Puck Soup - Canuckleheads

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

The boys look at the problems with the Vancouver Canucks and how to fix them; the controversy over penalty calls in the NHL for star players; the Ducks are up and the Islanders are down; China, COVID and the Olympics; chrome helmets and bitcoin stadiums; and the best and worst sci-fi action comedies. Sponsored by Brooklinen, Mack Weldon and BetterHelp.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nonsense. I'm Greg Wichenski, V.SPN. Home of... Well, you know, my favorite thing that we were the home of this week is the notion that someone pointed out that John Tortorella is being kept hostage by us, so he can't take new

NHL jobs, and by hostage, it's having him review plates of chicken farmesan and communicating with a Zamboni robot that brings in pizza during the point. So the mis... Yes. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like something he actually would really hate. Yeah, I know. And so I'm intrigued by the idea that we've become sort of this mystery science theater 300 thing for Tortorella where he's like being kept in a studio in Bristol being forced to play out

reindeer games and watch hockey. Is he, that he's not coaching? Like, have you run back the video to see if he's blinking in Morse code? Like, get me the fuck out of here. I don't think, I have a feeling that he'd be more vocal in that. I have a feeling that torts might just be, you know, he would pull, you know, what you see

on British television sometimes, people just take off the microphone and walk off stage during the segment. I don't know that I see that. I guess I don't watch a lot of British television. Well, you know, it happens sometimes during, like, an intense, like, news thing. Someone will just take off their mic. Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, so most of the British television I watch involves a man getting a turkey on his head

and, like, making it so he can drive his car while sitting in an easy chair on top of his car. So you're not watching a lot of Coronation Street or the EastEnders or the long-running UK soap operas that produce most of our actors and actresses, no? No, I haven't seen that one. There's also the one where a grim-faced detective with family problems and dark secrets goes to a small town to solve a murder. I've seen that show. That show for British TV. I, you know, my British TV thing used to be Doctor Who, but I got to say that kind of fallen off the show since they changed the showrunner. Since 1962 or whatever.

Thanks. It's always stunk. No, it's not true. And I like Joey, I like Joe, I think Jody Whitaker's, uh, uh, doctor is, is good. I just think that she's been failed by some of the absolute weakest material that has been on the show in, in decades. Like, you know, I'd be, I'd rather be watching somebody in a loud coat running away from styrofoam monsters in the 1980s on the PPS at one in the morning than what I'm watching now. Did you see last night in Soho? No, not yet. tanks don't bother.

But, like, the weird-looking guy is Doctor Who, like, who's Doctor Who from... Matt Smith. Yeah. He is, like, the handsome, and it's like, that guy's handsome? Is that right? He's handsome within context.

But he's also, keep in mind that his sci-fi lineage does not end with Dr. Who. He was infamously Skynet, I believe, in Terminator Genesis. He was, like, the hologram manifestation movie of Skynet

and he also you may have seen this during the many different incarnations of of Rise of Skywalker before that instant classic that we got in theaters he was apparently

supposed to be like a young Palpatine clone I think was what he was supposed to do. Doctor Who came back somehow everybody cheers so he's got a real sapphire

I'm bummed about last night in Soho, though. Those will be pretty good. Third act problems, Greg. That's what they call in that movie. Classic third act problems. Oh, you're right from elite prospects. IPRinkside.com. EPRinkside.

That's right. Elias Pedersen, Rinkside. He's doing nothing. No Sean this week. If you couldn't tell with four minutes sci-fi talk off the top. It's like... It was a big, uh, Tom.

Baker fan. Oh, Sean's here. I remember who that is. He was a doctor who. Speaking of Elias Pedersen, the Vancouver Canucks, ooh. So it's funny, when Lambert and I were talking about when we should do the show this week,

we were both like, should we wait until they fire everybody? Surely they're going to do that thing that everybody's been saying for four years they should be doing. It hasn't happened as of yet. I think this is, like reading those comments that they came

out of their meeting, Aquilini and Jim Benning. It did seem like one of those, all right, let's see how this homestand goes, like they've got Colorado, and then I think they end with Chicago and have another game sandwich in between. But I read about this in my column this week. I am absolutely fascinated by the blame game in Vancouver and how everyone has just started whacking Jim Benning with their sticks until the candy falls out. And somehow Travis Green, who's got one season above a 500 points percentage as a head coach, has been able to get away Scott free, I think? Yeah, I mean.

It's kind of stunning. I really, part of that is, you know, like, he's not the guy, like, the chef isn't the guy who picks the ingredients in this case, you know what I mean? Like, who's turning a roster with this many duds into a winning team? Like, I do get that, obviously, but also, like, you. everybody's got to go. You know? Oh, yeah, it's total regime change.

And I'm not saying that Jim Benning, Jimetting is your classic three fuckups for every good deal kind of, kind of GM. And his fuckups have a bit of a, I don't, come on, you can't kill him for, like the J.T. Miller thing worked out in the short term. Yeah. You know, that was fine.

That was a bold move that worked out. I mean, the things that work out, like work out very, temporarily, you know? Like last year when, what's his name from, to Foley, he was like, oh, I want to be in Vancouver so bad. I love it here at Rocks. And they're like, you were really good last year.

How about you take $2 million below market value or whatever? He was like, oh, I don't want to do that. And they were like, well, look, we got to sign a useless defenseman with that money. So tough shit. We're Benning really fucked up. And I know it's hard to really kind of pinpoint it. Yeah, that's right. You know, the defensive situation on this team and the degradation of that blue line.

And then like the Tyler Myers's and Tucker Pullman's that he's thrown at the problem is just inexplicably bad. Like I don't even know what the fuck the plan is there or what the plan has been. And then obviously the other thing, although it was remedied in the Ekman-Larsen trade for whatever that was worth was, I mean, Throwing all that money at, like, bad fourth liners was still one of the most baffling things I've ever seen a GM do. Like, I could not understand it. Well, you're going to have to be more specific because he's continued to do that. The Jay Beagle, Anton Roussel thing in particular is one of the things that I look at

and just say to myself, what the fuck are you thinking like? You know, even if you made the rings in the room argument by getting Jay Beagle out of fresh off a Stanley Cup, you're just kind of like, what's going on here? Why are you giving this guy term? What is the thing that you see here? And like every, not every signing, but many of the signings he made, you were just like bad on day one. Not even like defensible in terms of, well, we think he's going to make a difference for us now. And then like four years from now, maybe he won't, but we'll find it.

Like Tyler Myers, anybody with a brain on day one was like terrible idea. This is going to go really badly. And wouldn't you know it? It has, you know? Friends, it has. Yeah, like, you can't say he hasn't improved the forward group, right, in the last couple of years, and continually has done so. And obviously they have some pretty good young players that they've been able to slot in.

But the issue with all of that, and I've said this forever, and I remember saying it about, like the early days of of Connor McDavid at Edmonton. It's like you can have all the good forwards you want. If you don't have a defenseman who can get them the puck, they're not going to do anything. And, you know, I haven't looked this up, but I wonder which guys like Pedersen is playing with all the time. You know, because if nobody,

if he has to go back and get the puck and then, you know, he can't generate anything because he can't even get into the offensive zone. Well, so last night, Elias Pedersen played with J.T. Miller or Brock Besser, his two primary linemen. No, I'm talking about defensemen, though. Oh, defenseman?

Oh, oh, who's playing? I'm sorry, you said who you said, so I couldn't tell you that. I simply don't have the wear with all. I just pulled it up. It says here Tucker Pullman and Oliver Ekman-Larsen, well, I've diagnosed the fucking problem, haven't I? Those are his two.

most common defensive partners, I guess you would say. And then the third one is Tyler Myers. There you go. It doesn't take a genius. And then the fourth one's Travis Hamannick, but that's only been like 25 minutes. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, those guys aren't going to be able to get Pedersen the puck because they're in their own end the whole time.

Yeah. So poorly, in the coaching versus kids. construction debate, what percentages do you apply to both as far as being the problem? Like 70-30, because here's the, like I meant to say this earlier about the coaching, is it seems like good players are getting worse over time, Betterson and shoes and that kind of, like, they were bad last year. They shouldn't be the case, you know? This should not be the case.

This should be getting better. And that, that to me, screams coaching. Like, you know, say what you want about Jim Bang. He got those guys through the door, you know? And they're not improving under Green. So that seems like a problem to me. The other problem, obviously, with Vancouver, and it is an epic problem this season.

My God, 60% on the penalty kill. 60%. Now, granted, woulda peg Jets not much better. Yeah, I mean, three power play goals given up to a McKinnon-Less Colorado team on Wednesday night. I tracked the stat in the column this week. It's pretty nuts. Their penalty kill so bad that they have given up a power play goal in 10 straight games.

