Puck Soup - Dimitri Filipovic

Episode Date: March 23, 2017

Greg and Dave welcome Sportsnet hockey analytics smartypants Dimitri Filipovic for a chat about the warring factions of stat nerds, his work with an NHL team, what numbers we should trust, the media's ignorance and whether you can sell hockey with math. Plus,the boys debate the Olympics and the NHL; look at the Vezina Trophy field, and ponder the merits of Corey Crawford as a franchise goalie; give a March Mute-This tournament update; play a round of 'London Tube Stop, U.K. Crime Series or Sexual Slang'; and answer your listener mail about 'Lethal Weapon' vs. the 'Ocean's' movies, Subway sandwiches, peanut butter on hamburgers, how we shower and the merits of jellybeans. Sponsored by Seat Geek and Blue Apron!

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commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nancet. I'm Greg Wushinsky of Yahoo Sports Puck Daddy Blog. And I'm Dave, and I don't know. I'm going to Vegas this weekend. I like that. High energy reaction, folks.

You're in Puck Soup. You may be in a fire alarm in a few moments. according to the announcement. Which is part of our new segment, Fire Takes. Brought to you by the New York Fire Department. It's part of our new segment called Fleeing a Burning Building.

Today's fire take, Cam Talbot deserves the Vezina. Whoa! Waka, waka, whoa! I have a hot take. LeBron isn't a boring leader, but Tim Tebow is a boring leader. Josee Bautista is not the kind of guy

I want on my team. I want to Mark Trumbo. My favorite thing about Skip Bayless these days is the Richard Deich thing where he's tweeting out the ratings for other shows in relation to the Fox Sports One show. I disagree. It's the worst bit going.

It's a horrible bit because it lacks context and it's completely trolling. But what he puts like, like today's was Fox Sports like the Skip Baylor's show had like 59,000 viewers and fucking like gun smoke had like 250,000. Like we know why.

It's because old retired fucks in Oklahoma are watching gun smoke. But still, it's funny though. It's funny. It was part of the first time. In a plus minus kind of If you did that every day after a guy signed a four-year $27 million contract to point out how somebody has more goals or assist or points or touchdowns, I would fucking kill you by day four. It's enough.

We get it. No one's about what, but he's got a contract. Skip Bayliss does not give a fuck that gun smoke or fucking. SpongeBob. That's the other one he uses a lot. SpongeBob. Like, Skip Malas could give three wet farts into the wind about those ratings. He's getting paid either way.

And like, I just, uh, it's just so. I see it retweeted once a week and I just I get it. No one's watching Skip Bayliss. It's great. It's great that no one's watching him. It's like Donald Trump jokes. Like, I hate Donald Trump, but at the same time, I don't care how often Donald Trump made fun of Obama golfing. I don't care.

I get it. I understand the hypocrisy. Don't need to see it every day. So hockey, Greg. Patrick the Starfish is a born leader, but LeBron isn't a born leader. Stephen A. Smith's a ratings leader. Skip Bayliss is I'll say one thing about Trump

Okay I don't like the man at all As you know I think everybody in this podcast Knows for me and Dave Stan on the president But I will say this Right on his dick From a pure

Stop From the ask The only reason I could see somebody voting for him Is sort of a wish fulfillment thing Like I wish that That I could be this guy Who can get away with everything in life And grab him by the you know what

And do everything and be rich And not actually be rich But pretend you're rich by putting gold lame on everything. Like, I could see a wish fulfillment reason why you'd want to be in this guy's camp. I also see a reason why you would be in an actual camp if you're not the right color or gay. But that's a few years down the line. That's actually like two weeks away.

I will say this. The Washington Capitals held Russian Heritage Night this week. If Donald Trump, after eight years of Barack Obama not attending an NHL game, if Donald Trump attended an NHL game in his first two months, months in office and it was Russian Heritage Night at the Washington Capitals, given the current context, there would be a 0.000000,000, 17 more zeros times three more zeros, one increase in respect for the man for his ability to troll if he had done that. So is he trolling Obama?

Is he trolling America? He's trolling America and his enemies. by at the height of the Russian investigation, being the president who showed up at a hockey game, Washington on Russian Heritage Night, despite being the guy who was elected because of the Russians. Yeah, I would enjoy that. I would hope that T.J. O'Shee would strangle him to death with an American flag while Alex Ovechkin sang the Russian National Anthem over it. 17,000 zeros and then a one if after the game he posed with Ovechkin while Ovechkin wore a MAGA hat. I would just throw Twitter away at that point. How do you think he feels about Trump? Because he's such a Putin guy.

Like Putin, you know, Trump's Putin's guy. Ovechkans are a rich white dude who plays it. He's a from Russia. He likes Trump. There's no way he doesn't like it. You're probably right. Yeah. There's no if Sanjew.

That's why you never want to peel back the layers of the onion and find out how these guys really feel about. politics because you'd be so upset. Like every time somebody gets so upset when somebody makes like an off-color joke on Twitter, times that by a billion when you actually realize what these people think about. Like, oh my God, it would just be, it would just be endless. Because like, you would get it from like your political follows, you would get it from your sports follows, and it would just never, ever. And like, any time Ovechkin did something, it would just be like, oh, God. It's fine. It's okay. I'm sorry about Trump. I could see your despondent now. No, I'm just thinking about how the season's not over there. Talk about.

politics. It's the longest season. It's just so long. Well, the World Cup of hockey probably made it seem even longer. There's still two weeks to go in this season. The thing about the length of the season, obviously, is that you always have to be concerned about, you know,

the players getting enough rest and stuff. And that's why, you know, the quality of competition in the NHL is completely disrupted in a negative way when there's an Olympic break, according to Gary Bettman this week. Right. Of all the things, Another thing, too, I don't get this as well before we do the Olympics. In baseball, they do the World Baseball Classic every year.

Why don't we do the World Cup every year? Why is that not a... Why is it not on the table? Why is that not a thing? It took the World Baseball Classic like eight, nine years to get to the point now where people actually care about it. If you do the World Cup every four years, or even every two years, like, no one's ever going to give a shit about it, ever.

People are going to forget about it for a year or three. Why not just do it every year? Well, I think they want to make it like an actual... It's not. It's not the Olympics, Gary. They're trying to make it an actual... World Cup type thing. Who cares?

What would mean a World Cup type? Play it every year. What baseball? World Baseball classic. It's got a W and a C in there. It's basically a World Cup, only it's a classic cup. And they do it every year and like it's just, and you get more people into it if you do it yearly.

You do, if you make it this fucking every four years thing and don't let them go play in the Olympics, like no one's going to give a shit about it. No one's ever going to care. I just don't get how hockey does stuff, man. It's just so perplexing to me. I know. Listen, the latest. Olympic stuff this week is pretty amazing.

You have Renee Fasal saying that if the NHL doesn't come to Korea, they can't just go to China, negotiations will be much different. To which I say that unless the IOC decides to blow up its Olympic tournament and tries something completely different, you're basically going to have the best hockey league in the world with a 18-month spread of time to shit all over the Olympics and call it an inferior tournament. This is why you need an HL players.

This is what happens if you don't meet our demands. If you don't change the tournament to like four on four or something, like it's totally gonna bomb. It's gonna bomb. No one's gonna give a shit. Yeah.

You're right? So this idea that they can dig their heels in and be like, and then the other part of it too, that's hilarious is that like they're basically saying well, you know, if you don't go to South Korea, because you don't want to do this anymore,

then you won't be able to go to China despite, you know, not wanting to do this anymore. Right, like if you don't eat your meat. You can't have your pudding. Can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat. Yeah, they're going to go. This is the same thing. I think they're going to go to it.

It's a negotiation play. That's the thing, too, is like, I'm just so exhausted by this every day. Like yesterday or two days ago, somebody was like, breaking. Gary Betman says low level of interest in sending players. Yeah, breaking. That wasn't the news before that. Wow. Thanks for the breaking news that you got a quote from when Gary Betman was in your town and you put it on Twitter and said breaking.

It's the same thing you did. It's the same thing they do for every negotiation where they want to dick the players over. Yeah. And this is just a different version of that. But that said, like, and I think you and I disagree on this. Like, I completely see their side. Like, the NHL is completely in the right on a lot of this stuff because they don't get any benefit from it. They send their assets to the Olympics.

What does the NBA guys? and then all their guys. Well, first of all, it's in the summer. So it's the offseason. Well, then for injury purposes, I guess I understand it. Yeah. You have an injury risk. But besides that, what else?

Well, I think that they, I think the NBA and the NHL should both get benefit for having their players there. I think in both cases, it increases the level of visibility for the Olympics in the winter, even more so than the summer because the summer, I mean, basketball in the summer Olympics, you can say is more like a naval gazing, stargazing kind of thing, right? Like, there's enough in the summer Olympics that make you really want to watch it. But in the winter, hockey's one of the top three sports. Like, hockey is a reason you tune in to watch it, right, along with figure skating and maybe, like, skiing if people fall.

There's probably more watchable winter events, more popular events in winter. If it's an argument about winter versus summer Olympics is a no-brainer. I mean, winter Olympics are better. Yeah, but in summer, though, what else was there besides basketball? Track and field. Who won gold? Name a gold medal winner in two events from the track and field that just happened. You same boat.

and Mo Farrow or whatever that guy's name but track and field swimming gymnastics like basketball you can argue is going to be like your number three your number four sport at the most right so in the winter it's you can argue it's figure skating in hockey and everything else so I get their argument but again

like I'm on the NHL side in the sense that like they should be able to profit from the Olympics they should be able to sell Olympic themed shit in the NHL store but like what's different between now and four years ago like are they asking for more is the Iowa giving them less?

They asked for more than there was a leadership change in the IOC, and then they got a lot less, like nothing. And now they're just trying to build up to the previous levels. So I get what they're saying, but I also agree with you that I think it's a negotiating employee. And ultimately, I agree with the players, which is that it's important to go for the growth of the sport and because it's the best hockey you could watch for that period of time, I mean, completely selfishly. I just don't get why we don't hear about this with the NBA before every summer Olympics.

There's ever like a negotiation where like Michael Silver or David Stern is like, not Michael, is that Michael Silver? Michael Silver? Michael Silver is 9002-0. Adam Silver. Yeah. Who's Michael Silver. Michael Silver is 902-O-O-N-O-W. Wait, that was David Silver. Who is Michael Silver?

Michael Silver. That's not Ron Silver from the great movie, The Arrival. Oh, and also Ron Silver from the great movie Time Cop, in which he meets himself and then touches himself and then they become a giant blob. Right. He's the bad dude. Michael Silver is, of course, an American sports writer and television channels who worked at Yahoo and Sports Illustrated. He wrote the book. He wrote the book about the... The thing with the guys?

The thing with the guys. Didn't he read a book? Yeah, he wrote... Oh, no, I'm thinking of something else. But he's a sports writer. That's what you're thinking of. The point is, I don't hear those guys in the media for months before the Summer Olympics bitching about how they're not getting enough. They just go.

They just know it's good and they just go and it's not a problem ever. And again, I understand the whole in-season, not in-season thing, but overall, like, there's never ever any resistance from the NBA about going. I think my problem with the Olympic debate is that it is a very nuanced argument. It's a really interesting debate. There's valor on both sides of the debate as far as who's in the right and who's in the wrong. But it boils down in so many people's minds to just more F-U, Betman, you effing suck, you ruin our effing sport. He's earned that. He's earned, he's earned, the fans have earned the right to wonder if he's ever telling the truth and to automatically think he's doing something stupid and fucking things up.

