Puck Soup - Cherry Bomb

Episode Date: November 14, 2019

The boys look at the real reasons Don Cherry was fired from "Hockey Night in Canada" and offer the top 10 options to replace him on Sportsnet. Plus, Sidney Crosby's injury, Ilya Kovalchuk vs. Kings, the Devils' collapse and Taylor Hall, Islanders surge, Leafs stink, "The Mandalorian" review (no spoilers) and the top 10 TV shows of the last decade. Sponsored by Manscaped and Seat Geek!

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you'll commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wichenski of the Worldwide Leader ESPN, not only in sports, but also in everything else that you can get on Disney Plus. and I don't know if you saw boys, but Disney Plus is available, and according to Adam Schaefter, it will change lives. Did he say that? That's cool.

That's really cool. It has already redefined the way that I do not engage with pop culture. Perfect. Right. You guys. Yahoo is Yahoo. Sean McNeagh, the Athletic. You're in Puck Soup.

We have to start, obviously, with. the biggest news in hockey of the week, news that I think a lot of us are really frustrated by and angry about. Simby's injury. No, it's not that. It's something where you think you know a situation and then something happens and the situation gets turned on its ear and you just get really upset about it. And I'm, of course, talking about the fact that that one dude who stole the other dude's ice cream, they knew each other. It wasn't strangers.

It was, they were friends. That is the ultimate example of people who are wrestling fans saw that fucking work coming a mile down the road. It's a super, bro. Oh my God, that's so funny. Like, you didn't even, yeah, of course he fucking. Dude, I was, I was just shocked, like, absolutely jaw-dropping that this wasn't some stupid marketing thing that, like, that we just found out that they knew each other and kind of did it on purpose. and it wasn't like a, like some sad viral marketing campaign for some ice cream or whatever. Yeah, that's where I met with social media.

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's another. It didn't even occur to me that that might have been like set up by, by Eadies or some ice cream company. There is still, I got to be honest, there is still like 30% of me that thinks the hurricanes did this as a viral marketing thing. And then like the backlash against it of like, please don't let this be stupid viral marketing. they were like, yeah, let's just tiptoe away from it. No, I reached, I actually reached out to the hurricanes the day after this happened,

and I'm like, you know, did you have a hand in this? I was like, I was like, Terry Benedict at the end of Ocean's 11. Yeah. To George Clinton would be like, did you have a hand in this? They're a bunch of jerks. I don't know if you heard that. They are a bunch of jerks, but they said that they didn't set this up. And I think they would have admitted it if they had.

And at that point, I was like staring at my Fox Mulder I Want to Believe poster and being like, maybe this was some dick who stole some other dude's ice cream. But then I believe it was Emily Kaplan, my ESPN and ice partner, who pointed out that who holds an ice cream cone that way? Like that guy was kind of holding it in sort of a quasi-Lady Liberty stance while he was looking at that dude's phone and just kind of putting it out there to make it available for someone to steal. And so she immediately thought it was a work.

I was hoping that it was a shoot, but it turned out to be somewhere in the middle where I think it wasn't a setup necessarily, but these two dudes definitely knew each other. And it wasn't a stranger taking someone's ice cream and then walking away with a, which would have been amazing. Disappointed. Okay. Good show. Thanks, everybody. Oh, oh, oh. Well, no, it says here on the rundown, there's something that happened with Dom Sherry.

Oh, no, wait, Don Cherry. Ah, there it is. Sorry, I can't hear you very well because my country is on fire right now. Well, that's fantastic. I'm in California and you're in Canada. We're both on fire right now. Look, we're not going to, everybody's read everything that they possibly could want to read on the Don Cherry stuff. I think Ryan and I have probably been banging the drum for a while for him to go, right?

You've probably been banging it longer than I have as far as time has passed by. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Sean came on ESPN and Ice and was very eloquent about his feelings. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't, I must have missed a fucking call on that one. It was because he's Canadian.

It was because I assumed that I knew what I was going to get out of you if you came on the dumb podcast about this issue. So you can listen to that for his more nuanced thoughts. Thank you for having me on that. And I just, in my head, I'm trying to picture traveling back to like, 1993 and telling teenage Sean that someday in the future, Don Cherry is going to get fired.

And the two people who will get to talk on ESPN about it are going to be you and Barry Melrose. And just watch that little teenage brain explode. I enjoyed having Barry on about it. Like I thought, I know that, listen, it's an unsafe environment right now for thoughts of people that maybe have an affinity for Don Chair. but understand why this should happen. I think it's a black and white world, and I think that you know, you have to come down with the banhammer right now on Don Cherry

and not really talk about it with much nuance. There's a lot to unpack here. I don't know how much we really want to do because it's been beaten the death by everybody this week. But I will say this. I'm really surprised there hasn't been more discussion about the kind of inside baseball on why this probably happened. I'm surprised that.

there isn't more discussion about, oh, SportsNet literally clipped, you know, five other people in the last year that make a lot of money. And then, you know, saw an opportunity where public sentiment had turned so harshly against Don Cherry where they could probably do the same with him and not have to worry about bringing him back next year. Yeah, it's not bringing him back next year. I'm assuming they're still paying him this year. So I don't think they're actually saving the millions of dollars that some people think they are. And I feel like this was probably going to be his last year anyways, but I felt that for a few years now. So yeah, exactly. I would say if I'm sports net and I'm thinking I want to get rid of Don Cherry and I'm just looking for a time to do it, I do it in the off season. I announce it like over a long weekend in August kind of thing.

I don't do it in the middle of the season, but when this situation presents itself. But what you said though is true, though, like, in order to do it in the offseason, Don has to not want to come back. And I think that was the issue this summer. Like, in theory, they probably don't want them back this year. You know, they're cutting costs. They're trying to reshape the way that their broadcast looks. And they probably didn't necessarily want it back, which is why, you know, he basically told, I think, a columnist or somebody,

oh, yeah, I'm coming back. And at no point, it was Steve Simmons. Well, Steve Simmons reported that Cherry might not be back. And yeah, I know we all, every time you say Steve Simmons, everyone does their hot dog jokes and all the other stuff. But Steve Simmons typically knows what he's talking about with this sort of thing. So I don't think he just pulled that out of the air. That was either he got hold of something that hadn't been fully decided yet or maybe even got hold of a trial balloon someone was putting out there. And then Cherry said, no, I'm coming back.

And at that point, and then for months there was no official word. Like they never actually came out and said that this is that. So yeah, there's still part of me that wonders if maybe this summer wasn't supposed to be the, and then the way it played out, they felt like they didn't have a choice. And then it could easily play out the same way next summer with, you know, Cherry inviting himself back. And then you can't, you can't say no because then he's, then, then you've got another, you know, not as much of a firestorm as this, but you got another firestorm to deal with.

And, you know, the other thing too about this that I'm surprised hasn't been talked about enough is all of those changes that were made. by SportsNet for fiscal reasons, allegedly, are also being made because no one likes their product. Like, you know, they got rid of Kiprios. They got rid of John Shannon. They made these sort of cosmetic changes to their coverage. A lot of people don't like their product, but a lot of people do. And this is the sort of thing, and whether it's Don Cherry or and or whether it's Hockyine Canon in general, and I know this is going to come across as kind of a condescending thing to say but I just need to remind everyone, like your Twitter feed is not real life.

And the people that you have picked to follow on social media aren't necessarily everybody. And the fact that, you know, nobody you follow likes Don Cherry or nobody you follow has any problem with what Don Cherry said. Like, it's, that doesn't mean that that's what real life is. And the same with the bigger picture. Right.

