Puck Soup - Goalie Soap Operas

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

The boys check in on the Stanley Cup Playoffs, including goalie controversies and Game 7 drama; the Panthers get a new GM while the Coyotes need one; Steve Nash and exceptional Canadian pro athletes; trading Patrik Laine; Todd Reirden goes home, the NHL joins racial injustice protests; what the Hockey Diversity Alliance wants; plus a fun dive into the "dead letters" mailbag on everything from worst jerseys to the perfect burger. Sponsored by Mack Weldon!

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. Vote two. I'm Greg Wischenski of ESPN, the worldwide leader in officiating controversies. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic. And you're in Puck Soup, the NBA going off the rails last night with the officiating.

But honestly, a good segue to kick off the show. By the way, no Ryan this week. He's on vacation, he quit. He quit. He quit after what happened on the Patreon episode. No, he's... First of all, why would he? He apparently has the second best team, which I don't fucking understand.

Apparently nobody believes that you need a blue line in this league to win anymore, despite the presence of Victor Hedbin and Chey Theodore. and Miro Heiskenen in the final four. But he finished second in the hockey chopped episode. And once again, when it comes to building teams, somebody on this very podcast seems to be in line to become the next general manager of the Arizona Coyotes because Sean wins every fucking time we do one of these episodes.

I mean, I feel like saying that I won is underselling it. there were 663 votes cast and I had 490 Ryan had 115 and you had the rest right because I predicted this when we did the show like one I believe you are the most popular post that the best team is going to win that

no no I mean listen your team is great You did really well. But there were three reasons why you won that episode. One, because you were the most well-liked host of the show. I think that's pretty apparent. Two, you drafted the most famous players. And so, you know, while the construction of my team was meticulous, it certainly doesn't have it. You had Pasternak and Bergeron, right?

And Barcoff, was it? Yes. That's crazy. And then three, I correctly predicted that, you'd win because people were going to give you their vote for the absolute fucking assassin-like savagery that you showed on that on that bonus episode of cock-blocking Lambert from drafting that Barzell by sticking him with a rookie goalie contract. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, it was incredible. It was an incredible moment. Episodes available on the Patreon if you want to

listen to it. It was one of our most ingenious and best bonus episodes, that's for sure. no Ryan Ryan says he's on vacation which I believe is code for it for he was on that plane of Antifa thugs that Trump was talking about the other day so yeah you know good luck with that yeah Antifa plane the little scene sequel to Soul plane but as as this episode of soup biscuits begins we will begin with what we normally begin with which is breaking news out of the National Basketball Association, Sean, Steve Nash is now the head coach of

my Brooklyn Nets. Yeah. How about that? That's interesting. I'm excited. We're going to miss Ryan on this segment because Ryan's usually like my basketball translator. I'm not an NBA guy.

But am I wrong? Like, has Steve Nash coached anywhere? I don't believe so. Okay. Here's what I know about Steve Nash. Uh, Hall of Famer. Okay. Canadian, okay, may actually be the doppelganger of J.E. Skeets, our good friend from the Yahoo

days. They look the same. They might be the same person. Floppy hair, always had the floppy hair. That was always a thing. Like, he had that sort of silken floppy hair that skater boys have is what he had. And, you know, he's the coach of the team now. And so here's the reason I wanted to bring it up. in the pantheon of Canadian athletes playing for American teams in American leagues is he

above Larry Walker or is he like what's the pecking order in the pantheon of that type of athlete that played in like MLB NBA or the NFL if there had been any we don't really have a tough like NFL there have been a few guys

that had like Canadian connections. Right. I feel like Mark Rippin was like, but it always ends up being like they, they moved to Montreal for a year in like middle school. And then, uh, I think it's, I think, I would say mostly the NFL is like they had CFL ties at one point, like Warren or that. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like, you know, Doug Flutie, Jeff Garcia, those guys are like honorary Canadians, but not actual Canadian. It's, it's, I mean, it would mainly be baseball. Basketball, like, it's kind of like right now you're seeing the wave.

Like, Steve Nash was, I don't want to say the first, because again, I don't really follow basketball and someone's going to, like, correct me. The first, like, superstar, probably. He was the first guy winning, like, MVP awards and stuff like that. And baseball, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, Larry Walker, but he, he played half his career in Montreal. So Montreal, right, you do get that. It's, it's Ferguson Jenkins would be a big one. Right. And, uh, um, um, um,

There's Joey Votto now Who's there and there have been a few guys But yeah, I would say it's Nash Jenkins I don't know yeah I don't know if you put Larry Walker on there Just because he played Canadian But he's definitely in terms of like on Non-Hockey sports Walker's on the

The Pantheon There were a number of Expos and Blue Jays Who I just assume probably were Canadian when I was a kid. Like, there's no reason why Kelly, yeah, there's no reason why Kelly Gruber shouldn't have been Canadian. Like that's a Canadian-ass name. Yeah, but then.

He seemed Canadian. No, but then he opened his mouth and talked for three seconds, and it was, he was very not Canadian. That, dude. He was a Southern dude, for sure. Let me continue my list of Canadian baseball players that I thought should be Canadian. Dave Steeb. Dave Stebe sounded very Canadian to me.

Yep. No reason why. why he shouldn't have been. Hubey Brooks. Hubey was not a name that you normally would find in the United States. Always assumed that he was Canadian. Okay. Pascal Perez.

I mean, I don't know how that would have worked, but I always assumed that he was probably Canadian. Maybe because of, like, Pascal being very sort of French adjacent. These were all people that I really thought were Canadian. Delano de Shields. Probably Canadian in my mind. Probably. But he wasn't.

No. Yeah. Not at all. The only Canadians that, like, played in Canada was like Larry Walker. Rob Ducey and like one of the Butler brothers like the little five foot three outfielder dude and I think that

Brent Smith Master of the Palm Ball always assumed he was Canadian because he had a big Yukon Jack kind of beard when he played for the Expos. Yeah, I can buy that. So I'm excited. This is an important connection between me and your country is to have Steve Nash

coaching the Nets. So that's three months. Also should. Well, it's good because I'm always hearing about how comprehensive complicated and strategic basketball is and how I just don't understand it. And it's good to know that you need exactly zero experience coaching it to just step into an NBA job. That's, like, what's the hockey equivalent of this? Like, what would, hmm, because nationally, did he ever play for the Nets?

No. Yeah, okay. No, he didn't. So would it be Gretzky? But I mean, that was sort of different because he was like an owner of the coyotes. Yeah, that was, yeah, Gretzky, I guess was, would be the equivalent. because Patrick Waugh had coached in junior and other guys who stepped into coaching did get in there. This would be more like the, you know, some forgive me, struggle. This would be like the Sabres hiring. Well, here's one. Peter Forsberg to be the coach at a nowhere. And you're just like, oh, all right.

This guy wasn't like, I don't think on a Steve Nash level, obviously, because he wasn't a Hall of Famer. but Eddie Olcheck becoming a coach in Pittsburgh. Yeah. But he played there too. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't think there's a hockey proxy. I will say this finally about Steve Nash. First coach in Nett's history to have been name checked in Nellie Furtado's song, promiscuous,

which I think is also a very impressive feat. I need to fact check that. I'm not sure. No, I mean, like, well, I could tell you that he was, but I don't know. I mean, it's possible that like, you know, at some point, another Nets coach had been, I guess, right? Chuck Daly was maybe name-checked in, you know, one of those Nellifertado's songs.

Probably was. All right, back on hockey, because that's what you came here for, I assume. Playoffs are ongoing. As per usual, by the time you hear this podcast, shit will have happened and everything we said is invalid. Although probably not at the level of last week when we lamb-baseded the entirety of the an HLPA for their inaction on racial injustice, and then the next day, they canceled two days of games.

Right. We'll get to that later. Columbus and, Columbus, thank you. Colorado and Dallas, I put a COL. I'm like fucking Friedman over here with the,

thinking it's a bad abbreviation. Colorado and Dallas played their game last night. It's going to go seven. Dallas is blowing this thing. It's looking very much. much like last season, they lose game six, and then game seven and double overtime to St. Louis last year. They lose game six this year.

Same score, by the way. That's creepy four to one. And now we go to a game seven. This is a really tough one because I think as this goes, and if Dallas does lose, the Ben Bishop situation is going to be one of those hockey lore moments of the decision to play him. It's going to feel a lot like the Grady Little doesn't take Pedro out of the game moment, where it's not, you know, it didn't decide the whole game, but yeah, it's, it's going to start to feel like that. There's something to be said carmically about what they did, and that's the same vibe, right?

Like, it's not, it's not, it's not the thread that unraveled the sweater necessarily, but it's definitely something that changed the course of the series. And you could look back at that game and say, like, one out of the four goals he gave up in like, you know, 16 some odd minutes where the fuck it was. was definitely his fault. And the rest of it was just Dallas playing horribly in front of him. But, you know, I mean, it's those moments that change the series. And similar in a way to the paper thing in that it was a case of a coach or manager trusting his guy, right? Like when a guy says, you know, I can go. Let me put me in, leave me out here.

I'm not giving you the ball. Like, it's, you know, it's, it's the boss's job to make the tough call. But at the same time, I mean, we got like whole sports movies based on this idea that when the star says, I can do this, you back off and you let them do it. And, and when it works, they write screenplays about it. And when it doesn't work, you get this. And it's, right. And let's, and let's be clear. Like, if people don't, haven't followed it or if there, you're, you know, you.

you know, it's, it's not that, you know, they didn't make a goaltending change. They didn't, you know, pull Hobin out and say, like, it was a situation where they needed to use a different goaltender, apparently. Apparently, just going back to back was not an option. Well, and that's because, that's because, as Rick Bonas has said many times, Sean, they have the information that we do not have. Sure. And that is why they've made this decision. Yeah. So, and that information just might be Anton Houdobin saying, I'm not, I'm not good back to back.

