Puck Soup - Katie Baker

Episode Date: March 14, 2019

Katie Baker of The Ringer joins us to talk about Connor McDavid, changes in NHL fandom, John Tortorella, Bill Simmons and "Dating Around." Greg and Ryan tackle the playoff races, the Jake Voracek suspension appeal, NHL Awards controversies, Evgeni Malkin, an edition of Dinosaur Corner, which playoff teams should be Thanos-snapped and a spoiler review of "Captain Marvel" at the end of the episode, with fair warning. Sponsored by Seat Geek and Robinhood.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wyshinsky of the Worldwide Leader in Sports ESPN. I'm Ryan Lambert from Yahoo. I don't think we have a fun. I believe your slogan is we combine our traffic with NBC to make it look like we have many more readers than we do. Well, we have a lot, Greg.

Let's not. There's a good number. Actually, it's funny. People probably don't know this, but, you know, there still is a thing called com score. It's the ranking of websites and such and website audiences and such. And, you know, for a while when Ryan and I were both at Yahoo, Yahoo Sports, would beat ESPN on a number of occasions, mostly on the strength of the front page of Yahoo.com, which at the time was the world's homepage, really.

And also on the strength of the fantasy sports because people would create their team when they were in college, and then they would never get rid of their team or their league because they'd just come back to Yahoo every year. And so our traffic was so great that NBC actually came to us at Yahoo and said, we would like to partner with you because you kick our asses so hard during the Olympics as far as traffic and readership goes that we want to make sure that we get a piece of this. We want to make sure that we're on top of the mountain when it comes to the web traffic during the Olympics. So they actually came to Yahoo and said, you guys are doing a good thing. Maybe we can partner up with you. Now, part of this partnership, mind you, was that NBC would then promote all of the Yahoo stuff on their network.

And as you can tell, by how many times I appeared on NHL programming, that never really came to fruition. Now, granted, it does hurt. by the way, you're in Puck Soup. It does hurt my case to get on NBC programming when they actively dislike me for constantly ridiculing one of their talents.

For example, I can't imagine I'm getting the invite on NBC when I take time on this podcast to point out that Pierre McGuire fist bumped the Pittsburgh Penguins as they left the ice the other night

after the Washington game. No, he didn't. That can't be true. He was in his little cubbyhole between the benches, and then I guess he went over to where the players are leaving. And he's literally fist bumping the penguins as they leave the ice. Now, keep in mind that Pierre McGuire used to work for the penguins, but that was many moons ago. He would show no abject bias during the broadcast by constantly fillating Sidney Crosby. But I have to admit that it is a little bit jarring to see a, you know,

broadcaster, not a journalist, we all agree, that Jessica Mendoza thing with another referendum on whether or not broadcasters are journalists. And we've all come to agree that, yes, you can actively work for the front office of a major league baseball team while also being a broadcaster because you're not expected. I'm not sure we agreed on that, but sure. Well, I mean, you know, I agree on that. But I think, well, you know, I think, I think in general the media gadflies, your Richard Diches, your Brian Curtis's of the world, all kind of said that broadcasters aren't journalists. They can't be held to the same standard.

And my take on the Mendoza thing, to take it away from Pierre for a second, because God knows that everybody would like to do that. My take in the Mendoza thing is that I don't see there being much difference between her working for the Mets and doing the broadcast than fully understanding that every single broadcaster on an NFL game that used to play for the Dallas Cowboys, is going to root for the Dallas Cowboys. Like, I mean, have you ever watched Aikman or Romo and not thought, oh, I mean,

they're obviously really good for the Cowboys in this game? Well, I don't watch football, so. But, I mean, you know, it happens all the time on NHL broadcast, too. Everybody's, like, all NBC does, apart from Doc, who is a former just a team broadcaster, and Pierre, who I don't think ever had a job in broadcasting before the NBC, DEOC, everybody's just like, oh, A. Yolchuk, oh, Chicago Blackhawks, unbelievable. Keith Jones, oh, Philadelphia Flyers, can you believe it?

And you can go on down the list. And, you know, the only person I think maybe docks in their pocket is the fucking Pittsburgh Pirates. But, like, independent, not on the take, not on the dahl. any team. Speaking of independence, the city of independence, Philadelphia, flyers, capitals, next. Next. Yeah, no, it's a problem in hockey. So I guess it's not really a problem in baseball, especially since, like, the Mets aren't going to be on too many Sunday night games anyway. Yeah, the only thing that, I mean, honestly, the only thing that ever crossed my mind about that is the same thing that crossed my mind when A-Rod started doing the games.

for Fox and for ESPN, which is that, you know, he was an advisor to the Yankees. And my only thought is, like, would there be a point where they're, like, candidly express your opinions on what's wrong with this Yankees player? And could he do it. And I wonder if you work for the team, if you could ever be that candid. But I don't mean, honestly, like, I do see the separation between. Yeah, but I do see the separation between journalism and broadcasting. I mean, it's always been that way.

To the point where, like, you know, I guess I must have, done something horrible in my life to get Pierre McGuire and Jeremy Roanick on the same game broadcast last night. But it happened. I'm glad I wasn't home. Jesus Christ. And so at one moment I'm like, oh, my God, how much bullshit is this that Jeremy Roanick is broadcasting a Chicago Blackhawks game? And then I thought to myself, oh, wait, he's replacing a guy who literally is paid by the Blackhawks. Right.

That works the broadcasts usually. Yeah. And let's Ronik played for like half the league. He also can't do Flyers games. He can't do Sharks games. Who else do he played for Arizona, obviously? Yeah. He could probably do those games, I imagine.

It's a different uniform. Nobody cares. And they're never on IBC anyway. So anyway, Pierre McGuire, fist bumping the penguins as they leave the ice. Again, we all know what the situation is. That's just like cool shit, dude. Hell yeah. You can either go one of two ways here.

It's that he is constantly a shill for the Pittsburgh Penguins, or he is so desperate to be buddy-buddy and go have fun out there kind of a thing with these guys. It's definitely option too. It's probably. Yeah, probably. Anyway, that's why I'm never on NBC, right, is the point. Speaking of the Flyers, which we kind of were, but not really. Yacoborichick, I mentioned the Flyers at some point.

Yacavorechek had a two-game suspension, and he was very upset about it. this. If you didn't see the play, the puck's in the corner. It's coming around the corner. It's coming towards Vorichick. Johnny Boychuk of the New York Islanders, forever a brewing in my mind, by the way. Oh, yeah. I'm skating in. Come skating in on Vorichick. And Vorichick's like, oh my God, Johnny Boychuk is a psychopath. He's going to hit me really hard. And Johnny Boychuk may or may not have been trying to do that. He may have been trying to go for the puck, who knows. But Vorichick

unleashes his countermeasures, which is him throwing his back into Boychuk's head and then injuring him and then he suspended two games. But because the Flyers are inexplicably still in a playoff race, which is kind of crazy. They're not fucking. No, dude, as we do the show today, man,

they are five points out of a playoff spot with a game in hand. They're not in a playoff race. The Flyers are like, dude, this is bullshit. We definitely need our guy against the Capitals this week. Voracek actually conceded that he interfered with Boychuk to the point where it should be at least a one-game suspension, which is why he missed the game against Ottawa the day before the Gary Betman ruling, appeal ruling. But they're like, he should definitely only miss one game. So they actually appealed it, and you never fucking ever see it.

It's crazy. Somebody appeal a two-game suspension. And so Gary Betman humored the NHLPA and humored Mr. Vorichick, as he said, in the, in the, in the, in the, the appeals explanation. He picked up the New York Times house style. That's right. And also the Wall Street Journal, the ruling had a chalk drawing of Jakob Vorichek's head. It's very exciting.

And then Batman said in the appeal, at the hearing, it was acknowledged that Mr. Vorichick had other options available to him, but instead Mr. Vorichick moved into Mr. Boychuk's path by taking a step to the left. and driving upwards into Mr. Boychuk. The onus was on Mr. Vorichick to avoid causing a significant blow to Mr. Boychuk's head. It's like you're talking about two elderly neighbors is what it sounds like. Mr. Vorichuk stole Mr. Boychuk's rake. It's when Rand Paul got tackled off his lawnmower by the guy who was mad about property lines or whatever. Maybe the coolest news story of the last three years. The force was significant enough to cause Mr. Boychuk to require medical attention

on the ice and he did not return for the balance of the game. It is worth acknowledging that during his long NHL career, Mr. Voroček has maintained a strong character and a clean record with no prior supplemental discipline history. However, that does not absolve Mr. Voracek of the responsibility to play this game in a safe manner in accordance to the applicable rules. Accordingly, the Department of Player Safety is decision to suspend Mr. Voracek is supported by clear and convincing evidence and is affirmed. And seen.

Lots of two-game suspensions for high-end players this year. You ever noticed that? Jack Eichael got one. Connor McDavid got one. Yeah, but I think it might have been Elliot Friedman, who said that there was like an all-star team's worth of players that were suspended. For me, the bigger news this year for the Department of Player's Safety is, as you mentioned, two game suspensions.

There's been too many of them. Oh, yeah. And the average length of suspension this year is under two games. Last year, I think around this time, there were seven or eight suspensions that were north of three games. And so far this season, I think we've had three, including the Tom Wilson one. So, like, they, I don't know. I would love to have a conversation with George Peros about this at some point,

about what happened where now we are going maybe a game or a game or two lower than we should on some of these suspensions. I don't know if it's because of the caliber of the player getting involved in this shit or what, but it's definitely been more kid gloves this year and it's been in years past. Yeah, and that's saying something because anybody, you know, who's read my stuff at any point in the last decade has been like, yeah, wow, you really think they should be giving out suspensions like crazy and like huge game numbers every single time. And that's right, I do. But why do you think they're coming in low is the question? I think what you said about they're suspending more higher-end players.

I think Eric Carlson also got a two-gamer at some point this year. And also just the fact of like, you know, they're out of the woods with the, or maybe partly out of the woods, with the concussion settlement. And now they can go back to being like, hey, boy, it's just boys being boys out there, folks. That's really interesting. I never thought about that. That's a good point. There is a, there is a, it might just be a coincidence, but maybe it's not.

not a coincidence that those two things are so closely related. I did see some people and noted Philadelphia beat writer Sam Cartchidi gave at least a little bit of voice to this, saying that, quote, Gary Bettman, first of all, Cartcidi wrote, the most curious part of Betman's statement on Voracek was that he went out of his way to point out Boychuk was injured on the play and did not return. So if Boychuk doesn't land on his shoulder and pops right up, there's no suspension for the hit. Well, no, even Vorichick said there should be a suspension for the hit.

But, like, I'm sorry, have you been in a coma? Isn't it so interesting, Greg, that all these, anytime anybody from a certain team gets suspended, everybody in the media in that city is like, now hold on a second. All the other suspensions that were exactly like this. Look. Yeah. Absolutely right. But this one in particular, I don't know.

It's such an interesting phenomenon. Are you telling me that if a player is injured on a play that requires a suspension, they give him more games, said someone from 1946 that had never seen the Department of Player's Safety ever rule on anything? I know. It's because, it is like, it is like the peanut butter to the jelly of the Department of Player's Safety. that like if you are injured on a play, there's more games on the suspension. But then somebody wrote to Cartyidi, and this is what really got my goose last night, and I don't mean the adorable Furkin from Captain Marvel that we'll be talking about later. Betman should not be the

one to rule on these appeal cases, said Flyers fan. He is never going to reverse the Department of Player's Safety rulings. An independent arbiter is necessary for fairness. Now, for those of you who are an idiot, you know, that there is an independent arbitrator, and this person rules on suspensions that are six games or more. That's, you know, it goes through Betman, and then the NHLPA can appeal to the independent arbitrator. The idea of this mechanism existing for suspensions of one or two games is just fucking nuts to me. Like, it's just nuts to me.

Well, again, if this doesn't happen to their best buddy, Jake, like, if, if Gennie Malkin, goes through the same thing? You think any Flyers fan gives a shit? Well, no. But just like, why don't all of a sudden, like, legal, like, they're all colombo and, and, like, they're, you know, it's the thing of they're breaking down the game film. Oh, you know, if he, like, it's the Zapruder film, if he kind of comes in and I don't know if he really made head contact.

And then when it goes to, like, everybody feels like they've, you know, they've watched enough law in order to be able to figure out what Gary Betman, you know, practice. practicing lawyer for however many years has written and they're trying to pick apart his case. Yeah. Right. It's insane. They slow down the video and go pixel by pixel and they find out that Jakob Vorichick didn't actually hit Johnny Poichuk. It's just that somebody from the Tampa Bay bench said rag it.

