Puck Soup - Collect Your Fandom

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

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Dix and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Park two. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean Magnew from The Athletic. And folks, huge news in the NHL this week.

So exciting. That's right. They're launching NFTs. Finally. You've been clamoring for him. You've been going, oh, I cannot wait to get my hands on a digital Alex Ovechkin. Look, this is the one where he's skating.

Yeah. You know? This is so exciting. Just finger on the pulse as always. Absolutely. Now, I do have to correct you here, though, because I heard you, I heard you say they were NFTs, and I haven't seen that in any of the messaging that's going out.

It's their official digital collectible highlights. Oh. Well, that's my mistake. And they're going to build a community where you can trade those official digital collectible highlights. Now, do you know how I found out about this? How's that? This was a tweet. I'm assuming you just like opened your window and heard people out.

outside. That's right. No, this is a tweet from Gord. And he said, news. NHL and NHLPA have launched NHL breakaway. Their official digital collectibles highlight community where fans can trade packs and highlights per the NHL, the top players in digital collectible trading are. Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby, Kel McCar, Jack Hughes, Alex Ovechkin.

The platform opened last summer in beta form. they see it as, quote, an old school playground where fans can trade digital collectibles with one another, really leaning into the community aspect of it, but also incentivizing with ticket giveaways for completing sets. Now, look, I'm really excited about this. If I get all the guys that Senators fans overrate, I can go to a Winnipeg Jets game. Wow, that's exciting. Old school, you say. Yeah. Well, there's also.

The other pack that I saw on there is guys who are shooting 48% right now that their fans are convinced are going to win the Rocket Richard this year. Yeah. Cool. So, yeah, I'm really excited about this one. So I'm, and I'm probably not alone on this, but the first time I ever heard of NFTs was a few years ago when the NBA announced that they were doing. something. Yeah. And they announced it and like I saw a bunch of people were like, hey, the NBA is doing this thing. They're called NFTs and here we're going to explain it to you. And I was like, all right, explain it to me. And I read about it. And I was like, I do not understand this. That that doesn't make any sense. And I even read a few more because I was like, you know, I'm not into crypto stuff, but I'm into sports stuff. And I was like, I want to hear about this. And it like, and like, and, like, and. And, like, and. And, like, and. And, like, After a few times, I was like, this doesn't make any sense to me at all.

And I turned out to be right about that. And now, I mean, a good year after it feels like everybody stopped talking about this. Now, when... Here comes the NHL with a... And I got to say, I want to make fun of the NHL here, but on one sense, I guess we give them some credit, because every other league did this two years ago. maybe the NHL was like the one league that was like,

well, this is clearly bull crap. Like there's no day. But then eventually they had to do it. And now I feel so bad for the people like who are now watching. Like the people in the marketing side. Oh, sure. Like we have to launch. How do you launch NFTs in late 2023?

Well, apparently you've rebranded as an old school digital playground. I have never seen anything more dead in the water. Like, you are never, ever going to hear about this again after today. When would you guess the NBA launched Top Shot? Was it, I'm going to say, like, two years, like late 2021. Ooh, you were off by one year, late 2020, October 2, 2020. Top Shot opened to the public after a closed beta. Okay, so like that was when it was actually, all right.

So the NHL is literally three plus years behind. Yeah. Well, just to contextualize something that had a one year. 2020 doesn't sound like it was that long ago. You were in full lockdown in October 2020. Yeah. They didn't have a vaccine yet. No.

You know? You weren't allowed to leave the house. What did President Trump say about the NBA? Yeah, no. Right. I guess that's true. It was a month before Joe Brandon stole. the election.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's how long ago that was. Think of all the Joe Brandon news we've gotten since then. He's done like three things since then. Yeah. And look, that was really taxing on him. Let's give him a break, you know?

Yeah. But, yeah, that's how long ago that was. Like, if I said to you, Ryan, I'm going to give you $10,000. If at any point, for the rest of your life anyone unprompted by you mentions collecting NHL breakaway

sure yeah I would that is a check I would never have to write no I can say with full confidence like tomorrow you could do like a Twitter search for this

and you won't find any even now I mean the poor poor Greg is you know he's reporting some news. And I mean, as the kids say, they're, NHL, they're crushing you in the quote tweets, guys. I bet they are, yeah.

It's not, it's not, I mean, it's actually amusing. But, oh, my, like, you just imagine, how many times in this project were they like, guys, can we just, do we just scrap this or, or what? Yeah, a classic let's not and say we did scenario here. How do we launch NFTs without calling them NFTs? Yeah, look. Here's the thing.

You said the NHL, the reason they relate to this was they, you know, they were waiting to see what other leagues did with this. Yeah. My theory is they had to find someone who could help them go on computer. It took three years. They finally did it. And they were like, now what's this NBA top shot I've heard so much about? And they went on there. And they were like, oh, there's a guy dunking?

I never seen something like this before. They all had to call its grandson to like, how do I install iTunes into Word? Grand Kid was like, I'll just, I'll just come over. I'm assuming that in this version, the grandkid is that three-on-three league from last summer. That's right, yeah Comes over And it's like, all right I gotta get Internet Explorer on my router

Yeah, that's right But yeah, we just wanted to say How fucking stupid this shit is You know, and then we'll talk about the thing That was actually on the Look, there, I gotta say this There's the NHL it feels like every week Gives us a dozen stupid things

That are like aggravating And unfuny this one is very funny and ultimately harmless because nobody will use it. Not one person is going to go into this community and become involved in you're going to make me look up

what you're going to make me hop on the fucking exchange or whatever they call it and I'll report back later in the show. All right. It's called NHL breakaway. You get on there and you trade with a whole bunch of people with a whole bunch of numbers after their names. Yeah, you got it, brother. Punch your credit card right in there.

I absolutely will. Oh, wow, it's scrolling all the names of the NHL teams. Experience the NHL like never before, it says. This is great. Yeah, anyway, let's talk about the Edmonton Oilers. They fired their coach. Yeah. I feel like NFTs to Edmonton Oilers is a more seamless transition than

we normally do on this show. Yeah, two things that are fucking dead in the water, okay? Okay, folks. Mm-hmm. Uh, okay, so let's, because we've covered the Oilers being surprisingly bad. Sure we have. Were you surprised that they made a coaching change? No, man, they lost to the sharks.

Yeah. You know, it's that simple for me. Did you see the clip of, uh, uh, Woodcroft and Dave Manson walking off the ice after the Sharks game. Yeah, it was crazy because they were saying to each other, we're going to get on this,

uh, NHL breakaway. Yeah. When's that going to come out? I mean, it's been in beta for so long. I hope I have some free time when that does eventually launch. Uh,

uh, yeah, there was a clip of them and yeah, of course. Jay Woodcroft appeared to say, uh, what, that's probably it.

Yeah. So that might be it. And Dave Mans was like, yeah. And they got the, the, an extra game, which they won on Saturday night, played maybe, probably their best game of the season, but then made the change for seeing the next morning. So obviously, decision made after the Sharks game. It was just a good game. And who could, you know, who could say that was a good game? Did you watch that game? The Sharks game? I could not. No. No, I said I'd stay up if it was, if it was going to be the Sharks first win, but. Sure. That game rocked. That game was so fun. I don't know how else to put it to you.

I had a fucking blast watch in that one. But, yeah, no, I mean, look, I'll see if I can pull up the stats real quick. But these were the stats from the day Jay Woodcroft was fired. Like, they fired him on Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon, I guess it was maybe. Morning local time, at least. And these were the Oilers ranking. in all situations statistics. Shots 4. 5th.

Shots against, 8th. Unblocked attempts, 6th. Unblocked attempts against. Fifth. Total attempts against. Third. Expected goals 4. 5th. Expected goals against 9th.

Scoring chances 3rd. Scoring chances against 9th. High danger chances first. High danger chances against 3rd. This is the profile. of a team that's extremely fucking good. Yeah. So again, were you at all surprised that they would fire the coach after?

No, man, they're stupid. It's a stupid organization. They make bad decisions all the time. Yeah. All right. I mean, I can't really argue with that. Jay Woodcrop had the best winning percentage in the history of the Oilers. Yeah.

Points percentage, I should say. You should say that, yeah. Yeah. And he's out. And I guess the delay between the Sharks game and Sunday morning would be that Ken Holland had to type NHL coach Connor McDavid question mark and just see who came up. And then he was like, oh, wow, this Jay Woodcroft guy apparently coached Connor McDavid for a few hours. You did a pretty good job it looks like. Yeah, I mean, we can talk about the Chris Knoblock hiring in a second.

but I do want to say this about firing Jay Woodcroft. Like it was, it felt like it was going to happen. It could have happened, you know, after a loss. It could have happened after another way, like, whatever. If your team is supposed to win the president's trophy or the Stanley Cop or whatever you want to say, the Oilers, like big goal was this year, didn't seem like they were going to get there with Jay Woodcroft, right? Like, did not. They had two wins.

