Puck Soup - Misery Loves Company

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

Sean and Ryan talk about the bad situations in Columbus, Winnipeg, and Detroit, then some contract news. Get bonus episodes and more at Patreon.com/PuckSoup Sponsored by Quince (quince.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from the perfect takes newsletter and the hockey news. I'm Sean McHugh from The Athletic. And, well, Sean, okay, you know, training camps opened last week. And I guess what happened was I called it awkward press conference week in the NHL. Okay. There were three, maybe even four awkward press conferences across the league in Columbus, in Detroit, in Winnipeg. You get to pick which one we start with. I mean.

Anyone you want. Doesn't matter to me. They're all on the outline all day. I'm a big, like, eat your vegetables first, guys. So let's do the one that I don't want to do, which is Columbus. Because I hate putting the boots to these guys because life has put the boots to these guys. It is remarkable. Like the amount of, like, misery and tragedy that follows this.

team around. I feel like they don't, like, I know that they're still relatively new in the big scheme of things, but. They've been around for 20 plus 25 years. Yeah. Like, they don't get enough credit as like a miserable fan base. And I mean miserable in the sense of they've had misery inflicted on. Immiserated fan base.

They're actually pretty pleasant given, you know, like, I understand if you're putting together a list of like hardest teams to root for. You're going to have the Leafs. You're going to have the New York Jets. You're going to have, you know, teams like that that have been around for much longer. 80 years, yeah, of course. I mean, at some point, you got to get, you got to think you're in the door with 25 years of this stuff. So yeah, let's get into it.

Okay, sure. Well, I guess we'll start with the biggest. name here is Adam Fantilly, not at camp, not signed. Doesn't, from what I can gather, sound like they're particularly close to getting that contract agreed to?

And I was looking at this the other day because I wrote about the blue jackets for the newsletter this weekend. And I was like, is Adam Fantilli already the best center in franchise history?

Uh. Oh, man. Yeah, maybe he might be. And he's not even, that's a crazy thing to say about a guy who is not established as a number one center in this league yet. Well, that's exactly right. Like, he's, he's, I think they were saying on the athletic show yesterday, like, he's not a number one center for half the teams in the league. And it's like, well, that, I might even say. say it's more than that, but that still means he's a quote-unquote number one center.

If you're a top 32 center in the league, you're a number one center just kind of definitionally. Obviously, I think we all understand that there's degrees to that. And is he top 32? Like if you... He's right. I'd say he's got to be maybe in the high 20s. There are definitely some teams that have... Like 28, 29, 30.

There are definitely teams that have a number two center that you would put ahead of Adam Fantilli. but absolutely but yeah okay so he's a borderline number one it's him or boon jenner those are those are your two options for best center in franchise history there's not really even a close third r j umberger and nick felino or the other two that you could really make like a points per game argument for and it's like oh r j umberger the guy who wasn't that good no offense to him but like nobody ever mistook him for a number one center right so i i guess my thing with with it is like I don't know what the impediment here could be for Columbus. Yeah.

You have, well, I guess the impediment is you have 11.7 million in cap space and he wants more money than that. So somebody was telling me the other day just in a, in a group text, they're like, I don't understand what the blue jackets are doing here. You're not a destination. Nobody wants to play for you. you've got this guy, you have no leverage,

give him whatever he wants. The problem there is if the sort of people that go in group text with me know this, then I'm pretty sure Adam Fantilli and the smart people around him know it too. So, I mean, what's the offer?

Like, I mean, if he's going to them saying, Yeah, it's 20 million. Do you still have to do it if he says it's Leo Carlson money? Do you still? Like, it's somewhere you've got to draw a line. I don't disagree with what you're saying. But my thing is, if you're drawing the line, you're basically saying to that player, we're fine without you, right?

We'll go into the season. No problem. you sit at home, you stew, you don't collect the paychecks, and then you come back to us when you're ready to come down a little bit, right? Like that's, I don't think you are if you say, you know, we're not going, we're not doing Leo Carlson. Let's say the number's 14. Right. Like if. Yeah, sure. Let's say the number's 14.

Yeah. They don't have the cap space to accommodate 14 right now. And that's not Adam Fantilli's problem. He has no obligation to manage their cap for them. Right. But like, I look at their, I look at their cap situation, right? And I go, nobody here is breaking the bank. The highest paid player on the team is Zach Wrenzky and he makes nine and a half million bucks.

He won the Norris last year. Hats off to him. He can have more than that, like the open market. You know, he goes up as a free agent this summer instead of next summer or whatever. You know what I mean. He's going to make a hell of a lot more than that. but the problem is six and an eighth for Nchuschen,

six for Charlie Coil, six for Connor Garland, eight and a half for Roverov, six and a quarter for Severson. And it's like, oh, I see what the problem is here. They paid the Columbus tax for all these like

middle six middle payer guys. And then they were like, oh shit, we don't have money to pay our number one, the best center in franchise history. for better. And that's that's totally right and totally fair. If that's the sort of numbers we're talking about,

if it's simply a case of this is our cap space and we won't go over that, then absolutely. It's not his problem. I think in the current market, you know, the cutter Gauthier is probably a reasonable benchmark. I'm just wondering if, if it's possible that

Fantilli and his people are like we have so much leverage here we're going to shoot for the moon like go for a much higher number and and just force Columbus into

doing it knowing that if Columbus refuses to do that the ways it could play out include getting traded which probably isn't the of the world for it. Oh no, don't trade me off the Columbus blue jackets. Yeah, of course. And it also includes them saying stay home, right? Which is not a holdout because he doesn't have a contract to hold out from. But yeah, go ahead, sit at home. Does the new CBA still

have the December 1 deadline? I'm not sure if it's a great question. I'm sure they, I'm sure it's in there. But I don't remember seeing that. If it's not December 1, it's going to be, yeah. So, you know, and you do that whole dance, at which point, I mean, if I'm Adam Fantilli, I'm sitting there going, they're going to blink before I do. Like, no, you're right. I'm not going to kiss away a full year of my career, but they're not going, like, that's the thing that is crazy to me about the Blue Jackets. You talk about the best center in franchise history. The single best player in franchise history at this point is Zach Wrenzky. He is past Rick Nash still?

Because Rick Nash was always a very good player, but Rick Nash never won anything. Rick Nash was never... Rocket or two. He won one rocket by scoring 41 goals, and it was a three-way tie. So, you know, I haven't done my rankings of how much each Rocket Richard counts, but that one counts. less than anybody else's. You know, Zach Wrenzke just won the Norris trophy. I think he's the best player in franchise history.

I think you can definitely be that argument. I'm a big Rick Nash mark, though. So, you know, like, that's my whole thing. Either way, that guy this summer was like, this stinks, I hated here, we're never going to win anything. Please trade me. And they did. They made a deal with another.

team. They negotiated a trade. At which point, Zach Werenski said, you know what, I've changed my mind. I would like to stay if we can get better and win something. At which point Columbus said, that sounds fantastic. Welcome back. And then proceeded to do essentially nothing all summer long to get better. Well, they traded for Nachushkin. You know, you don't. You don't. You know, you know, don't think that gets them over the hump? Maybe it does. And look, I'm not saying that the smart thing to do would have been to trade a bunch of first round picks for immediate help. And I'm knowing you, I'm pretty sure where you land on that question. But at some point, like, pick a lane, right? I mean, the horse was already out of the barn, right? They had traded for Garland. They had extended coiled. I can't remember the timeline on when Nachushkin got trained. versus when the Werenzky deal got traded, but, or, uh, got nixed. Um, but, like, they were going, we're all in with a bunch of older guys. You know, that, that was just kind of how they,

how they approached the summers. They either extended or, you know, had recently traded for guys who are perfectly good players, but don't feel like they're going to get this Columbus team anywhere in particular. Look, I've said it before. Jack Reeves had an awesome season. He's not exactly, like, he is a rookie, but he's been around for a few years in that organization and that kind of thing.

