Puck Soup - Kneed to Change

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Sean and Ryan talk about player safety, the Leafs, the playoffs, and more.

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic. And first of all, a top of the marnon to you. It's freaking St. Patrick's Day. Don't do that to my. My culture is not your costume. I'm also that culture. I can do that if I want to.

All right. You ever see that tweet about Barry Keegan? You know what? I just saw a thing the other day. I thought it was Keegan. He said on a radio interview, it is Keogan. Really? So all the people that I felt like were wrong the whole time, they were right.

First time I've ever seen an Irish last name and they're like, no, that's phonetic actually. Huh? Okay. Anyway, you ever see that tweet about him where his girlfriend at the time, Sabrina Carpenter, asks him who the Joker is? And he says he's sort of like an evil person. I had not seen that, no. I think about that anytime I think about Barry Keogh. or the Joker.

Uh-huh. He's sort of like an evil person. Anyway. You sure is? That's, uh, that's St. Patrick's. Are you wearing green today? You know what? I actually am.

And that was not, that was not, uh, planned by me. I, when I, when I fired up my computer this morning and it said it's March 17th, I was like, Faith in Begora, you know? Of course you were. That's just how people like us talk. Yeah, I know that. Um, anyhow, it's funny that this is like, you know, a week and a half after the trade deadline or whatever, because usually all we talk about, all there is to talk about, you know, is the playoff race. Who's in, who's out, who's hot, who's not?

This week, it is a crazy news week. There is so much to talk about. And the most pressing thing, of course, is a topic every. loves to discuss. How does this affect the Maple Leafs? Can't wait. Doesn't affect them too well, I'd say that. Not great, yeah, not positively. So Austin Matthews, he's playing in a game against the Anaheim Ducks last week.

Radco Gudis goes knee to knee with him and frankly one of the craziest kneeing incidents, I guess, that I've seen in quite some time. this was old school Brian Marchman yeah 90s knee on knee yeah he got you know you know like in uh you know like the leg lengthening surgeries people people get now

yes uh huh radco gootas got one of those just to do this kneeing it was honestly as if there was like they were filming like a movie or a TV show and they're like all right the villain is going to take out the hero's knee but then somebody was like you know what for people who don't watch hockey

it's a little subtle can we do it in like the most over the top ridiculous way and yeah they did it's like those those workplace safety videos where someone has to like really like I'm going up on a ladder that only has

three legs and it's 80 feet tall and I'm above a big pit of spikes and thumb tacks yep that's how crazy this kneeing was to me. Anaheim fans were like,

no, it was actually pretty normal. Okay, well, sorry. But that happens. And I guess we can talk about the Leaf's response to it or lack thereof later on. I have that as a thing we can talk about later. Okay.

But Matthew's done for the year. I mean, who cares? It's like 15 games, 18 games, whatever it is. The team sucks. They're not going, they're not making the playoffs. Might as well, you like even precautionary thing. Just shut it down.

Who cares? But you're thinking, okay, well, obviously they're going to throw the book at Raggo Gudis. I mean, the easiest possible scenario to throw the book at someone. Okay. What did you think the number was going to be just based on seeing it? Oh, I mean, I thought it was going to be low because it's the Department of Player Safety and it's the Maple Leafs. It's, I was actually mildly surprised they went as high as they did because I'm one of those

crazy conspiracy people who has noticed that the Department of Player Safety has been insanely weird about the Leafs for a decade now. You know, it's really funny because this is one of those things where every, like every conspiracy, not every conspiracy theory, but a conspiracy theory where like someone puts it forward and everybody's like, come on. And then over the year, like, you're repealing back the layers of the onion and increasingly like, well, you know what? Maybe I owe my friend Sean an one person at a time. We already got Gentilly on board. We're going to work on you next. I think this is like, maybe I need one more just to be like the nail in the coffin on this one.

Yeah. But, you know, you don't need to make a loose change style video for this one for me at this point. Like, I'm pretty much, I'm pretty much on board here. You know what it's really like is like the JFK assassination where I'm like, you know what? Something was definitely up with that. I'm not like all the way sure what's up with it. I'm pretty sure. It's like, right, you've got like the then the different sub branches of the conspiracy where like some people are like connecting the red string to a picture of Brendan Chanahan.

That's exactly right. connecting it to like Colton Oar or something. But, you know, the overall, we, once, we're a broad tent here. So once you're in the coalition, we have lots of room for, for different viewpoints. See, this is how I know you're not, like, really dialed in on this conspiracy theory stuff. It's all about the internist scene. Oh, you think that guy did it? No, it was his friend who did it. I'll kill you. Yeah. You know? I'm not saying we won't get there. I'm just saying we're trying to. Yeah. Yeah. Chief Critical Mass first. Sure. And I got to tell you, man, look, okay, five games, like you say, they don't suspend anybody for anything if they can avoid it. So five games feels like a lot to them. I'm sure it's the, you know, I should have looked this up before we did the show, but like I'm sure it's the most they've handed out in quite some time.

Yeah, I did. I'm going to look up the history while we talk. By the way, most handed out in quite some time non-Mapleafs division. Exactly. Because, I mean, it's not, like, Radco Goodas is a dirty player who's been suspended multiple times for multiple things. But he's not like, he's not like a Jason Spetsza level goon that you really have to come down with, you know, something. I'll tell you. I can really hear out the argument that he hadn't been suspended in like seven or eight years.

or whatever the number was. Oh, okay. That was kind of what the pushback on it was from like Anaheim or whatever, apparently. So we had a four-game suspension earlier this year, but that was like, you know, I think that included preseason games and stuff like that. Right. So that's the most. But, yeah, anyway, like, the other thing they said was that if you look at the history of kneeing suspensions, going back like 15 years or something like that.

Almost all of them are in the one to two game range. Almost. Right. And so the argument is that this is like an edge case where this is like, yeah, it's pretty extreme. It's not the most extreme we've ever seen. I think they said it was like a Matt Cook one in like 2012 or something like that that that was. that was worse than this, like, or got more games than this? And that was when Matt Cook was in the,

oh, yeah. Like, the, we're sick of you zone. How, like, at any given time, the NHL has one, or the Department of Player Safety has one and only one player who's not allowed to do anything. Yeah. It was Tom Wilson for a while. I think it's Matt Rempe now.

Yeah, Rempe got eight last year for, for boarding slash elbowing. And then shortly thereafter. Oh, nope, never mind. That was the last, like, big one he got. And we should say, if Gany Malcon did get five games, like, a week ago. So it's not completely, but, uh, God, slashing a dude in the head. Yeah, like, and again, the difference between slashing a guy in the head because you're mad at him and like sticking the knee out like that, like you can make the argument.

Like, it doesn't feel, that's a hockey play gone wrong. It doesn't feel unreasonable also. So to say that, like, though, if you're going to slash a guy in the head and that's five games, and A, you're not a dirty player who does it, and B, the other guy doesn't get injured, that when those two factors change, maybe the number should go up. Yeah. You know, it's funny because I was always under the impression that it was like we suspend to the injury. Yeah.

Did that change? A lot of us kind of were under that impression. I do wonder, like, putting aside the Leafs stuff, just if the Toronto Maple Leafs were holding down a playoff spot, do you think the number changes? Because now Matthews is out for the regular season and the playoffs. Right. And should that matter?

I mean, would it matter? I feel like it would. Like, if the Leafs were on pace for 100 points and everyone in Toronto was talking like, this could be the year, Stanley Cup, they just maybe added at the deadline and then their best player gets taken out. Yeah. I guess that changes it.

And maybe it, I don't know, like it feels like the success of the team shouldn't matter, but maybe then it's more games missed or whatever. But the guy's missing 20 games. Like what? Yeah. Anyways. Obviously, I'm with you on all this. It's hard for me to sit here and disagree with anything you're saying.

Guys, I think we should criticize the Department of Player's Safety. with me. Who can, who wants, oh, wait, literally everyone was already on that. Well, I'll tell you who's with you. Conor McDavid, you ever heard of this guy? A good guy to have with you. Well, you know, I remember I did a thing a few years ago where I was like looking at guys who draw penalties. This is more than a few years ago now, I guess. This is when I was at Yahoo. So this is how long ago it was. But I was just looking at like guys who draw penalties, like the most penalties per 60 or whatever. And Connor, I can't remember the, I can't remember the numbers now, but like Connor McDavid was in like the 140s for NHL players drawing penalties per 60.

