Puck Soup - Dundon's Revenge

Episode Date: September 10, 2021

The boys discuss the NHL going back to the Olympics (maybe), the Hurricanes signing away Jesperi Kotkaniemi in an act of vengeance, the future of Sidney Crosby and Patrice Bergeron, Pierre Dorion, David Backes, the Eichel trade talks, The Matrix and a game show that marries the MTV VMAs and the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Sponsored by Draft Kings and Manly Bands.  

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Both two. I'm Greg Wichenski from ESPN. Back from Vacation, where I didn't check Twitter. I'm Ryan Lambert from E.P.Rinkside.com.

I've been looking at Twitter all day every day. It's cool to do it. Sean McNeugh from The Athletic. Twitter sucks. You're in Puck Soup and Twitter does suck. And I've learned through the years how to properly vacation in the off season. I don't look at Twitter. Ruby finally got me to reach the next level of vacation,

which is to put the away message on my email, which is the first time I've ever done that. I think I was always afraid that if you do that and you get the little email back saying, blah, blah, blah, blah, we'll be out of the office until blah, blah, blah, that you just keep getting it every time you email somebody. But apparently technology means that you don't. You just get it once. And then you never get to see it again until they come back. So shout out to away messages.

Still running strong since AOL in the 1990s. That's right. Blink 182 lyrics. That's right. I read books. I went to Aruba. It was a good time. And thanks to the boys and everybody for hanging tight while I was away.

But I'm now like, I'm in that part of vacation where I feel like I'm emerging from a coma. I did a radio hit with the curtain blog boys yesterday. And luckily, I think we talked about things that had happened that morning. because otherwise I'm a little hazy on what's happened in the last couple weeks. What did I miss? We're going to the Olympics. That's fun. Well, they're going to say that right up until they say, ooh, COVID.

I don't know. Yeah, so it's like the Olympics, but they're out, but there's an out still to say that we don't have to go to the Olympics. Correct. Yeah. They're not, they're not committed to everything. Well, because so part of it was that there was initially the report that the IIAHF wouldn't cover COVID insurance costs. And the NHL was like, well, we're not fucking doing it because that's what the

NHL does. And then they were like, the IHF is going to pay for them, but only for the qualifiers. So like the Slovenia-Austria game or whatever that nobody cares about. And like the last I saw, I might be wrong about this, but the last I saw was there was no such agreement in place for the actual Olympics in February. so determining who's going to be in the tournament Which is now done by the way Right, yeah, that was at the end of August

Yeah What do you think, Sean? You think we're going to go Or do you think they're going to pull the court on this? I'm a little more optimistic than I was a week or two ago But I'm kind of with Ryan on this I still think Betman and the NHL clearly don't want to do this

and I think they will be looking for any reason not to go right up until people are on a plane in the air on the way there. The only thing that gives me pause about that, and again, like, let's just be honest, I'm fully expecting the tablecloth to be, you know, yanked off the table and yada, yada, yada on this thing. But it would cause such chaos in the schedule. And like, as you do the podcast, single game ticket, are going on sale today for games, the promotional schedules are being put out there and all this shit. Like, I get the sense that, I don't know, there are so many things that are wheels that are in motion that would tell me that we're going, that I kind of feel we're going. But it's really hard to look at this out that the NHL has and to expect them not to take it

when it's an event they don't really want to do. But I also think they kind of want, I always thought they wanted to go to China, right? So if it was a different, if it was a different venue, like say Korea, for example. Yeah, if it was Korea, yeah, they didn't go to, right? So, like, I always kind of felt like they did want to go there and try to make inroads into that market. So I don't know. I'm with you. Like, I guess, I guess this would be your classic cautiously optimistic situation when it comes to the Olympics.

And the good news is the NHL has never burned us on being optimistic about. them doing something that we would all like them to do. That's correct. I mean, it's not like they've ever canceled a season or anything of that nature. Sean, have you guys been running your Olympic team shit yet on the athletic? I think we ran a few, yeah, and we'll be updating pretty constantly. But yeah, there were a couple of the guys, I think, picked teams for each of the big six, at least. I'm always fascinated by the veteran rookie dynamic, well, not rookie, but younger player dynamic on these Olympic teams.

Like, especially when it comes to Canada, I think it probably goes back to the Mike Green situation. And also, I think, P.K. at one point, although he did get on, I think, later on another team. But like, the notion of you're not ready yet or we're going to give this spot to a veteran guy, it's, that dynamic of the Olympic team process is always really fascinating to me. Yeah, and it's, you know, they, it's, it's, it's, it's big tournament, it's big pressure. Coaches tend to turn to the older guys who've, quote unquote, been there. And who they've had dreams about. Fucking greatest thing that ever happened in the history of hockey journalism was Burnside getting, I think it was Brian Burke, right, to admit?

It was Ryan, it was, it wasn't even a game to admit. You remember, it was, it was Burnside. And Kevin Allen, they were kind of like flies on the wall, right, for the process. And I think it was just Burke said it during the meetings. Unreal. I had a dream that Keith Yandel blew it or whatever the fuck. They were like, so we got to bring like the 19th Best American Defenseman instead, like Jack Johnson, whoever. Oh, that rocks.

I love hockey. Let me give you this team that this is what CJ put together in one of his last acts at Sportsnet. And shout out to CJ for his new venture. with the Toronto Star. CJB and Chris Johnston, our friend of the podcast. Team Canada. McKinnon, McDavid,

Marner, Marchand, Crosby, Bergeron, classic line. Yeah. Huberdo Point, Stone, Tavaris, Couture, Stamco,

Shifley and Barzell are your extras. O'Reilly, Hall, Horvatt, Sagan, Couture, drew, all left off the team. defenseman Theodore and Petrangelo Shabbat, McCar, Riley, Hamilton, Aaron Ecklad, and Bowen Byram are your extras. And he says that Drew Dowdy would not be on the team, much to make Ryan Lambert Tartsing.

Price, Bennington, and McKenzie Blackwood would be your three goaltenders. Oof! That sucks. Put Price in a hermetically sealed bubble to make sure that nothing happens to him. you're telling me this team's going to beat the Americans? I don't see it. I mean... I mean, it's really good, as pretty usual. Yeah, of course it is. But...

Yeah, I mean, you know. I don't know. Like, Mark Schifley on a Canadian Olympic team, that was the one, like, a lot of lists either had him, you know, as first cut or last on the list. And it's like, is Mark Schifley really, like, one of the, whatever... 18 best Canadian forwards. That seems high to me. To me, to go back to the initial impetus of this conversation,

I'd be fucking shocked if Ryan O'Reilly was left off Team Canada. Like, just completely shocked if he was left off a team. Yeah, I mean, like, there, this is not a conversation to have in September, I guess, but like, the edge case is like the guys, like, Like who might be on the bubble, I guess you would say, seem to be to me more like the older guys, like a Stamcoast and a, I don't know, like John Tavares, maybe we would even say. And like Shifley,

Sean Couture, maybe. Like those are the guys where it's like, yeah, I think I'd want them over those other two. But I'd also want, like, younger guys. Like, I think like a, I don't know, maybe he's, not that young, but, like, Bo Horvatt has a legitimate case and, like, maybe even Nick Suzuki, you know, over, over, like, Stephen Stamco's, who, you know, he's good, but... Well, the Stamcoast thing is that he hasn't appeared on one yet, right? Like, that's sort of my thing?

Really? Never? I believe that's... Isn't that the case where he's just been injured for all of them? He had... That does sound like... He had the injury last time, but broke his leg. I think he was left off of one, and then maybe he was...

injured for another. Let me dial up the only. He's never played in the Olympics. He's played for Team Canada at the last World Cup. Sure. Right. Yeah. So this, I think that's one of those, let's do, let's do Stevie a solid kind of things. Sure. Maybe. It could be. But plus isn't, isn't Cooper the coach? Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe that's what they're thinking is that Cooper would bring his. I'm, I don't think that Tampa Bay Lightning would ever run into problems with a star player being left off of Team Canada. That doesn't mean. Not at all.