But what are the odds he does that again? They're not, you know, as Dustin Wolf. I mean, I... They're good. I think they're good in the sense that I think he's a legit, but to sit here and say

it's, hey, he's going to get better or he's going to do the same thing because he was young and now he's a year. Like, you just have to look at Dustin Wolf last year. Very similar situation and it went bad. Not because Dustin Wolf turned out to be bad, but just. He was on the Calgary Flames. I'm not holding it against him, right?

But, yeah. Jack Reeves is on the Columbus Blue Jackets. And I don't think, I think Zach Werenski is one of the best defensemen in the league. What are the odds that he is as good as he won the Norris? That's really fucking hard to do. Even for an elite defenseman, like he. is. So I

and what did they miss by? They were like O.T. Merchants big time. They went they had like the third most overtime games in the league last year. And they missed by like six points. Yeah. They were right in the race and then they fell apart. Right. Which led Rick Bonas to be like all these guys are fucking losers. I can't stand them. They make me sick to my stomach. Looking at those guys is awful.

So let's talk about that because the other thing and and I mean, God, there's Marcuse. We'll talk about Markentle for sure. But let's put a pin in him. The Rick bonus comments

about two guys showing up out of shape. I mean, I guess that's all of it, right? Like that's the whole bit of news. And he's not well, he said two guys showed up out of shape and we're going to deal with it, but he wouldn't say who it was. And of course, they don't have the fitness testing this year.

which makes me think that somebody's showing up out of, it's one of two things. Either this is just Rick Bonas being an old guy, just eyeballing somebody and being like, you're out of shape with no subjective way to know that. Or two guys showed up really actually. They looked like Homer Simpson in the episode where he tries to work from home. Yeah, they were, they were in moo-moos.

They're wearing the, they're wearing the moo-moos and everything. They just want to see honk if you're horny in peace. Exactly. I will tell you though, like when I saw that, I went back and I dug up the Rick bonus comments from the postgame press conference after the final game of the season to see, I was like, are they as, was it as bad as I remember? It's bad. I also watched it this weekend. Yeah. It was so much worse. So how's that on changing the culture going for you, Rick? Let me read a few.

These are direct quotes, okay? I don't know if I'm back next season, but if I'm back, I'm changing the culture. He is back. These guys, they don't care, which is, that is a, if you're trying to insult a hockey player, that's about as high as you can go up the top shelf. He continues, losing is not important enough to them. It doesn't bother them. This is why we're out of the playoffs, that kind of effort.

losing you have to hate losing i don't care if it's a meaningless game i don't care show up and compete and then later he was asked um about the six game losing streak down the end of the city which by the way i love this i love when somebody at a press conference is just on a roll and so the media is just like let them cook yeah absolutely let's just bait the hook and so they asked him about that how how did you guys fall apart down the stretch. And bonus says, because it got tough, because it got hard, like we talked about after the break, it's going to get harder. Everything is good as long as it's going their way.

And now it gets tough and we don't want to battle back. And he says, we're going to change that if I'm back. But man, oh man, these guys are so lucky the season is over and there's no practice tomorrow. That is as negative as I've ever heard a coach go on a team. and then they bring back the coach and pretty much the same roster and apparently a couple guys show up out of shape, which, yeah, I mean, again, I don't know. I don't know what out of shape means in Rick Bonas's world, but this guy seems to really hate a big chunk of his roster. And, yeah, I mean, they made some changes, including the captain going out of the door. So maybe that changes the culture.

But man, oh man. It's, what a mess. Yeah. And this is the classic thing. And we're going to talk about this with the Red Wings after the break in a few minutes here. But like, this is the classic thing to me of we don't have a good enough roster. The coach can't just say that. And, you know, you got to work with the tools you have available to you.

But they don't have a good enough roster. And they didn't really improve it. Again, I like Nchuschen as much as the next guy. But is he moving the needle for this Columbus Blue Jackets team? Probably not, right? With, we can, I guess, put it this way. With Fantilli out, who's their number one center this year? Is it Sean Monaghan?

Is it Cole Cillinger? You know, is it Charlie Coyle again? That's not great. and like they're just so set up for failure in terms of if Werenski's not on the ice, how good is this team versus the like average non-playoff team? Probably not very good. When he's on the ice, no problem. But he's only one man.

And this is the other thing. And this is where we can talk about Marchenko. if there are guys who, and I guess this is to bonus's point, like they don't care enough or whatever, if multiple guys on your team have an eye on the door, is that going to help you win this season? Marchenko wants out, maybe Werenski halfway through the years, like, you know what, I was right the first time. Get me the fuck out of here. If Fantilli's not even signed. If he's not signed or if Fantilli signed to like a.

one year deal just to get it, kick the can down the road. He's not, he's not, he's not, you know, he's not going to happen. He's not, he's got, uh, a lot of team control left. But like, he's not even arbitration eligible right now. But I'm saying like if it, if it got down to deadlines. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The two sides could say, okay, rather than miss a year. Sure.

One year, 10 million will figure it out next year. And then you do the whole thing over again. Yeah. No, but, but this is what I'm saying is like. this is just an organization that is constitutionally set up to fail year after year, because to them, success is making the playoffs. And you don't have to, like, I think that's just impossible to disagree with at this point. They're like, oh, if we just make the playoffs, we had a good season.

And it's like, I guess you've got to walk before you can run, but this is a decades-long. problem now. And so let's talk about Marchenko. Yeah, I'm guessing you weren't, you weren't soothed by his media appearance? No, so he does a media appearance. After a summer where everybody's just kind of like, yeah, they got to trade him. He doesn't want to be there. He won't extend after this season. This is the last year of his deal. And he's two years away from UFA. So if he's not going to sign there, they probably should trade him, basically. And he gets to camp and the media sticks a bunch of microphones in his face and they're like, do you like playing hockey here?

And he's like, well, I like playing hockey. And they're like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You missed the last word there. We said, do you like playing hockey here? He's like, well, I'm playing hockey here, so I guess I like it. And it's like, that's not, that's not reassuring. It was not reassuring. And it also, like, it felt like he didn't prep for this at all.

Like, he was just, they're like, go out there and wing it, man. Well, I'll say. Who cares? English isn't his first language. So I think that probably plays a factor in it. But, I mean, he's in the Dillon Larkin situation. And again, we're going to talk about the Red Wings in a minute. But he's in the Dillen Larkin situation where he can't just go and be like,

yeah, get me the fuck out of here, please. Like to Aaron Portsline and Brian Hedger or whatever. Like, he's not going to do that. That's just not how it works in this sport, you know? And so he's just going to say the best thing he can, which is like, I'm here. I'll play. I'm going to try hard. And then, you know, hopefully that means that gets someone interested in trading for me is what goes unsaid there.

