Puck Soup - Constructive Summer

Episode Date: July 5, 2023

Sean and Ryan talk about trade rumors and UFA signings.   Sponsored by Raycon (buyraycon.com/puck) and Athletic Greens (athleticgeens.com/puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McIndoo from The Athletic. And we're back from Nashville. We're both home.

We made it. You know, my trip was not as tortured as I think everybody else is in the hockey media because I did stop over in Chicago for four days, which helped, I feel like. On purpose, or was that just, that was the best layover you could get? No, on purpose, went to see some of my favorite bands ever play a few shows, and they all did that, and it was great. I had hot dogs. I had, you know, hamburgers and all this kind of stuff.

Didn't have the pizza. Dude. Is that even allowed? I tried to have the pizza. It's a whole new pizza, but you didn't have, like, an hour and a half to kill while they made the pizza for you? What do you mean you tried and it wasn't, like, how do you fail to have pizza in Chicago? There is this place called Piquads that everybody's like. like that's like the place.

Like you can go to Lou Malnoughties. You can go to a bunch of different places. But like Piquods is like the best one. And it's good for people who are there by themselves because they have like a bar that you can sit at like individual seats. You know, you don't have to wait for a table. I get there. It's like seven o'clock on, I want to say Sunday. And no, it must have been closer to six.

and they were like, oh, yeah, the bar is closed tonight. The earliest we can get you a table is like 815, 820, something like that. And I was like, yeah, and then there's like an hour wait once I order in my right of it. And they were like, yeah, and I said, bye, bye. So I just started walking down the street. And Sean, you'll like this. In the distance, I see a big sign. that's like a spinning hot dog, like it's rotating 360 degrees.

And the restaurant is called fat soes. Perfect. And I said, well, all my problems just got solved. 100%. But, yeah, I did not have the pizza. So I did have fat soes. But I mean, I'm assuming you have had Chicago pizza many times. Just not in Chicago.

Oh, okay. So some would say that you haven't had the full experience. Yeah, and I wouldn't say they're wrong about that. but yeah, if that was the worst thing that happened to me this past weekend, and I think it probably was, I'm in great shape, you know? Not bad. I ate fatsos instead. Yeah.

Got a love a fatso. Got a double fatso with cheatso. I feel like if I order something called a double fatso, the cheese is implied. Well, when I was walking, I didn't know what I was going to get there. I figured I was going to get hot dogs, right? And as you're walking in, there's like a big neon sign that says, the double fatso with cheese, parentheses, please. And I was like, well, I got to get whatever that is.

And then it turned out to be a cheeseburger. Yeah, it was really good. Do you have any closing thoughts on like Nashville and the draft and all that kind of stuff? I enjoyed the city well enough. it's getting in and out was a nightmare but yeah that's uh that's as just sometimes that's just the way it goes oh yeah the draft itself i mean not certainly not the fireworks we're expecting in terms of making news uh you know we we talked about last week the lack of trades poor ryan sitting there with nothing to evaluate um um

So, yeah, I mean, the draft itself is going to be remembered for Connor Bedard and, like, probably the Flyers taking Mitchcov, and that's going to be about it. Yeah. This will be one of those drafts. You'll be like, I don't really remember anything else that happened. I just remembered that there was something I was going to tell you about my time in Chicago. Sunday night, I'm leaving the concert venue. I get in the lift because it's like midnight or whatever, 1230. And it's a bit of a hike to the Chicago.

I don't know what they call their subway system, but it's a bit of a hike. And I get in this SUV. And this guy's like, your name's Ryan, right? But, you know, I say, how's it going or whatever? And he's like, your name's Ryan, right? And I say, yeah. And he's like, is your last name, Lambert? And I was like, yeah?

he's like, do you have a hockey podcast? Wow. And I said, yeah. And he's like, hey, man, my name's Mike. I listen to almost every week, I think he said. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. Thank you. You know?

And then he says, you don't like the hawks. And I was like, well, that, I mean, it's not that I say bad stuff about them because they're bad and also because they're evil. Yeah. You know? And he's like, that's true. He's like, they are a little evil. That's true. And then the doors on the car locked.

Yeah, and he drove it right into a bridge above. Yeah. What are you going to do? No, he was super nice. His name was Mike. Great guy. Shout out to Mike. Yeah, I was only in that car for like five minutes, but all worked out.

That's very cool. Yeah. What's up, Mike, if you're listening. And if you're not, who can blame you, you know? So look, I don't want to get into like all the signings and all that kind of stuff really right now. Yeah. Let's first start talking about all the trades that have happened and are going to happen. Okay.

Okay. This should be quick because the ones that have happened as of whatever day this is, have been pretty minor. Yeah, and I guess that's the interesting part, right? Yeah, because like we have seen, there have been years in the past where we went into the draft weekend. Usually it's been a draft weekend,

thinking that we were going to get some fireworks. Things don't happen, and then by or around July 1st, it picks up again. Like I remember. as a Leafs fan. I remember the Phil Kessel trade a few years ago. That was going to happen at the draft and then it didn't and then I think it happened on July 1st.

And now we're sitting here, it's what, July 5th and still, nothing. Not nothing. Yeah. Very little. As close to nothing as you can get, basically. For example, I'm looking at this one of the July 1st trades. I don't think I even saw this. Colin Miller for a fifth round pick.

Did you hear about this? I feel like... Maybe. I feel like I missed that one. Yeah. Joel Edmondson, 50% retained. Yeah. For a third and a seventh.

That one I was just like... Washington, which is... Yes. That's the interesting part of that because it's sort of like... Which way is Washington going? Are they doing a rebuild? Are they still pushing to make the playoffs?

And this is the sort of move you make when you're... still trying to make the playoffs, which probably with a veteran Alexander Ovechkin is maybe the right call. Well, I said it before, but I just feel like everything they do now is just like, let's get Ovechkin past Gretzky. Yep. Playoffs, not playoffs, it doesn't really matter.

As long as he scores like 40, 50 goals the next couple of years. Yep. What do we always say? If you want to score 50 goals, you get Joel Edmondson. That's right. Preferably a 50% retained. One of the premier playmakers in the league.

No, it's just this, I really feel like this is the kind of move you make when you have no fucking idea what you're doing. Like as an organization, you know, it's like, is Joel Edmondson good? No. Is he now because of the salary retention cheap? Yeah, sure he is. You know? I think, and this kind of comes up with some of the other deals that have been. made though. If I'm Washington, I'm looking at this going, I mean, first of all, I'm getting an

okay player who's cheap, who fits in my lineup. I'm not giving up a huge amount. I mean, a third is not nothing, but I'm not, you know, I'm not giving up a ton to get him. If my team is back in the playoff mix this year, this guy will help. And if my team is not back in the playoff mix, I just move him at the deadline. And I can probably get most of what I paid for him back, if not maybe even more if he's having a good season. I can get a third round pick for this guy at the deadline. He will be cheap. That'll make him attractive to some team out there. Last year of his deal, crucially. So classic rental. So I don't hate that for Washington. Now if it stinks or he gets hurt, then you've just burned a decent pick.

But you know the last time Joel Edmondson played more than 60 games or 70 games in the, in the NHL? I do not. It's never happened once. Isn't that crazy? He also only debuted in 2015-16. Yeah. Doesn't it feel like he's been around forever?

Yeah, I'm just looking at his stats now. You're right. It's high 60s like year after year. I can't say healthy. Yep. It's crazy. Yeah, I am less optimistic that he will be of any help to Washington. Like maybe they can shelter him and like now he makes so little money that it's justifiable.

Like, you know, teams are so often afraid or not afraid, but you know what I mean. Like unwilling to be like, oh, that guy makes $4 million. Yeah, he is at the bottom of our fucking lineup. He stinks, you know? Teams don't want to do that. Now maybe Washington can justify that a little bit. I'll tell you this, though, I'd rather be the devils and have Colin Miller making a hundred grand more against the cap than Joel Edmondson. Fair.

Mm-hmm. But yeah, like, it's a classic situation with Edmondson where it's like, was he bad because the team was bad in Montreal? Or was he bad, or was the team bad in part because he wasn't good? Yeah. You never know. You do not. I guess we'll find out. But yeah, the only other, like, really, like, actually impactful trade, I feel like, is Anthony DeClair got moved to San Jose for Capspace, basically.

