Puck Soup - Jim Vandermeer

Episode Date: March 1, 2019

Greg, Ryan and Sean put a bow around the NHL trade deadline by checking out their wagers from last week. We look at the sad state of the Ottawa Senators and Edmonton Oilers, as well as our favorite deadline moves. Plus, Zdeno Chara vs. Evander Kane, the guy who ate cat shit, how MLB's rules changes relate to hockey, John Tavares returns to Long Island and your team's biggest traitors. Plus, a fascinating discussion about hockey, life and Brexit with former NHLer and current Belfast Giant Jim Vandermeer! Sponsored by Seat Geek!

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I'm Greg Wichenski of ESPN. I'm Ryan Lambert from Yahoo. I'm Sean McHugh from The Athletic In urine Puck Soup Apologies if it's a little echoey In here for me I'll tell you why later

But we have some pressing news to get to first I don't want this to become a gimmick Where we talk about fecal matter At the top of the show each week But I've been very busy And Lambert when we were talking about What to talk about on the show this week

And there's plenty to talk about With a trade deadline and John Tavares and all this various and sundry things that we'll get to, mentioned a story that I was frankly tangentially familiar with, but not completely familiar with because I haven't really delved into it. But chat me up, Ryan. What about this guy that ate cat shit and got a job from Dean Blondell? Well, that's more or less the story.

Wait, who's the guy and why did he eat cat shit? So the Leafs, I'm trying to remember. the last Saturday, I want to say. The Leifes were down 3-0 in the first period to Montreal. And some guy on Twitter said, hey, if the Leifes win this game, I will eat cat shit out of my litter box, my cat's litter box here. And the Leifes, of course, came back to win that game. And he did it.

And then, like, two days later announced on Facebook, I've been offered a job opportunity by Dean Blundell to work on his morning show. I did see references to Is cat shit guy the new dart guy? So now I understand that the guy who painted his whole head blue And his gimmick was smoking a cigarette in the arena He got a radio job And now the guy who ate cat shit also got a radio job

So my question to you, Sean, is Why don't you have a radio job? Yeah, that's I think the question that a lot of us are asking ourselves I mean, let's it's it's if anybody is listening to this and you're saying, wait a second, who is Dean Blundell? Because I'm guessing if you're outside of the Toronto market, you may not be familiar with his work. Picture a guy who would hire someone who ate cat shit. That's it.

You got it. That's the guy. So I think my understanding of this, and I haven't followed the story super deeply, so Ryan can correct me if I'm wrong. I think when we talk about this guy getting offered a job, Like, it's not like he's getting paid to go and be on the radio and this is his new career. Like, I think it's more like he's going to be on the show, you know, once a week or whatever to, I don't know. I can't even imagine what they're going to have him do.

Well, yeah. To use it in radio parlance. He's the stunt boy. He's the guy who comes in to be the stunt boy. Exactly. I mean, it sounds like they're basically going to bring him in and make fun of him. And then eventually when it's not funny anymore, which you'll probably take about two weeks. that might be the end of that.

I don't, I think he said in his Facebook post, he's not like quitting his job to go and pursue a career in radio. He's, uh, a lucrative, he's, I mean, I guess he's, he's a fan who has,

through weird circumstances, been given an opportunity he wouldn't otherwise get and has decided to grab it and run with it for as long as that, uh, last. And I, I guess in some sense, good for him.

But, uh, yeah, my only, the only good part of this is and I'm sure we'll get to we'll get to this other part later but the fact that this happened the same week

as that terrible New York Islander fan video is really like settling down Lee fans because you know they would have been coming with like the full mockery and instead they've had to like dial it down to like 98% mockery because one of them ate cat poop and got a job about it. So it's sort of, it takes a little bit of the sting off of the, uh, pointing and

laughing at the other, at the worst of the other fan base. Now, if we're ID on Blundell, I'd be on my 15th radio job, but that's besides the point. I would probably do one of two things with this guy. I would, I would obviously do a taste test, but the question is, do I do a taste test of what did this cat last eat? Or would I do a taste test of from what breed of cat did this come from? What has the better potential, Ryan? You know, if you're the kind of connoisseur who can tell the difference between like a Persian and a tabby, that way, I don't know. A cat shit sommelier, if you know. Yeah, that I think is maybe asking too much.

I think maybe the other way to go with it is better, but, you know, I don't know what this guy's background is. Maybe he is just that damn good. He's the economy, David, of eating cat shit. I don't know. Well, now at least we know what's going to be on his business card. So, yeah, so please, hockey world, give us a break for the next episode. Don't do anything. Coaches don't talk about your players shit themselves.

Fans don't eat shit. I mean, the Colorado fans that are always mad at me can eat shit. But, like, everybody else don't eat shit. And then maybe we could not have to do this off the top of every shit. Are Colorado fans mad at you? Colorado fans are always sour at me for two reasons. One, because I had the nerve to say that their goaltending was in the bottom third of the league, which it is this year. And then because it was really quite good for a while, and they all came back and pissed all over that prediction.

And they're also one of those weird fan bases because I'm outward about being a Devils fan that believes that whenever I'm critical of the team, it tracks back to them beating the Devils in 2001. Sure. And like, I have no anger towards the Colorado Avalanche for 2001. I have anger towards Ray Bork and the goddamn fucking pity party around Ray Bork and Gary Thorne, my favorite announcer going, Rababork, you know, and all that. And exit 16W, the exit that I took to go to the Meadowlands to watch my favorite team ended up becoming a fucking meme for the other team because they needed 16 wins to win the cup.

I hate that, but I harbor no ill will towards the Colorado Avalanche. Sounds like you get to male will. you're jealous. Towards Ray Bork and that specific slice of the affluence. But how could I hate Gabriel Landiscag who shot a video in which he masturbated in front of a mirror while listening to Imagine Dragons? How could I hate Nathan McKinnon who is finally blossoming into the player we all believed he could be? How could I hate Miko Ranton who probably is going to sign an offer sheet this summer with another team and really make things interesting for me? How could I hate any of those people?

Exactly. So we made some, do you have the deadline wagers in front of you about with Sean? I do, yeah. Okay. So the trade deadline was Monday. It was fantastic. Me and Emily sat in a big conference room with our bosses. We ate sandwiches for five hours and then worked for about 15 minutes. It was a great day. And there was some cool shit that happened. But we made some predictions last week about what we thought would happen. And many of them I think were wrong. Yes. So, well, you know what? You guys did okay. So let's run them down. The first one I gave you is the over under on the total trades. And I had two here. I had 29.5 for the week leading up to the deadline and 19.5 on deadline day.

I can't remember which one I gave you guys or if it was both. But Greg, you bet over. Ryan, you bet under. And they both came in over. There were 23 trades on deadline day and there were 32 in the time between our last podcast and the end of the deadline. I would like to thank the Winnipeg Jets. I'm going to say. For getting me to over.

Yeah. Exactly. Stupid chill day off. And yeah. And you know what? Let's even skip to that one because that was one of them was the Canadian team to make the most trades. And the heavy favorite that Ryan backed was the Ottawa Senators, which we had at three to two. But Greg pulled the long shot bet at 18 to 1.

He went with the Winnipeg Jets. Wow. Look at that shit. Oh, my God. He actually pulled it off because. Kevin Chevelde off, like a kid from a repressed family who like finally gets to go off on his own and try his first beer and suddenly is just drunk with the joy of pulling off trades was just randomly trading guys like well even past 3 o'clock. They're like 3.30 and you're still hearing about the Jets trading some guy you've never heard of for some other guy. And I like to imagine that they had to like tackle Kevin Cheveldeufelday off and drag him away from his phone together.

him to stop making trades because the Winnipeg Jets made six trades. The Senators made four, which is a lot. That would put them, I think, in the top five. But the Winnipeg Jets were just, like, not letting anyone else come up for air. So it's like, it's like, NHL Central Registry. Yeah, it's me, Kevin Chavilleau. Oh, again. Sir, we have 17 of your trades in our fax machine right now. Give us a moment. They mentioned on, on Twitter, somebody, mentioned that it might be an NHL rule that the maximum number of transactions you can make in a day is six, and that might be the only thing to stop Kevin Chevaldea from trading 15, 16 more guys. That was impressive.

Sean, you bring up a good point, though, because it's funny, like, how quickly history can change. Like, there was a time when he was the poster boy for not making the deal. The Tyler Myers deal was the first player for player trade. I think he made, right? He went, like, literally years to the point where there were. people questioning and went years on a team that was kind of underachieving compared to expectations quite a lot. So, you know, there were articles written like, what is Kevin Chevaldeoves' actual job if he's never making Player for Player of Trades? And then he made the Tyler Myers' Evander

Kane one, which was a big one. And then he kind of stopped again. But now he's, he's all grown up. He's the, I mean, I don't know how many of these trades were actually player for player trades. Some of them were just those random, you know, shuffling around. But every, every trade counts. We do not judge trades here. Every trade. By the way, if they traded for Kevin Hayes to be a third line center and not expect him to hit anybody, he's going to be fine there. But I kind of, I think, I kind of like Ryan Little a little bit as a two line, as a second line center for that team. I'm surprised. I feel like, I feel like maybe Ryan can talk me into Kevin Hayes as, you know, since he's a college guy, because I've never really felt like he was a sort of impact type

of guy that you trade a first round pick and plus. He always seemed to me to be the gentleman's Nick Bukstad. Yeah, like Nick Bukestad's good, though. Like he's a high-end second-line center. And Winnipeg, you know, like I also think Brian Little is very good and kind of, you know, I don't want to say underrated because I think everybody kind of rates him more or less properly, But, like, he's a well-regarded player. And so if you can go get another one of those for what's going to be, what, the 23rd pick in the draft and a guy you don't really need in Brendan Lemieux, like, that's fine.

Yeah, okay, that's, I mean, that's it. I thought it was a good, I thought it was a good haul for the, for the Rangers to, I thought they did well. And speaking of which, that can take us into our next one, because we also did the, the American team that would have the most trades. between now and the deadline. And the Rangers were our favorites at 5 to 1, nearly ahead of Detroit at 6 to 1. Ryan, you did take the Rangers backing the favorite again. Greg, you took the Minnesota Wilde, who we headed 10 to 1. The Rangers made three trades.

