Puck Soup - More like 'Offer Sh*t'

Episode Date: July 3, 2019

Greg, Ryan and Sean close out NHL free agency with analysis of all the major signings, the Sebastian Aho offer sheet failure and its impact, the Leafs and Avs trade, Darry Sutter joining the Ducks, who the best Spider-Man was, public access TV shows and Paul Fenton's weird-ass lizard comments. Sponsored by The Athletic. Note: This is the last Puck Soup on your podcast feed this summer. July and August episodes are on the Patreon.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wischinski of ESPN. You may know me from such shows as SportsCenter, the real one, not the one with RE at the end. I'm Ryan Lambert. I think I was on like a public access TV show when I was a kid.

I'm Sean Mackey from The Athletic. I do not appreciate your jokes about Canadian spelling. A year in Puck Soup. What do you mean when you were a kid? Were you on like a quiz show or something when you were young? No, it was like there was a telethon in our town every year for the local, like the high school scholarship fund. And they would have kids come, you know, be in a chorus or do karate. And I think I feel like I was in the chorus for my elementary school or something, where, you know, they were just like, oh, it's Mrs. Callahan's fourth grade class, and here they are to sing God bless America or whatever the hell.

So just to confirm, not the karate kid, but in the chorus. The karate kid was always so good because it would just be like one or two kids who were like actually good at karate. And then three or four other kids who were very bad at karate in the background, like just doing running, running. jump kicks at nothing. So it looked like they were staying busy while the kids in front of them broke bored with their heads or whatever. When you said it was for a telethon,

I thought briefly that, I mean, I've met you, I imagine you were kind of a thin kid. I thought maybe they had you on as an actor to portray a sickly child for the telethon. Like here's Ryan. He has rickets, you know, kind of thing, no?

Yeah, nope. There was also always like one guy who was a very bad, bad singer who insisted on singing some like Danny boy type song to kick off every year. Oh, was it Renee Rancourt? No, he was, I'm going to say significantly worse than Renee Rancourt. I can't remember the guy's name, but boy, oh boy, that telethon, what a treat. I have an extensive history on public access television. I hosted a public access high school sports show and I worked at the newspaper.

and then in high school I co-hosted with a bunch of my friends a sketch comedy show in Maddawan, New Jersey. Wow. I know. And as a young lad, I used to be a dedicated caller to the call-in show, the creatively named Sports Call on Channel 6 on public access in Madawan. And there would be a guy named Lou Brogno who would host it, and he would be like your grade Z WFAN host.

And every week I'd call in with my prepubescent balls haven't dropped yet voice to be like, do you think the match should trade for Wade Boggs? Did they think that? No, he never thought that. He's like, well, you see, trades involve one team whining to do business with the other. Deos Burks, you know, and on and on and on. So it's just a mess of history. But do they even have public access in Canada, shown?

I don't know how it works. We absolutely do. on the CBC. Yeah. It's all public access. It's over. Remember that show, Fricking Little Mosque on the Prairie?

That had pretty similar production values to Greg's local TV sketch comedy show. I just want to say if anybody out there has any footage of either Greg's Improv Sketch Show or Little Lambert singing God Bless America on TV,

I will pay roughly a thousand $1,000 for that footage. Damn, I'm going to dig that up. By the way, that better be American money. I'm not... I'll triple that. I'll triple that to find the one of Lambert, hopefully wearing a Stars and Stripes Tank Top,

singing God Bless America on Public Access Television. Yeah, like, when it was definitely when I was in fourth grade if we did it, because fourth grade was the year when you had to do, like, the whole Memorial Day assembly. Right. And, you know, I had to learn, like, the battle hymn of the Republic and all that stuff. Yeah, I wanted to be, like, the end of Animal House where, like, they slap on the, the, the, the, the labels on everybody at the end. I just want to, I want to get that tape so I could slap on Ryan Lambert, colon, anarchist.

I'm a communist. Please don't. Oh, sorry. Communist. I don't slur me like that. I did not, I did not mean to, please don't send me to a gulag. Speaking of Goulogs, Sebastian Ahho apparently did not want to leave Raleigh, according to Tom Dundon. Tom Dundon says that Mark Beresvand, Montreal's general manager, had been hoodwinked by a rogue agent who apparently convinced him that Sebastian wanted to leave.

And then, I don't know, like forged his signature, I guess, or something, because he did sign an offer sheet, which would indicate that he maybe wanted to leave. Well, no, okay, let's stop right there. That's definitely the party line in Montreal of like, oh, we wanted to leave very clear. And it's like, no, it was just he was fine with staying and he was fine with going. Right. But that doesn't mean he wanted to, like, it's not like he demanded a train. The hurricanes are saying that he had no desire to leave Raleigh and that this was the agent playing contract games and using Montreal to do that. And I don't think that's true.

No. personal level. That's clearly, I mean, if he signed an offer sheet, I'm sure he was aware that it would probably be matched, and I'm sure he was aware or hoping that there was at least a chance that it wouldn't be matched. So the answer is, I mean, this is kind of silly. We've got both teams and their GMs and their fans acting like they were the only place that this kid ever wanted to be. Clearly, he was okay with both options. And, you know, that where, which one he thought was more likely, I don't know. I don't know how anyone involved in this process thought that this was going to end with this offer sheet not being matched.

Like, I really can't get my head around how Montreal thought that this was, gave them any chance at all of acquiring this player through the offer sheet not being matched. It was that the pay was too low. The compensation as far as draft picks was laughably low. Unless Carolina, it was completely incapable of running a functional business and was so short on cash, they had to let their franchise player go over a few million bucks. This one was dead on arrival. I don't understand what Montreal was. doing if the point of this was to get the player.

If the point of this was to be a PR exercise instead and to show everyone that Mark Bergevin was really trying and to make it clear that there was a good player out there somewhere who actually did want to come to Montreal and to distract from the fact that for the second year in a row, Montreal went hard at the number one UFA free agent center on the market and didn't get them and had somebody. who grew, you know, in this case, Matthew Shea and a guy who grew up in a Habs fan household and has spent the last two years telling everyone how much he wants to play close to home. And when he gets a chance to do that, Montreal, he goes, you know what, I'm going to

go Nashville instead. If the idea was to get us to not talk about that and to talk about Montreal almost getting a player, then I guess mission accomplished, because that's worked. But you weren't getting the player, ever. That's definitely been what the fans are talking about on Twitter. Twitter is, well, look, you know, Carolina, you know, they had to match, but obviously, you know, this is, this is a good move by Bergevin. And it's like, it's a fucking waste of time. What are you taught? Like, eight and a half, under eight and a half million dollars, like, that's just kind of the midpoint of what both sides were talking about in that negotiation from everything I've read. The hurricanes were like, we'll give you seven and a half. He was like, how about nine and a half? And Montreal was like, how about eight and a half? and then Carolina was like, or everybody else was like, yeah, that's great. We love that actually. See, I disagree, man.

Like, it bothers me that we spend, you know, seven years or whatever it's been, six years, hoping and praying that there's an offer sheet. Why isn't there an offer sheet? Why don't we have offer sheet? Somebody give me an offer sheet. And then we get one. And then we're all like, well, that was a shit offer sheet. It was a shit offer.

But no, but it's not. Because all they're trying to do, all they're trying to do is throw their fucking hook in the water and see if something bites. And that's part of the mechanism too. Like the idea that an offer sheet has to be meticulously constructed in order to win the player versus sometimes you just throw one out there. A guy signs it and maybe you get them. Like they're both offer sheets. I don't think there's anything wrong with what Montreal did. I agree that the offer should have been higher, but I'm not going to call Brejavan an asshole, you know, because he took a shot to see if A,

A $21 million signing bonus in the first year would scare off fucking Dundon because he's crazy. And B, the five-year term makes it unpalatable for Carolina because it walks him up to UFA status. Like, I don't, people have like fucking slam this thing because they didn't go high enough and they didn't do the compensation enough, which by the way, doesn't guarantee they were going to get him anyway. I think this is a reasonable application of the offer sheet, which is to throw your hook in the water, see if you get them. if you don't, hey, okay, you shot your shot. And we should applaud somebody shooting their fucking shot after six years. We should applaud somebody for shooting their shot if there is any reasonable chance that the shot is going to land. Yeah, right.

This is me, like, this is you going like, well, hey, listen, I asked out that supermodel. She didn't even look at me. But, hey, you know, I shot my shot. It's like, no, like, what was the point? You just waste your own time and everybody else. But what if Kathy Ireland turns around and she's like, oh, my God, was that a Star Wars reference? Like, there's always a chance that something occurs that you don't think occurs and you get the thing you're going for. I don't understand why this is so bad.

It's like, I think it was Matt Larkin from the hockey news had a good tweet where he said like this, you know, we waited seven years for an offer sheet and instead we got a lesson on how not to do an offer sheet. So maybe this is what. sets us up for a better one somewhere. Let me contextualize it for you in a Star Wars universe. Oh, God. Oh, Lord. Waiting 25 years. There it is.

And then you get the Phantom Menace. That's what it is. Like, it's, you wanted this thing to happen, and then it came, and now you're doing the thing of trying to talk yourself into. I don't know. I mean, when the freaking robot showed up and there was the big shield battle, that was fun. Like, you're just, you're just trying to make yourself feel like this thing you

wanted was good when it objectively sucked shit. Or I appreciate practical effects, narrative structure, and an attempt at an original idea, which is always my defense of the Phantom Menace. So you're saying that as a Phantom Menace fan, I can better appreciate this. You two Star Wars nerds sidetrack this conversation about hockey on the hockey podcast, especially when we're making fun of the Canadians, which is really... Listen, I, again, and that's why we've talked about it before, why GGMs don't offer sheets is because now they're summarily mocked for not getting it done.