Like, I really don't. Right. And this is, again, like, this has been kind of a running theme in the playoffs with goalies getting hurt or coming out. And do you have a backup and how good is your backup? And there is, this is one of those areas where there is a difference between being a really good backup and being the guy, which is when you're a backup, you never have to play back to back games. And so apparently Houdobin was not an option for that game. So now you're going, who am I starting?

Do I start this kid with Jake Godinger that has never played? 21-year-old. Yeah, 21 never played. You know, most fans have barely heard of. Or do I go back to Ben Bishop, who I'm told is ready to go, you know, yeah, he's going to be rusty. Yeah, there's risk. With the guy, he's probably not anywhere near 100%, but he says he's ready to go. His coach says he's ready to go.

Do I put him in there and have the big dramatic moment? And I don't think it was some sort of crazy indefensible decision to put him in there. I say that not knowing what it is that he's dealing with. And the fact that he was then immediately unavailable for the next game makes you wonder. like if he's if he is dealing with something that either got reagravated or that you know could there's there's certain injuries that you can just play through them and there might be a pain or discomfort factor but it's not going to affect your performance and there's other injuries that absolutely will and and goal technique i mean if you're a tenth of a second late

pushing across that that can be the difference between a stop and a goal so uh this is we need To know more, and it'll mean, this being the NHL, we won't know it until Dallas is out. But it's a fascinating story. And fair or not, it's the one that we're going to point to if Dallas loses. If they come back and win game seven, then, you know, we roll on and it's one of those footnote things. Yeah, and that's, you know, the injury part of this is the thing that's a tough one, right? Like, first of all, we don't know what it is because all these coaches are now playing grab ass with their goaltending situations and their injury status at this point in the playoffs.

The last week has sort of been the thing that we all feared was going to happen with the unfit to play thing, which is, you know, obviously something they had to do because at the time we were thinking there was going to be like, you know, 10 COVID cases on every team. But now it's just become a situation where even guys that are getting injured in games are being called just unfit to play rather than there being any specificity about the injury. Right. So the real conundrum here isn't. hey, we started a guy that hadn't played since August 13th and he got bombed.

I mean, that might happen. It's just hockey. The team in front of him played like shit. It's that now he's probably unavailable for the rest of the series. And that's the part that's just like, ooh, what happened here? Why did that, why did that occur? Because clearly, like, either he let on that he was healthier than he was or he re-agovated or something. Who the fuck knows?

But, like, the fact that he came in, got shall act, and then doesn't have a, like, the perfect time to start him would have been this game. That just was last game six, right? To bring him back and redemption and your team play really shitty in front of you and now they're going to play for the guy kind of kind of thing. But he couldn't go because he was hurt. And that's the part that's really tough to sort of swallow in the situation. So that's what we need to know is what is the injury and what was it that went on around it? Because you're right. He probably if he, I mean, he, he's not 100%. There's nobody's 100% a month in the playoffs. but he was clearly not even close to that.

But did he tell the coaches that he could go? Yeah, he probably did. He's a hockey player. That's what they do. You can't love Patrice Bergeron for going out there with a hole in his lung and then also sit there and be cranky when Ben Bishop or whoever says they're good to go when they're not. I mean, this is why it bugs me a little bit sometimes when you hear coaches say, like, well, you know, they're going to tell me.

the player's going to tell me if he's good to go. It's like, yeah, well, the player's always going to tell you that he's good. And the few players that don't say that look after themselves and say, I'm not ready, we've seen coaches get up there and kind of roll their eyes and be like, well, I thought he was ready, but apparently he's not. So it's a tough situation. But yeah, if it's a case where, you know, was he almost there and they just rushed it back a little bit and that caused a re-injury, okay, you know, that's maybe one thing.

Or maybe he's just dealing with something where it's like, hey, I'm available when you need me and I'm not going to be at 100% but I can go, I can play and there's something to be said for I always look at this stuff and go like okay if the opposite decision had been made what would we be saying? And if Rick Bonas had put a 21 year old

in there and the 21 year old got shelled we would all be sitting there going what's wrong with Ben Bishie? You tell me you couldn't use him at all like he can't. You know, we're knocking him, we're knocking bonus. I don't know. It's just one of those things where if there's a goaltending decision to be made and the other team is really good, like the avalanche are,

and then you're going to be set up to be in a bad situation. And maybe that's what we should be talking about more, is the Colorado avalanche do not look. Yeah, this is, you know, you talk about letting someone off the ropes or off the mat. This is starting to feel that way. obviously they've got the injuries. We don't know as we're recording this exactly what the situation with Gabriel Landisgag is. But, you know, there was some talk earlier this week about some of the numbers as far as teams facing elimination,

having a very poor winning percentage in this tournament and the suggestion that maybe knowing that you get out of the bubble and you get to go home might tip some teams just a little bit. Colorado does not look like they want to go home. Colorado looks like a team that knows they got a real clear shot at the Stanley Cup and they kind of looked at each other and went like, we're not blowing this. We're not doing it. I'm sort of fascinated by that theory. So I don't necessarily think it applies when you're in the semifinals, right?

Because, I mean, like you're pretty damn close to potentially winning the Cup, right? And so if you're down 3-1 in a series, you've come this far, you're going to keep on fighting. And we've only seen one team not. force a game six and it was Boston and it was not for a lack of trying. I mean, the game went to overtime. Yeah, and there have been a few of those. Like a few teams have been eliminated in overtime. It's not like, right.

The only team that I would point to and say, like, it looks like they really folded was, was the coyotes against. Well, I mean, in the playoff rounds, because you, I mean, Jim Rutherford's on record saying, well, maybe they didn't want to be in the bubble kind of thing. So, like, Pittsburgh's on that list. St. Louis, I mean, maybe they're on that list. I mean, it clearly didn't come together, and Bittington was shit. And I'm not saying that they didn't try.

I mean, they came, they fucking marauded back in that series for two games when O'Reilly went off. But the totality of that team was clearly maybe their heads weren't really into it. And, you know, clearly, as Doug Armstrong said, it was a fucking COVID-riddled roster, too. I think there's something to the theory that some of these. teams when they started staring into the abyss just wanted to kind of go home. But I also think there's a flip side of that theory that really hasn't gotten much attention, which is the brevity of some of these series that some of these good teams have won could be one of these deals with like, we just want to get the fuck out of here with the cup.

We just want to win every series in like five games. We'll go as quick as we can. If the other series is quick, that's awesome too, that we can get going. real early. We just want to get our shit done, get our spots in, go win the cup, get the fuck out of here. That's my, that's my competing theory to the, we just want to go home and see our families and we'll lose theory. Yeah. See, I don't know, because when it's the early rounds, it's like normally, you're like, we want to finish it early, get some rest, and but right now it's like, oh, so we just get like six days off to play ping pong.

Squash courts. Yeah. But, you know, what's going to be interesting and they're still working on this is when or if they bring the families in for the conference final. And there's still talk around what that is actually going to look like. Because, yeah, I can imagine if you're in the conference final and you got a chance to finish a team and you know that like, yeah, you might be looking at a week off, hanging out with your kids. And like that could really be a reason to rally around and be like, all right, let's do this. But at the same time, maybe that lowers the.

the temptation for the other team to pull the shoot. But I don't think teams have been. Like the winning percentage was interesting to me, but I don't think, I don't think I don't think anyone was going out there like, guys, screw it. Let's just, let's just go lose tonight and get out of here. But, you know, it's hockey. There's, it's hockey. It's the parody world.

Like, even that a 2% drop in your will can potentially have an impact. So it's interesting to me. But, like, there was a piece on the athletic where it was like the winning percentage was under 300. And I think teams are 3 and 0 since then. So it's... Yeah, right. So you can't jump to too many conclusions on this shit. But it is, it is pretty interesting.

Which is a good lesson. Always get that article out early. If you have it, like, don't save it for later in the week because that's the hockey guns will always get you on it. Not to pull the curtain too far back, but I wrote about officiating again today, specifically like the, the incredible numbers on Holmeiss advantage or lack thereof for the officiating as like the numbers for how many penalties a road team gets in a traditional playoff when fans are in the building

versus what they're getting this season is fucking astonishing but my point is that I went back and looked at the piece I wrote like earlier like early August about playoff officiating and it was like based on the first three games which I mean there are definitely trends in the first three games But I look back at it, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Using a three-game sample that jumped to conclusions about officiating. But it was a good story.

What are you going to do? You got people talking about it from the league. And if people in the interviews are talking about it, all you can do is kind of follow their quotes occasionally and just write the piece. But yeah, three games is what I was like freaking out about. It hasn't really gotten that much better, to be honest with you. But it's gotten a little bit better. Two players I want to talk about real quick on the series, McKinnon is just next level. Like, fucking just insane.

Like now he's just throwing Alleyut passes to Miko Ranton in front of the net. Like, setting records left and right. I think he's the best player in the world. And he's sort of just doing that thing where you will a team to victory. It's just fucking incredible hockey at a McKinnon in the series. Yeah, he's been fantastic and he's, you know, it's interesting. There's, we're also, we know now that, you know, when players peak and especially forwards. And, you know, it's, you know, McKinnon is, he's, he's younger than you think. He's

only 25. And I think like just turn 25. So, you know, he's still a young guy, but he's already at that stage where, you know, we should have already seen his peak according to what the numbers tell us. And he's, what he's doing now is a good case study in, you know what, maybe the speed peaks and the skill and the hands and all of that peaks early. But sometimes there's a few last little pieces that have to click in and you just wonder if you're seeing that with him. And I'm not trying to, I don't want to invent the narrative here because, I mean, the avalanche worked bad for years.

So, you know, was that Nathan McKinnon? Not, you know, or is it just that he didn't have enough around him. But, yeah, he is doing the get on my back sort of thing right now. And it's, I mean, that. That passing, the one-timer last night was insane. Like, I had to watch that three times, just how perfect it was. Like, there was, that was unbelievable. Yeah, he's the guy right now, and this is, and it's one of the fun things about the playoffs,

is who's going to have the big coming out party? And it's not like Nathan McKinnon with some undiscovered star. Like, we all knew this guy was really, really good, you know, near, nearly won a heart trophy a couple years ago. But this is next level. And, man, the avalanche looks so good right now. But again, I've watched enough playoff hockey to know that we're all shifting over to the avalanche side of the bandwagon right now.