Stephen Lawrence is fine, but. Which, again, this is, you kind of look at that and go, oh, why San Jose? why are they I don't think there's a lot of, unlike Washington, a lot of question about where they're headed. No. But again, this is a case where you, teams

need cap space in the summer, so it's kind of smart for rebuilding teams to get those players if you can get an asset along with them, which is the way we typically think a cap dump deal is great, but if you can get them for virtually nothing,

they can flip this guy at the deadline. Sure. Again, and I mean this, you know, I think he'll have, I was going to say significant value at the deadline. Like, you know, I'm not saying he's going to be the guy teams are throwing first round picks around four, but you'll be able to get something pretty good for this guy from somebody.

Again, expiring contract. So he'll be a rental. So I don't mind that for the sharks. And that's especially true like he'll have value because who else are they going to put on the power play? Like, this guy's going to be eating first unit minutes on the power play all season. Yep. You know?

Probably first line minutes, like, overall. Now, he'll be doing it for a bad team. But as we've said a lot on this show over the years, someone's going to score. So the idea then that someone has to score, you know, can do clear get to 30 goals? I think it's possible, yeah, for sure. and if he gets to 30 goals or, you know, like he's on pace for that around the deadline, teams are going to be lining up for him. He's, what, 26, 27 years old?

Mm-hmm. Teams will be happy to give him, to give the sharks something to get him because he's a good player. You know, the fact that Florida traded him, like you say, that's a cap dump. Have we, I feel like we really haven't seen for what yet though, you know, like they, maybe they don't have that much space now that I look at it. Yeah, they, I guess they don't. So what did they dump them for? You mean as far as like what was the actual trade or what was the?

No, no, like what did they? Oh, I. Like, why did they offload his three million bucks just to give it to like Evan Rodriguez? I guess they gave it to Evan Rodriguez. That's, uh, yeah. I'm just looking at the page. And Oliver Recen-Larsen, I guess. Yeah, which is, you know, we won't do every sight.

Did you see Bill Zito's quote about him? No, what was it? It was basically like, we think he can play first unit power play minutes or something like that. And everybody in Vancouver was just doing the like yikes emoji face. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, he can play those minutes. He can put him on the ice for them.

Yeah, that's right. But yeah, so I don't know. Is Florida better now than they were a week and a half ago? I don't know. Not sure. I did like that Mike Riley signing for them. I actually like the Ekman-Larsen because they got them cheap one year. Yeah, it's the one year that's critical, right?

You know, that is something we said last year all season about the Panthers before they went on their big run was that, you know, Not enough in the blue line. They miss McKenzie Weigar. It's a different player, but adding a veteran who has played well in this league on a cheap one-year deal, I don't mind. Yeah. I just don't know if he can get around anymore on the ice, you know? Mm-hmm.

That's kind of his big problem, and I don't know that moving to Florida is going to fix it. But, you know, you never root against it. to player to like regain his form or whatever you want to say. I absolutely root against players for all sorts of reasons. Not me. I'm actually really nice. Yeah. The only other trade of note, I guess, maybe the only other trade period, is Patrick

Maroon to Minnesota. Yep. Classic cap dump. And look, I don't, I don't blame the lightning. Are you surprised they didn't, they couldn't get something for this guy? Just given the, you know, he is the magical veteran with the cup rings and... He was pretty bad last year, man. I don't...

I don't know how else to put it, you know? Like, he just... He's getting up there. He plays a style that's not going to, like, do him any favors long term. And how old is he? Yeah, he's 35. So, no, I'm not really surprised to answer your question. seven what was it a seventh round pick and and then and he went with an A HL player maybe like

free up a contract space or something like that like probably yeah yeah he just I just don't I just don't know that he has it anymore like if let me put it this way if a team like Tampa can't like shelter him make him look good who can yep yeah that's that's fair but apparently he was you saw the stories right where he was in Minnesota at the time the trade happened. Yes. And he was excited, they said. Yep.

Yeah, I mean, who wouldn't be? Go from Tampa in January to St. Paul? Finally. Yes. That's what's up. That is excellent. All right. Now let's talk about some trades that...

The far, far bigger, more interesting trades that... May or may not have. Have not happened yet. God bless you. Let's start... I want to start. start in the drama department here. I want to start. Which one? Because there's two. That's what I mean. Yeah. Let's start with Alex to Brinket.

Okay. This has gotten very interesting where the GM's like, ah, the player's holding this up. What am I supposed to do? And the player via his agent is going, I don't know what they're fucking talking about. Yes. I love it. For people who are maybe not caught up on the situation, It De Brinket is He's an RFA

He does not have a contract for next year But he's under team control They're going to arbitration in theory So he's He is senator's property But after next year he becomes a UFA Correct So the

And he apparently has made it clear That he is not going to sign an extension in Ottawa He'll sign the one year Whatever Right Does not see you Yeah, you won't sign long term.

This isn't yet. Yeah, a long-term extension. This is, at this point, I haven't heard anything about a holdout or, you know, not reporting or anything like that. But if he plays in Ottawa, it's going to be for one more year and then he's going to walk and they will get nothing for him. By the way, his qualifying offer is 9 million smackerues. But apparently in arbitration, they can drop that by some percentage.

So it gets down into the high sevens, which is, yeah, It's okay. That would be reasonable. So as everybody's waiting for the trade to happen, and there was a report in the Ottawa Sun by Bruce Garriuk, who I guess we can say is very plugged into Pierre Dorian. And essentially saying that, the issue here, and there was some reporting from Darren Drager that back this up,

that De Brinkett and his side is the holdup. Because they are not either not willing to talk to teams about an extension or have not done that or those conversations have gone. Well, basically the senators are saying they're going out to the market. and being told, yes, I'm interested in Alex DeBrinke, but I need to talk to him because I'm not going to give you a first-round pick and then find out that he doesn't want to sign an extension with us either. So the senators would, in theory, like those conversations to happen,

but under certain terms and this and that. And so there was some, there is some angst growing in Ottawa that this trade hasn't happened. And so the senator's front office put out their side of it, which is, hey, it takes two to tango and we need Alex. to Brinkett to help us out. And that led to De Brinkett's side firing back. And my buddy Ian Mendez had this where the quote was that they are waiting patiently for a trade to happen.

And they say, this is his agent, saying agents and players don't make trades. That's the GM's job. So pretty firmly whacking the tennis ball. into, but here's the more interesting quote to me from Jeff Jackson, the agent. As far as I have been advised, there has been no agreement of any kind on an actual trade involving Alex, and I would require that before entering into an actual negotiation. So that to me sounds like he's essentially confirming what the senators are saying, which is that he's not playing ball until a trade gets made.

Right. Now, there's some wiggle room there. Like, what is entering into an actual negotiation versus an informal exchange of number? Like, I can understand him saying, I'm not going to sit, sit down and spend my week hammering out a contract with a team that this guy doesn't play for. And then the senators can just pull the rug out. Like, I get that you don't want to go too far down the road. But while I am a little bit loat to defend Pyradori, in too much.

I see his point in this. Like, hey man, like, give us some teams that you are willing to sign long term with and be willing to talk to those teams and reassure them that they're not getting you for one year because if we think you're only here for, if anyone thinks you're only there for one year, you're torpedoing your value that we're going to get in trade.

And it's at least possible that the reason this is playing out this way is that Alex DeBrenka just wants to be a free agent. and he doesn't want to sign an extension anywhere, especially coming off a not very good season. And so this is just all the dance to get him to free agency and that the senators are going to end up holding the bag here in one way or another, either by having to keep the player or by having to accept not very much back in return. Yeah, it's a really tricky situation. and like I guess I guess the thing that I'd be losing my mind over if I'm Pierre Dorian and like he he made the he made the statement basically like look he doesn't want to sign here long term that doesn't mean he won't sign here for one year and it's like so you're asking to maybe lose him for nothing or get him at or get like a minimum a relatively minimum return given that he is not guaranteed to sign as a rental anywhere or whatever.

