Puck Soup - Olympics and Awards

Episode Date: January 6, 2026

Sean and Ryan talk about the snubs and flubs of the Canadian and US Olympic roster, then do some halfway awards talk. Sponsored by Raycon (buyraycon.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McAnneau from The Athletic. And folks, it's flubs and snub season. They're giving out the movie awards. They're saying, you know, one battle after another, the greatest movie of all time. And they're saying the Olympic rosters are either bad or good depending on what team you like.

Yeah. They brought the guy from the team I like. Well, they nailed it. 10 out of 10. No questions asked. You know what? I would say the Team USA has a roster designed to do. Win one battle after another, Ryan.

The movies. You see that one? After another. No goals. Lots of battles. I haven't seen it yet. But my goal is to, I'm planning to see it before the Oscars. Okay.

Well, this is going to come up on the mailbag. So this is a good thing. We're just going to foreground it now and then. We're going to move on to hockey stuff. Planning sense. USA or Canada you want to talk about first? It doesn't matter to me. I'm not afraid.

Let's do it like it's the results of a tournament and do Team USA second. Yep, that sounds about right to me. Okay. So Canada, they are bringing a very good team, in my opinion. Yep. Um, not, you know, not perfect. But I think, okay, this is what's interesting about, about the Canada versus U.S. roster to me right away is you see like where the politics shape everything. Right.

Um, Sirelli over Bennett. Now, that's just, uh, the guy who's the coach said, I'd like to take my guy instead of the guy, my team hates. Yeah. Who also is having a bad year by, by his standards. Yeah, although he's been much better, like, the last month. This is true of everybody that they're complaining about. Oh, J.T. Miller, that guy sucks. Have you looked at how he's done pretty, you know, he's good lately?

Yeah. Now, does that mean he should be on the Olympic team? Well, it's a different question. I just feel like Sam Bennett, like a month into the season, he was like the guy that you could hold up and say, if they've just already made their minds up, he'll be on the team, and if they're watching the season, he won't.

And then he did kind of turn it around, but also screw stay on it. For sure. He's a little rat, so I don't mind him not being on the team. But I wasn't, I was prepared to be mad that he was on the team, and then I looked at his numbers, and I was like, you know what? He's been okay lately, but I think they made the right call. But that is the one that seems to be reverberating up here as a snub. Yeah, it's all politics, right?

Like, that is the thing, is they just, the, the coach wanted his guy. I can't, I can't sit here and get mad at John Cooper for that. You know what I mean? Like, he thinks, and he's, you know, he's, the track record says that he's probably right. He thinks Anthony Sorrelli is an elite penalty killer. Mm-hmm. And so they're like, okay, we're going to put Anthony Sorrelli out there. when there are penalties, and then it's going to go really well for us.

It's hard to argue with that for me. I don't know. Like, that's not the one I'm, like, kind of upset about, baffled by, whatever you want to say. Okay. Which one on Team Canada are you most baffled? I don't really get this defense group, period. Okay. Yeah.

Like, I do insofar as they just said, let's bring back all the guys from Four Nations. Mm-hmm. I get that. but some of the guys they're leaving at home, I'm a little... So take somebody, put somebody on and take somebody off. Okay, I would love to put on Matthew Schaefer. And then you can take off anyone of Drew Dowdy, Travis Sandheim, Colton Perrako. You know what I mean?

That sounds fine to me. I mean, I think realistically they were taking Dowdy. As, you know, emotional support, veteran defensemen. Sure. But the other two guys, sure. I mean, obviously, Doug Armstrong is putting the team together, so. And I don't think Perako sucks or anything. Like, he has certainly rebounded from the Colton Perako sucks discourse of like two, three years ago.