Yeah. And they gave up two or more power play goals in eight of the ten. Yeah. That's fucking terrible. Correct. Somebody pointed out that they have already tied an NHL record of multiple four-game streaks allowing two power play goals in a game. Insane.

Every one of those four games. They've done that on two separate occasions. That's an NHL record. They're, what, 15 games into the season? 16, something like that? That's fucking remarkable. They're going to do it like six times this year. Yeah.

So good times there. What do you do with them? With who? With Vancouver. So if we fire the GM in season. Yeah. Who do you bring in? I don't think it mattered.

Like, it's just somebody. I'll be, let me, I'm sorry. I retract the question. Does it rhyme with Schmerell? No, no, no, no. Because, and this is why. Because if you're bringing in a new GM, you're saying, we're not ready to compete at the NHL level like we thought we were, and nobody outside of Vancouver thought they were. But, like, you know, we're not ready to compete for playoff contention or anything like that.

you know, they made the playoffs like one time, and it was fake playoffs, so it doesn't even really count. And you go, hey, look, I got a roster full of guys here. Problem is a lot of them are signed long term. You want to take any of them off our hands? Give me a call. Let's talk about this. Well, if you need a deconstructor, how about someone whose name rhymes with Schmorton, as

in Jeff Gorton, as in an available former Rangers GF, who I think was quite good there. Yeah, I mean, oh, man, if he can use his skill accidentally getting the number one or number two pick multiple years in a row, they're going to be in great shape. Come on. That's not fair. He had an amazing quick rebuild by his hands. Yeah, and how many of those first-round picks have not made the NHL because of, uh, organizational mismanagement.

I mean, well, Coco's frowning in the form. Is he? I thought they were just talking about him and Lafranier are playing bad. Caco scored the other nights and everything's fine. Oh, okay, great. Yeah.

Yeah. The Cacassas is happening. Yeah. So the thing for me is, obviously, they've traded away first round picks the last couple of years. Insane. ridiculous. Well, that's the thing about Benning that I think needs to be stressed here, is the desperation.

Yeah. Is someone on his not even eighth life, like his 8.7th life of his nine lives. Like, motherfucker has been so aggressive in making deals that he knows will hurt the team down the line because he doesn't give a shit if it hurts the team down the line because he's just trying to survive. Yeah. And, you know, that was the thing we all said about the Ekman-Larsen deal. It was like, you know, that contract blows.

And even if he's being pretty good this season, which he is, that contract absolutely blows. But it's not going to be Jim Benning's problem. Like, he needed a temporary fix to a massive problem, and he made a deal that's going to hurt whoever follows him. You know, much like trading away first-round picks is the same thing. So that's what happens when you get these GMs in survival mode. They start doing this dumb shit, which is probably why he shouldn't be. anywhere near the trade deadline, to be honest with you.

Right? Like, just get him out of there before this is more dumb shit. Right. And so to your point about Chiarelli, like, that's a guy who every time he had a high pick on his roster, like a guy who was picked quite high, you know, three, four, five years

earlier, he was like, what if I traded this guy for peanuts? What if I lost every trade of a major talent that I possibly could? And so, like you don't want a guy like that around Pedersen or whoever, Brock Besser. But, you know, I understand that even if you're tearing it down, you need guys who are making a bunch of money and who you can like market or whatever and kind of build around.

But like, call me up. Make me an offer for Pedersen. It's not working here. Now, listen, what if we kept around Benning? Okay. kick him upstairs, he's earned it. And instead, we fired Travis Green and hired the only guy that I would trust to turn around a team in the regular season, Bruce Brugge. What do you think?

I mean, again, like, you're just prolonging the inevitable. How far out of the playoff spot are they? Right. Well, now, the last time we talked about this, they needed like 103 point pace, so I imagine it's worse now. because the teams ahead of them keep winning and the Kuducks don't. Right. Right. So that's kind of an issue.

So let's see. To get them to 95 points, they need 83 points from their last. I'm doing some math. 65 games. Time to two. They need to play at a 105 point pace the rest of the season to get to 95 points. There you go. That's all.

Bruce is getting there, couldn't he? You know what? Bruce probably does play at like 105 points per 80 games pace. Maybe not with these particular guys. And the thing to say is that Thatcher Demko is really good. Yes. And he hasn't been good so far this year, but there's also, he's a classic guy of like, oh, yeah, he's just going to go 930 for 15 games and the Canucksal.

win 12 of them and everybody are doing, well, see, they're turning it around. And, you know, not to say a goal is not part of the team and driving performance or whatever, but, you know. Have you thought that maybe they just need to go from the sad-eyed grump to the big, round-faced happy man? And then that's the easy, that's just the fix. But it's not a fix because it's like, okay, this team miraculously gets into the playoffs. So if they make that coaching change later today. And this team miraculously gets into the playoffs. Fucking then what?

Out in the first round, maybe the second? Well, then they have to play in a game seven with Bruce Boudreau as their coach, and then it's all over. Yeah. You're going to really have to sweep them, maybe a gentleman sweep. You're just going to have to roll through like a fucking steamroller or else you're fucked. That's the Bruce Boudreau catch, ladies and gentlemen. He'll come in, he'll make you a regular season juggard up. But God forbid you face adversity in the...

the playoffs, it's just not going to work out for you. But that's the devil's bargain of hiring Bruce B. Drew. It really is. But yeah, I don't know, I don't know what anybody can do to fix this, right? Like, there's

just, it seems to me, and again, this is me saying this, so, you know, this is what I say about every team that's not in the top eight in the league, they should fucking blow it up. Everybody must go. Even Pedersen?

Even Quinn? Yeah. Yep. See you later. They're going to be like 27 by the time this team's any good. Oh, well, yeah. This is the other thing you always say, which is your fucking Logan's run thing. Yeah.

Well, specifically with Patterson, it's like, oh, he really seems to just be pushing this off until he's UFA eligible. And to a lesser extent, the same as true of Hughes. Is he still going to be the next Scretzky, Peterson? Or are we off that now? I think we might be moving away from that. All right. But it definitely is a thing. Like Horvatt, see you later.

Bye-bye, you know. You know I love this idea because it means that we can unite the Hughes Tri-Force in Jersey. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've got to figure out a way to pay for it if you're New Jersey. But I think this makes a lot of sense. Yeah, like I say, I just, I look at this team and I go, when are they going to be good again? And it's like, well, they need to start getting picks and prospects together ASAP, which, you know, that is supposed to be Benning's whole deal. Forte.

You know? Yeah. But you can't. He's a classic guy of like, oh, they let a guy who shouldn't be in the big chair and should only be in charge of drafting and development. Oh, a real Tim Murray type. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there is a third option, which is for Vancouver fans to just stick your heads into the covers and hope it all works out.

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when you're coming home to open up a new arena I can tell you here on the ground in NYC not live right now for this place opening up I think there will be like when people get to see it I mean the UBS arena is awesome looking

there's going to be like a lot of coverage obviously in its first weekend of operation but coming back home with a 462 points percentage you have your 13 road games and looking very uncharacteristic if you're the islanders like 17th and goals against as a team when you are the islanders uh very disconcerting and and now some injuries you're hitting them and i got to tell you this is going to shock you i'm a little nervous about my stanley cup pick a little nervous right now about the islanders

understandably so i would say but you know the the thing that everybody has always said about this Islanders group is like, you know what? They're going to get into the second round minimum every single year. After that, they're probably not going to do very much. They don't have a ton of the kind of high-end skill that you need to, you know, be really competitive with the truly elite teams in the league. Someone's underrating Zach Parize. Yeah, I think you're right.

I am. But, like, to your point, their last four games, all of which they've lost, they've allowed five goals, four goals, four goals, six goals. You know, and it's just not good enough. And I do think that obviously when you start 13 games all in a row on the road, that is not going to set you up for success, certainly. And then the other thing it means is out of their last like 70 games, like 40 you're going to be at home.

I feel like, you know, going by the Greg Wosinski model of having a new arena is worth 15 wins. It's worth at least 15 wins of new arena. And that's backed up by science. But all those home games also give them the opportunity to do what they're probably going to have to do, which is to reel off like 10 street games at the point, right? And then start climbing up the standings again. They're only six out right now of a playoff spot, but it feels like it should be 60.

You don't want to get into the business of only six points out. You know, like... Right, I can fully understand that. You'd rather be the flyers at this point. Yeah. Okay, they're nine points out. But like San Jose is quote unquote, only four points out on Calgary. And nobody's like, and it's all going to turn around for the sharks.

You know, the sharks keep winning these games that are like really kind of like stunning that they've won these games. Like they won in Minnesota the other night. I think didn't they have a win at Calgary? Yeah, they had a win at Calgary during this trip too. They are a team that can look really, really bad like they did against the Jets and the Appalanch, and then look like they come out of a fucking place they probably shouldn't come out of a win with with a win. Right. And that probably over the course of a season gives you roughly a 500 record, which isn't going to do anything for you in the...

