Puck Soup - Midnight Leaf Trade

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospect. I am Sean McAdoo from The Athletic. And, well, folks, there was another big trade. this one. Now, okay, this wasn't like, you know, the second our podcast came out or anything,

but it was, I would say a worst time for me personally as a guy who has to, like, write the trade great. Oh, you don't like doing that at midnight on a Friday? Yeah, not great for me. Hey, let's keep this during business hours, fellas. You know what I mean? But, hey, you know what I, this is kind of unrelated, I guess, but, you know what I always thought was funny is that they just like make the trade deadline like kind of early for the West Coast teams you know because it's like

oh yeah if you don't have your shit wrapped up by noon I guess you're out of luck that sucks I don't like I wouldn't like that if I was like the GM of the Why don't they do it later like I mean I guess they don't want to run into that night's games but it feels like you could put it put the actual deadline

in prime time and get more people watching the show shows. I guess, but even even just like 5 p.m. Well, Ryan, I don't know if you know this, but trades can still trickle in after the deadline. That's true. And I mean, I'm just assuming at the NHL offices, everybody's desk chair is empty and spinning at 4.59 p.m. Just everybody is out of the door, out of the door in the elevator. Yeah, they got places to be. The other thing I wanted to talk about before the trade real quick here is I got an email yesterday from the NHL,

like the National Hockey League that was like, hey, just so you know Fanduel is coming to Massachusetts soon because we just like legalized sports betting or whatever. And you should sign up for Fandual. They'll give you a bunch of free money if you make a bet. You got that from the NHL. Yeah, cool. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to see, I'm going to see if I can find the screenshot I took of it really quickly. But, yeah, it says, FanDuel is coming to Massachusetts. This is from NHL Inside the Creece Partners, presented by FanDuel. Hey, NHL fans, America's number one sportsbook is coming to Massachusetts. Create your account today to get started with $100 in bonus bets. On the day, Fan Duel goes live. Join now. If you were your loved one, our experience problem.

gambling called. Good that they slip that in. Yeah. And it's like, look, I'm not signed up for like major league baseball or the NBA or the NFL's like email lists or whatever. I don't remember signing up for the NHL thing, but I'm sure I bought one thing from shopped on NHL.com 58 years ago. And so I'm locked in forever, you know?

But like, does that come off as insane to you that the NHL? is sending that shit? I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't. This is, I think at this point, we all know what the deal is with the NHL. And in fairness, like you said, this is not an NHL specific thing. They're all in on gambling. There is an enormous amount of money out there. And they're stuffing their pockets with as much of it as they can, and they'll worry about

the ramifications of that down the line if they ever do. They probably won't. They probably won't is right. But yeah, I just like, I noticed this last week, too. I've been getting a lot of ads from the New York Rangers saying you should bet on Rangers games. Here's a link to do it with. Hmm. And like, I don't want to say it's evil because like, whatever, you know, bet on sports if you want to bet on sports.

but like it I don't know what the word even is like it's kind of crass and it's kind of like it does it feels a little gross I mean you know you know they're they're getting paid

but the potential ramifications for people is not great I don't know I don't know what to tell you man my other podcast has a segment sponsored by a sports book so

I'll just be shut up and, no. Well, okay, so let me, I'll say one last thing on this. I don't even think, like, yeah, obviously, like, people with gambling problems, it's not, it's not great, right? But I'm just saying, like, as a regular fan who may or may not bet on, I mean, I'm not going to do it, but like, to the regular person who may or may not bet on a given game or, you know, whatever. And I'm not even saying, like, oh, I think it's, I do think it's a little fucked up that like when you watch Sportsnet, they're like, and here's Cabby to explain to you what the money line in the game you're watching is, you know? Like I, but I'm just saying like from the point of view of like, they are really trying to shake you down for every fucking dollar you have.

You know what I mean? Like that's what's crazy to me. It's not so much that I think it's evil. Like I said, I just am like, I don't want it to feel like it's this much of a fucking shakedown. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what is happening now is there are, because it's all just been legalized, there's all these companies fighting to be one of the last ones standing because there's, there's room for a few companies, but not as many as we have. So everyone's fighting it out.

Nobody's worried about making money right now. And so they're just throwing this money around. I guess, you know, in a couple years when winners and losers start to emerge, it will hopefully settle down. And then we'll look back at this era and be like, what the hell was, that was wild. But in the meantime, the reason there's so much money to throw around is because this is an enormously

profitable business, because if you bet on sports a lot constantly, you're almost certain to lose in the long run. So just keep that in mind. I'm not here to tell people how to spend their money, but you will be spending your money. money. And if you've convinced yourself that you won't be, then you're wrong and you'll find out. Yeah, I just, I guess, I guess my thing with it is like, you know, I feel like we're days away from if you go to like a Rangers game, like Gerard Galant's going to be in the front with a gun being like empty pockets.

That could happen. That's possible. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the Ryan O'Reilly trade. Speaking of big gamble. I feel like. I feel like you, I feel like you have a bit of a connection to this. Yeah, I am a big Minnesota wild fan. You were really hoping they were going to use that cap space. Yeah, man, this is exactly what we were all looking for. Yeah, I mean, a big trade, but not an especially tough one to understand. This is, we've been saying all year long that the Leafs have to be.

pretty close to all-in. I've seen this trade described as an all-in trade. It's really not. I wouldn't go quite that. I mean, the Leafs have, they still have cap space and they still have assets to move. So, you know, they're not, all-in implies that this is the biggest that you can do. And they're not. They've still got some chips in the pile if they choose to use them.

But it made sense. You know, it's a guy that in Ryan O'Reilly, who fits well with what they need. There's been a long-running debate about do they add on the blue line or do they add up front? I think up front was probably the right call. I agree. The price was high, but, I mean, especially if you're Kyle Dubas, what do you care about future draft picks? You're not going to be using those picks if this all goes south again. so um yeah and you know it's the it's going to be like the 20 second pick in the draft you know

like you can get good players at 22 but the odds that you get good players at 22 aren't especially high and it's and if you're the the leaps the team that's just like yeah we'll spend money on like a hl guys and and see what's up with them you know like they they're not shy about keeping the marley's like a well-stacked team and and look i mean there's also apparently a non-zero chance that they could find a way to keep Ryan O'Reilly pass this season. I'd be a little surprising. I mean, I think it only happens if he really wants it to happen. They're not going to be able to outbid other teams if it comes down to a bidding war.

But if he wants to stay, then that could happen. The one thing I'll say is that, and I wrote this over the weekend, and I got, you know, a lot of Leaf fans are mad at me again because I don't have the passion. Have you heard this, Ryan? It's, you got to say, you got to say the passion or else you're not a real, you're not a real leaf saying. If you don't have the passion, what are we even doing here, you know? A lot of the, like, I don't hate the trade by any sense, but a lot of the justification for it really echoes everything that was said about Nick Folino two years ago, which is that, you know, you're getting a veteran guy.

He's not having a great season. And that's fine. I mean, you have to buy low on these guys because guys having great seasons very rarely get moved. And you can't get, and the Leafs can't get into the Team O'Meyer. Unlikely, yeah, it would have been. We'll talk about. So, but, you know, this idea that always a local guy and he's always wanted to play for the Leafs and he's going to just magically flip a switch and, you know, he was.

on a bad team before, but now he'll be great. Maybe, I mean, we're recording this the morning after Ryan O'Reilly has a hat trick for the Leafs. So, yeah, it looks, deal looks good right now. I'm just saying that, you know, I don't think, I've got a bunch of people mad at me saying, well, you know, Ryan O'Reilly's not Nick Felino. Are you crazy? How could you compare the two?