There's a lot of people who are perfectly happy to have Don Cherry, at one intermission and Brian Burke in the other and more angry white guys scowling and pounding the table. And they think that's just great. It's a tough job to put this show together in this country these days because there's a wide spectrum of what people would like to see out of the show. Sure. And that's why they hired a younger guy who wore leather pants and then they got rid of him real quickly and bought back Ron McLean. Like it's, you have to placate the people that want a certain thing out of Hockenet and Canada. I will say that the numbers bear out that people much prefer the personalities on TSN,

and I think the personality gap is one of the reasons why SportsNet reshape their coverage. And Don Cherry, while I'm sure extremely popular, is also limiting, as we saw in this whole firestorm this week, in the sense that when you are, look, this is my conspiracy theory on it. I think the Toronto Raptors changed the math for a lot of people. I think the people at Rogers and the people in Canadian media saw the multicultural makeup of that crowd at Jurassic Park and all across the country and said to themselves, what the fuck are we doing with hockey? Like, why doesn't our audience look like that? Why don't we have young people of color coming out en masse to watch the Leafs in that same area? Like, why is it different?

I think they realized the world had changed all of a sudden. And they had to change with it. And, you know, that's, I think one of the reasons why this thing, the wave on this thing crested the way it did is because it's not simply just Don Cherry said something offensive. Because he said it before. For fuck's sake, we're six years removed from saying, him saying there shouldn't be women in the fucking locker room. And he was still on the air. I think the problem is he's finally said something that's bad for business. And that's why he's not there anymore.

He said something that's bad for business that limits the audience that you can't. have, you know, half of your marketing team trying to pitch to young Raptors fans, you can't have hockey night Punjabi on your network and have a guy being like, you people. You can't have it. They can't coexist in the same market. And I think that's why this thing was different. Yeah. And that's correct. Yeah. And look, I mean, I do think that what he said this time was worse than what he said in the past. I know that's dangerous territory to get into because he said things that were misogynistic. He said things that were xenophobic and he said things that were against French Canadians. And if you're in one of those groups, you kind of go, well, wait a second,

well, how come when he took aim at me, it wasn't, how come you thought this was worse than that? And I don't want to get into ranking and trying to sort of divide things up into tears or whatever. With that having been said, here's the top 10th thing. No. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, this guy has been. he has been offending people for a very long time. Ever, yeah. Even if you put that aside, here's the other thing that I think contributes to the context of why now.

How come this time and not last time or the time before that or the time before that is I think there's a truth here that even, I would imagine, the biggest Don Cherry fan, the biggest Don Cherry defender would have to acknowledge, which is that Don Cherry, has not been good at this job for a long time now. Correct. There was a piece, I think it was Colby Koch, wrote it in the National Post, which is a newspaper up here in Canada. I would recommend people seek it out. Because he makes what I think is an important point in helping people understand

Don Cherry and who he was and why he matters. When Don Cherry first started doing this in the 80s and even well into the 90s, he was really, really good. at being a hockey analyst. Even if you didn't like the politics that back then were not a big part of the shtick, even if you didn't like the views on fighting and by, like, he was really good at telling stories, at relating what kind of stuff might be going on inside of a room because he had been in one only a few years ago.

And understanding the culture and understanding even some of the exes and O's. Like they used to have him like, Coach's corner used to be him just, standing there and breaking down plays. He was really, really good at it and was very influential, not just in how hockey is covered, but sports broadcasting in general. And, you know, he was very good at this all through the 80s and well into the 90s, but that still leaves us like 20 more years of Don Cherry just increasingly, and I say this as someone you guys know who has a lot of time for this guy, just morphing into this caricature

and and you know the the the outfits going from being flashy to just being over the top ridiculous and the you know just the the yelling and the getting confused and forgetting names and all of this stuff to the point where he you know he he wasn't good for a long time and so if if don cherry had walked in the door in 2002 and auditioned with this act he would have never got anywhere near TV because it wasn't it wasn't anywhere near good enough back then let alone these days so i think that's part of it too like why how come they didn't get rid of them in in the 90s when he was saying that russian players were pukes and somebody should go and break thomas sandstrom's arm because he was really good back then and really popular and these days he's he was maybe popular although not to the

same extent but he wasn't good at it anymore and and that's right matters right before you jump in i just want to say. I think the other difference is that, and Dave Hodge pointed this out, the things you mentioned about like breaking Europeans' legs and shit, that's, that's kind of hockey related, right? And what happened with Coach's Corner is that gradually it started to slip into Don Cherry's political bully pulpit and the more sort of non-stick to sports topics that would be broached there, the worst it got for him and the worst the segment got. Which is just a reminder that stick to sports has never meant stick to sports. It always means stick to sports or don't say anything I don't agree with.

Don't speak, don't speak truth to power, please. We're begging you. It means it means don't express any non-sports views that I don't agree with. Because none of the people who yell stick to sports at Deadspin were yelling that at Don Cherry. And probably vice versa. So it's, right.

Ryan, what's your take? Fuck Don Cherry. There it is. That's the whole take. Good riddance. I do want to say that part of my education this week on this issue, you was I didn't realize how many people in Canada were aware of Tucker Carlson and understood what Don Cherry going on that show.

Are you kidding? Of course. Dude. I don't know. I don't know if you're aware, but your country's kind of important and kind of leaves a big footprint. We're aware. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I knew that him going on Fox News would make sense, right? Because like I remember being in Canada when the Sun had their network and everybody being

like, it's the Fox News of Canada. So I knew you guys were cognizant of Fox News. I just didn't know if, you know, Don Cherry says something racist and goes on Tucker Carlson that the through line was that evident to my friends in the North. But apparently it is because I had everybody fucking DMing me being like, you've got to be kidding me on this Tucker Carlson business. His management of the fallout of this over the last week has been depressing. Horrendous. It's not just like because he went from, like, as bad as it was on Saturday, I still feel like, If he had come out on Sunday and either apologized or if he had said, look, I didn't mean it that way.

I stumbled over my words. I did not mean to imply that immigrants or newcomers to Canada were any less patriotic than anyone else. I did not mean to single them out for a lecture on being good Canadians. I understand why that would be very offensive and very wrong. It was not my intention to do that. I'm sorry. I am responsible for my words, but I need people to understand that I would never view it that way and I would never intentionally make that point.

I think it doesn't necessarily just blow over like it's nothing, but I think he still has a job. And he could have done it on Twitter. He could have done it anyway. And this is kind of what makes this even sadder, is that he's doing this media tour, which is basically, I think just him picking up the phone and talking to any any of his friends who want to reach out and talk to him. Yeah. But it went from, hey, I stand by what I said.

I don't apologize. I'm, you know, that's never been who I am. Which, by the way, is not a virtue. Just if anyone's, like, if you screw up, yeah, apologize. Like there's nothing wrong with, there's nothing applauseworthy of saying, I don't apologize. That's garbage. But that was his, you know, he said that for a couple days, but then suddenly it was, well, I was going to apologize, but I was going to do it on Saturday.

And then they fired me before that. And, but it had also been that they told him to apologize and he told him to go piss up a rope and that's, you know, that was. So, I mean, look, everybody, you talk about the inside baseball, like, when you see all these statements coming out on Sunday, from Ron McLean, from Sportsnet, from hockey Canada, there is no chance that this is all happening. Meanwhile, nobody has reached out to Don Cherry and said, hey, we think you should do this as well. Like, he was clearly, there was an opportunity to do it one way or another. And if he had said to them, I want to clear this up on Saturday, I think there is a chance at least that he would have been given the opportunity to do that. He didn't. And now the story is changing. And that's, that bothers me because, you know, and you can already see it.

And it's already up here in Canada. It's already. the new chapter in the ongoing never-ending culture war where everyone picks aside and it's just going back and forth trying to take a scalp. It's like you can already see people saying he got fired for saying we should wear poppies. No, he didn't. That's not true. He got fired for saying you people. No, he didn't. That's not true. He didn't say you people. If he had just said you people and everyone was offended, I would have been up there defending him. Because Don Cherry calls everybody, you people.

That's how he talks and is how he's talked for 40 years. He said, you people that come here, which is extraordinarily different and extraordinarily offensive. And you people that come here and use our resources but don't honor the country. Yes. Like, that's essentially what is. I'm all in favor. I don't like this thing we do these days where we always seem to want to ascribe the worst possible reading on people's words and never give anyone the benefit of the dope. But also, we don't have to be stupid.

