Puck Soup - Cat's All, Bolts!

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Sean and Ryan talk about every playoff series, Seattle's coaching change, and more. Sponsored by Express VPN (expressvpn.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McIndoo, future coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Wow. Fresh off the media tour, now he's in the coaching. Oh, wait, I just got a text. I was fired. Sorry. He's still one of the longest serving coaches.

Now, look, the thing is, I'm actually surprised they fired you that quickly because usually you get like 14, 15 cracks at this before they finally say, you know what? enough's enough. A little bit of an overcorrection, but... I actually, we're not going to talk about the maple leaves off the top here. It's simply my pleasure. We're going to keep up the puck suit playoff tradition of... We're going to talk about the games from last night, and then later we'll talk about the games tonight. Now, people were saying we should just wait until recording on Wednesday. Interesting. I feel like there's a conflict there.

Yeah. Let me check the next. knife in my back. I've got a different thing. Yeah. I got to do a podcast with the guy who, uh, a week ago assured me, Leif's in five, take it to the bank. Wow.

So. And then you put the mirror away and, uh, you know. I wish. Uh, no. So let's, let's start. Let's talk about last night's games. We'll start with, uh, the Florida Panthers in just, in just five games have eliminated the Tampa Bay lightning from the,

playoffs. Little brother finally dunks on Big Brother. Yeah. Beets Dad and driveway basketball. So I guess my lead-off question here is very simple. Is this the end of the

Lightning era? Boy, I mean, it feels like the end of something. Now, whether that means these guys are headed to like Pittsburgh Penguin Land for a few years. I don't know. Our buddy, Mark Lazarus, had a column to to that effect that dropped as soon as the game was done. But boy, I mean, the Stamcoast thing is hanging over all of this. He really looked like a guy last night who thought he was playing his last game. but we don't know that and we've thought that before.

That is certainly true, yeah. But if he goes, I mean, that's even if you, you know, I don't think anybody thinks that they're going to suddenly go, okay, we got to rebuild now. Let's start trading guys for first round picks and all of that. I think when you've got the remnants of a championship corps, you push it as far as it can go. even if that leads you to where the penguins are,

where the capitals are kind of are, we'll talk about them in a bit. I think you owe it to the guys to take as many swings as you can. But I think the diminishing returns phase has absolutely been reached here. Well, you know, let him take as many swings as you can. Like, I get that. And the thing is, like, you look at your, your cap. friendly lightning page

and they don't really have the option to blow it up or anything. You know what I mean? Like, there are... A lot of long-term deals to guys you would not think. And also a lot of them, no movement clauses and all that. Like, the more expensive

ones are basically unmovable. Even if you're like, well, someone would surely want Nikita Kuturov coming off this season. Good luck getting him to go anywhere else, you know? That having been said, to your point about, like, letting them take some more cuts at it,

it's like at some point you're just doing the Bugs Bunny thing where you swing so hard that you screw yourself into the ground. Yep. You know? And did they lose last year in the first round in four games or five, or five games or six? Six. Six. Okay.

So in the last two years, they've won a grand total of three out of 11 playoff games. If my math is correct? That math would check up. That sucks. That's a really bad number. And it's not as though you, um, you watch those games and you were like, oh, the lightning were right there in every single one. Bad bounces and all this kind of stuff.

We'll talk about the, uh, alleged controversy, let's say, uh, in a minute, um, around this game. But, like, to me, it just feels like, yeah, they made the playoffs. They had 98 points or whatever the number was this year. Like, a good number is what I'm saying, I guess. It's not like they did the Capitals and Islanders thing where, like, they kind of got in by default. But, you know, we've seen this plenty of times before where it's like, okay, now we're

at the point where we just make the playoffs and lose in the first round. And the only thing I'm wondering about with that is, is that good enough for them? Like, in what way do they try to make it so that they don't lose in the first run next year? I don't know what the answer is. Maybe they don't either. Yeah. My guess is they don't. I mean, the philosophy there has been flags fly forever for a couple years, if not more.

So now you sort of pay the. you've got to pay the Piper a little bit, but that's going to be fun next year when we all have to do our predictions. I bet you a bunch of people are going to pick them to miss the playoffs. Oh, I wouldn't be surprised by that at all. This is Detroit's year.

This is Buffalo's year. And dude, did you see what Ottawa did in the offseason? It did a great summer. Yeah, they added the worst goalie in the league. Yeah, they traded for that guy. Yeah. They're definitely not going to have to trade away in two years. It's going to be great.

Yeah. Tough, tough one for, for Ted. What did you think of the goalie interference stuff? It was fucking obvious goaltender interference calls of the playoffs so far. What are we, what? Look, I know John Cooper's like, oh, these freaking goalies, they need a freaking safe space. And why don't they paint it blue and make it roughly the size of the goal mouth? Like, shut the fuck up, man.

Yeah. Okay, you're right. If you, if those two goals happen, then you're, then, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, games a lot closer, certainly, and momentum and all this kind of stuff. But okay, lose on fucking Thursday then, Wednesday, whatever game, whenever that next game would have been. Lose on that night instead, then. His complaint was about the rule itself, but given what the rule is, there was no question

on really either of those two calls. I have the, you know, I read the athletic for the articles, you know. Sure. And I've seen more than a few times an article basically saying exactly how to look for goal interference. Every single. Wow. There's a challenge. Great article.

The guy who wrote a bit of a dipship, but, you know. Yeah. To me, I just looked at both of those plays. And because I read the article, or, you know, because I saw. the guy like Russian, not Russian legs, we've dropped toehold

the stick out of Vovovsky's hand on one of them. The second one like a little more borderline but still obvious, I'll put it this way. You know,

Dave Jackson is the guy on ESPN. And he's like, well, that's cold tanger in fear. It's all day. You know. Like not not really in the business of equivocating

anyway, I would say. but in this one he was just like, goaltender interference. Everybody on Twitter, goaltender interference. Makes me go, I feel like,

you know, we're watching two different things. If me and John Cooper, you know what I mean? I gotta say, Dave Jackson, I have found has been doing a good job lately on this stuff.

I think for, I think every case of a hockey referee being put in that role, they, there tends to be maybe a hesitancy to criticism that you don't really see on the NFL side. Yeah. Which obviously is where they're boring the concept. But I feel like he's kind of found his footing everything I've seen at least for this year.

Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah. I guess I don't really have much else to say about it. I think they were both two pretty obvious goaltender interference calls. And even, again, like, even if you're like, well, that's not the spirit of the rule because that's what John Cooper said. It's not the spirit of the rule.

This is not a spirit of the rule. Rule. Like, I don't know what you want to tell me, bud. Like, this is, it's not the spirit. I mean, it wasn't the spirit of the rule that we review every offside for half a millimeter. But here we are. I get like, hey man, your team just got eliminated.

You're going to find something to complain about. Yep. You're going to be. And if you're the same thing. You're a lightning fan. Oh, it. crazily enough, Lightning fans are like, you know,

I generally understand this rule, but I thought these ones should have gone my team's way. Lightning fan coming in peace. Please don't, yeah. No, it's, like you say, at the Frozen Four a few weeks ago in the national title game, or no, I'm sorry, one of the semifinals, BU lost to Denver in overtime.

And they were just like, yeah, let's just challenge that overtime goal. just, you know, and after the game, everyone was like, what were they challenging? They were like, I don't know, whatever. It doesn't matter. You know, like, you might as well, you might as well, you know, go out in a way that like, you know,

it's still working the refs because maybe you can get the rule changed over the summer, you know? But at the same time, it's like, oh, if one of the calls that you got change goes against you next year, what are we doing? It's open season on goalies. Mm-hmm. Okay.

You know. consider the source for these kinds of things, I guess is what I'm getting at. Sure. But otherwise, you know, I don't, I think it's kind of, you know, doing a disservice to the Florida Panthers who beat the dog shit out of Tampa Bay Lightning in this series. And they're awesome. How often do we say with contenders, right? You want to get at least one quick series. They got a quick one.

As my buddy Pierre points out, basically no trillions. travel in the first round of the playoffs for the Panthers, sets them up pretty well to face, as Matthew Kachuk says, their number two rival in the next round. Yeah. I don't think that series is over, but we'll check on that. I like the audacity, though, you know. Imagine that.

I like, you know, he's working. I'm starting to think this Matthew Kuchuk guy likes to get under people to stir the pot a little bit. Yeah, maybe. Um, but no, I, you know, the, it's, I, I like when this happens. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the panthers, 58.5% of the expected goals in the series. Mm-hmm. 58.8% of the goals.

Ooh. Ooh. First of all, again, that's, that's, that's a flat out ass beating, right? But second of all, it's just nice when the numbers line up. So, so, so, uh, smoothly, you know? Yeah, it really is. Um, um, 54% of the, um, the scoring chances, 57.7% of the scoring chance goals, 57.8% of the high danger chances.

It was pretty comprehensive. And I think if you're looking at it, like, there wasn't really a game where you said the lightning were like definitively the better team. You know what I mean? Um And so if the series ends in five games, I can't, I can't have any, uh, like any,

oh, you know, the, the lightning, they kept it close though. I mean, you know, a bunch of one goal games until the end there.