Well, no, GMs should do offer sheets that have a chance of succeed. The only way this had any chance of succeeding was if Montreal either had or thought they had some sort of inside information about Carolina's finances being a lot worse than any of us. Or the player just didn't want to stay. But even if he doesn't want to stay, then... I mean, that's still the thing about matching it, but like... Then you've got to tell the... player, go to your GM and demand a trade and say that you are not going to be, you're not signing,

you're not going to play. And that's how you get them. To do it this way. And even if they didn't have, and first of all, the idea that Carolina doesn't have the money, we all know that this is a non-traditional market. We know that the crowds have not been great for a long time. Now, maybe that changes because of the playoff run. Who knows? But first of all, they just spent $4.5 million to buy a draft pick like two weeks ago. So that's not the sort of thing. a team does when they are, you know, completely in the red and have, have no access to cash. But the other thing is, you are never going to win by going up to a billionaire and saying, I bet I have more money than you.

You're never going to back him down that way. Because even if you're right, even if he doesn't have the money, he's going to throw the check down anyways and then figure it out later. Like, you're never going to publicly. go up to a billionaire and be like, we got more money than you and get away. Like, that's not going to work. Even if, even if Tom, like, look, the guy's clearly rich. Just because you're rich doesn't mean you have access to necessarily millions of dollars in cash instantly.

Maybe it's difficult for him to get it. He'll figure out a way. They're like this, this had no hope of working for Montreal, which is why I'm not saying it's a bad thing. but it was a waste of time and I don't understand why they did it unless it was about just sending a message to the fan base and and sure okay and having said that that's okay yeah it's okay to do that having said that the reaction coming out of Carolina like this is some sort of win for them is very strange to me like the the idea like that this this reaction of it's basically the sports version of I'm not mad, I'm actually laughing, you know,

what a game of 3D chess we just pulled off by having our star player negotiate a deal with somebody else and then we jump. Like, your best player just signed a contract with another team. That's not good. That's bad. And one of two things must have been happening here, either, and he didn't just sign an offer sheet. He signed an offer sheet on day one.

So that means either you were so far apart, you were lowballing this guy so badly that he went and signed an offer sheet that I think is still below market, but was far better than what you were offering, or it wasn't far better than what you were offering, in which case he signed it because he wants out. Like neither one of those is a good thing. And this kind of like spiking the football that's going on in Carolina right now is very weird to me, because I don't. don't think they come out of this looking good either. And, and again, like, I think you go back to the term, right? Like, it's clear that he wanted five years. Yeah. Yeah, he wanted, he wanted, he wanted, he wanted, he wanted, he wanted, he wanted,

to be, hell, doesn't hurt either. Yeah, so he wanted the ability to walk away, which is why their, their argument is that it's not Aho, it's the agent, and that's the, the line they're going to sell. That's what you have to say. Yeah. But Braden Point didn't sign an offer sheet, and he's going to get pennies on the fucking dollar because the lightning are capped out. But he didn't sign an offer sheet because he doesn't want to leave Tampa.

That's why he didn't sign an offer sheet yet. And I don't, I mean, if I'm him, he's got the same agent. So I'm sitting there going like, really? Is this, this is what we're doing? Is this how? Because he doesn't want, it doesn't leave. And again, that's something you always come back to. Like, like, I saw, I saw Lambert.

I think you might have mentioned Charlie McAvoy in your piece today. Yeah, I actually fucked that up because he's not, he's not offer sheet eligible. Offer sheet. Yeah, but even if he was, like. You know, that's the kind of player you'd go after, but they have to sign. That's the other part of this equation that we all seem to forget is they have to sign the offer sheet. And Aho did. They found one that did.

And that's part of the problem with trying to get these things every year is that you have to find guys that are willing to do it. And it's a fair question to ask in Carolina, why did this happen on, again, on day one. I think we can all say, if Brain Point is still not signed in August or September or into the season, I mean, at some point, yes. At some point, you go, okay, I want to play. I've got to do something to either find a new team or force my current team's hand. I got to do something. You're talking a few hours in it. And according to one report that I read, the hurricane said that they've been talking to house camp

and that basically contact had been cut off on Friday. So this is even well before day one. They had apparently made up their mind to do this. it's totally fair to ask the question why did it come to this and it's totally fair to not accept the answer of well he just really wanted to be in Carolina and that's why he signed in Montreal

and please don't think too much about what we just said and everything's happy and great and let's go on and blame the agent that goes back to what I said before like you throw the offer sheet out there in the hopes that there is some variable in play that allows you to get the player it's not the best offer it's not one that's going to blow you away.

They just tried to find the reasonable price that they were willing to pay and see if it works. I'm fine with that. I wish we had that every summer from Teams. I wish we had good offer sheets every summer. And maybe we will because now the door has been cracked. And yeah, Mark Bergevent's facing some criticism, but the world isn't ending. I'm sure his phone line hasn't gone completely dead. There's no offer sheet apocalypse.

the first one's been signed, the dam's broken. Maybe somebody, let's, maybe we get some more going and maybe some GMs learn from the mistakes here, that you can't lowball it and try to protect your picks and everything. You just make it too easy for the other team. And maybe that's where we go. But, I mean, this one would just, it had no hope. So I don't, I don't get, you know, at the end of the day, I guess no harm, no foul. I mean, it ties up your cap space until Carolina matches it, but they've got a lot of cap space.

And it doesn't really limit what Montreal can do. Where we should go is we should go to guys that are like two steps down from Sebastian Aho. Like the idea that we're giving out all this money to UFAs when you could easily offer sheet a third line RFA looking for an increased role, he's probably someone that'll sign. You find a team that's in cap trouble. You pay this guy a few million dollars more than they want to pay them. The targeted offer sheet for that guy, that's the one that I can't fucking understand why we don't get. Because you do that a thousand times before you go spend money in a UFA market. Caputin and Yonsen on the Leafs were perfect examples of that. And I think that's why the Leafs scrambled so hard to get them signed. Like that was, if you offer sheet Mitch

Marner, the Leafs will figure out a way to match that. But if someone had gone and given Kispera Kappanin in $4 million on a one-year deal, that would have been very, very hard to match. So yeah, you're right. There's probably some softer targets out there if the Braden points of the world aren't willing to sign one. But you're probably not getting Marner now, because as you know, Sean, because Aho got that offer, that's now what Marner should get. Well, no, because Marner, you forgot Marner gets to pick his O'Rour. comparables and his comparables are Austin Matthews, Connor McDavid, Merrill Lemieux when he owned the franchise. Bill Gates. Bill Gates and Oprah Winfrey. So, and, you know, if you hate a local kid, then go ahead

and say he shouldn't make that money, but yeah. I don't know, man. It was fun to get one, though. It was really fun to see the immediate euphoria of offer sheet. And then within the first five minutes, everybody being like, that's going to get matched. Yeah. Yeah. Carolina would have matched at $3 million, maybe not three. Definitely $2 million above that. 10 and a half, they would have been like, yeah, that's fine, whatever.

But, I mean, eight and a half, like, I don't get it. Yeah. Yeah, or I mean, the other way to do it, Ryan, it might even have been your piece of mention that, would be, and I know part of the logic here was to do five years to walk them right up to free agency, but if you do it at six or seven years, you can keep the cap hit low, but it still raises the compensation level, which I know sounds weird. Like, why would you want to give more picks?

But you have to make it tempting, you know, or work out a trade. I mean, that would be the other thing to strong arm it in to do what Brian Burke tried to do to the Bruins with Phil Kessel, where you say, I've got the offer sheet in hand. We're going to sign it. But would you like to work out a trade instead of us putting you in this position? And, you know, I mean, in theory, they could still do that. over the next few days, but it doesn't sound like, it doesn't sound like that's an option anymore.

But if it's about getting the player, a trade, telling him to demand a trade, anything like that, those would have been more effective than signing an offer sheet that was just a no-brainer for any team to match. Free Agent Day, as of 5 p.m. on July 1st, there was $556,8355,835,000 in free agent money flying around the NHL. Yeah, and so what did everybody besides Chris Tanna get?

Right. And I was going to say that's at least $5 million off of what Kevin Durant got. And so it was a fruitful and fun free agent frenzy, although we should talk about the fact that Canadian television is going to have to really revamp how it approaches this because half the signings are reported the night before. I do not recall this happening in previous years where so much fucking business was settled on the eve of free agency. my thoughts and prayers to all of the 50 people that are on TSN on July 1st because you're going to have to come in on June 30th now.

Well, that's how it's going to have to be going forward. It's because the interview period was so long this year. Like it was seven days. And like Pierre LeBrunna's been kind of banging this drum for a while saying that it's, we don't need it to be this long. We don't need to wait until July 1, which the reason it's on July 1 is because that's the new year. As far as the league, that's when all the contracts expire. So it's not as simple as just moving up free agency to June 29th because these guys still have contracts then.