And they're sending me photos of Ryan O'Reilly with all his trophies from four years ago. And I don't think they're wrong about Ryan O'Reilly. I think they're wrong about Nick Falino. I think that trade has morphed into one of those things where we've retconned it to like everybody knew it was a terrible idea at the beginning. Go back and, you know, all I'll say is go back and search. Go Google Nick Falino trade grades and read what people were saying at the time. Right.

And not just the people writing about it, but go into the comments. lots of fans thought that was going to be just great for the exact same reasons that they like this deal you know there is sometimes you have to take a gamble sometimes you have to roll the dice a bit but there's also wishful thinking that kicks in and i'm seeing a lot of wishful thinking happening around this trade maybe it maybe it works out it absolutely could i i certainly don't hate it and i'd be dumping all over the leaves if they didn't make a move like this. But, you know, just because the guy's local and coming from a bad team to a good one doesn't mean you magically roll back the clock four years and get the guy in his prime.

Right. And, you know, I think that the thing with O'Reilly, I'm a little surprised they moved Tavares to the wing. Yeah. Is, I guess, my initial reaction. I thought for sure they were going to kind of just run one, two, three down the middle and then, you know, have the option to move O'Reilly up in the lineup as the game's like circumstances dictate in any given game, but that he would anchor his own line because Tavares is having, you know, kind of a nice season for himself. But they put O'Reilly on the second line in between Tavares and Mara. Which is a hell of a line.

Those three gone psycho, the last couple of games. that I guess I can see it from the point of view of like O'Reilly isn't the fastest guy in the world anymore I don't think he ever was but like now especially right like there's just and maybe you can't have two lines with two centers who can't keep up with the pace of play so having one line where you know they're at least all smart like they, you know, they understand where to be on the ice and, you know, how to get there as efficiently as possible.

Like, I think that makes a lot of sense. Like, it didn't occur to me, but I think obviously it's working out. There's been talk of moving to Vos to the Wing for a little while now. Yeah, and rightfully so. That at some point in his seven-year deal, he would wind up there. And Sheldon keeps had sort of some mixed messaging because he said initially when they made the the move, he said this wasn't just a short-term thing, but then last night he also said that he expects Tavares to play center again at some point this season. So I guess we'll see.

You know, that's just a, you can, having a third center who is, you know, at least playing extremely well right now, like that does just give you the option to, you know, maybe we do if we want to mix things up a little. There's no need to mix it up right now. But like if we feel the need to two weeks from now, that that's an option that's available to us. And as you say, like the Leafs could go out and cap friendly says they're, they have like $4.4 million in cap space.

They can still add. Yep. Right. And they could. They can go out and get another. They could move an Alex Kerfut or someone. Apparently the expectation is that they'll announce this week that Jake Muzon, is out for the year, which means they can go ahead and use the space that they have.

Oh, yeah, I was taking that as a gift. I think so, yes, that that was just going to happen. Yeah. But yeah, so we talked about it from the least point of view. You know, it's funny just because, you know, the rest of the regular season kind of doesn't matter for them, right? They are locked in. and so like we're like oh you know the line's going well right now none of that fucking matters until like the second week of April or whenever the playoffs stuff yeah exactly it's so so let's talk instead about the st louis blues they are a team that seems to be in the process of maybe blowing like fully blowing it up a little bit well fully in a little bit i guess are contradictory terms but like apart from Jordan Kairu and Robert Thomas are probably not going anywhere.

Who could be safe on that team? Yeah. Now, the two guys they've moved, O'Reilly and Teresenko, were both expiring deals. Well, they only have, well, I guess most of their defenses signed through beyond next season, but like up front, they only have five guys signed for next year. So. So it would seem that when you move two guys, of that caliber that you're fully in blow it up rebuild.

But then we're told that maybe they could be emerging as a Timo Meyer destination, obviously with the plan to sign him long term. So maybe not. This could just be a, you know, this is maybe this would be maybe the fat, like if the Meyer trade happens. And they've now got a bunch of assets to do it. Yep. Like if that happens, is that the fastest rebuild on the fly ever?

Yeah. Or is it even a rebuilder? Was it just a case of, hey, we got to get assets for these guys? And remember, Doug Armstrong's done that in the past, right? He did it with Kevin Chattonkirk and Paul Stassany, where in years where the Blues were in the playoff mix. And he still got assets for those guys. you know, he, to my knowledge, I don't think he's ever said the word rebuild

or described it that way. Yeah, no. Could just be, yeah, let's get some assets for guys who are going to lose anyways and turn those assets into guys who are going to be here. Yeah. Let me read to you the lines for the Blues in their most recent game.

Robert Thomas, Jordan Cairo, on the top line, obviously. their left wing Ivan Barbashev. Already you're like, uh-oh. You know? Then their second line, Sammy Blay, Braden, Shen, Josh Lavo. Alexei Torupchenko,

Nikita Alexandrov, Tyler Pitlick. How many of those guys exist? I'd say about half. Yeah, that's right. And then their bottom line, Matthew Heimor, Nathan Walker, and Callie Rosen.

That's where the blues are at right now. It's not great. And Barbachev also likely to be moved potentially. Likely to be traded, yes. Yep. So I don't know that they need to do a tear it down rebuild. Like most of that forward group is like, oh, is this team doing a tear it down rebuild right now? Yeah. You know, and like obviously Buccinovich is out injured and so is Brandon Sod.

So like that helps, I guess, um, in terms of. of rounding out that lineup a little bit more. But yeah, it's a tough situation for them. I don't know. I guess the other thing to say is the Blues have a space to retain salary on, I believe, one more deal, because they retained on both Tarasenko and O'Reilly. Okay.

So they can do it on one more deal, and you're starting to hear, like, blues fans at least going like, can we interest you in a Tory Kroog? What about a Justin Falk? You know, or I even saw the name Colton Pereko. Yeah.

I mentioned as maybe a possible trade. But that's a guy, I mean, he's signed through 2030. So he's not going anywhere, it feels like, unless you know, they eat half his money and then you know, they're paying $3.25 million.

Can't imagine. For the next seven years, right? Yeah. Like, yeah, why would they do? Well, I mean, he was mentioned as a potential guy for the senators, which I could see because Pierre Dorian is not in worried too much about eight years from now mode. I don't think. So that it's possible.

But yeah, I mean, everything's on the table. But yeah, they do have, man, they've, I'm looking at their cap-friendly page. They got four of those little red arrows that mean a contract that extends more than five years. Now, again, two of those are, two of those are Cairo and Thomas. So it's like, okay, they're both like 23, 24 years old and they're good. So that's, I don't think that's a point of concern. The Braden Shen being another one, it kind of is, right? But especially, apparently, says it says on cat friendly,

Braden Shen has a full no trade clause. Uh-oh, that's a problem. But yeah. So I guess, you know, what did you think about this trade for the blue? I mean, it's, it makes sense. They got a nice chunk of draft capital. They moved a guy that I think resigning him would not have made a ton of sense. No, totally agree.

Now, if in the off season, you want to go revisit it, then that's. Sure. Yeah, we said it last week. You want to do a Kachuk move? Go ahead. He's going to blame you. The guy's your captain, right? Or was until very recently.

But yeah, no, I mean, this makes sense for the Blues. I don't think it's, you know, again, you're getting a late first draft pick. It's, you know, we may look back on this and say it didn't turn into anything as far as the guys they get out of the picks. You've got to turn those into prospects. But, you know. you know, it makes sense to do. I guess the only question you might have is by waiting closer to the deadline, does that affect the price?