Like we can we can all look at something like this. We all know what he meant. We all know what he was getting it. He said it in so many words. And so if you're one of the people out there, if like if you love Don Cherry and you're ticked off that he's not going to be on the air anymore, okay. But don't tell me it's because he said it was that we should wear poppies. And don't say it's because he said, you people. That's not true and you know it's not true.

Engage with the actual substance of the discussion if you want me to take you seriously as an honest person. And the other thing I'd say to that is also go read a few of the things that have been written this week by really, really insightful people that might not necessarily be in your same cultural echo chamber. I'm talking about Arp and Basu on The Athletic. Sinaya, our former co-worker at Yahoo with the Athletic. There's a lot of really interesting, insightful, and nuanced things written by people of color in Canada that I think express what this comment did to them. that maybe is lost if you are just looking at this thing from a strict construction reading of his comments. And I'll add to that because I'll absolutely second that. Please do go and read what both Arpon and Sinaiah both wrote.

But I'll go one further. Read what they wrote. Read what I wrote. There were three pieces on The Athletic that were opinion pieces about Don Cherry this week. and mine was one of them. All three of us kind of came down on an anti-Don Cherry side to differing degrees. Different versions of the take, different angles on it. But all pretty much wound up saying this, it was time for him to go.

Go and read all three takes and then go and read the responses to them. Read the comments. Read what people were saying on social media. And look at the last. level of anger and the level of vitro that was directed at Arpan and Sinaiah versus what me, with my nice Irish name, got. And then, and, and just think on that and reflect on that and what it means. Because I can tell you right now, I got, I got some negative feedback over the last few days.

It wasn't really that rough a ride for me. and certainly in comparison to what what our ponens and i had to deal with it wasn't even close and i don't have to sit here and pretend like i don't understand why exactly why that is so if you're the sort of person who kind of rolls your eyes at the idea that oh you know we're all just take a look at that if you don't believe me go go take a look and and actually take a minute to reflect on maybe what that says about about this conversation and and even though it it doesn't say anything good. Well, there you go.

Farewell to Don Cherry, who probably thought he was. Okay, fair to Don Cherry, who probably thought that he was indestructible when it came to comments made on Coach's Corner. But then had to realize that, in fact, Rogers had him by the Short and Curlies. Speaking of Short and Curlies, today's episode of Puck Soup is sponsored by Manxcaped. Pretty good. Number one in men's below the belt grooming. It was okay. Oh, yeah.

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just take it in a different direction. Or maybe they'll just pick somebody that's sort of a... an echo of Ron and Don. Who's to say? But I'm going to start with my top choice. Okay? And this is the one that everybody thinks is going to happen, at least half of it.

David Amber and Brian Burke. Yep. So Burke is the betting favorite to take over for Don Cherry. Clearly fits the mole of old white curmudgeon, who will say things that generate heat and be appointment viewing. And then you take some of the edge off of sports that giving cherries job to a 64-year-old white dude by having David Amber there to be the Ron McLean to Brian Brick. Right, which he already is on Burke's segments.

Right. Currently. So, and they have good chemistry. So, yes, I think if you're looking for the most seamless transition, that's it right there. I, here's the problem. I think there's a very good case to be made that whoever follows Don Cherry is doomed to failure. I agree with that.

I know on the one hand, it's, it's, this is the most valuable real estate in all of Canadian broadcasting and, and everybody should be lining up to get it. On the other hand, I, I can't imagine anybody succeeding here. And certainly, I know there's a lot and you'll probably have some suggestions along this, this, this avenue of saying, like, let's go in a different direction. Let's, let's, let's give, let's give it to somebody who's younger or let's give it somebody who's got, you know, a different voice. It's right now, it's so ugly up here with how this is played out that you're just

dooming that person of failure. And I think Burke's the one guy who might be able to succeed at it, partly because he's so similar. I think for all the things we could say about Brian Burke, I think he's a really smart guy, I could see him not wanting to do it. I could see him being like, I'm not. And I could see hockey night in Canada. being like, you know what, let's get through this season or at least the next few weeks.

Let's not have anybody come in as the Don Cherry replacement. And let's let this cool down and then take a swing at it next time. So I do wonder if Burke would even do it. I think he might be the only one who's got any chance of it not being a complete disaster. I think regardless of how good somebody is. Okay. My second choice would be you take two of the guys with the highest Q ratings on that network and put them together. and they already work together, they already have chemistry,

Jeff Merrick and Elliot Friedman. Now, I know the problem with Elliot is that he's also on the headline segment, so it might be too redundant. Maybe he can, like, wear, I don't know, a loud suit or something for the other segment to differentiate you. Okay, now we're talking. But, like, I figure if you take two really well-liked people and put him in that segment,

that maybe you can also insulate yourself from the backlash. I doubt it. I think that would be tough because it's two guys who aren't, it's, it's not former players, former coaches, that sort of thing. Like, it's two media guys. I will say, you know, Merrick is great. Both of them are great. Merrick does have experience carrying a less talented co-host to a good show. So he might, that might come in handy.

Bad, not bad. Oh, fuck you. Now we'll get off the board a little bit. Reinvention. It's got to be a certain level of reinvention. We just named some SportsNet people that could easily move over to that gig, but you need to kind of think outside the box. Like you said, get a little bit younger, reach out to new audiences. One name that has come up a few times in the derby for the new coach's corner, Paul Bissonette.

And I figure if you have this nasty on the broadcast, you simply can't have him, you know, doing his usual schick without there's somebody being to take the edge off. Carolyn Cameron is somebody who has a rising star at Sportsnet, put her with Paul Bissonette and make Bissonette your big fucking heat drawing promo cutter on the new coach's corner. Yeah, I don't know. This is such a big spotlight that I don't think you want someone in there as their first major TV job. So I'll put it that way. Putting aside whatever you may feel about Paul Bissonet and the, the work he's doing now.

Yeah, he would probably, it would probably appease a lot of the Don Cherry fans out there. But I, this is not, this can't be learning on the job sort of thing. I don't think of that. Would it bring new people to the broadcast if you had this isn't there? Maybe. It'll bring, I mean, that's the thing. There's going to be, this is the kind of thing where everybody who likes Don Cherry swears they're never going to watch again.

And everybody who doesn't like Don Cherry who swears that they haven't been watching is now going to come back. And it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the numbers and whether it even has an effect. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. It would certainly potentially bring in a younger audience. I don't know if I'm, you know, if I was female or person of color or whatever else, I don't know that Paul Bisanette would be the guy that would bring me back in. But it would probably be an improvement over what they had. And it would also be someone that would carry on the grand tradition of having to apologize for a shit, you say, that, you know, crosses the line.

About Russians. So, yeah. About Russians. Right. Back to the Soviet. Fuck. I revisited that tweet with all the Kovulchuk stuff going on this week. That was really great.

Oh, which we have to talk about later as well. I completely forgot. How about you go away from any sort of media type at all and just give it to the players? Everybody loves this trend of just having a couple of ex-players shoot the shit. I know that he just got a new job with the Florida Panthers, but who gives a fuck? Roberto Luongo and Kevin B.XA as a duo on a revamped coach's corner. Connuck's Corner, perhaps. Would you watch that?

Yeah, I like Roberto Luwongo. Yeah. I'd watch it, but again, like, you're, you're, this is someone who hasn't done a lot of TV and that, I don't know. It's, uh, I think if you're going to bring in Luongo, you got to, you got to open the vault and pry Duthy away from TSN. Yeah, that's true. And he's another, I mean, he's another guy that I think is, is too smart to probably want any piece of this right now. But I also think, and this was, this was my, my problem with all the Ray Ferraro talk this week is like, TSN's not letting anybody of, of any, you know, super name recognition. and leave for that gig.

Right. You know, I mean, it's just not going to happen. If you want to go and start to really affect change and react to what led to the downfall of Don Cherry, my fifth choice, Haran Singh and Randy Janda of Hockey Night Punjabi as a duo in the coach's corner. Those guys are fucking rule. Yep. And give them eight minutes a week.