But I wonder if we, A, shorten the interview period, which apparently won't be an issue next year because in the draft in Montreal, it's later. It's like June 27th or something. So the interview period will only be a few days. But I could see us at some point either shifting it in the CBA or just going to kind of like it is in the NBA where you just say that, okay, you know what? on June 29th, we can start agreeing to deals. And even if they won't become official until July 1, you'll get those headlines of, you know, that Sergey Bobrovsky has agreed to terms with the Panthers and the deal will be made official in a few days because this was, yeah, you're right.

It hasn't been like this in the past. And it feels a little bit like the trade deadline. Remember a few years ago? Like the trade deadline, all of a sudden, the deals all started happening in the days before. And it's kind of here, which is very strange, given that the NHLs. rules very clearly state that you're not allowed to negotiate actual contracts during the interview period. It's so strange that all of these contracts accidentally got negotiated during that time. I just want to see more action on July 1st because the more action there is, the less time

TSN has to give Steve Simmons to talk about Phil Kessel. So that's kind of my own personal selfish request. There's more signings to talk about. So when you have to spend too much time on the Steve Simmons, Bruce Arthur panel, you know that things have gone awry. It's like when I used to get on the air on Sportsnet. If I'm on the air on Sportsnet, you know that there's fuck all happening in free agency at that point. Yeah. And look, where else are we going to see these guys fake golf, though?

That's what you're going to think about. Right. This is the first year I actually didn't watch any of that shit. And wow, what a difference? It was so nice. it's like leaving Twitter when you're on vacation. All right, let's start off with some of these signings. The Panarin to the Rangers thing.

Very interesting because the Florida, the Panthers Panthers Panera in situation had been sort of ingrained. I mean, everyone you talked to within the industry was like, oh, yeah, it's done deal. And then Bob were both going there. And then he didn't go there. And then on top of that, you had it down to the Islanders and the Rangers, and he takes less money to play with the New York

Rangers. Jim Dolan will have his revenge on Brooklyn, and the Rangers end up with Artembe Panarin. Yeah, good. I think he made the right call in terms of a team with a brighter future, and also one that has a definite place to play next year. Kind of helps probably. Damn. But, yeah, no, like, the Ranger, you know, in two, three years when it's him and Capo-Caco on the top line, they're going to be in great shape. Yeah, and I think this is the sort of move where it was the right time for a team like the Rangers to take the big swing. Was it too much money maybe?

But Panarin's one of those guys where, you know, he's 27. He's not 29 or 30 with a bad ankle or a bad knee. He should age reasonably well. Year 6 and 7 of this contract might not look super great, but I do think the Rangers are going to get some. value here and it's uh you know this this is kind of clearly signals the end of a stage of this rebuild but it's the right time for that you can't spin your wheels and rebuild forever at some point you got to uh you got to get better and this uh winning the lottery certainly helped them make that choice but i think they made it at the right point right yeah that was my big criticism because everybody was

like all the rangers rebuild is going so so great can you even believe it and i was just like do they have fucking anybody who can put the puck in the back of the net, though? Like that's kind of a big part of rebuilding and between getting Kako and now Artemi Pernar. And it's like, oh, now they have two guys who definitely can at the NHL level. Yeah, and they're going to have a metric ton of cap space

next summer too, which is pretty fun. Like Kreider, Namestikov, all these contracts come off next year. And then the year after that... They're going to trade Crider, by the way. Chattenk and Stahl will finally come off. So, yeah, it's a great move for them, especially because even if you don't believe that they're close to contention, when they do get close to contention, might not be a guy like Artemey Pinar and available.

He is legit an elite offensive talent. And a guy who could drive his own line. So it's a great fucking investment. And I really hate that the Rangers are going to be that good. The Allenders got their dick kicked in the mud, though. I thought that Lou was doing what he did with Kovulchuk. If you remember when he signed Kovulchuk with the Devils? Giving him a contract, he couldn't actually.

No, no, no, no, not that one, not that part. He signed, do you remember when he signed Johann Hedberg that same summer? No. Okay, but here's what he did. Okay, ready, here's what he did, though. He signed Hedberg because Hedberg was, this was also a client of Jake Roseman, who was Coloblchuk's agent. And so it was

era, I will take your client as well. Please remember this solid that I've given you. And then he ends up getting Colvichuk. So the moment I heard that he was negotiating with Varlamov, who had the same agent as Panarin, I'm like, oh my God, history repeats itself. He's going to try to do the same thing. Like, just take on two clients and the same guy. then he whiffed on Panera and then still signed Verlamoff to a four-year contract, which, again, like, we'll get into the Robin Lainer thing now, but like,

the Verlama thing makes sense if you are not worried about his, well, being a scumbag, but also his injury problems. You can throw any number of goalies in that system with Mitch Corrin as the goalie coach, and you're going to do okay for yourself. But if you bring him on as the, bridge to Sorokin, their big blue chip goalie prospect, then I kind of like this on their part, even if I don't like for a lot of them.

Do you like it more than just bringing back Robin Lennar, who's just had a great season for you and seemed happy there? That's... I guess the question is, is do I think for Lomov's a better goalie than Lanner, right? Right. I kind of do. Do you?

Well, I mean, right, so that's the thing, right? is it's a bet. It's a bet that he is as good as Lainer. The problem is Lainer's not as good as we now think Lainer is because he had one good season, right? And I like Chicago's bet on him because it's like, okay, it's one year. It's a decent amount of money, but who cares about the cash?

And maybe he's good again. And if he is, you sign him because Cory Crawford's probably done. And if he's not, you know, you move on and you try it again. And it solidifies that position in a way that it wasn't last year. So if Crawford does... I don't know. I mean, they had Cam Ward last year, Greg. Here's the thing, though.

Like, Robin Leonard, yes, we all agree he's not a 930 goaltender. Nobody is probably in today's. Well, I mean, Islanders fans might push back on that. Every Islander fan is blocked. Well, now they wouldn't. Now they wouldn't. Yeah, exactly. Now they know what he's, yeah.

He's so, but he's a career 918 goal tender. Yeah, he's good. He's slightly better than, slightly better than Semy and Barlamov. He's been above that three of his last four years. So the first two years in Buffalo, he was, he was quite good. 920, 924, 930 last year, 9.08 in last year, last year in Buffalo, but that was kind of a disaster of a season on a lot of levels. Simon Vromov's been below his career average two of the last three years. It's 30 years old.

I don't know. And mixing in the fact that Robin Lennar, we all know his story last year, he made major changes in his life. So typically when you see a goaltender suddenly have a year that's far better than he had the year before, you go, okay, well, that's goaltending's voodoo and things fluke out. And we're not going to worry too much. But he actually did change some things.

So I don't know that I'm. betting on Samin Varlamov over Robin Leonard. And I don't know, who knows how the negotiations went, who knows... Definitely can't. I mean... Yeah, I just, I think that... Yeah, we don't know what the demands were.

Sometimes with this sort of stuff, it looks like a team chose one guy or walked away, and then you find out that somebody tried to use their leverage in a way that wasn't going to work. But I just, yeah, I don't know. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, like I said, you guys, stay, keep the guy who, who just, who was already there and has shown you that, that, that he can play for you and, uh, I don't know. I think what they're saying, I think that what they're saying is that, you know, the team went from a 900, say, percentage to like a 925, uh, as a team. And they're confident that they can get any number of goalies to pair with Tomas Grisch and be as, as, as, as, as, as,

as Lander was last year. I think that's what they're saying. They're saying it's the system they play and the goalie coach that they have and it's not necessarily Robin Lanner or bust. Then if it's the system you play, then don't sign a goaltender for $5 million.

That's right. If it's a system play, then bring in somebody bring in this year's Robin Lanner of the guy that maybe is better than the market's giving him credit for and turn him into a star. Don't pay star.

is money for a guy who's going to be 34. But you're missing the point that he's going to be a mentor to the Russian kid you have coming up. Like, that's part of the equation. Yeah, you could probably sign a pretty good Russian guy for less than $4 million or $5 million over four years. There's only like three Russian goalies. Is Anton Hudobin still in the league? Like, fucking sign him. He's going to be less than that.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I do, what do we think from Chicago's perspective going out when you've already got Corey Crawford, but maybe you don't? I think it's a nice insurance bet, but the problem is that they're really bad defensively, like in a way that the islanders were not, right? So like the idea that the bottom is going to drop out on this guy just because he, I mean, they had the worst expected goals against per 60 in the league last year in all situations. I don't see the addition of like Calvin DeHan and Andrew Shaw fucking turning that around for them. And well, yeah, okay.

Well, like, because that's what some psycho Chicago fan yesterday said to me was like, hey, he's not the only guy they added. They added five other guys and it's like, cool, man. They added Calvin DeHan. They added Oli Mata. They added a lot of people. Yeah. I'm not confident that two guys I've never heard. is going to be the answer.

But sure, man. Yeah, I'd be pretty disappointed if I was Robin Lennar, and I just had the year I had, and I found myself getting a one-year deal. Yep. You know, Chicago, maybe Chicago's a good fit. It's a great town. But to, you know, if I'm a goaltender and I get a big year

knowing how goaltending works, I want to get a few years on my next deal, and I'm questioning why that didn't happen either. You know, I'm questioning why it didn't happen with the Islanders. Yeah, that's my... They went and gave, you know, I got $5 million for one year. They gave five times four to somebody else who I is maybe not as good as me. I've, I'm really kind of wondering what's up with that. That's, that would be my disappointment too. And from everything he said, it was a situation where he's negotiating with them and negotiating with them. He gets like an ultimatum, get us, get back to us in a couple of hours. And he gets back with them. And like, they're like, we've moved on. to another goalie. And I think my disjoint would be like, what the fuck? I was a

fucking Vezina finalist for you. And this is the situation that we're in. I'd be pissed off the founders if I were him, but it's neither here nor there with him. You know what, guys, if you want a one-year deal that you won't be disappointed by? Okay.