And it's like, I've seen this guy play. I feel like he should be maybe not like even top 30. But you can't, we can't get this guy into the double digits. Yep. I just refuse to believe that he's not being followed that much is basically my. Well, wasn't it the, a couple years ago that like he went through a whole playoff run and didn't draw a single penalty or, like, the fastest guy alive, right? Fastest guy who's unstoppable, but.

Well, he's stoppable. You're allowed to commit penalties against it. Oh, okay. That's the one weird trick, right? Like, referees hate him. That's his one weird trick is you can do whatever you want to him, and basically, and not get in trouble. And so, like, I think.

that's a little bit where McDavid is coming from when he says this. I think player safety has done their best. It's not an easy thing to do. With that being said, I think there is reason to take a look at how the process works. If every time there's a suspension,

everybody complains about it, why don't we take a look at the process and figure out if there's a better way to make sure both parties are happy? It seems like there's a lot of frustration there. I don't think this is like a controversial thing. to say. In fact, this is almost, like, if you actually break it down and parse it, he's almost

not saying anything. He's kind of saying it's a hard job, but if people are mad, maybe we should look at it, but not actually criticize or anything. But, you know, the fact that it is Connor McDavid, and he even answered the question at all is, I guess, where the news comes from. Yeah. And... It is worth noting that I believe he and Matthews are friends, like, outside of the game of hockey. Like, they hang out socially or whatever. And also, I think maybe this is more critical to it. They share an agent, Judd Moldaver.

Moldover, I don't remember how to pronounce it. And I think that, obviously, like, he didn't walk out and say, guys, I have something to say. Right? Like, he was asked about it and he answered how he answered. And I think what he said is basically correct, right? Like if every time a suspension comes out, people can't believe how little a guy got, which is what we're really talking about here.

Yes. Does that not say something about the process that leads to the suspensions that people are mad about all the time? And I think he's right. I think, yes, this is kind of undeniable that if everybody's mad at it 100% of it, when's the last time there was a suspension? Like maybe the Malkin one is actually a good counter example here where it's like everybody looked at that and go, yeah, five games, sure.

Yeah. But. But even that one, like, I think people looked at it and they weren't like, oh, that's not five games. They were like, oh, I'm surprised that's five games given everything else being one game. Given what we know about. Yeah. It's just a tricky thing. thing for a player to talk about, but...

Yeah. I think also part of the anger with the Goudas thing is the whole phone hearing, in-person hearing thing. Right. Which we all know if it's a phone hearing, it can't... That means it's going to be five or less. Mm-hmm. And the fact that they... Like, I understand why they have that system, certainly.

And obviously, you don't want to be putting guys on airplanes to, you know, do in-person hearings all the time. But that, especially in this case, considering who was involved, kind of prime the pump a little bit for people to be mad because they had basically pre-announced it's going to be five or less. Right. And so even the fact that it, so everybody was almost like ready to be mad as opposed to like if they had done an in-person hearing and then it had still been five, which you're

allowed to do, that almost, I wonder if that would have played a bit differently. because at least, I don't know, maybe it wouldn't have, but the fact that they just looked at it and went, well, I mean, obviously we're not going to need more than five. Like, Raiko Goodas could have got on the hearing and been like, I just wanted to blow that bastard's knee out. Right. You know, I was just like, I'm taking this guy out for the season,

and they would still be like, well, five days. Our hands are tied. Yeah. He got us on a technicality. Maybe he did say that. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that he didn't. Okay, well, agree to disagree. sure um as you say though like he certainly didn't play like he didn't want to hurt the guys knee really

bad no you know so there's that but i don't know ultimately um i if i'm remembering right this isn't like the first time mac david has has criticized officiating and and discipline in the league like he's complained about how and you want to you want to talk about it's it's legal to do anything you want to Connor McDavid. You can throw a fucking spear through this guy's chest now. They're not going to give a shit. $5,000 fine. That's it.

And, you know, it's the thing that we always have with star players in the NHL. We want them to be leaders and step up and talk about the game. But as soon as they do, they're little cry babies. I don't think anybody's saying, I'm saying like in player safety, they're going to be like, we don't care. Player safety is the one thing, yeah. You can tackle. You can tackle Connor McDavid, horse collar him, who cares.

That's none of our business. Yep. Like, it's, it's really, it's tough to talk about because it's like, yeah, I think all the players and all the fans and probably a good chunk of the media don't like this, this whole system, the way it's operated for years and years. But clearly somebody likes it. Right? Like, GMs don't want, Pat Verbeek doesn't want Radco Gouda suspended for five games. And the only way he's looking at it is through that lens and not through whatever. They could do that to Troy Terry next.

You know what I mean? Like they, there's no, there's no like there but for the grace of God go I. Yeah. For every, and this is honestly the. the problem here is that the teams, GMs, everybody treats it the same way the fans treat it, which is we want big suspensions for everyone, except our precious little angel boys.

Yeah, not our guys. Our guys are good. Our guys are nice, sweet boys who don't deserve to be picked on. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, we all, you know, George Peros could very much go, you know, flip the switch like Shanahan did when he first started the Department of Player's Safety.

God, that was so beast when he did that. He just came in. He's like, everybody's getting nine games. Fuck you. For like a month. It was so sick. Enough people, you know, were like, wait a second. So I, you know, the interesting thing to me is that, and I, well, how can I phrase this? Because I don't know what happened behind the scenes. What I was going to say was that they, the league, made George Peros talk to the media this morning. They shoved him out there. Now, maybe it didn't happen that way. Maybe Peros is like, hey, man, I'm getting cooked out there. I want to go and, you know, at least defend myself.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. It could be that, too. But in any case, it's very, you know, this is the same league where the, you know, the officials are never available for a question and everything like that. So do you have the quote in front of you? I've got, I can pull up the, the entire article because there was quite a lot of, I mean, he spoke for a while. Yeah, as he should. You know what? Like, we're all ripping the guy.

Let him, let him get up there and- He answered the bell, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, he, essentially, if people are missing it, this was Tuesday morning before the GM's meetings, he talked to the media, didn't really say anything. all that interesting other than he thinks they have a good process he defends the process he got a little bit

kind of weepy about how hard they work and you know how many great guys he has on his team and and all of this stuff um and they they thought it was uh for Gouda specifically that it was the right call and that they stand by it yeah the thing that I

the thing that I okay I'll I'll read the quote I think is like the most pertinent to everything we're talking about here. We sweat over these decisions and pour over these decisions every night all season long. I, you know, now I'll do the like Fire Joe Morgan thing where I'm going to interject here. Oh, it's kind of, was it Fisket? Is that the? Yeah, that's exactly right. How much, are we still in like single digit suspensions for this year? How deep into the season are we?

So every night all season long, I don't know about that. We have a process in place that's consistent, and we have a team that works for me together with me that evaluates all these plays. And that this is the part that I'm like, okay, I see what the problem here is. You think the issue is that people don't think this is consistent. People think it's too consistent in the wrong way. Yep. That's the problem here. It's the consistency is not the issue the fact that most guys it feels like get off pretty fucking light.

That's the issue. And frankly, the fact that this happened to a star player on a team and arguably the most, or not even arguably, I think, the most like hockey focused market in the league, right? Like you can say L.A. and New York are bigger markets, but like the Toronto Maple Leafs. are the biggest market team in terms of hockey interest. I think it's fair to say. I would say so. Maybe not for long, but in general, sure. But the fact that all like those factors and it's a season-ending injury and it's their best player and they really don't have anything else to fucking talk about right now up in Toronto, you know, like what are they going to do to talk about like how good of a job Craig Barooey's doing, you know?

Like I think the convergence of all those. things really is what's like focusing the microscope or the the magnifying glass like like to burn an ant you know what I mean like maybe yeah that that's what this all feels like to me and but I mean I do think it's even more than the Toronto factor it's that this is one of the league's five most recognizable players five but that's what I'm saying like a guy just coming it was just the captain of the US Olympic team you know absolutely and and all of this stuff. And he gets taken out by a plug.

I'm not going to go so far as to call Goud as a plug, but it's a guy 99% of sports fans, 99.999% of sports fans have ever heard of. Right. Right. And if you have heard of him, it's probably because he hurt somebody on your team. Or it's in the fact of like, you know, he actually hasn't gotten suspended in quite a long time. And you're like, really? Yeah.

