Puck Soup - Craig Custance

Episode Date: February 1, 2018

Greg and Dave welcome author Craig Custance to discuss his book "Behind The Bench," working for The Athletic and a great many hockey things. Plus, discussions about Mike Fishers' un-retirement, Jaromir Jagr leaving the NHL, best and worst of the All-Star Game, the Hurricanes honor the Whalers, the legacy of Gary Bettman, Greg's near Kid Rock run-in and much much more. Brought to you by Just For Men, Seat Geek and Health IQ!

Support for today's Buck Soup comes from Health IQ. Health IQ believes the best way to improve the health of the world is to celebrate the health conscious through social and financial rewards. So they use science and data to secure lower rates on life insurance for health conscious people, including runners, cyclists, strength trainers, vegans, and more. To see if you qualify, get your free quote today at health IQ.com slash soup or mention the promo code soup when you talk to a health IQ agent. So that's health IQ.com slash soup or mention soup when you talk to a health IQ agent. You'd qualify. You're healthy. You're like a guy who runs and stuff.

I don't know, man. Dude, I'm getting, I had to go to a doctor from my heart a couple weeks ago. Yeah. And I'm getting the results back. I thought that was going to be a way to get out of jury duty. Not so much. Because my appointment's on the eighth and the trial was supposed to go to the sixth, so I wasn't even a way out. But, but yeah, otherwise, I think I'm fine.

Yeah. But I'm, I went to the gym this morning. For the healthy among us. Health IQ would be the place to go. I want to mention also before us at the show today, the Patreon is rocking and rolling, thanks to the over 1,300 Puck Soup listeners that have signed up for the Patreon.

You guys are the best. Closing towards 1,400. As we've talked about, Magic number. Most Valuable Primate MVP, the hockey movie with the monkey that plays hockey. When we get to 1,400 Patreon subscribers, we are going to release that episode.

And coming up in February, another special Puck Soup podcast for all y'all. maybe an animated feature, maybe a podcast that doesn't have anything to do with hockey will be on in February, and then of course also the listener's choice. So you can head on over to patreon.com, p-at-r-e-o-n-com, and then you slash it with the puck soup, and then you go in there and you can sign up.

Again, five bucks a month for over six things. And you can scroll back, too, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, you can get everything that's on the site you can get. Because somebody was asking in the comments about the cartoon, and they were like, where is it? And I was like, well, you just got to scroll back. And maybe people don't realize you can, like if you sign up for February. You get all of it.

Yeah, it's not just February forward. You can go back to October at this point. She tries to cover up, but I've seen everything. I've seen it all by then. It was the Patrick Stewart on extras thing, just lest you think I'm a creep. So yeah, Patreon, Puck's Tube. Thanks for everybody who's a patron there. It's gone great.

By the way, if you just want to support the show and say, hey, I like what you do. You can even kick us a buck a month. And that's even great, too. Coming up also want to mention, we'll probably do a live show again at some point. I don't know where. If you want us to come to your city and you have a cool venue for us to check out, hit us on Twitter at PuckSoup Podcast. Yeah. To let us know if there's a place to go.

Still mulling over if we're going to make the trip to Edmonton for the airing of grievances. It's the venues that are hard to figure out because, like, obviously we know what cities have a lot of listeners and stuff, but it's always like figuring out where we're going to do it. Because, like, we wanted to do one in Tampa. But, like, I kind of came around on it late because I wasn't going to go there for work. But then eventually he was like, let's do it. And then we tried to find a place. So if you have a place is key, the place is very key. So if you're a listener and you have a place, it's not like your home.

Right. Like a bar. Although. Restaurant, whatever. I mean, depends on the size of your basement, really. We can do the Tignitaro thing. You ever see the Tignitaro? Yeah, I saw when S&L stole her bit and did that same sketch and she was really pissed off.

They did it on a Louis episode, no less. I didn't know that? Oh, yeah. Wait, so what do they do? Like, Louis C.K. would go to, like, people's houses as just by himself? Yeah. She was super pissed up. Boy, that's like a double fucking whammy.

Yeah, boy. Oh, my God. There's a lot to unpack there. Puck Soup is also presented this week by Kickboxer Retaliation. Don't miss martial arts legend, Jean-Claude Van Dam. J-CVD. In the action-pack film Kickboxer Retaliation, also starring UlaiN. Musi, Iron Mike Tyson, and the guy that I'm pretty excited about being in this flick, the Highlander himself, Christopher Lambert.

The second installment to the reboot of the 1989 classic kickboxer franchise. returns with more adventure, more adrenaline, and more fights than ever before. Kickboxer retaliation is in select theaters on demand and on Cape. That's KAP, lowercase E, and the much-needed app for everything mixed martial arts. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly.

of hockey and nonsense. I'm Dave Lozo. You might know me from Vice Sports, maybe even from the Athletic, from the various websites The Athletic. Has. Okay, I'm done. And I'm Greg Wysinski of a website

that managed to link to a Dave Lozo article and to our book in the last 48 hours. ESPN. Oh yeah, which article was it? I did my lament about the United States not having a chance to win gold at the Olympics because we have to stay home. I saw that tweet and I thought about the thing I wrote like last year for Vice. I linked it. And literally my editor email me, he's like, I don't know if you want to like delve into that again this week because I was and I thought I was like, well, I kind of did it already. Yeah. But I could do it again. Dave's conspiracy theory for those who didn't see was that the NHL and the IOC were intentionally keeping the Americans home because they would have dominated Canada in the next two Olympics. It would have been a fucking massacre. An absolute massacre.

I was trying to pull the curtain back for a second, because we're going to talk about hockey journalism in a second, too. I was really trying to figure out how to crack this little column. I didn't want to just be like some fake Drew McGarry kind of like blah blah blah blah kind of bluster, you know what I mean? That sounds just like him. Yeah, right. Yeah, someone chopped.

But then it occurred to me that like there's three types of teams in sports. There are champions. There are teams that are defeated for championships. And then there's a third team, which is the team that never got a chance to play for a championship because their season was ripped from them by greedy bastards. Like the expos. Like the expos. If you go back to 2005, and I did, I think the Red Wings, the Devils, and the senators might have all had a legit shot of the cup in 2005. In 2005.

I thought the Rangers had one in 2013 coming off the 11-12 season. without the Yeah, sure. So, those types Those types of teams And then I realized that fucking team, like team USA,

if we don't win a cup or win a cup If we hope There's a lot to take in there If we don't win a cup By that I mean a World Cup If we don't win a gold medal In the Matthews Eichel

Jack Hughes era I will look back to this year And be like, this was the fucking window Like without question Oh sure You're in Puck Soup by the way Just realize I didn't say that

Like the confluence of the Patrick Kane, Phil Castle, Ryan Suter. Ryan Suter. Come on, man. He plays minutes. No, I know. It's just so funny that like when you're ripping off the names of the best U.S. players and the third one is Ryan Suter. It's like, oh, that's why we're not. Well, someone's got fold the laundry ball while Gossus bears up the ice. And then you got Snyder and Quick.

And then now all of a sudden you have, what's the thing that we've been missing since 1998? Oh, that's right. Centers. We've got centers. Missing a lot of things. So this was the year. Like, fucking rollout fucking fucking, fucking. Matthews and Cain, Eichl, and Phil. And then there's not a single moment in those games when you're like, oh my God, we have to win one-nothing. That's my Dan Baal's my impression.

We have to win one-nothing. We simply don't have the weaponry to compete with the mighty Canadians. Literally, when you go back and think about all the close calls, like the year they bet they lost one-nothing, and you're like, man, they almost tied it when Paul Stassany nearly scored, and you're like, oh, right, Paul Stasson was there. That's what I'm going to go. I look back at it, man, like, 98.

might have been the best team until this 18 team that doesn't exist. Like, up the gut, Modano, Roanick, and are in their prime. La Fontaine is not, but still LaFontaine. Richter. Schneider

and Leach on D. They didn't have a lot. I mean, Kachuk might have been, Kachuk and Hall on the wings. And then, and then, but the rest of the, the reason I would give 18 almost of the advantage is because I think our D is a lot more mobile. You put Seth Jones, Werensky, Gosses Bear, and a bunch of others.

Got Carlson back there. I think that's, like, fucking, the, the 98 team by Keith Carney and Darien Hatcher. R.D. is still a little suspect. That's a little. It's a little. It's, you know, like, again, when the third name is John Carlson. Do you think that Besser and McAvoy would have made the team? Because remember, the selections are made mid-season, and both those guys were having incredible rookie seasons.

I mean, without looking at the defense depth, I like to think Charlie McAvoy would be there. Besser. Yeah, I mean, say, he might have been a reserve. I mean, well, wait,

when's like the cutoff date? Because, like, Bester probably would not have been at, like, the summer orientation stuff, right? They would announce, the January 1st. Oh, right,

that's right. That was doing it at the Winter Classic. Yeah. Yeah, he would have been, he would have been there by January 1st, but he would have been one of those guys

that, like, remember when Andy Green was one of the defense when that wasn't invited to the thing when they had such crappy defenseman, like, I feel like Bester

would not have been invited and then he would have been invited, and then he would have been picked, right, in January. I remember when I did the story on Mike Green this week about the possibility of him going back to Washington, and it's still amazing to me that in 2010, like, fucking Green has back-to-back seasons of 70 points. He scores 31 goals in his season, and Canada's like, but you probably don't play defense.

I mean, dude, that's frigging John Klingberg now. Yeah. It's the same argument over again. John Klingberg, he's got like an 11-point lead on the second closest guy or the next closest guy in the points. Yeah, but he doesn't kill penalties. Ah, what are you talking? In his own zone, though, does he get a...

No! No! No! We're not doing this again. Yeah, don't kill penalties things, a great argument to make until you realize that Datsook won like 100 Selkees by not ever killing a penalty. I was at the All-Star game, they do that thing where they put the teammates together in the same little pod. So they both interview at the same time. Oh, like a Media Day.

Yeah, media day. So they put Klingberg next to Sagan, and we were asking Sagan, like, what's the deal with Klingberg? Why is he so much better this year than other years? And he's like, yeah, he really knew how to defend himself now. Like when somebody comes and steps to him, like, he really knows how to, like, take care of himself. I'm just looking over this wispy fuck next to him. You're like, you know. I could take him.

Yeah. Like, this guy. Really? But it sounds good. I think Hitchcock, I think Hitchcock did a real, a real good deal in making Klingberg better. I think he kind of sat him down from what I gather and talking to Klingberg and said, you know, you know, Alex Peter Angelo and St. Louis, who everybody's blowing this year as being a Norris guy. Yeah, I know him. Hey, would you like that?

Because here's the secret. How would you like to be that? How would you like to be that? But you actually put points up on the scoreboard. Right, right. But you're Swedish, some people are going to think you don't play defense. All right. There's something we have to talk about in hockey journalism,

which is one of our favorite things that's happened since the last show. That's fucking great. That's so great. Mike Chambers is the beat writer for the Colorado Avalanche at the Denver Post. Denver Post. There is also another outlet that covers the avalanche. You may know it as the BSN Network, B.C. Sure.

Yes, B.S.N. B.S. The Bichin Sports Network. Right. The Boulder Sports Nuts. The Bajingo sexy nuggets. So Adrian Dater, who used to work at the Denver Post, works there now, and I believe

Dater was lamenting the fact that he was not invited to be in the Colorado chapter of the Professional Hockey Writers Association, which then sparked an interaction between Mike Chambers and the good people on Twitter. Well, what happened was the PHWA had like a mid-season award thing. And you people voted on it.

And you came up with your top threes. And instead of putting Alex Ovechkin twice for something, we actually left him out of the heart trophy, which I thought was pretty inventive. Yeah, he's fine. He can not be a finalist. It doesn't matter. But Dater was like, you know, I didn't get to vote. And you know, whatever, cares, fine. You know, you want to vote. You're not voting. That's fine. I get it. And then a guy replied to him and said it sat, some guy named Bill, Bill Breyerle, at least said, Bill Braskey to Dater and the PHWA.

It's sad in associations like the PHWA, which should advocate for new media and progressive opportunities for writers to turn their backs on former colleagues and deserving new entrants in the field. And then he cings Mike Chambers on the tweet because, you know, you always got a tattle. You always got to do that when you're on Twitter. Mike Chambers, you should support membership for BSN writers. Now, at this stage of the conversation, Mike Chambers does not need to get involved. He just be like, whatever.

Yeah, some guy with... You're like, hey, decisions or decisions. Right. Some guy with 30 followers is yelling at Adrian Dater. Who cares what this guy thinks? Exactly. Or you can go the other way. And you can quote tweet him.

And now there's two tweets. The first one's decent. But it's really the second one. That's the best part because another guy comes in and starts complaining about him chirping at his peers being angry. And he says, and I quote, please come chirp to my face and I'll show you hockey. Whoa. Not on Twitter. That's almost a Bobby Benia.

I'll show you the Bronx that he once said to a Mets reporter. I'll show you hockey Not on Twitter, just you and me In person You'll have to sign a release And then we'll be good Need to be legal MMA is legal

Hiding behind the computer stinks pal I'm all about hockey and its code Now here's here's my overall take on this I don't really care about a guy Getting mad on Twitter and wanted to fight somebody else I really don't care about that part of it Right Like there's definitely times when you've been on the internet

And wanted to fight people You're just like, fuck, Gary, I'm meeting, meet me somewhere. It's kind of a miracle I haven't ended up in a charity boxing match yet. Right, right, for sure. The thing that makes it funny for me, it's not even qualifying it by saying MMA is legal, because clearly that's the way he wants to fight by saying that. He says, I would like to put you in a takedown chokehold. It's the fact that he says he respects the code.

It's the fact that he wants to fight this guy because this guy is criticizing other hockey writers, his teammates that he wants to stick up for and fight because of the code. that fuck like the code is stupid in the context of hockey where there's actual violence and hitting the code for the professional hockey writer association which i'm not a part of anymore because as i tweeted i lost a fight to a guy on twitter so i had to get kicked out i was excommunicado and seriously like that tweet is and he's it's still up too i give him credit for leaving it up but um you don't have to necessarily fight people because people in hockey fight each other for a reason by the way ph w a big wig Craig customs on the

the show today. You just talk to him about it? I did not, but I was at the HWA meeting on Sunday morning at the All-Star Game in Tampa. Oh, was he there? Chambers was not, but he was there in spirit because occasionally during the meeting, you mean if you're talking about like, be like, yeah, so obviously, you know, they should really give us earlier access to the players during Stanley Cup final weekend. I think it would really improve the coverage.