The best one ever. Wayne Simmons, no, the Athletic is a direct-to-consumer subscription service serving sports fans in North America. And the model is simple. There are no ads, no pop-ups, no autoplay videos. Instead, readers subscribe for authentic in-depth coverage, written and spoken by journalists who know the league inside it out.

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And it gets you more than the thousand stories published each week, as well as audio content. So subscribe right now using promo code soup, download the athletic app from the app store, and come experience the athletic stories told in a whole new way. By the way, the only hockey writer that should be allowed to tweet a picture of like a beach or a tropical drink to signify that their season is done is Bob McKenzie. I think others have started doing this including Pierre, and it leaves me with an ugi feeling. Like, you know, it's gimmick infringement.

It's a, it's giving infringement. B, like, there are people out there that work very, very hard who don't have the luxury to fuck off for two months in the summer and still get. Yeah, that was my reaction yesterday was a weekly salary. Must be fucking nice, dude. Yeah, right? Right. I mean, it's got, like, you know who should be able to do that? Teachers. Teachers should be able to do that. Right. Not fucking hockey writers. It always views me with a very ugi feeling to see that. But Bob's the exception. And it was utter... But it's because he seems to have a sense of humor about it, changing his name and profile picture to Bobby Margarita. Like... Yeah, right. He gets that it's a joke. I don't know that other people do.

Pour one out for the real heroes, the hockey writers who take pictures from their cabins on July 2nd. and you don't hear for them until 15 were first. To be fair, they only make seven figures. So what are they supposed to do? But McKenzie was amazing because he did the whole thing. He dropped the Bobby Margarita. He changed his avatar to a fucking margarita. And then he had to come back to TSN because the Leafs and the Appalach made that trade.

Oh, poor bastard. That was excellent. We might as well talk about that. The Tyson-Berry deal is something that I like for both of these teams. Sackick was actually really good in the last couple weeks as far as acquisitions go. But, you know, I don't care that Barry's UFA next summer. Like, the reality of the Leafs is that because they're going to have so much money tied up into like three guys, they're going to have to just redo the math every summer.

It's just going to have to be what it is. And you try to build the best. team that you can each season. And in the case of getting Tyson-Berry, they're exponentially better than they were with Jake Gardner, I think. Oh, what? Yeah. Have you watched Tyson-Berry play last couple of years?

Yeah. He doesn't play defense, but he's fucking much better offensively. He's better off-in. I'm not convinced he's a huge upgrade over Jake Gardner. Although he is in the sense that he's right-handed, and that's where the leaves. You know, if you could have waived him at him at, Jaguan on Jake Gardner and switched hands, then he, I think, would have been a better fit.

The pro, like, I am concerned about the fact that it's an expiring deal because I think Tyson Barry, especially if he's as good a fit with this leaf steam as we think he's going to be, could put up some really good numbers and could be looking at a major deal next year. And, you know, that's, that's going to be tough because the, you know, the cap doesn't loosen up all that much. They're probably already in a situation where it's going to be Barry or muslin that they can keep, not both. Maybe not either. And that's a concern.

Because this is, I agree, I think, with part of what you were saying, which is that sometimes we fall in the trap of looking too far ahead. And next season is a season. And there's going to be a Stanley Cup awarded at next season. So if you can load up and have the best team you have next year, then you go ahead and do that, but you do also, especially when you got a young team, like the leaves, this isn't some team where the window's closing and it's, you know, this isn't the sharks where it's like, look, we're going to bring Eric Carlson back and if the deal goes

bad a few years down the line, we'll live with it because we've got a shot right now and we've only got a year or two left to take advantage. This isn't that. This is a team that's still at least a little bit in the long-term mode and I'm just a little bit nervous that down the line we're talking about Tyson Barry wanting $8 million a year, and now that doesn't fit under the cap, and what do you do this time next year to build a blue line around Morgan Riley and whatever else is left? Cody C.C. Oh, God. I don't understand that.

I don't understand why Cody C.C. is going to be apparently part of this opening night roster. Maybe you guys can explain that to me. He's going to be on Morgan Riley's pairing because it's. Yeah. I guess the answer is they don't feel like they can get a better defenseman for whatever, $4.5 million. They definitely can.

They can get a better defenseman for league minimum, but that's going to be what they're thinking is, right? That's the only way what they're doing makes sense with respect to Cody C.C. It's incredible because, again, it's like you have the most religiously analytical front office maybe in the NHL run by Kyle Dubus and then they bring on Cody Cici who is the antithesis

makes sense because it gets you out from under the Zitzenet long term. But then walk away from Cody Cici is what you should do. Trade him to Edmonton, Vancouver

you know, somebody like that. It's literally like if Beethoven said you know I really like and respect the Baja men who did who let the dog

out. Like, I think that's the epitome of great music. Like, it is, it is completely anti-philosophical as far as what Dubas puts out there to have what he sees on his roster. Unless, I mean, obviously the Leaf's got that huge analytics department. That department doesn't publish their work. So maybe they've got a different view on certain guys, but man, it would have to be really different. I don't, when that trade was first announced, my thought was, okay, great, you, if the senators want to ship out Cody's Cici, as part of the deal, go ahead. You do one or two things.

You either let them go to arbitration and you walk away from whatever it is and give yourself an extra $4.5 million in Cap Room. Remembering that they, I mean, they just traded a first round pick for $6 million in cap room. Here's a chance at $4.5 million of free cap room. I don't understand why you wouldn't grab that. I understand that it does get a little tricky. He has a qualifying offer.

He can accept that. If he doesn't accept it, then you go to it. and he declines arbitration. There are scenarios where it could go weird. The other way is you go to him and you say, look, arbitration is going to be one year. What do you think you're going to get? Let's figure out a reasonable number for one year.

Okay, your qualifying offers 4.3. Maybe, okay, you want 4.5? Let's sign a one-year contract right now, $4.5 million, $3 signing bonus. We'll rate you a $3 million check, and now we're going to trade you somewhere because now you're Cody CC,

the defenseman who makes a million and a half with a high cap hit, but a million and a half, absolutely there'll be teams out there that will give up an asset for that. You could probably get a pick. You could probably get something in exchange for Cody Cici at a million and a half bucks in actual cash. And yet, almost immediately we heard all these reports from people like McKenzie, people who are plugged in saying, no, he's in the lineup opening night. I don't understand it. And this idea that, well, put him in the lineup, let them play, and then you can flip them at the, like you can't, you're not flipping him for an asset at the deadline. Nobody's

going to be lining up for that. And if he's playing well, you're going to keep him anyways. I mean, I guess it's maybe we got to start thinking more like the NBA guys think and an expiring deal does have some value just because it's coming off your books. But I don't, you can't tell me that after you give up a first for $6 million in Cap Room, that three quarters of that goes to Cody Cici as the best option you have on that blue line. It's insane. And plus Ben Harper sucks too, and they're keeping him.

At least he, you can put his money in the minors and it doesn't affect your cash. That doesn't bother me because they're loading up on those guys. They're signing all of these like fringe, like kind of a type guys that some of them will make it. Some of them won't. And they'll just stash him in the miners. They don't, one way deals. They don't care.

They've got money to burn. So that doesn't bother me as much. But, hey, solid work by Pierre Doria and Trit. a third for one of the most toxic contracts in the NHL. Good job. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's so far. You guys, I'm sure have seen it, but the, you know, all the Lee fans pointing

out that Eugene Melnick went on the radio and trash talk to Lee's defense and they've since hired their coach. Their, their, uh, their worst defensemen, their most overused defensemen and one of their penalty kill. Yeah. forwards. So, yeah. It's good times.

Good luck with that. I do like, I, I'll just say real quick. I do like Connor Brown. I think that does bring some value to the senators, especially... He's fine, but he's overpaid. Two million. If they play him higher up in the lineup, I mean, if he plays on their second line, which he might, a functional, decent second line winger, even one who doesn't put up huge numbers,

I mean, he's only making a couple million bucks. I think that's fine and has a chance to be more than fine. Entirely possible, we look back at this Barry trade, by the way, in a couple years and say that the avalanche fleeced them. because Cadre is really good and he signed through 2020 good man yeah really cheap I mean you get you get him they're probably going to cast him at a second line

role I obviously like him better as a dominant third line center but if that's where they go with him that's fine too he's a 30 goal guy and they get a dude like him who plays a 200 foot game locked up through 22 and they still have fucking 27 million dollars

in cap space that they can that they have open right now so like they're young and they're great and they're good and Sackick did really smart things to fill out his forward group with guys like Don Skloy and Barracoski and Belmar and bringing back Wilson for one year. Like they're, they're these this, he had a really, really good summer. Really, really good summer. I don't know. I don't agree about Belmar. I think he sucks. But yeah, other than that, obviously they've done great things and you've got to put somebody in the lineup, I guess. But a fourth liner at 1.8 and he's a good dude. Like, I got no problem with that signing.

But he's bad. Like, I don't know that I consider him a fourth liner. But, yeah, to your larger point, obviously, them and the Rangers have had the two best summers of anybody in the league. Well, Devils did okay for themselves, I think. They did okay for themselves. They got K.K. Suban, who knows. And Jack Hughes. Right, but, and that helps. But also, like, that Wayne Simmons contract is psychotic.