So I'm totally fine with that. From our standpoint, there may not be any next steps. Remember, this is February. There's no baseball. There's no football. It's just us in basketball and we just disappear. We don't get content from the NHL for the, we don't get content for the NHL network. Oh, whoa.

are the NHL network ratings and that's two and a half week period of time that they don't get content for the NHL network. We'll have to throw on a few more top 10 shows and such. There has never been a person who sees the big picture less than

Gary Betten. We don't get any content for our social media platforms in NHL.com. Why did we do it five times? So he's negotiating for gifts. We don't get any gifts on the NHL Twitter. Why did we do it five times? Probably because we took a special pill. Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time, but we've been unable to quantify

any benefit from it. So again, like that last line, we haven't been able to quantify any benefit from it. I agree with that, but then also feel like it's horseshit. I agree that there is no actual palpable benefit you could point at and say the NHL is better for having gone to the Olympics. And yet at the same time, I feel like he's not saying this if the Olympics are in Vancouver. because he didn't say this in the Olympics for in Vancouver. Yeah, he's full of shit. Again, I'm fine with people hearing that and just saying he's full of shit and not wanting to have a nuanced argument because all this is negotiating in the media and negotiating in the public and that's all it is.

And eventually they'll just go. Well, listen. I still say they're going to go. I don't know. I don't know what is. And it taints. It ruins it too because. It ruins what?

Him bishing for six months and then giving in and saying, all right, fine, they can go. like you think about that as the Olympics you're just like I don't want to think about Gary Bettman during the Olympics I want to just watch the Olympics like when I go to Vegas I'm deleting Twitter for my phone doing slack from my phone I'm not going to think about the outside world forever the Olympics are like that for the NHL because again as our guest Dimitri will tell you hockey's great the NHL blows the Olympics are just hockey and so you can forget about that but no you got to have Gary Bettman just be like well we need to get

content for the social media like shut the fuck up just let him go these fucking owners too fucking Melnick oh yeah Eugene Melnick Eugene Melnick saying that he would let Eric Carlson

go to the Olympics if he was a Canadian which by the way I kind of love that I kind of love the idea that that is you're so Canadian that you wouldn't

that's that you're so honest about being that Canadian like could you imagine if like the situation was like he was like Kyle Turris you can go play in the Olympics sorry Eric

you can't go yeah because you'd hurt our chances that would have good I love that Oh my God, that'd be so great. I love the people that run this league.

Ted Leones is being like, Alex, I really respect everything that you do for us. But TJ's going to go, but you can't go. I'm sorry. And like the NHL sets it up, but they only send like their worst goalies. Sorry, Auntie Niemie and Cari Lattin are the only two goalies for Finland. Jim, I was like, go ahead, go. Yeah, but Brofsky, we decided there's a rule that doesn't allow players that played for, the flyers and the blue jackets to go.

And also, I guess this means that Russia's goalie is Sergey piece of shit off. So, uh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. So, Semyon, you're going to represent Russia. I just had surgery. I don't care. Get out there, get out there and pop your stitches, buddy.

God, that'd be beautiful. This is the league. This is the league that we watch and talk about and write about. This is the league that we watch and talk about the guardians of hockey. The league of Shad does. Lead of Shat Doze. I was born in the Shat Doze. You were really adopted it.

I was born going the World Championships. Not during the Olympics. I didn't see any benefit for me to do that. What lovely, lovely ice. Speaking of lovely ice, in the dry ice in which this product comes in, Blue Apron! Here's the deal with... So, Christi...

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That to me sounds like the meeting of East Meese West a little bit, a little pork chop and apple and miso butter and bok choy. You know? We can change. We can come together. I don't know why I did that because that's a Russian versus an American movie. If I can cook, you can cook. Vegetable chili and baked sweet potatoes with crispy tortilla strips and spicy shrimp, coconut curry with cabbage and rice.

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Blue Apron, a better way to cook. Let's cook up something on the Vesina Trope we thing real quick before we get to our guest. You and I had a really serious debate before this show. We almost came to blows over the idea that Cam Talbot might be fourth right now in the Vesina race. You always do this. You always debate one thing off the mic and then you come out.

Okay, I'll just say it. I think he could be top three, but I don't know who he kicks out. Yeah, like it's Bobrovsky. It's Dubnick. Now, do you think Bobrovsky's moved ahead of Dubbik? Pryce as well? Based on how the wild have struggled. Do you think he's moved ahead of him?

Remember, it's the GMs that vote for this. Not the brightest bulbs in the world. Sergey Bobrovsky's Russian. Devin Dubnik is... Is not. Neither is Braden Holby or Carrie Price. That would be the most amazing GM thing of all time that just leave Sergey Robowski off completely.

Right. It's just not his time yet. Yeah, Captain Talbot's not a Vezono finalist. He's got a very good season. He's just not... No, he's had an exceptional season. There... No one has faced more high danger shot attempts than Camtel, but he has made a porous...

High danger would be a really good James Franco, Seth Rogen movie. Where they're weeds... They sell weed by skydiving into countries. And that's how they avoid the border. Pull your suit, man! What the fuck? Drop that fucking bong! shoot man all right is that James Franco or Seth Rogen because I don't know much fun to do

you would have to do a James Franco but how do you do a James Franco he's like a chameleon he's like a you just do spring breakers I feel like you just talk like did you just do the the pineapple express voice are we best I can't I can't and I can't do spring breakers that's basically McConaughey I've never seen spring break all right all right all right what's a plot of that like the teen it's hot hot teen yeah you would love it it's hot teen girls that uh Rob Banks and or like rip off people are just do robberies or shit. And he's like their

pimp overlord type guy. They were like hot milk. Ask all your teens about it. They'll tell you how good it is. I don't know, man. Going back to that the teen chat, anything I thought teens were into, like Demi Lovato.

They were like, fuck Demi Lovato. Dude, no one knows what teens like. They don't, you just don't. I know what teens like. We put Camtelbeth forth, but I agree with you.

I don't know if you can... The two clear finalists are Dubnick based on the entire body of work, although he stumbled late, and Bobrovsky, who's been amazingly all the way through, and really is, you know, top three goalies in the league maybe,

based on the last few years, if he's healthy. But then I think Holphee's going to be sort of your carryover, defending champ legacy pick. And it's going to... The problem with any NHL award is that you've got to make,

the harder the case is to make, the less likely that player is going to win the award or be a finalist. And in Cam Talbot's case, you have the work rate in the number of games, obviously, but you have to do some heavy lifting to kind of show, you know, a 922 save percentage of 232. It's really good, but maybe not as good as the other finalists,

and you've got to do a little bit more heavy lifting to show how good he is. Yeah, I mean... Who wins it in your eyes? I think Dubnick still wins it? Like, I do think the whole Russian-Canadian thing is going to be a thing, but six shutouts, Doobnik only has five.

Oh, I know. You were really taxing. It's a good thing you're not a general manager or else you'd have a real conundrum on your hands. Oh, if I was a general manager, I just would have voted for the Canadian guy 20 minutes ago and just went out on my day. The other thing that's interesting about it

is the geographic thing, right? Because you have two Eastern Conference guys that are potential finalists, and then you have one in the West and Dubnick, and how is the West going to break? Well, I mean, I wonder how many of those guys remember Bob being in the West and being like, yeah, he is good.

Scott Darling is going to win it. Now, let's talk about Scott Darling. Let's talk about my boy, Scott Darling. Yeah, let's talk about future Vegas Golden Knight starting goaltender, Scott Darling. It's going to be. Sure. By the way, guys with better state percentages than Corey Crawford this year are Scott Darling and Auntie. Corey Crawford, one of the best co-lies in the world, quote-unquote.

Do you think Cory Crawford's counterfeit? Because I used to think that a little bit, but I don't think so anymore. He's John Quick. He's another version of John Quick. But John Quick's not counterfeit. wait, what does counterfeit mean? I thought counterfeit mean like... Like fake?

Yeah, like he's not as good as everybody thinks he says. Yeah, but John Quick's not as good as everybody thinks he is because he got overpaid and because he had the nerve to be really good in the playoffs. He was never, no, there's nothing to do with the contract. You think he's just a product of that system? Yes. You don't think he actually won a cup by being that good. Well, for two months he was good in the playoffs for sure.

So how is Jonathan Quick any different than Tim Thomas? Explain that to me. Because Tim Thomas won two? Okay, okay, great, but But to me, like, Tim Thomas played him back, Tim Thomas played him back of two parts of the Trinity. He played him back of Bergeron and Zadano Chara

and he played in Julian's system. So how come he is seen, why, because he does more flipping and flopping? Because his numbers were so much better than Jonathan Quicks. So you think Cory Crawford is Jonathan Quicks? Yes, he's very much like Jonathan Quick. I think I'd rather have Corey Crawford than Jonathan Quig,

but Corey Crawford is very much I mean, you want to compare Scott Darling's numbers in Chicago next to Corey Crawford's and tell me Scott Darling wouldn't have won cups if he was the number one? To dollars to donuts. Donuts being Scott Darling, dollars being Cory Crawford. Oh, my two favorite things, fried dough and money. You expose Cory Crawford if you could? I don't think you can, by the, I'm probably sure he's got a no move, but would you expose

Cory Crawford? Yeah, for sure. Oh, without even thinking about it, I would. Wow, and keep Scott Darling. And keep Scott Darling. Keep the plug-in journeyman. In 15 years, when people talk about Corey Crawford's two cups, no one's going to remember that Scott Darling won the first round for them

when Corey Crawford was puking on himself against the predators. And then Corey Crawford came in. It was fine the last three rounds. But elite goaltenders don't need their backup to come in and win a series for them because they can't make a save against Mike Fisher. It just doesn't happen. He's also 32. I didn't realize Cory Crawford was that old.

It took a while for him to get the job. Yeah, yeah. He waited in the wings forever. I guess the Tim Thomas argument might be the Scott Darling argument though

like Darling I think is a is a product of his background in some ways people see him a certain way because of the way he came up he wasn't like preordained elite goalie kind of guy

but that neither was Thomas you're talking yourself into it now I like it I like Darling a lot I think he's going to be a great when the Golden Knights meet the Blackhawks in the playoffs next year it's going to be really

fascinating to see Darling versus Crawford in the first round I honestly if there's one thing I can't wait for that this time next year is going to be the Las Vegas Golden. What are they again? Yeah, Las Vegas Golden Knights. Just the Vegas Golden Knights.

When they're mathematically eliminated with a month to go. When you're out in Vegas, are you going to do some intel on what they're thinking about hockey? Well, I'm staying at George McPhee's house. So I'm assuming he probably locks down his computers. So I'm going to try and hack in and just see what the draft strategy is. Dave. Darren, Darren, Elm or Thomas Vanek, which one? Oh, my God.

I cannot wait. I cannot wait to see the results of that expansion draft. That team is going to be so fucking hard. That's going to be great. It's going to be so fucking bad. I promise to get a whoever they take first. If there's a way to say who they took first, I'll get that jersey. That's my vow on the show.