Or we could threaten to put them in it in there. I'll show you hockey. It was, he was there in spirit. I had one, I had one member of the PHW, the exalted PHWA, the exalted PHWA come to me and say, wish, you know, it's times like these that I really lament the loss of puck daddy, because I know that you would have written about this chamber's thing the night. Oh, yeah. Like, you're right.

I mean, it happens so late, too. I remember, like, checking my phone, and then, like, for the next hour, my phone was just people I followed quote tweeting it with various jokes about MMA and stuff. Oh, God, it was so good. It was so great. It was a great tweet. It was fantastic. The big news is we did the show today. The big news.

The big news. Quote unquote. Oh, well, I don't know. Brian Lawton, former general manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning, said that it's the kind of move that makes Western Conference GMs have to think about how they're going to combat it. Mike Fisher unretires to join the fourth line of the Nashville Predators. Look, I've always said this to you. And I've never said this publicly, but I've always said this is whenever you can use team money, time and resources to coax a 38-year-old man who hasn't played hockey in eight months out of retirement to play on your fourth. line, you have to do it. You have to.

By the way, when the press conference was announced, I thought it was going to be something bad because obviously wasn't a trader signing because McKenzie Freeb and nobody had it. So you knew it was like something because the GM and the coach are there. I'm thinking like someone's sick, someone's got a health issue. And then like my timeline is like, Mike Fisher's back. Yeah. Which is weird because usually the players that are close to retirement that Dave Poil signs are because they have raging drug problems.

Who's that besides Mike? No, you know, he had the Ribeiro thing. It was always like the halfway house of reformed addicts, you know. And now Mike Fisher's like the J. Cutler of Hockey where his wife was like, get the hell out of the house. It was the greatest thing ever. Like he was at the press conference today. And he's like, yeah, you know, Carrie, she's always kind of saying and really encouraging it. She was always coming to me and being like, when are you making a decision?

Encouraging the decision. You think about it yet? He's like, yeah, she was like really all for it. She was super supportive. And that's his, while he's saying that the rest of the world is like, dude, she wants. wanted you out of that house so quick. She needed her freedom. She thought she missed you when you were on the road.

It turns out not so much. A little too much Mike Fisher in the house. He drops like a ring ding on the floor and he gets a mop. He's like, look, honey, stick handling. She's like, that's great, Mike. He's like, quick, come here, come here, come here, come here. What, what? Look what I just did in the toilet.

I haven't done one this big since 1999 on the road in Winnipeg. This is amazing. Well, there's no, there's no Winnipeg. Mike, I was really hoping to watch a little bit of E entertainment. we turn it off for each-all network for a second. Just a few more minutes, honey. I think they're going to get around to that Winnipeg game. I've been waiting to see the highlights of.

This Brian Lawton guy's pretty smart. He's really big on fourth liners, honey. But for real, like, if you haven't heard, like, this wasn't a case where, like, Mike Fisher's like, hey, I'd like to get my name on the cup. I understand you guys are pretty good. It was the Predators coming back to this retired player who basically, like, I mean, according to him,

like, Jesus said, fucking don't play anymore. And then he said, all right. Oh, he put it on Jesus? Well, no, no, no. When he retired... I know he's a jesusy guy. He's very jesisely. When he retired it, it's like farewell letter to the fans, he's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. My journey. Blah, blah, blah, blah, god's path.

And, like, the insinuation is that he probably prayed on it. And, you know, the magic bearded man in the clouds said, Sure. Do not play hockey if, Mike Fisher. Come home to thine wife. And then he... God's got a fantasy hockey team. And at some point...

He's fine with a retirement. I mean, listen, I know Roman Yose has got it kind of an angelic face, but I did not think that Mike Fisher would think he was an emissary of the Lord. I just don't understand why they feel like they need him. Like, they're so good. I know why they need him. Why? Because Nick Benino has a negative 89 coursey five on five.

What's Fisher going to be? What's Fisher going to do? He's going to be all right. He's 37 years old and hasn't played in eight months. You could try them out there for eight to ten minutes. He's probably good in the room, too. Maybe it's a room thing. The leadership is like, we need them back in the room.

Oh, so you're saying P.K. Suban's not a leader. Is that what you're saying? Oh, you know what was the story that didn't come out at the All-Star game? Something about Kid Rock? No, I... I don't even know I should tell this story. I guess I should.

We can delete it if it doesn't. I'll tell the story. Let me get the P.K. thing out first. P.K. Suban was at the... Played in the first game, the Central versus the Pacific. The Pacific uniforms, by the way. Chef's Kiss. All white, all white, all white,

perfect. Yeah, they were great. I love them. I know that you and I have a deep disagreement about this. You and most of the world, but yes, go ahead. The white ones are the best of the four, for sure. Oh, no, I liked the Atlantic ones, too, the blue and the yellow. Oh, my God.

Only 90s kids would like those uniforms. You know you'll be, you know you're a 90s kid. If bright blue and yellow combining on a hockey jersey makes you nostalgic. Have you ever had a surge? Click. Do you like these? uniforms. So Suban lost in the first game. The entire team comes out to the media availability. And then I just wanted to find out what he thought about the jerseys. Like as the NHL's leading fashion plate, like what did you think of these all-weight jerseys? Central was the, oh, the black ones, right?

Was the kind of Team North America-ish jerseys. Right, right, right. I wanted to find out what he thought of the So me and all the National writers and some other people are waiting by this one media pod which is a, you know, a podium or whatever for PK and we're waiting, and we're waiting, and we're waiting, PK's on his way, waiting, waiting,

PK's been delayed, waiting, waiting, waitin, all right, he's on his way now, wait and waiting. We wait for Suban to come out and do this little media, whatever the fuck, through the availability of the other team that lost in the second game. No shit.

So like the Metro Division guys. Like an hour? Like fucking we're wait. I'm looking over like Josh Bailey and John Tavares are there already. I'm like you guys literally played like 15 minutes ago. So Suban probably was about 45 to 50 minutes before he came out. Why? Who's that?

No one asked. Oh, really? But I asked him for his question. I'm like, hey, as the leading. fashion expert of the NHL, would you think of those jerseys the Pacific Division were in? You got a kiss up at the beginning of the question. That's smart. And to which P.K. said, I think all the jerse is great. Because P.K. Suban, in case you don't know this, is no longer that interesting because it's not a brand. I mean, to be fair, though, like, I feel like

PK was never really super... He used to trash talk more. Like, he used to be a little bit more edgy. I mean, I know, we saw the Listerine thing. But, like, I don't know. He was always... He was always thoughtful, but, like, he was never, like, edgy. You know, he's never, like, controversial. I think he's gotten super, super reserved since he got that marketing firm in L.A. How long ago was that? That was at the L.A. After the L.A. L.A. was a year ago.

Anyways, the other story I'll tell. It's because it's great. So, as you know, I wrote about the Kid Rock thing for ESPN. And the NHL, God bless them. Talk to me for it. I got their side of things. Turns out having your All-Star game the same weekend as the game. Grammys severely limits the pool of people that are available to you.

No, it doesn't. You have 30 years worth of musicians to pick from. Having all the great ones that they're not going to get anybody at the Grammys anyway. And also, fuck off. The money that you have to spend is also a factor. Oh, that for sure. Yeah. But do you know what the Kid Rock fee was?

No. But I do know this. Couldn't be much. So I did an interview with Kevin Weeks for ESPN and I, the other podcast. Weeksy. And I was going back with the NHL Network. They're like, yeah, well, here. It's Sunday, it's day of the game.

Why don't you come to the arena at like this time and you can come talk to Weeksy there? I'm like, that's a great idea. So I needed them to come and meet me at the security gate because it was actually earlier than the media was supposed to be there. So I come inside and the guy from the NHL network is like, hold on, I'm going to get Kevin Weeks for, you know,

bring them over, we can do this in this area over here. And I come inside and I start to see like all these people kind of like surrounding the, Damoni entrance to the ice, like a crowd of people. And then all of a sudden I hear like someone tapping on a microphone and there's feedback. And then I hear like a guitar. Oh no.

And I'm like, oh, oh no. This is the kid rock sound check. Oh, no. And I see, I make eye contact with something from the NHL. And I'm just standing there like literally just maybe like 20 feet from the ice just waiting for the NHL network guy to come back with Kevin Week so we can go to one of a completely other part of the arena to do the interview. Yeah.

And I get surrounded by five people. people from the NHL and they're like you cannot be here and I'm like I'm I'm here with the NHL network I did not know this was happening I'm not here for any of this stuff I'm gonna be in to do an interview with Kevin Weeks in another part of the building I am I and I'm gone I am not staying is not I'm not you can't be here did they say why you're they're like they're like yeah they told me they're like later on I got started by three other people and they're like kid rock request that nobody's here no media is here for a sound check and I'm like I know but this is like this This is like after, this is, again, this is like, what, a week removed from me almost getting ejected from the W.W.E. event because I was trying to take a picture of the ring or something. So now I'm like, I'm running afoul of everybody. It's like they think I'm like...

You're a real problem. Yeah, I'm like, Hunter S. Thompson, just like gonzow journalist just going into places when I'm not supposed to be. So luckily during this surrounding by five NHL people. See, what I'm picturing is the Joe Pesci hit in goodfellas. Like, they got you there early. There's no witnesses. And I'm like, oh, no. And then Kid Rock hits me in the back of the head with the guitar. Like he's the hon. Ball with the ball, America. Luckily, the NHL Network guy came back in Weeks, we came back, and no one's ever going to say an ill word around Kevin Weeks. Most like light guy in the world. So then we go into an interview. I get the hell out of there.

But yeah, I happen to show up during Kid Rock Soundcheck, the one guy that should never show up during Kid Rocks. See, that's funny because that's something that's true. Like the NHL and NHL Network are two different, like entities completely. Completely. Like you have a thing with the NHL Network. The NHL doesn't know about it. So there you go. Mike Fisher back of the NHL.

Let's make a bet. Yeah. So the Predators are going to playoff. They're going to play somewhere between four and 21, 21, 25 games. Between four and 28 games they're going to play. I'm willing to bet Mike Fisher is a scratch for at least half of those playoff games, whatever they are. Would you take that bet? I'll take that bet.

He will be a scratch eventually when Lobuette needs to light a fire under the team, maybe like a game five of a series. You think they care at this point? He's been gone forever. They've all moved on. Hockey players are fucking, like, they basically just crawled out of the primordial. lose. Like, their brains are constructed in a way

where if, you know, you're like, this guy not play, he good guy, but not play for your fault. And then the players are like, our fault, we must play better to avenge this guy we like over here. Like, that's all you need to do. Couching's so fucking easy.

Why don't, the avenue, why don't even have a a Jack Adams award? How do you even get players to come on your other podcast when you talk about players like this? Players are cavemen for they do not know the... Me like Fish. We make fish sad with bad play. Fish could have been at the All-Star game. They were at the

Grammys. They've got 90s hits. You play bouncing around the room and everyone's happening. We have a very limited time between at intermission. We can't simply have a 50-minute song. Why not? You just jam out for like 14 minutes and... Oh, and then the ultimate thing Kid Rock, of course, was the fact that his stage broke

and one of the games got delayed because they couldn't get the damn screen to rise back up to the top of the arena. Was he lip-sinking? People were saying he was lip-synion. I didn't see it. I didn't hear it, it was the best. What do you mean? You didn't wear your Kid Rock shirt and sleeveless stuff and rock out? Oh no, I wore all my Confederate flag gear because I understood, I misunderstood. I didn't realize it was a pirate festival. Pirates! Giant racist festival. Kid Rock, Carlson, Lavalier, Van Slike. Oh my.

Yeah, it was, it was fantastic. Mike Fisher, back in the NHL. Good for him. Yeah, exactly. You know, what's he getting paid? There's no deal yet, but like, is he? He's on a PTO and then he's going to get a contract for the rest of the season once he gets in shape. Like seriously, he's hanging out for eight months. He's 37 years old, man. I don't know what they're going to get. He said he worked out a little bit during retirement.

I'm like, oh-oh. Like, why not, if you need like bottom six depth, why not just make a trade for someone who's in the NHL now later? No commodity, my friend. Yeah, seriously, GMs, man, like GMs, they love what they know. They don't want to go behind door number two ever. The Preds needed to change. And if you need to change, you know what you can use? Just for Men

Gentlemen Support for today's show Comes from an innovative shampoo Introducing Control GX The first gray reducing shampoo From Just for Men Uh

Just From Men helps men Look their best So they can celebrate Who they are What they achieve and how they feel And now reducing your gray Is as easy as washing your hair With Control GX

You're telling me before You once used Just For Men Even know you're bald Well it was November It was like While back and like when I have hair, it's very light. It's very fair.

Yeah, if you're a fair hair child. So I had the mustache going for like two weeks. Nobody knew. So I said, I'm going to go get some Jess for men. I put it in there. And just like that, I had a grown up adult porn mustache. But it was a mustache. You know, like a 70s village people like style like handlebar or?

No, like it was like a cell. Oh, like a cell, a top selikian. It was more celician than it was like, yeah, like it was in a celic. Freddie Mercury kind of vibe. It wasn't thick like Selex. Well, just think if you had Control GX back then, you could have shampooed your face. Shampoo in, rinse out, and move on, it's that easy. Most guys get the results

they want in about two weeks. Look forward to a smart look. Because when you look as good as you feel, then every date night, every meeting, every guy's night out, there will be something look forward to. So gentlemen, and ladies who buy products for gentlemen, get 25% off Control GX by using code

Puck Soup 18. That's P-U-C-S-O-U-P-18, the number at control gx.com. That's code Puck Soup 18 and get $25% off... Sorry, 25% but again, maybe it depends on how much you buy. 25% off controlGX

at controlgX.com. You know who might be in the market for some Control GX, my friend? Tell me. Yeah, I'm your jogger. I think he probably already uses it. You think he does at 45? I thought his locks and his main

were naturally dark. He's real dark for a 40th. David Poil for sure uses it. That was a pretty good transition from David Poil to Just for Men to Yarmier. I didn't even think about that. Oh, yeah, David, I mean, David Boyle's hair is not that color. You think that, uh, I bet if Yager had his mullet and had his natural hair color, he'd look like one of those guys that runs a masturbation camp on real sex, one of those guys

flowing gray hair. You always find the way to bring up the masturbation camp at real sex. How do you always find the way? Because I, I can barely work sports into this podcast. I think I probably saw it when I was a kid and it stuck with me as being like, maybe, maybe, Maybe I think real sex for me was always the first introduction to, hey, sex is kind of weird. Like you see movies on HBO and it's like, sex is beautiful. Then you see real sex and it's like, no, sex is ugly and weird.