Why not just light $5 million on fire? That one's a tough one for me, because, like, Like, he gives them everything that they need from the perspective of, like, you have P.K. At the point on your power play, you need someone to stand in front of the net. You don't want it to be Taylor Hall. But then you also have to play them at five on five. And therein lies the problem is that you can't put on five anymore. He gives you everything you need in terms of like what Pierre LeBron was talking about he provides last year.

And I don't know if he's that guy anymore. He's not. And again, the issue is that, you know, it's the toughness thing. It's the net front thing. But then he also has to play five and five. And you could easily see that he's going to play on a line with Travis Zajack and be like a minus 200 and coursey, you know, by the end of the season. Yeah. So that's the issue.

Yeah. I have a really bad year. And it's going to cost five. I guess maybe the $5 million doesn't matter. Yeah. They got money to burn. Yeah. And it is, and it's one year.

That's the key with the Wayne Simmons deal. Was that nobody go out there to commit. Yeah. At least it's not two or three, right. But this is, first of all, you guys are, you guys are like, oh, Wayne Simmons, this and that. This is Mark Messier Leadership Award. recipient, Wayne Simmons. They had to mail it to him, but yeah.

He's now in his third team in the calendar year that he won the award in. But that's, yeah, it's, he's going to come in. According to me, Steve Simmons, being on multiple teams means that she's not a very good player when you're on multiple teams. I didn't know you had a Simmons impression. That's, uh, it's just a foaming, uh, asshole can, you know. Yeah. No, Simmons is fine. We didn't do a show before the Kessel Trey, I just realized, did we?

No. Nope. What'd you think? But we kind of knew that one was, that made a lot of sense for both teams. Did it? It made sense for one team. I feel like, which team are you talking about? I'm generally curious.

If Pittsburgh had decided that they had to move on, which they clearly had, I think they did. they did fine. I mean, you know, a lot of times when you're dumping guys for salary or other concerns, you don't get much back at all. I think they got back not Phil Kessel, but a younger, cheaper, not quite as good version of Phil Kessel. That's not bad. They got dollar store Phil Kessel. Yeah. But they can only afford to pay dollar store price. Well, they ended, freed up room for Brandon Tanneth. So, I don't know where I was going with this. Like you said, I mean, if it's a situation where you had to move Kessel out because him and the coach are just at loggerheads now, because according to the Rob Rossi report, it was a situation where Phil.

Can we talk about that? Oh, dude. That was, I mean, that was borderline hot dog shit as far as I was concerned. That was fucking crazy. There are certain members of the Pittsburgh media who will. have certainly carried some water lately for managers or coaches in that town. I think Mark Madden might need his own tanker truck at this point for all of the water he's carrying for the penguins at this point based on how he's defended the TANF deal and slayed Phil on the way out

of town. But, you know, if it's a situation where the coach is like, I need you on the third line and Phil's like, yeah, not playing third line anymore. I mean, what do you do? You have a guy that refuses to be cast in the role you want to cast them in. So it's understandable if that's part of the equation and they have to move them out. They can't replace his goals. They can't replace his offense. And Galcenaic, you know, Golcynuk's an interesting guy because I feel like that 30-goal season might be an anomaly. And the last time that the Penguins did this, it was the Nick Beekstad trade where it's like, oh, this guy, his numbers aren't where they should be with this other team.

We'll put them on the penguins and watch them explode and they didn't really. So. Oh, boy. I know. They're considerably worse than they were. Let's talk about Brandon Tanna, though. Six years, buddy. Yikes. I mean, I saw Brandon Tanna playing college.

He's pretty good, but, like, that is... Hold on. This is interesting. You saw Brandon Tanov play. Because according to Pierre McGuire yesterday on 930, the fan in Pittsburgh. Pierre said, I love the pundits who I don't even know who these people are that write this stuff. I've better than league 31 years. I wonder how many of these people saw tan of play. So you're saying that you saw tan of play. Interesting. And he's bad. He's a,

oh. Interesting. How fascinating. So Pierre's not talking about you. You're not one of the analytics nerds that are fouling up, fouling up hockey. As Pierre said yesterday, fouling up hockey. Yeah. Which? Yeah, it's a bad contract. And he is, as pointed out by many, an offensive black hole. He can throw a check. You can kill a penalty.

He is not the type of person you give six years to. That's fucking bad shit. I wrote a piece once about the types of terrible contracts, and I said that the first type of bad contract is paying big money for depth and heart and grit and all that stuff. The second type was July 1st free agent signings, and the worst possible contract was paying for depth on July 1st. And this is now my exhibit A. This is a terrible... It's so funny because there was that quote from an anonymous GM that was like, yeah, I'm trying to get rid of all my bad contracts so I can give out more. Yes.

Yeah. Which is rare self-re. awareness. I don't know if you know this. You don't have to fucking give that contract. Right. There were some bad ones. It's a, it's a, it's a great, it's a great signing. Tyler Myers was that worse or better than Tann of shorter, more expensive? I'm actually, I'm actually surprised that it was only, what was it, six million? Yeah, because they floated these ridiculous numbers. Yeah. just got everybody's hair on fire, and then they came in at still ridiculous, but not quite as ridiculous numbers, which at least that shows a certain intelligence by the parties involved, that they were able to kind of manipulate the public perception a little bit.

It really all depends on what the rest of that defense looks like in three years, when this contract becomes an albatross. Right. You know, that's the issue. This contract's an albatross today. Dude, so I went on Vancouver Radio last week. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. And this was when the rumor was still like 7 or 8 million over 7 years.

And I want you guys to guess, based on what I'm about to tell you, whether the station I went on is a rights holder. Now, don't you think that even if, yeah, we all agree maybe 7 or 8 is too much. money, but what if they get him for like four or five? And I, and me saying, I would not give him any contract. He's, you know, very bad. No term, I don't

want him on my team. Yeah, but what? It was, it was just like ten minutes of that, and I was like, what the fuck is happening? Yeah. Jordi Ben for two million a year is fine. Right? He's okay. I guess. Sure.

Sure. They're a weird, weird team. I don't, I don't quite get the Meyer signing, but, you know, you got to throw money at somebody, I suppose. Well, again, this is, I don't, I'm not trying to pick on Jim Benning here, because I think there are many GMs in this circumstances, but I, like I keep saying, your favorite team's GM, his top priority is not your favorite team. It's his job as GM. And I think Jim Benning, knows that if they don't make the playoffs this year, he's probably fired. And so he's bringing in guys that he thinks will help the team be good now. And he's giving them term that he's, it's, from his perspective, either Tyler Myers is going to be good, in which case five years, six million is probably fine, or he's not going to be good, in which case it's not going to be Jim Benning's problem. So it's kind of a win-win either way for him.

So these deals aren't that hard to figure out when you kind of look at it. get it through that filter. And same thing in Florida, I think, is if that's where we're going next is kind of the... Before we get to Florida, I like your thought. Then explain the Matt Socorrollo signing. Well, some GMs are bad. And, but more importantly, Greg, I don't know if you know this, but some players, they're like, they're like lizards. And they shoot their tongue out. And that, what the hell was that? He is, his quotes. in the last like two weeks have been bat shit crazy.

Like I said it on Twitter, but like I think we might need to do a wellness check on this guy. Like he doesn't seem like he's doing too much. Is he doing a bit? Is this? The actual quote for those who didn't see it, Jim Bet. I'm sorry, Jim Benning. Wrong shitty GM. Paul Fenton on Matt Socorillo.

I told him when I was talking to him that he's like a lizard, the way a lizard takes his tongue and sticks it as far as it does and retrieves what it trying to do. And now I'll read it as Donald Trump. I told him when I was talking to him, he's like a lizard, the way a lizard, he takes his tongue, he sticks it as far as it does and it treats what I was trying to do. Same difference.

There are, it doesn't make any sense. There are so many Jamie Ben jokes right now that I can't even, my mind can't process it. Like honestly, if I'm Matt Zuccarello and he tells me that, I'm like, tack another million.

onto the AAV for how fucking psychotic that was what you just said to me. And plus, his last crazy quote was the whole, like, tall guy thing. So apparently you have to be either really tall or a really short Norwegian lizard. Look, I just think that we're missing the larger point here, which is that he got the guy to sign. All these other GMs that are going around not comparing unrestricted freeations to reptiles, they're the ones that are doing it wrong. Okay, because he got the guy to sign. You know, Metzikerell is fielding all these offers.

They're all like, we really like you. You bring great leadership, hustle. Then he gets some weird fucking guy from Minnesota walking and being like, you know what you are? You're like a lizard. You got your tongue. You're putting it as far as he can. And you're retrieving whatever it is, a lizard retrieves. And Matt Ziggroos like, fuck, I've got to go to Minnesota and see what happens next.

I think it's more like Zuccarella's like five years. And then he looks at his own birth certificate. And he's like, yeah. All right. I'll go sign with Lizard Man. I'll spend the next few months dealing with him before the new guy comes in. I'll jump in there. My God.

You know, Joe Pavelsky, you're a bit like a salamander. Yeah, I'm going to Dallas. I'm sorry, I have to go to Dallas now. I do think in defense of Paul Fenton, which is something that will never be uttered again, I think, on any podcast. This is clearly the owner. there, Craig Leopold, refusing to accept the fact that the wild are never going to contend with this lineup and constantly trying to get him to acquire, like, guys like Matt Zuccarello to stay relevant, even though what they should be doing right now is tearing it the fuck down.