Not at all. Stephen Stamco's Future Ranger. Mark Sheifley, by the way, point a game or better the last five straight seasons. So he's really good. I'm not saying he's not really good. But I will say

when he's not losing his mind and ruining his team's playoff running. Well, he also doesn't really play defense, I think, is the other thing. Like, yeah. Yeah, you know. That matters. If you play defense, I didn't normally, you would say he doesn't come back into his own zone.

But we learned that he does do that. Sometimes he gets really excited about it. Sometimes he gets very excited about back checking. Sometimes they do know that Kyle Connor will be on Team USA, right? And they're still going to put Shifley on Team Canada? Yeah. Yeah, I always enjoy this where it's like, oh, Shifley's on Team Canada. Maybe they're not as struck.

Meanwhile, Brian Rust is like inked into the third line on Team USA. Yeah, how dare you? Well, again, the. real thing, as always, comes down to goaltending, and it's like, yeah, we have McKenzie Blackwood. He's going to be starting for Team Canada. And it's like, I mean, I guess it really tests the theory of if everybody in front of the goalie is good enough. I'm really surprised that CJ's list didn't have flurry on it.

That's the one that seems like a... You might retire by then, you know? You could. But, I mean, when the raining Vesina winner is, is... You would think he would have a... Okay, I mean, again, like, the Chicago team is going to really put that, was the Vezna thing, a systems thing, array, Mark Andre Fleury thing. I think in C.J's defense, like, Canada's been infamous for trying to always have a younger goalie as, like, the third guy to kind of bring him along. But I think what you're saying is that if price is your guy.

If that's the case, then I don't see you taking Bittington over Flurry. Although, you know, if Fleury's age, three months into the season, he could be having a lousy year. But it's just if we're picking the teams right now. But yeah, we can go back and forth on Canada versus USA and all that stuff. Connor Hallibuck might be the guy who just decides that we don't need to have that debate. Let me give you a friend of the podcast, Sean Leahy's Team USA roster. This is on NBC Sports. Kyle Connor, Austin Matthews, Patrick Kane, Matthew Kachuk, Eichl, De Brinket, Gidreau, T.J., I'm sorry, J.T. Miller, T.J. Miller, T.J. Miller, and Team USA, would be a real, real boon for us. A real locker room cut up. That's right.

Jake Gensel. Max, Patsy, Ready, Joe Pavelski, Brock Besser, T.J. O'Shee, Jack Hughes. This would be leaving off Dylan Larkin, Blake Wheeler, Chris Kreider, Brady Kachuk, and JVR. I think. that Brady could... I think both Kachucks make Team USA. I don't think there's a chance that they don't. Defense. Slavin, McAvoy,

Hughes, Fox, Quinn Hughes, I should say. Zach Werensky, Seth Jones, John Carlson, Ryan McDonough, and then your goalies are Halibuck, Gibson, and Thatcher Demko,

although Leahy says that perhaps Spencer Knight could be in the mix. Yeah, okay, sure. So we're putting a lot of faith here And a healthy Jack Eichel, I think, on Team USA is what we're doing. Which, no.

Hell, let's get into Jack Eichel. I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess I kind of hoped that he would have been traded in the time that I was away. But I guess the latest is that they're just reengaging with teams to see where the talks are. Oh, and of course he shit canned his agents. and went to Paperson. So that's probably a good development for the wheels turning on this a little bit. Are you surprised he hasn't been traded yet? No, because, like, if they weren't going to trade him in July, what pressure is there to do it in August or early September.

The pressure mounts when training camp starts. Right. Right. So like if they didn't do it around the draft or maybe the start of free agency, I didn't think it was going to get done over the summer. I thought it was going to get done fall times. And then it comes down to the two things, which is they still haven't resolved the injury situation and the treatment situation. And related to that, if his health hanging over this is dragging his market. value down so much that the Sabres can't get a decent offer, then at some point, Kevin Adams

might have to go to them and say, guys, I need this guy back in the lineup. I need him to show that he can, you know, come out, play for a month, be awesome, dominate, and let's bump the, so that some team out there will bump up their offer to the point that I can make a deal that's not going to get me instantly fired. And then we all win. And then it's a question of does Jack Eichael grudgingly go back or does he say, screw you, I played my last game with the Sabres, and then we kind of get to a whole new layer of mess. And what's interesting about it is that normally when you get a situation where a guy wants out, there's usually pressure on the team to make it happen because why would you let an asset just die on the vine? You need to get the players that you get for the asset and improve your team.

There's no pressure on the Sabres to be a better team. It behooves them to not have Jack Ico play this year. There's no pressure that, you know, he's not a year removed from free agency or something like that. Right. He's under team control for a long time. Yeah. Like, they don't want the return for Eichael right now. They just want to be as bad as they possibly can this season and get themselves a nice shiny new Jack Eichael.

They'd name Shane Wright or some shit. So that process continues to play out. Ryan, if you were a betting man, where does Jack Eichael go? Well, based on what Patrice Bergeron was saying the other day, the pressure is on the Boston ruins to figure something out so that Charlie Coil isn't their number one center next year. That's a very good point. Sean, if you were a betting man, where would Jack Uncle end up?

Yeah, I mean, Boston's not a bad one. I do think there's going to be hesitancy to move him within the division. I'm like a lot of people. I always thought LA made a ton of sense. It seems like the messaging out of LA has always been that they're maybe less interested than we all assume, but that might just be smart messaging. And I've said before, I look at Anaheim as a bit of a dark horse. They've got the assets just like L.A., they've got, certainly they could use them in the lineup. Ryan Getslaff, who knows, if this is his last year.

I think that makes a lot of sense And for Buffalo, obviously, you get them as far away as possible. I think that could make some sense. And then obviously, you know, of course, the Rangers check pretty much every box to the point where that one's almost so obvious that the fact that it hasn't happened already makes you wonder if there's a reason that it won't.

Right. Well, I am a betting man, and that's why I use draft kings. That's fine. Today's episode of Puck Soup was sponsored by Draft Kings. Now is the time to celebrate. The first NFL Sunday of the season is about to kick off in Draft Kings. The official daily fantasy partner of the NFL is putting you in the center of this weekend's action. New customers can get a free shot at $1 million, a $1 million top prize with their first deposit by signing up using Puck Soup, all one word, P-U-C-S-O-U-P.

Get on the action now. simple. You pick your lineup. You stay under the salary cap and you see how your team stacks up against the competition. And you can feel the NFL action like never before with a free shot at a million dollar payday for playing Daily Fantasy. Download the Draft King's app now. I got it up my phone. Use the code puck soup, all one word. And this week new customers, only new customers, can get a free shot at a $1 million top prize and compete for millions and prizes across all contests. Enter code puck soup. You get a free shot at a $1 million top prize with your first deposit.

That's code Puck Soup. Only get Draft Kings, the official daily fantasy partner of the NFL. You got to have a minimum $5 deposit, an eligibility restriction supply, and see DraftKings.com for details. And welcome back NFL. So it was the best time to be a Jets fan before the first game is played. You mentioned Bergeron. That was the thing that happened while I was gone. He said that this might be his last.

season or something? He said he's not thinking about next season yet, which is I think what you would expect him to say. But everybody then interpreted that as, and he's retiring the second the Bruin season ends. They're never playing. Like, he's taking off his jersey and he's, you know, he's throwing his skates over the Yes, he's over the high wire or the electrical wiring or whatever you want to say. He's leaving his boots in the middle of the ring, as it were, and walking away.

Right, yeah. Just like Cody Rhodes has done several times. Yeah, the honor's paper. Yep, that's right. I hope he doesn't go. I love watching Patrice Burjohn, but he's also been in the league for, this is his 18th season in the NHL, so I get it, man. And he doesn't play, you know, those aren't light seasons. Yeah, yeah, he's played a shitload of hockey since across the, uh, tough.

hockey and injuries and all that sort of stuff. And the other piece of this, obviously, this is the last year of his contract. So when he says I'm not thinking about beyond, is he talking retirement? Is he talking about an extension? Is there any possibility that he would go anywhere else? Of course not.