And there's a naked lady popping balloons with her butt and there's a masturbation camp with a guy who looks like David Crosby. Yeah, there's a 55-year-old man getting an H.J. from a woman who wasn't his wife, all his wife was there. You can all learn how to have. Oh, wait, it sounds like Bain. Actually, I think you were doing Patrick Stewart. But all have orgasms. Touch your bellies with feathers. Logan, don't you know the best way to climax is via a hand. Cerebro taught me that.

Don't rob your woman. Touch you gently with this feather. And you too will bring her to climax. Then Batman shows up. That's not how I do it. I like to be physical and rough. And so does she. I'm a little fighting.

Yeah. I like that. I'm showing you that these people. in this town love eroticism more than you treat your lover delicately call it masturbation yeah I'm here Yager

has decided to go back and play with Plano in Europe mutual decision between the flames and Yager one assumes not the waivers that terminate contracts but rather the waivers that loan a player

take this contract you can borrow it for a nominal zero percent interest fee question number one is yamir yager done in the n hl i'm saying as a regular i'm not saying the one day contract he'll sign with the penguins no of course to retire

um i feel like he could still play but like there's just not enough teams that want him do you think he can like i mean one goal six assists in twenty two games seven points in twenty two games i mean he had 41 points in 80 games last year. Like, he's falling off a little bit. But, I mean, if you have a 7.22 game stretch

at 28, no one cares. But when you have it at 45, people are like, oh, he's done. You might be, but I don't know. And I know you can't really have this player now, because everybody rolls four lines. I kind of feel like he'd be great as, like, a power play specialist, you know what I mean? Like the seventh defenseman they bring for the power play, like, give him in force for minutes, but he only plays

in the power play, and then stick his big old ass in front of the Think about it. Like, think about how many teams would you say Yarm or Yager could be a winger on for the third line? Like Edmonton? Yeah. The Rangers at this point. I mean, there's teams. And I still think he has value in that sort of like...

He doesn't play too much power play lately, though. Yeah, I know. I think he still has value as that guy who could help young players, like, figure out the way of the way in the world. Like, I talked to Claude Drew about him at the All-Star game. And, like, Drew basically, I mean, basically... I'm surprised he doesn't wear, like, a pendant around his neck with Yager. picture in it who loves the guy so much and had so much influence on his life. Yeah, I, I'm gonna, I can't say never because it's Yager.

And I feel like we've said never a few times with him. And like maybe there's someone out there that would dabble in that again. I think he, I think if it doesn't happen just because he isn't get enough money. Like, I don't think he's going to come back and do like a PTO and play for like 850K. That's a real, that's the real thing. That's the issue. Like, I'm sure there's a team that I'd be like, hey, Yogs, come show up here at training camp. If you make the team, we'll give you a one year, one million.

contract. He's not Ruslan Fedatanko. He's Jeremy Yager. And he's probably going to make a ton of bank, tax-free, wherever he's playing in Europe or Russia. From what I understand, he went back to Clydno because he's trying to help the team he owns get out of Tier 2 because they were relegated a few years ago. Oh, I was going to

ask you about that because they were going to bring out Peter Nedved for a Tier 2 game. And I was like, why is Yager in Tier 2? Oh, they're, there's relegation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of fun. Like, he owns the team. It's like, if you produce a Broadway musical and then you left because you're a movie star.

And then the musical's about to close. And you come back and be like, all right, back for a few months. Here's, here's me. Josh Radner as the music man or whatever. That was a play you went to go see, huh? No. We were going to see Waitress, actually, with Sarah Borellis and one of your favorite performers.

Jason Moraz, Mr. A. Z. Jason Maraz is in it? Yeah. He's in for a very limited time. That's why I got the tickets because I was very excited. Like, Ruby wanted to see Sarah Borellis in it because she wrote the music. Wait, she's in it too? Yeah, they're both in it.

How great is that? I thought it was just like her. I didn't realize. I thought it was just her music. I don't know that she was acting. Well, she was in it for a while and then she left. And then it's funny, Broadway, the thing that works in Broadway would, I think, is very interesting. And this probably should have been the set up for a later ad is, is, uh, is, uh, is, uh, when celebrities are the leading person in the show, it doesn't matter.

If it's a musical, like a production, like, hello dolly or whatever the fuck. Like if Bet Midler is not in Hello Dolly for a night It doesn't matter You paid for the ticket You're going to see the understudy Because the people who put on the musical say We want your money And also we think our show is strong enough

You know, you need to see it If you go to see a John Leguizamo one-man show And John Leguizamo is not there It's not like they bring up some other dude Who's like You know Doing John Leguizamo's bits No, it's just not going to be a show that night

They should do that though Performing the role of John Leguizamo Tonight is Greg Washingi. Hey, what's the day? deal with growing up in New York. Am I right? For Mr. Billy Crystal tonight will be Billy West, the voice

of Stimpy from Renan Stimpy. So, no, so like, but then what happens is like, for example, Josh Grobin had a show on Broadway this past year. Something, something comets something. Sure. And then, you know, he does the show and everybody goes, sees the show, and then Josh Grobin's like, I'm super big and I'm not going to be on Broadway forever.

Here's the last day I'm going to do the show. And then you could see it, like, when you go on seat geek or, you know, and you can see, like, the money's like here, here, thousands, thousands, thousands. Day Josh Rubin's leaving billion dollars to go see his last show the next day. We will pay you to come see the comet, blah, blah, blah. It was like people walking around Times Square giving away free tickets to the Broadway shows. So occasionally these people come back to do the show to boost the sales. I don't know what the sales of a waitress were when Sarah Borellis wasn't there, but she came back and bought her little friend Jason Maras with her. Is he Carrie Russell in it?

Was she in the movie version? Oh, that's what I was. Yeah, she was that movie. I don't know why I know. Care Russell of the Americans, which I've never watched. Have you ever watched that? No. I really like, what's his face?

Matthew Rees, that's the other guy in the show with her. Cable TV has ruined me for, or pay cable TV is ruined me for, like, network and regular TV. I don't know. Like, I tried to watch The Alienist. Mm. It's just, oh. Also, I don't know if I have an appetite anymore for, you know, Russian insurrection into the United States and being all of an awe of that. Right, right, yeah.

It was like, oh, what a fantasy world this is. I can get lost in this imagination, this imaginative story, and then... Right. It's kind of like how Homeland got bad. By the way, Homeland is still on? Still on. I saw an ad on the subway for it. I'm like, that's got to be like, what, four years old at?

Their new season is like a thing where like the president, they're trying to like stop the president from doing horrible things. I'm like, wasn't that 24? Like, wasn't that the thing on 24? Isn't that life? Isn't that reality? Like, what is going on? I think I would bet dollars of donuts

Yager probably does come back maybe If I had to bet I would say no But I wouldn't be surprised if he does Your favorite part of Yager's legacy What is the thing that most of them? Is it the longevity of it? Is it the time he took an Instagram photo And posted it because he's being blackmailed by a model?

What was your favorite Yager? No, he didn't take the photo Wasn't that the actual blackmail photo That was the actual photo They were going to do And he like published it I still don't get that plan Man. Even, even, like, even as like a, like, from a criminal standpoint, like, wait, so she's 18?

Yes. It was consensual? Yes. Okay. Are you married? No. And your plan is black male, one of the most famous hockey people in all the world. And that's your plan. I don't get it. My favorite, I'll just go with my, my favorite yager thing was in 2010 at the Olympics. If you remember, that was pre-comeback yager. That was KHL Yager. And, uh, I barely remember. worked with 2010. And he played in the Olympics. He took a hell of a check from Ovechkin. But it was the first time we had seen him in a while.

And it was just like, oh man, this is this is a warm blanket, man, seeing Yager v. Yager, missed you Yogs. And I will say it's my favorite moment, but also it's my most melancholy moment because he doesn't leave for the KHL. Who the hell knows where he is on these lists? Like he totally completely passes Gordie Howe in games played. No, you know what's funny is when he was with the Devils and he had that really good year and all year, after every point. point he scored. It was like he passed this person, he passed that person, and he would always get asked the question, and he would always say the thing that I always thought. I was like, this is true. If he stays in the NHL, like, maybe something happens where he gets hurt, and then he can't

play the next seven, eight years in the NHL. It's obviously a tougher league to play in the KHG. But like, it's just in terms of like randomness of injury. Like, maybe he goes need and knee with somebody in 2009 or whatever, and then he can't play from 2010 to 2017 the way he did. And also not to cast aspersions, but I'm pretty sure the doctors in the KHL use leeches. So, I mean, he probably, you know, that's a whole thing too. And also, he lost, what, 82, 34, 34, 64, 68, 150 games to lockouts. Yeah. So if the initial never locks out, he passes Gretzky on the goal list.

He does. I hope we to read about that later in our question of the week, which was the Gary Betman legacy question. People that are mad at him for locking out the players. People don't like Gary Bettman. And keeping Yager away from point totals. So what was your favorite Yager memory? Oh, my favorite Yager memory. That hockey card?

The hockey card? Remember his rookie hockey card? It was him. Oh, he was on rollerblades? No, the one where he was in full sale mullet. They could barely put the mullet in the frame of the card. I mean, like, the mullet was like, you know, you can, like show people certain things like 99 and it's Gretzky. And like a mullet.

Like, everybody had a mullet, but like, now you think, Yager. Yeah, for sure. A silhouette of his head with the mullet is like the jumpman logo. Here's the thing I enjoy as of this moment is like say Yager never plays again. He's an all-time great. Hall of Famer, Mount Rushmore, you know, Stanley Cups. Mount Pockmore. One MVP somehow.

I don't know how that happened. Five scoring titles, all that stuff. But no matter how much everybody loves him, you will find a Washington Capitals fan who goes, it's different guy than we had. Who's that Yager? Not the one that I had on my team. Buddy, that was like 15 fucking years. ago. Your team wasn't going anywhere

anyway. He didn't like prevent you from winning a Stanley Cup. Just kick back and enjoy it. Like, come on. Yeah, it's kind of weird how the traveling Yager is those guys who dress up like him at his different places in the NHL. The Washington guy just dresses up like a cancer cell. It's very strange. I never understood that. He's like the least well-maintained

moor-groomed one. Like, why is he look so bad? He dresses like a cancer cell inside of a locker. It's very strange. Like seriously, like Penguins fans too were weird about the whole Yager leaving thing forever. Like, yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember when they were flirting with him coming back, and it was like a crisis of conscience. Like, what did we do?

Should he come back? And then he picked the flyers. I know. He's hilarious. He is. What a hilarious, dude. I guess the other question is now, in our book, the 100 greatest players in NHL is of all time and other stuff, blah, blah, blah. It's available on Amazon.

We had him at 18 behind Ovechkin Crosby and a bunch of other people. Yeah. I don't know where you put him. Obviously, it was myself. You down goes brown or votes combined. I do know that in our formula, the fact that he only had one heart trophy really was a strike against him, I think. Right. I think if he had like two more, he probably would have been like top ten based on our point system.

It feels low. It feels low. When you say it out loud, like Yarrimieryagar, 18. Here's the thing, though. Like, if you look at the point total guys, like of all time, you got guys like Recky, Francis and other players, Marcel Diann, that are top 10. in points that you're not necessarily going to put top 20 all time. So the point total makes it feel weird. But I think in the totality of Yagra as a player,

I'm definitely putting them behind Crosby. And I think when all said and done, I'm putting him behind Ovechkin. Yeah, the Ovechkin one's the tough comparison. Yeah. I feel like I would... I think I put him ahead of Ovechkin. Yeah, I mean, maybe...

I think... I still think he's not... I think he's maybe top 10. Like, if you, if he's not top five, as, even in skaters, he's not top five. All right. So you got Gretzky, Lemieux, how, or, that's four. Well, hold on. If you just go skaters.

If you just go skaters, you go Gretzky, how, Richard, Mario. Well, I mean, Gretzky, How Mario, Richard. And then you could, is he better than Bobby Hull? You know, that's, that's the real thing. He might not be. Belvo. Is he better than Belvo? he might not be top five all time

in skaters either and if you factor in Lydstrom if you factor in Haschik or Wa then you're pushing him towards the edge of the top 10 all time because I don't think he's better than those guys either but is it like because he won his cups early and then like went 20 years without cups

is it because of the one MVP because he happened to play at the same time as like Mario and Gretzky or could just be that like people are bitter about him leaving I mean I don't know it's he's he's He's a very hard player to figure because he's kind of the, he's a genetic freak. And, you know, there have been times when we've criticized guys like, I haven't, but the industry has.

Andrew Chuck and Recki is being compilers while, you know, other guys are just great players. I mean, Yager is kind of a compiler, but he was also really good. Like, after age 39, he outscored guys like Matt Duchayne and Ryan Johansson. Yeah, like he's... Like, it's insane. He really hasn't been compiling until, like, maybe the Florida years. Yeah. Because he had a really good year in Jersey.

He did. And then after that, it was kind of like... Florida, he was effective, but it wasn't like at a... He was fine in Florida. I keep saying this. Like, him and Patrick Marlow at the same season last year, and Patrick Marlowe got three years and 20 million, and Pyramur Yager's begging for a job on the streets.

And it's just... It's about perception, but... Yeah, it'll be interesting. If you want to hit us with your... We should write a book. Your Yager stuff, you could do it at a Puck's podcast on Twitter. Just to let us know you're there. All right.

I spoke with Craig Custins. friend of the podcast. Never heard of them. We did a podcast swap. Yeah. Which is we both hold our iPods and French Kiss is the way it works. I wasn't there. No, I went on the full 60.

More like a half swap. He told me that the interview went so long that it made up for Noah Hannifen only going the full 38. Was it a full 69? How far over did you go? And then Craig was nice enough to do Puck Soup. And I think you really enjoyed the conversation. A lot about the.

the ins and outs of his career and running the athletic. Just talking about me. We talked about you. We talked about a great many things, including his, and also, fuck, man, I don't want to bury the lead. His book.

Behind the bench. Behind the bench is great. For those who are unfamiliar with it. It's a book about Craig Custin's weightlifting where he shows you how to get like a really good upper body tone based on his bench presses. It's a, it's a biography of Pierre McGuire

and his time behind, between the benches. But between the benches was taken. Between the benches, it's like Avery's book. Yeah, it's like Avery's book. It's between the benches in Canada, but they were worried we wouldn't understand what it means. So it's behind the bench down here. No, no, no.