It's like watching a big game of fall guys and everyone's going over to one side. And there's like the one or two guys going the other way and you're just like, you don't know what you're doing. and boy, you could just see game seven going in a different way. But this is great. I'm just glad we have a game seven finally in this playoffs. So thank you. What makes it fun is it's two teams that don't know how to win a game seven that are now playing in a game seven.

Which is like fascinating. And so to me the big, the two real interesting things on the Dallas side are like one, the acquisition of Pavelski and Corey Perry was for a game seven. so let's see what this looks like. And two, like, there's been a lot of top line players that have gotten criticism in these playoffs.

The Flyers who we're going to talk about in a bit are one of them. Fucking Tyler Sagan made $13.5 million in salary this season and doesn't have a point in his last three games in the series. I mean, you can't put it all on one guy. There's other guys in that line. But it just seems like this is kind of the conversation. about Sagan more often than not in these situations. And it's kind of becoming a thing.

And Rick Bonas has even sort of pointed this out. And it's, yeah, it's, I mean, Sagan was good last year. Mm-hmm. He was. And, you know, this is one of those things where it kind of... You want to, it's, it could be a bubble thing, like for all we know. We can't judge it too harshly because all these guys are going to act accordingly

inside the bubble, but absence is conspicuous in these last three games of the series. But again, that's why you play Game 7. There was always a chance for redemption. All right, let's touch on these other series. Vancouver and the Golden Knights,

the Canucks continue their hockey bar mitzvah. They're pressing on. They're playing in a night as we do the podcast. I would be surprised if there was a Game 7 here. But the interesting thing from this series, obviously, is what Thatcher Demko did in game five. And, you know, you don't read too much into one start, obviously.

But it's kind of amazing how quickly the conversation pivoted to, well, maybe we don't have to give Jacob Orkstrom all that money. Yep. In like the span of one day. It really was. Like, that is a, I know there was a clip of like Markstrom greeting him when he was coming off the ice and congratulating him. Yeah, you've got to wonder if he's sitting there going like, oh, that cost me a lot of money. Thanks, kid. Yeah, right?

Or years. I mean, like one of the two. It's without question, like a reframing of that situation. But the situation, I mean, if nothing else, it's probably just a reexamination, right? Like, if you look at it critically, you've been sort of bringing Dempco along for a few years. Like, he's clearly sort of your goalie of the future. And you have to pay Hughes and you have to pay Patterson after next season. Like, it deserved probably more scrutiny than it was.

getting then sort of the default, well, obviously you pay Markstrom the money based on how he's played in the first couple rounds of these playoffs. So maybe it was just like a, I don't know, like a moment of, of reflection. Yeah. More than anything else. Or at the very least, it has to make you sit there and go, okay, if we give Markstrom five years at full-time starter money, what do we do with Demko? And, you know, like Thatcher Demko has been a prospect for years. I've written about this a little bit like this is how it goes with goalies now, right? Like they get drafted and you go, oh, we got a great goaltending prospect. And then it's like seven years later, the guy is just slowly making his way through the system.

And then finally, you know, he's 25 or whatever. He's here and he seems maybe ready to be the starter. And it's like, in the meantime, you've gone through three other guys. And now you're like, okay, here's, now we've got two guys. The goaltending situation is going to be fascinating in the offseason. Like really, really interesting. There seem to be so many guys who are going to be either free agents, in terms of like Robin Lennar,

potentially available for trade, cheaper options. It's going to be fascinating to watch how that all shakes out. And, you know, I don't, I still think the Canucks will figure out a way to, to bring Markstrom back and just go with two guys. And if you've got too much goaltending,

then you live with that problem. But yeah, he... Unless somebody pays him. Like, unless somebody goes crazy, because, I mean, he is an established starter in this league. Mm-hmm. I would be wary of the singing for his supperness of this season. His best season statistically happened in his walk year. Yeah.

But to your point, like, Markstrom, Corey Crawford, Robin Lanner, who might be top of the list. If you're Braden Holpey, you're doing the Markstrom Dempco thing right now watching all these guys in the playoffs. You're like, what the fuck am I going to do? Because, like, all these guys are playing really well. And then on top of that, You have the apparent availability of Freddie Anderson. You have the established availability. New York might want a move a guy.

And who needs a guy? And Pittsburgh. The other one, too, with Matt Murray. Yeah. So, like, the goalie merry-go-round is really interesting. And who needs the guy? Well, Calgary probably could use a guy, right? That's one team you look at in you're like, there's an upgrade.

Carolina. And then the other thing here, though, is remember, you know, we're kind of, this thing. This sort of ebbs and flows, but it feels like the needle is starting to point to the side that says you need two goalies. You want two guys. You don't want the other. Well, we got expansion next year. You're only going to be able to protect one. So unless one of those guys is a younger guy who's not eligible, how many teams are looking right now going,

I got two pretty good goalies that I like, but I'm going to lose one of them for nothing next year? Or do I want to move them for something right now? And that's why, you know, we ding Mark Bergevan a lot in the show because everybody he acquires, he tries to turn into a center. And also because he lied during the PKCC. Oh, we're not allowed to make that joke anymore, Greg. Don't. Oh, we're not? No, Montreal fans are now, did you not hear Montreal has too many centers now?

It's, they're so deep at that position. Well, it doesn't change the fact that he did that with like half the players he acquired. I mean, and honestly, honestly, Montreal fans need to check themselves because you have to realize that as you have to two hockey humorists hosting this podcast right now. All they did was adopt the jokes that we used to make about the sabres when they signed Vili Liano, and now they just, we just used to make them about Montreal. It's the same joke. Recycling is important.

Right, exactly. So what they did with Jake Allen was fucking genius, to your point. Like, one year left on his deal, they had the money to absorb the cat pit, even though it looks on its surface absurd that they have $14 million dedicated to their gold pending. You know, Carrie Price plays 82% of their games last season. The backups have an 889 save percentage. And so bringing in Alan, who's a proven commodity and is a guy that you know can do this job of being in reserve and servicing a starter. It's fucking genius.

Like, it was a really, really smart trade to make that trade if you're Montreal. Yeah. I kind of have gone back and forth on it because. Oh. Yeah, I mean, first of all, Jake Allen is, Jake Allen is like the modern day Patrick Lillim. He's a guy that you look at his numbers, and they're really good, especially in the playoffs.

But then you look at more the reputation is, I mean, like Jake Allen is a good goalie, and he has good numbers. He also lost his job to a fourth string ECHL guy and then watched that guy lead a team to a Stanley Cup that Jake Allen had in last place. So, you know, I'm not, I'm old. enough to remember when fans in St. Louis were blaming Jake Allen for a lot of the problems that team had.

You're legally not allowed to slander Jordan Bennington if Ryan's not here, by the way. So just keep that in. Yeah, exactly. We'll splice Ryan in later and post. So, yeah, I mean, Montreal, yes, you want to have a backup. But, man, 15 million on goal-tending. And I know they've got cap space. And I know, you know, you look at the way that they're set up, they don't really, you know, all their guys that are key guys are already signed through next year.

They've got a few RFA's. And then they've got Max Domi. And it certainly sounds like he's on his way out. He just hired Darren Ferris. Yeah, you don't fire your GM's best friend as your agent. No. And hire the Mitch Marner agent. Like, I mean, this is basically the John Wick of RFA negotiator.

negotiators you've just brought in. So it's not hard to remove the writing on the wall. So they probably lose Domi, which is fine because they're so deep at center, you see. But, you know, there's, I'm up two minds on this, right? Like on the one hand, you look at Kerry Price and you go, if I'm paying 10.5 million to a goaltender, I'd like to think I don't have to spend nearly five million on a backup. Right. The flip side of it, and this is the kind of like, Arpan Busu had like this metaphor that I really liked, which is it's what the Canadians have been doing for the last few years is like having like a, a luxury car that you spent a ton on.

And then because you spend so much on the car, you go cheap on the maintenance. And the car starts to break down. And you need to, if you're going to spend that much on the car, you've got to have. have something in the budget for the maintenance as well. And that that's, you know, your backup goalie these days is basically your maintenance for your starter. I just don't, I mean, 4.5, man, 15 million on goaltending, giving up a decent pick for a guy that where St. Louis was very motivated to move. Like this is, this is St. Louis trying to keep their captain, Alex Petrangelo, where you've, they needed the cap space for it. So, I mean, to give up, the fact that St. Louis in a salary dump basically got pretty good value is impressive to me.

It doesn't mean it's a bad deal for Montreal. You can have win-wins. But I'm just, you know, I get that if I'm Mark Bergervan, I'm looking at all this cap space I have and I'm saying, what am I going to do with this? You know, I've got needs in certain spots. One of them is backup goalie. I'm going to spend some of my cap money on a backup goalie. It's a one-year deal. They're not committed long-term or anything like that.

It does make sense in that sense. But what else is going to shake free? Like, we're heading into this off-season where everyone's capped out. Everybody's panicking. Cap-space to me is such a valuable resource right now. And Montreal still has some, but they've got less than they did before. And I'm just wondering, like, what opportunities might disappear in the future because of a deal that they made

the first week of September that I feel like they didn't really have to make right now when we just finished saying there's going to be so much goaltending available unless they really felt like Jake Allen was the guy and they had to have him because obviously St. Louis is going to move him as soon as they possibly could.

I don't know. The timing seems weird. It just doing this versus signing a guy for 2 million who can be a perfectly decent decent backup to carry price just. But could you get a good backup for $2 million for one year? That's part of the equation too, is he's got an expiring contract. I think you could, especially if you're willing to wait out the market a little bit.

Like there's going to be, there's not as many chairs as there are goleys when the music stops, right? There's going to be some guys that are going to get left out. And even if it's a, you know, a veteran guy, if then, yeah, there's going to be options available. again, there is something to be said for, yes, maybe we could do it cheaper later, but we can do it right now with a guy that we like and that we can afford. So just do it now, check something off your list, and you move forward. I get that. But I don't know.

