Puck Soup - Business Is Picking Up

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

August is almost over and more hockey stuff is finally happening. Ryan and Sean talk new transactions, captains, and more.   Sponsored by Factor (factormeals.com/puck50), Athletic Greens (athleticgeens.com/puck), Betterhelp (betterhelp.com/puck) and Bespoke Post (boxofawesome.com promo code puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, eats and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Bork too. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McHenough from The Athletic. And I'll say this, right off the bat here.

It's like they knew. the people in the hockey world knew that we had to record a podcast today. And they said, we need to get these guys some content. We need to make this happen. Need to drop some of the suit boys. And, well, they did it. They came together. They supported us.

They lifted us up when we needed it most. And Brandon Hagel, eight years, 6.5 million per. Very exciting. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, when you're like, now, do I think that guy's a first or second liner in Tampa and getting $6.5 million? That's what it's all about on this podcast, sitting here thinking, do I know how Brandon Hagel did last year? And he was really good.

I do know, and the answer is he was good. What was your initial reaction to this beautiful contract? My initial reaction was a degree of surprise, but maybe it shouldn't be surprised. Just the fact that it's an eight-year deal again, that this lightning team has very clearly just abandoned any sense of really long-term thinking and is just saying we have a championship caliber team. team, we will keep them together at whatever we need to do to fit it under the cap and we will worry about three or five years from now then. And I'm not necessarily sure that's wrong when you've got I agree. Yeah. But, you know, we often talk about like when you go to cap friendly and you see the red arrow on the page that says that there is a content.

track that extends past six years. They don't have room for it. There are currently six of those arrows on the lightning page. Yeah. And that does not include Andre Vasilevsky, and it doesn't include Nikita Kuturov, who are both on significantly long-term deals as well. Yeah, I think the other thing to note there is that this comes with Stephen Samkos' age, he's going to be 34 in February

UFA at the end of this season this coming season So it's interesting From that point of view But to your point about the The Red Arrows You don't think it's actually pretty sick That three of them are for Nick Paul

Yeah Brandon Hagle and Eric Churnack, you don't think that rocks? What are we doing? Even Anthony Sorrelli is kind of, but yeah, Nick Paul is the one that really jumps out. And maybe that sort of set my expectations where I'm like, man, these guys are just going overboard on the eight-year deals. Yeah. Brandon Hagle was good last year. I remember being surprised when the least played the lightning in the playoffs, seeing what his numbers were.

And then not really noticing him all that much in the playoffs, to be honest. But, you know, he was a 30 goal score last year. Yep. Pretty good. Yeah. And obviously that was, I mean, Chicago just basically barely wanted the guy, right? So that's a bit out of step, the production with how they apparently viewed him. Yeah.

But with that having been said. you know, like Tampa is a team that can put him in a position to score 30 goals pretty consistently. They have a number of very good offensive players. And he can, I guess the question is whether you think last season was a bit of a fluke or not. Because what is he? 22, 23, 24, something like that. He's going to turn 25 in a few years. days.

So not old for the, in the context of these eight-year deals that we sometimes see that are. Right. And so I think, I think what they're saying is the bet is, you know, that maybe he's not a 30-goal guy, but two, three years from now, six and a half million dollars isn't going to be 30-gold guy money. you know and there's a lot of we'll cross that bridge when we come to it style thinking around this contract and understandably so

just like you said they got to they get to keep the band together for as long as humanly possible and so you know I guess my point is I don't love the contract but I can't I like the player and I can't really begrudge Tampa doing it, if that makes sense.

You know? Yep. It's one of those deals where fair or unfair, if it was signed by a different team, maybe under different circumstances, but same player, we'd probably criticize it. Well, I think the circumstances. You go, like, if some team was signing this guy to be their first line winner and saying, like, where this guy's, we're going to build around him. You might wonder.

But Tampa both because of, you know, their reputation, this is a smart team. And I think more importantly, where they're at in their championship window, it makes sense. And don't forget, let's not forget, they gave up a ton to get him. They gave up two first round picks to get him from Chicago, not last year, but the year before at the deadline. And a lot of us at the time were going, what the, what are they doing? There were fans out there going, who is Brendan Hagle? And why are they giving up two first round picks for this guy? Sure.

And last year, it seemed to work. Like, it didn't work great the year that he came over. Like, he didn't, he wasn't all that productive for them after they got him. But then last year he was better. You can understand it. there's risk, but again, this is a team that's that's trying to win a cup in the next, I would almost say two or three years. 100%.

And then from there, yeah, it might get ugly, but cross-epridge. But to your point about like if this was a team in a different situation, you know, we'd maybe view the contract differently, they don't, I'm just, I'm just thinking like they don't need him to be. be a first-line winger for them. They got guys that can do that, you know? And so if you have a $6.5 million second-line winger, that sounds like a lot, but because of who is in front of him in the lineup, you're like, oh, well, who cares then, you know?

And, you know, like you said, they're viewed as a smart team, but like smart teams give out bad contracts all the time, you know? And also, like, we've seen it with Tampa where it's like, they gave that guy that contract. Like, it's not, it's not impossible that they could, that they could carry a bad, even if it does turn out to be a bad contract, is my point. Like, they could carry it and still be very good.

Sure. It's just the thing with him is when they made that trade. They give up the two first round picks. And a lot of us are scratching our heads. Excuse me. A lot of us are scratching our heads over that trade. One of the things that was pointed out was this guy only makes $1.5 million. Dirt cheap.

Absolutely. And it was kind of the Barclay-Gudrow Blake Coleman playbook again, where you give up more to get a useful player who comes in very cheap, fits into your cap. you're paying value in terms of the trade in order for the value in terms of the contract. And he's still under that contract this year. This is an extension that kicks in next year. Which does lead you to kind of go, well, should they maybe wait it a little bit, seeing how he started the year.

But I guess they'd seen it off. So he's great value. He's one of those players where he's at 1.5 million, he's great value. Man, he put him in the top six every team. Holy shit. He would love to have that guy. But he's got one more year being that guy. And now then he's getting good money for a long time.

Yep. Good for him. But as you say, it all... Nice job cashing in on an opportunity. Absolutely. But as you say, it all really boils down to the lightning's chance to compete is the next two, three seasons. Maybe, maybe.

I would say at the outside two, three seasons. I think it's probably more like one or two. To be like legitimately, they're a top five cup contender team. And I think part of this is we kind of don't give a shit what happens two, three years from now. You know, Kucherov is going to be Stamcoast's age, basically. And I think we all,

As much as we all probably like Stephen Stamco's, I think we all see what the, what the situation with him is, right? Like, he's not going to, he's not going to be the Stephen Stamcoast that we think, like, you know, lock Hall of Fame or Stephen Stamco's. Yeah. I'm really curious to see where that goes, because it does kind of look like they,

some of these contracts are giving away a chunk of Stephen Stamcoast's money. Yeah, totally. And we saw, like, when he was 26, he had a chance to go free agency, could have been the biggest UFA, one of them in league history. He chose not to. He chose to take a more reasonable deal, stay in Tampa, and absolutely turned out to be the right decision.