Now listen. Okay. The point of this is this is that, first of all, the neutral arbitrator thing was collectively bargained. So the players are okay with it not being applicable to a one or two game suspension. But more to the point is, one, the process takes longer than it would take for a guy to sit out one or two games. I mean, unless you're going to enact some, you know, bullshit version of the Major League Baseball Rule where a guy plays until he's suspended. Oh, that's great. Okay, so the guy he injured, he's out for a month, but this Dick Wod can just play as many games as he can until the paperwork's done.

Come on. And then the other thing, too, is you might as well just, like, castrate the Department of Player's Safety, like, Jackie Sherrill trying to inspire a college football team with a bull. Because, like, it's always going to go to the arbitrator. It's never, the decision will never stop with the Department of Player Safety. It's not as you're going to have a fucking player in there who gets suspended for two games going, you know what, Mayacolpa, you guys are right. I'm not going to appeal as is my right to somebody who might give me my money back. Like, that's insane. You might as well just get rid of the department then and just have.

some knucklehead who's never watched hockey ruled on the videos. Right. I mean, and we've seen, like, basically every time it goes to a quote-unquote neutral arbitrator or whatever, they always rule in favor of the player. Yeah, yeah, exactly, which is amazing. I mean, it's actually a hell of a losing streak for the NHL. I mean, I think in the Tom Wilson case, it could be argued that the NHL, remember, when the South Park movie came out and Trey and that were like, we packed

that movie with so many horrible, heinous, ex-rated jokes because we knew that some would get cut, and then the jokes who really wanted to get into the movie would then get into the movie. Like, I think the NHL went super high on the Tom Wilson suspension, knowing it would probably get knocked down because there's no precedent

for it, and then they end up with a pretty decent suspension regardless. They should have gone 50 games, but yeah, I mean, look, like I said, you're, you're, any time somebody gets suspended, the agreement party is going to live within a 20 mile radius of that guy's home rink. And that's the only people who are going to care. And so, like, I really can't get, like, too worked up about, you know, is that, like, like I said, I feel like

every suspension isn't long enough, you know? And so, boy, like, Tom Wilson's a great example of like, oh, the first four suspensions, okay, those made sense in retrospect, but this latest one, too much. And it just, you kick the can down the road and that kind of thing. And I can't, I can't care what, like, local media and fans think of a suspension. I just can't do it, because it doesn't matter. It is, yeah, I know. And it sucks.

But it is sort of like the barometer of homerism, I think, for a lot of guys, too. They could be critical of a team with the minute that there's a suspension. Everybody kind of circles the wagons around their guy. It's a very interesting phenomenon. Enough of the flyers. Let's talk about the other team in the Keystone State rivalry, the Pittsburgh Penguins. Gino Malkin, who of course was on the top 100 players of all time list that myself, Dave Lozo, and Down Goes Brown compiled because we're good at our jobs. 1,000 points, my friend.

1,000 points for Gino. It's a good number. And it's a great number. And Sid and Gino both getting to a thousand points in the same team puts them in the categories of your Gordy Howe and Alex Delvecchio, you're Brian Trotier and Mike Bossie and your Henrik Sidene and Daniel Sidene. And like, how great is that? He's so damn good and it still makes me angry. that he didn't understandable. You know, but it didn't make that list, but good for Gino for getting the thousand points.

Yeah, he's awesome. I don't really have much more to add to it than that. I mean, he's been, you know, a top five center in the league, occasionally top one or two for his entire career, basically. I can't think of too many seasons where I would have put him outside that. And, yeah, I mean, he's battled. through some injuries. I mean, he hasn't missed as much as Sid has, but he's definitely like maybe a little delayed,

I guess you'd say, in getting to a thousand if, you know, if we're saying, oh, yeah, Ovechkin, who came into the league the same year as him, got to 1,200 already, you know? So, you know, it's one of those things where both him and Crosby missed not insignificant pieces of their prime scoring years.

and you just kind of wonder what could have been, but first ballot Hall of Fame or all that kind of stuff. Just 1001st best player of all time, and that's all there is to it. Not as good as Taves, though. No, definitely not. Taves will only have to play like, I don't know, three, four, five more years before he gets to a thousand.

Pretty good. Yeah, he's great. All right. So the penguins and the flyers are both challenging in the Eastern Conference. The Penguins right now are a third in the Metro as we do this podcast. The Flyers are five points out in Ryan thinks they're done. But I believe in the magic of Carter Hart. The Eastern Conference playoff picture is really funky right now. Not so much in the Atlantic, which is going to be Tampa, Boston, Toronto, full stop. Washington is two points up on the Islanders as you do the podcast and four points up on the Penguins. Caroline and Columbus are your wildcard teams with Montreal right there on Columbus's ace. And hey, Maddie Dushain putting up the points now for Columbus.

Maybe he's gotten his smile back. Very exciting. Very exciting time for Columbus. Yeah, it seems like they're figuring it out a little bit. It's one of those things where I didn't feel like they were as bad as they were immediately after the deadline. And maybe having, I think, 15 new guys in the room kind of makes it hard to, get everybody's lines going correctly and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, I...

The only thing I guess I would say is it would have been insanely funny if they missed the playoffs, and I guess they still could, right? They definitely still could. I don't know. I don't believe in these Canadian's either. Like, I guess I believe in the Canadian's less than I believe in Columbus. There's one thing on Columbus's schedule that gives me pause. two things really. They got Carolina on Friday night at home, and that's a really, really interesting game.

I mean, that's going to be maybe like Carolina's Super Bowl right there to try to create a little bit more distance between them and Columbus. Then after that game, Columbus has to go at Boston, at Calgary, at Edmonton, at Vancouver. That awkward Western Canada swing as you're trying to make the playoffs is it's either going to be a great thing or a horrible thing. Yeah, and plus at Boston at Calgary back to back, I don't know. The flames are not getting good goaltending lately. I think they've lost for their last five or something like that. And so that's interesting to think about as like what's Calgary look like down the stretch and how does that affect all their opponents who are in a playoff spot.

But yeah, man. See, I don't know. The thing is, I don't want to believe in Montreal either. I don't want them in the playoffs. There's so many other options to me that are much more interesting than having Montreal on the playoffs this year. But the thing is, is that if you look at their last five games of the season, they play the Blue Jackets, so that's a four-point game.

They go at Winnipeg, which is going to be brutal because the Jets are still going to be in the playoffs. But then Tampa at Washington and then Toronto are their last three games for the season. And so that could easily be Syracuse, Hershey, and the Marley's. by that point. Yeah, that's true. You know, so they might have a little bit of, they might have like a six point run at the end of the season that you have to account for just because of the way the schedule is set up this year.

Yeah, I don't know if, like, I think Tampa has already said, like, we're not looking to, like, rest too many guys down the stretch because, you know, you get guys going for scoring, or not just scoring titles, but, like, modern scoring records, because I think Thornton is 125. is his point total, and Kuturav might be, he might pass it by then, but he's certainly going to be in that neighborhood.

And they're going for 130 points or whatever as a team. So I don't know. I'd be interested. Toronto definitely, I mean, they're going to be locked into that third spot. So, you know, why not rest guys? But I don't know. By the way, was there anything more predictable than the fact that the Leafs were going to score four goals and get back into a five-th-th-th game? and then fall short.

Like, I mean, I made a joke about it. Like, at some point at the end of the game, people are going to make, it was five-nothing jokes. But I was serious. Like, that's exactly their makeup as a team, which is the ability to turn it on and take over a game and just pummel somebody. But then either they've dug themselves too deep of a hole because they're so shitty defensively or because, you know, Freddie Anderson has an off night.

Or they just simply don't have that extra whatever the fuck to get over the hump. Yeah. And it was so funny because when Chicago was up five, nothing, multiple people were like, you know, if they could just bottle this. And it's like, yeah, if they could play Toronto in a who gives a shit night every night and also, you know, score five goals on every 26 shots they take. You know, you're right. Like they've looked some, I think it was Lazarus was saying, you know, they've looked really good lately. you know, don't let the record fool you. You know, maybe this team could make a push

and it's just like, bro, they're at like 46% coursey in the last 15 games. Yeah. And the difference is they have like 102 PDO, whereas when they were really bad, quote unquote, in November and December, they had like a 52% coursey, but a 97 PDO. And it's like, oh, yeah, I think I figured out

what the real magic here was. Yeah. And it's shocking. They could look amazingly great in garbage time, and then at the end of the year, Brent C. Brooks still has a full no-move close. Right. You're still in the same pickle you've been in. It's partly the Florida thing from last year, right, where it's like, well, we played like absolute shit for the first four months of the season. We're 58 points out of the playoffs, and we're going to go on a run, baby.

Here we go. And it's like, you know, maybe whatever they ended up with last year, 91, 92 points was what they should have been. the entire season, but it just came in like two different stretches of either being horrible or being great. And it's the same thing with Chicago. What are they going to end up with? Like 88 points or something? And if that sounds about right to me. To go back to Columbus for a second, if they make the playoffs and they get their asses handed to him by Tampa like everyone expects that they will, like what then? Like did the swing for the fences by Yarmal Kekelainen at the deadline necessitate them winning a playoff round or did this is getting to the playoffs

and then just getting mauled by the best the best team of the last 25 years going to be good enough yeah it's weird because you know if they if they finish seventh and they and they draw into their own division that's interesting like that is but if they finish eighth and they get Tampa you're going to go well shit you know what we're supposed to do We play Tampa. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's maybe a nice little out.

Maybe it depends on how. Like if they remember when Detroit played them a couple years ago and everybody's like, well, Detroit made the playoffs again. And Tampa was like, did they? Yeah, exactly. All right. It's going to be like one of those things where like Yarmu Kekalina and can get to the end of the year press conference. It'd be like, hey, everybody. It's me.

Yarmu. Well, we made the big trades at the deadline. Oopsie. We played Tampa Bay in the first round. Goodbye to us. But, you know, you. shoot your shot and then we're like you know what you shoot your shot man and good for you for doing it and boo it sucks that you had to play tampa like i think they'll get a pass for it even though like

you add b'shain and zingle and and and all these cats and like you're like they should probably win a playoff round at this point it's not here's the thing you add all those guys and you should be able to play your way out of having the excuse about Tampa right like you should be able to in theory you add all this talent you should should, what were, they were ninth when they made the Duchenne trade. So you should, that should be worth bumping yourself up two spots. And if it, and if it isn't, I feel like that's a failure. But I feel like we've also made this point before.

Greg, what about the Western Conference playoffs? Listen, I'm, with all due respect to the Arizona Coyotes, the Carolina Hurricanes are my darling team. I don't have room of my heart for more like, sad sack franchises that all of a sudden make the playoffs. So like, I'm excited that they're in it. I think that of the options for that last wild card spot, I'd probably rather to see them than Minnesota and probably than Colorado because we recently saw Colorado. We haven't seen Arizona in a while.

But I just don't, I can't. There's only one Cinderella at this ball baby, and it's the Carolina hurricanes. Yeah, I agree. I'm really sick of like, oh, man, the coyotes have played so well the last couple of months to get back into this. And it's like, I looked it up yesterday, buddy, and like Darcy Kemper's. like 935 in his last 10, 15 starts. And that's the difference. It's not that they're playing well because they aren't.

They're getting out shot almost every night. They're shooting percentages a little high, but it's not crazy. And Darcy Kempers just turned into Dominic Hachick. And it's amazing that like when it comes to the Chicago Blackhawks or the Edmonton Oilers still being in the playoff race, the immediate default setting for everybody is like, oh, it's because the West is dog shit. And like until last night when Edmonton lost to the Blake Pitella, New Jersey Devils, who by the way was,

sure, whatever. Had the highest ice time. He had the highest ice time of any devils forward last night on the road in Edmonton and Edmonton lost to that fucking team. So like when these two monstrosities are still in the playoff line, Edpinton, who's fired both their coach and their general manager in the course of the same regular season and Chicago who's fired their coach. Everyone's like, oh, they're just hanging around because parody is stupid and because the West is dog shit. When Arizona makes the second wild card in that's under the same circumstances.