Yeah, that's another part of it, too. They're not going to have like a first pick if they do it in secret and it's just the one team. With the first pick, boo! I know, I love you too. You're going to want to hear this. With him? Valteri Philpola. No, you can't have to protect him, actually, I think.

That's not a good one. Trevor Van Reimsdyke, Chicago Blackhawks. Actually, I think Darling's contract expires, so he's not even going to be a guy. Yeah, he's just going to be UFA. They're just to sign him straight away. Four years, 32 million. Next can't tell. By the way, my answer is Sergey Barowski, because he's going to have the most wins.

And that's always what the Vesina and voters look at first, because they're stupid. Before we get to a... our guest, Demetri Filipovich, of the PDO cast and Sportsnet, a real smart dude who has some smart things to say about analytics and stuff. You're going to enjoy it. Good hair. We have to do, oh, God, impeccable hair. It's funny. He didn't know, he didn't know what George Lucas looked like in the 1970s. Because you'll hear this story in the interview, he throws in the, he throws in a little nugget that he got into analytics during his second year at university, right? While the Canucks were playing the Bruins for this. He's like, he's like seven years old. He's like a kid. He's like a

child. Like a prodigy, though. Yeah. I love the, I wish that. I wish that. my theory about him was true that he got into analytics to try to, like, his life's mission was to try to figure out how the fuck Boston beat Vancouver in that playoff series. Right. Like, I wish that was the thing. Like, it just became his obsession in life. Like, fucking Foxmolder trying to prove why UFOs exist because the sister got about to be. Like, I wanted that to be the origin story.

Like Ryan Reynolds with the board. Like, how did this, this rat who took human form who beat the shit into my swede and his team win the cup and we burned our city down? now like five years later he's gonna be a heart finalist okay no it's all starting to click in oh yeah yeah we don't know if we've done his show since the brad marshand uh heart thing happened but like it it i guarantee you the way that hockey writers think is you you have to reach a certain standard in life before you can win an award or be a finalist for the award and the brad marchand can play with sidney crosby at the world cup was the thing he had to pass so he passed that test oh you think oh you think he's gonna be in the top three i think burns is going to win the norris and then

And then Marchand's going to be the top three for the heart. I really do. But, like, I feel like that goes against hockey writer things where they'll just say Crosby carried him. Like, Crosby's, he was a product of Crosby to Olympics. No, but he could. But hockey writers have seen, there are the, the highways around with broken players. There's so many guys who tried to play with Cid and couldn't, that to see somebody who could play with Cid automatically elevates you. For fuck's sake.

Again, they couldn't play with Cid. Remember that? Like, that was a big thing. Yeah. Yeah, there was a whole thing. Castle couldn't play with him. Like, it takes a certain special guy to play with him, and I think he'll get that love. Real quick, tournament of hockey commentators, March, mute this.

Rolls on. The second round is, I feel like the first round, we had more blowouts than I thought. Yeah, we had some pretty big blowouts in the first round. The voting was taking place in the Puck Soup podcast, Twitter. It is all of the hockey commentators. You wish you could mute, March, mute this. Real quick, second round matchup. Pierre McGuire versus Eddie O

an interesting matchup in the sense that they hate each other. Yeah. This is like in the NCAA tournament getting a second round matchup of like Duke and Carolina. Michigan State. Just two fucking teams that hate each other.

Semifinal, Don Cherry versus Barry Melrose. Yeah, American Don Cherry versus Don Cherry. Yeah, it's a good rivalry matchup. A lot of good rivalries in the second round. Over in the other side of the bracket, Mike Milbury, who really thratched the old guy who fills in for Liam. I got to say, I feel like the seating committee did a really good job

seeding these things. Because people were like Stigerwald at 14. Well, he didn't show up. Milbury will face off against Jeff O'Neill, who beat Darren Drager in an upset, a 10-7 upset. I'm surprised by that. And then Jack Edwards against Jeremy Ronek, which might be the most compelling second-round matchup, yeah. That's the CBS primetime game.

Slipping out on Saturday. That's gonna be the good one. Who do you give odds on that one? I mean Edwards was a sixth seed, Ronek a three seed. See, I underestimated the hate for Butchie, so I maybe I'm misreading it like I feel like Ronick should win that in a walk, but I don't know. I don't hate Jack Edwards as much as people. I don't either. I think it really depends on who catches wind of our of our bracket. Like all of a sudden Montreal realizes we're doing this. I have a pretty good chance that Ronek makes that gets upset in that That's like a round. It seemed like Pittsburgh Twitter was all over and still Stygi. Stygi just never, he was out of it. It was like a game that started with like a 20-0 run and they just never caught up. So will it be Pierre versus Milbury in the final?

Or will we have a momentous upset like Duke being beaten by whoever beat them? South Carolina. Broke your brackets, I bet. Dude, I had the most amazing first two days of the tournament I've had in years. And on Saturday, every game went against it. Any upset I had didn't happen, and every upset I didn't have happened. Notre Dame, Villanova, all these fucking teams. I was in London this weekend because Ruby surprised me with a birthday trip.

And I could tell you as a point of fact, which I didn't realize, you know how sometimes you can travel the world and see American sporting events while you're traveling abroad? Because I'll just be on television. Oh, boy, they don't give a shit about NCAA basketball. Oh, no. No one does. You couldn't find it. The second Villanova lost, I was like, I don't really care about it. When we come back, though, a special quiz I've created for Dave Lozo.

I know you love when I gave Lozo quizzes that may have something to do with Jolly Oat England and Lich to City. Lichchester City, you bugger. All right, here's Dimitri Filipovich. Dmiti Filipovich is a writer and a podcaster for Sportsnet in Canada. A consumer of tacos. You may know him from such podcasts as the PDO cast in which I appeared this week. And you may also know him as that really smart guy. guy on Twitter that you read to find out why your opinions are incorrect.

Oh, Tyler Dello? He's Tyler Della? I didn't say the guy on Twitter who tells you why your opinions are incorrect. I said he's the guy that you read. Is he the guy with the charts, with the circles and the stuff? Different genres of intellectual hockey Twitter people that dabble in numbers. There's the people that you read from afar as they spout off amazingly smart things and you don't want to interact with them because you don't want to seem dumb. And I think Dimitri fits into that square.

Wait, because he's afraid that he's dumb? No, no, you don't interact with him because you're afraid that you're dumb. You're not smart enough to talk to Dimitri. I interact with Dimitri. I'm not saying you. I mean, the collective you as fans. Oh, because they're so dumb. You're saying fans are dumb?

Yes. Jesus, Greg. What an intro. Then there are the analytics people like Delo who will tell you why you're dumb. And I would put Ryan, Park Daddy's own Ryan Lambert on that too. He will tell you why you're dumb.

Oh, every day. I get texts out of just randomly during the course of my day. That tells me why I'm stupid. You taste the music stuck. Music movies, close.

You didn't get the new... Why idiotocity is a documentary more and more as we can be wasting your time eating that hot dog when you could be listening to run the jewels. So that's another one. And then you have the people

who literally know too much about hockey so they need to pour, their knowledge is pouring out of their ears, like the poster for the Terry Gillian movie Brazil to the point where they have to make charts. Oh, Cam Sharon. I love that guy.

They have to be... Works for the Leafs now, right? He doesn't exist anymore. Oh, he doesn't? That's the fourth kind of analytics person, which is the person who used to exist. Should I be writing this down? The person who used to exist, but they no longer exist because they get hired by teams. Now they're ghosts. They're literally like just ghosts. They visit you at night. Oh, and like

they just spend all their time in this encased thing. So they're basically just ghosts in a shell. That's right. They're ghosts in a shell, Right. And you're like, and they're like, oh, I'm the ghost of analytics past. You're like, Vic Ferrari, what are you doing in my bedroom? Vic Ferrari. That was, that was the, that's, that was Jim Corssey's name when he went on car message boards, right? That's how that works. That's been 2.35 and we haven't actually had anything to say from Dimitri. He actually left. He walked out at minute one.

I'm admiring this masterpiece. Am I allowed to speak? I didn't want to get. Do you think everything we said is accurate? I guess so. I'll take your word for it. You stop listening at like the 42nd. You are such a part of this community. Tell us why. Tell us if it's difficult to be surrounded by so many people that are constantly arguing. It's so frustrating.

It's like counterproductive. Like has anyone ever benefited from any of these crazy deranged arguments that happen online? Like I don't. I mean, I think that much like religious scholars, it's a quest for truth. It's a quest for enlightenment and a quest for truth, but at the end of the day, everybody is so heels dug in in their own ideology that you can never find that enlightenment. Enough about politics, though. I'm thinking of a guy like Neil Greenberg, who's a writer for the Washington Post now, who I think is one of these guys that doesn't have a lot of fans in the analytics community because of the things that he believes in, but yet is also. a guy who has gotten work, and there are people who read him and believe in his stuff.

And it's always fascinated me that it's not homogenous. You know, there are certain aspects of analytics that people believe in, but at the end of the day, everybody believes that their path to enlightenment is the true one. Have you ever been on the receding end of a Steve Birch? Oh, yes. Storm? Yes. Not a long time, but I have. That's a great example.

That's a guy who really believes his voodoo is the deadliest. and his kung fu is a deadliest as well. And his voodoo kung fu is a deadliest. I find his explanations to be head spinning. I need dramamine when I get done reading some of his Twitter rings. He has like a special thing that he made up, right? The decourse. The decoursecy, yes.

I mean, I'm not going to, you guys can make the jokes if you want. I don't really understand. I mean, the joke of the decorsi is that, you know, he had this entire thing where he was trying to tell everyone how Jake Muzon is better at hockey than Drew Doughty because he was better in this one metric he made up. Hmm. I believe that Jake Meuseon's probably better than Drew Doughty because I just don't think Drew Doughty's that good.

Yeah, I know. You're a bit of a Drew Doughty hater. Fuck, Drew Doughty. Yeah, I know. Are we a lot to swear on this, right? Oh, fucking A, right. Fuck, yeah, man. Well, actually, we had a request to my listener.

She's like, can you do a clean podcast this week? So that went out the window. That went out of a window a while ago. Oh, it was this week, too? She's been in there before. Oh. Remember that episode? We did totally nude as a response to that to sort of like,

we didn't tell anybody, but three episodes ago it was totally new. That was the, who was our guest that week, three weeks ago? So, Johnson McGinley? He was new to. Is there a certain pressure on people within the community to come up with their own gimmick and then name it? Like, you know, obviously we all harken back to Korsi and Fenwick. Is there a certain competition to come up with your own acronyms to feel important?

For sure. And I think that there's people out there much smarter than myself, you know, the data program. is data scientists that put all this stuff together and come up with all these formulas that I personally can't do myself and I never pretend to. So I instead, I still think there's a value in just interpreting the data that's out there and that other people present to you. And I think that's what I try to do. Like I'm never going to come. You're never going to see the Filipovic metric unless it's something stupid and made up. What could it stand for? The Philpovich metric is first in line in person.

We gotta get a hockey term in there at some point. Corsi. There it is, and that tells you which team has the best. The C stands for Corsi. Predictive. Philipovich, the C stands for Corsi. There we go. There it is.

I guess I lied. We just made it up. It's for filling up the net. The Philip. Right. It's, oh, no. Obviously, it's Philip Foresburg over. Come on.