I mean, if you're- I wouldn't want to be signing up for that if I'm Pierre Dorian. But if you're Dorian, you have to play, you have to at least create the perception that you're okay with going into the season with him. Yeah. Because that's, otherwise you have no leverage at all. And I think people can see the bluff, but I mean, if you, you still have to, to play that game where you say like yeah we'll just take him as an own rental and you know we'll be

happy to do that and and make it seem like teams have got to move you off of that what where it gets especially interesting is for a lot of these situations you might say one of two things you'd say okay just keep the guy for a year then keep them for a year and go make the playoffs make a playoff run and he's got as much value to you as he would to any other team if you're a contender other teams if you're rebuilding you would say okay you know what not the worst thing in the world to hold on to him wait till the deadline if he's having a good season if he's healthy a lot of his contract will be paid off by then you maybe you can get more for him at the deadline than you would doing it in the summer that's another way to approach it the senators though are are stuck in

between those two worlds where they're going into the season expecting to make the playoffs and in fact under a lot of pressure to make the playoffs and yet not really viewed as a contender yet. I mean, maybe they're this year's New Jersey that makes the big jump, but feels more like they're a playoff bubble team, which then what do you do if you get to February and your four points out of the playoffs with Alex to Brinkett? Like now it's just an even tougher situation than. than any other, especially if Pierre Dorian is still the GM there and who even knows at that point.

So I don't know. We got to see how it plays out, but this is, this one's interesting. Yeah. And your point about are they a playoff team? Look, I think a lot of us don't expect Boston to be as good as they were last year, right? Mm-hmm. But let's say they drop 40 points in the standings. Yeah.

Right. Like, there's just, things would have to go so catastrophically wrong for them not to clear 100 points somewhat comfortably, I would think. And like, guess what? Things could go catastrophically wrong if your top center is Charlie Coyle and Pavel Zaka, right? We would have said something similar about the Panthers last year. They were 120 something points. And they ended up almost a single player. It could happen, but you're right. I mean, you figure Boston's in. Tampa's in, Toronto's in.

You would figure. Yeah, I mean, obviously this is all. New York feel good. So yeah, I mean, this is the thing, right? It almost feels, and it never works out the way we think, but it almost feels like there's one spot up for grabs in the east. Yeah, and Buffalo obviously is looking at. It seems on a better trajectory.

Detroit, who knows. Pittsburgh still wants it. Washington still wants it. The Islanders have it. So, I mean, you can't certainly can't write them. I mean, it feels like everyone other than who Montreal, Columbus, Philly thinks they're going to make the playoffs this year. So it could be Ottawa. But certainly not with a level of confidence that.

Yeah. And if they make. it feels like it would be oh, they're cannon fodder, you know. Well, there's that too. We're the seven seed. We're going to get our heads cut off at the first round. Although I feel like

with the senators, even that would be okay. I mean, that is them making the playoffs and getting swept is far better than them missing the playoffs yet again. I would argue, but. Hmm. I don't know if I agree with that.

I think they would say that's true, but I don't know that I think that's true. Fair enough. All right, let's move on to the other drama. Trade situation. John Gibson may or may not want out of Anaheim. Yeah, so this is where you get into the joy of parsing people's language. That's right.

Because there was a report. It was Frank, right? Frank Cerberle. Had a report. Do you have the quote in front of you? Because I think the word matters. I do not. And boy, should I have done that? Yeah, we should. Let's temporarily stall here because he basically said that John Gibson had told the Ducks that he was, quote, not playing another game for them.

And the quote here is, this is the Sarvelli quote. I don't believe it was phrased as Frank quoting John Gibson. he was paraphrasing him. But he was saying that Gibson has said to the ducks, I'm out. I'm not playing another game. The John Gibson's agent fires back in a statement, not just a tweet. He puts out an official statement, says, yeah, okay, so here's Sarvelli. John Gibson has asked for a trade and he said, I am not playing another game for the Anaheim duck.

So I guess, yes, he's quoting Gibson. but the context feels like it's more of a paraphrase. So the agent fires back. He says the report is false, unjust, and inflammatory. My client has never stated to any members of the Anaheim Ducks front office, any such statement. John Gibson is honored to be a member of Anaheim Ducks and is committed supporter of its fan base, blah, blah, blah. So a denial. That's nice.

And yet, as many people have pointed out, the denial seems to say that he never said he's not playing another. game. It doesn't say that he hasn't requested a trade. It doesn't say my client looks forward to to finishing his contract with the ducks. My client has no desire to be trade. Anything like that. Yeah. And also. I'm not playing another game, which you get into this whole thing where it is not hard to envision a scenario where Frank Seraveli is accurately conveying the situation, even if he's maybe getting out over skis just a little bit as far as his story. As far as his phrasing, which I think he said it on a podcast, right? I mean, this, he didn't write it. Right. Sometimes you, yeah, sometimes you say something and go, ah, that didn't quite come out right,

but that it is still the case that John Gibson wants out from Anaheim, even if he did not use those words and maybe didn't go as far down the road of expressing it as it was reported. Yeah, and also my client has never stated to any member of the Anaheim Ducks front office, any such statement. It doesn't mean he didn't say it to somebody. It doesn't mean that he didn't say it to his agent, and his agent said it to the Ducks as an example. Wow. Well, I was just saying, like, oh, you know, like in theory, he talked to Frank, right? And Frank goes, and he goes to Frank.

I'm never fucking play for those pubs again, you know? in theory that, you know, the never said it to a member, like leaves open the possibility that he said it to everybody except a member of the. Could have said it to a coach, could have said it to a team. You're right. Like that, and again, just, you know, I just said that with Frank, he was on a podcast, he wasn't right. This was a written statement by the agent. So in theory, they parse every word of it. Mm-hmm.

It's fun to play this game for sure. Or it could literally be that Frank got bad information and the, agent is pissed about it and we're just reading too much between the lines. But this is what you have to do when it's July and nobody's making any damn trades. Well, the other thing about that, though, is that Frank replied. Did you see the reply? Oh, no, I didn't. Okay.

This is what I was waiting for. So he says, hey, Kurt, do you remember the last time you attempted to claim my reporting was false? All the best. And it was from December 2020. The tweet this morning from Frank Sarvelli regarding David Ludwig accepting a position with the Arizona Coyotes as false. David remains a valued member of the K.O. sports team and is fully committed to the group and its clients. And then like three days later, David Ludwig named director of hockey operations and salary cap compliance by the Arizona Coyotes. Whoops.

Okay. All right. So Frank is saying, oh, you're going to refute this? That's interesting. Like, and not, again, like, he's going, I have good information here. I did not realize it was the same, the same agent, same group. That is very interesting. Yep.

And look, the other part of this is John Gibson can want a trade all he wants. Mm-hmm. He's got four years left at $6 million. It's a tough sell, man. seeing like people reference that as like you know hey if you need a goalie hey the contract's not too bad is yes it is oh it's terrible now if anaheim retains 50 percent then but but even then like four years left on the contract of a goalie who hasn't been good in many years and granted behind a very bad team absolutely uh so you know to just look at save percentage or something like

that is too simplistic for sure. But, man, I mean, it's, uh, it's, this is one of those things where it's like, are we overlooking the fact that, uh, through all of this, maybe, uh, nobody wants John Gibson. So maybe it's better to not be drawing any firm lines in the sand about how you're not playing another game because might only have one, one team to play for. Yep. Yep.

But yeah, I guess we'll see on that. You know, it feels like it's unlikely to happen. I would be surprised. Yeah. And then, of course. Speaking of I would be surprised, but it could happen. Eric Carlson. Yeah.

Heard of this guy, folks. Place for the San Jose Sharks. And, you know, again, how clearly was this stated? how, you know, who knows, but wants out. It's basically the broad consensus here. He doesn't want to play for the sharks anymore. He wants to, especially, like, at the NHL Awards, he was basically saying, I would love to be on a team that's not this one, please.

Sounds like he would like to go back to competing for a Stanley Cup. And very clearly is not imminent in. San Jose. And I've said, I mean, I said during the season, they got to trade him during the season. That would be the time to do it. I've said kind of all along this summer that I'm hesitant. And yet the fact that he seems so badly to it, like, doesn't this start to feel like they have no choice?

Even if they have to eat 50% or whatever the number is, that they're going to have to move him. Like, this doesn't, I mean, this isn't a job. John Gibson thing. Somebody out there will take Eric Carlson at some price. I don't think the sharks are going to get anywhere near what sharks fans are hoping for them. And I don't think, I think they would have got more during the season. But to say that the deal isn't going to happen, I don't know. It seems like everyone's very motivated for it to happen. Yeah, it does. And yet, the financials and what the return is and all this kind of stuff,

like just make it feel like intractable in a lot of ways. You know, like you just can't who's gonna not even blink first, but like who could move first here, you know? Like it's not about like brinksmanship or whatever. It's just about like trying to figure out a way to make this particular extremely difficult to move contract move. move. And I don't, you know, oh, Seattle's interested. Florida is interested. Carolina's interested. There was a lot of buzz around Carolina for a few days. And I would say at the draft,

I heard plenty of keep an eye on Seattle here. And like, the idea that they would trade him in division was a little surprising to me. But they got to find a buyer here. It's, it's, It's not going to, it's not going to laugh. Like they can't, they can't preclude themselves from making a trade with a, whatever, 30% of the league, 25% of the league. Yeah. Especially when you're not, I mean, he's got four years left on his deal. Probably will only be playing at an elite level for a couple of those years. Yeah.

