Puck Soup - No One Wants To Work Anymore

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

Sean and Ryan talk about three big retirements, the new Nathan MacKinnon contract, the Oilers, and more. Sponsored by Trade Coffee (drinktrade.com/puck) and Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. And I'm Sean McIndoo, and I'm announcing my retirement from... Oh, wait, no. I work at the Atlantic still.

That's right. I tried. I tried to retire yesterday and they said, no, you can't. Yeah, it's a situation where none of these freaking millennials want to work anymore. That's it. They're all doing quiet quitting. Quiet quitting, am I right? Yeah.

But that was a while, because, you know, I wake up and I see maybe five minutes before Keith Yandel was like, I'm out. And I'm like, oh, that makes sense. Yeah. You know, you barely got into a bunch of games last year and that kind of thing. I get it. You know, hey, he was really good for a while, though, wasn't he? You know? Yep.

And then P.K. Suvans, like, well, what about me? And I'm like, well, you were even better than that other guy who also just retired. He won a Norris trophy. He did. Pretty good. I went to a Stanley Cup final. Really good career. And then Zadano Char is like, these two fucking bums?

Yep. No, I'm retiring today. So now you're like, okay, who's next? That's... Yeah, I'm like, can we get like Nicholas Lidstrom? That's right. Slowly leveling up here. I was thinking like by 6 p.m.

We're gonna, Bobby Orr, I am retiring. Yeah. I do, I feel bad for Keith Yandel. Like, don't you feel like if you're, oh, yeah, if you're a player that like, you probably figure your retirement day, like, you know, you're gonna just sit back and watch the good vibe. roll in.

It's going to be Keith Yandel Day. And then by the end of the day, you're like, Keith Yandel did what? I don't even remember. Let's put it this way. Keith Yandel, he's a Boston guy,

you know, and not even worth covering in Boston. A local guy who played in the league for like 15 years or whatever is the current NHL Ironman record holder. Doesn't even like warrant a mention in the local papers

because it's like, oh, this other guy retired. He played a thousand games for the Bruins, won a Stanley Cup for them. Yeah. So, tough break for Keith. I feel really bad.

Like, even P.K. Suban retiring, you're like, look, obviously P.K. Suban was the better player, had a better career. You know, and that's not a knock on Keith's Yield. Keith Yandel was really good for like five or six years there.

I think I looked it up yesterday, I think he had like a top five Norris season one time. That sounds right. Yeah, that's awesome. He was so good, especially in Arizona. But even as he bounced around a little bit, like, you know, a classic case of he signed a contract that people just decided was bad. And everybody was like, well, that means he's bad. Yep.

So, he go. He was, he was quick. I'm looking at it now. He had a top five, nor, he had three years in a row where he got Norris votes. He got a heart vote in that one. year. Wow. Which, you know. That was that by a guy who covered the coyote?

For a defenseman playing for the coyotes, that's not bad. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, then P.K. Suban retires and it's like, oh, that guy had a way better career, actually. Then me, a guy who had an awesome career made a shitload of money. Like you said, got a heart vote one time. Yeah. And then this other guy retires and everybody's like, Keith who?

Yeah. The Sub-Ban one was actually surprising. That's the only one out of the three where we didn't really see it coming. I a little bit saw it coming, only because I think last week the NHL was like, oh, we're developing a series with PK. Sub-Band, and I'm like, oh, he's not playing anymore. That's it. Yeah, I guess that would have been a hint.

He's basically doing like the Peyton's places, but P.K.'s places. Okay. is what I understand it to be. And, you know, classic thing of just like, well, I could put myself through a lot of physical duress to get ready for an NHL season to play for maybe a million bucks, maybe. Yeah. And here's the thing, he was good last season. Again, was he $9 million good? No, of course not.

but was he was he a perfectly good NHL player who would have if you put him in the right situation this year helped just about any team in the league yeah for sure but yeah the fact that he didn't sign anywhere was a little had felt a little weird and I mean he's one of those guys and we kind of do this right

where when somebody is on a contract that I mean I was going to say is perceived as an overpay I don't even think it's perceived. Everybody would agree. He was making too much money at the end of that deal. But everyone just kind of goes, oh, okay, so you got your free money. So now you'll go somewhere else and you'll sign cheap. And, you know, some guys don't necessarily want to do that.

But even beyond that, the idea of, again, like just all, like everything you got to do to get ready for an NHL season at his age, he's got, you know, various lingering injuries. I think knee and back are some of the things he's dealt with in recent years. And it's like, well, I could do that or I could make not the same amount of money I probably could have made in the NHL, but like a, you know, a good amount of money to make a TV show, go on a ESPN. I think I'd rather do that. Like, if I'm P.K. Suben, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to fucking, like, you know, do burpees anymore. I just want to go on TV.

he always seemed like a guy who loved playing hockey, but also, like, wasn't one of these hockey robot guys who has no other interests, no other... Yeah, he has, like, Everest in his life, yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, good, good for him, but, uh, I mean, what,

what a weird career for him. Like, I, I can't think of too many guys who have followed that career arc where, like, he just, you know, blows into the, league as this, like, fantastic rookie wins a Norris in his third season. And, like, people remember, you get this revisionist thing happening where it's like he was this one hit wonder, but he wasn't.

He was first team all-star two years later, Norris finalist, uh, in Nashville. And he should, and, and like, not, uh, like just a reputation thing. Like he was a Norris caliber play. player in Nashville. 2017-18, he comes off of leading the Predators to a Stanley Cup final. Is the second team All-Star finishes third in Norris voting on a president's trophy winner. And then one not-so-good season gets traded, a couple more not-so-good seasons, and now out of the league by 30. I mean injuries, right?

Injuries, yeah. It really feels like it's that simple to me, where, like, injuries, you know, the year after he, like you say, finishes top three in the Norris, he only played 63 games. And watching the Predators then, you could kind of tell, like, he can't get around like he used to. Yeah. And for some guys, it's that simple. Like you lose half a step and all the advantages you had that made you a like mega elite player like he was. He was for what like five, six years like a top five defenseman in the league? Six years, I would say.

Yeah. Six years between six years stretch where he was a Norris finalist three times and an all-star three times. Yeah. And you know, the and the weird thing is like, you know, if you said like again at the end of that 2018 C, season, you're making a list of the five best defensemen in the NHL. P.K. Subbe is on that list. And if you had said at the time, he's got four years left, you would have thought, you probably would have thought injury,

but you would have thought like catastrophic injury. You would have thought, you know, oh, he's going to take a cheap hit. There's going to be like some big. And it wasn't really that. It was just the wear and tear and grind. And like I know it almost maybe becomes cliche for us. Sometimes, like the two of us, where we're talking about players as they're getting older and, you know, don't invest in guys that are over a certain age getting into their 30s. But I mean, this is an extreme example.

But this was a guy if, you know, if his contract had been up after that age 28 season, you would have said, yeah, go ahead. Give him six or seven years. Yeah, for sure. You know, invest heavily. And it just, and it just the production, the numbers went off a cliff. Yeah, and this is, it really is just kind of like, I don't know if you want to say like the perfect object lesson and like why it's risky to sign older guys to the kind of deals we're talking about right now. But it really does show you like in three seasons you can go from one of the best players in the league to a guy who is like, yeah, you know what? I think I might retire actually.

Yeah. Like no interest. It just, it can catch up with you so fast when you're over the age of 30. And that's just how it goes. And yeah, anyway. Lots of very cool stories about him coming out, like doing charity work on. And like, I'm at a point where I will no longer allow myself to make any judgments about who's a good guy and who's not. We don't know these guys.

But certainly a lot of those stories going out are very good stories. And, you know, if you haven't seen them, if you see it like some of the, especially the Montreal beat writers, just, you know, talking about him making trips to hospitals. And, you know, obviously we know that, you know, the big donation to the hospital there in Montreal. But, you know, just giving his time and stuff happening when the cameras weren't on and that kind of thing. good stories.

Have you ever seen that video of him like taking a bunch of disadvantaged youths from Montreal to the Havs practice facility? Have you seen this video? No, I haven't. He gets like, you know, he does like the thing Eli Manning did this week

where he puts on a bunch of makeup and he poses as like the bus driver. Yeah. And they're walking around and they're like, oh yeah, you guys are going to meet PK today. And they're like, oh, we can't find PK. and the kids are a little disappointed and he's like, wait, do you guys want to meet PK?

Do you guys want to meet Pek? And he's like, start pulling off all those. I think I have seen that actually. And the kids flip out. They lose their minds. It's a very funny video because they're like, oh wow, this is so cool. But where's P.K. Subin? He's like, oh, you're disappointed.