We can't picture that, except we said the same thing for Zedano Chara, so who knows. But at the end of the day, this guy's, what is it, 36 years old? You know that the clock is ticking. and yeah, at some point that error is going to end, and maybe it's this year, but maybe not. So by the end of the season, he'll have cleared 12,

if he plays the full 82, obviously, he'll be well clear of 1,200 games played, and then there's another 160 in the playoffs, and then after that he's played a bunch of Olympics, tournaments and World Cups and all that sort of stuff. So it's a lot of hockey for Patrice Burjuran. He's probably all in, he's probably looking at almost 1,500 career games at the highest level. And again, this is a guy, he lost a full season to the lockout.

He was on the 0405 Providence Bruins played a full season there. He, you know, he played in like the Swiss League during one. one of the lockouts, I'm pretty sure. So, like, even when he's not playing in the NHL, he's, like, getting 60 games here and there elsewhere. So. Right. And, like you said, a whole whole lot of playoff games, too, are on that mileage meter.

You know, I was doing some fantasy hockey stuff this week, and I was looking at that line with him and Marchand and Pashtonak. And I'm, like, Marshaun's number is the last, like, five or six years have been fucking insane. He's unbelievable. So good. when does that regression hit? You think he's, how many more years of, like, peak productivity does Bradmore shan have, do you think?

A couple. You know, like, I don't know what his contract looks like, but can he get to the end of this contract? Let's see here. He's got four more years. Yeah, I don't see him doing this until he's 37. And he is a guy that because he kind of developed into a, it may be a, it may be a, made the leap to being a star later in his career than most guys do. He didn't follow the typical ageing curve.

He's older than you think. Like if you're just kind of vaguely aware of, you know, you're like... He's almost Bertrande. He's three years ago. He feels like he's a 28, 29-year-old, right? But he's not... Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, if you're Boston, you've already lost Creachie this year,

Tuka Rask, who knows if he'll ever play for you again? You know, I don't, I think the whole window closing cliche gets overused, but there's definitely a transition happening with this team. Yeah, and again, like, if he retires next year and they don't go out and get like a number one center for next season, their number one center on the depth chart right now is Charlie fucking coil. Like, they don't have anybody in the system who could step into that role, you know, comfortably or whatever. And so, yeah, like the idea that the window's closing, we don't even have to get into what their defense looks like or, you know, is Linus Olmark really, you know, capable of being a Tuka Rask level goalie behind this team. You have to ask yourself, like, who the fuck is going to play center for this team next year? And again, like this is a full year in advance. We're worrying about this, but.

How hilarious would it be if they traded for Jack Eichael and somehow, Jake DeBrusk wasn't in the trade after being on the trade block for the last four years. I mean, that would be like Buffalo going, yeah, we're not really all that interested, right? Like that's... It wouldn't be because the Bruins weren't trying to get Jake Debrusk tossed in there. It would be because Buffalo was like, yeah, it's going to be a big pass for us. Thank you, though. We're like two number ones, uh, Grizzlick, Debrusk.

What was that? Uh, Jake, Jake Debrusk, you know, you guys need a forward, right? Okay, go on. Sean, you mentioned Bergeron ending his career in Boston. And I had a conversation this week with somebody about do you think Sidney Crosby will retire a penguin? Yeah, or nay?

Yeah, I think he will. I think that's by far the most likely outcome. I also think history has taught us to never say never. But, yeah, I certainly if I had to bet, I'd say the odds are significantly on the side that he retires as a penguin. Even if the team is going down cycle, like, I mean, this is Gino's last season under contract. I think it's also Latang's last season under contract. Yeah, so we could be looking at a real transitional phase for this franchise.

And the thing I'm trying to balance is, on the one hand, the Mario factor. Like, it's clear that Mario has had a huge impact on his life. Mario was a career penguin. I'm sure Sid sees himself as... On really bad teams when he finished his career. So, like, I feel like there's a certain lane that he's in to be the guy who's a career penguin. On the other hand, this guy's like the most ferocious competitor we've seen in the NHL in like 20 years. And the idea that he's going to play out the string on penguins' teams that aren't at all in the championship picture,

is kind of hard to square. I mean, I think I've said this in the show before. Like, my perfect scenario for Sid is to go to Colorado and win a cup with McKinnon. I don't think he'd want to do that at his age to go to the Western Conference and start flying around all the fucking places. Like, there's an advantage of being an older player in the East. But that's my ideal Sid scenario is you go to Colorado, you win a cup with McKinnon. But I don't, I tend to believe he's going to. retire a penguin. Yeah, as a fan, I love that idea.

But I don't know, he's got four years left on his contract. Who knows when the collapse is coming in Pittsburgh? You know, maybe it's soon. I just, I don't know. To me, yeah, he's, he's an insane competitor, but he's got the three cups already. This isn't a case of you have a Ray Bork saying, I got to go, I got to go chase my Cup somewhere before I'm out of time. Who knows? Maybe at some point when he's still under contract, he goes to the Penguins and says, if you want to move me and really jumpstart the rebuild, go ahead.

But I, like I said, you know, you never say never. We can go down the pretty long list of players that we would have said at some point, yeah, that guy is definitely finishing his career there, and it doesn't happen. but I far more likely than not in my mind that he wraps it up in Pittsburgh and plus also you know look at what the NHL is these days like how bad are the Penguins going to be are they going to be a team that's you know not has no chance at making the playoffs because if you got if you can get in the playoffs you're contending for a cup so or at least in you know in his mindset they may be so I don't see it well I think what you're trying to say is that they have 32 million

They have $32.7 million in open cap space after the season with Gino and Latang coming off the cap. Yep. How much of the I want to play either for the Penguins or with Sidney Crosby could be a chip to get people to come to Pittsburgh? That gets you the Milan Loochichites. Ooh, I can't wait to play. Do you think so? Yeah. I mean, I think guys want to play where teams.

are going to be good. And not, especially with Sidney Crosby being, whatever, 35 years old, 34, I don't know how old he is, whatever. Like, the idea that you're going to be like, oh, I got to go play next to Sidney Crosby. He's going to make me look unbelievable. Like, that was true four or five years ago. But, like, just, I don't know, the idea of, like, oh, I got, I got to practice with Cindy Crosby. I don't know, man. Yeah.

One other thing just to throw out there when you look at the penguins and with their cap room, the president of this team is Brian Burke. Brian Burke said he was too old and impatient to do a rebuild with the Maple Leafs 10 years ago. Right. And that team did not have Sidney Crosby on it. So Brian Burke's looking at a roster with a bunch of holes in cap space and Sidney Crosby and maybe not a good roster, maybe a roster that most people would say you got to start over, I got a feeling he's not going to be looking for the long term.

I think you're probably right. And I think that even though he's been extraordinarily successful, I think Sid's probably still chasing a ring too. Speaking of chasing a ring, today's episode of Puck Soup is sponsored by Manly Band. Less good. Now listen, they're both really good. I'm ready. I'm ready and rested to do ad transitions. Guys, for the better part of your lives, you better have some of fantasizing about the perfect wedding ring, the cut, the clarity, the color, you name it.

But for us, what are we doing? We're not looking at that stuff. It's been a tough process to go find the perfect wedding band for you. But luckily, Manly Bands is here to rescue from this hellish band buying experience. They offer your hand the freedom to look how you want it to look in just about every type of earthly material imaginable Even from space You go to the manly ring size or for Manly Bands

To ensure that your ring will fit perfectly during work and play Once you know your size Here's the fun part Manly Bands has an insane collection Of materials to choose from Gold, wood Antler, Steel Lambert, even dinosaur bone.

If you were to get a manly band, would it matter what dinosaur it was to you? Or just that it was a dinosaur? Yeah, it would, but we don't have to get into it. Okay, that's fine. I'm not, I know, I don't want to get into the details. You could choose one of Manly Band's curated collections, like the Jack Daniels Whiskey Barrel Collection.

For me, I went to the site, got the finger-sized, went on the collection, and found the most hockey appropriate ring I could find. The instigator. It's made at tungsten, has an awesome rose gold plating on the inside, black plating on the sides. Really comfortable fit and an awesome looking ring. Once you've selected your band, Manly Bands offers free shipping worldwide, a 30-day exchange policy, and a free warranty. To order your Manly Band and get 21% off, plus a free silver.

silicone ring, go to manly bands.com slash puck. That's M-A-N-L-Y-B-A-N-D-S dot com slash puck for 21% off, manly bands. The best damn rings, period. They got some cool shit there. You should really check out the collection. It's fun to even browse. All right. Let's get to the story that really pissed me off that I wasn't here to write about it, which was the offer sheet to Jasperi Kakamiani from the Carolina Hurie. Caircans, which you guys talked about, I think, in the mailbag, but didn't know how it would conclude. And spoiler, it concluded with the Montreal Canadiens not matching. Is that where you thought this was going to go?