He's not knocking you out of the conference final at some, at any point. Like, I feel like you can just go ahead and get the best, get the best offer you can. Yeah. Now, you know, going to Seattle, you're trying to compete for a cop. How's that going to work? And it's a good question. I don't know that there's a good answer. Made the playoffs one around last year. You can certainly talk yourself into if they go to even say, look, this is the best we've got. Sign me out. Sure. Yeah. Totally. But it'll be, you know, I hope for his sake he moves. I've said it a million times. He's one of my favorite players ever. you know, in his prime, who is for more fun to watch?

Short list. Yep. And, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you want, uh, you want your, your favorite players to be in a position where they, they're playing for Stanley Cups or at least pretending they can and all that, but man, that's really, I just don't know how it gets done without something really crazy happening, kind of, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean. The crazy may just be that Mike Greer has told him, like, yeah, I will trade you.

And, you know, like, I think we talked about it last week, right, where Greer had the quote where he was like, if people think we're going to eat 50% of this salary, that's probably not going to happen. And we're like, oh, that's an interesting word to throw into that. That's that probably, because probably is not definitely. So I don't. And as we've said, the, how much salary are they willing to eat? is the, like, that's the leverage point for what, if anything, they get a value in return. And it's easy to say you just eat as much as you can to increase the return. But that's, you know, that's a cap room and also real dollars going out the door.

And that might be a tough sell to an owner, even in San Jose. Totally. Yep. It's, uh, look, like I said, I hope it happens. but I'm certainly not holding my breath because usually it feels like, you know, like chatter picks up a little bit. And again, there was plenty of chatter at the draft. When was the last time you heard a word about this?

Yeah, everything's gone really quiet, which is, first of all, it means it's all these trades are going to happen as soon as we stop recording. Of course, classic, yeah. But, yeah, and as people will point out, we've seen trades get done further into the summer Matthew Kachuk last year was a very different situation but has at least some comparables to the

De Brinket in that there was an arbitration hearing hanging over it and so yeah and I guess the other thing to say with Debrinket is he could go to arbitration but as soon as he does as soon as he is that contract is signed he now can't sign

an extension until July 1, which, or sorry, January 1? January 1, which means the ability to trade him before the season. So, I mean, if you're saying, like, why don't you just go to arbitration and then, you know, you can still trade him in September? Well, you really can't because now he can't sign that extension some team's going to want. Yep. Alex, to drink it for Eric Carlson. Who says no?

Eric Carlson. You know, people say Eric Carlson really love. Would he go back to Ottawa? Really loves it in Ottawa. Yeah. Now, he, you know, he has a home here, all this stuff. Whether he wants to be part of, from a hockey situation, I've. That's more my question for sure.

I think he might, but yeah, I don't, that is, that trade is, I was being a wise ass unless that trade actually happens, in which case you must credit Sean McHan on the scoop. All right. Why don't we take a break? We'll come back. We'll talk about UFA and all that. kind of stuff. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Raycon and folks, summer's all about getting those vibes just right. You know what I mean? Getting into the

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Check it out. All right. We're back. And, you know, we got a lot of UFA signings to talk about. But I don't want to do it like, you know, signing by signing. I don't want to break down every contract. I instead want to talk to like in broad terms. All right.

About winners and losers, trends, that sort of thing. And I guess the number one trend that we have seen is guys going short term for short money. Yes.

Which makes absolute perfect sense. The cap is going up next year. I don't know if you've heard that. But yeah, cap's going up. So everybody's tight to the cap. if you're a player who isn't being offered long-term security, then you're much better off to take one year instead of what maybe would have been the old way to do it,

which is just get me as many years as you can. I'll take two or three or four. No, no, take one. And then in theory, there's more money out there next year. Now, the more money next year might be like an extra $4 million per team, so there's still not enough for all of these guys to get what they may. maybe are hoping for, but certainly a lot of guys are, I mean, at this point, I don't even think it's betting on yourself. I think they're just doing the obvious thing.

Yeah, I would agree with that. Maybe like the big example of this is Tyler Bertuzzi going to the Leafs. Yep. where it was a situation where he was like, I'm going to get money and term. And the Bruins were like, oh, that can't be us then. Sorry, you know. And it was, I mean, that one was, again,

we're reading between the lines here, but that was an interesting one because it really felt like it was illustrative of how quickly the tide had to do. change because he went into free agency, Boston having interest in him, apparently wanted money in term, and then by the late afternoon on the second day of free agency had taken one year to go to Toronto. And he was asked, like, why not just, if you were willing to take a year, why not stay in

Boston? and I mean his answer was sort of a non-answer, but you can kind of feel like the answer was actually, well, you know, things changed. I didn't want one year, and by the time I realized I had to take a year, Boston had moved on and had spent their money on other things. So I took what I could get somewhere.

And if that's a case of the Leafs waiting them out and then, you know, good job by them. But I think that's one of the contracts that most people seem to like. From a team perspective, obviously, if he's amazing in Toronto and he shoots the lights out, everyone's going to be saying why they should have given him more years, but you cross that bridge when you get to it. And could they have given him more years given their, you know, what they need to get done in the next 12 months? Yeah, it makes sense for everyone to be doing one-year deals,

but especially the Leafs where you've got Nealender and Matthews are going to apparently crush the salary cap next year. reset the marketplace for everyone except the other 31 teams. Yeah, did you see this report that Nealander thinks he's a $10 million player? I've seen reports that it could be that higher, at least in the nines. And I, yeah, I put it this way. I can see why he would look at Mitch Marner at 11 and say, sure, totally. I should be pretty close to 10.

Yeah. And then he'll get the 10, and then Mitch Martyr will go, well, if Nealander's a 10, then I've got to be a 13. Meanwhile, Matthews will be making 14.5. Easy, yeah. And Connor Bardard will sign at eight-year extension for $7 million with the Blackhawks because who even cares. So, yeah, I guess that is like the one big overarching thing. and teams kind of I would say getting guys cheaper

than I would have expected as well and maybe that's just a function of look at the cat is not moving and you know these guys got a sign somewhere so if we can squeeze every guy like 200, 500 grand or whatever

yeah there were far fewer dumb contracts handed out where you'd like immediately go, oh, that's, you know, those contracts you usually get where immediately everyone goes, oh, that's dumb. And then the fans of that team go, well, but. It's actually really smart. But that's what you have to do for free agency, right? Like, in order to get the guy,

you got to overpay. And we didn't see as much of that. The thing that was interesting to me, and we sort of touched on it with Bertuzi, but is how many guys by, in some cases, day one, but certainly by day two and three, we're already taking those deals. Like a lot of times we wait and it's, there are certain guys that we were a week or two in and they haven't signed anywhere and you're going, okay, now the reality is setting in. And it felt like there was almost an understanding that, all right, you know what? I am going to get a year. And if I'm going to get, if the guys like Domi Bertuzi, Dushain was a bit different because he was just bought out. So the, you know, the money in theory is.

isn't as important, but hey, if I'm going to get a decent cap hit for one year, I got to move now, so I don't get stuck being one year at a cheap cap hit. Now, there are still some decent names out there that are maybe playing that game, but not as many as you might have thought given how tight things have been. Yeah, totally. It'll be really interesting to see what happens for the rest of the summer just because there are name players, if not good players out there, if that makes sense. You know what I mean?

Matt Dumba's the one that I'm surprised that he's out there. Yeah, he just wasn't good last season, and I think he... I think he probably wants to, you know, avoid the risk that comes with, what if I stink again next year? And then I might just be out of the league, you know? You think? No, I mean, that's maybe how he's thinking about it, though. You know?

So the, here's the UFAs by, actually, let me do, I was looking by points, but let me do it by cap hit last year. Okay, so Patrick Kane is hurt and sounds like he's willing to just wait into the fall and sort of when he's fully healthy. Jonathan Taves, we don't know if he's coming back. Vladimir Teresenko, it's kind of an interesting one. Heard his name with a couple of teams. Yeah.