Okay. And I the, we'll just say it, by all accounts, a wonderful guy off the ice. Great. I love to hear that.

That's awesome for me. Good. I'm glad then, you know what? Don't suspend him for anything he does off the ice. Yeah. But on the ice,

kind of a dick. Okay. So he goes, we have a very experienced team, a veteran team, guys that have been there since the beginning of the department,

not to mention all the former players that have a large set of experiences playing NHL games, accolades, some of the best guys that have played the game work for the department, help make decisions. So our process, I feel very confident in. We've got great guys who make these decisions, and I think the players should be confident in this team to do so. Again, you're confident in the process that everyone's like, this process sucks. I don't know if you know this.

We don't think this process is very good And then the thing at the end I think the player should be confident In this team to do so Well you you know I think I think they should give me a million dollars Every day Yeah

They don't do it for some I also think I'm doing a good job And all the people who say I'm doing a crappy job Should stop saying that Yeah Like he's he's not giving them anything To be confident about I guess

When it comes to protecting players And look, like a boarding suspension that gets you a one game or like a boarding suspension that's one game or obviously it all gets taken on a case by case basis. But again, when it's the consistency of that's it, huh? And maybe I'm just, again, I've said this a million times. I'm a throw the book at him kind of guy. I actually want to see Austin Matthews play hockey and not miss 20 games or whatever. You're big law and order guy in general. You're, uh, yeah.

Yeah. You can insert the, like, sound from that show on order, which I actually, I've probably seen like four full episodes of ever. But I know the sound. Mm-hmm. And yeah, ultimately, like, again, I think that they were doing the best job when Brendan Shanahan was just like dropping six games on anybody for anything. Because, you know, like, well, I guess it boils down to, like, is like, uh, Is there any effect on the recidivism rate due to the severity of the suspension? Yeah, that would be.

And Radco Gudis, if he hasn't been suspended in eight years, Tom Wilson's got a clean track record. I think to a certain extent you can kind of argue, if you hit a guy with 12 games for like his second or third offense, they kind of go, okay, maybe I need to think about this. Like 12 games is a lot or whatever the number you want to apply here is. Mm-hmm. And so you could also – the other thing that they, I think, they would argue is, like, look, we only have suspended 12 guys this year or whatever the number is. And it's like, right, everybody kind of thinks that's low, though, right? To circle back to it. Hey, if we don't arrest guys for, like, breaking into houses, crime rates low, you know?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So – I'll say this. I think – okay, here's what I thought were the two most interesting things about what Perra said. one is he did kind of tiptoe up to saying that if things were going to, if, if things are going to change that the players association would have a say in that. And this is another part that some people are mad about, that the NHLPA, as they often do, stepped in on behalf of Goudis and sort of helped with the defense. Yeah, they have to both sides it for sure. Yeah.

I don't have a problem with that. if I'm in trouble at work and I have a union, my union should have my back. Even if it is something that, you know, involves somebody else. My union should at the very least be like able to, you know, have my back in the sense of, you know, giving me whatever information might help me in that situation. So I don't actually have a problem with the, I know some people are like, well, the NHLPA should be like, oh, no, suspend us for more. because by definition, every on-ice infraction occurs at the expense of one of your members as well.

I don't see it that way, but Paris is right in the sense that the PA is a stakeholder in this, and they don't seem to be complaining. So maybe that's, you know, maybe that's part of the problem. What I found most interesting, though, is what he didn't say in that I was, wondering if there was a part of him that was going to come out and go, guys, if you want bigger suspensions, we can do that. We are working within a range that's been given to us sort of implicitly. If you want to expand that range, we can do it.

But then I don't want your GM calling me and crying. I don't want the media beating me up because somebody got some little precious boy on your team, got an eight-game suspension. I don't want this or that. we're happy to do it, but we will work within the range that we're given, and right now that's what we're doing, which I think would have,

a lot of people would have, you know, it maybe would have been more understandable, but instead he sort of, you know, it would also kind of feel like he was throwing other people under the bus a bit then, or maybe refusing to be thrown under the bus himself, and he didn't really do that. He sort of did the good soldier thing

and was just like, no, we stand by our brilliant decisions. Yep. And again, like, apparently the NHLPA thought it was appropriate based on previous suspensions for kneeing. Yeah. And if, again, if we're going to say, like, one or two is kind of the standard, you can argue that they did suspend to the severity of the injury and all that kind of stuff. I don't think that's appropriate. Like, I don't think they went far enough. And I think a lot of people agree with me on this. And it does, this, the reason this feels like a bit of a flashpoint,

beyond the fact that it's Toronto is you're getting people outside of that market that are mad. Right? Usually it's just the, you know, one, you know, one team media, fan base, etc., are mad. Maybe you get like some lukewarm like, yeah, you know, they're right for a day and then it goes away and we move on to the next thing. It's what happened with Malkin, what happened with, you know, on down the line. This one seems to have legs beyond that for a lot of the reasons that you said, including the fact that it's after the deadline and we got nothing to talk about. So I don't know, whether anything will change long term. And we should also say the Austin Matthews agent going like scorched earth helped juice the story as well.

Oh, yeah, I don't have that quote in front of me. Do you have that? I don't, but it was... Okay. And Paris addressed that this morning and basically was like, yeah, an agent's going to stick up for a player. So, sure. You know, I... But it was rare-ish for somebody to go out at that heart.

I have the quote here. Okay. In light of the obvious severity of the play, I am disappointed and shocked the league would allow such a ruling. A phone hearing in five games is laughable and preposterous. While the process is set in our CBA that this was the discipline is reckless and ridiculous. This decision results in a further loss of confidence in the disciplinary process for all players. Players and fans deserve better. The Department of Player's safety should be suspended.

Oh, that last part. Oh, dude hit him with it. I know you are, but what am I? So he's disappointed in shock. Dude went on rubber and your glue. He's disappointed in shock. This was laughable, preposterous, reckless, and ridiculous. That's crazy.

I mean, that's not a bad promo. No, it's not, no, for sure. Dude went all Stephen A. Smith on the... To me, the crab rangoons thinks of that nature. Exactly. So... But yeah, so, I don't know. Like, I just feel like everybody except George Peros and probably Pat Verbeek and Raggo

Go Gootis are on the same page here. And let's be honest, man. Peros did, he did his media thing this morning. He did his, take him aside, hook him up to a lie detector. He'd probably be like, yeah, man, we screw it. We should have been eight games. We should have gone eight and not be dealt with all. Yeah, he can't say that.

Like, he couldn't come up and say that. Like, his whole job is kind of the tweet about turning the dial and waiting to see how the audience reacts. And he's probably like, all right, we, we missed on this one a little bit. And ultimately, the question is which audience is he turning the dial for? Because if it's fans, like, is it fans or is it the GMs and owners and board of governors and all that? Exactly. Yep.

And we know the answer. So, like, we don't actually have to ask the question at all. The answer is the latter group, actually, the one he cares about. Yeah, the people who are signing his paychecks and not in the way that, like, when you get pulled over for, doing like 50 and a 30 and you say to the cop, I actually pay your salary. Yeah. It's not that kind of a situation. Well, and look, I've, and we can wrap on this and it'll be a weird, weird, uh, maybe

place for me to go out on it. But I've said before, I have some sympathy for the Department of Player Safety because they are beholden to their bosses and they clearly are working within a range and that range is smaller than I would like. It's smaller than a lot of people would like. But, you know, it's not like George Paris is just sitting there with his arms folded doing this and Gary Batman is like, please, all the owners keep calling me and saying, please suspend guys more.

And George Peros is like, no, I'm not going to do it. This is... Come on. This is what it comes on. Be your friend. I'll be your best friend. Yeah. So it's... But yeah, it's a mess.

and the Department of Player's Safety is bad. And welcome to the resistance. Everyone who told me I was being crazy and unreasonable a couple years ago when I started pointing out certain things. Yeah, you just had the red yarn ready to go, you know? Just a brave truth teller. And, you know, that's... A lot of people are saying that about you.

I did my own research. by typing the exact answer I wanted to get into YouTube and then watching whatever video came up to support it. And it turns out I was right all along. That's right. All right. Why don't we take a break? We'll come back and we'll talk about a bunch of other stuff. All right.

We're back. And we talked a lot about, you know, the suspension and that kind of thing. But the real thing that I've been thinking about a lot and I'm sure Sean has too is, like, like, is this like the end of something for the Maple Leafs? They're not going to make the playoffs. Matthews is done for the year and there's already talk about like, does he want to go through a rebuild that does seem to be kind of necessary? Mm-hmm.