Yeah, we called it. We're actually really smart, so we got that one right. Now, why did you think they wouldn't match? Too much money for a player they scratched in the Stanley Cup final. Yeah. That's it. And in fact, I think it was on our show, but maybe it was on my other one. I don't like to hear about that.

But I think we called it pretty much exactly because we said the most likely scenario was Bergevent doesn't match and then flips first round pick. Again, very smart. A better, a player who's better right now to a rebuilding team. And that's kind of what happened. It was a little, the trade was a little more complicated. But, right. And honestly, I think that.

there's sort of two questions here of did Bergervant play this right? There's, did he play it right going back to the moment that the offer sheet gets signed and he's got a $6 million player to make a decision on? And in that case, I think he did. I think he did the best that he could under that scenario. And then you go back even further and say, did he play it right the whole way along, including the time where he had time to get this guy signed, where he had time presumably to make a trade with Carolina before the offer sheet,

that's where I think it gets a little more dicey. But yeah, once the $6 million number was out there, this was probably the best option that he had. I wrote it while we were waiting, and it ended up happening more or less that way. And yeah, I think that works for Montreal, probably works for Arizona, and Carolina gets the player,

and now we'll see if he's worth what they gave up. I really, really enjoyed going back and listening to Don Waddell and Tom Dundon talking about this process. What Elle was on with Custinson, Gentilly on their podcast, and then Dundon was on SportsNet. I heard an interview that he did. And, like, I think they're kind of being honest in the sense that they're like, we wanted to add another top six forward, and we wanted to add somebody who was young, and we

couldn't find anybody via trade, and we knew that this was a player that was available through an offer sheet. like I kind of buy all that I think that the downplaying of the revenge aspect of this has been pretty funny and funny in the sense that if you listen to Dundan's

interview on Sportsnet I think he was on the writer's block he just lets the mask slip a bunch of times right he's like it's like very much kind of you know doing the the K-fabe we just wanted to sign a really good young player

we couldn't find him through trade and then yada yada yada and they're like like, well, what about that $20 signing bonus? He's like, well, you know, we're in the entertainment industry. And that's reasonable, right? Like, they can want the player. And then at the same time, once they've decided that this is the player they're going after, to drop all the rest of the stuff onto it, I mean, you know, clearly they didn't,

they didn't sit down and go like, we'll give you a $10 signing bonus. And his age, you went, no, no, no. It's got to be 20. I said, okay. So, yeah, I mean, that stuff was very obviously clouded in there. But I have seen, you know, I've seen Montreal fans saying, you know, oh, Bergevin outwitted them because Carolina didn't even want the guy. Carolina was just trying to jack up Montreal's cap situation and Bergevin 4D chess them right out.

And that's not the case. Carolina wanted the player. I think that's accurate. And shout out to the social media. a person who did the exact wording of the previous release. Yeah, that was freaking epic. I loved it. Fucking tremendous.

Yeah, it's so cool. You don't think that was cool? No, it's fucking epic meme shit. Fuck off. Who cares? Why is it epic meme shit? What happened to fun? Did we stop having fun?

The guy's in a different band now, right? Like the bleachers is that guy now? Right? That took me a second when I got it. Do you mean Jack Antenoff? Oh, yeah. Thanks, Greg. Well, he's a super producer. He produced Lord's album.

Yeah, and everybody loved it, so it worked out great. No, people didn't like it as much. Oh, no. Yeah, no. It's like the social media stuff, he said, turning the conversation back to hockey. Yeah. Oh, right. It's, you know what, this is, it's the classic NHL thing, right?

A team or somebody does something kind of funny, and it is kind of funny, but then we all have to pretend it's, the funniest thing. And then they're like, oh, you like that shit? Well, here we go. And then they do it for the next eight months straight. And it's like, yeah, no, we got it. You're, you're being fun on social media. Yeah. I think that we can still worry. Social media account is like me having like an 11 year old in the house where it's, it drops a joke. And you're like, oh, no, I've made a mistake because now, oh, fuck. It's not, it's not just my 11 year old.

Oh, no. No. No. I think that we can still award points for creativity. I think there's a difference between this and, you know, the 90th joke that the Blue Jackets make in a day. You know, I think this was really good. I disagree with your epic bake and take. Do you think that Cockney-Eame makes the hurricanes all that much better? Yeah, I think they're going to not put him in the middle, which will help him. and they'll put him there for with a sender who is good.

Like if he's on their third line next to Vince Trochak or whatever, you're like, oh, yeah, there's going to be a guy who can, like, help him succeed without all the pressure of, if you don't shoot 20%, we're going to, we're going to bench your ass for four games. That, like, Montreal kind of forced its way into treating him like that, where it's like, well, he was fine. working season, and then the second he didn't do that, they were like, we got to send your ass to

LaValle. Like, that's, you're out of here, buddy. And then, like, it just created this cycle where unless he just had a point every other game, or a goal every other game, they were like, no, no, you're not playing the right way or whatever. In Carolina, they don't have to have that pressure on him. So I think, I think they can put him in the position to succeed. And, again, like, obviously, he won't be working.

worth $6.1 million unless he goes way off. But if it ends up with them giving him like four years at four and a half or something like that, I think it all works out in the end and obviously like he's still only 21. Like that's the thing. He feels like he's been around forever, but he hasn't. Yeah. And I think it's really bad news for a Nino Nita Ryder, who previously would have been your second line left wing to play with Trocheck.

and natius, but, like, I think Cochney-Yami is going to probably take that spot. And, uh, well, they also don't need to be in the, in the, in the, Nino Nider writer is really good, but they don't need to be, he's a pending free agent, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. So they don't need to be in the, the propping up Nino business too much, but also, like, nice to have the option, you know? Mm. A lot of people in New Jack City were in the propping up Nino business.

Did they leave him exposed in the expansion draft? It's a good question. I don't know. I forget if they did or they didn't. I remember there being discussion if they were going to do that, but I don't remember if they actually went around to it. Let's see here. Yeah, just as you got it.

I like it for them. I think this is a player that was really mishandled by Montreal. Yeah, they left him exposed. Yep. Yeah. I think the most interesting thing about him is, like this notion of he's got this leverage now with this with the salary and what the qualifying offer needs to be after this one year deal but there seems to be this theory of like well they

could get them for less against the cap if they extend them for multiple years if you have you seen that do you buy that i yeah i think so it's hard for me to believe that the player is going to give up the the the absolute you know complete leverage that he has in the situation to then take some like a huge haircut on the cap hit. I don't think it's going to be huge. Yeah. I don't buy this idea that they've got a under the table deal where he's going to be making $2 million again.

But yeah, I mean, if it comes down to, I have the leverage to get one year at six, but I'm being offered three, four point something or five point something. Yeah. I think it would make a lot of sense for potentially to sign a deal like that. it depends on if he um if he uh also like plays well this year you know because uh Carolina if he doesn't play well Carolina could just go well we fucking tried we're not going to qualify him see you and then and then he's back on the market and looking for uh a good deal that no team would give him because now he's failed with two teams consecutively or you know that would be the perception so

It really depends on if he can actually play well for the full 82. Yeah. Where are we on Christian Dvorak? I've never really been high on him, to be honest with you. He's fine. He's a number two center. Is he, though? Yeah.

Well, look, like, you know, two years ago, he played really well because he got to play with Taylor Hall. And then last year, he didn't play well because he played with Lawson, Crouse, and Phil Kessel. So, you know, do we want to say he's somewhere in the middle of there and maybe trending more toward Taylor Hall because, like, Lawson Krause sucks? Like, he's a replacement-level player. Yeah, I think that's the case where, like, you know, if you, look, like, Montreal has the wingers to put next to him. Like, if he plays with Gallagher. Yeah. There you go.