Again, it sounds like that's going to be a cheaper, I mean, you know, come down from, he was at 7.5 last time. Matt Dumba is next, Thomas Tatar. I'm skipping guys who were obviously heard or questionable to come back. And then, yeah, that's kind of it. I'm scrolling down and I'm not seeing anyone that makes me. Bergeron is clearly we're waiting if he's going to go back to Boston and that's Yeah, he's going to one team and one team only for sure. Yep.

If he's going anywhere. Martin Jones is a UFA coming off. Well, I was going to say not a terrible season, but certainly not a good one. Not a good one. Paul Stasney. Yeah. Ethan Baer would be interesting. And of course, Phil Kessel.

The great Phil Kessel. We got a, we got a, we got a. a question in the mailbag. I don't think I put it on there, so I'm happy to do it now, I guess, of like, why don't you just retire if you're Phil Kessel, you know? And somebody asked me over the weekend, somebody asked me the same question about Jonathan Quick. You just won another cup.

You're getting up there, you know, all this. And it's like, well, someone's going to, like, give them 800 grand to just, like, be okay at best and with Jonathan quick. I feel like that's generous. But it's like if someone's going to give me $800 grand to do like anything for a year, I'd be like, yeah, no problem. I think, I mean, first of all with Phil Kessel,

I don't know if you know this, but he loves the game. Tries hard anyway. Yeah. Look, I mean, a lot of these guys, when they get to a certain age, you might be physically breaking down. You might look at your family situation and say it's time for me to be home.

It's, you know, all of this stuff. there are a lot of these guys have a level of pride and they don't want to be out there being a shell of themselves sure so there's there's very good reasons to to shut it down but being an hl player is a very fun job like yeah even put aside the money man like it's it's pretty fun yeah you know fly private you know you get to fly around hang out with the boys live a pretty good lifestyle uh i i can understand why you be Like, if I could do that for another year, yeah, I think I will. I think I'm, I think I'll re-up for that, for sure, yeah. But yeah, you know, if one of the, um, most compelling free agents out there is Phil Kessel

here in, here in the year of our Lord, 2023, that tells you a lot about the state of the, uh, free agent class. Yeah. We've, we've kind of, we've kind of got all the big ones other than a, small handful of names. And not a lot of teams left with Cap Space, although a few. So who knows?

You know, the Carolinas and other teams out there. And, you know, maybe stuff like Eric Carlson is holding up some of the rest of this, but we'll find out. We'll find out. Okay, let's do some quick winners and losers of teams, not necessarily players, I would say, but of teams, you. got any winners and losers. Let's start with the winners, obviously.

All right. Who are the winners here? I think the answer number one for me is Carolina. Yeah. Carolina, again, is doing smart things. And again, to be deterred. They're a little bit weird because we are waiting to see if they get Eric Carlson. We are also waiting on that Tony DiAngelo trade, which apparently is going to happen.

It's just a question of waiting a few days away, yeah. But, well, you know, they're, as always, mostly doing smart things and using cap space. But, you know, they have cap space and then they use the cap space, but they don't use it on stupid stuff. They don't say we've got cap space, so we'll overpay for something. Because then you go, oh, gee, now I don't have cap space anymore. How weird that it turned out that way. So I like that. I like Dallas getting Matt Duchenne.

I think there's, if there's any, like, efficiency in the market, guys who have just been bought out are fantastic. Number one with a bullet, yeah. Because they're getting all sorts of money. They don't have to go out and they can take a cheaper deal and everybody understands what's going on. And so you just got to go to them and say, hey, we're a good fit. We're a good place to live. We're a contender, whatever else. So I like that one.

I mean, a lot of people. Yeah, feel like that. That's, I mean, I think if a lot of people. lot of people had to pick, like, the single number one signing, that might be, that might be. You know, it's either that or that Dimitri Orlov deal in Carolina, they got him for two years. Yes. Obviously, like, a good size cap number. He's making almost $8 million.

But, like, that's a number one defenseman on a lot of teams in the league. Mm-hmm. And just adding him to that blue line and then maybe also getting Eric Carlson is crazy. Yeah. Like unbelievable. And yeah, I think Dushan and Orlov are maybe the two big, best big pickups of the. What did you think the Michael Bunting deal for Carolina? Do you not look at him and go, that is a Carolina player?

Yeah. Pain in the ass to play against kind of a dickhead out there. Congratulations to him, by the way, being out of Toronto that he can now start drawing penalty. again. That'll be a big deal for him. But yeah, the fact that they got him for three, the big concern with bunting was the big concern with a lot, is the

I guess it's kind of the concern with every UFA that ever hits the market is someone's going to give him too much money in too many years. And neither happened. I think four and a half is about right. And to get him for three years is like

solid. For a guy who was at one point number one on one of the lists. It was the TSN board maybe or maybe it was the daily face eye. Like, yeah, it's, uh, that's, that's pretty good bit of work. And you're only paying him until he's 30. Yeah, good for him too because he, he came to Toronto on a real cheap deal and he held up his end of the bargain.

So totally. Yeah, I love that contract. So I like, yeah, Carolina. I like that. I mean, I don't, I know the quick thing is sort of dicey, but I, I, I, I, I, I, didn't hate the Rangers. I mean, getting Blake Wheeler cheap like that, again, buyout. Totally.

Makes a lot of sense. It's tough for the Rangers because we always look at who a team added. Yeah. You got to look at who they lose too. And the Rangers, I mean, they just lost Teresenko and Kane in free agency. And now both were rental guys. So, I mean, it doesn't feel like a subtraction as much. But, you know, I don't know that you say the Rangers are better, better.

But they're getting guys cheap. And I mean, Quicks a little different as a goalie, but I mean, if it doesn't work, you send him down to the minors and he's off your cap. Yeah, and he'd be in Hartford, which that's near where he's from. What a dream for him. That's probably how he always dreamed of finishing his career.

That's right. Yeah, you know, I had written down that I kind of liked L.A. as like winners of the deadline or whatever. But now that I, now that I'm looking at it, like, I don't think they really added anybody of like significant note other than obviously the trades they made. But like they didn't really go sign anybody in free agency, but they got Dubois and, you know, I think that'll,

I think that'll work out pretty good for them. You like to trade. They got Cam Talbot, which, again, you're into this thing where it's like, yeah, but I mean, he was good with this. coach six years ago. Man, they love, the NHL loves that. This guy was, this guy was good for me six years ago, so I'll just, I'll just tell them to be good again. Not enough themes think of it that way, you know? I mean, basically in a weird way, the senators and the kings kind of trade goalies, right? Because Corpus out of those to Ottawa and Talbot, and I don't think too many

of us would say Talbot's a better goalie, but cheaper and now under the terms of of the contract, that's an interesting swap. Yep, for sure. You got any other winners? I'm not, I'm not, along the same lines as the Rangers, I guess, the Bruins added a bunch of good, not great players for next to nothing, like each, if that makes sense. But again, you know, with the Bruins, you got to look at who they lost.

For sure, of course. Of course. You know, Orlov and Burtuzi, again, rentals, losing Taylor Hall too. Same thing with the Leafs. I mean, the Bertuzi signing and to maybe a lesser extent, Domi, seemed like good moves. Klingberg, I don't know, Ryan Reeves, everyone has their feelings on that. But you got to again look at who walked out the door. They had like, what, 70 or 80 goals leave.

So I don't think you can look at them and say they were big winners. I'm looking around I don't know that anyone else jumps out at me as huge winners I like Connor Brown to Edmonton I think that has a potential to be a really good bet

but yeah I don't I'm not feeling strong feelings about about a lot of these guys I did like what Chicago did trade-wise and just taking on getting guys for next to nothing veteran guys and again that they can either start to build not a team around but a season around or flip at the deadline. Not bad. But who did you not like? That'll probably be more fun.

Sure. I wrote an article about this the other day, but my number one with a bullet for me is the Red Wings. I just can't figure out what these fucking guys are doing. See, here come the Red Wing fans. Gotta be patient. Here's the thing. Steve Eiserman, he's got a plan. I wrote the article. Is your plan. I wrote the article though.

It was nothing but read. Now, these were only the people that, like, responded to it. Okay. But usually you say something bad about the Red Wings or whoever, and they're like, fuck you, you don't know anything about hockey, whatever. All of them were like, yeah, I don't know what's going on. I think this is just a GM. who has gotten a little high on his own supply of limitless patience from a fan base.

