that. That is, uh, I did know that, yeah. That is pretty amazing. Because yesterday, last night when, when the ducks got killed again, um, God, the ducks are terrible. Someone pointed out that the ducks are 32nd in goals four and 30 second in goals against.

They're so bad. It's unbelievable. It is very, like, I was watching my favorite team win a game 7-0-0, and I was like, please stop scarring. This is not. And by the way, there was an extremely funny moment in the game last night where they were talking about Dallas Akins used to be a coach in the Leaf System. And they talked about a story where there's a famous photo of Wendell Clark

with his gloves off, like, post-fight, skating away from like a slumped-over player. And it turns out that player is Dallas Akins. I didn't even know that. And I've seen the photo a million times. But I guess Dallas Aikins had complained. I'm sure it was tongue-in-cheek. I don't think he was really being thin-skinned about it. But I guess when he was with the Leafs, they had that picture up and he got them to take it down.

Because he was like, no, that makes me look like I just got pummeled in the fight. And like, I held my own. Like, that fight was a draw. And so they were talking about this and how the Leafs had put the picture back up and everything. But meanwhile, they show the clip of the fight. He just gets destroyed. Like he's flat on his back within half a second And Wendell's just like on top of him

Just like hammering him Which was that was every Wendell Clark fight So there's no shame in that But you're just like I love the like Did anybody look at the clip before they Dallas was like you know I fought him to a draw Oh yeah it's like the Brooklyn brawler

Getting in token offense against Yeah he didn't even get that Like thrown through a fucking brick wall He literally was flat on his back Less than one second into the fight It was I put it this way. I wish Dallas Aikins was as good at catching Tim Mussolani's glove as he was at catching

Wendell-Clark's fists because... Well, you know, let me turn this around, though. In Dallas-Akins' defense, sounds like he maybe just doesn't remember. Yeah. I think if his memory was shaky of that moment, then, yeah, it would be understandable. But, yeah, somebody said that, like, basically Aikins did as well in that fight as his team did in the game last night, and that's about right. I thought that was very funny.

But yeah, it rocks to... Now, this is the other thing I want to say about... about Tage Thompson scoring five goals. And I'm actually pissed at Don Granato. Guy has a hat trick in the first period, or was it being four goals? See, I wasn't watching this game because I was at a college game this night. But like, so I'm going to look it up real quick. Yeah, so he has four goals in the first period.

I'm sorry, you got to put that guy, you got to double shift that guy. I want this fucking guy getting to nine goals by the end of the minute. Are you shitting me? Me and Mendez were trying to figure this out. I don't think we did, but we thought he might have been certainly the first player in a very, very long time. Maybe the first player ever to have five goals, like with time left in the second period. Yeah. And the NHL record is seven, but that's like old-timey Joe Malone.

Like, to me, the record is six. Yeah. Right? Like that you've got to, yeah. And I know it was seven to two. I don't give a shit. It's a Columbus. Yes, exactly.

Like if you're Columbus, how do you not go? Like even if you're like, oh, this is so fucking embarrassing. How do you not go? I totally understand why the coach was trying to get a guy who seven goals and to get to an NHL record. It makes similar to the Leonses thing, right? Like, you know, like what they're doing with Ovechkin? Like, yeah, get them out there, especially when it's.

Yeah. Haven't made the playoffs in 11 years. Like the most beaten down miserable broken fan base. Give him a guy scoring seven goals. Absolutely. Double shift them on power plays. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. It's, this is the problem with hockey brain, right? We have to be respectful of this team. We put nine goals up against.

Get lost. That's loser shit to me. All right. I wanted to talk very quickly about the big brawl at the Bruins Coyotes game this weekend. Yeah. I did not know what you were referring to. So I typed Coyote's Bruins into YouTube to see this on ice fight. No, that's not what it was.