And so between this, the Marner situation over the past summer, is this just like the end of the Maple Leafs as we know it, basically? I think this whole season marks. The end of a chapter and the beginning of we're not really sure what. And obviously, Matthew's getting hurt as part of that. There's been a lot of talk about, you know, he's got two years left on his contract. Which coincidentally means his deal is up the same time as Connor McDavid's deal is up, which is interesting. but there's been a lot of talk about, you know, are we potentially headed towards another

Mitch Marner situation where a superstar player just gets to free agency and then walks? I'm sure I don't even have to tell anyone that Austin Matthews has full trade protection because this is the Leafs and everyone gets full trade protection all the time. So he clearly does. He has all the leverage. he could go to the Leafs and say, here's the one team I want to be traded to. He could say, I'm not going to accept any trade.

I'm going to go to free agency. He could do any number of things. And, you know, the one thing that this kind of, this situation maybe moves the needle on is, Elliot Friedman's been really good on this story. and he had suggested on Hockenine Canada this weekend. I'm sure he probably talked about it on the podcast as well, that there was a feeling that Matthews was going to just get through the season

and then sort of reevaluate in this summer and sort of see where he was at. And now the summer is here, pretty much. Right. There's no more season to concentrate. I mean, there's rehab and whatever else. but yeah, it's hard to say where this is going to go. But, yeah, I mean, very clearly, the Marner leaving sort of signaled something

and the fact that they crashed and burned in the subsequent season is signals that that something is nothing good. Craig Barabee is getting fired at the end of the year. Oh, yeah. If Bradshaw Living keeps his job after this, I like there's already been like a little bit of that. Top five funny outcome. There's been a little bit of that kind of like feeding the trial balloons through the media and I don't know where it's coming from.

But that hey, you know, Keith Pelly, who is the, he's the dude with the glasses who shows up once a year in Toronto and acts like he's in charge. That, you know, maybe true living is, maybe it's not his fault. The funniest was the one going around was that the ownership views this as it's the fault of the players. Awesome. And it's like who put the players together, man. Like, where did the players come from? Was there anyone in charge of acquiring players? Well, I'll even go beyond that.

You talk about funny outcomes, just purely from a team chaos point of view. if True Living stays, I really feel like the Leafs fan base is on a tipping point of something I don't know what it would be. Obviously, the building's not going to be empty or anything like that, but if they come out the day after the season

and Keith Belly's like, I have full confidence in Bradra. That will be very objectively funny for a couple of days to watch the reaction in Toronto because they will get absolutely killed in a way that... Yes. I mean, in it's Toronto, like, I get that sometimes you're like, yeah, you, you know, you scratch your, you know, you scratch your arm and you get crushed for it.

But this will be, like, an entire fan base going full Steve Dangle at all times. Yeah. If it was, if I wasn't a Lee fan myself, I kind of want to see it. I don't want to see it. Yeah, it's the only thing I want to see now that you say that. It's... Like, this part. podcast just being like, what the fuck for two hours would be awesome the day that happened?

Yeah. The day. The whole summer, man. The whole. So, yeah, I mean, but the point is there's going to be a coaching change. There better be a front office change. There is an ownership change happening. You know, the switch over to Rogers is, you know, continuing along.

And so, yeah. the the original fun innocent core four era is uh is absolutely done it's it's it's deader it's it's deader than austin matthew's knee ligaments man like it it really is like the the did they make the did they make the second round one time twice twice including last year weirdly enough yeah which feels like forever ago. They were they were in a game seven in round two like if and because

they absolutely crapped the bed in that game as they did in game five totally no mice. It feels like they got swept in that round and that's that's valid but they haven't won that game like holy smokes talk about a signpost in

along the journey but they didn't and they didn't come close and so here we are. Yeah, and obviously it feels like Marr was leaving no matter what happened, but... Oh, yeah. Yeah, I just think it's really interesting, like you say, like the... Even the possibility that Matthews is available via trade this summer is fucking insane to me. In what sense?

Like the fact that, like, if he says, yeah, get me the fuck out of here. Okay. I just... That never happens in this league. But the way it is getting talked about, and maybe it's just getting talked about because insiders need to gin up interest because we're post-trade deadline. I'm not like discounting that possibility. But this just never happens.

And it feels a lot more, because, you know, when you talk about McDavid, oh, you know, he might leave Edmonton 13 years from now or whatever. That all feels like, yeah, but he's not going to. given everything we know about the Leafs and how the last couple of years have gone, this feels way more live to me than, like, as a possibility, than any of this McDavid stuff

over the last however many years, way more live. I would agree, yeah. And so let me ask you this. Is this, and I kind of hate to do this to you, but I do kind of want your perspective on it, Is this kind of like the biggest disappointment for a team that we all thought was going to be good in like recent memory?

Like that this is that as you say, making the making the second round twice. Yeah. And getting smoked when they, or getting embarrassed when they did it. Yeah, maybe the like I don't think it's the biggest disappointment as compared to like a team like the Rangers winning the president's trophy, which the Leafs never came close to doing in the Matthews era. and then missing the playoffs the next year. That's happened, though. That's happened a couple of times.

But, I mean, teams losing in the second round and then missing the playoffs happens every year. Like, you know, it's going to happen to Winnipeg this year, right? Oh, no, I'm talking about like taking it as a whole, not just this year. With style points, this is, this moves up the list. This is a messy train wreck right up to, you know, know, to current day where, like, Matthews gets hurt and it's like every Lee fan is finally like, all right, tank for the top five pick. And the Leafs are like, start winning games, gotcha.

Right. Yeah. Five points in five out of six points in three games against three playoff teams. Why not? But yeah, no, they're a mess. And the big thing in Toronto right now is putting aside, like, And this is not a George Perros thing. Putting aside the suspension, the fact that nobody did anything when the goodest play happened. Has apparently, like, it was a big deal in the fan base.

And sometimes stuff like this is just a big thing to the fans and then you move on. But apparently it's much bigger than that. Apparently, again, L.A. Freeman has been all over this, talking about how like Brad Trilliv, I don't know if you saw this, but like Trilliving wasn't with the team over the weekend.

But apparently he called some of the players personally to like, sounds like to rip on them. Yeah, to yell at them. There was a, you know, there was a lot of talk of like, okay, clearly like the culture of this team is clearly broken beyond any repair that that happened.

You know, like, and I even get, like, some of the players who were on the ice at the time said, well, you know, we didn't see the hit. We didn't realize it was as bad as it as it was. Yeah, the comments I saw was like, I thought it was like, because, God, I can't remember who it was, maybe Kneelander or somebody, was like, oh, like, my hand went up because I thought it was an obvious trip. Yeah. I didn't know, but I didn't realize it was knee on knee. Right. Because I didn't have the angle on. And I think Morgan Riley was also out there.

Maybe it was Morgan Riley. It might have been. Yeah. And, you know, he was saying like, oh, I didn't see. I just kind of turned around and saw the aftermath. Dude, the aftermath is your best player is laying on the ice holding his knee. Yep. Radco Gudas is sitting there, you know, standing over him and the referee has his arm in the air.

What do you need to see? Like, what do you think happened? do you think that this is going to be a too many men on the ice penalty and Matthew fell down from the strain of trying to count to six I have a theory about what happened on that

on that aspect of it nobody wants to fucking fight Radco Gudis. Yeah, no kidding. Now here's the thing. My argument would be I totally understand that right? Like if I'm Morgan Riley, I don't want that action coming my way Because I'm going to get my fucking head caved in.

Yes. And now it's two good players on the team lying on the ice, you know, in not good shape. So go take a fucking baseball swing at him. Like, you know. And I mean, it shouldn't even go get suspended. Who gives a fuck? The season's pointless. It shouldn't be a fight.

It should be four on one. Yes, that's absolutely right. That's what the Panthers would do. That's what the lightning would have done. Mm-hmm. Yep. And even to like, God, and this is, this is going to get grim. This is going to get bleak.

But I look back fondly at the, do you remember when Phil Kessel got jumped by John Scott? Yeah, like three guys. And the whole team, including David Clarkson, jumping off the bench. And look, Raggo Goodus is a tough guy. Like, he's tough. He's not John Scott tough. No. No, no, no.