Well, I guess three after they, after they won that game that, you know, they had already made the decision. They had two wins at the time. And, you know, that's how it goes in this league. And especially in Edmonton where all they ever do, oh, we have a problem, better fire the coach. I think some, I think the stat is this is Ken Hitchcock or Ken Hitchcock's, Ken Holland's fifth coaching hire there, maybe, something like that. It was some high number given. It was insane, yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, this predates Ken Holland, too. Like, they, they go through coaches like, this is their 10th coach in the last 16 seasons, not including whoever was the interim for the end of one of the seasons. Ten coaching hires in 16 years. It's pathetic. It is. I don't know what else to say about it, I guess. It's just, it's tough because you're like, you read all the numbers.

Yeah. This team is much better than their record says, apart from the goaltending that stinks out loud. But, I mean, a coach can't fix his own goaltenders. And Woodcroft was a good coach. So there was a strong argument for sticking it out. And yet sometimes you do just need. to maybe shock a group back into something. Well, again,

they sent the goalie to the AHA. I don't know if we talked about that if it had happened as of the record last week. But yeah, they sent Jack Campbell to the AHA. Fair enough, you know, whatever. You know what is save percentages in the AHA right now? I don't know what it is, but I saw highlights of him just getting lit up last night.

He's played three games. He's running 819.19. Yeah. He's broken. It's over. Well, I don't want to say it's over. But it's not good. It's pretty close.

Right now, for sure. This is, this is, yeah, I mean, I don't know what you do at this point. Maybe sit them down for a while and just, you know, I don't know if they've got a goalie whisper. They can send out to just work with them. Man, if they did, that guy. I probably. Probably get them in there. So yeah.

And yet, through all of this, what would you put, what percentage chance would you have that the Oilers are in the playoffs by the end of the year? Maybe it's a little below 50 now? Yeah. I don't know. It feels like at least 50, right? Like, I mean, I'm just saying your own guy, right? Yeah, coin flip. Yeah, MoneyPuck says 56%.

That feels maybe a little option. optimistic to me, just because the ducks keep winning and all that bullshit. Like, you know, um, there's only, there's only so many playoff spots per, per division. So, you know what? Would not be a bad, uh, use of funds if you were a gambling sort, which you should not be. But a couple of bucks on, uh, Chris Knoblock as Jack Adams winner. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It doesn't feel terrible right now. Yeah. I mean, you know, there's nothing to fix, right? You look, I just read off all those stats. They're top 10 in basically every underlying number. I don't think there's one where they weren't top 10 at the time. And so you just go, like, I don't even want to call it a dead cat bounce because it's not like things can't get any worse in how they're playing. It's things can't get any worse in how the bounces have gone for them.

Or whatever you want to say. Like the, the goaltending can't be worse, certainly, than it has been. And so, like, here's Knoblox big job, ready? Keep it up, guys. Yeah. Puck's going to go in. Like, I can't remember what the stat was, but, like, Connor McDavid, like, you know, first in the league in high danger chance creation and, like, a hundred and 90th in high

danger chance conversion. when he's on the ice. And it's like, well, how long do you think that's going to last? I don't know. They're going to, yeah. It's every sign, every sign on the dashboard is blinking with an up arrow. Other than the goaltending, they do need to figure that out. But again, they got a guy, you know, Jack Campbell, I think, is cooked for the short term,

but Stuart Skinner's good. we think I think So and look like A lot was made of the change to the defensive system and everything and I think the main problem with the defensive system because this is this is the thing that you heard a lot right is That maybe the maybe the personnel weren't suited to the system I think I think you can argue that But you can't say like

What a lot of people have said which is look at all the high danger chances they're giving up. Well, they're top 10 in the league and not giving them up, right? So that is, that is absolutely a, the puck went in the net, so it must have been bad scenario. Like, this is just how people read it. And it's, it's like, well, that's not actually true. I get why someone would look at what they're doing and go, this is all fucked up, you know, but it's not actually the case. It's, in fact, the opposite. So, I don't know, to me, yeah like you said knoblock everybody's gonna be wow this guy changed everything he fucking doesn't have to change a thing and it's all gonna be fine well but in the other change

that's going to directly contribute success is Paul Coffey also going behind the bench finally an ex-Ebenton oiler is here to fix the Evanton Oilers yeah and I mean I've seen a lot of people making

a big thing out of like he's the damn Cate's guy. Like, he is the direct line, like, his official title is like advisor to the owner or something along those lines. And so everybody's like, oh, he's just there to be a snitch. Yeah. Okay.

I mean, I guess they haven't tried that. That could go great. Yeah, could. Yeah, why wouldn't it? But yeah, guy has no, no NHL coaching experience. And I don't mean head coaching. I mean, like, he's never been on an NHL bench except as a player. And, you know, first time forever.

Like, it's not to say he doesn't understand the sport or anything. But let's just say he wasn't hired for his coaching resume. He'll be able to fix, just go up to Darrell Nurse and be like, have you tried being like three times faster than everybody else in the league? You should do that. Pass it to Gretzky. Hey, he also played with Mario Lemieux. Back off.

He played with a lot of guys, I think. He did. I heard about that. Yeah. A lot of teammates. But yeah, so the decision to hire Knoblock, like, and I wrote about this on Sunday, the day the coaching change happened.

I don't buy the whole. whole like we didn't, like everybody's saying Connor McDavid had nothing to do with this decision. Like, at least in terms of, um, he didn't say you got to hire my junior coach. Yeah. I guess I can,

can believe that. But let's not pretend that this decision wasn't made entirely because, uh, this guy was car McDavid's junior coach. Yeah, very, very largely. And, and two, Two thoughts on that, because I saw the quote, I'm sure everyone did with McDavid, where he was asked, like, did you have any heads up on this? And he said, oh, I found out the same time you guys did. Which doesn't, by the way, necessarily mean he had no input. It just means he found out about the final decision.

Yeah. Yeah. But my first thought was, oh, well, I mean, there's no way because you're not going to hire a guy who has a history with your. franchise player without at least checking with that franchise. But what if what if he hates the guy? What if he, you know, he was miserable with it. But then I remembered who the president is in Edmonton is. And it's Jeff Jackson, Connor McDavid's agent right up until he took the Edmonton job. And I'm guessing he would know.

So it is possible that this had nothing. Right, I wouldn't have to check with Conn't. Yeah. Yeah. but this does put McDavid in a bit of a awkward position right like even like just with his teammates where it's like a hundred percent no this is what I wrote about it doesn't matter if he did or didn't have direct knowledge that this hire was being made like did he sit in on a meeting or or anything like that probably not but like that that doesn't like perception is reality I hate to break it to people perception's reality and anything. anything the Oilers do from here on out? Well, the Oilers brought in Conner's agent to run the team. They brought in Connor's junior line mate, who's awful, by the way, been terrible, hasn't

played that 10th game yet. But, you know, if he plays one more second, they own $4 million. Uh-oh. And now they're bringing in his junior coach. Like I said, perception's reality. All anybody's going to go is, or think is. locally, you know, anywhere else in the league, they're going to go, well, whatever happens now. This is on Connor McDavid.

This is Carter McDavid's team. Full stop. There's no way to not have that perception at this point. I would agree. And so. See where it goes. But we both think it's going to go in positive direction. Yeah, I think so.

But so the concern is this. What if the losing lasts another month? Obviously, they've won two in a row. But if the losing lasts another month, how do people react to that? And what if they don't win? Because that's interesting. What would be success for them at this point? Making the playoff, sure, but like how deep do you go, oh, once they make the playoffs,

they also have to win two rounds or whatever? Does this kind of reset expectation? I don't know. I think making the playoffs and losing the first round is not a success. I think the minimum is what they had last year, which is make the playoffs win a round and then lose a close series to a very, very good team. In their case, they lost to the Golden Knights who won the Stanley Cup. I think anything less than that, you consider that failure.

Okay. Given the expectations going in. And like I don't think this recent. It resets a little bit maybe. But I don't think it resets it a lot. Okay. Yeah. Like, I just...

Especially since, like, if they, for them to miss the playoffs now, like, they're not, they're well out of the playoffs if they started today. But with five months to go, they're not that far out. Like, they don't have to play at 120 point pace or anything. I did see Greg today tweeted if the playoffs started today. or first of the year. Brother, can we get to fucking November 20th before we do this shit?