Do teams get in or get out based on, you know, when Tim O'Meier goes? Is that something? But Doug Armstrong's in the middle of that, and he's aware of it. He knows what teams were bidding and what teams maybe felt like they wanted to move now. and it's safe to assume that he got the best deal that he felt like was going to be possible over the next couple weeks. So, yeah, I like this just fine for the blues. Yeah, I mean, three picks and Adam Godette, who's like, you know, he's a guy who can, you can pop on your NHL lineup and not feel like you're drowning out there, you know. and that's and that's

a brahma of a you know who cares but the only other interesting thing about this is that the wild jumped in

for a fourth round pick they what did they pay like not very much as like in terms of actual money

the actual money is extremely small on the retention because O'Reilly's one of these contracts where it drops way down at the end

but the wild basically sell some cap space for a fourth, which, yeah, sure. Makes sense. And after doing that, they still have like almost 13 million in deadline and caps space at the deadline. So they can add a tonne still, like buying a fourth round pick even if it's a few years from now, like,

why not, why not be that team? Because someone's going to be that team, someone's going to get that draft pick. Why not have it be you for, for, for, whatever, 80 grand, you know. It's not a bad bit of business, as they say. But we've mentioned his name, I think, 15 times already. Let's talk about the Timo Meyer sweepstakes. He is currently, apparently, day to day.

And one wonders if a team that until very recently was like, we never rebuild. Yeah. Cody Road style. We'll never do it. and then they are going to rebuild obviously, right? But so I guess the question is, are they just saying that because they don't want to say Timo Myers out for trade-related reasons?

Or is he like legitimately? I mean, they might as well just, they could just say that because everyone else is saying it. So, I mean, I think he's probably banged up, but not in a way that's. Yeah, right. I think it's everybody's hurt. this time of year.

So we're going to be a little extra cautious. This guy's shoulders bugging him or whatever. And, oh, he's in the trade market, too? What a crazy coincidence. You know, I think that's kind of where it's at. But it does look like this is just like the New Jersey Devils race to win. Yeah, the Devils are the team we've been talking about for months. I think Carolina has to make sense too.

They've got space, they've got assets. And apparently, according to LeBron, the devils would want to have an extension be part of this. Which, well, whereas Carolina would be willing to do it without, like Carolina would be willing to do it as a pure rental, which, you know, that can still affect the price. but yeah, I mean, it's interesting because you've got Jersey and Carolina kind of at the top of the division. The Rangers are right there, but the Rangers have, in theory, at least, made their moves.

Yeah, I don't think they have a lot of... Well, Larry Brooks is saying that there's ways that they could free up enough space to make another big move, like using waivers and... Yeah, big move might be overstating it, but they have about 900 grand in deadline cap space that, you know, if they make a trade where they're moving out money as well, like a, God, if they can get someone to take that Berkeley Goodrow contract off there.

Yeah, I don't think that happens, but, uh, I mean. But like, that's just a guy who immediately jumps off the page. It's like, oh, yeah, he makes that much, huh? Yeah, I think it was, um, I mean, at this point, you pretty much just take any contract, You take the space and quadruple it if you want to think, heck, we've seen teams now know that you, there's sort of an established price to get the team trading them to eat 50%,

and then flip them to a third team to eat 10%. So, I mean, it can, you can get it done. It costs you more as far as your picks and what have you. But, you know, the Rangers could be in on guys. But even if, let's assume they're not. Devils and Hurricanes, I mean, that it's sort of a, if you believe that there's one elite guy left in Timom Meyer, you're not sold on Patrick Kane, you're not sold on Tyler Batusi, whoever else, then one of those teams you would think would be the frontrunner to get them.

And again, with the blues kicking around, Dallas is another team that is getting mentioned as a contender that hasn't made the move yet. Don't have a first round pick to work with, but we'll see on them. I wouldn't say the devils are the, to me, it's Jersey and Carolina are the co-favorites. And then we see. Well, I can't remember which insider said it. But apparently the devil's sold the sharks. Like, if you have an offer you want to take from another team, call us and we'll try to be. So that's kind of why I feel like that's, they have the inside track.

Like if they're apparently planting that flag as of like a week ago or whatever, I feel like they're going to get them or die trying, basically, you know? So, yeah, I think that makes sense for Carolina. I think that makes sense for New Jersey. You know, Carolina, I just wonder just because of what they do it is a pure rental, knowing what it would cost with New Jersey may be willing to do it not as a pure rental. That's the only question I would have for Carolina.

And maybe other teams are in on it too, but those definitely seem like the two most likely ones unless they want to trade them in the division, which I don't think they would, right? Yeah, I mean, I imagine they'd prefer not to, but when you're making a deal of this magnitude, you've got to take the best price you can get and you would think.

Yeah, especially if you're pretty convinced, like, what would be the point of them bringing him back? Yep. You know? So, I don't know. It'll be really, I think he's the best player available by far. I think he's awesome. He's going to really help whoever gets him. But, you know, this is why the trade deadline is like 10 days away or whatever.

Well, that's. It's next Friday, right? Or is it next Thursday? We're getting close. Like it's, you know, it feels like I've been writing about the deadline for a month. And it's always, you know, with the caveat that, hey, we got a few weeks to go. Like, we're, we're almost there. So, yeah, Cap Friendly says nine days, four hours, 46 minutes.

That sounds about right. Boy, that's really putting a timestamp on it. But yeah, so it is next Friday. And, I mean, especially when you get to like Patrick Kane, man. Time to make a decision. It's... Yeah. Okay.

So let's take a break and then we'll come back and we'll talk about the Patrick Kane and maybe some other guys who are allegedly on the block. So we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Better Help. I think we all know that there are times where you might feel like you're at your best or you're close to it and you're accomplishing things. You're knocking things off your list. And then there are those other times where you're very very very very very very very very very. much not, whether you're bogged down, overwhelmed. You're just not feeling like you're at the level that you know you want to be at,

and you know you can be it. There are different ways to get you closer to that best version of you, and one of them is working with a therapist, having somebody to talk to, talk through these things, can get you back on track, get you feeling empowered, get you more prepared to handle the challenges that we know life is going to throw at us. Therapy isn't always for everyone, but many of us who have tried it, it is a step in that right direction and can be very, very helpful as far as getting back on track.

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Visit betterhelp.com slash puck today to get 10% off your first month. that's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P-com. Slash Puck. All right. We mentioned Patrick Kane on the other side of the break. Let's talk about him. This man is playing insanely good hockey right now. Yes.

It's fun. For the last four days, Patrick Kane, classic. Out of his mind. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll say this. That goal last night to win the game

with zero seconds left in overtime. That fucking ruled. Yeah. because we mentioned this on the bonus episode that we did yesterday. But like you never see slap shots anymore and Roman Yosey scored a really sick one over the weekend. And Patrick Kane, same thing. He's just like, I'm going to fucking wind it up from between the circles and just let a rip and it worked. Yeah, because he didn't have any time.

Like he picked the fuck up at his own zone with like four seconds left. And you're like, well. And then he made a goal happen. Yeah. and then he made a goal. But luckily, thank God we got it right. Got to have, got to get it right, Ryan. Yeah, I didn't actually watch that game,

so I only saw the highlight after. I assumed that there was a 45-minute review to make sure. That's right. Yep. Yeah. But, yeah, so I guess the question is, like if ever, well, first of all,

the question is, is Patrick King going to say, yeah, you're allowed to trade me. But I guess who knows? It really feels like it could go either way. Like if the Rangers were still a viable option, which it kind of doesn't feel like is possible unless, like even with salary retained twice, it just doesn't feel like it's a financially feasible thing.

I think they could do it if they were highly motivated, but I think the fact that they made the move for Teresenko suggests that that was the guy that they wanted. Yeah. But again, like, it's a $10 million ticket, but it's really $2.5 if you do a double retention. And if you include a contract going the other way, especially, then you can absolutely, any team could do it. It doesn't mean it makes sense for every team. Yeah. But the real question is whether teams look at his last three games where he has five goals,

should have been six, and two assists, and go, this is what Patrick Kane is, or if they look at his previous whatever, like, or the entire previous rest of the season where he had nine goals. And like, it really depends on how tricked people are. being by the last week. But it's not necessarily tricked because part of the concern with Patrick Kane was whether he was healthy, right? Like he had missed some time and there was some concern.