Yeah. You know, like, I think Jim Montgomery's really helped him kind of find his form again, if you want to say that. but at the same time Matthew Schaefer I think you can make a pretty and we'll talk about this later I think you can make a pretty credible argument that he's already like a top

30 defensemen in the league and there are two, three, maybe even four depending on who you want to talk about guys on the Team Canada roster who to me are not that high. What about Jacob Chicker? Well yeah

I mean that's the So, okay, this is going to come up with the USA roster as well, but I think the Chikrin thing is, well, you know, we feel like he derives a lot of his value from the power play and where's he getting power play time? I don't like totally agree with that, but I, like, I see the argument, you know? Did you see the The mention of Chikrin Not Apparently he didn't even get a call I didn't see that

That's very surprising to me He said This is according to I don't remember where I saw it But it was on one of the socials that he hadn't even got a call So he's apparently Not in the mix Not even in the middle

Like not even one of the stay ready guys Yeah, that's crazy. He's got so many goals this year. And it kind of makes you wonder, like, who is, okay, who is next guy up? Is it Schaefer? I mean, it feels like it has to be. Well, it does it, though, because, like, all the reasons why you wouldn't put Matthew Schaefer in your top eight, to me are also reasons not to have him ninth. You know what I mean?

Sure. Yeah. Like, if you're that worried about bringing. a young guy, if you're that worried about mistakes or the moment being too big or experience or whatever, however you want to put it, I don't know. Is he really your next guy up if, you know, let's say Colen Perrako sprains an ankle or something? Maybe. He certainly would have to be there somewhere, but I wonder who the, I wonder if it's him or somebody else. And we, I mean, we should say, obviously, they don't have to know that right now.

Like, it's not like, you don't put in, like, here's my list of eight defensemen and here's in order the next guy's up. For sure, yeah. You know, they could, and I'm sure it would depend, right, on who gets hurt. If it's one of the defensive guys, all right, you may maybe want to bring a more defensive guy. You want to look at right or left or handedness and that sort of thing. but.

Hindedness did seem to come into it because... Always does. Well, yeah, and especially because they just, on 32 thoughts, a podcast where I don't think there's a ton of, like, idle speculation, you know? Yep. They kept going to, well, say it high, he can play on either side. And I was like, okay, I got it. You know what I mean?

Like, this is, this is coming from the top that he can play either side. And that's why it's totally acceptable that a guy who's not particularly good, I don't think. At least not at this level. You know, he's not one of the eight best defensemen for Canada or the U.S., quite frankly. Just on the topic of Team Canada, how as a nation, has the United States responded to Tom Wilson being on the team? Has there been any talk of pulling out of the tournament just as a safety thing because you're so intimidated? Well, I mean, if the Rangers were taking them or were putting the team together. Yeah.

Have you guys prepared your letter, your open? letter about how mean Tom Wilson is. You know, I think that I think we're keeping that in the drafts folder. We have like the sketch of it, but you know, we're not going to, we're not going to really like even pass it around yet. Okay. Look, I mean, I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's impossible to leave him off given the season he's had. He really did like play his way onto the. team.

He was a guy that, you know, you saw him mention a little bit for four nations. You saw him show up on a few of the snub lists this time last year, you know, it was a bit earlier last year. When we started first doing our Olympic spitballing, you know, his name would come up and you kind of, I think some of us kind of rolled our eyes a bit. But you're right. Good credit, man. Like the guy is having probably the best year of his career at exactly the right.

moment. Yeah, if you're going to, if you're going to be, what is he, like, 29, 30s, somewhere in there. Like, if you're going to have the best year of your career at that age, hell of a time to have it is an Olympic year, for sure. There's an extra forward spot. The first Olympic year in like a decade. He might be that, like, I could see him playing, like, against Team U.S.