We can't. What are we talking about? Man. That is, that drove me crazy this morning. Oh, if the playoffs started today, well,

I guess they only got to play like 65 more games than then they will. Yep. Pretty cool. So it's not like the Oilers have to play at 120 point pace

to make the playoffs. It's not like if they miss the playoffs. by one point, you're going to look back and say, oh, okay, but under the new coaching, they were, they were aware, they just couldn't dig out of that hole. Like, they've got time. This isn't, I guess, you know, the Canucks from last year maybe would be the example where you'd say they waited so long that by the time they did make the change and turn things around, it was too late. It's not too late. Yeah, they were ready to pull the trigger. And I would think that has a lot to do with, let's say,

the age and job status of the general manager. Uh-huh. If I had to just put something out there about that. Um, because, you know, Jay Woodcroft didn't sign these fucking goalies. You know what I'm saying? He did not.

No. No. Um, you didn't sign Connor Brown. How's Connor Brown doing? You know? Again, like, this is just like, guys aren't going to fire themselves. And the rumor is that Ken Holland was going to retire after this season regardless.

Yeah. I've seen that in a few spots. So with the thinking being that he's not unfirable, but that it's... What would be the point? Yeah. And the point would be... Yeah. To make someone, you know, pay for not getting this Edmund to an Oilers team to be any good at all.

Yeah. Or also having somebody in that. position during the year that you trusted to do a good job. Yeah, it's not like the problems building the team started this week, you know? No. Although I have seen, like, you know, and I don't think it's an unfair point. I've seen some people push back and go like, wait a second. Everybody was picking these guys to win the Stanley Cup.

So, and now everyone's like, oh, Ken Holland's done a terrible job. The team stinks. And people are like, you know, which, which is it? Now, part of the answer to that is, well, Ken Holland inherited Connor McDavid. He inherited Leon Dressiderly inherited Ryan Nugent Hopkins. So a lot of what makes this team good was already there. So you can say that the team is good without, and at the same time criticized the job, Kent Holland did. But I do think there's a little bit of this, like, yeah, everybody saw this coming because the roster is so flawed.

Right. I think to me it's more, it's more like, how do I want to put this? I guess it's like, it was always the, well, look, if X goes wrong, like, you know, if you said, okay, the Oilers have three wins on November 15th. Why do you think that is? Oh, Connor Brown didn't work out, the goalies sucked. Like, you know, that's not the hard part to predict here. Let's put it that way.

I think you would be shocked about like, oh, Connor McDavid shooting 4% or whatever the number is. Sure, you know, but, you know, I think the, I think the issue is that the biggest problems here were extremely predictable. Mm-hmm. So that's all. I think that's fair. Yeah. So, yeah, do you have any other, like, you know, everybody's saying like, oh, Woodcroft will get a, job the second he wants it and blah, blah, blah.

I think that's true. Now, I always say this about when a coach gets fired, obviously, and not just, you know, who's better. I don't know if Knoblock's better or worse. The AHL record kind of indicates it's not, but I saw people bagging on that and it's like, yeah, man, he was coaching the Rangers quote unquote prospects in the AHL, like not exactly a team known for developing talent or even having a lot of it on hand. Yeah, tremendous amount of success in juniors, not as much in the HL seems to be.

Right. Yep. And in juniors, of course, you know, he got to, a good chunk of that. He was coaching like Alex to Brinkett and Conner McDavid, things like that. You know, it helps. It helps. But if I'm Jay Woodcroft, I'm like, I'll let the Oilers pay me for a while. That's fine. Yep. I'm just going to sit at home. I'm gonna, you know, hey, there's probably some pretty good stuff on Netflix right now, you know? Probably, yeah. So just, you know, sit back, relax.

I wouldn't be in a big rush to, because here's the thing, maybe not everybody agrees with this. Work sucks, in my opinion. Yeah. If I may quote the great philosopher is Blink 182. You know, if you can get someone to pay you to not work, you know, you know, if you can get someone to pay you to not work, you know, Take the opportunity. That's all I'm saying. Yep.

That's my advice to everyone in the world. Do you think Wilcraft's next job is a head coach in the NHL? Now, that's very interesting because I feel like we talked about this last week. It seems like a lot of coaching hires these days are guys who are on like their first or second job in the NHL. It's not a lot of the, you know, the Mike Babcock and John Tortorella, guys who have been around for a million years style hires anymore. I can't remember the number,

but it was like a majority of the coaches in the league are on their first or second job in the NHL. Okay. So I can see teams going that direction, but I can also see teams kind of being like, well, I mean, look, this guy couldn't win with Connor McDavid. I don't know. It's tough, right?

Because I don't feel like he's quite at the point where it's like, yeah, slam dunk, someone will hire him. There'll be a lineup of teams. But also, if you bring him in as an assistant, for example, he immediately becomes the head coach in waiting. Like, he's immediately the guy that the second you lose two games in a row, everyone's like, oh, what about this guy? The Andrew Brunette effect, yeah. Yep, exactly. which actually didn't actually didn't come to pass in

New Jersey but yeah anyway yeah I guess I don't have a lot more to say about this I think the Oilers will be fine and well I guess it sounds like we both think that so

you know I can't get too worked up about oh the Oilers fired their coach yeah it's fucking it's November they do that it's just one of those things They'll be fine. I don't, I don't, it's a coin toss if they make the playoffs. And that's going to be a huge fucking disappointment. But it's just how it is.

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They've sold out a lot of packs, but there are. all limited to like, you know, 5,000 or less, basically. So it seems like there's roughly 5,000 freaks out there who are spending, you know, 50 bucks on, here's an animated gift of Sydney Crosby skating backwards. But I do want to, I do want to say this. They have a section on the website, which, by the way, is still in beta, it says, even though they took it out of beta today. It says, how to collect, you open packs of

collectables. That's one. Okay. Step two, collect your fandom. Hmm. Cool. That's... Me and Sean were just saying,

we're always looking for ways to collect our fandom. Yeah. You know? And with NHL breakaway, we can do it. And then step three, this to me is the most important part. You've got to build that community. Oh, yeah. Build your community.

That's step three. And, uh, once I'm done collecting my fandom, I'm always looking to build my community. So, this is, this is the, this seems like it's the place to be. I'm going to spend, I'm,

I'm going to set aside like $30,000 to pick up some of these. And I'm going to buy them from you in three days for $6. I like how the video is like, it's like a full screen video, but it's like blurry. And, like, oddly color corrected. That makes this feel cool.

Do you think they made it in quick time or something? Yeah, no, it just, it tells me that this is different and cool. Oh, okay. And that it, there's, it's also looping, it's like the same three plays. But Phoenix Copely is making a save. So that's, that's cool. Now that is a rare at FT. Okay.

Yeah. There's an exclusive heroic highlight if you complete the base. That's pretty cool. A heroic highlight? What could it be? This is giving me the now vibes of like the one time each year that I try the latest NHL game. Yeah.

And it's like trying to make it, which maybe is what they're going for because I hear everybody. Everybody loves that. Oh, it says here the key visual. Silver metallic and it says no ring. Oh, must be the Joe Thornton. Hey, come on, man. This guy's just retired. Yeah, I take it back.

That's not nice. Hey, speaking of guys who are close to retirement, Patrick Kane is coming back. Yep. Now, I didn't know this. Someone pointed this out to me. You know what kind of surgery he had in the offseason? The same kind as Nicholas Baxter who can't skate anymore in his, you know, days away from retiring. Yeah.

Pretty interesting. I think that's where you get this, all of these clips of him like skating and practicing and looking great. But yeah, the history of people coming back and playing at a reasonably high level, not even superstar level, but like at any level after this surgery is not great. Nope. Now, someone's got to be first, you know, Jack Eichel with his neck. issue was among the first to come back and he looks great, but he was also not 35 or whatever.

And he was also, you know, like a neck surgery doesn't limit your mobility on the ice, you know. And also he was first in getting the surgery and it seems like that surgery worked. Yeah. Patrick Kane is not the first guy to get this hip resurfacing surgery. and everybody else that's done it, they were like, oh, I can't play hockey anymore, actually, it turns out. So I don't, I understand.

He's one of the stars of yesteryear, I would say, for Patrick Kane, right? Like, it's been a minute since he was like Patrick Kane. I think it's fair to say. Decent with the Rangers last year, but certainly not what I think people think of Patrick Kane being. Is that fair to say? I think that's fair. And according to Larry Brooks, the Rangers are not one of the teams that seems interested in him, which maybe tells you something.