The Wild made 2, I think, because they got all theirs out of the way early. But the team that kind of came out of nowhere to blow away the field at 12 to 1 making 6 trades, was the Florida Panthers. Whoa. Like Randy Orton, an RKO out of nowhere. That's right. Yeah. And including, by the way, I'm not saying that the Florida Panthers

listened to this podcast and set out intentionally to win this bet, but their total of six includes those two trades that they made with the Carolina Hurricanes where they traded a player for future considerations and then immediately minutes later traded another player going the other way for, like, that's one trade. are we doing? Hold on you. I've got a theory.

I've got a theory on this. And it's that Don Waddell did the future consideration stance because he didn't want the Jeff Skinner trade to now be Jeff Skinner for Thomas Yerko to actually knock it down a peg from Cliff Pew. Okay. That's my theory. You know what? That's as good a theory as any because that was, I would love to find out.

Or, I mean, I like your theory too, that the computer boys are all listening to this podcast. while they're taping away on their computers. That's better than my theory because I've always, like when I was a kid, and I'm sure this is not something you could actually do. But my dream was always to see it like a deadline deal of future considerations for future considerations. And then they just fill in the future considerations later and make like make the trade that way. Like right before the playoffs, the Panthers are like, here, you take take this guy. Mike Hoffman. Why in an era in which teams are trading away fifth round picks in 2002,

Do we even need future considerations? I don't understand. Trade a 7th in 2007 and just call it a day. And you should have to reveal what the future considerations are because A, fans want to know, and B, it's extra funny when it turns out the future considerations are nothing and you're just giving the player away. So, yeah, congratulations to the Florida Panthers

for pulling off the upset there. A couple of the other bets, we said over under on first round picks, trade it between now and the deadline, and we said... This was a good one. We said that that would include. include conditional first round picks as long as they were announced as conditional firsts. And that turned out to be important because you both bet the over was two and a half. And the over came in for you based on two first round picks being traded and two more conditional picks.

The Duches trade had one and one. There was the Kevin Hayes and then the Brandon Montour trade came in as a first round pick. So we had four there. Bet number three, this one was kind of interesting. Over Under for the biggest trade, total players and picks, including conditional picks, I set the over under at 5.5. You both bet the over. You both win that bet, but barely, because of all the-tog, the 32 trades, there was one trade that had six. And that was the Matthew Shane trade, and that included a conditional pick that may or may not actually play. So it was compared to previous years where there were big trades with like six, seven, eight assets. This one was actually, pretty low. Which is weird. You know what the weirdest thing about the Duchenne?

And we'll get to Ottawa in a second. Like, I really thought that they were going to take on more salary coming back the other way. That's why I thought that whatever trade Duchin was involved in would have been like seven players because they would have taken some bullshit contract back the other way. Yeah, they didn't take a dime back. That's wild to me. Because they're going to have to spend, what, $25 million just to get the cap floor?

Just to hit the floor, they've got a ton. Which is interesting because it opens the opportunity to do all sorts of neat stuff, either taking bad contracts or even laundering bad contracts where, you know, we all know you can only keep 50%. There's some guys out there, like Milan Luchin, even with the Oilers retaining 50%, I don't think there's a lot of teams lining up to pay him a $3 million cap hit. But is there a team out there that would pay him a $1.5 million cap hit? Now maybe you're getting into that zone. So if the Oilers retain and then the Senators retain and then they flip him somewhere else, or Louis Erickson or guys like that,

it puts them in an interesting position to do it. I'm curious to see if that's actually what the senators will do and whether they'll, like, create this misfit toys type of roster where they, you know, have all these guys that were buyout candidates for other teams or if they just do the more predictable thing and spend way too much money on certain free agents

that have character and whatever else. The problem for them, what I find, oh, good, yes, sir. Is that, like, anybody you'd think about buying out like that, or not buying out, but like trading as a salary dump or whatever, almost all of them have some sort of no trade, no move protection. Right. Right.

Yeah. Like, because I was looking at it when I wrote about like, oh, this is what the senator should do, since they're going to trade everybody and spend a ton of money. And I was like, oh, no, Bacchus, Lucci. Like, just go down the list of 9% of them. If you're Malan Luchich, would you not at least think about, going anywhere that's not Edmonton where you're going to play and have a chance. I mean, you come to Ottawa.

Obviously, it's an awful situation. You're not going to be anywhere near the playoffs. But you're going to be playing on potentially the first line. You know, if you want to play 15 minutes a night, like, that's kind of your option. Or do you want to stay in Edmonton and be the whipping boy? Or do you want to get traded somewhere else and be the healthy scratch who gets bought out? I don't know. Do you want to stay in Edmonton without?

lottery ticket called Connor McDavid and hope to God they get that thing figured out. And then all of a sudden you're on a winning team and you have to worry about being an machine team. The only way they're going to get figured out is by bringing in other players around him, at which point everyone points at your contract constantly. And you become like what David Clarkson was in Toronto, where it's just unworkable because even though all you did was sign the contract they put in front of you, you're now the villain because you're the one screwing up to salary cap.

So I don't know. Obviously, there's a lot, there's a lot of factors you think about. But I'm, you know, I'm not completely convinced that nobody would waive a no trade to come to Ottawa, if only because the opportunity here to get ice time is going to be tremendous because they don't have any players for the next couple of years. What I'm most interested in is, is if Pierre Dorian will treat each salary dump with the same puppy dog enthusiasm that is every transaction. Like when the coyotes do it,

Cheka's like, yeah, we're totally just getting Marion Hose's cap space. Like when Ottawa does it, are we going to have to see the same thing with like the Alex Burroughs trade where he's like, I just went to our locker room and like literally everybody said, Luchiche, really Pierre, that is incredible. Like nobody talked about the caput or anything. They're all just like, they love it. People were throwing candy and sweets at me. Roses, a few of them hug me.

There's the proudest day that he had ever had. There's the proudest day that Ottawa has ever had with this. That was actually really interesting to me because I like I understand that right now where the senators are at you you need to work some PR spin. But I mean, he came as close as I've ever heard a GM lately come to saying outright, I won this trade. Like I can't believe I, I, he was so excited about Eric. Are you talking about the Barrow straight or this deadline?

The Mark Stone, the Eric Brandt like getting Eric Branstrom. Like he was selling that so hard that he walked right up to the line of saying like I can't believe the Golden Knights gave this guy up. We totally ripped them off to get him. He didn't go quite that far. But usually in a league where GMs usually bend over backwards to never suggest that they've done well on a trade because they don't want to seem like they're burning a call league, he was really going over the top on the not completely genuine enthusiasm.

While we're talking about him, we might as well go down that path now. I think he did really well for having three assets. that totally weren't going to stay and had to get something for them. I mean, obviously, he pulled Brantstrom out of that deal, and that's an incredible player to add, but the best player, the best young player traded on Deadline Day. I thought he did okay in Columbus, including the getting the conditional first if he signs there.

Like, I thought for being against the wall and not exactly being terrific at his job, like the bar for me was set that don't get fleeced. And I actually think he did pretty good overall. He certainly did better than he did. on the Eric Carlson trade, which was... Right. So he kind of had a weird advantage

here where they clearly Columbus needed to like push all in to barely make the playoffs if they make it at all to, I don't know, save somebody's job probably. And so they were

just like, oh yeah, yeah, we'll take whoever you got, that's great. That's awesome. We'll just give you whatever you want. And then you know, they had an asset and Mark Stone where, what, four or five teams were probably like, yeah, we're very interested in acquiring this player. So that's really like he just happened to find a sucker in Columbus, basically, and have an asset everybody rightly wanted.

Yeah. The key with the Duchet deal is that conditional pick, because if, and that is a little bit tough for the senators because it's out of their control, you know, if Matt Duchenne doesn't want to sign in Columbus or if Columbus decides they don't want to or if they miss the playoffs and they have a change in the front office and they you know that doesn't happen then I think the return on Matt Duchenne is is probably looked back on as being not especially great although you know obviously if they miss the playoffs that the first round pick from this year will be will be much nicer than than they were expected but I if I can see a

scenario where Panarin leaves Bobrovsky leaves the blue Black Jackets feel like they have to keep Matthew Shane. They sign him. The senators get that 2020. And then the Blue Jackets aren't very good. And suddenly, once again, we have a situation where Matthew Shane has been traded for a future first round pick that a team might really regret giving up. I'm not suggesting next year's Blue Jackets are going to be this year's senators where they're finishing dead last. But they could be a lottery team.

Absolutely. And how ironic would that be of after all of this in 2020? the senators end up winning the lottery with a pick they acquire for Matt Duchenne. Right. And using that as a key piece of their rebuild. I think that would be a hell of a way to end this story. And like we mentioned, I mean, the part that you're forgetting is that Matthew Shane's also a plague inflicted on teams where they have to rebuild as soon as he gets there. Absolutely.

So, yeah, that's, I think, is the interesting piece to me. And the other thing that I thought was pretty fascinating, I don't know if you guys saw this, but Pierre Lebrun had a sort of behind the scenes of. of how the the Mark Stone deal went down. And according to him, like, it literally went down to the final minutes. And it was, I think he had it that the, the knights and the senators didn't agree on the trade until 215. So 45 minutes before the deadline. And but the knights agreement was conditional on them having a contract with Mark Stone. And they hadn't talked to him yet.

