Puck Soup - Conn Smythe or Con Job?

Episode Date: July 7, 2021

The boys discuss the Stanley Cup Final, including the Tampa mayor's jinx attempt; the tragic death of Matiss Kivlenieks; Jonathan Toews's return to the Blackhawks; the Duncan Keith trade rumors; Ron MacLean pooches a Bettman interview; season 2 of "I Think You Should Leave"; a looking back at the worthiness of Conn Smythe winners since the 2005 lockout; and a game show involving lengthy contracts. Sponsored by Manscaped and Manly Bands.   

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Park Sue. I'm Greg Wyshinsky of ESPN coming to you live from Tampa, Florida, where the ravages of Hurricane Elsa are not to really be seen. here as people are jogging with their dogs and it seems pretty okay.

I'm Rick from calicocutpants.com. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic. I didn't get that reference, but I'm pretty sure I know what's from. So cards in the table. We're doing this show after a momentous occasion in Puck Soup Land, which is the release of the second season of I think you should leave. I've seen the first three episodes. Ryan has seen the full run. Twice. Maybe more than once.

Yeah. Sean has not seen them. He is saving them. So we will probably do a more in-depth breakdown of this incredible moment. This moment that is like if you were listening to like Pod Save America and it's the day after the election, you're like, why aren't they talking about the election? I understand. I understand where this show is. in the pantheon of how important this shit is to fuck soup.

This is like the top of the list, maybe. And like, maybe this and Thanksgiving food. I don't know. But like, so like I understand why we all want to talk about it. I will briefly mention that it's great from what I've seen at least. Yeah, it's good. In vague terms, my favorite sketch is the courtroom sketch. If you've seen it, you know it.

Mine might be calicocutpants.com. I have not gotten there yet. I think that's like episode four or five, right? Yeah, good point. But I know the reference because I read some reviews. And I think at the end of the day, my reaction is twofold. One, and it's not a spoiler, Sean. They did a really great job of extending bits over multiple episodes in a way that I didn't expect.

like there's a sketch that references the first sketch of the season, like later in the season. And I'm just like, oh, okay. That's circled back around. And the second thing is that, you know, what a joy in a world of diminishing returns, in a world where almost every sequel is inferior to the original, where we herald the Empire Strikes back because it at least came close to matching the quality of, Star Wars, where he herald the Godfather part two for being probably better than the

godfather. Aliens to alien. Like, we have these very, very small examples of sequels that match up or beat the original Rise of Skywalker and the Last Jedi. You bite your tongue. And so

to have the satisfaction knowing that the second season cleared the bar is like amazing. You agree, Ryan? Yeah, it's a different wavelength. I feel like this season's a little darker, honestly. But, yeah, I thought this was fucking incredible. And I appreciated it more on the second watch than the first.

Yeah, as you know, with most sketch comedy, it reveals itself the more you watch it, like a Terence Malick film. So, there you go. I think you should leave. Everybody should watch the new season. It's great. and there you go. Get some safari flaps on your fedoras. So we are again at the whim of the NHL schedule,

more so the whim of the Montreal Canadiens, winning fucking game four. And pushing this thing back to it. Guy, it's almost the middle of August. Let's fucking, or July, I mean, fuck. Well, forget it. No, no. You had a great joke.

You should be corrected your stuff. It's not even a joke. Let's just get this fucking done. We already had a Stanley Cup final in October. What are we waiting for here? Four games. But hold on. But hold on.

How great was that stat they gave for had been the first player in NHL history? Was it to have a point in every month or some shit? A goal in every month? Yeah. Was it a goal in every month of the? That's fantastic. And if he had scored, I think it was like last June maybe or something like that, he would have, or no, it wasn't even that, it was like March.

If he had scored last March, he would have had them all in like, like, overall 12 months in the course of like 18 months or something like that. That's incredible. But you had to go back because he didn't score in March or whatever the month was. So you had to go back to like March 2019 and you were like this fucking bum. He stinks. I wish Pierre, I wish Pierre would have leaned into that and been like, you know, Doc cadetty. I know Doc's not there. they realize this is the first save ever made in July.

You know, just every time something happens in game one, just declare it's the first thing. It would have made it more likable. Anyways, all right, so it's the day of game five. By the time you hear this, it might all be over. Or Tampa's mayor will have completely fucked her team by predicting that they could lose to Montreal and then come home and win the cup in front of their home fans.

Sean, your thoughts when you heard about this elected official angering the hockey gods? Yeah, not great. But honestly, was she saying anything that a lot of Tampa fans may not have been thinking? I mean, it is. It's a weird situation, right? Like, they won the cup last year, but no fans in the building, no loved ones. ones around. I mean, they did get kind of the parade treatment a little bit when they got home, but really not any of the usual trappings of winning a championship. I'm sure they would

love to win it at home. And that's, look, that's what should happen. This is tonight, game five, this is the game where everybody is like, yeah, this is where Tampa closes it out. Home ice, crowds going crazy. their throats, absolutely. This is it. And I think that's probably what's going to happen. I think the series probably ends tonight. But if it doesn't,

either because, you know, maybe Tampa comes out tight. Maybe it's, you know, whatever. Or maybe Montreal just does one of those Montreal things and has one of those Montreal games. And it's, you're late in the second period and Montreal's up one-nothing and you're like, oh, no, is this really good?

Montreal wins tonight Look out Because now we're into All right This like the Undertaker has sat up And This might go a little bit longer So it's gonna be a pretty fascinating game tonight

I'm really Interested to see how it turns out I suspect it's gonna go the way We all think it is But I mean Anyone who's been listening to me All playoffs knows

When I say it's probably I'm talking like, yeah, 60% chance and then if not, who knows? 40% chance. We go into the weird zone at that point. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Do you think that Montreal can win this series, Ryan? Yeah, I mean, there's a whatever 2% chance that they can win the series,

but they would need everything, absolutely everything to break their way. know, it's funny because I said, I think after it was like, after the first period, and I think it was scoreless, that I was like, ooh, this really feels like the kind of game where they're going to, you know, put 42 shots on net. They're going to hit the post five times and they're not going to win. And that's pretty much what I mean, they didn't put that many shots on goal. And they did score twice, but it was like, yeah, no, they hit the post, I think, three or four times. and lost, and, you know, obviously once they didn't score on that powerplay, you were like, there is absolutely, they don't, you don't get a four-minute powerplay at the end of regulation and the start of overtime and look that fucking bad and then still win the game.

Has there ever been a power play that looked good after the break for intermission? Like, it seems, I've been watching hockey by entire life. I've maybe so I could count on one hand the number of times the team scores on the power play if the power play spans two periods. Yeah. There was a question. Somebody asked the question earlier, might have been like Justin Bourne or somebody like that, was like, does this ever fucking work out? Right. And somebody said, you know, no, like they, you know, whoever, however many years ago went back and looked at the stats and was like, yeah, the odds that you score.

at the top of the following period are extremely low in comparison with you know because even a good power play only works like 22% of the time but apparently the number just drops off a cliff if it's over the course of the two periods so but with that having been said you still expect Tampa to put the fucking puck in the net

on three minutes of power. You kind of do I mean they are like an incredible watching their power the first power play that they had in game four was like fucking poetry. Just like the way the move the puck, the way Kuturoff distributes the puck, the way they have like three or four

different set plays, they try on every power play. It's fucking gorgeous. It's just great. Going across the box hasn't really been working for them that much. Like that guy in the middle of the box. Yeah. That has not been working. I don't know if the lightning sort of innovated that

move, but the team that always used to do that was the Capitals would set up Oshy in the slot as sort of the second option to the OV shot. And it was pretty good to have that sort of instead of, you know, traditionally you would always have the guy kind of screening the goalie, but instead they kind of moved them out into the slot and really fucked around with teams. But, well, I mean, you have to respect the Ovechkin shot a lot more than you do the Stamco shot at this point. What you mean in the sense that Ovechkin gets it on net?

Yeah. Yeah. A little bit. It's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. we'll see how it goes down. But I don't know.