Last few weren't. But, um, yeah, I can't. I can't sit here and say the lightning, wow, you know,

they went, they went down swinging. I kind of got their asses kicked. Yep. I pity whoever has to play the Panthers in the second round, wink. Yeah, it feels like, I mean, we're talking about the lightning because we're going to get plenty of chances to talk about the Panthers in the coming weeks, I suspect. Yeah, and again, like... They can get goalied just like any other team in the history of the NHL, right?

Like, we've seen as good or better offensive teams, you know, run into a goalie who's 940-something. And they lose in six games. You're like, wow, that's crazy. It could happen. Sure. But, you know, whoever comes out of this Bruins Leifes game or series, I'd have a hard time picking them to win. I don't think anybody is, like, that's not a novel opinion. but, you know,

Panthers look really, really scary. The other game from last night, the stars even it up against the Golden Knights. The only good series. Yeah. The only 2-2 series. And it is very, very good. I saw, I think it was Mendez saying,

like, we should almost just skip to game seven overtime. Because, man, it feels like that's, where we are headed. Although, I don't know, should we be more worried for the knights losing two at home? Were we worried for the stars losing two at home? Yes. Okay, well, then there you go. No, I think now that it's even again, like, the reason you're worried about the stars is you don't want to go down 2-0 in a series, no matter who your opponent is, let alone the Stanley Cup champions.

Right? Mm-hmm. But now that it's tied and going back to Dallas, like, that's the only concern you would, normally have is that you've got to play two road games to to win the series in all likelihood. Yep. Right? But I don't know if you checked how road teams have done in this series so far. I wouldn't be sweating it if I was if I was Vegas, like more so than I would for, you know, any normal game.

Yeah, it's always weird when that happens and you get the home teams losing every game. Yeah. I'll say this. Last night's game, I was, I was pretty surprised how, what's the word I want to use, permissive Dallas was as soon as they got the lead? Mm-hmm. They were just like, you know what, we're good touching the puck. They just, I mean, they really just sat back.

It was crazy, the extent to which they did. Like, every NHL team does that, so it's weird when it's noticeably like, all right, Got the puck, shoot it down the ice. Regroup. The entire third period was like that. They had, I don't know, three scoring chances in the third period if I had to ballpark it.

I guess I can just look it up. And it was actually two. It says here, two high danger scoring chances in the third period at five on five. Now here's the thing. They only gave Vegas three. So, you know,

the stars are on paper, I think. Would you say they're the best, them are Florida, right? I pick Dallas to win the cup. Yeah. And I look dumb for two games. Now I look brilliant again. I think you're just back to looking like you're of average intelligence.

That's fair. I'll take that. If it's two, too, too. Hey, you know, we're all trying to get there, you know. But yeah, I wonder how much it was a little bit like game three. They kind of emptied the tank. They went psycho on Vegas in game three. And like I said, I just wonder how much of that was like, who, we kind of punched ourselves out there.

You know, you ever see this in a boxing match or whatever? Yep. It's a good series, though. Yeah, awesome. The only... Boy, you know what I would stink, though? What's that? I love the idea of this series going seven.

But if like every other series is done in five, and then we got to sit around for a week waiting for these guys to finish. Yeah. That's going to be rough. In round one, I don't like that. No, that would be a... We need some other team to force a game seven.

Okay, I'll... I'll put it this way. Which series do you think is... Well, I mean, we're quickly running out of series, I suppose. But which series do you think is it Nashville and Vancouver? Certainly with the goaltending injuries, that one you could see getting extended. And I still think Winnipeg, Colorado is, you know... I do think Winnipeg's got a level that they could potentially get to.

That would be the other one that would jump out at me. I don't. L.A. Edmonton, no. Carolina, New York, no. I think that covers all of them. Yeah, I think that's probably about right. So, yeah, I guess I don't have like a huge amount to say about this series other than these are two really awesome teams that are playing really fun hockey games. It helps that all, I think basically every game in the series has been a one goal game.

and, you know, the home teams keep losing. Not counting empty netters, yeah. I think the fact that the home teams keep losing makes it more fun. Because you're like, well, surely this is the game where the home team and not so fast, my friend. You know, that always is a good time for me. And we go tomorrow night for game five. Yep. And then we go Friday, Sunday.

So just every other day? Every other day. And I was going to say they've got it listed as 1 p.m. starts, but that's not right. That's hockey reference, just not knowing how to handle the TBD. Right. Sure, yeah. You could hopefully, I mean, I guess that's the other thing is hopefully we get, I mean, I know this kind of sucks for the local fans, but get them moved up into prime time. That'd be cool, too.

People say that about, like, you know, the local fans or whatever. I don't think they would run like an even, like an even five o'clock start. On a Sunday, you could do it. Well, that's what I was going to say. But the problem is, you know, Vegas, everyone's in church, right? So. The thing I like, I love what a weekend game is it like, whatever, like a 4 p.m. start or even 1 p.m. I like that shit.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think it just... I like it when it's someone else's team. I hate my team playing on an afternoon. Why do you say that? Because I'm Canadian and I want every hockey game to be Saturday night. Okay. It's the only appropriate time to play a hockey game. I guess I get that.

But yeah, to me, I've always, like, I think back to when I went to, LA several years ago like in the middle of the second round I want to say I just went for and like you know you just like four o'clock comes and you're at the bar or whatever and there's just a playoff hockey game on

on like a Tuesday that was awesome for me. I thought that was so sick. So you know maybe maybe not being Canadian as you say is the differentiating. That's your big problem right there. Lots of people are saying

this. It's my big solution to a different problem, you know. Yeah. Because then I got to, I got to know who this Pierre-Paul-Veyer guy or what is. Oh, yeah. I saw some tweet yesterday. I saw some tweet yesterday that was like, he's going to use the notwithstanding clause. And I was like, uh-oh, I don't know what the fuck that is.

But everybody I saw tweeting about it was like, if he uses that not with standing clause, it's over. Can't be doing that. No idea what that means. It's insane. It's stupid way of running your democracy. You know when something is withstanding? It's like the opposite of that. When something's notwithstanding, man.

Oh, hey. It hurts. You know who's notwithstanding the playoff grind? Who's that? I'm trying to segue into whatever our next series is. Oh, well, that would be they not withstood the, the grind. The grind. the grind there.

The Washington Capitals, they're out. Can you believe a team that was like, I think it's 58 goals was the difference in their goal differential this year? Or 78? Some crazy number. Here's what I can't believe. In the NHL playoffs, the most obvious result actually just happened.

Yeah. Exactly the way that every intelligent person thought it would. And I put that qualifier on it because I picked the caps. And I picked the caps because. I was, like, I've had a couple of people. It hasn't been too bad, but a couple people were like, what were you thinking? I was like, I was trying to be a contrarian. I was trying to pick the long shot and like, let's say the caps had like a, had like a one and six chance to win.

That's not like a terrible. Right. Those are terrible odds. If I've got a one and six chance and I know I'm going to be like one out of the only guy people who picks him. Then that's an EV plus bet for me. based on what I'm trying to do when I make a prediction, which is simply to hit on enough long shots that I look smart. Now, the way we're talking about that idea is the problem with the proliferation of gambling ads?

Where we're just like, look, it wasn't a stupid bet because if it had hit, you know, I thought the capitals were due. You know, this is... They were. I saw... The Rangers were just spinning the puck. Just take it. Yeah.

I saw something this morning where at Dave and Busters, they will now let you, like, in an app, bet on whether you or your buddy wins, like, at ski ball or pop a shot. And it's just like, yeah, this is a sick society. Yeah. That is the... That is absolutely the sign of a broken society. and I really want to do that. To me, though, like, that's kind of going,

you know, the Grateful Dead, they'll let you do drugs at their concerts now. It's like, whether it was allowed or not, it was happening already. That is true. That is, anyone who's ever bet on the, what's the sickest thing you've ever bet on? I don't know.

I'm not like a big betting guy. Like the $5 bet or, you know, like whoever's going to pick the first round. I've bet on the demo mode. of Madden. Wow. You know, you just let it sit for a while and it was,

and you watch people play. All right. Seahawks plus three and a half. Let's do it. That actually, you know what? I would love to do that. No,

I've told this story before, but when I was in high school, um, there was like a thing where on the bus ride home, uh, somebody came up with the idea of like, let's just bet one dollar,

on like who, you know, we'll roll two dice and whoever has the higher one wins a dollar. Yeah. But then it turned into everybody, like you go double or nothing, double or nothing, double or nothing. And the idea was that by the end of the bus ride, you might owe someone $10 or whatever, $16. Or nobody owes anybody anything. Right. And one time I just got this insanely lucky run where a kid was into me for like $3,200 or whatever, like the math was. I was going to say, like, you got stuck in traffic and somebody ended up losing $4 billion.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I never got a cent of that money. I think that was just kind of like, yeah, that got a little heated, huh? That got a little crazy. You guys are just putting grades of rice on the chessboard and learning. That's how you guys learned about exponential math. It really is. Yeah, no.

Look, I'm not going to put, I remember the kid's name. I remember where the bus was when, when, when, When I crossed over like the $1,000 threshold, I remember where the, exactly where the bus was. I could dox all this, but I'm not going to. But yeah, that was the craziest thing. And then they had to like make a rule at school of like no one's allowed to have dice on them. I love it. I love this.

This is getting out of hand. Because it wasn't just me and my stupid friends. It was like presumably it was like every fucking bus like, you know, uh, diffusing from the school. Shooting dice. Yeah. Beautiful. So I don't know if that's like a crazy thing to bet on though.