That's smart. I would not want to be in the business of signing a, like you said, like 35-year-old guy or whatever Patrick Kane is. He's in that neighborhood if he's not actually 35. who's coming off insanely like, what would be the word? Like a hip surgery guys don't often come back from, let's say. And he's going to want like whatever, five million bucks in two years or something like that. This is a classic, let someone else make that mistake. But I guess what will be interesting is if that's what he wants or,

Is this a situation where you can sign him to a cheap deal that's bonus laden? I don't think he's eligible for a 35 plus contract. Is he not? Okay. Well, I don't think he is. I think he turns 35 soon. But, like, he had to have been 35 on, I think it's July 1st.

You're right. He turns 35 next week, in fact. Wow. Happy birthday, Patrick Kane. Here's a bunch of money for him a team that's, going to be mad that they signed you. Yeah. So yeah, I certainly wouldn't be looking to make a big commitment. Obviously, if it, you know, if it doesn't work, if it goes the Baxter way, then, you know,

you've got LTIR, but that still feels risky. And yet, I mean, this is a guy with some star power. I still feel like Buffalo is going to want to bring. bring them home. Sure. That's going to be a hard one to resist. I don't think Kevin Adams ever played with Patrick Kane. That's true.

Speaking of Buffalo, I guess we should quickly mention Tage Thompson out maybe a month with a wrist injury. They've just said out for a while. I haven't seen anything more specific than that. I saw a Buffalo reporter say could be a couple weeks, could be a month. Okay. Well, that sounds better than maybe what it originally looked like. Yeah. Nevertheless, not...

Got hit with a puck. I'm not even sure to say, like, hit with a puck or was blocking a shot because it was a weird one, but he got hit on the hand by a shot. He technically was credited with a blocked shot, but I wouldn't say he was trying to block it. Yeah. Which, again, kind of leads to that whole, like, we've all just sort of accepted that. that everybody has to block shots, but there is that part of it where it's like, is it, does it smart for your franchise player

to be out there throwing himself in front of a slap shot, although in this case, it just kind of came up and got a... It happened, yeah. You know, that's a classic, that's hockey style injury. You don't want to see it, especially with the way Buffalo has started, like a bit of a disappointment after last season, all that kind of stuff. but yeah anyway

like I to me like everybody sharing you know basically like the the the big foot footage where he kind of he's walking away from the camera but he looks back over his shoulder like that's the kind of footage that people were tweeted

here's Patrick Kane skating it looks great I'm going oh okay I guess I guess you're the expert here I don't know yeah um like I said I just I just can't imagine wanting my team to be in the business of being the one that gives Patrick Kane this contract.

Somebody's going to, and the rumor is that Buffalo was going to offer him two years and four million bucks or something like that. But I just, you know, yeah, he's a name player, but the risk on this just seems so high that I wouldn't want to get involved with it. Yeah. Like if you take the name value away and you just say, this is a guy who had, I mean, he had 57. I'm looking at his numbers. Yeah, the scoring isn't the problem. He had 92 points two years ago. I would not have realized that he was that productive just two years ago, which you could talk yourself into, like, as a healthy player.

Well, the scoring is what a lot of teams need to, right? Like if you're getting, not the 92 point version, but if you're getting a guy who can 60 or 70 point pace over a full year, there's not a lot of guys like that available for for free in free agency. Yeah, I guess my point is that was before he had hip resurfacing surgery. And it can't even like remember last year there were so many caveats about like, okay, look, you've got to keep in mind. Like he's being pretty productive for a guy who needs hip.

surgery was kind of like the talking point last year. Yeah. And so he got the hip surgery. And he's like, oh, I actually feel better than I ever have. And I haven't looked this up, but I'm going to guess Nick Baxter had some pretty similar quotes roughly one year ago. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I don't know.

I hope he gets back and I hope he, I hope he, I hope he lights it up because it's more fun and guys like that are, I like a comeback story. Yeah, like I said, I would just really hope that my team wasn't the one giving him the contract. Fair enough, yeah, for sure.

I guess the other thing going, hey, we talked about one team in Alberta. Let's talk about another one. They have two. Apparently, Nikita Zedorov has requested a trade out of the Calgary Flames organization. After being pretty outspoken, the last few weeks,

let's just say. and, you know, guys wanting out of Calgary is certainly not something new in recent weeks or months, right? Mm-hmm. But it does seem like this is kind of starting, like, you know, the snowball that starts. I guess you would say the Tofoli trade over the summer. But then they're like, oh, they're going to resign all their guys. Michael, Michael Backland's back. They're talking to Noah Hanif and they're talking to Elias Lindholm.

Okay, sure. And then they suck to start the season. And we got we got to put a pause on all transactions or whatever. And not really clear if the player of the team was like, why don't we not do this right now? Well, the Noah Hanifin one is fascinating because I think it was Elliot and his 32 thoughts column this week said it was like there was a $60 million deal that was pretty close. And that the way I read it was it sounded like Hanofin was the first one to say, can we wait and see how the season starts out? and that now the ship has sailed on both sides. But that's fascinating to me because as much as, you know,

I'm always the guy going these players should bet on themselves and all this stuff, but it's pretty tough to put a pause in a $60 million contract. Yeah, I don't know. It's a lot of money, man. But yeah, the Zedorov thing was weird because that actually broke, Friday night, the flames are in Toronto

in a game they ultimately lost. He has a big hit, but he doesn't get a lot of ice time in the game. And his agent tweets out, like, during the game, that he wants a trade. And then immediately all the, like, the Toronto media have, like, are tweeting out, like, oh, yeah, he wants a trade, and he would welcome a move to Toronto, which is just, doesn't that seem weird

that they would name a specific team that he was trying to get one of those I'm just going to pick up my bag, walk down the hall, trades going. Yeah, but it's not good. I mean, if I'm Craig Conroy, I'm, I don't want to trade them to Toronto now

because now I look like I'm just being pushed around, right? So I wonder if it was, you know, like is this like a 40, D chess thing where they're trying to juice the market to somewhere else and they just know that if you throw Toronto into it that

everyone, you know, suddenly people like us are talking about a second pairing defenseman on a middling team as a trade target. But I don't know. It was it just, I can't remember ever seeing like a non-superstar

be like I want to be traded and to this team. or I would welcome to this team. He wasn't saying like I only wanted, this wasn't, he wasn't like pulling an NBA thing, but to name a specific team. Yeah.

It was odd. No, I guess the thing is, right, is like, kind of, is there, is there a huge market out there for Nikita Zedorov at this point in this career? Well, I mean, it sounds like, maybe not a huge market, but three or four teams.

Justin Boren, I think, had a great point where he said, if you trade for this guy, inevitably, there's going to come a point where you realize why a 6-foot-5, 250-pound defenseman who can score 15 goals in a year is going to be on his 15. And why, like, nobody on any of those other four teams seems to really miss them all that much. Like, clearly this is a guy who has got some. some highlight reel to his game, but maybe also not the boss's consistency. When he went to Calgary,

everybody was like, yeah, he kind of sucks. He's gigantic. Can't take that away from him. And, you know, can play. Well, I mean, he scored a lot last year. That was the only year that he had scored a lot. So maybe just everything went in.

But yeah, it's one of those things where you look at it and you go, oh, how many teams is this? played on? Oh, okay. Let's put it this way. I think he makes a lot of sense. If you're Calgary and you're going to start doing the rebuild, retool, whatever, it makes a lot of sense for him to be one of the first guys you look at moving. Oh, of course. I'm going to see. Can I remember he played for, I think he broke in with Buffalo then Colorado, Chicago, Calgary. Is that?

That's it. Yeah. Yeah, for me, I, you know, I'm just, the Noah Hannafin thing and Nikita's Dora of requesting a trade and maybe now you're not going to bring back Lindholm. I'm looking at this going, everybody is doing everybody else here a favor, actually. because they're forcing Calgary's hand on a rebuilder or retool, which they desperately need. Like, this isn't a particularly competitive team, in part because of all the bad contracts they have on the books. And if we're like saying that,

then all these players being like, oh, I kind of don't want to stick around for a rebuild. That only helps the rebuild. you know so to me like this is it's mutually beneficial for

for everybody involved here to just be like yeah let's let's just let's just take a break here and see where we're at and maybe move on yep and as we've discussed before Craig Conroy was pretty clear

that he did not want to have another John Edgargerow situation with his star players so that would appear to mean it's either going to be a extension or a trade for a lot of these guys.

By the way, speaking of Johnny Goddrow, seems like he did them a favor by not resigning because he's been horrible this year. Yeah, he's not very productive. Can't get Ice Time in Columbus? That's bad.

Yeah. I don't know how else to put it to you. That is stupid. that ranks so high up there on the weirdest UFA signings ever. Yeah. I want to be closer to home. Of course, you know, Columbus is very close to southern New Jersey.