And how do you even tear that down with some of those deals? That's the thing. Maybe that's it. Maybe that's, maybe that's the solution. They can't. Yeah. Well, there you go. They're very terrible, but unterrible. Oh, there it is. A team we haven't talked about yet, the Florida Panthers, what the fuck? What? The Brobsky deal, it's like, you know, they needed a goalie,

and he's good probably, but... He's great. He's a great goalie. There's something wrong with that at all. Yeah, he's very, well, but again, like, he's good now. Yeah, but who cares about, who cares what happens later? You're trying to win in the next like four years. You got Quenville.

Who cares about later? Well, right, I understand. But point is, like, it's $10 million, first of all. And second of all, not even in the top three bad contract. Like, it was an okay contract. It's not even in the top three bad ones they signed. That's Strallman deal, what the fuck? He's in decline.

And that makes no sense. sense at all. The Bob deal is fine for me because the only thing that's curious about it is that we all figured it was going to come in under that because of Florida, because of the tax thing. And for him to get 10 out of that team annually in that state was kind of shocking. But, you know, and also, like, it's not as if there was a ton of teams, I think, in the market for Sigreibroovsky, was there? Not at that fucking. Wouldn't have thought.

I mean, the Islanders, maybe. Maybe the Islanders, and that was it. But, yeah, I got no, he's a great goalie. He impressed his shit into me in the playoffs. I got no issue with them going as long and as much as they had to do to get him. Because in the next four years, he'll be fine. And then in year five, he'll probably fall apart. See, I'm not even confident about that.

I mean, he's 30 years old already. But, yeah, he should be at least good for a year or two. And then after that, who knows. But to speak to Sean's point, not Dale Talon's problem. Like when that happens? Probably not. No, he's probably what, 70-ish? Like he's an old guy at this point.

I will say this. I mean, I think this has got future disaster written all over it. I do understand that there are certain teams where you almost have to push all your chips into the near term. Because you've been bad for so long. You've built up a decent young core. Like at some point, you bring in the big coach. At some point, if there was ever. going to be a team that would just say, look, if this guy's good for three years, we'll figure

out the back half of the contract later, it does make some sense for the Florida Panthers. Just as an organizer, you've got to show something. At some point, for the same reason that I didn't mind what Columbus did at the deadline, like at some point, you've got to win something. You can't just be on the fringe always. But the other problems with these contracts, the Brett Connolly deal psychotic. Yeah. Like, it's too, it's way too much money and term.

Speaking of signing depth for a bunch of term on July 1. And then, oh, who was the other one? They got one more guy. Who, Florida? Yeah. They got one more guy. Who was it? Achari.

It was Achari, which, again, like, it's a good, it's a good amount of money, but, like, three years in a no trade? What the fuck? Yeah, isn't the whole thing like if you get Joel Quinville, everyone's going to want to come play for Joel Quinville in Florida where it's beautiful and you don't have to be handing out fucking trade production. Yeah, Nolachari's career high in points is 14. Like, what are we doing? Yeah, indeed. We didn't talk about Joe Pavelsky. I mentioned him before.

I will write sonnets about this signing for Dallas. I think it's perfect. I know that people... Does he play defense or no? He does not play defense. That's why they have noted all-around great Calder trophy-winning defenseman. Miro He's getting in back there. I love this trade.

The signing so goddamn much because, A, I think he's still good. B, they don't have a player like that on their roster that actually will bleed for the team in the playoffs as he does. does. Net front presence. Love it all. What? Are you honestly saying that a team that is fucking wandering the desert as a contender doesn't get better by having a guy like Joe Pavelski on the roster? Are you honestly going to make that fucking argument? It's not because he bleeds for the team in the playoffs. He's good because he's good. In fairness, it's bleeding for the team in the playoffs is pretty effective this year, actually. It's extraordinary. It's kind of won a series that way. I don't understand why you don't

don't give more credit to leading by example. Like, having, like, you were the, one of the first guys that would put over Yager as a guy who was like, oh, great example to the younger players for keeping himself in shape and shit like that. Like, Pavelsky's that guy. First of all, I don't, I don't know that that's true. But also, like, Yager was fucking good until he was, like, 52 years old, Craig. Like, he was a really good.

But Povilski, having Pavelski on your team, where they've got a number of young guys on that roster, it's a fucking good. I don't know that that's what they need to get over the top. Of course it is. You have, you, your two best players in the team were called a bunch of fucking assholes and horseshit last year by the team president. Team president's a moron. Greg, they needed a career year from Ben Bishop to barely make the playoffs. Right.

And this is. Joe Velsky signed till he's 51 away from that. Well, no, but it helps. He's, he's going to give them a better secondary scoring option. then fucking giggle Spetsa did for the last two years. Yeah, because Jason Spetser was washed because he was on a really long contract and he's in his mid to late 30s. I'm trying to think, did they assign anybody who's in their mid to late 30s? I don't know.

I can't, I can't think of anybody. Anyway. You think that Pavelsky's washed? No, I don't, I definitely don't think he is, but like in year two of that contract, year three? Well, you know. Year three, I think is, this could turn a little Marlowish, although that, that, that, that, He was a couple years older, so you've got at least a shot at it. Yeah, I don't know.

This is, I'd like it a lot better at two years. I don't know that that's what they needed. Like, they got better by signing Joe Pavelsky. They're better with them than without him. But, like, to what extent? To the extent that they're better. Like, that's all that matters. Like, like, it's cool that you could say, don't, like, take the $7 million and do what with it?

Like, what is your fucking plan be? Remember the thing that we were just saying about GM? What is your plan? What's the deal? Remember the thing about GMs where they don't have to spend money just because they have it? Remember when we were saying that and agreeing about that? But they don't have, they're a one-line team. Like, this gives them a shot at having a second line.

There's a finite number of guys in the market that were going to be able to do that. And Pavellsky was one of them. And they're not getting fucking Dushain, you know. Right. Or Panarin. But what I'm saying is, of the available possibilities, he's a really good one. What are they a Pavellski away from?

Maybe scoring a goal from in front of the opposing net. They could probably use that. They didn't have that last year. They don't be a fucking asshole. Look, what are they a Povilski? Like, what does Pervilski get them? Like, again, they barely made the playoffs last year with Ben Bishop. I don't know, Ryan.

Maybe a, maybe a goal. Maybe a goal in a fucking game seven, maybe he can get them that. Like, maybe that's the thing that they could get from Joe Pabelsky is a goal in a game seven. And then all of a sudden you're in the fucking next round? Do you think, I'm not sure that they're good enough to get to a game seven if Ben Bishop turns back into Ben Bishop. But what evidence do you have that that's going to happen? Let's see, he's 32. Oh, God.

He's coming on. He's still dealing with his injury history. I understand the degradation of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, he's coming on. of a player's body, but you have this thing where, like, like, I think you want the NHLB Logan's run, where everybody gets fucking executed when they turn 32 years old. That's fine. What would be wrong? What would be wrong?

Like, if, if you had a rule of we don't have guys on the roster after their 32nd birthday, how many, like, how would that be a bad thing? You would have deprived Bredor of, like, four Vezanus. I don't think that's true. but also, you know, Vrodor didn't have the injury history that Ben Bishop does. No, I, listen, he's very fragile.

That's very true, but that doesn't mean that his numbers are all a second get in a going to go to the fucking tank next year. Greg, but what I'm saying to you is, they don't even have to go in the tank. He went from 916 in his first year with Dallas to 934 in seven fewer games played. Do you, like, what do you think is the more likely out? come for the following season.

I mean, did something else change on the roster between those two years? I'm not sure. Sure, but okay, then let's look at Anton Hudobin. How did Anton Hudobin do last year? Oh, he was 923 after being 913 and he played 10 extra games. Do you think that holds up? So it's almost like we went from giving the Allender's credit for changing their system to not giving Jim Montgomery any credit for playing a system that benefits his goalies. Is that what's happening now? So I don't understand. You think... It's easy to understand.

Like, the goaltending improved because they changed coaches and the guy came in and then both the ones had really good numbers. You think Jim Montgomery comes in and he's like, you know what I have is a plan to raise the team save percentage 12 points. But that's what happened. It happened one year. Okay. Is it going to happen two? Is it going to happen three? I don't, you know, I'm not optimistic.

So let me, I'm just trying to figure out what general manager. What are they are, Craig? I'm just trying to figure out what general manager Ryan Lambert wants to do here. So do you do nothing because you think that your goaltending that was really great last year won't be good the next year? Like, I'm just trying to figure out what your plan going forward is. All I'm saying is you're saying this is like one of the best signings of the off season. I don't think it fucking moves the needle for them.

Oh, I completely disagree. Yeah, I know you do because you're wrong. Sure. No, no, you're right. No, it's, what you should do is you should throw your fucking hands in the air and, and get the roster because your goalie that was, you know, Vesna quality obviously is going to fall apart next year. Because you just know what's going to happen. He's, I mean, he's fucking a year older, right? I don't know that it's going to happen.

But again, I, but that's no way to manage your team. It's very out of, it's very out. Greg, he went from, let's see, what was he? 9-11 in 2016, 17, and 9-16, and then 9-13. And you're like, you know what? I think that 934 is going, well. I'm still trying to figure out what your point is, though, is like, do you have to manage your team with the notion that your goalie's not going to be as good as he was last year? And if that's the case of what you do, do you just, you just walk away from the table, you just quit?

