Puck Soup - Making Our Picks

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Sean and Ryan talk about the Four Nations Face-Off and pick rosters for every team, plus the Jiricek trade, the Rangers, and more. Sponsored by Gametime (download the Gametime app and use code PUCK for $20 off) and AG1 (drinkAG1.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McIndoo from The Athletic. And folks, we are roughly one day away. By the time you hear this, I guess, little more than that by the time we hit record. From the announcement of all the rosters for the Four Nations faceoff, an event that I struggle to remember the name of. Do you remember how to hyphenate Four Nations Face Off? Nope. I'm assuming there's a...

there's a dash between face and off? I think they do. Yeah, I think they've... I don't think that should... I don't think that's right. No, I don't either, but then I don't... I don't agree with many grammar rules. We get, like, an update at the athletic, like, once a week where they're like,

here's some tips and reminders, and I'm just like, nah. Pass on all that. That's wrong. Sorry, EP style guide. The reason I struggle with it is the Frozen Four and in college hockey. the NCHC has what they call the frozen face off. So I'm always wanting to insert the word frozen somewhere into this. I got freaking Elsa on the brain, okay?

And yeah, I just keep being like, well, that can't be the name of it in my head when I type it out or when I say it. But it's the four nations face dash off. There you go. So I guess the big question. Are we excited about this? So I am excited about the tournament. I've made the decision to just enjoy things and to be on board of this. As I've said before, I'm a big fan of the World Cup, previously the Canada Cup.

So I'm making the decision to take this in the spirit as intended as, The new version of the world up. That's right. No, Ryan, I am trying. I'm trying to view it as, look, we have been begging for best on best for a long time. We're finally getting it. Getting some version. Well, I mean, we're getting some version.

So, I mean, yeah, we don't have the Russians around to try and fail to finish third. But we do have the three best hockey nations in the world. and also Finland, who are always feisty at this kind of thing. I've decided to enjoy it. Now, am I excited for the roster announcements? Not really. For a couple reasons. First of all, it just feels early to me.

Like, I don't, to me, they should announce it like two days before. I'm with you. There you go, man. Get on a plane and go. Especially since it's all being played in North America. Nobody's, you know, we don't have to work out a bunch of travel documents. to send people to Japan or well, we'll talk about some travel documents

in a minute, brother. One notable exception. You don't have to worry about travel documents. So that's problem. The other problem is I'm Canadian. And the more I look at these roster previews, I'm like, did we, like, is there somebody missing?

Did we like forget to add? I could have sworn that we were going to have a better team. So I am not looking forward to seeing the final rosters and realizing how far ahead the U.S. will be at least initially. Because who knows? Two months, a lot can happen and in a hockey tournament, a lot can happen. But I think it's very clear at this point that Team USA is going to have a significantly

better starting roster than Canada, which is not something I'm going to enjoy. Yeah, I mean, we put, you know, this is podcasting 101. We put together our rosters. That's going to take up an hour and 45 minutes of this podcast today. That's, you know, is the good. Lord intended it. And the great news is, I said it last week, the great news is, we also get to do a bunch of reactions to the actual rosters that come out tomorrow next week.

This is just, this is easy stuff for us, you know? But I'll say this, I put together my rosters and I'm a little less enthused about the U.S. than I thought. The forward depth, a little bit of a problem, I'd say. Is it? But we'll get to all that. One thing I wanted to talk about really quickly here before that is, do you know what the schedule for this is? I do not.

I was looking at this morning because I was like, when do they play this again? I really don't think I know, I guess. And you're right. They're announcing these rosters like two and a half months early, which is crazy. It's weird, especially since it's not like there's any opportunity to like get together and practice or do any. thing. Like there's no... Right. So, and of course, you know, I guess we should say if people don't know, if in the event of injuries, they can, of course, still swap guys out right up until I believe the day before the

tournament. Correct. If I'm Canada, I'm picking three injury goalies. I'm just saying, I'm putting it out there right now. That would be my starting point. I'd pick three. Yeah, carry price, and carry price. That's right. I'm putting care. I'm seriously, I put carry price on the right so that I can punt on really, really hoping that we have time to, like, I feel like we still have enough time to develop it. There's got to be a good, like, 23-year-old Canadian speed skater somewhere. We can strap it. That's what's going to be, like, figured out, buddy.

That's right. It's like when NFL teams are just like, oh, this guy was a good wrestler, so we'll just draft him to be a defensive line. Our punter is an Australian rules football player. Yeah. He has never put a helmet on in his life, but we're going to figure it out. No worries, mate. That's what he says about putting on a hell.

And again, Russell Martin, the former Major League Baseball catcher, it's pretty much the same skills. Same idea, yeah. Just crouch down and work the glove. So, yeah, to your point, the schedule is there's a bunch of NHL games on February 9th. Then there's no games on the 10th or 11th. Then it's Canada, Sweden, I believe, in Montreal. then USA Finland in Montreal. Or maybe,

now I don't remember. Whatever it is. There's a bunch of, there's more games in, in Bell Center than TD Garden. I'll tell you that for sure. So it's Canada, Sweden, then U.S. Finland.

Those are on back-to-back days. Then there's a day off. Then there's a day where it's both Finland, Sweden, and USA Canada in Montreal again. And I believe, Leave the one day, then another day off.

Then I believe this is the Boston games, Canada, Finland, and USA, Sweden. Right. Then there's two more days off and TD Garden hosts the championship game. Then there's another day off and the NHL season resumes like the following Saturday. So the way it works out is I believe seven games in 12 days. Yes, that does appear to be. Well, it's seven games in. Did I do the math right?

It's even less than that. I think it's nine days. Well, but you're right. With all the days off built in. Yes, correct. So that's weird, right? Like, is that not strange?

Like this like long of an international break for seven games? I get you want to have days off and all that kind of stuff built in, but. I think you have to, right? I mean, you can't have Connor McDavid playing. No, there shouldn't be bad. Back to backs, but I don't know. To me, I'm just like... What they should do is they should start the season on, like, back up with, like, crappy teams.

That, like, where you're just like, you're not going to have anyone. Well, that's what I was going to say is like, you know, the fact that it's in the mid-season, one of the big things they always bitch about when they have to play in the Olympics. The NHL doesn't get any benefit from this. Oh, well, you know, great news for you, bud. Now they do get benefit from this But they're really jumping back into the schedule So the championship games on a Thursday

The 20th of February And then on the 22nd Like every every Almost everybody's playing There are 14 games on Saturday the 22nd Starting at 12th, one of those days where it starts at 1230 And then the last game doesn't end until 1am basically Which is cool

That sounds fun Yeah But it's weird that they're throwing everybody back into it, especially because there's 14 games on that Saturday. The following day, the Sunday, there's 10 games. So even the NHL's kind of going, maybe we shouldn't have packed this so tight. Because there's going to be a bunch of guys,

you know, let's say Canada, you know, is in the championship game. That Thursday, you know, you're going to have your, your McDavid and your, your Crosby and, you know, all these guys. Oilers Flyers 1 PM a day, a day and a half later, basically. Caps, Penguins, 3 p.m.

Just feels like those guys are really being put through the damn ringer. It's tough. But also, they're only playing a max of four games in 12 days. Yeah. All these teams. So, like, that's it. It's four games. There's going to be a, um,

a middle ground where there's not so much time off and things are maybe distributed a little better. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, you do feel like you could, like, I don't know, could you squeeze an extra day before the championship game, that sort of thing, play it on two days rest. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Well, anyhow.

The other thing we do have to talk about here is that, let's put it this way. This is how dire, to your point earlier, Sean, things are for the Canadian goaltending situation. They're looking at Joey DeCord being like, I wish we could get this guy in. Oh! And, you know, Joey DeCourt's a good goalie. But if you're, like, begging and pleading to get Joey DeCord in

and every other team has, like, you know, Vesna winners and stuff like that on there, that feels like that's not the best news. No. But in addition to that? Yeah. I really want Joey Decord on this team. Of course.

I really. Here's the thing. Even during like the summer and certainly last season when the details of this came together and everyone was like, oh no, Canada's not going to have great goaltending. I felt okay about it for two reasons. First, I figured it's goalies. They're weird. Somebody's going to start the season on fire. somebody is going to be

we're going to get yeah opening night you're going to look at it and say oh Canada doesn't have goal tending but by December by the time December rolls around somebody that you're not even thinking of

is going to be like in the Vesna conversation and it's going to be fine and then the other thing I said is all it has to be is fine because the actual Canadian roster is going to be so dominant and so stacked

that you know we don't need Jake Onger we just need B minus goaltending and some You can win four three, no problem. Exactly. Yeah.

And now we're sitting here in December, and not only is the roster not as good as I was thinking it was going to be. But I think it's fair to say that my whole magical thinking of somebody will just randomly step up has not happened. And if anything, some of the guys that had been discussed have not had good seasons. Underperformed, yeah, absolutely. It is a mess. Like there is There is nobody that I've Yeah and this is why I'm always saying

You guys need to have a symposium up there Really get to the bottom of this You know Start maybe letting Not letting foreign kids into the CHL That's a possibility We're going to have a elementary subcommittee And we're going to

We're thinking Tariffs Oh yeah I love this On foreign goaltenders If your goaltenders If your goaltender isn't manufactured in Canada, you're going to, you get like an extra 20 points off your save percentage. But yeah, so this is the thing about Joey DeCord, folks. God.