And the fact that he's playing this well this week at least suggests that, okay, he's back. That they got access to like some highly experimental pain care. That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's certainly going to push him top of mind again. and it's just a question of getting that answer from them because we were told all season long that, yeah, I mean, they haven't had the discussion yet,

but they'll have it. And apparently, they said they still haven't. Like last night, apparently, Davidson was like, yeah, I still haven't talked to them. So, I mean, at this point, I don't know what you're waiting for because it's now time to, I get, well, I do know what you're waiting for because it's a hard topic and you certainly don't want to get in a situation where you're, you know, damaging a relationship.

relationship by by pressuring him into a decision he's not ready to make yet but at some point I mean if you don't make the decision you've made it because yeah it's yeah we were supposed to I think I think this is a Pierre LeBron thing where like he was going to tell Chicago as of like a week and a half before like two weeks to a week and a half before the deadline which is right now you know what his decision was like if you get inside a week maybe it becomes harder to make that trade happen just because, you know, there's a lot of moving parts with this kind of a trade. Yeah. And, you know, I think it is overstated how difficult it is to make a trade in the NHL.

But I don't think it's like you can just call up Chicago, be like, we'll take Patrick Kane. Here's what we're offering, especially given what his contract situation is and how much he costs and the no move clause and everything like that. and just like have a deal done, you know, over lunch. You know what I mean? Like I think I think this might take just because you're going to have to get the extra team involved in that kind of thing. I think this might take an extra day or whatever that, you know, if it's a, if it's a Tyler Mott trade, you can just go, we'll give you a worse Tyler Mott and like a seventh round pick or whatever. You can do that in five minutes for sure. but this kind of trade, there's just a lot going on.

A lot of plates in the air. Is that right? No, that's not the expression. Plate spinning. Yeah. Balls in the air. Those are two different expressions, yeah. Yeah.

So it's, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see because it's, he is, I mean, I would say Patrick Kane is the most interesting name they could move at the deadline. He's the biggest name for sure. Biggest name. Not the best player, but that would be fascinating. And, I mean, also, can we just talk about how if you're a Blackhawks fan, you've known all year long that this is the tank here. You're waiting for the lottery, obviously. But the other thing was, we can move Taves and Cain and really jumpstart the rebuild as far as those future assets.

And now you're not going to be able to move Jonathan Taves. We found that out this week. And it's possible Patrick Cain says, you know what, no, I'm good. and you're not able to move either of those guys, that's, that's tough. That's tough. For sure. And, you know, obviously it's been suggested that, like, they just might go, you know what, we'll keep him, re-sign them on a one-year deal for next year.

And then, maybe shut them down for the year, have them. And then, you know, bring them back healthy and all that kind of stuff. But it's like Patrick Kane, a year older, you think is going to, like, even if, even if, he's healed up, he's going to be 35 years old. You're banking on that to to be like the big trade chip you've been hoping for?

Like what is other than injury, which again, he's looked healthy this week, why would you get more next year than he would right now? That's, especially with the way he's playing this second. Yeah. So,

I don't know. Like, I think if another team is smart, and obviously not every team in the league is, Kane is like the fallback to the fallback position. I'd rather have Ivan Barbashev, right? Like, for the money and what it would cost and all that kind of stuff, like in assets, I'd rather go out and get Barbishap than Kane at this point. Because I'm not, because I wouldn't be banking on like, oh, Patrick King can stay healthy for,

what I hope is a deep playoff run. So it'll be, it'll be really interesting just to see if, you know, again, like the O'Reilly thing that we talked about, I think last week, maybe a couple weeks ago now, where it's like you're taking a big bet that this guy who's been bad all year is going to be good for you. And are you willing, like, the Leafs were obviously willing to pay that price,

but I think there's an even greater risk with Kane, just because he's older and like, more obviously banged up. Yeah, but again, the same logic would apply, right? You'd look at it and you go. Yeah, no, he's on a terrible team that's going nowhere. He'll be re-energized when he comes to our team. He'll, he's got the playoff experience.

He's, you know, all of these things. You can, you can talk yourself into it. Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. But again, I would just like, I, again, it's tough because it's like if you, if you're waiting to lose out on a better player, then can you get the deal to come together in time? I don't know, you know.

But yeah, it's, I'll tell you this. If I was a GM of a team that was also tanking, I would just put it out there. We're willing to eat Patrick Kane, like, you know, 25% of Patrick Kane's money for a third round pick or whatever. Yeah. Like I would, if I was that GM, like, If I was the GM of the Vancouver Canucks, well, maybe that's not a great example because they don't really have the cap space.

But like if I was the GM of a team with the cap space, if I'm, if I'm Bill Armstrong, I'm like, I'll make this deal happen for you. You don't have to worry about that. Yep. That's it. And it's, you know, again, in Kane's case, it's not quite as extreme as O'Reilly, but it, the actual cash would not be enormous. It would be. Right. under a million bucks, I believe, to make that happen.

Very doable. Yep. Another guy that apparently is, I've seen like three different insiders, I think, at this point say that he, you know, is in play. And it's shocking. Is J.T. Miller? I've been saying all year they should be. Oh, we've been saying that they should be trying to do it for sure. Well, not just trying.

I mean, to me, I'm saying yes to most offers that anything reasonable. Oh, no, for sure. I'm just saying, like, I can't believe that there are any teams out there who are like, you know what, we will jump on that grenade for Vancouver. Yeah. Like, the amount of salary retention that I would need them to do, again, if it's my team, makes the Canucks go, yeah, I guess we're not paying like half of that guy's money for the next stuff.

for the next seven years. Like, I wouldn't want any part of it. The year he's having, but. And we don't know for sure that anyone does, right? I mean, this could be a well-planted story to see if there's any interest to. Now we're getting to my theory on what's going on here. Is that the Canucks are like, oh, boy, we're getting so many, you know, we're talking about J.T. Miller.

when people call us to make trades. And it's like, yeah, someone calls about Luke Shannon. You're like, can we also interest you in J.T. Miller? And then that's not you lying. You are talking to other teams about J.T. Miller. But that's you bringing it up to them and them going, well, no. Yeah. All right.

Well, we just had a conversation about, you know. That's exactly right. His name's come up in trade conversations. It's us going pretty pleased and them going definitely not. I can't remember who it was. There was some player who's got, like a big contract and just not quite like J.T. Miller, but there was one of the insiders was like, I heard they're talking to Toronto, but that doesn't make much sense. You could just like,

yeah, well, I wonder where you heard that then. Teams know that you just, you say you're talking to the Leafs and, and again, if the Leafs call about Luke Shen and you're like, what do you think? You want to. But I love that the insider, like even the insider was like, this doesn't make any sense at all. But here it is. I'm mentioning it. But it's. Yeah, this is, oh, yeah. Really, really funny to me. But I don't know, like, I can see a team talking themselves into it if Vancouver's like,

we don't even really want anything for them, like, just take him off our hands and, you know, give us a third round pick or a second round pick or whatever and we'll eat some of the salary. And again, maybe you can get a third team involved, but I doubt it, you know. Yeah. But yeah, I was just really, when that came up, I think I saw Frank tweet about it. I was just like, boy, the insiders are really hard up for news if we're pretending J.T. Miller's getting trained. And the, yeah, and the retention is, I mean, seven years of retention. Remember that, you know, some fans don't necessarily realize this.

You can't say, like, we'll retain this year or like this year or next year. You're on the hook for the whole seven years. There's no flexibility. So it's hard to... Yeah, someone asked that on the mailbag recently, right? Yeah. It's really tough to figure out a way to make that work. Yeah.