It was, it was, I feel like maybe this would be a different series if Montreal had fucked around with their lines in game three versus like doing what they always do in the playoffs, which is like waiting one game further than they should. Yeah, but the circumstances with Deshaalm coming back, that would have made it a little bit tough, right? I mean, if they lose two under Luke Richardson and then he comes back and it's like, yeah, I'm changing everything.

It looks a little strange. Not that that's a reason not to do it and you're in the Stanley Cup final, but I can kind of get why they may be waited. Well, there's also, excuse me, the whole deal with like, doesn't Douchard just love scratching his really good young players? Yeah.

Just like, oh, yeah. Because then he gets to put them in and then look like a genius, yeah. He looks so, you're like, wow, this guy thought of putting Cole Cawfield in. That's crazy. easy. Yeah. So congratulations to Kokenemi when he comes back tonight and scores the winning goal.

Do you think they give him the Rick bonus? They think they give him the job? Of course they're going to give him the job. He got him to the job. Greg, they're extending Mark Bergevin based on this. They were going to fire him. But then they made it to the cup final and they're going to lose in five games probably. But, you know, they're like instead, he's got it absolutely figured out.

retroactively, every trade, every signing he's ever made, perfect. It's actually all going to work out great. So why wouldn't they say this is the coach, especially because, as we know, they self-limit their coaching opportunity. I don't know. I guess I'm just bitter because, like, I feel like Claude Julia, he's doing this, like, the same shit Claude Julian did right down to, like, scratching young players. Yeah. It's the same fucking playbook. 12% worse.

Right? Like, let's be honest. Yeah, I mean, I guess they will. Like, why not, right? Yeah. I mean... Well, I mean, I have a good reason why not, but they don't want to hear about it. Right. Well, we'll see what happens. We'll see if, you know, as again, you're going to hear this show probably after game five. So you're either going to be like, oh, boy, can't wait to hear what they have to say about game six or all right, good, good thing this whole thing's over and everybody can, party with the cup and trim their playoff beards. Speaking of trimming beards, today's episode of Puck Soup is sponsored by Manscaped.

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Guys? Yeah, what's up? Go ahead? Oh, okay. Just, just check. We're good. We're here. All right. We're going to ease into some, some sad news for a little bit because it's impossible to talk about the week in hockey without talking about the incredibly sad and tragic accidental death of Matisse Kievelinix, a goalie for the Columbus Blue Jackets, and tragically lost his life in a fireworks.

accident this week. It's just one of those stories that just like came out and leaves you shook. It's fucking, fucking 24 years old. Just sad shit. What was your reaction when you heard about this, Sean? Yeah, I mean, obviously it's tragic and awful. And when it comes out of nowhere like that, it's pretty stunning when you first see the reports and then as some of the details have come out, it's just an awful situation all the way around obviously you know not just him and his family but teammates there the coach uh the family it's it's just uh such a bizarre set of circumstances and like you said we we have to we have to talk about it because it's it's one of the biggest stories in the hockey world, but also I'm not even really sure what we can say beyond just that

it's absolutely terrible and just one of those reminders that you never know. You never know what the next day is going to bring. Yeah. What about you, Ryan? Yeah, pretty much all that. It was the first thing I saw when I woke up yesterday morning or yeah, yesterday, right? And yeah, It was stunning. Like, who, you know, who would have ever guessed? And, yeah, I don't know what else there is to say. Like, it's shocking and it's really fucking sad. The idea of, like, you know, he's 24 years old.

He has his whole life and career in front of him. He's getting closer to living the dream that all these guys have had for, you know, their entire lives basically and then it's like yeah, nope, not a, doesn't work out that way sometimes. Like,

just, you know, shocking, you know, you look at all the, the statistics about, oh yeah, well,

you know, fireworks kill and maim this many people. There was the, the NFL player a few years ago whose name I don't remember who, like, had part of his hand blown off

by a firework, if I'm not mistaken. And it's like, Yeah, I mean, this is just, I guess, what can happen to anybody around these, around fireworks. Like, there's all these statistics that, you know, that come out every year. And sometimes, like, a person who is, quote, unquote, a statistic is someone you are aware of more than in the abstract. And, you know. It was really stunning because, like, well, first of all, the stunning part is that it happened.

a house that belongs to his goldendant coach, Mani Legacy, and that it sounds like, you know, Elvis Mers Lickens was there. And like, it's just just even more crushing to think about, like, teammates and coaches and stuff being witnessed to all this stuff. But, you know, like the way the story developed was also really interesting in the sense that, like, when it was first reported, It was reported, I think, by the police that he, like, slipped getting out of a hot tub and fall and hit his head. And then, like, later on, it becomes, no, he was hit in the chest by a firework.

And you're just like, holy shit. That it's just, it's just, it just fucking wrecks you that something like that could happen. But some really lovely things were said. guys like Nick Falino, you know, made statements. And obviously, Yarmokakalainen put out a statement on Twitter of just sort of expressing his grief and talking about, you know, hug your lug ones a little bit tighter and stuff like that. And just, I don't know, it was really, it was really jarring to have to get back in, you know,

wee hockey world after hearing about something like this. Yeah. It's tough stuff. That press release, it was like, I get why. this happened, obviously, but the thing at the end where it was like, yeah, this was his GAA last year. Did you see that at the bottom of that press? No, I didn't. Well, like, from the, from the jackets, was it?

Or from the NHL? Yeah, it was just like, ooh, maybe, maybe edit that. Maybe don't. Yeah, that's tough stuff. Slightly happier news. Jonathan Taves made us return since the last time we did a show. He put out a video, which I understand the timing of it for a lot of people was a little bit hinky, because it was right in the aftermath of, you know, Betman being asked about the Blackhawks sexual assault scandal and, you know, the pressure being built up on the team and local columnist now writing about it.

And then Tavis put out this video. But, you know, everything I've heard is that it's unrelated. but he announced his return to the ice. He plans on playing next year, and he said he kind of let us in on his condition he's been fighting. I'm looking for the name of it in this story that I wrote, and I can't remember the name of it. Oh, chronic immune response syndrome, which was his immune system was reacting to everything that he did, any kind of stress, anything that I would do through the day.

there was just always some kind of stress response. And so that's what it was, the diagnosis of why he felt so drained and lethargic and shitty and why he decided to skip out on this season. But he's apparently ready to rock and roll again for the Blackhawks next year, which is good to see. I like Jonathan Taves a lot. Did he say he had COVID as part of that? Did I read that right? Yeah.

So that was the other interesting thing, too. So he did a sit down with Mark Lazarus with the athletic. And he did a whole discussion with Laz about COVID and contracting it and, you know, dealing with it. And, and also believing that there may be something to what he went through being part of the, you know, long COVID thing that a lot of people have dealt with. But it was interesting that he said he left that out of his initial. announcement that he was back because he didn't want it to distract from from anything. Like he didn't want that to be the headline, he said, was that he had COVID and that maybe this hasn't related to what he went through.

But yeah, you're right. It was sort of, it was sort of weird that that wasn't, I mean, I understand why he's saying it, like, in a way, but in a way it was kind of weird because that very well could be part of this, you know, but. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's a weird situation. I know some people have expressed some skepticism because, you know, the condition he's talking about this chronic immune response.

Some people have said, you know, that's not a thing. And that's so, you know, what else is going on here? And I don't frankly think that matters. I mean, the story here is that he's coming back. And that was no sure thing. And, you know, over the course of this for him being out and, you know, I'm sure everyone's at some point heard rumors about what he might have been dealing with and, you know, some of the stuff, you know, very serious stuff that based on what he's saying had no basis at all in reality. And that's great.

It's the good news is, you know, whatever he's telling us, I'm sure, is an honest reflection of whatever he was hearing from his medical team and be. On that, I don't think the rest of us need to get a complete blow-by-blow report on whatever the process was like. The good news is that whatever he has been dealing with and maybe even is continuing to deal with is something that he at this point feels confident he can come back from. He's going to resume his career. That's the main thing. And that's the, as you say, it's a good news story. and the rest of it, let's not let it overshadow the fact that it's a positive.

Honestly, if he came out and said, I didn't want to have to play through a bummer of a season with a shitty team. I would have been fine with that too. Who cares? That's right. Like, if he, it's just like, you know, if you're not into it, you're not into it. Come back when you are.

