Puck Soup - Hockey Hall of Lame

Episode Date: June 27, 2019

Greg, Ryan and Sean discuss this week's Hockey Hall of Fame announcement, and lament the snub; the NHL Draft and the Devils' P.K. Subban trade blockbuster; all the Maple Leafs drama, and Darren Dreger as Mitch Marner's dad's mouthpiece; Roberto Luongo retiring; Bob McCown leaving; previewing the NHL free agent frenzy; and Greg gives the boys a "Did This Happen in 2018-19?" quiz for the ages.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hockey and Nancet. I'm Greg Wyshinsky of ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports. You may know us from such channels as ESPN. ESPN 2. ESPN News, that college won, and that old sports station.

They don't have anymore. I'm Ryan Lamber from Yahoo. I don't think we have TV. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic, and my neighbor has chosen this exact moment to mow his lawn, so apologize. That's killer. That's killer. I shut, oh, you're in Puck Soup. I shut off my air conditioning to make sure that the audio quality is pristine for the listeners. And meanwhile, there's kids. going to be monloing going on.

It's fantastic. That's fine. Actually, it's funny. I went back and listened to the last podcast that Lozo and I did at the end of last season. Who? Between the air conditioner... I know who. Yeah. The president of the Sergey Zubov fan club,

sir. Between the air conditioner going, the construction outside the street, it literally sounds like we're doing the show in the middle of fucking time. square. So I'm sure this sounds better than that in some ways. Speaking of better than that in some ways, the Hockey Hall of Fame announced its class of 2019, and Haley Wickenheiser, just to rub our faces in the fact that she's fucking Haley Wickenhizer, wasn't really around for it because she was taking a medical exam.

Yes. Come on. We get it, Haley. Come on. We get it. We get it. Yeah, she was also training a moon mission. Yeah. Get it over. Yeah, right. Right. That's right. Yeah. Greg, why could you do Puck Sub? Oh, I don't know. I was on a brunch date with Emma Stone. Come on. Enough of this nonsense. Um, so Wick gets in and she's the headliner because the other people that got in were Sergey Zuboff, Guy Puckcarbenol, uh, Vakloff, Named, Niedmonski. You know, I think I'd probably know how to pronounce his name if I had heard it mentioned within the last 33 years. And, uh, the bill. shoulders, of course, are Jimmy Rutherford, who everybody knew was going to get in, and Jerry York, who was a big surprise and made Ryan Lambert really happy. I wouldn't say really happy. I think he deserves it.

I mean, he's the winning his coach in the history of college hockey. Like, he has a thousand wins, and I think the next closest guy has, like, 750 or something like that. College. Nope, I'm not going to entertain that. I'm pretty sure it's college. I've seen the shirts. No, that's fake. But does he deserve to get in?

Yeah, 100% He's the best coach in the history. Like, he's been doing it for 47 years. He's won pretty much everywhere without fail. Five national championships. There was a stretch where BC went to, I think, 12 frozen fours in 18 years. They were really good and have been forever. So, yeah, I can't knock that.

Is this going to create a run on NCAA people now, much like when the hockey hall of fan discovered Russians? Yeah, so, you know, once that happened, everybody was like, well, what about Jack Parker? Well, I mean, he's not even the best coach at a college with Boston in its name, but sure. You know, what about, you know, so you can do whatabouts for a lot, but, I mean, I think there's a pretty big gap between Jerry York and the next closest guy. but not even like closest. Like he's in a different stratosphere. The Zuboff election is a really interesting one.

I feel like the internet smarts willed this into existence. And I also feel like it is a huge win for guys who didn't get individual recognition during their careers, but clearly we're really good and maybe played during an era where there might have been one other guy who won, all of the awards they would have won perhaps otherwise. Although he wasn't even like in top five. Well, yeah, that's that's the thing with it. Like I've, I've never found his case as convincing as some seem to think it was. I never thought it was the slam dunk. Because you're right. We always heard that, you know, it's, well, it's not his fault that he played during the Nicholas Lidstrom era. Yeah, but he had one year where he was a Norris finalist. So it's not like this isn't a

situation where he's constantly finishing. This isn't Steve Eisenman constantly being third behind Gretzky and Lemieux and that sort of thing. But I also don't think he's a terrible selection. Like I'm not going to get up on my haul of very good soapbox over this one. I think that given other guys who have gone in, he's a perfectly reasonable choice, even though I don't think you were an utter moron and cretan if you didn't think he was a slam dunk as something. people did. I feel seen.

I appreciate that. What about you? Where are you on Zuboff, Ryan? Yeah, he should be in. I don't think, like you guys said, I don't think it's a slam dunk. I think he waited an appropriate amount of time, let's say, to get in. But, yeah, he should be in. So now he is.

That's it. Now, how do you think this affects some of the other defense? Like, first of all, again, the Doug Wilson thing is always going to bother me to no end. I think he should be in the Hall of Fame. it's getting to be a bit of a weight. Kevin Lowe looks like he's going to end up being Dei Concepcion of the big red machine, like the ninth or tenth guy who doesn't get into the Hall of Fame, even though he's pretty good.

And then you got Gonshire out there who, yeah, I honestly thought had a chance to get in before Zubov, just based on name recognition alone. But I wonder if he gets in now, if this fills their Russian defenseman quota for the next, you know, 10 years. Yeah, it's tough to say. Yeah, I mean, first, First of all, I agree with you on Doug Wilson.

I made that case. Doug Wilson is one of those guys. Like, I like writing about this stuff, and he was one of those guys where when I sat down to write about his candidacy, I found out it was stronger than I thought it had been. I think the stat I came up with is that the entire list of NHL defensemen who have both won on Norris and are in the top 25. scoring. So that's like your, if you want your peak, that's your Norris season. If you want longevity, that's like where you rank in the scoring list. And of all the guys who are in the top 25 and have a Norris, Doug Wilson is the only one who's not in the Hall of Fame. So I think even without the GM stuff, without any of the post, you know, the front office,

I think he's got a good case. Kevin Lowe, no. You don't, you don't get in just based on cup rings when you're you you play for uh uh an all time dynasty i mean glen anderson bad news for all those guys from the canadians who are in the hall of thing yeah but i mean glen anderson at least got close to 500 goals which isn't saying much for a winger from the 80s but yeah it's it's it's Kevin Kevin low is not a hall of famer and no surgey gonchar i don't know gonchar two two seasons as an all-star it's not bad that's two more than some guys in the Hall of Fame have long career. You know, he's in the discussion.

I'm not losing any sleep over him not being in, but he's he's he's worth the conversation, I guess. Yeah. I agree with you on Lowe, and I thought that there was a chance he might get in this year just because it was such a sort of like pause in the schedule between Loxia. Carbino, fuck, man, like, first of all, the thing that bothers me the most about the Hall of Fame, we can get into the voting in a second,

is the sort of arbitrary, here's the year this guy gets in for some reason, stuff. Yeah. I don't think he's as good as Brindamore. And at one point in the recent history, I didn't really think Brindamore should be in the Hall of Fame, but if fucking Guy Carbino is, Brindamor probably should be. And this is one of those picks of that just smacks of that, you know, if his entire career was in Dallas, maybe he doesn't get in. It's got a bit of the hab thing going on here.

I was genuinely shocked that he got in. He wasn't on my radar at all. Yeah, that's the thing with that. It's weird. Yeah, it's not that he's a terrible pick. I think there is a case to be made that we are, these days, we have a better understanding and appreciation for defensive forwards and that, you know, we've got this cohort of, we're not that far away from guys like Bergeron, Taves and Kopitar who were, you know, more in the two-way mold, obviously, but, and that if Ganey's going to be in, that a guy like Carbonos should as well. Like, I get that, but the problem is, why now after 16 years? I mean, I read a bunch of articles leading up to this, as I do every year,

reading about the different candidates and who might get in and what people think the chances are. I read several articles that talked about 15 or 20 candidates for this year that did not mention Giacarbono at all. Yeah, right. That's how off the radar he was, not in the sense of being a terrible pick again, you know, But three Selkies, okay, so I mean, are we, yeah, that maybe, maybe we need to give more respect to the Selke. And, you know, there's the argument that says he was not just a defensive fore, but was a defensive for during an offensive era. Yeah, okay, I can, if I squint, I can see the case, but, you know, like, is Erie Layton in next? Like, what are we doing?

And is Yuri Layton in next in 20 years? and like it's it's the bigger question and I've written about this before is the way the process works and the way we get no insight whatsoever other than who gets in and who doesn't we don't like like Tim Raines in baseball was fascinating watching him get closer and closer over a 10 year period uh and and and finally get in the way that football does it where there's kind of tears and that you at least have a sense of who's close in a given year and whose case is maybe getting stronger or weaker. I don't know.