And getting a third team involved, I mean, even if it was a small... Like, who's going to want to do that, right? Yeah, you'd want an enormous payback because you're committing seven years down the line. It's hard to imagine. Yeah. So, yeah, I... Look, I hope for the Canucks

sake they can do it, right? Sure. If they're, if they're committing to it, like, I, I hope they can pull it off. And they'd be cleaning up their own mistake, but still, I mean, sometimes you got to do that. Yeah, look, it's better to clean up your mistake than to just like let it sit there, you know, for seven fucking years. Like, oh, I spilled the milk. Well, that's somebody else's problem. I'm going to move out of this house eventually, so.

But, yeah, I think those are, that's like the big. I mentioned the Tyler Mottrade, like, who cares. Not me. But, yeah, no, why would you? But I don't think there's anything other than that that's really, like, out there right now. Yeah, I'm just scrolling like. Eric Carlson, I guess, like, maybe. Sounds very unlikely at this point.

Yeah, and we've kind of said all year. Yeah, and you're starting to see, like, oh, maybe Ottawa would be interested again, but would he go back to Ottawa? you know, all that kind of stuff. And it just feels like we're going in circles. Because that was like the initial rumor, was it not? That was one of them. And for what it's worth, Ian says that he thinks Eric Carlson would come back to Ottawa. So, you know, they...

I get it. You live there for a long time. That's fine. The issue for Carlson and Ottawa is no longer here. So that's... Right. But again, like, are you... You're getting ready to sell the team.

Would you even... be able to get the great light to make that kind of commitment. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. All right. So, yeah, that's it for trade talk for right now. What I did want to talk about, this is something I wrote about earlier this week. But the extent to which the playoff race in the Eastern Conference has tightened up,

well, for the wild card, I guess I should say, is actually like kind of astonished. Like, every team is within a few points of each other. And, yeah, like, the Islanders are in a playoff spot right now. It's Islanders and Panthers, but they've played more games than everybody else. But then within three points of that is Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Washington, all with games in hand. And then Buffalo also has even more games in hand than that. and they're five points back or four points back of the cut line. So, and I guess even technically like Ottawa's somewhat involved,

but again, like I said it last week, we don't have to pretend that's going to happen. I think it has like a less than 10% chance of happening at this point. So, and they're the senators. That was necessary, but it's accurate, though. It is. But what's crazy, so this is what's crazy about it. I'm on Moneypuck right now.

And it says the penguins have a, a 57% chance of making the playoffs. And they're the highest ranking team of the teams I just talked about. Florida is next at 43%. Buffalo and the Islanders are at 34 and 28. Detroit's at 19. Washington at 11.5. Isn't that crazy?

That is. I'm looking at, let me look at Dom's here because I'm, yeah, he's got Washington at 19%. so better but not good. Not good at all. Like, you know, I think we've said all along, or for years I've been saying it anyway, I don't know about you, but Washington and Pittsburgh have been the teams where it's like, do I think they're good?

Not really. Will I ever bet against them to miss the playoffs until the first time they do it? And it kind of takes me by surprise? No. And so like the Penguins beat writers are, have been fully freaking out every time they lose all season. Because every time they lose, they look like absolute shit. They look bad when they lose.

And there have been long stretches where they've like, for a week or two just looked awful. Yeah. And yet, they still have a better than 50% chance of making the playoffs. And among the wild card teams, that's the best by like a pretty wide margin. So I look at it and I say to myself like This can't be the end for Washington Just because again they're not going to tank while Ovechkins is going for the goal record But

This is a tough road They're a team where I just don't know what they're going to do Apparently they're talking to teams about Dimitri Orlov Just because they don't think they're going to be able to resign him is the latest report. Yeah. And, man,

we talked about it recently. Like, they only have one defenseman under contract for next summer. And if they, or for next season, and if they trade Orlov, like,

what is, what are they even going to do on the back end? It's crazy. Yep. Um, but yeah, do you have any thoughts on,

uh, the other teams like non? I, I still, like the Panthers. I feel like they're too good to miss, even though they've certainly been on track for that all year.

The Islanders obviously are the interesting one because they go out and make the big trade and yet still kind of look. And now Barzal's out week to week. Yeah. So... Seems like he'll be back before the end of the season, but maybe not that much. But not necessarily

before the end of their season. If it's... Well, no, I think they're saying he'll be back in the regular season in all likelihood. Yeah, I'm just saying by the time he's back, they could be, you know, they're playing off. Oh, like, they'll be out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. It could be done.

So, you know, that's, I don't want to watch. And then obviously, you know, Detroit, Buffalo, even Ottawa, you're, not that you're happy to just be in the race, but that would be where the goal would start. The Sabres are still the team that you hope makes it. They're, you know, they're. You know, they're the most interesting option, but, yeah, it's a long shot. Yeah, I look at like a team like Detroit, right? And we mentioned earlier, Tyler Routousie was apparently maybe on the block for a little bit,

and then the wings won, I think, like five straight or something like that. And so then they were like, now hold on, maybe we keep Routuzi. And it's like, you know, this becomes the Columbus Blue Jack. Jackets thing to a certain extent where it's like, is just getting into the playoffs that fucking important to you? You know, like, that you would, I don't want to say jeopardize your future, but not make the most of your, of your opportunities to improve for the long term, because this team's not that good.

Yeah. Right? Like, look at their five on five numbers. They're fucking awful at five on five. I'm pretty sure about that. Now I got to double check, but let's go with that premise. Like, it's just, you know, you don't look at this and go, oh, you know, if they get into the first round, well, anything could happen. You know, it's like, technically that's true just because this is the NHL.

But like, come on, man, we don't have to, again, we don't have to pretend like this. You don't, but also. Yeah, 46% of the expected goals at five on five. They're not a good team at five on five. You want to have the experience. You want to give your fans. something you want to I mean your owner wants

the revenue even if it's just the two home dates it's not just all about winning the cup I know we say it is but but again that's only because this is a broke ass league right like if this was a league where teams

didn't have didn't feel like oh boy it would really be nice to get two home playoff dates worth of revenue you know yeah um I don't know. I just, if I'm them, I'm still trading Bertusie.

Like, it doesn't. And the other guy is Dylan. To do an own rental. Right. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Well, just, I mean, the Dylan Larkin thing is, I feel like we're maybe not talking about it enough.

I know we've been over it a few times and there's nothing new to say. But that is the story, right? Like, no extension in place. No, from what we've heard. no talks, nothing near now. Eisenman's like notoriously locked up on stuff. But yeah, like where's, what are you doing with your captain and arguably best player, at least best forward? Are they going to let them walk?

Like it feels like they're not going to trade them because you would think we would have heard more by now? Yeah. I don't know. That's kind of a big, interesting name that it doesn't. doesn't feel like, and again, this is, Eisenman doesn't really seem like the guy who plays the messaging game, so maybe that's just all we're seeing, but it's strange to me, isn't it? Yeah, like I say, I just think, it's just a tough situation because Eisenman's whole deal is like, you're worth what you're worth to us.

We're not going to overpay you just because you're the captain of the team from Michigan, went to University of Michigan, like, we're not going to overpay you. And apparently Larkin wants like nine million. bucks or whatever and it's like yeah he's not really worth nine million dollars like right now you know if the cap goes up you know whatever three four years from now maybe he is worth nine million bucks but right now that you know with the flat cap and everything that's just not what the number is or should be I guess um I'm I'm really interested but again like the idea that like you're going to be an own rental when you have like a 20 or 30% chance to make the playoffs and you're going to do that with two guys that would

you know like I don't know that Larkins is good as team O'Meyer but he certainly plays a more sought after position right and you know being a captain and all that shit like matters to teams um but like if I if I'm if I'm I'm eyeserman and I'm like oh everybody wants a piece of Tim O'Meyer, like, would you like a Tyler Routuzzi if you lose out on that deal? Like, I don't know how you don't make that push. Again, like, I hate the term own rental and I hate the concept of it even a lot of the time. Like, unless you're the Bruins or the Leafs or somebody like that where you're in, like, absolute, like, you've got to go psycho win now mode. Yeah.