It doesn't. No, it doesn't. In the NHL. Right. Right. So, but like, you know, to your point about, oh, the Islanders and the, you know, are going to need to reel off points in like 15 straight games. That's what they do.

Like that historically under Barry Trots is they have like a 17 point point streak. And, you know, 13 of those are, or 17 game point streak. And 13 of those are wins. And you're like, okay, they have something here. And then the entire rest of the season is like, yeah, we're going to win two and lose three. You know? And, you know, I think counting on, yeah, we're going to get points. in 17 out of 19 games or whatever.

I don't know that that's a super reliable way to go about your business, but also like, I, you know, am I going to write this team off right now? No, I can't do that in good conscience either. Can I ask you a general question? Yes, you can. Taking Matt Barzell off the table. Mm-hmm. I'm genuinely curious because of who I'm talking to.

Who's your favorite Islander? Who's your favorite Islander? Oh, okay, hold on. taking Barzel and Charra off the table. Fuck. Who's your favorite Islander? I had such an easy answer here. Because I know you.

I know we're going to go with it. So I don't want to set it up on a T for you. Who's your favorite Islander? Taking those two on the table. Pelic, I guess, right? Like, he rocks. He's fucking so good. Not having a great year so far.

But he's good. Yeah. See, that's my problem, too. My favorite Islander, besides those two is Andrews Lee also not having a good year. Yeah, Anderson. He's actually also a fun. Like, they have players that are fun, and I like, I like Kyle Paul Mary.

I like even Anthony Bovillier, I like. And he's actually been pretty good for them. But, like, are we saying like as in I enjoy watching them? Or like as in, this is a guy who I'm going, he's going to help them deep into the playoffs. No, so what you enjoy. A guy that you like. You know, we spoke so much time in this industry. talking about the players that are good and the players that are bad.

What about the players you just fucking like? We just like these guys. I like watching, I like Tyler Stagan. I don't know if he's good or bad at this point in his career. I just like him. He's fun. I'm leading a certain way. Okay, right.

But like, Andrews Lee has got four goals and 12 games with no assists, which is incredible because that's what Andrews Lee does all the fucking time. Yeah, I was just going to say, like, you just described any 12-game stretch of Andrewsley's career to me. Anders Lee is like an NHL, like, EA Sports 1990s NHL game glitch. He always ends up with like 70 goals and no assists. Yeah, he's going for the fire every year. Absolutely. I love that about him.

He's great. I kind of like Clutterbuck. I got to be honest to you. I know that we're not supposed to like Clutterbuck or anything that has to do with that fourth line. I kind of like him. I've always kind of liked him. It's fun. For me.

I know that. I know that. I know that. Do you want to know why? Because. why? For how many years was it, oh, the number of hits this guy? And like, anytime he looks at a player, either the Wilder, the Islanders are like, it's another big hit for Cal Clutterbuck. And it's like, you can't do this. You can't, you can't fucking just say that like a guy gets a hit because he makes

like vague contact with the player. Well, so what was your opinion of that? Because we wrote about Thedapuck Teddy. For those who don't know, Cal Clutterbuck, used to get like 10 hits added to his ledger every game in like Minnesota. Great. But the official scores. Like he would end the season with like a thousand hits or some shit just because of how they were fudging the numbers. Yeah.

Do you think, do you think that was a function of like, was it intentional in trying to pump Calderbuck's numbers? Or was it a situation where they're not really paying attention? They heard someone get hit. They see Clutterbuck. They're like, I just assume it's him. I think it Like I said

I think it's Well he made contact with the player And it's a guy who doesn't score a lot Must have been a hit Right I'm looking at this One two three Four

Cal Calcutter Buck at the beginning of his career Had four seasons Where he was credited with At least 300 hits And like by definition In the NHL a hit is supposed to be like you made body contact with the guy and separated him from the puck, which I guess is distinct from a takeaway.

And it's like, you know what? I got to say, I kind of don't believe he separated a guy from the puck 356 times in 2008-09. He certainly didn't. And is Cal Quutterbuck personally responsible for the eventual awakening in the larger hockey world that hits are bad because it means that you don't have the puck. Was he the reason for that? When people were putting him over as being like,

oh, clutter bucks redefined in the game, what a battering ram. They're like, actually. And like one person looked at it was like, wait a second, this guy sticks. And by the way, the reason he didn't have more 300 hit seasons is he gets hurt all the time. So, like, he had 288 and 74 games. Something tells me that in the last eight games, games there, he might have gotten the extra 12. The next year, he had 155 and 42 games.

You know, he had he had 270 and 73 games. Like, he would have hit 300 hits. Yeah. Looks like nine seasons in a row if he had stayed healthy. Ten? Jesus. I love it. That's great.

A couple more around the league type topics. Hey, that Manaheim Ducks, baby. look what they're doing. How about that? Yeah. Troy Terry, your boy. Troy Terry lighting up the world. Zegris now is getting going to.

Do you think they're legit? Do you think they stick around? No. I don't. Okay. Well, listen, their underlying members are kind of terrible. I just say terrible. Underwhelming.

Underwhelming compared to their success in the standings, right? So there's a little bit of concern there, I think. There's sub-50% at five-on-five. They certainly are. the point of contention with them. But their special teams are pretty good. The issue is this for me. They have scored, let's see here, 15 power play goals on 54 opportunities in 17 games.

I don't think that's a number they can keep up, right? Like, they're not going to run 28% on the power play all year. Right. And their P.K has only allowed six goals. I don't know that that's particularly sustainable either. But, like, is John Gibson John Gibson again? Fucking maybe. He could be, you know?

So, I mean, you know. I hope that they stay up there. I think it'd be fun. Well, there are tops in the division right now. Am I right about this? By point, by total points. Okay. There's second division by points percentage.

Mm-hmm. I don't, you know, I don't know. I don't buy that with them. They're one of one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight teams in the league to have ten wins already. You know, and the other ones are Edmonton, Minnesota, Florida, Toronto. We've got to talk about the Leafs in a minute. Do we? I mean, Sean's not here.

That's true. What did you want to say about the Leafs? They're really fucking good all of a sudden. They started so slow. And then Marner came alive and they were like, oh, yeah, we're going to win every game. Not bye. See you later. Yeah.

That's what happened this week, Nashville went there, and I saw a lot of people being like, this is a good spot from Nashville. You know, UC Soros can start. I'm like, do you guys understand

what the Leafs are doing right now at Home Ice? Like, they're really fucking good. They've kind of gotten into a groove. Which again, like, we always talk about this, man. The fucking mania of the Toronto media and fan base,

like, we're less than a month from, from like total regime change in Toronto, right? Like, that was less than a month ago where everybody was like, you gotta fucking get rid of everybody. Yeah.

They suck. Well, so I think part of the reason for that is they played several pretty good teams at the beginning of the year. Yeah. Pittsburgh, Carolina, San Jose, the Rangers. Like, these are all pretty good teams at a minimum. And then they played Chicago on the road.

And then they had like seven out of nine. nine games or something like that at home. Right. So, and one of those road games was against the Sabres. So, like, these are games they should be winning, but, like, I can't knock them for winning games they should be winning, you know. But they're good. The other two teams that I want to talk about, the other two teams I want to talk about,

Washington's been doing some fucking work, man. Like, this is two good wins on the, or, I'm sorry, like, the, the, the, win in in LA last night was really interesting in the sense of it being The Garned Hathaway game, he went off. Yeah, the Garned Hathaway game. It was a very tightly contested game. It was a super boring game, and it was one of those games where you're like,

oh, they can win these, too, can't they? And I was impressed by that win. The other team I want to talk about was Carolina, 12 and 2. Like the quietest 12 and 2 maybe in hockey, in the sense of like they're just a fucking steamroller, and we're not really like giving them the props they deserve. but Rod Rendemore unloaded the plane from a luggage. Did you see that this week?

I did. And one of the teams they lost, too, the only team that has beaten them by multiple goals is the Florida Panthers who are fucking unbelievable. Right. So, yeah, like they have one iffy loss, and that's at Philadelphia, right? And even then, it's like, yeah, sometimes you're going to lose a two-one game, you know, where you want for me. But they're on a big West Coast road trip right now, so that'll be interesting. Does Rodbreden Amour get the Jack Adams by virtue of unloading the plane of its luggage? Doesn't hurt.

He won it last year, right? I'm not wrong about that. I think he did, didn't he? I'm pretty sure. I don't give that to the awards. I don't pay attention to it. No, they'll pick somebody new. Who would it be?