Incredible story. And they're amazing. Yeah. Everybody in Canada's right in the goddamn Rick Tocket should usurp Barry Trots for the Jack Adams story. Like, what is going on? It's John Cooper. This shit drives me so crazy. I wrote about it last week. Like, I know that we're supposed to just give the Jack Adams to whatever coach of a bad team has the highest PDO, like Tortorella. Shit, what's his name from? Oh, Bob Hartley.

Bob Hartley. And then wait two years for them to get fired, and then we're good to go. But, man, I can't do it, especially this year. And it's like, you know what? John Cooper is probably going to be, certainly the best coach of the best team in the last 25 years. And yeah, he has a lot of talent to work with. But like, is that his fault? No.

It's not his fault. They're going to end with 130 points. It's not Phil Jackson's fault that he coached Michael Jordan. It's not Pat Riley's fault that he had Kareem and Magic. Like, it's, it's, it's, right. There is something to be said for the, for, for, for being. a guy who coaches the best talent. How many teams have we've seen that were like super teams and and stack with talent and

they couldn't coach, they couldn't figure them like fucking Mike Johnston in Pittsburgh. Like how many guys have we seen come in take over super talented teams and make just mush out of it? And here's Cooper leading this team to potentially the highest point total of any team in the history of the NHL. Thank you loser points. And I understand the Trots narrative.

And I don't understand the Tocket narrative. To me, Craig Baroobee is well ahead of Rick Tocket and the fucking Jack Adam standings. I think my four would go Cooper, Trots, Baruby, and then Bill Peters in Calgary. Yeah, I think you have. Again, yeah, I think Bill Peters, much to my chagrin and much of the chagrin of the former co-oist of the show, I'm sure, because he used to be the biggest detractor of Bill Peters in the world. You have to give him credit. I think the goal-tending has been a huge surprise in Calgary, but they're so questioned that what he's done with that lineup

and what he's done systematically and what he's done, even on a communication basis with those guys, has helped them achieve the offensive heights that they've reached. And it's the fourth best coaching job in the league this year. And it's the fourth best coaching job in the league, which is, again, like, listen, I'm not trying to say that it's not impressive. The coyotes aren't where Anaheim is, given the injuries that they've suffered.

But like you said, dog shit conference, hot goalie, add those two together equals last wildcard spot. Right. And they still have a dozen games to go. Like if Darcy Kemper turned into a 902 goalie tomorrow, would anybody be surprised? And then the coyotes go back to losing, you know, eight of their last 12. And everybody's like, what happened? Well, you know, goalies get hot and goalies go cold.

Yeah. I don't get it. But it's, it is fun to see them in. I mean, the only thing. Literally the only thing I care about in the Western Conference right now is getting San Jose out of that second seat and into the top seat in the Pacific. So we avoid San Jose and Vegas in the first round. I want to keep those two guys around for as long as I can. It's like watching the Royal Rumble.

Like you get certain guys that enter the Royal Rumble and you're like, I don't want to see these guys go out for a while. I want to see him hang around and see what kind of like if Kofi Kingston is in at number 10, you want Kofi to hang around for a little bit just to see the fun shit he's going to do. And so, by the way, this Kofi program they're doing right now? So good. It's so good, right? And it's a little bit of K-Fame, a little bit of K-Fame, a little bit of, you're not championship material. I mean, it's pretty great. It worked for Daniel Bryan, right?

It's awesome. It has. It's the opposite of whatever this Rousey builder doing is where she's like shitting on wrestling. She's the worst. She's like, she can't talk. The substance of what she has to say is bad. She can't work. Like, I get that she's the biggest star.

No, come on. There's two things that she does well. She can work. I think she's great in the ring. And I think that she's good at one thing, which is to do the, I am going to, I don't care what you're saying to me, Becky, I'm going to just beat your ass. Like, she's really good at that thing. But this notion of her being, like, she showed up in WWE wearing a fucking

Rowdy Piper, Roddy Piper shirt and talking about how much wrestling is her passion. And now we're going to turn her into the wrestling shit and MMA rules, girl. Come on. This nonsense. It makes no sense character-wise. No. And also, yeah. Becky, let you go over at WrestleMania.

That's it. Goes without saying. That's been wrestling corner. I just don't want to see San Jose and Vegas in the first round. I want to see Calgary and Vegas. It would be a really fun series. And yeah, and in the central, I mean, there's still an outside chance that, like, St. Louis could catch Nashville because they have a couple games in hand.

But it's stacked enough to be that Winnipeg Nashville had been. weight fight fight again in the in the division final and give me that although i have to admit i have to admit this i've had a couple people that i trust say to me national's going out in one i got a lot of people telling me that Nashville is is has looked so uh disconnected and uncohesive and uh and a bit of a mess like the jets i haven't been super impressed with basically all year i don't think they have a particular like i don't think they have a particular like I don't think they have a good enough defense to go deep. And, you know, St. Louis is barely holding on to that third spot in the central now.

They're up, they're up two points on Dallas, and Dallas is playing well all of a sudden. Like, if St. Louis dropped back out of that and ended up in the wild card, I wouldn't be surprised. And, oh, man, it's a really interesting race in that division, because every team has, has, like, a pretty obvious flaw. You're absolutely right. And, you know, it wouldn't shock me to see any of them go out in one. I do find it hilarious, by the way, that, like, and again, it's entirely possible that this is just coincidence. But it's undeniable that after Horshitgate in Dallas, Tyler Sagan went from being, like, two consecutives a month of, like, a shooting percentage around, like, I think it was like six or eight. It was six or seven, yeah.

Like, to then, like, 14 and two consecutive months. So, like, either the, they raised the crossbars in every game that Dallas played or something went on there as far as. Well, I mean, Christ, that's what happened. That's what got him traded out of Boston, right? He shot like 2% in the playoffs in 2013. Yeah. And then, you know, he goes to Dallas and instantly shoots like 16%. And everybody's like, amazing.

Well, not really. I mean, that, and they had to put a security guard outside of his hotel room to keep him in there during the playoffs. I mean, that was a thing. Sure. Wasn't it? allegedly. Oh, by the way, how great is it that there's all this Kyrie Irving talk about like what's going to happen when he leaves the Celtics? And I actually heard on the radio the other day, someone pondering, will the local media trash him after he leaves?

I'm like, do you even know what city he plays in? Will they? Great question. It is going to be like the national inquirer when Kyrie leaves. I will say that the people who cover the Celtics, I think mostly do. like a really good job and they do and like they're they're not taking themselves too seriously like certain members of the Boston media but um you know certainly like I don't think the people who cover the team every day would do it but you know everybody else in the lobe you're like the talk radio people who get the loud voices and stuff like that oh they would they're going to shiv him

so hard dude oh yeah yeah I take stock in that answer and speaking of stock Robin Hood. That's how bad. Damn. It's, is it, yeah, I know.

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So if you're like me and you're at the gym, which are there in order to then go drinking that night so you don't feel horrible about it, and you look up and like CNBC's on and now you're seeing a ticker and you're seeing numbers and you're seeing some guy talking buy and sell and he's slamming a button and he's yelling all around and you don't know what's going on. Well, with Robin Hood, they make it easier. to understand what's going on. You discover new stocks, track your favorite companies, and get custom notifications for price move in,

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Well, I mean, I know that you've been aching to watch Smilth. Robin Hood is giving listeners of Puck Soup a free stock like Apple, Ford, or Sprint to help you build your portfolio. It'll sign up at PuckSoup.robinhood.com. That's PuckSoup all one word. Dot Robin Hood, all one word.com. By the way, crashing got canceled on HBO. I don't know if you ever watched Crashing with Pete Holmes. Yeah, it was fine.

I haven't watched this season yet, which everybody said was good. Well, here's the thing. I liked it better when it was bad, because, it was more about him interacting with comics. It was about the New York comedy scene. This is very well me may be me being nostalgic for the place I used to live and going to the cellar and seeing that whole kind of scene. But then this season, it became a thing,

became more of an Appetalian comedy where he got a girlfriend and he's interacting with his parents and this whole thing. It became kind of a different show. It probably was a better show for a lot of people. But for me, not so much. I will say, though, that the finale of this season, which then serves as the series finale was fantastic, and for two reasons. John and Malaney, who was all over the episode and bringing his genius there.

And I'm convinced now that if you add John Malaney's literally anything, it gets exponentially better. And which is me saying he should host the NHL Awards. They couldn't afford him, Greg. Come on. Well, let's see. They could afford Nick Kroll, and he's a hockey fan. so maybe if they if he's the cheese on the mouse trap to catch Tom John Malaney they could get him to it. If they could get both of them, oh my God.

Now you're talking, right? And just as Gilfizan and George St. Geekland. John Malaney is so good, he makes, he makes me think Nick Kroll is funny, which I think is a really impressive feat if you think about it. I don't know. I'm a Nick Kroll fan. He said having never watched Kroll show in my entire life. but all the other stuff. That's good.

What you just did is everybody who said, I love Amy Schumer when before Trainwreck came out, but never had watched inside Amy Schumer. It's the same flex. Anyways, Katie Baker is a friend of the podcast who is finally on this podcast. Ryan and I have known her for years. She is, of course, a ridiculously talented writer who was written for Grantland and then moved over with Bill Simmons to work on the ringer.

you know her from many, many articles she's written, including one recently on Connor McDavid. We get into hockey, we get into her writing career, we get into dating around on Netflix, which I'm extraordinarily happy she saw, so I finally had a reason to talk about it with somebody. And of course, we talk about her being a young fan girl growing up in the New York metropolitan area listening to Mike Francesa then and Mike Francesa now, the shocking revelation from Katie Baker she is in fact a subscriber to the Mike Francesa app. Here's Katie. Damn. Wow.

You got to respect it. Joining down the line is a good friend of mine. We're both now Californians, which is kind of trippy. Katie Baker, staff writer for the ringer, and a longtime favorite of most hockey fans, I think, although you do write more than hockey. Your last opus for the ringer before your latest one, was about the J-Lo and Alex Rodriguez engagement.

Yeah, so, you know, for my old days at Grantland, then I covered hockey and weddings. I've been a little bit out of practice, but, you know, couldn't let the wedding of the century. It was really the true Royal American Wedding passed me by. So it was fun to get back on that beat, for sure. Are you worried that Jose Canseco may have thrown a monkey wrench into the nuptial plans of J-Rod?

I will say, and like, hopefully this isn't outing my past history in some way, but when I was Googling Alex Rodriguez, like, in the course of writing my recent article, I was definitely getting some, what's your name, Jennifer, Jennifer Cantero, like, auto-fill. So, you know, it's not a universal outcome. I'm sure A-Rod's social media team can't be happy about that. No, it's not optimal. Jessica Konseco, is that what it is?

Sure, I mean, it's, it's whoever. It's just odd that in, in 2019, like, Jose Konseko, you know, enters the, the public discourse. It's a very strange thing. He kind of has, he kind of has, like, an asymmetric, you know, power here. Like, he could say anything.

and like I feel like they can't even like react to it. And so it's just kind of out there, you know, on Google news. Do you think that this engagement was a response from Jay Lowe's marketing team to the negative reaction to her tribute to Motown on the Grammys? Well, you know, I think it's all, I'd like to think that they're playing the long game and that when Alex Rodriguez's notes during a broadcast were, like, visible on screen and it said, and I'm paraphrasing here, so apologies if this wasn't a direct quote, but basically said, like, Jennifer Birth Control.

So, you know, I think when that was set in motion, it created a series of events that could only lead to this moment. To this moment, absolutely. And the Instagram wedding announcement. You and I have known each other for a long time. I don't know if we've ever discussed on a podcast that we knew each other even before we knew who each other was, because you and I were both active on the hockey news groups on Usenet back in the day, which was an amazing discovery that I made. And I think I only made it when you wrote the seminal classic on Deadspin.

I was a teenage hockey message board jailbase. which is still one of my favorite things that's ever appeared on that site. But it's amazing, it is amazing to think that, like, in this, in this wacky world of the internet now where everybody puts on airs and creates personas and whatever, like, you and I were forbearers of the creating personas thing on hockey message boards back in the day. Yeah. I mean, what I always think about is how funny it was that, like, the range, I don't know, like the cool place to hang out for me was the flyer message board

for reasons that, you know, I think we take years of therapy and really like some of the depth of that one. But yeah, you know, I always think it's funny. When I wrote that piece and the piece you're referring to, I talk about my years as a teenager who, like you said, was obsessed with was online and online at that time was primarily using it. But like I got so many responses to that. And I may have been a little untruthful in certain ways, but in other ways it was, you know, my real true of self, as the Internet can cause us to be.