They would be absolutely fantastic. And this would be a classic case of putting. really, really talented people in a position where they had no chance at succeeding. It would just be brutal. And I hate saying that because we're letting the bad guys win when we say that. But I'm also trying to be a realist here. And yeah, those guys are great. And I just, I don't know.

Maybe, you know what, maybe whoever we put there is not good. It is going to be in a no-win situation anyway. so we should just actually put someone who deserves it and I should stop being so negative about everything. But I just, I don't know, man. It's been an ugly week up here. It's fine. It's completely understandable. But maybe what you need to do is completely reinvent the segment

and not make it a hot take fest. Maybe you make it a little bit smarter, make it a little bit more analytic. That's not going to be difficult. I know the bar is at low. Now, I know I just got done saying, that TSN's not going to let anybody go. But let's just say they let this guy go. What if you threw together, Mike Johnson,

very well-respected dude from NHL Network and TSN, a real brainiac when it comes to breaking down plays, throw him with our good friend Justin Bourne from The Athletic and Toronto Radio and do like a fucking systems analyst a segment every week for 10 minutes of them just intensely breaking down plays. Maybe you throw some new tech in there to have them be able to move the camera around the ice and shit like that. Really smart and that shit up with Boren and Mike Johnson.

So I, somebody asked more or less this question to me on the mailbag this week and, and my answer was Mike Johnson and AJ Malesco for same gimmick. Absolutely. And that works too. And yeah, like you just, you have the breakdown film live on the air.

That's that, and like that, you know, two really smart, good on TV kind of people who aren't going to you know, try to do, they're not trying to do like a hot take zone, you know, and, and like you actually, maybe the audience actually fucking learned something about hockey for once. I don't know. Like, that feels like it's almost too easy of an answer that, like, it'll never happen, but that's what it should be. I've been banging this drum for years, that the fact that there is virtually no X's and O's coverage.

None, none whatsoever. Of hockey in general, but certainly on the major broadcast. Like, even compared to football or, like, it's insane to me. So, yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to see something like that. Veering in the opposite direction, my seventh choice, just Ilya Brigalov. Just put bridge in front of a green screen. What would that sound like? Oh, I don't know, Sean.

Let's not find out. There are Chinese tigers who are being haunted for their skins and their eyeballs, and you have to protect the Chinese tigers. Just, British, for eight minutes and fucking go. And just put him in front of a green screen. So whatever he's talking about can appear behind him. I don't want to be that intern that's like furiously typing, you know, like footage from the Hubble telescope or whatever.

They say that Pluto is no longer planted, but I will tell you over next eight minutes, why that is not case. There was just a thing today about how NASA's head scientist actually is sticking by his Pluto's a planet thing. Yeah, he claims that Pluto, you know, if you, because it's all about the orbit of Pluto around the sun was one of the critical elements of

the deplanetizing of Pluto. And his contention is that, well, now you're going to limit how many planets in our universe are you now limiting to not being planets by that measure? And it's a very good point. Number eight is, number eight is definitely one that

I know Ryan would tune in for. Steve Dangle and And once in future fuck soup guest, Gillian Fisher. Give the segment to two vloggers and watch the Don Cherry fans flock to the broadcast every week to see these two apply their trade. No? What we could maybe call that segment is ratings poison. Oh, come on. I feel like I thought you were going to say Dangl and Hat Guy as the co-host would be.

I don't know how you do that live, but I feel like the technology. is probably there. And Hack guy would be, so Dangle would be Ron McLean and Hackay would be Don Cherry. Would that be the way of us? You know what? I'm not sure. I'd have to have to whiteboard that one and come back to you. I like that.

Number nine, and this is probably the one I'm most passionate about, perfect, perfect replacement for Don Cherry. Pierre McGuire and Jeremy Roanick, it would be awesome if Sportsnet signed both of these guys away from NBC. Absolutely awesome. I can think of no better scenario than if a Canadian broadcasting company were to remove these two individuals from American television. Yes, I believe this might be the best choice. And you know what?

Honestly, boy, you look around the landscape. Everybody's doing three-man booths now. Bring up Mike Milberry too. How exciting would that be? Pierre McGuire, Jeremy Rodick, and Mike Milbury all bought out of their contracts on American television, bought up to Canada, and then they have jobs up there from now on and don't have to be in the American media pool. You know what? Wouldn't that be amazing?

I'm just going to point out, if you do it that way, you've got, that, that opens up a whole bunch of jobs on American hockey broadcasts, and Don Cherry is looking for work right now, so figure it out. And finally, number 10, this is probably the most popular pick, according to what I've been hearing on this segment, just end Coach's Corner. Just don't, don't do it anymore. Just like, you know, do your hot stove bullshit and then do, I don't know, a feature. on a player or something. Don't try to recreate something that's been a standard bearer for the last 30 years and expect it to work. Just don't try to redo it.

Just end it. Which is what I think they're going to do. I think we're going to get either an extended version of the kind of hot stove thing that they used to do and sort of still do in the second period. I think you'll either see that move up or you'll see Ron McLean skating around on outdoor rinks in Saskatchewan talking about. the poetic virtues of the game and minor hockey and all of that stuff. I think at least in the short term, putting two people at a desk to talk like Don Cherry in Don Cherry's time slot is not going to strike them as being an ideal option.

Not advisable. All right. Moving on to actual hockey topics. Sidney Crosby, hernia surgery? Is that what I saw? I think it was injury repair. They didn't call it surgery, which was weird, unless there's a distinction there. Core muscle surgery is the thing that I see here.

Core muscle. Although it had been reported on the athletic that Rob Rossi had that scoop that it was a sports hernia. Yeah, it was a sports hernia. It was a situation where he was. He entered the year with it, and, you know, because the penguins were pretty banged up to start the year, he didn't want to be the guy who also was on the shelf. So he tried to play through it. And it just, you know, as it so often does, didn't work.

Yeah, and it was the kind of thing that you could play through, and maybe he could finish the season and have the surgery in the offseason, but doing that meant the risk of re-injuring, making it worse, which could happen in March when you're heading into the playoffs. And so it sounds like he tweaked it on Saturday, or Friday, I think it was, it got worse, and now they're just going to take care of it. And he should be four to six weeks, maybe more, but should be back 100% after that, and it won't be an issue anymore. So good news for the Penguins is they're off to a decent start. So this, yeah.

I mean, their problem is, and this is, you know, common for teams in the Eastern Conference, in general, nobody's safe right now? Like, not anybody. Well, maybe the Capitals, the Islanders and the Bruins, but anybody below those three teams is not safe at all. Like, nobody is locked into a spot, and everybody's within, like, three, four points of each other, and Tampa seems to be getting it together.

And it's like, ooh, six weeks from now, like, Sydney Crosby could return to this lineup, and they're in a lot of trouble. One team that I think is definitely safe are the Devils, safely in the basement. They were fucking shit. They were looking great last night against the senators

when I turned that game off because it was over. Never turned off the game in the third period. Listen to this horror story of a start for the devils. They played nine of their first 17 games on home ice. Hold on.

They've gone two, three, and four. Two, three, and four in fucking those nine games on home ice. That's eight out of a possible 18 points. Horror shows in the third period, my God, you know how like one of the most reliable things in the NHL

is if you enter the third period with a lead, you're probably going to fucking win the game. The devil so far this season, when entering the third period with the lead, which has only happened seven times, are three two and two. So fucking three wins out of seven games when entering the third period of the lead.

They've been outscored in the third period, 24 to nine in the third period. What a fucking disaster. No. It's really bad. So the devil's blown just endless leads of all different varieties on home ice. And it happened again against the Ottawa senators. They're in last place in the conference. I mean, they're going to pass the Red Wings because the Red Wings, they have three games in hand. And they're tearing ass right now. The Red Wings are beating everybody. Oh, the Red Wings are tearing ass right now. It's true. So the devils are, I mean, I don't, unless you have a St. Louis Blusian run in you, which would require you to find another goalie. same bluesian players, I think, for that to happen. They are atrociously bad.