John Scott was like six foot eight, one of the toughest guys in the league, and the whole team was like, no, you're going to go after Phil Kessel? And Phil Kessel was a pretty good player. He wasn't as good as Matthews. Yeah, of course. And like this is how bleak it is in Toronto. I am now yearning for the days of David Clarkson. I wish we had David Clarkson back.

Yeah, man. That's tough. David Clarkson than they have now. No, this is, this was the punctuation mark on a team. team that is fundamentally broken on the inside somehow. And I don't know how it gets there. I don't know who's to blame. I don't know.

But it's, it's a mess. And it's, it's, it's. And now, of course, like the last few games, they've been much more physical because they've been shamed into it. Yep. Up to and including that third period in Anaheim. All right. Like I, I told this story on.

If people are listening to this being like, man, I need more Maple Leafs podcast. Yeah, of course. I was on the Monday episode of the Athletic Hockey Show just to do a segment about this specific topic. And the story I told them, which is true, is for the Anaheim game, I just tuned in in the third period. Mm-hmm. not knowing anything that it happened in the game up to that point. So I'm just watching the game like, these guys really got to burn their sound.

Look at them, man. They're getting into fights. They're doing this and that. Yeah, cool, good for them. And only later found out what had happened in the second period that it caused all that. Yeah, it's a mess. And it's, I think Riley's gone at this point.

I think that was like, that's going to be viewed as, you know, dude, you're, you're the, you've been here longer than anyone. You're the leader or a leader. You're, you know, all of this stuff. Can't happen. I think nobody's, you know, I hope they don't overreact to just one thing. It's not like the season was going great until this one shift. But it's, it's, it's, it's, this team is completely broken. Everybody can see it.

nobody wants it to continue. Nobody likes watching these guys. And nobody trusts anyone top to bottom in the organization to do anything about it. Because as I said on the Monday show, this team, this organization talks a big game sometimes, like, you know, into the media and this. They never make tough decisions. That's why I'm not convinced that true living isn't going to stay. What's the path of least resistance? That's all they do.

keep it simple. Everyone keeps their jobs and we run it back. It really does seem in some way to be a we hate playing for Craig Barrubey thing with this team. Yep, that could be part of it. Where they're just, you know, again, I don't watch nearly as many Maple Leafs games as you do and all that kind of stuff. I don't consume the, like, Leifes chatter more than any other team, really. but the overwhelming impression I get is that like again it just goes back to the thing of Craig Barubi being like I can't make them think I can't make them play good I can't make them care and it's like cool man so what's your job again yeah you know what I mean like if he if he's reading this laundry list of problems he has with the team which I gotta tell you I think are like he's right to have these problems with them But aren't you a fucking NHL coach who's won a Stanley Cup?

Like, isn't your whole thing supposed to be able to be like, well, no, I can like motivate these guys. I can turn them into the best versions of themselves, whatever. Like, if you're a coach and you're telling the media, I don't have any fucking answers here. I don't know why you're still like getting the paycheck. Unless you've been asked to coach the 20 biggest babies in the league, in which case I've, Yeah, like, I mean, Burubi's getting fired.

There's no, no question about that. There's no defending his job secured or anything. But yeah, the players hate playing for him. They hated playing for Mike Babcock. They seemed okay with Sheldon Keefe, but anytime he even mildly criticized them, they would cry to the boss and make him, Keith would get marched back out and like have to take that.

I actually didn't mean to say that about Mitch Marner. Yeah, of course. So, I mean, they don't like, I don't know what level of. player coach they need to, you know, for them to actually seem That, you know what?

I think you might have just stumbled on the answer. When's the last time we had a player coach in the NHL? Oh, okay. Morgan Riley. Or maybe, I think Nealander is more they, like he's just a chill dude, man. Like, isn't that? Boy, I tell you, you want to place a bet on who's next

with the target on their back? in terms of like everybody really the act is not yeah the too cool for school act worked okay when the team was getting 100 points a year I don't you may want to dial it back now buddy

but yeah he's actually going up to individual media members I'm really mad about all this that happened he should he should put that this is on background but I actually I'm furious I'm not, yeah, I'm actually laughing. It's like, yeah, no, we saw you in the press box actually laughing.

We, we know. The thing with Barouba is, like, do you fire him now because the team has obviously quit on him? And you're going to fire him anyways, so why not just put him out of his misery? I personally, I say keep him until the end of the season. These guys hate playing for him, good. We hate watching you. You can hate playing for the next month.

I don't, you know, I don't want to see him fired. Yeah, and on top of that, you want, you want them to lose so you get the draft pick. And the draft pick, and, yeah. And if the 19 of you that have no trade clauses want it to maybe... That's why Adam Foote still has a job, I think, you know? Like, we might, we're going to change the coach. What if we get better?

We don't want that. Yeah. So, you know, really, I have no idea. But, yeah, Baruch, I got to say, man, like I... And part of this is, as people know, I really like Burubi as a player. So, you know, I'm biased here. And I like the hire. When the Leafs hired him, I thought he was the guy.

Hasn't worked. Obviously, there's going to be a change this year. But I just can't imagine. Like, if people don't know, you know, if you're younger, you're a newer fan, like Craig Barube played in the NHO for a long time as an enforcer. Not like a Tom Wilson type. like a Tidomi type. Like he fought his way into the league

and fought his way to stay there. Can you imagine him watching that Austin Matthews play? Play out? I don't have to imagine it, brother. I saw it happen. Wouldn't you... Wouldn't you pay like $100 just to see unedited footage of that intermission?

Oh, yeah. Or Craig freaking Barubi has to come into the room and be like, guys, your best player just left the ice with a shredded knee. I can't even imagine, like, it must have, it must have been the most bizarre thing for him to feel like he needed to explain that to hockey players. Yeah. But anyways, long story short, I hate this team and I want them, I want the entire thing blown up.

Hell yeah. So you would trade Matthews this summer? If he was amenable to it? I'd certainly explore it. I'd explore it with Nealander. The problem with the Leafs, though, is, well, let me start over again. One of the many...

One of the many problems with the Leafs is they don't have their next two first-round picks. Not only this year's going to Boston, which everyone knows, but next year is going to Philadelphia. Yep. What did they get for that, by the way? That was Scott Lawton. Oh, I bet he's still a great contributor to that. He was probably, yeah, he, I can't remember how he reacted to the Matthews.

Oh, it says here he played for the Kings. Okay, so. It would have been really funny if you got through the ducks, but, you know. It would have been. I'd explore it all, but they don't have the two picks. If the pick this year did wind up in the top five, which is unlikely, but if it did, then the next two picks roll a year, but now they're unprotected.

So you can't really do like the full, tear it all down, finish last rebuild plan. So you almost have to do the retool by default, but I don't think anyone should be safe. And even like, it was a big story in Toronto that like word got out that Matthew Nyes was apparently part of conversations at the deadline.

And people are like, well, you can't trade Matthew Nyes. It's your only good young, player. Yeah. And Matthew Nyes, like 26? How young do you think this guy is? No, I think he's younger than that.

But any sign cheap and all this stuff. But what does Matthew Nyes done to be untouchable? Like, is he Sidney Crosby all of a sudden? You can't even listen if somebody, like, yeah, no kidding. It's 23. Okay, you're right. Like, he's one of only three guys on the team that anyone would want. So sure, you're going to have to, like, you can't,

if you're like, Matthew Nyes, Austin Matthews and William Naylander are untouchable, but we're going to make big changes. Right. Oh, boy. Where does the line form? Yeah. Are you guys going to be trading Dakota Joshua? Oh, can't wait.

And the thing, too, though, is, you know, you're talking about they don't have their picks. You know how you get your pick, get picks back is you get Austin Matthews on the trade block. And you go, yeah, he's going to cost you two first and a roster player. And I think there are a lot of teams that would go like, that's no problem for us. that's it two firsts and a roster player i think you can fucking have them you could pick your uh you know you you could really get plenty for him yeah i think it should be it should be open but it can't be true living making that deal oh no for the record like yeah because true living would be like okay that roster player what you got any 34 year old defenseman who can't skate anymore you got

any of those kind of guys do you have any forwards who've had one good season that i can immediately give 10 and a half million dollars to. He rocks, man. What a great hire that was. He's such a good GM. I mean, I guess the good news to come out of this is that like this thing about him calling up players to yell at them,

I guess his phone does work. That's nice. Yeah, for him, not for anybody else. They got Bradrow Living a functioning telephone. That's good. That's progress. He had, you know, for a while his phone. Like he didn't really, like his SIM card had fallen out.