I was going to say against Team EOS saying the round robin, but I don't even know if they, Do Canada in the U.S.? No, I don't think they do. You could see him being a guy that like against Sweden or whoever, they're, no, no, we'll dress some different guys. And then you throw him out there to, I don't know, go up to Matthew Kachuk on the opening face off

and be like, don't do anything. And Matthew Kichick will be like, screw you. It's international hockey. You can't do anything, do you? Tom Wilson goes, oh, yeah, you're right. And then goes to scores a goal, hopefully, I guess would be the plan. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, again, like, I can't sit here and say it's crazy that they, that they're bringing him at all. It makes perfect sense to me. And, you know, if you're, especially when you're talking about wingers and not moving centers to the wing, I don't know that you can come up with more than like six or maybe seven Canadian wingers who have had a better season. You know? Do you want to talk about the Baderd-Cellebrini thing? Sure. Okay, great. Celebrini has the reputation that Baderd does not,

and I think that's the difference here. Do you think it's that, or do you think the injury let them off the hook? They asked, and I think it was Doug Armstrong, and was like, not particularly, that's not why. Hmm, okay. Because, I mean, we talked for months about, would they bring them both? could they?

And then when Bader got hurt, and he'll be back, I mean, he's supposed to be back soon. So there's, you know, barring a re-injury or something, he's going to be, he should be, he's as likely to be 100% at Olympic time as anyone else. Yeah, I mean, there have been a lot of Olympic-related guy injuries lately. So, like, I don't, it's almost not even worth talking about because it's like, oh, you know, I don't know if, like, Matthew Kuchuk's going to

be 100% and I, you know, I don't either, but whatever, you know. But yeah, I mean, again, like, I think, like, just Bredard is, they're only going to bring one kid, I guess, is what it boils down to. And Celebrini has, and Celebrini has a well-earned reputation for being, I don't even know, I don't even want to say good defensively, because I don't know that that's right. But, like, he's just, oh, I don't have the puck. I'm going to, I'm going to play like a fucking demon to get it back. Yeah.

And it's interesting, right? Because there's now been, like, the pushback to that Connor Bedard discourse that, you know, actually he's better than you think. And I bet that's true. Including the, you know, my favorite recurring bit, which is coach who has actually. to secret analytics. Okay, so here's what's funny about that. Here's what's funny about that. Makes me laugh every time.

Does only Chicago have access to those? Because, like, presumably Doug Armstrong also has that access. And he was like, not for me, that guy. It's crazy. Like, every team has their own analytics group. And you're not going to believe what they say are the best of the world. Yeah, exactly. The players that coach likes are good, actually.

I looked into Look, we're gonna talk about this as well later when we do awards talk But like, it's crazy that the guys I watch the most all the time are the best ones And like that's probably true John Cooper with Anthony Sorrelli as well But at least John Cooper, you don't need to be like a fancy stats Like, you know, digging under the hood to look at Tampa's like penalty kill percentage You know what I mean?

Like he can just go, yeah. Well, he's out there all the time and we're running at like 87% or whatever the number is. So he must be pretty good at it. I have to say you're right, John Cooper, you know. That's right. Um, so yeah,

like, again, could you say like Connor Bedard's better than Bo Horvett? Sure you could. But they're just, they're just not going to play the same role. So. Yep.

I get it even if I, you know, I think Bedard is a better. Orvite was a minor surprise, but. he fits what they're looking for in that. Like, it's the modified ghost roster, right? Yes.

Do you bring just the 20 best guys? Or do you fill out what your ideal roster would look like and then put the best guy in each one of those roles? Or do you go kind of in between and go, all right, we need a third line checking center. We're not going to go out and, you know, put Scott Lawton on the team. But we're going to find a really talented guy who's probably the best player on his own team,

and we're going to put him in that, but he can play that role, whereas, you know, Connor Bedard can't do that. Or Mark Schifley can't do it because he's the other one that I think some people were surprised that wasn't on the team. He had certainly, he's one of several guys that I think can honestly say, look, I did everything I could do. Sure. To make this team.

I get it maybe just wasn't in the cards because I'm not sure what else Mark Schifley can realistically do to to make this team. Yeah. And like I again, this is one of those things where like any other country Shifley's on the team, but it's Canada. So, you know, sorry Big Dog. Like I think that really plays into it for him in particular. But that having been said, like I do think, um, however you want to say, like, team success this season does play a factor in, like, decision-making. And I'll put it this way.