Yeah, but I mean, it sounds like it was a lot more than that. Yeah, exactly. Description where it's, you know, but that's also part of it is, you know, this whole like, oh, why is he, he's telling us this thing. And I went into WebMD and I typed it in and I didn't get many. Yeah, well, you know what? This guy's been playing hockey for, oh, God, really? 20 years, this guy's been playing, like, highly competitive hockey.

Like, he might just be worn out. Like, the rest of us can't necessarily comprehend what that does to your body. And it's, yeah. He sort of, he sort of referenced that. Like, he sort of said, you know, like, he didn't realize. how much he had done to his body during that time. Yeah. And you don't, I think I would assume, and obviously I'm guessing here, but I would assume it may even be the sort of thing where you don't even notice it happening as it's happening because we all get one life and he's sitting there going, I guess maybe this is just it.

Maybe you just feel tired and crappy all the time. And then it's only later that he realizes, oh, wait, no, it seems like other people don't feel this way all the time. Maybe I should talk to someone or do something or take some time off and get back. And good for him for doing it because that's, God knows, the hockey player mentality is always, you've got to fight through everything and you just got to just grit your teeth and keep going. And he sounds like did absolutely the right thing by not doing that. Is there a thing on the internet that's both the greatest and worst thing that's ever been invented more than WebEx? Md.

Like, WebMD serves a purpose, which is in a pinch, you could find out what might be ailing you. But also, it's horrible because in a pinch, you can find out what is ailing you. Yeah, right. Everything's like, oh, you, yeah, I mean, it could be the common cold or it could be the black plague. And we just don't know. Right.

And it's like, well, I could have called the doctor this whole time. Why'd I go to this fucking website? Right. I either ate too much garlic or it's pancreatic cancer. Like one of those two things could be happening to me right now. And it's just like, it's rough, especially if you have older parents. It's rough. Gregory, I think I might have rickets.

Oh, no, mom. You probably don't have rickets. Get off of WebMD. Go to a doctor. The other Blackhawks-related news is Duncan Keith, apparently on the trade block, apparently looking to move on to the... Pacific Northwest or parts that close thereof and apparently zeroing in on him based on the amount of chatter being generated by our friends in the Edmonton media the Oilers.

Chatter is a good way to put it. Astro-turfing is a different way. Consent manufacturing. Consent manufacturing is a great term. Oh my God, that's a great term. I love that term. Yeah. They're working overtime up there to make sure everybody knows. Actually, this guy who has been fucking terrible for like four years, he's really good, actually. And besides, it's more about, you know, getting rings in the room and knowing how to win than actually being any good at hockey. So that's just something for you, the Edmonton, like, fan base to think about.

I think there's always like tiers of where you can go with the rings in the room thing. Like, in theory, you'd like somebody in their prime who won a Stanley Cup. Like, that'd be the first tier. The second tier would be, you know, somebody who's like on that Justin Williams tier of being like a really good secondary player that can contribute and do big things for you in the playoffs. Like, that's the next year. And then the third tier is, this guy is just on our fourth line. and if we need to turn to somebody in the locker room at some point during a seven-game series, maybe he can say something interesting.

That's like a Pat Maroon. Tier, yeah. Yes, exactly. Right, exactly. And I feel like Duncan Keith in this level of his life is in the Pat Maroon tier, but they're going to put him as a second pairing defenseman. Right. Yeah, and the problem is he makes $5.5 million a year against the cap, right?

Right. Like, Pat Maroon is not. Exactly. Tampa. He was like, oh, I'll take like the league minimum, basically. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, here's the thing with Duncan Keith. You're right. I mean, we assume if he goes to Edmonton, it's going to be for half the salary, right? Like, do we do we assume that Chicago is going to have to retain to make that happen? I imagine. I mean, I mean, they fundamentally

have to if they're going to be able to, like, resign Adam Larson. and do some of the other things that they're looking to do. So let's say it's half. I mean, we can put aside whether he can still play anywhere near the minutes and the role that they'd be looking to have him play. And put aside what they're going to have to give up to get him. Because I think you can make a good case that at this point in his career, he should be a freebie at this point. Yeah, fourth round. You're taking half his salary off of you.

And, yeah. But I will say this, just to get to Greg's point on the guys with rings, if you're going to, if you're going to, to bring a guy in to that room where you've got Connor McDavid and Leandro Sidel to amazing players but haven't won a ton in the NHL. If you subscribe to this thinking that they have to potentially learn it from others, I do like that putting aside the other concerns, you're bringing in a Duncan Keith and not a Pat Maroon because what's a Pat Maroon going to teach Connor McDavid about being a superstar in the NHL playoffs and being the guy on a Stanley Cup winner and being the guy who's getting the most ice time, the guy whose reputation is going to go up or down

based on what happens in the series, the guy who's in front of the media all the time. There's not a lot of guys in the NHL who are going to come available that have been that level of star. And, you know, Duncan Keith, okay, he wasn't a Connor McDavid. heart trophy runaway guy, but this was a guy who was winning Norris trophies, won the Khan Smyth, a legitimate top 100 of all time superstar in the NHL. I don't mind bringing a guy like that in and being like, you know, maybe Connor and Leon can learn something from somebody who has had success and won the rings with the brightest spotlight

and not just somebody who was a backup goalie or a fourth liner who was like, oh yeah, I seem to remember that, you know, this is, this is what we talked about in the room, and Connick David's sitting there going, dude, you played eight minutes a night. What do you have to teach me? So the thing with Duncan Keith is, obviously, like I said, the last few seasons, I don't know, two, three, maybe even four, he's been, like, actively not, not just not good, but like, he's been actively bad. But with that having been said, that's also because Chicago was like, well, I mean, he's Duncan Keith. We need to play him 24, 25 minutes a night.

And it's like, right, but like you could, like he's 38. This guy is my age. No, I feel like shit all the time physically. Right. And it's like, you could just like dial it down to like even 20 minutes maybe, maybe you get something more out of him, you know? And I, you know, at that point, you're still paying. whatever, 2.75 million if they retain half the salary for a guy who's going to be like your number

five or six defensemen, which is an ideal. But the idea that he has nothing left to contribute, like, I don't know, I can see a world where if they put him in a position where he doesn't have to carry around whoever, whatever, like, bum the Chicago organization has put next to him. I can see where that makes sense.

But with that having been said, I also look at the left side of Edmonton's defense and go, they would 100% put them on the second pair and play him 22 minutes a night. They could do that. I don't know. I know what I mean? Like Darnel nurses, obviously, they're number one left side defensemen. That's fine.

But I don't know that there's a number, that there's a number two there, that you go, yeah, you, like, you can talk Duncan Keith into this, like, I don't know, I don't know, it was fucking William Laggison, like, is he a left side defenseman? Like, oh, yeah, Laggison's going to play ahead of you, Duncan Keith, the guy who has a consmuth and Norris and three Stanley Cops. I think that's a tough sell, and if that's the case, you know, I don't personally do this trade, but that's not to say, I guess, that if they put him in a position, to succeed, he could succeed.

My favorite current hockey conspiracy theory goes a little something like this. The Blackhawks trade Duncan Keith to the Edmonton Oilers for Caleb Jones as a pot sweetener to acquire Seth Jones in a trade from the Blue Jackets. In the sense that he'll want to come there and he'll want to sign there because his brother's there. Love it. Love it. It's the Niederbier playbook.

Yeah. Whoever signs Rob. Worked one time. Yeah. Get Scott. Yeah. And hey, I mean, what NHL brothers don't end up playing together at some point? Right.

Kind of ridiculous. I mean, fucking Luke Hughes has already working the refs to make sure the devil's draft them. Did you see those quotes yesterday? Exactly. Skip the middleman. Why wait a few years for it to happen? Yeah. So it, that seems to be a thing.

I want to play for the devils. They have the best arena and the best fans. I'm like, all right, you could calm down a little bit there. Yeah. Basically, that was him going, please don't draft me Vancouver. Please don't draft me Jim. Yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, that's, I love that. I love that. I don't know where Joe, I mean, smart money seems to be on Jones ending up with the flyers, but I kind of love that, that theory of him ending up with, the Blackhawks as they orchestrated a Caleb Jones trade for Duncan Keith. It makes sense, but yeah, I don't know. I was just looking at the Duncan Keith cap-friendly, and he's on one of those back-diving deals.