He's an American. God. Well. But he was born in Canada. Mm-hmm. And his mother is Swiss. Right. So, technically, he could play for any one of those three countries in, uh, in, um,

in international play. And apparently there was a situation last year where they wanted to get him into the world championships for the U.S., and he said no because he was rehabbing an injury or needed to start rehabbing an injury, something like that. And then that apparently maybe opens the door for him to play for Canada. However, like, he doesn't necessarily need to be bound by that because this isn't an I-IHF, like, approved event. Right. And so his, the issue right now is that he can't be named to Team Canada tomorrow because he doesn't have a Canadian passport. Passport is the agreed-on

determinate of where you can play. Rather than coming up with a complicated series of rules, the NHL just said, if you have a passport, you can play. If not, you cannot. Done. But here's the thing. If it's all fucking made up anyway,

let them play for whatever team Europe. Like, who gives us shit? You know? Like, are we not trying to, like, maximize the entertainment value here? It sounds to me. like you're open to my idea of letting these teams trade with each other. I wouldn't say trade, but I think like, you know, if a guy has like, you know, Canadian residency or...

Connor Hellibook lives in Canada, I'm pretty sure. Now, am I just angling to get Sidney Crosby on Team USA? That, you know, maybe, you know? Nathan McKinnon, hey. This sounds like a trade scenario. Yeah, I guess maybe on some level you're right. But I'm also thinking like... I'm not shopping Sidney Crosby, but I am listening.

I'm also thinking like, you know, that right side for the U.S., that's not looking so hot. Maybe we say, hey, you know where Miko Ranton lives? Is the United States of America? You ever think about this, folks, you know? We should point out, by the way, to make this even worse, Joy Decord, not actually born in Canada. He was born in Boston. Oh, his dad's Canadian. I believe his dad is Canadian.

So it's tenuous. It is, yeah. Yeah, that's right. It's not great. And yet he is at this point, I don't know if I'd say head and shoulders above the other Canadian options. I wouldn't say head and shoulders, but it's... Head or shoulders? Yeah, you pick. I'll let you choose.

But yeah, you know, it's funny that the, he was born in Canada thing. That feels like a real purple monkey dishwasher thing, where it was like his dad's Canadian. and then that filtered through various intermediaries down to, you know, he was born in Toronto, Ontario. He was born in the Hockey Hall of Fame. This is one of the most Canadian guys you're ever going to meet. Playing on the frozen plains of Manitoba. That's exactly right, brother. So, yeah, dad's Swiss.

He's American. Dad's Canadian. Or, no, mom's Swiss, dad's Canadian. He's American. We're going to make this work. Yeah. And I got to say, if I, I, I got to say, if I, I don't know what the paperwork is for getting a passport if you're born in the United States.

But up here, you can get one pretty quick if you check the right boxes. Apparently the issue was he didn't want to go to Canada to get it done in time for this. Oh, God. This guy's going to be the starting goalie, and he doesn't want to go to Canada. Like, that doesn't, that to me feels like maybe you're not eligible for him. for Team Canada if you fail the do not want to go to Canada test. Well, look, I do, I do respect. National hero, Joey DeCord.

Well, you know, I do respect that the Americanness coming through of like, yeah, I'll fucking get around to it, man. Get off my back, you know? We're just a little bit lazier down here. That's nice. But anyway, let's move on. Can we just point out the potential here for a pro wrestling style backstab? by dastardly American joy decor is off the train painting a, spray painting a yellow stripe

down Connerick David's back. After he gives up nine goals in the championship game and then tears off his jersey to reveal that he was American all along. It's too bad the championship's not going to be in Canada. They could be throwing garbage at him while he cuts a promo. Championship's going to be in his hometown of Boston. That's right. One of his many hometowns.

Yeah, that's true. You know, he's from, he's from Bern, Switzerland as well. I couldn't, I couldn't pull the capital of Switzerland, so I had to revert to the one where I know there's a hockey team. Really good shit. I'm good at, I'm good at knowing stuff. But yeah, let's move on to, let's talk about the rosters we came up with here. Okay. And we'll start, we'll go in alphabetical order, just for you, Sean.

We can start with Canada. We can get your crisis moment out of the way. And these are the guys who are currently guaranteed, barring injury, I guess, to be on the Canadian roster. Sidney Crosby, ever fucking heard of them? Yeah. Kale McCar, Nathan McKinnon, Brad Marchand, Connor McDavid, Braden point. Pretty good. The Marchand selection has not aged super well.

But. Yeah. I feel like he would still be on the team. Yeah, he probably would be. So this is kind of like the first ballot Hall of Fame versus Hall of Fame thing. Like, who cares? Yeah. There are, however, I would say, a couple of guys where you're like, you know, if we're circling back to this a few months later, maybe we don't have, you know, Eric Carlson and Mika Zabandajad on the,

Well, maybe Mika's advantage ad, but Eric Carlson, I feel like they'd be like, why don't we get a redo on that one? Mm-hmm. But that's tough. Yeah, anyway. So that's five forwards down for Canada. Yeah. And one defenseman.

And who else do you have on your, who are the obvious Canadian forwards? Obvious? I would say Mitch Marner and Mark Stone immediately jumped off the page to me as like, guys, you have to have. I've seen a few lists that haven't had stone on them, and I guess that's just because of health, but I did have both of those guys on, and then the other one to me that I think is a no-brainer at this point is Sam

Reinhardt. Yes, I have him on my team as well. Yeah, of course. I think he was a guy that heading into the season, we're all kind of like, oh, let's wait and see if this is, last season was it all real, and he's been great. Yeah, he's been really, really good. Yeah, you know, it's fun.

the injury thing. Like I kind of played it as a lot of these guys will be healthy or, you know, look like they're going to be healthy. Well, I mean, as we said, if somebody's not healthy, you can swap them. So putting a guy like Mark Stone on. Yeah, that's right. It is a good move because he's either going to be healthy or he's not, in which case you get to make a pick closer to the deadline when you've got more information. Yeah. And also, when healthy, Markstone is fucking awesome. And frankly, when even not particularly healthy, when you get like 80% of Marksone,

you're like, damn, what a hockey player, you know? You know what's going to be very funny is when, like, a week from now he gets put on the LTIR and yet is healthy enough to play for Team Canada that makes he can't play again until game one of the playoffs. That's right. Look forward to that. So who were your,

Who are your more like edge cases? So I ended up putting, you're, I went with two guys that are both sort of feel like 50-50 and maybe feel like 50-50 in the sense of you got to pick one or the other because they're both guys who aren't necessarily great defensively. But I'm going to put both. Give me John Tavares and Mark Sheifley. I have Sheifley. I do not have Tavares. I totally get the, I was watching the Leaves game last night.

They were like, you have to have them on the team. you definitely don't have to, but he has been good this year. Yeah. And he has international experience. Yep. I get it. I think that I'd put him on my team. The other three spots, okay, so I went with Travis connecting.

I have him as my 13th forward. Yeah, 13th. Okay, my 13th forward is Nick Suzuki, but I wasn't too worried about position and that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. And then the last guy that I put on here, and this is maybe the, the surprise, but I'm going, I am trying not to overreact to what's happening this year, especially in the first two months of a season, given that you've still got two months to play out before. Right.

And I could actually realistically see this guy more being somebody who gets his game back on track and it's the first guy up when there's injuries. But I put Stephen Stamco's on the team. I get it. Yeah, makes perfect sense why you would do that. I don't have Stamco's. I think he's been bad this year. He has been. And I get you taking...

By the fact that it's John Cooper picking the team or helping to pick the team does add a little layer of drama in there. Yeah, no, I get why, you know, you would defer to veterans. They'll probably do that. These are hockey guys or whatever, you know. So the other guys I had, as I mentioned, connect me. I have Sam Bennett. Yep. I have Dylan Strom who's currently tied for second in the league in points.

And I have a guy who's having a shockingly good season, who older guy at this point kind of fills the John Tavares role, but I would say having a similarly good year is Tyler Sagan. Yeah, Tyler Sagan's having a really good year. That would be fun having him on there. I got to be honest, I didn't even really have him on my radar, but that's... There's another guy, can I say another like veteran guy, you know, center that you would obviously have playing the wing, you know, if everybody's healthy and everything like that, that I really thought about and I just kind of went with Sagan over him is Sean Monaghan.

Mm-hmm. Because the only reason why is we say it all the time. If you're put in a position where you're getting a lot of power play time and you're on a not very good team, you're going to rack up points. Yeah. Monaghan's having an awesome season in a lot of ways, but also I just kind of feel like, like you said, two months from now, maybe we're not talking about what a great season Sean Monaghan's having when results start catching up in Columbus, you know? I got to say that the Tyler Sagan, seeing him score the winning goal for Team Canada over Team USA. In the gold. Where's the gold medal game held again?

Oh, right. Yeah, that's right. Austin. Wouldn't that be fun? I want a camera on Cam Neely for the mixed reaction of that. Yep. Good Canadian boy, Cam Neely. By the way, I just looked in Mark Stone is apparently back practicing already.

So we're good to go on that front. Let's move on to defense. Obviously, we're locked in with Kail McCar, but that's the only guy that we're locked in. And again, there's not like, and even compared to like years past where it was like, Remember when like P.K. Subban would win the Norris and you're like, we just don't have room on the right side for him. Because we got Weber, we got Duncan Keith. It's a good group. It's not a great group. I think that's a really good way to put it. Yeah.