If the Jets are on pace for another president's trophy this year, Mark Schifley's on this team. Instead, they're like 32nd in the league, and it becomes a lot easier to be like, yeah, we can kind of leave him at home, I think. So that's my only take on Chifley. Like I think obviously he's a very good player, but I'm not sure. I'll put it this way. So the way we did Olympic Stockwatch over Elite Prospects is the right before or, you know, two weeks before they announced the rosters, we did a thing of like, let's just pick who we think they're going to take, not who we would take, not the ideal team, who we

think they're going to take. And I had bad. Dard and Cam had Sorrelli Sorrelli got the go obviously Horvat is the one guy neither of us had on the team and everybody

every other forward we got right okay Sanheim and Harley in on the defense we just kind of missed Doughty over Chikrin was one of was a Cam's pick I had Chikrin

they didn't do that Did either of you have Shard? I think we must have. I don't have what we had. I just have, if this makes sense. Like, I have the roster that they picked, and did we have this guy on the team? So I could go back and click on a different thing, but I'm not going to.

But, yeah, again, with Boo Shard, it's like, okay, well, is he going to get power play time over McCar? Oh, he's not? Okay, I get why they left him at home. I can't get too worked up about it, you know? And then in goal, they took all the best guys. Yeah. Oh, I'm just kidding. They took one of the guys who's 870.

I wonder if his GM put in a good... Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Well, again, it's all politics. I can't get mad that Bittington's on the team. I really can't. And I know everything you're going to say.

Everything you're going to say is true. But he won. gold last time. Mm-hmm. And there's three goalies. You're under, you know, one of these guys doesn't even have to see the ice.

So that is, that is the question. Where you start game one, you get shelled, you're never seen again, then that's how it goes. So that's the question. How many games does Bennington start?

And I put this in the article. So, you know, I thought of this one already, but. Yeah. I think it, I think if you wanted to sit it over under it, 1.5, that would be...

I'm taking the under. He plays the opener, and that's it. If it doesn't go well, yeah, you're right. I have a suspicion it's not going to go well. Or at least, they're going to try a rotation and then, you know, Darcy Kemper fucking steals the job. Yeah. If people don't, when I say Curtis Joseph, if you young ins out there, this is, I'm thinking back to two, 2002, Team Canada has Curtis Joseph and Martam Broder and Ed Belfar, I think was the third guy.

Not bad. Not a bad trio. A little bit better than what they have now. But Pat Quinn was the coach of that team. He was also the coach of the Leafs where Curtis Joseph played. So it was a little bit of that politics factor of, okay, I'm going to start my guy. He starts the first game. I want to say it's against Sweden. They lose. He doesn't get shelled, but he gives up four or five goals. Pat Quinn goes, oh, Hey, this Broder guy, you want to take a swing at it? Broder goes in, never gives a net back. Led to some bad feelings with Quinn and Curtis Joseph,

but not too shabby when Martan Broder is your backup option. Not quite the same this time around, but... Yeah. So, yeah, Canada's opening game is against Chequia. The, you know, the Czechs have a pretty good team. You know, they've released their roster this morning. Um, it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, I guess they do have more guys than I thought. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't. They do, but then like you're reading down the list and you're like, oh, it thins out fast, but like this is, man, we're talking some of the names that are getting left off the North American teams. For sure. Of course. Yeah. Like, if you did a USA Canada snub team, they would, they would be picked to finish third or fourth at worst. Yeah. You know, like, that's just how it is.