So maybe if you're Edmonton, you're sitting there going, you know what, it's two more years, but if he's terrible in year one, maybe he doesn't even come back in year two. I was looking. Do you guys, is he, does he fall under the cap recapture rule? Was he one of those guys? I believe he would, yeah, because. He had to. Yeah, I mean, he's got one of the contracts.

I'm wondering if that's, yeah, I'd want to see that. But because that, if he does want to go from Chicago, and it sounds like they're willing to move him, but that's even almost extra leverage, right? If he's like, yeah, I guess I'll just retire and hit you with some ridiculous cap hit that should never exist because the NHL screwed up its own rule. You know what? I would say that I feel like Chicago had earned it with the whole hosa. That might be true. You know what?

Like, maybe not so much the Canucks because they did it once for like a Hall of Fame goalie. I get it. But like for Chicago and Detroit, I guess to a lesser extent, it was kind of like a fool me once, shame on. That's right. By the way, I got to say, I respect the hell out of Vancouver fans still being furious about that. Like you can't even make passing reference to anything salary cap related without some Canucks fans showing up and being mad about that. And I respect it. And I respect it.

Yeah. Well, exactly. Exactly. Like, you know, some, you can, you say Nikita Kutcher of salary cap and some Kinnukh fan shows up and is like, you know what? You know what's really dumb about the salary cap? And you're like, oh, God, here. I, if we could only figure out a way to get like a cap recapture penalty on Mark

Messier's contract, that would be the, that's the end of it. Like, Vancouver would be like, we don't want to be the NHL. There would be legitimate anarchists coming across the bridge. trying to burn out of the scene. Exactly. I mean, still wearing Trevor Lyndon's

but, you know, yeah, exactly. But yeah, I don't, I don't hate, I don't hate, I don't hate,

the oilers going after Duncan Keith because I do think that rings are important, wouldn't you say, it doesn't, well, I mean,

the other thing is, and I know I just stepped on a nat transition, right? I know I just stepped on a nat transition and, you know, that's fine. But the other,

the other thing to say is, it feels like this is the oil have found some obscure part of the CBA that's like, we have to make one extremely dumb-ass trade or signing every single summer. Look, what do you want us to do? The legal take away our draft picks

if we don't fucking do this. And the local media is just like, this is actually one of the smartest trades that could possibly. Like, I can't believe it keeps fucking happening. And everybody's like, yeah, he's actually doing a great job up there. First it was Cheer Ellie. Now it's Ken Holland.

And it's like, yeah. You don't have to talk yourself into this every summer, guys. Like, I can't fucking believe what's happening again. You know, it truly, it truly was an amazing ad transition. I just want to point that out. It was literally sitting here. It was an attempt at the first ever assisted ad transition. That's why I'm so angry.

I'm just like literally sitting here like fucking steaming. I'm like giving Ryan the finger through the phone. Speaking of the finger, today's episode of Fuck Snoop is sponsored by Manly Vans. I don't think it's the same finger, but I right. I can't fucking believe, Ryan. Ryan almost stepped on a second ant transition in a row. Like, I don't even know what the hat trick could be because we have two ad reads on the show. I'll say that.

Both of them, you know, how was I supposed to see, Sean, the first one ever coming? Yeah, that's true. This is like the first time they ever completed a forward pass. And it was like, you can do that. Greg, doesn't it almost feel like Ryan has taken a vow to break all our ad transitions? Well, Sean, hold on. Everybody cheers. Hooray, you did it again.

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But before we get to that, any thoughts on, Sean, specifically to you, any thoughts on Ron McLean poaching the interview with Betman? Yep. I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to try to squeeze that in. So people down in the States didn't see it every year in the Stanley Cup final. Gary Batman shows up to do an interview with Ron McLean. They have famously at times been contentious, not so much recently. He did the interview this week on Monday's game and did not ask about the Blackhawks situation with the abuse scandal, even though that is an ongoing story, even though

that was asked about multiple times during Bettman's press conference, Ron McLean did not even bring it up during, during Batman's appearance. And that led immediately to a lot of speculation. Obviously, Sportsnet is a rights holder that maybe they were told not to ask about it or that there was some sort of pressure put on Ron McLean. He says no. There were multiple media reached out to him, and he basically said that he chose not to ask the question because he felt like the NHL had addressed it as much as they were going to

and that he was just going to get a non-answer from Betman, which he almost certainly would have, but it still has to be asked. I have a lot of time for Ron McLean. I've grown up watching Ron McLean. I think he, like anyone who's been on TV long enough, he comes in for a certain amount of crap that maybe he doesn't deserve. And also some that he probably does. I like Ron McLean a lot.

There's no excuse for this one. He screwed up. There is absolutely no way you can have Gary Bettman on live TV and not ask him about the biggest ongoing behind-the-scenes story in all of hockey right now. Just a really inexcusable miss by a guy who should have known much, much better. Did you watch the interview, Ryan? I did not watch the interview.

I feel like I get what goes on here, where, you know, he's like, oh, you think the refs and Department of Player Safety, you think they do a great job, right, Gary? And it's like, that's right, I do, Ron. But see, the thing is, it's usually. usually not that. No, I know.

Yeah. One of the guys that will actually, that's why it gets awkward sometimes, because Gary Betman really doesn't like being pushed on anything and usually isn't.

And McLean was, has sometimes been one of the guys who do that. I think, I think McLean, McLean was at his best when it was labor issues. Like he would sit down

with Betman and there would be like, you know, the impending doom of a work stoppage. And he'd fucking, get the Wolverine Clause out, you know, on, on Batman when it came to holding him accountable for those types of things. And I was, Sean's right. Like, for those who maybe don't have the context, like, go go on YouTube and find yourself some Ron McLean, Gary Betman interviews where they were sitting, they would sit shoulder to shoulder in that little room, right? And then like,

and it would be contentious and wonderful. And McLean was one of the few guys to get. grabbing them and stuff. Like, if you like seeing Gary Betman uncomfortable, those are, I mean, there's definitely some awkwardness to them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like Gary Bettman, this idea that Betman is this polished PR guy, no, but Betman has a polished PR answer for everything, but if you push back on him, he will often crumble pretty quickly, and McLean managed to get that to happen. I mean, to the point where there was a lot of suggestion when McLean was removed as host

of Hockey Night Canada for a few years, that that may have come at the NHL's urging, that did Gary Betman knife this guy because he was tired of being made to look bad? It was a whole thing. So I don't know. Like I saw somebody on the Monday before the interview saying, like on Twitter saying, oh, you know, McLean better ask him about the Blackhawks. And I came this close to replying to them going, don't even worry about it. There is no chance that Ron McLean is going to not bring this up.

Now, I'm not expecting that Ron McLean was going to uncover some huge angle and get Gary Betten. Yeah, big bullet and board rolls out. Yeah. But at some point, like, even just getting him to give the same BS answer, get him on the record doing it. And it was just, and it was one of those things where, you know, Ron McLean, part of his schick is he does these little kind of foxy as sides and starts talking about random stuff. And that's when he's good, that's part of the package and part of the appeal. But when you've got a limited time, and they also shorten the interview this year, it was only like five or six minutes, when you have limited time and you're not asking the big question and you're rambling on about some nonsense. Oh, yeah.