I mean, obviously it's going to be Derek King because the Blackhawks are going to go undefeated the rest of the way. I mean, right now, how is it not Dallas Aiken's? Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. Again, they're not good at five-on-five, but their special teams are good and not just in terms of like the pucks going in the net or staying out when they're killing penalties. They're drawing a fair number of power play opportunities. You know, like that's a thing that's going to set you up for success. And, you know, nobody thought they were going to be good this year.

Everybody thought next year was the year everybody's going to take a step. And, you know, again, how ageless do we think Ryan Getslaff really is? Not this ageless. Less than that ageless? Yeah. But, like, they're, to your point, they're getting contributions from a number of younger guys. I guess Troy Terrier's not that young anymore. But, no, I still, I still consider him part of the youth movement there.

Maybe comparatively to guys like Henrique and Getslath, but I mean, he might be in that mid-range of guys. Yeah, I just looked. He's 24. So. Yeah. So he's still young. Young-ish. That doesn't put him on the Ryan Lambert kill floor yet.

Yeah. Two more years. I'm going to start tapping my watch. Like, you know. Okay. All right. This is never an easy transition, so we'll just get to it. Today's episode of Puck's sleep was sponsored by BetterHelp.

Now, BetterHelp. Best one yet. Well, I just, I don't like to be, like, flip about this one because it's an important one. It's about getting therapy and getting help. BetterHelp is online therapy. You can check them out at BetterHelp.com slash puck. Big advocates for therapy, big advocates for talking it out, big advocates for getting help if you need it. and Lord knows for the last year

a lot of us could probably use it with all the shit we've all been through the best way to think about therapy is through some of these analogies, right? Like you get your car tuned up to prevent bigger issues down the road you go to the gym to maintain your physical wellness and then even like around the house

you do chores to avoid making your house a giant mess you do chores right? Do you take or do you wait until? Do you wait until your house gets to critical mass before you actually clean anything? Or do you do little chores here and there? I'll tell you where I really have a problem with that is with laundry. Ooh, I will let the laundry pile up. I do too, but we just got smaller hamper, so I don't think I'm going to have that same luxury.

I will tell you that I try to keep the kitchen clean. That's like my duty. But as far as like the whole house, the catalyst is usually Ruby waking up on a Saturday morning. And then just becoming a whirling dervish of cleaning. Yeah. And then I have to kind of like follow suit. She's like the catalyst. In all those cases, you're helping yourself to help yourself down the line.

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I mentioned the Kings before against the Capitals. Oh, they bought back those shiny and chrome helmets last night with their spiffy new quasi-Gretsky era jerseys. So we got two shiny helmet teams. We got the kings. We got the Golden Knights. were your thoughts on Chrome Dome helmets? Chrome Dome, of course, being the snide nickname

given to Captain Fasma in the Star Wars sequel trilogy as well now that I think about it. Yeah, that sucked. But you know what? Do something fun with your helmets. Why not? You know, the fact that they're both in the Pacific Division, every time they play each other,

they should both wear their shiny helmets, right? Like, that's one. You know, I don't know that they necessarily go with the white jerseys. They wore the whites last night, right? Yeah, that was their new spiffy one. It's like the Gretsky era logo on a white jersey. Again, like, it's hard for me to really judge that jersey. That's all.

I think it would look better with the black, too. But also that jersey last night pales in comparison to the reverse retro one. Like, it's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, they're a team that I think their current jerseys stink, like the L.A. Shield ones, and they should go back to a classic look. Where's that forum blue again? Oh, hell yeah. That's what I'm talking about. Love the forum blue. Oh, the best.

Yes. Speaking of the forum, or L.A. arenas. This is the thing we don't have to talk about. We don't have to. acknowledge in any way. I know you don't want to acknowledge it, but it affects hockey. It affects hockey that all of a sudden we were, many of us went to bed and then woke up and found out that Staples Center is now the crypto.com arena. Which is just absolutely fucking stunning. It's absolutely fucking stunning. It's stunning. When you go to the movies these days, um, um, I don't know if you are aware of this thing. There is a commercial where Matt Damon is like, fortune favors the bold.

And there are many over the years who have tried and failed. And it's like there's a guy in old-timey like conquistador garb. And there's, you know, like astronauts taking off in a rocket ship and that kind of thing. And at the end of it, it's like, and that's why crypto is good. And it's like, what, dude? I don't understand The first time my girlfriend saw it I was like

I want you to watch all of this And right when Matt Damon Steps out and reveals that he is on a space station orbiting the planet Earth I want you to tell me what you think this is an ad for And she didn't get it Because it's an incomprehensible It feels like it should be like

You know NASA or STEM learning for young kids or something, right? Like, it's supposed to be aspirational and inspirational, and it's instead about cryptocurrency. Yeah, it's about trying to get you to cook the planet just a little bit more so you can get your slice of the pie, your freaking dogg coin or whatever the fuck. Crypto.com, baby. We don't need to keep saying it. Well, I mean, I don't think that we should.

I mean, maybe we should say it a bit. Speaking a bit, today's episode of PugSoup is sponsored by crypto.com. Oh, no, no. Honestly, if someone did that to your arena, wouldn't you just call it the crypt? Like, how cool is that? No, all these arena nicknames you come up with are stupid. Everyone sucks.

Nobody does those kinds of things. Like, nobody's going to call UBS Arena like whatever the fuck. You know. Well, hold on. That's not true because MCI Center in D.C. was the phone booth. But I guess maybe that was fan-named. To who, though? To the fans.

Is that true? The fans called it that. Yeah, the phone booth. The Prudential Center is definitely the Rock. Right. Yeah, I guess that's true. But that's at least like in the uver of what the sponsor is going for, right? Like, you know, Prudential, the Rock, that kind of thing.

Right. But like growing up around here, like nobody, nobody, like they tried to get people to call Gillette the Razor. And that didn't fucking catch on. Everybody calls it Gillette Stadium. Hold on. They tried to get the giant fucking Patriots Stadium called. The Razor? Well, no.

They were like, oh, it's Gillette Stadium. You know, the Razor, and people were like, I reject the premise of this one. Yeah. That's terrible. That's just as bad as the crypt. Yeah. No. I think the thing is, is that, like, the fan names for these places are infinitely better than whatever the corporate branding is going to be.

Like, I don't think First Union Bank ever really thought the FU Center was going to be what Philly fans came up with. But there it was for a long time. That's just misreading the room, right? Like, you know, like Billy people are coming up with that? Wanted to touch on penalties for a second? Finally, you get to talk about this. This section, I know, listen, we already hit on one of the big, bold stances people have taken this week, which is Jim Benning's got to go. He's got to get out of there.

Get out of here, Jim. Here are the reasons Jim Benning's not good. And then we're going to do the other one that has been just like a very, very bold and controversial. controversial topic, which is they should definitely call the rulebook. McDavid needs more penalties, call than them. I'm like, oh, wow, whoa, calm down. He's the reason all this started up again. Yeah, I mean, his whole thing with McDavid is about like they're the black, he needs,

he thinks they need to play defense more, but he also called Big David a whiner, I guess, right, talking about penalties too much or some such. Yeah, and like, first of all, when, you know, like Carr McDavid on ice during the playoffs, his team outscores the opponent a fair bit. And, you know, he's averaging, what, like two points a game or something, career in the playoffs. And, you know, like, they're not winning. They have, like, two postseason wins in the McDavid era. And we're supposed to be like, this stinks, this is bad.

And it's like, well, you know, what do you want them to do? Right. Let's put, okay. How about this, Greg? I just looked it up. Yes. This is fucking hilarious. The Oilers, with Carra McDavid on the ice,

in 21 games at 5 on 5, have outscored opponents 18 to 17. Hmm. And that is mostly because they, like, they've, been unlucky. They're plus three on expected goals, but only plus one on regular goals. And it's like, do I think this is a Connor McDavid problem, or do I think this is a Mike Smith and darnel nerd? You know, like, I don't think that was like, but that was that was towards

this point is that as a team, they have to be better defensively. And I agree with them. Like, you can't, they blew a lead against the blues the other night. That'd be inexcusable in the playoffs. They scored their way out of the problem, but you can't, you got to be better defensively. What do you think their plus minus at five on five is with McDavid off the ice? That's the fucking problem. That's the fucking problem. And again, like, this was the thing that I said about the Oilers, you know, going into the season where they're like, oh, we're going to put Zach Hyman with either Nugent Hopkins or McDavid, and depending on how they

used, rice idle, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no, you put Hyman on the third line, and then that's another line that actually outscores the opponent. You don't need to boost McDavid's on-ice goals four percentage by another two percent. You need to get one line when he's off the ice north of 45. It's not a fucking, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out. I wanted to read a section from Elliot Freepin's column this week, because it's an adventure, but it also applies to what we're talking about. As for Connor McDavid, there's a concern about in arena attendance and not just in hockey. I don't think we really understand yet where this is going, but it's clear that fans are not returning in person at the anticipated

level. Now, if I were to stop there, what would your answer be as far as like why fans aren't returning at anticipated levels to NHL aren't? yet. Ticket prices. I'm happy you said ticket prices because I think that hockey writers that get into games for free and have so for years, I'm not singling out Elliot, I think this goes to anybody. Don't understand how much it costs to go to see a fucking hockey game. I'm happy that you said that

because that is a huge reason why a lot of people don't go to games, especially in like October and November. They kind of want to like go to the more important games later in the season. That's when they plague on the devils for the entire of my life is that people don't go to games in October or November, but go to the games in December and go to the games in January, when they know if the team's good and when they want to see certain teams coming to town. They're not coming to see Ottawa. They don't give a shit about Ottawa. They want to see Philly and the Rangers. So yes, ticket prices are a huge deal.