Population differences, et cetera. But, yeah, so I don't know. Like, you have a little breathing room. You can say, okay, get Bennington out there. And if he looks good, that's fine. I just don't think there's anybody, like, forcing you to not play Logan Thompson, who, you know, is having probably maybe the best goaltending season of anybody in the world right now. It is interesting that Canada starts against Jack,

because, and then goes Switzerland, France. I'm looking at the schedule now. Because that does make it, because you're right, if Biddington starts the first game, and it doesn't go out, I mean, that's a game they should win. Canada should go 3 and 0, but, you know, to then tag in Logan Thompson, oh, he got a shut out against France. You know, you can picture Jordan Binnonkin sitting in the press box going,

Oh, okay, good. Great. Way to make those 11 saves. Right. So, it'll be... Well, I mean, you want to talk about, like, you want to talk about an easy group.

Did you see the U.S.? It's Denmark, Latvia, and Germany? Like, this is the thing. So they're, in theory, the U.S. should, like, kind of cruise to the metal round or the elimination round. I don't know how they phrase it, you know. But, like, they should,

They should cruise to that. And then they can all go, see, we brought all the right guys. I don't know what you guys are pissed off about. And then they lose to Canada or Sweden. And they go, well, I mean, look how good those guys were. We actually did a perfect job. There's nothing you can be mad at us about. The thing with, like you say, the thing with Bennington is he was always going to be on this team.

But would you rather have Kemper or Wedgwood, I guess, is the other. Yeah. Or Mackenzie Blackwood was... The two woods, yes. Either one of them. Cam had Wedgwood. I had Kemper, so... I think I would go Kemper.

Or no, the other way around, I had Wedgwood. They had Kemper. Or Camper. Like I say, you're a moron. I would go camper. Yeah, I think... But, again, like who... Probably not yet.

Unlikely to play. I don't even think he's unlikely to play. I just think it's like... Well, the third guy, like, you're not going to start. three guys in the round robin? You might. If you could.

And there's, again, it's like going badly, though. Sure. Well, so my, what I'm saying overall is, if you're guaranteeing you're taking Bennington and Thompson is going to be on the team just because, again, he's been probably the best goalie in the league so far this year. Like, regardless of nation, just like he's the best goalie. probably. Between Kemper Wedgwood and Blackwood, it's all six of one, half dozen of the other.

They're all perfectly good candidates. Yep. So that's all. By the way, speaking of Thompson and 32 thoughts, they were, the word personality conflict was mentioned with regard to why Thompson didn't make four nations, but he forced their hand this year. And I was like, huh. Well, that's interesting.

Yeah. First, with who? I would imagine the people picking the team, maybe the people in the room. Yeah, but I'm just like, but I'm trying to think through who's involved. Which are the 18 assistant GMs? That's right, yeah. Does he not get along with? Let me ask you this.

Is Kelly McCrimmon one of those assistant GMs? That's what I'm wondering. That might be the answer. Yep. All right, let's move on to the U.S. I don't really have anything else to say about Canada. They're probably going to win the gold medal. Like, that's fine.

We're good here. The U.S. obviously a lot more controversy because I saw this is the stat I saw. We'll start with this. Five of the highest, of the 10 highest scoring Americans, period, were left off this roster. Wow. And that's this season? That's this season, yeah. Yeah.

But. But. Well, hold on. I'm not done with stats yet because that was as of Friday. I went to see if that was still the case, and it is still the case, five of the top ten. Ten of the top 18 highest scoring Americans aren't on this team, which is shocking. That's the shocking part, is that, like, you can go down to, like, you know, Matthew Nyes. And I'm not saying all these guys should be making the team.

I'll just give you the 10 who got left off. Nyes, Rust, Schmaltz, Zegris, Gote, A, Terry. Caulfield, Hudson, De Brinket, and of course, Jason Robertson, Yep. I think it's Robertson, De Brinket, and Caulfield are the three that really stand out up front. I'm not even shocked by De Brinket, honestly. Well, I mean, I think a lot of, a lot of us maybe looked at it and thought, there's room for De Brinket or Caulfield.

The little guy, you know, the little feisty. The Small Goals Boy, yeah, of course. And there was not room for either of them. And I think on one level, I do get the argument that says, all right, Team USA can't match Canada really in forward depth, but top six, they're pretty locked in. Yes, absolutely. And if you're not, if you don't have a top six spot for Jason Robertson, for example, or certainly, if you're, to bring it or Caulfield? Do you have a spot for them at all?