But I got a lot of emails from people that were like, this same thing happened to me, except it was on the Star Wars forums or like Matthew fan forums. So in a way, it was like, this very weird universal micro experience that, you know, it seems like you also shared maybe not to that extent, but just in terms of kind of that explosion of like connectivity and like murdery at that time. Yeah. And what was interesting about that time was, it really was sort of like a game

of Thrones map. Like the Flyers kingdom was this place of complete chaos. The Rangers kingdom was this place of unique anger. The devil. The devil's kingdom was this place of, well, everything's fine. We keep winning cups. And then the Islander's place was just super boring. But what was amazing about it, like you said, was that the chaos, the real intrigue and the fun of it and the arguments were when, you know, there would be invaders into each kingdom, when a Ranger fan would go to the Flyers place, when a Flyers fan would come to the Devils Forum. And I feel like the change that's been made in the last like 20 years, just to put a number on it that makes us both feel fucking ink. ancient is the notion that all of these conversations now, I feel like, are happening in a giant courtyard. And it's not like everybody has their own little space. And then a Ranger fan goes to the Reddit group for the flyers and like, hey, I'm a Ranger fan. Come fight me. I feel like all of these conversations are now happening under the general like NHL umbrella versus anything else. And I feel like that's been the big change as far as like online fandom goes in the last you know two decades

yeah no i mean like i i always try to like find like i'm always trying to find what is replicating that and you're right there's not really there's nothing yeah there's nothing i mean like one see it's totally team dependent but like the comment section on like the s b nation blogs for a particular team are sometimes as close as you get to that, but it's like stripping away all the, you know, arguments and the back and forth and like the fiscan, you know, that lost art. And, and like you said, they're rabble-rousing. Like, it's like, oh, don't know. And let's be kind to our visiting fan.

So, yeah, I totally miss that. And then on Twitter, you can't, you know, you can have a private account or something, but like you can't really you can't really portion off what you're trying to say and be like no I'm just you know five fan look aside like I'm not talking about what's funny about Twitter is that like people are always asking me why I'm so argumentative on Twitter and to the point where like people that know me are like why is your Twitter persona so much different than who you really are and I'm like because I learned how to do this hockey writing thing on messages. boards in college. Like my entire schick was developed writing on Usenet or writing on NJDFans.net or whatever. And so that part of me is always going to be a part of me where it feels natural to have somebody be like, here is a debate point. And it had me come back and be like, here is another debate point.

And just have that continue for an hour. And so to other people, it's like, why are you obsessing with people over people that have 10 followers and their avatar is an egg and I'm like, because I don't know anything else. And you're like, sir, if I may. Right, if I may. It's not an egg. It's an oval. Yeah. No, I know. I mean, I'm, I wish I had that kind of, you know, fortitude and stamina, but I'm up. I'm like, I'm sitting there trying to write and I'm preemptively imagining like what people are going to say. and then I'm like, oh no, I must qualify every such as 12 hours.

It's like, well, only time will tell. Yeah, right, exactly. A classic closer, if there ever was one. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I guess we all process trauma differently. All right, you did write about Connor McDavid recently on The Ringer, and he's become, I think, a tragic figure.

I just saw somebody today inferring that maybe he's going to give the Oilers one more shot to get this thing right and then maybe you know gretsky is way out of there depending on you know what kind of model he meets i suppose um so like he's he is the best player in the world we never get to see him on the biggest stage of the world what was your what's your takeaway on mac david yeah i mean it's like he just the way you even described it just now like like there's kind of two ways to look at it in some ways he's the closest thing that hockey currently has to like the NBA, you know, kind of pre-agency

era where, you know, just the mere extrapolation of what is to come years down the road is enough for people to, you know, take the present value of that and say, well, maybe it's time to start thinking about what the next step is. And it should be that way in the sense of, like, he is the best player. He is kind of existing in this, you know, this tundra. Literally, in some ways, it's pretty pretty. Don't worry me. I've been there, but only in the summer, and it was beautiful.

But anyway, like, he also reminds me a little bit. I've been kind of, I was just down at MLB spring training, and I got to kind of, you know, reminiscing about Vladimir Guerrero Sr. And the Montreal Expos and just about how he was kind of, never, you know, in some ways his, his legend is both bolstered by and, you know, hampered by the fact that, like, a lot of people never saw him play because they didn't know a TV contract. So, you know, I don't know, in general with the Oilers, it's just really kind of mind-blowing that they are really in the, they're really in the situation that we all joked about when they got

to Connor McDavid Pick, you know, like, I still remember where I was when that happened. I was on a post at a bachelorette party. My father won the lottery and, like, I was trying to explain it to, you know, my friend, like, my ridiculous reaction. You know, all the jokes that we made then are, like, coming true. And it's just kind of, it's just amazing to see. So, wait, are you trying to tell me that it wasn't an actual part of the bachelor

party to stop and watch the NHL draft lottery? Can you imagine, like, if that was on the, done the clothes. Hey ladies, let's put on our, let's put on me trying to relate it to,

you know, it says that's the Kardashian. All right, ladies, we're going to put on our penis necklaces and then

hit the clubs, but first, let's see who wins the NHL draft lottery. It's perfect. No, but I do too

because I remember, like the, everybody remembers the look on that poor fucker's face when the oilers won the draft lottery. And again, it's like they had to immediately spin it of like, oh, no, he's not miserable about this. He's excited to be an oiler.

And at the time, we're all like, oh, this sucks. Like, they keep getting break after break after break. And this time they finally got the guy who's going to put him over the top. And they ended up messing it up. I don't know how you mess it up, but they found a way, which is incredible to me. They've almost like taken a step backwards in like a weird, yes. So, I mean, you know, as like a lover of chaos and everything, I'm like, you know, get this kid somewhere else. But, you know, obviously that's not truly in the cards, but I don't see why we can't, you know, in true NBA style just start hammering that storyline into the ground for the next, like, two years.

Oh, especially when the Rangers have so much cap room. And honestly, like, you know, let's be honest. You know this better than anybody. I mean, the Edmonton pipeline of the Rangers usually means they're going to win a cup, you know, when that starts happening. So, you know, it's never a bad thing. You were in Tampa. Conjured a stir and et cetera. Oh, exactly.

So you were in Tampa. You got to see the juggernaut. What are your thoughts on the lightning? I mean, they, like, it sounds so silly, but it really, like, watching them play, you know, especially in their power player, you know, like, you really get that kind of like, wow, this is like watching, like, the Red Army, like, just, they just are such a unit and it's kind of amazing, you know, especially as a Rangers fan to just see the Rangers pipeline, you know, in ways that are like, funny, They have two former Rangers' captains on the team, and one of them is like a healthy scratch. It's just kind of, it's just kind of a funny state of affairs. Tampa's obviously been a fun franchise that kind of made me think back to the last family cup I covered before I stopped covering hockey so much, which was Tampa, Chicago.

And I just remember, you know, them losing, and I went to losing locker room. And it was the kind of stamp coach, you know, we may never get back here again. Yeah, yeah. And since then they've had, you know, they've had last year, I think was probably more of a, almost more of a gutting experience in the sense of like that first year was all gravy. Like they didn't really expect to get to that point. Last year was more like now they're pissed off.

And so, I mean, they just, you know, they're in that situation where they lose one game and it's like everyone's trying to pick holes and everything. But they're just like cruising along. And it's just, it was really fun to see. And it's kind of fun to see, you know, John Cooper is now like a, you know, veteran coach. But, you know, still has that kind of different style that he has had all along. Well, I mean, he's Michael Keaton.

I mean, that's the thing that we all have to come back and focus on. The man looks and talks nearly exactly like if Michael Keaton was a hockey coach, and that's a beautiful thing. I've written about this before but when you cover him he is like pathologically unable to start any sort of conversation or press conference without like without like a little jab or like a little zinger like he always has to comment on something and it's just kind of funny it's like he's trying to disarm the room but it also you know I'm also like what are you so nervous about coach. So, so, so, you know, he's fun to watch,

though, and, and the team is just, like, I mean, they're just ridiculous. Like, you look at their numbers

and Kuturav, and he's, like, averaging, you know, 14 and a half percent shot percentage over his career. It's just kind of

every specific and mind-boggling when it comes to them. The thing I love about Cooper is that there are times when you're talking to him, and he makes, he,

I'm sure this, some lawyerly bullshit trick that he knows. But like he, he makes you think that your questions are the smartest questions he's ever been asked. And he gets real philosophical with things. And you come away feeling really good about life. You may not necessarily be the guy who asked the smartest question, but you feel like you did at least for that, you know, 10 or 15 minutes when you're talking to him. And that's a real, that's a real, you know, confidence booster. And I think that's why he's so well respected. it.

Yeah, I mean, he definitely knows how to work the room. And I actually, I think the answer to that is still, like, lean into it and, like, ask him philosophical questions. Like, the more open end of the better. Like, you know, coach, what do you, what have you learned? What do you consider to be new? It's like being on a date, it's like being on a date and hearing, wow, I've, I've never been told that before, or I've never looked at it that way.

You know, it's one of those aha moments and you're just like, this is love. Yeah, that's the perfect way to describe it. I couldn't say it was any better. You know, speaking of dates, this is again why I'm Captain Segway. You and I are both watching dating around on Netflix. Correct. And your thoughts? That's dating so since Joe Millionaire.

It might be. for those who don't know, so it's a show that's based in New York, so it's a lot of sort of New York restaurant porn going on. It's brilliantly shot and even better edited if you're like a cinephile. But it's one person who goes on five dates and then they pick one person to have a second date with. And they're all sexy singles in true dating show fashion. But the thing I really enjoy about the show besides the New York restaurant porn is, is the guessing game that goes on when you're watching these dates where there are moments when you're like, this will never be somebody they pick.

And there are moments in which you're like, or perhaps they'll marry them tomorrow. The ebbs and flows of that thing are very severe. I know. When you watch the first episode, you're kind of like, what is this? And then by halfway through, I was like, oh, wow, I feel like I have sat next to this Tinder date before, like, every coffee session you're going to. Yeah. But I love, yeah, like, you know, and so, you know, for better or worse, like, so that can be

really cringy or it can, I don't know, there's a lot of moments of, like, true sweetness when you're like, wow, you know, that feeling where you're just really hitting it off with someone and it's just, like, such a fun time, like, really come. through as those terrible moments where you're like, how can I extract myself from the situation? Oh, do you mean moments? Moments like where the woman says that she had to marry someone young by the rules of her religion and then having a man stand up and yell at her that he couldn't trust her and no man will ever trust her because she married someone she didn't want to marry?

You mean that awkwardness? The best part is that you, like, as a viewer, you don't even have to, you know, know, be someone who is living a life of an arranged marriage to be like, ah, yes, relatable. Right, exactly. Yeah, like, I too have been on the other end of this man. And, yeah, and then at the same time, I loved watching some of the, you know, seeing, like, the other side of things or seeing, like, the gay or lesbian relationships or even, you know, there's kind of like an older contestant and seeing, like,

the universe, you know, how universal so many things are in terms of like bad dates and good dates. But also how unique some universes are. Like the gay, the gay episode's amazing because it's a gay Asian man. And they start, he starts rapping with another gay Asian man on their date. And they're talking about shit that I would, I need a glossary for. And it was an incredible like, looking, like, you're like, did you take your Pepsit at AC today for your Asian glow? or whatever. And I'm just like, this is insane. This is like, this is almost like a sociology happening in front of my face right now.

And it was fascinating to watch. Yeah, like the, and the guy who I like would have least expected it was the one who was like, I too have dabbled in the dark arts of, you know, cross dressing. Oh, cross dressing, yeah, and drag play. Like drag queen and, you know, and I think what was the name. It was like, Queer Wang. And then, you know, and then that episode, that episode was actually the one that probably got the biggest gasp for me over who he picked because I did not see it coming. I thought I don't want to spoil it, I guess, but I was fully, I felt very assured in who I thought he was going to choose.