I don't know, man. That's okay. And just at the time, you're like, well, if it works, it works. Hasn't worked yet. Nope. But yeah, like I say, I'm looking at the Calgary Flames going. Oh, you know what? these guys need is to not try to be competitive for a while because they're trying it and they

but and boy Sean you want to talk about a good segue. A certain someone I know wrote an article on this very day about teams with a lot of red arrows on their cat friendly page. This came out of, I can't remember if it was the main show or one of the mailbags that we were talking about this a week ago. The Red Arrow Index. How many Red Arrowes do you have on your cap-friendly page indicating contracts that are so long they do not fit on the page?

There were some surprises. Were you surprised by the team that had the highest score, the highest number of Red Arrowls? You know, I read it this morning and I don't remember which team that is. Clearly it made hell of an impact. Yeah, I must not have been surprised.

Apparently you weren't. I was. I was surprised. I thought it was going to be the Tampa Bay Lightning. They have a lot. They have the second most. They have six red arrows. And the thing that's surprising there is not on the guy, not on the franchise guys. Vasilevsky's got a lot of years left, but he's no longer a red arrow. Not Stamcoast, obviously, not Kuturov, not Hed. Braden Point is really the only core guy there. And then it's a bunch of secondary service. Nick Paul or whatever. Nick Paul for some reason. Brennan Hagel, the guys like that. And it's sort of like, well, you know what?

I don't like the look of this, but also they won two cups. Flags fly forever. You know, you can sort of get it. And then you keep going. And there's one more team that's got even more of these guys than the two-time champion lightning. And it is the New York Islanders. That's right.

It is the island. So I guess I was like, I guess my reaction to the Islanders one was, was, oh, right, they have a lot of bad contracts. Like, I knew it, but I guess I hadn't. And as I say in the piece, I'm not even saying that having a red arrow is necessarily bad, because obviously there's a lot of cases where it's good. Jack Hughes contract. Red arrow. Yeah.

You're thrilled. If you're a devil's fan, you must think of that contract at least once a day and just randomly feel happy. So, you know, it's not to say that these are all bad, but you look at the Islanders guys. And it's, I don't have it in front of me, but it's Sorokin, which, you know, it's a goalie. But I think of any goalie, that's the guy you'd be okay with. Yeah, one of only two goalies in the league. Yeah. The other being Connor Hallibuck.

Hellibuck. The contract has not started yet. Yeah. And then from there it's Barzell and Bo Horvatt, which... Okay, sure, that's fine. And then it's just a bunch of guys. I just pulled up the page. Engval, Poulock, Pellick, and Mayfield.

Scott Mayfield. Yeah, oh, you got to lock into Scott Mayfield, who's 31, by the way, until 2030. Yeah. I believe he is the second old... oldest player on the list. There were two guys that were 31. I don't remember which one was older, but Mayfield's one of them. Nobody who's 32, and one guy

in the league who's already 33 that has a red arrow. And that's Nazim Cadry. Oh. Yeah, this article, I mean, you know, it's not great for Islanders fans, but it's also not great for Flames fans. Although I don't, you know, I don't think there were any

flames fans out there who didn't know that Nazim Cadry and Jonathan Hubertoe had bad very long contracts, but... Right, for sure. Oh, man. The Hubert O one, I think, is the third or fourth biggest cap hit. And the guys ahead of them are like McKinnon

Pasturac and maybe somebody else who's like certified a superstar. Yeah. Oh, it's Dalai, Rasmus Dallon. Okay, yeah, sure. That checks out. And then it's Jonathan Huberto. Oh, boy.

God. Whoever signed that contract will never work again in the NHL, I'll tell you. No, certainly, certainly not. No, guy like that, if he, if he hit the job market, he wouldn't get it, he, he wouldn't get a new gig within minutes. No, certainly not. No, he wouldn't deserve it, guy like that.

Yeah, but that's, that's my point in, in talking about the flames here is like, there's no future for these fucking guys. I don't know how else to put it to you. you know, they're, they're not, even if they, even if they somehow made the playoffs this year, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, I suppose. But even if they did, like, what are they fucking accomplishing once they get there, you know? Mm-hmm. And I guess the answer is like $5 million in gate revenues.

And if that's all you're playing for, then more power to you, I guess. Well, and, you know, this is something that comes up every now and then is, teams that are looking ahead to new arenas. This is kind of thinking that you don't want to be a rebuilding last place team with the new arena. Totally. I just looked it up. Pranman has them 21st in the prospect pipeline rankings. She's not terrible, but not.

It sucks. No, that it is. For a team that hasn't had much success, yeah. Yeah, if you're bottom 20 or whatever, bottom 12 in the league, 13, that's bad. I, you know, it could be worse. Yeah, the other teams around them are either teams that have done a lot of winning. And now, you know, they're paying the Piper, kind of, so to speak. I was going to say teams that have just started rebuilding.

But no, everyone after them is a good team that has either won something. There's the Leafs who, you know, there's the Canucks and then there's the Islanders. which, again, God, the Islanders are so screwed. Yeah. The thing with the Islanders is we all know the deal here. This is, they have a GM who's 80 and is like, well, screw it, it's not going to be my problem. Like, totally. Lou Lamarillo is not going to be a GM in five years when Scott Mayfield is still on.

Scott Mayfield. I'd take that bet, by the way. I bet Lou, I bet Lou's still around five years ago. Cyber Lou. Polygram Lou is... That's right. And did you know, how... I mean, you read the article and it obviously made a bird itself into your memory, but

the typical fan, I wonder how long it would take them to figure out the cheapest cap hit of any player. Got to be up there for the strangest contracts in the league. Cheapest cap hit of any player? Like, with a red arrow, you mean? With a red arrow, yeah. There's a guy with a $2.5 million cap hit. Weird. On a contract that stretches six plus years.

And I'll tell you what, I'm going to tell you the player. We're going to play a little impromptu game of who he play for. Okay. Miles Wood. Oh, didn't Miles Wood sign with the ducks? Avalanche. Avalanche. Jesus Christ.

Okay, I guess I didn't know. He is a Colorado avalanche. Yeah. And he, you know what? Good for him. Hey, look. But how does that discussion even happen? Like, what?

Yeah. It's baffling to me. A player I've never thought was any fucking good. $15 million contract, $2.5 million a year. Hey, man, good for him. Yeah, good for, nice work. You know what? I said earlier about, about like, if you can get someone to pay you to not work, that's great.

If you can get someone to agree to pay you for a really long time, no matter how bad you are at your job, that's also really. good. He's, you know, Miles Wood is the, he's the screen grab, the, you know, it doesn't matter how much they suck, they still got to give me the two million. That's him. He's that guy. Totally. Yeah. Um, so yeah, the flames, like, like I said, there's no future there. I don't know, I don't know how if you're Craig Conroy, you steer out of this, you know, but I, I have a feeling that is not a short process there. The nightmare scenario for the flames, and I don't think it's an unrealistic one,

is that they wind up in like San Jose sharks from a couple years ago territory, where you stink and there's no path to being good again, but you've got all of these long-term deals on the books, so you also can't strip it down to the studs. Yep. brutal man you know

I think I think if you really if you really want to get you know deep into it I think you can make a pretty good argument that like the story of the Calgary Flames is being like a 94 point team in picking

ninth you know what I mean like his story we're speaking like were they whereas it was everyone like they should trade McGinnla and rebits and they just never did it felt like two or three year window and they didn't

until they finally didn't got nothing for him i bring it up all the time this is this is the j feaster uh we we were never trading againla we're going for it you know like i it it encapsulates you know not to pick on j feaster or whatever people would say you know but like it just encapsulates such a such a kind of mindset in the NHL, which again, it's just like the idea of like, well, what else would we do?

We got to try to be in the playoffs because we, you know, we got to make the gate revenues. Going for it, quote unquote, encapsulate such a, we're going to really try this year

to be a 94 point team. And maybe we get there, maybe we don't. That thought, that thought is so prevalent in the NHL and basically doesn't exist in most other leagues. In a lot of leagues, when teams are tanking or when teams aren't like in the top eight or ten in the league, they're tanking. There's very, very few teams in the NBA, for example, where they're going, you know, if we just barely scraped into the playoffs, we could do some damage. But there's also very few teams in the NBA that have ever.

scraped into the playoffs as underdogs and gone on a miracle run, whereas it seems to happen in the NHL every couple years. Yeah. No, you can, look, you can certainly convince yourself of your ability to, well, look, the Los Angeles Kings, they were, they were an eight seed, and they won two Stanley Cups in three years or whatever. Like, you, yeah, man, I guess you could be the exception to the rule. That's true. You could be them.

but in all likelihood you're not. And again, it's, it's, it's the idea we talk about it all the time of like, no, they're selling you the idea that they could be the team that does that. They're not like, I don't think they actually think they are. They're just selling you that idea with loser points and all this shit. Mm-hmm. Because they need to make that extra $5 million in revenue from hosting three playoff games and losing in the first round. because it's a gate revenue league and all these other sports are not

gate revenue leagues. We make money off TV leagues. Yeah, you're exactly right. So, you know, um, like good luck to the Calgary Flames with this rebuild. I don't have a lot of optimism for you right now, but things can change.

