Puck Soup - Going Ham

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

The boys discuss Dougie Hamilton's potential departure from Carolina, Jack Eichel trade talk, Gerard Gallant signing with the Rangers and the Kraken's plans. Plus, breaking down the Knights vs. Habs and Islanders vs, Lightning, bad Stanley Cup commercials, Kool-Aid Man vs. Punchy, and the best and worst things to do at the beach. Sponsored by Manly Bands!

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wichenski at ESPN, and I am much less wet than I was yesterday walking around Tampa, which was very humid. I'm Ryan Lambert. It rained yesterday in Boston, so I got wet walking the dog, but it's regular.

Sean McAnew, the athletic, completely dry. As one does, and you're in Puck Suit. If I'm a little punchy, I got up really early to fly back to New York this morning from Tampa after game two between the Islanders and the lightning. A little punchy, where are you freaking Leo Komerov, right? You watched that game last night? He was trying to pull that shit after every whistle. Did you know, isn't Punchy the nickname of the Kool-Aid guy?

Isn't that his official name is Punchy? I don't know. I'm going to find out if that's canonical. Punchy, cool, cool, Kool-Aid. Okay, according to this, Um, hold on. There's a, there's a thing that says, oh shit.

I fuck. Hold on. This is going to blow your mind. Oh, boy. Kool-Aid man. His name is Kool-Aid man. Punchy? Oh, that's the Hawaiian punch guy, right?

Hawaiian punch. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That would make sense. Like, even though Kool-Aid is technically punch, Kool-Aid man is Kool-Aid man. Punchy is punchy. Yeah, I mean, that does not.

blow my mind. It did not live up to the billing. Sean, who wins in a fight? Punchy or Kool-Aid man? I mean, Kool-Aid man can go through walls, so he's obviously not as fragile as the fact that he's made out of glass would suggest. I think punchy's only chances that

Kool-Aid man shockmasters it at some point and then he can just take him out afterwards. Well, I feel like punchy's thing is always set up with like, how about a Hawaiian punch? And they say, sure. And he goes, like he punches them. Right. But like you say to the Kool-Aid man, how about a Hawaiian punch?

He goes, I'm made out of liquid, dude. I'm fine. Yeah. I don't need any more poured in here. This is, you're saying the whole thing is that the Kool-Aid man would have to agree to a Hawaiian punch in order for punch. unleash the fury. That does seem to be his gimmick, yeah. Right.

I guess I can see that being a flaw in his plan. I don't think the Kool-Aid man would require Hawaiian punch in any way. He's not a thirsty guy. Well, also, it's the inferior brand in the eyes of Kool-Aid man. Sure. Right? Yeah, he's not going to turn his back on, like, his family to enjoy a Hawaiian punch. Yeah, like, if there was a guy named Captain Coke and you're like, how about a Pepsi?

And he's like, leave me alone. I'm doing rails. I was just going to say, talking about certain hockey teams in the 80s, maybe. Oh, my goodness. Uh-oh. The boys in the bus, if you will. Speaking of hockey, Lightning and Islanders, it's hard for me to gauge how people feel about this series being in the arena, where people were kind of bored outside of when the Lightning were winning.

How did it play on TV, these games, these first two games? Punchy, I think I would say These are reasonably good games I mean, without at the risk of Starting chapter 100 This whole thing with the Islanders The Islanders are more fun to watch When they're trailing

Because we all know when they're ahead Especially on the road They can choke the life out of the game And when they're trailing You kind of sit there and go Oh, they're a defensive team They won't be able to catch up. And then they open it up.

You're kind of like, oh, wait, these guys can play that way too. They just choose not to when they don't need to. So I enjoyed that game last night. Yeah, last night was real fun. Game one, maybe not so much. Yeah. I was looking at their numbers, and I was trying to find an illustration for them being a more engaged offensive team this year than they were last.

year in the bubble. And their goals per game are definitely up, right? Well, they got to play Tristan Jari this year. Right, but that's the thing. They got to play Tristan Jari. And so what I was surprising to me was that their high danger scoring chances per 60 was significantly higher last year in the bubble than it is this year, which I would not have guessed, because I feel like they've been a lot more aggressive offensively, but I don't think the numbers support that.

Maybe I just... They were trailing more in the bubble last year. So maybe that's it. Maybe they had to kind of turn it up. It's score effects. Honestly, like, Islander fans have really latched onto the goals per game in the playoffs so far this year as their evidence that anyone who suggests that the team is even a little bit boring, clearly have never watched them, etc., etc. But the reality is this team's been outside the top 20 and goals scored for three straight years. Barry Trots didn't come into this year's playoffs and suddenly go,

you know what, guys, let's change up the whole style. You know, we've been really good for three years without scoring a lot, playing defensively, but let's just mix it up and play completely differently in the playoffs. It's still the same team. They had a few more pucks go in, and yeah, that's pretty much the Tristan Jari effect. But I will say, you know, the Islanders, there is, there are defensive teams, and most defensive teams are pretty boring to watch. watch when they're playing defensively, the Islanders aren't awful to watch even when they're

in that kind of shutdown mode because it's almost an aggressive style of defense to some extent. The problem is they're so good at it that the other team doesn't do anything. So they end up carrying the full load for entertainment value because the other team just can't get anything going because they're so good at shutting them down. And that's what happened in game one. Yeah, game one was that, where the lightning couldn't complete a pass and there was no cohesion and then any power plays and... Yeah, the Islanders style when they're when they're leading or, yeah, when they're leading or even when the game is tied is like the denial of, you know, opportunity and then they try to counterattack. Whereas, like Sean said, they can really fucking open it up if they need to.

and last night they needed to because they conceded early. And, you know, that's why last night's game was fun. It was because the Islanders were like, oh, shit, we actually have to, like, get more engaged offensively and get in on the forecheck and stuff like that. What are you more sick of Montreal and or the Islanders are bad for hockey if they win takes or the lightning are $18 million over the cap takes? Definitely the latter. Definitely the latter.

better. Yeah, for sure. I mean, first of all, this, this, the Islanders and especially Montreal being bad for hockey, that's a perfectly legitimate conversation we should be having. This league has been in an entertainment crisis for two decades. So the idea that having two defensive style teams meet in the final would, might be bad, especially in a league where 20 of the 32 GMs just run to copy whatever the team that last one the Stanley Cup did and build their team that way. I think that's a perfectly valid conversation to have. I get that if you're an Islander fan or an Aps fan, you're sick of it and you don't care, which you shouldn't. But for the rest of us, it's absolutely on the table.

The Lightning thing, I mean, they've followed the rules. If you don't like the rules, then complain about the rules. But don't blame Tampa for doing, it's not even like they've found. some crazy loophole that no one had ever thought of. This happened years ago with Patrick Kane. We all know that this is how the rules work. So they played according to the rules that the league is laid out. I don't see why anyone has a problem with the lightning.

Be mad at the league for once again having crappy rules if you want to, but the lightning haven't done anything wrong here. Well, no, they haven't, and the Islanders did the same thing in the trade deadline, because they had Anders Lee go on long-term injured reserve and they were able to acquire Colpal Mary and Travis Zajack through that salary exemption. If Anders Lee, who's skating now, comes back and plays in the Stanley Cup final, well, guess what? That's just, that's just the brakes. You know, they, they, it worked out nice for them. Well, I mean, I think that's kind of a disingenuous portrayal of the bogus argument that it's, that it's not fair. is because the argument is that, like, Anders Lee got hurt midway through the season.

It's not like they were like, okay, well, Andersley is out for the year, wink, you know, like, that was the problem with Kuturov, was that they were like, oh, yeah, he's going to be ready around the time the playoffs start. And then he starts skating three months before the playoffs start. Oh, he's not, he's not, like, ready, though. You know, like, that's obviously everybody's issue with it. And, like, I see where they're coming from, but also, like, I don't give a shit. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to relitigate the whole thing. But I do want to hear, though, like, your thoughts. Because the NHL says that they investigated the Kuturoff thing, right?

And the NHL has not necessarily been a league to look the other way on salary cap violations, you know, historically. Well, well, so, like, that's the part I'm having trouble squaring. Do you think that they just kind of looked the other way because they're sort of okay with this being a loophole? Or did they not vet them? Like, where does the NHL come into the equation of Kuturov maybe being ready to play, but they still pulled off this gambit? I think it's that, you know, they could make a reasonable argument. He's not close to 100%.