That's just infuriating to people because you can't even say we ran out of time. There was time. He just, I actually take him at his word that he just chose not to do it. And his judgment, he just, at least in the moment, chose not to. But it was the wrong choice. And there's just, there's no defending it. Like three things on that real quick. One, if your justification for not asking about it is that he expected

Batman to give a non-answer, then don't have an interview at all because you're just going to get non-answers on everything. I mean, like, you know this by now. The second thing is, I agree with Sean. Like, the most infuriating thing about. this interview was that it was so brief and a good portion of the interview was like him talking about the late Jim Gregory and holding up like a picture or Jim like it was just like make make the good choice here like don't go down the Canadian Folksey Road for half your interview I it fucking infuriated me

and then the third thing is that like it's your job to come up with with new questions about a controversial situation like yeah they were asked about it five times during the state of the the NHL address and they, you know, dodge the questions as deftly as they could. But there's other, I mean, there's other unanswered questions. I mean, the idea that a team had this happen and the NHL wasn't really made aware of it at the time, according to their timeline, is like a huge fucking deal, you know, if we're to believe their story of the events. So, I don't know, I don't, I don't buy the whole idea of like, oh, this is well-trodden territory. We're not going to get anything out of it because it's your job to get more out of it.

you're Ron McLean. Yeah. I will say, though, the thing that Ken Campbell wrote about it, like people were mad at Ken for saying it because he mostly defended Ron McLean, which he shouldn't have done. But the question of, oh, yeah, that's something a journalist would do. Do you think Ron McLean's a journalist? And it's like, at this point, not really. You know, like, I think that's a pretty good point that, like, in his role now, he, he has. wasn't been that guy, like the guy who's going to put the screws to Gary Betman for a while now. And like this has been, I don't think anybody, I don't think this is telling tales out of school. This has been a tough postseason for him.

There have been a number of Ron McLean-related controversies. And, you know, I don't get to watch him every single night because I'm in the U.S., so maybe he's doing a mostly great job and I'm only seeing the bad stuff. but seems like there's been a lot of bad stuff this year. And what's, I don't know what goes on with that. Like that, you know, I have no idea why that would be the case or why it wouldn't be. But it seems like it keeps coming up and isn't that interesting. Ryan, should we talk about your newfound love of Ken Campbell, aka Hockey's Bullworth?

He turned it on, man. Like the hockey news let him go and he's like, I'm coming out of the corner like fucking Mike Tyson in 1982. He's just throwing fucking haymakers. It rocks. It's cool. Again, people got mad at him for saying this part. And the initial tweets, again, weren't good, but the broader explanation he actually

wrote about is like, damn, has King Campbell kicked ass this whole time? And he just had like the gloves on? Is that what happened? I mean, yeah. Hey, look, sometimes, hey, he's a bit of a gamer. Sometimes you just have to say, fuck it, you know, and go about your business. Yeah, I've, as people who've listened to this podcast for a long time know, I am always somebody

who has time for Ken Campbell. I'm happy that Ken Campbell exists. I'm happy that he asks weird questions and has very odd takes. I think there's always room in hockey discourse for people like Ken who believe their own gimmick versus say like Steve Simmons, who is just disingenuous and, you know, traffics and personal attacks and things like that. I think there's a group of writers that people seem to like group together as being like, these are the problems with hockey writing. And Kenny's always in there and Steve Simmons is always in there. And I think

there's a difference between what like Ken Campbell does versus someone like Simmons. And I'll, I'll always stand for Ken Campbell. I think he's, he's an odd ball, but he's our odd ball. And also, even though it may not come across, Ken's in on the joke far more often than he's not. And I'm not sure the same can be said about some of the others. Right, right. All right. I wanted to go through these Khan-Smith winners since the 05 lockout.

And we're going to play a little game here, boys, called Khan-Smith or Khan Job. We are going to reassess the MVP's. I'm going to give you who won the cons smith. I'm going to give you who I think the runner up was. You tell me if we got it right. Cam Ward 2006 for Carolina. 927 percentage, 2.14 goals against. Could have been Corey Stillman, 26 points to 25 games, two overtime game winners, but Cam Ward's probably your consmithe and not a con job, correct? Yeah, I would think so. I would say so, yeah. I'm good with that one. What if we threw in Pronger and a losing effort.

When you get into losing efforts, it feels like it should either be the goalie or nobody. And, you know, like, with that, I think if you're going to say anybody in a losing effort, it should probably be Dwayne Rollison because he's the one that got hurt in game one of the cup final, and then they completely shit the bed after that. An excellent point. An excellent point. But, yeah, of course, Chris Bronger dragging many a bad, team, not even bad necessarily, but many an okay team kicking and screaming to a cup final.

That was kind of like the hallmark of the Middle A 2000s. I always had time for that sort of like subversive MVP argument that the true MVP should be the player whose absence was felt the hardest by his team. And that, you know, by plucking him out of the lineup, how could you not say he's not the most valuable player? So Mitch Marner is the Kahn Smythe winner this year. here's the problem. He didn't show up, but he was there. His absence. No, that's a good point.

Yep. Least and most valuable player. Scott Niedermeyer for the Ducks in 2007, it would have been actually really interesting if Ottawa had won that series who they would have gone with for Ottawa, because all three of those guys in that line, the Spets of Heatley-Alpherson line, were like great. Yeah.

And it would have been interesting to see which one they went with. But, you know, Iatermire was good. He skated a bunch. I think you get Slough at 17 and 21 three game winning goals. Jiggy was 922, 197, but the 197 is like a team stat. They probably got it right,

but the Ducks were one of those teams that was sort of a nebulous, nobody's really like the standout consmite guy teams. Well, it's him and Tongar, right? Like, that's, pick one of them, that's the guy, because they both played half of the game. So is it possible Niedemeyer one because of his beard? Because that salt

And pepper bushy beard that he had was one of the more impressive Playoff Beards that can be. Yeah, I definitely think it has to do with old man Niedermeyer, did it again. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. Right, right. Yeah.

2008, Detroit Red Wings, Hendrik Zetterberg, 27 points in 22 games. I did not remember him being that good offensively in that run for them. The alternative would be your old boy, Chris Ozgood, Ryan. 930 say percentage 1.55 goals against the average. You would have to say he earned it, right? Like, yeah, again, like, it's a bit of a Nicklidstrom thing, but... So you would have given it to Ozgood?

I can see an argument for it, for sure. Oh, I like it. Sean, is Chris Osgood a Hall of Famer if he has a cons might to his credit? Nobody got a better claim than... than he might otherwise have. If you traveled back in time to 2008 and said that Mark Andre Fleury has a better chance of being in the Hall of Fame and the Krasazgid,

what would young Sean's reaction have been? I don't think I would have been that. Like, Mark Andre Fleury would have been, what, like 20-2 or something back then? Like, you would have said, okay, yeah, it could go in a few, it had been a number one overall pick. Look, Chris Osgood's a good,

was a good goaltender and was, exactly the sort of good enough to win the cup sort of goalie that the Red Wings needed. I get why Detroit fans love the guy. He's not a Hall of Famer, but that doesn't mean you can't think he was a great piece of those teams. I reclaim my time. If I had traveled back to after the Flyers Penguin series and asked you if Marc Andre Florey will be a Hall of Famer, what would your reaction have been? Yeah, that would have been a little bit. In what? You know, what League would have been my answer. Malkin in 2009, obviously a worthy consmithe winner.

I mean, 1.5 points per game in that run for them. Insane. Sid had 31 and 24, but Malkin was an easy call for the consmithe. Yeah, the other thing to say, too, is like they won the cup that year, despite Mark Andre Fleury, I believe having a sub-900 save percentage in the playoffs. Wow. If I'm like, because there's one year he was really good and there's one year he was really bad and they had a lot of success anyway and I'm 99% sure. I guess I could just look it up.

I have fucking hockey reference. I mean, you could. I mean, you do have the benefit of the internet. Jonathan Taves in 2010 at 29 goals, oh, sorry, 29 points rather, not 29 goals, 29 points in 22 games. This was another one where the other pronger year of like he didn't have a good final so that kind of like, wiped him away for Kahn Smythe, but he was insane for them the rest of the way with 18 points in 23 games as a defenseman and skated over 29 minutes a night and put the flyers on his fucking back. Yeah, like I said, dragged a perfectly okay team kicking and screaming to a cup final where they lost in six games and like everybody was like, yeah, that makes sense. That's fine. Who cares? Yeah. And the other thing was didn't Taves also have a not very good final?

at least as far as his numbers. I feel like he had, it was one of these where he had run away with it by midway through the third round. And everyone's like, if Chicago wins, it's definitely going to be Taves. And then it was. I will forever say con job on this one. I think he should have gone to Pronger. I think he had the most impressive playoff of anybody. And the Flyers wouldn't have been anywhere near the cup.