You know, they could, they could get, if they don't make the playoffs this year, They could absolutely win the draft lottery because they have it set up so that you can finish eighth and win the draft lottery, or eighth from the bottom and win the draft lottery. There's such an incentivization to just strive to be middling in this league. And the Calgary Flames could really accomplish it this year. I think this could be a 91 point team.

No problem. There you go. The most middle. mid-midly middest team. Although I mean, you're coming for the Minnesota Wilds throwing. You got to be ready because that is their house. That is historically where they live. How many teams are in the league?

There's 30 this year? Okay, we're 16th. Yep. Okay, great. Awesome, man. That's cool. So, yeah, why don't we take another break? We'll be right back and we'll wrap it up with some other.

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That's box of awesome.com code puck 20 for 20% off your first box. Box of awesome.com code pock 20. Okay, we're back and I feel like we have to talk about the hockey hall of fame. They let a bunch of guys and gal, well, one gal, I guess, in this weekend. Any thoughts on this? I didn't watch a second of it. Yeah, I didn't see a lot of it, but it's always a good weekend. It's always, you know, it's a little chance to celebrate some of the history.

We talked about this year's class in the summer when it was named. It's not the group I would have picked necessarily. But I don't think there's any, like, indefensible picks in there. There's no, there's no Giacarbonos that are sort of, you know, clogging up the drain on the whole thing. So, yeah, it's, it's. Nice to get a chance to celebrate some guys. Usually there's some good features and profiles written. If you're a younger, newer fan and you're not as familiar with some of these guys,

it's a good chance to get caught up. It's a cool weekend. I like the Hall of Fame. I like the debates. I like the discussions and all that. And I like the culmination of it, which is when we get a new class in there, and then we all immediately move on to next year and start arguing about that.

Yep. I'm sure you saw all the various who's getting in next year articles. Do you have any takes on these guys? Only that I thought that I thought that Gehrig's piece was interesting in the sense of is there a Russia factor? Because there's always a Russian factor in this league brother. But especially, yeah, especially now though, that with Pavel Datsu coming in, a guy who for years and years was talked about as a slam dunk first time Hall of Fame guy. And if he doesn't go in, then I think we can clearly say, okay, there's some, Greg had a quote where somebody either on or adjacent to the committee had said that, like, you maybe won't see any Russian players going for a while given world events.

I guess Datsuk will be the test of that. Alexander McGilney obviously remains a ridiculous exclusion. If Datsu gets in, then you would assume McGilney does, but maybe not, because we've, how many, I feel like for years, we've been saying you have to assume McGilney gets in and he doesn't. And then you get into some interesting, like Ryan Miller and Pecha Renee are in the mix. Who am I forgetting? There was somebody I thought was like a... So Marlowe, Gonchar, Colvichuk, Brindamore, of course.

Yeah. Keith Kichuk. Shay Weber is eligible. Shea Weber is the one. Yeah. Shea Weber is the other first year guy. And he's a lock. I think he's a lock.

But, you know, for the first time through, probably. But yes, I think he's going to get in. And Datsu gets in. It's just a question of when, I guess. And then you get into, you know, nobody's quite sure what to make of the goaltending because the fact that- Goleys never make it.

And this year there was a run on goal. Yeah. So did that open the door? Is that like, you know, the Curtis Joseph's or even Chris Osgood's like back in the running? Or was that sort of like, all right, we let a few in and now we're done for another decade on borderline goalie cases. And Marlowe's going to be interesting because this is a guy who, you know, A, he's got the games played record.

Yep. But this isn't like, it's not like Ken Danico set the game's record. Like Patrick Barlow's got well over 500 goals. I want to say well over maybe 1,200 points. Did he get 1100? Yeah, something like that probably, yeah. So, I mean, he's got. the career numbers to get in.

But again, it's like, yeah, because he played for 20 plus years and was like a solid 60-point guy every year. Right. It's the shamed own thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's going to be an interesting. I'm looking for it to next summer when we get to all argue about it. I think, like I say, I like this stuff.

This is... Yeah. Now, based on the last couple of years, I've officially, I'll reiterate, my stance of you're not going to get me. I'm a small hall guy, but I'm done acting like anybody should care about that because they'll just look, people are going to get mad about this. To me, Pabaldatouk is like the absolute top tier guy who should not be in the Hall of Fame. But like, whatever the line is, he's the first guy below that line.

Okay. To me. Now, is this purely? as a player or are you mixing in the fact that he turned out to be like a giant weirdo after he. Oh no this is as a player like I because here's the thing right like I don't

think it's a combination of I don't think he has the longevity like he didn't play a thousand games he didn't get to a thousand points he didn't get to 500 goals any of like the normal benchmarky stuff but he did win three straight Selkees yep and

I think I think if you win three Selkees you're like guaranteed to be the Hall of Fame. And I don't even think that's... Would say, No. Did he win three, though? I'm fairly sure he went three.

Yeah. I guess my thing is he had an unbelievable peak. Yeah. But that peak didn't last as long as people act like it did. Like, his case is really good for a really long time. Yeah. Just on the numbers. You're right.

I mean, 918 points. So didn't get. close to 1,000 314 goals. Now he was a playmaker, but... Sure. You know,

only 300 goals. One time, All-Star, it was a second-team All-Star the same year that he was a Hart Trophy finalist. Yeah, that's the year

he had like 97 points or something like that. Other than that, we had 97 points back-to-back years, but one of them, he, you know, it felt like that was the year,

everyone was like, all right, we got to appreciate this guy. And he would, he was a heart finalist, won the Selke, was never, never finished higher than 10th in any other Hart trophy voting year. So if you just,

if you knew nothing about hockey, you're just looking at his hockey reference page, you would say this is a pretty dicey case. Certainly not a slam. Let me ask you this. How much of his candidacy is the highlight reels? That's, I think, I think it's the highlight reel and it's the fact that every other player seemed to worship this guy.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was, see, like, again. He is the players, like, you know, there's that thing in comedy where it's like he's your comedian's favorite comedian. Like, Ravel Datsu was your favorite player's favorite player. And again, like, I'm going to get, people are going to be so mad. I'm not saying he sucks. I'm not saying, but I just think that on the balance of his entire career, he is the best, he would, I would say for me, I would go, he's the best player who should not ever,

who should not be in the Hall of Fame. Mm-hmm. And then like, because, you know, people are, I say this all the time. The fucking Eliash thing or like Henrik Zetterberg, and it's like, and they go, well, if this guy who sucks is in, then these other guys who are, you know,

like, I guess you're right. And this is why I don't argue this stuff anymore. You want to put them in? Put them in. I don't care. But to me, I can still have opinions on, like, should a guy be in the Hall of Fame?

I just, if you put him in, I'm just going to go, oh, okay. I guess that's what we're doing now, you know? Yep. So, he's the number one guy for me. And if he gets in, like, I'm not going to be like, he shouldn't be in the other. I, one million percent get why he would be in the Hall of Fame. But if it's up to me, like, if I'm the one-man committee, he's not in.

That's all. That's fair. Well. You know, you say it's fair. Is it allowed? Am I allowed to say it's fair? I don't know. You know?

Angry Detroit fans, go yell at Ryan instead of being mad at me for thinking Henrik Zetterberg is a ridiculous candidate. It is a ridiculous candidacy. That's what I'm saying, man. It is. You want to throw Chris Osgood under the bus just to get the hat trick? Oh, I think my stance on Chris Osgood is pretty well documented on this point. Good point. Yeah, that's fair.