You know? for a team that has like, you know, a less than one and three chance of making the playoffs, I'm not too excited about the concept of doing fucking two name brand own rentals. That seems crazy to me, but it seems like what they might do. I don't know. Yeah, I'm, I think I'm with you. And I hope if I'm a Wings fan, I hope that there's something simmering here that we just don't know about because yeah yeah sure I don't know now let me uh one other thing I want to say

about the east uh playoff race is again like everything else seems kind of locked into place Carolina seems like it's going to win uh you know barring disaster or the devil's going on another hot run uh it seems like it's Carolina as the as the winner of the metro then Rangers, Devils in the first round and then, you know, everybody knows what's going on in the Atlantic. But did you see Travis Yos talking about this

over the weekend that the number one team in the Western conference isn't ahead of any of the top six in points or points percentage in the east? Yep. That's wild.

Like Vegas right now is the best. Vegas, a team that we've talked about it multiple points this year. It's like, oh, they're kind of disappointing. They're really racked with injuries. They're the best team. Yeah, they're the best team in the Western Conference. Yep. Which is, you know, it's funny because there's been so much complaining about the playoff system and 1v4 versus 1v8. And it's like, man, what do you do with this? It's, it's going to be, it's going to be something. And, and, you know, I struggle with this because I do my power rankings where I've got like my top five cup contenders, what do you do?

Can the top five cup contenders all be from the east? They can't be because they all have to play each other. Whoever is the favorite in the West should be number two. But who the heck is that? And how do you put a team like that ahead of a New Jersey or Toronto or Tampa? I don't know. I haven't really figured it out yet. Yeah, it's just, I don't know that I've ever seen it.

like you remember 10 whatever 12 years ago when the West was just like no we have like 70% of the good teams in the league yep I don't think I've ever seen it like this though where it's like no like we we have we have 70% of the best teams in the league and the best teams in the other conference aren't even close to what we have at the top of the league like this is this is ridiculous in a way that I don't think I've ever seen before. Just again, like, you know, you drop the Rangers, a team that at various points this year, we were like, ooh, they could like drop off the face of the earth and it wouldn't be surprising. Obviously, you know, the goaltending came together and all of a sudden the Rangers are really fucking good, you know. But like, it's like, oh, no, they are, they would be comfortably the best team in the Western Conference.

And the other amazing thing is if you would describe that scenario, your first thought is, okay, it must be that the East is also really bottom-heavy. Because of the unbalanced schedule, the good teams are feasting on the bad teams. But it's not. It's the worst teams are all out west with the exception of Columbus, right? It's Arizona, Chicago, the Tankers, Anaheim's awful. San Jose Vancouver. The bottom six teams in the East, in the West, rather. The bottom six teams in the West, Vancouver, Arizona, San Jose, Chicago, Anaheim.

They all have a 430 or worse points percentage. They're all below Montreal, and Montreal's the second worst team. Yeah, and Columbus is the only team worse that would be lower than any of the six teams I mentioned in the Western Conference. It's crazy. It is. Now, again, like, you can look at it and you go, well, Ottawa obviously stinks. Philadelphia stinks, the Canadian stink, which is

true, like across the board. All those teams are bad. But they're not bad in a way that, again, like there are just three like openly tanking teams in the West. So and they just can't be any worse than that. It's kind of really wild.

But I don't know. I wonder how that ends up affecting the trade market too, obviously, just because it's like is every good player just going to, because that's what's really happened so far is all the good players have been traded from the west to the east. Yep.

Somebody's going to stay in the west or go from the east to the west, right? Like, it can't be the east or the only fucking buyers. But so far, that's what's happened. Yep. You would think. The rich get richer, as they say. They do. And so, yeah, like, when's Arizona going to, or Arizona.

When's Colorado going to do? something. When's Dallas? When's Vegas? You know, they all have, they all have some flexibility. And it does feel like, you know, that one big aggressive move from one of the Western teams could. Really kick to start the market. And you're right. A lot of them have room, including, apparently, Vegas, with Mark Stone being out for the year, that frees up room for them.

Yep. So we'll see. We'll see. Why don't we take another break and we'll come back and talk about some other stuff? This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to by Athletic Greens. And folks, what do I say every time we talk athletic greens? I say this. I say, I take AG1 by Athletic Greens literally every day. And I gave it a try because I wanted to avoid having to take all these different vitamins and supplements and stuff like that.

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Athletic greens.com slash puck. All right, we're back. We did the goalie list for ESPN last week, so I feel like we kind of painted ourselves into a corner. Where are we going to do the other list now too? So they did defensemen, which,

hmm, what to say about the defenseman list. Makes total sense. I'll just read them to you here. Number one, Kale McCar. I wish he could stay healthy, but, you know,

that's one of those things. Not really easy. Yeah, well, he's another concussion. We didn't really talk about that, but sounds like he was maybe allowed to go back into a game. He shouldn't have been,

shouldn't have been in. Yeah, I don't think there's any maybe about that, right? Like, unfortunately, that, like, he gets hit in the head. He grabs his head. And then they're like, yeah, you're fine. Get out there, champ.

You know. But inarguably, when he's on, I think, inarguably, this is, no, I guess there can be an argument. But I think when he's on on and he's healthy and everything like that, I don't think there's a more dynamic force on the blue line than Cal McCar. With that said, number two is the guy that makes it arguable, Adam Fox. He, you know, so in the list, ESPN asked 20 people for their number one defenseman. 15 said McCar. The only other defensemen to get multiple first place votes was Fox. And I think, frankly, it should have been a little closer than that, let's say.

I think the thing that's interesting here to me is not the top two because I can't argue. But the fact that two guys that young have become the consensus top two is, is interesting because the blue line has typically been a position where more so than any other, the veteran know-how is recognized and appreciated. And I don't know if this signals a shift or if these guys are just so good that they've kind of smashed past that barrier. I think it's kind of the latter because the next couple guys on the list are older, Victor Hedman and Roman Yossi, which again, like, how can you argue, you know? Those are two names, if nothing else, those are two name brand defensemen who are, you know, I remember, I think it was the last year where people were like, oh, Victor Hedman should get Norris votes and there's like multiple articles where

he's been like, I've been dog shit this year. I've been fucking awful. And, but like him being awful, he's only like the 26th best defenseman in the NHL, you know? Yeah, his awful is not, uh, not really the same as anyone else's. That's exactly right. Yeah. And Roman Yose, it's the same thing.

Obviously, like, he's just a guy who scores a lot. So that's always going to help your, help your case. But like, you know, he's been a great defenseman for a long time. So what can you really say? Next up, Charlie McAvoy, same thing, right? Like, he seems like he is about to join that Macar, uh, Fox stratosphere. Um, especially because like, you know, with, with, with Macar not being able to stay healthy,

like he's going to get a lot of, Maccoy is going to get a lot of Norris attention this year in a way that I feel like he hasn't before and given how good the Bruins are, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, so, so I, so I think, I think he's about to. to enter the like, are we really allowed to put Roman Yossi as the fourth best defenseman with Charlie McAvoy in the league territory? You know? So again, like this list is all checking out for me. Number six is where it's like, oh, the recency bias, I guess.

And again, one of my favorite players of all time, Eric Carlson. But there's a huge drop between five and six, huge drop in terms of like the total points that they received. So, you know, again, like, I got nothing bad to say about Eric Carlson. You'll never get me to do it. But it is interesting that he, just because he's scoring a lot this year on a, on a shitty team. He's still, to this day, is so pretty much. Yeah, he's awesome.