But, I mean, there's ways to say. that in a more reassuring way. You know, there's, and again, you know, English, not his first language, so we have to factor that in. But you would typically expect somebody to come in and say, look, there were conversations that happened in the offseason. I'm going to keep those private. Don Waddell knows what concerns I expressed.

We went back and forth on it. Fact of the matter is, I'm here, so I'm 100% focused on winning hockey games for the Columbus Blue Jackets and having the best season I can, and the other stuff can sort itself out at some point in the future. But right now I'm here, and I'm going to give my all for this team. Or you could just go, eh, I like hockey's fun. They pay him a lot of money to do it, you know? So I'd like it too if I were him.

But again, like there can be any number of reasons he doesn't want to be there. I think the biggest one, if I had to hazard a guess, is that they stink every year. And again, like, there's a million reasons for it. They've never had a truly great center in 25 years, right? They've, I mean, they had Sergey Bobrovsky. He was a great goalie for a lot of years for them. But since he left, their goalies just stink every year.

It's unbelievable. I looked this up the other day. What was the stat? Corpuselho and Merzleacans are their two most used goalies since, Bobrovsky left across 394 appearances between them 83 goals saved below expected and they're just like yeah we're bringing that guy back

and in fact he's starting 50 games next year you know like every year Jet Greaves comes in maybe that's a glimmer of hope but they didn't make the playoffs with him playing unbelievable last year unbelievable for a rookie I guess I should say and it's like if you're Marchenko, if you're Fantili, if you're Werenski,

how are you not looking around and all these other guys are moving because they see their current teams as kind of dead ends? And you're going, well, with Columbus it's different. You know what I mean? I just don't know how you can arrive at that kind of a thought process or a decision or whatever. So I don't blame these guys for being like, yeah, man, this sucks. everybody in this league, the only thing they care about is winning the Stanley Cup. And...

I think there's a few guys who seem to care about some other things, but... Well, sure, but you know what I mean. Like, I've talked about it a million times, like the idea of rings culture, where it's like if you don't have rings, you've wasted your career or whatever. And that is just how these guys think, and it's not just hockey anymore.

It's it the NBA is is very much like this all those guys go into the Dodgers that for that's for that reason, you know, and you know, I don't know, man, I just sit there and I go, well, you know, this is a, this is a situation where if you're a rings hunting guy, Columbus might be the worst team in the league historically to be on. I know they're, you know, Vancouver or Minnesota, those are other teams that have never won anything. But like, at least those guys have gotten close a few times. Yeah. Columbus, it's like. One playoff round one in 25 years is almost unfathomable. The most obvious, like, okay, that was a fluke. Like, you know, the classic Reddit post of like, don't you think the Blackhawks should get a do-over for that?

Remember that? Yeah. The lighting probably should have gotten a do-over for that, given how well their season went that year. And then, you know, they get to the second round and they get just fucking, I don't even remember who they played in the second round, but they got fucking smoked by them. And it's like, okay, well, that was worth, I looked it up the other day. It was like seven picks and four or five prospects was what they paid to get. those six playoff wins that year? I don't know, man.

But the misery doesn't end there for Columbus because now in practice, teammates are like elbowing and two-handing and high-sticking each other to the point where like it's being talked about as like, whoa, that was crazy. Yeah. By the local media. Good, though.

I mean, that's... Well, they care. Rick Bonus loves it. Yeah, that certainly seems like what Rick Bonus would want, right? Like, at least these guys seem to have heard the message and are at least going through the motions of looking like they paid attention.

Well, maybe like when they're pushing and shoving in the corners, one of the guys is going, I'm going to be the one that gets traded first. And the other guy's like, hold on. Hey, man, when I get traded, you're getting more ice time for this. Oh, no. Screw you, man. Come on. You're going to raise your kids in Columbus.

Don't bring my family into this. But yeah, man, I I struggle to see a path to the playoffs for these guys. And, you know, I don't think that's me going out on a crazy limb. But I guess what I'm saying is, like, if it's another lost year in Columbus, and it certainly feels that way on, oh, it says here, September 22nd. Like, oh, maybe they shouldn't even bother showing up, you know, to a whole season, 84 games.

Like, why would you want to, like if you're Adam Fantilli, why would you want to be there? If you're Carol Marchenko, if you're Zach Werenski, if you're anybody, literally anybody else on the team. Don't you want to just go like, well, no, Charlie Coyle found a sucker. They were like, we'll pay you till you're 40 years old.

How's that sound? He said, oh, that sounds great. But, at the end of the day, I just I just don't understand what they think the future is there. The only positive thing I'll say, and this came up because I was when I was writing the newsletter, I was looking at Dom's season preview,

which of course come out in reverse order of projected standings. He's 16 teams in and he hasn't gotten to the Blue Jackets yet. So there must be something that there's got to be something about this team that is looks better to the model, the numbers, the X, whatever it is, that looks better than you would think. Okay. So I guess what I should say in response to that is I don't think this is like a last play. They have plenty of good players. And one or two borderline, well, one borderline great one, like you can make the argument on like Fantelli or whatever. But they, and they have an elite defenseman who plays 28 minutes a night or whatever the number is, you know.

Like, but this to me is like the we're going to finish 20thist team in the league. You know what I mean? Like they're not, they're not bad enough to be in the running for a lottery pick. But they're also just like, even if they make the playoffs, I guess that feels like a win for them. But is it, you know, like just given where everything is and where everything seems to be going? Like, is that, I think this is the existential question here. Is Zach Werenski happy making the playoffs and getting nuked in round one? Is he like, you know what?

That is actually winning in Columbus to me. if the answer is yes then great but if you lose if they lose Zach Wrenski they trade them for the second summer in a row I don't know what you do with this team anymore well then it's a full start over which I'm saying that but they were trading him for

for Thomas Harley they were trading him for immediate help like an immediate replacement so yeah and I don't know like I had I had one person in the summer tell me that trade was actually straight up for Harley. And then I've had other people say, no, no, there were picks and probably like,

Dallas was sending more than that. But I don't know. This team's a lot like, I mean, it's very similar to Winnipeg in the sense of, like, purely from a hockey standpoint, tear it down, rebuild it, trade your superstar, all that stuff, bite the bullet for three years.

You hope. and and relaunch as a team with an actual ceiling of contending for a cup, not just the playoffs. The business side of it says, dude, those three years are going to be extremely rough. So maybe not. And it stinks.

Being a fan of that? It has to be a fucking miserable experience. Yeah. God bless, like if you're a Blue Jackets fan, you're like a day one. Well, not like they,

they were your day one, which means not necessarily from the moment. You were there 25 years ago, yeah. But you've always been, you've always on the blue jackets and you're there now and everything. God bless you, man. That's,

that's got to be, I know it's not a big fan base. So we don't throw flowers at them like we do for, you know, larger fan bases like Buffalo or whatever, but. God bless him. That's, that's loyalty.

Well, and it's like I said in my story is like the Camus thing of like one must imagine Sisyphus happy, like finding meaning in the misery and the like pointlessness of it. Like you have to, because the other thing, the only other way to do it is to just be like, I'm not fucking pushing this rock up this hill anymore. Fuck that. You know what I mean?