Like, Gallagher is a really good player. So, you know, again, like I was just on the radio in Montreal and they got mad at me for suggesting the Canadians maybe weren't a playoff team, which is... Oh, my God. Yeah. Really? Yep. They were mad about that? Yeah.

Are we still living in the fantasy land where they... Greg, let me stop you right there. Yes, we are. I swear to God, man. It doesn't detract anything from what they did in the playoffs to say that they wouldn't have been. a playoff team were it not for last season's realignment. It's fucking fantasy land not to say otherwise. Yeah. And also, again, like, now I'm just relitigating what I said on the radio like three days ago. Well, consider it. Consider it practice. Go ahead and give it to us here.

Yeah. You know, they're in a, they're in a division where the four best teams are Tampa, Boston, Florida, and Toronto. Like, how, how do you figure Montreal is in the top three of those teams? after, again, like having gotten worse this summer, like they made the best of a bad situation with all the players they let go. And most of the players they let go, I would have let go as well. But also like, you know,

okay, we're replacing Shea Weber, who's out indefinitely, maybe forever, with David Savard. Right. Okay. And so, we're replacing Phil Dono with Christian Dvorak. Okay.

I mean, those are guys who are, not bad NHL players, but they're also not as good as the guys they're replacing. They're 100% not as good as Tampa, Toronto, or Florida. Even if you say Boston falls off, Boston's probably still better than them. Yep. And so then you're looking at one wildcard spot. Yeah. And then you're looking at Metro.

The Islanders, Penguins, Capitals, Flyers, Rangers, and Hurricanes. Are they better than two of those teams? Who are your top three in the Metro right now? Islanders one Hurricanes three is two three and then like

one of Pittsburgh or Philly or the Rangers like I think you know I think it's very credible that I don't I'm not a big Flyers guy this year I don't think they're all that good um

well let me let me rephrase that they have no safety net if if Carter Hart isn't back to normal I I'm a Carter Heart bounceback guy. So I think they're going to be in the playoffs. I think it's fairly likely, but also like if it doesn't happen, I won't be surprised.

And then there, one B is Martin Jones. And it's like, well, have a good offseason, I guess. Well, I remember you talking during the summer that you think the capitals are going to really fall off this year. You know, I think that they're all pretty old. You know, like that's mainly the issue. And much like the penguins, it definitely. is a case of like, oh, I've been saying that for like two or three years. And so at some point, you just got to go, well, you know, show me, uh, show me when it happens,

you know, like, because, like, I guess what I'm saying is I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah. But also, like, I think it's more likely than not that one of those two teams is just, like, dead in a ditch by the end of the season. Who's your top three in the metro, Sean? Islanders. Hurricanes. They love the Islanders, huh?

Well, I mean, part of it is I'm just, I'm so sick of being wrong about them every time. And then yesterday on the other show, we randomly started talking about the Metro and I started rhyming off teams. And I forgot the Islanders existed. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Trying to make amends. So, yeah. So you're overcompensating by just saying the Allender's.

100%. Absolutely. Okay. Gotcha. Uh, and then. Jeez. Honestly, before you go on, I think the Islanders are a playoff team, and I 100% think it'll have to do with being in the new arena, too. Like, new arenas always give people a shot in the arm.

That's my theory. You know what I think is more the fact that, like, they consistently do the thing that they do well and get to the conference. Like, I don't, I think the new arena has less to do with it than the last two, three years of success they've had. It's the new arena, and also they've now officially signed Zach. Carrizé. Those two factors combined tell me they were a playoff team. Well, I mean, again, like Lou Lamarillo, playing 40 chess, he

signed a guy on July 1, well, you know, whatever the equivalent of July 1 this year was, and then was like, oh, did I sign him? Who knows? And everybody's like, Lou, you've done it again, my friend. I so fucking love that. I love that about the Islanders. I love the

Islanders with the last team whose expansion draft list leaked. I love the fact that the NHL is now primed where the minute one of the insiders says trade call pending, blah blah blah blah. Like the press release comes out like five minutes after that. And Lou literally is announcing signings that have already been broken three weeks. Yeah.

No, it's fucking fantastic. For no reason. Right. Like no competitive. There was no other team. Well, no. It's so that nobody can figure out what he's got going on and what his cap situation is. Yeah.

Yeah. Some other team out there is like get ready to trade for Jack. but they're like, wait, we need to know if Zach Parise is on the Islander's down before we... Let me tell you. I'll do it right now. I get texts from the Islanders about when they announced these things. September... When was signing day?

Signing day was what, like... July 28th, I think, yeah. Okay. I got a text on September 1st. Islanders transactions, colon, Anthony Bavillier, Casey Zezicus, Carl Palmerian, alias, have all agreed to multi-year contracts. September 1st! Yeah, like every team in the league was like, damn, I really want to sign Zach Pruise to a PTO.

And he's like, well, just you wait and see, fellas, because actually we got to live. It's total wrestling bullshit where it's like, did we sign Brian Danielson? Well, you'll just have to tune in to find out. And it's like, yeah, of course they did. I don't know. C.M. Punx in the ring talking about the yes chant and has like BD written on his sneakers. But I don't know. It could be anybody.

Could be anybody. All right. A couple more things. Oh, last thing on the offer sheet business. This is now two offer sheets, what, in the last three years, was it? When was the Ajo one? I even forget. Two years ago, yeah.

Is we seeing more? Are we going to see more or no? We always get so excited when these things happen and they never happen again. Are we going to see more? there's sort of two sides of that. The one side says Montreal tried to get a star two years ago and all they got was revenge two years later. So don't sign offer sheets. The flip side is we just saw one that actually worked for the first time and forever.

So I think we see them maybe more frequently, but maybe not for the superstars. Like maybe teams are realizing that if you go after a team's best player, they're going to match always. but if you go after a guy who's a little further down the deaf chart and it's too much money, you've got a chance to get him. Now, the downside is you get him for too much money, but you've got a chance to get them. I've heard this theory. And if you look back at the history of offer sheets, I think that's always, for the most part, been the case. Like when Ryan O'Reilly signed his offer sheet, well, one, he did it because of a contract dispute.

But I don't think he was like their top, top, tipy top player, Colorado. And then when Kessler signed his offer sheet, he was also a guy that was sort of a second-line guy on the rise. Or maybe even third-line guy on the rise. I think there's always been a thing of teams targeting those mid-tier players. I'm not necessarily buying the idea that it's new. Well, it's because you don't want to give up five first-round picks. Right, right. That's why.

Precisely. And the good news is that because of all the financial stuff that's gone on the NHL, the last few years. You know, you can get guys for like a first, the second, and a third without, like, guys who make a difference for a first, a second, and a third, and it didn't used to be that way. Right. You know? And I think also the flat cap makes it so that some teams are going to be like, you know what? Targeted.

Yeah, they're up against the cap. This guy is pretty good. He's not great. We can, I think this is. what I think is this, is the Carolina model of, we're going to overpay this guy for one year so that they can't match, or if they do, they're totally fucked and have to, like, do a cap dump where they're going to get worse, you know, um, versus like, we'll just give this guy six years at eight and a half million dollars or whatever the one right below five first round picks is.

Right. Right. Well, I guess the other thing about the Aho one was they were also assuming that Dundon wouldn't match. Right. He had some financial issues or he was being cheap. Anytime you can publicly tell a billionaire that they don't have as much money. That always goes for. They love it.

It's a fetish. Yeah, it's great. This guy started a professional football league just because he wanted to. Right. He's got the extra $20 million. or whatever in the couch cushions. I got to say, though, I am very interested to see, like, Dundon is such a weird guy as far as NHL owners go.

I don't know how hands-on he is typically with his team. It wouldn't shock me to find out that he's completely hands-off. It wouldn't shock me to find out he's extremely hands-on. I'm really interested to see how this goes. If Kockenemi starts slow or isn't getting ice time or is even getting scratched or something like that because this is, you know, there has not been, I can't think of many transactions that have had an owner's fingerprints on it as firmly as this one, certainly not for a guy, a middle of the lineup guy.

Let me give you some informed speculation. I think he's hands-on, but still not as hands-on as you might assume he is, if that makes sense. Right. So what happens when 30 games into the season, Kock Kenami is not all that productive? Brindamore is getting a little tired of them. The ice time's dropping and people start writing stuff about Dundon's Folly and the Carolina's owner got them into a bad contract and now it's blah, blah, blah.