We're waiting. Vanick. In Corses. which is probably not true. I'm sure Vanek's probably good. How do you deal with a guy like Vanek? Look at that shift into it. This is why you're a podcast.

Is like the streakiest guy. Tell me. You're a great statistician. Thomas Vanek is a pretty streaky player. How do you deal with a streaky player like Thomas Vanek? Do you, do you, is he a guy that you trust or a guy that you don't trust as an analytics guy? trust him to do what like deliver a child

make a drop pass on a breakaway yes there's plenty of guys like that where I think that there's a value for them on your team they're probably not going to be the guy you're building your team around and playing on the first line and featuring him but I think if he's a complimentary player for you playing on your third line and occasionally in the power play

like there's plenty of value in that so one of the first times that I remember analytics Stop. Why are you laughing? I like when you go on a yarn. You just spin a yarn about back in 1993, when I was a devil's fan, let me tell you about analytics back then. There was a guy by the name of Neil Broughton

playing for the Minnesota, and it's just, okay, let's see where this goes. It's more of an Andy Rooney. Do you ever notice? He always gets stuck with a shopping cart with the wiggly wheel. No. Is Steve Ott that wiggly wheel, Dimitri?

Yes. One of the first times, I remember analytics colliding with hockey analysis was a guy who I would consider in that streaky, you forgive the sins overall class, which was Alex Semen, where there would be times when Alex Semen would just fucking disappear from the face of the earth, go back to his home planet. But there would always be the argument that, no, no, no, you have to understand what this guy does even when he's not producing.

And I always thought he was one of the first guys in the analytics era that people point to and say, No, no, no, no, no. You're wrong about this guy. Stop throwing around the word enigmatic, you assholes. I think even more than what a guy like Semin was producing, what he was contributing when he wasn't necessarily scoring goals and setting up other goals is that we tend to get too focused on, like, recency bias and focusing on what happened in the last game or in the last couple games, and you kind of need to look at this stuff as a totality.

So I think that with Semin, it's like what he does overall is worth it, regardless of whether he has a five-game stretch where he looks like he doesn't care and he isn't trying. There's always like one or two guys for me that are always good analytics, bad to watch. And like Keith Yandel was that guy for me. Keith Yandel, watching him for a year and a half in New York was just an absolute neutral zone, defensive zone turnover machine. And he could skate. He always make up for his mistakes because he was a good skater. And so you see Florida give him seven years.

And I just think to myself how his legs are going to go over the next seven years and how he's going to get exposed over that time. Like, do you, do you, I know you guys hate the eye test. Yeah. But, no, I, I, I agree with you there. And I think that also, you weren't wrong to critique that signing. Like, I would be very reticent of giving anyone approaching 30, that kind of term. Right, right, right. That's, that's, I always get asked, I know we're going to talk about the Sloan conference and, and what happened there a few weeks ago.

Fucking spoilers, Demetri. Jesus. But one of the big topics that always comes up with, when I do interviews like this is what's the next thing we can improve on in hockey and hockey and ice. and what's the next wave? And I think it's something that we've been working on for a while, but GMs still struggle with it so badly, and it's aging curves. Like, just understanding that a guy is probably going to peak when he's, like, 24, 25 years old, rather than 30, 32, and when we have thought years ago.

And it's like, we just do this stuff time and time again, where you see this guy that signs in seven-year-a-deal when he's 28 and two years in, he falls off completely, and people are wondering, well, what happened? What's wrong with Dustin Brown? I don't know. I don't get it. It's weird, though, because I feel like a time.

they know it based on how they'll take like Nikita Kutra off they know like all right let's just give him the smallest possible deal we know and then second that contract ends you think okay now they can get him for less but then you're right then they got then you have like brent and burns yeah i love brent burns i don't know if i love that contract no no that's going to be a tough one right like but like i get it to you from the standpoint of you have to pay with the market forces you to pay because if brem burns gets the up the market if you're the sharks and dug Wilson, you can't let him walk out the door. Yeah.

Well, and that's the thing. I think the majority of these long-term contracts that we see are very much short-term thinking. You have to pay the freight for the extra four years, you know, on a deal, but you know that your window to win is in three years, and that player is still going to be productive. Except for Ryan Kessler. I don't understand what that was happening there. Like, that window wasn't open for more than 20 minutes.

You mean 2016-17 Selkie winner, Ryan Kessler? Oh, my God. The Kessler Renaissance that's happening? sir. Yeah, he's fantastic. Before we get you far down the road, how the hell did you get into this? How'd you get smart? Tell us how to be smart. Tell us about your brain. When did I see the light?

Around like 2011, I was still, I think I was like first or second year university and I was living in Vancouver and the Canucks made their cup run and everyone locally was very excited about the team. So you're like, how did we lose to these piece of shit blockheads? Yeah. I have to find out. I have to get into the numbers and find out. I was still kind of skeptical at a time, but I met and started hanging out with the guys

like Cam Chiron and Thomas Drans, who were doing kind of like the analytics OGs, really trying to get this stuff out there. And I was still kind of skeptical. And then the Kings swept the Canucks in the first round the next year as an eighth seed. And the only person that called it was Thomas Drans, who wrote this long preview before the series, highlighting how the Kings were doing at 5-on-5 after they acquired Jeff Carter. and they were just dominating the shot metrics and I remember at the time

it seemed like a crazy thing and no one else was buying it and then the Kings went on to win the cup and at that point I was like maybe there's some logic to this stuff and then that's... So you see Lozo. Drance is like Scorsese he's the first guy that got a movie made and then like Sharon's like

Spielberg right Dimitri is George Lucas because he looks like fucking George Lucas did in the seven days that's that's what George Lucas used to look like in the 70s. That's my... That's beard and hair profile.

Yeah. And so this is where they all... This is the beginnings of the analytics movement. And they were all in the West Coast. This reminds me of a topic I always see on Twitter with analytics people. It's show your work. Yeah. Is there...

Are there certain people in the analytics world now that you feel like maybe those snake oil people? Are there people in the analytics community who jump to the back of the math book and then copy the answers to every odd question? And then just scribble a bunch of... shit on top of them to make it look like they did work like maybe someone on this podcast did to get through math in high school. Are you guys familiar with the name Mike Kelly? Yes.

The CSN stats guy? Oh, the 106.7 guy. So I've really toned down my internet arguments and getting too riled up with people's comments regardless of how stupid they are. What's that like? Mike Kelly is one dude that I just, every time he says anything. And you know what? He's reached this elite stratosphere of analyst where

sometimes I'm unsure of my opinion, but then I look and just completely disagree with everything he said. And I'm like, oh, maybe I was on the right track. Like, maybe I'm Montas on the here because he's actually been completely wrong on every single thing he's ever said. In terms of hockey, I don't know him personally. I'm sure he's a nice guy. No, but it's interesting because, I mean, the analytics movement has been framed as the fact check on journalists and especially calmness for a long time. and as a guy who is a columnist, I know that there are people

who are completely full of shit, Steve Simmons, and then there are ones that aren't. And it's interesting that you point out, Lozo, that in the analyst community that there are also people who are selling a false bill of goods. But is that just simply not knowing how to read the numbers

or choosing to, and I say this as an American, believe their own set of facts? I think sometimes it's tough, like if you want to get a story out there and you have a bunch of numbers. Like sometimes you, it's very tempting to just cherry pick numbers

that support what you want to say even if that's not necessarily the actually, factually, the correct thing to do. And I think that's where people sometimes get into trouble. What do you think of John Chaka? Because I've heard some things where people don't necessarily know what his, I guess, again,

to show your work stuff. GM of the Arizona Coyotes for the uninitiated. Yes. For those that don't follow. For those who don't. Not an HL teams. For those in Quebec. who simply know that team has fuck versus anything else.

Well, by all accounts, he's a super bright guy, but, I mean, he is one of those guys where you can't really check any of the work just because he comes from the Stathleads company where they're like this proprietary data tracking company, and no one has access to their information. So it's like you can't tell whether all they're really selling a snake well or whether there's anything to this. But based on this season, you have to just pretty much decide

that this is going to total. snake oil. Come on. Come on. I've been told that the panthers struggles and the coyote struggles are direct results of analytics being. I can't. The Panthers, I feel like it's less analytics. I think it's more just, like you give a bunch of people a bunch of money after one good season. Yeah. Like it's just human nature maybe to let down a little bit. And at the same time, the goaltending, it's just, there's so many factors to it, but it's not just because they went out and said, hey, analytics are good, and now they're bad.

That's not how it works. They made a deal with the devil's. Yeah. For one year to lose to the island, there's the first round the worst deal of all time. Well, I mean, they did make a deal with the devils, the Savard deal. Now, you bring up the Panthers, and that's an interesting one. That's obviously where our good friend Thomas Drance is plying his trade. You worked for a team.

I don't know if you're allowed to talk about it or not. No, we can't get into any details. Right. You worked for a team. Yes. How did you feel looking around and, seeing everybody get it

it's like fucking being in Seattle during the 90s and all the bands get a record contract yeah

and you know I mean there's probably someone out there that ended up being mud honey and didn't get any record

contract but like but what did you feel about the whole analytics thing blowing up or you guys became like

the sexy hires for these teams where they were like in Toronto's case literally announcing a new department yes of analytics

did you feel like some of these teams were disingenuous. They were just doing it for appearances, or did you feel like everybody had earned their keep and they're getting their chance to make a difference? Yes. I mean, obviously I'm biased here because it would benefit my career, but I think every team should be doing what the Leafs are doing, because a lot of these teams try to just hire one guy just so they can send out a press release or maybe appease whatever guilty conscience they might have about doing their job and then all of a sudden it's like, well, we have an analytics guy. That must mean we've

conquered the analytics market and that just not how it works. Like, no one in right mind would tell you that they know everything and they can do everything themselves. And if they are, you should be very skeptical of what that person actually is trying to sell to you. As someone who can't talk specifically, can you talk about resistance to things you wanted to do there in a general? I mean, there's just a... Or non-resistance.

Maybe people were like, wow, this is a great idea. You should run the team and you were like, thanks. Either way, either way. Now, still the GEOCent team. That sounds great. No, it's not like that at all, actually. Um, it's, it's, there's a lot of resistance and it's a lot of just indifference, really, which is kind of the worst part. It's like when your parents tell you they're not mad, they're disappointed.

It's kind of like that. It's like, I'd much rather the person actually look at my work and be like, I completely disagree, but this is why. And then they actually have some sort of argument to show that they've really thought about it. Whereas a lot of times, it's kind of like you just look at a piece of paper and then you just kind of just like shredded. And that's the extent of the analytics department. You're explaining stuff like, sir, that's actually a decimal point. That's not a period. That ends a sentence.

That's just a decimal point between a whole number and a fraction of a number at the end. That's what that means. And they're just like, get out of here. What did you think of that situation where that dude in Montreal got turfed for apparently, like, voicing his opinion about the Suban trade? I mean, in your experience, is that something that would have happened if you had really vehemently stood up and said, I don't agree with this thing? And you said, it's the wrong person. Sorry. I got like a little thing coming over here.

I think, I mean, it depends. right, like, you have to approach this stuff tactfully, just with any job. Like, you can't really go up to your boss and just tell them they're an idiot to don't they know anything. And I think that if you do that, you probably are going to get fired

for most of your gigs. So you have to, sometimes you have to pick your battles. Obviously, that was a pretty big one. And it would have been pretty tough to sleep a night if I was like cashing checks from that team. And I was like, you know what?