Maybe Guy Carbono was two votes short every year for the last decade and finally, you know, got pushed past the finish line. Or maybe he hadn't even been discussed in a decade and then somebody brought him up and the wind was blowing the right direction this year. And I would like to know that. And I think it would, I think the fans that this is supposed to be for would like to know that. And I just wish we had more insight into how this all works.

Yeah, so for me, it's one of those things of, like, it wasn't a particularly strong class. And they were like, well, we got to have X number of guys get in. So it might as well be key carbon-no. And, like, that's kind of what, like, you see this every once in a while in other sports as well, but it's just like, you don't have to let in literally, like, the maximum number of people that you can put in every year. Just don't do it sometimes. Yeah. Which in the past, they have not done. And even this year, I mean, they can do four players from the men's side and they only did three.

And we've seen other years where they've only done one. So, I mean, I just. But that's what I'm saying is that what this felt like. This was filling a quota. Yeah. This was a good year to catch up and clean up on some past misses. I would agree with that. You know, no obvious first ballot candidate.

No obvious candidates at all other than Wickenheiser, obviously. This was the right year to clean up. I just don't know that this was the direction that cleanup should have gone. I have a list of guys that I would have put in ahead of Carbono, including some guys I wouldn't necessarily want to see in, but who I think have stronger cases based on what I've looked at. Dale Hunter? Maybe not.

it would be funny to see him go in and Pierre Turgeon in the same year. You just have Turgeon looking over his shoulder through that entire thing. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, Turgeon has to go in first. You're completely right. The two things about this,

the Selke wins in the 1980s, look, I understand the award. I don't think you could take those wins away from him. I will say at that point, Selke voting was eye test plus face-off percentage. So I'm not really, you know, all that jazzed about being...

Plus how often you're on TV and all that... Precisely, yeah. I mean, and so that run of being in the top three in the Selke for five years to me is... And he won it three times. He won it again, you know, a couple of years after that run. It's impressive. You can't take it away. But I think that's the award more than anything else that has really changed in its scope and its accuracy in the last 20 years.

And like you said, Sean, like, you know, when Nettamansky gets in after... a 30 plus year wait. I just want an explanation as to why. Like, why the weight? Why now? Why, why this time? You don't, the hockey hall of fame is a private business. They don't have to give me shit about what happens with a high and closed doors

and that selection committee to guys who don't get in. I completely understand that. You don't have to get up there and be like, well, Daniel Alpherson only had blah, blah, blah, votes. And we think you might be the hall of very good. That's kind of embarrassing for the dude. I completely get that. but you should show your work a little bit on some of these picks.

So when we get on this conference call and we're like, why this guy now, they'll go into his bona fides as a player, but they'll never get into why the weight. And that's the clandestine part of this thing that I really hate. And here's the weird thing. And maybe as I even talk myself through this, I'm not sure I can justify this in my own head. Netamanski didn't bother me as much,

even though we're talking, a 30-year wait at this point. Because I think there's a point where you might say there are certain guys who had historical value who maybe, you know, we're at the point where they weren't even seen firsthand by some of the people on the committee where they are going to fall off the radar and somebody has to drag them back and really forcefully make the case and say, here's, here's why we missed on this. And it's time to fix that. And especially when you're dealing with someone who, you know, as a player internationally, you know, it's the hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL Hall of Fame, as a player had strong qualifications, but also had historical

importance that maybe has been, has faded a little bit in modern times. For some reason, it doesn't bother me as much to see them go back that far and get somebody like that versus a guy like Guy Carbino who the case has pretty much been the same year after year for the last 16 years or or a roji vachan or a mark how or any of those guys who wait for a decade and then uh kind of fall off the list and then suddenly one year you're you're just left going oh okay i guess i guess we're doing this now um a couple of couple guys that we should probably uh mention it with regard to the hall of fan first off uh you have alfredson who i really thought was going to be the headliner of this class he doesn't get it again are is he going

be, is he going to be relegated to Hall of Very Good? He's just not going to be a Hall of Famer. I mean, I think his case is, is very borderline. I've made that argument before. I did think he was going to get in for a variety of reasons, partly because he played almost his entire career in one market, and that really does seem to help and get you kind of that groundswell behind you. I don't know. I mean, part of my frustration with this year's class is I'm, you know, normally you might see a guy like Alfredson not get in in his third year and say maybe the committee just isn't buying it. Maybe his case just isn't strong enough. Whereas now I'm looking at it going, yeah, he's going to get in someday, but maybe it'll be next year. Maybe it'll be five years. Maybe

it'll be 10 years. You know, apparently if his, his case is, yeah, again, you know, and again, you hate to do this, but this is, whenever you put a guy like a Guy Carbono in, fans are going to immediately start saying, okay, everyone who seems like they might have a stronger case than is now a Hall of Famer. And that's going to get pretty... The Bernie for Durko Amendment. Exactly. That's going to start getting crowded because I think you, if you're a senator's fan and you want to come and say, Daniel Alpherson is a, it should be in the Hall of Fame, I can push back on that. I can give you arguments why you shouldn't. If you want to come to me and say Daniel Alpherson has a stronger case than Guy Carbono,

I think you win that argument. And now where does that leave us? Alex McGilny is now my my my my my platform yeah like he's got the history thing that just got the Czech guy elected he's got a point per game career in the most difficult league in the world in which to play everybody you talk to that played with him says he was a fucking otherworldly talent McGilney's my guy right now as far as like waving the battle flag to get this guy and he's going to get in now like that was my I hope so That was my takeaway from seeing Natamansky go in is, okay, we've cleared the deck. If you want to say that he was the first, then okay, he gets in. I can't see an argument against McGill. Like, I think McGill only purely as a player, maybe borderline, you know, he was an offensive guy who didn't hit some of those big milestones. He certainly had the peak, but it was a short peak.

But when you factor, what I've always struggled with with him is do you, how do you, you factor in the historical component and the fact that he was the first guy to come over from Soviet Union. I mean, now we know. We've had that answered. That does factor in. That can get you in the Hall of Fame. He's in.

And whether it's next year or a year soon, I would be stunned if we're sitting here 10 years from now, and Alexander McGilney isn't in the Hall of Fame. What about you, Ryan? Yeah, no, he should be in. For all the reasons you guys just said, there's not really much more. I think that needs to be said. He was unbelievable international success, NHEL success, all that kind of stuff.

It seems like it should be a slam dunk thing, but because he's Russian, maybe it isn't allowed to be. Now, Ryan, what about another guy who I think is a national hero to many? Paul Henderson. Here we go. This is such classic baby boomer shit. What country is he from, Greg? I can't remember.

Is he? Yeah, I believe from Letveria, where Dr. Doom resides as the leader. Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, listen, I'm 62 years old. And this guy who I liked when I was a kid. Eric DeHatchik wrote a thing, right? Yeah, boy, he did. And the argument was, well, look, sure, he was mediocre as a player. And sure, he didn't actually do anything outside.

of score of a couple of goals in like a week and a half or whatever it was. But he should be in the Hall of Fame because I liked him when I was a little boy. And that's it. That's the whole argument. And it's such classic shit with like older, in much the same way that they're like, well, listen, you know, the miracle on ice is the most important thing to ever happen in the history of hockey. And it's like, nobody gives a shit about the miracle.

on ice. It's 2019. And it's like... That's the whole, that's the whole shavang. The whole argument is... What was you-Hajic's thing about like a dispensation or something? Put fucking Likourzioni in the Hall of Fame then. Put Jim Craig in the Hall of Fame. Jesus Christ.

Like, the guy had three good weeks of hockey in his entire life, like above average weeks of hockey. And, you know, I looked it up because I knew we were going to talk about this. Paul Henderson, and in his NHL career, 1962 to 74 before we jump to the WHA, 27th in total points, and like 75th in points per game. And I just don't, I don't get it, man. I really don't. Like, Jacques LaMere had as many points as him in five fewer seasons in that era.

So what are we talking about? Some other guys who outscored him in fewer games. Fred Stanfield. I don't know who that is. Jim Papin. I don't know who that is. Dennis Hall. Phil Goyette, Pitt Martin.

Like, these are fake names. These are not real people. And they had more points than Paul Henderson. But they didn't score three goals against the Russians and opened the door to international hockey. Like, okay, man. Like, if we want to make a whole new category for people, let's just put in the guys we like a lot.

Let's put it. I don't know. Like, who's a guy now that was just like, Yeah, he may not be that good, but we all think he's swell. I don't know. Like, if Roberto Luongo wasn't an all-time great goalie, but we all liked his Twitter, we could put him in the Hall of Fame. Stupid shit, man.

It really drives me crazy. Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of what Ryan said. I'm kind of failing in my role as the ceremonial Canadian. Ceremonial. I don't, like, yeah, Paul Henderson as a player clearly doesn't have a Hall of Fame case. And as far as what happened at the Summit series, that's an enormously historical moment in hockey history, but that's not an individual moment that that is. And if you go to the Hall of Fame, spoiler alert, the 1972 series is mentioned in a handful of places. It's fairly well represented.