Now, specific to not returning in person at the anticipated level, I would probably also say, I don't know, the global pandemic would be another reason why people are still maybe hesitant to go to a gathering of many, many people. Maybe they've been impacted economically by it. You know, I have to believe that this is the first time we're getting a lot of fans back in a lot of places. And maybe that's why you see some empty seats here and there. Right. Is the global pandemic? I wonder, like, is NBA attendance similarly dropping off? Well, he said not just in hockey, so I would assume that's the case. But, I mean, I know in hockey that there's a certainly been a dip.

Although, listen, again, not to single out anybody, but if you're writing about attendance in the NHL and you don't have the words tickets distributed in your story somewhere, I don't think you're really painting the full picture. But anyways. Elliot, during the 2005-2006 lockout, the NHL took a long look at its on-ice product, a move that wasn't universally praised at the time, but history judges very favorably. We're both around then, right? I feel like it was pretty well received, wasn't it?

Oh, I don't know about that. I mean, like, what he's talking about for those who don't know is there were about 15 power plays a game back in 05-06. And I think that you don't want to get into a situation where you have any penalties. I completely agree. And I think that even doubt, if he's talking about that, he's right. If he's talking about, like, taking out the red line, I think people were pretty excited to see what the game was going to look like. I think the two things that people

would like about the Shanahan like workshopping of the league was the trapezoid and all the power plays that we had about the obstruction like cracked down. Wasn't Shannon's still playing at that? He was, but he was the guy that ran pivot on let's create some ideas to change the game. So I guess he's right.

Universally praised at the time. It's probably accurate. I think McDavid deserves many, many more calls against him than he gets. Absolutely agree. He's a mugging victim every night. Sure. The question I'd be asking if I was the NHL is this. If he want to get more people into the building, are we going to have to give our fans reason to believe star talents will be given more of an opportunity to succeed? I know it's sacrilege, but if I was concerned about the business, I'd be sure, I'd be making sure this was a talking point. How do you react to that? Um, you know, you know,

I don't think people are like, you know what, carm McDavid just isn't getting enough fucking calls. This is bullshit I'm staying home. I'm kind of torn on it because I do think that it's important to give your star players a chance to succeed. But I think ultimately to go back to what we were talking about previously in this conversation, I don't think it's going to be at five on five if you call the rulebook to the rule book. Or if you call all these penalties, you know,

when McDavid's being fouled on a drive in the net, right? like you're going to just end up with a bunch of power plays, which will give you the opportunity to see star players. Yeah, you want to tell David Cook, give him an extra four. Yeah, you're going to see McDavid Cook, but it's just going to be on the power play. To me, to me, like the visceral thrill of a McDavid or any of these players that get, you know,

clutched and grabbed and held and then don't get a penalty call out of it, is to see what they do at five on five in the flow of the play. Like, kind of McDavid's greatest goals are not standing in one place in the power play. Conopry's greatest goal is breaking down four guys in front of them at five-on-five. Yeah, but this gets into the thing of like, is high-scoring hockey inherently more entertaining hockey? I completely agree. It's always a bit about flow, my friend. It's more about flow than it is about the goals. But, I mean, look, and Elliot's somebody who's really good at knowing the big picture. The big picture here, not to make you score him again, but like the more goals you have,

the better it's going to be for gamblers. I mean, that's always been one of the things with hockey is the fact that there isn't a lot of scoring events. And you look at the sports in which there are a high number of scoring events, they tend to attract more people and get more action. So the idea that you're going to try to find ways to increase offense now, I think, is completely tied to the drive from the NHL to increase interest in the sport through wagering. So, you know. No. I mean, no. No, totally.

Totally. Totally it is. Well, yeah, again, you say that because you were a gambling addict. You are betting on every single night. I'm not an addict. I'm not an addict. I don't bet on games every single night. I don't have legalized sports wagering in my state. Oh, yeah.

That's true. It's coming. Yeah, but it certainly is. Then you'll be a gambling addict. Then you'll be an addict. No, but you can't divorce the idea that even if you want to take the wagering thing out of it, the idea that more higher scores will, attract casual fans.

I don't know that that's true. Like, I mean, I guess the largest spike in fandom in my lifetime was when like Gretzky was on the Kings, right? But also,

that is a guy who singularly reshaped the game, and also there were like 12 teams in the fucking league. So, you know, I don't know, I, I don't know how at some point you can grow the pie without also saying, you know, it's just a matter of we put teams in more cities.

Here's the thing about the McDavid bit when I get to. I genuinely wish that he got more penalties called on him, you know, like he drew more penalties rather. But I genuinely don't, I'm not really concerned about a penalty. being drawn by Connor McDavid on a Tuesday in November, I'm very concerned about a penalty being drawn by Connerick David in the playoffs. Like, if you want to talk about where star talents should be given more of an opportunity to succeed, it's in the postseason. It's when people give a shit.

It's not even that they should be given more of an opportunity to succeed. It's that they should be given the same opportunities as guys who stink to draw penalties. that's that's the big issue you know in the regular season and in the postseason who who but in the post season in the postseason even those guys don't get calls that's the problem it just like don't call penalties like again i i come back i understand it's really it's a devil's bargain for hockey fans right like we love the intensity of the playoffs we love the war of attrition in overtime the whole thing but the idea that there isn't when you have two exhausted teams playing against each other, the idea that there is in a like four-over-time playoff game, two penalties in that stretch is insane.

Yeah, but to my point, here are the top five guys in penalties drawn in the playoffs over the last five seasons. Blake Coleman, Nikita Kuturob, Braden Point, Jonathan Marcia, so Nathan McKinnon. But like, again, should Blake Colerner? woman be at the top of that fucking list? He's an aggressive player. I don't know. I guess, man. But like Brock Nelson.

Yeah, this is just, I guess, a list of guys who have played a lot of playoff games at this point. But like, I feel like in the regular season, yeah, it sucks that McDavid doesn't draw more penalties. But I also think that we see a lot of really cool shit coming from Conard McDavid, Leon Dryson, a lot of star players in regular season. It's when it counts. And then, and then all of a sudden, Austin Matthews goes from a guy. who scores at a 50 goal pace to, you know, someone who doesn't put the puck in the net.

And every other offensive player, you know, sees their points for game average, just drop commiserate with what's in the regular season. And there's a reason for it. And the reason is that the game is officiated completely differently in the playoffs. And it's because, again, it's because the NHL thinks that's a better product. Hasn't drawn a PEMS is a better product. Connick David hasn't drawn a minor in the postseason. That's insane.

That's fucking ridiculous. Right. So what the fuck? Like, you know, you don't, again, like, you don't need to necessarily completely reshape the way the game is called. You just need to call the rulebook four stars like you do for, like, fucking Kyler Yamamoto, right? Exactly. So, again, I don't ring my hands over what's happening in the regular season with officiating. It's a long season.

I understand there people want the full rule book called. I don't think that's realistic. I do think that we're, you know where I want to call? I want it called on scoring plays. That's where I want to call. And it's never called in scoring plays in this league in regular postseason. I don't think that's true. Like, on scoring plays only, like, you, because how many scoring plays get broken up

because the guy gets mugged in the neutral zone. And it could have been a scoring play, except it wasn't. instead. Right. But you know it's not realistic to say call the entire, like call every penalty, right? Yeah, like, because then you get into the thing, you know, on every single past play in the NFL, you're 14 penalty. That's right.

I know that. I know that. But then you're going to be right back into the problem that we had in 0506, which is that every game is 12 power plays. And people are going to be like, good, they'll learn. Like, no, they fucking won't. Hockey is a game of illegal, illegal acts to try to

subterfuge your fucking opponent. Like, it's never going to go away. Even if you have power plays up the wazoo during the game, it's not going to go away. Right. And to illustrate that point, there's the fact that they, you know, they kept calling a lot of penalties even into the first year or the, like, deep into the first year. The second, say. Of the lockout year, the post-lockout year. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, they kept calling penalties deep into that season. And then the next summer, they were like, hmm, we shouldn't do that anymore. That's, right, right, because the game was, wasn't watchable. So my big thing with, there was this debate that we've seen this week of like, call the penalties, but, but call the, you're absolutely right, Lambert. Call it like you call it in the regular season in the playoffs. And then also give the fucking stars some benefit in the doubt in the playoffs too. I'm fine with that.