I know it got out of hand. But is that crazy? I don't know. Maybe we're all crazy. If that's crazy, you know, what are we doing here? Shooting dice in high school. You're not even this. This is the problem with our woke society.

It is. In 2000. In probably 1990. Seven or whatever. Parents talk to your kids about shooting dice on the bus because that is the gateway to becoming a sports writer. Well, here's the thing. Now, the way it's freaking going, you know,

watching an NBA game is the way to become a gambling addict, you know? So bad. It's... Can't believe it. This week's episode is brought to you by our friends. I mean, I don't know. Are you, maybe this is ruining the bit, but are you familiar with the What a Pro wants commercial? No, but here, okay, so here's, here's the story with that.

A Gentile and I, not every year, but many years have done the commercial exchange bit. Yes. During the playoffs. I am terrified of this commercial. I have not seen it. I don't want to know anything about it. Okay. It is.

But I have had so many people in vote. that commercial alongside the Tara Tara Look at Her Go, which I'm still a little bit scarred by. I have to say, Tarara Looker Go is a lot more grading to me than this one is. The problem with this one is I think it's the first ad coming into every single break. Like they go, we'll be right back. And that commercial starts immediately. but not just on the NHL playoffs, the NBA playoffs as well. Like it's just like hanging over me.

Yeah. I almost want to get it over with and go YouTube it, but I'm not going to. No, you should. No. Cowards way out. Yeah. The other thing I want to say, I think this is maybe the third or fourth year in a row where it's the nice couple that has moved into a neighborhood with a bunch of kids who love hockey.

And it's the goal home. corn goes off, like in their house every time one of the kids scores a goal. Okay. And I feel like I might have talked about this. This is another ad that really suffers from being on every commercial break. Like, whoever the ad guy is at Geico that came up with this, I have me and you, like, meet me in the fucking parking lot dog. We have beef.

We got to settle. Yep. because it's a goalhorn going off maybe five times in the 30 second spot. But the acting from the people who are like increasingly annoyed by the goalhorn drives me. Now is one of these things that's where they're like they're trying to do that? They're just trying to be. Is it like a Cars for Kids sort of scenario where they're trying to be as annoying as possible so that you remember them? Well, I think they are trying to convey that the parents.

in the ad are annoyed by the goalhorn. Right. But there's one where there's the acting choice in this scene drives me up the fucking wall when I, when I happen to look up from this is, um, the, the mother is like clipping a bon-a-a-tree. Okay. And right when she's about to clip, the goalhorn goes off. And the exaggerated way where she's like, she does the thing where she kind of does, does like a mic drop with the pruning shears.

Yeah. Like to show her annoyance, like her acting in that scene, I wouldn't have noticed it in the first 20 times I saw the commercial. But now that I've seen the commercial 600 times over the last five years or whatever it's been, three years, I'm just like, can we get an alternate cut of this thing? Can we? There's got to be, there has to be some takes that they didn't use in the first one that they can mix in. Maybe not.

Maybe they did one and we're like, you know what? That's perfect. Yeah, it's a picture wrap on an annoyed mother. But, yeah, no, that is still, I think that's a worst commercial than Tara Tara. Look at her go. Because it's a goalhorn going off every four seconds. Yep. For an entire 30 second ad.

Cars for kids is still the worst. I would run over all of those kids with my car. Well, there was the, at least that was a plot point on Curve Your Enthusiasm this season. I don't know if you know that. No. Like for that specific commercial or just here trying to. Really? Look at me.

Being equally as funny as Larry David. Well, it's not go nuts. But yeah, anyway, the capitals, they stink. They're out. Alex Ovechkin seems to be in the crosshairs on this one. Do you have any idea why that would be the case? He's like the famous guy from this team. Is it that simple?

I mean, I think the fact that he didn't have, did he have any points in the series? He might have had an, he didn't have any goals and he was held without a shot, I think, twice in four games? I mean, the fact that he is the only player that I think a lot of people still think about on the capitals and did nothing at all. The interesting thing to me is the, like the situation with his ice time. and with the coach, kind of sort of criticizing him. Not over the top, but as far as coaches typically go during the playoffs,

certainly with franchise players, I mean, it was interesting. But I mean, a vastly better team was able to take away a not as good team's key weapon. I was thinking about this. Who was the best defenseman on the Capitals in this series? This is a legitimate question. I mean, is it, was it Carlson? Would you say? That's, I don't think it was.

I think this, and this is the problem for me. You know who I think it probably was in all honesty is Martin Fairevary? And it's like, man, you know what? I cannot get mad at like Alex Ovechkin if the best defenseman on his team in this series was Martin Ferevari. I mean, the caps were a 40-win team. they were, I wouldn't say lucky to make the playoffs, but making the playoffs was an accomplishment for this group. And, you know, I know once you get to the playoffs,

anything can happen, but sometimes the anything is the most predictable thing. And the problem is, in a lot of cases, you then say, okay, how do we build on that? I'm not completely sure how they build on that. I have some shocking news here. year. I just pulled up the expected goals for the capitals in this series. You know what two defensemen led them in expected goals percentage? I do not. Alexander Alexiev, guy you've definitely all heard of for sure. And like, you know, obviously this guy played limited minutes. Limited-ish, I guess. 64 and four games isn't like a terrible number or anything. But

number two among defensemen on this team. And again, playing like 11 minutes a night, not even. Dylan McElrath. When he was on the ice, the Capitals outscored the Rangers 2-0 in this series. Can't believe that wasn't a sustainable formula for playoff success. Yeah, it's crazy. And you're right, John Carlson's underlying numbers across the board are better than Vairvarez. So there you go.

But to me, I just, I can't get mad at anybody on the Capitals for how this series went. Let's put it this way. The Capitals were considered to be such underdogs that the Rangers winning this series, everybody's like, who gives this shit? Doesn't count. You've got to buy. And I know some Rangers fans have noticed this and kind of pointed it out. but like there are betting, again, getting to the bet,

not to promote betting, but as the odds makers tend to be pretty plugged in and pretty smart, which is why the gambling sites always win in the long run. They have Carolina and Florida ahead of the Rangers as far as their odds in terms of being the favorites, even when Carolina series is still going on Florida series until last night was still going on.

And the Rangers were home and cooled out. And the odds makers were still like, now we, we only have them third in the conference, which is a little bit odd for number one seed. Yeah, I don't think. Do you think that's unreasonable? I don't.

No. No. Put it this way. If you see the odds makers doing something and you think it's unreasonable, really, really, really consider that maybe they're right and you're wrong. Yeah, I mean, obviously they're not right 100% of the time. And like the Rangers have really good players at every position, right?

Like that is say what you want about their depth. I think that is their kind of Achilles heel. But the top of that lineup is as good as the top of anybody's lineup in the entire league. Like, you know, if you put the absolute best player at every position on the ice to start the game. And, you know, NHL 94, you turn line changes off. You're going, whoa, who's meeting the Rangers? If those are the six guys out there, it's a short fucking list. Yep.

You know? But, you know, again, as you get deeper down into the lineup, it becomes a little more questionable for them. And that's why they would be underdogs against Carolina, even though, as you say, 82 games, they are the better team. And I said it last week. We've got to put more respect on the first. President's trophy. I say it every fucking year. But, you know, just because you win 82, you know, you win the most points out of 82 games,

I don't know if you people have heard about this, but it doesn't mean shit in the playoffs. Yep. There's a whole curse about it from what I understand. Which means it doesn't mean anything to hockey fans, unfortunately. But yeah, like, I don't want to give the Rangers short shrift here. I really don't. even though, you know, again, I'm on record as being like, you know, whatever, they're fine.

I just don't know how to evaluate them because they played a team that shouldn't have been in the playoffs and now aren't. You know what I mean? Yeah. How many of those games are even interesting? Real question. I mean, how interesting did you think Tom Wilson

chasing Matt Rampi around the ice was? Yeah, there you go, right? Let's see here. going to look really quickly at the underlying numbers. Were there any games where the Capitals kind of made it interesting? I guess Game 2 was pretty close. It was the only one goal game of the series, and the Capitals had the better of the play at 5-on-5, certainly.

But, God, doesn't game one and two of these series, don't feel like that happened three months ago now? It's amazing how time slows down in the playoffs. Yep. But as you say, nice to get the rest, get out of there in four games, relatively unscathed, I think you'd say. And, yeah, they eagerly await the winner, wink, wink of Carolina and the Islanders. Yep, that's it.

That's the big, that's going to be the main event. And when you're booking the made event, standard booking is you have both the competitors win a squash to look stronger and into it. That's right. Buy the most. That's the way to do it. Yeah.

All right. Why don't we take a break here and then we'll come back and we'll talk about the games that would be happening tonight. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by ExpressVPN. And folks, if you're going online and you're not using a VPN, It's like, let's say you're at Walmart or something like that, and you've got to go to the bathroom. And you just walk up to some guy, you're like, hey, buddy, keep an eye on my kids while I go, go to the bathroom real quick? No big deal, right?

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You have any thoughts on any of the games that are maybe happening tonight, Sean? Nope. Oh, okay. Well, have a good one, folks. Bye. Um, yeah, Leaves Bruins, obviously, uh, everybody's in trouble in this one, in my opinion. Everybody on one team anyway is in trouble. It's not going great.

No. And, um, yeah, so when did we talk? We talked last time, was it after game? Game two, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So the Leafs had just, we just had the Austin Matthews game. he had not yet contracted consumption or whatever it is that he picked up.