So with 45 minutes to go, they call up Mark Stone. start exchanging numbers and apparently like live on the phone are working back and forth on putting a deal together and that it comes back like 15 minutes before the deadline that they've got a deal and okay so the trade goes through and and pierre kind of um suspects i don't think he is necessarily reporting but he suspects that there there must have been a plan B for the senators and the fact that the nashville predators didn't make the wayne simmons deal until like three minutes before the deadline would suggest that maybe they were they were plan B that were if if if Mark Stone wouldn't agree to a long-term deal with the Knights the Knights the Knights were

going to back out and then Stone was going to go to the Predators as a rental it's interesting the interesting thing to you like Ryan you mentioned like him lucking into Columbus as an overcompensating trade partner like Vegas is very much that too like Vegas is spending like a drunken sailor in Vegas like that the tar trade last year was stupid this one is is probably a little bit of overcompensation. But even if it's not like, they're, they're dealing from such a stack deck because they have so many picks and so many prospects from being the team that they are, that I feel like other teams weren't necessarily going to ante up with the same package for Stone, and that's probably why they won the day. And it's a good, it's a good deal. Like, I was a little

surprised they turned around and signed him so quickly. But that's a pretty stout top six for them in the next, you know, four or five years. Yeah, I, I, I, I, said it on Twitter and got a decent amount of guff for it. But I think that can be one of the, like, maybe the best top six in the league if things

go well. I know, like, the guys who were on the top line last year aren't having the same kind of success because Bill Carlson's not shooting 28% anymore. But, like, those guys are still awesome. And if they're your second line now,

because you have Stasney, Patsy ready in stone as your top line. I don't know, you know, maybe Toronto. And then, you know, I guess it depends on what happens with Tampa this summer. I, you know, and just to put a cherry on it for this trade, like, it just goes to show you that as much heat as people get in their like personal relationships, it's all business at the end of the day. I heard from multiple people that the, that George McPhee was a hell of, at Pierre Dorian last year after the Eric Carlson debacle at the trade deadline, like, to the point of like just being fucking fuming about it. And so they do business again a year

later. And I just find that to be kind of interesting because the league is so populated with people that just seem to make trades with their friends, Paul Finn. And, you know, it's interesting to see two guys that had some heat kind of revisiting that relationship a year later in almost the same situation and getting a deal done. Sean, you wanted to talk about the, the senators of arena situation too. Well, I mean, just say we should just touch on it because I don't think it was a big surprise, but we got the news yesterday that basically it's fallen through. There had been an extension for Eugene Malnick to work out his differences with the partners

on the project. And he did not. And basically the mayor of Ottawa yesterday had pretty much laid the blame for this, this whole project falling apart at the feet of Eugene Melnick. And now nobody's quite sure where it goes. It may be somebody else gets to come in and build the arena. and that'll obviously give them leverage over, uh,

over the senators as far as potentially owning the team at some point or, or working out some sort of agreement. But it's, uh, in, in, in what is, was already a pretty miserable week to,

to be a senator's fan. Uh, this was kind of just the cherry on top that, uh, even, even this arena that is presumably a key part of the way that Eugene Melnick is going to spend the salary cap for five straight years like he promised,

uh, Now it doesn't... Near the salary cap. He didn't say too. Near. He said near. Near. Near. In... But you said, you're essentially saying... You're not not to spend anywhere near the salary cap. You're essentially saying that if they built, if the arena gets built, it's going to be built by somebody who doesn't, like, bend over the senators on terms. They won't own their own building, which is the whole point of this thing.

Well, it's, it's possible. I mean, that's, that's one way this could go. I mean, this is, you know, it's, we're talking big, big business, big egos. It's, it's always possible. They, they could turn around tomorrow. and say, okay, we're back and we're ready to work again. But there's been a lot of bridges burned. And yeah, this is the point where somebody else, I think, might step in because the city still has this land. They still want to get this project built, presumably, including an NHL Ready Arena.

And, you know, could you have a situation where someone else comes in and builds it and then it's just sitting there waiting for a tenant? It could all become a mess. Or if you're a senator's fan, it could become the pressure point that forces Eugene Meln like to sell the team to this other group, and then everyone's happy and things are wonderful. We'll see. So in short term, they'll still be in Canada. They're going to be pretty bad next year.

I'm going to guess tickets are available. And if you want to get Senators tickets next year or tickets to any sport or concert, you bet you're your seat geek. Was that better, Ryan? Did it make you feel better on that transition? That was good. Yeah. Okay, good. Getting tickets online can be far too complicated with hundreds of sites and varying levels of reliability.

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tickets. Where are we now in the bets? We have more bets to talk about that way. We've got two more. We'll finish off the last two. Bet number six, this ended up being kind of a dud. It was how many goalies would, who played in the NHL this year would be traded between now the deadline. We set the over under at 3.5 and ended up being one. King Kay was the only one. You guys both bet the under. So you both win. Yeah, because the Cam Talbot deal happened like way early. That had already been done. And, you know, we had the over-under a little high because typically when a goalie gets traded in the NHL, there's another goalie coming back. But that wasn't the case here. When that trade first happened, it kind of felt like, you know, with him going to Columbus,

like was this possibly setting up something bigger or, you know, was it a first domino? But it turned out it wasn't. It was just New Jersey clearing the roster spot. I'm still really surprised the sharks didn't add something in gold. Yeah. And maybe the price, maybe the prices were too high on like a Jimmy Howard or maybe they just didn't want to move him or whatever. I think what Howard refused to waive his no trade, I think, is what I saw. All right. Well, that would make sense.

That would make sense because that was the most confusing. That could have, yeah, made him better. That was the most confusing one that not, to not get traded was Jimmy Howard. I really couldn't figure out why Detroit wouldn't work a move there. But, yeah, if it's a no trade situation, then. I mean, if he's on the Red Wings, he has a no trade. That's right. And then there was that weird Ryan Miller is going to the sharks, but then he didn't thing that happened because.

I don't feel like it was a thing of like a fake account or anything like that like a legitimate account said it was going to happen and then it didn't yeah John Hove and Mayor's Manor who's got good info said it was the one he reported it and you know sometimes eat the bar and sometimes the bar when it comes to trade rumors and such because you know information comes at you from different places and sometimes just bad info

all right what's the last bet there one was, this one ended up being kind of interesting. It was between now and the deadline, how many trades will be made involving a player who has been an all-star? We set the over under at 3.5. You guys both bet over. It came under. There were only two players by my count who have been all-stars, and that's Matt Dushain and Wayne Simmons. Those are the only two guys that were traded. Mark Stone has not been an all-star. Now there is Matt Succarello, and all the other guys, Panarin, Jimmy Howard, Jeff Carter, you know, know, on down the list, Thomas Fannick didn't get traded.

So there was, that, that is one that usually ends up being a sneaky over and it ended up being, being a big under this time around. And future considerations was never an All-Star? I don't think so, not yet. Okay, because we would have hit the over on that one. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Now, favorite trade for all three of us of the deadline, I think mine's probably the San Jose

Sharks, Gustav Nyquist trade. I often look at the Sharks roster and say to myself, okay, those are two great lines. It'd be nice if Joe Thornton had one more piece to play with on the third line. And now he does. And I thought the cost was pretty good. I thought making that deal before the actual deadline day was smart. And I kind of dig that move. I think that puts them squarely on the same level as your Nashvilles and your Winnipegs and your Calgary's as far as a depth of offense.

They were already fifth in the league in scoring. I think that was my favorite move of the day. I, my favorite, you know, and it's not necessarily one I would rank as, as the best trade or the biggest impact, but just is, I was really fascinated by the Predators in the Wild and the Grandin and the trade because that is as close as we came to like a legitimate hockey trade where it's two guys of roughly the same age, roughly the same sort of player kind of where, you know, it was just kind of too, you know, it was just kind of too. teams that seemed like they were betting that the other team's guy was better than their guy. And when it first came through, I was really kind of scratching my head, wondering what the wild were doing. And I felt like the predators had kind of maybe stolen something here. And I've seen some arguments that it might be closer than you think.

But I do find that really interesting, especially since it's a new GM trading with the mother of all veteran GMs. And I just found that real interesting. No picks, no salary considerations. really just two-team swapping guys at roughly the same stage of their career and betting that their new guys can be better than the old guy. Yeah, I kind of saw it more as a Charlie Coil for Ryan Donato type trade, where Kevin Fiala, I'm trying to remember. I think he's like 21, 22, and Michael Granlin's like 25, 26, something like that. And it was just, you know, speeding up the process because Kevin Fiala, when, like, if he ever becomes what everybody thinks he's going to become, will be roughly as good as Michael Granland.

And the predators didn't necessarily want to wait around and find out. They'd just rather have Michael Granland. Yeah. I mean, he's, I just looked at. He's 22. So, you know, not, I'm saying the same ballpark, but you're right. I mean, four years in today's NHL is a gap. Well, yeah, I mean, it's still going up the aging curve versus being at the peak of it, right?

Like, 26 is about when guys stop improving. And, like, we have a pretty good idea of, okay, we know who Michael Granland is. We don't quite know who Kevin Fiala is. And I feel like probably he was a little disappointing for Nashville this year. This year, yeah, 23 goals last year, but just 10 this year. But it is interesting because when you're, you know, when you're, you're, when you're Paul Fenton, and you've got a team like Minnesota that's disappointing and kind of on the older side, you don't necessarily think that the guys that you're going to be trading away are going to be the 26-year-olds.

But I guess if there's no market for the 30-something-year-olds or the guys that there might be a market for like Eric Stahl don't want to go, you're kind of left to either stay the course or make bigger moves that might involve guys that wouldn't have been your first choice. The most fascinating thing about the wild trades were the clear psychological damage, the Nieder Rider for Victor Rask trade has caused amongst wild fence. Like Paul Fenton can't do shit right now without somebody in Minnesota being like, this is horrible. This guy can't even manage to close the bathroom door, let alone manage to make a trade. And like it is incredible to see how one bad deal, and it is a fucking terrible deal, let's be honest.

Really bad. Has completely poisoned the well. It's like, you know, it's like when the pilot episode of a sitcom comes on the air and people hate it, and then the show is canceled within eight episodes because no one gave it a second chance. It's like that one trade is now cemented Paul Fenton as a bubbling fool in the eyes of Minnesota fans. Yeah, no. It was one of those trades where the second it was made, everybody who is smart about this kind of thing was like, wait, what? Hold on.

Victor Rask, the Hurricanes guy who sticks. That trade was like the buff bagwell debut on Monday Night Raw of NHL after trades. Just immediately everyone was like, no, not. That's it. Scrap the entire thing. We're done. Yeah, Paul Fenton crashed through a wall wearing a glittery stormtrooper mask and fell in for the sting. That's it.

So there we go. That closes off the bet. So, Greg, you won. You, uh, between your Winnipeg, long shot. And I think there was the only one where you guys actually were on different sides on the over under. You hit the over. So you win. And you are now flush with imaginary.