And I was very scared. It's a super fun show. Were you watching The Bachelor season, by the way? I am not. Don't tell my coworkers, so I'm not. I know at The Ringer It's like It has to be

Watch the Your, the Ringer.com is your home For all Bachelor coverage Including a show on Hulu That recently came out Featuring our genius Juliet Lippman

I can't say enough great things About the Ringer's coverage of the Bachelor And someday I will watch the show Well that's That's strike one Okay Are you watching the Celtics

Because that would be Strike 2 and then you're off the staff if you're not watching any of the movies that are on the rewatchables, I believe. Yeah, so I'm pretty good on rewatchable content since those movies mostly came out before I had kids

and I fell into the dog school and never seen a movie again. Also, considering the nearest movie theater to me is in Reno, Nevada. So one of these days, I'll see, you know, I'll see a movie. But, yeah, the website for Game of Thrones coming out.

also our bread and butter. And obviously the NBA playoffs is, you know, our two-month-long Super Bowl. Now, as everybody probably knows, my wife used to work for the ringer. So that's your like full- Oh, that's sweet. She'll appreciate that. That's my like full disclosure caveat thing. But you have been in the Bill Simmonsverse for a long, long time.

I can't even remember where you worked before at Grantland. It's been so long. What's that experience been like for you as a writer? Well, I mean, first of all, like, just the, his, like, he has such a track record at this point, and I'm, like, kind of a long-time example of that of just finding people and really just letting them do their weird thing and, you know, he loves to talk about, like, finding your lane and that sort of thing. but he's just such a great, like, champion as a boss. And so it's been really fun to work with him.

And, you know, like, more than anything, just I have such an appreciation, you know, I've gone on his podcast a few times. I know you've been featured on there as well. I just have such an appreciation for how good he is at doing that because it's, I think it's really hard. And he just kind of has this very unique brain that allows him to, retain and dispense information. And he combines that with also, like, you know,

having a good emotional quotient as well. And, you know, just being a good boss. And, you know, he's exactly the way he is in his writing and on his show, which I think is harder to do than people probably would give credit for. I also always appreciated the fact, not only the fact that he would promote new writers and try to create, more conversations involving different voices. But I've always appreciated the fact that there's a lot of really dumb shit topics that Grantland

and the Ringer cover, but they cover it in such a unique and smart way. It's like exactly what pop culture should be, which is that it takes the shared experiences of everybody watching the VMAs or something. And then it offers a take that is actually feeding your brain rather than, and being just, you know, the best and worst of blah, blah, blah, which I always appreciated. Yeah, I mean, I think, like, so much of it is almost using the evolving way that we've been covering sports as, like, a model for covering entertainment, which is, like, this should

be fun, but also it can be serious without, like, it doesn't have to be, like, totally ironic to be serious, but it also can be really rinsical and funny and, like, you know, obsessive. I think it's kind of like, you know, whenever, like with any subject when you're writing something, if you can think about, like, okay, let's pretend I have two people reading this, and one of them knows everything there is to know about the subject. And the other knows nothing about the subject. Like, you know, obviously not every time you're going to write to both of them. But I think there's like a cool way to do it where you can write to both people at the same time. And I think, like, a lot of our entertainment coverage is that, you know, it's got almost like Easter.

eggs for the real ones. And then also I can, you know, I can come along and read it and understand it. And I think that's actually like perfectly describes both of our writing in a lot of ways, you and I. I mean, for me, like, that's how I had to write at Yahoo in order to get anything on the front page of the site. And getting something on the front page of the site would be the difference between, like, our traffic for the month being up or down because that was how much traffic we got from

it. And at ESPN, it's kind of the same thing where, you know, I understand, you know, where hockey is right now in the pecking order, it's climbing, which is awesome, and there's games, which is awesome. And there's definitely an uptick in traffic and interest since Emily and I got there. But I know inherently that if somebody sees a link to something on the front page of ESPN.com and they click it, I better be able to kind of inform those people as to what I'm writing about while also, like you said, kind of winking at the camera to the people that I know are reading me anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, I think that's always been, like, I don't know, you've used this, comparison before, such as hockey with, like, there's sort of an indie music, you know, vibe to it in the sense of the universal, like, please like my sport, slash, like, I don't want anyone else to know about my sport. So, I mean, you're, you know, the television that you're in, you're always, like, walking out, you know, you've spent a lifetime walking that line. It's, it's not, it's not always a fun one.

And you know, as a fan, like, that's, like, that's a fan, like, that's, always been one of the big problems with fans here in the States is that, you know, there's always that dance we have to do when we do meet somebody who hopped on the bandwagon, which is, okay, how much do you know and how much should you know? And, you know, are you a real fan and this sort of thing? It's a default setting for a lot of us, and it ends up being the most exclusionary bullshit thing that we could possibly do, these tests that we apply to people. But it's sort of inevitable because of that sort of indie music approach. I mean, we're a bunch of pitchfork snobs at the end of the day when it comes to our sport. 90s use net, you know, typeers or contributors.

So, you know, you're never going to get that out of us. But, you know, it's a pain. That's why there's certain teams and players where, like, you know, I love seeing the captain OV win the cup because I just, it's great. Like, anybody can kind of, enjoy that and you know, Cats fans at that point are just are just so delirious with happiness that they're not going to go too closely as he was celebrating alongside them.

You know, that was a pretty good piece scenario for the league. Yeah, and the Caps are an interesting bandwagon test case, right? Because like, that was almost the team that was like, yeah, open up the bandwagon, add a second deck to the bandwagon. Like, they were very much

sort of in a place of nobody really giving a shit about that franchise until Lavechkin arrived. And then when he did, it just became a party. And living in D.C. at the time, yeah, there were some people that would walk around and their Peter Bondi jerseys and be like, you know, fuck these newbies. But there were more people that were just like, this is awesome. Like I remember when the cap center was a mortuary.

And now you can't get a ticket to these games. And it was sort of a very welcoming and party vibe with that team that I don't think exists in a lot of other places. Yeah. I mean, they also kind of had like a minor bandwagon, like, high watermark, you know, kind of in the early Ovi era where, you know, there was almost the jokes about everyone rock in the red and whatever. And then that went kind of, you know, subsided a little bit. And I just felt like by the time I came back, like, they'd already kind of like gotten all that, like, that necessary part of the narrative was, like, already past news. They were able to celebrate a true Russian hero.

A true Russian hero, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Silver Fox scores goals, starts Vladimir Putin fan clubs on Instagram. Like, he's all about just all of it. He's the legend. I wanted to ask you about another legend, because you have defended this man through the years, to me included. where do you stand on John Tortorella these days? It's, you know, it's just like, I always think this time he's going to be different.

And I guess you just can't, you know, you can't fix a man. But, you know, you see him like answering the reporter's cell phone on the podium and like, he'll make it up. It's his mom or whatever. And then he's talking about, you know, his players like healthy or you know injured scratch and talking about like his biological um you know I don't know if I can curse on this show like you of course you can pants shedding and oh yeah shitting torts this is great I you know love this guy what a free spirit um and then you start

to think about you know who else we used to love because he was a free spirit um and he just you know I was kind of thinking about, like, what, like, what the outcomes are going to be for Columbus in the sense of they either make the playoffs or they don't. If they don't make the playoffs, it seems to me, like, they may go a different direction. They almost will feel like they have to. I mean, maybe not. But if they make the playoffs, like, are they, they're just going to be mince meet for the Tampa Bay Lightning or something? Like, where does that leave them? That's kind of the biggest question, I guess.

And then, I guess the other outcome is that they, you know, sweep their way into an exciting, you know, Eastern Congress final or something. But, you know, most of those circumstances kind of point to maybe just being another stuff on the road for John Tortorella. I don't know. What have you seen? Have you seen any reason to think that he's different this time? No. Well, here's the thing.

Like, I feel like he's different overall. because, you know, after leaving the Rangers for Vancouver, that went, you know, disastrously. And I think he got help. And I think he mellowed a little bit. He's not as volcanic as he used to be. That could be old age or it could be just, you know, he kind of addressed some of his issues. I think he's sort of become, he's gone from being a complete asshole to being a curmudgeon. Like he's David Letterman, if David Letterman had Seth Meyer's rating.

Like, he's not that successful now, but he's become sort of a delightful curmudgeon in a way that I don't think he was when he was, you know, chewing out reporters and acting like a dick. Yeah. I mean, the one thing that, like, I haven't even, like, dug into the numbers to see if this is true or not, but, like, almost the most concerning thing that I recently kind of caught wind of when it came to him was that he was still, he's still really. on that shot block life. He's so longed all his guys. Some of those bodies in front of the... Oh, yeah. Gotta block the shots.

He's running Marion Gabbard to block shots. Oh, yeah. That was almost the thing where I was like, wait, towards, really, man? Like, we're still on this. Even more so than any of the kind of like, you know, abrasive personality disorders or, you know, that he may have.

So if that's the case, that's a little more concerning because that's like a real, sign of, you know, lack of evolution. All right. Finally, I wanted to bring up somebody that I know is near and dear to your heart, Mike Francesa. Do you keep up with the current incarnation of Mike Francesa, the dottering control freak who's about to be defeated in the ratings by Michael K.

Or do you choose to remember Mike Francesa in his, his most full. formed and beloved role as a co-host with Christopher Mad Dog Russo on WFAN. It just all happened so fast. One minute, I was writing some of the most heartfelt words in my life about, you know, a king tribute to a legend, to a king, to a pope, to whatever manner of, like, deity. One, you know, deals in front of. And then the next minute, I'm, like, I'm sitting here thinking about how I really need to, like, for once in my life, like, cancel a subscription because I'm throwing $9 away. Hold on, hold on, hold on a second. Hold on a second.

$8.99. Is this, is this an admission that you subscribe to the Mike Francesa app? So I, I subscribe to the app in a kind of, it was like a Monday. night football. I was, you know, I had a blog post for the ringer. I was like, you know, they tweeted that Mike was going to give his post game thoughts, like exclusively to app subscribers. I thought maybe this could be some material for my piece, subscribed. I don't even think I even listened to the, his thoughts that night, nor have I ever opened the app since. So that's my experience with the mics on app. And if you haven't already, I urge you to Google it and just look at

a glorious website that they've built. It's obviously extremely bespoke website that was built for the purposes of this app. And yeah, it's really weird to see what has like, like, it's not like anything about him has appreciably changed, but everything around him has changed so much that it's hard to even, like, interact with him the way I used to. This is amazing. I wasn't sure if we'd make news during this interview, but finding the person, who subscribe to the Mike Francesa app

other than like John Minko is pretty incredible to me and I'm happy that I discovered it but yeah you should probably cancel it if you're not using it. That's right. But yeah, I mean it's like the O'Dell Beck of Junior trade

just happened and you know no one is happier than Mike because he's you know he's been on the anti-Odel train for a while now just totally predictable and totally annoying. You know, the same was true, I think, with Prasenghis. It was a very quick, he was very quick to say goodbye and to, you know, announce that he kind of foresaw this happening.

So, you know, he's really, he's really been his old self. It's just that I'm not, you know, his old self is not to be consumed in a new frankly form, such as an app. Clearly, clearly a man of his time. And not a man of the future. Katie, you are the best. I miss seeing you on the road for hockey things. Hopefully you get to go to something this year.

And where can people find your work? You can find it on theringer.com alongside much better work from all my wonderful colleagues in both written and podcast and video form. Again, that's theringer.com. I just remembered that I believe one of the last times we were together was when we went to that McDonald's in Washington, D.C., and there was a guy with like an AK-47 guarding the McDonald's. Is that true? Am I remembering that right? I do have big memories of being of a McDonald's and Washington, D.C., and perhaps even in AK-47. So the fact that they're all in the same place makes a lot of sense. All right. Thanks, Katie. Our thanks to Katie Baker of The Ringer. You can check out all her stuff at The Ringer.

That's right.com. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of where she is. She's brilliant, and I'm so happy that we had her on. She's great. And I hope that she does do a little traveling for the playoffs. Because, like I said to her, I think the last time I saw her, we were in Washington, D.C. at a McDonald's where there was a guy with an AK-47 guarding the counter, which is exciting.

Cool. It felt like we were in... Very normal country. Yeah, I mean, you know, it is D.C. Things do get dicey around the arena at night. But I felt like I was in Fallujah. But if you want to go visit that McDonald's or really any McDonald's around any arena in the country,

there's only one way to do it, baby. And that's what's Seek! Getting tickets online too far. I feel like to lay into McDonald's without a ticket. Well, I mean, McDonald's buy the arena. If you wanted to go to it and then go see a game, which to me is the perfect extra value meal. The quintessential McDonald's experience.

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That's how I find my tickets to stuff. And right now, we are in the exploratory period to try to find tickets. It's that Lady Gaga Vegas show. And we're looking at it every day. And we're waiting for that green circle to get greener. It's not getting greener. No. Best of all, listeners to fuck Steve can get $10 off their first C-Kkeek purchase.