You're right, boss. Let's do this thing. Share ever shoots the puck really hard. We were talking on, On the PDO cast, the Demetri's podcast, about how much I'm afraid of Montreal winning the cup this year. How so? Why is that? If they win the cup after making the Suban trade and like how do you undo that not?

Like how do you make the counter argument to the Sue ban trade was unsuccessful? Oh, by the way, the Havs won the cup and Shay Weber played 27 minutes a night. Oh, and he won the consmite. And they beat the Preds in four. P.K. P.K. Subband's like minus 11. No, no. That's just it. Sue ban's a minus seven when the Preds was in the first round.

Like, that would be the narrative. Yeah. That's my... To go back to what you said before, like, I legitimately worry... Listen, the analytics movement's going to be fine. I think it's past a sniff test. I think it's, you know, it's well understood that it's that these things can be, you know, if not necessarily predictive, at least tell us why things happened.

Right. Why are the king so bad even though? Well, hold on. Oh, you were doing. Are you doing rent? I want to go off on a rent. No, no, no. I'm not going to run.

I'm just saying that I do worry, though, that, you know, it's going to be a tougher hill to climb. The more times we see a John Chaka fuck up or not find success or the more times that we see the team that makes the really bad illogical trade get short-term results from it. Even if at the time of the Sub-Ban trade, we all said, it's going to be. fine for the next couple of years until there's a steep drop off in Weber's game. Right. I do get worried about that. And so I'm actively rooting against the success of Montreal because I don't want them to have the high ground in this argument. Well, we see that on a smaller scale now with the Oilers where there's like all this

rewriting of history of what's happened over the past however many years. It's like, well, Adam Larson's here. And for all the people that thought getting rid of Taylor Hall was a mistake, this team is winning. And it's like, people struggle like keeping too. two thoughts in their mind at the same times. And I was like, the Oilers can be good because of other things. And also, they'd probably be better if they had Taylor Hall instead of Adam Larson. Right. Both those things can be true.

And also, what I consider to be the real X factor, Connor McDavid being drafted. I didn't know. I didn't know he was part of that package for Taylor Hall. Yeah, it's like, it's like when they look at the way they built that team and everything else, it's just like, yeah, but you literally have the best, arguably the best player in the world. It's like the movie Moneyball where they don't talk about the pitching and they just focus on like Mike Magnanti.

and Ricardo Rincon. But that's going to be the Evanston Euler story in like 10 years. It's going to be like Adam Larson skating around and like he blocked one puck to save one game in front of the net. It's like that's why they went on that run. It's like how do you think the oilers got better this year, huh? You think it is more moxie or maybe deleting Taylor Hall up in that locker room?

I'm like, I'm going to probably guess that has something to do with David playing hockey. The Taylor Hall locker room thing too. Like I never knew that was a thing until they started winning this year. It was the Taylor Hall locker room cancer problem. That's why they were But it's like that in every sport, right? As soon as the guys out of the door there's all of a sudden this like

revisionist smear campaign about why it went wrong It's like, yeah. Do you think stats are marketable to hockey fans? Like stats are clearly marketable to baseball fans because you have a lot of people with a lot of time in their hands that love breaking down numbers and talking about things.

Also, I think baseball's always been a very stats-obsessed sport. Also, I think fantasy baseball lends itself to really diving deep into the stats. Do you think stats are a marketable thing in hockey. I hope so. Otherwise, I should be looking for other job opportunities. Can you make stats fun? I feel like that's the problem with stats sometimes. People don't have fun with them. They get real mad if you're ever. Yeah. I think stuff we can do better for sure is sort of providing

context and like relevant examples in terms of like comparing players. Like I think that's something a casual fan can get behind when like you tell them like, well, this is how these two players compare for this reason. It's like it's a pretty simple way. way to go. Another thing is, I think we just got to scrap stuff like Corsi and P.O. and Fenwick and not necessarily the stuff. Those are the ones. Those are the ones I understand. But no, the names because I think you instantly see people's eyes just glaze over as soon as you say that, but they're the same people that have been listening to player interviews saying we need to get pucks on net for 40 years. It's like

those are the two same things. So what can we call them? Like, we can call them like... I think just call them shot attempts or just shots. Oh, shit. So you agree with the NHL. Oh. Yeah. But I think I think, I think, I think we should call choracy, like shot attempts, should just be called shots. Not chat. Not shats. Not shats. Like, yeah, like, if we have fun, like, shats on, and we can have, like, specific ones that are blocks.

So we can say shats on chest. Right. Ones that get all the way through, shats down the drain. Like, and we can, I'm just saying, like, you want to keep the fresh for the kids. For a very niche audience. Yes. For those, that Cleveland expansion team. He led the team in shats.

Right on the ice. SACs. Go back to that. Like, what did you, how did you, to go back to the garage band example, I mean, when the NHL adopted, adopted analytics, it had to seem like maybe, maybe the party was over, huh? Yeah. Well, I think that, uh, on the topic of snake oil and, uh, and false profits, I think everything SAP does is probably a example. Let's talk about that. Because one of the biggest problems that the Atlantic, uh, analytics community had with SAP was the predictive model they claimed.

85% of playoffs series. 85% yeah, they had a thing where it was 85% of playoffs series. They said they could predict. Yeah. And that was, you know, no matter what they were going to do as far as data collection or how they were building these things within NHL.com and the new analytics pages and renaming the stats, whatever, that was the thing that made people go, oh, fuck this. Right.

That's going 13 out of 15 every year, right? Right. But that's the problem. It's like human nature. Like fans or consumers of the product want, like, certainty. Like, they want to be told something. as fact, as set in stone, and sports are anything but that. Like, we're working with probabilities here where it's like you can increase your odds from

50 to 52%. It's like, for someone working with a team, that's huge. But for a fan, they might not, that might not capture the attention. So you have to sometimes, like, kind of like a little bit of a Napoleon complex where all of a sudden you start like overcompensating and trying to like convince them like, oh, trust me, this is actually foolproof no matter what. and you start making promises as you actually can't keep

and then by that point the checks have already cashed you don't care anymore you've already got the SAP money you're good man it's just like who cares I also think too the problem is

fans take their cues from like media people and like when Steve Simmons people like that are every other day making some sort of joke about shit like yeah like it's it's designed to annoy you guys

I just realized like we're using Dimitri to speak for all of the stats community yes yeah we step But we established at the beginning of the interview that, like, they're all deaf. They're all warring tribes. But, like, it reminds me, what, Katie Nolan was our first guest, and, like, half of our questions were, as a woman. Right.

And now we're doing this. I mean, I can't believe you didn't go with the example of the puck bunny. It's like, as a puck bunny. As a puck bunny. Yeah. As a stats guy, I forget what the point was. But the point was is that if more people were less dickish about it, I feel like more common fans would probably be into it.

But at the same time, I understand where it comes from. from like years of being sort of held down and people telling you that you're... But like if you're Steve Simmons, you can do whatever you want. You can write whatever you want. You're not going to lose your job. Like there's no benefit to being like the stats dick. It kind of is though. There is.

People click on his stuff because of what he says, right? I think he'd be exposed by not having any sort of actual relevant opinions if he had tried to like not stir stuff up. That's why I call him Hot Stowe Simmons. I think the prickishness of, of analytics guys, though, is one of the appealing parts of it. Like I know that we're saying that, They have to be more nuanced and try to make it more accessible to people. But, like, I read Delo because Delo was a prick to people that I wanted to see taken down a notch.

Right. And there's something beautiful about that. Like, I don't ever want the edge to be taken off of analytics in the sense that, like, they're the check and balance on people that are talking nonsense. There's no more terrifying thing in life than when you tweet something. And then five minutes later, Tyler retweeted it. And you had to wait that minute to see if he was going to say it was good or bad. You're like, you're like, hmm. I was just like, oh, shit.

It's like, oh, God, what did I say about Alex Seven now? Either I just reinvented the wheel or I'm going to be taken to the fucking woodshed. Like one time in a power rankings, I threw in a line that just said, like, Taylor Hall is minus 42 in his last 38 games. Just a complete throwaway line. And he savage that for like seven tweets in a row. And I'm like, buddy, it's a power rankings. You know what the best, I mean, like, it's, sometimes it's tough being, like, publicly just scoring like that. But it was even better when he was still working for the Oilers because I'd get, like, 4 a.m. emails from him.

that were just like, I'm assuming booze filled, just tirade, but stuff that you could never actually go with publicly. So he's just like, I can't believe you just said this on this radio hit. I'm like, you were listening? What? Like, nothing escapes that guy. All right. Real briefly, real briefly.

What's your favorite thing about hockey in a general sense? I mean, I know there's an intellectual approach to hockey, but is there a side? Do you have a side of your brain that is, is the candy, and sweets and unicorns and rainbow side. Like, can you read a hockey story that's flowery? Can you appreciate a narrative and not have to... Do you like Greg's work? Yes or no?

That's bullshit. I dabble in analytics. I try to be as smart as I can. I'm not very good at math. But, like, is there a part of you that needs that sort of, like, you know... Crosby Nutshot. Yeah, I was that. Was that a Greg?

That allows you to pause moonlight and enjoy a Transformers moving out again. Absolutely. And honestly, like, the reason why I got into this is because I think the sport of hockey and by nature is incredibly captivating and fascinating and exciting. And that's why I get mad at everything the NHL does because they seem to just be going out of their way to not just let it spread its wings and flourish. Like, hockey is an amazing sport, but the NHL is a league is absolutely atrocious at everything they do in terms of marketing and letting their players succeed and having any sort of modicum of fun. And so that's where I'm at. Like, I love hockey. I hate the NHL.

I think that's where a lot of people are, to be honest with you. By the way, the way you started, I thought we were going to get like a good, like, Herb Brooks, two-minute speech about the greatest of hockey and it ended with, and that's why I hate the NHL. Hey, Dimitri, where can people find your stuff? Just follow me at Dim Filipovich on Twitter. I'm on, I'm on Sportsnet. I do podcast articles there. Sometimes I'm on this little niche podcast, Merrick versus Wishingski, I've been on a few times there.

I'm not a familiar one. You never heard of it. Puck soup? Yeah, that's a good one. Oh, that's the logo with the toilet, right? Yes, right. And real briefly, because we mentioned it, but never actually talked about it, what's it like getting paid to appear on an analytics panel?

Oh, you get paid for that? Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't get paid personally. Oh, yeah. But people paid to come and watch. Oh, you mean people get paid to? Oh, I'm sorry. Other people benefited from my greatness is what I'm kind of.

What's it like had people pay to listen to you at an analytics conference? It was an interesting experience. Yeah? I mean, I personally wouldn't have paid to watch myself talk about. So groupies then? Yeah, it turns out hockey analytics, it doesn't lend itself to a lot of female fans, unfortunately. No, no, you sure? Yeah.

A lot of dudes buy me drinks at bars and stuff, and they're like, oh, I've seen you on TV, but unfortunately with the ladies, it's not. No one asking about your possession right after you? Mm-hmm. Your high danger shots, as it were. How about your D-D-R-R-T? Wow, we're getting into some really interesting territory now. You want to carry it in tonight later? I really hope no one listens to this much.