I just, I think cap space is going to be so, so, so valuable that I think the few teams, the few good teams that have it are in a position. of a lot of power right now, and I just wonder if Montreal is going to feel like they're, they got enough value out of that chunk of cap space they just gave up, even knowing that they've still got a decent amount left. That makes sense. Makes sense. Islanders Flyers.

You know, this has been an interesting series, and it's been a compelling series, but every time I see the Islanders and Flyers logos on the screen together, and then I see a game. that doesn't look like in ECW hardcore match from the mid-90s. I get a little sad about what this series would have looked like, you know, 15 years ago. It's, it is a well-played, chess-matchy, ultimately bloodless series for me. And that's a little disappointing. I don't know where you are on it. Yeah, it, it has felt that way.

And it's, this is, and I don't want to get into all this again, but this does feel like the series the Islanders want it, you know, this is, and I won't say boring, but low event. It's not boring. Not a lot. And I'll walk back to the Islanders boring thing. They can be a very exciting team. I mean, they definitely have exciting players.

And, you know, when you are a counterpunch team and a lot of your goals are scored on the rush the other way, it's fun. But like, it's just kind of there. Yeah. And maybe it's just because of like where we are as a league and. You know, our lizard brains are tricked into thinking about the Patrick Division when you see the Flyers and Islanders logos together in a playoff series. But it's just, it's just kind of, I don't know, like, vacuous and compelling. Sure, we might be going to seven, who the hell knows, but like, just not up to playoff standards.

And maybe again, maybe that's symptomatic of not playing these games in front of Philly fans. and in Nassau Coliseum, I think it's probably a much different series, if that's the case. But the way it is now, it's just there for a Flyers Islander series. And that's kind of a weird thing to consume. Yeah. No, I'm with you. And look, I mean, the Islanders are, they've got them on the ropes here. Like, this is, the Flyers are kind of dodging and weaving here.

Three wins for the Islanders and then two overtime wins for the Flyers. So this series could very easily be over all. ready. It's, you know, it's still compelling because it's, and we don't know at this point what some of the injury situations are heading into tonight, which could, could obviously influence one way or another, but. Elaine Vigno saw Matt Barzell in the elevator of their hotel and he had both eyes. So he says he might be good to go. Yeah. That's good, good to know. Elaine's got us. Yep, he's, he's, he's having a strong playoff.

Okay. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it doesn't, it doesn't offer up like the same hooks that some of the other series have. And I know if, you know, if you're a flyer fan or especially an I under fan, you're going to go, well, it's because you're not looking for the, you're not looking in the right places. Maybe, maybe that's it. Um, and, you know, maybe we get, uh, uh, you know, get, get the other series over with and it kind of clears the dance floor. for these two teams to, you know, on a Saturday night game seven situation. But we got to get there first. And like I say, the flyers are just barely hanging on at this point.

So let's see what they've got tonight. This series is Prague Rock. It's just like, I like it because it's rock, but I don't quite connect with it emotionally because it's just kind of going a little bit longer than I want it to go. And it doesn't really suit my. needs as a rock consumer. Oh, yeah.

That works. It's King Crimson. Tampa and Boston, they're done. Boston, obviously the only team in the semifinals to actually have gone home before we did this podcast. As we do the podcast, Zdeno Charis says he wants to come back, which is, I guess, reassuring for those Boston players that looked like they were attending a fucking wake after losing game five.

I mean, we have seen teams be sad and despondent after losing playoff series, sir, but like the Bruins looked like they were just like beside themselves after losing game five of the lightning as far as like end of an era. David Kreichy, not even like looking up from the table to answer questions after that game, talking about like the window being closed and end of an era, that kind of shit. Where are you on Boston from an end of an era perspective? Do you think that they blew their last best chance at this? or is there another kind of couple years of the Bruins before we can declare that?

Yeah, I don't, I'm not declaring them done by any stretch. And I think, you know, David, even David Creachie was saying, like, you know, you look at this group and we may only have two or three years left, which is, you know, is something you're not used to hearing a hockey player say, but at the same time, you're kind of like, yeah, dude, it's the NHL, like every team. Look at any team. They've got two or three years, and then they're going to look very different from what they look now. that's just how it works at this point. But, you know, they've got, you've got two things working against them. There is the situation on the blue line with the contracts and can you bring Tori Krug back or do you lose him and then what happens from there?

And Chera, I assume if he wants to come back, we'll come back on a cheapish deal. They'll figure that out. But, and then I guess you also have to figure out the goaltending, just what, what is the deal with Tuka Rask, does he want to come back? And if so, what does that look like? But he's signed through next year. So, you know, from a cap situation, you're keeping the group together. It's the age factor.

And you're just kind of sitting there going like all of these guys, not all of these guys. A lot of these guys. So in their 30s, well into their 30s, Krati Bergeron, Marchion. It's not, it's always, it always has. day because anytime you ever say a team is an old team, you get, their fans show up and they're like, well, what about this guy? What about this guy? Right. There's no, there's no 2002 red wings where everyone is 35 anymore. Like obviously every team has, you know, they're younger guys and David Pasternak, we may not even have seen his best yet and, you know, some of the other guys. But,

but the concern is the core definitely without question is older. There's just, there's no way around that, especially up front. And then this year they kind of made an effort to bring in some younger guys. And small sample size, but it hasn't really clicked yet. It hasn't really worked. So long story short, I think Boston's still a contender next year. We kind of go one year at a time with these guys because one thing we have learned is when a player gets into their mid-30s, a lot of times it's a gradual decline, but a lot of times it's not. A lot of times it goes from like, hey, that guy was really good.

good to, oh, that guy's 36, okay. Patrice Bergeron doesn't strike me as a guy who's going to have that sort of curve, but who knows? Right. What's interesting to me is, you know, what do you do as a GM when you've got a situation like this? Like the window is not closed, I don't believe, but it is closing. And you can see that. So what do we do here?

Do we say, okay, you know what? it's time to accept reality. We're not going to tear the team down by any stretch, but we got to start looking ahead to the future and what that next chapter looks like and we got to start maybe even just behind the scenes with some smaller moves looking ahead to long term. Or do you say, you know what,

I got to push whatever chips I have left into the middle of the table and try to win with this group and then whatever happens after that happens. And it's tough. And we've seen teams, you know, the Bruins and I hate this comparison because I don't think they're headed anywhere near this direction, but they kind of feel a little bit like the Sharks last year.

People forget the San Jose Sharks were in the conference final last year. And then everybody was like, well, you know, they're going to be good, but for how long the window? And then it turned out the window just slammed shut on them. And I don't think the Bruins are set up for that. But there is that thing where a lot of people now look at Doug Wilson, they go, how come he didn't see this coming? how come he didn't make the moves that he needed to make to bring in some, well, a lot of us didn't see it. You never see it until it's in the middle of happening and it's too late.

So it's going to be really interesting to me. I think Don Swinney is a real good GM. He'll figure this out, but it's kind of the question of what exactly do we do? They've got, they don't have their first round pick this year. So, you know, nobody's suggesting a rebuild. Nobody's suggesting you start moving veterans. But is there a point where you say, maybe, you know, we don't rebuild, but maybe we move that one guy.

Or maybe we look in this direction and just try to get it. I know it was, I think there were a few teams. I think the sharks were one of them, the blues were another, where there was a time a few years ago where if you said a team's core was old, they would get mad at you. And they'd say, we have two cores. We have our veteran core. And then we have the younger core that's coming and already, you know, ready to replace them.

Which, again, defies the definition of a core. It can have two cores. Exactly. But, you know, that's, you know, do you start looking at this and saying, okay, Patrice Berserall won't be here forever? What does this team look like when it is very well and clearly David Pastor Nex team? And who does he have around him? Yeah. And it's, and it's a tough question because it's, you know, it's, it's extremely hard to do both, you know, to get better right now and also build for the future. That's, you kind of have to pick one or the other. And I think if I got a team that's this. good. I'm looking for right now. But I say that understanding that two or three years from now, we might be looking at a mess and going, oh, they should have made the hard choices earlier. Yeah. And I think, you know, to use the Sharks example, like they tried to turn their team over for mostly financial reasons to younger guys and then realized the younger guys either weren't

good enough or weren't ready. And so, When you look at, like, Corey Pranman, our good friend, the Prondog, has the Bruins as the 23rd best organizational ranking in his NHL rankings, right? And the sharks are a few ticks behind that. In terms of guys 23 and under in the organization. Right. Right. So it's not necessarily like the Bruins can do that, you know, get younger in spots and have these guys take over because they might not just be deep enough to do it. and the sharks were in the same boat. So that's a good comparison there. Briefly on the lightning, I mean, great fucking win.

You're in an interesting spot now with them where you have Braden Point, who is their leading scorer and doing the lion's share of the offensive work for that team, along with Kuturov. And then you've got Hedman, who scores the series clinching goal, is doing Victor Hedman things. And I think I've long. said that if they win the cup, he wins the con just because of how much the writers love him. But it's it's those two guys kind of carrying the torch along with Vasilleski right now for a team that's kind of kind of looking exactly what they, what, what, uh, Julian Breezewell probably envisioned,

which is your high end guys are doing high end guy things and your grunts are doing everything you wanted them to do, including little plays like Pat Maroon screening the goalie for the, the big goal and shit like that. Yep. And, you know, they. I was one of those people at the deadline was like, man, they're, they're paying a lot to bring in third line depth, but it's, that third line looks really good. And it's, it's a big part. And we don't know Nikita Kuturov's status, but they look really good. And it's, it's easy to forget. You watch them and you see them roll over a really good Boston team. And it's like, oh yeah, Stephen Stamco's isn't playing yet. and we don't know if he's if he's coming back there's some question about that but if he does I mean holy smokes you're talking about adding like a top line scoring threat into a lineup

that's already rolling they look good and it's it's the lightning are so funny because we've spent the last year talking about the lightning after what happened against Columbus and how they you know what's wrong with this team they can't win in the playoffs what is it about the way that they're built? Is it something mental? Is it something, is it coaching? Why can't they get over the hump? And then you kind of look back and you're like, oh, wait, this, other than the Columbus

year, this team goes to the conference final pretty much every single year. Like they have a lot of playoff success. They haven't won a cup with this group, but they've been to a final, a couple other conference finals. Like, this is a really good team. And they've been my cup pick. all along. I'm going to stick with it. It's going to be interesting to see this is sort of the first time that we're going to see the significant gap between one team having rest and one

team not, especially if Philly and the Islanders goes seven. So it'll be interesting to see normally that, normally that helps the rested team going forward, but maybe helps the other team in game one is the way you kind of conventional wisdom, but who knows, in a bubble, that could all be, that could all be very different. But Tampa's in really good shape. They're a really good team. They're great. And they're set up very well. And yeah, I made them my cup pick and I'm, certainly haven't seen anything that's going to make me change my mind. Me too. And again, like really smart moves in the offseason last year and during the season this year. to just make sure they had the depth.