No, this was like 15 people in the crowd getting into a fight that basically takes up an entire section of this 5,000 person arena. It was nest. great thing. Because you know, you go to a game and sometimes there's a fight in the upper deck and it's like two guys. And you're like, oh, I guess I can kind of see him if I like put my hand over my eyes and squint a little bit. I guess I can see those guys shoving each other or whatever. This was like they were breaking out like bricks and broken bottles and stuff like that. Someone got part of their finger bitten off.

Yeah. Did you see this? I did. I saw that only because of. the I Rink You Should Leave Tweets about it. That's where I get most of my hockey. So I guess you didn't see the video someone took

of them holding the bit off part of the finger. Oh no. No, no. I don't want to You don't want to see that. No, see, I normally stay away from this stuff because I hate this stuff. I hate like you know, oh look at here's a drunk dude getting his ass kicked

in a Taco Bell and you're like, no, no thank you. But this was this was something else, even by NHL standards. And you said like 15 people involved and then like the 16th being like the cop who was just standing there. He's just kind of meandered over.

Just watching. Just like wow, that guy's getting wailed on. Somebody should help him. Now like this was, you ever see those like when they take a still, like someone takes a photo of like some big event and someone will like post the picture and go, oh, this is like a medieval painting.

Like there's so much going on. This was that. video form where it's like, I didn't even see the guy one punch the woman in the Rob Grankowski jersey, but it happened. So because someone, because like I didn't see the cop at first. I just saw the people spill over and someone was like, no, watch the cop at the bottom of the screen and you watch the cop at the bottom of the screen and you were like, it makes it a completely different video.

The guy punching. So the reason everybody like falls down three rows is that some guy like accidentally, I think maybe accidentally punches a woman. and then like four people jump on it. Yeah. It's crazy. This is, I mean, like, you know, we've seen a lot of big fights in the stands or whatever. This was maybe the craziest in recent memory.

I don't remember one, at least at the NHL level. Good old. Maybe that whole college atmosphere at the ball at arena wasn't everything it was cracked up to be. By the way, how shocked were you when you heard like crazy? fight in the stands of Bruins game and then found out it was a road game. Yeah, right. That's stunning right there. Yeah.

Yeah, really crazy. I can't believe. Like, again, someone got part of their finger bitten off. Fucking wild. Anyway. One last bit of news here, and then we'll call it for the day. Yarmir Yager reset his Hall of Fame clock again. You know what?

I didn't think of it that. I didn't think of it that way. You're right. This guy's never getting in. Nope. No, it's going to have to be posthumous, but only because he accidentally played a professional game at age 78 or whatever. So for those who don't know,

he still owns the club Cladno. And they, like a bunch of guys on the team got the flu and they were just short bodies. And Yager was like, I guess I'll go out there and dress. And I think he had like an assist or a goal or something like that. Hold on. I'll look it up.

But yeah, he like, he made an impact at age 50. Of course he did. Yeah, two assists for Cladno in the, I think the check, top division even. And again, he'll be 51 in February. He's so cool. Damn. the best. Yep.

Oh, man. That's, yeah. But yeah, the fact that this one game made it like, no, it's another three years now. That's it. Yeah. I wonder if they, yeah, at some point, just wave it and put them in. I know they don't formally waive the three-year waiting period like they used to. For certain players.

But, uh... But this guy is, uh, Yarmir Yager, like a top 10 player of all time problem. I think he's going to make it. I think when, when, When time comes, I think he gets in. Unless one of the 18 old dudes on the committee doesn't like him for summary because he didn't cut his hair in 1991. That's right. But yeah, if you go to his elite prospect, this is one of the things I love about elite prospects as a guy who works there.

But even before this was like if you go to a guy's page, it's just like at the top of the page lists every award and major trophy he's won. and Yager's is so long that it goes on to a second line. Now, granted, that's like, you know, he was the best forward at the world championship once. And the MVP at the world championship. And you know what? And by the way, that's our right winger for the All-Star Awards. Oh, yeah, sure, of course. There it is.

