Puck Soup - How Many Goaltending Controversies?

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Sean and Ryan talk about the state of the Cup Final, potential coaching changes, the Dylan Larkin trade demand, and more. Get bonus episodes and more at Patreon.com/PuckSoup Sponsored by Raycon (buyraycon.com/puck) and Mint Mobile (mintmobile.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic, although I have demanded a trade away from the athletic. Uh-huh. But I will only go to 2013 Grantland. That's it. So they better figure it out, man. Yeah.

Well, we're going to talk about that later because first, we actually have the continuation of what I would call a phenomenal Stanley Cup final so far. Although I don't think the coaches would call it that. That is how you know it's good. That's exactly right. Every single game, someone's like, why don't we give up like a two, three goal lead? They go, okay.

And then the other team goes, can we maybe score enough goals to tie it up very easily? And the other team goes, yeah, of course. The newsletter has not gone out as of right now as we're recording this. but I have a section in the newsletter where I'm asking, like, is this on track to be the best Stanley Cup final of the cap era of all time, or should we just start talking like best playoff series? Yeah, I already said. We're three games in.

We're three games in. I think the analogy I use is this is like having a perfect game through five innings. Like, long way to go. And obviously Vegas wins this in. five, which is very possible, then it's not going to be remembered as a great series. But through three games, like, I don't know what box you would want to check other than maybe some more bad blood, but there's time on that.

Like, the rest of this has been so insanely good. Even the crappy parts have just been there to set up something amazing. Yeah, like when Carolina goes down 4-0 in game 3 and Mitch Marner is just having like the period of the playoffs ever maybe? Hard to think of a guy having a better period than that. The Miko ran in a period last year was probably tops it, but it's up there. I mean, it was a natural hat trick in seven and a half minutes or whatever it was. I think it was five something. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, one of them deflected in off a guy. But regardless, I mean. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, we'll get into the quality of the third goal of his hat trick in a minute. But, and you're like, okay, well, this game's over. I guess I'll just watch it because there's nothing else to watch. And then Carolina scores three goals on three straight shots.

And suddenly you're like, hold on a second. And there was a penalty shot that didn't work and blah, blah. blah, blah. I didn't see this, but apparently on, or I missed it or something, on one of the broadcasts, they were like, this is what I love about Mitch Marner, he doesn't miss a thing, like this guy, he's got the hockey IQ of Einstein, you know, Galileo, like, all these guys rolled into one. Nobody's ever been smarter.

And then after the game, they're like, what was up with that penalty shot? He's like, I didn't know they changed goalies. Oh, that is a. Amazing. Oh, I thought that was so fucking funny. I kind of love that. All right. So, um, changing goalies.

Yeah. What are you doing? You going back to the kid or you're going back to Freddie? You can't go back to Freddie, man. He turned back into it. This is, okay. Freddie Anderson, horrible this year in the regular season. Borderline unplayable, which is why Brandon Bussie got 38 starts or whatever the number was.

This guy wasn't in the NHL last year. And they're like, we have to start this kid. And then he rips off whatever, 14 wins in a row to start his career. And, you know, his numbers come down to earth a little bit after that. But he's right around league average. And they're like, Frey Anderson, 870, 880, something like some crazy number that you wouldn't, you wouldn't think would be the end. Of course, this is the guy that's starting every playoff game for us, right?

And through three rounds, he's like a 930 goalie. And now I actually got to pull it up really quickly, but through the first three games of the fourth round, he's like an 860 goal. Yeah. And, you know, you never, it feels bad to go, okay, we have to change our goalie because this guy, I'm sorry, I said 860. 815, 815 is the safe percentage in the Stanley Cup final here. You just can't, if they're getting even passable goal tending, this is a 3-0 series right now, right? I'm not saying I disagree with you,

but you're also, you're talking about a rookie who's never had a playoff start. Mm-hmm, that's right. And now the whole Stanley Cup final is resting on, on the, kid. Yes. You're good with that? It's either that or a goalie who is 8.15 right now, man. That's it.

You got to choose between the two best options, right? It's not, there's not a perfect one. I hate this in a sense because, like, this is the end of Freddie Anderson. Oh, yeah. Like, in Carolina, at least, and maybe just, what a brutal. Like, three games ago, he was. the Kahn-Smith frontrunner. Yeah.

If Carolina won. Yep, probably right. And now we're talking like, I don't necessarily want to say career over, but I... And look, you can chalk it up to it's a bad week. I don't know, man. Like, you know, you can say it's a bad week. But it's a bad week on the biggest possible stage.

And the bad week is way more in line with... Maybe it's even beyond, like, so beyond. bad that you can't even say it's in line with what he's done the last two years he hasn't been a 900 goalie in two seasons right and 900 now is a lot different than 900 five years ago but again like i just i and we got to say this too he gets bumped in the head on uh on saturday night and then he gives up four goals of very in quality, let's say. But there's no concussion spotter and there's no, you know, like, if you want to say he got his bell rung, who am I to disagree?

But they kept him in the game, you know, at least for another period and a half or whatever it was. And we should say, as we're recording this, we haven't had like morning skates or press conferences. But he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, wasn't it practice yesterday? Correct. part of me wonders if he's just not dressed and they're like, yeah, he's actually hurt because that was...

Which makes everybody involved not look very good. Yeah, I mean, goalies are always the weird outlier of the concussion protocols because they never ever pull a goalie, even like, goalies get hit and like go down and roll around and hold their heads and then pop right back up and everyone's like, yeah, you're fine.

I don't know if he was fine or not. But, you know, look, the time he got run over, they scored on that, it got called goalie interference. It was the most obvious goaltender interference. Even people who love to do the nobody understands goalie interference bit were like, yeah, that's coming back. But Vegas has had two other disallowed goals in this. Like, the numbers are maybe flattering.

Yeah. To Freddie Anderson. Like, because, I mean, those ones still, like, particularly the tying, like, the Tortorella challenge that didn't work, like, that was just a goalie not knowing where a rebound was. So that's, it's even, it's kind of even worse than the numbers say. I just hate, I think this was such a great story that, like the reclamation. Oh, yeah.

Like you said. easy con smyth pick if Carolina won. He was 9.30 through three rounds. That's all you're looking for from any goalie in the world. 9.30. That's crazy how good that is. But it's just to me it's one of those things of what's more likely that he's a below average goalie again? Or that like the first three weeks of the playoffs are what he's, what he really is as a player.

And obviously we know the answer to that. So I think we do. But with that having been said, let's say he was 870 something in the regular season, 870 gets them, has them at three, up three games to none. Because Carter Hart, he's 864. And 864 is incredibly bad. It's this guy isn't playable in the regular season bad. So, you know, like the door is open. They just,

uh, Anderson's just not allowing them to step through it. I think you've, I think you've sold me. Yeah. And I think Rod Brandemar's already sold. Because he, he got asked yesterday and said that he knows who he's starting,

but he doesn't want to say. Yeah, and why would he? Of course. And why would he? But also, like, you would think if you're sticking with your veteran guy, if you're going to continue to dance with the girl,

what brung you? you would say that. Maybe. But also, like, why tip your hand? You'd want to give the big vote of confidence as opposed to let it seem like you're lingering or whatever. Whereas if you're switching. Yeah, but like if you give them... And trying to keep pressure off a rookie.

If you give him the vote of confidence behind the scenes, that's arguably better than... That's possible. But regardless, like, why would he say one way or the other? He just has no incentive to do so. Mm-hmm. So, you know, that's... And especially since, like, I know people, a lot of times with this, you sort of roll your eyes, like, oh, what are they going to practice differently based on... Bussy and Anderson are very different goalies.

Mm-hmm. It actually, this could be one of the few times where it does make... Like, Granger's got a good piece where he's talking about how there actually is a difference here. Like, like, Bussie's a lefty. Yep. Which means he catches right. Which makes it even funnier that Marner was like, oh, they changed goals. Which makes it very funny that Marner didn't pick up on that.

Like, do you think maybe on the way in, he realized, like, hold on? I don't know. Wait a say. Did I do the thing where I left the filter on and now it's like, it's flipped the image? Did I hate when I do that. Now my, the words on my shirt are probably backwards. But, yeah, so, I mean, it is something that does change a lot. And we should say, the other reason you go to Bussie is he faced 19 shots,

including several really high danger chances. And the only goal that beat him was one that came off the end boards and hit him in the back. Yep. So, like... Which sucked. That was such a bad way to... Boy, it really... just felt like whatever

whatever goal won that game was going to be unwatchable though you know what I mean like yeah it was going to hit three guys and trickle in or something like that it was not trending toward the most beautiful goal you've ever seen is what wins this

those those two teams were worn out it seemed like so and look it was in double overtime so that makes sense but The other thing I wanted to say, though, is that I think it's fair to say, Carolina, despite the, you know, the disparity in who is winning the series or whatever. Carolina has outplayed Vegas in this series. Would you say that? Taking it as a whole?