But it's got, but I mean, it is, you're right. If this is just MVP of the playoffs. There's probably a lot of scenarios where guys on losing teams should get it. There may even be some scenarios where guys on teams that went out in the third round should get it. But that's almost never what it is. It almost always goes to someone on the winning team unless it's just a ridiculously overpowered run on an otherwise bad team. And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't even see it again as far as. It just frustrates me to see, having seen a goalie from Anaheim have three good rounds and then a bad round when the consmite, but the same courtesy as an extended to Pronger.

By the way, Flurry when they won the cup, 9.08. Okay, yeah, that's not good. The year before he was 9.33. Yeah, 9.08's not good. Yeah. At the time, it was probably fine, but. Tim Thomas is one of only two names on here where I don't have an alternative. I think I don't know if there's anybody else you could even put up to say that below, you know,

would have beaten Thomas for the cons might. He was going to win even if Vancouver won game seven. Yep. That was, that was even, that's the only time I've ever gone into a game seven or at the end of a series and been like, a guy on the losing team is going to win even if his team loses. And obviously that, as soon as they won, it was. the most, probably the most obvious pick ever. I'd be stunned if it wasn't unanimous. Yeah. Jonathan Quick, 2012, 946 save percentage.

Yeah, I think that's going to work for you. Yeah. Kopitar had 20 and 20 that postseason, but like, Quick, quick was, you know, the clear choice, I think, on that one. Man, he is, he's one of the most complicated players, I think, that we've ever covered in the sense of like when he was at the top of his game I mean it was Hoshik level like he was it's hard it's hard to describe to newer fans like how good Jonathan Quick was in his in his apex because of how mediocre he became I mean so that's the thing right is like you you kind of have to think about early in his career like the the Daryl Sutter like first first run Kings um

Um, they, the only reason they made the playoffs as the eighth seed that year was because Jonathan Tate, or Jonathan Tate, Jonathan, Tate, Jonathan, uh, stood on his head that entire regular season. They won so many two one, three two games. Um, that like, to barely squeak into the playoffs. And then, you know, they were, they were, like, the first real, like, coursey, uh, you know, oh, anybody can make it as an eight seed. and it's like, yeah, but like they were an eight seed with like a 55% expected goal. Not expected goals wasn't even really a stat then. But like, you know, their underlying numbers were phenomenal and all these people were like, oh, see, it just goes to show any eight seed can do it. And it's like, yeah, any eight seed can do it.

Right. When they're taking like 56% of the shots on goal. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And, and yeah, quick, like I said, Quicks the only reason that team made the fucking playoffs. And then, yeah, 940 plus in the postseason, who else is it going to be? You know? Pretty good.

Pretty good. Patrick Kane won in 2013. This was the year where I felt like Cory Crawford could have won it. But if you remember that was also the year where Cory Crawford, there was the whole thing about like, oh, what's wrong with Cory Crawford's glove hand kind of shit in that series against the Bruins? I remember talking to someone who had. a con smythe vote that year and they were like, I don't know who I should pick. And I think it was more between TAVs and Hosa maybe or Aitaine and Hosa than Corey Crawford even getting that like initial consideration.

It wouldn't have been TAVs because that was the playoff correctly for Rangshan where Brent Seabrook had to give Jonathan Taves the pep talk. Yeah. Because he wasn't playing well. You can't win the cons smith if you need a pep talk. Yeah. Well, whoever it was. It was, there was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was also the Brian Bickle year.

That was the year that Brian Bickle was right out of his mind. And if you, but no, I think, I think part of what happened was, you know, in 2010, we talked about how Taves had run away with it, but then hadn't been great in the final. And, and Patrick Cain had been very good in the final and scored the overtime winner. And I think a lot of people were sort of second guessing that award and going, oh, maybe it should have been Cain. and then you get to 2013 and it's like, okay, here's our make-good on the guy who maybe should have got it a few years ago. We can give it to him now. He was really good in that. Yeah, he was.

Sure. Yeah. Like, it wasn't like, you know, fucking if Chris was good at whatever, you know, like he earned it. Oh, those halcyon days when the Blackhawks were a model franchise and not complete trash. Justin Williams wins in 2014 for being Mr. Game 7. Anjitoucet that year had 26 and 26 and skated over 21 minutes a night. It should have been Copatar. It probably should have been Copatar.

But Williams had that unstoppable Mr. Clutch narrative. Right, yeah. The voters just decided after whatever, like the second Game 7 winner, and everybody was like, yeah, okay, whatever. If he does it again, that's... It's fine. Right. And that was also the year that Drew Dowdy was playing like 30 minutes a night.

Yep. Way more than anyone else. He was the other one that I remember. It was a three-person race because that was my first year covering the final. And I remember like sitting at a table with like all the dudes who had votes and hearing them talk about it. And I was like, oh, yeah, it's coming down to these three guys. And I think it was probably very close. You texted Eklund to let him know that you just heard a scoop.

Exactly. Correct. Yeah. Was Eklund even? No, I don't think he was even doing anything in 2014. Who cares? Speaking of skating a lot, Duncan Keith won the consmice for skating a lot the following season. That was the year when he was like skating ridiculous, like over 30 minutes a night or some such.

Patrick Kane, 23 points in 23. games, three game winning goals. Crawford was 924 and 2.31, rather. You know, that's fine. Yeah, this really felt like they were trying to round out the trio. Nobody gets... Yes, exactly. Which I kind of like, though. That is cool that you look back. But no, I mean, when your defenseman who's playing 30 plus minutes is two points off of the scoring lead, yeah, I have no problem with it. Give it to that guy for sure. Mm-hmm. they had no problem

giving it to the same guy twice, though, in the next couple years. Sidney Crosby pulls the Mario Lemieux winning in 2016 and 2017. 2017, Malkin had more points, but Sid played really well, and I remember watching that series and being like, logically,

you can give it to Sid for all the things that he did in that series, but there's no fucking way Phil Kessel shouldn't have won the cons might in 2016. 2016, that's the big miss. It should have been Phil Kessel. But A lot of people in the media

Don't like Phil Kessel So it's I mean that's that's it You put the same numbers Same performance swap the names I don't think there's any question Who's gonna win that year So it's It was so frustrating because like

The HPK line was just So valuable to that team Yeah they were they were the line Everybody talked about all gear To the point where they got like Sean Michaels To go to a fucking game To show up Yes

And it's, you know, it was, it's like Phil Kessel, this is Sidney Crosby, but he's not Nick Benino either. Like this is, they went out and made a big trade in the offseason, bring this guy in to be the final piece, and he does exactly that. Like the storyline was there, everything was there. But sometimes Phil Kessel is awkward and weird around the media and doesn't make good eye contact. Yeah. And that's, that's the other thing too, right? It's like, he didn't play on a line with Sidney Crosby. He dragged fucking Nick Bonino up and down.

the ice and scored all these goals. Like, come on. Speaking of HBK, I came across an old YouTube clip of WWF wrestlers on Family Feud when Ray Combs was hosting. Okay. And it was Faces versus Heels. The captain of the face team was Randy Savage. And the captain of the Heel team was Sean Michaels.

And it's a great clip. I'll share it with you guys later. But the thing I loved about it, just as a great example, example of Sean Michael's unbelievable ego. Ray Combs, the host, he's got, he's got the Intercontinental Belt in front of him. And Ray Combs, the host walks over and he's like, hey, what do we got here? Bell, what is say here? Inner, inner continental.

And then Shaw Michaels is like, it says heavyweight champ. And I'm just like, oh, you dickhead. You don't have the, you're not the heavyweight champ. You're the fucking I-C title guy trying to put yourself over. Good for him. Yeah, he's Sean Michaels, right? Oh, live the gimmick. Speaking of wrestling,

I, Ruby was away this weekend, on some, getting some beach time with her girls. So I dove headlong into Dark Side of the Ring season two,

which I hadn't really watched. Yeah, have you seen Dark Side of the Ring, Sean? I've never sat and watched a full episode, but I have seen bits and pieces. I would highly recommend for the sheer insanity of it. Because admittedly, I did not know many of these stories. The episode on New Jack

from ECW is fucking bonkers. It's like, it's one of those, it's one of those things where you watch it and you're like, I feel like I've just seen a movie and how is there not a movie about this already? Like his life is, is that insane. Like the shit he pulled and it's kind of like the anti-last dance where New Jack would take something per personally and then respond by tasering a guy until he's paralyzed and then throwing him off a scaffold during a match. Yeah. Like, it's fucking bonkers. It's so good.