I've got Alex Petrangelo. I've got Devin Taves. I've got Shea Theodore. Teodor, you know, you could do the two Vegas guys together. Yep. You're 4-4-4 on those? Yeah, yeah, that's right. And then it gets a little weird. I'm still putting Evan Bouchard on there. I have him as my seventh, but it gets a little weird here because of injury. He could certainly work as a seventh guy where obviously this year has been a bit of a step back.

And as with a few of the other guys that I've mentioned, you get that nervous, like, oh, man, this is best on best hockey, and these guys aren't great defensively. But how often do you see it where you focus so much on getting the defensive guys and then, oops, we can't score? Oops, Dominic Haska is shutting us out and we've got Rob Zamner on the team as the extreme example. Having some guys who can create offense, especially when you're going up against a team that has selfishly hogged all the

Vezna goleys. That's right. I think it's pretty good. The other two guys I picked were Josh Morrissey. Yep, same here. I went with Noah Dobson. Okay. Yeah.

I picked Dougie Hamilton. You guys. Yep. Can't go wrong. The other thing to say, though, and this is the injury part talking, Drew Dowdy, should be back ready for January. That's a month and a half from now or whatever. But can you leave Drew Doughty off a team Canada and a best-on-best-on-best

tournament while he's still playing. I don't know. I think you can in this sense in that you can say, like, he's not healthy right now. Right. We're only picking guys who are healthy, but, you know, we know injuries are going to crop up and he'll absolutely be on the radar for. Yeah. For the record, I put him as like in parentheses, you know, I was like a guy that probably

will get consideration and be talked about. But right now, I mean, I haven't fucking seen him play this year, so I don't know. Or you put them. on the, like, I wonder what the injury, like, if you put Drew Doughty on the roster right now, and let's say he comes back in mid-January, and he's playing, but he doesn't look great. Yeah. Are you allowed to say... Never mind. Yeah, no, I don't think so.

Oh, I mean... I wouldn't think so. If Drew Doughty says, you know, after, like, with a knife in his back, but, you know, says, guys, I don't, I don't feel healthy enough to do this term. and I need the time off. I need to focus on my NHL team, what have you. I don't know. They should really have,

they should be, if they insist on naming rosters this early, they should be doing 12, 6, and 2. Yeah, I agree. And have one extra spot available. Because that would, it, just from entertainment, that would give us like a more debate to continue with.

Yep. Anyways. They should just roll out like one lineup at, like one starting lineup at a time. Just like, here's three forwards, here's two defensemen, here's a goalie, two weeks from now, here's three more forwards, here's two more defensemen, here's our backup goalie. Every week you name three guys and remove one. I love that.

Oh, man. Juggling it all around, man. This would be good stuff. Yeah, that way you're like, wait, Canada put Brandon Montour on their roster? And then it's like, well, I mean, yeah, they did. But a couple of weeks from now, he's getting the boot for Dougie Hamilton. so don't sweat it, you know. But yeah, so again, I think there's a lot.

This is going to happen, folks. There's going to be a lot of overlap here. I think we had the same seven defensemen. Well, you had Hamilton. Oh, right, that's right. So we had six and seven. And I also, I guess I should also say, yeah, I had Morrissey. I should also say that I did, maybe again, it was just watching the Leafs game last night,

but I did have Morgan Riley, like, on there. as a guy to think about. I've seen people say like Chris Tanev should be considered just as purely that defensive penalty kill it's the last two minutes and sure man.

All right, great. Let's get McKenzie Wigar out there. You know, like, okay, what are we talking about? He's shown up on a lot of lists too. I get it. And he's good. I'm not like, I'm not saying he's bad. You're telling me you don't want to see Chris Tenev

cross-check Austin Matthews in the neck and put him on the shelf for six months in the dying seconds of the dying seconds of a team Canada. Do you want that? Not right now, but talk to me in February. Fair enough, brother. All right, let's do, let's do goalies.

I wrote down, I think, seven goalies here that are possibilities. And if you mush them all together, do they add up to one Connor Hellebook? Probably not. Give me your starter or, you know, whatever, however you want to do it. So I want to Jordan Binnington. Okay, sure, yeah. I went with Aden Hill and Logan Thompson. Okay, I have Logan Thompson.

I have Bennington as my presumptive three. Okay. Who do you have as the starter? Thompson the starter? Yeah, I have Thompson's the start. He's playing great. What can you say? He's the closest guy to what I described as the guy who would kind of come out of

nowhere to earn his way onto the team. Yeah. I mean, he's a 1A on a very good team. He's been a part of that success story. in Washington, but... Well, there's one other guy that kind of fits this bill. Okay. Cam Talbot.

Yep. Cam Talbot was the guy that I went back and forth on with Hill. Some other guys that I had, like, just on my list or whatever. Darcy Kemper, McKenzie Blackwood, who's actually having a not bad year. And for lack of a better option, really, Jake Allen. Those are guys. thought about, but, you know, ultimately it's just like, you go with the hot hand, Talbot and Thompson are the two, like, oh, that's nice. Cool. Thanks. You know, that kind of, uh, oh, I didn't see that

coming, but good for you guys, you know. Um, I do wonder if just for shits and giggles, they'd go like, uh, and Mark Andre Fleury's our third goalie, you know, but I wouldn't put them on my team personally. So, yeah, that's what. That's where I'm at with it. I would put Carrie Price on this just to just to buy myself. Carrie Price, Martown-Rodier. Uh-huh. Yep, absolutely.

Bernie Wolf. Yeah, man. You got to do it. So, yeah, obviously a lot of overlap there. One guy that we didn't, that we didn't, neither one of us that sounded like head up front. That is probably worth a mention. And the injuries are part of this.

But Zach Hyman. I need a guy who's putting the puck in the net, brother. You know what I'm saying? Plug him right in with Connor McDavid. I think that's part of the selling point. Well, sure. Yeah, of course. But, yeah, that's, okay, so that's interesting.

And then the other one is there's a lot of Brandon Hagel talk. Yeah, he's having a good year. Why not? And just sort of like a different type of good year. Like as a guy who maybe is not, you know, Tavares and Shifley and those sorts of guys play one offensive style. This guy is a different one. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Finlay. No, we're going alphabetical order. Oh, okay. We're going order of Finnish. Folks. All right.

Finland, got to be honest, don't care a ton, but let's, uh, give me, give me, give me your guys. It's, well, it's, it's also tough just because it's like, yeah, I mean, I mean, there are like, 35, I looked it up. There are 35 finish forwards in the entire NHL this year. You, you're starting to what it feels interchangeable pretty quick. That's total skaters, there are 35. There are 25 forwards and 10 defensemen.

That's it. Tough. So these are the guys that are locked in on the roster right now. Barkov, Rantan, Aho, the one from Carolina, and not the one from Pittsburgh. Heiskenen, Lindell, Saros. These are the guys who were locked in with. So three forwards, two defensemen, and a goalie.

So I'll hit you with my forwards, and you let me know what you think about this. Michael Granland, having a great year. Arturi Lechinen, not having so hot of a year, but he's, you know, on paper, in theory. That's a really good player. and now we're starting to drop off a little bit. Desperi Cockton Niami.

Well, Ropei Hans, I shouldn't lump in with that. Yeah. Hance is the other guy that feels. Yeah. A. to Larista Rinen. Eric Howla, Capo Caco. Always good when a guy who's on the trade block is on your international roster. Anton Lundell, Ely Tollvinan, and Yuel Armiya, as my 13th forward.

Did you have Patrick Lani on there? I have him question marks because he's kind of in the Drew Doughty camp for me. So he's apparently very close to being back in the lineup. So I have him on my... Other than that, I think I've got the same group that you have. Yeah, I mean, at some point, you're like, oh, Matthias Maselli, I guess is like the only other guy you really think about. I saw a projected roster with Yassah Puli-Yarvi on it. And it's like, look, why don't we even just...

just not hold the tournament then. Well, we all just stay home for 12 days, really relax, hit the beach, you know. Like, how many injuries before you start seriously thinking that, like, 50-year-old team of Solani could probably fill a fourth line role on this team? Right. Yeah. Again, not many. There are only 25 finish forwards in the NHL this year.

And with all due respect to Rasmus Kupari, like, you'd have to get, you'd have to get significant. significant injuries before Yari Curry starts looking like an option. But I feel like Salani is not that far off. Yeah. So we had the same forward group in whatever order you want to go? Yeah, other than I headline. Right, of course. Yeah.

Okay. On defense, Heiskenin and Lindell, of course. Mm-hmm. Rasmus for Salinanin. Henry Yokohaariu. Miko Mikola. Yusovalamaki, Olimata. Mm-hmm.

Is that it? Yep. And I think that is the same list that Dom had and I think the same list that the other athletic list had except they had Yanni Hockenpao. Yeah, he's played two whole games this year. So I mean, why, you know, why wouldn't you have them on there, you know? This is some of that Toronto media bias that we're always hearing about this guy who's gotten into two games. He should be on the national team. And then you look and you're like, I get the argument.

Yep. It's tough. Goalie, I mean, it's Saros has to be the starter. Well, of course, yeah. He's having a, you know, I think he's gotten a little better lately, right? Am I right about this? He's been playing strong-ish hockey for the last little while? He's been better than he started.