He can skate. He can practice. But is he ready to, is he in game shape? No. And then the NHL's like, well, well, you know, what can we really say? What can we do? Yeah, right. You know, like, if they say, if they say, well, this is what the recovery timeline is for this surgery

and it just happens to line up with one day before the playoffs start, then, yeah, maybe he is ready early because, you know, these guys are in good shape and all that kind of stuff, but also, you know, I think people just need to fucking get over it would be my noise. To answer the question of why the league seems okay with this, keep in mind, this league, for the most part, is when it comes to rules and rules enforcement, is run by the general managers. And the GMs are concerned almost entirely for their own job and their own job security and not what's best for the league. So every GM looks at this situation and goes, I could have a player. who's hurt. I could stash a player on LTIR and get around the cap that way. I don't want this rule to go away. I might use it someday versus when the Toronto Maple Leafs try to open their fancy privately built

practice arena, a whole bunch of GMs who don't have a privately built practice arena go, oh, I can't do that. That's not fair. We need to stop that. And that's, you know, that's where it comes from. It's just, it's no more. And you're, and you're, and you're, and you're, and you're, right. Like, Greg, you nailed it. The people, I know people are like, well, how come, you know, how could Kutra be too hurt to play the last few weeks of the regular season, but healthy enough to play as soon as the playoffs start? It's because, like most players, pretty much all of the time, there's a gray area between

like too hurt to play, but also I could play if I needed to. Like, I could play if it was the playoffs, but I probably shouldn't. an enormous number of players fit into that category to give any given time. So what can the league do? They can look at a guy and the doctor might say like, yeah, you know what? He could play tonight, but I wouldn't recommend it.

The NHL can't force that guy to go out there. Right. The NHL has to take the doctors. Or okay, he's not healthy enough to play. He's not 100% at least. And then the playoffs come around and the team goes, yeah, we're going to take the risk. Get out there.

There's no real way around it unless you want to drastically rework how the system works as far as what's considered injured or not. Right. Now, Sean, I wanted to switch gears here. You have written extensively on goal-tunter interference. What the fuck in game two with Braden Point getting cross-checked into Semi-on-Varlemoff and getting a penalty for it? Yeah, yeah, that was great. That, no.

I mean, it had nothing to do with goalie interference, thankfully, because there wasn't a goal on the play. But it's a blown call. It's, uh, I mean, It happened. It happens very fast. The officials are encouraged to protect the goaltenders. And, you know, we have seen plays in the past where guys just go full speed towards the net, out of control, smash into the goalie. In some cases, injure the goalie and don't get a penalty for it and everyone gets mad about that. So I kind of get where the call came from last night, especially if, you know,

you know, if you don't quite notice the, the cross check that obviously is what's in there. But clearly, you watch it on replay, that should not have been a penalty. If it was a penalty on anyone, it should have been a penalty on the Islanders. And potentially could have been huge in the game.

Thankfully, thankfully, A, Tampa ended up winning and B, there was a blown call in the other direction that cost the Islanders a goal. So it kind of evened out and we laugh about it now instead of having a, you know,

some sort of league-wide commission and new replay. and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. The hockey gods set the universe back in balance. I don't know what it is about. I don't know what it is. Exactly. I don't know what it is about that play that makes me so angry.

Like I don't remember a call that made me angrier than seeing that happen in game two. Like, one, because it was so clear that he was cross-checked in DeVarlamoff. Two, because it's a complete misreading of the rule book. And I guess three, when they went to the lightning bench and explained why they gave point a penalty, they said he put his arms up to hurt Varlam off. That's the real problem. It never even happened. Yeah. It's one thing to miss something. It's another thing to invent something. And that's the part I really have a problem with this, this idea that they, they called something that wasn't there. The contact on its own

was more than enough for a penalty if he's not directed in. So if you just say, hey, we didn't, Either we didn't see the cross-check or we didn't think that was enough. Because that happens sometimes too, right? There's guys who get a little tap and go, oh, guess I'm smashing into this goalie now because I'm allowed to do it and you're not. I could accept all of that. Even as a bad call, I could say, you know what, bad calls happen. But when they start inventing stuff, that's where you can't defend it anymore.

Let me ask this before you mentioned something, Lambert. Why do you think that we don't review too many men on the ice? Because it would be an absolute nightmare. Think through what that would look like if after every goal we got to go back to the last line change and say, was anybody outside of the five foot zone? It would be an absolute disaster. It would take so many goals off the board. You think offside is bad? This would be absolute nightmare scenario.

And that's even if you rewrote the rulebook. Because I think a lot of people don't understand that, like, the one that we saw last night, where the Islanders had had six guys on the ice, plus the seventh guy who was right at the bench, which that happens on every line change. So people need to stop saying there were seven guys on the ice. It was, there were six guys in the play. But the guy, the extra guy wasn't involved in the play in any way. And I don't think people understand. The rule book is actually pretty sketchy on that. The rule book basically says it's up to the officials.

to decide if that should warrant a too many men. There's no automatic, you know, like there is if the guy plays the puck or something. So, you know, as written now, you couldn't even do a review for it because it's still a subjective call. But even if you took that out and said it's an automatic penalty, if there's, oh, my Lord, you would be reviewing every line change that happened 50 seconds before a goal to see if Sidney Crosby jumped on when Malkin was six feet away from the bench instead of five. it would be an absolute disaster.

Yeah, and the other thing, it's like the offside thing where it's like, well, was, you know, was his skate one inch off the ice 48 seconds before the puck went? And then, like, it would be that exact same shit. But to Sean's point, even worse, because, you know, there's a lot of goals that get scored while, while there's a line change. Okay. So. How are we feeling about the series overall?

I picked the Lightning and 7. I thought maybe that the two teams would hold serve on Home Ice. Now I'm thinking they both split. Lightning win five, Islanders win six, Lightning Win 7. Where were you on the series? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's tough to say because like you go into NASA and nobody wins there that isn't the Islanders, right? Like that's just kind of how it feels. I know the Bruins won there, but it's like, oh, no, they just, you know, when they get last change, fucking forget about it is kind of how it feels.

And so, yeah, I mean, obviously you kind of would like the Islanders' chances in any given hockey game against 95% of the league. So, like, it's totally reasonable that they, that they split. I still think they win the series, but that they split the series. I don't know. You know, it's tough because the islanders are really good at the thing the islanders do. And that's shutting down top guys. Again, you know, maybe right up until they can't. This is kind of the interesting season in so far as my new theory on the Islanders is that they, like, teams figure out the gimmick, basically, as the season goes on, like when you see a,

a starting pitcher for like the fourth time in a season in Major League Baseball, where it's like, oh, okay, yeah, we get this now. And, you know, the Islanders kind of get worse as the season progresses every year, you know, or at least under trots, I should say. That's kind of been their pattern. And so, you know, the fact that they, you know, the fact that they, you know, the lightning haven't played them this year. I wonder how much that affects things,

just because it's like, oh, yeah, we don't get the rep. We didn't get the reps in the regular season to kind of figure out what they're throwing at us. And I don't know, maybe they figured it out after game one because, you know, once that second period got going, it looked like easy sledding for the lightning. But I don't know. Yeah, I mean, the counter argument to that, I guess, would be it really wasn't. It wasn't easy until they got the second goal and had the lead because the Islanders are a different team when they're not leading or not tied. And they got that second goal with six guys on the ice.

So maybe if you're the Islanders, you go, all right, we're still feeling pretty good. Like I picked the Islanders to win the series. I think it's going to be a battle. Six or seven absolutely sounds right. I haven't seen anything that changes my view. but I do think it's going to be I think the Islanders are a team that can grind the lightning down and find

enough on the offensive side when they need it to pull this off and the first two games didn't make me doubt that but it's it's going to be a grind and they will have to be near perfect Islander hockey to do this because Tampa's just so loaded

yeah the reason I picked the Lightning 2 and the reason I picked him in the previous two series was the notion of even if you can keep their top players in check, there always seems to be another hero on the roster somewhere. You're Ross Colton's. Fucking Jan Ruda wiring a shot like his ally of Frady. Boy, that shot was fucking unbelievable. It was incredibly, like, what is that?

Dude didn't score a goal the entire regular season. Hadn't scored a goal in the playoffs and fucking wires a shot like that from the That was actually, I think they said on the NBC broadcast, the first goal scored by a lightning defenseman in the playoffs. Yeah. Through two rounds. Like that's crazy. And then, you know, headman goes out and gets the fourth one when again the game's

starting to look a little dicey. Oh, on that headman goal, the very funny thing that happened was Scott Mayfield shoved two guys into the goalie. And then the puck goes in and Mayfield looks at the ref like, come on, that's cold tender interference. And it's like, hey, if it worked once, like, respect, dude, that's, that's, that's just gamesmanship. I love it. I, I, I, I'm not super confident in my lightning pick because, like you said, the islanders are pesky. And I also think it's really hard when, you know, I've been in Nassau now for two rounds and, like, trying to walk into that place when you have every meathead on Long Island giving you the finger.

Yeah, but you shouldn't be wearing your devil's jersey. That's part of it, I think. Speaking good, be heads of fingers, today's episode of Puck Soup was sponsored by Manly Bands. Manly Bands is... No, no, no, no. Don't get... Sean? Sean? As long as you stretched before that reach, I respect it.