Yeah, maybe. Slowly but surely tiptoeing forward. I mean, they made some strides last year, we thought, in the offseason, blew it all up after two bad games in Ottawa, became sellers again at the deadline. I don't, I don't know, man. I know. I don't see

the future is bright in terms of volume of prospects. I don't see the elite guys coming that are going to really move the needle. That's totally correct. I have been admonished multiple times by Red Wing fans that I have to see the bigger picture

and Stevie's got it. And I really want to ask him if any other GM who wasn't your friend, favorite player growing up was doing this, whether you would feel the same way. So let me, let's start with this. Much like last summer, I didn't look at who they added and go, that guy stinks, or even necessarily that's not a good contract.

It was more the whole time being like, that's it. You know what I mean? Look, look, the last two years have not been good for. free agent classes. Let's just say that right now. But like you're going, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to add Andrew Cop and J.T. Comfer and David Perron. Like, those are, those are good enough, uh, you know, like they're good, they're good, they're good NHL players, I'll say. And okay, you know, cop was bad last year. So what can you do? But, when you go out and get those kind of players and you give them all four or five million bucks,

that adds up quickly and it does not result in you like winning as many hockey games as you would want if you were trying to actually compete for anything. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And like if you have a one, two, three down the middle of Larkin-com for cop, you're in really good shape in theory but in actual practice like you were saying you don't have the high end talent

like yeah let me ask you this do you think Dylan Larkin is better or worse than Matt Barzal I probably would have them around the same tier but correct yeah yeah but and I don't I mean there isn't anyone I mean maybe I'm missing something prospect wise but But there isn't anyone in the whole organization that's like an elite game-breaking guy

other than we're still hoping most Sider is that guy. And he's 22. He's got a little while to get there. But other than that, I mean, sure. If Dylan Larkins, your best forward by a decent margin, dot, dot, frowny face. That's basically where I'm coming from with. that. And look, like nobody, nobody likes the Chirot contract, right? Stupid on the day was signed, blah, blah, blah. You know, you can, you can definitely say all that. That's undeniable, I think.

But, yeah, you just, for me, I just look at it and say, like, you know, basically, like, what are we doing here, you know? It feels to me like they are shooting, for 15th to 19th place with this group. And if that's the case, what's the fucking point? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Like is that, that's what the Eiser plan was the whole time,

is we're trying to get to fucking 15th place? Red Wing fans would point out that, because they love to point this out, they've had miserable luck with draft lottery. Here's the thing. No, they haven't. No, they haven't. No, they haven't. They could have taken Quinn Hughes. They didn't do it. They took Zadena instead. Which a lot of people thought at the time was the right pick. But like that's, that just goes to show you like you, it doesn't always work out even like even if you go best player available. But the point is it's, you know, we're sitting here saying like where's the superstar? Where's the guy? And they're sitting there going, we pick fourth or later every year. I mean, that's how are we supposed to get our Connor McDavid or whoever. Yeah, sure. Fair enough. But, but, you know, when, when the luck doesn't bounce your way,

do you adjust the plan or do you just keep pushing forward? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I get it. I get what you're saying. But I don't know. Nobody's, Like, what about, like, let's use this as a good example. The 2020 draft stinks, right? Like, it's not, it's not good. But they take Lucas Raymond fourth overall, and there's maybe not anybody worse than them there, you know, than him, I mean. Like, he, he's got 102 points in 156 NHL games. Mm-hmm.

But that's not a game. breaking talent, that is a good top six guy. And if you, you know, Michael Rasmussen is before, and I think maybe even Zadena is before Eiserman even shows up. And so we're looking at Sider and Raymond, like those are two guys that are good. But they're also just like- Iserman hasn't been there that long. No.

He's been there four years. Yeah, four years. And again, this is the thing, this is the metaphor that I, I used to use the leafs, and it applies here too. It's, he came in with a huge job ahead of them. And if it's a, if, when I strap my kids into the backseat to take him to grandma and grandpa's house, it's a five-hour drive. And if they start asking me three hours in, if we're there yet, I get annoyed because I'm like, no, you knew how long this was going to take. We're not there yet.

but also if we're still in the driveway, it's a fair question. Well, it's not even that. It's, let me jump on your metaphor here. But it's like if your kids are going, are we there yet three hours in? And you go, yeah, we are. And you just pull to the side of the road and let the kids out of the car. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Because you don't sign all these people, all these perfectly good NHL players, who don't really move the needle for you unless you're a contender already. You don't sign all these guys and then say, oh, and, you know, of course, we're going to be competing for something now. Like, it's declaring the rebuild over before the rebuild is over in a way.

Like, obviously they're going to keep, but like now they're getting into a point where it's like, oh, we've had really bad lottery luck we picked 11th every year you know and it's like

that's how you become the Canucks or like the team I always uses the example of hopelessness like the mid-2000s Calgary Flames mid to late 2000s

the going for at Calgary Flames that's how you become those guys yeah so except minus the trip to the final a few years before that Yeah, that's right. I don't know if you remember, though, that Steve Eisenman, he won a few cups. So it buys you a lot of goodwill.

Have not heard. Did he change anything in order to win those? Is that? It's funny, he didn't. Okay. Who else did you not like? I got a team I want to throw out there that I feel like a lot of teams. The Islanders are getting all sorts of kind of eye rolls over.

Well, yeah. They're resigning their own guys to like, enormous contracts in terms of term. Yes, that's right. Seven year deals for Pierre Engval and Scott Mayfield. Now, both of those deals are cheap as far as the cap hit, as you would expect when somebody gets seven years. But you're giving, I mean, Mayfield, I think, is already 30.

Engval's into his late 20s, seven years. Is there any way to look at that other than Lulamarilla just doesn't give a shit about year six and seven? Uh, no, to answer, to answer your question, not even a little bit. Um, I, you know, it's a, he's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna sign these contracts, you know, he's Lou Lamarillo. He's not gonna not sign these kind of deals. Now, to me, obviously, I'm sitting there going, uh, and of course, the, the, the problem is that, like, these are guys that got you. to low positions in the standings the last couple of years. Yep. And you're like, well, we've got to fucking bring every one of them back, obviously. You know? Yeah, that's it.

You're keeping the band together, but the band hasn't been very good. Which is say the Ilya Sorokan deal was... Unbelievable. Yeah, sure. I mean, we're always saying, you know, don't give term to goalies, don't give term to goalies. But guy in his mid-20s has been this good, I'm okay with rolling the dice on that. Yep. You know, like, I remember when Henrik Lundquist signed that big long deal that was like his last contract, I think.

And I was like, what are we doing here? This guy's like 30 or 29 or whatever. Like, by the end of this, it's going to be a problem. And then it was, you know. And I guess the point is that early in that contract, he delivered so much value that you don't care anymore, you know. but with Sorokin, you don't have that problem. You just don't. Like, this guy's signed until he's like 33 or something like that, I think.

Yeah. 34. So you're more than happy to make that happen. It's not like he's going to be 38 at the end of it. But yeah, obviously, you know, this is classic loose stuff. I also wrote down kind of in the same vein, but it's, kind of a different lane on the same highway as as Detroit is Nashville.

Yeah. It's like they got good players, I guess, but like why? And again, you have to factor in the, I was going to say the buyout. It's the buyout and the dump of Duchenne and Johansen. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Barry Trots, a lot of talk about culture there.

Like almost too much, like to the point where if I'm, You shouldn't get your hands. And I'm like, geez, like, okay, we get it. You know, like sort of, you know, culture, culture, cult. And then you go out and sign Gustav Nyquist. And it's like, all right. So what have we? Is he like the grizzled winner that you want to build around?

I'm nervous a little bit that. On the one hand, I like the fact that Barry Trots as a new GM is coming in and he's doing things. He's not doing that sit on your hands for a, for a year. and try to figure it out and give me some patience and all this. But, boy, when you hear him just leaning so hard into the culture thing, you wonder. And it's like Nyquist is in the league still? Can that be right? You know what I mean?