Hold on to say it just flips out and all the kids are losing their minds because he's making such a big show of it. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. So, you know, again, one of the things. that is like inextricable from the P.K. Suvan legacy, if you want to call it that,

is that he's just like a super entertaining guy. Yeah. And was entertaining on the ice. Because I know, like, you know, he had the personality off the ice and, you know, he did TV stuff and that. And we always, because 90% of hockey players are so boring, we're always so excited when somebody can do that.

But. He told the joke without just saying, why did the chicken cross the road to get over side? Exactly. It's like, yeah, he fucking did it. It's, but he was so far, like, he was just such a badass on the ice. And, you know, like, in Montreal, as a Leaves fan, like, I hated having to like the guy. But, like, especially the thing with him is, like, every time I picture P.K. Sue, man, I'm picturing him in a Montreal jersey, and it's against Boston.

I don't know why I feel like he played Boston in the playoffs every year. But, like, the, the. That's not wrong, though. Like, you probably did it more than one occasion. Like scoring the big goal and like grabbing the crest of the jersey or like one of the all time great hockey quotes, the,

when they were going back to Boston for game seven. And he gave the quote about like, I can't wait to be in the building and feel the energy from the fans and then take it all away from them. That's such a great quote. And then they did it. Then they actually went and beat them in their own building in game seven. Like,

so great. And then, you know, he goes to it goes to Nashville and the same sort of thing. Like he was just it was just fun to watch. Yeah, absolutely. There was a great old hockey night in Canada video, like intro video

where, you know, they play the song over it or whatever. And it's too, what's the name of that song? It's from the Buccini operato Oh, sure. I don't remember. That one.

Nessund Dorma, it's called. Okay. And it's just like, it's a beautiful starring song. You've heard it a million times for sure. And it's about, it's like a head of a Leafs, Habs game. And there's just this like slow-mo shot of him, like, wheeling out of his own zone. And he, like, the angle he's at, he kind of, like, reaches down while he's, like, carrying the puck, I feel like. to like he reaches down and just like lightly touches the ice with his free hand okay and it's just

like it's it's shot in slow motion it looks awesome the song is so good like that image is like seared into my memory of like yeah the the grace and power of you know prime pk suban when he's you know still with the canadianes or whatever man he was he was so good and i mean just such a divisive player for reasons that I'll never understand and yet I can probably guess that. And he knew that too. Like he, you know, he knew that he was, you know, oh, you high-five the goalie wrong or you're smiling too much or whatever. Like he, and he knew it too.

They ran him out of town for high-fiving the goalie weird. Yeah. While still loving the goalie. While still loving the goalie who was also doing the high-fiving. But I remember one time, God, I forgot about that. I remember one time I was covering the habs in the, in the, in the playoffs. It must have been in the playoffs. And it was, and they were playing Boston, I think.

And I'm, I'm in the dressing room and it was like game day skate. Like, it wasn't, wasn't after a game, but it was, it was during the day. And, you know, a few of us were crowded around PK Zog and the TV cameras are all there. And he's just given like these cliche to have. What do you think of the playoff series? And he's just given like these very standard, you know, kind of cliche hockey player answers. And at one point, I was just like, well, this is, like, he's not saying anything. So I just, I turned my recorder off.

And I started to walk away. And one of the, like, veteran reporters kind of like grabbed me on the arm. And he sort of like motion, like, just wait. And so, you know, we finished the availability. And the TV guys are packing up and, you know, the radio guys are. And there's just a couple of newspaper guys. guys left and the guy who grabbed me goes like hey you know pk what did you maybe addressed it earlier and i missed it but what you know what did you think of and it was like some guy on the bruns had said

something about him and he just like ripped into this like great like almost like almost wrestling promo type thing about like if he's got a problem he knows where to find you know and this and that and he's dropping all these great quotes and afterwards i was like what like to the to the other report i was like what the hell was that like where was that before and he goes pk knows he can't do that with the cameras on him because people just you know the way he talks the way he carries himself like they'll make more of it than they need to but he's like when the cameras are away you get you get more you you get more of the real pk because he does he doesn't have to like play the role of the boring hockey player you get like the real personality comes out

a bit more because he knows it doesn't translate into you know into print the way it does so um he was he was aware of it he you know he knew what was going on and And I think he managed it as best he could. And he was just fun as hell. Yeah, he rocked. And then, like I said earlier, you're like, oh, this defenseman you just talked about how much you thought he was cool for like 15 minutes. Zadain Ocharra is like, I'm actually better than him and I'm retiring on the same day. Besides a one-year contract or one-day contract with the Bruins, one year, hey, they could maybe use them.

probably not. But yeah, one day contract with the Bruins. Again, I say this all the time. He had played like 500 plus NHL games before he gets to the Bruins at like age 29. And then he plays a thousand plus games with the Bruins. And then he plays like two more years after that. And there's, look, you talk about, you know, P.K. being the cautionary example of guys,

breaking down, you know, Charra is what every GM thinks they're getting when they sign a guy in their late 20s. And he should, like, six foot nine, you know, a physical force, six foot nine, his knee should have exploded by the time he was 32 or 33. There's no way this guy should have been playing well into his 40s, but you, you never know. And again, like, I mean, I just finished saying with P.K. Montreal, again, as a Leaves fan, Charra in, in Ottawa and Boston, Like, you just, like, oh, God, this guy again. And his evolution, because he comes into the league with the Islanders, and he's like a, you know, I don't want to say he's a freak show, but he's a curiosity. We've never seen a player this big, you know, we've never, he's this like weird, gangly guy.

And you say, like, how often do you say it with a player, especially one who's got physical tools that, hey, you know, if it ever all clicked into place, look out. But it never does. And then he goes to Ottawa and after a couple of years, suddenly it does start to click into place. And you're just kind of watching it going like, oh, no, wait a second. This guy's figuring it out. And just, you know, in Ottawa became this guy that you were just terrified of in more ways than one. And then somehow leveled up his game in Boston, even more beyond that. Just definitely one of the most fascinating, unique players that we will ever see in, in the

NHL. 100%. So his second season in the AHL that he split between the Islanders and the NHL, he played in Lull. So I saw this guy. And again, like you say,

total curiosity. This guy, because he was rail thin until he was like, yeah, three, 24 years old. And so you're like, oh, this guy like looks like a, you know,

you ever see like a baby giraffe getting its feet under it for the first time? Like that's what it looked like out there. He also, like, I seem to recall, like, beat the shit out of a bunch of guys, you know. He could, yeah. But, yeah, 47 penalty minutes in 23 games. That sounds about right. Let's just say word got out pretty quick.

Yeah, you don't want to mess with the big fella. And he was never a guy, like, that was part of his story, right? He never seemed like a guy who liked that part of the game or embraced it. Like, it was sort of like, you know, I, I. I don't really, I'm sure it happened a few times, but I don't remember too many games where it was like, oh, yeah, the team's down, that, you know, things are going, Charra's going to go out and start something.

Like, he didn't start stuff, but he finished it. If you, like... A hundred percent. And there were more than a few times where he could have finished guys and didn't. Like, you remember, like, Le Cavié one time, losing his mind and deciding to try to fight Chara. And Chara just had him, like, pin down, like, holding his fist up. Like, dude, I could punch through you and hit the ice right now.

I'm not going. to, but, you know, like, that, that just became the thing where it was like, all right, don't, don't, don't try him. I saw a quote yesterday from one of his last few years with the Bruins, and he had gotten into a fight with someone at age 51 and pounded them into dust. And the quote after the game from one of his teammates was, yeah, that's what happens when you tangle with Thanos. It was basically the idea of, like, you called him Thanos. and it's like, yeah, no, this guy is a destroyer of worlds. Like he's, and this is the thing to your point earlier about like he should have, you know, his knees should have given out way before. This guy was a fitness monster.

Like he, um, you know, would like basically do the Tour de France, uh, route, uh, in the offseason. Like he just clown there, I remember one summer he climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. Like, yeah, I just go do that. Yeah, but I mean, that was like three steps for him. So it's not. Right. Yeah, he just took a, he just took a quick walk in the afternoon, got to the, got to the summit of Africa's highest peak. But yeah, no, he like just famously an insane fitness guy.

And I saw earlier this morning, someone was like, do you think he signed the one-day contract the day before training camp starts? So he could still like fitness test off the charts and then just go home. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Could be. But yeah, just again, like, no doubt Hall of Fame defensemen. Only won one Norris. Can you believe that?

Yeah, that is surprising because he was in the running like eight top five finishes. Yeah, there you go. And then a few more in the top ten. Like just, I mean, you know, the goal scoring. The other thing that I love about him, and he played for so long that I feel like every fan base, or most fan bases have got like that one memory of the one time somebody knocks Zadanochera down. Like, you know, where like some regular size dude on your team just caught him, you know, unexpected or, you know, off balance or whatever and knocked him down.