His book is, he sat down with a bunch of NHL coaches and watched a game with them. And in one case, I'm like fucking real jealous of him. He sat down with Ron Wilson and watched the gold medal game in 2010. It's the only game, only lost that he watched with a coach. And it's great. The book's really, really solid. You should definitely pick it up. And you should definitely tune in for this interview with Mr. Craig Custens of the Athletic.

Craig Custin's is the editor of the Athletic, Detroit. And then do you also have like a hockey title too? Yeah, NHL Insider. So did you carry that over from ESPN? I was like, well, what I'm like, I guess. Yeah, I'm editor-in-chief of the Athletic Detroit and ESPN NHL Insider. Now, when you have all the hockey writers that you're, at your publication.

Is it like a company, is it like when everybody gets their name on the law firm or there's, the company has a billion vice presidents? How many hockey insiders do you actually have? Um, well, people for the most part are limited,

not limited, but they're restricted to their city. Okay. Um, I mean, I'm, I'm writing, I would say I'm 50% Detroit in Red Wings coverage,

50% league. Yeah. Like I just did an Annembera story or, you know, if there's something that, because, You still have all those connections and sources. Right.

You know. You want to be known as the Detroit guy. You want to be able to branch out. I want everything. I want to be Detroit. And I also want to branch out. And if there's a good story to tell in San Jose, I want to tell a good story in San Jose.

When you were working at ESPN, where I currently work, when you would get a hotel room, would there be power typically? Or is this a new thing when you work at the athletic and you walk into your hotel room and there's no power? There was no power in Craig's room. in. And it got hot. I thought for a minute we were in Europe where you have to put your

key card into the little slot in the front of the... I've seen those. Like, there's still those. But sometimes there's a switch. This is, for the record, where I always have stayed. Are you staying here? Yeah, we're at the... People won't hear this until next week's will be gone.

So they can't stalk us. We're at the Marriott Waterside, which is by the arena. I actually stayed up the street at the hill... I guess I don't know what the hell is. During the Cup final. which meant many dodgy walks back from the tiki bar located here back to the hotel. But yeah, we walked in there was no power. It was very strange.

Not even the TV worked. He'd figured this be something to be cognizant of, but apparently not. Well, then the guy comes to the door and he fixes it. And he knows he fixed it because he switched the switch or whatever he did. And then he's like, yeah, I'm here about the power. I'm like, yeah, no, it's fixed. The lights are all on. He goes, yeah, I know.

I flip the switch. I'm like, well, why are you at the door? Like, what's that conversation? He's like, marvel at me and my abilities. I'm giving you light. I'm a light bringer. No, like, thank you. I'm very appreciative, but I didn't know what to say at that point.

How much of your day is spent editing now? Like, are you an editor too? Like, you're an editor. You're the editor of the Detroit site, but like, do you actually, like, have to do a lot of editing of stories and stuff? Yeah, not, like, line editing, typically. Although I did, at the beginning, it was just like, I started the Detroit thing. and was the only employee there. Right.

So it's like, so I'm hiring staffers. So let's stop there for a second. You, you went, you founded it. Uh-huh. And so then what happens? Like, do you, is it like, is it like a major league when they have lists of people and you're going over the lists and you're like, what about this guy? And they're like, cross, he's dead, cross them off then.

Or did you know everybody you wanted to hire? I knew. Yeah, I knew who I wanted. Yeah. It was, it was a hard process because there's an assumption from a lot of people. people that you know and you get along with that they're going to be in on it, right? Right. And then you're like, oh, no.

Yeah. You're like when Vinnie Chase got rich and famous on entourage. And then the whole entourage is like, what about me? He's like, no, I'm just taking turtle and my brother. Right. Like I'm like, this person's covered with me. I only have five slots right off the off here. Yeah, I figured there's some other guy at a pizza joint back in Brooklyn.

It was like, Vinny, what about me? He's like, yeah, Lou, I don't know, man. I only got three bedrooms in the mansion. And they're spoken for it with E and my brother. turtle. And then it went the other way where I'm like, okay, as soon as I announced it's this person who I like will definitely do it. And then that person's like, oh, I love my job. The athletic. I don't even know what. Is that a Canadian thing? Am I going to have to sell bats to kids or something? Cleats? So yeah, so there was some of that. There was some of that.

And then, you know, then there was the no-brainer. Like it was like Katie Strang was working at ESPN and I'd been working with her for years, and it was like, hey, Katie, what are you doing? You in? Yeah, of course. And, like, those are the best conversations. How much is it, like, I don't know anything about the athletic outside of the fact that you guys want to put newspapers out of business. What, uh, right? Do you have numbers you have to hit?

Do you have quotas you have to hit? Like, do you have, is there a giant thermometer on the wall of your office? Right. Where you need to get to the top. of the thermometer in order to get paid? No. That would have been a bad deal.

No. But we do, this is different than any job I've ever had in that there's the dashboard or whatever that says, here's the story you wrote, here's how many people subscribed going through that story, here's how many people commented on it, and then the new edition that I, I mean,

this is all new to me. I mean, you're at a yespins, so you know it. I was in a cocoon. I was just like doing whatever I wanted. Yeah. And I didn't have to worry about whatever happened. Like, as long as you did good work, I didn't feel like there was a numbers thing. Right.

And maybe you feel definitely good. Is there a number you have to hit them? No, but you're just, you're always very aware of if a story doesn't sell or if a story. And also in the other category is what's called an NPS score, which at the bottom of the... What does NPS stand for, do you know? That's a great question. It's like, what's numbers per sports? Right.

Numbers for sports. It's like PDO, like, or Kyle Dubas said he had to make up a thing to tell ownership. Yeah. He had the formings driven outcome. No, it's, it does stand for something because it's pretty standard. We should all stand for something. Right. Right.

And so what does it do? So at the bottom of our stories, and this is important if you're a fan of the athletic or writers, and I don't want to rig the system, but we do track, we want, if the readers aren't, it like this doesn't work because they're paying for it directly and so they wanted some way to dictate other than page views how people liked it so they have like emoticons basically at the oh at the bottom yeah and it says it was awesome it wasn't crazy about it wow it is and there's a algorithm that factors that in and other things and then it's like boom you got a 71 I so I subscribe to the athletic um because

he hired all the hockey raters. And I saw that at the bottom. Who pushed you over? That's always what I like to find out. Because people are like, oh, I was in it when Myrtle started it. Then it's like, oh, once you did. And then it's like, wow. That's a really good question.

It wasn't until Russo joined. Then I was finally like, I think it was when, I think it wasn't Russo joined. Right. Yeah. I love Mike's stuff. I thought, I thought it was like, I mean, I knew Toronto was going to be great and important to read. And I knew that like, I love reading James.

I love reading Delo and a little reading you. But when it was, I think it was Russo, because then I'm like to myself, okay, like, the only information I get about this team come from this guy. And then on top of that, he also gives me really good information about the league. Yeah. So I'm going to have to. Right.

I probably would have anyway. Or found some chicanery way to like go to your, I'm not going to say it. I know ways around paywalls. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it. I get emails. But you know how to get around. My people are.

I don't, first of all. Okay. Not yours. Yours are good. Yours are tight. Are they? Oh, yeah. Those walls are hot.

I would need it like an ice dragon to knock down your walls, my friend. But I get emails from people, like family members, people I've written about, or people in the league, hey, can you email me that story? And I'm like, I know what you make, GM of that team. Yeah. Just, yeah, I mean, it's, it's quite affordable, especially because you get discounted it here and there. Occasionally, we run out of promo. You know, that's, I signed up when he joined. But I was going to say that the little emoji emoticons that you're, you know, that you.

have at the bottom of each story, I gotta be honest with you. Like, this is a shocking news because I really thought it was like when you walk out of a Walmart. Right. You see this thing, they have like a little stand by the door. And it's like, tell us about your experience today. And it has like four buttons, much like your articles do. Yeah. And then I would occasionally just hit like the yellow one just to hit something on the way out. You ruined some guy's day. I know. I've caused massive layoffs apparently. So that's what you'll. You'll, Those things are for legit. They're not simply just so you feel like you're participating in something.

You're actually getting feedback on it. Look, people didn't like this last story. And it's only subscribers that can do it. It's not like, you know, you write fire the coach and everyone loves the coach. Let's go jam up the. Yeah, you're not getting ratioed on the athletic. You're not getting ratio. It's, they just want these.

So it's, and it's really, it's fascinating because these are Silicon Valley guys, right? That started it. They're tech guys. They want, everything's got to, it's very data driven. operation. Yeah. It's less than a journalist, you know, where I came from previously. So let me ask you this, because we just had a hockey summit at ESPN a couple weeks ago. And we, we were privy to some of the numbers behind the scenes of which stories play well and which, which teams play well. And it kind of makes you think, all right, so maybe don't spend as much energy on this,

maybe spend it on this because more people are going to read it and it's going to get sent to more phones because of the mobile thing. Right. And, but at the same time, you're in the back of your head, you're like, I just want to write, you know, good coverage and make sure all the, the, the, the, the boxes are checked and write good stories, when you are data driven and are, are catering to a captive audience that is giving you money. Right. Does your view change on that when you see what plays about what you write? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's, but you probably don't feel guilty about it, right? No, because you're saying, so, you know, a way to rig it is we're going to write every story is going to be about, you know, the captain of the team giving out teddy bears and everyone's going to go, oh, that's great, and that's going to give you a 90 or whatever. And so you can't do that. So you can't, like, but so I'll give you, for instance, what doesn't tend to work well would be like some sort of incremental news story. And like when we were first starting out, we were figuring out what we wanted to be.

And I didn't know that readers of the athletic didn't want, you know, they're thinking about bringing this guy up from the HL, you know, sources say or whatever. They don't care about that. They don't want the two paragraph. they're coming to us because they read a long. They want well reported or well thought out or something clever, something that they end up, they read it and they learn something new.

And if it's something that they feel like can appear somewhere else that they're getting for free, they're like, I'm out on that. Right. Like you can't be the fifth one in saying this guy's getting called up. Like, right. I don't care if you're an athletic reader. So it raises the,

so like there's times where I'm like, I'm not going to write anything because I don't have enough to write a good story. Yeah. and it raises the bar on what you'll publish. I've wondered about the tone and tenor of some of these athletic cities. Like, clearly in Toronto right now, it's been interesting because I think the year started, and everyone was expected to be a cheerleader for the Leafs.

You cannot come into the season and say bad things about this team. Expected by who? The fans? I think the expectation from the fans was that if you lit your finger and put it in the wind in Toronto at beginning the season, it was not doom and gloom. It was optimism. Here we go. Then something kind of changed during the season

where now I feel like what plays better in Toronto is a more critical eye. Like James just recently wrote about like the fourth line and the problems. I don't think that story is going to appear earlier in the season necessarily. So I guess my question is like how cognizant do you have to be

of where fans' passions might be? I always had this discussion with Dan Steinberg and D.C. About that with the Redskins. Like, the Redskins are either everybody's all in and let's go get them or let's tear the thing down. It's got to be one of those two things. So Toronto may not be the great example of this because James Myrtle could care less what the popular, you know James. Right. So he was for years, even when the Leafs were making the playoffs a couple years ago under whoever, it might have been Randy Carlisle or Ron Wilson before that, whatever it was.

He was saying this is, there's a. this is bad, this is unsustainable, and everyone was mad at James, the fan base. Like, hey, we're in the playoffs, this is great. And James is like, this is not a good team. So he, I think James is not writing. I'm not saying him in particular. I'm just, I'm just saying that if you're, if you're trying to get a subscription from somebody. Yeah.

And you better write about what they're, what the, so. That's what I'm saying. You can't be, you can't be contrarian negative nelly about a team everybody's digging. You can't be like Austin Matthews. Not for the sake of being, unless you can be like Austin Matthews is going to amount to any. anything. No. You know.

So I'll give an example. What I don't. So Detroit, all people care about is the big picture now. Is Ken Holland going to be back? What are they going to do with the trade deadline? You know, who's tradable? Which of the young players is actually good? And so if I write a story about, hey, they won two to one over Philly and overtime.

Yeah. Even if you're like, do a good job and say, here's how it happened. It's like, you know, cricket's chirping, right? So if you look at my coverage of the Red Wings when I write about, when I write, when I read about them is much different than maybe Russo on the Wild, or Aaron Ports and the Blue Jackets where every game is huge. Right. And so, like, even if you creep, if they creep within a few points of the bubble, it doesn't

matter because- Fans are even more mad. Yeah. Like, we need a lottery picture. Right, yeah. So even when I would just write, hey, I'm hearing, you know, they don't want to, you know, they're not, they don't want to make any trades. People would just be mad about it, you know?

Like, so, yeah, I would say I'm, I'm very cognizant of. Not what their opinions are because if I did, I would just be writing every day the GM has to go, which I'm not, right? Right. That's kind of the pitchforks are out where I'm like, here's, I'm trying to do a critical analysis of where this team is, what the next steps should be in terms of what a rebuild should look like. I've been doing a lot of like comparison. Here's what the Winnipeg Jets did and here are the steps they took. Here's what Ray Shero is done with New Jersey. And, you know, I have these contacts and I know well what happened.

and you know here's here's what the Red Wings can learn from these various rebuilds or you know it's it's endlessly amusing to me by the way that Jersey and Colorado fucked up the league because now like I'm reading all these stories about Edmonton it's just like look what New Jersey did right I'm like yeah New Jersey got your winger and now they don't have to worry about scoring on the wing like that's what they did well that was so like so I did like you know how Ray Sherro fast forwarded a rebuild was a story I wrote and it's it so people like oh great so all you got to do is rip off you know yeah steal taylor hall from a team and then win the lottery yeah you know there's more there's more to it but the what do you think happens with

holland and where did all this vancouver shit come from where all of a sudden like he's now linked out there what is that about yeah well i mean so this is how i saw this happen with in in detroit with mike babcock when someone starts getting towards the end of their tenure for their tenure. I mean, it's the same as free agents with the players. Like, there's not supposed to be tampering. There's not supposed to be, and all of a sudden, it's noon on July 1st,

and everybody has a deal done. It's like, wow, how did you, this is a very, you know. My favorite thing was the Matisselland deal from, when Tampa signed him away from Vancouver. It was literally like 12 and maybe five seconds on signing day. And they announced like a 12-year deal or whatever it was. It's like structured all three. Like backloaded.