So the Eric Duhatchik piece that you mentioned was interesting to me because if people don't know, Duhacchik was actually on the Hall of Fame Committee for 15 years, so he's got some pretty unique insight into how this works. And what he was pointing out, using Henderson kind of as a vehicle to do that, was that there is an element of this that I think some people don't get, which is that if there are candidates who maybe don't have a strong enough case as a player and maybe also don't have a strong enough case as a builder, but who's combined body of work as both a player and a builder should be enough to get them in. There isn't really a way to do that.

It has to be, in theory, one or the other. One of the people he also mentioned is like Doug Wilson. He's like, well, you know, but first of all, he should be in just as a player. And second, he should be in just as a builder. Right. But make that argument either way. And you could. But there's a lot of people who would say, well, that's, I mean, a lot of people would say, you know, Doug Wilson is, you know, I think Doug Wilson should be in the Hall of Fame, but he's a borderline candidate. There's there's a good argument against him being in. I think the one in favor of him is slightly better, but I, you know, I'm not. Is the one in, is the one in favor of him the fact that he's basically Rob Blake? Well, yes. Yeah, it could be. It certainly could be. I mean, I think he was,

he was a very good defenseman for a long time, but there are a lot of people who would say, okay, if his case is borderline as a player, doesn't the fact that he's had 15 years, years as a GM and a very successful one put him over the top. And the answer, according to Eric DeHachick, is no, it doesn't because those have to be done separately. And his suggestion was, what if there was some sort of combined, you know, once a year award for somebody who had impact as both a player and as a builder in all the different things that encompasses? And would that be, would that solve the issue? And I didn't, you know, I don't think we need that. I didn't find the argument particularly convincing that that's

a necessary change. But I did I thought it was an interesting thought thought experiment even if they're even under those circumstances, there'd probably be better candidates than Henderson. Yeah, it's the boomer shit of like they want a participation for Paul Henderson because he played in the

Summit series, which they all watched when they were kids. And like, I obviously get the nostalgia angle of it, but like you have to accept at some point that like these guys, it's the It's the same thing about the Rangers retiring Adam Graves' number. It's the exact same argument of like, yeah, but we really like him. Okay, well, fine.

But you don't, like, start a new Hall of Fame, you know, like, whatever you want to do. But, like, you can't put Paul fucking Henderson in with the, like, if we're saying Guy Carbono shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame, arguably, like, there is a zero percent case for Paul Henderson, full stop. Yep. I've always said teams, I have no problem with teams retiring any numbers they want.

If it's a popularity contest, no problem. But the Hall of Fame is not that. And I'm with you. I'm a no one. By the way, Paul Henderson, never got a single vote for any award. Yeah. I thought it was kind of cool

when the Rangers retired Graves number, that instead of a number, it was just an x-ray of Mario's wrist. I thought that was pretty cool. Also, the, uh, combination of like your entire career being part of your Hall of Fame case, I think is awesome too, because on top of being perhaps the best general manager of all time, Mike Milbury is one of our greatest broadcasters of all time. So I think those two things combined.

Purple threat. Yeah, and an amazing player as well. I mean, they called them a poor man's Terry O'Reilly. I mean, really wasn't going into the stands to hit someone with the shoe, the first social media. Oh, that's funny. You should say that. So Ruby and I are. watched the Democratic debate. Sorry to hear that. It was the first one. Yeah, I know. It was exhilarating.

A surprising amount of Spanish being spoken. But we were talking about Howard Dean and the notion that's come around again, where if Howard Dean did the scream in 2019, he'd probably win the presidency just because of how widely memed and quoted it would have been. And it's amazing to think back at that moment, because when was that, Ryan? Was that 2000 when that happened? When does that happen? 2004.

2004. Okay. So that's pre-Twitter. That's, you know, like, it is at a time when videos are not passed around the moment in which they happen and are not memed the moment in which they occur. And yet, I think that might have been the first meme. Like, everywhere you went, like, radio stations were doing songs intercut with the scream. Well, like, where's the beef? Like, I mean, you can go back a while.

Like, meme, memes exist. Like memes predate, like, I guess you could say the cave drawings of like the big cows that are disproportionate and weird shaped. Like, those are memes. Okay, granted. Cave drawings probably the first memes. But as far as like something happening that then defined somebody that because of the media that became sort of ubiquitous around that person.

I would also say Dana Garvey's George Bush Nagadeh was like pretty much like. I mean, George Bush. But I'm talking about a real thing that happened. Not like George, George Bush never said, we're like a scorpion. Stang,

staying. Like, that was Dana Carvey. I'm saying this was a real thing that a guy did at a political rally that then defined him. Like it was, he might have said not going to do.

All right. Well, that's the Hall of Fame. Look, if Paul Henderson wants to get in, until further notice, he probably has to buy a ticket. And if you need to buy a ticket,

there's only one place to do it. That was an excellent transition. It was one of the best. free game to that one. That doesn't count. All right. Like 30% of my articles. Just like Paul Henderson.

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That's promo code soup. $10 off your first purchase through Seekek. Get the app today. Shop with Confidence. Seekek, a proud longtime sponsor of this very podcast. Now, we talked about the Hall of Fame. Now we have to go even further back in time to last weekend. As we said on the last edition of Puck Soup, obviously huge things would happen after we did the episode, the weekend of the NHL draft.

And by that, I mean exactly three trades involving players happened at the NHL draft last weekend. It's remotely huge. All right. The draft is what it is. We'll get to that in a second. But let's talk about the Suvan trade. A lot of people have been asking me how big my boner was. significant, I would say.

You know, not like, you know, the first time I watched basic instinct as a kid, you know, large, but pretty big, I'd say, overall. As a Devils fan, this has never happened to us. We've never had a player as famous as BK Suban and his prime, and we've never had a young player as offensively dynamic. Oh, shit. As Jack Hughes.

But he, he's one year removed from being a Norris finalist. Right. And what happened in the year since then? He was bad. He was like actively not good. And look. He was average.

He wasn't bad. He was a little bit better than a replacement player level for his role. But like I think it's a good gamble. But he's not, he's not in his prime. He hasn't been in his prime for like two, three years. Like I said, a star in his prime. A marquee name. a name on the back of the jersey that everyone knows.

And for the Devils, like, it gives them that defenseman they've been looking for, and it gives them somebody on their power play that has a shot worth a damn. And I'm super intrigued to see where it all goes. I do wonder about the math in, like, this is the kind of move that keeps Taylor Hall around. Like, if Taylor Hall signs an eight-year deal, like, Sue Bands only there for the first two years of that deal, because Taylor has one more year left on his contract. So, I mean, it's a nice gesture to be like, hey, we're going to spend money. But, like, I don't quite know if the equation fills out as Suban plus Devils equals Taylor Hall extension necessarily.

Unless they can resign Suban for his age 34 to 40 seasons. Well, that's the trick, isn't it? Sean, what did you think of the Suban trade? I like it. First of all, we should point out the, we are referring. referring to the P.K. Suban trade as broken by Greg Wischinski of ESPN. Thank you. Thank you. With thoughts and prayers for all of the other insiders.

At the draft. Yeah, who now have to compete with me. Yeah. That got me on Sports Center that morning, though. That was pretty cool. They called me up. They're like, did you do something of note? I'm like, yeah. They're like, and you are, I cover hockey. Oh, oh. Right on. So that was kind of fun.

It was, first of all, it was a super fun trade to see unfold in, uh, in, in five stages because nothing happened Friday night. Friday night was dull, terribly dull as far as as the first night of a draft. No trades with players. But then Saturday morning comes along and you hear, first of all, you hear Sue Ben's been traded. Second of all, you hear some of the teams he's not traded to, like Toronto got ruled out and I think there were a few others. Third, you heard New Jersey and then fourth you finally heard the details. And then fifth was an hour later, the NHL announced it on the draft floor and got like no reaction whatsoever because everybody already knew. Like it had been all over the news and everything. That was a weird

decision for them to do that way. But there's probably a reason behind it. I like it for New Jersey. It's worth a shot. You know, Ryan's right. This is, this is not P.K. Suban from a year ago, but a year ago, you wouldn't be able to trade for P.K. Suban. So he's got, it's a big contract, but it's got three years left. That's, you know, we, we talk too much about cap hit and not enough about term. And for a guy like this at this age, three years is about right. And yeah, it's worth, it's worth taking a swing. It might not work. But I think there's a good chance that it does. I think it does move the needle on Taylor Hall coming back. And it, at the very least, based on that, I mean, that weekend between Suban and Jack Hughes, the devils have shot up on the,

watchability charts from, you know, roughly 30th to something much higher than that. Yeah. And they're going to sell a lot of jerseys between Hughes and Suban. Yeah. As I talked to this with Hugh Weber, their president on ESPN and ICE, the other podcast. It's also like incredible to think that this team has been in Norke now for about a decade, right? I think it's been. And maybe a little bit more than that. And like, there's no denying that the part of the equation here, maybe the majority of the equation here,