They're probably already out of the fucking playoff race. And I'll give you one more stat. This is a great one. Remember when they got P.K. Suban and everybody's like, oh, this is definitely going to help them on the power play. Look it. They got Wayne Simmons to stand in front of the net and tip puckes and shit. He doesn't have a power play point in 17 games.

Simmons or Suban? Suban. Here's my question. Here's the thing. Oh, go ahead. Well, no, you do yours anything because then I got a question for Greg. I was going to say, like, he has otherwise been pretty good this year. Yeah, especially relative to the devils.

Like, he's, his position numbers have been good. We've been pretty good relative to the devil. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But my God, yeah, like he, but the statistic output, especially where you're looking for him to make a difference, like on the power player with the doubles, I think are not like 26th in the league. Fucking atrocious. Here's my question. I know every time when the devils aren't doing well,

all the attention is going to be on Taylor Hall and rightly so. And it sounds like Elliot Freeman reported last weekend that it's very unlikely he's going to sign. And that's going to be a huge, huge mess. Should we start at least thinking about the possibility of P.K. Suban being traded again? Like is that with them retaining some salary and trading a guy while he still has value? if we just say, you know what, we're going into rebuild mode here. He's got two years left on the deal after this year. So it's not, you know, the cap hit is high, but you can mitigate that.

Is this what we should be looking for in addition? As the undercard to not, not that Taylor Hall and P.K. Suban would ever be traded on the same day. But could it happen? That's a really good point. And I mean, by the way, Taylor Hall has had a really weird year. two goals in 17 games, but 13 assists for 15 points. So 15 and 17, not the worst start in the world for Taylor Hall. But I mean, the devils right now have two guys in double digits and points.

It's Hall and Paul Mary. It's fucking brutal. That's not a bad thought, Sean. And I do think that if anything, them cratering this season makes that decision. It takes the John Tavares mealy-mouth, should we or shouldn't we trade deadline thing out of the equation if they, if they crater. Like, you obviously trade Taylor Hall. So at least he got that.

And the other thing, too, is if you are going to get the team, I mean, the good news is that you've got two pillars to build around in Hesha and Hughes. Like, there is another chapter to this that I think is, it's pretty obvious. It's not scorched. Start over from scratch. Right, right. Like, you've got some pieces in place, but this is a fucking disaster. Like, this was a team that clearly had some designs on being something. more than and also ran this year.

And I mean, obviously the biggest issue with Taylor Hall is that if you trade him at the deadline, he won't be around for the draft lottery. So then you can't get the top pick, yeah. So from that aspect, you're kind of fucked. And folks, if you want to be around for the draft lottery, there's one place to go. And that's Seat Geek, you've got to go on there, you buy tickets for it. So, listen, they have millions of live event tickets from sports, live music, comedy, and more. Seatkeek has the tickets you're looking for.

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There are only two guarantees in life. Taylor Hall, draft lottery wins, and Ryan Lambert ad transitions. home runs baby every time taxes also probably not if you're death that's right that's right that's right speaking of rich Ilya covalchuk so that situation is going to shit yeah he's been absolutely

yeah he's been absolutely horrible this season and the kings pulled him from the lineup and basically said you're going to be a healthy scratch in perpetuity which is a handy way of trying to force someone to wave their no move to go anywhere But it sounds like this is headed towards release the city between Kovulchuk and the Kings. Yeah, right after he gets that bonus check. Yeah, the big factor here is a giant $5 plus million bonus check.

He's due on December 15th. So, you know, it's sort of a waiting game. It's a lot of negotiation, a lot of moving parts. The word that all of the insiders that have been talking to Rob Blake said is liquid. Liquid. It's a liquid situation right now, mainly because Kovulchuk's offense has been diarrhea. this season. Three points in the last 12 or

13 games for Kovulchuk, only one of them at even strength. And an absolute defensive fucking sieve this year, too. A complete disaster. One of the worst signings in recent memory. Because you want him to play defense. That's why you go get

a guy like that. No, but I mean, you have to be competent, though. He's been incompetent defensively this year. Yeah, who's been good on the Kings this year? Besides, okay, you're going to say Sean Walker, who we've all definitely heard of and is a real guy. But, like, no, I mean, you know, I'm, I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of, you know,

he's a real big part of the problem there. And it's like, you know, is he even in the top five, really? You know, I don't know. So where does he end up? Pittsburgh or Washington? Yeah. The Chelyabins, Penguins is where he's going to end up. He's done in the NHL.

You think, you think it's back to the Soviet? getting the words of business nasty? Oh yeah. Okay. I think it's up to him, really. I mean, if he's released and he can go somewhere with his $5 million in his pocket and sign a $1 million deal with a contender and maybe even have a bit of a chip on his shoulder, he might not be done, but I could absolutely see him saying, okay, tried, didn't work out. I'm out of here. But yeah, Those are possibilities. I'll just throw one more out there. St. Louis.

They're looking for a little bit of offense on the wing. There's no evidence he can provide it at this point, but do you gamble? Do you roll the dice and say, let's see what he's got? The Rangers has sniffed around Klobuchar forever, too. That's a very Rangers acquisition. That's a very old Rangers acquisition. That's a very Bobby Holick contract area.

It's very Bobby Holick. It's very very. Very Mark Tass, Saint-Louis, it's very pretty much everyone, everyone who was, everyone who wasn't old enough to end their career with the Red Wings. Good. Go to the Rangers. And he's, I mean, I think part of the equation, too, is like he clearly came to L.A. He put a bunch of fucking smoke out there about, you know, oh, I want to win a cup. But, like, he came to L.A. to live in Beverly Hills.

Like, he loved living in Los Angeles. And, you know, if he's looking for another place to go, it probably is going to be. suggesting Pittsburgh or somewhere of those. I don't think. Maybe I don't know. I mean, I assume that Malkin can show him where the good Borscht is. But at the same time, I have to assume that there's a quality of life situation here for Ilya Kovych. And again, he can go back to Russia and make a bunch of fucking money and live there with his family like he had for previous seasons. So a couple more topics here. Holy shit the Leafs. What the fuck's going on there, Sean? No, I mean, they're very mediocre is what's happening.

happening. And it's not just one thing. It's several things. They have had some injuries, but not, I mean, not a ridiculous, I mean, St. Louis has had injuries and Pittsburgh said injuries. There's guys get injured. That's, that's part of it. Tyson Barry has not been great since he got there, which I don't know if that's a Tyson Barry problem or a how they're using Tysonberry problem. You know, says that the, now hold on. Mike Babcock's making weird personnel. Are you serious? It turns out Mike Babcock was not the one to unleash the offensive potential of your big offseason acquisition. I think coaching's part of it.

I think the defensive, like, hey, where are we playing playoff defensive style hockey is part of it, although not as big a part of it as people make out to be. The fact that they always, they had a bunch of back-to-backs and they always played their backup goalie for the second half and he was bad. that basically kissed away like the I mean it was either four or five games and I don't think they they got much in the way of points out of any of them so it's a lot of things and and it's fixable I don't think this is necessarily a disaster yet but it's trending I mean missing the playoffs would be a disaster and that's what they're trending towards so they got they got some time to figure it out but it gets it gets late early in NHL season so and like you said like

Montreal punching above its weight. Florida's figured itself out. You know what the Bruins are. And now the lightning are going to start moving up. That's the thing. Right now they're holding down the last wild card spot, but that's because they played a few more games. If it's points percentage, they're already not there.

But even if they're holding down the last spot, Tampa's behind them. Tampa's going to make the playoffs. They're passing them. Carolina's behind them. Yeah. Carolina's been kind of all over the map, so I wouldn't say they're necessarily a sure thing, but I wouldn't want them breathing down my neck.

Buffalo was good for a while, so who knows? That's probably it. Jeff Skinner might score again at some point, so they'll start it around. And then the devils. And then the devils are charging hard. So, yeah. Absolutely. How about this for a stat on the Leafs, just to wrap this up?