Didn't like crush him, didn't knock him out or anything, but just like knocked him off his skates. And you just remember that for years. Like, holy crap. Yeah, like when, when Andre the Giant would get knocked to one knee. Yes. Yeah. Not knock down. He's not flat on his back, like when the Hulkster slammed him at WrestleMania 3.

But like, you get Andre the Giant down even a little bit. And the crowd is like, I've never seen something like this before. It was just bananas. Yeah. Like he would get up, like not remotely shaken up or anything, but it was just, oh, it was, it was so fun. And, you know, the thing, the thing about him that's so interesting is like, again, he comes into the league in the late 90s, this giant. Okay, he's still gangly.

He doesn't have it yet, but he can fight. He's huge. He can, you know, he's one of these guys. You know, you talk about Andre the Giant. I mean, he clears the net like Fezic and Princess Bride, right? He just shows up and goes, get out of here. And people are like, yes, sir. So, I mean, the late 90s, early 2000 style of hockey, this guy's perfect, right?

This is, this is, especially in Ottawa and he starts to put it together. This is your dream. But this is like, what if Scott's. Stevens was six inches taller. Oh my God, this guy's going to be unstoppable. And then the lockout comes and the NHL kind of transforms. And, you know, I know everybody up here in Ottawa is always going back over the whole thing that they chose red and over Chara, which is they kind of did, kind of didn't.

They definitely did. You can't say they didn't. Well, the reason I say maybe they didn't is because there's, we don't know for sure that Charra wanted to stay. Sure. had been saying that he was ticked off about Hosa and stuff like that, that he, that he wasn't, that maybe it wasn't an option. But, you know, they certainly kept redden and didn't keep Chara.

But what people forget is that first year in Ottawa, like he was, he was good in the first year after the lockout. But then in the playoffs, they lost, I want to say Buffalo, like, man, there was, there were guys going around him. And there was some talk that, hey, in this new NHL, this is this new fast-skilled NHL, this guy is not you know this isn't the guy you hang your hat on you you you go for a wayd red right the guy who can make that that big first pass with now that we don't have the red line you know

the the breakout passes were a big thing back then and chara's going to kind of he won't be as effective and you know he he either was so good or was able to to you know he didn't transform his game but but adjust his game to the point where it's like okay we're going to do speed and skill, no problem. I'll still, you know, and yeah, he's still six, nine. It's still hard to go around the guy, but, you know, by the time they're playing, you know, I remember in the Leafs had Kessel, like, you just take Kessel out of the lineup against the Bruins. There's right enough. Kessel was unstoppable against everyone else, but against Char, forget it. Like, there's just, this guy, like, however you want it to play it. Like, no, no problem. You want to, you want to be

rough and tough and play old school hockey? This guy's, he'll throw you over the glass. Yeah, he's, like, He's the atomic bomb. Like there's no, you know, you don't have an answer for this guy. I promise you. You don't want to do that? You want to play speed and skill and everything? Okay. He'll play it that way too.

Yeah, he's so fucking good. And, you know, like, it was one of those things where you hated to kind of see him go to Washington and the Islanders just because it's like, you don't want to be Willie Mays on the Mets or whatever that last. Going back to the Islanders was okay. But when I saw his Instagram post and, like, he announced his retirement, then he had, like, pictures of him in each uniform. And I was clicking through. And I saw, like, the Washington. And I was like, what?

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I guess. Sure. I had very little memory of him going to Washington. And, uh, I think, uh, rightly so. Yeah.

Would be, uh, based on the quality of play he turned in there at age 43, you know. Mm-hmm. And hey, geez, this is one of, are we now, this might be true. We might be out of NHL players who are older than me. Like now that Mike Smith is LTIR retired. I've got to look this up. Talk for a second. Oh boy, that hurts.

That hurts. Because I know people had said that he was, Char was the last player to play in the 90s, play at Maple Leaf Gardens and there was up and play against Wayne Gretzky, assuming Joe Thornton doesn't come back. Right. He was also the last player to lose a playoff series to the Leafs. So he's got that going for him, too. I'm holding out hope that Andy Green can maybe make it happen one more time.

Yep. Is he still playing? I don't think so. What about Mark Giordano? You okay with him? Oh, Gio might be Mark Gerdano. Mark Gerdano. No, he's nine months younger than me.

Oof. Yeah, I don't like to know about this. There's got to be some old backup goalie. somewhere. Yeah, I just, I just looked at skaters. I mean, look, Andy Green played, played almost 70 games last year. So, okay. I can, I can maybe hang my hat on that one.

He's the last skater. I've been there a while, so it's, uh, yeah, he's the last skater. Not fun. Let's see here. Oh, Craig Anderson. Hoo! Okay. Craig Anderson, long may you rain.

I hope you're in the NHL for another 30, 40 years. That would be great for. me. But he's the last one. He's the last guy standing for me. This sucks. Like, Mark Andre Fleury is like almost two years younger than me. Everybody's like, Mark Andre Fleury, like the insanely old guy. Yeah. Yeah. How did you think I felt listening to how old Chara was every year, like, you know, this Joe Thornton, wow. And also the fact that at least Charra had the, had, it was, was nice enough to look kind of like an athlete and not, you know, Joe Thornton looking like a fat old man right up until it's time to get on there.

But yeah, okay. Yeah. Well, this was a revelation I didn't really want to wrap my head around this morning. But here we are. It's too late now. It's got unpleasant. The other big piece of news that came out yesterday. And was that, there might have been one other thing.

But Nathan McKinnon gets a big extension. Eight years, $12.6 million. Highest paid player in the league by cap. pit. Not really a surprise, I guess. No. I mean, not a surprise, but there was, yeah. You know, there's always this kind of, well, is a guy going to take less?

Like, I mean, he deserves it. He's underpaid even now. See, people are saying that I, I mean, insofar as most NHL players are underpaid. Most superstar NHL players are underpaid. Yeah. But, you know, should he be getting more money than Connor McDavid knowing, you know, what we know? Yes, given that he signed his contract like four years after. Yeah, sure.

But you know what I mean. Like, every- From that sense, yes. If Carter McDavid is the baseline, this is a reasonable contract. I think this is a fair contract. I saw people going, this is a bargain. No, he's the highest paid player in the league. It is not a bargain.

Yeah. He's really good. He's not that fucking good. But the thing is you look at like, you know, I think if you're an avalanche fan, before this contract gets signed, you're looking at the fact that, you know, he was on the very cheap contract for years and years. And I imagine it was completely sick of hearing about that. We always talk about these guys, oh, this great contract. And this is why they can win Stanley Cups. And what a wonderful guy that he took less.

And I'm sure these guys every now and then are talking to other agents. It's like, hey, man, on my next contract, can I not hear about for years? Right. How ripped off we got. Yeah, I would say that everybody at this point on the avalanche, maybe, maybe Miko Ranton is the one guy where I'm like, oh, he's clearly like a little overpaid. As much as I think Miko Rantinens. Even though maybe a little.

Kill McCar is already just, good God. Insanely underpaid. Yeah. Forever. You want to talk about the guy who should be making $12.6 million on the Colorado Avalanche. Cal McCar is that guy. Right. But yeah, I think that for the most part, everybody on the avalanche is fairly paid.

They're, you know, obviously like Eric Johnson is the one outlier. And I saw people going, well, they basically gave them all of Eric Johnson's money. That's true. They did. Math-wise, that's true. Especially this contract starts next season, not this coming one. So you go one more year at six. point three.

But I don't know. I guess my, excuse me, my only thing is they got to resign Bowen Byram and they got a, and not this, not next season, but the one after that, they got to resign Devon Taves. Or maybe they wouldn't want to just because he's, you know, older or whatever. He's like going to be 20.

30. Almost by the time that new contract is up. But like, it just, the abs have almost $70 million. committed to 13 players for next season. And again, I think this is a perfectly good contract. Everybody going, oh, he took a fucking discount. Relax.

Well, I don't think he took a huge discount. When I say it's a bargain, it's a bargain based on where players should be. And it's a bargain based on like, you know, Austin Matthews is up next and there's some other guys. I got to say, when I first heard about this and I was thinking, I was like, okay, so they got him, they got McCarr. they got ranting in and they got Landisog. Finally, some other team has a big four that is now past the Maple Leafs. We won't have to hear it. And then I added it up and I'm like, crap, the Leafs still paid more for their four guys.