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That was almost a better transition. Yeah, 100%. Not even close. Game two is tonight. Let's start off with something that Eric Engels reported, which was that Mark Bergevan apparently has a contract extension in hand based on this run for Montreal. I mean, is he just GM for life now, Montreal? He's GM for life as long as he gets out of the first or second round every five years or so, yeah.

Game one was a humbling experience for our heroes from Montreal, who graduated from the North Division and took on a team that is quite good. Yeah. Yeah, and that eliminated what many considered to be the best team in hockey. I suppose we should probably touch on the avalanche for a second. Sean, now I'm just thinking out loud in your shoes right now. Like, all right, we've done all we can do. We've done all the game planning.

And maybe just, you know, like, fuck it. We'll just go in next year and not think and just win this thing when we don't think that much. Am I on the right path with all of this? Like maybe this guy's just thinking too much, Sean? Yeah, if you went in doubt in the NHL, assume somebody is thinking too much. That's not bad.

That's not a bad call. I don't, I think the, I think the avalanche losing, Ryan, I love you by the way, I think the avalanche losing is ultimately going to be great for them. Because now they've experienced some heartache. Now they've been. What was last year? Last year was not heartache, sir. Last year was an excuse. When you have Michael Hutchinson starting game seven against the team.

against the team that eventually played for the Stanley Cup, you walk away from that series knowing that you lost, but also feeling that you're a victim of circumstance. There is no circumstance in this loss against Vegas. You won the first two games of the series. You're at full strength. Your goal is healthy. You think you've got the better team.

Your number two center is suspended. Your number two center is suspended. That's true. Well, what I'm saying is, it's not like Michael Hutchinson in a game seven. We don't need to fucking. think about it that much. It's like, okay, we, we lost to the team that tied us in the regular season and was from the same division as a, like, the playing field was pretty even, and they just lost because that's hockey. And you don't have to fucking think about it that much.

The real problem for them is... We can't do that, though. You know this, Ryan. This is, at some point in the NHL, we just cannot ever say that a team lost because the other team was better or the other team played better or got the bounces or whatever it is. It's always got to be a test of character. It's always got to be about who, like even when the lightning loss game won and John Cooper's like, well, they executed their game plan and we just didn't show up to do it. Like really? Wait, are we going to pretend that it's not a test of character? It's not only a test of character.

The majority of teams that win it. Like, if they don't, if they don't fucking win next year, It's not because, well, I guess they didn't fucking learn anything from last year. It's because, well... Of course it is. Look at the majority of Stanley Cup champions in the last fucking 30 years. And how many teams had to go through absolute bullshit before they won. Going all the way back to the miracle of Manchester and the fucking Gretzky Oilers, you know, the capitals of the penguins, the Bruins with the Flyers series.

Yeah. And then look at how many teams went through something like that and didn't win anything. I mean, this is the NHL. we're told every year one team wins the Stanley Cup and they had a good season and everyone who didn't win the Stanley Cup had this heartbreak and misery and everything. So yeah, you're always going to be able to look at some team that wins and say at some point in the recent past, they suffered some sort of, except for the ones who didn't. Like the Blackhawks didn't make the playoffs forever. They made the playoffs one year, went straight to the conference finals lost and the next year they start a mini dynasty of three cups. I'm not saying character doesn't matter and compete and all that sort of stuff.

It's not the only thing. I'm so tired of how we've internalized this idea that every playoff series, especially in hockey, is between two completely equally matched teams and just whoever tries hardest will win. Yeah, and if you lose it's because you didn't. It's kindergarten thinking. But it's not. If you try your hardest, you will always succeed. Yes, it is.

You're confusing trying hard, which I agree is a bullshit notion because they're all trying hard. They all want to win the country. Cup with attention to detail and execution. That's the difference. It's not trying hard. It's paying attention to the details and not making the little mistakes that add up to you losing the series. That's where the education comes in.

So, but I mean, what's the argument then? The teams that win don't make little mistakes? Yes. There's little mistakes on every shift. They make fewer little mistakes than the teams that lose. Absolutely. Now, is there luck involved? Sure.

Are there injuries involved? Sure. Is it just some teams have better players and other teams? Sure. But if you go back and look at that Vegas-Colorado series, at the last four games that series, do you think in any of those games, it's a situation where Vegas makes exponentially more little mistakes

along the way than does Colorado? Come on. No, not exponentially. Both teams make a lot of little mistakes, and then at the end, after we know the result of who wins, we get to go back and go, I guess that team made more mistakes. They better learn not to do that next time.

Right. And, yeah, it doesn't have to be exponential. This is a game where every fucking, or a league where every fucking, game is three to two. So it's one mistake. And the team who makes fewer is the team that ultimately usually wins. I don't understand. I don't understand how this is even an argument. Like, what's the last shitty fucking sloppy team that won the Stanley Cup? Well, that's what I mean, that's, but look at where you're putting, look at where you're putting the bar then, right? Like, yeah, you're right, bad teams don't win. But this idea that

any team wins the cup as long as they just clean up the details and really put and show up on time and all these other cliches that we skip right past all of the questions of who had the best players who was best coached who had the game plan without question luck with injury all this stuff we skip past all of that and we just talk about who just why it's all a morality play even this you know attention to detail because the implication there is that some teams just I guess don't want it bad enough to really clean up the details, didn't do the homework, just thought they could show up and what. That's not what I'm saying. Then, then you're not the one I'm complaining about because. No, but I think the people that you're complaining about, I think the people you're complaining about are saying the same thing I do, which is that it's not about like they didn't. It's not about like them not doing their homework or some shit. It's that when the pressure hits, when they get punched in the mouth, they lose any semifference. of paying attention to the details.

They lose any semblance of confidence and competence in their game. Look at the fucking Leafs. Like, how many times does this have to happen? Yeah, yeah. So look at any team, right? You say when they get punched in it. Every team gets punched in the mouth every playoff game. So yeah, by your logic, at the end of the series,

you can look at the team that won that series and go, I guess when they got punched in the mouth, they did better than when the other team got punched in the mouth. Well, sure. And so therefore, wow, what a surprise. The team that does the best, they get punched in the mouth wins every playoff series. And it's completely meaningless because we're all we're,

we're only ever filling this stuff in after we know the answers, right? Yes. Nobody after, nobody after. It's whole analysis. This team's doing great when they get punched in the mouth. They're clearly the best team. We wait until they've won the series. And it's the same as like,

another thing we do it with is like how, how tight the group was, how good that room was. We wait until the playoffs are over. And then we point to the team that won and go, you know who had the best room? room, those guys. So either having a great room is crucially important because it always leads to a Stanley Cup or it's nonsense and we're just assigning it after the fact after the whole And the other thing, the other thing to say is like Greg, Greg brought up the, the, or maybe

Sean did, somebody brought up the like 80s oilers and oh, that, you know, they figured out what it took to beat the Islanders. And it's like, yeah, they all were at the bottom of their age and curve because they were like 21, 22 years old. And everybody on that Islander's team was like 34. So the team with, you know, the best player, arguably in the history of hockey and like four or five other Hall of Famers, when they all turned like 23, 24 years old, it became a little bit easier to beat a team that went from being 33 to 34. And the 95 Devils and the 97-98 Red Wings and the fact that the lightning of one, six straight players. 798 Redway. How many Hall of Famers did that team have?

And Penguins be losing the Detroit and coming back in being Detroit the next year. And the Boston Bruins blowing a 3-0 series lead to the Flyers and then coming back and winning the Cup. And the Vancouver Canucks losing the most heartbreaking Stanley. Oh, wait, no, then they came back and that didn't. And the Maple Leafs having all those heart. Yes, it is complete coincidence. The Maple Leafs didn't do anything. Let's talk about that fucking Bruins team.

What was the famously different thing about that Bruins team versus the one the year before? What, Nathan Horton? Tuka Rask and not Tim Thomas. Famously. That's the whole deal with Tukkarask. The year they won the cup? What? What are you talking?

Tuka Rask was the goal series. Tuka Rask was the goalie. Taurus was the goalie when they blew it. Yeah, Tuka Rass was the goalie when they blew it. Then Tim Thomas becomes the starter. Has the best season of any goalie ever, and they win the cup. And it's like, well, this is truly the most bizarre. I wanted it in the show.

This idea that you don't learn anything in the fucking playoffs. I cannot fucking fathom this. It's bizarre if you restate it to something that I'm not saying. I'm not saying you don't learn anything in the playoffs. And I'm not saying that compete level and attentionate and all the other things don't matter. I'm saying that we have internalized this idea that it is virtually all that matters. And we skip right past differences in skill, roster construct. construction, X's and O's coaching, all the things that every other sport talks about all the time.