They've beaten six teams in regulation. I saw this. Those six teams are the San Jose Sharks who were in 25th, the Columbus Blue Jackets who are in 26, the Ottawa Senators who are in 27th, the Detroit Red Wings who are in 28th, the Minnesota Wilde who are in 30th, and the Los Angeles Kings were in 31st. You know, first of all, speaking from experience, beating the senators is really tough. But also, I will say that it's almost like, and correct me from wrong, it's almost like Mike Babcock has never won anything of consequence without J.S. Jaguer having the playoff of his life. Nick Lidstrom as the Lynch Penefo's defense or a Canadian all-star team on the ice. It's almost as if maybe he has been the beneficiary of some things and isn't necessarily the guy that deserved the massive fucking eight-year contractor where the hell they gave him when they

signed him. I mean, it's almost like that. Maybe. It's crazy, right? It's kind of like that, yeah. Holy shit, the Islanders. We don't talk about the Islanders a lot. on this podcast because we know it infuriates

Ironers fans that we don't. Or when we do. But I do, I do. Yeah. Yeah. So, but like, fucking, they're great. I mean, Barry Trots, man. Back to back,

Jacks, it probably can't happen because of the way that the voting for this thing goes. It should. If it keeps going this way. It's happened once before, and that was back in the 80s, and it's kind of a different, different time now.

He should. He should win it again. And it should absolutely, the Jack Adam should, be like the Hart Trophy. If you're the best, you should be able to win it five years in a row. It's dumb that we have at some point decided it has to be the most improved team award. But yeah. Well, we also have to think about who's due this year.

That's true. Who's due to win the game? Right. That's a very good point. The islanders look great. At the same time, like, how frustrating must it be to go 9-0-1 and 1? And you look up at the standings and the one team you're chasing has also been 9-0-1. and you haven't gained any ground. Yeah, that's crazy. Are you kidding me? But they're, I mean, based on, they've got three games in hand in Washington.

They're five points back. So that's close to calling it even. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe this whole Mitch Korn goalie whispering thing has more to it than I thought, because you can't score on these guys. And they. But it's also the Barry Trots. Let's keep every shot on the perimeter.

thing too. They have one of the worst expected goal against rates in the league. The puck's just not going in. And, you know, that I would say, okay, now we have enough evidence with like even Brayden Holpey before this, where you go, you know what, they're pretty good. Yeah, they're 10th worst in expected goals against per 60 at 5 on 5. And goals against per 60 at 5 on 5. And goals against per 60 at 5 on 5. they are the best at 1.82. So, you know, it's a pretty big swing. I don't know that even Mitch Korn is that brilliant where he's like, yeah, we can cut a full, like, goal and a half off or whatever the number is. But, you know, obviously they're doing it again, and it's Thomas Gray's and a different starter or, you know, ostensible starter where they're doing it.

So, you know, there is a quantity over quality thing, but also, like, they do have one of the worst, let's see here. They are seventh worst and expected goal difference, and, you know, that will catch up to them at some point, but, again, if the goaltending is going to hold up like this, like not to the extent that it probably should. And we should start to turning it around a little bit. We should maybe just quickly mention Andrew Ladd waived today.

I don't know if you guys saw that. Only three years left on that one. Yeah, July 1, 2016 was the May 1, very well been the dumbest day in NHL history when all of those aging wingers got massive contracts that have all been disasters. So that was Luchich, that was

Argos. Erickson. Ladd. Erickson. Franz Nielsen, who's been really bad actually this year. Yeah. That was also, I believe, the Bacchus contract. Troy Brower is the good deal

that got signed that day. And he's on his, what, third different teams since it got signed. That's the one way you're like, we nailed it. Yeah. What the fuck with Vegas? Sharks making their move in the Pacific now that they're back on home ice. Vegas, very middling this year, and I can't quite figure out what that's about.

They're like, they're giving me a bit, and I'm not going to, I'm not predicting that they're not going to make the playoffs, but they're giving off a bit of that Tampa vibe from a couple years ago. Remember when you spent the whole season going, they're fine. They'll kick it into gear. They'll get there. and then they missed the playoffs by one point, and you're like, it just never happened.

Well, so my thing with them is I can definitely see a situation where their goaltending just kind of isn't great all year. You know what I mean? Like, they're just, there are two goalies where, you know, Mark Andre Fleury's been up and down throughout his career, and so it's never a big shock if he's, like, not playing great. And then the thing I don't buy, is that they're going to shoot under 7% all year.

Yeah, that's the issue. They have a 97 PDO right now, and you don't, I can't imagine that I'm not going to be able to look it up really quickly, but I can't imagine there's a team, especially a team with this much talent, that's been anywhere near that low over the full 82. And, you know, they're one of the best expected goals teams in the league. They're one of the best coursey teams in the league.

And just about any measure that isn't just straight goal difference, you go, oh, they look great, and they just can't pick up that extra little something that gets them the goal that makes the difference. So I do think they can just start putting the puck in the net more and call it good, but it's definitely, you know, like you said, time's wasting. The Colorado Avalanche Stadium Series sweaters leaked this week, and I was surprised. by how many people dislike them. I think they're fucking awesome. Yeah, they're cool. Yeah, I don't have strong feelings on what uniforms look like.

I didn't love them. They looked kind of weird to me, but I don't get super excited over any of this stuff, so I'm probably not the intended audience. The one interesting thing about them stadium series jersey is that they always seem exaggerated. I remember some of those outdoor games they had with the Kings and the ducks and stuff. Like the logos are always sort of too big on those jerseys. When the fans are all like half a mile away, maybe it makes sense to. Yeah, that's what it is, right?

So like for the purposes of that, to create this kind of look for your jersey, I think, is really cool. And it's got good use of negative space. And I don't know, man, I've long said that the Colorado Avalanche are a team that needs a logo refresh. They certainly do. This is a good start. And this is a good start But I mean, I don't know if I would make this necessarily the primary logo But the negative space thing and all that

Like definitely that's a good that's a good jumping off point The thing I will say is that all the people who are mad about this Because it doesn't have like a traditional logo on it I would say probably 85% of them are also the freaks who like the big Vancouver Canucks V jersey So This is true. This is true.

Finally, Hillary Knight made some news this week, and so did the NWHL. So the ongoing war between the elite women's players that left the fold and decided not to sign with the NWHL and go on their, you know, barnstorming tour and all this other stuff. there's been an ongoing battle between the league and the players where, and by the way, I blame the NHL for this. Like, the NHL has set up this sort of zero-sum game where they're like, well, we certainly can't start our own women's league at this one around. And so basically the elite women's players have to pray for the death of the NWHL in order for the NHL to get involved with a women's league.

So the NWHL announced today, as we do the podcast, that, they have a new round of equity funding. They're in their fifth season. They found a new equity partner, and there's now talk they potentially may expand to Toronto next season, assuming there is the next season, which I guess we have to assume there is going to be. Meanwhile, Hillary Knight, in an interview with the Associated Press,

called the NWHL a beer league. like a glorified beer league is what she said about the NWHL at its level of play now that the elite players have decided not to return. A war of words, probably not the best thing for women's hockey at this point. But interesting to see that as the elite players continue to pray for the demise of the NWHL, they continue to pile on investors and even with an eye towards expansion. Yeah, I mean, Hillary Knight is not wrong about this. if you don't have those elite, like, you know, name brand players, it's hard to argue that this is anything but, like, a league that kind of is on the level of a very good beer league, I guess you'd say, but a beer league nonetheless, like, it's, what would the NHL look like if the top 60s,

players in the league were just like, yeah, we're not playing this year. You know, the league would be a lot more difficult to watch. So I don't think she is out of bounds saying that. Like you said, maybe not the best thing for women's hockey in general right now, but that, you know, they're looking out for themselves and they want to get the NHL involved in this by hook or by crooks. So that's the way you've got to do it, I guess. And it's like one of those deals where obviously like they can't.

they can't put over the league, even though there's clearly a following for it because of just the necessity of trying to downplay it and yeah, so interesting there. How are you on time, Sean? You good? I'm good for a little bit, yeah. Okay, good.