And he was like, the games on his phone still work. But he's like, how come nobody's calling me? Yeah, he was basically like the phone equivalent of like, how do I print a PDF or whatever, the parents are always calling their kids with. There's no way Brad Truliving knows how to print a PDF. Not a chance. Anyway, that's a, that's any other teams in this league? Yeah.

So let's quickly talk about the rate. And what's interesting is I have already seen, like, local media members starting to tweet out, like, well, bad news, folks, the Canadians one or whatever the fuck, like, about any given game. And it's like, yeah, I guess we are down to, like, kind of scoreboard watching time in the east, at least. Mm-hmm. Yeah, last night was Detroit and Boston playing at the same time was a pretty big. night. And because there's one, two, three, four, five, six teams all between 81 and 84 points in the east. And then there's a couple that are in the like 77, 79 range. Like Ottawa's surging. Columbus is right, is right there. And also playing quite well lately.

You want to talk about a thing that goes to overtime constantly? Yeah. they they're 5-1 and 4 in their last 10 so like you know and even if you're like okay well Columbus isn't going to win tonight well they're probably going to get at least a point out of this one you know so it's interesting I get I think I said this on on the bonus episode yesterday like I'm not convinced that any of these teams are all that good and like Tampa Carolina and Buffalo are the three that I think everybody's like undeniably those are good teams in the east.

Right? But even Tampa is in that 81 to 84 range. Yeah, they've gone cold. It's a games played thing as well for them. But like, that's what we're dealing with you. They've lost seven in the last 10. No, for sure. But like also they've played fewer games than everybody else in the Eastern Conference.

So it's not as bad as it seems like, but as you say, it's still not good. So. If you had to pick right now. Yeah. In the East. Who do you think's in and out from the current? Oh, I think this is the eight. The eight current teams.

I do. Really? I don't think. I think Ottawa is catching somebody. They're playing really well. And they don't have a ton of runway, but they've got, I think, enough. So. Boston.

Like, they're four points back of Boston with one game in hand. So, I mean, that is doable. Obviously, I think it's just the, um, and they hold a tiebreaker over everyone, which is we're getting to the point of year where you got to talk about that too. Frankly, you know who I think Columbus is more likely to catch? And I don't like saying it because the vibes are so good around that team is the Islanders. Yep.

Um, I just, you know, when I, when I, when I'm looking at who like a good team versus a not good team is, I do, just think at the end of the day, like, goal difference is something we should be considering here. And I'm not saying, like, Boston's great or anything like that, but they're, they have a better goal difference than the Islanders, the Red Wings, and the Blue Jacket. So, like, if you're saying Ottawa hops in there, that makes a lot of sense to me. I think they would be more likely to pass the Red Wings than the Bruins.

Mostly what it is is, I think Jeremy Swainman is good, you know? Yep. And David Posternak is good. But, yeah, Boston got a point last night. They play the HABs tonight, which is tough, back-to-back games. Yeah. So they're going to have two, or sorry, rather, like Ottawa and Columbus will have two games in hand on them. I don't, Columbus might play tonight.

Ottawa doesn't. But yeah, it's in the mix for sure. It's 10 teams going, well, you know, it's, again, Buffalo and Tampa and Carolina seems safe. Everybody else feels live, but it's whatever, 8 teams going for six spots, seven for five, whatever number you want to say it is. There's a lot of wiggle room and it's all, you know, God, the East just goes to fucking overtime so much.

The Penguins have 15 overtime losses this year. How the fuck is that possible? That's like one and every like four and a quarter games go to overtime for them. Yeah, they've had 20 overtime games. It's unbelievable. It's almost as if all of these teams are playing for overtime all the time. That's interesting. But then in the West, you could really tell me,

I mean, at this point it kind of looks like it's three teams going for one spot, Seattle, L.A. and San Jose just going for that last wildcover spot. I had Nashville in the mix there, but even, and Winnipeg. is Winnipeg's hanging around. Like, Winnipeg, it's the Connor Halibook factor, right? Like, totally, yes. Could he, but it really is. But they shit the bed this past week, right?

Like, they had some winnable games. They got a couple wins recently, but yeah, they felt that they were, they were right there. The whole, like, oh, Winnipeg might still do this story was playing out. You know what's crazy, though? What's that? You mentioned those teams, Seattle, L.A., San Jose. Yep. Okay.

Seattle's 71 points, King 71 points, Sharks, 70 points. All fighting for a playoff spot, baby. All, you know, right in the mix. Someone's going to come out of it. Someone's going to look good. You know who else who has 70 points this year? The Maple Leafs team that we just talked about for 45 minutes being the biggest disaster, the biggest train wreck.

Everybody should be fired. And which, by the way, I'm not going back on whatsoever. And yet. the kings are one point ahead of that and they're right in there. But hey, race is a race, man. You do what you can do and... You can only play who's on the schedule, I always say. That's it.

You know? It's a very top heavy conference, let's just say. And, uh, I mean, I feel like if you did a survey, if you didn't, maybe if you excluded responses, directly from L.A. or Seattle. Like, it's 100% sharks, right? Everybody wants the sharks in. That's who people want.

I don't know how confident people are that that would be the case, though. You know what I mean? They have... They're tied with the Cracken for Win percentage, which, you know, doesn't... Or points percentage. They're one point back with a game in hand.

Mm-hmm. They could do this. Seattle owns the time. It would be fucking sick if they did. Celebrini versus McKinnon. Dude. I... We can...

We could, like, tweet this. If Seattle or L.A. did get in. Like, if we, does anybody really audit the standings? If we just subtracted a couple of points from Seattle, would that really be... It's one of those, like, you need a guy in, like, to emerge from a dusty old office being like, it says he had the bylaws, you know, like...

Yeah. There you go. Says here the tiebreaker is actually how long you've been in the league? Oh, that's weird. we really need to crack this one. I agree with you, obviously. Like at some point, for the good, I mean, you're not, none of these teams are beating Colorado,

so just, for the good of them. I said it, I said it when we did the bonus episode yesterday. I think Seattle's, I think Seattle's going to do it. They might. Absolutely. It brings me no pleasure to report this, but that, that is, that is kind of how I'm feeling about it these days. And again, I don't think any of these teams are.

good. Like, they're going to, they're going to make the playoffs with like 90 points or whatever. It's like, who fucking cares then? You know, that's nothing. So it's just, for me, what it would be is like, here's the number of points you need to make the playoffs. If you don't reach that number, you don't make the playoffs. Yeah.

Like, if only 12 teams have 95 points, then that's it. If you don't get to 95 points, then the other playoff spots are filled by fan vote. and we just Oh wow The Toronto Maple Leafs and made it again What do you know? Just the Leafs crying

No we don't want to do it again No you're doing it Get out there Frankly their fans are also like I don't want to fucking watch that shit Fuck you Nobody would want it But you're going to play Buffalo

All seven games are going to be in Buffalo They're going to be on back to back to back nights And you have to play all seven Even if you lose all seven Now that would be You're not even allowed to leave the rink. You have to sleep in the dressing room.

We're always talking about it's a gate revenue league. This is a great way to do it. It's a best of seven no matter how. And you've got to play all seven. There it is. That's like, uh, no, wasn't that the format for,

is necessary. He only changed one letter. Just, um, anyway, yeah, that, that's whatever.

Like, I can't, I can't get too worked up about any of these teams. Like, how good are they? who gives a fuck. They're going to finish with 90 points. And then they'll beat the Colorado Avalanche in the first round.

I mean. Although Dallas is closing the gap lately. Seattle Cracking fans are like, are you sure we can't beat Colorado? That's what I mean. We've seen this movie once before, man. I don't know. But yeah, you're right.

Dallas is, Dallas is turning it into something, although they finally first regulation loss in two months. That's crazy. A bunch of absolute bums. And you know what? While we're talking about it, let's talk about this. This is an NHL news, but it does affect the NHL.

Reported this week that the NBA's expansion process will be opening up this week. They're having like their own, I don't know what they call it, but like their own version of the Board of Governors, basically, where they're going to start the process to allow Seattle and Vegas to get expansion teams. Where did they come up with those two cities? I have no idea. But. Hard to say. I'll tell you this.