But he's awesome, but he's still so, like, there are smart people out there who absolutely do not have time for Eric Carlson as a top. defenseman because of the perception that he doesn't play defense. Even all these years, I mean, it's a decade now that we've been having this argument about him specifically. To your point, I just read this paragraph here. Carlson received a first place vote from a player, two second place votes and three third place votes, but he was left off six ballots completely, five from hockey ops people and one from a current player.

And that kind of maybe speaks to the divine. a little bit where like hockey ops people are like definitely not. Yeah. Now the other thing I want to say about this though is how much perceptions of players are affected by the quality of their contracts. Yep. If Eric Carlson's making $7.5 million a year and having this season, people are like, holy fuck, can you believe it? You know, like this is the craziest shit that's ever happened. but because he makes 11 and a half or whatever the number,

I think it's 11 and a half. People are like, well, I couldn't say he's one of my 10 best defensemen in the league. And it's like, I mean, look at what, look at the year he's having. You couldn't say this guy right now is one of the 10 best defensemen on earth? Come on, man. So like, I wouldn't put him sixth in the league right now, but I couldn't imagine leaving him off my list. Number seven, Miro Heiskenen.

Sure. Yeah, okay. Number eight, Rasmus Dahlin, again, he's having a great year. And to your point, Sean, those two guys are 23 and 22 years old, respectively. So, um, Jacob Slavin, kind of a surprise for me at nine. Again, like, he's always a weird one, right? Like, he, he gets into the, the, um, who's the, who's the, like, the left wing on the Dallas stars right now. That's the most underrated player in the league.

You know, a tradition as old as time is going to be Jacob Slavin. You know, he's a really like an elite defensive defenseman, and we don't talk about him because he doesn't put on the points. Yeah. Until Devon Taves takes that title from him. It's, we're almost there. But for now. It does feel like we're almost there, yeah. And then last on the list is Dougie Hamilton, which again.

Oh, a little surprised to see him there. Little surprised, for sure. and that's where you get into the Devon Taves and Hampus Lindholm for the years they've been having and Lindholm basically since you get there was an article I think in the Globe recently that was like basically since you got to Boston Hamas Lindholm has been fucking lights out

and it's like you know again just talk about like get a guy off a bad team put him on a good one and suddenly he looks incredible that's Hamas Linholm there's a guy who's having an unreal scene season. Lindholm was an honorable mention, as was Taves. Zach Werensky got a couple of votes, it seems like. Drew Dowdy was the highest ranking player without making the cut.

No, I'm sorry. Had the single highest vote among players who didn't make the cut was Drew Doughty. One player. Fourth, yeah. And Josh Morrissey, Alex, Petrangelo and Moritz cider also received votes. Interesting. So there you go.

Then we'll hopefully go through the wingers quickly because as we said on when we talked about this briefly on the bonus episode yesterday, hard to argue the top nine. You can argue about placement who should be where. But the top nine is Pastornak Kuturov, Kaprizov, Marner, Rantanin, Marshand, Panarin, Kachuk, Robertson. I would have Robertson higher, I'd have a chuck higher. But, you know. Hard to argue. Like, as I said yesterday. Those are the top nine wiggers at the league for me, for sure. Robertson feels like he should be higher, but I'm not sure which of the guys

ahead of him. He's clearly better than that. Panarin probably would be the clear guy you drop out. Yeah. But then number 10, tip of the cap to the old guy. Thanks for everything you've done. Scored a lot of goals. Alex Ovechkin shouldn't be considered the 10th best winger in the league, but here we are. You get why, obviously, but it's just like, you know, come on. The guys who also received votes, Tim O'Meer, Andre Svechnikov, Chris Kreider, Jake Gensel, Kyle Connor, Mark Stone, you know, again, if he could stay healthy, I don't see how you leave him out of the top 10, but he's

can't stay healthy. And then Patrick Kane, one guy said Brady Kachuk, Gabe Landisg, Jesper Brought. You know, again, these are all, these are all like, Brought might be a little bit of a, a little bit of a stretch, but. These are all good players. Wait a second. Oh, you know what?

Try to guess who wrote this one. Finally, there's Jesper Brought of the New Jersey Devils who is tied for 10th in the league and points for left wings this season. He didn't receive a single vote in the top 10. Yeah. Some. But an executive was like, oh, he, he's not on the list, but he should be under consideration. Again, who do you think wrote this article?

Some devil's homer. A hundred percent correct. So, yeah, there's your, there's your housekeeping for those. We still haven't gotten the centers list. But I have a pretty good guess is who's going to be number one on the center's list. And that's a young ending. I'm curious to see the centers. where what happens after

McDavid? Do we bounce back to McKinnon with Matthews kind of not having as strong a year? Is there room for anyone out?

How high does Crosby go? Everybody loves him. How high does Burzurong go? Mm-hmm. Given the year the Bruins are heaven,

that will be interesting. Leon Dreisidal will be in there for sure. Mm-hmm. But let's talk about McDavid. Scored his 800th career point last night and then had another one,

I believe. He is now the fifth fastest player to 800 points in league history behind only Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Mike Bosney, and Peter Stassney. That's it. Crazy that he's in a top five with a bunch of guys from the 80s, essentially, when scoring was through the roof. Very easy. Yeah.

He's phenomenal. And I mean, the one goal that he had last night where he just, just went just, I mean, video game stuff. The guys, he's ridiculous. So long. I'm bored of this shift. I want to go to the bench. I know what to do.

Smell you later. Yeah, no, he, obviously, what else can you say about him, right? Like, someone had a stat earlier today that since he came into the league, he accounts for 10% of all the 100-point seasons that the entire league has had. Oh, boy. That's fucking ridiculous. Yeah. And another guy who's at a couple hundred point seasons plays on the same line as him. So, or at least on the same power play, right?

Let me see if I can find the other thing I wanted to talk about because at the same time McDavid scored his 800th career point, Leon Drysidal scored his 700th career point. And I believe he became the 32nd second. active player to to hit that mark. And I would like for Sean to try to guess who the other guys that are active right now who have 700 career points are. Sure. I'll do it in order.

No, I won't. Are these real active or is this like hockey reference? So hockey reference has three guys that are definitely not in the NHL anymore. Joe Thornton, Elya Kovalchuk, and Jason Pommenville. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to look this up because I want to, he's got to be still playing somewhere, right?

Like to be listed as active. Not necessarily. I think a lot of guys, if they're just not retired, like they haven't officially. He hasn't played since 1819. Wow. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say not. He's just waiting for the call. Hey, Jason?

You know what? You're going to. want to file that paperwork. Rather than trade for Patrick Kane, why not just pick up the phone? Go get yourself, Jason, Paul. Okay, so Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, obviously. Copatar, Bergeron, who would be the other 2003 guys?

Eric Stahl is still in the league. Eric Stahl is still in the league. 2003 guys, so that would give you, Corey Perry Brent Burns I'm assuming even as a defenseman 820 for Brent Burns

So he's in the 800 Jeff Carter Yep that's right I don't think I'm not seeing too many more 2003 guys McDavid obviously We already said

Phil Kessel Would have to be there That's correct Yeah Claude Jureau. Claude Jureau right behind Phil Kessel. Look at that. Kane and Taves.

Patrick Kane is the highest ranking guy that you hadn't mentioned yet, and Jonathan Taves is also correct. Okay, now, lots of other guys, Eric Carlson. Eric Carlson. That's right, 736 for Carlson.

Who else? Nathan McKinnon is he? Just barely over these. He's at 715, so he's in. Okay. What about Matt Dushain? Matt Dushane. Matt Dushane.

I think he is not there yet, maybe. Let's double check. Oh, no, there he is. Yeah, 731. You were right, yeah. Okay. He was just sandwich between Carlson and Pommonville. I didn't see it.

Is Ryan or I'm on Avalanche draft? picks now if people can't tell. Is Ryan O'Reilly on this? No, he is at 696. So close to him yet so far. All right. Needs one more game against the Sabres. And he'll be there.