Hucks in deep. All right, everybody. Thanks, Dimitri. Thanks to Dimitri Filipovich for stopping by. Very excited to have him here in the city, albeit briefly, and learn a thing or two about math. Yeah, we talked tacos. We talked to pizza. I don't remember if we talked about that darn.

We didn't talk about it on the evening. We tried to give them some food tips. The problem with coming to New York and being like, where is the best pizza is the answer is everywhere but also nowhere. Yeah. Is that the League of Shadows that are everywhere in nowhere? Yeah. But it's like even the like replacement level pizza in New York is still better than anything you're going to get elsewhere. In fact, when I was in London, we passed by a place called New York Flip.

New York Flip. It's got a New York pizza that you could eat and you flip. You've foote, not flip, fold. New York fold. Right. You take the pizza and you fold it. You turn it in. You turn it in and fold it.

After you're done washing your Premier League footy, you'll get a slice. One brief thing about London, which I loved, even though I had the stomach flu the last like two days. Which, by the way, when you have the stomach flu and you try to soldier on because your wife's booked you a steak dinner, maybe it's sometimes better not to order the Bernays. So, I. There's a game show network in London, and I found one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. So one of the things they love in the UK, and a lot of other places in Europe is watching darts.

Oh, I know. Yeah. Love watching darts. I found a show in anybody who's from the UK or is familiar with it will probably be nodding their head right now. It's called Bullseye. Okay? Wait, is it just like, is it like poker on ESPN here?

Is it like a TV show about it? It's a game show. Oh, it's a game show. Where you are working in a team of two, one person is answering questions and then the other person is literally playing darts to try to like win stuff

during the show so it's like you answer a tribute question like like which character on horses round here used to say bugger off this jolly good shit show blah blah and then John boy and then that's correct and then like someone throws a dart

to try to win a prize oh okay oh I was picturing them throwing darts yeah it was like a night you from your head It's an hour-long show from like the 1970s and 80s. They used to show it on Sunday after Sunday afternoons, but the best part about it is that at the end, all of the stuff you've won, which by the way is shit. It's like a foosball table and then like an exercise bike and then like 20 pounds or some shit, like 200 pounds or some shit. You can then give all that up to then actually play a proper game of darts where you have to beat like whatever the house score is.

And then you win like the grand prize, which I think the episode I watched was like a trip to bear. Badoes. And it was amazing. Does anybody ever not go for the time? They all go for it. It's great. And then some of them get it and some of them don't. Wait, so is the game we're going to play now or I have to throw dark this stuff? No. The game that we're going to play, this game show is something I'm really excited about. If anyone's a dedicated Puck Soup listener, if you're listening to this fucking nonsense, you probably are. I'm ready.

You know that most of our games involve sort of a multiple choice. And that's why on today's episode of Puck Soup, we are playing a game, in honor of Dave Lozo, a failed Anglophile, who can't pronounce things and tries to pretend he knows a lot of shit about London and the UK, but really doesn't. We are playing a game called London Tube Stop, UK Crime Series, or sexual slang. London Tube Stop. Is it a crime series? UK Crime Series. Or sexual slang.

Or sexual slang. Each of these things I'm about to read is either a stop on the London Underground. I can just picture you just like, Ruby, can we just hang on one second here? I just want to write down the name of this tube stop. A UK crime series, a television series that appeared at some point on television of the UK, not necessarily BBC, but in the UK. I'll come back to bed in a second. I'm writing down the names of shows that I'm looking up on IMDV. I'll be there in a minute.

Or sexual slang, courtesy of our friends at Urban Dictionary. Which means that it's one person who decided to make a joke. Right. It's always. No one says this in England. All right. here we go. All right.

London Tube Stop, UK crime series or sexual slang. First up, we have Budgie. All right. There's no way that's a crime series. I say Tube Stop. Budgie is a crime series. No, it's not. Broadcast on the ITV network between 1971 and 1972.

Each episode was a complete story, usually depicting Budgie's involvement in some hairbrain scheme to make money, usually somewhere on the wrong side of legality. So that's one wrong. I don't believe you. I'm Googling this. B-U-D-G-Y? B-D-G-Y. G-I-E, but-G-G-E, like what they would call a bird in like Australia or something.

Oh, yeah, that is, that's what comes up. All right, number two, munting. Tube Stop, UK crime series or sexual slang? Sexual slang. Correct. To munt is to find and dig up a semi-decomposed corpse. One person then goes down on said corpse whilst the other jumps on the dead person's stomach, causing the juices to be forced from all orifices.

These are then drank by the person orally connected to the corpse. Munting. That's a real thing. People do that all the time. Sure. One for two. Porridge. Professor Munting.

P-O-R-R-I-D-G-E. Porridge. I don't want that to be sexual slang, so I'm not going to guess that it's sexual slang. I'm going to say two-stop. Porridge is a crime series. It stars Ronnie Baker and Richard Beckinsale as two inmates at the fictional H-N-P-Slaid in Cumberland. Doing porridge is British slang. for serving a prison sentence,

porridge once being the traditional breakfast in UK prisons. Okay. One for three. That makes sense. Mud Shoot. I'm just going to say

tube stock because it hasn't been an answer yet. Correct. Mud shoot is a tube stop. I forget what line it is. I don't know if it's on Piccadilly or Bakerloo. It's just a big dirt road.

Is that what you're telling me? All right. Number five, barking. This isn't the SATs. You don't have to take it this seriously. I do. I got about at least 500 here. Tube stop.

That's correct. Barking is the last line on the two-stop. And the only reason I know this is because when we were taking the train from Heathrow to London, Ruby saw a dog on the floor of the subway, and she turned to me and said, do you think he's going to barking? Oh, God. Which is a great joke. Good one, Ruby.

Parkins Patch. P.A.R.K. I. I.an apostrophe, yes. Crime series. Correct. Parkins Patch features PC Moss Parkin. played the lead role of a police constable in the North York Moors. So what am I at this point?

You have four of six. Doing quite well. Doing quite well. It's good. Right? Right is rain. Cockfosters. Tube stop.

That's correct. Cockfosters is the last line on a tube stop. So when you're waiting for the train, you get to hear, you know, Piccadilly line train to Cockfosters. What percentage of stops on the tube are actually fucking dirty-ass names? I couldn't live there.

I'll tell you about mud chute. I, for a moment, thought that mud shoot was a joke being played on tourists. Like, it doesn't actually exist. It's just like, you know, it would be a right go to, like, must shoot. And then people would be like, where's your mud shoot? And then it would be like, it's on the tube. Monroe Transfer. Crime series.

Six. Come on! Monroe transfers when one person sticks a tube in their ass and then sticks it in someone else's ass and shits in their ass according to Irvin Dictionary. But do you like how I tied tube into the answer? I get it. Yeah. So four for seven. Wait, is that right?

Five for eight. Five for eight. Yeah. So the poor Monroe person, where that is, I had that named after them. Chalk Farm. Is it chalk like, like chocolate or chocolate? Chalk Lake like you'd write on a blackboard. Okay. Chalk farm.

Chalk farm. All right. That's that, yeah. Because if that's a sex thing, that's going to involve, like, putting chalk in animals' butts or something. That can't be what it is. Or it could be like a dried substance if you think about it. Yeah. Crime drama.

Tube stop. It's interesting. You knew that it wasn't a sex thing because I was advocating for you to take it to answer as a sex thing. But you didn't. So, yeah, you got it wrong. That's my point. Everything in England sounds like a sex thing. thing.

Chalk farm. Finally, Ball Coosy. B-A-L-C-U-Z-I. So like a Coozy, put your balls in? Ball-Cozy. Crime drama.

That's correct. Detective John Ball-Cozy. No, it's not a... Oh, man. Ball-Cozy, get in here. Definitely sex slang. You place your nuts in a bowl of warm, warm water, and then have a girl, put a straw into the bowl

and blow bubble. under your balls. Rubber Ducky is optional, of course, according to urban dictionary.com. Balcozy is a sex act. 500, sir. 5. 600.

What? Oh, no, right. The last one. Yeah, five out of ten. So how do you feel about your knowledge of sex slang, London Tube Stops, and or UK crime series? Probably not as good as you did before we started doing this exercise.

But like, like, how long do you do the ball coozy thing before you move on to other stuff? How long do you do it before it tickles? Right. Like, before it outright. tickles. Because like, I mean, at some point you have to be like, all right, that's, like, because, I mean, it's the whole process. You got to get water. You got to go out and buy straws. Nobody just has straws in their house.

You know, you know? I always like to have straws in the house. I always like to have Bendy straws in the house. You never know when you might, you know, need one. Well, you have a kid. So you should probably drink stuff out of straw. It's funny. Like, I'm so irresponsible as a parent that I just, I literally

have my kid drink out of coffee mugs. Huh. Because like, I know she has a handle. So I know she, She'll be able to hold it. But then, like, if she drops it, it's a giant mess, right? Then you got to go buy a new coffee mug. It's pretty dumb. But, like, it's what I do.

Balcozy. See if it was spelled C-O-O-O-Z-I. I would have instantly said sex thing. The Balcozy. It was too obvious to be a sex thing. As we do this show, the playoff races are solidifying. Kind of boring down the stretch. I mean, there's some...

Listen, there's a couple of different ways to look at it. It's boring in the sense that the bubbles are kind of... Kind of popping left and right as we speak. It's just the second wild card in the east. Yeah, and then also, yeah, and the kings have kind of fallen off. But, I mean, obviously, it's a super exciting race for not only top of the league, but top of the east, which is going to make, you know, a lot of, I mean, you know, it could be a situation where you either have to play Pittsburgh or Washington of the first round or not,

if you're Columbus. This Columbus Renaissance, eight and two in their last ten games, I think I didn't see coming. How to admit? Well, because they're not good, so you never would expect a team that's not that good. They are obviously a good team. Are they? Aren't they?

They're okay. Hold on, Blue Jackets, schedule. Let me just, because if I'm correct. If my calculations are correct, Marty. And I usually am. Not really usually, but sometimes I am. Let me just get through all those Ws in the middle of the season, all those Ls afterwards. Right, so they've beaten their last four wins are against teams that aren't in the playoffs.

The last five, last seven. The only playoff team they've been in March is Minnesota. You're trying to tell me the devils aren't. They beat the devils three times. Devils three times in Buffalo once. They actually lost. Oh, yeah, they blew the game against Buffalo. Philly, Florida, and the Islanders.

They've beaten one playoff team in March. They're the most smoke and mirrors team of all time. Maybe not of all time. Calgary, it was a real smoke. So you still expect them they're going to be in the two-three series. Do you think they could beat Pittsburgh in the first round if Pittsburgh is still diminished? If Pittsburgh doesn't have Laetang, all bets are off.

Right. If they have Latang and... The French for the Tang. The French for the Tang. Yeah. That's what the French astronauts would eat when they would go in the space or drink. But yeah, as long as they have Latang, I think they'll be fine. Toronto, as we do this show, 81 points.

The Islander 78 to Tampa Bay is 77. Tampa, the Lightning Assents, is it still going on? Or do you believe that maybe their window is closing? The problem is that they only have... They have a couple games against... Boston left, but that's starting to look like that ship's going to sailor five points back. They do have a game in hand. So, I mean, in theory, they're still in business.