is the marketing aspect of P.K. Suban. Like, he brings new people to the team. He's his own brand. As Weber pointed out, he has more Twitter followers than half the teams in the league. And the idea that the most famous black hockey player, perhaps that ever played, is now in Nork, New Jersey, in that kind of, community is something that I can't quite conceive what the impact's going to be. Like, it's a pretty incredible moment for that franchise, which to this point, to me,

has been in a force field, as I had a force field around it when it comes to the rest of that community in Norke. So it's a really fascinating move on a lot of levels. And one of the levels we haven't talked about is the fact that the, the reason the Devils won the Derby is because they didn't, like, they didn't get Chatton Kirk. They hadn't reallocated their cap space. They were the team that could give the $9 million. in space that was necessary to get Suban, which I think is a good life lesson for teams like Colorado, for example,

that have a fuck ton of cap space this summer. Yeah, and cap space that now the predators are probably going to go and throw it, Matt Dushain, on a contract that may or may not to make any sense. Yeah. It's a good gamble. You know, he was not that great last year, certainly not worth not. million dollars, but the bet on him to bounce back. And even if he never becomes a Norris-type defenseman again, you know, you're still going to be in good shape with a guy like that as at least

a guy that, you know, does everything on your power play. The argument is that he can't skate anymore and injuries kind of caught up to him. And I totally understand that. But like, if you're going to have someone be your powerplay specialist, it's a pretty good specialist to have, even if maybe $9 million is too much money for that. Yeah. So we'll see if on that. The draft itself, you know, listen,

the German kid was a surprise for me to the Detroit. Ryan, you're more in team with the shit. Surprise for him too. Yeah. Ryan, was there any huge surprises for you on the draft board? I mean, I was shocked that Cole Coughfield, well, maybe shocked is an overstatement, but I was like, I don't understand why he's dropping into the mid-teens like this. And, yeah, obviously, Mo Cedar going sixth overall is like, that, that to me is like a Mark Jankowski-level pick where you see him play well a couple of times and you go, this is the kid. And then, you know, maybe he's a fringe NHL or a few years from now.

And maybe even a few is being generous. It's the thing of when they drafted him, I think it was Pierre McGuire, was like, maybe he's Brandon Carlo. And it's like, yeah, you can't take a maybe Brandon Carlo at sixth overall. Like, come on, man. Like, I like Brandon Carlo quite a bit for what he is. But this was the sixth pick in a deep draft. I don't, I straight up do not understand it. And again, it's one of those things whenever you see a team make a pick like this.

it's not so much that's a bad pick in terms of the player. Maybe he's a better player than people think, but trade down. Why not see if you can move down a couple of spots, get some picks? And that's risky, obviously, because it only takes one other team that likes him to snipe them away from you. But yeah, it was a bit of a surprise, especially when you heard some talk out of Detroit saying they were either, they really liked them and they were going to take them either with the six pick or maybe try to wait until their first pick in the second round,

which is like if you think there's even the slightest chance, he's going to be there early in the second round. That's tough to, yeah, that's tough to use a six pick. But, yeah, I don't know. It's in a way, they may have gotten, they may have been burned a little bit by the lottery here because it feels like maybe there was a fall off after the top. top five picks where, you know, if they'd even been one pick higher, maybe somebody would have really wanted to jump up, but it didn't happen.

Yeah. And then the other one like that was Arizona taking Soderstrom, I think, and they trade it up to do it. Trading up to do it, which is. Yeah, they traded up three spots. And the thing I said at the time was like, you could have traded down three spots and still gotten them. I don't understand.

John Chaka is a guy that I really root for for obvious reasons, but hasn't necessarily gotten the results that you'd probably want for a guy that you root for. And I talked to him after the first round, and he legit said that I wasn't leaving here without, who was the Sotas from? I wasn't leaving here without this kid. And like, he's a foundational player and yada, yada, yada. And all I sure he wasn't saying he wouldn't leave without a soda. the stream.

That makes a little more sense. I think that provides a little bit more value with the number 11 pick. I mean, you're going to say so much money on Seltzer. It legitimately was like when your friend comes to you with like, hey, I just got into this, they're calling it a pyramid scheme, but it's more of an investment opportunity.

Oh, no, John. What are you doing, buddy? All right. The draft was whatever. and the devil's did good, and it'll be intrigued to see what happens. But we need to talk about one of our favorite topics on this very podcast, which is, as the Leafs turn. How does it affect the Maple Leafs? Yeah, the ongoing soap opera in Toronto.

The Marlode deal, they had to give a first rounder to get him off the cap. Oh, boy. That's rough. And no one saw that coming when you gave him that third year. Yes, who could have known that was going to be a terrible, terrible idea other than everybody, the other than Lou Lamar. Among us. Who among us?

And then we have to get into, what is, listen, we're talking about a lot of stuff on this podcast today. We haven't even gotten to Free Agency or Roberta Loango. But I will say right now that this is the greatest fucking story that's happened in hockey in this offseason, which is the transformation of Darren Drager into Paul Marner's megaphone and the acknowledgement of all of Leif's nation that this has happened to the point where whenever

Drager reports on anything Marna related, his mentions are flooded with people just saying thanks, Paul. It's fucking incredible. I've never seen anything like this before. Not even at the peak of the day of known as Darren's

cousin hysteria. Did we get to the point where Drager is completely dismissed? Like he's the fucking Iraqi information minister and everybody just assumes that Paul Marner is parroting information about his son to Drager. It's fucking amazing.

Drager really does have a rep for this because I remember as far back as like the 2013 lock or 2012 lockout where he was just like, you know, a lot of what the players are doing is very unfair. It's sad. You know, like just doing basically Trump tweets about how the PA was

not being rational or whatever. And people getting on them for that and then like you said, like the NONA stuff and now this like, you can, you can, you going to always count on him to take the, let's say, wrong side of these kinds of things to get the scoops. The wrong side of history. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you call him the Iraqi information minister. The problem for Lee fans is the Iraqi information minister was wrong

all the time, and Drager, I think, is pretty clearly right as far as how he's representing what the Marner camp is thinking and what they're trying to put out there. And I got to say this, Like, my hat is off to Mitch Marner's agent and family and the team around him because they have done a stunningly good job of anchoring the conversation about this contract to certain numbers that on their face and based on other contracts that have been signed are it's, it's completely insane where some, not all, but where some fans have landed on this to the, the, point where the Maple Leafs could offer Mitch Marner Nikita Kucharov money. And if you guys don't know who Nikita Kucherov is, he's the reigning MVP who just had one of the greatest offensive seasons in a generation. They could offer him the same money that Kuturav has and people would view it as an insult, like a mortal, awful, terrible thing that shouldn't even be responded to. So I'm amazed.

But great job by them. They have really set the conversation at a very strange place. And it's not good news if you're Kyle Dubus. It's not good news if you're a Leafs fan. But when they're all done this, if they want to come represent me the next time I have to negotiate a deal, I'd be happy to have that. Yeah, indeed. One other thing in the smarter bit, which is the threat by Kyle Dubus that the Leafs won't match an offer sheet potentially. if Marner signs one. And I don't buy it. I think the leaves are very much going to sign and match any offer sheet that that Marner signs.

I don't think they're going to let him leave. I think that is a position of weakness on their part if they don't match it. And I can't imagine that the leaves would ever be in a position of weakness when it comes to the open market. What say you? Well, I've got a couple thoughts on this. First of all, I found it completely fascinating that he did that. Like, I really just even stepping kind of back from my role as a least fan,

because for years, like I'm fascinated by the game theory that goes into offer sheets and how for years part of the reason they never get signed is that every team makes it very clear that they will match absolutely anything, even an unreasonable offer. Teams basically come out and say even if you give, even if you sign a guy to something completely outside of our budget, we will still figure out a way to match it because screw you, that's why. And if everyone says that and you take them at their word, there's no point signing one. All you're doing is burning bridges for a player you're not going to get. But if you take that to the extreme, at some point, players might figure out that, okay,

hold on, if there's no chance, if I know that my team is always going to match, I should go out there, find some other team willing to throw big money at me just to screw over a rival, and they're going to match, and I get my money, and I get to stay where I want. And here's Kyle Duba saying, that won't necessarily work here because maybe we won't match. And I'm with you. I think that there's a good chance that could be a bluff, but it's still very interesting to me that they would sort of apparently view this as one move on the chess board that the Marner camp might be making and kind of take an action to get in front of it. I will say this. There was a good piece on The Athletic this week by Jonas Siegel where he went through the five main scenarios for

Marner, which is they sign him. It turns into something that drags into the season. They trade him. there's an offer sheet that is matched and there's an offer sheet that isn't matched. And he assigned different odds and chances to both of them. And I thought it was very good. But I think there's a sixth option that we're not talking about that I think we should just throw out there because I don't think it's completely out of play. And that is the situation where you get an offer sheet that the Leafs don't, the number is too high for the Maple Leafs, but they don't want to take the draft picks because they're a cup contending team and they can't lose a first line player for nothing.