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Hey, if you like Puck Soup and you want to help us out, two things occur to me. One, we have the same theme song. that we had in version 1.0. So if somebody wanted to be, like, proactive and make a new theme song that involves me and Ryan and Sean,

that'd be cool. But also, this segment we're about to do, I think probably also requires a jingle. Oh, I don't know. And there's not one. Now, I've been noodling through a jingle for Dinosaur Corner. And I think, I think it may involve me singing a song to the Jurassic Park theme.

So I might take a first pass at it at some point. Okay. I've definitely put lyrics to the Jurassic Park. I remember being drunk in Boston with my friends, Andy and Norrie, walking around. And we did an entire sort of like mini musical set to the John Williams, Jurassic Park theme about how dinosaurs became birds, which I know isn't, I mean, is kind of true or not true, I forget. No, it's 100% true. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. So I might take a first pass, but if you've got a killer dinosaur corner track or a new theme song for the podcast, by all means, tweet it at Puck Suit podcast on Twitter or just like you can find my email in some way, shape, or form and reach out that way. And we will definitely, anything we get, we're definitely going to play. And then if it's good enough, it would then become the official theme song. And will there be monetary compensation? No. But I could probably give you a copy of my book or any of our books. Or like Ryan can send you an autograph copy of an album he doesn't listen to anymore.

Like there's tons of possibilities. I will sign a military test edition Bible, just for you. Right on the cover. Big R.L. Right there. You'll love it. that may be like that that might be the best thing that ever happened that Donald Trump signed a military Bible on the cover just the big stupid guy the best thing I ever heard about that was like the people that were tweeting like he used the same hand that he signed a checks to a pornography star to sign a Bible I'm like yeah but in fairness it's probably also the hand he jerks off with So, I mean, you know, it all is kind of relative.

Sign in Bible, baby. Oh, man. Anyway. But, you know, I don't think there's, I don't think there's anything wrong with people sign in Bibles. I once had Ken Campbell autograph a copy of the hockey news for me. My Bible. Come on, Greg. I can't.

All right. Dinosaur Corner this week. Someone sent this to me. Someone sent it to me. it was an article about like scientists say they're five years away from uh from you know recreating dinosaur or whatever whatever the exactly hold on hold on hold on hold on recreating or cloning cloning or recreating well so and Greg this is the real issue here isn't it that um first of all I think it was because like Jeff Goldblum like saw that headline and

tweeted out you know you didn't stop to think you could if you should. And first of all, ooze and ahs and ahs. And then there's a running and a scream. Yeah, the pirates or curbing and don't eat the tourists. We all saw the movie. Several hundred times, I bet.

Maybe that's just me. But, yeah, so first of all, this is a story that came out in 2015. Piss me off then, pissing me off now. Because you can't clone dinosaurs. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the big one is DNA has a half-life of 5,000, 6,000 years, something like that. So any DNA that would have existed from even the latest existing dinosaur, 65 million, 66 million years ago, probably not going to... Now, according to my church, that's not true.

Well, sure. that we humans had dinosaur friends. And so, I mean, it's plausible then. Yeah, they help build the pyramids, is that right? And one of them would always, like, do a take to camera and say, it's a living? Is that right? You know, that's really kind of, I don't appreciate you besmirching my religion. Of course, they helped create the hanging gardens of Babylon, not the pyramids.

Sure. Wrong wonder of the world, sir. Okay. I apologize. guys. But yeah, so if you actually, first of all, it's not possible to clone dinosaurs. We also don't really know how to do cloning in an egg. We can only do like a in-utero cloning right now, science-wise. Oh, okay. So you have to play, Francis Farmer will have a revenge on Seattle as loudly as possible, and then the egg becomes a clone dinosaur. The in-euro.

That is not a reference, I get, but. It's a Nirvana song for God's sakes. Oh, I see. Yeah, okay, I get it now. Yep, sorry, folks. You know, like, Nirvana, that band that they play when you meet the Supreme Intelligence in the Netherworld or wherever in Captain Marvel. Okay, we can talk about that in a minute. annoying movie. So, the other thing with this is they're trying to, like, if you actually read the article, what they're trying to do is they're trying to reverse engineer, like, chickens so that they,

look more like dinosaurs. They're less feathery. They have longer tails, that kind of thing. So they're not... And first of all, like, so that's misleading in and of itself, right? That seems to me like when you would go to come see the terrifying two-headed dog at this freak show at the turn of the century. Like how Ringling Brothers had the unicorn, but it was like a goat with a mishish... That's exactly right.

Right. Okay. Yeah, that's exactly right. Or like if you paint and strife. on a zebra or something. Wait, why would you paint stripes on a zebra? On a regular horse. Greg, I'm really upset right now thinking about...

You would paint stripes on a zebra than then make it a horse. Just to make it a solid color? Stupid ass. Oh, man, I'm dumber than shit. Okay, well, anyway, so the real... The real... So they're just basically trying to make a fucked up chicken, and they can't even do it. They can't even do it.

That's the thing. They're like, oh, scientists say we're five years away. Well, it, you know, it's, they, they wanted to have this shit done by 2020. We're getting to the middle of 2019, folks. I haven't heard an update yet. And even if they do have an update, where are you going to, like, they're just going to be, it feels like they're just going to be like gluing cardboard teeth to a chicken's beak and going, eh, what do you think?

Okay, but in fairness, though, like, if you are turning chickens into dinosaurs, which they are not, exponential. eventually increases the chances of your boy being able to go to like jack in the box here in California and get myself a Bronto burger, Bonnie? How great is that going to be? No, I mean, it's different, obviously, kind of situation with, uh, bron. We, we only have, like, uh, avian dinosaurs, you know, you ever hear about these guys? Avian dinosaurs is what we call birds.

Right, but like, they're clear, I mean, like, when I look at a chicken. You're already eating dinosaur every day when you look at a chicken. When I look at a chicken, and I look in a chicken's eyes, I see a child's smile. But that's besides the point. Because of all of God's creatures, the whole thing. Oh, sure. Yeah. That's not true.

I look at a chicken, and I have that moment where you're on a desert island and you look at your friend and he becomes that roast chicken. I look at a chicken and the chicken becomes a roast chicken. Oh. Right. I look at a chicken. He becomes a roast chicken. It's a very, very complicated bit of cannibalism. Now listen, when I look at a chicken, I think to myself, that's a velociraptor, right?

Basically? Yeah, more or less, roughly the same size. Right. So, I mean, that's the kind of dinosaur that we'd be trying to create by mutating chickens, as little tiny velociraptors, which then reminds me of that scene in JP3, where the little girls on the beach vacationing with her parents, they take the little boat from their yacht to the beach on Ilsa Sonar, I believe it, or Nublar, one of the two, one of the hillsies.

And she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, fron around the beach and she's having a good time. And all of a sudden, those little dinosaurs come over and they eat the little girl. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so that to me, if you make little baby raptors out of chickens, they're going to be like those little fuckers. And who's going to want to go to the beach anymore? I mean, I don't want to go to the beach now.

So this is just further. Mm-hmm. That's where sharks live. Mm-hmm. That's true. That's very true. Also in San Jose. Amber had a question for Dinosaur Corner. Okay. Does everyone agree now that the T-Rex had feathers? If so, how fluffy was he? Like, was he a little fluffy or a puffed-up bird in the snow fluffy? So, I mean, we don't... It is generally agreed that most, you know, two-legged theropod dinosaurs would have been pretty covered in feathers

the later into the development of... Like, the closer you get to human beings, the more feathers there are on dinosaurs, generally speaking. Theropod dinosaurs only not sauropods. Obviously. I mean, God, would it be amateurs? Yeah, no.

And so there is some debate as to whether, you know, they would have kept a pretty large amount of feathers their whole lives or whether it was just when they were very young. T-Rex is an exceptionally rare dinosaur to find their fossils. And certainly, you know, it's always rare to find, you know, skin impressions, feather impressions, things like that in the fossil record as well. So when you combine those two facts, you'd basically be doing a lot of conjecture about the

Tyrannosaurus rex. It's cousins, though, like the Uterianists, discovered in China about a decade ago, I feel like. It's not like feathers like you would think of, like a chicken has feathers or a hawk has feathers. They're more like feather-like coverings that aren't more, I guess you'd say, sparse. Right, sparse, yeah. If you want to learn more about this, the American Museum of Natural History in New York City right now, today. Right here. Right now.

I think it opened this week. Has a brand new exhibit on the Tyrannosaurus Rex, the greatest predator of all time. Some sort of a subtitle like that. I can't wait for the college hockey season to end, so I can go there. With due respect to David Legwond, who is. the greatest predator of all time. Now listen, as you know, Wilma used to use a little tiny dinosaur as a vacuum. I believe she used a bird as a feather duster. Are you saying that we could use any dinosaur as a feather duster given their feather quality? No. In fact, I just said the

opposite. They don't have the kind of feathers that you think of... It's far as to be a feather duster. Yeah. A lot of them, for example, again, like to circle back to the uteranus, its feathers look more like like big thick hair than feathers. Is the abbreviation of the uteranus, UTI? Do we go, do we say that to remember its name? No, it's all one word. It's Y, U-T-Y-R-A, and U-S. Okay, got you. Well, that's interesting. If Dumbo had a T-Rex feather in his trunk, could he fly? Or does it need to be like a bird feather?

No, he needs some racist birds to tell him how to do it. That's honestly, that's honestly the thing I am most interested in in the Tim Burton Dumbo remake is what do we do with the racist birds? They should replace them with like people doing Dave Chappelle white guy voice. Well, it's Tim Burton, so it's entirely possible that they'll just be, you know, hell on a bottom card. It's just four Johnny Depp's in a hell on bottom. It's right. It's Johnny Depp twice. It's Johnny Depp is two different birds.

It sucks. Tim Burton's so bad, dude. Oh, fight your tongue. Tim Burton has. at least five. When's the last good Tim Burton movie? When's the last good Tim Burton movie? 1994? When did Edward come out? You know, God damn it. Now you're making me go on the thing. Hang on. I'll find it. Okay.

Tim Burton. I. MDB. and Tim Burton, the films of Tim Burton. Okay, here we go. Tim Burton, of course, as you know, a famous director, 38, credits for Tim Burton. Too many. Okay, Dumbo, we haven't seen yet. Miss Paragreens's home for peculiar children? No. He directed at sucks.

It was terrible. Even worse somehow. No. Frank and Weeny, no. Dark Shadows was terrible. Alice in Wonderland was terrible. Oh, here you go. Sweeney Todd.

Greg. 2007, Sweeney Todd. Be serious. Sweeney Todd's a good movie. Come on. It's a good... If you're talking about... A good movie that qualifies as a good movie.

If you're talking about a great movie, obviously you have to go a little back to 1996 as Mars attacks. And even then. I mean, but say what you will, though. Give me a three movie run like Beetlejuice Batman and Edward Scissor Hands. And then Batman returns in Ed Wood if you want to extend it out to five. I don't know. Just about any three Cohen Brothers movies. Any three. Pick three.

I'm glad you and I agree that Ed Wood is the pinnacle, though. It's the best. I watch it every year. Absolutely. I find it to be inspiring. If you've never seen it, do you see it? It's fantastic. All right.

Before we get some more movie shit, you wanted to talk about NHL Award stuff is what you told me. Yeah, I did. We already kind of touched on it. I feel like there's a lot of races that are just pretty much slam dunks this. year, don't you? Like Vasilleski for the Vezna? See, that's one of the ones I don't think is a slam dunk, because I think a lot of, I think a lot of GMs will probably ding him for playing on such a good team, whereas

other goalies like Ben Bishop's having an unbelievable year. Maybe John Gibson's hanging around in the convo, but I think that was at this point. The only other guy that I think is going to win other than Vaselowski is Freddie Anderson. And I think that the GMs are going to look at Toronto having. games like they had, you know, defensive efforts like they had last night. And they're going to say that Freddie Anderson has done such heavy lifting for them. I think he's the guy that might be able to usurp Vasilewski for that award. But the guy, I mean, at the end of the day, the guy who maybe should win is Bishop.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think you can make a real argument for Bishop in a way that you can't with even Freddie Anderson. Right. Oh, I think you can make a case for Freddie. Anderson, Lickety split. Well, no, like, I can't, I think you can make a case that he's top three. I don't think you can make a case that he should win ahead of Vasilevsky and Bishop.