But, yeah, that one game left against Toronto is it trying to catch the team they're playing. And they don't have any against the Islanders. Toronto is just so shitty defensively. I feel like they're so susceptible to, like, losing seven of their last 10. Like, they just give up so many shots and so many grade A chances. But I think Tampa, they don't have enough players. Like, they just have too many guys out. but I think it's between Toronto and Tampa.

I don't think the islanders are going to do it. Yeah, their third defenseman right now is like Roman Hammerlick, right? It's not, yeah. Yeah, well, Jason Garrison is the modern-day Roman-Han. Which of those three teams do you want in? Because I go back and forth as to whether I want Toronto in, knowing that they're just going to get shellacked. Oh, I want Toronto in.

I want Toronto. The Toronto Caps will be a fun-ass first-round series. But Tampa Caps would be, too, like a returning stamp coat or whatever. And like, okay, personal preference, I'd like Tampa to go on a run. I love going to Tampa. I love covering games in Tampa. Tampa is super fun. Ah, the Tiki bar.

The Tiki bar, exactly. So, like, there's something to be said for being completely selfish about rooting for teams. At this point, by the way, notice who your favorite hockey writers are actively rooting for in the playoffs because it's usually the teams that they want to spend some time, i.e., everybody becomes a giant cheerleader for Chicago. Right. Chicago, again, if the Stanley Cup finalist, Chicago, Montreal every year, none of us would complain about it. Right, exactly. Although I would imagine Nashville now as part of that equation too.

I think a lot of people who went to Nashville, maybe for the All-Star game or whatever, never really spent a lot of time there all like, yeah, I'd love to go back to Nashville. Just no cross-country flights. And in general, I don't want to have to cross the border four times. Yeah. But everybody's, everybody giving Winnipeg terrible advice on their goaltending all year. Don't make a trade. I mean, Pavlik's right there in your HL team.

Just maybe give him another chance. Maybe he's better now. Tampa. Do we ever tell the story about Gentilly in Tampa when he was Sean Gentile of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette when we were at post game and John Cooper was at the bar? No, go ahead. And he was there with like his family, like his mom and dad were there. I do remember that, yeah. And he went to the jukebox and played Chelsea Dagger like six times in a row.

Yes, he did. It was great. And we just sat there and like watched their reactions to it. It was fantastic. And like, to be fair, we were 12 years all the time. So we can't really blame us for being immature. But yeah, that's, that's the fun stuff about going out after games is. is messing with parents of coaches or in town to root for their child.

Exactly. By the way, the single greatest jukebox thing for those who don't know that happens on the road is when you're on the road with Pierre LeBron. He does one thing all the time,

which is he somehow finds on the jukebox we are the world and plays it and sings it. We are the world, Cam. We are the children, Cam. And then one time, we were covering the cup final in

LA, we went to a bar, and I don't even know how the fuck he did this. This is some prestige shit as far as, like, the magic he pulled. He found the hands across America theme on a jukebox. Oh, was that at the beach bar? That was in the beach bar? Yeah. Because I don't remember that, I don't

remember that jukebox being the kind that you can just go in there and, like, find old stuff. I thought it was like a flip through it, what kind of one? Yeah, and he said, like, how, yeah, and what CD would the Hands Across America theme be on? Now, that's what I call charity songs. So the jock Jock donations

Oh, it's a theme song from Red Noseday So, okay, if I had Dollars to Donuts Why do we keep on saying that? What the fuck is that even mean? What does that even mean dollars of donuts? Did you hear that in England a lot? No, I heard a lot in England, though. From Bangers to Mash

I would think I'd like to see Lichester City get back in. Again, I come back to the British game shows. It's the greatest thing ever because like Bar Cousy. You could you could watch the chase in in the UK and there are like questions about geography and whatever

and you're like yeah I could totally be on this show and then you get to the one that's like In the first season of the crown versus a squirrel, who played Delilah's mother? What was the name of the third guest on the seventh episode of Forty Towers? Yeah and I

said to myself this is a horseshit question but then I think okay but in the US it would be like you know what what chicken chain did crows kramer obsessed with on signfield exactly what is penny rogers roasted all right dollars to donuts washington pittsburgh columbus the current standings is how it'll finish what say you yeah i think so okay yeah yeah yeah montreal ottawa boston which means we'll get montreal and the rangers in the first round yeah who wins that series Not asking for an official pick here.

I know we've yet to do that. I think Montreal would win that series. I don't think the Rangers defense is good enough. But I think whoever wins that series goes to the conference finals. I'll say that. You think whoever wins Montreal? Oh, just because of the Atlantic Pass?

Because of the second. The fucking set of in the East is so stupid this year. We're the sixth best team and the seventh best team are going to play each other in the first round. You might be right. And then you think Toronto gets in, or you want Toronto win,

or you think they get in? That's two separate questions. And that's dollars and donuts right there Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna Do you ever put like Boston cream Inside of a dollar bill? Wait

Is that Mike Babcock or Buffalo bill? Oh wait no Mike Babcock is Do you ever put Boston cream Instead of a dollar bill? And this is Do you ever put dollar Boston cream inside of a dollar bill?

That's also fucking Edgar The bug from Men of Love Give me donuts in water. All right, Toronto's got Columbus right now. Because don't have sugar, I just realized. Jersey, Buffalo, Florida, Detroit, Buffalo.

Toronto's probably got to get to how many. I say 9 and 7, Mikey. Dog, 10 games left. Gotta win 5. Give me the least. 92 points. I'm going to say the Islanders get in just because it's going to ruin everybody's fun.

And they're really good at that. They're really good at... Like, they've got a very tough road, but I feel like they'll get in just because it would be the least thing, the least thing we want to see happen and to see them against the fucking capitals. You know, just who gives a shit?

I don't want to see... Somebody brought that up today, whether it was Kekeleinen or there was some players, somebody asked about the format. They were like, I don't want to see the same teams every year in the first two rounds. And this way, if, like, Toronto gets in and plays the caps.

That's a whole fresh new series that I haven't seen in, like, ever. That's just it. Toronto and the caps, though, is such the argument for the old. format, isn't it? Like, that's the kind of weird matchup you'd see in the 1-V-8

that you don't see anymore. So now you're saying, so now the opinion is that we're ODing on rivalry matchups? It's too, it's, I mean, there's that. There's the fault in the fact that one of the three best teams in the NHL is going to get knocked out in the first round.

There's nothing good about this format. And it was just straight, one, four, two, three, no crossovers. Even then, it's stupid. I was, I honestly God, love the idea of realignment. at first. And now that I've seen it for like four years, that's stupid. Yeah, thanks, Detroit.

Chicago's going to win the West. Fucking Kenny. Minnesota's going to finish second. St. Louis and Nashville jockeying for third. And if you are in that position, you probably want to finish third and get Bruce Boudreau in a seven-game series versus playing the Blackhawks in the first round, no? Yeah, I guess. Keep in mind that Jonathan Taves isn't on Minnesota, and he is, after all, one of the greatest players of all time. Yeah, I'd rather play Minnesota.

I feel like Minnesota's finally... Like, Minnesota's having that thing that I thought Columbus would have happened to it. Where are you? They would just finally... They're getting little wibbley. And like, I would rather, yeah, Nashville. If Nashville plays Minnesota, they'll be Nashville.

I think St. Louis plays Minnesota, they'll be Minnesota. San Jose, Edmonton, Anaheim, and Edmonton kind of jockeying for home ice. Calgary and that mix, too, they might jump up. I mean, obviously, Edmonton, Calgary is a matchup you want in the first round. That'd be a really fun series. So Calgary would play So Calgary's going to get You get San Jose, Anaheim, and Calgary, Edmonton

That's what you want, right? Right off the hop? I kind of want to see Edmonton beat Anaheim. I want to see like a new young fast team come in and just You want a young fast team to beat Randy Carlis. Yeah, I want all that. Like I don't want to see San Jose play. Again, it's about new matchups.

I don't want to see Kevin BX a sucking wind as Connor McDavid wheels him in the offensive zone. Oh, if that series happens, Kevin B.XA will probably intentionally hurt. You're probably right. Slash him in the dick or something. Fucking Jaxa. And then everybody's like,

Edmuchy's just right here. Like, what are you talking about? Lucci just literally probably served time in prison overseas and we don't know about it. If anyone's going to prevent that, it's going to be me on Luch. There's your look at the playhouse. And the time we have remaining on the podcast, it's time for our favorite segment,

which is, of course, your listener mail. I mean, it's not Lozo's favorite segment. He always bitches about how poor the questions are every week, to be honest with you. What are the five best ever left-handed shooting players to actually guest star on a TV show? I don't know. I don't know. Take all the Marvel movies and recast every role with an player in the Eastern Conference whose name starts with an M. If we had to do those answers, we'd never start recording.

We'd be like out in the bullpen, like, all right. Um, Thor. It has to be an Eastern conference guy? Ah. Yeah, I'm ready. Get past that. All right, Mitch Marner for Ant, man. Oh, that's what it is.

Our listeners are all stones. Now I get it. Now it's cool. All right. F. Mary Kill. Blue Jackets, fans, Penguins, fans, and Sabres fans. These are, this is from Ignore the Corsi. Oh, who must love this episode. Holy shit.

This is obviously a question that deals with my problems online and not necessarily yours, but if I had to say it, I would, I would marry, oh, I'd marry Sabres fans because it can only get better. I would kill, I would kill Blue Jacket's Sands because I have a feeling they're just angry. They're just angry. They're never not going to be angry. It would end in, it would end in somebody getting killed. And I would, and I would, I would bang Penguins fans because maybe I catch them on one of those good days.

Yeah, they have good times and bad times. Peaks and valleys. Yeah, I'm going to marry Penguins fans because that's going to be good for years. Bang Sabers fans, because of the same sort of thing, it would be a good hate bang because there's like a lot of, you know, a lot of anger there. Yeah, and then, yeah, Blue Jackets fans, throw them.

Plus, you know, banging Sabers fans. I mean, anything you do is going to be above expectation, right? If you have, as long as you don't go wide right. Well, no, like, I'll show up and I'll show up. See, the thing is, like, even if I show up and I'm not what they want, They'll pretend I am and say that that's what they want it all along. No, no, no, no. Oh, Iko McDavid.

You see Leinen wants us to know that people in certain regions of Finland... Don't repeat this on the air. People are going to throw up on those. Put mayonnaise on pizza, not just dipping, but as a topping. And he wants to know if this is blasphemy. So, like, mayonnaise in place of sauce? Doesn't matter. He said topping.

And I think that... Tock. You see, we need to have a little bit more definition. in here. Like, is it, is it a replacement sauce like buffalo sauces on a buffalo chicken pizza? Or is it dollops of mayonnaise like you would get mozzarella cheese on a pizza? Like a white slice where you get the, yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm going to throw up either way if we keep talking about this.

Yeah, well, just to make sure that you do. Chubbs wants to know. I was at a place they had advertised peanut butter on their hamburgers. I refuse to try it. Your take? You know, there's a part of me, you know where I think peanut butter would be good? And I don't know if this makes any sense to you. but just close your eyes and picture it for a second.

Peanut butter on a turkey burger. I feel like that would be good. Not on beef, but on a turkey burger. I'm more into the beef idea than the turkey burger idea. Turkey burgers are hit or miss, man. They're either home runs or the grossest thing you're ever going to eat. And I feel like peanut butter doesn't go with that flavor, but I think it might go with like a beef, hearty, like Angus burger maybe?