And I guess it gets down to what is that third line going to look like? Do you want another scoring line or do you want different elements of the game? Right. And look, I think it's, I almost said criminal to leave Robertsonoff. I don't think anybody should go to jail for this one. Well, personally. Yeah, okay. But it is

Like, okay, I'll put it this way This is how I've been thinking about it The At the end of the day, the U.S. is going, Look, you're not going to prevent Canada From scoring four or five goals in any given game Except we already did. Right?

And so what they're saying is We can't keep up with them offensively, But we can shave another goal off what they've already scored. You know what I mean? Uh-huh. And I don't think that's true. It's kind of my, like, can you limit Canada to, what was the final in the four nations was three to two in overtime, right?

Yeah, it was three to two or four three, but. Well, what I'm saying is I don't think you can get Canada down to down lower than you've already scored. Yeah. But that's what they're trying to do. instead of just going like punch for punch with them. You know what I mean? Like, we'll just bring as many guys who can put the fucking puck in the net as possible.

It's the same thing we always end up saying. We save for Canada, too, although I don't think they fell into the trap quite as much. They took, the U.S. took it to its logical extreme for sure. Yeah, it is, this is a team that is designed to defend a 2-1 lead. Mm-hmm. Like, it feels like Bill Garron's starting point for this. was there are 10 minutes left in the third period and we are up 2 to 1 in the gold medal game. Yes.

Over Canada. What do we want our roster look like? And that's great until it's 10 minutes left in the gold medal game and you're down 2 to 1. Correct. That's exactly right. And Vincent Procheck is on the ice. That's exactly right. Yeah.

Because, you know, like I can't, I'm not even, look, I saw a lot. lot of people getting mad about Brock Nelson and like of the guys that I think should be on the team he's probably the worst one right but like I think he should be on the team I actually didn't have him making it um when we when we did our like roster predictions because I was just like surely okay so these are the guys I didn't have I did have trocheck because I thought they'd They'd go more defense, but maybe not to the to the extent Brock Nelson.

I'll, okay. I thought Brock Nelson, they would say, well, I mean, he plays on the avalanche. That's kind of like a cheat code. Versus like, obviously I thought they'd take Robertson who leads all Americans in scoring. But they just, nobody likes this fucking guy, it seems like. Nobody thinks he's any good at all.

It's all empty calorie points with him, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that seems to be the argument. Yeah. The second he gets involved. So I don't know. I don't know how to. Yeah. I mean, like, look, nobody's,

nobody's putting Jason Robertson on any Selky ballots. No, of course not. But the guy does score an awful lot. And I think, look, again, it's perception, right? Like, he wasn't particularly good in the playoffs last year. I believe he was playing hurt. But that's why everyone's mad at him. He wasn't good in the playoff.

He was on the trading block all summer, you know? Like, I can see how they talk themselves out of it, but I obviously disagree with it. Let's talk about the blue line, though, the big, the snub and flub. Let's just say one last thing real quick on Jim Nill is a team Canada guy. Yes. He's not team USA. So, again, like, that lack of the, the advocate in the room who's pounding the table. I don't even know that Jim Nill would be sitting.

I mean, the guy tried to trade him earlier this year, you know? Yeah, well, that's, yeah, that is true. So, but anyway, all right. Blue line. Adam Fox, the big snub. Yeah. And this one is interesting because Mike Sullivan is the coach of this team. Okay.

I would love to talk about it. this frame. Thank you, Sean. Earlier this year, again, this is not, I think 32 Thoughts is not the podcast like this one is for idle speculation. Oh, you know, we're theorizing. Elliot talks to all these people, you know, 50 times a day. So I think a lot of, a lot of what he puts out there is, is a lot more backed by conversations he has with people in the league. Are you suggesting that Elliott Friedman is more plugged in to the NHL than I am? certainly than I am. You might be having a kind of...