And so there is the third option, which is you work out a trade with the team that has signed him. You can't trade. The Kessel, the Kessel, well, it's more the Chris Grattan. Kessel was beforehand, right? Kessel was Brian Burke using that hammer, that threat of I'm going to sign an offer sheet to get a trade beforehand, which is also an option. I mean, that's one way or that the Leafs gets spooked and trade him before.

But I'm thinking more of a situation where a team signs them to an offer sheet. It's a big number. It's at the four first round pick level. Kyle Dubest calls that team up and says, look, I can't take four first round picks. I've got a market right now that thinks we're cup contenders. They expect us to contend this year. I can't be just taking all futures. But what if instead of four first round picks?

What if it was two first round picks and a player or two off your roster? Is there something we can do there? because you can't, if somebody signs an offer sheet, you can't trade that player at that point. Like the Leafs, if, you know, the Islanders sign Martiner to an offer sheet, the Leafs can't turn around and trade him to some other team for more. You're locked out of that. And they can't, in theory, even trade him to the Islander. But what they can do is basically make a deal saying, you give us the compensation and then

we trade the compensation back to you for something else, which is what happened with Chris Grattan 20 years ago. I could see that being a scenario where. you know, if there's a number that's too high for the Leafs, but they don't feel like just getting future draft picks is going to make sense. And it's a situation, you say, why would the other team do that? It's because Kyle Dubas says, look, I will match this offer if we can't figure out a better trade, whether I want to or not.

And then you have to decide if you're calling his bluff or not. But there's a way to sort of get to a middle ground. And it might make sense for the team as well, because if they're bringing Mitch Martin in a huge number, they may have guys on their roster they want to move out to help the cap number. So I just, I'm going to throw that out there. I'm certainly not saying it's likely, but it is another option that I think we should,

we should have on the table. I was talking to an agent this week for this piece in the salary cap that ran on ESPN. Yes, it was right. Actually, it was Cody Banks. It was a younger agent. And so the interesting thing. thing about offer sheets, and he stressed this to me is, you know, we all have our theories as to why there are none. His theory kind of speaks to something you just talked about, which is that there's the notion that they're always going to be matched.

But more than that, it's the fear of a general manager to take a huge swing and completely whiff. Because that has repercussions through your own organization, like, oh, you're going for this guy, but we already have this guy. oh, you're going to pay this guy this much? Well, what am I worth now? It not only fucks with the market as far as the money, but it fucks within your own economic structure as well. So there's that. And then plus just the embarrassment of, you know, throwing an offer sheet out there thinking you're going to entice a guy to join your group. And then he fucking says no and just uses you for leverage. I mean, that's a kick in the balls. And then on top of that, you also have the situations that we've seen. And I'm not just talking about barn fight. but like if you if you tender an offer sheet there are this might be part of the old boys network thing but like there are repercussions with your peer group i mean paul holmgren was out of a fucking job two years later because nobody would do business with him after the Weber offer sheet now part of that is the way he went about doing it which is he didn't actually call david poyle before giving the offer sheet to Weber um but it's also the offer sheet itself and there's repercussions

there too so there are a lot of factors why we don't see these things. But I think the ultimate one is the fact that, you know, the assumption is that it'll be matched. And then you look like an asshole. Yeah. And, and, you know, that those are all good points. And the other one, and people kind of forget this part. Like, the player has to sign it. And there's repercussions for the player, too. Like, imagine Mitch Marner, say some team calls them up and goes, yeah, you know what, we, we're buying all this crazy stuff your agent is saying. We're, we're going to give you Austin Matthews money. And he signs that offer sheet and the Leafs match it. and then the Leafs have to trade away, you know, Kisperi Kappanin for nothing because they're over the cap.

And they get out of the gate slow next year. And, you know, suddenly now Mitch Martin, instead of being the local hero, he's the guy who squeezed their cap situation past the breaking point. And Lord help him if he gets off to a slow stern. I mean, you know, I don't know. Darren Dregor told me that that would be Matthew's fault if that happens. You know, I mean, realistically, we'd all blame it on William Nealander. But, yeah, I mean, Marner might want to give Nielander a call and ask them how perceptions can change when you play hardball on a contract and then have a bad season. That's the important part.

You play hard, Austin Matthews played hardball and kept scoring and nobody says a word about it. So it's a pretty fascinating situation. I'm, you know, I'm nervous about it as a Leaf fan. If I wasn't a Leaf fan, I know people who cheer for other teams are sick of the Leafs always being in the spotlight. but this is one where I'd be all over this story because there's still a lot of ways it can go. And I talk to a lot of people at the draft, not that I'm trying to pass myself off as some insider, but there were a lot of people who think that there's a lot of scenarios still on the table on this and that it isn't just the usual, we're all going to make a big noise about it,

and then he's just going to sign a contract and we forget about it. There's a lot of people who think this could still go bad, even more so than it has. So the question is, I guess, like, Who, A, if you're a GM, would you offer Sheet Mitch Marner knowing you got to give up the picks or whatever? But also, you know, who are the teams that you guys think could do that or would do that? Yeah, that's a good question, right? Because you look at who's got 10 plus million in cap space and also, because it does, when you're talking about the first round picks, there's, And this is another issue with offer sheets.

The compensation isn't the same across the league. Four first round picks for the lightning and four first round picks for the senators are massively different prices to pay. But he's also not signing with the senators. I mean, like, that's part of the equation too. No, but like one of if he signs with the Islanders and it's, you know, the 14th pick. The Islanders are twice and the 17th and the 19th or whatever. Yeah. The Islanders are one of those teams that kind of does, you know, it's.

If it was them, I wonder if the least would think about it. Because part of what you're thinking is, okay, we got four first-round picks. Is there a chance this team bottoms out? And we end up getting really high-value picks out of this. And there are a certain team. I mean, there's no team in today's NHL. You can say they're completely bulletproof. There's no chance.

So there's no team you'd say they're definitely going to be bad. But as far as teams that might underperform, an Islander's team that doesn't have a goaltender for next year, or doesn't have its starting goal tender for next year signed yet, I don't know. But you're right. The list isn't very long of scenarios. That's why they should take the picks from the devils because Taylor Hall will be there for one more year so they'll win the lottery. Yeah.

With one of those picks at the very least. Guaranteed. So, yeah, we'll see where it goes. Well, you know what, guys? Speaking of transitions, I only do one a week and I already gave one to Greg. So I don't have to do one for this week's ad brief. That's true. He logicked me into this A-plus.

Absolutely. There it is. Oh, come on. That's horrible. But I will still do the ad because I really want everyone to know that the athletic is a direct to consumer subscription service serving sports fans in North America. The model is simple. There are no ads, no pop-ups, no auto play videos. Instead, you subscribe for authentic in-death coverage written and spoken by journalists who know the league inside and out. You get all your league-wide news from NHL experts like Pierre LeBrun, Katie Strang.

Corey Promin's draft stuff is insane. I don't know how this guy bangs out as much content as he does. If you're a draft type and you haven't already devoured that, you've got to get in on it. You also get local coverage, every team in the league. So you can go to theathletic.com slash soup for a 40% off discount to the athletic. That's theathletic.com slash S-O-U-P, all lowercase, for 40% off. That ends up being about $2.99 a month for more than 1,000 stories published each week as well as audio content. So subscribe right now using the promo code soup, download the athletic app from the app store and come experience the athletic store stories cold in a whole new way.

If you're a draft type, if you're an 18 year old kid from the W-HL, you got to be reading the prong dog. Your name is Connor, K-O-N-N-E-A-R. If you're an 18-year-old prospect from this year's draft and you would like to learn things about yourself that you probably didn't know, go check out Corey Promin. you'll be amazed. If you are future New York Ranger Hunter Skinner and you want to know more about your life. It's a solid name. It's a fucking phenomenal name. The only other name that came closer was there are two Russian kids, one named Arson and one named Arsony, which I think are, you know, kind of the same genre.

That's pretty great. He didn't get drafted, but the Leafs did their prospect camp roster, and they have a guy named Gunner Wolf on there. So that's also pretty solid. I feel like he has an even cooler. Like that's a shorter version of his name. Oh, man. Now I'm going to look it up. Hold on.

All right. Well, Gunner. That would be the greatest. As you're looking it up, it's time for me to announce that this episode does, in fact, have another puck soup quiz. Oh, boy. And this time, it'll be me as the games master with Ryan and Sean competing against each other in a quiz of my choosing.