It would literally take like a NASA supercomputer to turn out that deal as quick as it did. And then they sign them to it. That's the greatest thing ever. Right. And so this is no different, right? So you have, you hear and you get wind of stuff and it's never like, what doesn't happen is in this, I'm not speaking directly to Ken Holland, but it's not like Vancouver, Trevor Linden calls Ken Holland or whatever. You know, it's, it's, hey, let's, we both use this agent or whatever.

and I'm going to, we're going to funnel it through. And I think there's some smoke there. I wouldn't be surprised. Like that's typically what happens. And it gets out because now you've got a million people involved. The only thing I thought of was like it gets out because he wants there to be competition for him and to tell the wings. You think he's planting it on some level? Anytime I hear that kind of thing come out, I think it's always going to be to the betterment of the guy whose contract is up to let there be known that there's another team out there.

looking for his services. I mean, I don't know. Who the hell knows if the illiches want to keep them? I don't know. Like, it's not exactly been the best running for the organization. But then again, where do you turn? Because the guy they want's in Tampa. And unless they win the cup and he has a real change of heart,

he ain't leaving Tampa. That's the question. So the fans clearly want Steve Isamon. And I think Steve Isamon has a good relationship with the Illich family, obviously. I mean, it's so it's, but if you're, I mean, we're here. He has to win a cup here. Like, that, if you're a Red Wings fan and you, you really want Steve Iserman and that's, like you're basically rooting for the lightning to win a cup.

The thing that you want is to win the cup and then for him to, uh, you know, you hope that his ego is Babcockian in size and he wants to ride in and save Detroit. Like that's, that's the, like, his legacy is set. Like, what's your, if you're Steve Eisenman, what's your, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're, you, you're, I haven't seen the son in two months. You come down here and I'm sitting on a boat in five minutes. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's true. You got Stamcoast and Hedman and Kutcherov. Kuturov. You have the three pieces of the Trinity that you need here. You've got your Bergeron, Chara, and Golden here forever. And you've got it here for at least the next five or six years. Right. So you have, so what do you need to,

you need an owner that gets it. They've got that. You need a fan base that's in. You got that. A great city. And you've got every hard piece to acquire. So in other words, congratulations. Congratulations on GM Chris Draper, Detroit, what you're trying to say. Let's talk about your book. How did you, so for those that don't know, Craig wrote a book, would be behind the bench, between the benches. Between the Benches is my book about Pierre. Between the Benches.

Behind the Benches. Was did Pierre do a book on? No, that's my book on Pierre. I'm going to write one day. Oh, you are. It's called Between the Benches. My life. Between the benches.

Between the benches, colon, my life between the benches. That's it. When I get around. I like that. It sounds great. So it's an amazing book where you sat down. So let me get the title in. Okay, go ahead.

It's, no, I don't know. Behind the bench. It's inside the minds of hockey's greatest coaches. Just like, take your eye off the puck, colon, how to watch hockey by nowhere and where to look. Same publisher. So maybe that's just the thing. We use the same publisher. And they're big fans of wordy subtitles, man.

Behind the bench. Life behind the bench. Take your eye off the puck, colon. When the puck is coming towards you, and you're like, should I look somewhere else. You sat down with a bunch of coaches and watched games with them, which is such a cool and novel idea. But I guess I don't care about how you came up with it.

Because we all know, because you're a genius. How did you get all the coaches to play ball? So that's the question, right? I usually get the first one. I'm like, I don't know. It's a hard. It's to be like, hey, I want to watch games. Here's my pitch.

I'm going to sit down and watch hockey with a hockey fan. Oh, that's a good idea. Right. And they happen to be coaches. But how did you get them all in? And who is the toughest one are open? So it was, the, the back story is, I kind of had the concept, but it wasn't really thought out. And I approached Mike Babcock, who was in Detroit at the time.

And I, you know, we went in his office and I said, look, I'm going to do a book. I think I want to watch a game. It was very like, wasn't, wasn't. He's like, you don't probably expect me to, you know, spill state secrets. So you have where the bodies are buried? No, he was, he was much, he said, look. he's like okay I'm not against this

but you need a concrete plan and you need to have a vision for what this book is going to look like besides just you sitting with coaches he's like there's got to be because they're not going to play ball in the aspect or not because oh he means bigger like rander ideas

his focus was on making it good yeah that to me like it wasn't like he wanted to look good or he was like if you're going to do this and you want it to be sell and you want it to resonate with people

it has to go beyond just I'm talking to a bunch of coaches. There it is. And it's really smart. Like, it was great advice. Well, I don't know if you heard, but he has a degree in sports psychology.

Does he? Yeah. I mentioned it in there. I don't know if I'm, so anyway, so I go home, I think, you know,

and I'm like, okay, it's, he's right. And I come back and I've got a more, very, you know, we're going to be watching the Stanley Cup game-winning game,

but we're also going to get into the path these guys took to get there. Yeah. The, their philosophy. He's on leadership. And also just there's stories, you know, here's Marty St. Louis. You know, you've got to fight with him with John told him.

Like, there's going to be great stories that emerge. And so then Mike pulls out a pen and paper and he says, okay, this, if you're going to do it, it's got to have this coach, this coach, this coach. And, you know, he's, again, more not because he's like, these, who I want to be surrounded by, it's, if you're going to do it, do it right. You know, and that's kind of his thing. And I'm like, of course, yeah, I want to Joel Quendville. And it was like Claude Julie and Joe Quentin.

You know, like, it's all the great. You're like, Ken Hitchcock, that's a great idea, Mike. Yeah, I was going to get a, you know. So he's like, I'm like, I agree. We should, this should be the list. And I'm like, well, will you do it? And he's like, I'll do it. And I don't know if he ever, behind the scenes, grease the skids with these other guys.

But he was in and he was the first one to commit to it. And I think having Mike Babcock, so when I would go to, and then I happened, Dan Baosmo was between jobs. He was the first one I actually did, to do, because you have to, you have to, to do a sample chapter before you sell a book to a publisher. So Dan was actually great because I'm like, I don't even have a publisher yet. I needed a whole day of your time, basically. This may never, but here's the concept.

Mike's on board. And so Dan was big and he let me do that. So I had a sample chapter. This is like you putting a movie together. This is like I got Willem Defoe to be in the Florida project and now I'm going to start taking it places because now I've got a star attached, Dan Bilesma. Got Dan Bilesma. So right, so now I've got Mike.

So then I got Dan Bilesma. And then I'm like, I got an, it needed an agent, get an agent. And then he's like, basically you needed commitments. I needed commitments from the other coaches before they would sell it. Right. It's a really long answer. But so once you get, it was like a steamroll, right? So you get, you call John Torto, I'm like, yeah, I've got Babs.

I got, you know, this guy. Yeah, okay, yeah, you got those guys. Sure, I'll do it. Yeah. And once, then once, now you're in the fraternity now. You're like, you go. And so the only one, not. So Joe Quinville, typically.

doesn't do a ton of one-on-one. Yeah. Like that's, so he was, he was the toughest one. Not because he's not cooperative, but because that's the black, like Joe Quinville doesn't do a lot of,

yeah, because he doesn't want it to be about Joel Quinville. And I remember reading that, wasn't, wouldn't that a little bit more like straightforward, kind of like hockey strategy versus some of the other conversations that you had? So his was fast,

what ended up being great was everyone was different. Yeah. I was worried that it would be 10 chapters of, it was the greatest, moment of my life lifting that cup and there was none of that really and everybody had a different flavor and joles was awesome because we put in game six in philadelphia of the 2010 stanling cup final you were there right yeah yeah patrick kane scores an overtime we we watched the whole game and Joel it was like he was coaching it so it wasn't even an interview as much as it was let's go buff

yeah you're just yelling at the screen yeah f3 blue the assignment there yeah that's so like if you read that chapter it's and I don't even know what he's talking about like it's like literally he's like at three you know and it's like staccato he's like and he's yelling at the refs like you think scott, you know scott hard and he's yelling at scott heart and he's got PTSD basically as a so he's so and it was and that was very interesting because I now I know what joel was like when I open when I opened the book um I've telling you before like the the thing that pissed me off about it one that it's written so well so congrats I guess but The Ron Wilson chapter, chasing down Ron Wilson to watch the gold medal game in Vancouver

is such the great idea and an amazing accomplishment to have that in the book as a living document of someone looking back at maybe not the biggest failure, but the most notable lowest point of his career. Because he had a chance to do something that would live in the annals of history along with the miracle to win in Vancouver. over Canada. We both know. You understand.

But what was it, was it, like, was it uncomfortable? Like, what was the energy like when you're watching that game? It was, so that one was different.

So I, and Ron was really gracious about it. Like, everybody else were, like, I'm like, hey, can I watch the gold medal game with you,

Mike Babcock? And, you know, and sure, like, that's an easy pitch, I get on some level besides asking for a bunch of this time. Whereas Ron, I'm like,

maybe this is a moment that changes your whole life if it goes the other way. Yeah. and your legacy. And he's like, sure, yeah, I don't mind. You know, so I fly, he lives in Hilton Head, South Carolina. Yeah, he still lives there.

And fly down, he lives on a golf course, and he's, you know, he brings me in. And we sit down, it's, I mean, his whole, like, just walking in, it's like a, you know, he's a grandpa. So, like, there's bunk beds for his grandkids and a big player piano. Giant dish filled with candy. Right, right. Just grandpa, right. Like, that's what I'm in, you know. Yeah.

He had this cool table that I put my laptop, like, set up shop on. It was, like, carved out of wood and it was like a monopoly board. It carved out of a tree. Wow. Like, fast. Like, so, and that was, like, that was just, it was just fun to go into these people's world that when else are you going to see, like, this carved out, you know, Ron Wilson tree? Right. And, and so the problem with that one, I didn't realize, I said, so, Ron, have you watched, when was the last time you watched this?

And he's like, oh, I would never have. Yeah. I would rather drill out my eyes. eyeballs with a fucking real big drill than watch that game again as an American. Yeah, in retrospect, it was kind of a... The torturous moment. Man, what? Thanks, thanks, Ron.

So, yeah. So, and not only that, like, before we got going, I pulled up the roster. So we hooked, I had, like, the Apple TV where he, my laptop and it goes on his big screen. And I load up the American roster. Oh, just need to... Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Maybe you don't want to answer it.

How did you get the game? it's uh it's on youtube or so like i don't is it on youtube so that complete aside was one of the besides getting coaches of getting these games yeah getting those games right i'm like there's some few that i'm sure available for the n hl but like not all of them right not all of them and that was to the point where like dan bilesma i was leaving and i didn't have a copy of it yeah and so i're going to say i want a bit torrent to get the right i'm like email and you know people in pittsburgh did you happen to record it it was like i thought I thought this would be, so the league used to have, like, yeah, I got, I got, I have about two quarters of the game.

The rest of it is an episode of Battlestar Galatica that I unfortunately take over the game with. But the overtime's there. That's good. I'll take it. There was some of that, like, because the league had the vault. You remember, like the NHL vault or whatever? And they, right before I started it was like, oh, that no longer exists. Like that was my, I was just, like, oh, we no longer do the vault.

I'm like, well, does the vault exist in New York somewhere? It's got it. And so, like, there was one game I couldn't get it all, and the league ended up helping me out. Like, they're like, oh, that's awesome. We're going to give you access to this game. It was the Bruins-Kinnx game. Was that part of the multi-decade John Collins digitizing the games experiment? Or they just give you, like, a tape?

No, it was digitized. But I had to, like, put a password in, and I only, it only worked for two weeks. I'm like, oh, it's like renting something from iTunes. Yes, it was, so, yeah, getting the game was hard. In this case, but it was, it was, I downloaded it from. like the double iH somewhere and it had no it was it was like the raw feeds there was no commentators it was yeah so ron so the first thing we did was we load up the roster and he's just going over like he'd forgotten he'd like oh yeah you know jamy langenbruner was on him and like yeah he was a captain and

so it was neat to go over that and then the game goes on and this was ron was my second coach that i did and it's such a good game that we didn't say a word it's just it was a bat-shut great game It was so... And I hadn't watched it since Vancouver. He hadn't watched it since Vancouver. And we're both just on the edge of the couch, staring at it for the whole... Like, probably the whole first period.

And then I'm, and then I'm panicked, because I'm like, this is going to be the worst book. Yeah, because it's just nobody's saying, chapter two. Right, yeah. We watched the game, and then I got on a plate. Ron Wilson, brackets, silence. Who scored the goal for us in the third? Was it Preezy or Kessler?

The TIEGEL. The TIEG. The TIEG. It was Preeze, right? I remember thinking in that moment that this is going to be the ultimate comeuppance for what happened in 94 with the Rangers. Like, it's going to go right this time. Zell Pukin scored in game seven against the Rangers went to overtime and then Matoos scored. And I'm like, it's not going to be like that this time.

I remember thinking that we were covering the game in Presto. I'm like, this is the moment for me when Periz scored, he's a fucking devil. He's going to score and then we're going to win an overtime because now the hockey guy. are smiling upon me because it's all about me at all times and it didn't work out that way. No, but it was so as part of this, I would talk to these coaches and then I would talk to everybody involved. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, for those who haven't read the book, that's the cool thing about it. It's not simply just Craig sitting there with the coaches. It's also like you, you were kind of sidebaring it with other people that are, that are involved in the game, like Souter and people

like that. Yeah, so I got Suter and Periz and a couple of other Americans and they were like, at that point we thought we won. Like, you beat, you get the goal. We're going to, like, they wanted no break. They wanted to keep the game going. Yeah. And having, you know, actually having the break probably helped Canada where, you know, Mike went in and, you know, find out, like, his speech was along the line, you know, who's going to be the hero kind of speech and, you know, looking people in the eye. Because now you got, you got Miller playing out of his mind. You get the whole thing going in your direction. The Americans, like, they were, like, they just wanted to keep it going. And so that was one of the most interesting things was, at one point we're watching. And this is,

this is why the concept worked because it was, it would spur of questions that I wouldn't have known otherwise. And we're watching the feed going into overtime. and Ron Wilson goes to the refs and he's talking to him. I'm like, well, what are you talking to him about? He's like, oh, we were, I didn't know the format of overtime if it was, you know, four on four. Right. I'm like, probably.

That's good to know. So, you know, and then, again, so talk to Scott Gordon, who was assistant, you know, and he's like, yeah, so we're, you know, we're kind of in that, during that break, coming up with some strategy. And it was, so there was all, and almost every chapter has one of those moments. And you know, in the Canadian locker room, like, you know, Mike Babcock's like, execute apparition four on four. And our guys are like, wait, four on four?

Holy shit. Guys, we're going to have to come up with some schemes. Right. Right. So, yeah, and so, like, there was that moment or like the Joel Quenville, we're sitting watching and Joel goes, well, fast forward to where Jonathan Taves gets really hurt. And I'm like, what? Yeah.