I recently discovered that it's all on Hulu and I've been slow. Yeah, it's on Hulu. I'm part of the way through season one. But, yeah. Yeah, the episodes I've seen so far have been really fucking good. It's a really well done show. And the New Jack episode is fantastic. and while difficult to watch the two-parter on Benoit was was really, really good too,

especially because it kind of gets into the hastily assembled posthumous raw that they did and how everybody now completely regrets going on camera and, you know, lauding the life of Chris Benoit without having had all the facts come out yet. Yeah, except for who was it, was it Regal who went on? Yeah, Regal was the only guy. This interview made it very clear in hindsight, not at the time, in hindsight that he had already figured out what was going on. Yeah, and Jericho speaks to that in the piece.

He's just like, I was watching at home, and I saw Regals and like alarm bells are going off as far as this guy having lived in the same town as Benoit, not putting him over like everybody else was. So really good stuff. If you're a wrestling fan interested in sort of the backstory of things and the dark underbelly of sports entertainment or a dark side of the ring, I mean, you probably already know it, but it's great. And the new Jack episode is fucking incredible.

Alex Ovechkin, 2018, wins the cons with. Cousie had 32 points in 24 games that year. But it was Ovechkin's year. The only other guy I think probably could have won was Holtby. 922, 216. Yep. Took over the team in the first round after Grubeauer crapped out. Right.

And I think that was probably why he didn't. Well, I mean, you know, also Ovechkin is. the greatest goal score of all time. But, you know, I think the reason he didn't win is they didn't even want him to play for them in the playoffs. And Grubaher put their hand. Because he had been bad that year. He'd been, like, actively quite bad. And so...

He didn't start against Columbus, right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it was Grubauer, yeah. But then Gruberauer shit the bed, and here comes Brayden Holby playing, like, you know, what we think of. of Brayton Holby as being. And, oh, yeah, no, it turns out this guy is really fucking good still. And then immediately kind of reverted back to, maybe that's not true. Maybe he had another new here, but then, not so much.

Like, he was definitely nearing the end of the road. Let's put it that way. I think as the giant fuck you to the establishment that was Ovechkin finally getting his cup and, you know, him also getting the cons might had to complete the fuck you. Like, it had to be that way. Yeah, sure. Right. And, yeah.

Let's not act like you didn't earn it. You scored a bunch of goals. He fucking. Oh, he was insanely good. Yeah. Yeah. The only other one I didn't have an alternative for was Ryan O'Reilly because, like, at the end of the day, Bittington was great for them. But O'Reilly's postseason was incredible for them.

Yeah. And, you know, that, again, that was kind of like, oh, yeah, maybe we should have given him the MVP, too. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, he probably should have won the heart that year. I think Bennington gets a couple of bonus points for being a rookie and playing, I mean, winning a game seven in Boston for the Cup is incredible. It's an incredible achievement. You can never take that away from Bennington, but I just feel like overall O'Reilly was the best player on that team and the heart and soul of that team in some ways too.

Yeah, the only other guy, I guess you would say is maybe Petrangelo or Pareko, right? Like the, you know, because again, like much like the, the, uh, the ducks with where it was like, oh, yeah, we have two great defensemen and they never come off the ice. Like, it was kind of like, it felt like that. Do you mean Ox Petrangelo of the National Hockey League? The very same. I wonder, are those his real kids in that commercial or did they like fly in some? Come on. They have to be his real kids and his real wife.

Like, why else would you do the commercial? And I mean, I don't know. They're not Marty Rodeaer's kids in that. enterprise commercial. It's never occurred to me that that wouldn't be his wife and his kids, but I mean, I just assumed it. Sean, do you have any idea what we're talking about? No, not at all. There's a commercial where he's, hi, I'm Alex Petrangelo of the National Hockey League.

Like, he doesn't say the Vegas Golden Knights or any of that shit. And he's just like driving his kids around, oh, when we go to the rink or on vacation, we have this car, whatever the fuck. No, no, no, the line is we're not just the hockey. family, we're a Honda family. That's right. It's what he says. Yeah. And it's a whole thing where like they never show him in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a

night's uniform. Um, they just like, show him, him skating, but like, just his skates. His kid is watching some kind of hockey thing on an iPad, but it's like, yeah, like it's a generic hockey cartoon. So the, the, the, the common theory is that this commercial was filmed before he signed with Vegas, which doesn't really make sense because it feels like they're driving around Vegas. Right.

because it looks like the desert. They're definitely in the desert, for sure. Yeah, right. But he goes, I'm Alex Petrangelo of the National Hockey League, and it's become like a meme here in the States because of how fucking awkward it is that there's no mention of the team he plays for in the commercial. But yeah, that's what's going on down here with commercials. What's your big commercial in Canada for the Cup playoffs?

Well, I mean, we were drowning in the Tim Hortons at the infamous Shea Weber first ballot Hall of Fame. But that doesn't seem to be showing up as much. I think after me and Gentilly roasted it, they just, somebody in Tim Horton's corporate headquarter pulled it.

I feel like we are starting to get a new batch of commercials down here as well. I can't remember, but there was one extremely fucking annoying one that came on the other night. And I was like, yeah, if I had had to watch this the whole fucking playoff, I might have killed myself. Like, whatever it was, I don't even remember what it was now, but I was like, oh, this is really fucking bad.

My favorite one was the bubble hockey one they did for Dunkin' Donuts, where it was like T.J. Yoshi and I think Pastronach. Yeah, bubble hockey players. Plus the puck's in the part of the ring where you can get to. Oh, okay. Get it. I love, because I, that's classic bubble hockey, man, to not be able to get the puck in the little corner. You know, I get the conceit, but I've also seen the commercial 600 times now. It's like, oh, right, because the thing, yeah. Fair enough. Um, Victor Hadbin wins last year. That seemed right, but Braden Point was also really, really good, uh, 33 points and 23 games, but Hadbin was fucking incredible.

And that brings us to now. I mean, we didn't really talk about it in the first segment. What are your thoughts for Khan Smith if, if everything goes the way that we believe it does in game five? Yeah, it feels like it's down to Vasilewski and Kutra of a point that with the goal, scoring streak, kind of in the rearview mirror now, I think he'd have to do something pretty crazy in the final game or two or three to... And Price, I think the start of the series, the first four games,

takes Price out of the running as a losing goalie. Obviously, Montreal wins. Price is going to win. But I think if it's Tampa, I think it's down to two. Yeah. The other thing to say is I think this last game, will kind of have an impact.

If it's 5 to 3 and Kutjav has a couple of points, I think they give it to Kutrov. If it's 2 to 1 and Vasselovsky makes 32 saves or whatever, I think they give it to Vasilevsky. Like, I just think giving up three goals and not winning in Montreal, like that makes it a bit of a tougher sell. I know this is like... I know, yeah, he wasn't.

And I know this is, like, difficult to quantify for, for, and maybe not fair for Kuturov because one is a goalie and one is a winger. But, like, I definitely think that Vasselesky had a hand in more victories than Kuturoff did. Sure. Which again, I know, goalies, whatever. But Kuthorov's numbers, like, I looked it up the other day. I think if you go, based on, like, how many games, like, 20-some-odd games, like, his points per game average is going to go down is like one of the top ten best ever in the playoffs. Yeah, and the other thing to say is that includes a game where he only played 40 seconds

or whatever it was. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So like he's just, look, I'm not saying he hasn't been fucking unbelievable, but like they maybe didn't have it a little bit early on and Vasilevsky got them through that, you know? Yeah, yeah. I'll put it this way.

I think it's going to be Vasilevsky. I don't think there's a bad choice between those. We've mentioned this before, I think maybe, but I'll reiterate it. He would be Jan Ruda. Now, listen, do you think there's a chance the voters don't give it to Kutchev because of the shenanigans? I have thought about that, yeah. I don't know that that's really his fault, but I can see them not wanting to reward that.