Yeah, okay. We'll talk about that in a minute as well, but yes. But since then, we get two games in Toronto, two leaf losses, two not especially inspiring efforts, especially game four. Game four was a disaster. You've got the already infamous. now shots of the players sniping at each other on the bench. They should try sniping the puck, you know what I mean? They should try that.

And team now facing elimination and lots of obituaries already, I wouldn't even say half written. I think some of them have been published. Yes, absolutely. I don't know, let's give me the non-discrundal Homer take on this? Is there any path out of this for the Leafs? As somebody who has notably, I think on a few occasions, questioned how good the Bruins are.

Yeah. And knowing that they were in this situation last year, is there a scenario where a week from now we're going? Yeah, I mean, the issue is that perhaps by the time people listen to this, they will know that Austin Matthews is out for Game 5 or not as the case made. It sure feels like it's trending that way. It certainly does. And the way Shell and Keep described it, everybody was kind of like long COVID. Is that possible? But you don't get long COVID like over, I don't know.

I don't know anything about this long. I mean, nobody really knows what's going on. But the timeline would seem to be that he was fine up to an including game two. Yeah. And then almost immediately after started like missing practices and that, you know, maintenance days or whatever. But again, it was- A lot of people were saying food poisoning. Right.

But it was the thing, Keith said about, like, it gets worse when he exerts him something. Yeah. And everybody's like, well, I can really only think of like one thing that. Well, I mean, there's a couple, right? I mean, it could be, because the. Because the other thing that some people have mentioned is, well, I mean, concussion symptoms get worse when you exert yourself. Sure. Are they maybe getting, I mean, not even really getting cute,

like just being deceptive about what even is the issue here. Yeah, maybe. But yeah, I mean, a super bizarre situation in that he played game three, wasn't particularly noticeable, plays two periods of game four and then is out. pulled by the doctors, according to Sheldonkeith. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't know. Now, I mean, I know some people have mentioned, like,

if it's like a gastro thing or whatever, like, I mean, if he's puking in the dressing room, then, you know, maybe they shut it down. Dehydration can also be an issue that, you know, you don't want to mess with. Sure. But, yeah, it's, I mean, I can't recall. a player getting pulled for illness?

No, yeah, me neither. Especially in a situation where, I mean, you're clearly the team's best player. They were down, what, 3-0 at the time, so in very bad shape, but not hopeless. I don't know, man, that's a strange one. I guess presumably we'll find out in a couple of days or whenever it is, but at this point, nobody, we had, They at least haven't practiced yet.

And even when they do, presumably, if he doesn't practice, we'll still have to wait for the final lineups. But a lot of the hints coming out of Toronto are not, don't seem great. Yeah. So, like, if Matthews is done for the series or anything like that, like, yeah, okay, it's over, right? the thing is the way things have been trending, I don't really see a path forward here, right? Like the, you know, the way, like the way a Toronto team would win against these Bruins, perhaps, is by, you know, drawing penalties and scoring on the power play.

They don't do that anymore. Just like, what was it? Like two-thirds of the way through the regular season, they were like, yeah, we're done being a power play team. And so, like, I don't know that these guys can beat the Bruins at five on five. Because as much as I don't think the Bruins are a particularly good team, you know what they have is like a couple of good defensemen. Do the Leaves have any good defensemen? Morgan Riley, is that where we're still going to say that?

Yeah, I mean, Morgan Riley is their best defenseman. And I'll say Jake McCabe's been good. He has been good. You're right about that. You know me. If Jake McCabe's your number two defensemen, do you have a good enough blue line to win a standard come? And again, I'm, oh, definitely not. And I'm not a, I'm an avowed Morgan Riley isn't that guy, guy.

Like I think, is he good? Yeah. If he was on a better team, would he, you know, let me ask it this way. If he was on, how many remaining playoff teams would he be? the number one defenseman. Yeah. Not many. Not many is the correct answer.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't even think you can say the Kings, right? Like the Kings, maybe. Maybe the Jets, depending on how you feel about Josh Morrissey. Yeah. And like, you know, to me, you can't, you can't expect a team to make deep playoff runs when it's, when he's your best defenseman. and this is the crucial part,

and your expensive forwards aren't scoring at all. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's been the issue with the Leafs. And I know we all love the, you know, they're not tough enough.

They're not this and that. But it's, again, the scoring just disappears in the playoffs. Like, what are they up to guys? It's like double digits now. Three goals or less per game.

And they're not even getting to three goals anymore. Yeah. they just can't score in the playoffs. And a lot of that is the big guys. A lot of it is the defense not being able to create anything. A lot of that is the secondary story. Yep, that's right. But I mean, the depth was like, there's a lot of teams that would take Tyler Bertuzzi

and Max Domi as fifth and six forwards. Yeah, I guess I don't, I'm talking about, you know, the bottom two lines. Like, you just can't count on those guys to put the puck in the net at all. You know, like, it'd be nice to get Nick Robertson going. That's what I mean. The fourth line, obviously, when you're putting out, like, Reeves and David Camp, you're not getting, you're not expecting offense there. But it's just nobody.

My point is the Bruins are getting offense from those guys. Yep. In this series. Their third and fourth liners are scoring in this series. And they're scoring against the Leafs third and fourth liner. which is what they're, you know. If you can win that matchup, you can win a lot of rounds in the playoffs. Yep.

What was your thought seeing the bench stuff? My thought was, you know, I can't remember the exact quote now, but just, you know, the John Moxley thing that he said about CM Punk, where he's like, fragile mind, fragile ego, fragile body. You can't count on these guys. you can't count on these guys. And I say the fragile body thing, not to make fun of Austin Matthews or whatever.

But more like, as you say, these guys aren't like playing hard and not scoring. They're playing very, again, very permissive hockey and not scoring. And you can get away with playing permissive hockey if you also score and they're not doing it. So. I got to say as a fan, I'd rather see them.

yelling at each other on the bench than just staring off into the distance, which is what they usually do. Yeah, at least it makes it seem like they care or whatever. Yeah, that didn't, you know, that didn't bother me other than the fact that, you know, if they're going to be in this situation, that reaction doesn't bother me. The fact that they're in the situation is the problem. The other thing I would say is I don't like, or, you know, you know, if I'm you, I don't like, I don't like the fact that they're going like,

Mitch, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? Like that, the fact that they're like ganging up on Mitch Marner, you know, who, look, everybody did on Saturday, right? Like, that was, I mean, he's, he's become the lightning rock guy. Yeah. And I got to say it is, I think two things can be true. An awful lot of the criticism is valid for him.

like some of the stuff where they're individual plays where he's you know peeling off of charlie mackaboy rather than engage physically or where he's just kind of quitting in front of the net very valid criticism and and you know he's he's not producing much offense although he's been behind some valid criticism and yet also i feel like now it's going over the top like to the point where he is, um, he's absorbing more than his share. And I think part of it is,

is fans and media understanding that, I mean, he's, he's, he's the guy whose contract is up. Mm-hmm. So, you know,

are you going to go after Matthews? You're going to go after Willie Nealander? Well, I think you're not going to go. I think you're not going to go after Matthews because you're acknowledging, that there is something physically wrong with him. Well, I mean, but at the same, like, I mean, Nealander did miss the first three games. Yep.

Mitch Barner, I mean, he had the high ankle sprain, and I've seen people raise that and say, like, hey, I mean, that's a tough injury to come back from him. Absolutely. But he came back with two weeks left in the regular season. Yes, that's why I kind of don't buy that. If it's still an issue, then somebody screwed up somewhere. as far as bringing him back.

Because, I mean, it's not like the Leafs are playing for anything. Two weeks left. Right. Yeah. Why not hold them out? Yeah. But, yeah, I just... I'm going to read you all the Maple Leaf Skoll scores in this series.

Oh, I can't wait. I'll settle in. I'm assuming this is going to take a while. Mitch Marner, David, Camp, Matthew, Nye. It will, and here's why. Marner, Camp, Nyes, Domi, Matthews, Bertusy, Tavares. That's seven guys. They are all tied with a goal.

So that's why it's a longer list than you would probably expect is because nobody on this team has more than one goal. David Camp on a per minute basis is the second or third, yeah, second highest scoring goal scorer for the Leafs this year per minute. You can't win fucking hockey games like that. You can yell at Mitch Marner all you want. And like, yeah, he was making some dumbass plays in that game. Like no effort plays. Absolutely. And like something's physically wrong with Austin Matthews.

But like, and so, you know, like you say, William Nealander missed the first three games in the series. And, you know, he looked fine, in my opinion in game four. But like, you need more than that. And this is the, I'll keep saying it, brother. at some point, doesn't the coach have to ring more out of your team than what Sheldon Keefe has? Absolutely. No, it's unbelievable to me that this guy. They gave him an extension last year, Ryan.

Coming out of that and not in, this was Kyle Dubas even. This was in, no, this was the genius coaching hiring guy. The new guy who came in who could have absolutely said, hey, I like this coach, but, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm new here. I'm going to see how it plays out for a year. They gave him a multi-year extension. It has not kicked in yet. No. And I've mentioned that in a few places and people have been like, well, I don't know if you know this, but the company makes a lot of money and they can still fire him. Thank you. I'm aware of that. It's not about his job security. It's about the decision making. That's exactly right. Absolutely. And there's a good, there's a good piece that went up this morning on Sportsnet by Luke Fox, where he's talking about just the total lack of urgency top down in the Leafs organization.