Hockey has just turned, and us, media, fans, everybody, have turned it into this morality play where whoever deserves it most always wins. And if you don't win, it's because you didn't deserve it. And you need to go away and figure out what you did to make you not deserve it and stop doing that thing. And it's nonsense. This is when we tell five-year-olds they can be anything they want as long as they try super hard. It's the same stuff in the NHL, and it drives me crazy. I completely agree with you that if it's a who wants it more thing, it's stupid.

But I'm just at a fucking loss out, like, fucking Lamberdose over here being like, if you're just super talented, you'll figure it out at some point. Like, what do you think the figuring it out part is? I think, I think, like, where do you think that comes from? Don't we accept that this is like a highly random sport, right? Like, is it just not possible that the Colorado Avalanche had five bad games in a row or four bad games in a row? And that would be hard for them to repeat if you gave them similar conditions. How, you know, however many times you want to say it takes for them to...

Okay, so how do you have a bad game? Fucking calls go against you. Pucks go against you. Like, calls and pucks go against you, and that's a bad game? So it's just four games, a complete variance based on where the puck is bouncing? I mean, yeah, you're explaining how hockey works, yes. Okay. All right, I'm sure. Maybe that's just it.

Maybe there's absolutely nothing to what every single championship team tells you in the fucking action. Is it not in their best fucking interest to be like, oh, it's actually because we're cool and nice. Yeah, no shit. Exactly. You can't ask the teams. Where does it come from cool and nice? I'm talking about the actual fucking analysis from the people that win and tell you that we have a fucking, Greg. They have a best of fucking interest and saying that it's because they're.

And then come back. This is like asking C. CEOs, how they got to where they are, and they'll always tell you, I worked just so hard, and I got up and I, you know, went for a jog every morning. And it's like, it's, again, there's an element of it. But Greg, you're picking all these, you're cherry picking examples. Again, every year, there's many teams that have their season end on a spectrum somewhere from very disappointing to completely heartbreaking. So, yes, you're going to be able to find some cup winners who at some point in the recent past have lost in that way. But you also can't, if that's your argument, hand-wave away the fact that the Blackhawks never went through that. The Kings never really went through that. They made the playoffs twice in many years, lost in the first round. Well, I just gave you five couplets in the last decade.

Why are the exceptions the rules? That's, I mean, where the fuck does that come from? I'm saying, I'm not saying there's exceptions and then there's people that applies to, maybe it's random. Maybe it's completely random. fucking learn from losing in the first round. The capitals didn't learn from losing two years in a row to the penguins. You're fucking insane? To a man, they'll tell you they did.

Every player learns constantly about everything. That can't be what adds up to winning a championship. And again, if you can pick half the cup winners and say, they must have learned something from this. And then the other half you go, I'm not really sure where it would come from from them. Maybe we're just talking about some randomness and we're just slapping a storyline onto it because it's it's satisfying to us to imagine that this is i mean part of the reason we do this is because the alternative which is to say this sport is way

more based on randomness and chance than we like to admit is not very satisfying for fans and it's certainly not the media if you got to write stories about it nobody wants to read a story about how well this team's just been unlucky a few years and and the lightning the lightning are the perfect example right where it's like okay uh you know they lost They got swept in this stunning fashion. And it's like, okay, but how many times, if you just had those two teams, those exact same two teams somehow play the exact same rosters, nobody's getting suspended, nobody's getting hurt, blah, blah, blah.

If you played those two teams against each other a hundred times, how many do you think the lightning, or let me put it this way, how many times do you think Columbus wins four out of seven? Not just four in a row. Four out of seven. It depends. Do the Lightning know how to handle adversity at this point or no? What are you laughing at? Like, that's, did you watch the fucking series?

Oh, boy. Okay. But so here's, but even Greg, if you're going to do that, so where did the Blue Jackets learn how to handle adversity? Yep, that's right. They didn't. They're, they're the underdogs. They're not facing any pressure in the series.

I would argue. I cover the series. I cover the series. Like, what do you want? That went all in on. We could, we could, we could, we could, we could apply. our bullshit pop psychology to it or we could talk about what actually happened. That's exactly what I'm arguing for. Let's talk about what happened and not bullshit pop psychology

on this stuff. That's exactly what I'm arguing for. Yeah, the blue jackets took it to them. They lightning lost their shit and got swept. Kuturov got suspended, which probably had nothing to do with the outcome. The Kuturov suspension, right? It had nothing to do with the- point. Ryan, that's the fucking point. He gets suspended by doing something dumb. It's about not paying attention to detail. It's about making mistakes and how they all add up. Like, that's the whole point. I'm just fucking baffled at this. I truly am. Like, yeah, I agree. There's variance. There's luck involved. There's talent involved all the shit. But completely discounting what the people that went on these fucking journeys will tell you is a reason why they won is fucking insane.

Again, nobody's completely discounting. I'm saying we vast. vastly overrate. One of you is very much the discounting it. One of you is like if you played the Blue Jackets a hundred times, what happens? But it's not 100 times. It's four games and you have to the sample that you're given. Because it's four games, these outcomes are highly randomized.

Right, that's why they didn't blow up the team. Like, that's part of it too. That's why the Bruins didn't blow up their team after they lost the flyers. Like, there is an acknowledgement that there's a certain randomness involved, but it's not to discount the lessons you learn from it. which I think is what you're doing. Well, right. Okay. So, like, let's, I suppose, let's say that I think the lessons aren't learned by individual players or even like the players collectively. I think, I think the lessons learned are by management, which is to say like, oh, why did the lightning have no fucking problem with the blue jackets the next year other than the blue jackets weren't that fucking good? They also went out and got better depth players, right? And so by improving an already great roster, they therefore improved their chances to win a round or a game or the whole fucking Stanley Cup.

So certainly. But also the other thing the Lightning did was not put themselves in a position where they had to feel the same levels of adversity they felt in the previous season. They won game one, epically. They lose that game. It might have been a different conversation about them. And they'll be the first ones to tell you that. Right, but again, they would, they would like have the benefit. Like, it is to their benefit that you believe actually we did the thing that gives us virtually.

Holy shit. Or you just listen to what the people that were involved in the situation tell you and believe that they don't have a fucking alter your motive to lie to you about what made them win. It's not, it's not that they believe that shit too. Like, you don't, you think like the people at Goldman Sachs are like, oh yeah, we actually, Why are we going to Wall Street? We're talking about fucking sports. Like, I'm just telling you what they say. If you think they're all delusional, every fucking team that wins is delusional, maybe that's

a problem with you because these are all the people that are experiencing these journeys. They're, I mean, first of all, let's stop talking about them as journeys. I mean, this is, it's, they played a tournament. They played, it's sports. They played a bunch of games. This is, you know, with this idea that it's this emotional journey. I don't know. Like, look.

Holy shit. Pretend for a second. Pretend, because I'm not saying this is the case, but pretend that hockey was actually completely random. Success in the playoffs at least, which is completely random. It was an utter coin flip. Imagine your team lost five years and then you won it all. What do you think would be more satisfying as a story to tell yourself? Do you think you'd go, well, you know, we had random bad luck before. We had good luck this year and that's how it goes sometimes. Or do you think we'd be more satisfying as a story to tell yourself? Do you think you'd go, well, you know, we had random bad luck before and we had good luck this year and that's how it goes sometimes? Or do you think we'd think we'd be better to tell yourself, you know what, there was something wrong those last few years, but we fixed it this year. And something changed. And we all improved as people and as men this year. And that's why we want, of course you're going to go with that explanation, especially when it's being spoon fed to you by media who are desperate to hear you say it. Yes, the media. I'm in the media too, man. Like when the lightning won the cup, there was an acknowledgement that they got breaks that went their way that in other cases they didn't. but it was also an acknowledgement that they finally learned how to fucking defend on a championship level.

Like, that's what they would, that's what they did. How many times in a row did they go to like a conference final or, or maybe not in a row, but like in a short period of time did they go to a conference final and, you know, they went to the final in 2015. They went to the conference final. They went to the conference final. That's right. Yeah.

No, they made it to the cup final. They lost. And they lost in the same manner to the penguins in the capitals losing game six when they had a chance to close them out and then losing in game seven, which of course is just super random variance coin flip puck bouncy bullshit. And it doesn't have anything to do with like not really understanding how to close out a series. What does that mean understand how to close out a series? These guys have been playing hockey their whole life. They don't know how to win a game. Clearly.