Yeah, I'd know that never happen. He's like, nope, yep. He goes, oh, he hurt his knee. He probably wasn't going to play game seven. That's crazy. And I'm like, I was, I. And he might have one of the con, right, that year? Or was it, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, that was his year. And so, and so the neat thing about having these coaches, he goes, so watch, I send him out for this face off here because I don't want the flyers to know that he's hurt. And, you know, John, and now we're watching really closely. And he goes out and he kind of does a little bit of a slap and goes back to the bench. And he's like, you know, you can tell he's not engaging in battles. Yeah. And then, so he's like, so we didn't know if you'd be able to go game seven. And then there's like these moments you forget where, like, Jeff Carter just misses a goal.

like right after that, after Taves is hurt, you know, like, if he scores there, then the flyers, and all these, and that was one of the things, like, all these guys had these moments, and they were so close to not having them. Yeah. Or Ron Wilson to all, to have that award.

To have that award. Yeah. We're talking about the greatest American coach of all time and brilliant and didn't, you know, and it wouldn't matter to Kessel. He'd still be the greatest American player of all time, even without that moment, as he is now. Oh, Phil.

Yeah. We might as well finish, by the way, buy the fucking book. It's great. And also, buy as many copies as you can, so we can tamper down that Avery book

that seems to be selling pretty well for some reason. The Avery book, so I don't know if you were obsessive as I was of going to the Amazon hockey page and refresh it. Oh, I told it.

When my book first came out, I had a great run where I was number one for a really long time. And then I was like number two one day. And it was because there was some book that was hockey adjacent but not about hockey. some sort of like,

Buddhist book or something. Like, I've seen that one. You've seen that one, right? Yeah, because it pops up and I'm like, why is that one above my book? And so, yeah, and so I looked at it and I'm like, wait a second, what the fuck is this? I'm like, should I call Amazon?

Because it's clearly not a hockey book. Like, it was, it was cool. And by the way, thanks to everybody who bought my book too. It was cool to see that happening. But like Avery's book came out and just sucked all the air out of the room. Because it was number one for it. It was number one. Yeah.

And Ken Dryden writes a book. So the guy who wrote the best book. the best book of all time. Yeah. It decides to launch on the same. It was called, I believe it was called the game two, colon, me and the game. Yeah, me in this game. Me and this game.

Right. And then Avery's books. And I read, did you read Avery's book? I didn't. I will. It's all right. Like, it's titillating and whatever, but I mean, it's. I like Sean.

I know I'm very much in the minority here. Okay. Let me, I, I'm entertained by being out with, when I, like, have talked to him. I like, I like, have talked to him. I like, I like, I like Sean, too. Sean doesn't like me. That's the difference. Yeah.

Yeah. He, he, he, he, we were going to interview him at one point, Loza didn't want to interview him.

Yeah. Um, but I wanted to interview him and he made it pretty, he put some conditions on the interview that I thought were pretty atrocious. Really? Like,

like, like, like, like, and he's only, question number one. How great. Yeah.

He's, yeah, it's a fucking chairman mal interview. But like, he's, he's, he's, he's clearly doing that just to have a go at me.

And I wasn't going to play those reindeer games. But your book's better than his. The last thing I wanted to ask you is about the Olympics. Yes. Yeah. What do you think about the Olympics, Sands NHL players, and are you juice for them a little? Are you going? No, unfortunately, I would have gone had I stayed at Yahoo, but moving to ESPN when I did, their coffers were filled with the people that are credential.

Are you going? No, I would have gone if I had stayed at the end. There you go. So another magazine writer got. that gig. Yeah. They're going instead. Like, Steve Wolf's doing it now.

Oh, okay, good. Yeah, which is great because he's a great writer. Right. So he's doing... Better than us. Yeah, he's doing the men's team. Okay. And then ESPNW is handling the women's team.

Good. So I was very, as an American who's, you know, we've not, we're talking about that 2010 game. Like, this was the team that I was like, oh, we, yeah. Man, just, you know, we were beat down the center in every tournament. And I want to say we because of that. You could say we. We're American hockey writers.

And we want our country invested in the sport on some level. It benefits our careers, right? We want to sell it. And that's the grandest stage. Also, sidebar, to shut them the fuck up once in a while, then we'll be a nebulous dam. And I won't say it's about any particular country. Go ahead.

I mean, they've had a heck of a run. We're, of course, talking about Slovenia. Yes. No, and then you're right. I mean, it would have been Austin. and it would have been Jack and it would have been. So we did those rosters and you did one too. And when you sat down and did it, like I was unhappy with it.

But then I was always like, well, they're going to at the last second, like for even up until like three months ago. I was like, you know what, this is so stupid. They're going to, they're going to rescue this. Somehow there's going to be a, you know, Brennan Shanahan's going to meet behind the scenes with, you know, whatever they used to do in the lockout days. When it became apparent, this turned into an NHLPA bargaining chip for Gator. I was pretty sure that we weren't going. That was it. I remember that was a board of governors where he was so mad.

He came out and talked and was giving details about that. And I'm like, kind of cringe. I'm like, okay, that doesn't sound great. But I, so yeah, so I was kind of in denial probably. And then, you know, then we did those rosters and I was mad about it. And then they announced the actual rosters, whatever it was at the Winter Classic. And I called Jim Slater, who I had covered in Atlanta, who was on. the team and talking to him and hearing

the story about Jim Johansson, the late Jim Johansson, you know, calling these guys that in basically making this dream they never would have imagined happen. Like I got emotional talking to him. And now with Jim Johansson dying. Yeah. I mean, like, you know,

because I talked to Jim to, you know, right at that same time after talking to Jimmy Slater. And he was like, it was the best two days of my career at USA hockey was calling these guys. Because it was, it's this rag tag group. And like, what's more American than, like, that group now going out and winning a goal?

And, and like you said, I mean, like, castaways that never thought that, A, never thought they'd get an Olympic moment, but in some cases, might even get an NHL moment again or something, North America, based on how they do here. I just don't believe for a second, but if Ryan Zabalski or any of these goalies, you know, Brian and Maxwell or somebody, if they become Ray LaBlanc, you know, and we get close or they win a medal, like I have a very hard time living. That does not transfer into a job back here for them in some capacity as an Olympic hero. They'll be, and it happens all the time. We saw it in other Olympics. There was Switzerland had a guy that just lit things up and we're like,

this guy's going to be a star and then we never. Oh yeah, I remember you're talking about. You had, like people had jerseys. It was a good time. Oh,

you're talking about, you're not talking about Vikingstad, are you? Right. Are you talking about this tour Vikingstad? That was the best. Yeah,

so there's going to be that guy, right? Yeah. And that scores five goals in the first three games for the Americans. And we're all, and it'll be some five, eight guy that we're like,

it's a smaller league now. He should be in the league. And my guess is somebody will get a shot out of this. Yeah. And like those, so there's going to be a million great stories that come from it. And you know how the Olympic, they'll produce it up and we'll know, you know, we're going to hear all these crazy back stories.

Yeah. So I'm back on, like, everyone's, you know, you get mad about Austin Matthews or whatever. And I feel, and the, and like, even doing this book and working with Mike on it and, and Sid, Cindy Crosby did the, you know, the forward. And I feel bad for those guys who had this chance to do some, have a crazy legacy, right? Yeah. Like there are like the taves, Dowdy, Crosby, Babcock International group is going to go down as one of the,

you know, the greatest of all time. The greatest of all time. But they, they, they, it ended because of, like,

the Americans didn't get to end it or whoever, right? Yeah, it ended because of money. People got in a conflict or whatever, right? So like, yeah.

Yeah, it sucks. It's a good, positive way. Yeah. Well, listen, Craig's book's awesome.

Pimp, pimp your stuff. Where can people find all your, Oh, yeah. So Theathletic.com, if you're not a subscribe to Theathletic, what I always tell people do is go to Theathletics.com slash NHL, and you'll just see all the people writing for us. And it's all really good stuff. You can see the stories, right?

You can't read the stories. It's like, you know, ESPN. Inside, you read the first couple paragraphs and people are like, oh, I love your first two paragraphs. And that's right. You're a wily veteran of the paywall. Oh, my gosh. I've been, I was telling someone else, even before Insider, it was Sporting News today.

We had a pay-only app at Sporting News. on an iPads before anyone had iPads. It was little... Your ship must be tasty. Yeah, I got a really... So, yeah, go check out the stuff in the athletic. It's like, we're legitimately proud of it because it's the right, if you're a hockey fan, it's great.

Um, the book's behind the bench. And if you're a podcast fan, Greg is on my podcast or was or I don't know when anything running. Yeah, we did a little podcast swapparoo where Craig came on Puck Soup and then, um, I went on the full 60. The full 60. I went beyond the full 60. Well, we had to make up for Noah Hannafins.

Yeah, Noah Hannafin did the partial 38 and I did beyond the full 60. Yeah. And that's, it's, it's, it's, uh, they're usually hour long interviews and I want to make them, what I like about is I want to make them bingeable where they're, for the most part, they're not topical. It's more like, how did you get to where you are? It's a lot, it's a good long conversation about journalism and, and, and whatever career.

Or if it's a coach, you know, John Heinz was. a couple episodes ago and he told these incredible like he told a story about he was making you know six figures working at u.s.a hockey and got a job offer at wiltsbury that he had to take a 50,000 a year pay cut wow and he's like i want to be a pro hockey coach and and just that having the hour to you know expand john chica was yeah i would say it's really it's a good format to get people to open up i would say if someone was going to sample it i'd say that chico one was probably a really good sort of indicate like a good a good sample portion of what you do on that podcast yeah yeah because it's a smart conversation and you get a guy talking a little bit right yeah and then the

i like the ones with my friends because it's like yeah yours and mine it's probably very casual but the there are what i like about is you can listen any time so i would if if you're into that go check it out there you go Craig costons your a gentleman and a scholar and thank you for inviting me into your hotel room thank you great all right our thanks to Craig The Restance of the Athletic do get his book behind the bench. He'll show you hockey. It's great. It's fantastic.

MMA is legal. Let's put a bow around the All-Star game. What was your favorite thing? What was your least favorite thing about the All-Star game? Skills was good. Game was bad. Games were really bad. You know what so?

It's first year where you could just tell. The problem with three-on-three is it's not that people are like, you can't hide at three-on-three. You have to go full out. Apparently you don't. the problem with three on three is not so much even the skating or the effort and all that guys don't shoot the puck guys get two on o's and breakaways and two on ones and they refuse to just snap a shot off from 10 feet away there's a lot of overpassing and it's just it's the worst and my idea is how we fix it's a million bucks for the winning team right you get split it up 10 ways 11 ways whatever one million you start rewarding goals and assists and saves individually with like charity you say hey you score goal a thousand bucks to your charity that's a really great idea assists we'll say 500 saves a hundred bucks there's nothing that these guys like more than scoring and making people think that they're good people it's it's it's it's the best of all worlds really is because like connor mac david must

have had like 11 breakaways in his games and it was just like oh let me let me drop the puck back the best i just wanted to have that feeling of being able to assist on someone else's goal he never gets to really experience that anymore i i love how so the whole game whenever there's a two on one two on O, the guy with the puck's never shooting it, except one time it happened, when Claude Drew was on his left wing, and Brian Boyle, who's there to be celebrated as a human being is on the right wing, ready to T1 up, and Drew fakes the pass and snaps it short side and scores. That's the only time somebody didn't pass on a two-on-one.

I want to see someone cut a video that together where they play it to the music from the natural. Like Brian. Boyle opens up and gets Y with his stick and like Juru just no look shoots to the shorts. And the goal he completely moves over for the... I forget if it was Vasselowski, whoever it was, but just completely...

He's ready for the pass. I don't blame him. That's the only time somebody did not pass on a two-y-oh. Skates by in slow motion, you see his moving going, devil suck. He like holds up his middle finger on the follow-through. Skills are great game. I enjoyed the game, because I thought the games are competitive,

and I thought that the guys had more fun in these games than they usually do. Like the Marchand thing, look, he shouldn't have been there. He was on suspension. I don't agree with that. Five game suspension for concussing a guy. He shouldn't be there. You can't reward a guy for a suspension. You got to make him play.

There you go. I also as I also subscribe to the theory that making him play is even worse punishment. But he was really fun. Ikel and Matthews pointing to the goal after the video review was fun. It seemed like the guys were a little bit more exhibiting a little bit more personality than normal during these games. And I appreciated that. I think the three-on-three kind of allows them to. And so I thought that was fun.

The skills competition, I've been singing the praises that save streak thing. I'm a goalie guy. Yeah, that was good. And I feel like they finally found a way, they did two really smart things with that. It went too long. It did. They had to cut down the number of goalies like four. Yeah.

I don't know why they had a fifth one. Or just like the streak after a while was just like, all right. No, I kind of love. See, that's the beauty of it is because goalies are by nature deprivers of joy. And the idea that you're going to, like, there's going to be a year. with some Hasekian guy comes into this All-Star game, and he stops 40 shots. Yeah, nobody needs that many saves. No, I think the crowd will get into it.

But, like, no one's going to catch him. Like, after he gets to 45, the next guy's up, we're going to have to, like, try to get the 45. No, if somebody goes to 45, the other, next guy up should just step out of the way and allow to fucking, and just end the event. I think you cap it at 10. Yeah, there should be a number that they get to. If you can get to, if you can get to 20, you win the event. Like, make it a volleyball game. Like, a first team to 21 wins.

If you can get to 20 straight saves, you win the event. Make it like a volleyball game. Not pick up basketball. Volleyball? That's your go to for 21. I mean, look at this body. You know, I play a lot more beach volleyball than pick up basketball. Yeah, baby.

I mean, I am the volleyball. Yeah, no, if you said it to 20, it'd be great. But, like, I just love the idea that A, they put the spotlight on goalies, and B, they finally fucking figured out. No one gives shit about the shootout anymore. So, like, don't have an event that's just a shootout. Fold the shootout into this other thing. I mean, it is the shoot.

out, but it's just for the goalies. Right, for the goalies. Right, where it matters now. It was good. The skill of the puck relay thing was fine. The passing thing was fine. The thing about the LED lights, though, like, I hate the fact that it changes after three seconds. Just light it up and leave it. You know what I mean? Like, you miss it twice and then like you hit it. And then as you hit it, the light changes something else where it doesn't count. Like that's just, that's too confusing. Thanks Ron Coe back from Board of the Fourth of July. What's that? Lighter to leave it, baby. Lighter to leave it. Is that what he says? I have no idea. He says love it or leave it. That's a movie about Vietnam. You never saw it. I mean, I've seen it. Oliver Stone. He's seen it. He's seen it. He's

Does light it or leave it? No, he says love it or leave it. Oh. Oh, so you're basically making a leap to a love it or leave it thing. Right. From a movie from 1987. John Lovitz podcast on Crooked Media. The guy from Saturday Live has a podcast on Crooked Media.