Just double-checking because we're going to talk about the mandolian now. Can't do that without me. Disney Plus drop this week. It's got a ton of cool shit on it. It was funny. Like there was this big conspiracy theory about all the ESPN people tweeting about the service. And, you know, people being like, well, obviously their corporate masters have told them to tweet positive things about Disney Plus. I did it the night it came out.

And no one made that accusation about me. Because they know that I'm just like sitting there with a big fucking beer and being like, oh, my God, Tron Legacy. So like, it's pretty cool. Like all the Star Wars films are in 4K. It's got a ton of content on there with more to come, obviously, because the Marvel shows haven't even dropped yet. So I'm stoked for it. It's pretty great.

And The Mandalorian made its debut this week. For those that don't know, it is the first scripted Star Wars television series, live action. The showrunners are John Favro, famous director. The Potsay of America guy, yeah. It's a lot of hidden references to the Obama legacy inside of the Mandalorian. And then also Dave Flonny, who is the guy who did the Clone Wars cartoon and stuff. So it's great. I thought the first episode lagged in the beginning as you try to get a sense of what the paces of this thing is going to be.

There's a few cute bits. I didn't really like the Horatio Sands. alien character that's in the first part of the episode because it was a little too Star Trek for me. You know what I'm saying? I'm Lambert. I do. But there's a great gag about space taxis that I appreciated. And once you get past the first maybe like 10 or 12 minutes of it and Verde Herzog shows up with a bunch of stormtroopers, well, now we're talking.

Then the show really kicks into a different gear. The second that door opened, I was like, let's go. things just got interesting because I spent the first whatever 10, 12 minutes of the show going like, God, I hope this isn't like a Boba Fett origin story.

I hope this isn't like taking place too far in the future from the rest of the series. Like I didn't want it to just be like, oh, here's a different Mandalorian and he's going to talk to Ray and Finn, but yeah, no. Nope, they didn't do that either.

They didn't do that either. It's at five years. after Return of the Jedi. So, perfect. And it's, oh, that's right, because you did, you did no advance reading on this. No, of course. You're not, you're the no trailer boy. The thing about the Star Wars universe that I like is that you can do referential shit without it being a blatant member barriers thing. So by that I mean, you could have the gunk droid and you can have that little eyeball droid that's, was at the door of Jabba's

Palace that spoke to the 3PO and R2. You could throw all these little Easter eggs in there and not have it be forceful nostalgia, like, say, like, The Force Awakens is. And so I think the Landolorean hits that really well. And then, like, the entire shootout action scene at the end of the first episode was just dynamite. Yep. And it's just a cool.

It's a cool show. It's good. I am very much looking forward to spend. time in the universe that they're making. And, I mean, I guess we won't traffic in spoilers, but the last shot is fucking phenomenal. Very cool. Yeah.

But there's another Star Wars thing that we wanted to talk about on Disney Plus. Not so cool. It's very stupid, actually. It sucks. Sean, you know the whole controversy with, did Han shoot first? I do. I do. Okay.

I have seen that movie. To break it down for those who don't. So I'm very excited. to take part in this. For those who don't know, so in the original episode for A New Hope in 1977,

then known as Star Wars, Han Solo was introduced as the ultimate badass because in a meeting with a bounty hunter named Grito, he just blew the fuck out of Grito with his blaster

to get out of a sticky situation, and he was like, the ultimate badass, and everybody loved it. And then the re-reelial release of A New Hope, the special edition came out in the 1990s. And George Lucas said, I wouldn't want to make him too much of a badass.

Let's make him more defensive. And made a thing where Grito shot first. And Han CGI jerked his head to the side away from the blaster. And then he shot Grito. So it became Grito shot first instead of Han shot first. And people were cool with it. And they were like, yeah, that's a minor detail. We're not going to get worked up.

No, it didn't go over that well. Well, it turns out that in the 4K restoration of Star Wars... Well, hold on. There was a part in the Blu-ray where they edited again, and the blue... And then they shot basically simultaneously, and they were like, and that takes care of that one. And it didn't. Because everybody's just like, just fucking change it back. What are we talking about here?

And they refuse to do it. you know when else there was a Blu-ray, when her parents left Jacou and left her there. Not bad. Not bad. I got that reference. So, yeah, so there was that incarnation as well. Then George Lucas, according to a variety, I believe it was, went back and worked on the 4K transition for Star Wars to now be on the streaming service. And once again, tinkered with the scene.

Now it's a situation where... They shoot simultaneously. They shoot simultaneously. But he inserted an extra beat where Grito says what sounds like McClunky. Yes, that's correct. So to like make it sound like he basically said, you're dead or something like that. You're dead. But the problem is that McClunky is the only thing Grito says in that scene that.

is not subtitled. So, like, they didn't even add that detail to it. They were just, like, McClunky's good enough for us, folks, and Michael Iger. Or, what's his name? Bob Iger. Bob Iger. Yeah, Bob Iger was like, that works for us. We're going to put it on the streaming service and not tell anybody.

And then when people went to watch a new hope on Tuesday, like I did, he said to them, McClunky. And we were like, what? Yeah, he says McClunky and then they shoot simultaneously. Now, here's the thing. A Twitter handle called Mildly Exasperated has actually found out what Grito is saying here. McClunky is a phrase that is actually hut ease. So the language spoken by Job of the Hut and all of the other huts.

It's actually Ma Clownkey, M-A-K-L-O-U-N-K-E, and means this is the end of you. Keep in mind that Tatooine is under hot control. Everybody speaks a bit of the language. Mildly exasperated goes on to say, remember the alien that raced against Anakin and the Phantom Menace, Subalba. He threatened Anakin with the same phrase. and that dude and Grito were in deep with the huts, and I think it's actually kind of cool to tie those threads together.

So there you go. He's wrong about that, this person. Oh, oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. It's stupid. Just leave it like it was.

You know what everybody liked is the original Star Wars? You know what nobody liked is the, like, when the freaking guy almost falls off the big elephant thing outside the canteena. and Han Solo steps on Jabba the Hutt's tail, and he looks really blurry doing it. People didn't like that part. And so just, like, I don't know what's so hard for, like, I know why George Lucas didn't want to do it, but you know what Disney could have done?

Was just be like, we're just going to put out the original cut, and everybody will fucking love it. People will lose their minds. They'll be so happy. I'm sure that'll happen at some point. I mean, I don't know for sure. We've been saying that for 15 years as it happened. So it's a good point.

Just do it, man. Let's go. Okay. Last pop culture thing for the episode. AV Club released its top 100 TV shows of the last decade. We're not going to do all 100, but I'll give you the top 10. Fleabag? Haven't seen.

30 Rock. Start in the 2000s, not. It started in 2006 and finished in 2013, and yet 30 Rock is like 9th. Yeah. Bob's Burgers. Great show. Is it the best show in the decade? I would air on the side of no, but also like I've seen every episode.

Sean, you seem like a Bob Burgers kind of guy, too, no, or yes? Do it? Well, I've got bad news for you then. No, I have never seen it. I am vaguely aware of it. So, yeah, that probably puts it solidly in the top ten of television shows in the last decade. I was a huge Simpsons fan, as many are, including Ryan. And I've not, I don't know if it's because of how much I hated family guy,

but I've never really given a lot of the animation outside of King of the Hill and Fox much time. And so I didn't get into Bob's burgers, but I understand it's very good. I would recommend it. I think it just kind of hit the ground running and has really stayed in its lane really well. And, you know, in much the same way The Simpsons kind of did up until about season 8 when it starts getting a little wacky. Right. Which, you know, people have their own opinions about that. The Simpsons effectively ended for me halfway through season 9.

So. Mm-hmm. There you go. The leftovers at number 7. Very good. Very good show. I found it to be excruciating. And I'm so happy that Watchmen is a lot better.