Like, it's a good thing Seattle's around the playoffs this year because otherwise... Uh-huh. You've been saying this for a while now. Well, again, I was just like, you know, when I read the local news, there would just be an article every like four months or whatever. Like, do people actually give a fuck about this team if they're not any good? Like, is this really a hockey market, et cetera? Like, and we know it's a bad. basketball market.

And we always knew that there was, you know, not even the possibility, the likelihood that they were going to get an expansion team when the NBA expanded again. So it's looking like by like 2008, we're going to have an expansion team in Vegas and Seattle. Now, they're doing it the cool way where there's actually going to be like a real expansion draft. Oh, they're going to do it two at the same time? I think so. Oh, expansion drafts rock, man. They're so sick. Yeah.

And so, like, I think that's what's going to happen, you know, two, three years from now. But, you know, there's a whole process to this, I guess. But it does make me think about, like, I don't, I think the golden nights are just going to be number one in that market for as long as they, you know, we would. We're trying to move the A's there. The Raiders are there. They don't seem to have as much cultural valence in Vegas as the Knights do. Yeah. And so I don't think they have to worry about that in Vegas at all.

And NBA teams here, great. That's fun for us. I've seen this mentioned in a few places, but we really do have to, like, you actually do have to give the NHL credit for having the vision of being first into Vegas. Absolutely. A lot of us weren't sure if it was going to work. Could not have worked any better. Well, I mean, part of the reason it works so well is now you're just allowed to bet on sports as much as you want. It's mandatory.

You have no choice. Yeah. No kidding. So, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, should they just have been called like the Aces or the Blackjacks or something? Yeah, they should have. But that's the way she goes. All right. Schmaltz, 8 by 8.

Have fun on July 1st, everyone. It's going to be a great day. No kidding. Yeah. I'm going to, you know what, I haven't actually looked at the updated list in a minute of, like, who is, uh, who's actually even going to be a trillionaire. And, yeah, no kidding. That's, they're actually going to be like whatever team he signs with. He owns them now, like Mario Lemieux.

Mm-hmm. And he deserves it. Um, yeah, it's, it's going to be a, uh, a bad day, in my opinion, for UFAs. Let's see here. And it's going to be a great day for stupidity because Cap going up, lots of teams with money and nobody to spend it on.

Oh, it's going to be a real good day to. Yeah, because the cap's going up so much now. Okay. Give me the, try to guess the top 10 expiring Aavs in the league right now. That will be UFAs specifically. Bobrovsky's number one, I'm pretty sure. I believe that is correct, yes. He's at $10 million.

Although, you know, he stinks now. We can all agree. I mean, Tuck doesn't make that much, but he's got to be near the top. Tuck is 14th among skaters. And let's see here. You know what? I was wrong. Bovrovsky actually has a lower A.A.V.

than another UFA goalie carry price. Yes. Okay, good call. But, yeah, Tuck's 15th overall. Maybe that's good. If we're not counting price. Hey, you never know. If we're not counting price,

Tuck is 15th overall in expiring A.A.V. There's some big names on, almost all big names on this list. And you know what? Shea Weber is also on this list. So we can take him. We can take him off the board as well. Bump tuck up to 13.

You're looking for some character. There's a guy for you. Man. What? Okay, who's old and crappy now and they're... I'm trying to think of like... And another one, now that I say this, I'm seeing Anse Copa Tars there as well. He's retired. Yep. So, think about other guys who they're talking about, oh, maybe he's going to retire instead of...

Oh, okay. So Malkin? Mm-hmm. That's one of them. Is Latang up as well? I don't think he is, although the way he's been playing, he should be. Ovechkin is up, isn't he? Etchkin is up. That is the number one skater AAB. Wow.

That's up in the air. Crosby's not. Nope. Who else is? Like true superstars you are out of. Go down a tier. Hmm. Think a young guy, a guy in the Matthews style cohort, I believe this is his first

UFA year. Oh, geez. Well, I can't be very good if. Correct. He's not very good. Very good anymore. Is it one of the Stromes, Dylan Strom? He might be farther down the list, but no, this is Patrick Linae is a.

Oh, yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, that would be in the Matthews cohort for sure. Yeah, good call there. Okay. Guy who just got traded at the deadline, it was a big deal. From east to west. Who are the rentals at the deadline?

Carlson. Correct. 36-year-old John Carlson. Mm-hmm. One of John Carlson's teammates. Beyond Ovechkin? Current team, new teammates. Oh, current teammates.

Is Radko Goodus, a free agent? He might be, but he's not... He's not making top ten money. Who is... Oh, geez, is... Like, are we up to the... Is Troy Terry available again? No, he's just signed a year or two ago, a big extension.

Mason McTavish? No, he's in trouble. for other problems, though. Jacob Truba. His eight-year deal is up this summer. Not bad. A teammate of Evgeny Malkins that I think anybody would be forgiven

for not remembering that he is on this team. Eric Carlson's not up, I don't think. No, he isn't. He's got one more year. So who is? Kevin Hayes. Oh, God. Yeah.

All right. he's played 25 games this year it says here Okay I'm looking very quick He has three goals and two assists in 25 games So I'm looking very quickly to see when his last point was It's been a while I think And he's also missed some time obviously

But he does not have a point since December 13th I don't know that he's going to get a big deal out of this one guy on the islanders that for a while there was he was one of those guys where it's like well we couldn't let this guy walk and it's like you couldn't just one of their checking line guys no he's he's more one of their scorers but he's also 35 years old um and scorers is maybe being a little generous this year under's lee it's that's exactly who it is okay and uh we just mentioned nick schmaltz it's a name that sounds like that.

Oh, um, Jordan, uh, you're close on the first name. Yeah. Uh, Jaden Schwartz? Correct.

He is also up this summer. Um, um, and so that is a good mix of guys who are quite old and it would be inadvisable to give them a big contract or guys where it's like, yeah, I guess like Jaden Schwartz is pretty good.

Dude. He's also 33 years old. Dude, I'm not even kidding. If Kevin Hayes, if you're listening to this and you plan to play in the NHL next year, you're not retiring, wait until somebody lightly bumps up against Sidney Crosby. This is a good idea. And then jump him and pound him into Smithering, get a 10-game suspension, and the Toronto Maple Leafs will pay you $3 million a year. on 12.15 p.m. on July 1st.

Just saying. You know who's going to make a shitload of money? You think I'm joking, but everybody is nodding right now going, this is. I just sorted by points per game. You know who's going to make a shitload of money this summer? Forget Alex Tuck. Give me Darren Radish 1741-58 and 58 games. He is going to be the guy.

Good for him, man. That's a guy like who thinks about Darren Radish? having a point of game season? Hell yeah. Damn. And you know who also is going to get maybe a big contract here? I bet he stays in Pittsburgh. It's Anthony Manta.

He's got 26 goals and 67 games. So. And then you don't even want to know who the fucking goalies are that are available. I do not think I do. Other than the Brobroski. And even then, do you want your team to sign him? No. No, of course.

But I'll tell you this. The RFA's is a cool list. Robertson, Bedard, Leo Carlson, Cutter, Gautier, Pavlore Fiav. These are really fun players. Trevor Zegras, Adam Fantilli. That's what, I mean, they're not going anywhere. Yeah. Offersheets could be interesting when everyone's got that money burning a hole in their pocket.

Yeah. And then don't look up who the RFA goalies are. Except Jet Greaves. You want to talk about a guy who's going to get a shitload of money. That could be all right. Oh, boy, brother. Go after him and Fantilli. I wonder if, like, they deal double.

Yeah. It's a great point. And I think I just said two ducks as well. I clicked away from the page. But like, same gimmick, right? Like, give it a whirl. See. Just find out.

And then, yeah, the goalies besides Bavrovsky are Marasik, Brasua, Freddie Anderson, Stu Skinner, he'll get some money, Stu Skinner, Will. Cam Talba, Connor Ingram, Jonathan Quick, etc. Those kind of guys. Sergei Bavrovsky,

here's another $10 million a year. Anyway, the Nick Schmaltz deal, I think, is like too long because he's 30, and it's eight years, but the money's fine. Yep. You know, like, everybody said this. This isn't an original thought, but you know, they

gave him the extra years to bring the AV down, I wouldn't be doing that. I wouldn't be doing that if I were them. But that's what they did. It's like such an obvious strategy. And like I don't knock them for it necessarily. I just wouldn't, I just would have been happier to give them nine for six than than eight for eight, you know. Or however that math works.