Every year. Get traded for a second round pick at the deadline, all that. And he had, you know, he has his moments. O'Reilly is the one that's really interesting. Sure. Did you see like the, there was a lot of, I'll use the word consternation in Toronto that there were reports that the Leafs had offered him basically the same deal and he took the Nashville offer? Oh, see, I didn't see that. And what does that say about whatever he saw from the Leafs and in the room and the coaching and all of that?

because for a guy like that where you be looking at him, you go, this, Ryan O'Reilly, he's a winner, for him to sign with a non-playoff team that seems to be trending downward seems a little bit odd. Maybe he doesn't believe that they're trending that way, or maybe this was just the team that was willing to give him a fourth year and you know what? Grab it while you can. Yep, sure. But yeah, again, to what point?

Or to what end I mean? Like what's the point of... Well, except that unlike some of the other teams we've talked about, you just get Nashville into the playoffs, they've got a goalie that gives you that puncher's chance. And not to say that, I mean, Aiden Hill has proven that any goalie can be that guy, but I like my odds with UC Saros a lot more than, you know, Villay Huso or whoever else.

Now, if they trade Soros too, which there's still... rumblings about boy. Yeah. And like, again, it's, you got to sign somebody. Like, you know, if they didn't sign these contracts, I'm sure they'd be a mile below the cap floor. But, yeah, I'm just looking around here going, are we really, this is what we're doing? They also get Luke Shen, Nashville, which, again, doesn't, love, love it for Luke

Shen. Like, I said, Shinn. Classic, you know, you know a contract's bad when everybody's like, yeah, good for him. Yeah, but you know what, he, he, this guy's playing for like under a million bucks, like years now. Yep, for sure. He has a good year in Vancouver, goes to Toronto.

I'm telling you, man, if you, you want to make money on your next contract, go to Toronto. It adds a nice multiplier. Absolutely. You know, a bunch of stories about what a great duty is. And, yeah, go, go get the highest dollar value you can get anyway. anywhere, absolutely. But again, not the sort of move that you would think of, but guys got to go somewhere, right? I mean, look at, look at Rakogutus, right? He's the big playoff warrior. Yeah. Had the crazy beard and everything, and he ends up going to Anaheim, who Anaheim's another team that a lot of people did not like what they did, although. Justifiably so, I would say. I think, I feel like Anaheim's a case of like, yes, you've got the money. Yes, you can spend it, but. I don't know

Yeah One last thing on Nashville here I'm looking at their depth chart right now This is fucking This is an insane depth chart First line This is according to Cap Friendly

First line O'Reilly between Philip Foresburg Okay, it's pretty good It's not a great top line But that's solid And whoever Luke Evangelista is Believe Was a supermodel

in the 90s? That sounds right to me, yeah. Second line, Cody Glass between Gus Nyquist and Colton Sizzins. I don't feel like I need to go any deeper than that. That tells you everything you need to know. Yeah, I'm not snagging my playoff tickets right now, but... Nope, nope, nope, nope, you can't be doing that.

Truly, like a flatly astonishing. Death chart. Yeah. Gus Nyquist, second line left wing. I guess he's beating out Yakov Trennan and Philip Tomasino for those, for that gig. Aye, aye, aye. Good luck. The defense is fine, whatever.

Yeah, no shit, man. And the goaltending is good. So. The goal tening is good. And it has to be. Theoretically at least. Yeah. And then, yeah, the only other team I wrote down where it's like, what are they

doing was indeed uh uh uh uh uh uh uh

uh yeah Alex Klorin what was it four years six plus million yeah something like that I don't again like it's that's one of those contracts

we've said for a bunch of teams hey you know it's not so bad because if it doesn't work you you've got an asset to flip to a contending team and but with the four years I don't know again you got to have somebody and you got young players coming

in and you got to have somebody for them to learn from and all that stuff. But that's a big bite to take. So I didn't love Anaheim. Totally, yeah. Do you want to say anything about the Ryan Reeves contract? It's good, right? Yeah. I mean, I don't love it.

I think I don't hate it the way that a lot of people seem to, like just completely, you know, he'll be a popular player. He'll come into the room. if it doesn't work, you send him to the minors, and you can't bury the whole thing, but you bury a big chunk of it. He's not a good player. I mean, you put aside the intangibles and dressing room

and all that stuff, he's not a good player. So how do you fit him into the lineup? And Jonas had a thing at the athletic where he looked at all of the stuff the Leafs have done, and he's like, how does this actually fit into a lineup? Because, like, they re-signed David Camp, And a lot of people thought that was too much for him, but he's a pretty good dependable center.

You don't want him necessarily being your third line center because he doesn't do enough offensively, but defensively as a shutdown guy, you can put him on the fourth line. But then do you put him on the fourth line with Ryan Reeves? You wouldn't think so. But you can't move Reeves up to the third line. So how does this all click together?

Look, he'll have his moments. The guy's played a lot of playoff games. He has not been one. He's not a guy that just gets staple to the press box every year as soon as the playoffs start, although he tends to find his way there eventually. I think it's likely to be, remember game one against Tampa a couple years ago where they put Simmons and Clifford in the lineup and Simmons didn't do much. Clifford got a major and got kicked out of the game and we just basically never saw either

guy again. I could see that being the case again. But also, it's a million bucks a year. You can bury it. I don't think it's catastrophic. beyond what it may tell you about what direction Bradshaw living was going and the Domi and Bertuzi signings is a nice counter to that.

Yep. You know the problem I always say about the least? They're not hard to play against. That's it. No, if only. Frankly, Domi and Bertuzi, like, those are two guys that are kind of hard to play again. Especially Bertuzzi.

I do feel like, yeah, especially Bertuzi, I do feel like, the other thing with Max Domi, I tweeted this. I love the fact that Tidomi's kid is playing for the Leafs. Like, I'm sorry. I just, there's pictures of like Tideomi when he was with the Leafs with like his little three-year-old on his knee. And now that, in the dressing room and stuff like that. And now that kid's on the Leafs. That's very cool. I will say that I do feel like there's a certain percentage of Leaf Fans out there that between the fact that it's Tideomi's kid and maybe looking at the penalty minute totals are experienced. a player that Max Domi is not. Max Domey, like whistle to whistle, Max Domey's not a tough guy. He doesn't throw big hits.

He's not a big kid. He doesn't fight very much. He does most of his tough to play against after the whistle in scrums and basically being a little prick to play against, which is fine. There's room for that in the NHL. But I do wonder how many fans are like buying the Domi jerseys right now and are going to be surprised to find out that this. that's not really his game.

Yep. But yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think, is there anybody else, like one way or the other I feel like really, not really? Yeah. It just feels like we're waiting on a lot of teams to do something. Yeah. And I was like, oh, do I feel like Colorado did anything? And then I was like, oh, I guess they made that Johansson trade like a month and a half ago or whatever.

Yeah, that's right. So yeah, it does feel like something's got a... Real quick, like, what did you think of the Tristan Jari re-signing extension in Pittsburgh? I think this is maybe not going to be the most popular take, but he was pretty good last season. Okay. You know?

And maybe a little too much money, maybe a few too many years given everything that we talked about that was going on in the the UFA market besides, you know, a few guys. But he was good last year. He played almost 50 games, like, and we're not so far removed. You know, it was only one season before that where he was a 920 goalie and played like close to 60 games.

That's fair. So I got, again, is it an ideal contract? No, but is it like the fucking disaster people are making it out to be I don't get how people get there. Another one that's Thumbs up or Thumbs Down. Connor Clifton to Buffalo. Yeah, sure.

Whatever. A lot of people seem to really like that and then other people are kind of like, it's not anything to me. Like he got. Take that 100%. He got, again, maybe a little too much money, but it's only three years. And like he's good, but he's not great. Like, I, you know, again, like, and this is a classic thing you can say about

basically every contract. In a year when the cap is $90 million or whatever it ends up being, people are just going to be like, oh, yeah, three and a third. Who cares? Whatever. This is nothing. You know? And so let me put it this way.

Would I rather have Connor Clifton three years, three and a third? Or Eric Johnson one year three and a quarter? I know what my answer is, you know? Fair. And it's Eric Johnson, of course. No, Connor Clifton all day long. He's a good player.

He loves Eric Johnson, folks. He's constantly raving about him. But no, like, Connor Clifton obviously is like, here's the thing. This blue line still isn't very good. And Connor Clifton doesn't, like,

raise it considerably, but he doesn't hurt it. You know, you put him next to, uh, Samuelson, off you go. You're in great shape.

That's all. Sounds good. And yeah, so that's all I have to say about UFAs. Do you have any thoughts on the one women's, not even a league, really, buying out the other one, just like fully purchasing? Very confusing story. I happen to be like with Haley, the night that it broke and was like watching her scramble to try to piece it together.