I don't know that I would. I mean, they have been, I mean, they've been way behind for big chunks of the last two games. I mean, you don't, I don't think you can necessarily just take that away. I mean, you're right on balance. It's probably leaned Carolina, but I don't think they've been far and away better. Again, the being behind, though, whose fault is that? Well, I mean, it is, it is on Freddie, but then it can't all be there. No, I agree.

They've given up some. You know, he gets, like, the, the, the. The second goal that Marta, like the first Marner goal that he actually scored, second one he got credit for. Like he comes in on a partial break, either gets stopped or shoots wide, and then gets the puck back and gets like almost another half break and scores.

Like that, somebody's got to play some defense. Yeah. That's not all on the goal. Yeah, I think, um, God, I think it was Walker who was maybe the guy who was at fault on, on that second Marner or the one you're talking about.

But, like, you know, there were definitely some bad giveaways. I'm not saying there weren't, but, like, I don't know. I just think that, like, there have been longer stretches, let's say, where they've been the dominant team

and it felt like, oh, maybe a goal's coming. Whereas, like, with Vegas, it was, it felt a little more. more like, um, yeah, you know, the puck just, uh, keeps going in the net form. And look, with the, the thing that makes me say you don't want to start Freddie is the, the third Marner goal where like Mitch Marner's bombing one by you from like 30 feet out. Mitch Marner is? That's, I think they said it on the U.S. broadcast where they're like, yeah, he doesn't score from

there very often. It's like, yeah, no shit. Yep. And nobody's supposed to score from there. Oh, yeah, especially like unscreened or whatever. Yeah. You can't, I mean, almost any clean goal these days is not a great one. But that, yeah, that was up there.

A hell of a shot. Oh, yeah, perfectly placed in all that. But it was, you know, a hell of a shot from a good player who was really feeling it. But you're right. That is the kind of one where you go. We need that one. Stop. What are your thoughts on Braden McNabb coming into the?

the coming back into the game and starting. It was cool. Yeah. That's wrestling, right. I know, I know it's, yeah, it's the kind of thing that, like, there's a certain type of hockey fan that kind of rolls their eyes at it because it's like, we get so excited over it. And I, I have to say, and I'm somewhat amazed at this, I did not encounter anywhere in

my travels, anyone doing like an NBA thing with this. Like, you know, that the... I did, but there's one guy on social. media who just hates Anthony Davis. And, uh, because Anthony Davis like missed most of the season with like a fingernail injury. And, um, this guy has a thing where he just screams into his microphone going, this guy got hit in the face with a puck and Anthony fucking Davis. That's the entire season with a, you know, like that's his whole bit. But that was the only guy that I saw doing it.

So. I mean, it's a great. It is a great bit. screaming into a microphone is an A plus bit. I'm surprised more people aren't doing it. But yeah, it's cool. I mean, that was brutal looking. Oh, great, yeah.

I mean, brutal. I make it sound like, you know, it looked worse than it. It was brutal looking, and I'm sure it felt a hundred times worse than it looked. Yeah, full credit to him, man. I like that crap when hockey players just go full hockey player and drag them. Especially something like this where it's not like, you know, Patrice Bergeron's punctured lung where you're like, I don't think

Yeah, they put them in a cage And that was the end Like this is Yeah. Yeah. Now again, it makes you kind of go like, Oh, shouldn't they just like wear a cage all the time? But that's, you know, there are still guys who are mad

that they got to wear the shield, you know? You can't, you can't, you can't expect these guys to hop in a cage. But yeah, other than that, I feel like there's not like a ton to talk about I guess the good thing is that Carolina is now getting goals from their big players. At Ajo, I guess, is the only one without a goal,

but like Svechnikov has scored in this series. But Ajo is still not doing anything. Like, he's, I know Anderson's the goat right now in the bad way, but he is not doing much of anything three games in. Yeah, I mean, look, he's got three assists. He is not beating the you can't win a cup when this guy's your best off. Absolutely. Allegations.

He has three assists and I think they're all primary. I don't have that in front of me. But, yeah, like, again, one goal more. And we're not having any kind of conversations about, like, where is this guy? You know what I mean? like because the series is now two to one in the other direction. And again, going out of a game three, someone has to be down two to one. That's just how it works.

But you don't want to be the team that's down two one and you still have one more game in Vegas. Yeah. Is this kind of has like whoever wins tonight wins the series vibes? Yeah, I might not go that far if Carolina wins just because again, like. Yeah. Now it's a best of three. Certainly Vegas, though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's hard to see anybody coming back from down. I know it's, it's been such a great series that, like, stuff that happened in previous games feels like a million years ago. But what did you think of the Tortoralla Challenge in game? Well, it shouldn't have done that. See, I disagree. I thought that was, like, it didn't work. But, like, you're not just saying that from a it didn't work perspective.

No, as soon as he challenged it, I was like, they're not going to, that's not going to work, man. Okay. I really don't even see the argument. I thought it was fine as a child, because I get that we've been told that they don't want to change calls on the ice. So you can't, what maybe would have felt like a coin flip previously is now not that. a coin flip might be a zero percent chance and something that previously would have felt like a 90% chance is a coin flip I wouldn't go that far but

I well I don't know because that one in game two I thought was pretty close to a 90% chance it's it's hard to say because it's very rare that you get the goal waved off and then you challenge to make the goal count it's usually the other way Well, God, I'm trying to... But, I mean, that was not... I was put it this way. I don't think that's goalie interference. And I thought that it was pretty close to heaven enough to overturn it.

And the thing is, like, if you're the coach, if you challenge and you're wrong, or sorry, if you challenge and you're right, that's a full goal in your column. If you challenge and you're wrong, whatever you think Carolina's power plays. Yeah, let's a call. It should have been terrible. 20%. So it's 20% of a goal if you're wrong. So you put those two numbers on the scale,

and you don't have to be very sure, or forget about sure, you don't have to be very confident for it to still be the right challenge. I just think all the people who are like, oh, Tartorella just lost the Stanley Cup final game with a stupid challenge. I didn't see that.

I thought it was, even if, like, even if Carolina doesn't score there, I just thought it was a challenge that's not getting overturned because of an intent to blow. And I know they said that's actually not what we reviewed or whatever. And it's like, okay, man, but that. Well, but it wasn't. That's the thing. There's nothing.

And that, that's part of what it felt like. In fact, I thought I had somebody, maybe it was a couple people say this to me at the time, where it almost felt like it was an intent to blow situation, but the ref was like, oh, man, I really screwed. I'm just going to call it goalie interference instead. Right. So here's what I, what. And then the coach challenges and you're like, here's what I think happened on that play.

And this is, I got to give credit to T.J. Oshy on SportsCenter after that game saying, if you had like, because they show the POV ref cam. And it's easy for me to see how he goes, Anderson had it covered up. And,

and was it Barbachev pitchforked it out? It was Barbishev, right? Um, and, and like he had it covered and, and you see the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, barbachev take the extra, like, stab at it. And Oshy goes, I bet if you had the POV video for Barbashev, like you did for the ref. You see that the puck was loose in between Anderson's arms. But the ref has no way to see that. And so that's why it's goalie interference. Like, he's, right.

And, and, but. But then that's why you have replay. I didn't see anything like ultra definitive in the replay that I'm like, okay. It was totally looted. Like that's where that. I guess my point is that Tortorella doesn't need to feel like he has something definitive to challenge that. I think if he feels like he's 50-50, it's easily the right. Yeah, like analytics, whatever you want to say, like how they, whatever.

the NFL, they go like, okay, there's a 30% chance this costs us five yards, but a 50% chance it gains us 20. So you take the ladder every time, whatever it is. I get that argument for sure. But again, I just, I didn't see anything in the replays where I was like, oh yeah, he should challenge this. That's, you know, we can have differences of opinion on it, I guess. But I, to me, I just like, I didn't see that ever being a play that got overturned. I just, I would, I would love more than anything to be able to look at a Stanley Cup final and go a bad challenge, cost a team, a game, cost a team to Sierra. Like, I just, I can't get myself to that.

Well, and the other thing about it, to your point earlier, about like, oh, you're confident and your penalty kill. And so that's why you think it's even more of a like no brain or call or whatever. you can be confident in the penalty kill all you want. Carter Hart is ultimately your goalie and he's having a bad series. And we're probably one bad game away from having the same goalie conversation we just did. We should be having that conversation now. I just think Aiden Hill has burned the bridge so hard in Vegas.

Like he was awful this year that they don't have a second option like Carolina does. But that is, I mean, I don't know that you're wrong, but isn't that a wild thing to say about a guy who won a cup three years ago? This is the ultimate, like, oh, three years ago, why don't you bring up fucking Cleopatra to me? Yeah. The fall of Roe. This is why you never, this is why you should never sign a goal either more than the three-year contract. Like, to go from a cup winner to unplayable. Yeah.

Yeah, it's wild It's, uh, it's, it's just one of those things for me where I'm, where I'm sitting there going like, yeah, uh, this is, this is just not a conversation that Vegas is ever going to have. Like, you want to talk about dance who you came to the dance with like Carter Hart is the only goalie they're playing in this playoffs come hell or high water. Wow. I, I get you, but like, they sign this guy during the season. He's been there for less than a year, and now, and you wouldn't even consider going... I don't think they would. I would personally, but I don't think they would.