But you and I combined, we agree, are like 1.2 Elliot Friedman's. 1.15 maybe. Okay. No, I was rounding up, but sure. Yeah, sure. Okay, I get it. Our sources above replacement is... So, Elliot said, I don't know, like around Thanksgiving, I think it was. basically that like if J.T. Miller gets left off this team, it could be like a Martin-San-Luiz situation where he's like, okay, trade me then.

If I'm not going to be on this team, trade me. And so you hear, well, look, is J.T. Miller sounds like such a cool guy. Yeah, he's really chill. So like you go, okay, is J.T. Miller having the best season in the world? Definitely he isn't. I think, you know, he started out so badly that now the perception is, he's been fucking horrible and that's just not the case. You know, like he's been good, like taking on the hole and, you know, better lately.

So that that's maybe even, but it's like the question then is, is there a world where like you can envision the U.S. team without J.T. Miller? And it's like, yeah, I can, I can easily envision that. That wouldn't be a problem for me, right? But he, apparently, he kind of made it known. This is going to be a fucking problem if I'm not. not on the Olympic team. That's awesome. Yeah.

I didn't know you could get picked. Jason Robertson should have done that way. By just being like, I will have a temper tantrum if I don't get to go. Robertson should have done it. It clearly works. J.T. Miller just in the back seat, in his car seat, seeing the McDonald's sign over the horizon. Brother, we have all been there. Every single one of us.

Mike Sullivan and Chris Dury just exchanging a glance in the front seat. eat going, all right. Let's... Just to get him to shut up, please. Yeah, so, okay. Robertson could have done that too, but again, beside the point. So you have to take Miller.

Okay. And you have to take Trocheck, because he's good checking and, you know, his GM and his coach and probably one or two of the assistants from the Rangers are American. And so you rope him in there and blah, blah, blah. You can go down the list of there's all these, J.T. Miller advocates and Vincent Trocheck advocates out there.

Okay. The question of, okay, now what about Adam Fox? All those guys are like, what's that? I was looking at my phone. Yeah. Like they got called on in fucking trigonometry, and they were like, I don't want, like eyes is the size of fucking dinner plates.

If there were, I'm trying to think how to phrase this. If there's an, if the NHL dropped a surprise expansion draft and said you can only pick, protect X number of guys. In how many universes do the Rangers protect J.T. Miller or Vincent Trochev before Adam Fox.

Right. And I get, okay, like, yes, there's contracts and stuff that you don't work on. Positional, yep. But, like, Adam Fox is a better player than those two guys. If you're going to, I don't know, man. Like, I don't think you have to take Vincent Trochek. If you feel like you can only have two Rangers.

I was surprised by by Fox not being there. Do you want to know what my theory here is? Yeah. Okay. What, when we talk about like, hey, doesn't the,

like, it's amazing how badly the NHL kind of treats hockey fans, acts like they're like dumber than dog shit, just like you'll put up with anything because we love it, right? Yeah. We just love hockey. They hate us a lot.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. So the guy who like, oh, Calgary drafted me, but I don't want to play there. You're going to trade.

me and then Carolina trades for him. I only want to play for the Rangers, you're going to trade me. Like, the Rangers found a fucking mark. You know what I mean? Like, they're just like, they're like the WWE wrestlers who were like, actually Vince McMahon's a genius because he made me rich and famous. And it's like, well, I feel like you did that, though. You know what I mean?

But okay, sure. Like, that's how I view it with Adam Fox. They were like, we can leave this fucking mark off the team. Doesn't matter to us. He's going to sit there and, oh, I love being a New York Ranger. These other two guys, they might fucking cry about it all day. We leave them home. That's my theory.

A little future note for you other aspiring Olympians out there. Be a giant baby. Well, just, again, like, it's the thing of, like, walking onto the car lot and being like, boy, I really want to buy a Toyota Rav 4 today. Like, okay, well, yeah, we, right this way to the Ravre fours.