Like, I think he's, I think he's definitely top three, but I think it's one of those two. But the other thing I wanted to talk about is, uh, Sydney Crosby hit 90 points the other night. Hold on. Can I just say something right now? Okay. Yep. Your argument is backed up by the number is that Ben Bishop, right now is a goal saved above average of 27

and Freddie Anderson is second with 19 Yeah, it's a huge gap. Yeah, and then I think Vasel, where the hell is Vaselisky on this list? He's probably in the eight and nine. Oh, no, no, Vaselowski actually is, he's better than both of them. He's got a, he's got a 31, 31 goals saved above average. So he should still be the, I think he should win the best. Okay, so, but, but the difference is above average versus above expected for me.

Right? Because I would imagine that he's facing a lot fewer expected goals, although Tampa's not great defensively. But I would bet he's facing fewer expected goals than, say, Bishop or Anderson's. I think that's entirely possible. But I also think that he's been great. Maybe I'll just write about this today, Greg. Jesus. I don't know. Now, now the other, the other intrigue, obviously, is the Norris, I mean, I think it's going to be true. A couple weeks ago, it should be, I think it should be Gerdano. But I can see where they maybe give it to Burns again because he's been so good this year. He's got the numbers and he's got the narrative.

And much like Oscar loves, much like Oscar loves an ingenue, Norris loves a new, a newbie to win the Norris. Yeah, I think I think that's a very good pick. He should have two already, quite frankly. But, you know. So that's a slam down. Yeah, I think so. But people are really starting to talk about, like, well, what if Jordan Bittington is rookie of the year? And it's like, well, first of all, his save percentage isn't going to hold up for the last 12 games of the season.

But second of all, like, you're fucking overthinking it if you're trying to talk yourself into somebody other than Pedersen being the rookie of the year. Pedersen is going to be like, I have to see what his numbers are recently. But like, he was point per game last time. He's above a point of game still, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, what is this nonsense? Bittington's going to be a finalist. That's fine. Oh, 100%.

You could demonstrably say he's been one of the best rookies, but he doesn't have the work rate that Pedersen does. And Pedersen was even injured this year. And the other thing, too, is that, like, I wonder how much this rocket to the stars is going to fizzle when Jake Allen takes the crease back by April. Because it's starting to happen. That's what I'm saying. Bittington is like a career average

AHL goalie who came in and again, just like Devin Dubnick got super hot for two months, got the team back into a playoff race, and now he's turning back into a career average HL goalie. Because he's like 20, he's at that, he's at that

shit, who was it? A few years ago there was a rookie who was like, but does he even? really a rookie because he's like 29 years old. Who was that? You know what I mean? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Because Benington's pushing 26.

Like, he's not young. He's been an A.H.L. goalie for a long time. He's still under the Makarov rule, I think. Right. No, yeah, because I think you can't be 26 is the rule. Right, right. By a certain date, and he's not.

You make a good point on that one. The real intrigue for me, because Pedersen's going to win the Calder. I imagine, I hope that Mark Stone wins the Selke, but it'd probably be Bergeron, even though it shouldn't because he doesn't have the games. And then, you know, the Jack Adams, I talked about before. The heart's the real interesting one, because, you know, Kutrov's going to win it. I don't think it is. No, no, no, no, no. No, Kutrov's going to win it in a walk.

Come on. You think so? You really think so? I don't know. I think if this cat ends up with over a hundred. If he ends up with over 120 points, like there's no argument you could make that you can't give it to him. Like you gave it to Joe Thornton for the same reason,

and he didn't even play with the sharks the full season that year. I understand. So the argument that I have seen, and I got blocked by making fun of Mike Tracos for this, is, well, look, you know, Crosby's worked his way into the MVP conversation because he's up to 90 points. And it's like, well, he's 20. anyone back of Kuturov.

And the argument is that Krosby's doing it playing with two bums and Kutrov is playing with two borderline all-stars. And, you know, Krosby has a better defensive game. He's on a worst team, all that kind of stuff. And, like, I get it. And if you want to say he's the second best player in the league this year, absolutely. But Kutrov's going to hit 130 fucking points. So what are we talking about?

Yeah. And, like, I understand that Braden Point's not a bum, but I also understand that Brayden point at this. juncture of the season is going to end up with maybe 25 more points than he had last season. And I have a feeling that Nikita Kuturov may have influenced that in some way to perform. For sure. For sure. But but so the, and this is the thing I said that really is probably what got me blocked. If, if Nikita Kuturov is Nick Kutrov from Etobico, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and Sydney Krosby is Sidney Krovsky.

from Magnitagorsk, we're not having this fucking conversation. It is a fucking miracle that Alex Ovechkin won as much hardware as he has. It really is. It is an absolute miracle that that's happened. And I think it's a testament to how good Alex is, is that he's forced people to accept him as one of the greatest players of all time despite the fact that he's Russian. And the default setting of Canadian writers to never put the Russian over the Canadian.

I completely agree with you. Sid should be a finalist. He's easily top three. The real question for me is whether they're going to put Canaan. Because last year, the only reason I think Conner didn't make the top three, despite the logical reaction to the Hart Trophy, that you shouldn't put somebody who's outside the playoffs in the top three, is because Hall, McKinnon, and Copatar all had the same thing going on,

which was that they were exponentially better than everybody else in their team. Yeah, they drag shit teams kicking and screaming to the playoffs. Yeah. Right. And the gap in points between them and the next highest score was palpable. It was like over 20 in some cases, over 30, I think, in one case. You don't have the same thing this year with a guy like Johnny Goodrow. And you don't have the same thing this year.

Well, what about Connor then? Why wouldn't it be Connor for three? He's past 100 points already. I wonder if this is garbage. One, because I feel like there has been more written about the job that Kane has done. and Kane might be that guy who's exponentially better than his teammates. I think Connor obviously is going to, Connor's never going to have the point gap with dry saddle on his team

that Patrick Kane's going to have with the other guys on his team. I think there's the perception that with 41 goals, Kane's done more heavy lifting. I'll tell you who does have a gap is Ovechkin. Ovechkin has more than double the goals of the next guy on the capitals. And I'm going to be really intrigued. Yeah, I'm going to be really intrigued to see. I think it'll be Sid and I think it'll be Coutcherat.

And I'm dying to see if they're going to put Kane in there or Connor in there or if it's going to be Ovechkin or even Goodrow, who obviously, you know, 90 points in the 70 games should probably be in the conversation, but maybe won't be just because of the star power of the other guys in the conversation. Yeah, you know, I think, again, if you're going to talk about Crosby plays with Bums, Kane spent all year playing with DeBren. and taves, right? Like, or, you know, one of the two, sometimes both of them. And that's going to help, right? Like, I think the reason there's such a big gap is because he's kind of split his time between two different guys who are really good. If you factor him to Prinket at 0.99, for the guys that have played 65 or more games

this season, 30 of them are over a point per game this year. That's got to be more than last year. Let me double check last year. Give me an hour. I'm on at NHEL.com. Give me an hour to figure out. Let's see here. Last year there was 20.

So we've got 10 more point per game guys this year than we had last year. That's crazy. That's an increase of 50%, Greg. I'm not good with numbers. Okay. That's right. All right. Listen, before we get to the pop culture part of the show, the real pop culture part of the show, the spoiler part of the show,

we should do the question today. just so people don't, like, if you want to duck out before the Captain Marvel talk, because it's going to be... You can bail on the Captain Marvel talk. Well, no, no, no, it's not that I want you to bail, because it's obviously going to be the most intelligent Captain Marvel conversation you're going to hear. I just know that people are wary of spoilers. A lot of people have seen the film in the first weekend. No, that's what I mean. Yeah, like, feel free. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't bail because it's bad. Bail because, you know, you want to be unspoiled for it. All right. So the question of the week this week was, in keeping with the Marvel theme, there was new Avengers Endgame trailer that came. out just before the podcast. We're going to watch that in real time in a moment or two. If you could Thanos snap one team from the playoff picture, who would it be? Marcus Nice writes in, as someone from Montreal, I don't know what I enjoyed, what I'd enjoy more. The Leaf's not making the playoffs and getting Thanos snapped or getting gut punched out of the

first round. I would imagine that if you were a Montreal fan, you would probably want the gut punch of the Boston Bruins in the first round against the Leafs because, like, then all, now it was, like, if they win in five games and they just beat the piss out of Toronto, then you're going to have this gigantic crisis of conscience in Toronto about what they should do to fix the team. It's going to be like Team Canada losing in juniors. So if you're somebody who wants maximum pain for that franchise, have them play the fucking Bruins.

Can I say what my answer is? Go ahead. Tampa. because then it's interesting, right? Like, it's not really interesting right now. But, boy, Tampa's out. Any one of these teams could do it. I disagree, man.

I find it extraordinarily interesting with Tampa in it because I don't believe, I mean, I don't believe in juggernauts. Like, I mean, I want to believe. I'm like, you know, the kid in Ben. Right. So, like, it's not quite like, what are we even doing the playoffs for? Just give the Warriors the. trophy, right? It's not that bad, but it's pretty close. Yeah, because I mean, it like,

like the entire Eastern Conference just feels like, okay, who gets to lose to Tampa next? Yeah, I know. Three rounds in a row. It sucks. I agree. But I think that you also have this thing where it's like, you know, a hot goal that you can change a series, an injury can change a series. Like, I think there's a lot of factors in the Stanley Cup playoffs that exist to make it really, really hard for teams to just roll through. That's why President's trophy winners never win. So I wouldn't snap them out because I actually think that they add more drama to the playoffs than other teams would. And look, nothing would make me happier than if they just won 16 games straight and we all got out of the playoffs nice and early. It's like late May.

Ooh, that would be so good. They win the cup on Memorial Day. Oh, hell yeah. Sam Walc Wright's in Pittsburgh. I feel like they've made their quote of this decade. Pat Clark also says Pittsburgh. We want Columbus to make it, and Crosby, Malcon, and Co. need a year off in time to convince Jim Rutherford to stop giving this club the Carolina treatment. Rich Duncan says it's a little petty, but I'd say Columbus.

I'd hate to see that sign a bunch of free agents when you're a bubble team GM tactic rewarded and then emulated. Well, they traded for him. They didn't sign them. Nils Norling says the Blue Jackets. I'm a senator's fan. I need at least a tiny something out of this awful year. and Sage Firth writes in the wild because watching them lose in the

first round is like watching a Groundhog Day starring Ned Ryerson. And then Tyler McGillick writes in the Minnesota Wild. They're the most vanilla team year after year that I literally forget they exist half the time. I'd much rather watch a different team in the playoff series. Yeah, it's like

Falcon getting snapped by Thanos, really when you think about it. Right, nobody cares. Tideous, boring, nobody cares character. Michael Holm writes in Winnipeg because there isn't a more boring team in the league. They're the Kauai Leonard of the NHL. These are some good answers so far, man. Finally, Bonanza,

Bonzana, Bonz, Zazzo. Fuck it. New York Islanders, because whoever they're playing will be the most boring series in the playoffs. Barry Trots is better known than any player on the team. And yes, I am aware of Matt Barzell. So there you go. Okay, so Captain Marvel Time, spoiler talk in three, two, one. I very much like the movie.

It reminded me of the first Thor and the first Captain America. It's like a Marvel 1.0 type of movie, which I feel like the stakes have been raised so much by the really, really good movies that they're not allowed to make this anymore. But they made one, and I was entertained by it. Will I ever need to, like, make time to revisit it? like I do the better Marvel movies? No. Will I watch it if it's on cable? Like Ant Man? Probably. I was entertained by it.

And to be honest with you, like I feel like that there is a certain emotional heft to this movie that people completely are not giving it credit for. Like when she sits down with her friend at her dinner table in Louisiana. I thought that was a really touching moment. and the end, the big finale where she overcomes Annette Benning's power hand lasers or whatever, I thought it was a really nice moment too. I thought it was a mid-tier Marvel movie, just like perfectly fine, you know, nothing bad about it. But nothing where I was like, oh, that kicked ass. That was so cool. which, you know, happens occasionally in these movies.

I just, I thought Bree Larson was flat. Like maybe on purpose since she was playing like an amnesiac or whatever. Sam Jackson was very fun, I felt like. He was great. But like, it was one of those movies where if you didn't see the quote unquote twist coming, I'm going to say one second into the film. Hold on. Now, which twist are you talking about?