Yes. Is he going to bolt? Is he going to suddenly turn to the team and go, you know what, I need $10 million or else I'm gone? Is he a guy that maybe is going to go to the team and say, give me $2 million? I don't care. I've made my money.

I want to stick around and win. Or is it going to be somewhere in between? I don't know. I would think it's. I would think it's in between. They don't have a lot of room. They don't have a lot of money coming out of the books now, other than him. No, they don't.

Barely any. But, no, I mean, like, let's put it this way. He, I don't think he'll even be eligible for, like, a 35 plus contract where you can put in a bunch of performance bonuses and stuff like that. So I'm really curious what he signs for for next season. I think they find a way to make it work, and maybe that means. so long Nick Paul or whatever, you know, God, Nick Paul's 28 years old. Holy shit. But it's, again, this is all like we'll cross that bridge when we come to its stuff.

And for them, it has been for like two or three years. Yep. Yeah, it's just, I mean, with Stamcoast, the bridge is here. Like, they could have signed him to an extension. Yeah. Oh, you know, I guess the other thing to note here, Victor Headman, he's up after not this coming season, but the next one. Right.

And there's another guy where it's like, oh, is he like the Victor Headman anymore? Not really, you know? He's really good, but he's not like Victor Headman if you catch my drift. So look, this is what happens when teams get old. You got to start making these weird decisions and try to keep the cost down as best you can. And you know what? I'd rather be an old team with a couple of cups making these decisions

than an old team that never got there. Yep. And we don't even have to get into whether those cups were real. Well, they won more than one cup. Yeah. I think the number's like 1.4 or something we figured out. I figured out, yeah. That worked.

That's the most anybody got. I keep saying that. Oh, you can say you're mad that I'm saying it's a fake cup, but Tampa won more than anybody ever. So just putting that out there. Let's stay in the Atlantic Division for a minute. And let's talk about the Sabres trade Ilya Lubushkin for, to Anaheim for basically nothing. I think it was like a conditional fourth round pick or something like that.

Right. Now, I don't know if you saw all the, the local reaction to this trade? No. It was basically a bunch of people going, I'm going to do the thinking emoji face. What does this mean? Because, like, you know, is he a great defenseman?

No, of course. He was like the sixth or seventh best defenseman on the Buffalo Sabres last year. How good can he be, right? But they have currently like eight guys on, on their defense right now that can play in the NHL on some level. Now, you know, you might say Jacob Bryson and Riley Silman aren't like NHL. Okay, yeah, but they like they've played in the NHL. They know how to do it.

Maybe not well, but so before that trade, there were nine is the point. And so some of this could just be, look, we needed to get rid of a body. This was it. But this trade leaves the sabres with like, $8.8 million in cap space. Just something to think about, you know? Okay.

That is now, are there any names being floated? Uh, not, no names in particular that I've seen. Because it's kind of late in the season to have a bunch of money in your pocket to go shopping. Yes, and I would say that, uh,

basically, anybody who's left that you would want to sign as a as a UFA, not really going to be eating up too much of that money. The only, the only possibility there is Patrick Kane and we don't know when he's going to sign. You know? So the thing that my mind immediately went to was, who's a team that still needs to make some trades?

And maybe they don't want to take back any money. Winnipeg Jets. Yep. That's where I was thinking. But, you know, they could also get ready to laugh at a shot. They could offer sheet somebody. Ha ha. They got the picks.

Yeah, they got the picks and everything. They could do it. They won't, but they could. And again, we'll talk about Evan Bouchard's extension in a minute. Not that they were going to sign another fucking defenseman, but, you know, it's just interesting. And when I wrote an article about this, a Sabres fan was like, oh, you know what's interesting about this is how cheap the team's owner is. So maybe they're just doing it to save some cash. Yep.

But that could absolutely be it. Like that thought had crossed my mind, of course, but it's like you're going to follow up on all the success you had last season relative to what we think of the Savers doing. all the excitement you generated last season by, you know, basically getting worse or maybe not getting worse, but like holding the line. I have a very hard time believing still that they're going to go into the season with this current goaltending situation. Right. Now that doesn't mean that you have to go get Connor Hellabut. I think there's a strong argument to be made. that if Connor Hellebuk wants $9 million a year or something,

that you are better off spending that $9 million on two, $4 million goalies and hoping one of them hits at the right time. Sure. But I can't believe that with, you know, like you say, that I don't even know if I'd say success, but like there's optimism around this team. There's genuine optimism in Buffalo and that they're going to go in with these two no name,

with the Comrie and, uh, Devin Levi. Yeah. Well, their goalie of the future. Yeah, that's right. I,

I kind of, so you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you wouldn't go and get two guys. You would get one guy, him and Levi. Yeah. But I,

I, I just, that they're not going to add somebody. Uh. Well, the other, the other thing, I think that needs to be kept in mind,

here is that yeah the Sabres I think it's the fourth most goals last season something like that like a crazy number came out of nowhere they shot like 12% or 11.5% as a team and you know the reason they missed the playoffs last year is the goaltending sucked right like it was like 890 as a team or something like horrible numbers yeah and

I think the bet is that Devin Levi alone. He might not be great or anything, but he's not going to be that bad. I think what they're banking on. And so the Winnipeg Jets also maybe have to trademark Shifley, right? And if that's the case, you know, that just adds a little more insulation, a little more, let's make the offense a little more real, quote, unquote, than, uh, than it was last year, where it was kind of a fluke, let's be honest, you know.

I'm still, I still think that obviously they have a lot of room to grow offensively, but like maybe not to the point where next year they also have the fourth best offense in the league. Sure. I will say this. You mentioned the offer sheet path? Mm-hmm. I'm looking at the RFAs that are still unsigned. Yeah.

There's really nobody No That you would You're the only Star caliber RFA is Trevor Zegris And Anaheim has like A huge amount of cap money

Yeah they'd match They're not letting you You do that Yeah And you know Alexis Lefrenier I don't think is A guy that you're going to go out

And You heard of your first Rangers You make a trade if you want that guy, right? You just call them up. Yeah. Yeah. They're probably more than willing to take that phone call. So, yeah.

Yeah, maybe a trade. Or maybe just being cheap. Yeah, it's just really interesting because, again, like I said, the optimism around this team for the first time in however many years, 12, something like that, where people are like, damn,

the Sabres are going to be good in a year or two. You know? I don't know if you, my point is, I guess, I don't know if you want to take the step back from being like a 92 point team or whatever they were last year to being an 80 point team. Because you didn't get the insane goal scoring you did last year. Yeah. And yeah, they were 91 point team last year.

And we've all included. doing myself, kind of done the 180 on Kevin Adams and going, man, this guy seems to, he knows what he's doing. He's got a plan. He's chipping away at it. But this is, you know, we always say with the rebuilds, the tear down is the easy part comparatively. It's the building back up that can be difficult. And when, when do you make that push? And sometimes, obviously, we've seen teams try to do it too fast. And, falls apart. Sure.