And yeah, and they've never played in a high stakes game at a level that isn't the NHL and all that. kind of stuff. Yeah. No, like, obviously, they're just sitting there going, damn, if only there was a way I knew how to score a goal, but me, Stephen Stamco's, I just can't figure, I can't crack this one tonight. Well, first of all, Stephen Stankoast probably isn't playing if it's a playoffs. Let's be honest. Good point. I got you there. All right, let's get off this conversation. I'm happy that everybody who likes the yelling got to hear something. But anyway, so, but anyway, what the, what does this circle back to is the Mark Bergevin extension, right? Correct. Because it's like, is that where this started? No, but it is related in so far as you go like, well, does anybody, did anybody coming into this season say, well, look, obviously the Canadians are one of the four best teams in the league and, and or even top eight, whatever, they finished 18th in points percentage this year. Okay.

and now that they've completely fluked their way into a conference final or league semi-final, whatever we're going to call it this year, they're like, well, this obviously validates everything Mark Bergevin has ever done. And there's something different about this Canadians team. And it's like, right, yeah, they got to play exclusively Canadian teams for 56 games. No, I'll tell you right now, the narrative up here is that Mark Bergervan built a team that was designed. for the playoffs and he kind of knowingly let them struggle through the regular season because they were secretly going to be much better when the playoffs started. So just in case you're wondering the level of myth-making.

We're seeing the same shit with, oh, Carrie Price, actually, he doesn't try anymore in the regular season because the games don't matter. But once the playoffs start, and it's like, motherfucker, this guy was so bad in the regular season, they almost missed the playoffs in Canada. Like, that's how bad he was. And so the idea that he was like, yeah, I just, I, I can't be bothered to give a shit. And then barely get, this is the second year in a row where if they play a regular 82 game schedule, they probably don't make the fucking playoffs.

Last year, they almost had the same record as the Buffalo Sabres. And it's like, well, it's, it's because Carrie Price has not been sufficiently enticed to put a full effort for the regular season. And it's like, this seems like it would be a problem for them. Like, you would say, this is, this sucks that Carrie Price does this. But no, now it's a virtue because, again, they fucking totally fluked their way into, into a conference semifinal, or conference final where they're going to get their fucking brains bashed in.

Do you think that, uh, that Birch Van got the extension because he was smart enough to acquire Jake Allen because he knew Carrie Price doesn't give a shit about the regular season? Yeah, that's right. One of the worst goalie contracts in the league. He goes out and gets it. And it makes Kerry Price look worse by comparison to get one of the worst fucking clients. I think he got the extension because he went into the owner's office and said, hey, how about an extension and then flexed his biceps until his shirt exploded?

And the guy was like, yeah, have as many years as he want. What do you think Mark Bridgevance smells like? Expensive cologne. He seems like a big cologne guy. I've never been faked out more by something I assumed was an ad transition. I really have one ad. I was literally like, who's our new, we have like a cologne sponsor? Okay.

Do you think he smells like leather? Hmm. Sandalwood. Yeah. Well, like, so you're, I mean, you're thinking like a pungent French cologne. Not like old spice. Like something even more punch. Yeah, like a fancy one.

He's rich. It's not like Michelle Tarion where he just smelled like tobacco all the time. No, I mean, like, I saw Michelle Tarian sneaking outside to smoke cigarettes at the fucking Winter Classic. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. So it was fantastic. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't, I don't claim to know Mark Bergevin's nicotine intake.

Yeah, I don't know either. It also seems like you might be a clove of cigarette man versus, like, you. Tobacco. Anyway, Vegas is really good. Yeah. Two good lines. Two number one defensemen. But we're one game into this series, too. Like, I don't, I feel like we should have learned some lessons about getting ahead of ourselves, maybe in the last couple of reasons. Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I jokingly said like they're going to get their brains beat it. I think that this series is going to be a little closer than game one was. But with that having

been said, this isn't like a Vegas, Colorado thing where it's like, like, okay, well, you know, obviously they finished with the same point total in the regular season, and Colorado only got the president's trophy on a tiebreaker, blah, blah, blah, which, by the way, I think that sucks. I think tie breakers should only apply to, like, seating and not whether you win the president's trophy. But anyway, you know, I wonder to some extent how much we're now kind of retroactively going, well, look, anything can happen in the playoffs because look what happened between the two best teams in the league.

And it's like, yeah, this is the, if we want to say, second best team in the league versus the 18th best team in the league. And that, I think we have to say, is a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah, there's no question who the better team is. But the NHL, so. Yep. See what happens.

Gerard Gallant, hired by the New York Rangers, as their new head coach. I like it. I like it for where they are as a team right now. I think he's a good fit for that. Yeah, see, because it's interesting because I feel like they think this is maybe them stepping up

and being like, we're definitely a playoff team. And depending on what they do this summer and obviously things are going to change quite a lot league-wide because of the expansion draft, I don't know that I'm, I don't know that I'm totally convinced they're a playoff team next year, even with a guy who I think is a good coach. I don't know. I think it's interesting because this hire says, like, expectations are elevated, and I kind of say, you know, I believe me, I wasn't a big fan of Dave Quinn's an NHL head coach.

But, like, I don't know that Galant is going to make the difference between this team making or not making the playoffs. I think that's fair. I also think that it's a thing that's a thing where, like, at the very least, you'll be able to look at the Rangers and know what they are. Like, I felt like under Quinn, they didn't really, outside of the makeup of the roster of sort of being like young players and veteran players and what have you, like, what were the Rangers? Like, what style do they play?

What were they? Like, I feel like one of the things Galant does really well is he goes into a place and kind of imprint a little bit of personality and a little bit of cohesion on the roster that, like, Quinn never really had, I thought, with the Rangers. Well, I mean, the real problem with Quinn, and, you know, this is long been advertised or spoken about with respect to how the Rangers put a team on the ice every night is like, boy, he had his favorites, you know, and like, just, they were, they were so ready to give, and it's classic NHL shit to some point, but, like, oh, you, this 22-year-old player made a minor mistake

that led to a penalty? Well, he's benched for three games, and we've got to put this guy who sucks in the roster in his place and not putting guys who are, you know, high-skill players on the power play and all that. And so I think if Galant just, like, does a little bit more to optimize his player, well, his roster, but also, like, his player usage, I think that they can get a lot more mileage out of even the same guys, but I guess that remains to be seen.

Obviously, they just need to bring back Tony DiAngelo and everything will be fine. Galant's going to straighten them right out. You know what I can't wait for, by the way, is the fucking taxi jokes. Oh, you can't get a taxi. Oh, boy, here you go. Yeah. Yep. So Galant's off the market.

Let's talk about the cracking real quick. So you got your Rick Tocket, who's interviewed there a few years. times, and obviously Ron Francis is pretty familiar with Tocke. They played together. There's been a lot of talk about maybe they're waiting for Lane Lambert, the assistant coach to Barry Trots, who's been with Trots forever, to maybe be the head coach of the Cracken. Other than that, I don't know, man. The other theory that was going around, and it was with the Rangers, too, was that some teams were waiting on Rod Brindamore, and that the fact that the Rangers went ahead

suggests that Brindamore might actually be pretty much done. As far, when I say pretty much done, the contract is pretty much done. He's going to stay in Carolina for sure, as opposed to just mostly for sure, which is how it had been for the last few weeks. So that could also be an issue in Seattle as well. They may have been holding out to see if he was going to shake free. I was wondering if that was kind of a game of chicken where it's like they were both kind like Seattle and the Rangers were kind of looking at each other like,

oh, are they going to try to get Brindamore? And then the Rangers were just like, fuck it. Like, Galant's just as good. We'll go with him. That's fine. I mean, I'd rather, even if I thought Brindamore was the best coach, I'd rather have Galant in the bag than hope for Brindamore knowing that maybe Rick Tockeet is my plan B because of the gap.

Personally, I think the gap between Galant and Tockeet is. Pretty big. Significant. I agree. I checked in on Quenville, and it turns out what we all thought is true, which is that he's making a lot of money and he enjoys living in Florida. So I don't think that's going to happen. And then the Paul Maurice thing, I kept on coming back to it and thinking, man, that just

seems like maybe that's why they're waiting. And it just seems so obvious in the connection with Francis and Maurice. But he's got like a coaching job for life in Winnipeg, basically. Or a job for life with that organization, if maybe he's not the head. coach at some point, and I just think it's not going to happen. So it's so bizarre to me because this, I thought every coach in existence would have looked at what Galant did in Vegas and what Vegas did as a first year team with this expansion draft and been like, that's the most fun you could possibly have, like creating something in your own image, doing something new, having not,

not an ounce of weight of expectation on you, and having owners that are willing to spend so much money to be so good so quickly. And it just doesn't seem like that's materialized necessarily. in their coaching search, and I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure why. I think that the thing about there's no expectation, I think that's not true because of what Vegas did. Could be. Especially if Vegas wins the cup, like a week before Seattle's draft.