Does he just kind of shrug that off or does he pick up the phone and call Rod Brindamore and say, we've got to get this kid going, move him up the line? I think he shrugs it off. Okay. It's a, I mean, that's why it's a one, like it's a one-year deal, right? Like they could in theory. Yeah, but if they walk away, then that's. That's a pretty embarrassing result, right?

For sure. A couple more things here. Pierre Dorian gets an extension. I would like to have been a fly on Pierre McGuire's wall when he heard that news. And apparently the Senator's rebuild is over. That's what we said. Oh, all right. I'll pull up the quote here because it's a wild quote.

Because he says the rebuild is done. and then and that's just like kind of in the post draft or the post-signing presser I believe and then he goes on the radio and says this the next step is for us to not take anything for granted

last year we felt we were a team that was hard to play against but now it's time to challenge to get two points every night and be in every game games that maybe you got a point last year you need two this year A lot of people say that, quote, when you look on paper, but the game's not played on paper, a great thing that you're always saying.

Any team can beat any other team, any night in the NHL for most nights. So for us, the goal is to surprise people. Compete every night like we did last year. Again, didn't really do that. A lot of younger players have reached a maturity stage in their career where they should be leading us and not be considered young players anymore. as a group, it's time to start winning. I've been mildly obsessed with Pierre Dorian for a really long time. He rocks.

I've chased that interview for a while. I've not gotten him. I don't think he's in some cases wanted to do it. But I find him to be so fucking fascinating because there is that kind of like, you know, kind of like selling the monorail aspects to his personality that I've always really admired. And sometimes it comes off as desperate. the we're a team thing. But other times, it's just fucking fantastic.

Like when he made the Alex Burroughs trade. Alex Burroughs trade is the classic. Right. And he was like talking about people coming up to him and hugging him in the hallway. We're hearing more and more. We're looking into it very strongly. Thank you, sir. They say, sir.

Thank you so much for Alex Burroughs, sir. There are tears in his eyes, these big strong hockey men. And they're crying. They're saying, sir, we never thought we would get Alex Burroughs, but you gave us Alex Burroughs. Yeah. Fucking so cool. He's got that aspect to him,

and it makes me really root for him to do well. Also, because the other fascinating part about Dorian is that he's not bad at his job necessarily. Like, how many trade deadlines, granted, it's the reality of his surroundings that he's been given. He's had to move these assets. But like, how many trade deadlines do we look at what he's done? We're like, wow, how would they pretty fucking good and selling off these pieces?

Well, the other thing is, You know, like they've got a lot of good players. They have a highly regarded farm system. But like also a lot of their picks individually, you're like, well, maybe a bit of a reach on this guy and that guy and this other guy. And it's like, yeah, collect. Like basically they didn't maximize their draft capital. And they just have, they've just because of, again, the nature. Right.

So they get the. They get the picks and prospects. They get the picks and prospects, but they don't really execute it very well. Yeah, that's... Yeah, and they've developed okay. Right. I think a full-scale, tear it down, strip it to the tires rebuild is, in one sense, the easiest thing for a GM to do. But I think Peridorian's done a good job of that relatively easy job.

And given that, you know, it's Ottawa and you have to be able to manage up and he seems to be able to handle that reasonably well. Yeah, I mean, you give him an extension and you see how he does it guiding it to the next step. I'm not as sold on Ottawa in terms of the future as a lot of people seem to be. I feel like a lot of these projections of them being a contender in a few years rely on like a dozen different young players. all, every single one. A dozen. All hit the ceiling.

And that never happens. But, you know, he's earned the right to take a shot at it. The interesting part of the story to me is the whole, the rebuild is over, quote, because that's the sort of thing that halfway into next season,

you could see getting retcon pretty hard. Well, it's already being retcon because it's like that, what that means when I wrote like, oh, the rebuild's over. That's, okay, all right. was like this this this this widespread thing that was communicated to me specifically by this like senators podcast that was like oh what he means is they're done stripping it down every year and it's like

well I mean that's only true because you have nobody left to trade right yeah do you think he's saying that also because he's in the midst of a contract negotiation with Brady Kachuk well he's got to kind of be put that messaging out that and that and in it addition to that, it's like, well, you just got like a four-year contract extension. So like, they're not paying you to keep tearing the team down at that point. Yeah. Right? You don't get a, you don't get a second five-year plan. Correct. Unless you're Jim Benning. Um, but so, so like, from, like, that's technically correct. But that second quote I read where he's like, it's, now is the time to start winning. It's like, have you seen this fucking team? I mean, on page.

You're already talking about on paper is not where the games are played and stuff like that. And I think the thing that really makes this a tough sell for me, apart from again, like just look at their fucking roster, is this was supposed to be the year, the first of the five years of unparalleled success where they almost fended the cap was 2021 to 2025. I looked at the fucking quotes from 2018 or 2019 or whatever it was. And it's like, yeah, we're going to start spending. to the cap in in 2021 and right now before Brady Kachuk is signed but even if they give Kachuk like $8 million they're they're on they're going to spend less on their roster this season than they did last year and that's with two guys who were bought out and just still on the books right speaking of Kach so he's still talking uh both the Quinn Hughes and Elias Pedersen

are still talking. And then obviously Krip-Kapri-Soff is still without a deal in Minnesota. Again, I've been away. I've really been monitoring this on a day-to-day basis. Where does all this stuff stand at this point? Great question. And Rasmisdalen, too, which you don't

hear very much about, which is kind of weird. I mean, obviously there's bigger issues in Buffalo, but there can't be that many that are that much bigger than getting your number one overall guys signed. So where is everything? Who's going to sign first? I think

it goes Hughes and Kachuk like right around the same time and then I think it was Elliot said yesterday that Patterson is going to be heavily dependent on what Caprizov does. Hmm, okay. And then

Dahlene, I mean, once you get Hughes signed, that probably tips over that domino so. Yeah, I mean, Hughes stands out as the one guy where you can't even pretend to use the offer sheet fake leverage play. Right.

That one probably gets done sooner. Okay. All right. You got to sign, if you're in Vancouver, you've got to sign quick before Benning gives like $5 million to another fourth liner. And then there goes your cap space. David Backus retires. I feel like that's a player whose latter years really tainted what was a pretty solid.

career as a two-way center. Yeah, middle-six guy. Yeah. And most, you know, go ahead. He got, he got the classic thing that a lot of guys do of like, well, I turn 29. I've been like a 50-point guy for a little while now. And some dumb-ass team was like, what if we get, what if we started paying you like you were a 70-point guy?

Right. You know, like, and that's, that's exactly what happened. and then everybody's like, fuck David Baccas, David Bacca sucks. And it's like, well, you know,

much like Ryan Kessler, by the way, his body just broke down. And could you have seen that coming, given his style and, and all that kind of stuff? You probably should have, you know,

but. Did he, was that, was that a, Don Sweeney signing? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

there was a little while there where Don Sweeney was like, I'm just going to make a lot, like, going to get every David Bacchus type for like a million dollars in two years more than I should have. Wow. Because I was he, was Matt Baleski a David Bacchus or a Don Sweeney signing? I think he might have been too, potentially.

So the two things I'll always remember about Bacchus are both tied to the Olympics. Yeah. Him collecting Canadian scalps and fights leading up to the Olympics. which was, was that, that had to be Sochi, right? Yeah, that sounds right. I don't think he, I don't think he was in Vancouver. Yeah, that sounds right. And then, and then when he got to Saucy,

rescuing all them dogs from, from Sochi. Remember that? I do. That was his big thing over there. Yeah. rescuing the dogs. So you go. David Back is fairly well in retirement.

All right. I think that, that ends the, the, the, 100% hockey portion of the show. although I will tell you that there is a game show coming up that incorporates it. Real quick. Shang Chi, you like it? Yeah, as Marvel movies go, like, it was a little boilerplate, but, like, fun and good performances, I thought. I thought really good performances. And, again, like, Marvel movies do this thing where they take the template and then just throw a bunch of other inspiration on it.

And in this case, the inspiration was, like, Stephen Chow movies and Jackie Jr. Chan movies and like, you know, Crouching Tiger. Yeah. And I'm here for that. Could have done without the Dragon Battle at the end. This is true. Incomprehensible. A little too CGI.