And to me, like this, This is, again, this is the ownership problem, but they're not allowed to really fully tank. They got to always be keeping all these guys and blah, blah, blah. And if you're just a fan of the team, I don't know how you, like, get up in the morning and go, oh, I'm really excited for another season. Can you imagine being a season ticket holder?

Here's 10 grand, you know? I don't know what season tickets cost in Columbus, but like, let's say it's 10 grand. can you imagine you're just like it's the day that they take the deposit from you out of your checking account or whatever and you just see that money go out the window and you're like

oh this is worth it to me I don't know that seems crazy but yet thousands of people do it every year it's tough I feel so bad for these fans man all these guys just won out every year there's no anyway we could just kind of circle this idea for another hour, it feels like.

But why don't we take a break and we'll come back about, talk about another team that is having similar miseries. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by our brand new friends at Quince. Welcome aboard, guys. Hey, you know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, the T-shirt you somehow always reach for it. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy, and that's what Quince does best.

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Get free shipping on your order and 365 days return. Now available in Canada and the UK 2. That's QI-N-C-E.com slash puck. All right, we're back and Sean, I'll let you pick once again here. Winnipeg or Detroit? Let's go Winnipeg. Winnipeg it is. Connor Hullabuck officially not at,

camp, but also seemingly not any closer to being traded. Everybody just kind of goes, we know what the situation is. It's kind of intractable right now because nobody wants to trade for a goalie. And in fact, there was a sunny meta quote on NHL.com yesterday or two days ago or something. That was basically him saying like, yeah, look, the thing with goalies is like you can have the best goalie in the world. he doesn't have a good season or whatever. Like there's so much variance in even the elite guys that it's not really worth it to me to give up really good, like a bunch of assets to get a goalie, even if I think that goalie is really good,

because it's less predictable than other guys I could get for a similar price at different positions, basically. Which is probably how a lot of teams are thinking about it, you know? Uh, you would think. Yeah. I mean, well, I don't know if it's a lot of teams, but smart. Enough that is affecting the market. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, what's, what makes that so interesting is when you look at the teams that you would think would be in on Connor Hellebuk, just based on what the roster looks like, New Jersey's near the top of that list and Carolina's near the top of that list.

And, you know, such. Mennie Mettah and Eric Tulski aren't necessarily, you know, some hive mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if, I mean, I think when you look at the Carolina Hurricanes of the last few years, they certainly seem to be following a similar principle. Now, yes. Ultimately, you're, at some point, an asset that you might not like might become so depressed that it has value. right? Like you don't you don't rule anything out and is

but at some point if the price comes down okay maybe the devils are back in or the hurricanes are in but that's not what you want to hear as a Jets fan that's the last thing you want to hear and you it it really does feel like this is just going to

come back to Buffalo and if I'm if I'm Kevin Shevel day off, I'm probably like, man, I wish Sunny Mata hadn't said that publicly. Because I want to at least make the Sabres think they're bidding against somebody. Right. I'm not sure who they are.

I mean, Vegas would be the other team and you never rule out Vegas, but I just don't, I don't see how it's going to work. Yeah. Well, and so the thing with Buffalo is, obviously, like, Lukinen was their goalie that they were going to give us. up. And I think we said it, I don't know, on a recent episode of like, he got a no trade list that kicked in on July 1.

And word on the street is, for obvious reasons, Winnipeg is on that list. And so they don't, like, Winnipeg's not taking back Alex Lyon. Maybe they'd take Colton Ellis, but, you know, there's not the traffic. record there of basically anything like Lukinen and Josh Norris or whoever like also another guy like was probably part of it has a 10 team no trade list now and would obviously put Winnipeg on there because I don't want to go to fucking Winnipeg is what he's saying you know and if that's the case like how does Buffalo even make this work financially let alone if they if they wanted to, you know, like, obviously for them, they should want to, they should

want to be in the Connor Hellebuck business because he's a huge upgrade over, over Luchin and who just had a career best season and all that kind of thing. But I just don't know how you make the money work. Do you go like, oh, here's Mattia Samuelson, you know, like, here's Ryan McLeod? And Winnipeg, like, how to, if you're Winnipeg, how do you sell that to anybody? In the market. Mm-hmm. It's crazy.

I don't see a scenario where Winnipeg gets a deal here that looks, I mean, forget about a win, looks like even a loser point for them. But, you know, which doesn't mean that five years down the line, we can't look back on it and say, okay, they did pretty well. but and especially given the messaging coming out saying they're not looking for futures. I wonder if they circle back to the Oilers or call, like, I mean, it's, on the one hand, he doesn't want to play in Canada. Would he play in Edmonton, though, do you think? Go win a championship economy day. You want to win a championship.

There is one team in the league. that stands above all others as being one elite goaltender away from Stanley Cup favorites. Even a passable goaltender, really, you know? Yeah. And, I mean, he probably doesn't want to be in Edmonton, but would he consider it? They don't want to trade him to Edmonton, although, I mean, they're not even in the same division anymore, but it's still... And if you're Edmonton, you just got Freddie Anderson, and yeah, I know he's hurt and everything, but you probably say, well, this is... more of a move we make in the middle of the season, but

sure, who knows what where Connor Halibuck even is by then. So I, that's probably out. I don't know, man. And I know every Sabres fan is saying, yeah, Shevel-Def should have taken the deal with the draft. He got cute. I think that's kind of undeniable at this point, right? Like, this is, yeah, even if you're like, oh, it was a pretty weak return and we would have only gotten the, um,

the number four pick and not been able to keep the eight or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, which means we probably would have drafted the same kid we wound up with. So yeah, but also, this is a mess now. Yeah, like. And we're a week away from it being a big mess because I will tell, like, even now that he's missing early camp, like, maybe I'm scared off by like the Jeremy Swayman season and other ones. I don't think I want to go near a goalie who's had his preparation disrupted. And, you know, Jeremy Swayman, okay, maybe, hey, he was a young guy, you got to get the contract right. Okay, 33-year-old, I'm not burning a season.

I'm trading for him because I think I can win the cup this year. A 33-year-old coming off a down year in which he had a knee injury, by the way. Yeah. And now he's going to come in. rusty. Let's assume he's in grade A shape. Probably not a bad assumption.

This is a, you know, he's an elite player. I don't think he's sitting on the couch. But rust is rust. And, uh, what a mess. Yep. And again, like, this is another team where it's like, what do they think success is with this group under these circumstances? If they're happy just making the playoffs,

then, hey, They might just do it. Probably not in that division, but you never know. I don't think Stuart Skinner's a bum or anything like that. I don't know if he can play 50 or whatever games that he would have to if Helibuck's not there. But I don't think he's a bum. I do look at this defensive group and I go, oh, it's not great. And I look at the forward depth and I go, it's fine.

They weren't particularly good last year. year. And I guess my real problem is that, like, if you're them, you're really, for a couple of reasons, hoping Vigo Bjork hits hard, you know, like he, the rookie of the year candidate or whatever, because they kind of need him to be, but also because, like, that's a good way to sell tickets and jerseys and stuff, right? But that's an eight, this kid's literally 18 still. He's not even 19 yet.