I'd like to thank the Academy. You know, movies are where dreams take flight. And I would like to read 70,000 names off this piece of loose leaf paper as the orchestra plays. Everybody at CAA. Yeah, that's right. All right. Before we get to our guest this week, there was a notable fight in the NHL, notable because there are no more fights, also notable because it was a fight that involved Dano Chara. I'm often asked who the toughest person in the NHL is or the like the most intimate or whatever. It's always Chara. It's never not going to be Chara. Chara doesn't need to fight because no one wants to fight him because he could end you. And so to see Evander Cain step up and try to take him on. and jump them basically and get a few licks in before Charra took over and tried to end him. It was interesting.

But what were your thoughts on that whole curve? I actually thought the league got it right that Tara was trying to hit through him, got contact with the head because Van der Kaine's head was sort of prone. And, you know, wasn't looking to pick the head or anything like that. It's just there's a seven-inch difference between the two guys. And that's just going to happen when, when Kane's kind of bent over. But at the same time, I'm also like kind of feeling for Evander King because he knows. he just got hit in the head. He looks over at the referee.

He's just standing there. And so he's like, all right, I'll just take on this man, mountain. I give him credit for having the Cajonese to do it. Yeah. I think I'm with you. I was not shocked that it wasn't a suspension. I mean, we can argue all day whether the league should factor in size differences on this stuff, but they do. Size matters, as they say.

That's what I've heard. So it ends up being a thing where, you know, if, VanderKane obviously wasn't happy when, you know, you look at his Twitter feed, whatever, he tweeted out like the three blind mice or whatever it was. I got to say the one thing that really, and I had a weird experience, and this is partly because I've, like, I've been sick for the last week, and my brain is doing weird things and going in weird places. But when I first watched the clip of the Evander Cain Zadanochera fight, I was. briefly convinced that somebody as a joke had swapped in audio from a different fight of Jack Edwards on top of that fight? Because what Jack Edwards was yelling did not seem to have any resemblance.

Like, if you just listen to the audio, you would think that he was witnessing a murder. Like the most one-sided fight, he's yelling like, oh, he's feeding him. He's just a... Have you had enough? Sedano Chara, taking the life out of this man. One swipe after another, shaking him with a scalpel at his side. Like, they were impressed. Like, and meanwhile, Zadano Char is landing, like, three punches and the fight's over.

Like that, and he won the fight. Like, it's where both guys are just, like, holding each other at an arm's length, and one guy's trying to come over top, like, with his whole body. Right. You can do if your Zadano Char, obviously. Exactly. And I'm sure it's not fun. Like, I'm sure if Zadano Char punched me in the back of the head once like that,

my head would explode into, like, a fine mist. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, my God, like, is there so little fighting in the league now that, like, Jack Edwards has just forgotten what an actual one-sided fight looks like and has to... In 1976, a brave group of farmers rose up and took on the British Imperial Army in 2019, a brave 6'9 Slovakian rose up and took on the insurgency from San Jose. That's it. That was exactly it. So, yeah, if you haven't seen the fight, definitely go and, and, Get it with that audio and see if you can piece together. I'm impressed because I just checked this. I didn't check it the other day.

If you put blind mice into the GIF search on Twitter, it is at least one of the first six returns is the Blind Mice GIF that he used. So the notion of an NHL player entering in blind mice into the GIF locator on Twitter and then using that function really warm us my heart. And I give him kudos for doing it. And he probably didn't get fined either, which is interesting. I don't know if he did, yeah. I think in a situation like that, everybody was just kind of like,

yeah, we see where he's coming from with this one. Right. Like, it really is a thing. Yeah, it really is a thing where he got hit in the head. And then he was like really mad about it. And everybody's like, well, we're going to find him after Zadano Chara caves his face in. Like, well, that's fine. Like, you're going to have a good thing.

So they're like, what do you think, Coley? Oh, we'll let this one go. The boy's been through enough. Yeah, no kidding. That's it. That's it. You got hit in the head by Zadano Chiro and then punched in the back of the head three or four times while Jack Edwards yelled about how you were being destroyed.

I think, yeah, you get one free Twitter gif. Dig a grave for him and get a teal casket because Evander Cade has been ended. If you're a fan of the Philadelphia, you fly. the Chicago Blackhawks, the Calgary Flames, the Phoenix Coyotes, the Edmonton Oilers, the San Jose Sharks, Chicago Wolves, Clotin H.C. Or the Belfast Giants of the Elite Ice Hockey League, you are going to know our next guest. Jim Vandumir, well-known journeyman in the NHL, a defenseman, a tall drink of water or whatever. Not really that's all.

I'm actually taller than him. He is now playing hockey in the UK. It has been for the last several years. He's become kind of a cult icon. there is a guy who drops the glows now and again. And he's got kind of an interesting story about his path there. He tells us some tales about his time of the NHL. And also, we discuss what it's like playing in Northern Ireland during the time of Brexit. And is it like here where you can't go anywhere without someone saying, Trump, can you get a coffee and not hear something about Brexit?

So it's a good chat with him. I think you'll dig this one. It's kind of a different interview than what we normally do. And here's Jim. All right, Jim Van der Meer is a defenseman for the Belfast Giants of the elite ice hockey league. It's, you know, it's funny. Like, when I first started writing about this league, I totally thought it was the English ice hockey league, just because that's how it should seem like it should be. But I enjoy the hubris of it being elite.

That's pretty good. No, for sure. I actually played here for two months before I thought it was the English ice hockey league. I thought it was as well. So, um, I don't feel so bad then. A little bit. Yeah, when I came back, I came here for like two months the first time I got here,

and that's honestly what I thought was called cute. That's awesome. All right, so for those that don't know, so Jim played in the NHL here and there on and off from 2002 all the way through 2012, and then you were in the HL, 2012, 13. Then you went to Switzerland, and then you went to the Belfast Giants from 2015 to now. What bought you from the Swiss League to Belfast?

It was kind of weird. I actually had an extra year left on my deal in floating in the Swiss League and got bought out. But there it's kind of like a negotiation process, and it took forever to get that kind of sorted out. And by the time that was done, most European leagues had all their imports signed, and so I was just kind of waiting for whether somebody to get hurt

or played bad enough that they fired them. So, and that just, nothing really came along that I really liked. And then it was about February, so I hadn't played it almost a year. I was, you know, skating back in Vancouver, but nothing real serious. And then the guy played against in Switzerland.

And a guy, my mom, wife used to babysit and uh we're calling me saying they needed uh a d man uh in belfast so i made a couple calls with guys i knew that it played uh for belfast before and they all said good things so um they're going to go check it out for a couple months and go from there all right so hold on pause for a second so your wife babysits a kid who grows up to be a hockey player and then the hockey player is like We need a defenseman. Dude, my ex-babisteader's husband is a totally great defenseman. Is that basically how it plays out?

Yeah, that's kind of how it worked out. Even though I had known him for a bit, but that's kind of how it went. But Derek Walger was the coach at the time. I played against him in Switzerland and played with him at Spinger Cup. So I had known him just the year prior. Yeah, it was a pretty quick conversation. Pretty great. I didn't have any real good options at the time, so I figured out to check it out.

And they do a really good schooling program here, so I figured I'd go back to school and get a business degree. Oh, cool. What did you know about Belfast before going there? Did you know anything about it? I honestly didn't know a whole lot. I knew a couple guys that had played there, and they said they really enjoy their time. I honestly didn't know a lot about the history of the city or the troubles or anything like that. And, you know, coming here is kind of open my eyes to kind of what this area has been,

kind of what they've gone through the last, you know, 30, 40 years. Yeah, right, Jesus. You've got a lot of catching up to do when you're in Belfast as far as, like, what the history has been like there, right? Yeah, for sure. Tell me what the hockey culture is there. In my time covering the Belfast Giants and the Sheffield Steelers and all those elite hockey league teams, it kind of reminded me of some of the small market teams back in the States.

You have this really passionate following, maybe not the biggest, but the people that are into it are really into it. Would that be the right way to characterize it? I think that that's very, very accurate. We have a great set of fans here in Belfast. Like I said, they're really, really passionate. You know, they've been following the team. The team's been here for 20 years now, so it's not like they're totally new to hockey.

Obviously, lots of people are new to hockey every day, but, you know, the core following here is very passionate and they're nuts about it. What's it like living there? Like you're from Canada, I believe, right? I agree, right? accurately think. What is,

what's, what's, what's, what's, was there a big adjustment to being in Belfast or is it just sort of just like, kind of comparable to being a North American city in some ways? Yeah,

it's pretty comparable. There's some things you think that you were a little bit of a time work back in time. But, uh, I think for the most part, it's exactly the same other than driving on the other side of the road. Um, you know,

DVDs at the check out stands everywhere, whereas back home, everything's pretty much digital now, but no, it's pretty good here. Is there still like a Blockbuster video there? Or no? I think there's no more Blockbuster, but there's a ATM, I think, is still kicking over here. Oh, shit. Wow, there you go.

Yeah. What's the food like? Did you have to adjust to food life in Northern Ireland or no? No, it's pretty good here. You know, they got some really good restaurants here. I actually like to do a lot of cooking at home, so that really doesn't change much. You know, Belfast is kind of on the rise, so there's lots of new restaurants popping up. No, it's been pretty good.

Like, you think the diet and what you hear of the Irish diet is, you know, meat and potatoes and stews and pies and stuff like that. But, you know, they got everything here. It's pretty good. Now, the Brexit thing is interesting to me because I always felt like as an American, you know, everywhere you go, someone's talking about Trump to the point where you're just like, I wish I could go somewhere without somebody talking about Trump. Is Brexit like that? Everywhere you go in Belfast is someone talking about Brexit? Yeah, it's absolutely crazy. I don't know.

It's obviously a huge deal. It's an absolutely huge deal, especially for the country, Northern Ireland, because of the whole border issue. and stuff like that. So it's definitely news every day and kind of paying attention to what's going on. Is that going to, is that going to mess with a whole hell of a lot about Trump too. So you can't escape that either. I'm sure. Do you, do you, is that, is that going to affect you at all, what the UK decides to do at all?

Or no, as far as like either your livelihood or your citizenship or anything like that? It's hard to tell exactly how that's going to work out. But I think most guys that are imports, you know, you've got to get a visa anyway, so it shouldn't change too much. I think the biggest thing that everybody, at least here, is worried about as far as players is if a hard border was to come up, then there's obviously there could be some potential safety issues with the new IRA, making some things and stuff like that.