You can talk all you want about, oh, it's not good enough and up in the dressing room, right? Losing does not rest lightly on their shoulders. Yes, it does. Sure, it does. as for years they keep running it back they keep saying keep waiting for it to happen

and and here's when you knew here's when you knew that this was a fucking problem the respect and the handshake line thing I don't like I almost said I hate to keep bringing it up I don't I actually fucking love bringing it up you know why

because it shows what a fucking loser mindset this team has yep Sheldon Keefe was it after game three or I guess it must have been after game three is bitching about like, oh, Brad Marshan, this guy, he's getting all the fucking calls or whatever. And it's like, you have more power plays than them in the series.

Shut the fuck up. What are you doing? Like you, again, I said this on the PDO cast the other day. So obvious this is a coach who has zero answers, not a single one. And like, you can try to say the context around the respect and the handshake line thing, all you want, right? But that to me, immediately, I was like, this guy does not have it. And, you know, that doesn't mean he can't get it at some point.

He can't learn, like what it actually takes to be deserving of respect as a coach, you know? Like, maybe I'm phrasing that a little harshly. But, like, the fact that you're like, man, I know we just got our asses beat, but they didn't act like we were total jokes this time. So I count that as a win. And you can say, well, he can learn. They keep handing him extensions. Well, that's what I mean. Like, I don't think he can learn in Toronto.

I don't think he can learn in Toronto. In great news, he's not going to get another chance to. Sheldon Keith, Mitch Marner, I mean, there's going to be all sorts of trade talk, any number of guys. If they go somewhere else and succeed, great. Good for them. you know if if if if you trade mitch marner and he goes and has 110 points next year good for him if shelding keef is a much better coach in his second stop great your job whoever is making the decisions for the leaps your job is not to prevent some other

of the 32 teams from having a good coach or a good player or whatever if it's not going to happen here it's not going to happen move on change something Nothing. Yep. You brought it up when they, was it, was it the Nylander extension where you're just like, well, they're just like fundamentally committed to not changing anything about the, all the problems they've had. They just, they constantly, the only change of any significance that they have made in, God knows how many years now was the, was the GM change from Kyle Dube. which only happened within the span of a few days after they had decided not to change.

Right, yes. Now, having said all that, I've said this in a few places, the leafiest possible outcome right now, with everybody already counting them out or already talking about how they're done, would be for them to win games five and six and four is a seventh game,

which they would then lose. Mission fucking accomplished if they do that. But they are... This is the one kind of trademark of this team. When the going gets tough, when everyone counts them out, when everyone's dumping on them, tends to be when they surprise us. And then, of course, when things are going even mildly well, they take their foot off the gas and crap the bed. But it wouldn't shock me at all to see them go out tonight. probably, I mean, the leave VSA'll come tonight is they

down to nothing, like late in the second period sort of deal, and then three quick goals end up winning the game. And then everyone goes, oh, wait a second, maybe they've turned a little life here. Finally, the switch is flipped and, you know, maybe go win a game six even and then just get your T kicked in in game seven because you're so busy patting yourself on the back. for winning two whole games in a row. And I should say,

I'm not like one of these guys where it's like, fuck, the leaves, the leaves suck. I hate the hearing about the leaves all the time. I do hate hearing about the leaves all the time, but only because it's the same fucking thing over and over again with these guys. You know what I mean? Every discussion is, well, you know,

I mean, things could go different this time if X, Y, and Z. And it's like, yeah, it's never going to, man. it's a I don't even want to say it's like a loser franchise because I think that that's being like a loser franchise is a lot about

for me anyway is a lot about like being happy to finish like eighth or whatever you know what I mean um Columbus Blue Jacket style and I think that if the Leafs had not gotten to a hundred plus points and however many consecutive seasons it's been now, that would not be good enough for them.

But I think there is a threat, let's say it's 105 points. I'm not looking at their, you know, historical point totals in the last several years. But to me, it's more like, well, look, I mean, like there's always an excuse, if that makes sense.

Like, you don't think that they're going to, They're going to try to be like, look, I mean, if Matthews was healthy, maybe this is a different series. I don't know who they is, but I will tell you that's not going to fly. Oh, no, it definitely isn't. But like, I have never seen a, like, the knives are out so much. Like, there is no scenario. Oh, no, I'm saying, I'm saying the last few years. At this point, they've run out of that kind of.

I mean, they can try. I mean, I get that, you know, Sheldon Keith can get up at it and say, well, you know, if we're healthy in his final press conference. But no, I think they, I think they've run out of that like kind of demonstrably. Like they, I don't think they can, they can get away with that. But like, it worked the last few years. When did you start saying like, boy, something is fucked up with this team? I don't know.

Like, when did you start saying that? Because it wasn't last year, certainly. No, I mean, I, it, the first year that it really, you, you started. having questions was the Columbus year. But that was the bubble. Okay, things are... Yeah, that was totally fake. Absolutely.

But, I mean, even people forget, like, that year was also... Mike Babcock was fired that year. That was the Zamboni year, too. Right. And remember, like, when the Zamboni thing happened, people weren't like, what a crazy outlier? They were like, what is with this team? They were already, by that point,

they were old and three in the playoffs, and people were asking questions. But the Montreal series was the giant, flashing. I mean, at the time, all sorts of us were saying, this is, this has got to be, there's got to be changes.

Let alone in hindsight, you look back and say that, I mean, that was the mistake that, to run it back, not just to run it back, but to aggressively pledge allegiance to the status quo after that.

Clearly a huge mistake. And I mean, I've looked back at my stuff. Like I've, I've been writing for three years now about how, like, all right, Montreal, something's got to change. Maybe they're going to trade martyr. Maybe they're going to do whatever. They lose to Tampa. All right.

Well, now it's going to change. Everybody loses it to Tampa, though. That's what I mean. Like, there's always that. I was looking at my stuff from last year. I was like, well, I mean, the one thing with this Panther series is, okay, at least now they can't possibly run it back again. And I made, like, some throwaway marty, like, you know, there's going to be a new coat. So I got there, here we go again.

You know what, you know what's really funny? And I said, sorry, go ahead. I said this on, I was on a podcast with a guy named Goreg and ESPN. There is a scenario where in some alternate universe, maybe it works. The Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup. And what do we hear from the players, right? They just go, the turning point of everything was when we were down and everybody was coming after us, this team had our backs. Brandon Shanahan, Kyle Dubes, whoever, they had our backs.

They didn't throw us under the bus. They didn't panic. They trusted the plan. They stuck with us. And that's why we were here today. Like, yeah, that could have played out. But it didn't. and it's not going to.

That's right. Now we're going to, it's, there is a part of, even I think, the diehard fans. It's like, you know what, just lose tonight and let's get this over with. Let's start really pulling it up good. Because as I think a lot of people know by now,

but if they don't, there is a new CEO of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. And so there is a lot of speculation that it's the changes are going to go much, much higher than just changing the coach. And that whoever comes in is not going to be granted the opportunity to say, well, let's just stick with the status quo for a year or two until like find my footing. Yeah. But we'll see.

We'll see. I mean, maybe this can be year four of me saying absolutely, positively, no question, and something's going to change and then it doesn't. But. Ah, well. Any thoughts on the Bruins? It looked all right. Yeah, they have looked all right.

Power play looks good. Yeah, I mean, that really is the difference in the series, right? Like, their power play is putting the puck in the net at a phenomenal rate, and the Leafs is doing the opposite. The whole goaltending dance has been an interesting story. Did you see that quote yesterday from, from Allmark? Or he's like, well, look, I didn't get here, and we didn't get here as a team by like me complaining about my fucking ice time was basically what he said. And I'll see if I can find the real quote because it was just like, they were like, oh, you got to be, you got to be upset.

You don't know if you're starting or whatever. Yeah, I'm not here to be a sulky little cry baby, he said, about not playing or anything like that. So he's right. Imagine if he had said like, you know, I got to grow up. You know, it's not junior, bro. Oh, good for him. Yeah. I think that's like a very reasonable way to handle it, though.

I did think it was interesting that the, you know, the Leafs, after years of having the second best goalie in every series, decided to mix it up and have the third best goalie in the series. This is, what a weird outcome. That's not working. Yeah, look, like the thing is when you go like bargain basement shopping, I think a lot of people were kind of, let's say, skeptical that this plan was going to work. But it's the NHL and it's like goalies that have had some amount of success in the pat.

Like Samsonov was good last year for the Leafs, right? Not in the playoffs, but, you know, everywhere else. And I don't know, like the idea that this guy could be a 920 goalie for two weeks in April, extremely feasible. But when it doesn't work out and, you know, whatever percentage chance you thought, it wasn't going to work out, it didn't work out, you know. But it was feasible. And when it doesn't, everybody goes, well, it's fucking Ily Sam. So the capitals didn't want this guy. Yeah. Well, I mean, nobody wanted him. He was on waivers.