They've earned the calls. Like, fuck it. Like, if you're a big thing, as it is for Elliott here, is, you know, worrying about stars being able to show their town. and what that means for attendance, I think it matters a fucking ton more on the biggest stage of your season to have your stars be stars than it is to make sure Connor McDavid gets a hooking call

on a Tuesday night in November. But again, I say this all the time. Once you get into the playoffs, the problem is people only give a shit about their team and they don't give a shit about the whole league. Now, maybe you say that changes. That's what I'm saying. And that's important point.

Like, you're absolutely right. But maybe that's how we get people to give a shit more, is if they know that if they watch a Connemad David game, he can put up four points at any time versus hoping he gets a point because it's going to be a two-one game because there are no fucking power place. Yeah. Again, like, I think everybody is in agreement that there is a problem here, unless you're John Tortorella, I guess. But how you deal with that is the issue. And I don't know that there's a single good answer. I don't know if there is either because the other part of this, like I said, off the top is like, the playoffs are great. Like the playoffs are the playoffs are kind of an ain't broke, don't fix it kind of scenario.

But that's the reason for that is that we go in knowing every game is 2-1 and you're like, oh, I can't wait. Maybe there's going to be a 3-2 game tonight. You know, like there. And the other thing is. the John Boyce tweet of like the playoffs overtime is fucking insane. It's fucking insane. Right. So if we take, we don't want to lose that.

And there are parts of that we don't want to lose. We love the idea of being a war of attrition. We love the idea of there being a one-nothing game seven. Right? Like, fuck, that's exciting as shit. But I don't like the idea of it being a war of attrition because then you're like, oh, it actually rocks that the Canadians, uh, two of their first three opponents in the playoffs last year didn't have a number one center

for the majority of the series. That's actually cool. I love that. No, that sucks. No, but, and then the other thing, too, is, like, you know, why are, why do teams get to the playoffs? They get to the playoffs on the strength of their 5-on-5 play, but also because on the strength of their special teams play. And, like, the idea that all of a sudden, you know,

two-thirds of the game for teams are non-factors because they're never utilized in key situations is crazy. Yeah. Like, what's the sense of the oilers being, like, rolling out a 30% clip in the regular season if you're not going to get a power play to win a game in an overtime. Right. In the playoffs. Right. I wonder,

what did they run at in the postseason the last few years? Do we know? Doilers? Yeah, their power play percentage. This seems like one of those few things you can look up easily on NHL.com. Well, I'm going to go to NHL.com, so that's kind of the problem here. But let's see here. Let's go back a few years.

here, filter. Are looking for unblocked shot attempts? Shats? USATs. Let's go. USATs or what are we looking for? Okay, here. Summary. The Oilers Power Play rolls in eight play

games since 2018 rolls at 25%. Yeah. That's good. I mean... In the same span of the regular season, 25%. Yeah. I guess the question is, how much? much do they, oh, it says here their penalty kill over that time is 75%. That's not good. That's not

going to win you a lot of games. Power play opportunities per game. Yeah. Okay. In the regular season during that span, 209 games, 2.85. And then in 3.5 and 8 playoff games. I mean, the sample sizes are very commiserate, so obviously that's why the stats important. Yeah. That is the other thing to say is they played eight fucking playoff game. That's really kind of the issue, isn't it? Listen, I want to watch a playoff hockey that's super exciting. That's not

clutch and grab. It's got power plays. It allows the stars you doing star things. I like to see hockey played by the seat of its pants. And speaking of the seat of your pants, today's episode of Puck Toom is sponsored by Mack Welton. Lambert, you're busy guy. Stop thinking about what to wear and just embrace the radically

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Three games postponed for the senators, triggering the possibility, Lambert, that the NHL will do what you believe they will do, which is fine any excuse possible to bag out of the Beijing Olympics. Um, not good news to see games being postponed. Um, but, uh, hopefully it's a, it's a, you know, it must have been really bad for them to, uh,

postpone the games because the sharks had like seven people. including their coach. And they kept playing. Yeah. So who knows with that? But the, yes. The thing they mentioned before they postponed all these games, like, you know, a few days before was they probably would have done it a little bit like with even earlier games in the season, except like they only played the, like the Kings were only coming out east once. and so, you know, they had to play that game,

and it's like, oh, that's like not a good reason to play that game. You know, I feel like the Kings definitely at least come to, like, Nashville again, you know? So, but anyway, point is, like, they should have had more games postponed than they have, and they probably should have postponed those Sharks games, too. But early in the season, I watched. wonder how much of an appetite there is just because it's like, if we get behind the eight ball now and set this like, this standard for if you quote unquote only have seven guys in your coach out, you know, we can't be postponing all those games for you.

Right, right. We got, we got to get through 82 plus the playoffs before July or whatever. Okay. If I was going to be really conspiratorial, I would say that they're not postponing Sharks games was a punishment for still having Amanda can under contract. Wow. If I was going to get really conspirator. Now, see, the thing, the other thing you said about, like, I think they're looking for any excuse possible to knock.

I think that's true, but only because, like, but it's interesting, I guess, because if they get hockey to catch on in China, it's worth like $8 billion probably, right? Right. Which brings us to our next topic, actually. which is that despite kind of calming fears about this scenario at their recent international meeting, it appears the International Ice Hockey Federation is still considering whether or not China will participate in their own men's hockey tournament. Now, for those who don't know, China is going back to the Turin Olympics, they established an informal rule that the host nation would get a team in the main. men's hockey tournament, right?

That's an informal rule? Informal rule. Huh. Okay. It's not like on the books or anything, but it's kind of like to figure it was on the books. Well, even if it was on the books are off the, I mean, even if it's on the books, they can obviously get around it because they're talking about the idea of China not being in its own Olympics.

So where we are with this is that the Chinese men's national hockey team, as one would expect is fucking terrible in comparison to the hockey rich hockey power nations that populate the Olympic Games. Furthering the problem for the Chinese men's national team is that they are in a group with Germany, a growing hockey power, pretty good team. Oh, and then a little duo Canada and the United States. That's right. Now, the other thing you should know about this tournament is that goal differential matters.

So the idea that teams of professional players from the National Hockey League in Canada and the U.S. In an effort to ensure a tiebreaker won't just like absolutely demolish China with as many goals as possible is very much in consideration. So what's going to happen is that the HHF at this meeting and they kind of indicated, sure, China is going to be in their own Olympics. But we're going to kind of just keep our eye on it for the next month and check out these Red Star games and the KHL where a lot of the national teams players are playing and kind of just see where things are. Yeah. So, Kulun and Red Star, like, their KHL team, and they do have multiple Chinese nationals on the team. But most of the rest of the team, I'm looking at their Wikipedia page now, plays for teams that don't have Wikipedia pages. Which, so that to me seems like it would be bad.

And the other thing is they are, a lot of these guys are, like, they play for, Koon Loon Red Star is like minor league team. Correct. In the VHL. And so, like, Koonloon Red Star, I believe is, like, you know, they're not even a particularly good. They're very bad. Yeah. KHL team.

And so, like, for a good chunk of their roster to be, you know, below that level is, you know, I guess the point is, if they play in the Olympics, they're going to lose every game 500 to negative three. Pretty much. And, like, is that a good way to. grow the game. Grow the game in your country. I would say definitely not. Maybe, but maybe also, like, you know, we just got through talking about seeing high-end talent being, give it a chance to shine.

I mean, if it's kind of McDavid slicing through a bunch of pylons for highlight real goals, like, isn't that exciting? No, I think that if it's your country, you're like, if it's your pylons. This fucking sucks. this really stinks whereas you know if they don't play I think everybody will go

well sure we I've never even seen ice hockey so that makes a lot of sense to me and you're like oh it's fun that like you know Connor McDavid is slicing up the Norwegian team instead of ours

Norway is the first team in right like if that's that I was going to say so it's like around November 25th if they're going to make a final call on whether or not the Chinese team is in the tournament or not. And if they're not,

then it's going to be Matt Socorillo in Norway entering the fray. Who are some other guys on the Norwegian? Well, unfortunately, the greatest Norwegian player

of all time, Thor, Viking Stade. Viking Stade. Retired. Viking Stade, yeah. Stod?

Wichard? Wicking. Wiking Stod? Not. Stad, Stad, like ST-80. Okay, understand something. Muffucker's name is Viking. He's from Norway.