But right now, it's just kind of wait and see what's going to happen. So from everything that we hear, there's not going to be no hard border. So we should be good for now. Cool, cool. Your league is a fight in league. It's always been sort of a – there's been some physicality. It's kind of a throwback old school league at times. And I know that's one of the reasons that you're an endearing player for them there

and have gained some cult icon status with the way you play. What's it like being a big name on a team like Belfast? Do you recognize around town? Do you love the fact that you've got a group of fans that clearly dig the way that you play? Yeah, I think, you know, Ulster Rugby is the big thing in town, so we can slink around town without too many people noticing. But obviously, the diehard fans and everybody, they know whoever guy is in town. But, no, it's good.

It's a lot of fun. It's a good city. And I think the league is changing, like the rest of the cost. hockey is. It's getting more skilled and there's less and less scraps every year. So depending on what your cup of tea is, if you like that or don't like that, that's kind of just the way I think hockey in general is going in that direction. Did you, would you say that you fought your way into the league when you started? Because I remember back, like, looking through your stats in Red Deer, I mean, you were like a

200 penalty minute guy. And I know back at that point, you could, you know, maybe jump up a few levels if you were willing to fight. Do you feel like you were one of those guys that benefited from fighting being in vogue back then, you know, two decades ago? Well, for sure. I think the way the skill of the game is now, if it was like that, when I was playing, I wouldn't have a sniff. I think my last couple years of junior, I worked on my skill and I got some power play time and stuff like that and developed into a decent player. But it was old school rules before the lockout. there in a one, two, and three and four.

So that was still a huge part of it. There was clutching and grabbing and hook and hold them and cross-checking in front. So I think a lot of fights just kind of happened that way. But I was always that type of player to take care of the guys and this guys were crossing a line. I was always right there to back the boys up. Yeah. Do you miss that? I mean, like, I'm 40-something. And I grew up watching the Patrick Division and, you know, watching the devils and Flyers and the Rangers all beat the shit out of each other in the 1980s. And like, I understand where the game is now and I understand it's a different game and I understand why it's a different game. But there's always going to be a part of me that's like the pinnacle of my hockey fandom was watching a product where there were fights and there was more brutality and physicality than what we have today. And there's always going to be a part of me that that will be in a nostalgic for that. Are you kind of the same way, or do you think that the game has evolved to

a better place? Yeah, I think I'm right on board with you there. I think the skill level that's in the game right now is amazing, and it's great, and I love seeing that. The part that I don't is, you know, if guys make a big head or do a dirty player or something like that, and the guy goes to step up, and then he's, you know, immediately penalized and suspended and all that, which, you know, obviously, bad hits, deserve suspension, but, you know, if you're crossing a line, you've got to step up to the plate.

So, you know, I definitely miss that part of the game. Obviously, like you said, it helped me make a really good living. You know, I definitely don't miss getting punched in the head like I did back then. But, you know, I'm definitely miss some of that. part of the game for sure. All right, let's take a little trip down memory lane here. You had an incredibly eclectic group of teams that you played for in the National Hockey League.

You were with the Flyers. Ronick's there. Primo's there. Clare is there. Brashear is there. Hitchcock's your coach. What was it like being with that crew? You got any stories from your days playing in the orange and black with Jeremy

Ronick? That was unbelievable. I think I'd watched one, one in a game. Ch-L game live before I actually played a preseason game for them. So, like you said, that list of guys that you listed off, Roneck, Rackie, Primo, Kimi-Ot, and Eric Desjardin. Oh, yeah? Yeah, those guys were unbelievable.

They were such great human beings and welcoming guys. They just, you know, made it seamless and really easy to come into that room. So, you know, I didn't know what to expect. and, you know, they were great. What was Hitch like back then? Oh, he was great. You know, he's the type of coach that I really liked. Like, you actually yelled a lot and stuff,

but I think he yelled guys accountable, and, you know, I really liked the system that he had in place. And, you know, I guess I've known it for a long time and I've nothing but respect for him. But he was great. You were in Philly for a couple years, and then you had a, like, a stint again later on. is that just the kind of team where as soon as you put on that jersey and you're the kind of

player that you were that you feel like you're at home? It was. Like that's, you know, that's the team. They always like to have a couple guys like that on the team. Yeah. At that point in time, you know, I think we had, in the minors, we had two full lines of guys that every guy was willing to go to bat for each other. and it was a lot of fun.

I had to play with my oldest brother with the phantoms there, and it was just an awesome time. You were at the Blackhawks for a few years before and after the lockout, and you were there with baby Jonathan Taves and baby Patrick Kane. When you're there and you see these guys

and you see, I think maybe Sharper's there, two or a couple of those guys, did you ever think, oh, yeah, fuck, these guys are going to win three cups. Was there a notion that they were on that track at that point when you were there, or not yet? Well, I don't know what their numbers were exactly their first year, but like you said, baby, baby came, they were kids, you know, and they look like it. But, you know, I think even at that age, their feel level was unreal, and you could see that they were something special. but, you know, it's obviously to see what they've done in their careers

the way it's gone. They've done a great job. I'm just kind of pissed off. I missed out on that first cup. I ended up getting traded the year before, but, you know, that's the way it goes. And they obviously, they got to beat us out. I think I can't remember exactly the year. They all kind of blend together, but I think I might have Calgary.

Yeah. Yeah. beat us out but um no it's awesome like uh nunk and keith and seabrook too as they're played both my deep partners for for a while they're so oh yeah it's it's it's all right there in front of you yeah you you must be looking around saying like ah fuck just don't keep me here for just two more years because they're going to win something i'll be the i'll be the water boy for for the next year to be in a couple of them hey but when you went to calgary we you went to Calgary, you were there with

Kenan, right? Yeah. What was that like? He was awesome. He was, like, he was, he was my type of coach, and he was quite calm down by that point, you know,

from the stories that you hear, but no, he was great. I didn't play a little bit of forward there. The team was playing, like, crap. He would toss me up on forward and get me to go stir the things up a bit, so was definitely interesting, had some fun there too, so it was good.

That's awesome. And the other one I wanted to ask you about, because you were maybe one of the only guys that could say that they were there in Chicago when the Tannen Caves teams, the Canaan Taves teams were kind of coming together. And you were also at Edmonton when Hall and Eberley and those guys were there.

And I got to imagine that if you're on that team when you're looking at that talent, you're thinking of yourself, okay, this is probably like Chicago. Like, these guys are on track to do something special, and that group just couldn't do it. Yeah, it's one of those things. Sport is really strange like that. Like, you look at the guys they draft,

the guys they bring in, and even when Pitt was doing the same thing with all the guys they were doing, it looks like they're doing all the right things. And, you know, if I had the answers, I'd have a better job than I have right now. for whatever reason it hasn't worked out in Emmington yet, but I grew up in Northern fans,

so I'm hoping they can get it together and get back to their glory days. Yeah. You did the sharks, did the wolves, and you went over to Switzerland. When you were in the Swiss League, were you angling to try to come back to the NHL at that point, or did you think that, okay, this is the next phase, I'm going to be an international guy now?

Yeah, I think, you know, I signed with Vancouver right after the lockout and it was a half year and I thought I would get at least a handful of games up, but that didn't work out. And just talking to all the teams and kind of where they had me pegged in their lineups and stuff like that, that would have been a more veteran player in the American League. and I could kind of see where that was going if I was going to end up scrapping a whole hell of a lot more I'm not sure but I think at that point I had got away lucky by not getting my head knocked off for fighting as much as I did so I figured

we'll play a skill game we'll for a while and see how that goes so it's been great and that was kind of the plan all along Once the NHL kind of run its course, I was going to travel a bit. Not that I didn't enjoy it. I definitely did, but I try to really get back to enjoying the game and turn around a bit.

Yeah, all right. A couple more real quick. Hockey in the UK, where are we at right now? I mean, I feel like globally the NHL has sort of been on the rise, Is the NHL as a product, something that in the UK is on the uptick, or is it still sort of very much a niche sport for the people that follow it? I think it's kind of a niche thing. I think, you know, with soccer and why should say football over here,

but rugby and soccer and sports like that are so big over here. I think it's tough. I think people that are into hockey and stuff, they love it, and they'll stay up late and watch all the NHL games and stuff like that. But, yeah, I think it's got a ways to go still. You know, they've got to grow it from, you know, grassroots level here. And I think it's not quite there yet. But hopefully, you know, it keeps growing and growing.

And we have, you know, make this league even better than what it is here. do you think that if the NHL went there more and put more games in London or you know or whatever that it would help bolster that or does it need to be a grassroots thing versus having the NHL come in and you know parachute in for a weekend well I think it would it would definitely help for people to get a little bit up close and personal on it because it's it's such a different game when you watch it live than when you watch it on TV like I was always always a guy you know kind of even when I was playing it was it was hard for me to watch it on TV because it's kind of you're up top and it seems to slow it down quite a bit

and you're like, well, I can do that. I can make that play. I should do that. And then you're, you're throwing in the mix and you're doing it. You're like, holy shit, this is coming out of fast. It's quite a bit different game. You know, I level down the ice and it is watching it from up top. Yeah, for sure. For people to watch it, if they get a chance to watch it live, it's a totally different experience than watching on TV or on your computer. And I guess finally, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about fans in the UK. I mean, these are people that have been trained in the soccer stadiums of Europe. I got to imagine that's a pretty amazing experience to play in front of what I would term hooligans.

Yeah, it's pretty good. It's different. It's not quite like this. soccer experience, like you would think? Like a lot of other European leagues, you see some of the clips of the fans and they're standing, chant, and the whole game and stuff like that. I think for this league, I think it's, they have like a section where they go nuts like that, and then the rest is kind of the same as what you'd see back home, I guess.

Like still really good, really energetic and stuff like that, but not like the hooligans they had in Switzerland where they had, you know, a whole. side or a whole end zone where they're just going out with crazy for the whole game. So it's been a pretty cool experience to see how different hockey fans in different countries, how they take the game in. Yeah, yeah. We're all trying to be Latvia at the end of the day. We're all just trying to get there.

We can't do it. They're drunk at 11 in the morning. Can't get there quite yet. All right, Jim, man. You're the man. Thank you so much for your time. really appreciate it. All right.