Yeah. But the rest of it was really good. I thought they, I thought one of the more entertaining ones. It kind of reminds me of how I felt about Coco and Pixar where you've seen the Pixar thing over and over and over and over again. And then you see Coco and you're like, I like this. Coco rocks. But I think it's one of those, I think, that's a movie that's really grown, I've grown more fond of in hindsight.

Because I realized how good it was. At the time, I don't know if I really appreciated it as much because it was just following in the tradition of what we had seen a lot of. And I feel like Shang Chi is going to be the same thing where I'm just going to look back on it and be like, wow, that was really, really well executed for something that's become a trope, you know, the origin story. Yeah, as with everything else, I'm never going to watch it again. You know, but I like it. I'd watch the bus fight again. That was fucking. Oh, you want to talk about CGI.

The CGI on that was iffy, let's say. Sean, I wanted to ask you something, because I know Lambert likes to avoid trailers. Sean, what did the Matrix mean to you? Were you a Matrix guy? No. No, I've told this story before. I saw the third one before I saw the first two and I had no idea what was going on. And I only got around to seeing the first one, like.

a couple years ago. All right. The trailer, did you watch the trailer Lambert or no? Of course not. Okay. I'm intrigued by it and I'm intrigued by it in the sense that like, the best thing I can say about the trailer is that I watched it and then immediately went to the Matrix Reddit

to see what people were pulling out of the trailer as far as references and leaks and stuff. And I think I've talked about this in the podcast before. The most fun I've had in recent memory in the lead-up to a movie, was reading the trailer dissection of Prometheus and all of the speculation and leaks about Prometheus. It ended up creating a movie in my mind that was exponentially better than what Prometheus ended up being. And I know that we are Prometheus apologists on this podcast.

I'm not, an apologist isn't even the right. It's the third best alien movie by a mile. All right, well, maybe I'm an Alien 3 apologist then. but the, or maybe just a Fincher fanboy. I could see the same thing happening with this Matrix movie before it comes out in December. I'm not going to say go down the rabbit hole because that's too on the nose. But really kind of like figuring out what the plot is before the movie happens and then ultimately being disappointed by it, I'm sure, when it finally comes out. But good trailer.

Got me excited. I will say that so like I saw people talking about apparently. Morpheus is de-aged in it? Yeah, Yaya Mateen, Abdul Matine, the guy who played... He's in Candyman. He's in Candyman, and he played Black Manta in Aquaman. Okay. He plays what appears to be a young Morpheus.

Oh, okay. All right. Well, anyway, so the speculation is that this is because in the in the Matrix MMO game, Morpheus dies. And so they're treating the Matrix MMO game as canon. And to which I say, that's the fucking coolest thing I've ever heard.

They're like, this one of a character died in a video game. You did not play. There will be no further explanation. I watched the clip of him dying. I had never seen it before. What generation console graphics would you say best resembles? that, like an N64, a PlayStation 1?

I'm going to say probably two is when, PlayStation 2 is when the Matrix MMO came out. So they tried to re-cuit, like, the graphics are like everybody's just kind of rectangular. Yeah. Released May March 2005. Right. So if you squint hard enough, they kind of look like the characters, but ultimately they just, it's kind of like playing Minecraft now. Right. the best proxy

So that's the very end of the PlayStation 2 era Because PlayStation 3 comes out 06 Like end of 06 So yeah And again like I think that's really cool I think that the Wukowski's are just like Yeah if you didn't play the video game You're not going to get this shit

Like that's fucking wrong That's canon Um All right And did we talk about Well we I know you and I think talked about Ryan's TM Punk coming back. Did you guys talk about Daniel Bryan coming back or Brian Daniels?

No, that happened Sunday. We didn't do it shows. Oh, that's right. Sean, are you excited at all about the AAW return of all these beloved W.E wrestlers? I think it's neat and I've seen a couple of the clips of guys coming back and then getting big reactions, which is always cool. I'm not going to start watching A.A.W. or anything like that.

But it's neat. I'm glad people are excited. Ford. It's good. I said the same thing. Yes. And then a friend of mine was like, do you want to go to this movie theater in Western Massachusetts? Like drive an hour and a half to watch all out in a movie theater? And I was like, I 100% want to do that. And now I'm all the way back in. I was unable to go to a movie theater for that that night. I was thinking about doing it. There

was one in Jersey that was doing it. But I went to the U.S. Open. last night, one of my favorite events. And I have tickets for the AEW show at Arthur Ash. One of those, for me, possibly? No. I don't know. I'll have to talk to my friend Chris to see if he has an extra or not. But if he does, then you'll hop in your car and come down.

Oh, I didn't. If you had gotten, yeah, I would fucking 100% go to that. Awesome. Well, the thing is, is I had tickets to their show at Prudential Center, but it's happening the Wednesday that I'm in Chicago for the, NHL Media Tour. Oh. And so I had to sell my tickets and I put them on a ticket resale site and I've sold two so far.

I have four. I sold two so far. So they're moving quickly. Unfortunately, the NHL Media Tour also meant I couldn't go to a Mets Phillies game. And I also put those tickets on the re-sale site. And let me tell you, friends, not a lot of action. Not a lot of interest for Mets tickets. Yeah.

Even at one third the price of what I paid for them. Yeah. I tried to get, I found out recently that they're doing a dynamite at BU's hockey arena in Boston. And I was like, oh, can I go to that? And they were like, no, tickets sold out in like eight minutes. You've got to be fucking kidding me. It's a pretty hot property right now, as evidenced by somebody buying my dynamite tickets at 4.11 in the morning the night after the most recent dynamite. Yeah, we're going, like I said, I'm going full sicko mode on AEW now.

Let's go. It's so good. In the words of John McLean, welcome to the party, pal. Yeah. All right. Game show time. I've created a game show for both of you called I Want My NHL. As you guys obviously know, the VMAs are this weekend.

Very big event. I know you guys are excited to watch 21 pilots and Olivia Rodriguez this weekend. I've created a this or that game show. We're going to give you two things, and you tell me. which one is the greater number. What is the higher number of the two? Okay. One thing is going to be the amount of VMA wins for a music act.

So this is like any VMA, not like Video Vanguard Award, like career achievement, just like the actual like categories from the Video Music Awards. Or a National Hockey League Stanley Cup playoffs statistic. Tell me what is the greater number of the two. You follow? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Who won the last game show? Who goes first? This is information I don't have. Yeah, no idea. Wait, did you guys do a game show on the last bonus? Oh, actually, we did. Ryan won. Ryan won the name Pat Falloon. So. Okay. Ryan, kick or receive?

I will kick Okay Sean Ryan has apparently identified you as someone who doesn't watch the VMAs That makes two of us buddy All right

Here we go What is the Larger number Sean Is it Green Day Video Music Award wins Or Mike Green

Playoff goals Boy, those capital teams didn't play as many playoff games as they should have. But Green Day doesn't strike me as like a huge VMA ban. I'll say Mike Green. The answer is Green Day VMA wins with 11. Mike Green playoff goals 10. Very close. You have to remember that Green Day, you know, had their share of big videos.

I was going to say, like, Duky and American Idiot alone probably gets them to to where they need to be, right? So of their wins, let me see here, I had this open before and then I closed it and I'll go back to it now. We had Green Day. Yeah, you had your

Goodridden's time of your life. Oh, yes, of course, and Nimrod. Boulevard of Broken Dreams had six wins. Yeah. So. Nothing for the, what's the one? basket case? Because that was, I remember that being a huge video, circa 1990.

I think that was probably in there too. Yeah. American Idiot. Yeah. Okay. Moving on, Ryan, what's the larger total? Katie Perry VMA wins or Corey Perry 2020 playoffs? Corrie Perry. The answer we're looking for was Katie Perry. Katie Perry has five VMA wins. Seems kind of low for like Katie Perry. I just figured they just don't do that many videos. And she hasn't been around long enough, you know. I think it's a fair point. Corey Perry had four playoff goals.

Why the fuck did I think 58-year-old Corey Perry? Oh, it's stupid. Sean? Yes. What's the larger total? Missy Elliott VMA wins or Brian Elliott playoff wins? I'm just like, how? many NHL players could have the same name.