Well, yeah, he started horrible. Is it Lankan and Lukinen as the other? Those are my guys, yeah. Yeah, I think that. that's kind of, that's kind of a given or at least close to. I mean, Lankinin's been good this year. Lankin has been really good this year, yeah. Guy is, yeah.

I mean, yeah, right. Like, this was what we were saying going into the year with Vancouver. It's like if they can keep it steady without Thatcher Dempco, and Lankin's the guy keeping it steady for him. Mm-hmm. Can we mention, though, honestly? how about Unisorpezalo, like, making it interesting a little bit at least? Yeah.

He's not getting into games as much, obviously, but he's got the same same percentage as Kevin Lanken and the guy were like slam duck. He's on the fucking team. It's, it is interesting because I don't know if you find this, but when I'm looking at something like this, it brings home how much of my opinion about NHL players is tied to, contracts and cap hits. Absolutely. Which is the right way to approach it.

You cannot do anything resembling evaluation of NHL players without factoring that in. Obviously, that's not a factor here at all. So there are guys where you're like, oh, that guy's a bum. And it's like, no, wait a second, he's a bum because of his contract. But you strip all that away. And maybe he is, maybe he's a guy that you need. to think about. Yep.

All right. Sweden. We'll start off. The team that's going to win the silver medal and screw up the big Canada, U.S. matchup wheel. Lock it in. This is a guarantee. Let's start off with, as usual, the guys who are locked in on the roster already.

Philip Forsberg, McGis Banajad, Willie Nealander, Gus Foresling, Victor Headman, Eric Carlson. So interesting there that they've got half the blue line already. Can I just point out William Nealander was born? Canada. Like, if we can get joy to court, is there not like a, there's got to be a way to make this happen. I'm with you, brother. This is what I'm saying. And very clearly, William Nealander wouldn't want that. So I don't think we tell him. I think we just, he shows up and we just point him to a different drain. He, like, he seems like the sort of guy who would sit there

next to Mitch Marner for a few minutes before he was like, wait a second. Hold the, hold the fort. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay, who do you got? All right. I have got I've got Elias Patterson. Yeah, you have to. I mean, you kind of have to. Like, I have him like high up,

high up the roster. Well, let me put it this way. He'd be my number one center over Mika Zabandigat. Yeah, Zavadad's stock dropping, let's just say. Brutal, yeah. Asper Brat, you have to have. You have to. Is Adrian Campi and the have to have?

I mean, yeah. If you look at the risk of the roster, like, yeah, you do have to have a guy who's running at like a point of game and scoring a bunch of goals. Absolutely. Joel Erick is, I think, the other of the no-brainer. It's a guy who probably isn't, but I do have on my team as Eliza Lindholm. I also, I have him pretty far down the depth chart, but yes, I'm with you. And then the guy, their team squad. Sweden always has to have, like, the one guy where you're like, right, that guy is Swedish.

Okay. Lucas Raymond. Yeah, he's having a very nice year. Lucas Raymond. Yep. And I like the idea of having Leo Carlson. I also have Leo Carlson on my team, yeah. Okay.

And that's where it got tricky for me. Now, did you have, okay, so you have Leo Carlson, did you have William Carlson? I have him as. one of my potential alternates. Him and Lucas Raymond were my alternate picks. Because I have William Eickland, like, locked in. I think that's a guy where, I think I've even seen reports where it's like, no, they already told him he's in.

So you're saying E5 on this one? Yeah, I feel like I have to. A little 2009 hockey humor for you. For all you 24-year-olds, there used to be this. Grandpa to explain it to you. But yeah, William Eklund, for me, is both on the team and already reportedly on the team. So he's on there. And then the guy that I'm kind of around like your Lucas Raymond, your wild Bill Carlson's, is Ricard Raquel.

Okay. Not having the best year, but also like, you know, he's got 10 goals. he can put the puck in the net. Maybe you can't do a ton else. But like, I'm not looking at this roster and saying there's a lot of scores on this team. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So I...

It's top heavy. It is. As the European teams tend to be when it comes to the forward rank. So I will actually swap in Wild Bill Carlson for Leo Carlson. Ooh. Again, as much as Leo Carlson's having. a very nice year for himself as how old is he these days? Like 22, 21?

See, there is, like, I always like the idea of when in doubt. Oh, God, he's only 19. Bring the younger guy. I'm with him. The guy who's going to be a big part of the Olympics, but going forward is... Well... Although we didn't talk about Connor Bedard for Dean Canada at all, which was... Didn't even really come up.

Didn't come up. I mean, he's not having a good year. I saw a headline, who would you rather have Connor Bedard or Macklin Celebrini? Yep, I've seen that in a few places. That's crazy to me. And, you know, Greg had a slightly different version of it where you're saying, who's going to make the playoffs first? And yeah, I'm –

The Connor Bedard's – boy, that's – I don't want to get us off track, but that is a developing story of – Capital S story, absolutely. Yep. Um, so yeah, we're, we're, again, mostly naming the same guys, but. And I feel like we're going to do that on the defense as well. Oh, yeah. One spot for grabs.

Fire away. Uh, so it's, uh, headman, Forsling Carlson already there. Yes. Uh, Rasmus Dallin. Lockham in. It's going to be there. Matias Ekholm, I think is going to be there. And I think Hampus Lindholm is still there, right?

We don't know. He has a broken. kneecap and I don't know that they have a timeline on him yet. So I have him as a question mark right now, but if he's healthy, yes, absolutely. Fair. But other than that, yeah, I don't know. The lists that I've seen all have Rasmus Anderson on. Yes, I would agree with that.

So who do you have is your seventh guy minus? Is it Brodene? It's Broberg. he was having a really nice year when he got hurt and he's you know two and a half months from now he's probably not going to be hurt and if he's continued on the trajectory then there you go lock it in okay he's having a nice year I don't know

yep that's uh that's a good one and if he's your and if he's your seventh defenseman you're in you're in fine shape yeah and also it's funny to be like hey the oilers remember when you let that guy who's on Team Canada walk, or Team Sweden, I mean. Oops. Yep. Big goof him up.

Who do you got in goal? So I think in goal you've got, I mean, you've got Markstrom and Allmark. And I think Markstrom's the starter. I'm not so sure about that. Really? And then. Philip Gustafson. Philip Gustafsson is the other guy.

Do you trust him as, like, he's your starter? He's your one? He's running 930 right now, brother. I can't line up against him to. hard. That's fair. Yeah, I would, I'd still at this point have Marks from Penciled in, and we should say just, if people aren't clear, they of course do not have to declare starters or anything. No, of course.

Just picking three goalies. But Allmark, well, Allmark's been better lately. He was good over the weekend in California, so he could certainly get there. But based on the first quarter of the season, he is not, he's on the team, but he's not in starter contention. Yeah, that's exactly right. But those are your three guys? Yep. Honestly, who else would even really get consideration?

There's just like not that many guys who are even starting a bunch of games, let alone playing well. Only nine Swedish goalies in the NHL, which I feel it's probably a decent number given there were only whatever, 64 spots. But, you know, the next guy up on my list here would be, Samuel Erson, with all due respect, like, please, you know. Without going into Team USA quite yet. Yep.

Have we, are there any goalies who are going to make another team's roster that wouldn't make Team Canada easily? Maybe Lankanin? Yeah, easily, I think, is the key word with Lankan. He would probably make it. All three Swedish goalies make it, right? Like, I mean, that's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

I think that's fair. Could have at least pretended to think about it. Sorry, brother. Damn it. All right. Team USA. Dda, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. All right, here we go.

Ryan's ripping his shirt off right now. That's right, brother. The locked in guys, Matt Kachuk, Austin Matthews and Jack Eichel up front, Hughes, Fox, McAvoy on the back end. No goal he's locked in as of right now, which is a little strange, but okay. Well, I mean, that's what happens when you have too many goalies. Yeah. We're not going to lock anyone in.

Yeah. I get it. All right. Who you got? Well, you drive the bus on this one. Okay. Brady Kachuk. Yep.

Alex to Brinket. Okay. That's already a guy that I didn't. Oh, he's a good player. I don't know if you heard about this guy before. Kyle Connor. Yep. Jake Gensel.

Yep. The embarrassing one himself. Instagram hockey, Mr. Jack Hughes. Talk about that more, but we certainly will. Hughes is on there for sure. Connor Garland. Okay. J.T. Miller.

J.T. Miller with a question mark. Obviously, we got to see if he's available, but, yep. He feels like he's, and the Rangers might damn trade for him. Dylan Larkin. Tage Thompson, Jason Robertson. Okay, oh, so you did have Jason Robertson, okay. He seems to have, like,

fallen down the list. I did have him there. I had him on my... Again, this is, this is, you know, if we're talking about who the 13th forward is, I guess I'd rather have the guy with the track record than, like,

Matt Boldie's having an awesome year, but also he's kind of like, this is the declaration that Matt Boldie's a really good player, whereas I have, again, just more of a, more runway with, uh, knowing Jason Robertson can play, you know? Sure. I had, uh, I, I had two guys that I don't think you had.

Connor Garland was one of the guys you had that I did not have on my list. Sure. Um, I Clayton Keller and Vincent Trojan on my. Yep. And, uh, I think if you're going Trocheck mode, you can also think about Alex talk, but with Trocheque. it's just like... Debrinket was the other guy that I...

Yes, that's right. Of course, yeah. And again, De Brinkett is... He's having a really good year, but maybe not a fantastic year. But I just think that, you know, you put him with a guy that can get him the puck and, you know, we're having a different conversation about... Sure. How effective he is.