Wednesday, turn 19. In March? Oh, my God. So you're asking a kid who's going to be 18 for the vast majority of the season. Hey, all we need you to do is go be like a rookie of the year level player. And we might make the playoffs if some other things break our way too. That's a really tough position for any franchise to be in. Especially one that's like, well, we're not going to sell anybody, you know?

You can't move on from any, we need to be in win now mode and we need to win the Hala Buc trade. You don't win a hellabuck trade. You don't win trades for elite players. It's that simple. It's pretty rare. And you basically never win them in the short term. That's right. Yeah.

There's been a handful that you look back. That's, I guess what I meant. But it's not. Brutal. And again, this isn't, maybe. this isn't a problem if they're in the central division, if they're not in the central division. Yeah. Well, I was just thinking, like, that's the one thing that you could say.

If they're in the Pacific, I'd be, oh, they might be fine. Yeah. That's the one thing you could say about Columbus, right, is they're in a division with Carolina, and then, who knows? And there's two playoff spots. Two, yeah. Yep. And look at the two teams who got them last year. Yep.

Uh, I will say, I've got the, I've got the Islanders kind of written in pen as making the play Off. Really? Yeah, that's... Debole. They just have a guy I think is like a top three coach in the league. And they almost got there with a guy I think with bottom five coach in the league. So, you know, I really do think that that alone is enough to...

I'm not saying they're going to a conference final or anything like that, but I think that gets some into the playoffs. I'm pretty convinced. Okay. Seroping. Fair enough. All that. So, anyway. that's just a little aside.

Anything else on the Jets? I don't think so. Okay, great. Skinner looked good last night. I'll take your word for it. So there you go. And that's the thing is, fuck, what was, oh, it was,

there was a Leo Carlson goal that he scored the other night. And people were like, what a goal. Oh my God. And I looked up the guy who he went around very easily. And it's like, He spent most of last year in the ECHL, and it's his first year as a pro. Leo Carlson should be eating those guys up, let alone for $18 million, you know, so let's not put too much stock in pre-season performance, but, you know,

you got to, when you're Winnipeg, you've got to take what you can get, I suppose. Detroit, the last of the miserable press conference teams this week. Mm-hmm. Which miserable press conference would you like to start with? Because there's two of them to choose from. Let's do Larkin first. Larkin first, a disaster, I think, is what you would call that press conference. Just, I wonder if the Red Wings were like, you have to do this press conference.

And he's like, I have nothing to say it. They're like tough shit. Or he was like. And they're right, by the way. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course you do. I what I guess I'm saying is I wonder if he was going I like on going in with the understanding that he has to do it as well or if he was like forced at gunpoint basically

you know but he didn't certainly seem more like the latter because again this is this this was okay so this felt like a guy who was prepped but just wasn't capable of delivering anything that... Yeah, and he doesn't even have the English as a second language excuse, you know, like, because he goes up there and he says, I don't have the quotes in front of me,

but it's something along the lines of, like, I want to be honest with you guys, I'm not going to talk about any of this, basically. Like, he's like, the reasons that I want to be traded, I made the trade request. The reasons I want to be traded are personal and I might never reveal them for any reason,

ever. What other questions do you have for me? And it's like, well, I guess that covers everything, you know? I thought the local media did a pretty good job of being like, have you rescinded your trade request? And he was like, not going to talk about that. Do you understand why you're no longer the captain? Sure, yeah. You know, like, it was all just kind of either the most boilerplate thing you can think of.

Or I'm not going to talk about that for 15 minutes or however long it lasted. 12. What I really liked about this, though, and this is just a sure sign that things are going great, is they talk about the need to get on the same page and not in a way that indicates that they are currently on the same page. You know what I mean? Correct. but at least they have strong leadership in the front office to oh wait yeah um i i want to say this about the larkin thing or i guess i'll pose a question to you i mean is basically would you rather have larkin and marchenko style like i'm here i don't really want to be here but

But I got, contractually, I have to be here. I don't want to lose the money that Connor Hallibuck is seemingly willing to lose. Or would you rather have a Connor Hallibuck who's just like, you fucking figure it out. I'm not sure. I'm not showing. Honestly, I think I would rather have Hellabuck at this point. I think so too. I think so too.

Who we should note has been suspended and is not being paid. And it's not purely a money thing, but at least he's, I got to be honest. Like, I hate the idea of a star player saying, get me out of here because we're not winning enough, unless a franchise has been completely incompetent around him. And I don't think Winnipeg one year removed from the president's trophy is at that level. But, yeah, aside from that, Connor Hellbuck has handled this about as well as you could ever hope. You know, he hasn't said anything. anybody's anything crazy. He's apparently giving them a pretty good list of teams, which, you know, as we talked

about, is not actually that big a list because of circumstances, but, you know, he's... It's certainly bigger than the three or four teams Larkin would seemingly allow. You know, and I think there's a reason why, like, the sense I get is Jets fans are kind of going back and forth on shovel-dive, or sorry, on Halebuck. and and shovel day off but whereas Detroit fans up until a week ago

were unanimously like we hate Dylan Larkin and obviously as the season comes along and if he gets back in the lineup that'll start to change because that's just the nature of fans that's what you do

but yeah the whole deal not a captain no and in fact they did the the Stalin, who's that picture with is that Trotsky, where they just edited him out of the photo. They did, they have like what's called the captain's bench with like standees of all the captains over the years.

It's not like the current captains. It's Eizerman and Lidstreet, you know, like those kind of captains. They just took him out of there. They, they were like, he was actually never the captain. No, no, what are you talking about? We've all, we've all been westworlded and we just can't. see the thing that will hurt us. Yeah, that doesn't look like anything to me.

That's right. And so, yeah, it just creates this like, I'm not saying he's like faking the injury that has held him out of camp, but it is very helpful to all involved that he is currently, that he got hurt in a workout like days before camp started. And I'm not reading anything else into that. that, right? But I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's gotta happen eventually. That being, think.

Him being healthy enough to play. Now, I think we all assume, when he does. Yeah, I think we all assume that if he gets traded, that will miraculously fix whatever, uh, whatever injury he has, but. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a strange time. in Detroit.

Because it's just like the, the, I wanted to say the Walking Dead, but that's not a great analogy because I don't like that show, I suppose. But like, it's just like kind of a zombie situation where it's like he's on the team. He doesn't seem to want to be there. It doesn't seem like all the players on the team

or maybe on board with him being there. Just again, And that's based on nothing but a lot of talk about getting on the same page and being on the same page and are we on the same page. But to me, it really boils down to like, well, I didn't think this team was good last year. They didn't really do anything this summer. And now this happened. And I guess this is where we can talk about Sean Horcoff being named the interim general manager of the team. kind of as part of that announcement, which was on Wednesday or Thursday last week, the team's

owner, Chris Illich, did an interview with the Detroit Press, which is a, you know, easier way of talking to the media and getting your message out there than doing a press conference. And there was one quote, apart from like, it got a little heated at time. Heated might not even be the right word, contentious maybe. but there was one quote in there that I wanted to kind of highlight. And this kind of told me everything about what the situation down there is. They asked him about the report, I believe also in the Detroit News. It might have been the free press this summer that Steve Eiserman had tried to sign Stephen Stamcoast when he was a free agent a couple of years ago.