That's what I mean, yeah. This year. Right. Not four years ago. A few weeks ago, he was on waivers and the entire league was like, no thank you. And now he's the guy who's getting sent out there to beat the Vesna winner and the guy who's better than the Vesna winner. Right. Yeah, that's the other thing about the... Can't imagine how this is going to go. That's the other thing about the Bruins goaltending situation is like, what's Linus Hallmark going to say? Well, I mean, this guy who's giving up one goal a game or whatever, I don't know what

Swayman is in the playoffs, but I know he's really fucking good. Save percentage. This is something I can look up quickly and easily here. Jeremy Swamon, 956. You think there's any goalie on earth that should be like I should be starting over this guy? Did you see the quote from Swamen that's, it's an old quote, but it got circulated yesterday about how in his draft year, I guess the Leafs were talking. talking to him constantly.

And he was like, oh, this team's going to pick me. And then in the fourth round, they get up there and they picked a different goalie. And then the Bruins took him with the next pick. That's really funny. Now I get a look up with this other goalie is. Yeah, the goalie, I was Ian Scott, I want to say. And he has never played in the NHL off. Oh, he's had injuries.

He, I mean, he was a strong prospect who. Is that the guy, is that the guy from anthrax? That's right. Wow. Isn't that guy, doesn't he have a name like that? I would not know. Well, I just Googled anthrax guy, and now it's about the 2001 anthrax attacks. What if I had banned?

Scott Ian, so I was close. Okay. I was around it, you know? But yeah, I mean, Swamen was just like so obviously a guy that was going. places from day one in college and even in the USHL. But, I mean, it's funny that that's like a funny coincidence. But, you know, you can go and be like, oh, Vegas, they could have taken Swamen earlier in that round.

At 96, they took a different goalie. Never heard of this guy, Maxima. But it was just the fact that they told it that he was saying. Yeah, yeah. No, I understand. They were talking to me like, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to be a leaf. Real question. You do a complete redraft of the 2017 draft, which is a good draft, by the way.

I'm looking at this now. A lot of changes to the draft order, I would say. They didn't get it exactly right? Well, no, I mean, like, okay, Macquar at four. It feels like you probably should have taken Macar at one instead of whoever the actual number one guy was, which was Nico Hescher. And that's a guy I like, but, like, just. Jesus Christ, Gail McCar, you know. Elias Patterson, Mira Heiskenin, Jason Robertson, Nico Heeshire, Jake Ottinger, Jeremy Swamon, Robert Thomas.

Like, this is a really good draft, you know? But I do wonder, like, if you were doing a full redraft, where do you take Swayman? It might be a top 10 pick, knowing what we know now. By the way, you forgot Nick Suzuki, number one overall pick from that group. By point shares, according to hockey reference, he is two slots below swayman. Marty Natchez, the guy ahead of him. A big guy. He's a good player.

We can sure talk about something else. We can sure talk about something else. How about that Kane's Islanders series? Got any big thoughts on that one? I mean, credit the Islanders, man. They didn't quit on it, but Carolina is a far better team. No great insight Just how she goes

I don't I don't have any any big takes on this series It's gone About as much as Or as well as I expected For the Islanders I figured they'd win a game

Maybe too They can still do that You know But What do you think of the Islanders Goaltending situation It's weird man I would

That's the one thing You wouldn't have predicted Obviously That because I mean this this even going into the series even knowing that they'd you know kind of rid and viral mob down the stretch you would go well you know what

Carolina better team top to bottom but got a little is Rocahoun he gets red hot look out the worst save percentage of any of the 23 goalies to appear in the playoffs 786 he's only played 27 minutes yeah well that's that's the thing I mean they go

Varlam off for the first couple of games. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Even that to me is surprising, but hey, okay, Patrick Juan knows a thing or two about goaltending. I get it. And then they pull him in game three and Sorokin comes in. You're like, okay, well, this is it. This is the, this is, that's it for, and they go back to him in game four. Understandably in the- It's because Sorokin was horrible. But at some point, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I guess. Hey, you want to talk about a contract that hasn't kicked in yet. Ilya Sorokin's big money extension goes into effect next year. And might be some teams looking for a goalie. Yeah. I don't know. Do you want to sell as low as humanly possible on a goalie you thought was, who for two or three years there was legitimately the best goalie in the league? You want to sell as low as humanly possible on that?

Remember when they were talking about, oh, maybe the Canucksal Trade Demko? Remember that? Mm-hmm. I'll say this, though. We talked last week about Varlamov. He was the hot hand coming into the playoffs because he was like 960 in his previous 10 games or whatever the number was.

But Turokin was like 945. He was also playing great hockey. Obviously, like, you just kind of... If you're the Islanders, you're just kind of got to write it off as, you know what? Who knows? Things happen. He played one game. We rode the hot hand. We're not the better team in this series. Right? Like, that is, that to me is the ultimate. The ultimate takeaway here is like they were supposed to lose this series. It wasn't supposed to be particularly close. To date, all the supposed to us have come true.

So, again, nice to get the double overtime winner, especially, I mean, so true to the Islander's spirit in the regular season. what I mean. Yep. So. I don't really have anything to. I don't know. Is there like we're basically talking Islanders past tense here? Is there any chance?

Yeah. I don't think it's likely to happen three games in a row. Mackey Barzell's been good in this series. He really has. You know, that's the other piece of it is that he could just go psycho mode for. I don't even think that, yeah, a game. I don't, I don't think that. that he's not, he's not Connor McDavid where it's like, oh, he's going to bust out like a five-assist game, no problem.

And, you know, he can do that maybe two out of the next three games. Like, Connard McDavid can do that. Nathan McKinnon can do that. Matt Barzell's a great player. He's not that level of great, you know? Hmm. So, I just think this is like an insurmountable task. And everybody kind of knew that that was the case, you know?

Like, nobody's sitting here going like, Damn, I didn't think the Islanders would get their asses beat like that. Everybody thought that. Yep. Probably including the Islanders. You know, I don't think any Islanders fan is like, we're not getting the respect we deserve here. We're keeping these games close. They are keeping them close, ish.

But, you know, ultimately, I think everybody's on the same page about what the outcome was going to be in this series. I would say so, yeah. And in all likelihood will be. Again, the Islanders could win tonight. Why not? a hockey game. And then they could win the next one. It's a hockey game.

But is that the most likely outcome by any stretch of the imagination? I don't have the like money puck or Dom's numbers up in front of me here. But I can't imagine they're like telling a good story about the Islander's future here, you know? No. I don't imagine. Jets Aves. Any thoughts here? I mean.

And it's tough on the Jets because I don't think they've been bad so much as the app. Like this is... I think this has been bad. You do? Yeah. Oh, yeah. To me, this is more about the ads being good. This is what you didn't want when you get this matchup.

Is that obviously that the good, again, like with every series, the goaltending is the is the big story because you've got what should have been in a normal. edge for Winnipeg hasn't been that, especially after the first game. But the rest of it is just the avalanche look like a recent Stanley Cup winner. They certainly do. On a per game basis, Connor Hellebuck has faced 4.2-ish, 4.3-ish maybe expected goals per game. Can you win playing that kind of hockey? Yep. That's not very often unless your goalie stands on his head.

And like he's a goalie where you would say, if any goalie can stand on his head, it's Connor Hallibuck in this season, right? Okay, let's see here. So the Jets are giving up 4.33 expected goals per 60. in the regular season, the worst expected goals per 60 against in the league was the San Jose Sharks at 3.66. So that's not great. They're a full like two-thirds of a goal worse than the Sharks.

And you're right. A lot of that is like the avalanche are really good at getting open and finding lanes and like Hale McCarr can go. through nine guys sometimes if he wants to. All that's true. But when I was writing about this this weekend, I went back and watched every goal they had scored against Connor Hellebuck in that series so far. And I'll just read you my brief little descriptions of how they scored those goals.

I would defy any goalie in the world to be able to deal with this from any team, let alone a team with as much finishing talent as the Colorado Avalanche. First, the first goal he gives up in the series, Valeri Nchuschen just beats him clean from the right face off dot. There was maybe a guy in front of him got in the way, but like a puck that he has to stop. own zone turnover like at the goal line to a guy right in front of the net. Unstoppable shot. Nathan McKinnon beats him clean from the left faceoff dot. Again, he'd probably like that back, but it's Nathan McKinnon. What can you do?

Deflection on a power play point shot. Screened out on a power play point shot. The fourth chance shot at the side of the net on a six on five play. A goal right off the draw on like a set faceoff play. A tip at the top of the crease. A third chance try on a puck that Halebuck himself mishandled. A breakaway, a rebound goal from eight feet out, another screen power play point shot, another like goal mouth scramble where they didn't pick up their guy.

A two-on-one, a deflection, a pass from behind the goal to a wide open guy five feet from the crease. A tip at the top of the crease. The kale-McCarr goal where he went through everybody on the ice. and a third chance goal at the top of the crease on the power play. No goal is stopping most of those shots, right? And do they need him to be better? Sure. But you can't be like two-thirds of a goal worse,

or two-thirds of an expected goal, I should say, worse than the San Jose Sharks and like expect anything good to happen for you. Against any team, let alone a team that should be finishing more than that and has. So to me, I, you know, I think they've played horrible fucking hockey in their own end. Horrible. I don't know what else to say.

Yeah. I mean, that's, you're making a pretty convincing case. Again, it's sort of, to me, it's the difference between playing horrible versus the other team playing well. I'm not saying the abs aren't playing well. I think both can be true. I think that the Jets are letting a lot of stuff happen to them and the abs are converting on a lot of those opportunities. It's just,

this is kind of what I would have been worried about if I had been betting on this series coming in of just like Colorado will find a way to completely break the Jets defense and then all the goaltending in the world won't matter. Yeah. Yeah. Because we all said it was,

We all said it was a blip. Game one, seven to six game or whatever the final was. As far as Hellebuck's side of it. Yeah. Yeah. And now like Georgiev, that was the blit for him. He's been awesome since then. He's been fine since then.