But, yeah, again, like, it's just... If we had done, like, a list of 15 guys instead of 13, I think there'd just be a one-to-one overlap on who's on that team. You know? Team USA has always been very good up front, and they're one of those. But if you look at them and, you know, some people love to, I'm sure somebody will this week.

They'll do the exercise of, okay, here's what the B teams look like. Yeah, of course. And the death tends to fall off pretty quick, and like Canada's got the better B team, but hey, so what? Yeah, who gives a shit. You got the right number of guys at the right number. of spots to make a really, really strong team right now. Yep.

Blue Line, we've already got half of it taken up with really good players. Yeah. I'm thinking we're going to have at least three of the next four matching, but you go ahead and unveil. Werenski, Slavin, Carlson, Faber. Okay, so Carlson's the one that I'm a little, I ended up having him as my number seven, But I think it's, I'm a little surprised that he's emerged as such a consensus pick, but yeah. He's having a nice start to the year.

Again, two months from now, maybe we're not saying that, but also elder statesmen, you know, all that kind of shit. Like, John Carlson's a guy that the people putting together Team USA aren't going to leave off. And I'm not, I'm not going to sit here and grumble about it, given how well he's played this year. We don't know who they have dreamed about yet. So, I mean, we're still. the only other guy that that was really like pinging on my radar as like a guy that that would probably get a lot of consideration like you could say Thomas Harley you could say like Lane Hudson or Jake Sanderson if you really wanted to go uh you know youth movementy a little bit

but Noah Hanofin's the other guy where I'm like that's a veteran guy really well regarded not having the best start to the season but also like that's that's a player you know and if again if he's your seven then you're there you're there's you're you're there you're you're in great shape. And for goalies for Team Eose, I went with Phoenix Copley, Caden Primo, and Casey DeSmith. That's smart.

Yep, that's right. I, yeah, Hellebuck, Ottinger, and I wrote here, Decord just to be a dick. Nicely done. Is it Swamen? Is there a debate, given that, you know,

he didn't start fantastic? Yeah, he, I mean, he really didn't. I think it at least opened the door for a little more conversation about it. Like, you could say, if you want to say to me, Anthony Stollars, the start he's having in Toronto, who am I to argue? He's been awesome this year. You know, Dustin Wolves, another guy where it's like, damn, okay, he's starting, you know, as he goes, so go to the flames, he's starting to drop off a little bit.

But any thought of like, given the veteran deference to John Gibson? He's having a great year. He's trying to get himself traded. It might work. He's having an okay year, yeah. I mean, again, the third goalie typically in these tournaments. Yeah, it's only four games you're playing at the absolute most. There's no game against Latvia to, like, throw the third guy in.

Right. He generally sits in, sits in the press box and maybe, like, in your game against Finland, he gets to sit on the bench and back up where he lets someone else have a night off. Yep. doesn't really matter. But yeah, probably Swimming. You know what, given that, go with the younger guy in Jeremy Swamman. Yeah.

No, totally, absolutely. Again, though, it's like Team USA three, well, two all-world goalies and a third probably very good one in Swayman, although not off to a great start. And then, you know, it falls off reasonably quickly. Like you're not that far off of Team Kemp. Canada territory from there, but you guys have the exact right number of guys to just kick some behind in this tournament.

You know what's funny? You said go with the younger guy and Jeremy Swayman, and I was like, just something pinged in my head where I was like, is he younger than Jake Ottinger? And he is not. He's a month older than Jake Ongier. Yeah. Same age, but I don't know. Joseph Wall, let's get him in there.

Get him some experience winning something in Boston. Austin. Like you said, like who gives a shit? Put Caden Primo in there. You think that if Caden Primo sees the ice, something has gone really, really, really wrong. So, you know? All right.

So here's, if we're going to do that for the third goalie, why not Dustin Wolf? I'm with you. Potential goalie of the future for Team EOSA. Maybe that's the guy. Maybe that's the guy. Who's the GM for Team EOSA? That's a good fucking question.

Why am I blanking on this? It's not Sweeney, right? Sweeney's Canada. I'm pretty sure. So, because that would be very funny if they didn't pick Jeremy Swayman. Now I'm going to look this up. Hold on. Face off GM USA 40, Bill Guerin.

Yes. Of course. Yeah, that makes sense. So Matt Bouldy will be on Team USA. I was kind of hoping you guys would pick for you. I forgot about that. Yeah. Anyway, again, a lot of overlap here.

We're not, you know, we're not trying to split the atom. This is a pretty easy, straightforward exercise at the end of the day. But I guess, you know, again, next week we'll get to talk about how right we were or weren't. Yep. Now, I'm going to delete all this off my computer. I don't want to look at it anymore. So someone is going to have to tell us how right we were, but we'll get there. So, yeah, why don't we go take a break and we'll come back and we'll talk about some other news that happened in the last few days here.

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To get this offer, that's drinkag1.com slash puck. Start your new year on a healthier note. All right, we're back. And let's start off by talking about the big trade that happened just the other day. David Irychak out of Columbus after a bit of a saga there. Remember all this stuff? Like even last year where they're like, oh, we're demoting him and all this. And it seems like he can't skate, et cetera, et cetera.

He goes to Minnesota with a 2025 fifth round pick for depth defenseman Damon Hunt, a 2025 first round pick, a 2027 second round pick, a 2026 third round pick, and a 2026 fourth round pick. And that first round pick is top five protected even though the wild. I think have the best points percentage in the NHL. Yeah, it's going to be real tough for them to finish in the bottom five. but, you know, I guess technically it could happen. I wonder if at this point it's possible for, I guess they could go O for whatever the remaining. They haven't mathematically clinched,

but we're getting a little out of control with the protected picks. I still, the best one of all time was a few years ago where the Islanders had like a conditional pick if they won the Stanley Cup and also top 10. protection, like modern protection on a pick in the same trade. Ultimate respect. You've got to cover all your bases. Interesting trade.

One that was kind of... So he had asked for a trade. Right. But it certainly doesn't sound like he forced his way out. It sounds like he was like, hey, please trade me and Columbus was like, absolutely. We're on it. That won't be a problem for us. Thank you for checking it.

A really fascinating case where the team that drafted a guy clearly soured on him. And this is one of those things where you've got to be at least a little nervous if you're Minnesota. Absolutely. The team that knows him best was like, yeah, we're out on him. Right. It's not very often you can get a guy who was a very recent six overall pick for a draft pick that is probably going to be in the mid to late 20s. that seems like a good bit of business for Minnesota

and some other picks tossed in there which aren't, you know, second, third picks have value. But it's clearly one of these we think we can fix them and Columbus saying, good luck with that because we couldn't. Because as you say, the guy apparently can't skate.

That's the story emerging. You would have thought somebody would have caught that the scouting process. But yeah, this dude can't skate. Can I say that plus the fucking headline on like the wild's reaction to, like the wild players reaction to having this guy practice with them? Yeah. In the headline, it was like, holy shit, this guy's tall.

Yeah, crazy. Oh, tall. Noticably tall and can't skate. I'm starting to, I'm starting to see a little vision of the future here that I'm not too enthused about it if I'm a wild fan. But, you know, look, the wild. It is interesting, right? Because it does just reinforce how the league has changed in that even six-foot-four

defensemen have to be able to escape in this league. And that didn't used to be the case. Absolutely. It used to be the case that you'd be like, he's tall, so we don't care if he can escape. We'll just have him stand in front of his own net and cross-check people. And it's going to be fine. So it's a fascinating trade, and it's one of those, you know, obviously we always do the need-your, winners, losers' reaction to every trade and probably shouldn't, but we do because it's fun.

Yeah. But this one is, this is like last year the cutter-go-thier trade. Like, there's no way we're going to know who wins this trade anytime soon. Right. But it's going to be fun to watch. Like if Minnesota can get him back on track and he looks like, a guy worthy of a sixth overall pick, then we're going to potentially look at Columbus

and go, you guys screwed this up. You drafted a guy, screwed up his development, traded him at his lowest market value, and saw him turn out to be a good player in a better organization. Or we're going to sit there and go, you know what, Don Wadell cut his losses.

He didn't get trapped in sunk costs. He traded a guy for a pretty good package, before the rest of the league figured out what Columbus already knew. Yeah. The guy was a done. Somebody, you know how you can like add up the value of all these draft picks

or whatever and figure out? And they were like ballparking it, whatever. All the picks that Minnesota gave up is worth roughly eighth overall. Okay. And that feels about right for a slightly devalued former number number six. a number six pick from just a few years ago.

I just don't know if he's only slightly devalued at this point. Because I got to tell you, I wrote a week or two ago when it really felt like this trade was becoming inevitable. Like I wrote a thing just kind of in passing where I was like, this situation's weird. That a guy, you know, normally, right, we talk about guys are high picks. They get all the chances in the world. Totally. We've all seen it with our own team, right? Where there's one roster spot,

and you got the first round pick, and you got the seventh round pick who's playing better, and the first round guy gets the opportunity. And I said, you know, it's just weird to see how this is playing out. And I had a lot of Columbus fans be like, it's not weird at all. This guy isn't good. He's not good enough to be in the NHL right now.

We're trying to have a program of accountability and all this stuff. He's not good. He's not one of our six or seven best defensemen, so down in the minors he goes. And they were pretty okay with it. Yeah, you don't want to be in a situation where you're like, you know who we should trade for is the guy that can't make the fucking Columbus Blue Jackets right now? That's not the best situation to be in, you know?