And that deal had been nixed by someone higher up the chain than him. which implies ownership, right? And they said, you know, is that true, basically? And Chris Illich said something along the lines of, look, I've dealt with a lot of people who have been in leadership positions of the two major teams I own, the Tigers and the Red Wings, over the years. All those guys will tell them, will tell you, I gave them 100% autonomy. And so I would say they would come to me and I would just rubber stamp it.

no problem, you're the expert. And I'd say that happened 99.9% of the time. And it's like, now hold on, big dog. You just said 100. That other number is different from the number you said earlier. And him not directly saying, oh, no, I, that Steven Stamco's thing was fake. That didn't happen, you know. So him going, I give these guys 100% autonomy 99.9% of the time.

was the Stamco's thing the one in a thousand chance? It sounds like maybe it was because he didn't answer the question directly and I can only infer. And, you know, but that's a very, that's a very boss CEO way of looking at it, right? Because if I go to my, if I go to my boss up in an executive suite somewhere and I say, here's an idea that I have. And he says, no, I'm rejecting this. I'm not going to come back to him with similar ideas like that. So he can sit there and say, I only said no once, but, you know, I'm going to go, okay, I'll come back next time I'll come back. Well, he said the no thing.

Well, crucially to me, he said the no thing in a way that was like, I actually say yes, every time. Well, except for, you know, the 0.01% of the time, or whatever the number is, where it's like, okay, well, again, those are just different numbers to me. And the fact that there was no further like, okay, like, I don't know how this interview was conducted. Was this a sit down? Was it over the phone? I don't know.

But to me, it's just like, I hear a number like, I hear someone say a number like that, two numbers like that. And I go, let's dig in on what the difference between those numbers is. And that didn't happen in this interview. The other quote from that was basically, I'm not committing to a GM today. I might not commit to a

GM during the season at all. And to me that is just like a we're not doing this until next summer. You know, maybe unless somebody shakes free or but. Right. Well, and so that's the, that was the other speculation

was that he really wanted to hire Jeff Greenberg. the current Tigers, I think, assistant GM and former Blackhawks executive, and he had worked in baseball before that as well, with the Cubs, I want to say. And again, the theory is that Greenberg was going to be the guy until he said, mm, yep, lose my number, you know. And so the other thing people have been kind of speculating about, I forget where I heard this, so I apologize, but. was basically like, oh, did, does he want to hire someone whose season is currently going on, whether it's with the Tigers or with another baseball team or whatever, maybe a football team? Maybe does he want to go outside hockey, I guess is the question.

And it's like, that's interesting. I guess I hadn't thought about it that way because all these, all these NHL teams ever really seem to do is go, who's the guy who used to play for us? All right. I've made here. I've made a list of guys who used to play here. Here I've made a list of my former roommates. Please create a Venn.

GROC. Please create a Venn diagram. At GROC, is this true? Yeah. So that is really interesting. But in the meantime, Sean Horcoff said in his press conference that they do, he has the full authority to make whatever moves he thinks are right for the team. and that he and Illich are totally aligned on the vision for the future is basically what he said. And this is the other thing he said, is they asked him about maybe the need for a more significant rebuild,

and he said, we're not doing that. We have too many good players to rebuild. Now, I look at a team that's missed the playoffs 10 years in a row, and I say, is that true? Are we sure about that? but, you know, that's... I mean, in fairness, you and I have said on multiple occasions that when you look at the Red Wings roster, the problem that really jumps out to you is... Too much of a good thing. I always say, yeah, absolutely.

There's not enough ice time to go around for all of these. That's right. And, you know, if the tacit implication with all this Larkin stuff that everybody is now acknowledging is kind of 100% fact, is you can't win if Dillon Larkin is, you can't win if Dillan your number one center. Well, great news. Now he's not. You know? I don't know who is.

But it probably won't be Dylan Larkin. So that, congrats. Congrats, guys. We did it, you know? So, yeah, I, I really am not sure what the future holds for this,

for this franchise, except they think that they should be competing for a playoff spot this year. Because if you're not rebuilding and you're not trading Larkin, what are you doing? You know? Oh, and this is the other thing.

Elliot Friedman said something along the lines of, he wonders if Eiserman told ownership that you can't win a Dylan Larkin trade if the idea is that you're winning now. You can win a Dillan Larkin trade involving futures, but you can't win a Dillan Larkin trade in a win now.

mindset. And maybe that's why he got canned. And it's like, well, if that's the case, uh-oh. Uh-oh. And if that's the case and also Sean Horcoff is aligned with ownership, that's, I mean, you're not even connecting dots at this point. You're saying Horcoff is there to either keep Dylan Larkin or win a trade form. Win a win-now trade form.

Yep. Which is, I mean, it's funny. Like, I wonder if you could win a Dillon Larkin trade. Because we just said you can never win a short-term trade for an elite player. But if the player is not elite, but you can find someone who perceives him as elite, then you should be able to win that trade. Yes, I think that's true. Wasn't there, God, one of the teams that, like, he was rumored to be traded to over the, the summer. Now I can't remember which one it was or what the offer was. But there was

something where it's like, well, no, we would trade you Dillon Larkin for X, Y, and Z. And the, and the return was like three all stars, you know, in a future Hall of Fame or whatever, where it's like, I guess you're really, like, I read that at the time of like, oh, they're not trying to, like, trade this guy really. Like, if, if they're doing the, you have to blow me away offer for a guy that we're all kind of saying is like, yeah, it's pretty good. But he's not an elite difference maker at the top of a lineup. Like, they were saying, we are asking for an elite difference maker at the top of the lineup style return, you know?

And it's like, well, if that's your mindset on like what his value is, I don't know how many teams are going to be willing to meet that, you know? And by the way, just to tie it all together, I don't know if you saw last night, there was a preseason game involving two of the teams we're talking about here. Columbus and Detroit. Did you see the final score of that game? I did not. Won nothing in a shootout.

Ooh, that must have been exciting. Oh. One of those great defensive battles I'm always hearing so much about. And I mean, well, here's the thing. What that actually says to me, knowing those two teams, is there was nobody on either roster that was trying to score. They're just not capable of it. Forget it. Goodbye.

But yeah, that's the thing with Detroit. right now is they're just kind of in a holding pattern because I'm going to say it, they're in denial about what the state of the team is. Too many good players. Is that true? Too many.

And here's the thing too, right? Is like, this might just be Horcoff saying, oh yeah, it's crazy how many good players we have because he doesn't want to he doesn't want to be out of the running for this front office job. maybe he doesn't actually believe that.

But all we can do is take him at his word. And his word is, I actually think this team is good. Which brings us to, they still haven't signed Simon Edvinson, despite, you know, him being at camp. He wants to sign there. They haven't done it yet. I don't know why. Like, why nickel and dime this kid?

I don't know. I mean, a week or two ago, could have said, well, there's no GM. There's no one to make the final call. But correct. Now there is. So, and it's not like, it's not like this dropped out of the sky on Sean Harkin. It's not like he didn't have all summer to think of it. So, do you want to know how many teams have more cap space than the Detroit Red Wings right now? Sure. Zero. Wow. $19.6 million in cap space. They could get this kid signed to all. All. All, you. All, Almost a kale-McCarr-level deal and to have it make sense, like, financially for them.