We've also seen teams be too patient and you miss the moment and that, I don't know, it feels like there's some potential there in Buffalo, but we still got a month for them to go out. And it may be, maybe they are interested in somebody in Winnipeg or somewhere else and they're just playing patiently and knowing that prices will come down. Something's got a shake loose, yeah. Not a bad way to do business. For sure.

For sure. All right. Let's talk about that Evan Bouchard extension signed mere minutes before we hit record on this podcast. Or at least not announced, but like, you know, Elliot Friedman reported it. So, and with specific numbers. So I would say it's pretty close to a done deal. Two times 3.9 million. basically just a little bit more money,

but the same term as Keandre Miller signed with the Rangers this summer. Earlier this summer, I should say. Hard not to like it. I mean, you certainly like the player at that cap number. I think if you're an Oilers fan, your concern is, did we just do the Darnell Nurse thing again? of rather than locking somebody up long term,

we kick the can down the road on a little bridge deal and they get much more expensive two years from now or even one year from now. And I'm not saying that Evan Bouchard is darnel nurse for good or for bad, but I think at this point the return on locking up guys who are 22, 23 years old on long-term deals is pretty good. It's just a question of finding the cap space to do it.

And obviously, the oilers, that was a bit of an issue. Yeah. Again, the cap's going up, right? Like, we say this for every team, but this is the obvious place where it applies for the oilers, right? And I don't know. like the thing that immediately jumps to mind is you don't want to make the darnel nurse mistake again, right? Mm-hmm. Yep.

Like you said. And I think the issue with Darnell Nurse and how he's perceived is that, you know, he spends less time than he used to with McDavid and Drysidal. If he was, if he was just like glued to one of those guys 24-7 and got all the power play time and that kind of thing, I don't, people would be like, Is he super effective at five on five? No, but look at all the points. You know, he's running things on the power play, blah, blah, blah. And you can, like, tell yourself that, whether that's actually true, and it isn't. But whether that's actually true, you could tell yourself that.

But now Evan Bouchard does this thing. And he was great in the playoffs, right? And so the playoff thing is what would concern me, is that if you're, like, oh, shit, he just had, like, two good months. we got to lock this guy up long term to maybe not Darnell Nurse money just because they couldn't fit it under their cap, which by the way, this puts them a few hundred thousand dollars over their cap. So they'll figure something out with that. But I think this might be a case where the bridge deal makes a little bit of sense just because it's like, I'd really like to see Bouchard do that for a full. full season. And like he was good last season, but like he was phenomenal in the playoffs, I thought.

And you don't want to give him phenomenal in the playoffs money. And then he turns back into what he was in the regular season. So this is the kind of, this is kind of, I guess what we're talking about with Brandon Hagle. This is a show me deal that I don't, because so many defensemen have like Tyson Barry looked unbelievable on that Oilers power play for a little while, you know. Um, so because of that, I don't hate that this is a wait and see deal. And if you got to pay them six, seven, eight million bucks in a few years, hey, you know, at least then you know he earned it.

And you're, and you're only going to be competitive as long as dry sidel and McDavid or dry sidel and McDavid anyway. The only thing that I would say, and this is not targeted at the oilers, but just in general, because I'm hearing so much about, well, the cap's going on, the cap's going on. I feel like a lot of fans are looking at stuff going, well, this guy, right now, he's a $7 million player, let's say. We don't have $7 million.

Right. So if we kick the can down there in two years, though, the cap will go up and we'll be able to afford the $7 million player. Here's the thing. The players and their agents know the cap is going up, too. Sure. So the players and their agents in a couple years

are going to go, I'm not a $7 million. player anymore because the cap went up. I'm now an $8 million or whatever it is. Now, you still have some extra room to work with, but it's not like, I just feel like a lot of the thinking out there seems to have the player side stationary even as the cap goes up. And that's not how it's going to work.

That cap room is going to get eaten up real, real fast. Yeah. No, I get what you're saying. You worry about it. again, Edmonton is the team. Championship window is now. They haven't done it yet, which increases the pressure, but I'm sure they would have. It's something long term I would have liked better for them, but it probably just wasn't a realistic scenario.

Yeah. And again, like they only had about $3.6 million to spend, and they spent 3.9 today, right? Like, that's the issue. And I don't know. Like you said earlier, you like the price point on this player. Two years from now, maybe you don't. But, you know, a lot of things can change in two years, uh, cap wise. And, and I'm not just saying like the cap could go up $6 million.

I'm saying, you know, they don't bring back. I'm looking at their cap-friendly page right now. They don't bring back Warren Fogle. They find a way to, like Cody Cici's coming off the books. And maybe you figure out something to do with Brett Kulak. Two years from now, you know what you got is bigger fucking problems? Because Leon Tricidal's contract is up. Yeah.

You know? So maybe it's all moot. It's going to be fun next year, isn't it? Fun for me is a guy who's like. Yeah, that's what I meant. And anytime the oilers are like writhing on the floor going, oh, no. Fun for all of us. also probably very fun for Leondricidal and...

Yeah, every goal he scores, he just does the money, the finger thing that means money. And everybody's like, well, what can you say? You're going to give this guy $12 million or whatever. And then the year after that, McDavid's like, oh, and actually, you're going to give me 15. Yeah. You know what? Here's what I think they do to sort out the money problem two years from now. Jack Campbell, who?

I never heard of that guy. Oh, the guy that's on LTIR forever? Yeah, it doesn't matter to us. Yeah, that might be it. Yeah. So why don't we take a break? We'll be right back to talk about some other stuff that happened in the last couple of weeks. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Factor.

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H-E-L-P dot com slash puck. All right. The next piece of business here is this guy Jonathan Taves announced that he's not playing this year for anybody, which I think, I don't know, did that surprise you at all? Yes. It didn't shock me.

I thought we were going to get either I'm coming back or I'm done. I hadn't really considered the in-between approach. Honestly, the thing that I thought he was probably going to do, just because we hadn't heard anything and he hadn't signed, I was like, I bet he'll sign with someone like halfway through the season. Kind of pick and choose his spots, who looks good, that kind of thing. Yep. But nope, he's just taking a season off.

And I don't know. To me, it feels like if you're going, I'm taking a season off. When's the last time a guy took a season off? came back and was any good at all. Boy. Has it ever happened? I'm legitimately asking, because I can't remember. I mean, there have been guys who have missed a season due to injury and come back and

been good. But, I mean, that was like, I have a torn ACL. Sure. I'm not playing. I mean, as far as guys, you know, semi-voluntarily, because obviously with Taves, he's not healthy and that's a huge part of it. But

yeah, I don't know that there's a ton of precedent for a guy like this coming back and being anywhere near the top of his game, even relative to his age. Yeah, because I guess the thing that

springs to mind for me is dog, you weren't good last year. Mm-hmm. You know? So the idea that, oh, I'll just take a year off and, like, and granted, he was coming, he was dealing with a lot of health stuff and that kind of thing. But let, let, let's not pretend like last year wasn't a struggle for him and the team. Yeah. And how much is that intertwined? And, you know,

they kind of made it clear they didn't really have any interest in bringing him back regardless. Same with Patrick Kane, right? So, like you said, I guess I'm not surprised. Surprised, maybe isn't the right word, that he's not playing the season, but I thought he was going to play either a half season or never again. This thing of like, I'm going to take a gap year.