And obviously from a Minnesota perspective, they don't need them to be good right now. It can be a project. Yeah. But the other piece that I do find interesting is now they don't have their first round pick this year, which if they are legitimate cup contenders, could have an impact on what they do at the deadline. because that's typically the currency for your deadline rentals.

Yeah. But the other thing I wanted to say about Yerechik, this is a right shot defenseman, who's another right shot defenseman who's roughly the same age as him is Brock Fabor. Brock Fabor looks like that's your right shot first pair of defenseman for the next 10 years or whatever. So Yerechik doesn't have as much pressure on him to, like you said, live up to the number six pick. you know, we don't need this guy to be better than Brock Faber. Brock Faber fucking kicks ass. Middle pair guy is just fine.

Yeah, that's what I mean. So, like, if he's playing slightly fewer, obviously you wanted to be able to skate. It goes without saying. But if this is a guy where you can throttle back the expectations and still feel like, you know, you're getting, I don't even want to say number eight picksworth. Like, if you feel like, oh, yeah, I remember, I can see where that guy was a first rounder. You know, like, I think that's a win for Minnesota. And, you know, they don't need him. Like, Columbus needed Yerechek, a guy they used the number six pick on to be that guy.

And now Minnesota doesn't have that same kind of pressure for a bunch of different reasons. So I like it from that perspective for Minnesota, too. Obviously, they have Zeebuy him coming in, end of this season. and what was he the also like the eighth pick or something like that or 14 mate i can never remember where guys go but he dropped a little more than people thought he would and you know maybe that's your future first pair left side defenseman and all of a sudden we're just having a really good conversation about all the 20 to 23 year old minnesota wild defensemen who are quite good and if you want to lump your check into that awesome and

And if he doesn't quite get there, it's a bummer, but it's not like the end of the fucking world in the way it would be if it was Columbus, you know? So I like it for Minnesota. I like the gamble here. But if it doesn't work out, I'm not going to be like, who I can't believe it. You know, so that's all I really had to say about that trade. Big Damon Hunt guy. College hockey player. I don't think so.

See, I guessed. What are the odds? What are the odds? I don't know. What is it like 40% of it or 35% of NHL players are former college players? Is that what it is? It's something like that, yeah. Yeah, he played for the Moose Shaw Warriors.

Of course he did. You didn't know that? I did. I was just testing to see if you knew it. Yeah. I wouldn't have guessed Moose Jaw. You know, you just say, that feels like a WHL guy to me. That's as far as it needs to go, you know?

Sure. Maybe now I'm going to have to start learning all like the Tri-City Americans and all this kind of stuff, you know, like who plays where because they're going to be playing college hockey next season or whatever. But I'm not there yet. I got some studying to do. So it's still got the Brampton Battalion out there. Is that still that that's not a going concern? I know that is a different thing now, isn't it? I believe it.

Maybe I don't know. but what's next? When do we get to make fun of the Rangers? Right now, let's do it. So I put the Rangers like with a question mark on the outline and I sent it to Sean. And Sean was like, well,

I didn't want to talk about the Rangers when you sent it, but now I look at their score and they're getting their fucking teeth kicked in by the Minnesota or by the New Jersey Devils. So I guess we do have to talk about them. And then, mere minutes later,

Unbeknownst to both of us, because we were both watching the Leafs game, I guess. Sure. Steve Vallicott really gave us a reason to talk about this game and this team. He accused the devils of playing Instagram hockey. You don't want to be doing that, folks. You can't be playing Instagram hockey. Can't be doing that. What is this?

2012? We need you playing TikTok hockey, folks. We need you, we need you, you know. This is like saying like Snapchat hockey three years ago. Yeah. We're not playing those games. Timely reference. Although, I mean, I think all of us have had the experience of going on Instagram,

and it's just nothing but hockey moves. You're like, oh. Mm-hmm. Man. For me, it's mostly, they're always trying to show me pictures of birds. That tracks. They're always like, see this. The algorithm works.

You see this Scarlet Tanager, and I just give it a big thumbs up. Thank you. You don't even follow this guy. No. No. So it was Jack Hughes tried the Forsberg move. He did. And I will say, one of the worst Forsberg attempts I've ever seen in my life.

It was bad. It's too slow. It was way too slow, man. And also, like, it just seemed like Igor Shetirken was like over, like, he was already reading that play. You know, it hit him straight in the, like, middle of the pad. It wasn't even, it wasn't even he got a toe on it, you know? Anyway. You're not allowed to do the forest.

The key thing here is, if people didn't see it, because we're describing a game where they got, where the devils blew them out. It was five. Five one was the final. He didn't do this when it was five one with a minute left. Right. He did this in the first period.

Right. So basically, he just tried to score too good. Yeah. This isn't like, was it, Lars Eller doing the, like, between the legs move on, what is our 7-0-0? Yeah, I think you're right about that. Yeah. So, nonsense. Like, just absolute.

Well, the other thing is, I believe it was Pete Blackburn pointed out this morning that Vladimir Tarasenko scored on a four for a goal for the Rangers, like less than two years ago. Okay. There you go. Instagram hockey. Instagram. I don't. No. Like this.

I almost like sometimes these sorts of debates are fun to have, but this one doesn't even feel that fun because it's like, everybody knows he's just crying about it. You know what? Definitely don't try to score on the best goalie in the league in Korea. He tried to embarrass Egorishistur. Try to embarrass him. Now, I don't see Steve Valicat out here denouncing the great Stan Fisler.

Piggy Iggy. Piggy, Iggy. Piggy, he was eaten last night on that one. That is so fantastic. Did you see, by the way, that Stan Fishler this morning called Shasturkin the Rangers back up? And that's, like, that's part of the reason. Like, you're going to take the devils more seriously than this and start Jonathan quick.

That was his big argument. He hates Igor Sturkin. That's fantastic. Well, speaking of New York columns, Larry Brooks, I don't have the whole thing because it's you have to pay. And while I'm more than happy to pay for content. Maybe not on the New York Post. Yeah.

But here is the Larry Brooks post-game column, how Chris Dury needs to meet this moment of Rangers' crisis with the entitled Corps that keeps failing. Whoa. As I wrote yesterday, this is a team. They've made the playoffs three straight years. They've been to the conference finals two out of those three years. They've won a president's trophy.

And they would be in the playoffs at the playoffs. of the playoffs started state. This is the best team I've ever seen at this level of crisis. And I'm not saying that to imply that they're fine and this is overblowing, but I have just never seen a team have this much success and the perception be that, like if you just heard about the Rangers, you would expect to find that they're one in 22. A hundred percent.

So here's the first two paragraphs. The Rangers do not play again until Friday when the penguins come to the garden, but the next three days will be the most critical of a season that is fast becoming a sinkhole. President and Jim Chris Drury has the responsibility to hold a heart to heart with his team, both as a collective unit and in one-on-one meetings to determine who exactly wants to be here and who is too unhappy to play for his teammates. He doesn't say unhappy. There's a different phrase in there.

but it the storyline coming out in New York is basically like these guys are quitting on each other. Yeah. Entitled court doesn't want to play like I know there's a lot of Mika Zabanajad bashing

going on. There's there's a lot. I mean it feels like it's everybody. But it does sound like this whole thing's imploding and they've lost what, six to seven I think? Yeah, something like that. So it's, you know, And the only game they won, the only game they won, they barely beat the Montreal Canadiens who outshot them and all that kind of stuff.

So they have not beaten an NHL team in seven games. That's right. But the funny thing about that, so the Larry Brooks article from the other day, I believe before the game was it's time to blow up the Rangers Corps. Then they beat the Canadians. The trait that the Rangers have been missing most finally returned. And then it was like they're playing for each other. They're fighting for each other. Jacob Truba got in a big fight got his ass kicked in the fight.

But that's, you know, at least he's fighting all this kind of stuff. And it's like, this is the article. We both wrote about the Rangers this week. And the article I wrote about the Rangers is you never want to be going like, it's all fine. we got to figure it out, oh wait, we lost, this team sucks, blow it up. You cannot be doing that from one game to the next if you want to be like considered a good and competitive team, you know?

And I can chalk a lot of that up to like, look, you know, this is the New York media market. They overreact to everything. Larry Brooks is not the kind of guy to have a really measured take all the way through the season, really stick. to his guns, what I thought on day one is, you know, kind of borne out by game 82, all this kind of stuff. I get all that.

But also, like, right now the Rangers are by points percentage, seventh in the conference, you know? And the team that is below them, the Boston Bruins, well, No, the team that's currently in the playoffs, but below them, like there are a few teams, the flyers, the lightning, I think even Columbus all have better points percentages in Boston, but Boston, because of the divisional format, is in the playoffs right now. But the Bruins already fired their fucking coach, you know? And they're not, let's put it this way.