Yeah. He's done what you need to do. Yep. And, you know, when you're generating four plus goals, expected goals per 60, you don't need your goal to be anything better than fine. You really don't. So, you know, to me, look, Georgieev's giving up four goals in three games since that horrible game won. And if you're, if that's what you're going to get, I mean, you don't even need to be scoring four goals a game or whatever the abs of average since then.

Four goals are three games. You feel like everyone would have agreed that if Colorado's got the goaltending edge, they're not losing this. series. Yeah. And I don't know, no, no. I still don't think it's over. I really don't, but. I think, I think if, uh, if tonight go, I mean, if tonight goes how the other ones went,

obviously, you know, the series is definitely over. But, um, yeah, I, I just, I, I really like to see a little bit more out of that, uh, that Winnipeg offense. I don't know that they have it in them, though. We will find out. It's true. Uh, Preds Canucks. Crushing, crushing loss on, on Sunday, man. That is, that's as bad as I've, as I've seen, especially under the circumstances. You know, you're facing a third string goaltender. Yeah, humiliating.

Whole mice, you know, you got to think like, this is right there for us. And, man, full credit, full credit to the Canucks. That's a hell of a comeback, but yikes. Yeah, the, the, the predators, I wouldn't say the Canucks won that game so much as the Predators were like, by all means, you know what? We feel bad about the goalie thing. We're going to let you just, what did they score like three goals in five and change, something like that? Yep. To win that game?

Well, they scored, yeah, twice in the last two minutes or something like that, yeah. And then right away in overtime. And look, I mean, at the same time, it's, you know, they're six seconds away from closing it out. and we're all talking about, hey, this is a series and Vancouver's goalies are heard. And, you know, we're probably all picking Nashville. But that, boy, that's a, that's a real tough one. Brutal.

And like, look, I don't know what the, what the, like, numbers were coming into the series. But this definitely did feel like one that was most, I guess, like prime for an upset, maybe you'd say. Yep. And, you know, obviously the Preds, one of the hottest teams in the league in the last third of the season or whatever it was. And the Canucks kind of, I don't want to say stumbled into the playoffs, but like coasted into the playoffs for sure. And then if you add in, you know, the Canucks have used three different goalies.

You would have said, oh, this is the Predators to lose then. Yep. Hasn't worked out that way. And I think to me what it boils down to is, The Canucks have the star power that the Predators simply do not. Even with Pedersen, not really doing very much in this series, you know, you just look at like, you know, they have Besser. They have Lindholm. They have Quinn Hughes.

There's been some talk that Peterson could be playing through something. That wouldn't surprise me at all, yeah. Obviously, many, many players are. at this point of year, but just that he does seem to be laboring a little bit. Absolutely.

But yeah, that's one of those things where it's like, oh, like I said, that wouldn't surprise me at all if Pedersen was playing hurt or sick or whatever. But it doesn't change the fact that that's what's going on. And it just makes it understandable. It doesn't make it not a problem, you know? and I'm as big of a Patterson backer outside of Vancouver as you're going to find.

But even like if he's really playing through something that bad, I don't know, man. Maybe you don't have him in the lineup. It's the playoffs. So I get it. I get it. I get to do it. No. Again, I'm a huge fan of his.

And I was so excited to see him. like playing in actual games that actually matter. And, yeah, the Predators just haven't been able to play their game, I guess you'd say. Kids Rabbit is absolutely furious. It's realized Patterson take. Just absolutely losing its mind back there. I'm assuming people can hear that. Yeah, I can hear.

I will snap its neck during the next ad break. So don't worry, everyone. We don't have another break this episode. So, yeah, we're just going to, we're just going to have to deal with it. Is this a situation where you can, like, pick him up and pat him and stuff like that and they'll calm down? Or you just have to leave him to his own devices. Rabbits don't do that. Rabbits just randomly decide that they have to completely.

All that. I'm going to, I'm going to go shake the game. I'm going to, should I mute the mics and nobody hears, but. Hey, hey. See, now I do that with my dog And he will just like 45% of the time be like Why can you go fuck yourself?

How about that? That's the... I think the rate is a lot higher For rabbits. Now, is this one of these rabbits? He's got like the floppy ears The big pointy bunny ears. He's got the pointy.

It's got the pointy ears. I feel like maybe that's how you know He's got a bad attitude. You know what I mean? I don't feel like a flop-eared bunny would be doing this. to you. You know what?

Well, he's going to be something. Something's going to be floppy in a few minutes. The Bart Simpson of, you know, he's telling you to eat your shorts. He's got the spiky hair, the frigging shinghot in his back pocket, underachiever and proud of it. That's the rabbit. Yeah, again, this is another one where it's like, well, what else can you say? The preds are just a little overwhelmed, I think.

It's tough to see. But again, nobody really thought the Preds were like, gonna win the series really. Well, I mean, I think the- Well, again, I said it was like, partly because we've just all been waiting for the big regression crash to come in Vancouver. Yeah, and I mean, it did.

That's what it did the entire second half of the year. I think someone said their PDO in the second half or whatever, like some significant segment of the second half was like dead even 1,000. which is money. Nicely done. Yeah. But like, like I said, I think this was the series that felt the most prime for an upset.

And yet, like, how it's played out, you're, you just kind of have to go. Yeah, I mean, of course. Yep. Yeah, I think that's fair. Our team is winning. But again, like six seconds away from a completely different view. Absolutely. That's the playoffs.

But isn't that kind of what the Canucks showed us all year? Where they're like, we're really good. And you're like, really? And they're like, well, not really. You know what I mean? Like that's good enough. They were good enough all year. And like, that's nice to be, obviously.

But I'll say this. It is like the Rangers, the Panthers. The Canucks are the team where I think it most is good for, really good news for them that they seem like they're going to get out of this round pretty quick. It doesn't feel like this one's going seven. And I say this all the time. If you lose in six, you got your ass kicked. Although.

There's a very fine line for me. When they get there, I know there's going to be Canucks fans going. Finally, we will get some respect. No one's picking you in the next round, given who you're going to be up against. Yeah, let's talk about it. King's Oilers. It takes us too.

Yeah. They look good. The Orioles look good. And I got to say, I hate, I hate that it's a good take because of what it says about what the NHL is. But the take that, hey, winning a one-nothing playoff game is in a way more impressive than scoring seven goals is kind of right. The fact that they can win, I mean, that. Them specifically. It's sort of, yeah.

It's that we've used this before, but it's that like the Raptors figuring out how to turn the doorknob. Yeah, that's exactly right. Now, I will say, I don't think that like shutting down this king's offense is the most impressive thing in the world. But for the Oilers specifically, it is, if that makes sense. Like, you know, any other team, you know, Colorado holds. holds this King's team to zero goals on however many shots, you're like, well, sure, okay, no problem. They can do that. The oilers, you're just like, they can do that?

Wow, that's crazy. That ain't good for everybody else. Yeah. And again, I don't know how transferable it is like when they play Vancouver in the next round, presumably, the way things are trending. if they play Vancouver, let's say. I think it's a lot harder to see them holding the Canucks to shut out. Hmm. Let alone the Avs or Vegas or whoever.

What was your take in the, a week ago on the Kings? Just Kings are dead. Was that it? Yeah, I think that's right. You don't. Anything at all making you question. that? Do we need to do even the cursory? Like, here's what? Well, I'll say this in the King's favor. One thing they did was they held the Edmonton

Oilers to one goal. Not, they didn't score any themselves, so that's a problem. But like, if they can... Big Save Dave. Big Save Dave. Look, if you're... 12 Save Dave. If your coach is coming out of the dugout and he's tapping his arm and big save Dave gets in that one last warm-up. pitch, you know, the crack of the ball entering the catcher's glove. And here comes Big Save Dave and they're playing Enter Sandman. It's like, that's not an intimidating situation if you're the oilers. Yeah.

This guy wasn't even good enough to be a goalie for the flames. It felt a game early to do that. Like, I'm a big fan of when things are going off the rails, you switch goalies just to give yourself something to say that we change. something and so that if we do get, but it almost worked. I'll say this. It flat out worked, but the offense didn't. You know what I mean?

It flat out worked in the sense that it seemed to terrify the King's roster into playing the most defensive game of the series. But what I'm saying is if you're the Kings, you have to be looking at that going. Well, I mean, pretty rare that though that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Oilers only scored one goal in a game. How many times do you think that happened this year? I'm going to look it up real quick. I do not know, but I'm going to say not many.

Not many is probably correct. Let's see here. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten games in the regular season. So 11 total. Pretty rare. Pretty actually like impressive accomplishment. But to your point, were they playing so well defensive? because they were just like,

we're not allowed to, coach says we're not allowed to go in the offensive zone. Yeah. Could have been. Could have been a little bit of that. Could have been. So, yeah, let's talk about

some other stuff happened in the league this week. Dave Haxdoll got fired. Yep. Not shockingly, I don't think. I saw some people saying it was surprising. And I was just like, it is to you? The fact that he had an extension,

the fact that he did get them to the playoffs last year and win a round. But, well, I don't know. I mean, a lot of us, the biggest surprise of the Dave Haxdell era was still that there was Dave Haxdellar, right? Like, that he was the pick to be the coach. And I would say given that, he exceeded expectations as far as where most of us thought that was going to go.