It's crazy to me. Well, I mean, reading between the lines a little bit, it almost feels like what he's saying is, like the last few years sucked. They were brutal on him, you know, health-wise and then trying to play. I mean, no, he wasn't great last year,

but, you know, he wasn't healthy last year either. And he's trying to tough it out and play through it and all of those things. And he's just saying, like, you know what, I'm going to do, I'm going to take the year off. And like this almost sounds to me like it's a guy who's retiring, but just leaving the door open. And maybe it's as simple as he's just not ready to say the words yet. Yep. because, you know, he's going to go out there. And, I mean, like, like, what's going to happen over this year, right?

Like, one of the things he said in his statement, he said something along the lines of, like, I want to go ahead and enjoy life again. Well, if he spends the next year and he's not enjoying life, it's hard to imagine he's going to turn around and go, you know what I need is the pressure being a multi-million dollar big name athlete again. And if he is enjoying life, which obviously is, is what we're all hoping for, and he's having a great time, do you necessarily want to go back?

But the question is going to be like, how much does he miss it? Right? That's ultimately, it sounds like he's going to go live the life that he deserves and wants, and then you just see, do I wake up every morning still having that itch or am I actually ready to go on? But this to me feels a little bit like a retirement without the retirement. Yeah, I think that's. a good read on it.

My thing is, with respect to I'm going to go live the life, you know, enjoy life or whatever. You ever see anybody take like a year vacation and then go, fuck man, you know what? I can't wait to do is get back to work. Yep. You know?

I have not, but I don't know a lot of professional athletes. And I have a feeling their jobs are more fun than most of ours. Yeah, I guess you got to like working out, right? I guess that's what it boils. down to. Yeah. Not me. That shit sucks.

That's not fun. No. Lifting up heavy stuff? You know what the best part of working out is the moment when you immediately after being finished working out. And it's the longest possible time until the next workout. Yeah, I can't be out here playing these workout games. That sucks.

So, look, it's one of those things. I have, uh, I, I, I, I guess I'm not optimistic that this is all going to work out exactly as he envisioned it. But I think, I think you're right where he's just like, you know, there, there's a lot of guys where, like, they announced their retirement through the NHLPA or whatever. And you're like, that guy wasn't officially retired. That was like three years ago. Sure. Speaking of which, did you see who I? Was it with Colorado who got a PTO the other day?

No, I didn't see. I'm going to see if I can find that. I'm going to, but I'm just going to try to verify here. Yeah, it is the avalanche. Peter Holland, remember Peter Holland? Yes, I do. Yeah, he's getting a pro tryout. That's right.

He has, from what I can tell, he hasn't played professional hockey. Since 2021. Okay. Good for him. Was he hurt? Was he battling? I have no idea. Okay.

He, in fact, in 2022, he announced he had retired from professional hockey. And then August 2023, he's like, I'm back, baby. And the abs are going, oh, this is a guy who qualifies for the veteran minimum. This is a guy that we, this is a guy that we can play. in preseason games instead of Nathan McKinnon. That's exactly, that's exactly why they, they brought him in.

I would, I would put, you know, not, look, I didn't watch a lot of, Eaterenberg's, KHL games in 2020 and 2021.

Oh, okay. Not as much as I would have liked, I guess is, but, but he put up decent numbers there, I guess, but,

you know, that was two, three, two years ago, so I don't know. It's, I guess my point is he's not being brought in with a real chance of impressing the abs. And maybe an AHL deal or something is in his future, but that's probably about it. And maybe that's all he wants. Hey, I don't know.

But it just goes to show. Like, you can't, you can't just, for a lot of these guys turn it off and turn it back on again. And that's, you wonder about tapes. That's all. Yeah. And I mean, at this point, we say this for every player, but especially with Jonathan Taves, like, you just, whatever works out best, let's, we just hope that's it. You know, and if that means he doesn't play again, then okay. If he takes the year, hell, if he takes half a year off and in February, he's like, you know what, I feel amazing.

and I want to play again and I'm in great shape and all that side then yeah open the door like this is we've seen other guys do that and either way like the guys he's done everything he needs to do in a career and now you're just kind of hoping

for the best for the person By the way somewhat related to this have you seen this like kind of pushback recently about like yeah but is Jonathan Tave's really a Hall of Famer? I've seen some of that. And I think I think some of it is like it's valid to the extent of if you want to, if you want to, if you want to have the debate for the sake of the debate, go ahead.

He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. There is no question. It's so academic at this. Like, again, I've said it a million times. I'm a small hall guy. If it's up to me, I'm going in there. I'm kicking out like a hundred people day one. Like if I'm in charge of this, right?

And look, I said it before, I'll say it again. I'm not going to complain. The horses are out of the barn on this one. They're over the horizon. It's not a small hall hall anymore, if it ever was. And so like, so for me, even as a small hall guy, I'm sitting there going, well, obviously he's in the fucking Hall of Fame. Captain of Team Canada or whatever, uh, won three Stanley Cups.

multiple Selkies was, you know, when they were doing the thing of like, is someone other than Sidney Crosby the best player in hockey? He got that talk. Yeah. You know? What people are going to say. What are we talking about? And again, it's not, it's not completely unfair.

They're going to look at it and say, played 15 seasons, did not even get to 900 points. Yeah. He won two Selkees, which is good, but, you know, hey, so did Rod Bryden. more, it's one yes and one less than Yerry Layton. He had one season where he was a top five heart player. He had one season where he was a second team all-star and that's it. So it's one of these things where if you're just, you know, people always go, oh, you've got to watch the games, it's not just a spreadsheet.

If you were just looking at the spreadsheet and you knew nothing about the NHL, you knew that you were just looking at the numbers, you would look at this guy's numbers and go, why is this guy a surefire slam dunk hall of famer when Rod Brendan Morrieri Layton and you know

name the good defensive players are questionable so it's a nice theoretical debate but that is all you're having he's going in yeah it's there's no circumstances

especially if his career ends due to health problems like there's there's no scenario where he's not in and almost certainly you know first ballot if, you know, depending on what year that ends up being, I don't think it's going to be a question.

Yeah. Yep. Okay. So with this announcement, not that he was coming back to Chicago anyway, but it got my mind churn in a little bit because he is or was the captain in Chicago and now they do not have one. They are one of 10 teams league-wide that doesn't have a captain. I figure, let's go through and let's talk about who the next captain of those 10 teams will be. Okay. And we'll go alphabetical.

I'm not, I'm not going to try to get too cute with it. The Anaheim Ducks gets left retired. They didn't have a captain last year. Who do you think is the captain? It doesn't have to be this year. I'm just saying... Yeah. Yeah.

It feels, I mean, long-term, probably Zegris, once you get a blocked up. Hmm. Interesting. Maybe even do them together. Troy Terry would be there if you needed something shorter term. That would have been my answer. Is Troy Terry, he's signed for a bunch of years, you just signed this summer for a bunch of years. He's 25 years old.