Yeah, all right. Even if he's like, he gives up five goals on 25 shots tonight, and it's... Yeah, I mean, yeah, I hear you. I got to look this up really quickly, but when was the last time Eden Hill started a game? You know what? It has to have been quite a while. and look, probably about as long as

well, you can say the same thing about Bussy, but again, like, Aiden Hill was 870 in the regular season. Now, again, look up whether that's

better than what Carter Hart's doing in the series. The answer is yes. But 870 in the regular season is, sorry, man, you played your way out of our,

having any confidence in you. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, let's see here. His last game was April 9th. So literally two months ago at this point. And before that, he hadn't played in like a week and a half.

So I don't know. I just think they're like, nope. Unfortunately for us, Carter Hart's our guy. This friggin league, hellabuck, Shosturk, and Sorokin, I'll miss the playoffs. Fasseleski, Swabin, Ottinger, all out the first round. We got two teams, no goalies. What a sport. It's the best, man.

And by the way, I say that as a compliment. Having no goalies in the Stanley Cup final is awesome. I say we do this every year. Yeah, every game is pretty high scoring and full of drama because But goalie has two good periods in a row. He's suspended for the rest of the series. Yeah, that's right. This is the fun stuff.

Well, it's going to be a should be a good one tonight. And I'll tell you, I'm watching the whole thing. Yeah. That's not. Oh, it's, I'll tell you. five minutes left in the third period, you're like, it's only seven nothing. Something could change here. Yeah.

I made that mistake. I'll tell you off air what happened to me on Saturday. It was, yeah, I'm not making any more rookie mistakes. Yeah. What's not to accept, to be excited about, except, again, if you're a fan of either team and you're like, oh, no, we have to start our goalie. That sucks for us. Sure. Oh, yeah.

But again. Yeah, kudos to these two fan bases that are going through agony right now for everyone else. Oh, yeah, absolute gritted teeth for sure. But again, just watch Bussie come in and stop, you know, 17 of every 18 shots he faces for the next few games. The series is over. You know, so that's weirdly a possibility as well. I guess that's all you're ever looking for in a hockey game. So, like you said, hats off to everyone involved.

This has been a great series. Maybe, maybe, you know, three games in, one of the best ever. So it's all you're looking for. I really think it's got a shot getting there. All right, why don't we? If we get four more really good games, which is maybe asking a lot. Why don't we take a break? We'll be right back to talk about so other stuff.

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Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See MintMobile for details. All right, we're back and we got a bit of coaching news here, it seems. It was reported very widely yesterday. Sources were saying all over the place, but it hasn't been officially announced yet that Peter Lavellette is the next head coach of the Los Angeles Kings.

Your thoughts. The headline that Eric Stevens went with on the athletic today says the king's hiring coach Peter Lavillette is sensible but not particularly inspiring. I think that's about right. Like, yeah. Pete Lavillette is a good coach.

Mm-hmm. He tends to have a shelf life. But he's a good... And, like, I get that there's... There's frustration sometimes where it's like, why are we recycling the same guy? But there is... There are times where a steady hand on the wheel is what you want.

Somebody who has a ton of experience, has been through the ups and downs, has been doing this for most of their life. Like, that's not... The fresh set of eyes isn't always the right call. Now, I think you could argue with the Kings that, especially with Kopitar gone, that it's time to kind of take a step back and focus on the future,

but that's not where they're at. They've still got through Joddy. They've just went out and got Panarin. They've still got Panarin. So, yeah, I mean, it's, in a way, I mean, I think the King's got a really nice, upgrade to their coaching because I did not have a lot of faith in Jim Hiller and DJ Smith is fine.

Didn't feel like he was ever going to get this job. He apparently was in the process, but yeah, it didn't. It reportedly came down to Lavillette and Jay Woodcroft, which is an interesting mix. I mean, you kind of know what you're going to get with Peter Lavalya. Like, you're going to be better for probably three to four years. years. And then... Let's ask the Rangers about that, though, you know?

Yeah. For a Ken Hitchcock hire, I guess I shouldn't be shocked. And the other thing we should say is Lavella was apparently part of the Leafs and Oilers process. Yeah, sure. I mean, that just makes sense and a talk to everybody kind of a... I mean, if I had to pick from those three teams, I would have thought Edmonton would be his landing spot, right? Because that's more about...

We're going to talk about the oilers at a minute. Believe me, brother. That is, that's more of the teeth. Like, you think of Lavillette as a guy you hire when you think you're close to something. And he pushes you over the finish line. And then if everybody hates him in three years, so what? You know, I just realized you said Ken Hitchcock and not Ken Holland. Oh, did I? Yeah, okay. So, yes. Now, that would be that would be higher. Must credit. Yeah.

One of the old guys named Ken H. The one without the hoodie. Bring back the damn hoodie. That's a great hoodie. So yeah, beyond that, I don't know, what were your thoughts? Yeah, just like completely fucking vanilla higher. Like, and not, I like vanilla as a flavor. I don't know that I like this higher necessarily, but it's, it's totally

the hire of an old GM who thinks this team, you know, went into last season going, this team could really be something. And they made the playoffs last year, you know. I don't know that I'm like super excited for whoever I think my number one center next year is to be maybe like you'd say developed by Lavie-Aulet. Quinn and Bifeld still need some developing. So. Yeah.

So I don't know. I just like, I guess I would prefer Woodcroft if I was, if I was a Kings fan. But also like, who cares? It seems not doing anything. They aren't going anywhere. Not real. Like, you know, it's the NHL. So, like, you know, the Buffalo Sabres made the playoffs this year.

Like, that's the new standard in anything could happen. Yep. but if I'm a Kings fan, I feel like I'm maybe a little more realistic about what this team is than management or ownership or whatever you want to say. And so I'm just like, I don't give a shit who the coach is. As long as it's not someone who like completely sucks and is going to set the team back, which I don't think Lavie Lett is, that's fine, I guess. That would be kind of my attitude.

It's just like, okay, sure, yep, awesome, great. Who cares? Sounds about right. So let's get to the fireworks factory. Let's talk about Edmonton. Oh, my God. So I'm at a movie yesterday and like four people text me. Some version of LMAO did you see this?

And I had not seen it until I got out of the movie, of course. But, yeah, widely or reporting. and then widely accepted as fact that Mike Babcock is deep into the process with the Edmonton Oilers to be their next head coach. So it seems like what everybody was reporting is that the Oilers have checked in with the league

of like, hey, can't, well, the PA and the league because somebody was saying that this is at this point a league call. Really? And not a PA call. Now, that doesn't mean the PA couldn't say. something about it, but that it, like, the yes or no decision rests with

the league and all. Why would that be the case? Well, I mean, the PA doesn't have power to suspend a coach, right? I mean, they I guess I didn't know he was suspended. I didn't see this yesterday. Well, yeah, it's not even suspended. It's, um, yeah, the hire has not been formalized with the NHL, which would have to sign off. Huh.

I guess I didn't see that yesterday. I'm a little surprised by that. Anyways, it is probably the case that whoever needs to do the actual sign-off, like if the players really, and I'm saying like the Players Association here, not necessarily the Oilers players, I think this could still not happen.

Well, the players. reporting I saw was that they asked like the the Oilers leadership group and I don't know what that constitutes necessarily but they asked the Oilers leadership group and they were all like yeah that's fine they also are you know are investing in

the biggest magnets you've ever seen to wipe their phones before Mike Babcock can get his fucking grubby little mitts on them I don't say this lightly I literally cannot believe can't believe it that the oil

absolutely right And I say this even as somebody who if you told me that Mike Babcock would coach in the NHL again I could see it somewhere I mean it would have been a Columbus situation right a smaller market not a huge microscope

you know a team that's trying to adjust the culture and learn how to do things the right way and blah blah blah to put him in Edmonton as the final question mark coach of the Connor McDavid era certainly feels like that's what's happening here is insanity to me like there's not that is so wild to like every to put him in Canada period where sure everything's a big deal and everything's going to be like i mean it's it's but to do it on like there's no team in canada

under more pressure right now there might not be a team in the league under more pressure might not be a team in sports under more pressure right now and yeah this is this is your guy a guy who fair or not the perception is was really good for a long time with really really good teams, that being the Red Wings and Team Canada, failed in Toronto and then got run out of the league before he could coach a game in Columbus. And now here we are, you are down to your last chip to put in the middle of the table on the McDavid era. This is the hand you want to bet on. It's crazy to me.

This is, to me, the act of a team that was like, we need a new general manager. Let's call Stan Bowman in whatever the year 2023. Stan Bowman made a hundred times more sense to me. For reasons I said at the time, and I've said since, that to be the guy who's like, I took a team that was almost there and pushed him over the finish line in Chicago, that's exactly what, like, I get it. I'm not saying Stan Bowman's done a good job, obviously. I'm not saying he was the good hire, but my brain can click through.