Beef noodle hardy. It's Yoda and the, what's that fucking hand? the Mako hands from the commercial? No, who's the little the little hand that makes the pasta? Hamburger helper? Yeah, hamburger helper. Thank you. Jesus. The hand that makes the pasta.

Rebecca D. Mourne in the hand that makes the pasta. Choking Matt McCoy to death. I would... Nice job. I would prefer peanut butter on turkey burger then because if it's a shitty turkey burger, then the peanut butter covers that up, much like when I give me... my dog pills, I put peanut butter on them.

No cheese, though. I don't think you can have beef, peanut butter, and cheese. I barely understand fish and cheese together, yet I understand a filet of fish. That's the weird part. I don't think I've ever combined fish and cheese. You ever had a flay of fish with cheese on it? The idea of a fish sandwich from a fast food place makes me fomitous. Okay, but this is, this will come back. Somebody asked us about this, and I'm going to look at it real quick.

Oh, yeah. Was it a rash or? No, no, no. Anna Tower wants to know. feelings on subway overly bready trash or semi-competent healthier fast food food overly I would go with semi-competent healthier fast food but does what do you say of that by the way I haven't had subway in so long you neither have I there used to be a subway and they closed it and they were going to open up a new sandwich place that was like a better

version of subway and I forget the quiz nose of it is no or jersey mics oh jersey mics mics is good I actually like the best the best subs to me are and and those who are blessed with them will understand Wegmans has the best subs they're great but I will say this about Subway to go back to our previous question about, well, that we turn into a question about fish and cheese, because tangents. They ask you whether you want cheese on a tuna sub at Subway. And I always found that to be kind of off-putting. Like, much like my campaign against tomatoes on sandwiches, like you should have to ask to get it on a sandwich. It shouldn't just be placed there.

Yeah. Cheese should be something you have to initiate for a tuna sandwich. It shouldn't be a thing where they're like, do you want cheese on it? Like it's so common that they just want to get it out of the way and ask you. I don't know. Are you a fucking maniac? Like, well, who wants cheese on a tuna sandwich? Who's getting a, why would you get a tuna sandwich?

But they ask you all the time. Try it. I'm going to go to answer the question. I'm going to go bready, whatever. Because I feel like if you're getting a sub, even if it's like a low fat turkey, whatever, like you're still eating a shit ton of bread. And as I learned from Scott Pilgrim, bread makes you fat. Bread makes you fat?

Oh, God, that's such a great movie. All right. A couple more real quick. What is the correct direction to face in the shower towards the shower header away? Lots writing on this, says Jordan Little. I'm scared. Why is he asking us this? Because he wants to know where to plunge the knife.

Do you face the door to your bathroom when you're in the shower? When you shower, do you like to leave the front door unlocked or locked? Oh, I see what he's saying. Like, when you're in the shower and you're not washing a particular part of your body, how do you just stand while the water's hitting you, I guess? Because, like, you know, you turn around to hit certain parts. I face the shower head, so the water drips down my face, so I feel like Triple H. Wait, is that like, I don't know.

I don't know the reference, because I'm... Because then he'll whip his hair back, like, when it's all wet. Oh, I was thinking more like the Colorado Avalanche in that video where they just, like, look up and give meaningful looks. Oh, you mean the Imagine Dragons video? Right, where it looks like Gabe Lanniscag just shot his load in the sink. He did. That's where he put it. where you put it um i i don't know i've never i've never really thought about it what do you i mean

thinking about your last shower a few days ago what do you what do you think you did when i showered before st patrick's day i don't know i just i kind of i turn around while i'm in there i don't really have it's not like sleeping where like i have a side like i just i don't know when i'm at the gym i faced the wall unless i'm wearing my swim trunks I think it might take bads Nobody likes it Aaron wants to know Starburst jelly beans

Yummy in my tummy or only for a dummy Um Yummy yummy yummy I'm gonna say yummy in my tummy Only for a dummy in comparison with jelly belly though Yeah any jelly beans are good Yeah Finally my kid wants

Like gets those goddamn jellybellies that like taste like skunk It's like a game they play Like you spin a wheel And you either get like You taste the color And it's either like This is either like amazing licorice or a skunk.

It's like they sell those. So it literally tastes like a skunk. Yeah, they have one that tastes like, it's either like, this either tastes like vanilla caramel or diaper or whatever. Like that's serious. And she loves it. And then she. But they just spit it out.

There's got to be a mess all over the place that thing. It is. It's a total mess. It's a gross game. And the way she plays it, she's got it rigged real nice, which she doesn't actually play it. She'll spin and get a color and be like,

you try it. finally the one question we were really excited about lethal weapon series were the oceans movies according to kid michael okay here's my take is i think as a whole all four i even like the last one the lethal weapon movies are better but i'd rather watch the oceans movies that's how i feel because like if you set like you could set the most beautiful

well shot well acted well written movie and then do it three more times, I would rather watch the mediocre one in Vegas that involves a heist every single time. Not that that's a mediocre movie, but just I'm just saying that's my standard. So I'd rather have three good Vegas movies as opposed to four maybe a little bit better cop movies.

Height of their powers. Best movie in the series, Oceans is better than Leitha Weapon 2. Yes. Leth The Weapon 2 is great. I don't know. Oceans 11 is better. as a flick, I think.

I feel like the first two lethal weapons are better than anything in the ocean. I think the problem I have with the lethal weapon series is that, I mean, the Ocean's movies have an interesting trajectory in the sense that, you know, the quality is sort of decreasing, I would say. Like, three is not, three is the, one with Renee Russo, that's not good with the cop killer bullets. That's good. I mean, it's good. And then four is the not good one with the Jet Lee.

That was, I kind of like, I like that one better than three. Three. Four had some high spots. But the weird thing about the Leto Up movies is the first one is a completely different tone than like the fourth one. Yeah. The fourth one is basically like a family buddy cop movie and the first one's like crazy psycho cop. Right. Martin Riggs may eat a bullet at some point in this movie. Will he kill himself or will he do that shoulder trick to get it in a straight jacket? So it's a weird comparison because the first one's almost like in a completely different series than the other three. And like, again, Ocean's 12 really brings down the value of the, of the trilogy. Because Ocean's 12, from what I understand, they wrote it and shot it as like a... On a plane on a cocktail, cocktail napkin.

No, no, no, no. The thing I read was the whole theme of the movie is how hard it is to do a sequel. And so they're doing a second heist. And so the whole theme of the movie is about how hard it is to do a sequel if you're doing a great movie like Ocean's 11. Meanwhile, with the weapon was like, we're just going to do a second good fucking awesome movie. We're not going to try to be clever about it. And bring post-goodfellas Joe Pesci on it. Yes.

Yeah. Which is genius. Right. They weren't like, oh, this is going to be so hard. They just did a fucking good movie. By the way, Jurassic World is also a movie about how hard it is to make a sequel. And if you watch it through that prism, it's a really good movie. I'm going to go to lethal weapon movies.

I think, I think top to bottom better movies. Better? Or you'd rather watch? And I also, I would rather watch. I really love those characters, man. Like, I watched a lethal weapon movie. It might have been three a couple of months ago. Is it weirder to watch it now that you?

You know, Mel Gibson's a gigantic anti-Semitic racist, though. No more than it is to watch Carl Reiner. Oh, wait. Just jokes. Just jokes. Carl Leiter is not a raging. He's on Coden. I know.

He's the best. That was a joke. No, I, listen, I think the Ocean's movies are fantastic. You and I quote them a lot. We love those movies. Would I rather, I would rather not watch, there's like 10 movies I'd rather watch than Oceans 11. Ocean's 13 is something I've,

put on in the background ocean's 12 I'll watch the guy Frank dancing through the lasers yeah and then Julia Robert shows up and I'm just like yeah yeah and then you have to you all then you have to suffer you have to suffer the whole fucking ending with Catherine Zeta Jones

oh my god there's gonna be a fire alarm wow they were testing for like an hour and 20 minutes and we didn't even hear one wow that's crazy do you think we died and now we're in our an hour are we the leftovers That's a good question. The whole Catherine's

that a Jones and her father thing at the end was stupid. We have to step it through that notion's 12. Oh, yeah. I would shut that off before that part.

But to do three heist movies in Vegas, I think you can't do 13 without 12. Like you couldn't do back-to-back Vegas heist movies. Yeah, you have to have

to have the failure of 12 to do 13. Right, right. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are like, I'll come back and do it again, sure. Yeah.

Also, the other weird thing, too. Oh, by the way, we're ranting here. But did you know, do you know what Tofer Grace's real name is. No. Christopher.

He calls himself Tofer because his name is Christopher. So you use the last part of, like if I changed my name to Right. Gorey. Gorey.

And I was Vid. I don't know how. Vido sounds like a fucking member of the sex pistols. Girl, I just, I just won't rock a row. Listen. Tofer. He calls himself tofer.

Bottom line for me on Lethal Weapon. Movies are better. and also they keep adding things that make them better. Like Pesci and two. Chris Rock. René Russo and three. Chris Rock and four. That's great.

What do you get by the time you get Oceans 13? You get the actor formerly known as Al Pacino. Right. Which apparently I read about that too. They shot all his scenes in like a week to get a minute out real quick. Once you, once you, there's, I love reading stuff like that. Like something about a movie clicks from the place, like, oh, that's why it sucked. I love your game, and I think it'd be perfect for our casino and Biloxi.

Oh, no, sir. Shoneff belongs here in Las Vegas. Not Biloxi. Come on, you know what it is. What is it? Jackson? Where games go to die. Come on.

What was it? Tallulah, Mississippi. Now that I forget. Tupelo? Oh, I'm sorry. A Tupelo casino. That's where games go to die. I'm only to do for him what I'm only do for him.

Set a placement, open a night. My casino. There's a lot of holes in that movie. The whole movie is fucking horseshit. I mean, it involves like bacteria and pumping smells into places and John Cheatel is evil can evil. Yeah. But I'll always put it on. I'm telling you, if you were stealing shit in Las Vegas, you will get my two hours of attention every time.

Are you going to pull a heist this weekend? Are you going to knock off? really talk about. Because on a fight night, the Bellagio, the Mirage and the MGM Grand and their vault, their shared vault, despite being in completely different parts of the strip. Wait, don't ruin the oceans. With my geography. All right, you got to go.

I got to go. Thanks for listening to this episode of Puck Soup. Thanks to Demetri Filipovich for joining us and being smart. We'll try to be smart, too. Thanks to him, thanks to his inspiration. Did you ever know my math hero? that's all I got thanks

at Wichinsky on Twitter read me on Puck Daddy listen to my other podcast Merrick versus Wichinsky by both of our books the one I wrote with Lozo the 100 greatest players

of all time in NHL history and other stuff and then also take your eye off the puck at a watch hockey one over and look and here's Lozo in the waning moments where he has to run to a Rangers game um make sure make sure you tune in tomorrow

I got a good I got a good thing based on our boss Jonah carries. Which place can they find it? It's going to meet the comeback. And basically, if you like player trade value rankings and you enjoy Twitter feuds and you like Jonah, you might enjoy this thing. Jonah carry a Twitter feud. Old boss.

Bitter asshole on Twitter. Oh, shit. It was a stolen. Bye, everybody. Now leavingnerdist.com.