And unlike Zegras, he's not out there hot dogging around. Not playing the game the right way. Good Lord. I'm just looking at the, like I called up their page. Yeah. And I just, I got distracted by the red and green bars at the top. Good Lord, they were terrible last year. Yeah, they stink. They lost their last 12 games in a row.

I didn't realize that. That rocks. Yeah. Anyways, yeah, Ziegers are, like, Cam Fowler could be your, like, short-term gap guy. Sure. But then you could have done that last year, too. they didn't. Yep. Yeah. I think it's probably Troy Terry. He just seems like in my head,

he's got a little more captain material to him. I don't watch the ducks enough to know for sure, I guess. But that just, again, like I said this when they hired Greg Cronin to be the coach, like first thing he did, he's like, we got to make sure these guys play responsible. And it's like, that's a real shot across Trevor Zegress's bow, man. I don't know.

I don't know that you make those statements and then go, and by the way, he's the captain. Sell a lot of shirts, I guess, but who knows? I think it's Terry, are you going with, you're sticking? I'll go Zegers, but. Yeah, that's fun. Why not? Just so we can disagree.

Yeah. Arizona. Captain Free for a few years now. A few years, yeah. I feel like this is one where you probably, if you, told me Clayton Keller was already the captain, I would have been like, all right. It's a little bit tough, right? Because it's, you're thinking him or Nick Schmaltz, and both of them have kind of seemed to grumble a little bit at maybe the direction lately.

And both have been like Schmaltz especially was showing up in some trade talk this year. It didn't happen, but. Right. I assume Keller's the guy. I mean, they don't really even have anyone else. They do not. No, Lawson Krause would be the only guy that, and if you're making Lawson Krauss, your captain, boy, boy.

I think at that point, you bring in some 35-year-old and just have him be the guy. Geez, they've got Nick Buksted is 30, and he's the oldest guy on the roster right now. Last year, at least, I'm looking at it. He just turned 31. I regret to inform you. Oh. Okay. Yeah.

Sorry, Nick. I'm more sorry for the fact that I just looked and you're still on the coyote's roster, so bad news all around for. The only other thing that I can think of here is they wait another like two or three years and give it to one of Gunther and Coolly. You could definitely do it that way. Yeah. If you do, though, and I'm Clayton Keller, like it's, that feels like a bit of a knock, doesn't it? It certainly does, yeah. But again, like...

Although it's, who knows? Clayton Keller might be like, no, I don't want it right now, man. I don't... Yeah, I want you to trade me to a good team. So, yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. I will go with kind of one of the younger guys than we wait another two years or something.

Like, new arena, and we'll talk about that in a bit, but new arena gets built, here's our new captain, it's this guy, you know? Now that we have like some, Because I don't know that you name a captain and then go, and by the way, we're fucking moving to Houston. True. Yeah, it's like just everything is on hold, it feels like.

Yep. In Arizona. Boston Bruins. Is it McAvoy? See, I thought it was McAvoy. And then I saw a lot of people talking about, like, the chatter around. Marshand was such that I was like, I guess it probably will be him for another two or three years. Just as like a thanks for, thanks for being around so long and, you know, what he's meant to the team over the last however many years or whatever.

And then you can make it McAvoy three years from now or whatever. Because Marchand's 35 years old. Can you believe that shit? That is one of the like, boy, I guess I am really old now. Brad Marshand his next deal is going to be a 35 plus contract. Yep. And I'm just, you know, I'm looking at it. And the Bruins are weird because they had Bork and Chera and like both were captains for a decade plus.

But they've had, you know, original six teams, you never know how up their own behind they are. But they've had short-term captains poor. They've had guys wear the sea for two or three years, including Bergeron. So I don't see why. I'd say probably Marchand. And McAvoy, depending on how things go, probably gets it at some point after that. Yeah. Let's go, Brad.

And like, that'll tick people off too. So that's fun. That is, look, especially what where Brad Marchand is concerned, I do think that making people mad is going to be part of the equation. Sure. You know, everyone in Boston will be like, oh, that rocks. I love it. Get me, get me, let me take my jersey to the first. fucking pro shop get a C-sone on there for 35 bucks or whatever, you know?

Whereas everybody outside of Boston will be furious, and that's what they want. Next up, this is a very interesting one to me, because I don't know, you could tell me nine guys is the answer. The Calgary Flames. I have absolutely no idea who you make the captain there. When was the last captain they had? Oh, Giordano probably? Yeah, it must have been Mark Giordano, yeah. I was thinking like, did they, does it honestly go all the way back to a Gindler?

The Gingley, yeah, no. The name that I've heard the most, not in an insider sense, but just in fans, is Lindholm. That he'd be the guy that if he re-ups, if they get him locked in, that he could potentially be the captain next. Unless I heard he wanted out. Yep. So, plan B. I think the obvious answer is McKenzie Weeger. Yeah. I don't know if I'd say obvious, but I like that. That's... Well, okay. Let me rephrase. They have like three guys signed beyond next season.

Yeah. Five guys, sorry. Huberto, Cadry, Blake Coleman, Uyghur, Rasmus Anderson. That's it. And

of those guys, the one again that just vibes-wise feels the most captainy is McKenzie Weger. You know, I'm going to go, I'll go off the board a little bit then, and give me Nesm Katry. I think he's a guy that would...

You want to talk about one. pissing people off, you know. Yeah. I think he would embrace it, though. Like, he seems like the sort of guy who want to be a captain in a Canadian market. But, yeah, this is one of those.

And obviously, look, I mean, we're two guys sitting on a podcast with no access to, like, what the dynamics are in the room or anything. That's right. There could be, like, some, you know, Flames guys sitting there going, like, we all hate Cadry.

Rasmus Anderson is the guy who we all listen to. And you know, all. Well, then do that then. But, yeah. Yeah. Yep. I guess my only thing is, as I look at the Flames cat-friendly page, a lot of UFAs next summer. Yep.

That's all. So it's easy to see there's plenty of turnover and blah, blah, blah. Okay, Chicago's up next. So typically the way that you do this is, You name somebody, you get some veteran for a few years, and then you turn it over to Connor Bedard. Yes. You don't give it to him right away.

Although there's precedent for giving it to guys who are like 19. Now that what makes it tricky with Chicago is there's still in that rebuild phase where you look at veteran guys, right? They have Corey Perry. They have Nick Folino who's been a captain. They have Taylor Hall who maybe would make some sort of. But each one of those guys could be trade bait at the deadline. And you don't want to name a captain and then trade them two months later necessarily.

Yeah, you for sure don't. So to me, your options here are either hold off. Kind of see how the season goes. Ideally, you make progress this season to the point where, next this time next summer your veterans are not all you know on month to month leases on their apartment that's right yeah living in a hotel or or you just well i was going to say you do you do set jones since you know he's the one veteran that's not going anywhere but he's locked in for so many years that when it's time to turn the keys over to badard you don't necessarily

want it to be a taking the sea from somebody right i think you hold on off if you're them. I agree that you hold off for this year and to your, to basically everything you just said. I think you just wait a year or two and then say Connor Bedard's a captain. I don't think there will be a captain between now and then. Bedard will, it'll go Taves blank for a couple years, Bedard. No, nobody in between. That's my guess.