The Bruins are 12, 11, and 3. The Rangers are 13, 10, and 1. There's not like a huge, amount of daylight between those two things, those two records, you know. And if things keep trending the way they are, it looks like the Bruins are maybe pulling out of the skid a little bit, and the Rangers are not. And, you know, they could be passing each other on the escalator. And if a team that fired its coach already, you know, ends up in a better position

than you buy, let's say, mid-December, Christmas, however you want to define it, then, yeah, you're in a fucking huge crisis. I don't know how else to put it. But, like, wasn't this the thing me and you were talking about with the Rangers in, like, September? Like, this was a possibility that, like, if the stars aren't, like, going crazy and they're having, you know, all those guys are having good years, but maybe not great years. Isn't this, like, a pretty likely outcome just because the depth just isn't. there and hasn't been there for several years now several a few years let's say isn't that what we've been saying for that was the concern yeah that was always going to be the concern and i what is

so fascinating to me on this is we've seen a million times boston included team goes through a stretch like this all right coach is going to get fired and that could absolutely still happen like last night after the game there was like they were like 20 minutes late on the peter laviol at press conference. More than that, according to Larry Brooks. Okay. He said approaching half an hour, and then Laviolet showed up and Brooks just tweeted, no bombshells. No bombshells.

What did you expect, man? Wow. Peter Laviolet worked so hard on his hair and makeup, and apparently not a bomb shell. The thing here is you had, like Chris Dury's called a shot, we're going to make a trade. You have this infamous memo that went out that named Jacob Trudea and Chris Kreider, especially as being veterans, and was then immediately leaked out, which I don't know for sure that that came from the Rangers front office. But that would be my guess. I mean, I guess it's possible other teams may have immediately tattletailed to Elliot Friedman or whoever. And it's just, right now the vibe in New York feels very much to me like one that I know well as a parent, which is when the kids are being brats and you threaten to turn the car right around.

And they just keep being brats. And you're like, oh, man, that was a bluff. I'm not turning this car around. I got places to be, man. Yeah, like we're not. But then the kids screaming in your ear and you're like, oh, man, I got to, maybe I do got to go back to Winnipeg. So it's, I don't know, what do you do now? This team, how much do these guys hate Jacob Truba?

It sure sounds like they're like, it's crazy, right? How much do we have to lose to get this guy out of here? Give us a number, boss. We'll do it. So what do you do if you're, like, Chris Truer is the most interesting guy in the league to me right now. Well, this is kind of what I wrote about. I don't know that you can fix this team in the season. And the problem, too, is obviously Jacob Truba has,

trade protection. I think it's a 15 or 16 team no trade. It's 15. And I don't know, I don't know, man. I don't know that you can fix it in season just because it's like, well, look, you know, who's taking on Jacob Truba and he's willing, maybe the number of teams he's willing to be traded to has increased since he apparently rejected the trade to Detroit over the summer. maybe now he's like, fuck it, I'll go to Detroit. This is miserable, you know, whatever. I can see that being the case. And like you said, maybe that's the point of all this is like, let's just lose a bunch and get him the fuck out of here. Maybe it's possible, you know? But like, Truba's not going anywhere.

And Chris Crider, who also has a 15th team, no trade list, by the way, they're trying to maybe get him out of there. and he's been injured and playing through injury and all that. But, like, also, you know, this is the guy who, what's Chris Kreider's, like, main calling, well, he's got two, I guess, is he scores around the net and he's fast as fuck, right? And if you look at the NHL edge, like the player tracking stats, he's slower this year than he has been at any point in the recent past, which is what happens when you're maybe playing a little banged up and 33. three years old.

You don't get like less banged up when you're, when you advance into your 30s. You know what I mean? Yep. And so like those are, if those are the two guys we're saying, those are the guys that are being targeted to trade. Because Mika Zabandajad, full no move can't go anywhere if he doesn't want to.

And also his contract's kind of a no movie's signed till 2030 at eight and a half million dollars. Problem. But. But. if you're saying we're going to trade either Truba or Crider, maybe both, hopefully, you know, maybe that's what they're thinking. I just don't see how you can make it work without retaining a huge amount of money, which I don't think the Rangers want to do, because these guys are signed beyond this season, and they have the cap crunch and all this kind of stuff. But also, if you can't trade those guys, nobody else is getting traded. everybody else that makes a lot of money, with the exception of Philip Heedle, has some form of trade protection.

Or Adam Fox, I guess. You wouldn't move Adam Fox for any amount of money. Like, if you're the Rangers and you're trying to fix it and you can't trade Truba and Crider, probably, I'm not joking, probably your next best option to get money off the books is Ryan Lindgren. Is that fixing something for you? Oh, we're going to get Capo Caco out of here. Is that fixing their fucking problem? I don't think it is. And not to mention that if the headlines are right and this is a team that's quitting on each other, not given the full effort, whatever, like, Capo Caco being traded is not going to be the shell shock that fixes it.

That's what I'm saying. So what do you do? You're not going to get much for him. What do you do if you're Chris Drury other than go back in time and not put out, not call your shot about turning the car right around? Yeah, man, accelerating the rebuild. How many times do we say it's not a good idea? And like, here's the thing.

They went to two out of three Eastern Conference finals. Pretty good, you know? Most teams can't do that. be in the final four two out of three years. Now, they lost to the devils in the year in between in the first round. That's not good, obviously. That's like your arch rival. These are the guys that are Instagramming you or whatever, you know.

But at the same time, didn't the New York Islanders go to two straight Eastern Conference Finals? And nobody ever, nobody was like, and of course the New York Islanders are set up to be a dynasty for many years to come. Sure. But they didn't win presidents going it. Like, yeah. But all these guys on the Rangers... Last year. They were the best team in the regular season last year.

Yeah. And I can't remember where I saw it. One of the headlines I saw was like, has Igor Shisterkin been hiding the team's like roster problems for years? And it's like, yes! What? Of course he has!

That's what fucking good goalies do. Like, this is if the Jets go on like a streak where they lose five of six or whatever. Is Connor Helibuck's hiding the pro? Yeah, he definitely fucking is. Is Eli Seroquen? Yes. Go down the fucking list, man.

And like, because we've been saying this for how long, like, their five-on-five numbers aren't especially good for three, four years in a row. Multiple coaches. Which at some point has to suggest to you that this is a roster problem and not a coaching problem. You know? They can power play their way out of it. they can goal tending their way out of it until you get to the playoffs. It's that simple, and it always has been that simple. We were saying it fucking two years ago on this podcast.

Preach. I don't know what, I don't know, I don't know what you do. Because all these guys are signed. Do you let Igor Shusirkin walk and just go? Iggy, isn't signed. Well, I mean, that's what I'm saying. You want to blow it up and shock everyone. He's the only notable guy who's not signed for multiple seasons beyond.

Well, Panarin is signed for next year only. Right. But everybody else on this team, you're locked in for another two plus years. Every single guy. Well, I guess Truba is the same way, actually, now that I say that, Trubas also has one year left after this one. But, you know, you're trying to get out from under that. Good luck to you. You made him the captain, not me, you know?

Mm-hmm. Oh, we don't want to play for this guy. If only someone had thought of that, I don't know. And, you know, also it's, it is interesting that, you know, Truba, a guy they got because he essentially put his foot down and said, I'm not playing for Winnipeg anymore. He's now has the potential to put his foot down again. Yeah, except the other way, saying I'm not going to. Yeah, why wouldn't he? Because remember, in the offseason, like, he's got the partial no trade list, but he basically said if, if you trade for me, even if you're not on my list and I don't want to go there, I just, I just won't go. Yep. Because they had the family situation.

So who knows? What a mess. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. Hey, you said it, not me. It is fun. Like, look, man, the, the NHL is more fun when one of the big markets is a tire fire, at least. Absolutely, man. I'll take, you know what?

I'll take like three out of the six, you know? That's what it's all about to me is, again, like, what do I always say you should root for in the NHL? the funniest possible outcome. The funniest possible outcome of the Rangers making two out of three Eastern Conference Finals is by Thanksgiving, they're like, fuck man. This is a disaster.

It's always funny when a team thinks it's way better than it is and then realizes to its chagrin in like December. Uh-oh. That's always funny. I don't care. It is very funny. But again, like this isn't,

this isn't the senators or the Red Wings or whoever like having a decent offseeing. in being like, now we are a great team. This team won the president's trophy last year. Yeah, and they didn't, notably, they didn't do much in the off season, and people were like, despite saying that they were going to. Yeah, that's right. But, you know, you could say, well, look, they just won the president's trophy.

What, you know, what do you have to say to, to, to, to, like, argue that they need to improve the roster, notably? I don't know. All right. It just seems like it's all catching up with them and there's no, this is what I wrote. There's just maybe not a good answer here. Like you have to accept that that's the case sometimes. Sometimes you're just not going to have a good answer available to you. Tough, but.

Yep. That's the way it goes. Some other news this week. The league is apparently not. super happy about tampering. I don't know why this is coming up now, but it does seem like this is a thing. Well, they just had the GM meetings not that long ago,

and somebody obviously got cranky and just decided to complain. So we're going to really make sure there's no tampering anymore. And if they catch you, you're going to get in a lot of trouble, basically. I don't know what that actually, like, means, meaningfully. What it probably means is some team. Everyone will continue as usual, and some team will be made an example of, probably some team whose owner is not right up in Gary Benz-Zir. Yeah, that's probably right. So, yeah.

You can eat you, Vancouver. Right. I think the Roberto Luongo penalty has just ended, so now it's time for you. You know, make the first round pick because you bump into somebody's agent in a hotel lobby somewhere. Yeah, this is why they're decentralizing the draft. Yep. So nobody can see an agent anywhere and maybe exchange a meaningful glance across a crowded room. You know, it's that I don't have a ton else to say about this.