And they're like, we're not going to do that. What's the hold up here? This isn't, I guess what I would be doing if I were him, Sean Horkoff, that is, not Edvinson. I would be trying to project authority here. And that's not to say you just give the kid a blank check and sign him to whatever number he wants. but don't you just say what's it going to take to make this happen and like keep in mind

more at Sider makes less than $9 million would be my kind of pitch to him you want 13 you want 12 great that sounds awesome to me but let's be serious you know you're still only Simon Edvinson you're not you're not fucking Quinn well I mean if he gets 13

would that not make him the second highest paid defenseman in fact it would make him the highest paid defenseman because McCar's deal doesn't kick in. Macar's doesn't kick in. So he's now the highest, he passes Bowen Byram as the highest paid player.

And I think the Byram deal doesn't kick in until next year. He might be right, yeah. So. So, but only in furtherance of the point, honestly, is like, we can make you the highest paid defenseman in the league right now. I think it's 11 and a half because

Dowdy makes 11, if I'm not mistaken. 11 and a half is Carlson. Is Carlson? Okay, sure. Right. That just got signed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, no, oh, you meant Eric Carlson, not John Carlson.

Yes, of course. Right. So, like, you go, we'll give you Eric fucking Carlson money and you're only Simon Edmondson. How's that sound? And you can't get that deal done? Like, again, you have more cap space than anybody. You sign him to an Eric Carlson contract and you have $8 million in change still on the cap. to do whatever you want with as the season progresses.

And the answer is probably like trade for a Justin Falk type. Wow. And you're just like not doing it? I just don't get it. I don't get what they're doing over there. It's that simple. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a mess.

This is the theme of today's show. It's a mess. So I guess good luck to him with the Dylan Lark and trade. Like, okay, we'll wrap it up with this. Give me a percentage on basically all these guys playing for their teams by the start of the season. Okay.

Fantilli, Hellebuck, Lark, and. I would say fantilly, 30%. I see that one. I think it's more likely than not to drag into the season at least a little bit. Maybe closer to 40%. Halibuck, zero percent. There's no way he's back and, I mean, there's a small chance he's back and plays for the Jets this year, but not imminently. Marken, I mean, I think he's still on the team opening night the way things are going.

Does he ever put on the uniform again? At this point, it feels 50-50 to me. Hmm Yeah, I think You know, I guess I didn't A factor in Larkin's injury To that question But yeah, I think that's a good

A good way of thinking about it It's like they might just be like Oh, whatever is wrong with him I think they just said it's upper body Whatever's wrong with him It's actually going to hold him out Until the day he gets traded If you can believe it

Yeah And I'm gonna give a little little tip to Sean Horkoff. You know that thing on opening night where you're introducing everyone and you always have the injured players come out and wave to the crowd? Don't do that. Skip that part this year.

Here's the thing, right? Like, he's, this is the other funny thing about the Lark Impressor is he's like, fans were coming up to me and they were saying they actually liked me and they thought I was nice during the summer. And I didn't want to stick around too long because I didn't want to, you know, get into the whole thing. But they were actually very supportive of me and they think I'm the coolest guy in the world.

And they shook my hand and gave me $20. That's wild. Big, big burly men were coming up to them with tears in their eyes. Tears in their eyes. That's right. We love you, Mr. Larka. You should still be the captain. I thought that was an unbelievable part of that press conference.

And, hey, like, let's put out the Dragnet. Any of those Red Wings fans who approach Dylan Larkin at the grocery store or whatever over the summer and we're like, you're still the goat to me, my friend, you know, let's hear from you. Just like, let's let's make it, make it known who you are. Not like, we're not going to docks you, but I just want to make sure that you're real, you know. Not that we're doubting you are. We're just saying it. Be nice. Well, if he was, if he's telling the truth, he has nothing to hide.

Will. Marchenko. 90% doesn't sound like there's anything happening there. You think is that, huh, okay. You think there's a, I mean, we got a week. I go a little lower than that, yeah. I go a little lower than that, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, I think the difference between 70, 80, 90 is probably not.

I was going to say 66 and 2 thirds. That feels That would have been my That would have been We will see We'll see And hey If he's on the opening night

Roster we're both still right You know Works out great Who Oh Edvinson You think they get him signed But before the start of the season Um

Yes I think they do I think the new guy Does not want to let this drag on. Again, it could be a fentilly type situation where all the reasons we just gave

why Detroit should be able to easily get this done are being used against them on some outrageous number. So, I mean, I'm not, I'll say 80%, because the 20% is, is the odds that the player is, I wouldn't say being unreasonable, but the player is,

The player is the problem, not that the team is, yeah. Holding the line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think that would be fair just given the, again, I think I've referenced it a few times this summer now, but like there were quotes in the Swedish press from his agent just kind of being like, not really sure who we're supposed to be talking to over there. They haven't reached out since they fired Eisenman or what, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but it was something along those lines. And it's like, yeah, that's not a sign that things are going well in that front office. Let's put it that way. So, yeah, there you go.

That, I think, is the full wrap up on Detroit. It's going great. They just, they just, oh, it says you're lost in a scoreless shootout to Columbus for there. Okay, well, never mind. Last week was the deadline for getting eight-year deals done in the NHL. and there were three that got in under the wire on max terms. Ryan Leonard and Drake Batherson, both at 10 and a half million and Noah Ousland at 6.6. Any reactions to those deals?

Not really other than mildly surprised that we saw as many eight-year deals as we did. It was a few weeks ago now that one of the listeners asked how many more we thought we'd see and we both figured it would be low. But also surprised at the dollar values, which kind of balances out, right? Like if it's more term than you think, then it should be more dollars because that player is giving up something. So I didn't hate any of the deals. Yep, yep, yep. But again, I'm still doing the sticker shock thing, man. I know I say it every week.

Yeah. Getting slightly better each time. but, uh, I was going to say, I'm a little surprised at how I just go, oh, like, I looked, I looked at that Ryan Leonard contract. And I believe someone said Ryan Leonard's deal is the biggest for a player with his, yeah, that many games played ever. Myrtle had a chart of biggest deals for players with under a hundred games played. And it's just, it's all guys from the last year or two, as you'd expect.

But it's, that's, that's real big money for. a guy who seems to be a universally pretty well-liked prospect, but, you know. Yeah, he only had 20 goals last year, though. It's not like he came in as a rookie and scored 35, and that's why they gave it. But, like you say, like they just kind of see the goal-scoring prowess he's shown at every level, basically. And, like, 20 is not like a great number, but it's a great number. but it's a great number for like a 21 year old rookie or whatever he is, right? So like it's all kind of varying degrees of like, do you like what you see and do you project it forward and the growth that is inherent to prospects and all that kind of stuff?

Like, yeah, that it makes sense to me even though, you know, I get why it feels high to people. But I saw people saying about like Drake Batherson, well, that's kind of a high number. And it's like it's all UFA years. they're buying basically. Like, that's, and that's a guy who, what do you have, 35 goals? He's a guy who can score. Something like that. Which not a lot of centers can do.

And it's, you know, it's also Ottawa. It's, you're not, you're not paying the Columbus tax, but you're paying a little bit of, uh, or maybe a nicer way to put that is you want to reward the guys who are willing to commit to you because not everyone is. Sure. Yeah, especially in the, in the Brady Kachuk era for sure. And then Noah Osslyn, it's like, yeah, okay, that's a good player. And 6.6 is like really not a lot of money anymore for what he brings to the table.