That's going to really mess with where the bar should be. And like, you know, I think that, again, from every indication we've gotten is that they're going to kind of try to, at least in the expansion, drive. go relatively cheap and then, you know, maybe see what happens with trades they can make happen because they'll have all this cap space and blah, blah, blah. And like, I think a big part of their job here is being like, we're not going to be able to be what Vegas was because that's kind of not our organizational approach necessarily. Like, you know, Vegas was like, we're going for it ASAP and also, you know,

know, they lucked into Mark Andre Fleury having a 930 season out of nowhere, 927, or whatever it was. And they have to be like, look, you have to understand that the odds that that happens again are not very good. Right. And that also affects the coaches where it's like, fuck, those are like weirdly big shoes to fill all of a sudden. Even though there's never been a coach that preceded me as the head coach in Seattle, Racken. I'm stepping into something here. Yeah, there are expectations for sure. All right, a couple more things here.

Dougie Hamilton, given permission to go find a trade for a little sign and trade action, looking for eight years. This very much feels like your classic, all right, take a look around and see if the grass is greener. And if you're wrong, well, you might still have a place here in Carolina. That's kind of how I think it feels. I don't know about you guys. Yeah, I agree.

I think that's what it is. I mean, we know Carolina's weird with contracts in general, but as far as pushing, trying to push down numbers, whether it's players or staff or Rod Brindamore or whatever it is. But yeah, I think this could be a case where Dougie Hamilton might be sitting there saying, I hit the market, I can get nine million a year. and Carolina's going, we'll give you something that starts with the number seven. And he's going, no, I'm a $9 million guy.

And they're going, are you though? And he goes, yeah, I am. And at some point, it's like, if we just let this get to July 1st, whatever the equivalent of July 1st is this year, by the time you get out there and find out there's going to be so much bad. So you know what? Just we'll let you do it right now. Go find out. And if you turn out to be a $9 million guy and that's what you want, and at some place you're happy,

no hard feelings. but if not, come back and we'll still have time to work something out where we haven't already used up our space and plugged our roster holes and now we don't have anywhere for you. Makes sense. I'm surprised more teams don't do it, although I can understand why you'd be hesitant in a lot of situations. Yeah, no, I think it's a real smart play, right? I mean, you know, the thing that I think if you're Carolina, you're probably worried about is like they say, hey, we can, we can, we can, give you this and then he's like, hey, we want, I want this. And then all of a sudden, you know, they move on. And I think that's the risk that Dougie runs. Because I do think Carolina's a good

spot for him. Like, I think it's worked out kind of nice for him there. And maybe the grass isn't necessarily greener. But he does feel like one of those, like I feel like, you know, a guy like Alex Petrangelo last year, we had a pretty good sense. Maybe there was uncertainty because of the flat cap, but you have a pretty good sense what that guy is going to be worth on the open market. There's guys every year where you go, you know what, we're pretty sure we know what this guy would be. But Hamilton, there could be a range. And Taylor Hall is another one now.

It sounds like with him, he just wants to be in Boston, so it probably isn't going to matter. But Taylor Hall is another guy where Taylor Hall, in theory, could be like, I'm a former MVP, I'm a forward, I've got the, you know, my best season has been this. I'm a nine or ten million dollar player. And the team that had him could be like, no, you're not that. But go find out and then let us know. So I think it's a little bit of a unique case.

Like if you've got a guy where it's like, yeah, everybody knows this guy's going to be a $10 million guy, then yeah, don't let him go talk to other teams because he's just going to, you know, you know what the price is. Pay it or don't pay it, but don't let him have early access to the market. But with Hamilton, I think it makes sense. Yeah, it's kind of reminiscent of Seth Jones in the opposite direction, right, where it's like, Well, hockey men don't seem to really rate this guy, but there are plenty of teams now that are not just like 65-year-old guys who used to play in the NHL running them. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And so, you know, like there are, while I think that that lack of a market, like, you know, with Patrangelo or with Seth Jones, it's like, oh, no, there's a line around the block for this guy. And it's like, I, you know, there are going to definitely be teams that value what Dougie Hamilton does and they'd be right to do it. But also like how many of those teams are there? You know, I really don't know. And here's the other thing. Like, I, to me, Dougie Hamilton feels like the sort of guy where you're like, this is the guy that the smart teams will be in on. But then you're going, you know who's a really smart team?

Carolina. So if they're letting him go, like how, how smart am I sure that my? My team's smart guys are if Caroline is willing to let this guy walk. And obviously the market and Dundon and everything have a big impact there too. But it kind of becomes a bit of a poker game where it's like, hmm, how sure am I that I've actually got the best hand here and I'm not walking into something? Yeah, and not to turn this into Leaf's Corner, obviously. But like the big rumor for more than a few years, it's like, yeah, Kyle Dubus would gnaw his own. arm off to get Dougie Hamilton on the roster.

So, you know, like all you, basically the point being there that, like, all you need is one team with, like, the motivation and the cap space, which maybe you say the Leafs don't have that cap space right now. But all you need is one to be like, yeah, no, we agree. You're a $9 million player. And he's like, okay, see you later, you know? Like, it doesn't have to be fucking five teams bidding against each other and falling all over themselves trying to get this guy.

it's just going to be one that's like, yeah, we think you're worth it. So it's really interesting for like everybody involved. It's going to be super important to look at. Sean, you know a lot about the Leafs. Would you swap Morgan Riley for Dougie Hamilton in their lineup? Yeah, I mean, that's the trade that you got to make if you're the Leafs. It basically, not that it would be a trade with Carolina, but it's basically Riley and probably Zach Hyman for Dougie Hamilton and picks and prospects. because you'd lose Hyman, you'd trade Riley for picks and prospects,

you'd sign Hamilton, you'd probably have to sign somebody to be a cheaper, Zach Hyman at the same time. So it's tough. The thing with Morgan Riley is, like, he's got one year left on his deal. And then he's going to be the guy going, I think I can be a $9 million player. So it might make sense to say if we can get that now and get Dougie Hamilton locked in for a few years, then maybe we take that over the uncertainty of having a guy on the last year of a very good value contract, but one that probably sees him walk for nothing at the end of next year? I don't know.

It's a tough call. Yeah. And the other thing, obviously, is, like, I think it depends with Hamilton, like, if you're theoretically swapping one for the other. Like, what kind of term does Dougie want? Because if, you know, he's like, well, I, you know, I'd like to come out of this flat. flat cap thing with a little bit of extra money, but I also don't want to like, you know, blow my opportunity to get maybe one last good size contract at the end of the flat cap. How long does the flat cap last again?

Oh, I don't think it's locked in, but it's like at least another three years. It's going to be at least like another three years, I think. Right. But I'm saying if you get Dougie Hamilton for four years and that takes you to like his age 31, I think season or maybe 32, like, I think. you do that, no questions asked. As opposed to if Morgan Riley wants like

five, six years and similar money, who's better? I think Dougie is. Yeah, it's, it's, they're in the same ballpark. I think you could, you could make the argument Hamilton's better, but, uh...

Well, so, I mean, you know, the, the, the, the knock on Hamilton is, well, he plays with, uh, Slavin, who's, who's really good defensively and allows Dougie to the things that makes Dougie valuable. But I don't know. Somebody the other day was posting numbers about it and was like, yeah, when you take Slavin away from Hamilton, he's not very good.

And when you take Hamilton away from Slavin, he's still Dougie Hamilton, you know? And that was like, oh, and his most common defensive partner at that point is like Jake Gardner or Trevor Van Riemstike or something like that. And it's like, yeah, you know what? Like, I think, you know, if the knock on Hamilton is that he's played for all these teams in his career and the next one would be his fourth, I guess. On some level, it's like, well, he's proven he can play everywhere. And it's like, well, maybe he can just play with anybody. Because if, like, he can make anybody on the Calgary Flames, on the Boston Bruins, on the Carolina Hurricanes.

If he can make everybody there look good along the way, then maybe that's just like a him thing. And it's not necessarily that like all these organizations are passing on him because he likes to go to museum. He's bad or whatever. Yeah. And, and, you know, the other thing that you got to point out when people say, well, this is his third organization since he was like, whatever, 24 or something. Or between the ages of 18 and 24, like, yeah, Adam Fox was in three organizations before he played an NHL game. So. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know one other thing, if the Leafs do get Dougie Hamilton, you know what that means. Retroactively, they won the Phil Kessel trip. That's right. Right. So, yeah, you got that going for you, too, I think. I feel like there needs to be more relitigation of the Bruins letting Hamilton walk. I feel like there hasn't been enough of that. Yeah.