You know, to get to the playoffs. I really wonder if that, especially if they win, if that causes like a change in thinking at the deadline away from I'll trade my first round pick for a big name for one year to rent a guy versus I'll trade my first round pick for an okay guy that's on a cheap deal for a couple of years and bring him in to fit in. And it was a different way of thinking.

and it's so far. You know, we're basing this on a month, but it's working, and it made a lot of sense. That's a smart. That's a smart call. LeBron wrote the other day about how, like, you know, the trade deadline is in a place that teams usually do business and could Tampa change that? And, like, we're only a couple of years removed from the penguins adding Carl Hagelin and Justin Schultz at the deadline.

So it's like, it's not as if the trade deadline hasn't benefited cup winning teams in recent memory. But I think your take is a good one, which is that maybe they just go about their business a little bit differently and target different players, but also, like, you know, clearly addressing the need for, you know, a certain type of player that I think was a response to how they lost last year. I mean, like, you get Blake Coleman or Bartley Goodrow or Pat Maroon on your team. You're doing that knowing that those are the types of goals that you need in a series against Columbus you didn't get from your tippy top guys. So it was smart. And again, like the more depth you have and then you face it.

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Mack Welton for sponsoring the show. All right. Well, we got ourselves a GM hiring this week. That's always exciting. As Bill Zito, a guy that I have lobbied for several years to get a gig as the GM in this league gets his job with the Florida Panthers. That, I believe, Sean, leaves Mike Futa as the only guy who is an assistant GM who gets to interview for every job but never gets it as the last man standing. Paul Fenton got hired briefly. Bill Zito gets the five-year deal. Florida. So Feudov's the only guy left from that list, right? Yeah, he's the only guy left of the fictional made-up names that are just like computer generated to fill out the... Yeah, it's,

I'm, I'm fascinated by not the hiring process that goes on with these jobs, but the behind-the-scenes getting your name out there as having been considered. Done it. Right. It's fascinating to me, because it's interesting, like, if you're, like, If you read closely, there are guys that are reported as interviewing for a job. And if you see the word interview, you can assume that it happened. But then there's other guys that are reported as like in the running or being considered. And I just wonder how much of that is guys who are good sources to certain insiders and then turn around and be like, hey, can you put, can you put my name out for this so that, you know, so that we keep it out?

because there's certain guys that are just like every year, and when there's an opening, you're just like, really, John Ferguson, Jr., again, is getting mentioned on this? Is somebody lining up 15 years later for that opportunity? It's, yeah, I would love to know how that all goes down. But yeah, congratulations, Bill Zito. Eight teams, I think, was the number that he had been in the, in, considered for.

And he finally gets it. So, you know, you stick with it. And now he's got his opportunity. And it's an interesting one. I don't say that. The Zito, by the way, Zeno, I think was like a very, very late stage finalist for the devil's job that Fitzgerald ended up keeping. But he's been a bridesmaid so many times for this stuff. So it was good to see him finally get the job.

To your point about, like, who's putting that info into the world? So who is putting the, the. NHL wants to get Peter Shearrelli a job info into the world. Because that's, that's been a thing in the last couple of months. Where is that even? And I don't know where that's coming from because that doesn't, I'm not sure who that benefits,

right? Like, if you're Peter Shirelli, you don't want everyone to know that you're being interviewed because Gary Bettman says so. Like, that's like being the kid, like you only got invited to the birthday party because your mom,

you know, made the other, like, made a phone call. You're the pitcher. You're the pitcher on the Little League team because your dad's the coach or some shit. Like, it's just not cool.

So I don't know where that's coming from. That is interesting to me, but I, yeah, the other thing that's interesting about the Panthers is this report that Chris Drury either, well, that he removed himself

from the running and either was deep into the process or potentially even the favorite and then said, no thanks, I'll go back to the Rangers, which is always makes you wonder, A, is that what happened? And if so, what did Chris Dury see in that process that made him not want to take the job? Or is it maybe more of a

case of somebody realizing that, you know, they weren't going to get a job and putting it out there that they walked away from it? I don't know. But that's... I still don't know why he didn't, I mean, like, if he wanted a gig, just have the Pagulas pay you $10 million a year. and come save the Sabres. Like, that's the gig you should have taken. That's the one I was surprised he didn't get. Yeah. But I guess.

And if I'm Chris Drury, just fucking hang out for a few years and see if you win a cup with the Rangers. You're just going to add, like, zeros to the end of your asking price if that happens. Well, you're going to add, except, you know, then at what point do you become the new Mike Fuda where you're just, you know, for how many years have we've been saying, this guy's going to get a job somewhere sometime. And there's not a lot of these jobs. There's only so many. Yeah. They only open up so often. And I'm not saying you take anything, because obviously there's got to be some level of fit.

But, yeah, to be turning down potential offers is interesting to me if that's actually how it played out. Another opening that's still sort of open. Steve Sullivan is the interim guy is Arizona, which, I mean, what's even your read on that? Like, there's probably a certain amount of, like, support to just keep him around for consistency's sake. There's probably a lot of also support of bringing somebody in to shift the paradigm on a roster that probably isn't all that good that John Shaka put together there. You know, this guy's names come up before for gigs. And I've always said that the right spot for this guy is a place where. where you need a little bit of a carnival barker,

where you need somebody to run the organization, and also sort of be the face of the franchise a little bit and get people hyped up. When Ottawa had an opening, I thought that this guy would have been perfect there as sort of the antithesis or antagonist of Brian Burke when he was in Toronto. Pierre McGuire, Arizona Coyotes GM. What do you think?

You're just trying to get them off TV, and we all know what you're doing. I mean, clearly, yes, but still, I mean, if you're looking for, if you're looking for a sort of like malleable personality less franchise that, you know, could use it. Listen, I mean, he's got, he's got Pittsburgh ties, I believe, right? Sort of. Talkets there, you know. I don't know. I feel like a big personality.

is needed for that job to sort of give that franchise a little bit of personality. Now that they're not going to be the analytics franchise anymore. And like, why not? If ever there was a place for him to go. And listen, this is not like speaking out of our asses here. This man is interviewed for big jobs. He was, he interviewed for the penguin's job. This guy has certainly had his name out there for all the big jobs.

To go back to your previous point. I wonder if you go back and reread how many of them actually. say they interviewed versus was just in the running. Here's the thing. We've heard as far as guys who aren't currently in front offices and are in the media instead, we've heard him, we've heard Ed Olchuk, we've heard Kevin Weeks. Kevin Weeks, yep. I guess there's, and that, all three of those make me nervous.

Just because being a GM of an financial team is such a hard job and such a complicated, multifaceted job that somebody coming in fresh who hasn't been. in a front office at all would really make me wonder. Now, these guys are super well connected, and maybe they surround themselves with the best of the best, and you're fine. But that would really make me wonder. But that becomes a question that, what do you do?

If you're going to bring in someone who doesn't have that firsthand experience, do you bring in a guy like Kevin Weeks, who's at least, you know, younger, some fresh ideas, modern guy, or do you bring in a guy like Pierre McGuire who did the job 20 years ago and didn't do it particularly well. I mean, he was awful as a coach, not great in the front office. You know, it's one thing to, you know, bring in a guy like a Brian Burke who had success 20 years ago and think that he can pull it off again in what would be a very different league.

Why are you bringing back guys who didn't have success 20 years ago? This spot seems to me like it's going to be a. name. It doesn't seem like it's going to be a Futa or someone like that. It feels like it's going to be one of those Shirelli, Ray Shiro, guy on TV type jobs. And maybe it's like the fact that you have a guy who's a Vegas landowner as your boss, as the owner of the team now, and you know that he's going to want a little bit of flash to it. I just get the feeling that this is going to be one of those hires where we will not have to run to Wikipedia to figure out who this fucking guy is when they hire him. Like, we're going to know who it is when they hired them for sure.

Here's the flip side of that is that like this is a team where like I don't, you know, I don't know that a GM, GMs don't sell tickets. Do they get people talking maybe? This is a team that had Wayne Gretzky as their coach for a few years. The greatest, most famous hockey name ever was not just in the organization, but was the coach. You could buy a ticket. You could go and look at Wayne Gretzky. Like he was he was right there and I don't and it didn't you know tick you know they that that

that didn't turn anything around that didn't they didn't they didn't sell any more tickets and the reason they didn't is because he wasn't very good as a coach so the team wasn't very good and that's ultimately what determines how successful you are so yeah I mean you could bring in a personality but if that personality is is not qualified to be in NHLGM, it's, it's just going to get worse. And, you know, there is that, the flip side of what you just said is there are some markets, bigger markets where you say, you know, we need someone who can handle the media, we need someone who's, you know, got the strong voice that they can deal with all the stuff. Arizona might be a market where you go, you know what, we don't get a lot

of attention anyways, let's just bring in the smartest, best person we can find. And even if it doesn't, you know, even if they can't do the rest of the stuff and be the carnival barker, that's okay because nobody's listening to the Carnival Barker anyway, so let them just do the job. Granted, that kind of is what they thought they were doing with John Chaka, and here we are a few years later. So go get the good version of John Chaka. Go hire Eric Tulski from Carolina, our good friend. Yeah. It's the way to go.