You don't try to improve your team? Like, what the fuck is that? I just, like I said, I just don't understand what you think Pavelski gets them, like in the long term. He had 38 goals last year. He's good. Are they... But he's a year older, so his bones turn to dust, as will Ben Bishops. No.

No, I'm saying... What I'm saying is, obviously, the stars were not as good as maybe the record indicated last year because of how high the team save percentage was. I think they were fine under Jim Montgomery. I don't think they were, like, raised the team safe percentage 20 points or 10 points reliably good. if those numbers take a step back, and even if they're not as bad as they were two years ago, and they take a slight step back,

like they're barely a playoff team at best with the addition of Pavelsky. So I think at best this is spinning the tires. Okay, I'll leave it at that. I could possibly disagree more with that, but we'll just leave it at that. The move that's like this, that actually is probably better is the Dushain one, which again is like the one we all saw coming.

Now Nashville is worth a damn beyond the first line, and that's exciting. And I don't know if you guys heard, but he likes country music. I did hear that. Because Sean mentioned earlier that he wanted to move closer to home or something like that, and everybody thought that meant Montreal. But he was regardless of where he was playing, he is building a house in Nashville right now. Exactly.

It's a great signing. I mean, they paid a lot of money. And they didn't even pay a lot of money for him, to be honest with you. Were you surprised by the term? Yeah, the number. They put out the number that was high. I'm still, I mean, to me, Matthew Shane is a guy that if he's your number two center, you're in great shape.

If he's your number one, I don't know that you're a cup favorite. and he's kind of, he's that sort of tweener guy and he's getting, for now at least number one money, that's free agency. You know, nobody comes out of free, no big name comes out of free agency on a cheaper deal unless he sign an offer sheet with the Canadians. So it's, I mean, I feel like we've already, we had all already baked in the fact that he was going to Nashville and it was going to be for a lot of money. So when the deal does come down, you're like, oh, this is fine. whereas if it had maybe dropped out of nowhere, we'd be scratching our heads a little bit more. But again, you know, David,

David Poyle is not here to worry too much about your seven and eight. He's, he's, he wants that cup ring. And Nashville wasn't good enough to, to really be in that picture last year. So this, dude, you knew this was coming? Is it worth clearing P.K. Suban out for 10 cents on the dollar? That's the real question, right? You know, that's where it starts to get,

Because that's what you normally right, when you sign a free agent, you might say, well, we pay too much, but we didn't give up any assets to get them. Here you did indirectly give up a pretty big asset to get them. So I don't, I don't love this deal, but we all knew it was coming and it, under those circumstances, it could have been worse. What I come back to, though, is they, I still don't think they ever replaced James Neal. Like, the first line's great. Duchesne's going to be fine. I still hate what they have on the wings on this team. And that's a real problem.

If they need a James Neal back, I happen to know a team that would probably hook them up with one. But it's a good signing. Oh, we didn't talk about on the Dallas thing, because Lambert and I started yelling at each other. Corey Perry, taking the old Brad Richards deal for one year with the stars. Is he washed or does he have something left? Oh, yeah, he is cooked. I can't remember what the bonus structure was, but like the difference between, this in a Brad Richards contract is Brad Richards I think just took like two million bucks or whatever

the number was. It was a million. So even better for Chicago. It's one point five but like with bonuses it can get up to three point two five and the bonuses are okay here I'm on cap friendly now the bonuses are every 10 games up to 50 he gets an extra 250 grand if they make the playoffs win for another 250 grand on top of that. And playoff bonus, if the club wins three rounds, not going to happen. He gets another 100 grand, and then another 150 grand if they win the Stanley Cup. So, you know, he's going to get another, I don't know, even if he plays half the season, he's going to get an extra million bucks out of it.

Yeah, but I see, to me, he's probably cooked, but he might not be. And if he isn't, this is kind of one of those high reward, maybe medium risk. Like, I don't mind this. I don't mind kind of rolling the dice here on one year. Yeah, right. And I mean, you can just not play him and then he doesn't get a bunch of the money and that's fine too. But, I mean...

Oh, that'd be nefarious. Well, I mean... If he's not good enough, I mean, if he's... If he's David Backus... for you, right? Like, if he's not good enough to playing your lineup, you just put him in the press box. Like, that's life.

It doesn't matter who he is, or used to be, I guess. Because he's gone from 19 to 17 to 6 goals in his last 154 games. That's a pretty steep decline from he had 34 the year before that run started. So I don't know, man. Not great, Bob, as I say. Yeah.

Yeah, we talked about Dushain. I'm trying to think there was any free. We didn't mention Anders Lee went back. We just had the same thought. I'm very happy for the Islanders that they didn't have to see their captain walk away in consecutive seasons. Yes. That'd be a little embarrassing. But for the money that was being bandied about for this guy, seven over seven with the Islanders to stay there.

I think it's pretty reasonable, honestly. I don't think it's crazy in either term or. money. I think that's, if you had told me going in, Anders Lee's going to get seven by seven from somebody, I'd have gone, okay, that's all within the realm of, like, reasonability, I guess. Yeah, it's, I mean, a guy who's 29. Happy birthday, Andersley, by the way. He just turned 29 today. Hey, there you go. Uh, yeah, that's, yeah, this, I mean, we've seen, I just wrote a piece about the worst free agent signings in recent history and it was just littered with those wingers from the 2000 remember 2016 where every winger was getting seven years and six million and they are all

have turned out terribly and and this is seven times seven not a power forward not somebody who's like whose body is going to break down necessarily but yeah i i i don't i don't love it but i also get that he very clearly wanted to stay and i think the island if they weren't going to get Panarin and according to some, even if they did get them, it meant something to them to bring the captain back and not have him walk again. And so it probably works out fine. Boy, they really thought they were getting Panarin though. They were.

And it's, you know, I know everybody says that the spin right now is Lee was coming back no matter what. They wanted to bring Panarin and Lee in the same deal. but I don't know. The fact that you let your captain get to July 1st, which means you can't get the eighth year, it really, from the outside, this feels like this was plan B. But I guess even if it was,

they would want very much not to have that perception be out there. So, you know, if you're going to spin, spin away, why not? Big fan, by the way, of John Davidson, dunking on the Islanders with the, we know he wants to be here in New York. specifically with the Rangers when Panera and sign with the Rangers. I love it. Make it make that

rivalry as spicy as possible in my eyes. Incestuous Albert and Goley moves we didn't talk about Mike Smith to the Islander, it's the islanders, same difference, to the Oilers and Cam Talbot to the flames. What the fuck?

Yeah, both those teams made a mistake. I just don't get it. What a weird flex that is. They take each other's houses? Like, what happens in this situation? Yeah, it's weird. Most of the people who have played for both the flames and the oilers were goalies for some reason.

I can remember Fred Brathwaite off the top of my head. I'm trying to remember if there were any other ones. Grant Fierer was one. Grand Fierer, yep. Curtis Joseph. So there you go, yeah. It's not as rare as it used to be to have guys play for both teams, but definitely it seems like if it's going to be somebody, it should be a goalie.

Yeah, both these guys are very bad. Talbot, I think, just got ground into dust by that one season with the Oilers. Mike Smith, at least, you know, it's because he's 50. Yeah. Ken Holland, I think, is in a good situation because he could basically just say that I couldn't do anything because Peter Shrierly fucked up the team so bad. Yeah. Like, that's a pretty good place to be.

And all the, all the media that loved Peter Shirelli will agree with him that there's nothing he could do because of all those terrible moves that they applauded when they happened. They applauded at the time. Yeah. Still, though, it's kind of stunning that didn't do. But it is, like, Calgary is the one that confuses me, because Calgary is good. Like, they've got a good team that you give them solid goaltending. Not even necessarily great goaltending. You give them solid goaltending.

They've got a chance to do something. And this might be it. Who knows? It's goaltending. You throw any two guys back there. One of them might have a career year and you'd be fine. Yeah, one like Dave Ridditt. Yeah, exactly.

I'm still waiting for the shoe to drop on T.J. Brody. I feel like they're going to trade them this summer. I just don't know when and where. It definitely seems that way. And Fro League might get traded as well based on all the rumors you're here and out of Calgary. But rumors an innuendo. Yeah.

Oh, by the way, Paul Heyman back to Raw, and Raw was great this week. So good job. Didn't watch it. What about Smackdown? Was that good with Bish Offering? I heard it was all paint by numbers. On Raw, dude, not only did they have two guys go through the raw Jumbotron, and it all sparked and went crazy, and they both had to go to the hospital, but they had the Undertaker come back

and shoot lightning at the ringposts. So it was a very wrestling. return to wrestling on Raw. That sounds all right. Let me know if anyone drives a beer truck, Zamboni, or any of a milk truck in the arena. Well, it would probably be Becky Lynch because she's basically... She's stone cold, Steve Austin.

Yeah, they're just doing the stone cold template with her. It's very underwhelming, but still. Stone cold, if he spent all day just being cranky on Twitter and... Yeah, dunking on Ronda Rousey. Yeah, absolutely. All right, well, that's free. agency. Also, we should mention Daryl Sutter is now a coaching consultant with the,

with the ducks. That's exciting. You want to talk about a plan B. Jesus Christ. That's them being very ready to pull the shoot on Dallas Aiken. Yeah, nothing says, this is a guy I didn't really want to hire more than bringing in a coaching consultant that will probably take over the job within a year and a half. Did we do Hall of Fame last week?