We got to throw them in there because it was a couple weeks ago we were talking about best European player ever and we didn't mention yager. Yeah, well, I was trying to avoid active players. So. Yeah, that's right. We need guys who are active or will retire in the next decade. Yeah, that ain't Yager, baby. The greatest.

Oh, he's so fucking cool. Anyway, Sean, we're done. Are we done? Hold on. Do we not have to do some sort of survivor, uh, preview, reaction, whatever? Because as people know, I'm a big survivor fan, you have just got into it this year. Tonight is the final episode. Yeah.

So we won't do a ton of it, but... I forgot about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me two... In fact, I'll tell you what. Let's do our plugs, and then anyone who doesn't watch Survivor can tag out. So my plug is, check me out at the Athletic, be on the Athletic Hockey Show with Ian Mendes this week. I've got my five very dumb lessons that dumb GMs will learn from Tage Thompson.

is my current post. And I'm bringing back the grab bag this week, which I think I haven't done in like six months. The Friday grab bag, but it may not actually be on Friday. We'll see. But I'm going to make fun of Gary Bettman. And I'm going to watch a YouTube clip of Rod Brindamore

working out without a shirt on. So we'll see what happens from that. Yeah. And then for me, E.P.Rinkside.com. Use the code I love EP. You get three months tacked on to the end of your annual subscription. You're going to buy a one-year deal, but then you get three extra months for free.

And the Puck Soup Patreon, Patreon. Patreon.com slash Puck Soup. All the bonus episodes and writing from Greg and all that kind of stuff. I didn't remember to do the bit there. So that's my bad. But yeah, the plugs never change. Where you want from me? Yeah.

So Survivor. talk. Here we go. Survivor. So, two things. Preview, the finale tonight, down to the Final 5, let me know who you think is winning. And we also have to react to last week's episode, which was

the Jesse absolutely stuffing a knife into the back of his bromance buddy, Cody. Now, I will say Jesse, um,

he's been doing this quite a bit recently. He did it to Noel a few weeks ago. And yeah, so I think people are going to turn on him for that. I think Jesse's in a fair bit of trouble here. I like Owen. I've been a fan of Owens since day one. I know he's still hanging around.

But you know who my dark horse is and all this? Is Gabler? Right. Okay. So there's my answer. I think I would go Owen is maybe my favorite right now and Gabor is my

my dark horse See I think to me Jesse has this wrapped up if he can make fire Because they're down to the final five Right And part of part of what is What I think makes him so unbeatable

Is he has He still has an immunity idol He does But it's one that nobody else knows that he has, and nobody has known the entire time. They assumed it was out of the game because somebody got voted out with an idol, but unknown to everyone, that idol

had been given to Jesse secretly. So he's had it in his pocket the whole time. So what I think, and I actually kind of hope happens tonight, is everybody realizes, oh my gosh, Jesse just made one of the great players of all time, getting rid of Cody. And it really was.

I know you haven't watched every season, so I'll put it in college. Like last week's episode with Jesse stabbing his friend in the back was one of the all-time great betrayals and I say that in the in the best way if people don't watch and you're still listening this for some reason like he he basically you know his best friend his ally and everything he backstabbed him using his own immunity idol

which was just so dirty and but explained it well there was this great clip where Jesse is like in tears and he's like you know he's doing like the Kylo Ren like I know what I have do, but I don't know if I'll have the strength to do it, speech. And he's basically saying, like, everybody on this show is talking about what a great experience it is and what a great, you know, all of this. But he's like, I have one chance to make a million dollars and change my family's life. I have to do anything it takes to do that. But he realized how, how horrible

it would be to backstab his friend like that. But he did it. And it was awesome. Now I think everyone's going to be like, we got to get rid of this guy. He's clearly going to win if he gets in front of the jury because even though he's played a nasty game, that tends to. You got to respect it. Let's all vote for him. It's going to be four against one and he's going to pull out an idol and nobody even knows about and get rid of somebody that way.