And she's had really good coverage. we all want to see one unified successful women's league. The NHL has vaguely promised in the past that if we were to get to that point that they would potentially become involved and lend some support, that would be very cool. This feels like a step in that direction, but a very kind of haphazard and clunkly handled. step and obviously when you've got people having contracts voided and all of that stuff it's a potentially

very unpleasant situation for some individuals so you just hope the best for them and beyond that you kind of sit back and watch and wait and see how it plays out because I don't think the women's

professional game in general has kind of earned the benefit of the doubt as far as how it's structured and everything plays out, but the status quo wasn't working. So I guess we hope for the best. The only thing that you said about the contracts being voided, I saw a lot of outrage about that, but I feel like maybe everybody's calmed down a little bit

because the explanation is simple. Those contracts were signed outside of the union structure that there will now be in this league, and they have to get, re-signed because you can't have a league where some people are union and some people aren't. But not all of them will. I mean, there will be legitimately people who thought they had a contract to play hockey professionally. And now will not. And some of those people have probably made life decisions and that sort of thing around that. So that seems. Yeah. The thing I don't like is

that they are getting rid of teams. Yeah. I, you know, I don't pretend to understand all the of how this is going to work. And I would be shocked if there were too many people who fully did. But, you know, like someone said, like, there's going to be a women's league without a team in Boston. Can that be right? And it's like, yeah, that is fucking weird. Doesn't feel like it. But, yeah.

I mean, I guess the thing is, if this works in five years, whatever. the league looks like is going to be vastly different than what it's going to look like in year one. And certainly if it doesn't work, it will be radically different. So it's baby steps. And look, I mean, a lot of the biggest pro leagues that you follow went through a lot of this stuff. You go back to the early days of the NHL and it looks a lot like this, a lot of questions and a lot of near misses. And so this is the growing pains. Let's just hope it is actual growth this time.

Yep. Um, then one last thing I wanted to talk about here is, uh, I don't, I don't remember the gentleman's name. Maybe, hopefully you do. Uh, puck do. Uh, puckdoku. Yes. That's right. The, uh, the immaculate gourd game that we, uh, that we did on this show a couple of weeks ago. Yep. Uh, somewhat made a website of it. It's, I believe it's just puckdoku.com, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Taylor Dixon is the gentleman. Taylor Dixon, there you go. Puck soup, listener and Discord member. There you go. It is out there and it is very fun. At the draft,

the baseball one was like the obsession. You've never seen, there's nothing more sports writer than a bunch of dudes in a bar putting their beers down because somebody just yelled out it's 11 o'clock and everyone is like refreshing to get the latest

immaculate grid baseball and then remembering some guys at each other. I'm terrible at the baseball one because I realize like I my baseball knowledge stops around 1996 um but the hockey one is a lot of fun as well and if you have if you haven't tried it out try it and then you will you will be hooked as well yeah the one warning I will give is that unlike baseball previous versions of the franchise do not seem to count in this one so you do not get What do you mean?

Steve Dushan should count as playing for Detroit and Colorado. He played for Quebec. In the baseball one, you can use expos for the nationals. Well, yeah, sure. What do you mean? Well, yeah, sure. You just said no shit for not happening in hockey. Oh, you know what?

I got confused about who any of these guys. Because I thought you were saying, like, oh. You thought I was doing my Winnipeg Jets? Dick again. Yes, that's what I thought. Well, that too. And then all Winnipeg Jets should count as Winnipeg Jets, but. Yeah, I don't, I don't agree with that.

Although, you know what? I do, I did have beef with it the first day I played it. Uh-oh. Where they were like, oh, a guy who signed like a five, like a $5 million contract or whatever in a 2016. That's right. And, uh, you know, whatever. I, I put like, uh, for the Kings or whoever it was, I put Luchich and they were

like, well, he didn't sign with that team. And I was like, well, that's bullshit. Okay. You gotta go. You got to, yeah. And also, I guess the one of the first ones, you had to name someone who played for Calgary in Edmonton, which is not a long list given their rivalry. Yeah.

One of them famously was Steve Smith. And, but apparently there are two Steve Smiths who played in the NHL. And so you had to guess. Uh, they've now rectified that. They've, they've put the dates of a career. Yeah. So just in case, like if Greg Adams pops up as a potential answer, some point you'll be okay.

That's right. Yeah, I actually, on today's grid, I guess this is a bit of a spoiler, but if you can't, if you can't pull this for a goalie under, mute it now. Yeah, that's right. Goalie under three GAA, I didn't know there were two John Gibson's. One had played in like the 70s and 80s. Yep. Yeah, there's quite a few of those double names.

Yep. And as with the baseball, part of the fun is getting the right answers, obviously, but then you get to see the percentage. of how many other people who got it right use that answer, and of course you want that to be as low as possible. Yes. So that you can then feel good about yourself.

I had one on the baseball one today of 0.06%. I'm very proud. I had a sub one in hockey yesterday, and I don't remember which one it was now. But I'm looking at today's Puck Dooku, and I'm sitting here, I'm really stewing on this blues coyotes crossover. Everybody else I got locked in already.

But what I like about... I got a 1% there, but there are... Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty that I'm just not thinking of. But what I do is, like, I just fill it out very quickly. I don't think too much about it. I just fill it out quickly, close the window, come back later.

Yep. That's the trick. I will say with the Blues Coyotes, I was surprised at who the overwhelming pick was, I think, because when you finish it, it will show you who the most popular picks, and I've finished it, nine for nine. I'm not bragging.

but, and I think the most popular is like a 67% and I, I'm not saying that isn't a name I would have come up with, but I wouldn't expect it to be the runaway winner. Oh, I just, I just thought of who it is. Okay. I'm done my, my, my immaculate gourd for today. Select. Done. Okay. We did it, folks.

There it is. We did it. Oh, yeah. No, I wouldn't have said that guy for the most popular reason. Okay, so you didn't get that guy. I was worried I had like inadvertently spoiled it for it. The guy I picked was 11%. And that's actually my lowest today.

So pretty embarrassing by me. Anyway, Sean, plug time. Find me at the athletic kind of shifting into summer schedule so I don't fully know what's coming when. Other than the plan is this week, probably tomorrow, we are going to reveal the results of the contest, the prediction contest. Oh shit. Now, 2,100 entries.

Yep. There are, and, you know, spoiler alert, statistically, you didn't win, but the fun part is always to see, like,

what answers wiped out the most people. We had a new record this year, first ever wrong answer to get 2,000 plus people. Wow.

And, and, you know, see how people did on the bone and all that stuff. So it's just kind of a fun way to relive the season and just remind ourselves that we actually don't know anything, even though retroactively you think you knew everything? No, you didn't. Yeah, and of course I had a perfect score.

Yeah, somebody actually did look up your score. I think you did well, but then you were one of the many people who got wiped out by the bonus question. But until then, you had been doing reasonably well. well hey that's all uh that's all you're looking for right yeah by which i mean by which i mean you were absolutely perfect and then for the bonus hundred point question you you put yourself which was i thought a little bit of hubris but yeah hubristic for sure um and then for me eprinkside dot com uh i i don't know what codes work anymore except i love epi works all the time

that'll get you uh three free months tacked on at the end of your annual subscription. So check that out. And, you know, now's the time to sign up. You get the draft guide. All that kind of stuff you can learn about all the players your favorite team picked last week. They're also good. They're all going to be superstars.

Every single one. Isn't that a crazy coincidence? Can you believe people say your team doesn't have prospects? Like, do they even know about looks up name, this guy? The guy you got in the fifth round? One of the times we watched him, he had two goals. So, think about that. How are you saying that we don't have prospects?

That's right. And then, yeah, patreon.com slash puck soup. We're going to be doing a lot more bonus stuff this summer, including next week we don't have a main show. So, yeah, check all that out. And, you know, we got a lot of stuff going on over there. Lots of stuff coming up on the Patreon and including that, when are we running the OUFL that we all? Sometime mid-July. Mid-July.

We did a... We're all flying back down to Nashville just to record an OUFL. Yep, we did an OUFL, me, Sean, the other Sean, Gurpadoomsky, all those guys. Chopin it up. Yeah. So, yeah, check that out. And thanks for listening. And we'll talk to you guys.

If you don't come over to the picture and we'll talk to you guys in a couple of weeks. See you later. Bye-bye. Bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nonsense.

Part two.