That's really funny. The Avalanche stage. Which made me feel very sad. Yeah, understandably so. Because as much as like there are really good players on the Toronto Maple Leafs, you know, who they don't have is like Cal McCar. No, they don't. They don't. And I feel like Colorado has had more recent playoff success,

but I might have to look that up just to check. Speaking of which, Barry from Defector yesterday pointed out that with Zedano Chara and P.K. Suban now retired, the Leafs have never beaten anyone in the league in the playoffs, the entire NHL. That was both very funny, but also like fans of other teams where you're doing the whole, like, how does this affect the Leafs? Joe, like that's why that's a thing. That's not a Leafs fan. That's somebody else taking big news of the day

and figuring out a way to make it about the Leafs. We don't do that. We're quite happy when you don't talk about us lately. I wouldn't go that far. You can just not skip us. I will say, though, that that's different from how does this affect the Leafs, only insofar as it is purely making fun of the Maple Leafs.

This isn't like, oh, they traded Nils Lundquist to the stars, how does this affect Rasmus Sandin? You know, like, that's the take that's a good question, though. Okay, let me, I've got some thoughts on that. The next 45 minutes will be all about this. Yeah. You know what? I didn't have that written down, but we can briefly talk about that trade.

I don't really care. Not the Leafs aspect. I don't give a shit about that, obviously. Yes. But let's briefly talk about that trade on Nils Lundquist, you know, 20, one 22 year old, uh, strong defenseman prospect.

Everybody thought he was going to be really good. Uh, and much like all the other, uh, Rangers, really good prospects, uh, as like fucking get me out of this organization.

Right. Which, you know, not a terrible problem to have if you're the Rangers because, uh, it's, a lot of it is because you've got talent blocking these guys. But I,

I think that, Rangers blue line. And I'm, not sure they have talent blocking these guys is the problem. Yeah. I think a lot of people may have heard about this trade and been like, they got a first round draft pick for this guy. Now it is a, it's not just lottery protected.

It's what, top 10 protected, I think? Top 10, yeah. Yep. Even that's not bad. I mean, it's not impossible to imagine Dallas missing the playoffs in that like 11th through. Yeah. Yeah.

So. 100%. For a guy that you invested a late first-round pick on a few years ago, that's not a bad, not bad to flip him for an asset that, especially if you're the Rangers, if you're a team that thinks you're going to be contending for a cup, that's an asset you can use at the deadline potentially.

For sure. Yeah. And like I think the Rangers, much like Bradshaw living earlier this summer, were in a situation where it's like, there's not like really a good outcome here like giving up on a guy who's much more NHL ready than whoever you would get with that pick or to your point like whoever you would overpay for with that pick later right um but they did as well as they reasonably could

have with a guy demanding a trade basically and this is a guy who played 25 games for them last year so it's not like oh man I mean this to state the obvious this is a This is orders of magnitude less than Matthew Kachuk saying, I want it. And you're like, oh, but you're a key piece of our team. How do we? This is kind of like, all right. And I, again, I was a little bit surprised that they were able to get that first round pick back for him, given that they didn't seem to have a lot of leverage. But we only need one team out there to, I don't know.

It's an interesting move for Dallas. You know, it's not like you're trading a first round pick for some veterans. guy to come in, but it's, I don't know. I think it's a very solid bet for Dallas. You like it? Okay. I think Lundquist, everybody kind of agrees. It's like a really good player, even at his age and, you know, obviously he. And two more years on his entry-level deal, so you're not.

Yeah, that's, right. So, yeah, I think he's a guy that everybody's like, I totally get why there's a lot of hype here. He's um, you know, he's not like big or anything, but like he's just a guy who covers a lot of the ice like you can skate and that kind of stuff.

Um, what's that, what sides he play again? Uh, right, he plays the right side. Uh, they,

you know, uh, barely have any right defensemen who are, like, Yanni Hawkenpah is like their second best right handed defenseman. That's not where you want to be, you know, like,

as, you know, I, I think Yonie Hawkenpa is fine. But like, if you're a team that it has playoff aspirations for the next two years, because

you don't really have any other choice, you know. Yeah, you're selling me. Yeah, and also the other thing is, the Rangers don't really have a history of necessarily developing

great young defense, Adam Fox, but like he didn't they didn't draft him. They didn't have him. in the system for years and years. He just was like, oh, I want to play for the Rangers, you know. Whereas, you know, Dallas stars, Mirro Heiskenen and Essel and Del, like, these are guys who they drafted and turned into good NHL defensemen and even very good with Heisken. So I think maybe Dallas can talk themselves into, we can turn this around more than the

Rangers could have. That's fair. Yeah. I like the trade for all involved. And as J.D. Burke from elite prospects tweeted when all these rumors came out, we got to stop letting the Rangers get high-end prospects until we can figure out why they can't turn any of them into high-end NHL players. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

I mean, there's really no point even having it be a top-10 protected pick, because, I mean, the Rangers would just trade them for years. Yeah, it's not like the Rangers are going to turn them into some superstar anyway. So, yeah. That's, so there you go, folks. We're talking effusive praise about retired players and a trade that Ryan thinks is good for both sides. That's right. It's a new era at Puck Soup.

All positivity, baby. When we come back from this break, we're going to talk about why every team in the league is good. All right. Yeah. Jack. This week's episode of Puck. Puck Soup is brought to you by athletic greens. And folks, what's the thing I always say when we talk about athletic greens? That's right. I started taking athletic greens because

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Hey, gang, yeah, so we're back from break and we see. said we were going to be positive, and I lied about that. We're, of course, not going to be positive. There's a lot of bad stuff going on in the league right now, including, I guess let's start with Vanderkane in Edmonton. The Sharks basically gave him $2.5 million, and now he doesn't have to play for them ever again. Yes.

And they do it with no cap hit, which is... Retroactive cap hit, I believe, yeah. Which is no cap hit. It's retroactive to last year. So essentially it doesn't affect them in any way, which is that was the part that I think we were all interested in. Because, you know, no reasonable person thought he was going to go back to San Jose. I was hoping for it, though. That would have been really funny.

Although I was hoping that like some arbitrator would just send him back to San Jose. But the problem with that is, as somebody pointed out, that would just result in San Jose, having to trade him back to Edmonton and potentially eating salary and making him even more of a discount for the oilers. So instead, they just make up the difference on what he lost by having his shark's contract ended. And it gets retroactively applied to their cap. So if you're the sharks, this is pretty much the best possible outcome. You don't care about the money. If you're a Sharks fan, you don't care about the money. That's the owner's cash.

Who cares? It doesn't affect your cap. You're out of the contract. You're done with them. You move on. Yep. And then, yeah, it obviously doesn't affect the oilers either. And that's what they want because they want a guy who can, like,

score 40 goals. Yeah. And now they have them for sure. Yeah. And now we all see, you know, he clearly, this is a guy who would pretty much every NHL stop has gotten himself into trouble or done something. Outstate is welcome, sure. Yeah, which doesn't seem to take him very long.

But then when he went to Edmonton, he was on his best behavior because it was, this was his show me contract, his one-year deal, go play next to Connor McDavid, and show everyone that you can be a positive contributor to a team. And he did that. he played great. So now we see now that he's got the security of a longer-term contract, I guess we start the clock again and we see how it goes. Yeah.

The other thing that happened with the Oilers before, the really bad thing that happened with the Oilers, was they asked Carr and David, hey, what do you think of this hockey candidate stuff? He's like, yeah, everybody, it's bad for everyone. And I feel really bad for everybody involved. And it's like, well, hold on a second. But I'm still very proud to represent hockey Canada.

And this is a classic case where a guy not wanting to say anything fucked up. Yeah. You know? And again, because when they, I mean, it was very reminiscent of when they signed a Vander Cain. And he just gave his kind of, it is what it is comment. I like the Zach Heiman quote that was basically, I can't remember what it was exactly, but it's all paraphrase. but it was something like, if he's on our team, he's on our team. He's like, now that's how you don't say anything.

Salute, brother. You really nailed that one. There is a skill. Hey, if I got to play with this guy, I guess I got to play with him. I just show up to work. Mm-hmm. So. But yeah, the bad, the really bad thing with the Oilers is they gave a PTO to Jake for Tannett.

Yep. A guy who was found not guilty in a sexual assault. I can't remember what the exact charge was, but basically a sexual assault. Criminal trial that caused him to be released by the Vancouver Canucks last year. Two years ago? Yeah. So he had, yeah, because he last year had played in the KHL. Right, yes.

He had his trial. He was found. not guilty. We all know hopefully by now that not guilty does not mean innocent, but you know, there is the argument to be made that if you've been through the process

that you should be allowed to move on. But that said, there is the potential for a civil component of this to follow. So not necessarily, you know, not something where you say, hey, the book is closed

and everybody moves on, that's not necessarily true. Yeah. And so obviously everybody was very upset with the Oilers for doing this, even like the people who are usually like, well, look, I mean, the Edmonton Oilers. Not everybody, because, you know, we did, Daniel at the Athletic wrote a piece saying, like, hey, the Oilers are getting roasted and they deserve it,

and there were more Euler fans than you would think who don't seem to feel that this is any kind of issue. Obviously, those people are wrong, but, like, I kind of tend to leave out the opinions of the fans of the team that just signed the bad guy. Yeah. You know? Because those guys are like, well, if you can play, you know, I don't care. And, like, some people are just unreachable on this kind of thing.