You could do that. It'll be interesting to see that that plays out. Todd Reardon gets fired by the capitals, goes back to the Penguins. Penguins fans celebrate. He, of course, was the architect of a very good blue line for many years in Pittsburgh. He immediately praises Jack Johnson. Penguins fans say, get the fuck out of here, go back to Washington. Pretty much.

Yep. What's the news cycle this week? But again, what are you expecting to say? Like, if he says anything critical of Jack Johnson, he is basically just like, like pissing in the Cheerios with a guy who just signed his check, right? I mean, it's clear that Jim Rutherford, for whatever reason, has affinity for Jack Johnson and Todd Rudin is there to make the most of that situation because he's not going anywhere, apparently.

That's it. And it's, yeah, I can't remember, I'm sure it's happened, but for a guy to be fired as a head coach and to find a new job that quickly as an assistant is unusual. Like we've seen guys get fired as head coaches and take other head coaching jobs quickly because like we just said with GM, there's only so many of these jobs out there. It's it kind of, in a way, it's probably smart. I mean, this is Todd Reardon being self-aware enough to go, you know what, the way things went down in Washington for whatever reason, I'm not getting offered a head coaching job next. My next stop is going to be either head coach in the minors or assistant, like one of the, those two stepping stone jobs.

You got to do your hockey penance, you know. So go, go take a spot somewhere. I mean, Pittsburgh would obviously is a good landing spot, not even in the sense of a potential opening as head coach, although with the way Rutherford's talking, you never really know. But, you know, you've got a chance to work with the best player in the world. You got a chance to win. You got a chance to be part of what would be perceived as a turnaround.

story. It's a smart landing spot. It's just interesting to me to see a guy be self-aware enough and not sit there and go, no, no, I'm going to hold out for for a head coaching job. And next thing, you know, it's a year or two later and you're sitting there going, yeah, probably should have just gone to Pittsburgh. Yeah. To answer your question, it feels very Belichekian. Like when those Patriots guys would leave and go get other jobs in the NFL and then like they flop and then they immediately come back and rejoin his staff. It's kind of how it feels. Our friend Frank Saravelli,

once in future Puck Soup guest, assuming we ever have guests again, released his trade board. This is what Frank does at TSN. He has the trade board. And it's all the players that could be traded. And on the list, number five on the list, to the surprise of many this week, Sean,

Patrick Linae, with the one year left on his contract. with the, you know, the down year by his goal scoring standards, only 28 and 68 games. Almost immediately, every pundit in the world started playing matchmaker with the Carolina Hurricanes, trying to find a way to get Patrick Lainey to play with Sebastian Ajo, noting that, you know, the hurricanes have much of what the Jets need, which are defensemen. Would you, would you get out of the Patrick Lainé business if you were the Winni Jets? though. I mean, my short answer will be the same answer I almost always give with this sort of question,

which is I'd certainly be open to it. I'm a GM. It's my job to try to make my team better. I'm not writing any options off. Patrick Liney's obviously a good player and has a potential to be a very good player. He's not untouchable. He hasn't done anything in this league to make him somebody that you just can't. You've got to hang up the phone if somebody calls. I mean, the jets need serious help in the blue line. They could use some help down the middle in that middle six. And guys like that cost you something. So, you know, they're then going to look and say,

okay, what do we have maybe an area of strength? And the forwards, especially on the wing, is that area of strength. So yeah, you absolutely are going to look at. is there a situation out there where we can get better making this trade? Now, a lot of times the answer to that ends up being no. There just isn't. You shop a guy around or you listen to offers, however you want to phrase it. And then there isn't something there that makes sense.

But I would absolutely be willing to consider that sort of move. And that's what I'm a fan. That's what I want my GM doing. I don't want him sitting there deciding that half the team is untouchable. and we're not even going to talk about him. This would make sense for the Jets under the right circumstances to at least explore it,

which is not the same as saying you've got to move the guy because you clearly don't, and chances are he's in the lineup opening night next year, and we all move on. But yeah, I mean, you've had a disappointing season. You've got clear needs. Go out and see what potential solutions there could be. That's your job.

you've kind of encapsulated the reaction to this from everywhere, which is he's obviously not available. They're obviously not shopping him, but it wouldn't shock you if it happened. And I would be shocked if it happened. I think it'd be fucking bonkers to trade Patrick Line right now, to be honest with you. 138 goals in his first 305 games. a down year this year still had 63 points and 68 games. Like this is the fucking elite talent. And the idea that you would dangle this guy out there

instead of doing the thing you should fucking do, which is to get him a center, is just insane to me. And I'm sure there's some logic behind it. I'm sure Frank heard something from somebody about him being available, have you. Oh, well, yeah. Clearly.

They have to give a new, we're not shopping guy. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Like, you know, you're looking at Patrick Lining and you're going, like, it always feels like this guy, he'll have a few weeks where he looks like he's the next Ovechkin, and then it kind of falls off, and the numbers are never quite what you think. And you always feel like there's more there, which makes him harder to trade because, you know, what if we trade him? And then he blows up and has the 50 goal or 60 goal year somewhere else.

You know what? You know what it sounds like? It sounds like early Teresenko is what it sounds like. Could be. Like, you know, what's this guy going to be? Oh, my God. What do we do? And then, like, you know, they stuck with him. And then they, you know, won a cup with him. And he was very productive during that run.

I just, I don't, I think he's, I know, I know why this is happening. Like, he had not the best goal scoring season. His numbers have fended down the last two seasons. He's due a new contract. That's, that's key. We, we just went through one year ago, like a pretty tough negotiation with Patrick Liney on, on what turned out. out to be a bridge deal.

Yeah. Bridge is up after next year. So this is when you say like, you know, there's more in the tank. What if he goes up? Yeah, well, what if he does have the big blow up year this year? Then what? You know, how are you? What's, you're already paying him almost $7 million against the cap.

What if he finally has that one year? And then he says, okay, now I'm a $10 million winger. I want Mitch Marner money. I want, you know, it's, can you do that? And the other thing you have to keep mind when it comes to the jet. And they don't, Kevin Shevoldayoff as a guy hasn't done a lot of trading, but it's, it's, and you kind of hate to say it, and it can be over-emphasized as a factor. But if you're the Winnipeg Jets and you're sitting there going, we need help in the blue line, we need a second line center, your options in free agency are not the same as they would be for other teams. You're just, you're not a destination.

You're not going to say you're never going to sign anyone. but A, some people just don't want to play in Winnipeg and B, some people who do want to play in Winnipeg, you're going to have to pay a premium to get them versus what some other team might offer. And that's just the reality. So if you've got a chance to trade for somebody who's got years left of team control on their contract,

I think you have to consider doing it because your odds of doing it through free agency or doing it even for very, veteran guys that you can say, well, what about a rental? What about a one-year deal? A veteran guy, well, if he's got a no trade, you are probably on it. So it does make it a little tougher.

So that means you've got to trade for younger guys, which means you're going to have to give up younger guys. That's just how it's going to work. You said that a lot of people don't want to play in Winnipeg. Is it because they have no parks there and they all live on the ground and they don't have any parks? That is exactly the reason, yes.

If the Jets trade Patrick Liney for Brett Pesci just fucking fold the franchise. That's kind of how I feel about it. Before we get to some other stuff real quick, so we should mention and follow up on the fact that we were very critical of the players for not postponing their games the same time that the other sports did. I still think they did the wrong thing. I also think that it's pretty hilarious. So I watched the first episode of Quest for the Cup last night on ESPN Plus. And I have a sort of a recap of the show on ESPN this morning if you want to check it out. It's a good episode.

They definitely need to do more on ice chirping, which is one of my favorite things from 24-7. There wasn't like any of it last night. It was kind of weird. But they also sort of did a NHL edit on the timeline of what happened with the protests. Like they kind of indicated, oh, yeah. yeah, the teams talked about it and they decided that they were going to play. No, that's not how it worked. Like, they didn't talk about it.

Like, you literally had coaches after the game being like, well, if anybody had bought it up, we probably would have talked about it. So that was kind of a weird flex to see the NHL rewrite history a little bit on that. It was not a situation where the teams mulled over whether they shouldn't play that night and then decided to play. They just didn't even talk about it. Half the guys were napping during the NBA stuff and were fourth. right in saying that. It was only the next day that shit happened. And so the next day did,

shit did happen. And so, you know, looking back on it and that decision to not play for a couple days was a really powerful moment. I mean, I don't think any of us are going to soon forget the image of, you know, Pierre Edward Belmar and Nazim Kodry and Ryan Reeves standing front and center in front of, you know, a few dozen Western conference players delivering that press conference. I mean, that's a really, really striking visual and some shit that we had never seen before. And it was powerful at the end of the day.

Would it have been more powerful to join the other sports? So when every news organization in the world wrote about the protests, the NHL wasn't conspicuous by its absence, probably yes. But at the end of the day, they did something and it was admirable. Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, it was, like we said, it was a day late, and when we talked about this a week ago, we addressed that. We said if they do something different today or tomorrow, then that will be one thing. But the time to have done it was the same day that the NBA did it.

And I stand by that I've had people on Twitter come up to me like, are you going to revise now that the, no, I'm not revising what I said last week, because Last week I was addressing and we were addressing what the NHL had failed to do in support of the NBA at the time that the NBA was doing it. And that said, as far as, okay, the next day is a new day. You missed your opportunity. I think they've acknowledged that the players largely have. What do we do from here? And I think what they did from there was the right thing. And I'll give them credit for that even as I still wish that they had done it a day earlier.