The jury is going to love the guy. The only way to me that he doesn't win is if he can't, when you get to the final four, there's this firemaking thing. And if he's not going to make it fire, they can get him out that way. Otherwise, I think he romps to a win. And it will be well-deserved because, again, like, you and I both had, like, somebody on Twitter tweeted us that night. Like, you need to do, like, an emergency show about what just happened on Survivor.

We were both like, we did watch it, don't spoil it. So I went in with high expectations, and it was even better than I thought it was going to be. Yeah, it was truly, like, wow, unbelievable. But again, like, I've seen. this guy be a snake for half this season at this point. So, like, as much as it was like a really impressive move for me to like do it, I was not surprised that he would stoop to that level. But this has been a problem. As such as putting such a like value judgment on it. Yeah. Well, he's playing the game, right? And this is, no, that's what I mean.

on Survivor for, for years now where it's like the people playing it realized that yes, you're trying to play a game to win a million dollars, but also there's this whole of layer to it of you're on TV and you can become a professional celebrity as professional reality person after this and everyone's you know they're always talking about the experience and all the lessons I've learned about myself and the TV show eats that up they love you know it's everybody's got some crisis that they've overcome now and it's all about like making your parents proud and all this stuff and it was so refreshing to have a dude just be like no I'm here for the money and I'm not going to throw a million dollars away that will change the life of my whole.

Like, he's not a wealthy guy. You know, he does have a good story because he was a fucking gang member who got out and got like a PhD and like political science or something. So it's not like he's like getting rich off his PhD or whatever. Exactly. So and he's basically like I'm not, because you're always like, dude, it's a million dollars. Why are you throwing it away because of some friend you made literally three weeks ago?

Right. Yeah. You know, but it's... It was great. It was fair. I'm, I'm 100% all in rooting for him. I'm going to be super bummed out if he, if he doesn't win. And I think if he gets to the final three, unless he, some, we have seen people get to the final and they should win, but they just implode in front of the jury and they, like, say all sorts of stupid stuff.

Yeah. But I don't think he'd do that. Do you give a chance to either of the women that are still standing? I think, they seem like... I think Carla, I think Carla. I think Carla. is probably my number two. I think she's the only one

who could like on her. But the problem is she's been like kind of the mastermind except she got played so badly by him last time. Because he also, in making this brilliant move, he got her to play her idol, which she didn't even need to do, but he tricked her into playing it so she doesn't have it anymore.

I think she's the one that he's going to get rid of when it's four against one. I think she'll be the one and he'll send her home. and Cassidy, I don't think, has a great chance. Yeah, I think with Carla, I'd be very surprised if she, like, she just hasn't really been good at any of the challenges or, like, the survival stuff that we've seen in my memory. She did win the one, like, where they drown you, where they, like, waterboard you. She and Owen split that one. Right, split that one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, that's the only, like, I'm saying, like, you know, with the fire making thing, like, am I super convinced Carla can make by I'm not you know so yeah yeah anyway um yeah so that that's that's some survivor talk uh but the reason that I didn't watch uh last week when the guy said we need the emergency podcast and uh the reason I won't be watching live this week is I watch AEW on Wednesday nights there you go and uh this is don't spoil Ryan please don't nobody and I I actually might not be watching it live tonight I don't know so please don't Don't, like, tweet us at 11 o'clock or 10 o'clock.

I'm going to watch it after wrestling. So don't, don't, I might not even watch it until tomorrow. So please don't tweet me with, like, you know, hey, you were right or, hey, team Jesse. And don't even do it in, like, a way that you think is clever where, don't just tweet me like eyes or something. Yeah, just, just don't. We're just going to be mad if that happens. Exactly. Anyway, yeah, that's it.

Thanks so much, everybody. have a good one and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.