I think that's happening now because it's like, uh-oh, we might end up with no cups out of this roster after 2011. You know? because now everybody's relitigating 2015 draft again which... And that was one of those picks, right? If the pick in that trade had turned into Barzell, Connor, Shabbat,

then we're not re-litigating anything. Right, right. It did not, so... No, it did not. And now everybody's talking about, well, what if they can get Jake DeBrusk out of town? What happens then? And it's like, oh, the only guy from that draft

that had any impact at the NHL level. And like I've said for a long time I think he's like Overrated and now it seems like no he's properly rated It's not particularly good So it's tough Like you know I think they're probably hoping Seattle takes him

In the expansion draft but I don't know if they will I believe his name is now officially hyphenated He is now Jake DeBrusk hyphen on the trading block Yeah As he has been there for at least the last what Three years maybe four Yep

But he had 30 goals his working year, so, you know, he rocks forever. Sean, you did the bit with Gentilly where you watched American commercials from the Cup playoffs? I did. Do you have any favorites? Favorites? Well, so the ones he gave me, he gave me the wet teddy bear hot dog gap.

I mean, it's funny when you say it. Yeah, exactly. gave me the, the magic turtle. And he gave me the, uh, the, uh, the guy singing with his hood ornament, which, uh, I'll say that none of them were Tara Tara level bad, which we knew going in, uh, was not, we were not going to get to that level. So I'm, I'm not as scarred by this experience. I feel like there's kind of a consensus that the American commercials were worse last year just on the strength of, of, uh, of,

of tax attorney. Yeah. But that, but that the Canadian ones take it this year because they're, the, boy, Tim Hortons was doing some work this year. So they,

that Harvey's one was maybe the worst thing I've ever fucking seen in my life. It's all my God. It's really bad too, man. The turtle one's bad, though. Wet Titty Bears is fun only because it's such a random punchline. Yeah. Like, the first time I saw it,

I was like, okay, like, this is this is like a you know C tier Simpsons joke circle like season 14 or something but it's not bad You know it's not bad yeah it's just like it's just like whatever but yeah I mean the problem is that you've now seen it 58 times and it's like right the teddy bears are going to be wet here you're right that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's dude on the simpsons who's like could I interest you in a wet teddy bear kind of guy yeah yeah all right but um I still say the the the I think it's like a BMW or lexas or something. thing commercial with the guy who hosted the Bachelorette after Chris Harrison got in trouble. Or the Bachelor, like, after the Rose thing. Do you know this?

Yeah. The NFL guy. I don't know. The one where he's jogging or whatever. Yeah. And he's like, I may not see you, but I am you. I may not feel you, but I be. And it's like, what the fuck is?

Shut the fuck up. Sell me a car. Yeah, like, it's not selling a car. It's just like, does this make me want to buy a Lexus? Like, the idea of empathy? Like, if I'm buying Alexis, I don't feel like I'm a very empathetic person, like, in my life. All right, real quick, NHLPA players poll comes out tomorrow as we taped the podcast. Perfect fucking time.

We couldn't get an advanced copy, huh? It sucks. Predictions. Best goalie. Carry price. Agreed? Yeah. Of course.

Yeah. No, I think Vassel. Until he retires and then for two years after, it's going to be. carry price every year. I think it's going to be Vasilepsi this year. Wow. All right. I like it. I think it's price, but you might be right. I guess it depends on when they did it. You know?

Maybe it was during one of Price's real regular season lapses. It's a good, it's a good point, Ryan. It could be either one. Best defenseman, Victor Headman, yes? McCar. Oh, I'm going to go ahead. I think the players are going to say that? Yeah, because he's so fucking exciting. Nah, I think

There's gonna be a seniority thing with Headman. I think there will be, yeah. Most complete player. Ooh, that's a good question. Sid? Him or Bergeron? Yeah, I would agree. Stone, I wonder if Stone will get a lot of support.

That's a good, yeah, that's a good call. But the thing with Stone is, like, I don't know that everybody's really played him and the fully realized, like, level up. Oh, damn, look how good Mark Stone is this year. You know what I mean? Because I feel like that really only started, like, in the popular idea of Mark Stone, like, this year. Yeah.

So I don't know. So he was like a level one Pokemon when they played him. And then he's now, like, in his fully realized form, his final form. Yeah, he was, he was more of a, what's the middle one with Charmander and Charzard? He was, he was the, that's what I didn't want to get specific because I could never forget. I can never remember the middle ones. I only remember the small to big. The player they would want on their side if they had to win one game.

See, I think I could see, I think Crosby wins the last one. I could see Bergeron being the guy that they picked for this one. Because in theory, this is the same question as the last one. Well, this is where I think they pick Cary Price. Yeah, I may. I'm going to go ahead. I think I'm going to go off the. board. I think they'd pick Connor for this one.

They should, but... Well, great, he doesn't play freaking defense. Best goal score. Austin Matthews. Yeah, whoever won the Rocket Richard last year was probably going to be Austin Matthews ahead of Ovechkin would be the other one.

I wonder if Pasturneck gets any love there. Yeah, I think he'd be the third guy in the in the top three. Best shot. Oh, that's Austin Matthews. Shea Weber. Right? Like, won't they go to say Shea Weber?

Like, all the Canadians are just going to say Shea Weber? I don't know. I mean, you'll get some votes. I guess what I should be doing is looking up what last year's results were, because this will tell us everything, because these... I feel it's going to be Ovechkin, actually, for Best Shot. I just... Hmm. Okay.

1920 poll. Let's see here. By the way, the next category is best passer and best stick handler. That's one. That's one category. So wait, so we need separate categories for goal scoring and shooting. Right. So actually, here we go.

We did complete player, right? That was one of the ones we talked about earlier minute ago. Yeah. Well, yeah, most complete player. Okay, that was Crosby ahead of Bergeron, and both of them were well ahead of Barcov and O'Reilly. That was last year. I can see where maybe you say Bergeron and Crosby flip, but Barkov gets way more of a bump up, I think. Okay.

But Crosby was the number one player if you need to win a game. Connor McDavid was the number two. And Bergeron barely got anything. I'm apparently wrong on that. Most fashionable player. You can get Matthews or P.K.? Probably Matthews, right? Yeah, well, they all hate PK, so it won't be him.

Right. That's ESPN's PK Sudband, do you, sir? Yeah, well, they still hate them. There's a category that says series-style schedule. I guess it's probably like 2-2-1-1 or... No, I think that's the regular season. Like, did you like the baseball? style schedule is how I read that, where you're playing the same team two or three times.

Did they all say yes, they all liked it? Did they? I think they probably did, yeah. If you're Dougie Hamilton, more time to go to museums. That's right. Regional divisions. I don't know. I mean...

It doesn't matter, but they... The thing is, like, the divisions are mostly regional anyhow. Yeah. If you're a member of the coyotes, you're probably saying no here. Right, because you just have to play Vegas all the time or whatever. Well, I don't know. Okay, so that's a good question. So they're getting moved to the Central next year.

Oh, that's true. Are you happier in the Central or are you happier in the Pacific? Does competition matter more than... Well, actually, you want to be the Pacific for travel and competition because the Central's going to be really fucking hard, aren't they? Yep. Yeah, Pacific's got a clear path to the playoffs by far, I would argue. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, there you go. Play your poll tomorrow. You'll be able to get excited. All right. Well, end this week's Puck Soup with a little overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite action. If you wanted to hear some game shows, do check out the Patreon episode where we did our Discord call-in show, which definitely vacillated between really great and train wreck. But that's fine. That's what makes it fun. That's right. So, somebody had a really good suggestion for overrated, underrated this week.

And I don't remember who it was. But thank you for doing this. Oh, it's William Casper's. Ready? Beach activities. Beach activities. So overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite, beach activities. Hmm.

Do I know four activities? of the beach? You don't know the four activities of the beach? I don't know. I guess we'll find out. Overrated. I'll go first. Eating. That's a good one. It's super fucking hot. There are like seagulls that are like circling your shit. And if you leave a chip on the ground, they'll come and get it.

And all of a sudden there's like a billion of them. And like, I remember being at the beach in Jersey once. And I saw, and this is such a very Jersey. thing. I saw someone bring a full pizza pie to the beach, and I just said to myself, like, that's the last thing I ever wanted to eat when it's super hot out is just the piping hot pizza. A nice pepperoni and sand pizza. Yeah, and sand gets everywhere.

It's coarse. Eating was going to be my least favorite. Yeah. So we're on the same page. Okay, good. Mine is. Yeah, overrated for me. Mine is doing a sport on the beach sucks for all the same reasons.

It's hot, there's no shade. And also, running on sand and stuff like that, that's a great way to destroy your knees. I remember there was a guy on the Patriots a million years ago who basically had his football career. And at the Pro Bowl, because there was like a sand, like a beach football kind of an event. and he just destroyed his ACL MCL PC, whatever it was. Yeah, it was, I remember that. And it's like, yeah, and that guy was in good shape. So I'm not going to fuck around and like try to play sports on the beach when I'm,

me in horrible shape. So fuck that. You don't want that. You have an overrated show? Yeah, my overrated, uh, swimming. Uh, the water is freezing cold, which I don't, I'm, I'm one of those people who doesn't like super cold water. And depending on where you are, you go in, it's cold, can't really do anything. Your kids are, you know, telling you that they're cold. And oh, yeah, there's, if you're on a beach by the ocean, there is a chance that the tide will just decide that it's your day to die that day.