Oof, that's incorrect. The Good Place at number six. Ridgulous. and she says that it was good, the first season at least. People really like it. The AV Club especially likes it. Yeah, well, so it's like, the problem with it is this. And I'm looking at the AV clubs or little blurb on, and it says so much television,

so much art grapples with what it means to be good. But the good place makes that philosophical conundrum its entire crux. And it's like, right, but they say that the whole time. Like, it's one thing to go, oh, this is about, you know, what it, what it means to be a good person or whatever. But to very just explicitly go, this show is about what it means to be a good person is like, and just have characters saying that back and forth to each other for four seasons. It got a little tiresome. I liked it at first, but it kind of lost its fastball there a season and a half in, which isn't great. The Americans at five.

Awesome show, perfect show. I've heard it's a really good show, and I will admit that I never committed time to watching it. But I am a huge Matthew Reese fan. I think he's a fantastic actor. Yeah, he is. Very exciting that this is a show that I will definitely like binge at some point because it looked great. Parks and Rec started in 2009, which is 2014. Not part of this decade, so.

Not from this decade. Would it be top ten? No, of course not. I don't, I don't, I, again, like, Parksland Rec was a show I came to very late because the first season was so bad. Yeah. And in office derivative, and I never got into it. And then through Ruby, like, she was a huge Parkinsonant Rec fan.

And she's like, no, no, no, like, you got to revisit it because it, they find their, their voice. They definitely do. But what I would say is, it is a show for the Obama era. A lot of the, you know, of the politics and the like viewpoint of the show was effectively. Well, it was just effectively like, oh, none of this shit matters. Trump's the president now. You know what I mean? Like it just, yeah, it was optimistic, but it was also like, oh, you know, you can love your insane libertarian neighbor who buries gold in his backyard because he's a good person at heart.

And it's like, no, it turned out that's not true. He's just a psycho and should be treated as such. And so, like, I just think that it, because of the way politics basically took a hard turn there, you know, it does, it has not aged well. Hmm. It did give the world Aubrey Plaza and it gave the world Star Lord as well. It did. That's exciting. And he's very funny on it.

He's, like, insanely funny on that show, but, you know. Oh, and also gave the world fucking, what's his face? Ron Swanson, who's a really, it was a really funny character on that show. Well, that's the libertarian guy I'm talking about. Now it's, like, he would have 100% voted for Trump and then it's, okay. Well, yeah. Number three, Atlanta. Pretty good.

It's definitely top, top 10 for me. It's fantastic. Number two, Mad Men, not from the 2000s. Or the 2010s, started in 2007. in 2015. And then number one was Breaking Bad, which also started in 2008. Yeah. So if you're looking for purebred this decade, the Americans' leftovers, Bob's Burgers, and Fleabag were like the only ones that were actually in this decade. Yeah, right. It's like saying, you know, who is the best band of the 1990s Metallica? And it's like, well, no, I mean, like they had like four albums or three albums before 1990. So. no they're in need the one show the one show I would definitely elevate here that didn't make the top ten and I can't understand why it didn't was veep fucking Veepe fucking Veepe was 20th well Veepe um you know a pale recreation of the thick of it so yeah you know that that doesn't help it um yeah I mean Vip was very good everybody's very funny on it you know what show should have been in the top 10 and wasn't Hannibal Hannibal's the other one after it was also uh Nathan for you Nathan for you, review another great comedy central show.

Yeah. And I'm sure these are all on the list somewhere. I just kind of scroll down. Nathan for you is 27. I know everybody loves finding Francis the big feature length series finale of Nathan for you. Incredible. But you could have just left that out and it would have been top 10. Oh, sure.

There was genius comedy on that show. I just want to say that just for fun, as you guys were talking, I thought it would. be it would be cool if I started at the top of the list at number one and work my way down until I got to a show that I'd actually seen multiple episodes of. Oh, nice. And I thought, and I got to number 25 and the first show that I encountered that I'd seen multiple episodes of is the great British baking show. So I feel extremely uncool now and I'm just going to shut up and not, not take part in the matter. Yeah, no, it's cool. You're right, Sean. It's, It's cool that we watch this much TV.

It's really cool guys. There's a middle ground between seeing all of this stuff and not having seen any of it. Participating in the culture in any way. I'm going to pretend that we don't get these shows in Canada, which is completely untrue, but it's the closest cover I can get to. Yeah, through the advent of... Where do you think Little Mosque on the Prairie should have been on this one? You know, what about... I would say that I saw Schitt's Creek show up on this.

And the fact that that has suddenly become like a prestige show in America is very interesting to us upstairs. Haven't seen one second of it, the terribleness of the name was the big turn on for me there. We all saw plenty of it. And we're like, yeah, that's fine. And then it just Celine Dionne's way down there. And apparently it's a great show now. So enjoy that. Yeah, well, it's defined by the AV Club is a decorated hit in its native Canada.

Decorated hit. Yeah. Like, we make four shows a year, and it was definitely in the top three. It's won two Junos, so it's the most popular show in the history of Canada. Well, it was the other one that made its way down here? Was it slings and arrows? I wouldn't say barely. Like, that was a, what, 10-episode TV show over two seasons?

Like, I don't, I mean, it did get us Rachel McAdams. But that's about it. Yeah. All right. Yeah, Canadian TV. I've been impressed with how much impact or I guess, I don't know what the correct word would be, but like people are cognizant of trailer park boys down here, and people are definitely fans of Letter Kenny down here.

So from that aspect, there's definitely some impact. But yeah, the Schitts Creek thing surprised me. Schitt's Creek for a long time was my favorite show to watch over the shoulder of people on airplanes. A lot of people watch Schitt's Creek on airplanes for some reason. I couldn't tell you why. All right. That's a show for this week. Thanks to the pubic hair trimming company.

I wonder if they have a name. Probably not. The secondary ticket market company. Thanks to everybody for listening. My name is Greg Wysinski. You can find my stuff on ESPN.com. I have a column up today that deals with some Hall of Fame stuff, as well as the usual.

all nonsense, winners and losers and stuff like that. Also, earlier this week, did a big piece on one of our favorite topics. Players synonymous with one jersey who ended up in another jersey at one point in their career that looked odd on them. The proverbial Mike Madano as a red wing, Bobby O'er, as a Black Hawk. I completely forgot, Sean, that Wendell Clark was a Black Hawk. That was something that I completely forgot. You're referring to lifelong Toronto Maple Leaf, Wendell Clark, so I don't know what you're talking about. I wouldn't. I don't know what sort of photoshopped images you've been tricked by, but he certainly never played for them or the Red Wings or the Tampa Bay Lightning or anybody else. And then also I have another podcast called ESPN and Ice with Emily Kaplan.

We talked to this gentleman down goes brown. We talked to Barry Belrose. And we talked to Ed Belfour this week as well about his new career as a whiskey distiller at Belfort. Every bottle costs a billion dollars. Very interesting. I didn't make that joke to Ed Belfwell Howard. Also, thank you. Also, a bonus episode dropping this week, and you're going to fucking love it.

It is a Hall of Fame-centric bonus episode on the Patreon in which we talk about the Hockey Hall of Fame as a facility philosophically. And then we each remove two people and put two people into the Hockey Hall of Fame that currently aren't inside of it. So do check that out on the Puck Soup. Patreon. Oh, and also sign up for the newsletter on the Patreon. Write a newsletter every week. And then we also, me and Sean Gentelli from The Athletic, do an episode of our old podcast, stick to sports once a month. So that's three bucks if you sign up for all the other stuff or four bucks if you don't. And it's a good deal that everybody thinks is great.

Subscribe to the Athletic. You can find me there. I had my thoughts on the Don Cherry situation. on Tuesday, and if you're looking for something a little bit lighter, I've got Hall of Fame debates, as well as on Friday. The grab bag is coming out, and I'm going to look at the pros and cons of Brian Burke taking over for Don Cherry. Wow, there you go. All right, great stuff, everybody, and we will talk to you next week. Thanks for listening and supporting the show. Bye-bye.

I see it. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary. What if you commute? We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nonsense. Book 2.