I care not about your pronunciation. He's Viking. Yeah, I'm looking at up. A lot of the guys on the Norwegian team play in Norway or Germany, it seems like, and then there's a couple AHL guys and that sort of

thing, but for the most part, you're getting a lot of guys who play in, like, the All-Svenskine and the Norwegian League and stuff like that. And they're not going to do a lot. I mean, they'll do better than China. Oh, yeah. Yes, that is 100% true.

And there's probably multiple guys who at least played like in the OHL or something like that, you know? Maybe not. I don't know. All right. That's a lot of hockey talk. Ghostbusters to afterlife, you in? You seen it?

I have tickets to see it on Sunday. I think it is going to be a grim exercise for me. I'm going to be watching this movie going, this sucks. I have been moderately spoiled for it. I'm very interested to hear your opinions about the finale of the film. Well, you know, I'm assuming the finale involves all the living Ghostbusters, maybe even Sogernie Weaver.

Yeah, I think it'll involve all the Ghostbusters, probably. Yeah. Well, it was so funny because the, the, trailer was playing coy if like, you know, who could possibly, she's alluding to her, Carrie Coon is alluding to who her father is. Who could it possibly be? And it's like, I bet it's the one Ghostbuster who's dead. And then it turns out that's exactly right.

But it just. Yeah, we've turned, we've turned the stay puffed marshmallow man into the minions, it looks like. Yeah. And the other thing is, every trailer I've seen, the thing when I think about the Ghostbusters is, they're funny. The Ghostbusters are funny guys. They're saying funny things. Not a single laugh in any of the trailer, not one of the trailers, except, you know, I think there's maybe one like, I'll have what she's having, style, like kind of joke at the end of the end of one of the trailers.

You don't think that that Muncher is inherently funny, the big, the big ghost. How about this? How about this? It was revealed that Josh Gadd provides the voice of Muncher. Say no more about that. the filmmaking process in this, but it just seems a lot like Eternals. It's like, what if this wasn't even, like, fun? Because the gimmick of a lot of superhero movies, for example, is supposed to be, boy,

wouldn't it be fun to be, but, you know, Eternals was like, what if it was, this movie was about the burden of being, like an eternal being who's tasked with, you know, being basically like a galactic Switzerland in all human affairs. Yeah, I'm interested. I think I like the turn all's a little bit more than you. It sucked. Oh, boy. Yeah, I didn't think it sucked.

I think it, uh, it was better than I thought. Was when the guy hits the table and then the other guy goes, IKEA fall in the election. And everybody's like, right, because it was one of the three jokes in the movie that were all in the trailer. I understand. Yeah. Well, my other thing, my other suspicion about that is I wouldn't have

thought it sucked so badly, except it was literally attached to every movie I saw for six months. I might have to do it five reasons why Eternals was good for the Patreon. Nobody's going to agree with you. And if it's anything like your last one of those, it'll be like, remember your friends were there,

freaking Captain America, whoever. Okay. It's not really a reason. The last one I wrote was about Rise of Skywalker. Oh, right. And you're like, your friend Loop was there. Your friend loopy and Chuby. And everybody's like, what? You're like, oh, remember the freaking emperor?

He was in Return of the Jedi, and then he's in this movie. Oh, okay. I think the couple of the things that I said were good about Rise and Skywalker were, what, the existence of Exigal was one of them. Yeah, and everybody was like, oh, the thing that sucked about that movie was good. It was fucking awesome. It is like, it was, and the thing I liked about, I'll tell you the thing I like most about Eternals was Circe's powers, the ability to change any non-living matter into something different. And then they immediately subverted that and was like, oh, she can also do it with living matter.

Cool. What a great. Right. And it's like, it's like, how did you do that? She's like, I don't know. It was crazy. I had an entire conversation with my friend, Chris, after seeing Eternals. We went to watch some football afterwards about like, could she turn a Cheeto into a gold bar? Or, like, turn a Cheeto into a diamond. And, like, if you had that power, how fucking baller would it be?

But at some point, would somebody catch on and understand that those are Cheeto diamonds and not, like, real diamonds? And then the value of the thing that you could create. Yeah, you can save all this for fucking Clerks Four. I don't give a shit. The movie's stunk. Who cares? The movie was awful. Let's talk about the deviance.

No, listen, I'm somewhat excited about... There may not have hopes or something. I didn't understand that either. I'm somewhat excited about Ghostbusters. Oh, it's going to stink, Greg. Come on. It might. It seems like someone said, what if we did stranger things but Ghostbusters?

Yeah, and like there were... And actually had the kids from stranger things in it. Yeah. And no jokes, right. Like, there better be jokes. And there better be jokes. They better not all come from Paul Rod. Now, one of the things that you wanted to talk about,

because you're such a passionate Ghostbusters Afterlife fan was just a character named podcast. There's a character named podcast in this fucking fuck off. Are you shitting me, dude? That is awful. That's so bad. Don't you remember the original Ghostbusters, though? There was that character named Fanzine.

That's right. It's just updating the names for the next generation. It's a character called Atari 2,600. Shut the fuck up. Oh, my God. They kind of gave it away in the commercial. Do you know who the big bad in the movie is? Is it Gozer the Gozerian for some shit?

It's Gozer the Gozerian. Gozer's back, baby. Gozer's back. Bring back Vigo the Carpathian. Now there's a guy. Oh, yes. Carrie Coon's like, why is that painting over our fireplace looking at me with such evil lustful eyes? That's right.

And then instead of the oil underneath. the surface of this, what is it, Oklahoma or some shit? It's the pink slime, making everybody angry. Yeah, you know, that's the thing is, this movie, unlike Ghostbusters, answer the call, takes place in the universe where, like, all this stuff from Ghostbusters happened, and, like, the whole town, when they're like, damn, this is, like, freaking Ghostbusters stuff.

And nobody in that is, like, remember when the Statue of Liberty Watchers, down fucking Broadway. Do you remember that? Like all of New York was covered in pink slime? Do you remember when that happened? Like say what you will about the MCU, but I do love the fact that like the snap and like the attack on New York have remained, you know,

part of everybody's trauma in that series. Like they get evoked a lot and I always appreciate that because if that shit happened for real, like we would never forget about it. Yeah. So I appreciate it. Oh, by the way, I just pulled up the things you like to about, uh... Here we go.

Like, give me the five. Uh, Jody Comer, who's in the movie for two seconds, maybe? Oh, I love Jody Comer. Jol-D. Comer, killing Eve. One of my favorite actresses. Although I have not seen the last two movies that she's done. Yeah, you must love her shit. She is in the movie for eight fucking seconds, and you're like, that rocked.

And that's one of the best things about that movie. It rocked. Because, like, everybody's, like, walked out of the movies. It was like, oh, my God. No, my favorite part of the movie was Ray's mom, who's in it for eight seconds. Along similar lines, you said it's cool that Dominic Monaghan showed up. He also had like maybe a one-line role. Yeah, he is someone who helps out with the exposition during the Palpatine somehow returned part.

And he does the, he's the guy who delivers the, you know, like the like cloning, dark magic, Sith shit kind of kind of speech. Yeah. The Sith Wayfinder, maybe the worst part of the movie. You said that was good. Love it. And then you said, Oh, Damarin. Who, Oh, Paul Rob.

He's the, yeah, he's the, he's the best part of those movies. And they, and they actually gave like a backstory

a little bit, and, uh, he, he, uh, he, uh,

he didn't get into a romance with Ray, which is great. Um, so, yeah, Po, who doesn't love Poe Navarod?

Hot shot X-Wing pilot. Yeah. And then Exigel was my other one, because I'd love the concept of Exigel. Who are these people? What are they do on their off days? Do they read? Is there a chickfilet on Exigel?

So many questions. Yeah, don't need this shit in my life. I'm not even supposed to be here today. Remember that? It's so funny. The guy says, freaking... Is there a Kevin Smith movie that you like?

Because as a kid from Jersey, I... Ooh, is there! I am, uh, I am, uh, I am, uh, by law, uh, defender of Kevin Smith, uh, jerseys, Kevin Smith, yeah, Kevin's just Jersey as well. You gotta be a, depend on that as well. It's, it's a bit of a defender of Kevin Smith movies and jerseys with shorts. Yeah. I remember liking dogma.

I haven't seen it in 50 years. And I didn't know Zach and Mary make a porno was a Kevin Smith movie when I saw it. And then finding that out later, I was like, oh, that makes perfect fucking sense. It makes perfect sense, yeah. But like that's not terrible, I guess. Terrible, right. A lot of the other ones. I like them all.

I like them all. I love them all, except for that last one that came out. That last Jane Salon Bob movie was fucking... No, no, the Jane Salon Bob... Yeah, you're a big yoga-hangers guy. Go on. Stop it. Now you're just being mean.