And, like, I don't obviously, like, condone it or whatever, but I accept that that's just going to be part of what happens. but between Evander Cain and Jake Rattan you can kind of go oh it seems like the Oilers are developing a little bit of a I don't know what the not like process or whatever

but you know what I mean like there's a little bit of a pattern forming here where they're like oh these guys who are accused of like really bad stuff we can get them cheap and that's good Yeah. They have found a market efficiency. Yeah. And look, I mean, there's an argument to be made that once you've hitched your wagon to a van der Kaine, you don't have any. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and then now there's the counter argument. Obviously, there's the counter argument to be made that you shouldn't be going into business with these guys at all. But even if you are, you know, the sort of person. who recognizes and maybe even accepts that this is pro sports and you're always going to overlook things to get a star player or even a useful player, you kind of look at this and go, why? Like, this guy stunk in the KHL. Yeah.

So, like, I saw a lot of people understandably saying, now's not the time to bring up, like, Jake Retan's stats. because like that's kind of overlooking all the other bad stuff. Right. You know? Mm-hmm. And I totally understand that. But I think the reason it is somewhat relevant to bring up his stats in this case is to go,

the Oilers are sticking their neck out for a guy who's like maybe an HL, NHL Twitter. Like they're like, they're, they're being so flaky. about just kind of in much the same way hockey Canada has in recent months been like yeah we actually are like trying to project power despite all the bad stuff that we did yeah like it I'm not saying that we should applaud teams for saying we will not sign Jake Furtan and we should point out it's a it's a tryout so he could still sign with any team but you know I'm not saying we should applaud teams for passing on on a fifth line guy.

But, yeah, it certainly does seem like the Oilers have just made a, made a decision to go in that direction. And, and, you know what, it's, look, it's, we know, like, this is, this is, and again, like, you know, Evander Kane was accused of some awful things, never tried and convicted. And, you know, so there's, there's, and, and we're going to go through this again. this season with Patrick Kane and trade, potential trade

there. And the Oilers are going to be it on Patrick Kane and maybe this is going to just be par for the course for them, but you know, who else will probably be it on Patrick Kane is your favorite team. So it's kind of like, you know, I think the Oilers deserve a lot of criticism here, but it's sort of like

you want to look at other fan bases and go, hey man, maybe just keep some of this energy when you find out your team's in the middle of the Patrick Kane sweepstakes, and suddenly at that point, you're going, well, you know, it was a long time ago and this and that. And, you know, on down the list of however many other players. I don't know. Yeah.

But again, the idea that you would kind of put all that aside for a guy who can score 40 goals to put up 80 points or whatever. That sucks. I get it. I get it. We live in the real world. we get it and I don't don't condone it don't agree with it but like I can see the logic behind

if you're one of the 200 hockey men how you would think like this but when you're doing it for Jake Vortan and it feels like you're doing it for a very kind of different reason yeah you know and especially since they like there were reports a week or two ago that this

PTO was going to happen yes and there was sort of a you know an outcry of backlash then and then it didn't happen for a little while. And then it did. So, I mean, it's not even like they're surprised. I mean, you can't imagine they possibly could be, but some people are just have such a blind spot.

But they weren't even surprised because they got the backlash preview already. And they were just fine with it. So, like I say, it's, we're always talking about who's going to find the next market inefficiency. And I, maybe this is teams like the Oilers, because I'm not going to act like the Oilers are the only team that, that would do this sort of thing. You know, they're the teams that have figured out,

hey, let's go get guys that have been accused of awful things, and we can get them cheaper. Yeah, sports. It's, it's really, man, it sucks. I don't have anything else to say about it. Other than like, I can't imagine why they would think this is worth it. That's what I keep coming back to. And again, to your point, this is only a PTO.

And the thing is that so many times in this league, teams sign players to PTOs, in part to maybe drive the price down on a regular season contract, but also because like Antoine Roussel just signed. to PTO with the Flyers, right? You think Antoine, as bad as the Flyers are going to be, they do not have room for an Antoine Roussel type, right? And the thing is that in the NHL preseason, you have to have a certain number of guys who are like,

check X number of boxes to be NHL veterans that play in your exhibition games. And a lot of these guys get brought in just to check that box so that they don't have to use a player they actually want to use in an exhibition game where, could get hurt or whatever, you know. And so, like, even if the oilers are like, look, we just needed a guy who wanted to, who, why, why is this guy? There are so many guys who are unsigned right now who are better than him.

Yeah. Who check that box without pissing everybody off and projecting this kind of nastiness that the oilers seem to want to project. I guess the last thing I want to say on this, and then we can move on to something else, is. for sure. Whenever something like this comes up, there's always an element of it that you hear from fans or sometimes media and it may be a way of thinking of the team itself. it. Like, well, what are you going to do? You're going to be an oiler fan, but this is what's going to make you not be a fan? Are you going to not go to games? Or you're going to not buy a jersey? Because they signed a guy to a PTO. And the answer to that is almost always, no, of course not. But I've said this before. Like, having, you know, being a fan, having that loyalty, having that pride in a team, it's not a switch that goes on and off. It's a dial. And at some point, and maybe even as a fan, you know, you know, you may not realize it, but at some point that dial goes past a point of no return. And you don't know what it's going to be or what adds up to it. But stuff like this, for some fans, does move that dial.

And boy, it's once it moves past that point or no return, it sometimes doesn't come back. And I would think more about this kind of thing if I was somebody who was putting together. an NHL team from the perspective from from the big picture perspective not just you know focused on who's going to be my fourth line guy but like you know trying to think what am I trying to build here what do I want what kind of sustainable relationship do I want to have

with a fan base man I would I there's there's not one single person out there who's going to cancel their season's tickets probably based on this but it's not a switch it's a dial and I think we forget that yeah for sure and you know like chicago has found that out in recent years big time yeah anyway uh let's talk about a different uh canadian team the winnipeg jets

last week they announced and the last week i believe like friday they announced uh Blake Wheeler is no longer the captain of the Winnipeg Jets and if nobody's the captain of the Winnipeg Jets no uh what were your thoughts on that this is this kind of take you by surprise at all yeah it did um and especially in that you know they they're not replacing him uh this isn't a situation where it's you know a passing of a torch and and you know my first thought was okay maybe he was in on this maybe this is something where he even went to them and said we need to change the mix and it's not he was disappointed uh you know blake wheeler made that clear this is a guy being stripped of the captaincy which you don't

see happened very often. No. We saw in San Jose a couple of times. Thornton and Marlowe, I think, were the last ones that I can remember. Marlowe got stripped of the captaincy? Yeah, didn't he? Marlowe also had it for a while.

Oh, no, I think, I thought they just kind of named Joe Thornton captain because you know, for the reason that sometimes you just change your captain. Am I wrong about this? I remember it as being yeah, Marry, this was like

back in like the 2000, yeah, Patrick Marlowe is no longer Sharks captain without elaborating he said the team's captaincy and two alternate captain C's

are up for grab. As of now, nobody's our captain. So pretty similar situation. Yeah, 2009, it says. So 2009, that's going back a while.

And very weird that it happened and then he played for the team for another decade. But it's rare. And, uh, uh,

I think what's unusual about Winnipeg is this was one of the teams that going into the offseason, you went, okay, they got to shake it up. They've got to do something. It hasn't worked. They looked like they were on the cusp of something really big in 2018. It's been backward steps ever since. The mix isn't working. They got to do something. And then Mark Schifley wanted out.

Pierre-Lubert Wals wants to go to Montreal. You can't run it back with this. Allegedly, yeah. Allegedly. But like even, you know, there were rumors all summer that, like, Wheeler wanted out or that something needed. Or that they're, you know, there were going to be big trades in Winnipeg. If you had to pick a team and say they're going to make some major trades, Winnipeg would be very close to the top of your list. And then they didn't do anything.

They changed their coach. But like, they changed their coach. But, you know, which we knew they won a new coach. They went after Barry Trots, apparently through, you know, through everything at him, but didn't get them. they settled on Rick Bonas, you know, sorry to, for that choice of words, but that's what they did. 100% what they did. So this feels a little bit to me like we couldn't make any roster moves. So this is our change.

This is how we're going to change things. It's, and it's kind of like, I don't know. I mean, whatever the leader, obviously, guys like you and me have no idea what's going on in that room. We have no idea how people feel about Blake Wheeler. we have no idea how, you know, some, maybe the players don't love this guy or maybe they do love this guy. And sometimes that can be a problem too, especially when it's a, you know, a veteran closing out on the downside of their career. I don't, this has all been portrayed as a Rick Bonas decision. I don't really know how Rick Bonas can have a ton of insight into what's going on in the room, having never been there.