You can wrap your head around it. Yeah, for sure. And get to an end point on that. Whereas with this, I just, I hit a guru meditation every time. Like, I can't, I cannot get to the end of this. Okay. Let me, let me amend that then. This is the kind of move that makes sense for a GM who thought giving Trent Frederick

eight years was a good idea. Mm-hmm. you know it's the the only scenario that that that i could see is if we find out for some godforsaken reason that they went to connor mac david and leon dry saddle and said who do you guys want as coach and they either named mike babcock like they fallen to year the bribed like to a T, like I want someone who's won a cup. I want someone who's won. Oh my God.

Do you think, do you think Connor McDavid just like was like, I don't know, maybe get somebody with some cups in a gold medal thinking he meant John Cooper and Stam Bowman just misunderstood him and was like, you got it, buddy, say no more. I know exactly who you're referring to. Yeah, I don't think that's what happened. Guy who won a guy who's, who's won a few Stanley cups, a couple gold medals, did the won the Cups with Steve Eiserman? I know what you're saying.

We got it. We'll get it for you, buddy. Click. Yeah, I think... Connor McDavid wakes up to his phone the next morning and says, oh, no. I think this is an idea that you bring to the team, basically, and go, what do you think? And my thinking is McDavid's just kind of like, I don't get, like, senior-right-ish McDavid. Like, I don't give a fuck.

I'm leaving. Hire whoever you want. What do I care? That's it. When they say like, I don't know. Man, I guess my advice would be to the Oilers, if you do this, I need to see Carter McDavid at the press conference. Yeah, you're flying out.

Like sitting next to Mike Babcock being like, this is why this is my guy. And then it'll, at that point, at least the Plinkgo Chip will be able to get to the bottom and, you know, I'll have something. Because right now, I don't, I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, cannot believe it. Okay. Even leaving aside the whole give me your phone thing from Columbus, right?

Mm-hmm. And even leaving aside the fact that it seems like he is maybe not the best guy to be like a leader of men, let's say. I'm not saying anything about like his exes and O's knowledge

or anything like that, although I do think that's like a thing that you can have and then not have anymore. Like the league passes you buy on that front. Oh, sure. Yeah, when you're talking about almost 20 years since this guy's last cup, that's. Well, so that's what I was going to say.

This guy has not coached an NHL game since before the pandemic. Think about how long Sheldon Keith was losing first round series in Toronto. Right? He was the guy they hired after they fired Mike Babcock. That's how fucking long ago it was. Sheldon Keith did that forever in Toronto, and he's now three years in in New Jersey. That's what I'm saying. That was so fucking long ago.

And he was the Mike Babcock replacement. And you're the Edmonton Oilers. You are cup or bust with Connor McDavid. If we don't make this coaching hire right and make it quickly, which it hasn't been quick, we're fucked. We're losing Connor McDavid. And they go... And the guy who every player hates, it seems like, because remember, this is the other thing to remember is the reason the Babcock stuff even came out was because the players in Columbus went to the spit and chicklets guys and was like, this guy's a fucking asshole and we don't want to play for him. It's not like they went to, you know, Yarmou Kekalainen, who was the GM there at the time, and was, and was, and,

were like, look, this guy's making us go, like, going through our phone. They didn't, they didn't, like, for whatever reason, they didn't do that. And so, and I would imagine that the reason has something. Right away, the players. Well, that's what I'm saying. Unjustified, but to a degree that we, like, look, man, there have been coaches who have done worse things. Sure.

Yeah, of course. Asking to see photos on someone's phone. But the level to which the, and, and the spit and shook. guys too who are very whatever else you want to say about them are very plugged into the players in the league yes of course i mean they just

pulled the shiv on this guy and went to town in a way that i have never seen on a coach or a jail or like any anybody in this league like get that like it be that

clear and now yeah And so on top of all that, this is a guy who hasn't coached in the league in like seven years, six years? And his results in Toronto were not good. Correct. Yeah. Somebody had, they were the worst five on five team for like his stay there.

So like he hasn't been a good coach. Like a marquee hire. Look, when the Leafs hired him, they gave him the biggest contract ever and all that stuff. there were reasonable objections at the time. You were one of the people making them. I remember you were saying like this guy, you know, without Nick Lidstrom or Sidney Crosby, what has he ever won? Okay.

But it, he was a marquee hired then. Oh, absolutely, yeah. Remember Buffalo thought they had him and all that other stuff. I don't remember that. Yeah, well, Buffalo, he was on the way, was it, was it that Babcock was on the way to Buffalo or Ghibu? was on the way to Toronto, like on a plane for the press conference. And then Babcock changed his mind.

A real Shohei Otani to Toronto situation. A little bit, yeah. Yeah. That was, when did the Leaves hire him? 2015? 15, sounds about right? Yeah, he was the tankier to get to Austin Matthew. So, okay, maybe you don't hold that against him coaching record-wise.

But that was a decade ago that this guy won anything. And again, it's not like nobody's sitting here going and you know who's a great coach in this league is Sheldon Keefe. And yet he came in and immediately got better results than Babcock did. Now you can say like, oh, yeah, sure, he came in when all those guys were starting to hit their primes and they weren't developing anymore, blah, blah, blah. I guess that's true. But also, like, again, I just, I haven't. seen this guy have success with anybody who's not a hall of like a first ballot no question about it hall of fame i've just never seen him have that level of success with

anybody and you know 11 years is such a is so long in this NHL yeah 11 years ago that 2015-16 season that the goals per game in this league was 2.51 that was the low point of the cap era. And whereas this pat, well, these past five years have been essentially the high point if we take out the one-quartered year at the beginning. Like the league is, now, it's like an extra half goal a little bit more than that a game. So I don't want to make it sound like we went from the dead puck era to the mid-70s. But the game has changed a lot since 2015.

I think this is irrefutable. Yeah. Even if you want to make the argument. that Mike Babcock was the best coach in the league in 2015, which in hindsight, I don't think was the case. But, okay, he was the best coach in the league 11 years ago. That would have been like the Leafs in 2015 hiring a guy who hadn't won anything since before the salary cap.

Like, that's the same amount of time we're talking. This is half the cap era that he's been, he hasn't he I'm blown away I'm blown away by this yeah and to me it just like it becomes a situation where it's like

you you have to understand what's at stake with the McDavid thing like you are about to be if you're San Bowman you are about to be the GM that blew the height of the McDavid era now look they went to

two straight Stanley Cup finals. And I saw a lot of people yesterday saying they were actually within one goal of winning the Stanley Cup. Well, they didn't fucking score it, first of all. You know, well, wasn't it game seven was one nothing? Game seven was two one, I think. Two one, that's right. They scored once and then.

That's right. And it's like, yeah, okay, I guess you're right that it was, they were within a goal of it. But remember when the senators were a goal away from being in the Stanley Cup final that one time? What happened after that? Like, not a whole lot. There are, there are a lot of great teams that come around and their crest of, like, the absolute tippy top of the wave is just barely not good enough. And if you want to argue that the Oilers were always just barely not good enough, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to agree with you because you couldn't trust their goalie for, for large stretches.

You certainly couldn't trust, like, half their defense for large stretches of the, entire McDavid run. And yet, here's $9 million. Here's $8 million. Here's five years. Here's eight years. Like, bad contract, bad contract, bad contract, bad contract. I just think if you bring in Babcock, you're adding to the bad contract pile.

And God, who will? Fuck. I'm trying to remember now. Ryan Nugent Hopkins came into the league in 2012, I want to say. Yep. He was the 2011. 11-12. Yeah, 2012 was Yakopov.

Okay. So I'm going to just look up 11-12 who their coach was. And tell me how long ago you feel like this was. Okay. Tom Rennie. Okay. Ralph Ruger. Dallas Aiken's Todd Nelson, Todd McClellan, Ken Hitchcock, Dave Tipp.

Jay Woodcroft, Chris Knoblock, and now Mike Babcock. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. This will be Ryan Nugent Hopkins' 10th coach in 14 years. The crazy thing is like Ken Hitchcock feels forever ago as the Edmonton Oilers coach. That was so long ago and that was only half the list that you were working. we're not that far to get to Pat Quinn. Remember that year? Yeah, Rennie was the coach before Pat Quinn.

Wow. So I guess... Or after Pat Quinn. I guess we can wrap this on... Here's the good news for the others. Number one, this might not fly with either the league or the players. And number two, I'm not... Like, you can usually count on...

No matter how dumb an NHL team is being, a lot of times the fan base will rise up. and be like, well, actually, here's why it's smart. And I'm not seeing any of that in Edmonton. So I'm wondering if we are maybe getting a bit of a Pyradorian in Vancouver situation where they're going to end up being like, no, we never. What, Mike Bet? No, we weren't going to do that.

And, like, I still don't think he ends up as coach. You're giving them an awful lot of credit. Somebody reported, like, among the inside. I mean, it wasn't one of the big names, and I don't remember who it was. I'm sorry for that. but they said like, assuming they get the thumbs up from the league, Mike Babcock is the next coach of the Oilers.