Yeah. Yeah, Tyler Johnson is tempting, but just as a guy who's, you know, won cups and all that. But again, UFA at the end of this year. Yep, he's gone. See, uh, in the way. Taylor Hall is two years. I didn't realize that. Yep.

Two years left. That, yeah, maybe gives you a little more, but, nah, nah, I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't know. The Philadelphia Flyers. Who's, who's going to do it the Flyer Way? the question.

Who? You know, I was the other day I... Yeah. The other day I was playing the new Texas Chainsaw Massacre game. It's not very good,

whatever. It was on Game Pass. It didn't cost me a cent. But it did, that did remind me that Texas Chainsaw Massacre has maybe the greatest tagline in movie history.

Do you know what the tagline for... No, I do not. mask or is. Who will survive and what will be left of them? Tells you everything you need to know about the movie. People getting cut up with a big chainsaw. You know? And honestly, that's how I feel looking at the Flyers roster right now. Who will survive the John Tortorella era and what will be left of this roster at the end of it? Yeah. And this, of

All of them. It really does feel silly to even try when it's a John Tortorella team. Yes. Because in addition to the dynamic, like, just what does this crazy guy think about this player? Like, there is, there could add. The answer is going to be Nick DeLoree. And you're like, well, I guess. I mean.

You convince me that, like, John Tortorella loves Sean Walker. Because he saw him, like, you know, I don't know. The National Anthem came on the radio and he. started doing push-ups or something, and Tortorale's like, that's my guy. There's nobody here that feels like a long-term piece. Travis Kineckney is the closest, but there's been trade talk around him.

Well, they have Mark Stahl. Yeah. You could do Mark Stahl for a year or two. He's basically my age. There are two guys signed decently long-term for the Flyers. It's Travis Sandhouse. who has a full no trade clause and Joel Farabee who doesn't.

Who's only 23 also. I mean, Sanheim would have to be the guy. Sanheim does feel like the guy. But again, like you said, John Tortorella, you're just like, he could say anybody. He could say Rasmus Ristolinus the fucking guy. And you're like, oh, okay, great.

Whatever. But, yeah, I guess we'll see. but I'm going to go with Sanheim just because it feels like the kind of the easiest one. I'm with you. I'm put me in on that as well. All right, Seattle. Seattle.

So this is finally a team that's not in full on rebuild. Feels like there should be options here. Feels like that. Whether there is, it's a different question. Well, Jordan Eberley, Jane Schwartz, Yanni Gordon, Adam Larson were alternates last year. Right.

Of those, Eberle's got only one year left on his deal. Larson's got two, Schwartz, three, Gord, two. I mean, I think any of them could be solid, solid choices. Yeah, I think, I think you would want to go with a slightly younger guy.

Like, Eberley, you know, he's going to be closer to retirement. Like, are you going to do the, we mentioned Mark Gerdano earlier. He was the captain for like a year and three quarters or whatever, and then they traded him, right? Yeah. I don't know that you want to go short term with a captain again. Like, you don't want to set the precedent with, yeah, we gave it to Jordan Eberley and then he retired. Or do you want to give it to somebody, have them do it for three years, and then you can give it to Maddie Baneers? Sure, yep.

I think, yeah, I like Adam Larson for that then. I like him for like the next two years or whatever. I kind of think they won't do it this season. I think they might do it next summer. And then at that point, maybe you just say it is Maddie Baneers. Okay. Well, you say, you know what? You say Larson.

I'll go with-in-shirts. No, you know what? I'm going with Maddie Baneers. Really? I don't think they do like a short-term one, yeah. All right. I'll say Jane Schwartz. All right, great. Next up is St. Louis.

Kind of a weird one. If Cairo and Thomas old enough, maybe, Braden Chen was an alternate. I could see that. He's been around a long time. And he, Jesus, he ever signed for a long time. Ugh. Okay.

Well, yeah. Colton Perako is the other alternate who's still there, And that's the guy I'm shocked Isn't the captain already The way his trajectory is going I don't know that That he's the guy that you want to Well he's signed through 2030

So I don't think they're Red Arrow man Boy does he Braden Shen is signed through 2008 And if you're like Sean isn't Brin Shen already 32 Yes

Huh that's interesting that you bring that up It turns out he is Yeah He just turned just yesterday Hey, happy birthday, Brady. Happy birthday at Braden. One of the youngest 32s you're ever going to see out there. That's right.

And he will be a young 37 when this contract expired. I'm going to say Braden Shin. I'm going to say, do I want to go Cairo or Thomas? I'll go Thomas. Again, not knowing anything about how like the fans view. Like, I'm sure that everybody hates Robert. Thomas here. Oh, okay, I didn't know. Vancouver.

I mean, this, you would think this is just waiting for Eliza Pedersen, isn't it? You would think. We'll see. Has to sign and is that there was the interview with Elliot Freeman today where he was like, I'm not really in a hurry. I'm not even going to

think about it until the season starts and all that. Remember, he's an RFA next year, so he's not, he's not BOLF. RFA one year away from UFA though. So you would think it's got to be Pedersen or Quinn Hughes if something goes off the railings with Pedersen. Correct. You know, J.T. Miller is maybe the sort of veteran you would look at and Brock Basser's been there forever.

And he's had his foot out the door almost as long, right? It has to be Pedersen or Hughes and I'm going to say Pedersen. I'll go with that. I guess the question would be, do you give it to Pedersen this year? or do you hold it for him? Or do you say, hey, if we're going to have this uncertainty, we're just going to give it to Quinn Hughes, who signed for four years.

But Quinn Hughes is only 23. Pedersen's not that much. I think it's going to be Pedersen, but I do not know when that's going to be. But yeah, Pedersen feels like the guy. The only thing that makes the Pedersen thing interesting to me is that while I'm sure he's, like, good in the room or whatever, the way I perceive him, and again, this is just my perception, I'm not in the room in Vancouver or all that kind of thing, is he's just like kind of like, oh, whatever, about everything, you know, like including signing a $100 million contract in a month and a half?

In that Ellie Freeman interview, apparently he's like gotten super into fitness and conditioning, which is something, I mean, I've told people that before, and it wasn't true, but it's. Yeah, we were just talking about our view of fitness and condition. But it is possible that he is sort of transforming into that, you know, Nathan McKinnon-style psycho dude. I'd be psyched for that. I love Elias Patterson. He's one of my favorite players in the league. And so I'd love to see this guy just go, guess what?

I'm a fucking psycho now. I'm going to score 100 points every year for the rest of my life. Mm-hmm. That would be so sick to me. Would also be continuing a long stretch of Swedish captains for the Canucks. It's true. They had, it was Horvett recently, but Cedin before that, not counting the one weird Luongo year, it was Marcus Nazlin before that.

And then from 97 to 2000, they didn't have a captain. Isn't that weird? Yeah, that's crazy. Strange. Hey, it happens. There was like, there's something written here, but it's like scratched out and heavy, black magic marker, so. Yeah.