Yeah. The other thing to say about this was, again, you can't underscore enough how important the role the hockey diversity alliance has played in a lot of this stuff, acting as exactly as you'd hope they would, which is as sort of an ombudsman for the NHL's lack of effort on some of these things and some of these issues. and also as a sounding board for players looking for more information. And so, you know, the HDA has these Zoom conversations with players over the two days in which they weren't playing to kind of talk about these things and educate them and talk about next steps. That's really impressive. The HDA served its best purpose, I think, during this. And then they went out and released the pledge that they wanted the NHL to sign. on. They gave it to the NHL in July 14th. They're still waiting for the NHL to sign off on it. And it is a eight-step pledge. Here we go. Ready?

Increased the number of black employees at all levels in the NHL. Well, that's something that you could probably get behind. Makes a lot of sense. Ensure procurement of an inclusive and diverse supplier base. This was an interesting one because basically they want 10% of the league's procurement expenditure for like, you know, hockey supplies, office supplies, whatever, to come from predominantly black-owned businesses. I think that's a reasonable ask. That's the smart move. Ensure that the voices of black players are heard.

Sure, obviously. They want to impose a requirement that at least 50% of the executive inclusion committee shall be comprised by members selected by the HDA. Well, that's an interesting one. I don't know if Gary Bettman is really into the outside organization tries to select members of NHL committees thing. That might be a tough one to get to. Number four, implement anti-racism education for all league employees. Why aren't we doing that already?

Fuck. Do we not have that? Is that possibly true? Is it possibly true in a post Bill Peters world? We don't already have this? Oh, by the way, Bill Peters still not. not suspended. I just want to point that out. Number five, create a zero tolerance policy to abolish racial discrimination and abuse. HDA approved policies and sanctions that reflect a

commitment to zero tolerance respect to racial discrimination and abuse before the start of next season. That sounds reasonable. They should be a policy in place anyway. That way Bill Peters would be suspended. Number six, here's a lot. fun one. Ready, Sean? I'm ready. They want the NHL to sign off on a pledge that says we will not support, partner with, or accept support from any organization that is engaged in, promoted, or failed to appropriately respond to racist conduct in their organization of any kind. Now, that is a wide-ass net they're casting.

I mean, you are talking about media companies that the NHL has partnered with. You are talking about hockey USA? I mean, if you're talking about the Van Biesbrook thing. You're talking about a lot of organizations, and I would be fascinated to see if the NHL ever did sign off on that, who the HDA is thinking about. Right. Because that puts a tremendous amount of power in the HDA's hands in that, you know,

as awful as it is to say, these days, you know, how many organizations actually are handling this stuff the right way or in a way that's unimpeachable, right, that nobody can point to and say you're not doing enough. So it really does give the HDA almost not veto power in the actual sense. You know, the NHL could ignore them and say, we're going to continue. We know we think whichever organization it is has done enough and that's it. But from a public perception point of view, it gives the HDA tremendous power over a lot of this stuff.

And you know what? Is it too big of an ask or too broad of an ask? Yeah, probably. That's where they should start on this stuff. You know, the NHL hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt. Ask big. If the eventual pledge that gets signed, assuming there is one, looks different. You know, let's not pick it apart.

Let's not say, you know, if this word got changed or this got the, you know, this, this ask isn't as broad anymore. That doesn't mean it's a failure. It doesn't mean that anybody did anything wrong. It's ask big. You know, the HDA is doing important work, and they have a moment here where they've got some power, and they're using it, and that's what they should be doing. And if the final result ends up looking not quite like this, then that's okay, too. Number seven, transparent communication to the HDA of all actions related to this.

Ask, because if you know anything about Gary Betman's NHL, they're all about transparency. see. And number eight, commit to funding HDA programs and initiatives, social justice initiatives, grassroots hockey initiatives, creating anti-racism and unconscious bias training programs for use of minor leagues across North America. We've talked about this before. Their ask is $100 million over a 10-year period, which is a lot for a new organization. But like you said, they've got a lot of leverage now, and they've got a lot of support, and they've got some, smart backing behind them. So we'll see what happens with these things. I do find it again, fascinating that the NHL is trying to run parallel to this organization, their own diversity

initiatives internally, like committees that have Gary Bettman and Kim Bagula on them and others. So you wonder if we're headed towards an eventual collaboration, or at least the NHL's desire to collaborate, or maybe not. And I frankly think that the H.DA working independent of the NHL is the best place for them to be. But that's just, that's just me. So it was interesting stuff. All right, a couple things before we say goodbye. We are going to do a segment called mailbag lost letters.

These are entries in the Puck Soup mailbag from the Patreon from older mailbags that we never got to, but they were interesting. And I figured that Sean and I would, would answer a couple of them on the podcast this week. Ariel Rojo wants to know If no number were off limits And you played in the NHL What number would you choose? It's a very good question My number, when I was a kid

And I pictured myself in the NHL My number was always 71 I grew up, I was a Wendell Clark fan But obviously I couldn't take Wendell Clark's number Because he was going to be playing on my line When I eventually made the Leafs So I was going to flip it around

And when I was a kid, there weren't a lot of 701s. It was kind of a cool, cool number. And then, like, Mike Felino wore that with the Leafs, which is fine. And then David Clarkson came along and ruined it forever. But I still feel like that's, you know, when I, and I'll acknowledge, my odds of making the NHL are not looking great right now. I feel like my window is closing. Ever increasing, I'd say. Yeah.

But it could still happen. And if it does, yes. 71 is the one I'm going to be breaking out. And it's not an Evgeny Malcon tribute. It's a, uh, that that was just as a kid, flip, flip Wendell's number. And, uh, I thought it would look cool. So when I was like typing myself into video games, that was me with 70, right.

71, 71 number, 99 speed, 99 shot. It was good. 40 aggression. No, no. It maxed that out. And then I put like 90 for passing because it felt weird if I, if I, if you just went maximum them across the board. Like,

it had to be realistic. So, uh, I, my, my number as a little leaguer was 47. I always liked that number a lot. Um,

doesn't really translate to being a good hockey number, unless you're like a five foot eight defenseman. Yeah. Maybe five foot six. Uh-huh. Um, I, I would probably go,

honestly that I think the coolest looking number in hockey is 88. Uh, I've been a fan of that since Lindross. Um, I think Nate Schmidt, is, Nate Schmidt, an 88? Am I imagining?

Yep. Burns, Vasselisky, Kane. There's quite a few. I do love an 88. So I would I probably take that as my number. But the real answer is kind of what's something what Sean was getting at, which is you take whatever number is the easiest

to become the best at that number on a given team. Like if you get traded to the devils and there's never been a 71 in devil's history, you fucking become 71. Become the best 71 in devil's history. That's right. It's like, you don't, yeah, you don't go there and take like, you know, 15 or some shit,

or, you know, like Langenbrenner did. You're trying to, you know, surpass the legacy of John McLean. Come on, what are you doing? Absolutely. Ryan Caldwell wants to know, what random quotes from random movies do you find yourself quoting in front of people who have likely never have seen the movie? For me, it's Rose goes in front, Rose goes in the front big guy from Bulldo. them. And yeah, hence, from the house bunny. Wow, quoting the house bunny around.

Nice. I'll give you a movie that I quote a lot that I don't think everyone has seen, which is the Ryan Reynolds-A-Farrest classic Just Friends. You're probably correct. There's a line of that movie. There's a line of that movie I use with frequency whenever somebody, whenever somebody has identified from being from New Jersey. I use the line, come on, he's Jersey.

He skis in his jeans, which I think is just like the greatest indictment of the New Jersey's of the New Jersey Winter Sports guy. But Just Friends is a plethora of quotes that I use a lot in life, but I don't think a lot of people have seen them. And then I would probably also say that like,

there's a healthy amount of mystery science theater, 3,000 quotes that I probably incorporated into my own lexicon that people don't know. And I'll tell you this, too, I was reminded of this. Like, we're in sort of the Bill and Ted zeitgeist again because the new movie came out, which I am on the fence about seeing. I don't really know if I want to see a couple of, like, 50-year-olds trying to do Bill and Ted.

I'm sure it's fine. You're going to see it. I mean, I don't, okay, let me rephrase it. I don't want to pay to see it. If it's around in front of me, I'll probably watch it. But, like, I have been using strange things. things are a foot at the circle K throughout the entirety of my life. And I often wonder how well-known that line is for anybody who isn't my age and kind of grew up with Bill and Ted. Because that is

maybe a weekly line that I've used in life. Yeah, that one's a common one. I struggle with this question because I have like a whole segment of my brain that is apparently completely devoted to and for me it's usually when I read something, just instantly spitting out some pop culture reference, whether it's a song lyric or a line from a show or a movie. But I don't say it out loud. And the question was like something you say in front of people,

which first of all, I haven't had a conversation with an actual person in six months in person. So I don't remember what that's like. But no, I'm not like, I don't like throw out. lines in front of other people, but they just happen in my head. But I will say, and I've mentioned this before, but I just, I say it again, because I'm proud of it. Having watched a good chunk of, I think you should leave with my kids and seeing them

incorporate that, you know, against each other or against their mother who hasn't watched the show, like, is, like, anytime I've noticed that anyone in the house says that something is a good idea. A kid will immediately jump in and saying that they stand by it in the in the focus, like the car focus group guy accent.

Or if any if we're watching something and somebody drops a, drops a random F bomb into it that one of the kids will be like, don't swear. What game show me? No one that has swearing. You know, it's just

so I My answer is I don't really do it, but I feel like maybe it skips a generation because the kids are already on this stuff. And God help you if you go to a restaurant with my kids and order nachos, you're done for it at that point. What? Yeah. Yeah. I think you should leave us definitely now become the purveyor of many catchphrases and communications in my life. A couple more.