Thanks to Jim Van Damir, the Belfast Giants of the elite ice hockey league, not English ice hockey league. It's common misconception, as you said. The athletic,

with whom Sean draws a check, had a player's poll in which all of the roughly 200 beatwriters that the athletic has asked roughly 200 players, a number of questions for their players poll. It's like what the NHLPA does every. every few years and the athletic did it this time. Sidney Cros, you best overall player.

Okay, great. Game 7 of the Stanley Cup final, who do you want starting a goal? Carrie Price, that's a dumb answer. Isn't it a dumb answer? Like, what, what? But who would you want? That's, there really isn't an obvious. Vasilevsky?

Yeah, maybe. But I mean, I don't know. He seems like he'd reasonably had some success in the Stanley Cup. Brayden. Brayden Holpey got like 6% of the vote. He was the fifth guy on the list. insane. That's crazy.

I know he had a bad year last year in the regular season, but he's been one of the best goalies in the league for, what, six, seven years now? No. And I don't feel like any, speaking of underrated guys, like I don't feel like Brayden Holpey has ever gotten the credit he really deserved. No, and the fact that Braden Holpey wasn't the capital starter heading into the playoffs last year, the year they won the Stanley Cup, like the fact that, like, Barry Trots is universally the best coach in the league right now, And he looked at that team and was like, yeah, I don't, I don't think Braden Holpey is our guy.

But that's because it was, it just shows you how much random. That was a dumb shit moved by Trots. Like that was, he should have. Right. Of course it was. But that's the thing. I mean, even like the, even the guys who are the best or close to it are half the time, don't know what they're doing. So the only reason, I swear to God, the only reason price gets number one on these lists is because of the Olympics.

And it's like, yeah, if nothing else we know that if given the greatest team ever a in front of him. Carrie Price can totally win a game seven. Most underrated player in the NHL, Alexander Park. We should stop asking these players this question because they don't, first of all, they can't conceive what's underrated because they're not the media. And then two, it's always, again, we always talk about this. It's one guy for like five years.

And after you get to year three, he's not underrated anymore. And Alexander Parkoff is the new Louis Erickson. Now, the guy who's actually on this list that I think I agree with is underrated is year or I know, to be quite honest with you. He came in fifth. I was just going to say the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was, he hit 60 points in his 60 second game of the season last night. He's the like fourth defenseman ever over the age of 35

to score 60 points. And this is obviously you know, it used to be pretty easy to score 60 points in the season. So like the fact that he's doing it now when it's not so easy is very impressive. He should have won Norris already. He arguably, should have two, and he should win it this year. He's not going to win it this year.

He's going to win it this year. I disagree. I think Brent Burns is going to win it this year, and I think that Juriano is going to be a finalist, and that's going to be his reward. That sucks. I think this is going to be the same sort of thing that, like, when Drew Doughty was due, except this guy actually is due, and he's not like 27. Yeah, he's having an amazing season, too.

Like that year Doughty was He was good But I You could make an argument He wasn't one of the top five The most overrated player in the NHL Speaking of defenseman

PK Suban at 23% Patrick Lineh 9% Aaron Eckblad 6% Deonf enough 4% Deonf enough apparently still on these lists And Eric Carlson 4%.

The PK Suban thing is totally Attitudinal right The fact that he's super famous And stuff is why he's overrated Well that and I don't think he's having a particularly great for him year. Like he's having a good year. He's a good defenseman,

but he's not one of the top 10 defensemen in the league this year probably. But yeah, you're right. This is like the, he gets too much attention. Yeah, he has a TV show. Yeah, and he's, well, he's on the cover of the video game and,

and all of that. So, yeah, I think that has as much to do with it as anything. And yeah, it's kind of, I don't know. I don't know if I should read anything into the fact that four of the five are defensemen,

but, uh, I don't know. I will say. I do love that Eklad pulls not bad. Yeah. That Xxol is not bad at all. I don't disagree with that either.

The Suban thing I think is interesting because I recall last year, like, not only did he have the stats, but then it was almost like he was underrated because the analytics community is like, no, no, no, you don't understand. He's actually like even better than the glamour stats are saying in making his case with the Norris trophy. So it's funny that like the players see him as overrated. And then the computer boys are all like, no, no, no, no. He's actually even better than you think. It's a weird dichotomy. Which coach, aside from your own, would you want to play for? John Cooper and Gerard Gallant tied at 23%.

Barry Trots only got 11. And that's not a surprise to me because the players know about Barry Trots. Trots is great and he's getting results in the whole thing. But like every capital that was on that team has told their buddies like, oh, fucking Barry. You don't not play for Barry yet. Shet many tears. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny that that should happen. Which coach, aside from your own, would you not want to play for?

John Tortorella, 30%, Ken Hitchcock 27, Mike Babcock, 15, Randy Carlyle 11, Giebushet 3. I really thought the Babcock one would be higher, to be honest with you. Yeah, well, I think Torterella just runs away. But what's interesting is Torterella also got votes in the top five for coach to play for, although it was only like 6%, but so he is apparently dividing dividing the room, whereas, yeah, I mean, Ken Hitchcock, I don't think we're going to have to worry about much longer. He, like, he, like, watching that Leafs-Oilers game, like, I thought that might be the game where, like, just Hitchcock just left halfway through the computer.

Like, especially, like, did you can see the, like, the weird thing with him and McDavid, like, in the lead up to that game, how he was, like, really banging the drum that McDavid was just going to, like, show up and just completely. annihilate like he was going to be like Gretzky in the 80s and and then Nick David just has one of his worst games of the year and doesn't do anything. Well, you know, I think it didn't help that that was the Edmonton media being like, you remember Wayne Gretzky used to come in here? But then he like, he, like they didn't say the words McDade like they were,

it was more like, hey, you know, when you were, you know, grown up, do you remember when Gretzky used to come into Toronto and he was like, what, like McDavid? It's what we call a legal profession leading the witness, though. Perhaps, yeah, maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit. Mr. Trump never directed me to lie. He simply said, wouldn't, isn't this the truth? And then that's the same thing.

Sorry, I was watching the Michael Cohen thing the entire question. That went, right. Yeah, let's pause on the Oilers for a second. Ryan, I always love when you're on Twitter because you speak such truth. Did Mike, was it Mike Kelly who was standing for Leon Drysidal saying? It was Mike what the avalanche do well leads to a 104 PDO, in my opinion, Kelly, saying that, you know, after the one really great goal Leon Drysidal scored last night, which I believe was on the power play, but I might be wrong about that,

he has proven definitively that he is a number one, He's a great center on his own without... That he couldn't anchor his own line, yeah. Yeah. Which, like, I think he's awesome. I love Lianry Cytle. And, of course, all day I've had Oilers fans getting mad at me for saying this. But, you know, Connor McDavid has a primary assist on 24 of Dry Cytle's 39 goals.

He's gotten into the scoring on 47 of his 77 points. and, you know, I think he has, like, most of his goals are scored at five on four when he plays with McDavid, and so he, therefore, doesn't score without him. That having been said, obviously, like, the Oilers are terrible, and they don't have any wings that they can put with Drysaitle or McDavid, quite frankly, which is why Drysidle plays on that line. But the point is, he hasn't proven that he can anchor his own line. And, like, the thing Mike Kelly said was, like, it was a narrative that exists somehow. And I can't understand it.

It's like, it's because he plays, like, the vast majority of his minutes with Connor McDavid and does the vast majority of his scoring with him. That's why the narrative exists. But didn't, wasn't the narrative at one point, like, by, I mean, it might have been even by our friends in the Ebbington media that, like, hey, it's okay if he can't anchor his own line. He's going to be the curry to McDavid's Gretzky and that's worth the money anyway. Like, wasn't that part of the story, too?

it's at one point. Yeah, no, even if he, you know, doesn't ever become an elite number two borderline number one center, well, geez, you know, he's still going to put up 100 points a year with McDavid. And that's true. Like, he's on pace for 50 and 100. That you can't do better than that, really, in the NHL. But, yeah, I mean, it's two different arguments. Is Leon Dreisdital great? Yes.

is he able to score without McDavid? No. I don't know what we're talking about. Sean, Sean, are you fascinated by how done the Oilers are right now? I am, and I think I'm waiting for them to win like two games in a row so I can once again talk myself into them coming back into the playoff race because I've been doing that consistently for four years now.

There's, I mean, they're, they got a shot at finishing. second last in the league. That would be pretty amazing. That would legitimately be, like I feel like even heading into this year where there wasn't much confidence in Turelli and there wasn't much confidence in, you know, we knew Tom McClellan was on thin ice.

And like I feel like if you'd paint it the absolute worst case scenario, we're maybe even beyond that at this point. Yeah. Like would anyone have been able to convince you that they were going to like not hit 75 points or something like I mean that that's

it's their last their last I saw this on Twitter this morning their last 32 games they're on on pace for like 55 points if that was the full time it's great like and you know I think like do we do we agree that like Hitchcock is not going to stick around of course he's he's going to

bolt so they're going to be on to coach coach number three and GM number three in in a calendar year that he's not a that he's not a miracle worker like he's portrayed to be like this is now two stops where he's done fucking nothing Like the Dallas thing was a disaster I would say it's a

Two stops where Like that Dallas team isn't any good either Like well you know He can only do so much They were pretty good last year And the goal ending thing But his whole thing was he goes He's the fixer

He's like Winston Wolf Like he goes in and cleans the blood out of the car Like that's the whole point of Ken Hitchcock's existence At this point in his career And he had no discernible effect on either of those teams Well I mean he had a good effect on Dallas's underlying numbers But he didn't get him in a playoffs Right but like is that his fault

Like he made them better the team just stinks. That Dallas roster is bad, and it was last year. And it's the same thing with this Oilers roster. Like, yeah, Leon Dreis, like, they don't have three top six wings on that team. They don't have two. So, you know, what's any coach supposed to do with that? Well, that's it.