And finally, maybe the tough, maybe the toughest of the bunch, the Winnipeg Jets. What a weird, man, wasn't this team supposed to make a bunch of changes? They're, I mean, they're supposed to do a, hey, look, we were, we were just saying earlier, isn't it great to not work, you know? Yeah. Kevin Shevoldeoff's trying that out. What am I going to do? Nothing.

Who gives this shit? Doesn't matter to me. What are they going to do? Fire me? Yeah. It's Josh Morrissey, isn't it? Yeah, it feels like it. By the way,

Josh Morrissey, the only player in the entire organization signed Beyond 2026. The only one. Nice. Very nicely done. And the, God, even if you want to go to Beyond 2025,

Kyle Connor, Adam Lowry, Josh Morrissey. That's it. Yep. Kevin Shevel-Day off, he's in a, he's in like a lounge chair, his feet are up, sunglasses on, hands behind his head. He's feeling great about everything. What's not to like?

So, yeah, I think Morrissey is the right call there, only because there's nobody else to do it. He's the only, he and Mark Shifley are the only alternates that are still there. And Shifley is, again, you want to talk about a foot out of the door. Seems to have one foot out the door, and even if he doesn't, it doesn't seem like he's... Obviously, Blake Wheeler was the captain. You could do Kyle Conner, maybe? Would be a guy that... Yeah, if you can bring him back.

Well, Kyle Conner's three more years, right? Yeah, I understand. But Josh Morrissey, this guy almost won a Norris trophy last year. He only came in, like, ninth place or whatever. Did you know that his last name kind of rhymes with Norris? Did you ever think of that? Yeah, I guess you're right. I never thought of that, but I guess that's true.

How fun. Yeah. So that's it. Those are all the teams that don't have captains right now. Okay, let's wrap it up with this. Of all the teams we just named, how many name a captain this year? I'll say half. Let's go half.

Wow. You think too many? I think that's way too many I think the answer is two or three I think Boston does it but like they open training camp and they're and they say it's Brad Marshall I think Boston does I think the ducks

when Ziegers signs I think Seattle does I think St. Louis does and I'll say Winnipeg say Vancouver probably at Pedersen but it sounds like he won't sign

so I'll say Winnipeg. Those are my picks. I think Boston, St. Louis, and maybe Seattle. Like I said, I think Seattle's going with Beneers in a year. But, yeah, anyway, why don't we take another break? We'll be right back to talk about just a few more things. Our next partner is AG1 by Athletic Greens. Everybody's got their own reasons for wanting to try supplements, vitamins, considering whether there's a program out there for you.

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Let's start. We mentioned the Elias Patterson interview earlier today. he said he's not in a big rush to sign a contract. He wants to do it in season. William Nealander basically said the same thing. A lot of time or something like that was that it was the quote. How do you feel about this of the teams they play for? I think I'm okay with it if I'm the Leafs

because I think Nealander's clearly priority number two until they get Matthew. Sure. I'm a little bit less okay with it if I'm Vancouver. I probably would have liked to have done something during the season, or during the off season, A, to get it out of the way, and B, to get it done before Matthews signs

and potentially adjusts the scale. Though that, that I think gets overrated, because I can tell you, as a Leaf fan, I've seen Leaf players readjusts the scales and have nobody actually used the new scales. That was a really fun five years ago. We're apparently going to do it again. So I, you know, I think from a Leafs perspective, the news out of the Nealander thing was he did say, I don't want to be anywhere but Toronto.

Which is what you're going to say. But there had been some talk that Neelander was maybe the guy who felt like he didn't, you know, felt like he had a discount on his last deal, saw his teammates get very much not discont. counts and was going to look for a big number and was going to be fine with moving if if he needed to. And that all still could absolutely be the case. But, you know, the fact that he's saying the right things, you know, I remember there was some, it got a little bit ugly the last time he went through this with sitting out the first couple of months and maybe it's not going in that direction this time.

But I think everything in Toronto goes through Matthews and I think we're still probably a couple weeks away from that happening. So we will see. Yeah, I think that's much like you. I'm sitting here going like, oh, are we really going to, are we really going to worry about like the Nielander deal when it's certainly a less pressing issue

for the future of the franchise? Whereas with Patterson, if I'm Vancouver, I'm like, I need this guy signed fucking yesterday. Like, I'm maybe not panicked is the right word, but I'm like worried about it, you know? Because if he wants out, what is the direction of that franchise? You know, I'm really fucking worried about it if I'm if I'm Vancouver. I'm worried about it, although just, you know, again, he is an RFA. So you do have, in theory, two years to figure this out. Although, if it gets to next summer, maybe you figure the writings on the wall.

Yeah, this is one of those things where I think if you're, if he's like, well, I'm really only comfortable signing a one-year deal. I'm even more panic than I was before just because of. Yeah. Yeah. Although you can trade him at that point. Sure, you don't want to, but you can't. Again, it's not a like hands are tied completely situation. But if you trade him, I guess this is my point.

If you trade him, which like obviously that's a possibility, what is the rest of the franchise doing? Yeah. Because it's not like they have anybody who's even close to his caliber coming in. Like they have good players in the pipeline or whatever, but like Pedersen, when he's, you know, having a good season is one of the best players in the league.

So if you lose him and like Demko is maybe, well, he's certainly getting up there. He's like 28 or 29 or something like that. And you're like,

oh, we don't have the guy who drives the bus for us offensively now. Like, what do you do? Mm-hmm. Not that the,

Not that the Canucks are unaccustomed to being in no man's land in terms of like the direction of the franchise. But boy, oh boy. That would just feel like it was, what's the word I'm looking for? Like a gut shot, you know, where it's like, yeah, to the fan base, like, if he's out, like, who's left for them to be excited about? Yeah, it feels like we've been talking to Vancouver for a while that, oh man, do you do a rebuild, but you got Patterson and Hughes and their prime, you can't really start, like, that would answer your question. Totally.

You just hope it doesn't. I don't think I'm panicking yet, though, if I'm a Canucks fan. I'm, panicking is definitely not the right word. I am cautious, certainly. You're concerned at this point, I think. Yes, that's right. So yeah, that's that. I think since the last time we spoke,

the coyote's owner put in a letter of intent, which I'm not a lawyer, I don't know what the fuck that means, to buy land in Mesa, Arizona that could, I think the phrasing was, could potentially be a site for a new arena. And so when I'm hearing letter of intent to maybe build an arena, you know what I'm hearing? Really?

Nothing's happening. I don't know. I don't know how you feel about it, but. I mean, I feel exhausted. Yeah. Just talking about this stupid team in their stupid arena. Yeah. Sure.

I'm they Boy, we're going to miss them when they're gone, aren't we? Aren't we just going to be, it's going to be sad? Well, what's interesting is that the other day they also What's his name?

Craig Morgan, the reporter down there covers all things coyotes Is plugged in as anybody in the league About the team they covered said that André Turney got a new contract, or it will get one in the near future it's been agreed to. So that's something. That's like some level of optimism that they're not going to turn over to the coaching staff anytime soon.