Oh, okay. Missy Elliott. Missy Elliott has six VMA wins. Brian Elliott has 17 playoff wins. Put some respect. My goodness. Put some respect on. Yeah, wasn't he the goalie in Ottawa when they went,

we were a goal away from the Stanley Cup final. No, that was Anderson. Oh, that was Anderson, wasn't it? He did. He was in Ottawa for a while, but I feel like Brian Elliott has 17 wins. and like never more than two in a season. Yeah. Let's see here.

Brian Elliott. I, because now I got a note. Now I'm, now I'm deeply interested. Now you're invested. Yeah. Okay,

I knew he had one deep playoff run and it was with St. Louis in 1516. He started 18 games, went 9 and 9. But, yeah. Wow. Okay.

There you have it. I'm 21 that year. Wow. Good for him. Okay. So is Ryan now? That's me. We're deadlocked at zero zero.

Sounds about right. Ryan, what's the larger total? Herbie Hancock VMA wins or Grant Clitzen playoff appearances? All right, Greg. Settle down. I just was wondering I just was wondering which was hot with the larger number

Well because we all know Herbie Hancock loves to lie I will go with Grant Clitzen The answer We were looking for was Herby Hancock

VMA wins He won five VMAs for One song for Rocket Back in the day I regret to inform you that Grant Clitson has never appeared in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Wow. Well, I guess he did play for Columbus, so that checks out. Has he not or wasn't there and you just couldn't find him?

All right. You calm down. Keep it moving. All right. This one really doesn't have a theme, but I thought it was interesting. Sean, Ricky Martin VMA wins or Matthew Kachuk playoff goals? Boy. Ricky Martin, I don't feel like that was the,

There was a long window there, but I was going to say, like, that he, that was like, his song was like, I feel like 99, 2000. There was a lot of good stuff then, but I, I'll tell you, it was 99. That was very good, Sean. So, so I was going to say that song probably won all the VMAs that year, but then I remembered 99 was the last good year. And like all the great pop culture that came out then. Like, I feel like was he beaten out Britney Spears? I know. Yeah. That's exactly.

I'll go Ricky Martin. Ricky Martin had five VMA wins all for Live and LaVita Loca. Matthew Kuchuk has three playoff goals. You're correct, Sean. Oh, good. Is that the first one we got right? I think it is, yeah. It is.

Pre-season action here. This worked out great because this is one of Ryan's favorite players. Ryan, what's the larger total? Beyonce's VMA wins or Braden Holpies playoff wins? I gotta go with Beyonce, right? Like, she has to have a billion of them.

Let's like he does a lot of music videos. I'll say this about Beyonce. According to this Wikipedia that I'm looking at, no one has won more VMAs than Beyonce. Well, that's all. I must be wrong, then. It includes two with Destiny's Child and two with the Carter. She has 28.

But Braden Holby has 50 playoff wins. Wow. The answer was Braden Holby? Okay, fair enough. Okay. Sean? Greg.

This is for the win, I think, isn't it? Justin Timberlake VMA wins or Justin Ablacator playoff goals? With larger total. Uh, man. I... It feels like Justin Timberlake's probably got a million. So I'll go with him.

Justin Simberlake has 11 VMA wins for videos such as... Sexy Back. Cry me a River. Actually, wait. I should tell you that it's actually just 10 because I'm not counting the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award, which also means that Beyonce only had 27. Not counting the video Vanguard Award. She changes everything.

I know. He had Cry Me a River, rock your body, what goes around, comes around suit and tie. Justin Appalcator had six playoff goals. That is correct, Sean. Wow. Justin Timberlake over Justin Applicator. So you win the game.

Let's play it out, though. Ryan, what is the larger total? U2 VMA wins or Jordan 2-2 playoff points? Oh, you two by a lot, right? You two has six VMA wins. With or without you when love comes to town, even better than the real thing got two. Hold me, thrill me, kiss me, kill me one.

Oh, five, actually, because of the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award. Jordan Tutu, 10 career playoff wins. So Tutu over you two. Finally, the tiebreaker, closest to the total. You can go over. How many VMAs has Michael Jackson won? Or did win? Because he's not with us anymore.

It feels like he has another win in him. least, right? What's your guess, Ryan? How many VMAs does he have? Not counting the Video Vanguard Award, which is now named after you. 40. Yeah, I mean, you said Beyonce was number one with like 27. Oh, shit.

Good context clue there. Does, does, do the VMAs go back to like the thriller days? So I should tell you that the first VMAs on record was 1984. Okay, so, yeah, so 25, I'll say, because he must have won. Well, you know, I bet you back then they probably didn't even have that. It was probably like best video and then everyone went home. But yeah, I'm still going to say definitely the number starts with it too. Well, I mean, you could have said 39 and you'd still be right.

The answer is actually eight, seven. Wow. Because you're right. Back in the day, I don't think they did a bunch of technical awards. It's like Thriller 1-3. Yeah. And then he won one for Leave Me Alone, and he won three for Scream, the one he did with Janet Jackson. So it's just seven.

Really? Yeah. So no black or white? Like, that feels like a... Kind of wild, right? Yeah. That was like he... Janet has more VMAs. I get that like Billy Jean and beat it would have been 83, but...

Mm-hmm. You know who has more VMAs than Michael Jackson? Aerosmith. Well, I mean, you look at, you look at the... That doesn't surprise me. The contribution thing. same video three years in a row. Yeah.

They made the same exact video three songs in a row for the same song and got like number one hits out of all of them. Yeah. I'm not surprised at that at all. Crazy amazing, crazy amazing crying. Crazy amazing cry.

The Adam Sandler doing that on Saturday Night Live is one of the greatest bits of like just ruining an entire pop culture thing in one bit. It was fantastic. How many did they win for the freaking Armageddon's song? One.

That's it? Wow. That was everywhere. That was a monster hit. Their biggest VMA winner was Cryin with three. Wow. Which makes sense because that was the Alicia Silverstone one, right? They were all Alicia Silverstone.

But yeah, with that and his daughter, right? Yeah. Liv Tyler before she had animal crackers on her tummy in Armaged. All right, well, very good. Always, always happy to connect Puck Soup with the youth culture. I'm sure everybody that listens to Puck Soup will also be watching the VMAs this weekend. Yeah, there's a lot of crossover in that audience, so. Huge crossover.

By the way, just to let you know, MTV, so back in, okay, 2011, 12.4 million people watch the VMAs in 2011. That's a lot. In 2020, 1.32 million. Yeah. So I would say that maybe... Christ, Dynamite does better than that these days. It does.

Beat it in the fucking 18 to 32 demo. Well, I mean, VMAs don't have the demo. God. They don't have the demo God. That's exactly right. All right. And by the way, I've looked, I don't believe Judas by Fazi

was nominated for any VMAs this year unfortunately. So. That sucks. Yeah, tough one for Chris Jericho. All right. Thanks everybody for listening to Buck Soup. Head over to the Patreon for your mailbag episode for the week. We'll also, did you boys say

we're doing a call-in show this month? That's a good idea. We have to do one next week, yeah. Oh, okay. So that's going to be on the Puck Soup Discord. Yes, and then we'll coordinate all that jive and figure out when we're doing it. All right, very good. Thanks to Draft Kings and Manly Bands for making the show possible. Anything to plug, boys?

Yeah, check out E.P.Rinkside.com. Sign up with the offer code I Love E.P. subscription annual only, and you get an extra three months tacked on to the end of that 12 months. So 15 total months. Wow, what a bargain, I would say. Oh, wow. Okay. Sean? No. Okay. All right. I'm going to be in Chicago next week for the NHMedia days and also for the big old the big old

ESPN talent conference. Greg Woshensky is all elite. That's right. We get to all, we get to meet each other for the first time and really looking forward to getting some time with

Mark Messier to talk through my feelings. Boy, if that's not a podcast episode. Mark, you don't know how you personally betrayed me, right? He's like, who are you? Mark, Mark's, therapist said that never happened.

Do you agree? Okay. Thanks everybody for listening. We will talk to you soon. Bye. See you. Bye. Bye.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tools. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nancet. Bork, Sue.