And this week's quiz. is about the 2018-19 NHL season. It's a quiz I like to call. Did this shit happen in the 2018-19 NHL season? By the way, it's... To clarify, his first name is Gunner Wolf.

Yes. And his last name is Fontaine. Gunner-Wolf Fontaine? Yeah. Holy shit. He plays college hockey. I almost want to have another kid just because I didn't know Gunner Wolf was an audience.

option. That sounds like a character from a Tarantino knockoff in the 1990s. Yeah, he's going to northeastern next year, so I'm going to see plenty of Gunner Wolf Fontaine after his 43-point season with Chicago of the USHL. Scott Kahn is Detective Gunner Wolf Fontaine, a knockabout on the LA club scene. All right. Incredible. Did this shit happen in the 2018-19 NHL season?

Who's the reigning quiz champion? Who gets to go first? I forget. Ryan, Ryan won the last one. Yeah, I won the last one. All right, so you want to kick or receive? I'll receive. All right.

Ryan Lambert, did Eric Stahl score his 400th career goal in the 2018-19 season? I am going to say that he did. That is correct. Eric Stahl, in fact, scored goal number 400 in his illustrily. career on November 3rd against the, for the Minnesota Wild. So Ryan, you sir, are a 1-0-0 leader in this incredible quiz. And we go to Sean. Sean, hit me.

Was Brad Marchand suspended in the 2018-19 NHL season? I don't think he was. I'm going to say no. That's correct. Brad Marshall was in fact last. to spend it on January 23rd to the 2017-18 season for concussing future teammate Marcus Johanson. So there you go.

All right. We go, Brett. Ryan, did the Chicago Blackhawks fire assistant coach Ulf Samuelson in the 2018-19 season? Shit, they did fire a coach, did they not? I feel like I read that somewhere. Yeah, he probably got fired with Quenville, right? That is correct. Both Olfie and Kevin Deneen were both dumped on their arses when Joel Quinville was fired by the Chicago Blackhawks and then staggered around Chicago until he found a bunch of Bears fans having a shatsky.

That's a lot of Hartford Whaler content in one firing. Right, yeah, that's a lot. That's right. All right. So this is a fucking barn burner of a quiz so far. Number four, Sean, did Patrick Marlowe score his 1,200th NHL career point in the 2018-19 season? He did not. He is still chasing that milestone.

Boy, that is correct. And I have to believe that Ryan choosing to receive cosmically gave you that question. You know what? That's not even me being a leaf fan. I wrote about his Hall of Fame case this week. Oh. And I think I set that as like a bar that he might need to get to. He's at 1166.

So he needs to get... So he's about three more seasons away at his rate of production. 34 more points skating on the wing of Sebastian Aho, obviously. But is one season away, I believe, from being third on the all-time games played list. And still, if he keeps playing pass, that has a chance to have played more games. than any NHL player, including Gordy Howe, which is crazy to me, but here we are. All right, so 2-2 in this quiz, again, a barn burner. Ryan, did the Anaheim Ducks bring back their original Mighty Ducks logo in the 2018-19 season?

They brought back the logo, but they didn't bring back the jerseys. They brought back like an updated version of the jerseys with the more team color shit. So yeah, they did. The answer is no. They actually bought back the original Mighty Ducks logo in the 2015 season, if you'll remember those orange jerseys. That was a trick question then, was it not? Yeah, it was not. No, it definitely was.

So more shit again. Great. All right, Sean. All right. Did Jonathan Quick reach 300 career wins in the 2018-19 season? Oh, God. I'm going to say. I'm going to say no.

The answer you were looking for was yes. On January 5th, he became the 17th goalie in NHL history to reach the milestone before playing 600 games. So that means we're still tied to two, too. So, Ryan, you don't have to be angry at me anymore about these alleged trick questions. He has the option. He'll get to the end and find out, won't we? All right. Ryan, did noted goal scoring winger redeem verbata retire.

in the 2018-19 season. In the season? During the span of the season, from September through Huno. Huno? What's the Spanish for June? Did not take Spanish in high school.

Julio is July. I think Huno is June. I think he retired last summer, right? When he was with Florida. He only played like half the season last year, if I'm not mistaken. So is that a yes or no?

Yeah, he retired. During this season. Oh, no, no, no, no. Sorry. Okay. I thought that's what you were saying. The answer, of course, is no. He retired on April 7, 2018, last year, last season, technically.

So now we are in potentially the end game, according to Stephen Strange. There is a tiebreaker. So, Sean, if you get this correct, we will go into a sudden death overtime. him. Here we go. All right. Sean, was Jack Eichel, Jack Eichel, named Captain of the Buffalo Sabres in the 2018-19 season? Was Jack Eichael named captain? Why do I think that, okay.

He is the captain, but like in the season? I'm de captain. When does the season begin? Like, are we talking training camp or are we? Yeah, training camp is part of it. But I don't listen to Ryan. No, no, no, no, it's fine. Like the whole shebang.

September, beginning of training camp through this moment right here right now. Yes, I think I don't think they did it during the off season. Yes. That is correct. Jack Eichel was in fact named Buffalo Sabers captain officially this season. So here we go, folks. Wait, when was that? Because I don't remember, like, I remember, I know he's the captain, but I don't remember what happened.

Are you using your challenge on this? No, no, no, I'm just wondering. I'm just wondering because I, like I said, I know he's the captain, but I don't remember when it was. Like I was like in camp. It was definitely after last season because last season I think they had a rotation of captains. And then he was named the official captain this year. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Okay.

Oh boy, here we go. Tiebreaker. Now, I have the tiebreaker, but I want to establish between you guys through some. some careful negotiation. The tiebreaker is a specific number. How do you, what rules do you want to play by? Do you want to play Price's right rules where you can't go over? Or do you want to play closest to the T?

I'm going to say have, have one of us pick a number and the other one just goes over or under. I think that's the first way to do it. Because if we go prices right, then the second person is just going to go like, right. Ryan's got home ice advantage. So you give me the number. Okay, ready? And you might know it.

I don't fucking know. Apparently, you know, Sean knew a number before. Does a little bell go off and he gets a kiss if he gets it exactly right? Okay, now we're talking. Here we go. Sean gets, I mean, Ryan gets a thousand dollars and gets to answer another question for the potential to win up to $10,000. How many points did noted Edmonton Oilers sniper Milan Lude, Cheech have in 79 games in the 2018-19 season.

How many points of Lu Cheech have? 32. Over or under, Sean. Wow, that was an oddly confident and specific guess. I, I, no, he was, Melan Lucich was bad. I know he didn't score any goals, but I feel like he wasn't exactly where I'm under. Give me the under. So you're going to say under 32 points.

And once again, our winner is down goes brown. The answer we're looking for was 20 points in 79 games for me. Worth every penny. Although he did improve his shooting percentage from 6.8 to 8.1 by scoring six goals in 79 games. Ryan, that was an amazing poker play right there. I thought that your bid with confidence was going to shake Sean to his very core. How about this? The year before, I just, I'm looking at it now, he had 34 points. I was very close to. You're very close to, last year to 2017-18, Milan-Luch.

Hell of a quiz. Hell of a performance, boys. That was really fun. And congratulations again. Interesting. Yeah, Dagoes Brown wins again. Ryan obviously robbed again, Russian interference once again in this election. That's right. I'm going to do some game theory about this one. Love the game theory. Post one of 110. All right.

So we have a couple more topics to hit on. Roberto Luongo retires. You retired the day before we did this very podcast. I mentioned this in my column this week. I don't know if there's another athlete that I can think of who rehabilitated his image or maybe just changed the conversation about himself using the virtues of social media more than Roberto Luongo did. A boring poster. That's why I have to respect him more than any.

else. The man was born to post and yeah, incredible at it. Incredible at it. And also, like, it's funny, I look back at it. Do you know what his first tweet was on Strombone 1? The October after he lost to the Bruins.

And I'm wondering to myself, amazing. Did, like, did he just kind of like, you know, Game 7, was he just like a fucking nihilist after that and just said, all right, I'm just going to have some fun with this shit now? Like, he was kind of like a prickly guy a little bit. leading into that series and during that series,

and he didn't have the greatest reputation, and then he became like the funnest guy in the fucking world after that. Which is a low bar in the NHL, but still... And the other thing with that is, like, if people either forget this, or maybe if they weren't around back then, like there was that whole period where he... Like, the account was out there, but it was not known whether it was him,

and it was... Some people thought it was, but he wouldn't confirm. it and like it feels so ridiculous now that like an athlete having a Twitter account where they occasionally post jokes and is self deprecating humor like is the idea that that that had to be hidden away and was like this secret thing that that it's one of the newspapers had to crack and confirm that it was actually him. It's just so weird. But yeah, you know, great goalie. The only thing that I don't like about the social media is I feel like. Like that's, people are talking about that over the fact that he's one of the greatest goaltenders of all time.