Like, I mean, you know, they've gone through two pretty good coaches this year. Like, I think Tom McClellan's a good coach. I think Ken Hitchcock is. you know, has been a good coach. He's obviously towards the end of his career, but, you know, he didn't forget everything, uh, on his,

on, on the plane on the way to Edmonton. So, uh, man, I don't this, there, there's,

there's a lot of work to be done here and good, good luck to them because I, yeah, this is, it was just funny because I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't watching that game like as it was happening, but I was following it on Twitter,

obviously. And, you know, Edmonton goes up one nothing pretty early. in the game and everybody's like, this is it. Like, they're, they're going to, they're going to, you know, use this as a

jumping off point. And half an hour later, everybody in, you know, that I follow in Edmonton was like, season's over. This is it. We're done. Like, it was incredible. They just came out of the, out of the first intermission, got destroyed, and

everybody in my feet, who's an Edmonton person was like, I guess we'll just, you know, start planning for the draft lottery now. Yeah. That's like the most demoralizing type of game is... If they end up with either Jack Hughes or Capo-Caco, I will eat cat shit. Mostly because I'll be eating cat shit out of like depression,

if that ends up happening. Look who's trying to get a ready of job. Yeah, no kidding. Right, exactly. We were you going to say, shot? I was just because, like, I mean, that's the most demoralizing type of loss is when you get your butt kicked by a team that is clearly not even playing well that night. Like the Leafs were bad for much of that game.

18 to 6 in the first period or something. Yeah. And then the Leafs. And in a way, in a weird sort of way, that's also a bad type of game for the Leafs because they've had a few of those where they just sleepwalk through. And then for 10 minutes, they're like, fine, we'll try. And then they, you know, they light it up against a team like Edmonton or Buffalo or Montreal or whoever.

And that's, you know, not going to create good habits for when they have to play Tampa or somebody like that and they can't get away with it. But yeah, that's, that was rough. Like, that was, it was like the Leafs just rolled out of bed and we're like, fine. We'll give you 10 minutes where we're actually going to play hockey. And next thing, you know, it's 6 to 1. Yeah. One last player poll thing that's worth mentioning is which team has the worst fans? The Panthers won it. The coyotes are second. The hurricanes were third. The Islanders were fifth. So you have four teams right there that don't necessarily draw all that well. And then speaking get at number four is the Philadelphia Flyers.

See, it really seems like a lot of people interpreted that question two ways, right? Right. That's pretty great, though. Yeah, that ruled. I do enjoy that. Before we get to Islanders-Tevera stuff, I wanted to mention, we don't talk nearly enough baseball on this show because it's a hockey podcast, but we do talk about weird rules a lot, and I wanted to mention two things that my friend Jeff Passon talked about this week,

that baseball is considering, which might be old news to everybody who follows. was baseball, but I'm a Mets fan, so it's new to me. They were talking about a three-batter-minimum rule for pitchers, which would increase the pace and speed of a game, and would end the carousel of relief pitchers that's become so commonplace late in games. Under the proposal, the league would be able to implement a rule where if a relief pitcher comes in, he has to face at least three hitters. What's a say you?

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that talks about baseball is you get into the seventh inning and you know you're going to see four more pitchers per team, right? Like, you go lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, lefty, loogies and roogies and all that. Like, you know, like, those lugies. Yeah, you can't, like, that sucks. That is definitely a bummer when you go to the ballpark or, like, I don't watch baseball on TV anymore, but. But isn't it, isn't it part of the strategy, though? Like, isn't the whole, the chess match of, you know, if they're, the double switch. That's why the National League's so great and you don't like the designated hitter. Shut up. You know who thinks that's St. Louis Cardinals fans? Those are the only people who believe that.

I am a Died in the World National League fan and I don't like the designated hitter. What's wrong with that? You don't have to like it, but you don't also have to be like, and you know what's great is when the last, like, the way people complain about, oh, the last three minutes of a basketball game takes four. 45 minutes. The last two winnings of a baseball game takes four and a half hours. But nobody in basketball is like, yeah, we actually love when they call four timeouts in eight seconds or whatever.

You know what? Some of us like baseball to be chess and people like you, idiots, you treat it like you're just jerking off. There's a poetry and an artistry to baseball, sir. It's like that, my thing with baseball is like that Earl Weaver thing where he's like, you get some big fat guy up there.

knock the ball out of the park and you can't make a goddamn mistakes. Like, that's what baseball is to me. He was right. Here's the thing that I find fascinating about this, though, is that, and if people are listening to this, given that it's a hockey podcast, there might be people who aren't baseball fans and don't follow it, like what's happening here is, Greg, you mentioned the strategy, and that's basically what it is, is the strategy of the game has evolved in a couple of ways, one being with the relief pitchers.

They have figured out that, you know what, the best way to use your bowpen is you just to bring these big guys in and just have them go throw 100% for one inning or less. And it results in that there's a lot more strikeouts, a lot fewer balls put in play, which from an entertainment perspective is not as entertaining. And then the other thing that is happening that they're trying to deal with is this shift, where they've kind of realized that the positioning of the players, if you do these extreme shifts, can make it a lot tougher for the hitters. which means less scoring, less offense.

Putting your entire infield on one side and that kind of thing. Exactly. Like these radical shifts, like taking a strategy that had always been there in baseball of moving everybody a few steps over and like just radically doing it. Turns out it works. Turns out it's a better strategy. But what's fascinating to me as a hockey fan is watching baseball. Like this has really been over the last few years that they've realized, wait a second, the strategy that makes the most sense is, is, far as winning baseball games leads to a less entertaining product. And that should sound familiar

to hockey fans, because it's a lot like what happened in the mid-90s with the trap and the clutch and grab and eventually shot blocking and all of it and the butterfly and all this other stuff, which were very smart strategies that made your team better, but made the product less interesting. And we all know what the NHL did for 20 years, which was nothing. They sat around and said, gosh, it would be nice if the game was more fun. And they, And they made minor little tweaks and small changes that had no impact whatsoever. And partly because there was this appeal to tradition. You have to honor and respect the tradition of the game.

And here you've got baseball, the only sport that has even more tradition and is even more in love with its own history than hockey. And it's taken only a couple of years. That's quite a claim. Yeah, exactly. And yet, it's taken only a couple years. and they're already like, yeah, you know what, we're not doing this. We have to make some changes. Even if it means going against history, we have to change because we're an entertainment

product and watching our product get more boring and sitting around for 20 years and not doing anything about it would be ridiculous and an abdication of leadership. And of course, NHL fans are sitting there going, yeah, we know exactly what that feels like. Yeah, and to further your point, like the other rule change they're considering is basically the shootout. They're talking about trying to do a thing where in extra innings, you start with a runner on second base. Is that for actual regular season, or is that just something they want to do for spring training in the All-Star game because they want this game? They were testing. Yeah.

Like, they would test it in. And so, like, the thing with that for me is, like, if we're going to make it like the shootout, make it like the shootout, the vast majority of games that go to extra innings and in the 10th inning. So, like, this is addressing a problem. that doesn't necessarily really exist. Right. You know, like, if you're worried about it after you get past the 10th inning, sure, like, have a guy start on second in the 11th inning. Right.

But you're not, like, the only thing you're really worried about, I guess, is one of those games that goes like 16 innings. Right. And then that screws up your entire, I mean, your bullpen and you can stop ends up the idea of it being like, you implement it in like the 13th inning or something like that, But I agree with you. And I think the other problem is that, like, you know, the shootout is what it is in hockey. But in baseball, like, if you do this, if you put a guy on second base, like, doesn't that just basically mean the first guy up's going to punt?

And then the next guy is going to try to hit a fly ball. Like, it would seem to narrow the possibilities of how a game might end dramatically if you put a guy on second base. Yeah, I think if they end up doing that later, like if it becomes your way to not have games go 18 innings and, you know, end at three in the morning with 400 fans still sitting in the stands. Like, I can get why you would not necessarily want to have those happen, but I'd be surprised if they started doing it right in the 10th inning because that, yeah, you're right. Most of the vast majority of games don't need that. But again, you know, the fact that they're doing this and there are certainly a lot of baseball

fans who are, you know, complaining or don't like the ideas and appealing to tradition. But the idea that the entire league has to just sit and make no changes at all. of any significance because of tradition and watch the entertainment value of their product plummet is ridiculous to baseball fans and to baseball leadership as well it should be, but it wasn't ridiculous to hockey. Right. Speaking of 400 fans in the stands, John Tavares came back to Nassau Coliseum this week to play the Islanders.

Yes. Let's first talk about this video in which Islanders fans, lament the fact that Tavares left. For nine years, you were part of the New York Islanders, and many of those years you were the captain. You were seen as the face of the franchise. The Savior. You're the chosen one. We looked up to you.

Kids looked up to you. You were not just only the Islanders captain. You were the fans captain, too. We thought you were a class act, but looks like it was just all an act. Do you remember saying that you loves Long Island? I've always stayed at home, which I love it here. Do you remember

saying how great players stay with their team their whole careers and how you wanted to do the same this is obviously where I hope to be and I've always stated that you went from being the captain the savior the chosen one to a lying traitor snake pajama boy okay now this video was ridiculous we're all like we don't want and and stupid uh it is It is a, it was squirmy and awkward and very much like I once dated a pretty girl and now she, it doesn't talk to me anymore kind of thing. They actually do the Star Wars dialogue at one point about how you were supposed to be the chosen one. Like, I saw this, this thing came into my Twitter feed like 30 times before I actually watched it,

because I don't like watching like cringy stuff. And I was finally like, all right, I got to watch because it can't possibly be that bad. And it was so much worse. And I thought, like, it could not convey how awful it was. Yeah, and it was like, it reminded me of like a video someone would shoot if like a factory left their town. You know, we got nothing left. You were the only reason that there is a town. It was very depressing.

It was a very depressing video in a lot of ways. When the first clip came, because there was like a 40 second clip and then it was a longer version, like when that came out, like, I think a lot of people had the same thought, which was that there had to be a punch line here. or that this was going to be revealed to be... Right, like it was a war at stuff, right? Yeah, or like some viral marketing thing, and we're all going to get like... But it wasn't. And it was like, like, so we should be clear. It was apparently some local news and like, like, very, very local news.

Yeah. Then that decided to put this together and I guess thought it was good. And, you know, my only thing is I, the video is awful. It's like five Islander fans. And, you know, again, Again, as the member of a fan base who just had somebody eat cat crap, just, you know, you can't judge a fan base by the worst or dumbest or most pathetic of them because nobody is going to hold up really well with that.