Like they made it sound, like it wasn't like, hey, you know what, we're down to the final five candidates. One of them's Babcock, though. We should probably check with the league before we, you know, fly them out here and all that just in case. And then it leaks out and you're like, okay. I don't, I still think it's under 50% that they hire them.

And again, that's just my brain cannot, even I'm putting it in oiler mode. I don't think a lot of the decision making from this organization, but it can't, right? Can you? So you can't if you are like putting yourself in the headspace of like a well-run team. And I just don't think the oilers are that. I've been a leaf fan my whole life. I don't live in that headspace. I can I can comprehend of horrors you can't imagine.

Yeah, I under, look. But not this one. This, this only makes sense in the way that like the 200 hockey men take on it makes sense. But to your point earlier, it does, I don't think I've seen anyone in Edmonton going like, now hold on a second. Here's, you know, you got to keep in mind his resume. There's definitely a David Staples column coming about how... Oh, your problem. What Connor McDavid actually needs is to be physically abused on the bench.

Let's see what David Staples has to say about this. Let's see if he's got any takes off yet. Connor McDavid has been asked to submit a list of his laziest teammates. Well, so the other funny thing with that is it was kind of floated that maybe like Darnell Nurse would be unhappily asked to waive his, I can't remember if he has no traitor, no move, but to like give the Oilers a little flexibility and be willing to go somewhere else.

And it's like, okay, again, that's a decision that should have been made like two years ago, but sure, yep, that's fine. I can't, it seems as though old Dave Staples hasn't weighed in on this quite yet. He's, let him cook, man. Believe me, I am. But yeah, I just, if this was any other team, I would say I can't believe it.

The Stan Bowman run Edmonton Oilers, yeah, that checks a box or two for me that this would be an idea they had for sure. That's fair. I don't think we put it on the outline, but just real quick. Yep. Joe Pavelski Hmm Yeah Seems to be emerging as

A favorite Sure Why not? In Toronto? Like a finalist What do you thoughts there? Well, I think The way I

You know, I heard it kind of frame This must have been on 32 thoughts That I heard them talking about it this way Of like, well it worked with Martin Saint-Louis Yeah I guess that's true Yep. When they hired him, a lot of the talk was, well, he's been coaching like use hockey.

That's his only coaching experience. Correct. And I guess what I would say is maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think the next ultra fertile, like, ground for coaching hires in the NHL. is U-14 hockey. I just don't feel like that's the case. To be fair, remember, they tried it with college hockey coaches. We're going to get Dave Haxel. We're going to get David Quinn.

Those have, by and large, not worked, right? Now, I would also argue that those coaches are being brought into teams that were clearly entering rebuilds and they were never going to work. But to me, it's like maybe just... Povelsky's a hockey genius. I don't know. Other than I've watched him play for 15 years in the league or however long he was in the league, right? I just, I think if you're

pointing at, here's one, the one coach ever who was hired out of bantoms or whatever you want to say, like coaching his kids. It worked, so like, let's try it in Toronto where maybe we're getting to the end of the Austin Matthews era as well. And this is our last great kick at the can or whatever you want to say.

That can't be your justification. It worked this one time. It worked the one time anybody else tried it. You'd certainly like to see a lot more, a lot more behind it than that. And look, like, you're seeing a ton of people going, Velsky's great, everybody loves them, everybody goes to that. I don't know, man.

It's still, it's a tough ask. And you know who can't love this very much? Every other hockey coach, all those guys who are out there grinding for 25 years and the minors and running penalty kills and all that stuff. Oh, I should have been coaching 12-year-olds this whole time. Yeah, and you're now just like, you know what? anyone who's like a cool dude can just step right in

and do this job. This is like when somebody who's like not an actor wins the Academy Award for their first movie. Yeah. Because Martin Saint-Louis has been amazing. Martin-Saint-Louis is the precious of NHL coaches. But

I don't I don't see it for put it this way. I need some convincing. And I'm I don't hate the idea that the Leafs are clearly thinking outside the box a little bit. I don't hate that. I'm going to need some more convincing on Pavelsky.

Yeah, I agree. And like, you're not exactly hearing the most inspiring names attached to the Leafs search otherwise. Yeah. But at least we know those guys can coach in the NHL to one. extent or another. Again, like if they're, it's funny, because Gavin McKenna was asked about, like, what would you think about playing it for the Leafs at the scouting combine or whatever last week? And he was like, yeah, I think they can be, look, they have a bunch of great players and I

think they can be right back in contention for a playoff spot next season, not the loftiest of goals. But I think that's probably true, that that's within the range of outcomes for the Leafs next year. I might even say it's more likely than not that they're a playoff team next season. I'll obviously have to see what they do this summer. But like, I could be talked into they have a 60% chance to make the playoffs and I'd go, that sounds great to me.

And I agree. You know, that could really happen. With that having been said, they are not, like, that's not the position I would want for a Joe Pavelski style hire. If this is the Canucks, and it's like this guy's never even coached a professional hockey team before, but we're going to suck for three years regardless of who we hire. So we might as well just fuck around and maybe we have like the greatest coach of all time. The Leafs aren't in that position for me.

I would tend to agree. Yeah. So I mentioned earlier about Darnell Nurse may or may not be willing to waive. his no movement clause. What about Dylan Larkin? He will. He'll wave it. Well, it's undeniable that he will wave it.

He is willing to wave to three teams. Three teams, that's correct. Helene St. James, long time Detroit Red Wings reporter, plugged in as you can get in Detroit under Steve Eisenman. There's not a lot of info that gets out of that front office.

I would assume this came from maybe outside that front office. But the three teams that Dylan Larkin, the captain of the team, is willing to go to, are Florida, Vegas, and Minnesota. But let's start with this, Sean. Were you surprised that he demanded a trade? Oh, yeah. Yeah, like everyone else, that came out of nowhere. And I understand why somebody might want out of Detroit, given how things have gone there.

but yes, of course I was surprised. Local guy, captain of the team, et cetera, et cetera. This is pretty stunning. I don't agree that it is stunning for a very simple reason. He was very vocal about we didn't get any help two years ago. And then he got kind of chastised obliquely via the military. media by the people who run the team. Right?

I don't even think it was that. I think it was pretty direct. Okay. Steve Eisenman, because I had forgotten about this until I revisited it after this, this trade request, because I remembered the comment after last year's deadline, we mean 2025, where they didn't do anything. Yeah. And Larkin says, like, well, you know, it was at the end of the season, he says, well, the deadline

was tough because we were, we were really hoping to get like a boost, I think was his. Yeah. you know, some momentum out of the deadline and nothing happened. And Steve Eiserman at his postseason press conference, so this is like a day or two later, without even being asked about it, says, you know, we didn't do anything at the deadline. I expect our star players to be the boost.

That's what they're paid to do. I mean, I don't think there's any lines to read between there. He's telling Dylan Larkin, let me do my job. how about you do yours and don't disappear down the stretch every year with your big, fat, new contract that we apparently butt a heads over. And that's part of the problem is that it was a difficult negotiation. That was a pretty obvious dunk on Dylan Larkin. And I mean, here we are.

I think, so that lays the groundwork for this trade request in my mind. And then what gets it over the finish line is, God, I'm going to try to find the tweet really quickly. But there is an old tweet where, you know, this year you can't say Detroit didn't go out and get help. Now, the help they got, you can say it sucked and was never going to work. And there is an old tweet that is, it's stupid when girls say they can't find a guy. they ignore me. It's like saying you're hungry when there's a hot dog on the ground outside. Okay.

Yeah. That's a classic. You know what I mean? Like, oh, you didn't like that, that you said you were hungry and you didn't like that, that dog shit on a plate I served up to you? That's weird. I thought you were hungry. Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? Like, he more so maybe even than me, Dylan Larkin has said, I don't believe in the eyes are playing. This is never going to work. I need to go somewhere where I'm going to win. Cool. Good for you. I'm pro player. I'm very in favor of guys having more control and using leverage where they can. You have five years left on your contract, man. You do not have leverage to be pulling this act of a asking for a trade and then be using your no trade clause to give a list of three teams, two of a,

of which are the teams that win all the time. Yep. Vegas and Florida. And the third of which is Minnesota. None of those teams have got great assets to put together a package for Dylan Larkin. In all seriousness, if I'm Steve Eiserman, I would treat this three-team list exactly the same as I would treat it if he gave me a list of no team. teams. I would say, oh, okay, so you've changed your mind. Cool. I will see you a training camp. This is, like, and maybe it's the first step. Maybe this is just like, you know, you always start the

negotiations with the list will expand. If I'm Steve Eisenman, I'm not, I'm telling Dylan Largan, I'm not even picking up the phone to even talk to those three teams if this is your list. If you can only think of three teams you want to play for more than Detroit, five years to go. We'll see you, see at camp, do some sit-ups, report in shape. We'll decide in September if you're still the captain. But until you're willing to give me 10 or 12 or 15 teams, forget it. I'm not interested. Right.