Because there's one twist that I didn't see. Yeah. For sure. And not only being the bad guy, but being sort of the next in the line of Cree fascists, basically. Yeah. Like we saw with Ronan the Accuser and Guardians. But the thing I liked about the flick was that there were a number of different twists. Like having Annette Benning being Marvell, I thought it was a really good twist on the origin story.

And then the stuff with the scroll. was fucking fantastic. It was fantastic what they did with the scrolls. Yeah, I thought that was good of like saying, you know, actually we're in oppressed people and all that kind of stuff. But hold on. Let me stop you there. As a bleeding heart, weren't you impressed that they made a refugee allegory out of a

Captain Marvel movie? Yeah, no. It was like a real Israel-Palestine kind of a thing, right? Like, oh, I'm not supposed to say that. but but no I liked that angle of it for sure

here's the thing I thought was weird Ben Mendelso played both the scrawl guy and the boss at shield and it's like well that doesn't make sense like I was very confused by that

because I was like I thought Ben Mendelsohn was the scrawl but here he is as the guy and then he was the scrawl and it's like but how he was But that's supposed to tip you off that guy was actually a scroll. That's your little Easter egg for the audience.

No, no, no, no. But like, wait, that guy was a scroll the whole time? No, it just, hold on. That's what I'm saying. That was what was confusing. Ben Mendelsso is playing an FBI guy who happens to look like Ben Mendelso. Like, it's, you're overthinking it. You're allowing him to play a role that's, so he could play it without the makeup on.

Sure. But the twist. was incredible because the scrolls in the comics are obviously like, you know, frequently villains, secret invasion, the whole thing. And to have him, he's the funniest guy in the movie. He's probably the best actor in the movie. It also subverts what we know about Ben Mendelsohn at this point where he played the heavy in the heavy in Dark Night Rises and played the heavy in Ready Player One. And so you're ready for him to do it again. And then they subvert that, which is genius.

I think the two things about the movie that are kind of lingering with me. One is that the best moments of the movie are character-based. Yes. And I think that very much speaks to them hiring the two people who did, you know, half Nelson and Mississippi Grind to direct the movie is that it felt the best moments of the movie are the quietest moments. And that's kind of hard to wrap your brain around that after, you know, seeing other Marvel movies, but those are my favorite ones. Those are the ones that are going to stick around.

Every scene that happened in that house in Louisiana was fucking fantastic. And to speak to your point about Brie Larson, Ruby's biggest problem with Captain Marvel was her. And she's like, she's miscast. And I'm like, well, who would you cast instead of her? I'm like, would you cast like Blake lively? And she's like, no, she can't act. I think we settled on somebody who, if she was Captain Marvel, this movie might have been a

better movie, which is. is Emily Blunt. Like if Emily Blunt was cast in this, as a blonde, like, it probably would have been a better flick. And by the way, I love Brie Larson. I think she's a phenomenal actress. But yeah, I just, like, I feel, I feel like, because she's so engaging in other stuff and so, like, kind of lively for her to be flat like this, that had to have been a choice because, again, like... It had to be choice. Yeah. But, like, it was a bad choice, I feel like. It's a bad choice, and it's a bad choice, and it's a

choice to have this be an origin story, but you don't know fucking shit about the character at the end of the movie. That's the real issue. Like, you needed to see more interaction with her on earth and get a better understanding. Instead of, like, doing little flashbacks to karaoke and shit like that, like, really get a notion of who she was there, who she was on the Cree home world. Like, we don't, we don't see, like, have her go get a fucking coffee or something. Like, just to show us a slice of her life that informs who she was or who she was. she is and what she's trying to get back to. When you said the thing about her, like, sharing that moment with her friend at the,

first of all, the fact that we, neither of us can think of the friend's name kind of tells you how underserved that part of the... I forget if it's Monica or if it's the other one, because one of them grows up to be a Captain Marvelous character. Okay. I forget which one is which. Right. But you know that from Canon.

You don't know that from watching the movie. Right. And, and, and, and that's the thing where it was just like, oh, this is, this was my best friend. It's like, oh, I haven't seen you guys hang out at all except when you said, like, when you did the, the walkout, like, what, who was it? Harry Connick Jr. and Will Smith and. Right. In Independence Day, kick the tires and light the fires. They said that it was that exact same scene. And then that was it.

That was their only interactions that we saw not in like her flashes of memory or whatever. I just, right. And to not to put a too fine point on the ID4 thing, but there's also a fucking jet plane chase through a canyon. Yep. With an alien spacecraft in this movie. We all saw Independence Day. But so that was. So Maria Rambo is Lashana Lynch, who's amazing in the movie as her friend. And then Monica is the daughter. And Monica grows up to be a Captain Marvelous. Yeah. And they kind of tease that. So, yeah, like I said, now it sounds like I'm talking a lot of shit about the movie or whatever. I thought it was perfectly all right. I'm looking at like a list of just MCU movies and I'm not seeing a ton where I'm like, it would like, you know, I think the first two Thor movies are borderline unwatchable.

I think the last two Iron Man's are even worse. This is better than the first Thor movie. Oh, 100% it is. It's obviously better than Iron Man 2 and Thor 2, which I think are generally considered to be the Nadir of the MCU. But is it even better than Doctor Strange? Like, it didn't have the crazy fun thing at the end of, like, you know, him learning his power. Like, she just learned her powers and was like, I'm going to blow up a bunch of spaceships now. And that's it.

The movie just ends. But I think that's sort of a Superman problem, right? Like, you have this character that has incredible, unsublished. stoppable powers. And so what do you do with that? You give her a triumphant, I know who I am now, and you can't control me, go women kind of moment, which is great. And then she has the Indiana Jones and the swordsman moment with Drew Dlaw later on, which is the same kind of vibe. And that's great. But I mean, the problem is that you have this overpowered character, so you can't really do much with that. I think the thing with Dr. Strange, though, is that like at the end of the movie,

I knew who, I knew who Stephen Strange was. And I understood his journey, and it was great. That's what I'm saying, yeah. Yeah, I just feel like with this one you don't. I'll never understand your hatred of Iron Man 3. It's a fucking great flick. It stinks. It's fantastic. Pretty bad.

No, everybody gives Thor Ragnarok a pass for being like, unlike all the other Thor movies, but Iron Man 3 gets shit on for being something different. That's not why I didn't like it. It's too, I haven't seen it in a while, but I seem to recall my feeling about it was that like it was just too, I also, maybe it's just that I don't like Robert Downey Jr's whole thing. Like, we get it. Okay, I understand. My favorite thing in Captain Marvel was the scrolls and in particular Ben Mendelsohn, who I think is...

So good. He's such a great actor. We love him, folks, don't we? He's the funniest guy when he's talking to his science guy, the aside's the science guy. All of it's great. And turning them into a sympathetic villain-type deal is incredible, too. Maybe it doesn't really make sense when the Screllers are trying to murder Captain Marvel in the beginning of the movie with like sniper rifles. Why would you be doing that if you need her to, you know, help you find Marvell?

I don't know. But, you know, I'm not going to overthink this. My least favorite thing in the movie. The first 15 minutes. The first 15 minutes are, but again, like, but that's like an MCU hallmark now. Like the first 15 minutes of the Avengers are fucking terrible. And yet that's maybe my still my favorite movie. of the series.

The 90s stuff in the movie is really funny at times, the waiting for the disc to load, the blockbuster video. I used to work out a blockbuster, so that was nostalgic. There's a lot of stuff in the movie that really works on the 90s stuff. The music was fucking distracting.

And I didn't like it. And I also didn't like the choices they made. Just a girl or whatever that song is. Yeah. Scoring your big, your, your, your, your, underwhelming fight scene. Because again, the weirdest thing about this movie is that she had a better fight scene in the first 20 minutes of the movie on the Scrawl ship than she did at the end of the movie, which is something you should never do.

That's exactly right. But having that set to Just a Girl, like they were trying to go for that sort of like Tweed, Guardian's vibe. Yeah. And I think they actually, I think that's fine. I just think they picked the wrong song. Someone mentioned a song today, which may not sync up with the time. frame of the movie, but it really made me think how better it would have been. Do you remember the Lita Ford song

Kiss Me Deadly? You're going to, this is going to shock you. No, I don't. Somebody mentioned that being like, if you did that or like Hearts Barakuda or something that better stinks up, something that better stinks up with her doing like Guns and Roses karaoke with, with Maria back when she was on Earth, instead of like a fucking no doubt song that she's never even heard because she's been in fucking space. Like, I think, that scene might work better from me.

But I enjoyed it. I really did. And not just because I was at a draft house. I have to say that as a caveat because as one of Man of Steel's greatest defenders, I always have to put the caveat in that I cried at that movie because I was a draft house.

I hate a damn draft house, dude. Let me watch the movie. I'm not trying to order any fucking milkshakes today. You know, it does bring all the boys to the art. All right. Watch this Avengers trailer real quick. Oh, yeah. All right. Here we go. Here is the new Avengers Endgame trailer, and Ryan Lambert's going to watch it in real time.

Everloose. I've already seen it. I thoroughly thought it was just another teaser trailer that tells us nothing. All right, here we go. But let's see what he says. Audio. Tony Star, he's blowed up. Now he's all drawn.

Mm-hmm. Looking at the thing. Yep, a lot of those voiceovers. He's very emotional. Yeah. He's on the, he's on. It's a black and white. look at the origins of many of our primary

heroes that are still alive and did not get dusted by Thanos. Yeah. Bad C.G.I. Skinny Cap America. Okay, now he's full size. Hawkeye Man. He's doing arrows with his daughter. You see, that's my problem. I'll get to in a second. Now he's holding hands even though he's married. Well, he's probably not married anymore because I imagine that

is right before his family gets dusted by Thanos. Oh, maybe, maybe. That's why he becomes Ronan. He's very upset. There's Falcons. Ronan, like as in a samurai, not like as in the abuser. Yeah, that would have been confusing. Lee Pace shows up.

This is a lot of dramatic music and talking. Oh, my gosh. This is all the stuff I already saw, man. I can tell you're overwhelmed by the emotion of the terror. He's freaking ant-man's here. He's going to show up and go, hi, everybody. buddy and he's going to do takes to camera probably like hey isn't this a little meta folks remember

rocket raccoon and ironman working together raccoon and ironman yeah they're friends they're they're friends the blue lady that's a nebula played by the lovely Karen Gillan formerly of a doctor who thing yeah antman there he's back whatever it takes We're all wearing space suits. Yeah, that's so they can go into the quantum realm, buddy. Probably. Oh, that makes sense.

Yeah. Well, Greg, I guess I'm going to see this movie. Yeah, probably. So it might stop in. Here's the big sting coming up at the end of the thing, right? It's Thor. He's like this one. There is.

He gives the endorsement to Captain Marvel. He likes this one, he says. Cool. What a great way to end that trailer. Mm-hmm. I think that they are going to fight Thanos, way earlier in this movie than people expect. And there's going to be some timey-wimmy shicanery that involves them having to jump around

different timelines of different Marvel movies in order to ultimately defeat him. That's my prediction. Yeah, I think everybody thinks that. They have to go time traveling. That's the whole point. So the shot of Hawkeye and what is probably his daughter caused a stir this morning because in the classic comic Hawkeye by Matt Fraction, he has a...

Remember him? Matt Fratton? I do. Hockey guy. He has an apprentice who ascends the Hawkeye Mantle named Kate Bishop, and everybody lost their shit because we all thought that was Kate Bishop in the thing. It's probably him shooting arrows with his daughter or whatever before she gets dusted too, but it'd be awesome if it was Kate Bishop for the comic book fans out there.

You know what I'm talking about? I don't because I'm not familiar with the canon. So like it means nothing to be. Like anytime a guy in one of these Marvel movies shows, because I don't read any of the comics, so like anytime a guy in one of these movies shows up and like everybody in the theater, he was like, woo, we love the man.

I'm like, who's that? Yeah. Just stage whisper. That reminded me every time I would see a Lord of the Rings movie having never read anything but The Hobbit. And then they would like show like some castle on a mountain and two towers, people would be like, oh, my God. And I'd be like, what?

It's like, asshole on the mountain. Who gives a shit? That was my reaction to it. Yeah. All right, that's a puck suit for this week. Probably a very long and extended edition. Yeah, very long. Jesus.

Sorry. Our thanks to Katie Baker for joining us. You could read all her stuff at the ringer, and you can read my stuff at ESPN, and you can read Ryan's stuff at Yahoo. That's right. And enjoy the mailbag on the Patreon now. Thanks, everybody.

Bye, E. Bye. It's in goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nancet. Book 2.