They just found a guy who owned goalie pads. They were like, you want to stand behind Nick Lidstrom for 15 years? I mean, the other argument, the flip side, though, is for Datsuk. I mean, there are people out there who, if they had to make a three-man Detroit Red Wings team would take Pabell Datsuk over Steve Eisenman and Gordy Howe. Yeah, these people are 26 years old. Like, look, I don't think Eisenman never won an MVP. No, he didn't because he was He was prime Gretzky Lemieux

But he did win the Pearson Which is what was Now the Ted Linsins It's the Ted Lentzy, right So yeah I caught Okay I think I think I brought this up

I'm not gonna go that far He's better for sure But No I ran the numbers He came in a million times What? Okay, well The numbers don't lie

Yeah As a great man once said And they spell doom for you. But yeah, to me, it's, I'm just done getting worked up about this shit, man. Okay. I think we just spent 20 minutes talking about it. Well, no, like, what I'm saying is I used to be like, what kind of fucking dumbass do you have to be to be like, oh, Patrick Elia should be in the Hall of Fame?

Yeah, that is a psychotic opinion to me, absolutely insane. And if he got in, I would go, you know, two years ago, I would be going fucking ape shit if he got in. No, I'm just like, oh, they just let that guy in? Okay. Yeah. That's where I'm at with it. That's probably the right approach. I think so, too, yeah.

No, wait a second. I think my approach is the right one? That's crazy. Yeah. Good take, but another great take by me. All right. One of the thing, there was some kind of a board of governors meeting or some shit like that this week. They want to change three on three so you can't leave the zone with the puck after, like to do the reload in the neutral zone.

They're going to talk about it. I mean, if anything, I think the bigger news out of this is they apparently are not going to talk about extending three on three or dropping the shootout. So in other words, this is classic NHL, right? Like, they're going to tinker with something, but not change it in the way that everyone wants to change. I, you know what? Let's see it. The thing for me is, it was framed as, like, this is about offense. We want offense.

We want scoring in three-on-three. We want the games to end in three-on-three, so we have fewer shootouts. And so this is a change that we would make to, get there. But what's weird about it is the players doubling back as frustrating as it can be to watch, that's something they're doing for offense. That's not a defensive tactic.

That's an offensive tactic. And it's based on the fact that three on three overtime is a game of getting odd man situations. When three on three is flying and you love it, it's because it's going two on ones back and forth. When you get into the zone, though,

three on three and you get set up, it's actually pretty hard to make offense happen throughout three because you've got, you know, it's that old thing in hockey that you got to beat one guy with the puck or two guys with the pass. And it's hard to do that when you've only got two teammates available to you. So that's why guys go back, right? They go back to try to turn it into a rush situation. So now, would it maybe be the case that if you force them to make a play in the zone, that would lead to turnovers, which would lead to the rush? You know, maybe that's, maybe that's it.

I just feel like this is more about teams that are, have pointed out that overtime is becoming more and more possession-based where the opening face-off is super important because you might not touch the puck for two minutes if you don't win that face-off and being frustrated at that. But I don't know if that really translates to more offense. And I could see people getting frustrated. because they're like now it's just three on three used to be you know back and forth chances and now it's just this choppy you know zone play where there's not anybody open so they just throw it at the net and i don't know i i guess we'll see because it sure sounds like this is likely to happen and and you know i i would agree that when you've got a situation like we have in toronto where david camp is taking faceoffs to start overtime because it's just so

important to get the puck and then and then leaves and isn't seen again for the rest of the night maybe something has gone a little wonky but I'm just I'm not sure this is going to like whenever me and Gentilly do the the rules court thing yeah there's always five people submitting that like no over and back no you know have an NBA rule I'm not sure it would work the way people think but it sounds like this to me to the point you're making broadly This to me scans as, like, you know, I don't know how many friends you have like this in your life. But when I talk to people who are like, okay, fair enough, I don't think that actually is fair, but I get what you're saying. When I talk to people in my life who are like vaguely hockey fans, one of the big things they're always asking me about or complaining to me about, as the case may be, is when a team is trying to break into the audience.

offensive zone on the when they have a power play they do the thing where they pass it backwards and the guy with like builds up ahead of steam at the red line and like enters with with with a lot more speed right and they go that drives me fucking crazy I don't know why they do that blah blah blah and it's like well they do it because it works right like how many teams in the NHL do it how many teams in college hockey do it like it's a lot and the reason they do it like it's a lot and the reason they do it like I said, is because they have found over the years at the NHL level, at the college level, probably I don't watch enough major junior to know for sure, but probably at the major junior level. There are just like, you know, 30 teams that do it. And the reason why is it fucking works. And it's that simple. The reason that, why do they do that? It helps them get into the attacking zone more easily. Yep.

And it's the same thing. Why do teams reload? Well, during overtime. Well, it's because they find that it helps. Yeah. Right? And. But it helps offensive.

Like, this is not coaches saying circle back because, you know, that's more defensive and whatever. No, right. Well, that's what I'm saying. So what the issue people have with it is is they think it looks weird. Yeah. Right? Well, you were just in the attacking zone and you left. Why would you do that?

And it also, it's frustrating because it, like, The issue is it's frustrating because it eats up like 20 seconds of overtime, and we only get five minutes of this. So we're like, no, like we want to get to the fireworks factory here, which again, like make overtime 10 minutes. And you solve a whole bunch of problems. You know what really solves all these problems? Oh, let's make it 10 minutes.

Let's get rid of the over and back, you know, all this kind of stuff. Just have fucking ties again. What is the problem? them with a fucking tie at the end of the day, man. It drives me, we're trying to, oh, we, we got to, we got to figure out all these Rube Goldberg inventions to, to not have ties anymore. Okay, man, what if, hear me out. What if it didn't really matter?

Yeah. What, because here's what would happen. You would incentivize winning. Do you see? You don't get shit for, for losing an over, or you get a loser point for losing an overtime. You didn't get shit for losing in overtime? But then you wouldn't be able to sell this fake parody and fake success, which is such a huge part of what the NHL loves.

You will never get the GMs to vote on getting rid of a loser point. Oh, I understand. Which ties would do. Like I'm talking about getting rid of a system where league average is like 550. you will never get the GMs to vote that out. It will have to come from somewhere else. Right. But I'm with the ties.

Ties, especially if you had five minutes of three on three or even ten minutes of three on three and ties were rare. Okay. Then it was a tie. Like, we can live with them. Yeah, that's what I'm used to. It was fine. My other idea is ties happen, but like you still do the shootout. so the home fans can go home happy or whatever the fuck.

But shootout, like, win percentage is the number one tiebreaker for making the playoffs. So it matters, but not that much. Or the other one that I've always kind of been intrigued by is the idea that you always do a shootout, but you do it before the game. Yeah, right. And then that's the team that then you say, if it's a tie, that team wins. And like, as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't even, like, if the game starts at, you know, if the game is scheduled for seven and it's going to start at 710, do the shootout in the background while you're doing your dumb pregame show. I don't even want to see. Sure.

Just come on and be like, Leif's won the shootout tonight. So, you know, that means Montreal is going to have to really go for it in overtime or whatever. Yeah. Because, look, winning a shootout is just a coin flip anyway. It is. Right? So to me, again, I don't even want to fucking get into, oh, well, they should do this, this and this. You know, ideally it's just a three on three and we play till there's a winner.

Like if you're going to say it matters who wins, just do the three on three till there's a winner. That's what they do in basketball. If you're tied at the end of, you can have eight years are just collapsing, exhausted. Yeah, like I said, they... But you got to remember, NBA players can do that. NHL players can't, because we always say that NBA players are the toughest warriors. Oh, no, I thought that was... Right.

Right, that's the NHL guys, but... Yeah. They get sleepy if they make them do an extra few minutes from the time. Boy, you don't want to see some of these guys when they're so seepy. When they get... But they're so seepy? When they get tuckered, little cowboys. Oh, they...

Some of these guys, they're... I got their nap. But yeah. To me, it just like doing the thing of, well, you know, let's get rid of over and back or whatever. It's just like, let's do this to appease the dipshits who don't understand the sport. I'm just going to go ahead and say it's probably the lightning because I feel like the lightning this year have lost a bunch of overtime games where they've never even touched the puck. I saw one of the Leaf games, they literally, the Leafs had the puck for three minutes and finally scored. So you want my advice?

Try getting your hands on that puck. Yeah. Yeah, that might be all right. You know, like, if you don't, if you don't like losing, here's some advice, win instead. Simple. It's good, man. You should have applied for the oilers job. Look, it's going to work for an oblock.

I'm telling you. It's going to go great. I guess we should also talk about the PWHL teams are just like not going to have names and logos. because they tried it, and everybody was like, well, these are fake, right? These names and logos are like not real. I guess they didn't have the logos. It was just the names.

But they were like, these are made up. These are a funny joke for like April Fool's or something. And they were like, we actually unveiled them in October. Now, wait a minute. Hold on. That's unfortunate, especially, you know, I think a lot of us are rooting for the league to have. have some success and that's that's not going to be a great look.