And I'm interested to see what they're like this is, you know, by the time some people hear this, the Islanders game will have happened tonight and, you know, we'll know what the reaction was. And I want to kind of, I'm hedging my bets a little bit because there's a part of me that's worried that like someone's going to throw like a urine bomb onto the ice and, you know, and it's going to be a total debacle. But I, you know, I've, I've said this, I've written it. I think Islander fans are allowed to be pissed off at how things went down. Even if it's, even if they're wrong, I think they're allowed to be wrong. It's kind of like when somebody breaks up with you, they have a right to break up with you. But that doesn't mean you can't go a little

bit crazy about it and react to it poorly and listen to crappy music and make terrible videos in the parking lot of your local news station. So, you know, I'm, I've kind of got Islander fans backs on this a little bit, even though I don't think John DeVarres did anything wrong, but he doesn't have to do something wrong for them to be pissed off at him. That's part of the deal we make when we become fans. The thing that blew my mind about this is, In looking at the replies to whoever posted the video initially, I didn't realize this because they all call him Johnny pajamas now. Yes.

There's no pajamas visible in that photo. Dude, I wrote that last week. I didn't. I never realized that. Islander fans are mad at me. They call it because they have been calling him pajama boy. And I said that, you know, it's bedsheet boy. Like, come on, man.

You got to, like, if you're going to be traumatized by something, you've got to get the details. And I got a lot of Islander fans mad at me because partly because apparently in his players' tribune piece, and we all know how legitimate and personal those are, he makes reference to himself as Pajama Boy, but he's doing it in response to Islander fans already calling him that. In jest. Yeah, right. Yeah. He's sort of like, yeah, you're all calling me Pajama Boy, but it's, yeah, but that for me was like finding out that you don't actually see anybody get murdered in psycho. and it's all the implication in the end of the screen. It's their Berenstein Bears situation of like, no, he's in the pajamas, I swear. The Nelson Mandela effect, but. Yeah, we're doing the show.

We're doing the show on Thursday. The game is tonight, obviously, so we expect it to be a little chaotic on the island and stuff. That'll be fun. I agree with, Sean. Like, get your yias out, give them hell. Put Tavares stickers in the urinals. like do whatever you need to do and then we just all move on.

But you deserve to get your moment of angst because he did you know, kind of play along with the idea that he was going to be an elder through the trade deadline all the way through to July. And I feel like enough was said on his part to make you feel like he was coming back

that you can be pissed off about it. It's not simply just an, oh, I don't know, I'm on the fence. I never felt like he was, there was a chance he was going to stick around there. Like anybody who thought that, that was kind of diluting themselves, I felt like. But he thought that. Brian, he thought that.

What? He thought that. He said it. He said it. He literally said that I, at the time of the trade deadline, there was nothing, there was no thought in my mind that I was, I was going to leave the team. Like, he's literally said that. I can't, I can't believe. Like, that's, that's an impossibility to me that that's, that that's actually true.

All right. I just, I think that's PR. I think that's PR, though. Yeah, there's two things here. First of all, one take I don't like from Islander fans is this idea that he was always going to Toronto and he had always had his mind made up from the very beginning. Because even if, I mean, he didn't do this week-long free agency bidding process just to waste everyone's time. Like he didn't drag the Dallas stars out to come and pitch to him because he had already made his mind up and he was just trying to cover and play with the emotions of Islanders fans. Like, I think the simplest explanation here is probably the right one, which is that he legitimately was conflicted.

He didn't, he didn't know what he was going to do until he made the final decision. And, you know, some of the feel-good PR around the whole, you know, the bed sheets and I, this is my childhood dream, I think, backfired a little bit because I don't think there was as much to that as maybe it was made out to be. And in an attempt to sell a nice story to one market, you ended up maybe saying. sending a bad message to another. But I'll say this. And again, I fully, if you're an Islander fan and you're pissed off at John DeVarres, good. I have no issue with that.

The one part I don't like is this idea that, you know, if he had just done it differently, it would have been okay. If he had just said, I don't want to stay here, so trade me. Like if he had asked to be traded at the trade deadline, that that would be okay. No, it wouldn't have been okay. Because then they would have said that he quit on the team in the middle of a playoff race. And if he had done it in the off season,

in the 2017 off season, that wouldn't have been okay. Because then they would have said he walked out before he'd even finished his contract and he didn't even give them a chance to pitch to him. He didn't even give him a chance to sign him. So whatever he did, you know, there's no good way to get broken up with. Whatever he did was going to be the wrong way to do it. There was no right way for him to handle it. Islander fans would be pissed off and would have retconned a narrative to be pissed off at him

no matter what he had done. And that's fine. ultimately you're you're supposed to be a little bit weird and crazy about this stuff and I don't mind when I Islander fans are. I just want to make the point that I think the rest of us aren't necessarily buying what they're selling when they say that if you had done it differently, that would have been totally fine with them because it wouldn't have been and it shouldn't have been. All right, we asked you the Puck Soup listeners to tell us who the biggest traders in your

franchise's histories are. We begin where we often begin. the biggest traitor according to the glory of 67 is Harold Ballard. Peyton Turnage writes in Ryan Suter or honorable mention Jordan Tutu's for signing with Detroit. I think both of those are crazy, by the way. They are a little crazy. The Detroit National Rivalry, though, I remember that I totally have very missed that. Gav writes in, Max Talbot blocked me for calling him Judas long enough after he signed with the flyers.

Max Talbot to me is something that somebody that's a good one. Penguins fans actually like. You like that one? Yeah, because he was like a beloved penguin who went to their direct rival. Like, that's as trade, that's as, you know,

heel turn to move as you can make. Yeah. John Fisher said, Ilya Colvichuk literally retired at the peak of his contract to go play in the cozy, friendly, soft environment of the SKA, St. Petersburg, instead of playing in the best league in the world. Colvichuk, the cue for quitter, is silent.

But at the same time, Ken Smith writes it and says, most devil fans will say Phrise or Colvichuk, but it's definitely Scott Gomez, going straight to the New York Rangers, is the ultimate act of betrayal. He made peace years later, but still. That's a very good point, man. Yeah.

Colvichuk goes to Russia, but fucking Gomez goes to the Rangers. 100%. Yep. Coach Jen says, despite now being a Blackhawks ambassador, Chris Chelios tops my list. to have to go into Detroit and winning them the Cup instead of us. Is that a sign?

Did he sign there? Yeah, he was traded. Yeah, that was, they got a couple of firsts for him. So that was, I don't know about that one. I mean, you can still not like it, though, right? Like, losing your favorite player to your big rival. But I don't think, like, he didn't, it's not like he, it was like a Danny, Danny Heatley thing where he was, like, get me out of here. And then.

Yeah, you sold out, like ECW. Jay Trav writes in, Matt Niskinan, questionable headshot to sit. after leaving for the caps. Thought about Talbot two cup goals immediately goes to Philly, but we weren't going to pay what they did, so I can't hate on that. I'm sure there's someone even further back

but I'm not trying to think that hard. We don't require you to think very hard in the show. That's fine. Let's see here. A lot of people say Ryan Suter from the Predators, that's very interesting to me. Mark McConville, my childhood team was the North Stars, so it's got to be Norm Green.

But now I'm an L.A. Kings fan, so everything is cool. there. Ethan McGarivie, this is interesting. For many Anaheim fans, the answer would be Korea. After his Hall of Fame induction and retirement ceremony, though, I think he's been forgotten. I don't recall Ducks fans being like Korea as a traitor.

That's interesting. Oh, yeah. They liked him as a player, but that was a weird. Like, he turned down $10 million said that wasn't enough money and then went and signed somewhere else for like. Colorado, right? For like a million. Yeah.

Like it was a real... With Salani. With Salani. With Salani. Yeah. I... Remember when Salani was a shark? Yep.

I think about that sometimes. I barely... Like, I know that happened. I have no recollection. But yeah, the Korean Salani combo to Colorado is like the got to be up there in the all-time. Let's just pretend this never happened and never speak of it again. Yeah. For sure.

Like that's right up there with like Messier in Vancouver. You're just like, that's not ever talking this. How about Sun Dean in Vancouver? Sorry, Sean. Oh, yeah. That's up there. I mean, that's one I'm surprised. Like, you talk about bad, like, that's another one where there are bad feelings that are now, you know, have been papered over and then he's welcome back.

But to, you know, that's the reverse tovars, right? To not to not go when you, when you're wanted to go. And also, you know, not just you not going, but to then because of who you are, prevent four other players from going. And then to say the reason I didn't go is because I want to retire here. And also, I don't want to be a midseason edition. And then you sign with a different team midway through the next season. That was a pretty good one. Jonathan Sharman, speaking of the Canucks, says, as a Canucks fan, it should be obvious,

Elias Pedersen in five years. Just kidding, it's still Messier. And then finally. I love the day that Messier is a traitor because he went there. They hate Mark Messier for signing there and being like, I will become your new captain and your best player. And they're like, you bastard. You absolute bastard.

Finally, Ryan Classic, a good friend writes in, The donated liver that saved Eugene and Melnick's life is a traitor. So that's always good to get that hand. That got dark. All right. That's the show for this week. Our thanks to Jim Bannermere for joining us. Some personal news, which is something that people say when they get fired or leaving their job,

but I am not. I'm moving to California with Ruby. Ruby got a job at Apple. I am currently, if you hear it, and it's kind of echoy and shitty audio-wise, because I am in a vacated apartment in Manhattan. They moved all of our stuff into boxes. We've been sleeping on an air mattress. It sucks. But farewell to the great city of New York for your boy and for his lovely wife and for sneakers. This has been the best time ever living here for last five years. And now off to San Jose, California. Campbell, to be exact. where I will be eating burritos with fries on them and going and getting to know Logan Couture in perpetuity. So that should be fun, I think. Probably will be fun. Should be. Brian. Bye.

I don't know. Sean. Yes. I will also say goodbye and I will plug my piece this week over the athletic. We are handing out the what we're calling the Shirelli Cup, which is we're trying to figure out what GM could build the, best starting lineup of players they traded away. And it turns out it's not Peter Shirelli, but I'll leave it to people to check that out and figure out who the top contenders are. Oh yeah. As long as we're doing plugs, sign up for the newsletter, sign up for Patreon,

all that kind of stuff. It's good. All right. Newsletter, a newsletter, please. Malbag coming up on Patreon as well. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll talk you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. and it's in goals and saves and slapshots and goons We've got sportly commentary To what if you commute But we also cover movies, TV shows It's in tunes

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