That movie's terrible, too. That's interesting. Jersey girl. Are you trying to say that little... Little, was it, little sausages that were Nazis? I'm going to tell you, Greg, didn't see this one. Okay. Missed it, actually, somehow.

The overrated, underrated, favorite, these favorite, the OUFL for the week, comes from us from Christopher Boyd. In honor of Ghostbusters, colon, afterlife coming out, OUFL on comedic sci-fi movies. Comedic sci-fi movies. Overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite. I'll tell you what to have rated

amongst comedic sci-fi movies. Men-and-Black 3. Men-in-black 3 properly has kind of terrible. No, no, no. People really,

people like it for two reasons. They like it because it's better than Men-N-N-N-N-Block 2, which was legitimately terrible. And people really like it because of the Tommy Lee-Jones impression that Josh Brolin does for the entire movie. And also because it has a bit of a

touching story to it involving, you know, Will Smith, as a young lad. So, like, people really kind of put it over, but, but your, your assessment of it is correct. It's not very good at all, especially in comparison to the first film. I do love a good time travel movie. Do you love, you know, Josh Rowland, sure.

But, uh, overrated for me, uh, people, people tend to like that movie more than, than they should by just because of the context of it. For me, the answer, uh, for overrated is back to the future part two. It's okay. It's pretty good. It isn't anywhere near as good as the first one. People forget how much of that movie is bad because we all liked the future, the fucking hoverboard shit. Here's what it is.

That movie has too much hiding in closets for me. Right. Because the thing of like you can't see yourself or whatever makes it so. Yeah. There's a lot of just like, you know, in much the same way. that, like, they say nothing would have happened in Indiana Jones different if Indiana Jones had not been involved at all, you know? Yeah. There is a lot of that with, where it's just like, oh, he's kind of just passively watching stuff happen around him.

I'll say this. Yeah, no. I'm not going to waste my underrated on it, but I'll say this. You know, what's better than Back to the Future 2 is Back to the Future 3. Yeah, the Cowboy one. Yeah. now that's fun oh boy underrated i can't can i call buckery bonzai underrated

i mean that's kind of a cult classic i've never seen it that seems like one of those movies that you're not allowed to say that because it's one of those things yeah like there are people who are like this one of the greatest movies of all time okay i don't underrated it i would go that far underrated is tough though because like there's a lot of movies that have achieved cult status that i don't think you can say or underrated like you can't say bill and ted's bogus Journey is underrated. You can't say that fucking Gremlins 2 is underrated. These are all movies that are now like chronically

like great. Even like Return to Living Dead, I don't think it could be underrated. Shit. Are we saying zombie movies is sci-fi? I mean, I guess. Well, sci-fi comedies. Oh, you say, are we taking horror comedies out of the equation? I kind of

think of those as horror comedies and not like even if there are sci-fi elements. Like, a lot of horror movies have sci-fi elements, so. Right. I'll put this out in the world, because I do think that this movie is underrated. The World's End, I think, is underrated, because I think in the trilogy of Edgar Wright films, I don't think it's nearly got the following that Sean of the Dead and Hot Fuzz have.

It's definitely better than Hot Fuzz, but they part the deal with Sean of the Dead. Yeah, Sean the Dead is by far the best of the three. I think The World's End, though, is like a study of alcoholism and getting older and all that shit. It's a really, really solid flick. And I just saw it the other day for the first time in a while. And it's got some fucking great action scenes in it, too. So I'll say The World's End would be my understanding. Yeah, good movie.

I liked it. See, now I'm in a situation also where I'm going like, I guess a lot of these are just, like, beloved cult, like, because it immediately occurred to me to say Galaxy Quest, but it's like, no, I think that's properly rated. Everybody thinks it's fucking wrong. Yeah, that's probably rated. Right?

So now I got to really think about this. What's it going to be? Yeah. Were you a fan of Paul? No, no, that was bad. No, that didn't work for you? Pretty bad. Um

The lobster I loved the lobster I guess that is a comedy huh Yeah you could use that if you want Okay Yeah that works for me Let's go with the lobster

The lobster The lobster is so good Part of the Carrel Renaissance Yeah I don't want to spoil it Like just if you haven't seen the lobster See the lobster It is fucking weird

Your Gers Lanthamos baby Mm-hmm favorite sci-fi comedy of all time I mean it's Ghostbusters yeah hard

to pick against that for sure it's one of the most rewatchable movies of all time it certainly set the template for other movies that came after it

it's just extremely quotable and works on on almost every level yeah in fact a little scary too. When you were a kid, you see it for the first time, definitely scary.

The fucking fucking, fucking demon dog running through Central Park after poor Rick Moranis. Scary shit. Yeah. Is that yours too? Well, I'm very tempted to say back to the future. Again, this is a movie that's just like endlessly rewatchable. But we kind of mentioned it earlier, I guess, a little bit. Are we allowed to say Indiana Freaking Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark?

Is that sci-fi or is that not sci-fi? It's an adventure movie. I don't know if you could say it's a comedy, though. It's got humor in it. Yeah. But let me ask you this. What if you included MCU movies? What if you included Ragnarok or Guardians?

They would not be my favorites. And I think that any movie that makes like $400 billion, I don't know that you can say they're underrated. So. No, no, no, this is for favorite. Right. So, yeah, no. Okay, let me answer your question.

No, neither of those are my favorite movie of the genre. No, absolutely not. Okay. I'll say, you know what? You know what fucking rocks is a movie? And I haven't seen it in a while, but like when I saw it, I was fucking blown away as Attack the Block. Oh, Attack the Block is so good. Yeah, if you've not seen that, definitely, definitely.

But you know what? I've got to say back to the future. Like, what am I going to say? going to tell you. But attack the block rocks. It does. Least favorite, I got a very, very, very distinct one here.

I am a big Alexander Payne fan. You're going to say downsizing? One of the most disappointing movies I have ever fucking seen in my life. Devastatingly bad. For someone who likes the filmmaker and likes the people in the film and had a high expectations for it

to be this really high concept satire of consumer culture. It's fucking terrible. It's so bad. Like, maybe it's good for 20 minutes as they're doing the premise. And then the rest of it, it's kind of like, it's one of those ways that really feels like we had this amazing idea

and then had absolutely no fucking clue what to do with it. So we made this piece of shit. It's so bad. Yeah. I don't know if this, again, does this count as a comedy? necessarily. But Ready Player 1 might have been one of the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen in my life.

It's more like a sci-fi adventure movie. Okay. But if you want to use it there and just shit on it, you can. What didn't you like about it? Everything about it. Well, I know you, and I could tell that, like, it's definitely not going to be your jam because it's a very member-Berry's movie. You know, it's like spot the reference kind of thing.

Yeah, and that, like, you know, there was that published Like, you know, I knew everything about the freaking Simpsons and Star Wars and Back to the Future and Ninja Turt, like just a list of stuff he knows about and it's just like, yeah, yeah, a whole movie of that really, really fucking blows. That sucks so bad. Right. You know what? I'll just, I'll just go with an easy one.

One of the, this could have just as easily been an overrated, but Space Jam is, is unwatchable. I watched it again when a new legacy came out, and it's like a new legacy might be better than the original, and it sucks. It's so bad.

So, yeah. Word. All right, well, there you go. Little sci-fi comedy. OUFL for that ass. Thanks for sticking with us. Sean should be back soon. You can read my stuff at ESPN. I have a column up this week

about expansion team cult heroes, Ryan, talking about Brandon Tannab of the of the Cracken, but more than that, talking about what it was like to be Stu Grimson with the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, what it was like to be Ron Tugnut with the first year Columbus Blue Jackets. Did you know that Ron Tugnut,

in order to introduce him to Blue Jackets fans, ran for president in 2000? Like, was going from... Hell, I voted. forum. He earned 12 rated votes in the Ohio presidential election. That's cool. Did Ron tell you that.

Yeah. There you go. What do you got coming up? E.P.Ringside.com, I don't know. I got to write the three stars of the week tomorrow. I'll try to come up with three guys who did stuff that was good. But otherwise, yeah, go to E.P.Ringside.com. All my shits there.

if you use the offer code I love EP when you buy an annual subscription they'll tack an extra three months onto the end of your sub for zero extra dollars so it's just something to think about and the EP again is

Olias Pedersen we said it earlier oh okay okay very good thanks everybody for listening we love you and supporting us and head to the Patreon for the mailbag folks oh wait if you miss the bonus episode. My goodness, on the Patreon and bonus episode, Hall of Fame

debates. We did a bunch of different categories of potential Hall of Famers, both retired and near retirement and talked about who's getting in and who's getting out. It's good listen. I think you'll enjoy it. And Sean's on that one if you

miss your sweet velvety Canadian Boy's voice. All right. Talk you in back. Say it. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got Sportly commentary To what if you commute We also cover movies, TV shows

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