I mean, that's, you, you're just going to look like a bunch of no name brands out there. Now, at the same time, if they, you know, if they're, if they're not ready yet and they pushed them out before they were ready, guys like us would be making fun of them. So I don't know. Well, you know, I've seen the argument made that like they had all this shit ready to go and the backlash on the name, or yeah, the team names was so bad and rightly so, by the way. that they were like, okay, we don't have team names now.

Right? Like, it seems like they didn't have backups or something. Yep. I don't remember all the names, but I just remember them being like, you gotta be, I remember the Boston Wicked and just being like,

come on, man. You gotta be shitting me. Yeah. And if they wanted to dull the perception, like you said, I don't want to be like, bagging on this league or whatever. But if they wanted to dull the perception that this wasn't like a fly-by-night operation

that like they slapped together in 15 minutes and was like, this is how professional women's hockey works now. This is not the way to do it. I'll just say that. So. Yep. Like I said, I hope they get this all figured out.

I hope it all goes really, really great. The Boston team is playing in Lowell, Massachusetts. So they have my vote. Now, should they be called the Loll Wicked or whatever? Yeah, of course they should be. You know, but can't win them all, I guess. And, yeah, I hope this league works.

Like, training camp started this week, right? Like, that was kind of part of the unveiling. Was like, oh, get excited. Here's a jersey. Like, I'll say this. Jerseys look nice. what I'd really like though is for them to have like a logo or a team name on it or something yeah not just the maybe I'm crazy across there yeah it's a radical idea but let's see if it works

yeah um and I guess we have to close the show as we so often do with a little bit of bad news roundup let's start with the the coach in the WHL who was suspended for allegedly slashing a stick out of a player's hand in practice. Yeah, and apparently there's videotape of it. Devin Prott, I believe, is how you say it, with current Broncos, so he is suspended indefinitely. Apparently the issue happened on Monday. He was suspended on Tuesday, so there's kind of,

I've seen two angles on this, one being like, man, these coaches are out of control, they don't get it. you know, here's yet another coach acting like a maniac. And the other was, hey, maybe this is finally an example of a system working because the incident happened, quick action was taken. Everyone seems on the same page. So, I don't know, hard to say.

And obviously more information could come to light. But, yeah, just kind of another one of those situations. What's going on over in the WHL? What is going on in the WHL? It doesn't seem like anything particularly good. You know, you don't want to let a few Apple spoil the bunch, but that's just not how that saying goes. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. It seems to keep happening in the WHL specifically, and what's that all about? I don't know the answer. But it sucks. You hope they can With all these new protocols or whatever You hope they can kind of sort out

Whatever's Whatever's been going on over there And You know hopefully it all It all gets better in the next year or three here But Yep Um

The other one is Someone I guess we can kind of put that in quotes Was arrested in the Adam Johnson case Yeah and that seems like it's bad. But I saw a lot of people who were like, I'm a British legal expert and not an American one.

And this is just kind of like a formality that you would have to go through a lot. Yeah. So, I mean, an odd situation, and I think like a lot of people, my initial reaction when I saw that news was surprised because, you know, based on the one piece of video that is out there, I did not think it would go in that direction. But, yeah, there is the, first of all, police have been investigating over there for a while.

Maybe they turned up something else. I've got to leave that possibility open. And apparently the concept of an arrest might feel different than over there than what it would mean over here. So I guess we wait and see. I mean, that's it. And the reason, you know, I've seen people trying to make something out of the fact that the news reports aren't naming who was arrested, but that's, I mean, that's UK law basically. That's how it works over there until someone is charged.

They won't say a name. I think we could all probably make our guess, but it's, you know, we didn't. I didn't get any, I didn't get my daily media instructions from the, from our media overlords that we weren't allowed to talk about it. It's just kind of respecting the UK process. Yep. And then the last piece of bad news, I guess, is the players in the hockey Canada, World Junior, sexual assault scandal. were found to have violated the code of ethics for hockey Canada, and they are appealing that.

They are appealing. So that kind of goes on hold until the appeal is heard. I haven't seen anything about how long that's going to take. Yeah. I think everyone is sort of anxious to see something come out of these various investigations. Obviously, the NHLs still on hold with their – not on hold, but no news to report from their side. So there is a process

and I guess better to respect the process than to push it along faster than it's supposed to go and then potentially leave a door open to somebody escaping punishment because something, some T wasn't crossed or whatever it is. But it's a frustrating situation. I think people are getting getting tired of waiting for some sort of accountability.

Yep. Yep. People are getting real antsy about this one. And one million percent understandably so. But like you said, you want to make sure every little particular of this is fully taken care of so that there is no no technicalities basically that can be exploited or whatever. And I mean, look, this is, it's serious stuff and people accused of serious stuff should have every right to defend themselves.

But I think that we're all kind of just, yeah, like with the Board of Governors or GM meeting or whatever was, somebody asked Bill Daley about it again. And he was like, no update. hard to have an update yeah we wait yep we'll keep waiting um and on that extremely pleasant note let's uh let's wrap it up here you got any plug shown find my stuff uh at the uh at the athletic um have the as we talked about the red arrow piece today and later this week i'm going to have a piece where i'm going to try to figure out if the uh current san jose sharks are better or worse than the original San Jose Sharks who were the worst team pretty much in the history of the world.

It's closer than you would think. I'll say this about that. It's really nice to have, to be able to have the dumb guy argument of could a college team beat the San Jose Sharks or the best junior team. First of all, I did have a friend asked me this week. who would win, you know, between the best college team and the best major junior team. And the answer is the best college team buy a lot in like a seven game series or whatever. Because there are guys on that team that are 25 years old. And there are guys on the junior team who are 16.

And so even if you have, you know, unbelievable, like, you know, future first picks overall or whatever, the best college team would physically dominate the second those guys were off the ice. Yep. And also, there was a big article in the Grand Forks Herald by Brad Schlossmann last week, I think, about how more and more elite level, American specifically elite level talents are just like, I'm not going to the OHL or whatever, I'm going to go to Minnesota or BU. And even, you know, Macklin Celebrini, he's Canadian. He's playing college hockey.

So you're starting to see some of that debate cropping up again. But yeah, the idea that an NHL team would even have the slightest bit of difficulty beating the best college team you can imagine is ridiculous. Yeah. But at the same time, I can't be the only one who thinks. that if the troops wanted to, they could put together a hockey team. And Dom. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

It goes without saying. Absolutely. Unbelief. That's one of those tweets where it got deleted years ago, and I'd still think. Like, there are just some tweets that should go, like, you know, this is me on my Indiana Jones shit. It belongs in a museum. Uh-huh. You know?

But, yeah, I saw that. I saw somebody asked that this week, and I was just like, come on, man. We don't. Could Alabama beat the Oakland Raiders? No. Not that they're the Oakland Raiders anymore, but you know what I mean. No, they couldn't. Full stop.

And, you know, you can't put it any more simply than this. How many guys on the best college hockey team this season are going to be in the NHL one day? Five, six, maybe even seven. Let's say eight. know how many guys on the San Jose Sharks are in the NHL right now? All of them. Yeah. So that's why.

And that, yeah, speaking of college hockey, I got bullied into doing a college hockey power rankings over elite prospects. It's me, it's J.D. Burke. It's Sean Shapiro and new EPRinkside edition, Sarah Sivian. got involved and filled out our little ballots or whatever. And of course, my ballot was perfect. All these other people, they don't watch the games enough, of course. Yep. But yeah, that was fun because I was like the only guy who didn't have Wisconsin

as the number one team in the country. Hmm. I had Quinnipiac, the reigning national champions who have no regulation losses this year. Okay. But, yeah, that's not enough. Wisconsin, too? I think I had Wisconsin like fourth or fifth maybe. Wow.

All right. I like it. Because, you know, they beat Michigan. They beat, not only beat. They swept Michigan and Minnesota. Well, we all had Michigan and Minnesota like, you know, like eighth and eleventh and stuff like that. It's not as impressive to sweep them as it sounds like it is on paper. That's all.

But you can only play the teams they put in front of you in, and they beat them as many times as they possibly could. So big shout-out. The Badgers are really good this year. I don't think they're the number one team in the country, but that's all. That's a different discussion. And then, yeah, so go over there,

E.P.Rinkside.com. I love E.P. is the code. 15 months for the price of 12. You can't go wrong. And then patreon.com. We got to do a bunch of bonus episodes nice and early this month. Normally we'd save stuff for the end of the month, but with Thanksgiving and things, we're going to have to really cram it all in there.

So stay tuned for all that. We'll be getting to you with that information very soon. Thanks for listening. And we'll talk to you next week. Bye bye. Bye bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you'll come.

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