Oh, yeah. And of this era, and, you know, it's kind of, to my mind, it's sort of like him and Lundquist for the post-broder Wahassick title. And he should be in the Hall of Fame as a no-doubt-or first ballot, no questions asked guy. And I hope that he is. And I'm going to say this, though. I think that him being so popular on social media helps his case. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, he had the resume before he started posting.

But he really, like, became a beloved figure in the sport, which, you know, helps, obviously. Specifically because he talked about, like, shitting during a, an overtime game or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I think that I think that everybody was like, you know what? We do like Roberta Luongo. Oh, and also, yeah, he's phenomenal. So, like, I agree with you that, like, even if he never tweeted once, he should be a Hall of Famer. But, like, this is what makes him a no doubt about it guy for me.

Because it wasn't so long ago that, like, even Jerome McGinla, people were like, I don't know. He didn't win shit, you know, like, which is insane. But, like, that's how. Yeah, that's how hockey people think, though. So, like, I think the being a good guy of it helps, and the parkland thing helps and all that. Like, for me, you know, Loloch Monster's legend, Roberto Luongo. But, yeah, obviously.

I also think that, like you said, I mean, as far as, like the new guy thing or whatever, it's a good guy thing, like, it's the self-deprecate. that really did it for me. Rare is the athlete that can kind of take the piss out of himself, especially like, you know, posting pictures of him staring at the red light behind him and shit. Like, it was that level of self-deprecation

that, to me, made him incredibly appealing. To the point where when he gave the famous, my contract sucks speech, you knew where it was coming from. Like, it, there was a, there was a, level of honesty about this guy that was really startling and

really great. And it goes without saying that that continued through his stuff from Parkland and Snowman Douglas and all the stuff about the shooting that happened in the place where he lived. You know, the

Golden Knights obviously got a ton of great recognition for their work in Vegas after the shooting on the strip. But But Luongo taking the mic as he did during that Panthers game is just as important. And I don't think gets talked about enough that this, you know, megastar athlete took a moment to just basically, you know, get on a soapbox and talk about gun reform. It was, it was fantastic. Yep.

And by the way, one more great save by Luongo, he prevented the Vancouver Canucks from being able to sign Tyler Myers to $7 million. Or did he? Let's find out. In theory, because of the capture. By the way, great post from last night about it. Harvey Fialkov, who covered the Panthers for Miami Herald, maybe? One of those. Yeah, Sunsetinal. Okay.

If Panthers don't go analytics crazy three years ago before reversing and kept Galant, I believe Luongo and this offense would have made a deep playoff run by now. Yeah, Harvey's a real beauty. Unbelievable take. Dave Boland really driving them right to all the success they needed. I'll always remember Luongo from the Tim Thomas series. That series remains the single funnest thing I've ever covered in the NHL. That was awesome.

And I just wonder, as Sean mentioned, I think he's going to be a Hall of Famer. I just wonder when he gets a chance to speak, will James Duthy actually have written the speech? Is my question. That's possible. For those who don't know, that was the conspiracy theory about his Twitter feed in the early days of the internet was that James Duthy was actually the one running. There was photo evidence to suggest that that was the case.

Yeah. Yeah. But that, Luongo actually DM me during that to say, hey, dude, James isn't doing the Twitter feed, which I thought was also a really interesting thing to care about. if you're a pro athlete. But that's neither here nor there. Lose the best and we wish him well. And hell of a career.

Like Sean said, not to be defined by social media, but by accomplishments on the ice. Hey, Sean, do you have any thoughts on this Bob McAwan leaving Sportsnet bit? Only that it's very big news in Canada and certainly if he grew up in Toronto.

I mean, I grew up listening to Bob McCowan before there was even a sports station. He was back in the late 80s I think it was. He was the guy that the local classical music station turned over like an hour of airtime a night to just sports. And that was sort of them dipping their toe in the water.

There were probably at that point a couple of sports stations. Like I'm guessing in New York had theirs. But it was still a pretty new thing. And he killed it. I mean, he was a fantastic interviewer and was always great at getting top level guests. and he was eventually the kind of the temple that they built that first sports station around and now all these years later in Toronto there's two sports radio stations and two sports networks and all sorts of media and that didn't happen because of him but if he had had

you know if he had failed early on it would have been a much different map and instead he he killed it and continued to kill it for decades, even when he maybe didn't want to anymore. He was something else. So it's going to be very, very strange to see a Toronto and a Canadian sports media landscape that does not prominently feature bomb account. Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating. And he goes, Doug McLean goes, a bunch of other changes at Sportsnet, which had been sort of

predicted by a lot of people once they got the rights that they'd have to kind of roll back on some high-priced talent at some point. But yeah, McCowan leaving. And I guess the other thing about McCown-Leaven is that it happens at a time when the TSN station has finally found an afternoon show that's a worthy challenger to what he was doing. I mean, from everybody that's in Toronto that tells me about this shit, overdrive seems like it's geared towards a younger audience. It's definitely more hockey smart than McCowan show was.

And so it happens at a time when the competition seems like it caught. up a little bit in his latter years. And that's, I mean, that's, that's part of it, right? Because McCowan was very, very well paid. And when you're paid that much, you're expected to, to dominate. And if he wasn't doing that anymore, then you can understand how the numbers worked. And I look, and Bob McCown for years and years and years has said that the end was going to come eventually, and he was going to make a big deal out of it.

And he will probably zip off into retirement and have a lot of fun doing some of the other things that he seemed to have passion for. So it's, yeah, it was, it was all sorts of fun while it lasted, and he was, he was a fantastic, fantastic guy to grow up listening to. Speaking of moving on, the incomparable Luke Decoq says that the hurricanes are buying out Marlowe, according to Don Waddell. So not a big surprise there. That's kind of why they acquired him.

They paid, yeah, they were just buying a first round pick for $4 million, basically. Yeah, it's going to be fascinated to see if he goes back to the sharks on like a really, really low, like Brad Richards, the Chicago million dollar contract kind of thing. Because that seems like the only spot that he really wants to end up in, right? Yeah, that's what everybody's saying, yeah, is that like he's just going to go back to San Jose and they're going to figure out a way to make it work. And if he has to take, you know, 750K or whatever, like, you know, he's doing fine. It's not a big deal. All right. So the Pucksu question of the week was give us your bold predictions for NHL free agency, which obviously opens up officially on July 1st. Trent writes in, that's not a question. That's very true. I did not state it the formal question. It was more of a statement. And that's a show for this week. No, I'm kidding.

Zach, Zach writes in, Vancouver signs Jake Gardner, who immediately retires from hockey upon realizing he signed with Vancouver. Now, that's not fair. Vancouver's got a lot of things going on over there that seem like they're on the up and up. They've got some things to build around. Yeah, as long as they don't sign Tyler Myers, they're going to be in great shape. Rebellious yet repressed writes in, Patrick Linae gets an offer sheet. The Jets don't match, which forces Down Goes Brown to watch more horrid jet songs on YouTube from 1987. I would love to.

Just to be clear, it's the capitals who do the horrid songs. It's the Jets who do the horrid commercials. So there's a little bit of overlap there, but yeah, they're weirdly, like, frighteningly pro-white ad campaigns are well worth watching. Sad Sends fan says that Nashville or Winnipeg do something dumb and panic sign a free agent to far too much money. Nashville will very much do that. Yeah. Fucking traded P.K. Zuban in order to do that. That's the whole point of the survey trade is.

We want to spend an insane amount of money on someone who isn't worth it. Yeah. Mark says that Tyler Myers becomes the highest paid third-parring defenseman in history. That would be true by definition, which is that he is a third-paring defenseman. But if Vancouver signs him, he's clearly not going to be a third-parring defenseman. He'll be completely miscast. Yeah, 100%. He'll be the Zadano Char to some, you know, Quinn Hughes's Charlie McAvoy, etc.

Except, you know, Zan O'Char at 42 is still good. Right. Nathan says somebody actually signs with Ottawa. Well, I mean, listen, there's a finite number of jobs. Brian Kobal writes in, Mitch Marner re-signs with Toronto, thereby ending the league-wide campaign of unfairness directed towards hockey players from Ontario. Sean Crocker says, Pat Maroons signs the Blackhawks. I know Maroons UFA. I got to imagine

the blues seem like the kind of team that keep him around, right? For like pennies in the dollar? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, like, I think there's going to be a lot of, like, a decent amount of interest in him in a, let's say, David Backus type way where he, I don't think he's going to get that kind of money, but like, teams are going to look at him and be like, that's a rings in the room kind of a... Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that.

Because I think that's Carl Gunnerson. Like, I think Carl Gunnorson rings in the room, a fucking overtime goal in the final. Like someone's going to pay him like $4.5 billion a season to be like, look upon our by the bathroom. By the room, we need the bathroom where you can just pee next to your coach. That's right. They're down a goal late, like entering the third period of a game seven. They're like, Carl, go take your dick out by the coach and tell him what you're going to do.