But, yeah. Is there a scenario where the crash? and are real contenders and he's the coach? Maybe not. I'll say that I'll, this is how I think about it. Is this is an acknowledgement that last year was smoking mirrors.

Right? Like, they're like people go, oh, he got them to the second round last year. And this is, this is Ron Francis going, yeah, and it was fucking not real. Like, I just saw, I just watched 82 games.

of this. And, you know, it became very apparent to me very quickly that whatever success we were having, and again, I think it's the fourth highest shooting percentage of the advanced stats era, not replicable. Yeah. I applaud Ron Francis for seeing through the bullshit on it, honestly. Do you want to at all engage in any irresponsible Rod Byrne to more? speculation. Well, so I wouldn't have. And yet, the Kevin Weeks tweet. Yeah.

I'll read it to the people who didn't, who didn't see it. There could be one current NHL head coach that might potentially hit or surpass Mike Babcock's industry leading $7 million per year deal. He signed with the Maple Leafs, uh, zipper emoji, a mouse zipper emoji and, uh, eyeball emoji. It would take plenty of factors for it to align, but plots are thickening. Hashtag hockey X, hashtag hockey Twitter. Thank you for the hashtags. Yeah.

Now I know. Now it's so easily findable to me. That got my wheels spinning a little bit because I hadn't really considered the Rod Brindamore thing. I don't know that Seattle's digging between the couch cushions. Like if they fired the coach and knowing what the problem was. I don't think that they can then say, and you know who will fix it as Rod Brindamore. And yeah, it'll take $7 million, but or whatever, the number is $7.5 million. $8 million. I don't know that that's doable. You know what I mean?

Like I think that that's them going. The problems are deeper than whatever the coach was. And yet it does kind of feel like Kevin Weeks doesn't say that unless somebody on one side or the other is whispering it. to him. And it could be as simple as, I don't know who Rod Brandemore's agent is, but if they're just going, hey, Tom Dunden needs a little kick in the ass to get this negotiation moving. So let's vote this out there. The other thing about this is there's only one other team currently that does not have a head coach, and that's the San Jose Sharks. If we don't count the interim situations. That's true. I forgot about it.

the interims. There are a few of those. But let's just say, I don't think, I don't think the Ottawa senators are going seven million on a coach. Are the devils? Are the devils? Um, are the kings? That's what I mean, like...

I don't feel like the blues would, but... There are, I'm just saying that there are teams to be that level of motive. Rob Brynoy did play for the blues now that I think about it. I'm just saying there are teams that are, beyond Seattle that have reason to be motivated to spend a lot of money on a coach. Yeah. And a lot of people are making the connection, obviously, Ron Francis, to Carolina. Yeah, of course.

But as our buddy Sarah Sivian has pointed out, wasn't necessarily the rosiest relationship between Francis and Brindamore. It's not like they were best pals. Right. from a coach and GM perspective. Obviously, we're teammates and, you know, all that nice stuff. Well, the other thing, too, is I feel like, speaking of teams with deep pockets, the Toronto Maple Leafs are about to need a coach. Hmm.

And they sure are. And here's the thing about that is who the fuck wants to take over coaching this team of losers? You know what I mean? maybe it takes a little extra enticement. I will chip in. I will do the old, you know, I'm the kid Go fund me for a billboard. My $1 of allowance I've saved up to chip in to get the puppy.

Just forget about coming over and coaching. Just let Rod Brindamor run one practice with these guys. Let that psychopath come into that room and deal with these. guys for just an hour. I can't remember. I think it was Justin Bourne pointed out recently where after, oh, and I guess Buffalo doesn't have a, oh, no, they did hire a coach. Yikes, they did.

That's right. I forgot about that. That came and went in my mind. But no, what Justin Bourne said was like the thing that I keep thinking about with Buffalo making that coaching change was that there's a quote from a quote from Casey Middlest. after the trade where he's like, damn, Colorado practice is hard. And I wonder how much of that is going on. Like guys leave Toronto and go, fuck, man.

They're like trying in practice. You know? I mean, we all, and there was no basis to this other than, you know, we all have eyes and can connect dots. But the fact that Ryan O'Reilly got the hell out of Toronto so quickly, I wonder about that too. Yeah. Oh, well, good job. Hey, welcome to the NHL Seattle. You fired your coach, and we found a way to turn it into a discussion about the Maple Leafs.

I just think, I think the reason I bring all this up is I think everyone's immediately thinking Seattle, and I'm saying that there's a bigger world out there. That's all. Could be San Jose. It probably won't be San Jose. Why would you spend a bunch of money on a coach when you're going to be bad next year, or for the next two or three years, quite frankly? unless they win the next two draft lotteries, in which case everything evens up. Vezna finalist announced Hellebuck Demko,

Bovrovsky, only notable because Bobrovsky is in there, and it's like, really? Yeah. We're still counting the wins thing, huh? Okay. Yeah. And again, the Vezna is voted on by the GMs. I mean, Helibok's going to win.

I can't get worked up over who finishes is a distant third. Correct. But Brodsky instead of whoever you think it should have been. Hellebuck's going to win. If he doesn't, then yeah, go ahead and get mad. I think, I can't remember who posted it, but someone posted like the expected goals models for like six different sites

and all but one of them had Hellebuck one. And I think the one that didn't had Hellebuck two. Or goals saved above expected, I should say. And it's like, well, yeah, there you. you go. I think this should be as close to unanimous as these things kind of get. Vesna's the one they don't release any voting totals, right? Do they do it for Vesna? I'm not actually... I feel like, isn't there one award where they don't? Maybe... Oh, no, they just don't. Yeah, maybe that. I don't remember now. But anyway, yeah, Hella Buck certainly deserves it, but it's just

funny to see in 2024 that a bunch of GMs are still like, yeah, that guy had so many fucking wins. I mean, they did it last year. The guy who won the Vesna last year didn't really deserve it, but it's And it's not just he has a lot of wins. It's also he was really good

in the playoffs last year. He's a winner. That's not supposed to count, but it kind of does. Anyway, one last thing here. RIP Bob Cole. A guy that obviously I don't have nearly as much familiarity with as you do. Canada's been sculling would be the way I had. The best to ever do it, the soundtrack to the sport.

Just an absolute legend. And yeah, he made it to 90. The guy, it was a hell of a life lived. And one that will, I mean, It's a great thing about that job, man. You live on because virtually every Canadian hockey highlight of decades has got his perfect voice on top of it. So just an absolute legend greatest to ever do it. Absolutely.

Why don't you hit him with the plugs and let's get out of here? I got a butt. I've written a ton of stuff over the last week. I don't remember all of it. Same here, man. I don't know what I've got coming up this week to be determined. But find me at the athletic. I will be on the Traders podcast with Sean Gentilly tomorrow.

Reacting to tonight's Leafs game, perhaps doing post-mortems, perhaps not. And yeah, as I said, I was also on the ESPN show with Gorg yesterday. So if you miss that, check it out. It was fun. That's nice, yeah. Greg made a joke about we were missing a cranky Boston hipster.

I didn't really get the joke, but I thought. Classic Greg. Classic. He'll say anything, this guy. Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you, though. E.P.Rinkside.com, obviously. I am in the midst of doing my series on what teams that get eliminated from the playoffs should do or will do, perhaps, in the summer. And those are all, you know, for example, I've written the Islanders and the Maple Leafs and the Predators and the Kings so far, for example, in addition to the two teams that have actually been eliminated.

just because I like to have them Basically I like to hit publish the second that game ends on those So I could have two columns running tonight for all I know But yep, it's just one of those things And then yeah, all my normal stuff Take Town and what we learned and all that kind of stuff Keeping that up throughout the playoffs as well So check all that out

And then check out the Puck Soup Patreon Last week, me, Sean and the aforementioned Gorp We did a listener-requested episode Where I asked the listeners of Puck Soup on the Patreon A bunch of survey questions And then we played a family feud-style game To see, you know, like who, what the best jersey number is And that kind of thing

We had a lot of fun, people really liked it So check out suit, I think we called it, over on the Puckoo, Patreon, and then all the other bonus stuff that we do every week over there will continue for the foreseeable future. Very fast breaking news. We have the Calder nominees.

Who we got? Who we got? Conrad, Brock Faber, do you want to guess who the third was? I mean, this is a two-horse race, right? It's an absolute two-horse race, so congratulations to Luke Hughes for getting that. Would not have Pulled Luke Hughes is my third one. But, yeah, I had that checked.

Can't argue with any of that. Again, not going to, not going to have strong opinions on who finishes third in a race. But it's going to be Bader in favor. Bader's going to win. But we'll see how close it ends up being. Probably should in my. He should. Yeah.

Right. Mm-hmm. if we're being honest. Let's see. I'll just look really quickly. Rookie War over on a... You know what? The league leader in rookie war.

And it's hard for me to say that this guy didn't get screwed honestly. It's Tyson Forster from Philadelphia. He had a great year. Two wins above replacement. Brock Faber, 1.8? Tough. Tough. But, you know, Connor Bedard 1.2

and like 15 fewer games or whatever it is. Hard to argue. Sure is. So there you go, folks. Thanks so much for listening. And we'll talk to you later. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.