Not John Lovitz, John Lovett. He is one of the co-hosts of Pod Save America who has his own. That's John Favreau. From Swingers? Yeah. The director of Zahirthra? It's him and Vince Vaughn talking about politics for two hours. And he's like, oh, man, that's a beautiful baby over there.

Yeah. Yeah. You're like a scared little bunny. You're like a scared little bunny. I'm not. You're like a scared little buddy. No, I'm not. It just goes back and forth over and over again.

It's the most fantastic thing. It's two hours. And it ends with John Favro cooking a meal in the truck for the rest of the people that are there. He says, you know where I got this meal? I'm wearing me undies as I, as I prepare this meal. John could be with us today. He's counting his money as a producer of the Iron Man movies. God.

I got to start producing movies. What the fuck are we? Oh, right. No, the lights were fine. I liked the... I liked it all. I liked that part where they stopped doing the mininets in the middle of the ice and they had that little bouncy rubber puck thing that was going on.

That was super fun. It reminded me a pong. It was catching people by surprise by how bouncy it was. Yeah, it was overskating the puck because they didn't realize how bouncy the bounceers were. It really kicked off of it. Yeah, the skills was good. I like the skills a lot. The game is just...

As Down Goes Brown was saying, the game's for the kids. And kids like to see Eichol and Matthews play together. I'm like, I don't care. I'm old and decrepit. whatever. I can imagine it. Great. Two guys who are awesome playing at half speed. Great. But kids love it. I really want them to make more of an effort to show people highlights from the mascot game.

Because I was there in the press box for the mascot game. Why not put it on before? It streamed on Facebook last year. People were saying that it didn't stream this year. But at one point, S.J. Sharkey knocked down N.J. Devil and started, he knocked him down to the ice. Then he started donkey punching him in the back of the head. And at one point, then he used his jaws to try to eat him. Donkey punching.

And at one point, Bailey, the lion from the LA Kings, got tripped and pretended to be dead. And two mascots dragged him by the feet across the entire ice back to the bench. This sounds actually horrifying for children. It was fantastic. Like mascots dead? Was there like a blood trail coming from the back of his head that was like planted there beforehand? They should really send the mascots All-Star Game on the road. And in fact, if they ever did, there's only one way you can get tickets for such an event.

How? What's the way? Oh, I've heard of that, yeah. One of our favorite sponsors here on Puck Soup. It's the smartest, easiest way to get tickets to every type of live event, whether or not they involve furries. Whether you're searching for a last minute deal or need the perfect gift, Seekek helps you find the best seats of the best prices, fully guaranteed. Dave and I both have the Seekek app on our phones. It's by far the easiest way we found to shop for tickets, aforementioned waitress tickets, for example, or anything on Broadway.

I actually just use Seek to buy them waitress tickets, and I usually also use it to buy my New Jersey double tickets to bring old dear old dad. of the game. It's an app designed to make your ticket buying experience easier than ever. You just use it and you can find the best deals based on the colors of circles. So for you visual learners, it really does you well. Every purchase

is fully guaranteed. You can shop with confidence. Make Seek your go-to app for finding the best deals on every type of ticket, be it sports, be it concerts, be it to comedy, be it theater. Best of all, Puck Soup listeners get $20 off their first Seeky purchase. Not a percentage this time, but straight dollars.

$20 on your first Seekink purchase Download the Seekek app today Under the promo code SOUP that spells soup That's S OUP that spells soup today That's promo code soup For $20 off your first Seekek purchase

And Dave and I always do enjoy When you folks send pictures Of the games you attend Courtesy of Seatkeek Because it makes us look real good Here's a game You might want to Find if there's some Seat Geek

tickets for next season Is it a Carolina Pan Hurricanes Tuesday night game It is a Carolina Hurricanes Tuesday Night Game where you, let's start with that. I was going to bring up the Whalers thing, but let's start with that. Yeah. I, I, I am of two minds of what the Hurricanes did.

If you haven't heard their new owner, Tom Dunden. Dunden. Sure. Dunkirk. Dunkirk. Did a thing on Tuesday night when the Hurricanes hosted the Ottawa Senators, a game that I'm sure sold roughly 3,000 tickets. I'll look it up right now while you're talking.

He did a thing where he, they set up tables at the arena. and if you had an upper deck seat, an upper decker. You could then swap your ticket for a lower bowl seat that had been unsold. And it was kind of like we want to have a great atmosphere

for this game that no one's attending. We also want to give people a chance to see what life is like in the lower bowl. It's kind of a marketing thing. It's kind of a, well, what have you thing. And it was, on the one hand, a really clever idea to take a game that wasn't really well attended

and then turn it into a chance to reward some of your fans and continue to sort of, new vibe of positive feelings that has come with the new ownership there. I am of the other mind, though, because I was in Washington when the capitals were just starting

the Ovechkin era, and maybe even before that. And there weren't a lot of people at these games on the weeknights. And they would do this shit where they would do like, buy one ticket at the Green Turtle, get one free or whatever.

And I remember it being a huge deal with the season ticket holders that were really pissed off. They're like, look, I've been supporting this team since the fucking cap center. And this guy next to me basically peeled a free ticket off of a fucking soda cup at sheets, and now he's here.

So here's my feeling on that. Like, I get that standpoint where, like, you're paying a shit ton of money for awesome seats and then some bozo shows up for 20 bucks and sits next to you and you're like, what the hell? Why am I paying this? But the way you have to look at it is

is that if they don't start doing something, you're not going to be able to pay for your ticket because the team's not going to be there anymore. So you kind of have to just, be like, all right, let's do what we can to get people in the building, and then once things become normal again, you won't want to worry about it. While you presented the extreme version of the argument, I will say that overall, it's better to attend a game with people there.

You know, it's better to go to a, like, just fucking look at Barclay Center. Yeah, but I mean, if the people are all crammed in the lower bowl, they're spread out all over the place, the building's still going to be empty in some sort of way. You know what I mean? Like, at least you give the people that don't usually sit down there, the experience. The only thing I was saying, and some Hurricanes fans got pissed off of me about it, The only thing I was saying the other day was, I hope that the season ticket holders

that have been supporting the shit-ass team that's made the playoffs once in the last, you know, however long. Eight years or so? Yeah, the last time was against the Devils. That was the last time when they beat the Devils. Wouldn't it? They won the Cup in 06. They lost the Penguins in the conference finals.

Yeah, yeah. Right? So, like, I just hope that the season ticket holders that have been loyally supporting this team are taking care of. I understand that, according to some people, they've mentioned that season ticket holders are going to be, like, invited on the team playing or some shit. Jesus.

Like, that's great, but you can't put, fit everybody on the team plane unless it's like a helic carrier from the Avengers. They can fit 14 season ticket. Oh! Burn! You think I only have Arizona Coyote attendance jokes. Wow. I got them all.

By the way, attendance for Tuesday night. What do you think it was? Ottawa, Carolina. Ottawa, Carolina. Price is right rules. With the announcement that upper deck seats were being transferred to the lower bowl, I'm going to go, and knowing what was a probably already sold, I'm going to go 10,500.

11,448. Okay. I might still have a chance at the car in the vacation package. Oh, yeah, you're less than a grand off. Yeah. They had a few games that dipped under 10,000 earlier this season. Yeah, I mean, it's not a great market in the beginning with.

I wouldn't say it's not a great market. It's a shitty team in a place that hockey is not necessarily a traditional sport. NC State basketball games get more people. I think I might have written more about the hurricanes in the last 24 hours than I have in the last month. What do you think about the whole way? I'm fine with it to an extent. I don't see it as trolling. I know a lot of fans are like, oh, no, of course it's not.

Like, this is a shitty thing to do for the people of Hartford. I, I've long wondered why they didn't embrace that organization more. In the times I've been in Carolina, I've seen Whalers jerseys in the crowd. I've seen Whalers fans support that team. Why not play brass bonanza for the past 20 years? Right. Why not have Gordy Howe's banner up? They have nine retired.

They don't have a banner up for Gordy Howe. That's what I mean. There has to be like a line because like the whole Winnipeg Phoenix thing is annoying. But there was always a chance Winnipeg was getting another team. There's no chance Hartford's getting another team. Like you can go and retire other, like Kevin Dean's number or whatever, like and feel okay about it. Yeah, I guess. And put it up the green banner next to the red ones.

So it looks like Christmas. Kevin Dean. Here's my question. Will it be the classic Whalers jersey? Or will they do the thing that the Mighty Ducks did was resurrect the Mighty Ducks did was resurrect the Mighty Ducks Jersey? and then recast it in the colors of the team. See, that's annoying. Is there a chance it might be a black and red?

All in or nothing. All in or nothing. I don't want to see a bastardized version of a cool jersey and cool logo. Like, we were just talking about this a couple of weeks ago, where the NHL did a thing where they've had the fans rank all the best logos, and like five of the top six are logos that don't exist anymore. Right. So give people what they want. Give them the Hartford Whalers logo.

Give them the green and the white and everything and let them go crazy for a night. Who on Earth would want to own a... Jeff Skinner. Hartford Whalers jersey. They will make more money off the Whalers gear than they will off the Hurricanes gear. Can they do it though? Isn't there like a copyright? They share the trademark on the logo with the NHL.

And so in theory they should be able to, and you'll know it. And it'll be a thing where like to differentiate between the Hartford shit they already sell, it'll be like a Whalers jersey with a Hurricanes patch on it or something. Yeah. And then you'll have to get that one because it'll be the official throwback. You could even do a whaler's jersey with the hurricane's stripy stripes on it if you wanted to. They probably won't do it that way, though. They probably will do it with the cheesy Carolina thing mixed in because they're playing in Carolina.

They're not playing in Connecticut. So they're not going to want to commit to it. Should they commit to the bit and go play a game in Hartford? Because obviously we're never going to do that when Carmanos is the owner. Well, are people really going to go? Yeah. In Hartford? I don't think so.

Oh, my God. Yes. Really? Oh, it would be incredibly popular. Let's say the Washington Nationals, we're going to go play a game in Montreal and be like, hey, guys. Now, come on out, hang. That's a different vibe, though. It's the same thing.

No, no. It's not even, because it's not the, it's, I don't know. I feel like it's different. I think, I think if, because I, I, because I, I, you're going to have like a really vehement argument. No, I think it's because in Montreal, they're like, ha, ha, ha, we deserve baseball. And in Hartford, it's more like, it's like, belch. We hope that hockey comes back. Every, every couple of years, some, like, politician there's like, we got an arena.

Yeah, and they're still kind of a bus trips to places and they all wear their whaler shit. It's more of a positive, like, hey, kids, we really need to convince these guys that our town's worthy of a team. I think that would be dickish to the Carolina people to go, like, play a game there. Like, if the Islanders go back and play like 10 games on Long Island, whatever, that's fine. But, like, pulling the team back, it's just, what would it be like? It would be like, I don't know, like, getting divorced 20 years ago and then just out of nowhere showing up to your ex-wife's birthday party with your new wife

not uninvited you just show up you announced that you're going to hold a party for your ex right in the town and your ex is like I'm good I don't really need you anymore I've moved on that was like a long time ago like no no no don't come up here no we don't want to see your new clothes we don't care with red the red's nice that's not for us though do you like this new owner even know he made all his money

oh fuck him junk loans fuck him fuck him in his subprime fucking predatory fucking loans he had something else too. But he's young and hip and friends with Mark Cuban, I've been told a thousand times. Yeah, that's, that's, who are the good billionaires? The good billionaires? Are there any?

Ted Leonis invented those little discs that you got in the mail to give you. Tid pots? No, before that. The CDs that gave you AOL. Did he invent that? Oh, like the free 1,000 hour discs. Yeah, that's a good billionaire. He has something else, too, this guy, doesn't he?

Vinick's a good billionaire. Oh, my God. The Love Fester Jeff Vinick at Tampa. Jesus. You'd think you'd have a statue to him outside instead of Andrew Chuck. I don't want to hear about owners. But Dundon has something else, too. He has a subprime loams, and he has one other thing, too, that makes him kind of a duchy.

I forget what it is. Yeah. Deadspin wrote about it. Right. Oh, right. It's a beef jerky company that uses puppy parts. No, that's not true. Well, I mean, if the beef jerky is good.

You know? I don't like you. I don't care of restaurants. Right. You close your eyes and eat the food at McDonald's. I was so, dude. I was so mad. I had jury duty on Monday, and I completely forgot to pack my beef jerky that I bought

specifically for it. And I had no food food. You didn't get picked. Why is that? Oh, dude. So, I mean, I didn't get picked because they didn't call my name. But I was in voir dire, the part where they, you're in the courtroom. Which, yeah, it sounds a lot sexier than it is.

Yeah, it's better when Joe Pesci says it in my cousin Vinnie. The voir dia. But, so I'm in the room from 1030 to 3.30. I got no work done that day. I thought I was going to be able to sit around and get work done. Right, because you can't use your electronics. When you get to the courtroom, you just sit there and it's like being in like 195. Like, you just know it.

There's nothing there. So there's a single fan blowing above and on the ceiling. It's very, I thought this was so funny. So it's a civil case. So it's eight jurors total, six and two, six jurors, two alternates. And it's like 1150 and it's time to go to lunch. And the judge, by the way, everyone's really nice at jury duty because they know you don't want to be there.

They're very like, oh, we understand. Like, oh, okay. So it's 1150. He's like, I'm going to let everybody go to lunch a little bit early. I want everybody back here at 1 o'clock. We're going to continue the process. But I want everyone to be here at 1255 for roll call. And if you're not here for a roll call, I'm going to issue a.

a bench warrant for your arrest. And I kind of laughed because I'm like, who in the world is going to get arrested for that? Could you imagine being in the holding cell with someone? And they're like, yeah, I'm here because I stole, I stole cars. What are you here for? Well, I just lost track of time at Blimpy. It's a really good sandwich. So I'm like laughing about this idea that someone's really going to get arrested for not

showing up back in time for lunch. So guess how many people had bench warrants issued? How many? Two. No shit. They did, they did roll call on two people who were not back. time for and so they were like issue a bench warrant for the arrest of whoever and I'm like holy fuck someone's gonna go to jail but they eventually rolled in late and it was fine but I could

not fucking believe that people on jury duty like just time stops at jury duty you don't you don't think about anything else and they were they were late now you got me thinking if there was a jury trial over a juror that was late do you think the jury would feel favorably towards this person oh no one would convict nobody no one would they be like you know what we showed up in time and this person didn't. Oh, like a little vindictiveness. Yeah, would it be a moralizing jury against the juror that was late?