And I think the captaincy thing is kind of the interesting aspect of it. Because I saw a lot of Red Wings fans really mad at him, even before the list of teams came out that were like, he should be going down with the ship, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, he's not the fucking Navy, man. Like, this isn't the North Atlantic in like 1942. It's a little bit different When like It's way more important

That's rocky man I can't wait to see Greyhound Three which is going to be about Dylan Larkin getting trade anyway Grayhound by the way good movie Underseen Tom Hanks Pandemic release But any Neither here nor there

I think I think for me it's just like He's under no obligation to want to play for these teams in much the same way, any other player that has the ability to, let's put it this way. He's got, we're five years left on his deal. He is under an obligation to play for the Red Wings. No, to what, I should say, to want to play for them.

Right. And that's, that's what's interesting to me about the three teams that he would say he would go to is those are the ones that in my, you know, maybe it's not true, but they have some of the more obvious, this is a U.S. Olympian guy, right? And people are saying, like, look, he got a taste of winning gold, and now he's sitting there going, well, I'm not getting anywhere close to that in the next five years. I'm not getting anywhere close to that if I'm the best player on the team. I have to be the fourth or fifth or six best player on the team to have any chance of winning.

Correct. Cool, man. That's excellent self-awareness by you. And, like, man, this ticks me off more than I thought it would. It really does. Because, and, like, there is a part of me that's, like, the NHL kind of needs Steve Iserman to stand up on this one. Because, look, you and I have talked for years about players choosing their destinations

and super teams and be careful what you wish for. And it always is very cool when Connor McDavid wants to leave Edmonton, because maybe he'll go to your team, but then when it happens to, to your team, it sucks. And on down the list. And, you know, Myrtle had a piece a couple days ago. Again, like, we're now entering this kind of new era. And he mentioned the name that you're hearing the most, for obvious reasons, is Mitch

Marner. And Matthew Kachuk is another one. And Kachuk won two cups, and Marner's probably about to win one. Mitch Marner, and I'm furious at Dylan Larkin for making me take the pro-Mitch Marner stance, but Mitch Marner finished his contract in Toronto. Mitch Marner played every game that he had any obligation to play for Toronto, played it at the best of his ability. He never, yes, he had one eye on the door.

That sucked. But I can tell you, like, Mitch Marner never loathed. He never sulked. He fulfilled his contract, and then he left as a free agent via sign and trade, which is completely different than having five years left on a contract and saying, I quit. Yes, I agree. And Matthew Kuchuk had one year left and he of team control. And he said, he wasn't signed though, right?

Like that, again, that's like the crucial part. He was not signed. And he had the ability to go one year and walk to UFA. and he said, like, it's sort of remembered as he demanded a trade. He didn't demand a trade. What Matthew Kuchuk did is he went to the Flames and said, I will not sign anything here beyond the one year. Yep.

So I will stay for one more year, but then I'm gone as a UFA. Or you can trade me now to a team that I'm willing to sign with. I will give you a list and you'll get some assets. And obviously the Flames chose that option as anyone would. but you've got five years left on your deal, man. You don't have the leverage here to force anything. And that doesn't mean you can't say I would rather be somewhere else. But to then turn around and hand off a list of three teams,

two of which are the most cliched, I just want to go and ride someone else's tailcoats to a championship teams, and none of whom have the assets to really make a trade for you? Like, I would tell this guy to go kick rocks if I was Steve Eisenman. I wouldn't entertain it at all. I got to say, man, like the only thing that I'm like, if I'm any of those teams, I'm excited to give up assets to Dylan Larkin, it's not like, oh, like, you know, let's put it this way.

It's not like the Quinn Hughes package where it's like the equivalent of like three recent first round picks and like a future first round pick or anything like that, right? It's more like he's, how old is Dylan Larkin now? He's 30. 30 or will be very soon. And he's signed for five years. I think the thing that makes him valuable on that front is the fact that his AAB is so low. Right?

It's not that I'm... Yeah, it is kind of amazing that we went from, can the Red Wings actually? actually win with Dylan Larkin is on their top line to him being an elite superstar just based on a trade request. Like it does feel like everywhere we kind of just huge star demands trade. And it's like, weren't we having this debate just a couple months ago? You know what it is? You know what it is honestly?

Like this is one of those things where it's like if you could, if you could make this bet on fucking Kalshi or whatever, you could you could really clean up. which is like will the next NHL trade featuring a guy whose career high is 74 points

be called a blockbuster you know like this league has a real problem with like you're not going to believe who got traded that's right it's a guy who plays

second line minutes for the team that finished sixth in the league last year and you're like okay great and they're like it's a blockbuster and you're like I don't agree

And what I like is, again, this is just history has vindicated me. A lot of people are like, I don't know if you can win with Dylan Larkin as your best player. This was an illegal stance to have two years ago. It sure was. You just couldn't say it without getting yelled at. And I don't know, man, I'm sitting here going maybe this was always the case. And if I'm one of these teams, it's funny because before this list came out, I was like, you know who the team that I think could use him the most is? Is Montreal.

Now, obviously, they don't have all the Americans and they're not even in America. So that's a problem for that front. But like, you put him in behind Nick Suzuki. I think you're feeling pretty good about the next five years. Right? Mm-hmm. but he wants to go to Florida who does not need a second line center, Vegas, who does not need a second line center,

and Minnesota, who he might be their first center if, you know, given what we know about their overall quality, right? And so he's putting himself in a position where he's like maybe the number two center, but more realistically the number three center. or he's back at the same fucking problem that he had in Minnesota, that he had in Detroit. That's why these three teams are weird to me. It's not even the, oh, what, you know, they don't have the assets to get them. I guess that's true.

But that hasn't stopped anybody before from getting traded there, right? Like Noah Hanifan got traded there. Jack Eichael got traded there. And these were the, I don't think you would have said at the time, they have the assets to give up. Because, you know, you just, you go, okay, here's our, like, number three center. Here's a first round pick in 2038. Whatever.

Fucking, who cares? But to me, it's like, do these teams need Dylan Larkin? I mean, I guess it's always good to just, like, have a good player on hand. And, like, when a Barkov gets injured and misses the whole season, Larkin's able to fill the gap better than whoever you would say Florida's number three center last summer was, right? But I just don't see these teams needing him other than, again, you would like to have an all-star caliber guy who won a gold medal. Is that crazy to say? No, I mean, yes.

Yes, I agree with you. No, it's not crazy. So, I don't know. And the other piece of this that is a problem is this is another case of a guy going from a quote-unquote big hockey market and saying, I want to go to a smaller market. Southern market, but that's okay. We see this all the time in baseball and basketball, not as much in the NFL because of the way. way that things work there. But you see it in baseball and basketball, right?

Certain teams are just magnets for star players. Yep. But in baseball and basketball, it's the big markets that drive all the revenue for the league that are also getting all these players. Like in baseball, everyone, every free agents... I'm dying to go to the Kansas City Royals. It's just not... Every free agent signs, pretends that he's going to sign somewhere else,

and then signs with the Dodgers, the Mets, the Yankees, used to be the Red Sox, not so much anymore. I wonder what happened. They go to one of those three teams. Yeah. And fans everywhere else hated, but at least from the league's perspective,

you could see, like, if you hooked Rob Manfred up to a lie detector, he'd be like, yeah, I would like a Yankees, Dodgers, World Series, every single year, please. This, when you've got guys going from Toronto, going from Detroit now, to, and they just want to go to Vegas and Florida,

that's a problem for the league. And now, because I said this in the newsletter this morning, it's also true that it wouldn't have been that long ago that Detroit would have been the team everyone wanted to go to and Florida would have been the team everyone wanted to bail on. So I don't think, like, things can shift. I don't think we necessarily have to go into panic mode, but I don't think it would be the worst thing

to have one of these teams where they have the lever, Again, like there was nothing Toronto could do with Mitch Marner. He, you know, there was nothing Calgary could do. Yeah, of course. Could do with Matthew Kuchuk and down and, you know, some of the other guys that this applies to. Even Jack Eichel, right? Another one going from a great hockey market in Buffalo, Vegas. That was a little different.

You had the medical situation, but none of those teams had the contractual leverage to go, screw you, man. We've got you under contract for five more years. it was a pain in the ass to get you signed to this contract. We're not going to just let you walk or, you know, just to do you a solid when you're not to be dramatic, quitting on your team that you were supposed to be the leader of. It's not happening, man. Sorry. Can I say this, though? This is my other take on this.

He's doing Steve Eisenman in a favor. If he gives him a bigger list, yeah. No, I think, well, okay. I don't think, because I don't think Eisenman can win, forget about win, can do well on a Dylan Larkin trade where he's essentially, that's the other part of this list. This list almost feels to me like Larkin is like, I want to go to Minnesota, but I know I can't get just one team. So I'm going to pick two other teams. I'm half surprised they didn't throw Tampa in there just to screw with Eisenman a little bit, but maybe they decided at the last minute that wouldn't be wise. but it really feels like a one-team list.