Although obviously he can have people talking to him. it was a weird situation. It's never a great look. Like we just said, you know, Marlowe and Thornton, it can happen for a team and, you know, the relationship can remain okay and survive it. One year on his deal? Right? What does he have?

Is it only that? Let's see here. Let's find the... Two years. This year and next year. Okay. But who knows? I mean, this isn't like Joe Thornton where it's like,

Oh, he's like, you know, 31 and we're stripping of the captaincy and, you know, he's still signed for another four or five years or whatever. He's, he's, Wheeler is 36 years old and will, uh, and will be playing maybe two more years for the Winnipeg Jets. Yeah. I tend to err on the side of fewer than that. But, but again, like if this is a guy, he's, he's very popular in Winnipeg. it would be one thing to say we're moving the captaincy to somebody younger. We've got someone else in mind.

This is, you know. Kyle Connor. The Leafs maybe end up doing that with like Austin Matthews and John Tavares. Okay, that's one thing. To just say like we're replacing you with nobody is, I don't know. Again, there could be any number of things going on behind the scenes we don't know about. But we can only judge based on.

on what we do know, and based on what we do know, this feels like kind of a change for the sake of change after a team that was supposed to change, didn't change much of anything. Yeah, no. The thing that I keep thinking about with this is, you know, we've heard, oh, you know, Philadelphia, there were problems in the room. We've heard that plenty over the course of this summer. I feel like we've maybe kind of heard it hinted at with Winnipeg, but I go back to, you know, even Dustin Buflin being like, you know what, fuck this.

I'm leaving $14 million on the table. I'm done. And then their coach quitting in the middle of, just quitting in the middle of last season. And then immediately going to another team the second the season ended, basically. Yep. Yeah.

And all these different players wanting out of Winnipeg, Linae and Truba and, you know, we can say, oh, well, they all had their own different reasons. It's like, well, this is one of the only teams this is happening to in the entire league. That there's just like this exodus of talent over like a four-year window or whatever. And I got to think there's something to it more than just like, you know, it's really fucking cold in Winnipeg. Yep. Maybe.

I got to think. Like, that's the only thing I can think of is like, as we say, the vibes are insanely bad there. in that room, it specifically is what I'm talking about. I don't know that for sure, but that is just like, the more that happens here, and they're like,

oh yeah, this guy's out, this guy just quit. This guy demanded a trade, maybe demanded a trade. This guy is going to, you know, leave a hole in the side of the building

shaped exactly like him. The second his contract is up. We got to strip this guy of the captaincy. There's something fucked up going on there, man. And we've heard, like,

you know, the older guys on that team are super demanding and they don't, uh, you know, let young guys, uh, whatever, like do what young guys in the league maybe normally would do or whatever. They have it, they have it run their way and it's their way or the highway, you know, all that shit. I don't know. Maybe, maybe it seems like this is getting to the root of the problem in a way that, uh, nothing else really has.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. But again, to your point, you don't strip a very popular player of the captaincy without there being kind of a deeper reason that we're just never going to, maybe not never, but we're not going to know anytime soon.

Yep. That's fair. I mean, I don't know. Rick Bonas has been around for a million years. I'm sure he's not doing stuff for no reason at all. Yeah, absolutely. It just, it, it caps off a strange offseason. Like, I just didn't do anything.

Yeah. They signed Sam Gagne, that's about it. Yeah. And it's not playing great in Winnipeg. By the way, even media there are like, what is going on? But, yeah. They got some good young players that people should, I think, be excited about. But, you know, I don't know how you enter this season with like a lot

of enthusiasm for what they could. Because like last year people had a lot of enthusiasm, including me, um, because I kind of figured like they approved the defense. And Connor Hellebuck, uh, the year before that wasn't like great. And this year he was like merely a top 10 goalie and they were awful.

You know? And maybe, maybe the coach quitting halfway through the season doesn't help. But you know what I mean. Like they were just, they weren't even, they weren't good under, uh,

uh, uh, what's the name, clo, uh, Why am I flying on the... Claude Noel? Claude Noel, yeah.

No, is that right? And then Paul Maurice was... Paul Newell's way back when, yeah. No, that's what I meant. It's Paul Maurice, yeah. I don't know why I was thinking Claudeau, but maybe I was just thinking. They hadn't changed much to this Claude Noel.

Yeah. But yeah. You know, I don't think they're a playoff team next year, but they do have some really good players who could absolutely go off and prove me wrong, but... this kind of feels like the first step in a in a longer process. But yeah, I don't know.

Do you want to talk about Jersey ads real quick? Everybody mad about Jersey ads again? No, I mean, I feel like we kind of did this when we were all mad about helmet ads and then the jersey ads. They're a little bigger than I thought. It is mildly funny that the Leafs have a milk ad that is, you know, I'm glad we all. What if I said this one, though? Like milk was a bad choice anchor man. Oh, I haven't seen that gift at all.

Wow. Okay, and then if they make it to the playoffs, what if I do the Simpsons joke of Malk? Mulk? Or milk duds? Milk duds. Man, can you even say that one? That feels too mean.

That's wild. People are so funny. The only thing I want to say about, jersey ads is I cannot believe the Montreal Canadiens didn't say to RBC Yeah, this has to be the same color

as the fucking rest of the jersey. What are you doing? They just left a blue patch on a red jersey. Like, you know, the sacred sweater or whatever they call it and Montreal, right? They're just like, yeah, we're putting a blue patch on there.

It's like all the other ones are color matched to what the rest of the T's shirt. Like logo design looks like. Yeah. What are you doing? My only objection, not even objection, my only concern when it comes to ads. Because look, like, we plaster ads on everything. This league is well past the point where we can pretend that they're not trying to maximize

revenue. This is a way to do it. If the NBA is doing it, there was no way the NHL was ever going to do it. The only thing, and it's the same concern that I think a lot of fans have, is your mind immediately goes to Europe where they're plastered with ads on it. and the uniforms look ridiculous, the NASCAR thing, right? Yeah. So, you know, is one the end of the world?

No, I'm fine with that. But what about two? Well, then what about three? And because I saw a quote where, and I can't remember if it was Betman or someone for the league, or maybe it was someone else. But they were like, hey, you know, they're not going to go crazy. They didn't go crazy with the boards and the ice. And I'm like, I'm old enough to remember when there were no ads on the boards in the ice.

Right. And then they started to pop up. And if you showed me back then what an NHO game looks like now, I would have said, oh, they did go crazy. They have plastered ads everywhere. Yeah. So that's kind of it. Like it really feels like for all the talk you hear about,

no, we're not going to, we're never going to do the Europe thing. You're sitting there going, yeah, you will. Slowly but surely, you'll kind of boil the frog. We won't really notice. It's more, like, I don't want to say slippery slope necessarily, but like, you know, it will be like that Simpson's joke of like Fox turned into a hardcore pornography channel. So gradually I never even noticed, you know, where it's like, I don't think about the ads on

the boards because I grew up with ads on the boards, you know, like I'm, I'm not like you. I don't remember seeing Babe Die play. So I don't. He was good. He was really good. That's what they tell me. but like I just have no memory of like you know even even ads on the ice like I feel like I remember going like oh there's a bud light ad on the ice I don't have that in college hockey which was the brand of hockey I was more familiar with right but now go to a college hockey rink there's fucking ads all over the ice maybe or at least in the neutral zone like it is in the NHL and it's one of those things where somebody's going to have to do it first again I don't think the NHL will be the leader on what if we put two ads on the shirt?

But the NBA puts two ads on the shirt? Yep. Well, you know, I think the NHL would be a lot more inclined to do so. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I just like, I guess my thing is you can barely notice them on TV if they are color matched to the jersey, right? Again, you're going to note that the RBC one on the Canadian jersey is going to fucking pop off the screen real big. You're going to notice that one.

But most of them are more tasteful is not the right word, but subtle, I guess. You know? The only thing I'd be mad about if I was a fan of a team is like I'm going to buy a fucking Nick Suzuki jersey and they're like, oh yeah, you're going to get the fucking RBC patch. Well, apparently you don't. I thought I saw that that when you buy a jersey, you will not get the ad unless you request it. I guess some people are completionists and whatever. You know what?

Toss a couple of milks on there for me. Yeah. Let's see what happened. We need to be like capturing the personal information of the people who are like, I want the ad. Tag them and bag them. Just like they walk out of the Maple Leafs Pro Shop with the milk thing on their jersey. They immediately get black bag dragged

into a black van and take it to an offshore CIA site. to be questioned, what is wrong with you, dog? Dude, what is happening here? What's going on? Yeah, that's my only thing with it. If you're not going to get that on your jersey that you buy, what do you give a shit? I guess is my thing with it.