You want $65 million? No problem. How do we get that done to five years? I can't, I can't be, you know. I can't be paying this guy until he's 38 years old. Hey, speaking of contracts, Cole Hudson signed.

Yay. Excited about this as a diehard Capitals fan? Yeah, being the big Caps guy that I am. Sure. Let's get him. See what he can do. Why not? Really good, really good college player.

Boy, B, you had a strange season. Did you see the Hullabaloo with their with their, I guess you would say, like third best forward, Sasha Boisbert? No, I did not. I love a hullabaluth, so. Okay.

The story is this. All throughout the season, he's, their coach Jay Pandolfo, long time NHL player. He's, he's basically doing the, uh,

the, uh, Craig Barubi thing where he's like, I don't know why these guys are, are playing the right way. I talk to them, I tell them how to play the right way, they just don't do it.

I don't know what to say. Okay. And that happens every, like, fifth or sixth game this year. We're like, they'll look good for a couple of games and then they'll just absolutely shit the bed. And you're like,

didn't you guys go to three straight frozen fours? What happened here? And they're like, we don't know. And so, they're kind of like a locus of this kind of, of discontent where he was the lead, I want to say he was the leading scorer, maybe the number two scorer at North Dakota last year and had like a extremely average season after transferring to BU, extremely average, which is to say, therefore disappointing, right?

Like, he went from 18 goals to three. We'll put it to you that way. and and so they have B.U has a do or die game this past Wednesday and he is not in the lineup. And after the game, the coach says, well, it wasn't a healthy scratch. He just wasn't available and I don't want to say anything else about it. Uh-oh. Especially because the previous, like Friday or Saturday, there had been a story in the Chicago media quoting, the Blackhawks assistant GM going,

yeah, we're going to sign him at the end of the season. Okay. Which they, you never hear that. You never hear. Yeah, I know he's got like four or five games left.

We're going to be signing him though. Um, and it turns out they only had to. But then the hollow blue kind of died down because he was just like late to a team meeting or something like that. It was recorded. Yeah. But a lot of drama.

He just signed. But it just is kind of. typify. He was a first round pick for Chicago a few years ago. But it does just kind of typify like how BU's season went. Very disappointing. Wouldn't be surprised at all if those two guys signing

are the first of an avalanche of signings for BU and college hockey in general. It's that time of year. Teams are getting eliminated left right and center. After this weekend, only 16 left. Anyway,

Speaking of first round picks, the Ottawa senators were told you actually did get a first round pick this year. Who could have seen this coming? Oh, everybody. Other than literally everybody. But, oh, well. And you know what? Probably rightfully so. I mean, this, they screwed up a trade.

The guy who screwed it up is out of the league now. I don't know. They still get a first, but it's, they drops to, it's, they're locked in at 30 second, which considering they could still miss the playoffs is a pretty big drop. They get a million dollar fine. Like, I feel like that's enough. I don't, I, I, I, I just wish this wasn't so predictable.

Like, everybody said this at the time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the crazy thing is, well, I mean, not crazy, but the, maybe frustrating thing is, they, you know, they had three years to choose

when to use their pick. Mm-hmm. So what if they had chosen to give up their pick last year? Would they get a back? Well, why would they? Exactly, because everybody knew this was coming. Remember when the devils

yeah? They had a year where they were, they went to the final and they still didn't give up their pick. Mm-hmm. Because everybody knew this was coming. Yep. So. Because at the end of the, the day, the league, like the people who make the decisions at the top of the league about this kind of thing. It's probably just Gary Betman, or at least, you know, him in a close circle.

They're going to get on the phone with Mike Landlauer and go, yeah, you don't have a pick anymore. Mike Landlauer is like, I just paid like a billion fucking dollars for this team. Are you fucking kidding me? At which point they say, okay, we're going to give you the pick back, but we're going to wait till right after the deadline in the third year so that you can't trade the pick, but, you know, we're going to give it back to you. But try to act surprised.

Yeah. And I mean, so they also find him a million dollars. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. And then somebody was like, well, a million Canadian. And it's like, man, they can't even, come on. Come on. He doesn't have an extra like $250,000 or whatever the exchange rate is. He's got to look in the couch cushions.

That's what I mean. Million dollar Canadian coin. This guy's a billionaire, like several times over, I'm pretty sure. You couldn't find it in your heart to be like, it is an American, although the way things are trending these days. We're going to reach parity pretty soon, I think. So, yeah, you know, worth noting, I guess, but like not in any way surprising. World Cup of hockey, they announced that yesterday. Pretty cool.

Sure. the host cities are Calgary and Prague. They're getting seven games each, six round robbing games and an elimination game. Then Edmonton for the semis and the finals. All right, great. Yeah, but this is the catch with six, or yeah, I guess with with six round robbing games, that means there are going to be eight teams in this tournament. Yes.

We don't know which teams yet. We don't, but that does raise the Russia question. Yep. And it'll be interesting to see where that goes because this isn't going to be an IHF event, but you would imagine the high IHF, which continues to ban Russia and Belarus from international play for all the various things they've done. you know, it'll be interesting to see what the IAH reaction to this is. Yeah, and realistically, from the NHL's perspective, they've got over a year to figure this out.

I think the reason they didn't name the teams is because they don't know what the teams are going to be yet. They're going to hold off and see. I think in a perfect world, purely from a hockey perspective, obviously you've got the Russians involved, but there's bigger things at play. But yeah, it'll be, I mean, eight teams is a good number. Even if it's, and if it's not Russia, it's for reasons outside the league's control. So you can't blame them. But yeah, it'll be a good, good mix.

It gets you all the major countries. I did see somebody point out, like, if you allow Russia in, there's no guarantee that, For example, Finland necessarily wants to play at that point. Yep. And there's a whole mess. They'll figure it out. Maybe not in a way that everyone likes, but I just think best on best hockey is cool. And it'll be fun to see it.

Yep. Yeah. And they're doing it mid-season. Yeah. That's the other thing that I was going to say is it is in like February or whatever, just like the Four Nations was. So everybody will be. You know, because has the World Cup ever been in in the midseason?

No. The World Cup slash Canada Cup was always a September. That's what I thought, yeah. Now the Four Nations, which is kind of was sort of World Cup light, was obviously midseason. Yep. Yep. Calvary and Edmonton here in the U.S. I would have guessed. Calgary's new arena.

Yep. I would have guessed for sure that it would be one U.S. building. Yeah, that's a mild. surprises that there's no U.S. representation. But I got to tell you, I'm not surprised at all that it feels like Russia's going to be involved. That doesn't surprise me even a little bit.

So, okay. Anyway, yeah, I guess that's it for the show this week. So, Sean, why don't you say some plugs? Find me at the Athletic. I'll be on the athletic hockey show with other Sean and Frankie tomorrow.

Sure, Frankie might have some interesting things to say as a Former NHL defenseman. I wonder if he ever saw his team's best player get laid out. And subscribe to the newsletter and get me at the Athletic for my written content. I think we're bringing CapCorp back this week. Wow. So it'll be, yeah.

And it turns out, I'll spoil it now. Every contract in the league is good now because the cap is going up. It is? They're all fine. Wow. You're free, Jonathan Huberto. He's actually having a really good year this year. He is.

And then for me, elite prospects, all kinds of college hockey coverage over there. As I mentioned, this is championship weekend, the best weekend of the college hockey schedule for my money. Just a bunch of conference finals and semifinals and teams getting eliminated basically starting from probably like 9.30 p.m. on Friday. right through to probably 10 or 11 p.m. on Sunday, or a Saturday, I mean. And then the selection show is on Sunday. I will have all kinds of coverage of that this week. I will have an NCAA preview for you early next week with, you know, a look at every team in the tournament and all that.

So this is the time of year in college hockey. For me, I get so excited about it. Check it out. And then head over to patreon.com slash puck soup, where you can find all kinds of bonuses. episodes including we we kind of like did a bonus episode yesterday where we kind of did the Oscars for hockey but like stretch the definitions of words so that they could better fit you know hockey players and teams and things with this nature so uh check all that out and thank you for listening and again the happiest of st patrick stays to you go get yourself a

a shamrock shake. Celebrate responsibly. With a shamrock shake. With a shamrock shake. Uncle O. Grimacy. Diamond Doink winner himself. All right. Thank you so much, everybody.

Have a good one. Bye-bye. Oh, bye.