Brad Marchand is probably there. Yep. 844. Boy, would you have guessed 844 for him, though? No, I wouldn't. That seems like a lot. Yeah. He's going to get to a thousand, no problem.

Is Panarin there? Or Temi Panarin cannot be here. No, he's at 634. Okay. I would say you're missing one old guy, another guy who is like extremely obvious. Oh, uh, Pavelsky would be. Pavelsky is the old guy. Okay.

There's another old guy right below him, not quite as old as him, but, um, um, let me see if I can, if I can get his hints on the list. Jamie Ben is on the list That's right And I'm looking for some other old guys Oh Baxter must be there right Backstrom is there

Not the old guy I was referring to But Yeah Backstrom's there You know what there is one more guy From the O3 draft I believe Is Zach Pureze still

That's the one, yep Yeah, all right Okay Yeah, that's right. Okay. And if there's any other... There is a future Hall of Famer that you are 100% leaving out. Okay.

Like a no doubt about it, Hall of Famer. Mm-hmm. Hmm. And then everybody else on the list is like he will not make the Hall of Fame, but he had a nice career for himself. Okay. So the one Sure Fire Hall of Famer that I'm missing is... And one maybe borderline Hall of Famer. But I kind of doubt it with the borderline guy.

What's the conference for the Surefire Hall of Fame? Both of those guys are in the Eastern Conference. Both in the East, okay. And hell, both of them are in the Atlantic Division. All right. Well, Tage Thompson is the Surefire Hall of Famer. Well, that's right now. He's not quite there yet.

I think he's only at like 600 points this season. Is the borderline guy Taylor Hall? No. Is Taylor Hall? 692, so you were close, but not quite. I would have thought he would have more. He was on a lot of bad teams. He was, yeah.

Doesn't help. Oh, Stamcoast. That's the Hall of Fame. And Kuturov? Kutrov also 696, just sure. And I think by the time it's all said and done for him, he's a Hall of Famer. Yeah. What a Mice, what a scoring title.

Florida wouldn't have. anyone, right? Like, I don't think Barcove is there. I'm not seeing any Florida guys. No, no, no. Okay.

Florida, Tampa. Tavares. Tavares is the other borderline Hall of Fame. You got remaining here, you got a couple of guys with Winnipeg connections,

not necessarily on the jets now. One is, but one isn't. Shifley, the guy? Nope. Not old enough.

Wheeler, then. That's correct. Yeah. 9.09 for Wheeler. Who would have thought? Yeah, he's been around forever. I mean, that's... He sure has.

It doesn't fully surprise me. Is Evander Kane? No. Okay. No. This is another old guy. Not quite as old as all the 03 draft guys, but like pretty close. Okay.

With a Winnipeg connection. Connection for Winnipeg, but not currently on the Jets. I don't know that one. I'm assuming Exjet Yes, XJet Yep ExJet old guy

Eastern Conference now I'll even say he's in the Metro I don't know A guy, okay We'll circle back to him Okay One guy who was just in the news This week for

For reaching a career milestone That isn't points Eastern Conference guy I want me to narrow it down a little more. Scanning down in my in my head. Is Max Patcher Ready? Would he be on the list? I know he wasn't in the news, but, uh...

Nope. Um, no, no, no. Max Patcher Reddy, 645. He is 44th among active players. Okay. Again, not counting the guys that we talked about who are extremely inactive at this point. Right. Uh, he is 44th.

Um, so, Let me see here. Two Boston connections remain on the list. Okay. Pasturac wouldn't be there yet. He's got to have a ways to go. Boston Connections. And not Taylor Hall.

We said Berger on Marshan. We said Taylor Hall, who wasn't there. So I think that... Old guy on the Bruins. Old guy on the Bruins. Yeah. Hmm. Not like Charlie Coyle or he's not there yet.

Not Charlie Coyle. Thank you. Even older than that. Like think Patrice Berseran style. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Craachie, yes. Yeah, David Craachian. Of course. Now, there's another Bruins guy.

Well, ex-Bruins guy. And you mentioned two of his teammates already. Oh, boy. Okay. Give me the divvins. vision for the experts guys. The central. The central, okay.

Wouldn't be a Chicago guy. Nope. It would be St. Louis. Nope. Wouldn't be... This isn't the guy, but is David Perron, has he got... You know what? He is at dead even 700 career points.

He's the last guy on the list. Bryce Idol passed him last night. Okay. All right. So the central guy, I've mentioned. I haven't really talked to anyone in Minnesota, but I don't think that. We said Dallas. Oh, yes, yes, it's Tyler Sagan.

Tyler Sagan, that's right. Now you got two left. One of them is the old guy with the Winnipeg connection. The other guy, I believe, if I'm just going to look really quickly, has played his entire career in the Metropolitan Division. and he's, I wouldn't say old, but definitely older, for sure. He's, he's in his early 30s. It's not Chief Van Ramesdike because he wasn't. No, both of them have more than 800 career points, like comfortably in the 700 point club.

What division is the Winnipeg connection? They're both in the metro. Both in the metro. At this point, yeah. All right. And the Winnipeg, the Winnipeg connected guy has bounced around a lot. in his career. The other one has only played for two different teams.

All right. The guy who has bounced around. I'll say this for the guy who's bounced around. Colorado, St. Louis, Winnipeg, Vegas, Carolina. Okay. That's Paul Stassany, and I totally forgot he was with. Completely forgot he was with Carolina. I'm going to say this, until I was writing about the

hurricanes like a week or two ago, I was with you. And then the other guy, this is a guy I wouldn't have ever guessed had 800 career points. But he definitely does. He has 806. He's only played for two teams, but he is on his second stint with his first team. Oh, is this, um, the, the Atkinson Voracek, uh, trip, uh, yeah, Jacob Vorichick would be? Jake Vorichick, yep. Okay.

That's right. All right, yeah. And that's it. Those are all the guys. You got them. Folks, this is why he's fucking one of the best in the biz. Yeah. Now, if it had been guys from this point 40 years ago, I would have done that a lot quicker.

Yeah, for sure. But, yeah, so that's the show this week. Sean, why don't you hit him with your plugs? Find me on the athletic, as well as on the athletic hockey show with Ian Mendez on Thursday, where we recap all the trades that happen as soon as we finish recording Puck Soup. And you can find all my deadline stuff from weeks past and the next nine days to come. Wow, there you go. For me, as usual, EPRink side, check it out.

We got all kinds of trade-related stuff going on right now, including people going through, you know, like a, like prospects people, not dumbasses like me, like people who know all the prospects and stuff like that. Going through like a lot of the teams that are expected to be major players at the deadlines, they're looking at all their farm systems like here's what you need to know about all of these guys, blah, blah, blah. Let's see. What else we got going on over there?

I'm doing trade grades like I mentioned earlier for literally every trade. It doesn't matter if it's like a third round pick for a guy. for a guy you've never heard of in a seventh round pick or whatever, you will get my take on that trade. And if it's anything like the Tyler Mott trade, it's me going, I guess I don't care about this. Yeah. And then the patreon.com slash pox soup.

We just did a bonus episode yesterday with this guy named Gorge Galinsky. And he... He was very good. He was quite good for a guy who doesn't have a podcast. He did well. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. but he uh you know we we talked about uh this is the listener voted one and they said just like

give us your your 20 like a roster of your favorite players of all time it's not a draft or anything like that just give us like 20 guys you think kick ass like by position all time and so we did it um and then we got other stuff we got stick to sports we got a wrestling podcast coming later this week and all that kind of stuff Um, so yeah, I guess that's it. Uh, thanks so much for listening to this podcast and, uh, go, go over to the Patreon and we're about to record a mailbag. So, uh, have a good one, folks. Bye bye bye bye.

See you over there. Bye-bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. But we also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey. nonsense poor

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