I can't be objective. The whole time I was there. You wouldn't be... Wow. How do you do a jury trial for a juror? No, I'm mad. You know what everybody would have to recuse themselves. The minute you're on the jury, you're a juror.

So pretty much when you go to lunch at jury duty, don't come back because they'll never convict you. Is that the lesson to be taken from this story? Man. I was so prepared to get called up there and just say the word media 55 times. What do you do for a living? Well, I was a member of the media. I work in the media and just hope I get excused that way.

Did I ever tell you that story about, I don't know if I were this in the podcast when I did jury duty. I was expecting the same thing. And I was on the jury and I knew I was just going to say, I'm a reporter. Right. And I knew that from all my media friends have been on jury duty. It's like, golden ticket, baby. You're off the jury. You're going to be done for the day.

Didn't work? So I get on the jury and I'm sitting next to all these people here and they're just like, I'm a physician. Oh, I work in a library or whatever. And the guy next to me, they're like, state your name. Like, Justin. You know, what is your profession? He's like, I'm a crime reporter. Oh, no.

And then it's my turn. You're like, say your name. I'm Greg. Profession? A reporter? And they're like, and what do you report on? Like hockey? Which has crimes called penalties.

Justin got off the jury and I was on the jury for three days. And it pushed very dangerously close to Labor Day weekend to have to come back to next week. See, I thought that was, I really thought, no one told me to do that, but I was just sitting there praying I wasn't called. I thought that was like a golden ticket too. But I guess there was, there was a woman who was a cop and you knew, she was the first person excused. Right. They were never going to let a cop sit on the jury. And then there was, it was, it sucked because the way it works is like there was the, the whatever, I forget which lawyer is for which guy.

But one lawyer was like, when they had this all eight jurors, he says, I like this jury. I'm happy with it. And then the other two lawyers were like, were you get rid of four, get rid of five, get rid of four again, get rid of six.

And this one guy kept saying, you like the jury. And then they had it. They had it set. And a girl who had been up there since like 11 a.m. It had not been excused. All of a sudden he was like,

yeah, let's get rid of her. And I'm like, no, because every person they got rid of is a chance for you to go up there. And so you're playing mental games. Like, why are they excusing people? Is it because they're old?

Like, why? Oh, my God. It's just, it's the most stress. It's the worst game show of all time if you can't win. It's, it wasn't good. Speaking of lawyers, it's Gary Betman's 20th anniversary as the NHL commissioner. Man, the segues today are fantastic. They're on point.

We asked you folks, what is Gary Betman's legacy in the National Hockey League and came to find out? What does Gary Bettman mean to you? A lot of people don't like him. I mean, Andrew Carlson says that his legacy is refusing to take off his half-human, half-lizzard mask, which I think is an indication. James Gantan says that he's the only dwarf to preside over multiple lockouts. He's not that short. He just looks tiny next to the big guys on skates.

Ryan Taylor says, we'll never know whatever the legacy is. It'll be drowned out by the booing of everyone who has ever enjoyed a hockey game. Vaughn Mitchell says Baby Driver Update, watched it last night, wanted to like it. Thinking Dave was being too negative. Oh, this is something different. Yeah, it has completely different. He was just agreeing with me that baby driver's terrible. Thanks, Vaughn.

Appreciate that bison guy, 51. Sorry, I was just in the stream there. LJ. writes, and going from four to six divisions, everyone complaining, then back to four, we're still everyone complaining, and parentheses southern expansion. It's important to remember, by the way,

that the southern strategy for the NHL was something that predated Betman. He nurtured it, and he fought to keep teams in those markets, but the plan to expand to those southern markets predated him, yeah, it did. He got there in 95, right? We got there in 92.

That's what we're having a fucking anniversary. All right, 25. No, 93 then. Yeah. Oh, oh. Fucking, Price is right rules. You were over.

For some reason, I imagine the 95 Cup final has his first time talking, and I think that's his first year. No, but like, wait, but that was everybody.

Florida, Florida. We already had the, the sharks were in place. We were already getting the Florida teams. Sharks aren't south. Um,

it's a sunbelt. The sharks aren't the sunbelt. The sun's in California. It's northern. It's not even southern California. Nashville wasn't around yet. It's not SoCal. Dear Jim, we are definitely not in the sunbelt.

Look at my skin. Signed, Jumbo. Did you know Jim Rome is part of like the CBS football pregame show? I only learned that during the UFC title game last week. He did a whole bit like we were talking about in the car and the way down in the Philly. Here it is, a game. We're thinking about that on the Patreon mailbag. What?

That was our favorite, one of our favorite things of the whole live show in Philly was driving there and hearing a Jim Rome commentary, which is basically like, uh, Jim, we're going to. I need a hot take on Tom Brady. All right. Listen up, clones. There is absolutely no way Tom Brady is going to be the quarterback for Cleveland Browns next year. They need a quarterback.

Tom Brady is the best in the business. But I do not foresee a scenario in which Tom Brady will be the quarterback of the Browns. Settle down Browns fans. Take a seat. You're not getting your man this time. I'm Jim Rome. You're just like, that's true. They're not.

I don't think anyone... All right. Hey, Charlie. Do you hear? Here's your paycheck. Jim Roem said we're not getting Brady. Oh, geez. I don't even know where we're going for Brady. Yeah, right. You're just upsetting people that don't need to be upset any more than they've already been for the past two decades.

How's your dog mask? Oh, it's all right. A little itchy around the collar. Oh, that dog mask thing is getting annoying. You went fucking 13 and 3 this year. Knock it off. David Daniel Harshaw said, Uniting Fans of Every franchise and are loathing of him,

Adam Caldwell, that trolls can indeed come out from under their bridge and have a successful life amongst normal people if they also have law degrees. Dan Henney has the one that I think is the best one that's not the lockouts. It's walking away from ESPN. I feel like in hindsight,

that was really, really, way worse than I think anyone really thought it was going to be. I recuse myself. No, I think it's more, I think, listen, the ESPN thing was ESPN at the time trying to lowball the NHL. I understand walking away from ESPN. I don't understand casting your lot with one network.

That was the mistake. And then doing it a second. time. Again, the NBA is literally on, what, four or five different channels. The NFL is on four or five different channels. Major League Baseball, I'm pretty sure it's on every fucking channel. When I know there's a baseball game on TV, I can never find it in the first three attempts. I'm like, Fox, no. ESPN, no, MLB Network, no. Oh, FX, no, no. Oh, Fox Sports 2. Oh, there it is. Found it. Cardinals Cubs. Coming up on True Crime, the legacy of Jerry Joey Buttafuco, but first, Braves, Cardinals, next.

Even the NCAA tournament has, like, went from just being on CBS to being on, like, True TV and USA and moving all around and stuff. Meanwhile, it's like... It's a dumb league. Coming up after hunting and fishing expo in that weird car show, it's the NHL on NBC. During the playoffs, following the Predators and the Blackhawks, Shark Tank. Joe Pavelsky will not be there, but Mark Cuban will. So long.

Coming up on NBCSN after the completion of Sabres Wild on rivalry night, it's a replay of the Dan Patrick show, followed by a replay of Dan Patrick hosting Sports Jeopardy, followed by again that weird car show. The car show is almost like six hours, too. It's always from like one or seven. Like who was watching cars just roll out for six hours on TV? Oh, honey, look at that. Look at the body on that convertible.

Doc and Eddie, it's like antique road show except the cars are the antics. talking this convertible was originated by Tucker a man in his dream in 1944 out in California Jeff Bridges portrayed him in a movie that won Oscars After this game the Wilde hit the road Road roadsters car show next Mike Elias says the generic Central Division from the top down is unbeatable

Much the way a convertible is unbeatable when its top is down Road Show. Next. The Penguins to feed the flyers, courtesy of amazing efforts by Sidney Crosby and Chris LaTang. And now we go from LaTang to Mustang. Car Show. Next on NBCSN. And the Red Wings have won their eighth in a row. That's eight in a row for the winged wheel. Speaking of wheels, roll on over to NBC Sports for a new car show episode, focusing on wheels.

Drive! I'd make a Blake Wheeler joke with an ever show Winnipeg. So good on you for identifying the correct part of the bit. Yes. Honorable Dan Ryan writes in success. Revenue has gone from $2.27 billion in 0506 to 4.4.4's $3 billion in 1617. This is the heart of his job. And then on top of that, I mean, like they're making fucking like the salary of Daniel Pyei

in 1992, and now they make a lot more money than that. All that money, and they can only afford Kid Rock. Interesting. Kid rocking up and on your block. My name is poor. Jeff Jones says, likely for a work stop, which is an inability to seize a captain of a captive American audience. And Eric Dowardy writes in his inability to admit that no one wants hockey in Arizona. Well, that's not true. Shane Don't probably does.

Shane, fucking Shane don't want hockey in Arizona more than anybody I've ever known in my life. Want to go to the penguins for just one cup run? Nope. Staying here with the horses. I was talking to somebody who used to work for the coyotes the other day. I was saying like... I know you don't. Yes, I do.

Who is it? Sergey. No, it wasn't Sergey. No, no, no. Good guess, though. Yeah, I was a good guess. I was like, did you ever get a chance to go to those Glendale City Council meetings? And he's like, oh, yeah, I got to go to those.

I'm like, I loved watching it. It was like watching Parks and Rec. It was insane. And he goes, if you thought that was Parks and Rec, you should have seen those people behind the scenes. Like it was just step that one meeting where it came down to the vote where the one guy grandstanded for like 10 minutes like oh my god Those are those were the days All right

That's the show for this week You can find me on Twitter at Wasinski You could read me on ESPN.com My other podcast with Emily Kaplan is ESPN on ice in which we talked about We talked to Kevin Weeks and Emily sat down and had coffee with Amanda Kessel As well Like in like a coffee shop or was it like in a studio? He was in a Starbucks

Oh, yeah. And just recorded it? Well, I mean, she, it was a formal interview. It wasn't like she sat down and was like speaking to this flower. No, I mean, like, I know I'm this picture in like our bar thing, only it's like coffee and it's like civilized. Yeah, it's coffee and intelligent conversation between two people versus meh for an hour. Without like any like Oreo speedwagon in the background. Without getting dirty looks from families just got out of Penn Station.

I'm looking for a place to eat. And then they hear, that's why Batman fucking sucks. Yeah, that's what that's exactly. And luckily, no one's ever come over and, like, when, you know, politely, like, oh, my, my lads, could you maybe turn it down a little bit for the people that are trying to eat their corn beef? A spot silence. Um. Do you have to let it linger? R.

Right. Do you have to? What? Oh, right. Yeah, I forgot about that. Died. This is my way of honoring the cranberries. Doloress.

She was hot. I liked her a lot. I had crush on her. Short hair. I had crush on her in the 90s pretty good. There tanks and their. Her and, what's her name from garbage? Oh, Shirley Manson.

Oh, now you're speaking my language, buddy. Those are the days. I was out. Shirley Manson and Dana Scully in my formative years. By the way, Jillian Anderson has gotten hotter. I was going to say, like, I really wasn't into Dana Scully when she was younger. And, like, now, like, Julie Anderson was, like getting her star on the Walk of Fame. I was like, oh, my God.

Sharon Stone in friggin' mosaic. Yeah. You've seen mosaic? Really hot. It's insane. She's 60 years old. Like, was getting progressively hotter and, like, wow, she looks really good. And then she, and then she played, she dressed like David Bowie for American Gods.

And I'm like, oh, my God, she's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Yeah. Now she's androgynous, too. She's fantastic. It's amazing. Rachel Weiss, too, is another one who, like, seems to get hotter every year. Meanwhile, David Dukovny looks like an old shoe. I know.

David Dukovny, well, David Dukovny was like one of the, he was like a sexiest man alive at one point, wasn't he? Well, it was one of those things where, like, David Dukovny has always been a real monotone bore. But, like, when you looked like David Dukovney, you can get away with it. You just do whatever you want. It's like, Scully, we got to find the aliens. And you're just like, oh, this old man needs to shut up and give the mic to the hot girl. Let her solve the crimes. She's got an MD and what are you?

One last thing on The X-Files, for those who watch the show, there's a Darren Morgan episode. Darren Morgan, of course, is the creator of the best episodes, the Jose Chung from outer space and on on. There was a Darren Morgan episode this past week on the X-Files. And it begins with Mulder walking in into his house, dressed completely. completely in like, he looks like a moss man. And he takes off his, is the moss mask that he's wearing it's the Coveney. The Moss Man Protheses?

And Scully's like, where were you, Mulder? And he's like, oh, I was out squatching. Looking for Bigfoot. I'm like squatching. Like the squatch. Like, I want a name of Seattle. I got a... But like, I feel like they've taken David DuCovny's like, you know,

conspiracy theory character and the kind of made him a little silly. Well, you can't really do those anymore. Like, as has been mentioned... Actually, they mentioned it on the... episode because it was about sort of like fake news and stuff. They're like once the birth or conspiracy happened, you can't really have an X-File. Sure you can. When people are believing that shit.

New York Times put out a story like a month ago about there's like real aliens flying around and on. Remember that? That's not an X-File. It was in New York Times. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Anyways, you read me on Twitter and ASPN and what do you? I'm going to go pee and then we're going to do the mailback.

All right. Thanks for listening to Puck Soup, everybody tell a friend. Leave reviews on iTunes. It helps people find the show. Good or bad reviews. It helps people recognize that gentlemen with small bladders can't operate doors as he walks out.

And that's the show for this week. Thanks for listening. Glag glag glug glug-glug-glue. Support for today's Puck soup comes from Control GX, the first shampoo that gradually reduces gray from Just for Men. Just use Control GX as you would any regular shampoo that you use to see

subtle, natural-looking results. You shampoo in, you rinse it out, you move on. Most guys get results they want in about two weeks. weeks. So for a smart, forward-thinking look, use Control GX. And here's a deal. 25% off Control GX using the promo code Puck-S-O-U-P-18. That's P-U-C-S-O-U-P-18 at ControlGX.com. That's code Puck-Soup 18 to get 25% off at ControlGX.com. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you'll commute. But we also cover movies, TV.

shoes, it's in tools, it's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Bork, too.