So that's just like totally, I don't know how you could have sticker shock at that deal for sure. But, you know, that's it. Like nice for Buffalo to get the deal done. The ink dried and all that kind of stuff. Oh, there's one guy I forgot, Sean. Justin Sordiff, also in Washington, goes eight years, 6.35 million per coming off a 15-goal, 35-point rookie season with the caps. He's a really interesting guy. Do you know the story on this?

No. On his path to the NHL? No, I do not. I believe like a kind of a late pick in 2020. He's 24 years old currently, right? So this is an older guy for a rookie. And he was in Florida's system. He was a, it says your third round pick of Florida in 2020.

And because of Florida is so good, he just couldn't crack their lineup. And so Florida did him the solid of trading him to Washington. He gets to Washington. 53% of the expected goals, 63% of the goals for really, good defensive impacts playing nothing but the like hardest minutes the cap could throw the caps could throw at him and they're like

you know how's 40 million dollars sound basically 50 million I think as a guy in his mid-20s just made the NHL he goes yeah this is not one of those like unbelievable I'm not even saying this couldn't be a very smart deal for the caps but this is not one of those situations where I'm going to yell

at the player for taking a max length Oh, no. Dude. Hell yeah. Get that. Get that cash. He went from, he went from,

you know, riding the bus in the HL two seasons ago to now they're like, here's $50 million. Like this kid couldn't have dreamed of that.

But again, like, not a high scoring player, but if you look at the defensive impacts and what he, what the cabs did when he was on the ice, they just like push the puck in the other direction constantly like, against,

again, Top talent on the other teams. Like difference-making players. And this kid who had never been in the NHL before was like, I'm going to fucking devour those minutes. I think that's fucking sick. I think that's so cool. So that kicks in after this coming, like the season that starts next year.

What does he make this year? Probably. Like 825. Yeah, there you go. That's nice. That's really good for him. They said, we're going to like 8x your salary.

How does that sound? He said, that sounds great. I'd probably take that offer if it came my way. Yeah. Good player, really fun player, good story, all that kind of stuff. So shout out to him. But there were a couple other notable deals that got signed that day just because of, I think, bonus structure. Number one is Cutter-Goti, a, six years, 13.5 million bucks, most of that money in bonuses.

Mm-hmm. Is that a good number for him? I think it's a reasonable number at the end of the day. It obviously feels like significantly more than Anaheim thought they were going to pay. But you roll the dice, you take your chances, and their strategy did not work out great for them. I think it's fine. This is a guy that scored 40 goals. There's not a lot of players period that can do that, let alone guys his age where the ceiling feels high.

And again, just a guy who, you know, he also, he went to the same college as Ryan Leonard and a guy I saw a lot at BC as a consequence. And just a guy who can teleport the puck into the net with his shot, right? Like, he's a pure shooter in a way that is very difficult for teams to find, replicate whatever you want to say. And so, like, it's probably a little more than Anaheim was willing to pay, like you, like you said. but once that offer she got signed for Leo Carlson, this was always going to be around what he cost. Just, again, because the goal scoring is projectable in a way that it's not with other players, let's say.

So I think it's totally fine. This is a player I like a lot. And it feels like three years from now, we're going to be looking at $13.5 million and going, yeah, that's about what just like a second. line scoring winger costs, you know? And I think, I think Gautier is probably a little better than that. So there you go.

And then Luke Evangelista with his new team, the New Jersey Devils, five years, seven and a quarter. I mean, that feels very reasonable, given what they gave up to get them. They obviously like the player a lot. So, yeah, I mean, you're going to, you've already invested. significant draft capital in the guy. So investing financially as well is... Well, so the only thing is, I think you could argue, shiny new toy, right?

Well, that's what I was worried about, but I'm not sure that it felt that way to me. Yeah, I mean, look, the guy scored 12 goals last season. You know, it's not... They're not, and they're not getting him for his production necessarily. I think he had 56 points up from a career high of 39. I think if he's around 40 and he has the kind of defensive impacts that he showed last year, they're happy to pay him 7 and a quarter. The thing I wonder about is this.

This is Chris McFarland, who I think everybody is on the same page. This is a very good GM. He kind of sees through the Matrix a little bit. making a deal with Sunny Mehta, who obviously a brand new hire, but has the reputation of he sees through the Matrix a little bit and that kind of thing. And so it's interesting to me from the point of view of which guy got it wronger. I think probably both guys like what they have, but, or what he brings to the table, rather, evangelista. But I wonder which guy at the end of the day is going to go, I was right to do this.

know what I mean? And the answer could be both, just because the, you know, the predators might go, yeah, we're actually rebuilding now. But it's, you know, even if you're not to have decent draft capital sitting there, not bad. Yep. I'll take it. I mean, they're not going to be high picks, but it's always good to have some ammo. Absolutely. So yeah, like, that's the only thing I wonder is, now that we see the full picture of what like the devils are paying for him is in addition to the draft capital the uh the big time money like almost 40 million dollars you go okay well now now i guess we know um and one other contract i wanted to shout out tim washi over there in anaheim you might have seen this signed for i believe it was four years and two and a quarter

this is a guy who was like a five-year NCAA player, never a particularly big score apart from his last season in college hockey. And for him to go from that to, you know, like a really good player at Western Michigan, but not a guy, a lot of people would have said there's a future NHL player who's going to make like almost $10 million on his second deal.

Like, that's crazy, good for him. That's awesome. You know, um, 25 year old kid, and he's locked in it at, uh, at two and a quarter for the next four years. That's awesome. I was a big fan of his. So, uh, and, and only a part-time NHL player last year. He only played 39 games in the NHL. And yet they were like, and they were like, here, here's almost 10 million bucks.

Like, that's unbelievable. A million bucks is a year is part-time player money these days. For sure, but like just for him to get that kind of contract, I think is awesome. So yeah, that's it. Why don't you hit him with the plugs and we'll get out of here. Can find me at the athletic. We're gearing everything up for preseason, including tomorrow we are launching the prediction contest. Whoa.

This is the annual contest. You will have five or six days, whatever it is, to, think of your entry, work on it. You can get started today, and that should be fun. And then, you know, the rest of the stuff, the oddly specific predictions and the four divisions and all of that cool stuff, I think it's cool. We'll come in the days following. Great. And for me, head over to the Perfect Takes newsletter, perfecttakes.bhive.com.

All kinds of stuff going on over there, especially as Sean says, as we ramp up. to the start of both the NHL and college hockey seasons I've been working on, preview stuff for the last little while here, and that'll all start getting published next week, including stuff like the power feelings and all that. So, yeah, check that out, and then check out my stuff at the hockey news. Not hard to find them. They're almost once a day, thereabouts.

So, yeah, lots of writing going on, and then head over to patreon.com slash puck soup, where you can find all. sorts of great bonus episodes and things of that nature, including a stick to soup that me and SG and Greg did yesterday that went almost two and a half hours, I think, of just us shooting the shit, having a good time. So, uh, and then we also have the, the Puck Soup listener choice bonus episode coming out, uh, in the next week or so as well. So, uh, that's all there. Patreon.com slash Puck Soup. Thank you for listening. Thank you for your support across all the

many platforms in the Puck Soup family. And we'll talk to you next week for like a more proper Puck Soup season preview episode. Have a good one. Bye-bye.