Because, you know, you see kids walking around with, like, fly emirates on their shirts, on their soccer shirts in Boston or whatever. And you're like, I don't really All this, man. Yeah. Again, this is like, it's sort of like we talked last week in one of the bonus episodes about like celebrations.

It's kind of like, you know, I don't think it's a big deal, but I can picture it being a big, like, can I picture an ad on a Leaf jersey that would make me go, oh, that's gross, I really don't like that. Sure. It's not, or a number of that or whatever. So it's kind of like, so far, it's not so bad. I didn't notice the helmet ones at all.

Like, it, that barely registered with it. me so maybe this will be like that but I just we know where this is going but I guess you just kind of shrug your shoulders and say that this is this is what sports is yep um all right why don't we take another break and then we'll be back with uh just a couple more items and then I have devised a wicked game for my friend Sean who okay we'll be right back it's my kids are back at school, hockey season's about to start, vacation is over, all of which basically adds up to, I need a lot more coffee right now than I normally do. And luckily, I know where to get that coffee. Let me tell you about our sponsor, trade coffee. It's a coffee

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One last bit of news here, the Philadelphia Flyers announced that Sean Couturee is out with a herniated disc. Might be a season ender. We don't know yet. The only reason this is interesting to me is the Flyers, you know, we all think they're going to be bad this year. I don't think anybody's under any real illusion about that. this might

fuck up their thing of like, we're going to be in games. We're going to be hard to, you're going to know you're playing against the Philadelphia Flyers. You know,

because that's the thing. It's like, they bring in John Tortorella. They're like, okay, we're guaranteed to go to 25 overtimes this year. Right.

Yeah. You know? And not having their number one center kind of torpedoes that to me, where they might actually not be competitive. Because I'm looking at the depth chart right now on on cap friendly you know who they say is the the number four center on the the philadelphia flyers is this guy patrick brown that's a real guy for sure well hey wow hey

that guy played for boston college he had one pretty good season did he now yeah he that's like when you you're playing like a video game or computer game and you don't put enough guys on the roster and it's like do you want us to just auto generate yeah four years from now ea The EA NHL game is auto generating like yurkey Ovechkin. Yes, yeah. And then, but then also there's just like 15 guys named Patrick Brown in the same draft class. And you're like, oh, okay, sure, yeah, great. Yeah.

So that's a guy you've never heard of. I believe, let's see, how many, how many career NHL games for him? since 2014-15-77. So, yeah, he's their number four center next season. I don't like that for them. It's going to make it real hard to sell tickets. Yeah. The one guy that everybody's like, yeah, look, the team's not going to be that good next year,

but at least we can go see Sean Couturee play. He's really fun to watch. I mean, I'm not in any way trying to make light of serious injuries and, you know, the rehab and the comeback. But there is, when you heard may or may not miss the whole season, don't you kind of feel like the second, unspoken second half of that sentence is, depending on how close to Connor Bedard territory we are? I mean, that and also, like, you know, what are we going to hurry this guy back for?

Like, what would be the point, you know? So, yeah. So now, so now a number one center on the Philadelphia Flyers, Kevin Hayes. good luck with all that. Have fun Flyers fans. Sorry, guys. That really isn't good at all. Let us go into

the game. People have been asking, what are they going to do who he play for? The fun game everyone likes. Well, folks, that's a little closer to the season. Some roster decisions are yet to be made. So we're not going to do that yet. However, one thing that everybody has

And, you know, it's been locked in for a little while. List of NHL coaches, right? Mm-hmm. How many change this summer? A lot. I thought I saw, like, it's been like 13 in the last year or something like that. 10. 10 since May.

Wow. And that does not include Woodcroft, San Luis. Right. And Bruce Boudreau, who all got hired. mid-season last year. So almost a third of the league turned over their coaching situation this summer. So I'm just going to, we're just going to go down the list here. And I'm going to say, Sean, who coach them?

Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's start with the San Jose Sharks. Who coach them? Who coach them right now? They did the very weird thing where they fired their coaches like two months into the off season, and they high.

hired David Quinn, I believe. Wow, he knows it. This game might not be as interesting as I thought, folks. Well, no, the reason I'll be a little bit better on this than normal is I just kind of did my first off-season round-up thing. You son of a bitch. God damn it. Who could have seen that coming? Yes.

Well, I guess I asked because I saw this next team. Someone was like, oh, this guy's the new coach. And I was like, oh, right. that guy. I forgot about that. The Detroit Red Wings. Who coached? A new guy whose name I don't remember.

He's a rookie head coach, but he's also, like, very old. And it's not Lane Lamber because that's the other guy that is in that situation. But he's got,

he's another one of those guys has like a fake French name. Yeah, Derek Lalonde is a fellow's name. Longtime assistant in Tampa, where I think he might have met Steve Eisenman. Probably.

Yeah. Uh, let's see here. Chicago. Who coached? Luke Richardson, former Leaf. Yeah. Oh, I, you know what? There you go.

I should have known that. And a guy that I'm excited to, I'm happy for him because he's been like an assistant and a minor league guy forever. He was in Ottawa, was up for their job. And is kind of in a, uh, it's, it's very fascinating to be a rookie coach on a blatantly tanking team. on the one hand there's no pressure but on the other hand like what if he's really good at this and they're like hey luke knock it off please i think i think uh i think move number one there is

oh shit like we we won like six games out of ten to start the year yeah hey patrick and jonathan how would you guys feel about waving your no move for the closet just instantly yeah at the first sign of winning two games in a row drop a lego on the dressing room floor and when patrick kate steps on it you're like oh that looked we might have have to shut you down for a month. L-T-I-R city. Dallas Stars, who coached them? They hired the Knights guy, Pete DeBore. That's right, yeah.

Vegas, who coached them? They got Cassidy from Boston, which is a good. That's a good one, because I'm fascinated to see that because he is the guy who's like, he's like the one coach who seems to have a demonstrated ability to make goals. goalies better. And so they put it on a team with no one. Boy, if any team needed it this year, huh? Well, them in Toronto.

I'll tell you right now, man, if I had to do like a preseason bet on Jack Adams, if they get halfway decent goaltending from their no-name goaltenders and make the playoffs. Hey, man. Come on now. Sure he does. Good old. You've heard of that guy. Oh, yeah.

But yeah, no. I think I saw a quote with. with Cassidy earlier this summer where he's like yeah I told Jack like for both of us we like need to actually prove that we're not bad. Yeah.

Respect. But yeah, one last one one last one here. Boston Bruins, speaking of Bruce Cassidy. Boston Bruins who coached them? So if you had asked me this three days ago I would not have known because I, when I was writing my Bruins thing

I wrote like about how weird it was that they fired Bruce Cassidy and, you know, this is a great coach, but hey, sometimes even great coaches were out they're welcome. And then when it was time to write about who they hired, I realized I had no idea. So I had to look it up. And it's Jim Montgomery making his comeback after the situation in Dallas. Again, could be a good news story, but a pretty tough one to head into because you're replacing a good coach and you're taking over a team where half the good players are

hurt for the first three months. And there's this insane amount of pressure To make the playoffs and like You know one last you know the last you know They're doing the last dance Yeah the last dance They've got those contracts with Creachian Burgeon around where they're kicking the cap hit to next year So it's pretty clear that this is

Yeah that's a tough one But you can you can root for the guy I think Yeah And then this is not a new hire This is this is a man who's in his second year but the Columbus Blue Jackets who coached them. Do you know this man's... Yeah, it's the Brad Larson.

Brad... He got there. He got there, folks. Yes. He did it. Yeah, did really well. Again, if I caught you a week ago, maybe things were a little different. And I can also tell you that if you, like, I still could not tell you the name of the Arizona Coyotes coach.

I know he's French set. Yes, okay. There you go. I don't think he's just French sounding. I think he is from Quebec. He's actual French. Yeah. I'm trying to think...

Well, I don't think he's from, like, France. He's there. He's got, like, the beret and the striped shirt, and we're just... He's always carrying a grocery bag with baguettes and some green sticking out of the top. He's the other guy that I would... And here's the other thing that's fun, and I'll let me... I'll spin this around on you. do you know or remember who hired Andrew Burnett

after he was left row by Florida? Yeah. And I'll give you a hint. They hired him as an associate coach. He's basically the next head coach of this team that I'm surprised didn't fire their coach already, but I guess they want to wait until November. I did not know this again until I was looking it up

and I was like, oh, isn't it New Jersey? New Jersey, yeah. Yeah. He's the associate coach there for Lindy Ruff, who has... In my head it was Washington, but I'm like, there's no way it's Washington.