They shouldn't. They shouldn't. That's not their role to decide what. the rules should be. There's a lot of they shouldn't with awards voting. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know.

But it's not, I mean, there's two layers of it. Like, first of all, the rules are what they are. And second of all, Nikita Kucherov didn't do it.

If you think rules were compromised or something, be mad at Julian Breisbaugh. Don't be mad at Nick Kutche. And that's, and that's certainly why Breisbaugh didn't win GM of the year. Oh, yeah, fuck that.

Yeah, could be. I mean, Joe Sackick should have won GM of the year. Well, sure, but you know, you get into a, you get into the second round. Because that's when they vote on it, right? Or is it the conference final? No, it's a second round. Okay. But, you know, Joe Sackick isn't Lou La Mavrillo.

No, who, I mean, who is? Hey, I love Lou. But, you know, when you help design the financial system in the league, tend to get some respect from the people in the league. Go figure. All right. Did you have a game show, Sean, you wanted to do? I do.

I have the game show. Oh, Ryan does. Oh, my goodness. Well, that's exciting. We mentioned a bunch of the people involved in this game show earlier in the podcast. But I was inspired this week by the Minnesota Wilds signed Joel Ericksonek to an eight-year deal that's like a shade over $5 million. Like a good contract, you know, he's a good. player.

And they were like, this is the first eight-year max contract we've ever signed as the minute. And it's like, oh, are there maybe two guys on your team that have longer contracts? Yeah. Than that? Like notably longer. And so I went and looked it up. And there are 20 contracts in the history of the NHL that are longer than eight years.

Or at least the modern history. Like the cap era. one of them was signed before the cap era but and so I have put together the details of all these contracts and I'm just going to ask Greg and Sean little trivia questions about these contracts

these elephant tying contracts okay they're huge how do we win the game you get you get let's say five right out of 20 there are 20 total there's 20 questions Wow.

Well, there could. I mean, I'm saying there are 20 total contract. Oh, first one to five. Yeah. First one to five. Okay. So. Thank you for not lamb-baseding me for asking a simple question about the game's rules.

Well, this is a brand new game. If you continue to ask questions about it, again. When you say contract, did they have to be signed or? Yeah, that's right. Who goes first? Can't just change the rules because you don't like how I'm doing it. That's my one reference that I can do. That's the only one.

I've got. I'll go first. Sean. Yes. Ely Colchuk signed his 15-year contract with the New Jersey Devils. It got terminated famously. What age would he be when that contract ended if it had continued? I know it would have been over 40. It was some stupid, like, 43?

you know what I I didn't I'll give it to you because it's 42 but I was just kind of looking for over 40 yeah yeah no it was like very yeah very very implausible age let's put it that way all right Greg we'll do this we'll do it this way from now on before or after greater or less than that kind of thing would Rick DiPiotro's 15 year contract have expired before or after 2020. After, I think. Yeah, it expires this summer. Our own Bobby Vinae. Yeah. It's fucking unbelievable. All right, Sean, this one is not a greater or less than.

Which team signed Shea Weber to his still ongoing 14-year contract? I mean, that was the flyer's offer sheet that was matched by Nashville. That's correct. So I don't know who technically signed that. But, yeah, they planned the flyers. I have written down as Philly. I guess I would have accepted Nashville, but. I think Nashville is the real answer.

Yeah. But certainly the flyers crafted that contract. Yes, and Nashville just matched it, as is they're right. Okay. We brought it up earlier. Greg, Ryan Souter, how long is Ryan Suter's contract? Oh, they both signed. They both signed for the same term.

Was it 12 years? Well, I was going to say, is it greater or lesser than 12 years? Oh. Then it's, God, did they go 11 or they go 13? It's greater. Yeah, it's 13, that's right. Right. All right, Sean, so it looks like it's 2 to 2 right now.

Sean, Zach Perice, older or younger than 25 when he signed that deal? Um, he was a U.S. FAA, so I think he would have had to have been older. Yeah, he was 26. That's right. I'm not doing a good job. You're getting too many. No, those are, that's a good, that's a, hey, listen, that's a good context clue. Good job about out of you for that. Um, yeah, uh, Duncan Keith, uh, when he, when he, when he signed that deal, uh, his, um, his, his, his, his, his, his A.A.V. More or less. How many teeth did he, how many teeth did he have when he signed that deal?

More or less than 5.5. Fuck, I just wrote this. I think it's less. It's more. It's 5.5. Ah, shit. Seven, four, whatever. I knew, I couldn't remember if it was 5.3 or something.

Oh, well. Okay, Sean is in the driver's seat now. It's Sidney Crosby's contract. Does it end before or after 2026? I will say it was a 12-year deal when he signed it. Yeah. So that's what I'm saying. A 12-year deal, and I don't remember when he signed it, but it must have been before the 2013 CBA. So it has to end before 2020.

2025. It's still fucking about four years left. It's crazy. Okay, Greg, Alex Ovechkin, when he signed his 13-year contract, was he older or younger than 23? He was, was he now, like 30? I think he was, I think he was younger. Yeah, he was 22 years old, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

All right. Sean, this is for the win, I believe. Exciting. Which team signed Mike Richards to his 12-year deal that famously got termed. dominated by the Los Angeles Kings. That was the Flyers when they signed him and Carter and then

trade at them both like a year later. Yep, that's right. The Philadelphia Flyers did it. Once again, when in doubt, if somebody says what team signed this ridiculous just go flyers. Yeah, they have four of the guys on this greater than

eight-year contract list. They also have Breeze Glove, as you mentioned Jeff Carter, and both Weber and Mike Richards. I can't believe that so many of them are, like, still ongoing. Only one, two, three, four, five, six of them have expired to this date or to this point. Marion Hose is still technically under contract. Henrik Zetterberg, Alex Ovechkin, his just ended, D.P.H.R. So.

Yeah. But even after this, there's still. 10 guys next season who are on these deals. Fucking crazy. Luckily, Dry Island had a good airport for the fires. You know what I'd love to know is like how many of those contracts that are still active is it the same GM? Like I wonder if it's any of them. If any GM who signed one of these deals and took the nice low cap hit is still dealing with it.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you're right. that would be. Well, and technically poyle, if you want to say that he gets the credit for the Weber contract. That's true. Yep. But yeah, otherwise, nobody, I don't think. I'm going down the list here.

Yeah. Well, Boeman again with Hosa as well. Mike Milbury might think he's still GM with the Islanders. It's possible. It's true. Like GM Emeritus. All right. Well, that's a great puck soup.

All things is considered. I mean, you know, the schedule did not favorably give us a chance to break down the cup final. But we'll do it next time. In theory, maybe they'll keep playing until August. Who knows? I'm Greg Wishinsky, ESPN. You could read my stuff on ESPN. If the lightning win, I'll have a huge column on it, and you can read it.

And that's what's going on with me. I'd sign up for elite prospects. We just put out our, again, I didn't have anything to do with it, but we just put out our draft guide, like, well over a thousand pages, like in-depth shit on every conceivable prospect who probably has an NHL upside, basically. And especially if you're a fan of a team who's picking high, you want to know about your options and which guy you should get mad at your GM for drafting instead of the guy you like. this is your opportunity and if you sign up for an annual subscription with the code I love EP

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get in on this while you can you can find me at the athletic you can watch me tread water as I wait for the off-season to begin. I had a post this week where I ranked the last 25 Stanley Cup winning goals from worst to best, so you can go read that and see if you agree or not.

And tune in tomorrow on the athletic hockey show. Me and Ian Mendez will either be reacting to the Tampa Bay Lightning being Stanley Cup champions, or we will be making weird side-eye faces about how, uh-oh, Montreal might actually do this. So one way or another, if you want my reaction to game five, uh, check that out. There you go. All right, everybody,

thanks for, uh, listening. And obviously, when Sean gets smartened up, we'll completely break down season two if I think you should leave. That's right. In due time. Two time. Thanks everybody. Talk to you soon. Bye. See it. Bye. Bye.