Yep. And why would you? I mean, given where they're at, they've done a good job. They've done, I mean, you could, if you wanted to be a cynic, you could argue they did too good a job. job last year. That's true. Squeezing wins out of a young team that we all kind of thought was headed for dead last. So yeah, I think it's always, it's always awkward when you have a very clear rebuild,

like tear it down to the studs rebuild and you get the teaching coach. And there's always that awkward moment when you're ready to start winning where it's like, do we move on now to the, you know, do we pat you on the back and send you out the door? Yeah. Because sometimes the teaching coach is not the winning coach. But they're not there yet in Arizona yet. So yeah, keep your guy. He's done a good job.

He's done probably a good enough job that even if and when it's time for somebody else in Arizona, he'll have interest around the league. So it's kind of a win for everyone there. Yeah, I think that the only thing I would caution about is, like you said, like the perception that they were really tough to play against last year, Carol Vemelka just went fucking psycho mode

for a few months there. Yeah. And that, to me, is the big concern. Like, if Vemelka isn't as good as he showed last season, and I've said before, I like the goalie, you know, like I think he's a good player. But I don't know that he's as good behind that team.

Like, you know what I mean? mean like I wonder how much of that was overperformance and if you know they lose eight points in the standings and it's like oh maybe maybe we're not as far along as we thought like how does the how did they react after that I don't know but if the coach is extended the coach is extended you know so there there's not a lot you can say with a lot of certainty in a in the in the coyotes organization right now. They got the coach. Yep.

So that's something. And then I guess we'll end this episode on a bit of a down note here. Lost two people in the NHL world recently. Rodion Amirov and Rick Jeneret both passed away since last we spoke. Obviously very different circumstances. Yep. And two very sad stories. Mirov had been at least first round draft pick a few years ago,

diagnosed with brain tumor. There had been, you know, the fact that he was over, mostly over in Russia, kind of made news updates a little bit hit and miss, but it was a little weird because the last update we had heard a couple months ago had seemed very positive. And then this news, from a fan's perspective, kind of came out. of nowhere, but apparently there were some reports that I guess he had come over at some point last year and to visit with the Leafs and get on the ice and do some things. And maybe the doctors

took a look at him here and said, you know what, this is a lot more serious and dire than we realized. So, you know, awful situation. Very, very young man. just terrible set of circumstances that, from all accounts, he handled with about as much grace and courage as you could possibly hope for from someone that age. Rick Jenneret, you know, older guy and something where, you know, I guess on some level, we kind of knew this was coming, but just a legend. man, like growing up in Toronto as a kid, we got like Buffalo TV over there.

That was our link into the United States. So, you know, I heard probably more of Rick Jenneret than than almost anyone growing up. Just absolute, absolute legend, absolutely fantastic. And the thing with Rick Jenneret is he had that style. and we so often say somebody's like, you know, the old cliche, right? Often imitated, never duplicated, I think. Man, where there are a lot of Rick Jennerite imitators out there. Yeah, with the catchphrases and the like, you know, trying to, like, trying to go viral even before that was a thing.

But like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to do the big silly call. And it just, for so many guys, it just doesn't work. And he pulled it off. he like with him it always felt real it never felt like somebody was sitting there looking at a cue card with like a little dumb catchphrases they'd written down to try to get over like it just felt spontaneous the only other guy that's ever come close to pulling it off is mike lang in pittsburg um but you know just the the emotion the you know a guy who was an unabashed homer for the sabers and yet like you could look at listen to him as a visiting fan, you know? Not, he wasn't the Homer and the like Jack Edwards, like always. That's what I was going to say, yes. No, he was just, this was a guy.

Like, if you're a fan, you loved him because you're like, this guy feels like a fan too. And obviously, you know, you had the Mayday call, but so many others. Just, I, I can't say enough about how much I love listening to him all along the way. and it's sad, sad news for Sabres fans, but one more chance to just celebrate that you had an absolute icon, unique talent associated with your team for so many decades.

Totally. Just a phenomenal, phenomenal voice that we're going to remember for a long, long time. Yeah, I think, I guess my reaction was like, you know,

he was an older, guy so and he had not been in great health so it wasn't really surprised certainly but um it was it was just one of those things where it's like yeah there goes one of the best to ever do it you know like you can't you can't put it any uh any planer than that like as you said a often imitated never never duplicated and that kind of stuff like it's just and if you're somebody out there, you know, you're maybe starting down a broadcasting career, like that, your lesson there is, you know, finding your voice, finding your style. Totally.

It's not to imitate Rick Generate. Don't bother. Can't be done. Don't try to be the next Rick Generate. There will never be one. But, you know, that there is room, even in this, you know, kind of homogenized sports world that we're in and out for something. a little bit different and unique.

If it comes from a place of passion and a real place and not a cynical man, you never felt like Rick Jenneret was playing the character of Rick Jeneret. He was just, that was him. Totally. Yeah. And like the ones that are the most

successful, that is the case with them. Like they, those guys, as they say in wrestling, live the gimmick. Yep. You know? And like, whether you like them or not, Jack Edwards, that guy lives the gimmick, you know, and that's why he's been around so long. Because he's always Jack Edwards. He's never not Jack Edwards.

So for me, I miss though. Like, I'm going to, I feel like those guys are a, not to you, this is maybe not the best term, a dying breed, you know, like they're, they're, uh, the number of guys where it's just like, yeah. you can turn on X teams game and the announcer is not particularly like easy to discern from this other team's game.

Yeah. Whereas you watch a Sabres game. You watch a Bruins game. You're like, oh, I'm watching a Sabres or a Bruins game because I know because of who the guy is. Sure. So yeah, it's like I said,

he feels like they're just not going to they don't make him like that anymore as they say. And the one nice piece of this story is that, you know, over the last couple years, they were able to give him a real goodbye in Buffalo. Yep. A lot of times, you know, when somebody passes, there's that feeling of, you know, there's this outpouring. But then you go, man, why couldn't we have done that when they would have been there to appreciate it? and Rick got to hear it.

He got to hear it from Buffalo fans and beyond. So that's maybe a nice note to leave it on. Yep. You got anything to plug? I'm still on my summer schedule, so one piece a week, have a piece this week on one word that I would take out of the NHL rulebook

that would fix a problem that you've, as a hockey fan, you may never even have realized it was a problem, but I think once I laid out for you, you'll go, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. And unlike a lot of things I complain about, that's right. Unlike a lot of things I complain about, I actually have a solution here. Yeah.

You don't have any ice out there. That's right. Yeah, it's puck. We just take that out. We're all set. That's exactly. Replace with basketball. That actually, that would be fun.

That sounds good, yeah. Yeah, I'm down to writing only one or two things a week and doing transaction grades for the next little while here. So I looked the other day. I'm up to 173 transactions I have graded this summer. Slicker. Yeah, that's exactly right. And other than that, you know, what we learned is the very common thing that I

I always write. So you know what it is at this point, folks. That's the point here. And yeah, that's it for me. E.P.Ringside.com. And oh, patreon.com slash pox soup. A lot of bonus episodes coming your way this week. And be sure to check all those out as well.

That's it. Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back in a couple of weeks, I think. And, yeah, till then, bye-bye. saves and slap shots and goons We've got sportly commentary To what if you commute But we also cover movies, TV shows

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