No. So, but I got there. I knew it was in the Metro. Yep. Very good. Very good. Um, but yeah,

that's a, uh, it's really crazy that like, um, do you know how many coaches currently in the NHL, uh, have been in their job since before 2019? Oh,

man. Uh, it's, it's like got to be down to, like, single, digits by now, right? Oh, yeah.

Because I remember it wasn't very long that like Sheldon Keith was like already in the top half of the coaches as far as tenure. And that was that I think that happened last year. So even before this offseason, I'll say eight. It's five. Sheldon Keith is ninth in most tenured coaches. He was hired November 20th, 2019. Did you see the list that went around?

round of the most likely coach to be fired first? Yes. And Sheldon Keefe was at the top. That to me wasn't a great list. I don't think Sheldon Kief is in enormous stage. Yeah, they had Andre Kerranyi pretty high, and it's like, what do you think they think is going on there? Yeah. What would he have to do to get fired?

Like, again, start this season with a 13-game winning streak? That's the only reason they would can him. Yeah. Like, Sheldon Keith will absolutely get fired if the leaves lose in the playoffs. if Kyle Dubas doesn't come back or whatever. Or maybe even if the season is going completely off the rails, Dubas has to fire him to save his own job. But I don't see him like getting fired in October or something.

It's not impossible, but I certainly wouldn't bet on him with the best. They would have to start like 0.6 or something like that to, or 4 and 2 or whatever. Yeah. And it's like, oh, and also like Tampa's started out white hot and whatever. You know who, uh, or or like, Ottawa, Detroit start off well, and you're suddenly like, wait a second. Yeah.

But even then, like they gave Babcock until what, like into November. Well into November. Mid November. Yeah. The guy that on that list that had jumped out, I don't remember what the odds were, but had pretty high odds that I is, I hate to say it, but Bruce Boudreau. Remember the off season when they were like, hey, you can come back on your option year or not at all? And he was like, I'll shop myself around. And then he came back.

I don't feel like Vancouver's committed to him. And I also feel like Vancouver is a team that is in playoff mode that might not look like a playoff team early on. So I hate to say it because I like Bruce Boudreelot, but that. He is not set up for success there. That would be my pick. And the other one I might mention is like DJ Smith in Ottawa. He's been around for a long time. That has not had a good team ever.

Right. But now in theory does. There's pressure on him, yeah. You know, if they start off terribly, I'm not saying they have to be in a playoff spot at the end of October, but if they, there's always like a team that has optimism around them that starts off like 2 and 8. And, you know, if it happens in Detroit, well, you've got a new guy.

You're not firing a new coach. But, yeah, DJ Smith, I could see you. Let me hit you with one more here. Gerard Gallant. I see he was pretty high on the list Was he? I don't remember Why would the rate?

I mean they had a good season He's a great coach You think they would Well the reason why He does seem to wear it as welcome but There's that But I just think And I mentioned this in my column

That's going up today Like I just think they Kind of set an unsustainable standard for what Like everybody's like Oh they're about to take a next step And it's like, yeah, I don't, I don't know about that, man. Like, they, they had a really good season.

They were a really good team last year. But so much of their success was on maybe like a top 10 goaltending season of the cap era, right? Like, and as much as you think Igor Shusirkin is unbelievable, and you should, how, uh, how easy to replicate that kind of success are we really? Right. coaches that get fired are always the coaches you just get worse than expected goal tending. Yep.

And the other thing is so much of their success was built on how unbelievable their power play was for most of the year. Right. And again, like they had one of the, I think, 20 most effective power plays in terms of goals per hour in the cap era. So the idea that they're going to get both of those things again next year, it's a bit of a tough sell for me, I would say. I don't think it's impossible. But I think if there's even a slight step back with what the rest of the East looks like this year, like there aren't going to be as many nights off as there were last season.

That's pretty fucking sure. No. And so, again, like I could just see a scenario where the Rangers are like, oh, we're only on pace for like 92 points in the playoff bubble. And like, you know, again, like Philip Heedle and Capo Caco aren't producing and blah, blah, blah. Does it make sense to maybe move on? It's not. Maybe.

It's not a bad case. Again, first, no, I don't think so, but maybe more danger than you think. I'm going to have my prediction contest where people have to pick like five coaches that aren't getting fired. And you made a decent case that maybe Galant should not be one of your sure thing guys. He would not be one of my sure things. Absolutely not. But yeah, anyway, you know what? Let's just do the plugs now. That was one of them. You got any more? Yeah, this got my bizarrometer this week where it's, you know, just strangest off-season.

So West was yesterday. East went up today. Go see how your favorite team did. And a bunch of preseason stuff coming up predictions. my most intriguing names of the season, the contest, all sorts of stuff. And then E.P.Rinkside.com

use the code I love EP when you sign up for an annual subscription and you'll get an extra three months tacked on at the end of your deal. Absolutely free of charge. And the reason you would want to do that right now, you want to get into real prospect sicko mode

we just did a list of the top 100 best affiliated prospects, like guys who are not, or who have been drafted or signed in the entire league. And then we're now working on, it says right here, we're on number 24, the Florida, well, the Florida Panthers, uh, prospect pool rankings. We have the Florida Panthers of 24. That just came out earlier today. So, uh, you know,

we'll have more for the next little while. And if you want to see where your team ranks, and I think it's the top 15 prospects on every team, gets a little blurb. So check all that out, see where your favorite team stands, all that. And yeah, that's it. I love EP for the code.

All one word, all capital letters. And then, of course, the PuckSoup Patreon, Patreon.com slash Puck Soup, where, well, we're getting to the part of the month where we do all our bonus episodes. So if you want to sign up for bonus episodes with me with Sean Gentilly, with Greg Wasinski, with Sean McIndoo, it's all in there. Me and Anna Vinge might talk a little wrestling too. Hey, why not, you know?

And by the way, just real quick, scale one to ten, how excited Survivor tonight, now that you're on board, now that you've become a fan. Yeah. This is, I'm very excited that like the only TV show I want. watch you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am very excited for Survivor tonight. So for for people who didn't, why would you have seen this on Twitter? I tweeted that I like Survivor now. And Sean was like instantly like, okay, we got to talk about this. This is great. And it's because I, I have enough friends, including Sean, who are like, Survivor is so good, dude. You got to check out Survivor. And then there were like two Sundays ago, not the other day, but like

10 days ago or whatever. I was like, you know what? There's nothing on right now. I don't watch football. So like, whatever. I'll just, I'll just put on a season of Survivor. What does the internet say is the best season?

I think it's season 16. And I watched it in like two episodes in. I was like, oh, those fucking rips. This is so good. Good. And then Sean said, you've got to watch the two most recent seasons because they kind of completely changed how the game is played.

And so I, I watched season 16, 41, and 42 in the last 10 days. Wow. Yeah. That's exciting. Yeah. And part of the reason why is my girlfriend went out of town for work for a few days. I've been just sitting around, not doing anything.

I watched like eight hours of Survivor on Monday. That's awesome. That's awesome. Have you been introduced to the concept of like Survivor Analytics? Yeah, I and like, you know, I watch enough like top chef and my girlfriend and I will watch The Bachelor and The Bachelorette and that kind of thing. And so like the idea of like if you just keep track of who's getting the best edit. Yeah. It's based on not on what like how the players are playing, but on how they're being presented.

Correct. The theory is you can figure out who's going to be based on that. So because I watch two other reality shows, I wouldn't say, you know, I have like a 100% success rate on like picking who the winner is, which apparently the survivor analytics usually do by, you know, like two thirds of the way through the season. They're like this. They can figure it out with high degree of accuracy, although not like perfection. Not 100%. But so like I can usually get like two of the final three pretty easily. you know, halfway through a season or whatever.

But yeah, I'm interested because I've only ever done it like looking at the analytics like after the fact, right? So I will be interested to follow along week to week and see how that works out. You got to make a call. You got to either like follow along during the week or stay out of it because sometimes it can get spoilery. But yeah, again, I think I would generally have a good idea of where we're at with it. Yeah, but it'll be, it'll be interesting for me to find out if I'm right a little bit. Starting next week, every episode of this podcast is just going to be Survivor talk. And then we'll be like, oh, and Austin Matthews got traded.

That's right. I will say this, though, Sean. You ask me, you have I'm excited for Survivor. Yes. However, AW Grand Slam. Live from Arthur Rastard. Boy, you got a tough night ahead of you tonight. No, I don't.

It's going to be very easy for me to make the decision to watch AEW, professional wrestling, number one. I went to AEW in Albany last week. So, hey, it was a fun one. But yeah, anyway, check out all the stuff we plugged. Watch Survivor, watch AEW if you want to hear our opinions on that at a later date as well. But until then, thanks for that. listening. Have a good one. Thanks, everyone.

Bye, bye.