I just think it's really funny that they, that they were just like, this is it. Like you said, it's one guy complained. But it is just like, okay, great, man. Like, tampering's bad. I guess we all agree. You know what we also agree on, I feel like, is that,

like, July 1st is a fun day to be like a hockey fan. Yep. It is. The NHL said, what if July 1st sucked? And it was more like July 3rd that things really got done.

Well, I just think here's what I think is going to happen. Nobody's going to, like, send emails about this shit. They're just all going to talk on the phone or in person. No texting involved. If there's no paper trail, you can't prove anything. That's it.

That's all that's going to happen here is these are going to be Zoom meetings now instead of text exchanges. Well, and the other thing is that instead of saying to an agent, hey, we're going to be interested in Joe Smith on July 1st, and we can probably go up to about $9 million. They'll say, we will. will be interested in a first line winger on July 5th. I think that's how it works now. I'm pretty sure it probably does. So maybe these guys are smart enough to know to speak in generalities.

Yeah. Well, that also blows up a mailback question we have. Yep. Which was which was, I'll just read it to you now. Do GMs drop hints or do they explicitly say, this is from a guy named Eugene? Do GMs drop hints or do they explicitly say,

be ready for this specific author? Also, why is the league? doing this now. I feel like we answered all aspects of that question, Eugene. There we go. Congrats to you. But yeah, no, I think that, like you said, it's more like, you know, we'd be, we'd really be in the market for a number two defenseman, maybe a left shot, who is roughly 28 years old. And, you know, we'd be, for a guy like that, we'd be willing to give that guy six and a half million dollars.

Yep. That's, I feel like that's how all these discussions. take place. I think you're right. Yeah. You know, again, really funny that the league is, is like, listen, one of the big topics that we need to talk about on December 1st here is what's going to happen in July. That's right. Okay.

Yep. I'm already looking ahead to the summer. Yeah. Why not? The PWHL started this weekend. One thing we can say for sure, the fix is in. Boston. They refuse to let these guys win.

It's sad to see. But they just decided Toronto, unlike the NHL, which is, of course, a raid against Toronto in all forms. It's the exact opposite of how... The PWHL has decided the most important hockey market in the world should win all its games. And so, rigged from day one, this is a fake season. We don't have to pretend like we care. That's right. What do you think of the new rule?

the new, by the way, I love this PWHL gimmick of adding one crazy new rule every year. I love the crazy new gimmick of the rule has like a fun name. So last year for people who don't know, or, you know, maybe already kind of filed it away, if you score a shorthanded goal in the PWHL, the penalty is over and they call that the jailbreak goal. I love the name there. I love the idea that they're trying to juice. offense a little bit, although, you know what, now that I say that, maybe it's taking away offense a little bit. But this year, in an attempt to further juice offense, I guess, they have what's called the no escape rule, which is if your team commits a penalty, it's like icing.

The other four people who are on the ice for that penalty have to stay on the ice. I love it. Whoever's doing the naming is doing a good job. Look, okay. It's like pro wrestling. You gotta have, the gimmick has to have a cool name. Absolutely.

Or else it's not a good gimmick. Yeah. They're nailing it. I was just thinking last night what a cool name the outsiders was. Mm-hmm. You know? And no escape. Same thing.

Johnny Gargano could take some notes. It's one of his moves. It's called the Gargano Escape. I feel like that one need a little more time in the oven, Johnny. Yeah. Anyway. No. I like this rule a lot.

And I think that, you know, we always talk about how can the NHL boost offense? We want more scoring. I saw an article last week that was like one in every seven goals in the NHL now is an empty netter. And so like when we say offense is up, it's actually only up because of empty netters and that kind of thing. Teams are all pulling their goalies with six minutes left to be like Patrick Waugh. Yeah. And so I like that the PWHL, instead of doing the NHL thing, of being like, what if we move the faceoff dots three inches in? And, you know, you can change one guy in this situation, you know, like really trying to nibble at the edges.

The PWHL is just like, let's just fuck with how power plays work. That's cool. I think that rocks. And it helps differentiate it from the NHL, like, in terms of just how the games are played and that kind of thing. It does. It's like, I don't think it changes anything strategy-wise, but it really... You're just catching someone if they're tired all, maybe, you know, maybe if they committed the trip because they're exhausted. If they're tired as part of it, if it's the fourth, like, it really changes how you would deploy fourth lines, which I don't think changes that much in today's NHL, but 20 or 30 years ago, it absolutely would have, right?

Yes. the crash line over and next thing you know Bob Probert and Joey Coaster are your two penalty killers for a face-off. It also makes, means, like, you know who this really affects is fourth-line centers? You cannot take a penalty if you're a fourth-line center anymore. That's a great call, yeah. You got two probably not very good wingers out there for a defensive zone face-off. So I think that would be, I think, I think. it's interesting. And I'm glad that there's glad that there's some rules talk. I mean,

I don't know if you saw, we had a piece on The Athletic about a new baseball rule that is apparently being considered. Did you, did you see about the golden ad bat? I did. Which I don't like, but. My understanding is it's once per game. You just get to say, you get to put your best hit up. This guy, whoever we want to hit in this situation gets to hit and it doesn't affect anything else. Yeah, which is a radical crazy rule. And like, I'm old enough that instinctively I'm like, nope, don't like it.

But Jason Stark, who's very open to this stuff, is kind of laying out the case for it. But it's just fascinating to me to see baseball be like, hmm, entertainment value of our game seems to be dropping. Let's be willing to be radical about what we're at least willing to consider. and I wish hockey had done that more 20 or 25 years ago. Yeah, it's fine. What did I? What was the argument? I just saw this recently that there was some NHL rule that people were saying,

oh, we should get rid of it because it's only been around since the 80s and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, right, how many guys currently in the NHL were alive when this rule was instituted? It's probably, I can't remember what the rule was, but it was like, okay, it has to be in the single digits. And also, look, how old is the league now? We had the centennial season when, you know? So like, if this rule was instituted, let's say, 40 years ago, I wish I could remember what the rule was. But let's say this rule was instituted 40 years ago. So we're talking about like 38% of the entire league's history, this rule exists.

for? That's not like, that didn't just happen, you know? It's not like, oh, you know, this salary cap, it's only been around for like 15 years or whatever. It's 20 now, but you know, you get what I'm saying. Um, you know, things that were instituted in the 80s, like hockey was just so fucking different than. Guys didn't wear helmets. They were smoking on the bench. I say this all the time. Go back and watch like highlights of 80s hockey. And, and, And it's just four, especially if it's a team stuck in its own zone, it's just four guys standing there. They're not fucking moving. And it's like, you know, I saw somebody compare the, uh, the, the, the, the golden at bat rule.

They were like, why don't we just make it fucking Mario party then? What do you say? You can, you can trade a couple of doubles for a boo bell. Who gives a shit? Like, that's fine. I'm in. Well, honestly, I think the. golden-knit-bat rule is just kind of

a little too far a field for me. But as with anything, bring your proposed rule changes to me and I will say whether I like them on an individual basis. I can't sit here and like really

whatever, like carve up oh, I don't think we should make any rule changes around X, Y, and Z but I would be open to rule changes around it, you you know, A, B, and C. Just every rule change, let me hear it. And I'll tell you if it's a good idea or not.

I think no escape on the PK is a good idea. But, you know, when did they change the thing about, maybe it was just the last change on the icing thing is maybe what I, I don't remember now. But like, when did last, like, you can't change on an icing, when did that become a rule? Wasn't that fucking long ago? Wasn't too too long ago, yeah.

No, I think it might have been around the start. of the cap era, right? Yeah. So, again, we're saying that wasn't that longer. That was fucking 20 years ago. I mean, they did shootouts and screwed with overtime and that sort of thing. So I can't say the NHL is completely stuck in their ways. But as I've said before, the only sport that has its head up its own behind about its history more than hockey is baseball.

It's interesting to me to see them going quite radical on at least the sort of stuff they're willing to talk about. Yep, that's right. Well, that's it. I guess that's the whole show. Cool. You want to hit them with the plugs, and we'll get the hell out of here? Find me on the athletic. Listen to me with Sean Gentilly and Frankie tomorrow on the athletic hockey show

where we'll probably do the same roster exercise that you and I just did. And I will probably pick different guys, just so that... Oh, you should just present my roster and see what they said. I should do that. And they're like, damn, Sean, this is the smartest you've ever been. you really cooked here. Joey DeCord just to be a dick? Wow.

Yeah. And you can find my writing at The Athletic as well, of course. And yeah, that's that. That's that. Elite prospects for me, you head over there. You use the code I love EP when you sign up for an annual subscription, and they will tack three months on to the end of it just for you. Other than that, the Patreon is patreon.com slash puck soup.

kinds of bonus episodes that, uh, you know, we, we got coming up in the month of, uh, it's December now, the month of December and, uh, TBD on, on all, all that kind of stuff. We haven't, we haven't really sat down and talked about what we're doing this month, but rest assured you will get a whole ton of bonus episodes. So, uh, yeah, Patreon.com slash puck soup. Five bucks a month, all the puck soup episodes, eight bucks a month, all the puck soup bonus episodes plus a whole bunch of other podcasts that you know there will be hitting

some quadrant of your interest I can guarantee you that we we cover a wide variety of topics over there so check all that out thank you for listening to the main show we're going to go do the mailbag which is on the Patreon right now enjoy your your frozen four face off frozen rosters

announced tomorrow. Don't let us know whether we were right or wrong about any of that stuff. And we'll talk to you later. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.