I forget. We did. Okay, good. God, it's hard to put these shows on a timeline to figure out what the fuck happened. All right, that was like the whole point of the show last week was the Hall of Fame. Rank the Spider-Men. Tom Holland, Andrew Garfield, Toby McGuire. Garfield, third, Holland, second, Toby first.

You know, it's funny. I was watching the original Spider-Man last night when I was falling asleep. I feel like Toby gets kind of a raw deal. It was awesome. He was, I think Holland is better as spidey, but Toby wasn't the worst Peter Parker for what they were going for in those movies. I don't know. I like Holland a lot.

I'll make that judgment after this next one, after this next one. Yeah, I haven't seen Homecoming yet. He also gets that like Tony Stark rub. which kind of makes it a little bit warped in my perception, because they play off each other so well. Not anymore, spoiler. But until I see Far From Home, I agree with you. Toby, Holland, Garfield, and then the animated one,

which I was never really a fan of. I said that I hadn't seen Homecoming. I meant Far from Home. I have seen Homecoming, of course. Sean? I think I saw one of the Toby McGuire movies. I have seen Tom Holland in Avengers, and I literally don't know who Andrew Garfield is,

even though I understand that he's very famous. Did you see the social network? I did. He's the other guy. He's the guy that's not Army Hammer. The guy who's not Justin Timberlake or... Not Justin Timberlake or... He's like the fourth big guy.

Like, he's the guy that Zuckerberg's fucks up. Not the Winkle of I, not Lex Luthor and not Justin Timberlake, but the other guy. I stand by my statement. Lex Luthor. How dare you, sir? Garfield, I remember Garfield got a lot of, like, props for, again, like, I think he was a better, like, Toby McGuire as Spider-Man was always not good. But he was really good as Peter Parker. And Holland is the best Spider-Man.

And Garfield was a really good Spider-Man, but a shitty Peter Parker because he was too good-looking. Can't have a good-looking Peter Parker. Bad news for Tom Holland, I guess. He's got weird ears, Tom Holland. And he's also, like, you know, short. So, no, I'm just saying. You can't have a Peter Parker that's too attractive. Rank the love interests.

Kirsten Dunst, Emma Stone, I guess, Zendaya. I think I'd probably go with the same order by franchise. I would go curse and dunst, then Zendaya, then Emma Stone. I'd go Emma Stone, Zendaya, Carson Dunst. Enough, she's just not good. She wasn't good at his MJ. She was good because she had red hair, and people were like, oh, it's exciting. They got someone with red hair to play her.

She was all right. I mean, she was fine. Not my MJ necessarily A war winner She won, right? Who, Kristen Dunst? Oh, what? For interview with the vampire, maybe?

No, oh no, I thought you were talking about Emma Stone. Oh, no, Emma Stone, definitely Academy Award. And she was Glenn Stacy in that one. Yeah, she wasn't MJ. Right, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's my Ben. It's fine, because you forgot about it because those movies were objectively terrible.

Yeah, not great. Also, when I was watching the original Spider-Man, I turned it on during the scene where Willem Defoe realizes that Toby McGuire is Spider-Man because he has the cut on his arm at their Thanksgiving dinner, and then goes outside and tells James Franco in reference to MJ, do what you need to do with her and then Broomer. I'm like, oh, that's mean. Wow.

I know. It's like she's the freaking Tampa Bay Lightning against the Columbus Blue Jacket. Oh, there it is. bringing it back to hockey. We forgot to talk about Columbus. Oh, Gustav Nyquist, baby. Not great. Not.

They probably lost like 10 wins above replacement, and they were like, what if we bring in Gus Nyquist for a little too much money? The goose is loose. Elvis and Jonas is their goalies. They'll be fine. Will they? Yeah, sure. Carbisalla, not 897 the last two years.

Not just one. two years of 897 goal tending and a guy who's never played in North America. It's almost like, and correct me if I'm wrong, that they've gotten worse at a time when everybody else in the division has gotten exponentially better. Oh, yeah. But definitely it was worth it to go all in and sweep the lightning. That was worth it for them. It was worth it.

You shoot your shot. I completely agree. Team shoot your shot. But that goes for trade deadlines and shitty offer sheets. We asked you, the Puck Soup listeners, what your best and worst signings were. in the Free Asian Frenzy. And we got many,

got many ideas. Jen Fitzgerald said Pavelsky to the Dallas Star's hands down, but she didn't specify best or worse. So it's almost like she's been listening to this podcast and wanted to make sure on a piece with one of you. I think it's a fine contract that doesn't matter at all. Ian says whoever winds up signing Gardner for less than Myers is best and worst is Brandon Tannove. I thought I was signing Chris Tanniv.

That would even be a worst contract considering Chris Tenev's whole injury history. I'll give you six years, $2.8 million and a bank of Werther's originals. Ken Smith says The worst is without question Zuckarillo, love the guy, but imagine being where the wild are as a franchise and deciding to offer a 31-year-old, five years and six million,

and give him a no-move close. It's indefensible. How about this, though? That contract will end before the Paris and suitor deals. That's great. Eric Dardy writes in, Best and Worst All in One, Babrovsky. going to be the reason they almost make the playoffs for the next three or four years,

then the contract will be a boat anchor for the remainder. Almost make the playoffs. Oh, that's brutal. Michael says, Totally biased best signing Panasonic under 12 million. I'm imagining that's Panarin auto-corrected. Maybe? I don't know.

Maybe. Orthi Panarin really likes chili cheese dogs. Wait, it's Panasonic. Panasonic. Sonic. Oh, that's my mistake. You paid too much for your television, buddy. That's, that was, could get those cheaper.

But by far the worst, the Zuck signing in Minnesota for the term and the weird lizard comment Fenton made. Yep. Vinnie says, Best Panarin, as someone named Vinny would say. besides offensive abilities will be great for helping develop all the young Russians joining a team really worst a tan of that contract is just plain nutty uh Daniel fritz best was Vancouver signing Luongo in 2009 only to be bought out in 2019 and forcing the Canucks to rethink the Myers contract one has to rethink it enough I thought it again.

Best, the Timo Meyer re-signing or Jonas Donskoe to the abs if we stay true to the UFAs. I agree. The Meyer signing was great. He's really good. Unbelievable. What a deal. This is Jordan Levique, by the way. Worst Tyler Myers of the Canucks, that one really hurts.

And Max Codry writes in, for chaos, the best is Mike Smith flopping around on the Oilers, the worst Ajo being matched. And finally, Andrew writes in, oh, sorry, Andrew writes in, Starr's signing Pavelski-Perry for a combined 8.5 AAV next season to bolster top six is best. Well, you're half right. Montreal signing Keith Kincaid for 1.75 AAV is worst. Below average goaltending with emoji game you can get from many Twitter users. Also believes Montreal bagels are better than New York bagels, so fuck that guy.

Trent Leith finally writes in Best free agent signing was Spider-Man In far from home, we see how clutch he can be In the Avengers power vacuum Worst is going to have to be Captain Marvel For such a highly anticipated agent And the power she has Really hasn't pulled her weight

Versus a comparable like Thor Fair enough Also Knives Out looks awesome Doesn't it buddy? I try not to watch trailers, you know this one That's right. You're not a trailer guy. All right. Well, that's the show. As we mentioned on Twitter and in various places, this is the last puck soup that'll be in your usual podcast feeds.

We take the show to the Patreon for the summer. So basically the mailbag episodes become kind of like real episodes is the way it works. It's worked like that last year as well. And this is because there's no advertising to support the normal show when you get July. So that's what you'll find the show for the next two months, every week. If you've not gone to the Patreon, you should go to the Patreon and sign up for the show. But also, Lambert, I understand there's another thing that they can sign up for at the Patreon.

Yeah, I have a newsletter on there where I talk about music and movies and obviously hockey and TV and all that kind of stuff. So pop culture, hockey stuff, and just, you know, it's all for me. And I don't know, people seem to like it. I'm going to have a review of Midsummer, which I'm seeing tonight on there this week. And that's probably my most anticipated movie of the year so far. And after yesterday, which was also up there for me, was a bit of a disappointment, I thought. That's sad to hear. Yeah, I mean, I liked it, but I was so excited for it, and it just didn't live up to that.

Maybe I'd like to live in a world without yesterday in it. Well, like I said, it was fine. Like I liked it well enough, but I don't regret having seen it, but yeah. Sean. Ah, you can find me on The Athletic all summer long. I'm not going away. It will be a little less content, but one or two posts every week. So grab that offer slash soup.

If you get signed up now, that'll take you through a year, which means you get the whole season, plus the off season and draft and free agency and everything, and you'll be all set. And if you're already subscribed, look for me on there. This week we're doing a lot of bad free agent contract stuff, including my 20-man roster of the worst July 1st free agent signings, I'm going to go ahead and say your team shows up on at least once or twice.

Probably. Thanks, everybody, for a great season. Hopefully you continue to join us on the Patreon. But if not, then we'll see you in September. Like that song. That's right, like that song. So please tweet us your photos of what your summer getaway looks like. So you can be like Bob McKenzie and Pierre LeBron.

Show us where you're hanging out this summer. You can send it to at Puck Soup. podcast on Twitter and talk to you see. Oh, mailback coming up on Patreon and bonus episodes to this month. All right. Thanks everybody. Bye. Bye. Goodbye.