And I don't see how you're going to get. And I don't, like, I put it this way. I've seen what the Minnesota fans out there think is their best offer, because whenever I say the wild can't offer enough to get Dylan Larkin, they go, yeah, what about this? And you're like, yeah, thank you for proving my point. That is indeed not a very good offer. So I think he's, you expand the list to like five or six reasonable

teams, then you're right. This could... Let me amend what I said. It's not necessarily helpful for Eiserman. It is helpful for the Detroit Red Wings organization, if Dylan Larkin goes, because it just makes

plain, this isn't fucking working. We need to pivot. We need to rack up a few more drafts instead of trading them for Justin Falk or whoever. That was the... Was that who the trade was? Yeah.

Like, we need to, we need to pivot here. This isn't working. And, like, Larkin is kind of the standard bearer for the Izer plan in a lot of ways. And was he ever good enough to, you know, be the kind of guy that leads a team into the playoffs? The answer, obviously, is fucking no. And the reason I can say that is it hasn't happened. He's played five career playoff games. As a rookie.

Right? And it was when he was a rookie, and again, they won one of those games. A gentleman's sweep, as they call it, you know. And so to me, I'm sitting here going, oh, finally, we have fucking, we have this guy coming off the books. We don't need to worry about it anymore. And we're getting, yeah, obviously not a great trade package or anything. but at that point I'd almost rather have five years of not having to pay Dylan Larkin, who I think is a good player, but he's certainly not the kind of player that again gets you

into the playoffs and history has vindicated me on that point. And like you just you just use this an excuse to let's let some of the other younger guys on the roster like develop for the next two or three years. Because what, they're going to make the playoffs next year, the year after, with Dylan Larkin. Larkin is the best player on their team, I don't think that's true. So go out. Get a, get another tankier or two in there. Get a top eight.

So that's how you would handle this, hey, is, like, use it as a, I don't want to say an excuse to rebuild, but. I was going to say an excuse. So, yeah. You could say an excuse. Sure. Yeah. Because, like, look, obviously you're going to be excited about, like, Lucas Raymond or

whatever. most Sider's not getting any younger, sure, he's, he's 24. But like, take two, three years of being bad. And all of a sudden, you know, maybe you get a defendant, like Landon DuPont is the guy that looks like he's going to be the first overall pick. I don't know about like two, three years from now who the first overall pick is. But get yourself into the lottery. And maybe you get one of those guys. And maybe he can be the kind of franchise defined and clear that you swore up and down.

fucking Dylan Larkin was for years. Mm-hmm. The last thing I'll say on this is I... So I tweeted about this and I basically tweeted a short version of what I just said, which is I hope Eiserman tells him to

go screw. I got... For whatever reason, I got swept up in the algorithm. I got hundreds of replies. Uh-huh. I think I could maybe count on one hand the number that were even

partially defending Dylan Larkin? Like there were one or two sort of like, well, I mean, but the Red Wings are bad kind of deal or, you know, like... The Red Wings are bad. This is undeniable. But I mean, like, what would you have to... Like, I could tweet out the hockey puckies round and somebody's going to be like, you moron, you imbecile.

it's not round. Mm-hmm, yeah. And so, you know, and I've been looking on like Red Wings forums and Reddits and stuff. Like, nobody, nobody is, if this is, if Dylan Larkin thought on any level that maybe this could be a PR battle, he's getting destroyed. And Steve Eisenman hasn't even said anything, publicly at least, and maybe not even privately, because God forbid Steve I doesn't mean crack a smile and actually try to seem like he enjoys being alive at any point.

But like Larkin's getting absolutely bodied here. Yep. So if that matters to them at all, like if, and when I say they, like obviously he's got people around him, if they have any plan to be anything other than like, you know what, just be the heel.

Be Matthew. Be the villain. Be that guy, be the villain. It's fine. Worked out for them. It's working out for Marner. Again, different situation, but everyone loves Mitch Marner right now. It'll work for you too.

Don't worry about it. Fine. But if they're thinking was, you know, we can give, we can, public sentiment to some degree can help us. It's been a disaster so far, man. Nobody. Nobody likes this. Yeah. That's exactly right.

But maybe the hope is that, you know, this whole thing drives down the price so much. And I don't think he would ever dog it, like, if they, you know, when they inevitably don't trade him this season and it's November. Like, I don't think we're sitting there going, Dylan Larkin has two points. And they're both secondary assists or whatever, right? Yeah, I've, I've had people, I know one guy was like, oh, yeah, what are you going to do when Dylan Larkins is, like, scoring it to his own net? And it's like, yeah, that was one of the five defending Dylan Larkin. about what... Yeah, and well, the other question...

Yeah, the other question is, like, what are you going to do when the Detroit Red Wings are, you know, second last in the Atlantic? It's like, oh, like this year? Okay, great. Awesome. It's too bad Dylan Larkin just

refuses to account for pre-shop movement, though. Like, that's why they're good. That'd be that fucking stupid. Last question. You're Steve Eiserman. You are... When you don't trade Dylan Larkin, Like you go to Dylan Larkin, I need more than three teams.

He says, screw you, that's the three teams. Trade me to one of those teams. Are you okay, see a training camp? Are you okay, go sit on your couch and don't even show up, but we own your rights for five years. So, like, which if this gets to the worst case, which I'm not saying it will, because in three months there's lots of time for things to work out. but but if you had to pick one of those extremes which one do you pick I think you can't

I think it would become like a a PA like a PA problem if you if you just go okay you're never playing for us again I'll see you in five years well they're going to be too busy in Edmonton with like a full trying to extract Connor McDavid full SWAT team

do not yeah they're talking to him like those lawyers you see on Instagram who are like don't talk to the cops for any reason here's why It is like, oh, okay. You know, it would be very funny. If I'm Connor McDavid and I just, you know, I just wanted to play a little prank, just load up my phone with photos of me Photoshopped into, like, big American markets.

Like, here's me in the King's Jersey. Here's me in a, and you just hand that to Mike Babcock. Oh, yeah, take a look, man. No, Connor, I meant like, what are you playing for this year? Yeah, no, I understood the question. So, yeah, I don't really have anything. I mean, we just talked about it for 45 minutes, I think. Yeah.

Other than that. I don't have anything else to say about it, but it really is just wait and see at this point, like who's going to blink first or whatever. But look, I wish there was this kind of thing every summer. This is awesome for me. I love to think about it. Stay strong, Stevie. We all got your back. I don't.

I don't fucking care one way or the other. None of my business, you know. I'm just saying it's very important that American centers understand that they can't quit on their original six teams. that's just all I'm saying. Yeah. And again, you know, maybe a year from now you're singing a different tune about maybe we should trade Matthews. Like, who cares really, you know? That's, I think that's, again, in the range of outcomes.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, remember a few weeks ago that they were like banging out like, oh, this guy won this guy won this award, this guy won this award, this guy won this award, this guy won this award. It feels like they stopped for a while. Mm-hmm. And then, like, during the cup final, they were like, oh, fuck. We didn't announce any of these. And so they just announced like seven in five days.

It's been really weird. So I guess I think this is the order in which they were announced. John Cooper wins the Jack Adams. Yeah, I was mildly surprised, but I think ultimately when you look at the voting, what we had talked about as a possibility ended up happening, which is there was a substantial... A substantially large minority of voters who just decided it was John Cooper's ear. And there was a larger majority of voters who wanted to do the traditional thing of, like,

whoever team was the most surprising. And that block split their votes enough that John Cooper ends up winning. Yep. Which I'm fine with. Did you see apparently, like, a bunch of broadcasters didn't turn in ballots? Did you? Yes, I did see that. People are mad about that.

I get why you would be mad about that if like you were a voter guy and you're like, look, I fucking, I slave over this thing for like, whatever, like three weeks putting this together and making sure I have all my, all my teas crossed and all my eyes dotted. Because if you make a single mistake on your pHWA ballot, they take away your vote forever. whatever the... There is now, like, a whole humiliation ritual that happens if you, if you screw up even one time. And, and so, like, to me, I go... Including not sending in a ballot, I believe. I think if you, if you know show it, the PWA takes your ballot away. And so if you're, if you're a voter guy who that's like a thing that you are, like, live in mortal fear of, basically, I can see that being really fucking

annoying for you that like a bunch of the broadcasters have one thing to vote on and they and you can't even do that you know like that makes sense to me that you'd be mad about it for sure um so yeah I I sit there

and I say like you had to do one thing and it's the easiest one to do you just look at the fucking records you don't have to look at advanced status you don't have to do anything and like whatever 15 broadcasters like I can't be bothered.

Okay. They shouldn't get to vote. In much the same way, the PHWA doesn't allow people to vote in the future. Because ultimately, who fucking cares what the broadcasters think? It is a bit of a weird one that broadcasters get to do. It's the only one they get to do. So, like, who fucking cares? Just take it away from them.