East Bay Rye. what does your ideal burger look like if you're grilling at home for yourself or your family? What kind of bun cheese toppings and condiments are you using? So this is an interesting question because we've been eating a lot of the veggie burgers, Ruby and I, for the last year. Because she's not a bit, she doesn't, she will eat a steak, but she's not a big, like, beef burger fan. So we would have a turkey burger, we'd have a veggie burger. The burger itself doesn't matter. to me. It's how you dress it up. And here's how I dress it up. Brioche bun. You need to have some

kind of green. I mean, I would prefer spinach over anything. I think that works well. Cheese, that sort of depends on the burger. I am a, you know, New Jersey suburbs boy, so just a slice of American is fine by me. But if you're having a turkey burger, I like a good slice of Havardi cheese on the burger. As far as condiments go, well, please keep in mind that I used to work at Burger King. So the ketchup mayo whopper combination is unimpeachable, in my opinion, as far as condiments go. So that would be it. Oh, and also a slice of raw onion. I love the crunch and the pungent taste of a raw onion on a burger as well. So raw onion, spinach, ketchup, mayo, bryosh bun and then whatever the fuck you want the burger to be is fine by me.

I'm glad you said that because I, every year, literally every year, every grilling season, I say that this is the year I'm going to learn how to actually make a good burger and not just buy frozen stuff and to keep in my freezer and throw on the grill. I'm actually going to make, you know, I'm going to mix the ground beef and, you know, I'm going to form the patty and really make a good burger. and I never do it. And if I didn't do it this year, I mean, when's it actually? I've got to just accept that I'm a frozen burger guy.

And I'm not super picky on that. I'm not even, and I'm not like, I'm not a cheeseburger guy. Bun, I mean, I've got two kids, so it's kind of whatever. I do like to toast the bun. I think that does make a difference. But it's, yeah, for me, it's a good enough burger, toasted bun. and then it's all in the condiments, and I'm a good mix guy. I'll throw in a little Thousand Island dressing.

That's kind of your simulated Big Mac sauce, which I think is pretty similar to what you're getting at with the ketchup mayo. And then a couple of pickles. And my son is carrying on this tradition. He's becoming like, how many pickles can I get on this burger guy? Like when we go to a, we go to a hard of where you can get actually. Yeah, like he'll actually sit there and like, no, keep it going. And I think his record is nine slices of dill pickle, which is pretty good, you know,

until the excruciating stomach pain starts half an hour later. But it's worth it. So, yeah, I'm, uh, I, in my head, I'm more of like a, I aspire to like a level of burger artistry that I'm realistically have just never attained. I don't know where we are as a. when it comes to burger bars in a in a COVID world. But man, I loved Roy Rogers to make it local when I was a kid had a burger bar. And you could get like horseradish sauce.

You could put on your burger and eat your fries with was fantastic. And then Fuddruckers is the place that really blew out the concept of the burger bar and having like different kinds of lettuce and different kinds of toppings and shit like that. I've got a lot of time for you, they sell you the. burger and then you build it kind of shit. I like that a lot. See, this is why, like, and again, it's a Canadian thing, but this is why Harvey's is the best fast food burger place because it's a fast food place and yet they build a burger in front of you, like subway style with all the burger toppings. And it's perfect. And named after Harvey Weinstein, correct? Am I, did I think, I think I saw that on Wikipedia.

Yeah. That's, it sounds legit. So I'll go with it. Okay. Very good. Finally, Lucas Dedy wants to know which team right now has the greatest gap in quality and play on the ice to quality of Jersey, i.e. the Colorado Road jersey is putrid, but damn, they are an amazing team. Well, thinking about the final eight teams here. Okay. Because I was going to say the easy answer there is the Red Wings. I mean, that's a fantastic.

Oh, you went the other way. Fantastic Jersey. their absolute garbage team. I mean, I'm on the record as not being a big uniform guy. But let me... Carolina Hurricanes is always one for me. Like, this really toilet bowl logo doesn't do anything for me. I feel like they could look better.

The avalanche I'm on the record. It's just saying I'm not a fan. We've seen different variations of the avalanche jersey and outdoor games and stuff. They all look better than what they wear normally. and their logo could seriously use a refresh. I still say it looks like something out of a children's book where you're trying to learn the letter A. It's a bad logo.

But of the teams that are still remaining, I mean, look, your mileage may vary on the Lightning jersey. I think they're fine. There's something kind of retro cool about them. I know they're basically a knockoff of the Leafs at the end of the day. as far as the color scheme and everything else. So if you wanted to say that the lightning are fan fucking-tastic on the ice and their jersey looks pretty good,

I'm here for that. But his example of the avalanche might be the ultimate one, just because I've been waiting for years for them to just officially refresh that jersey. But, I mean, if you're going to go the other way, I mean, obviously Detroit's the answer. And then the only other one I throw out there is the Canucks. The current look is fine, but they had such a great. The black and orange and gold flying skate look is so good that just anything. It's like, you know, it's like your friend who had like the really cool girlfriend or boyfriend,

and it didn't work out, and now they're with someone else. And you're like, that person's fine, but I missed that. I miss that. I remember that other guy? He was great. You know, it's just, it's so, yeah, sorry. Thank you. That's good. That's good. Yeah, that's all very good. I like that a lot.

All right. That's the show for this week. We've gone long enough. Go buy some Macwellden shit at macwellden.com. It's good stuff. You could read all my stuff on ESPN.com, including my column today on playoff officiating. That also has the three people. I'm sorry, the three players that you meet in Zoom press conferences is the comedy bit in the column this week.

It's very good. You could listen to my other podcast, ESPN and I with Emily Kaplan. We talked to Steve Mayer from the NHL about the bubble and next season. Oh, and if you didn't read it, do check out our story from Tuesday about next season in which we talked to a bunch of team executives and league executives on background about what they think is going to happen. including how many games we might play, when we might get fans back in the arena, and all that shit. It was really eye-opening to do that story.

And I don't often put over the work of my cohorts on this podcast unless they've done it for the Patreon. But I will go ahead and say that you should obviously read Sean and are also Puck'sup-adjacent-French, Sean Cheneely, and their rundown of American and Canadian commercials during the Stanley Cup playoffs. Sean, did you not? ever see the Adina Manzel

Geico commercial? I had never seen it. It doesn't run in Canada. Wow. And I had there, once I had the idea for doing this piece, I, you know, intentionally avoided seeking it out on YouTube or something like that. But yeah, this is, this is something that I don't think a lot of hockey fans realize is that in playoff time, you're always annoyed by the same commercials playing over and over and over again.

but they're, for the most part, different in Canada and the U.S. So Canadians have no idea what you're talking about with the taxidermy, and Americans have no idea when we're complaining about Sellies and Frosted Flakes. Like, it's just complete confusion. So my idea was, let's have a Canadian and an American, watch each other's most annoying commercials for the first time and react to them in real time. And, you know, is it going to win a Pulitzer?

Probably. It probably will. but they haven't announced it yet. What did you find more accursed the Adina Mansell Geico commercial or the $5 foot long? And what's the third one that's always in big rotation? I'm trying to remember which one it is. Sean's third American commercial was the David Pastor Nick Cold. Oh, yeah, the Duncan commercial.

To me, it's only, it's either $5 foot long or Adina Mansell or the two choices. Yeah, the $5 foot long wasn't awful for me because while I had not. never seen that. We do have like the $5 foot long campaign in Canada, so I'd heard the jingle before. This was just an especially annoying version of something I'd seen, whereas the, the Edina-Benzell thing was, like I said in the piece, when I actually sat down to watch for the first time, it felt like, like I didn't see John Wick until it had been out for a couple years. And I remember sitting down and being like, there's no way this is going to live up to the hype. And it did. And I feel like this did too, because the Tara-Tera song has been in my head for now 48 hours, like on a constant loop.

Don't. Do you mean Tara-Tara, look good or go with a fresh cup of Joe? I've taken my headphones off. I can't read. Following her dreams into tax attorney. Yeah, it's an accursed commercial. It's fucking horrible. Hey, I have a question, though.

Both countries are like telling each other that their ads aren't that bad. They're like, oh, ours are way worse than yours. What are you talking about? It's because you haven't seen them 100 times. And that's the amazing thing about the Terra ad is I've seen it. I watched it once and then a second and a third time with Sean. And I haven't watched it since. And I never will.

And it's still stuck in my head. Like I, some of the years you have to watch 100 times to really get the full effect. But oh my Lord, I now get why you're all so cranky all the time. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's other reasons, too. I want to pause on something real quick. You mentioned that you have $5 foot longs in Canada. This has not seen the square with the metric system, sir. Explain yourself. You wouldn't think it works with the conversions either, but yeah, no, we, it's not the like $5 third of a meter. Yeah, we don't. It would be, hold on, it would be one foot. is defined as

0.3048 meters. So a quick back of the napkin using my calculator function on my computer here times wait, so that's one foot.

So it's, yeah, so it's zero, it would be 0.3048 long. Correct. meter long. Yep. Yeah, you don't want that. Yeah, it's a little wordy,

so we just, Where does Subway fit in the pantheon of food in Canada? Because I don't understand why you would go there if you have Tim Hortons to grab a sandwich at. It's pretty ubiquitous. We've got that. We've got a bunch of sub places. We've got Mr. Sub, which I think is more of a Canadian thing. That name again is Mr. Sub.

Yeah, exactly. It's pretty creative stuff. So, yeah, it's, I mean, Tim Hortons, you can get a sandwich, but it takes forever. and they're not all that great. So it's... But again, you can get a fucking donut sandwich value meal, which is, again, my favorite thing about the importance. If you happen to pick the one food item that they actually have that day,

like, you stand in line, and then you go to the front, you're like, ham sandwich, and they're like, no ham, and you're like, hmm, chicken soup. They're like, nope, not today. Nope, right. It's the cheese sketch from Money Python, except you're trying to just get some lunch. And then you just walk out there with a pack of 20 timbits. And you're like, I guess I'm eating this for lunch today. All right.

Oh, yeah. Or you walk the five feet to the next Tim Hortons and see if they have. Also possible. Yeah. Great. What do you have to plug, sir? That was pretty much it. All right.

I wrote other stuff. I got a mailbag tomorrow. But that's, yeah, that's the main one. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Ryan, we assume, is back next week if the Antifa plane has landed. and we go to the Patreon and listen to the Mailbag. And if you haven't, go to the Patreon and check out the Hockey Chopped episode. It's really good.

Thanks to everybody for listening and supporting the show. We will talk you next week. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, eats and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense.

Oh, both