Well, when you put it like that. He's like, he's not even in the bathroom yet. This is awkward. Michael Holme writes in Toronto signs Anders Lee, who tweets a picture of himself in actual leaves pajamas rather than just bedsheets. Ouch. Anders Lee is a fascinating player because he's really fucking good. And I wonder who's going to ante up to get a guy that can score that many goals without the necessity of playing with John Tavares or anybody of that nature. Yeah, it's interesting.

I mean, look, that's the big question for the Islanders is how many of these people they can keep. because people are saying, oh, you know, they took a step in as an organization, blah, blah, blah. If they lose Robin Lennar, if they lose Anders Lee, I mean, I know they kept Jordan Everley, but Jesus. Lee would be a huge, I got to believe Lanner is going to come back, but Lee would be a pretty impactful loss. Yeah, I agree. I mean, they didn't score any goals last year, and they had him. Well, I mean, the math changes if they actually do sign Panarin, but, like, Lee is a real. Lee's a really, really solid citizen for them.

You know what I always say is you can only have a finite number of good forwards. Indeed. And also like the idea that a team's going to lose its captain in consecutive offseason. This is pretty fucking stunning. Haven't seen something lose this many captains since the USS Kelvin. That's a Star Trek, right? Matt Duchyne. All right.

So this is Life of Jord. Dushain to Montreal, just so we can see. see Nashville trade away a fantastic D-Man for nothing. That's pretty funny. Dushain visited Montreal. He's visited Nashville. Everyone that, and Sean, you were probably in the same boat as me. Literally everybody I talked to the draft said that Dushan to Nashville is a foregone conclusion.

Yeah, I would imagine so. But congratulations to Montreal on getting a center to come and visit them this summer. That's progress. Yeah, look, and if you're Matt Dushan, take the meeting. You get like some free sandwiches out of it, not bad. Every player should be doing meetings. And I know we ran over the Mitch Marner thing, but can we just say that every RFA should at least be pretending to talk to teams?

It's crazy that like Marner's the first guy to do it in years. They should all be, even if it's a bluff, like pretend you're on the phone with all of these guys. I don't know, Kyle. There's so many good offers here. I'm really thinking. But like that's just like business 101 shit. Like don't take them. Don't negotiate it.

against yourself. I love the NHL gives, like it stacks the deck against these guys and then like offers them this little tiny like small sliver of leverage and half the guys are like, no, that's okay. We won't pass it. I wouldn't want to be a bad teammate. I'm going to not do that. If I was a middling free agent, I would still treat myself like I was the best free agent. Like if I was Jordy Ben, I would totally like invite teams to pitch to me. Honey.

I'd invite teams to pitch. I'd be like the shittiest table at a job fair, but I'd still invite people to pitch to me and tell me why I should sign with their teams. And then they could bring me, like you said, sandwiches. That's all I'm really out for. All right. As far as our own thoughts on this matter, I'm going to go down the list right here. We're going to give some brief predictions, as we will know in a few days whether we are correct or wrong. Sergei Birovsky, where does he go, boys?

Florida. Yeah, I think that makes too much sense. I'll go Florida as well, although I do wonder if the Lainer, I think Elliot pointed this out, if the Lainer contract waiting game is related to maybe the Islanders trying to do the package deal with Bobrovsky and Panarin, which would be interesting. Lainer should wait just because if Bavrovsky gets 10, he can go, I ain't better season than that guy did, so something to think about. it still would be interesting to see if he ends up.

Like Carolina is very much clearly going to acquire a goaltender of some sort. Yes. And so it'll be interesting to see. Oh, what a heel turn. That would be for Lainer. The team that swept you out of the playoffs, you're like, see you later, boys. Oh, right? Exactly.

That would kick ass. Matthew Shane, we said Nashville. Jake Gardner, I'm going to go, man. I think I think there's a chance that that he ends up in in Montreal I can go Montreal

or Detroit will be my two choices for Jake Gardner I was thinking Detroit and now I got to look at Cap Friendly and see if my other thing that makes sense maybe Minnesota they could use them

Oh yeah Minnesota feels like the team that's going to get rejected by a whole lot of people Oh yeah that's definitely stupid money I mean it's already happened a couple times Although Minnesota is pretty stacked up on D where, you know, Dumba and Spurgeon and Brodeen and Souter, obviously. Paul Fenton wouldn't do anything that didn't make sense.

Well, I mean, look, like, Gardner's better than maybe all of those guys. Yeah, he's good. Gardner's a real good player. Yeah, he's a really good player, yeah. But they have the cap space and, you know, they need somebody who can get that power play going. Joe Pavelski. I know, this is a tough one. So he's met with Dallas, he's meeting with Tampa.

As I said before, like on ESPN, I would fucking love to see him with the lightning. Because from what the lightning did this postseason to what Pavelsky does in the postseason, that motherfucker could have a transformative effect on that team. When you're a team. They really need the help, right? When you're a team that can't get over the hump in the playoffs, what you need to do is going. and get the captain of the San Jose Sharks. It is not his fault.

He bleeds for that team, sir. And then just whatever he says, just do the opposite and you're going to be all set. But dude, just from a simple net front presence score the dirty goals fucking kind of aspect. Like, he's great. Yeah, he's great. You know who could you, who could use Patrick Marlow? Pavelsky. Joe Pavelsky, your Stanley Cup champion, St. Louis Blues.

Ooh. Oh. There you go. Another one. They have, they have, they have, they need to upgrade the top six a little bit, I think. Let's just have the... I want an entire offseason of just guys signing with the team that beat them.

Yeah, he'll turn. Full Mary and host a plan where you're just like, no, man, that's it. I'm in. That'd be a good one. I still think that... Even though the numbers don't seem like they could work, I still see them back in San Jose. I feel like this is one of those...

You're going to walk to the brink and then everyone's going to decide it makes more sense. Yeah, I think I kind of agree with that as well, but that's not what I want to happen for sure. No. I'll go, I'll go Dallas, and I, but I do appreciate the evoking of the Greg Wyshinsky players just stay where their stuff is, uh, clause. Yeah. When it comes to unrestricted free agency. And finally, the, the big dog, the head cheese, the head honcho, numero uno, are Temi Panarin. Where does he end up? Also Florida. I don't, I don't, I don't, I think all the other stuff is just kind of, you know, he gets to go back. He gets to stay with a teammate.

There's more than one Russian guy on that team, as a matter of fact. It's a really nice place to live from what I understand. He gets to reunite with Joel Quinville, and they're going to be able to throw a shitload of money at him. I think it all just makes too much sense. I think I was on the radio twice yesterday, and they asked me that question, and I said Florida, and then the second time I said the Rangers, so I'm going to say the Islanders. There you go.

Nice, very good. I will say the New York Hockey Rangers. I think the Rangers are going to sign them. I do. JD is getting it done. Yeah, JD getting it done. It's a really fucking, you know, if you go to sunrise and see the Panthers operation,

and then you go to, oh, I don't know, New York fucking city where you can then spend the next years of your life playing on Broadway for the Rangers, a team that will clearly be pretty damn good within the span of at least two years. I think it's going to be the Rangers. It's always been either Miami or New York for this guy or Chicago, and I think at the end of the day, it'll end up being New York, and I think you'll end up being the Rangers.

Yeah, somebody please invite me on the radio so I can say Chicago, because I forgot about them. And battened down the fucking hatches in that Metro Division. By God. Oh, my God. Yeah, I was writing about what if Florida gets both Bavrovsky and Panera. And, like, you know, I think they instantly become at least a borderline playoff team. But also, they'd still probably only be the fourth best team in their division.

And their own division, yeah. And that, but then it's like, oh, and then also you maybe have to be like the sixth best team in the east to get even into the, into the wild card because of how good the metro is going to be. Like, that's, that's wild, man. It's totally wild. And then, like, you know, I was on the radio and Buffalo, we're all doing radio shit. I was on the radio and Buffalo this week and they were asking you about the Sabres. And I'm just like, yeah, they could do X, Y, Z.

But then you look at their roster, like, oh, they are exponentially worse than at least 10 teams in their own conference. Holy shit. All right. That's a fuck super. They do. They certainly do. So that's Puck Suit for this week. Our thanks to Seek and the Athletic for sponsoring the show.

Mailbag on the Patreon bonus episode coming up on the Patreon. Spoiler warning. Analytics 101 was the winner for this month. And it's not just going to be us talking about analytics. It's going to be somebody who actually knows a thing or two about analytics as well. So do check that out. And then next episode we'll tell you about several plans. We've got at least one more iTunesy episode to wrap.

wrap up Free Agency on the docket. We'll see what happens after that. And then, yeah, we'll talk to you guys soon. Any plug-a-roos? Me and Emily will be in Bristol for July 1st with Chris Peters doing various and sundry video things around Free Agency. What's up with you guys? Yeah, hit the Puck Soup newsletter.

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