I don't care. What's the difference to me? It doesn't matter. especially considering it's the one where we're always like, yeah, it's kind of stupid. They just give it to whichever coach had the highest PDO this year. All right, great. I think John Cooper deserved it. Great.

That's fine. If not for this year specifically, then just like generally speaking, where you're going to say? I don't, I get that there were a lot of fans, because there are so many good candidates this year, there were a lot of fans who thought their guy should have won, especially in Buffalo. Lindy Ruff would was Yeah, he got the the sabres into the playoffs. Yeah.

That's what a feat. But I get, I have not seen anyone be like, John Cooper. Yeah. Is the jackat? Like, yeah, it's well, earned.

Yep. Yeah, you can't say he has not put in the work to get that one. So that's great. Zachorensky wins the Norris. Cool. Yep. That's exactly right.

I don't have ballots on any of this stuff except the Masterton, so I don't know who I would have voted for or what my exact order would have been. But yeah, Zach Wrenzky kind of rocks. Oh, yeah, a great defenseman. Hey, does Dylan Larkin know that he's American? Is that? Who wants to play in Columbus, though? Rensky's going to be the next one, probably. I do want to go to Vegas.

This one was one where I was like, the doubt, like, I totally find. with Werensky winning it, even though I don't think he was the best defenseman in the league this year. But the down-ballot stuff, I was like, what? You know, like, I'll give you a good example here. Kail McCarr comes in second, Rastafalian comes in third. It's like, yeah, I guess so. Sure, that's fine.

Then Evan Bouchard, Moritz, Sider, Lane Hudson, and then you get down to Quinn Hughes at seven. And it's like, you think Quinn Hughes was the seventh best defenseman in the league this year? Well, it's... I understand that that's not how old. Quinn Hughes is the head the seventh best season of a defenseman this year. Yeah, I understand. Like, you know, we all know that if you do a draft today, even if the draft is only for one year,

I think McCar and Hughes go one two ahead of Werenzky. But Hughes just missed enough time and that... Yeah, I get it, especially in a crowded battle. Like, you got to bump somebody, so you look at the guy who's got a games played number that starts at the 6th. And you go, all right, I'll skip that guy. Even though he was, Minnesota Quinn Hughes was possibly the best defenseman in the league, period. And, like, Moritz-Citer, like, he would have been on my, like, MVP ballot, quite frankly. You know, that's how good he was in Detroit this year.

and he's fifth? What are you guys talking about? Is the Norris now that you've got to make the playoffs thing? Because, like, if that's true, why did Zach Wrenski win? Bad news for most cider, if that's the case. Yeah. Just a weird one. Again, down-ballot to me, I think Werenski's perfectly desert.

It's a lot like the Jack Adams for me, where it's like, yeah, there's like six guys where you told me he wins this year. I go, okay, great. Maybe not six, four, you know. Nick Suzuki wins the Selke. This is the most obvious... As had been pretty... I mean, honestly, I...

Do you think... Did... Did Sasha Barkoff manage to limp off the ice before Nick Suzuki's name was inscribed on that award? It was pretty close. And again, just like a totally... Yeah, what could you say different? Like he was very good this year.

And it just felt like in much the same way, Barkov went healthy. You just like go, okay, he's winning it this year. We all agree? Great. Perfect. I think you could do that for Suzuki. This year, for sure, no problem.

Everybody goes, yep, obviously. That's what the move was always going to be. So no problems with that. Again, down ballot, it's always funny to see, like, who gets the odd, like, fourth place vote. And you're like, he's a defenseman. Where are you talking? You know, like, but that's fine.

Good for, good for him. Did you see the video where, what did Cole Cawfield win? One of the beautiful, nice guy awards. Yeah, he won one of the, he won the Lady Bing. That's right, yeah. Did you see the video of, of, they, the Canadians told, yeah, Suzuki, you're presenting the Lady Bing to, to Cole Cawfield, and they told Cole Cawfield, you're giving the Selky to,

Nick Suzuki. Mm-hmm. I did. And so, you know, they both went in thinking, like, I'm giving the other guy a nice surprise. And then so they were both like, oh, wow, that's crazy. You know, like, that's a good, that's a good gag, in my opinion.

Yeah, that's sure. I have to object just on the grounds that all of these little viral heartwarming videos are costing us the award show. And I want a sea list comedian making jokes about a sport he doesn't watch. Well, great, I got great news for you because the cute little video they did for Andre Vasselowski, they put a black bag over his head, threw him in a van, and pointed a gun at his head.

All right. Well, that's cool. And they were like, you're going to fucking die today, you piece of shit. Just kidding. You won the Vesna. Did you see this video? I must have missed that one. Okay.

So the video was, again, they're doing little heartwarming things. oh, we got your dog to pull it in on a wagon and it says I love you, Dad. You're the greatest and here's a check for a million dollars. And for Vasilevsky, they get like a canine unit

from the Tampa PD and another cop to be like, yeah, there was something suspicious in your car, we're just going to have to ask you to stand back while we search it. And then the suspicious thing in his car was the Vesna. Yeah. And they were like,

he was really, scared because we zip tied him and fucking... He probably was. Put duct tape over his mouth. Yeah, okay. Probably was some crap in that car. They were like, someone's

been sneaking around the parking lot and we think they put some contraband in your car or some shit like that and he's like, what? And then they're like, we had you. And it's like, yeah, you pulled a fucking canine unit out, man. I got to go and look for that one. That one might be worth losing the award show over.

It's not, it's honestly not as funny as I'm making it out to be. because like the cop this is going to shock you the cops aren't funny you know so it was tough it was tough to uh to see that one because again every other one is like we trained a billion butterflies to carry to carry the art Ross trophy to your house and land on it and uh this this one they were like if you don't give us a million you'll never see your wife and family again. It's like, wait a second.

We just found this note, and it's just letters cut out of a magazine that says, congrats on the Vezina. Wow. All right. That's fun. And then Connor McDavid wins the Ted Lindsay. All right, great. Players love them some Connor McDavid. I agree. Conner McDavid is the best player in the world.

That's fine. So Hart must be coming soon, right? I would imagine it's coming today. Okay. So six seconds after we stop recording? Yeah, of course. And they're going to, you know, they're going to tell Connor McDavid, there's a bomb in his house. We got you!

You totally bought that because we had the bomb squad there. Mike Babcock, I'd actually like to show you a photo on my phone. And it's a picture of him with the heart trophy. He's like, yeah, that was me from one through six years ago. Why did you Photoshop? that you could have just used. Yep. That's it.

Why don't we do the plugs and get out of here? Find me at the athletic. Got the content coming constantly. Might do a little quiz tomorrow, so that'll be fun.

I'm going to be on with Gentilly and Frankie tomorrow and subscribe to the red light newsletter. Okay, great. And then for me, head over to Lee Prospects. I had a notebook earlier this week about a lot of the stuff we just talked about.

Oh, we didn't talk about this. There is a growing sentiment, one that I expressed in my notebook, Sean, that Mitch Marner might win the Khan-Smith, regardless of outcome at this point. I think game three shifted it from Marner is presumptive favorite if Vegas wins to Marner is an absolute lock if Vegas wins and we're at least in the conversation

of could it I think there's two I think there is could Mitch Marner absolutely like just deserve the consmithe on the merits at the end of a series

and also is there a way that the votes split out if Carolina ends up with you know the Hall of Stancoven line is all getting votes and then everyone has Mitch Marner's second or third and that's enough to bump up. Yeah, I think it's possible.

Yeah, I think it's downright likely. And honestly, I can't even decide if Mitch Marner winning the Kahn Smythe for losing in the playoffs would be better or worse for the whole deal. But it would be extremely funny. It would be extremely funny. So yeah, I wrote about that and some other stuff yesterday. And also now is the time to sign up for elite prospects because our. draft guide came out last week. It's the biggest, most comprehensive I think we've ever done.

And I believe there is a deal. I don't want to say the numbers because I don't want to be wrong about it, but I believe there is a deal on annual subscriptions right now to celebrate the release of the draft guide. So if you're not locked in now, you can be very easily and for cheaper than you would normally pay. So go check that out. and then head over to patreon.com slash puck soup,

where we have all kinds of bonus episodes, including Sean and I very cannily, I would say, jumped all over the latest trend in sports. And we did the 82 and O. Remember the 82 and O day? Yeah, we did it to get it out of the way. We're done with it now. Everybody really liked the episode.

It went perfectly smoothly. There were no hiccups. No, we didn't get mad at the... We didn't. get mad at the system at all. We learned a lot about which players are actually good and which ones are not. Like Nick Lidsstrom apparently is like one of the worst players in the league in the 2000s, according to whatever site we, I don't even remember, cap wages, I think it was.

Anyway, we did that. We had a lot of fun. People liked it. Check that out. And we'll have more bonus episodes coming your way once we get a little more clarity on schedules because certain members are in the, in the traveling party going back and forth between Carolina and Vegas. So there's that to consider as well.

Thank you for listening to the main show. And we're going to go to that Patreon and record a mailbag right now. So if you want to check that out, do it. Thanks so much. Have a good one. Bye-bye.