This is true. And haul you off to the bottom of the ocean. So, no, that's a pass for me. I'll go in up to a boat to a boat. up my ankles and then I'm pretty much good. Yep. Sharks, stingrays, jellyfish. You don't want to fuck with any of that. Did you see, there was a guy on Cape Cod this week who got swallowed by a whale for like 40 seconds? Because humpback whales closed their eyes when they feed. And so it just didn't even see him. And he got, too.

Sure. And he, so he gets swallowed by a whale. and like he kind of doesn't realize what happened because the whale just kind of snuck up on him. And then he figures it out pretty quickly and like starts just like kicking and punching at the walls of the whale's mouth, I guess. And, uh, and the whales like, oh, this sucks and spits him out. And, and they think it was like a, like an adolescent because it was big enough to swallow a man, but not big enough to, uh, no, not to eat a man. So pretty interesting Don't want to get eaten by a whale

Would be my reason not to go in the water at the beach What's that what's that game show where you have to guess why someone's like famous You know that? What's my line? What's my line? I mean, that's probably the ultimate what's my line Right? Yeah

Well there was the guy from like the 40 or the 50s maybe where they were like Oh yeah I was at the battle of fucking Bull Run or whatever You ever see that one? No. Where there's just some guy. Oh, no, it was, he was, I'm sorry, he was at the play of our American cousin where fucking Lincoln got assassinated. And this is, and this is like a hundred and six year old man. I think it was a man.

It might have been a woman. But yeah, she's just like, and let's put it this way. Just in case you didn't know that, that show was fixed. They figured it out pretty quick. quickly. So, and I guess they could see that she was old, but. The most fiction show on television is the Masked Singer. They give all the answers to Jenny McCarthy, and then she acts like she's a genius by figuring out who's behind the mask.

Oh. It's very irksome. Underrated, underrated beach activity about Jenny McCarthy. Famously. Yeah. Underrated beach activity, going to the beach in the winter. Very underrated. Now, you might, you might.

You might like that one both use because you're in like cold climates too, like I can be. But I love going to the beach in the winter. I love a cold beach. You get all wrapped up. Maybe you can make a little fire. It's empty. You just hear the waves rumbly-tumbly. Going to the beach when it's cold out.

Very underrated. Yeah, mine's very similar because of like the rules about what you can do on the beach in the summer, which is take your dog to the beach for a nice long dog walk, especially our dog is, very good off the leash. And so if there's not a lot of people there, we'll let him just kind of roam around. And he loves it. He loves going in the water and standing up to his knees and not one step further. He loves smelling things. He loves just running. Oh, boy, you can't beat a beach if you're my dog. So I'm going to say for me, my underrated is, um, is sports and particularly throwing a football around, and I say that while acknowledging pretty much everything Ryan said was

correct. I'm talking like a leisurely game of catch. Yeah. It's not too crowded. Let me differentiate. If you're going super competitive, that's dumb. Yeah, let me differentiate. Throwing the ball or having a game of catch is not the same thing as like playing volleyball

or whatever. And also the only good reason to go in the water is if you can make like a sweet diving diving catch. That's awesome. I do love beach volleyball. That's going to be great. Beach volleyball is fun. Each volleyball can be fun too, again, until like the hyper-competitive dudes show up.

And then it's like, all right, there's no Olympic scouts here, but okay. As a tall person, I like volleyball. It's one of the few advantages I have in life because you don't have to dribble anything in volleyball. You can just stand there and be tall. Favorite. Looking for shells. Oh, I love looking for shells. even as an adult, I love going up and down the beach and looking for pretty shells or interesting shells or shells that may have critters still inside of them.

I love looking for shells. This is probably my favorite thing to do at the beach. Mine's pretty similar. I thought about saying reading a book because reading a book at the beach is like the, I think, the chillest thing you can do. And also, but by the way, an actual book and not a, not a tax. tablet, right? Absolutely. Yes.

I agreed. Yes. That's where Ruby and I are divergent. She is a tablet reader. Yeah, she wants to get sand in her iPad. That's her business. I don't... Or maybe electrocuted, one of the two.

Yeah. But for me, go to the beach. You get a good tide pool. There's some, like, sea urchins in there or some shit. Horseshoe crab. Fucking rocks. Yeah. I love a tide pool.

Not bad. My favorite thing to do with the beach is, nothing, just go and lay there. If it's a nice day, it's usually not too hot because you're by the water. And, you know, if it's not too crowded and you can just kind of chill out, yeah, maybe read a book. Maybe have a nap. Maybe whatever it is. That's an A-plus afternoon in my book. Least's favor for me is very easy. Application of sunscreen. I'm, I'm, I'm a big fella. So, A, it takes a long time.

I'm also Irish and somewhat fair-skinned, so I got to put the good stuff on and protect me from the sun's damaging rays. But the biggest thing for me is that I can't imagine for anybody in my vicinity that this is the least bit attractive to see me applying suntan lotion to myself, either through spray or through, you know, you're going to. using your hands. I feel like you're at the beach to see beautiful vistas and not to see a human manatee lube himself up. So I got to say it's probably that for myself and for the people around me. My answer is going in the summer. I don't fuck with that. No thank you. I don't like it. I went, when we went to Spain a few years ago, we went to the beach because it was like 80 degrees and sunny and nice.

And that was in January, and there weren't a lot of people around because the locals are like, a little cold to go to the beach. Not for me, a person who was leaving, you know, 20-degree New England. So that worked out great. But, and again, you know, love to take the dog for a nice fall or even maybe early spring beach walk. But going in the summer is a miserable experience. But you're not going over to Cape Cod with the rest of the 12th. Boris. I don't know what accent that's supposed to be, but nobody says Cape Cod like that at all.

Cape Cod. Nobody says it, no, nobody says it like that. First of all, I think he's, I think he's being Ukrainian here. Yeah, okay. And first of all, people call it the Cape here. They don't. Yeah. Okay. That's the vigilante that protects Cape Cod, I believe. my least favorite was going to be eating but I wanted to come up with one that hadn't already been said I was going to go with going to the beach with like a young child we have to lug a bunch of stuff but then I realized I think that applies anywhere like if you've got a kid under the age of four anywhere you go isn't fun but yeah especially at the beach where they're you're going to get sunburned and get sand kicked. Oh, yeah.

And then they're afraid of the water and you're like, the whole fucking reason you're here is to go in the water. What's wrong with you? Exactly. Yep. But so I'm going to instead go with walking anywhere on hot sand because you would think at some point in my life I would figure this out and be like, I'm going to throw on a pair of flip-flops when I walk over to the snack bar there.

Nope. I get five steps in. I'm in crippling pain. And instead of turning around and going five steps back. I'm like, I'm too far in. I got to tough it out. And I just hate every second of it. And it happens to me at least four times on every trip to the beach.

Yikes. All right, that's Puck Soup for this week. An eventful episode, if there ever was one. You can read my stuff on ESPN.com. My column runs on Thursdays. I also was on the ESPN Daily podcast this week, talking about the classic Bruins-Kinucks Stanley Cup final 10-year anniversary of that series and the story I did on the Vancouver Riot Kissing Couple.

So you can go track down that episode. Two former anarchists who were only in Vancouver because they wanted to do problems or whatever. Do crimes. Yeah. You can read E.P.Rinkside.com weekly. what we learn column next week I think I got to do the power feelings

for this for this month and once teams start getting eliminated again I will be doing what should they do in the off season for this round as well I did it for everybody in the

in the first round or the second round and we're going from there so yep check that out use the code I love EP when you sign up for an annual subscription you get three weeks months for free, and then also sign up for the Puck Soup Patreon.

You kind of know what the deal is with that by now. And EP Elias Pedersen? That's right. That's the guy. Find me on The Athletic, as we talked about, I have my piece with Jed Tilley this week, where we go over the worst of the ads. And you can also find late last week I had the post I've been threatening to write for a few months now where I explain with examples and all sorts of stuff how goaltending interference works.

So if you have ever heard yourself saying that nobody understands how this rule works, read the post, it's not going to, it's not going to get you 100% of the way there to understanding every single call, but my goal was 80 to 90% and based on the feedback, it seems to be doing that. So if you've ever been curious about how the rule actually works, check that out and let me know what you think. And then next week you can follow that up with the too many men. Yes. Explain that why it's almost now. It's going to be an ongoing series.

Why this NHO rule doesn't work the way you think, part infinity. A billion. Not the worst idea. No. Especially because of how stupid this league is. It's very dumb. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening.

We will talk to you next week. Oh, but also talk to you on the mailbag on the Patreon. So go there now. Thanks. Bye. See you. Bye-bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons

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