And you, and you want the true coat protection? Awesome, thanks. You know, like, they, they saw a guy coming down the midway,

but a bunch of fucking dollar bills just out in the open, you know? Man. Anyway, with all that having been said, I saw people say, how can you take Adam Fox over,

or Seth Jones over Adam Fox? I get it. Seth Jones has been fucking really good. for the panther since he got there basically. I'm not mad about that. Yeah. I don't know how you could be mad about that. The team USA Blue Line is better than the Canadian Blue Line.

Oh, by a lot to me. Yeah. Absolutely. And again, that's maybe not at the tippy top high end. You know, like, we can get into the Hughes McCarr discussion for the 50th time on this podcast if you want to. But, you know, I just think that the bottom of. of it. Like, there's,

there's no Sanheim here. You know, there's no, um, there's, there's, there's no, Drew Doughty where it's like,

yeah, I don't, can he keep up? And it, it really does feel like, unlike with Team Canada, like Adam Fox feels head and shoulders,

next guy up. Totally. Like, unlike Canada where, well, you know, what hand does he play with and what, uh,

what role is he, like, feels like it would have to be fuck. next. You would think. So. And then in goal, there's nothing to talk about. They took the same three guys.

I mean. Those guys are the three best ones. Yeah. Spencer Knight played his way into the conversation, absolutely, but. And he's the first guy they call if there's an injury. He's the first guy. But, you know, the other thing is you look at, like, Hellebuck and Ottinger are going to be there.

Swayman wasn't great last year. He's been really good this year. He's been probably the best of the three this year. Yeah. I'm actually, yeah, I wonder, is this Halebuck's net? Yes, I think it is, for sure. Is it his net? Like, is this a bidding to whoever's situation?

Like, is there a scenario where, is there a scenario other than injuries where Connor Haleb, anyone other than Halebuck is starting? Yeah, if you give up like four goals to Lottvia, that's a problem. Yeah. Obviously, you know. Just also given his, you know, his not, completely fair playoff reputation. And the fact that the Jets, like, haven't been good this year.

I think that does maybe play into it a little bit. Like, obviously, we're not blaming him for the Jets problems. A lot of their losses came when he was injured. But I don't know. To me, I'm a little, obviously a little hellabuck-pilled anyway. But, like, I think that he's the starter until he proves, he shouldn't be. Yeah, that's, I mean.

So again, give up four goals to lobby and we're having a different. Yeah. Yeah. He's the reigning MVP and he's having a good season. Not, he's not having an MVP season. He's not even having a Vezna season right now. But as much as, you know, you can say, well, like as he goes, so go the Jets. Which is a, you know, which is a narrative that has not, uh,

has not been hurt this year. Like, if you had doubts about him being the MVP last year, see what happened to the Jets once he got hurt? Yeah, what did they go like 1 and 12 or something like that? They were horrible. Oh, okay. We're going to be the 1974 Kansas City Scouts for the rest of the season. He should...

Even when he comes back. I'm saying this only partly in Jest. Like, the Jets should give him like a Mario Lemieux-style ownership stake for how much he has inflated their franchise value over the last decade. Like, he's just been, oh, I guess this guy who's like the best player in franchise history and it's not even close is propping us up even more than we thought. That's interesting. Anywho, yeah, I guess that's it. Like, again, to brink it.

Okay, let's quickly talk about the Hudson things since we're, since we kind of brush past the deal. defense a little bit. To me, it's just the same thing as like the Chikrin thing where it's like, okay, we feel like he's mostly a power play guy and we think he's a great one, but we got we got some power play guys. So we're good. Thank you. Yeah.

Is that, is it, is it the same as the Schaefer case? Um, no, I don't. The young guy, the, you know, what's he three years older than Schaefer? too. Extra extra one year of experience in the league, but yeah, the older calendar was.

I mean, Schaefer's been a better two-way player, which is no knock on Lane Hudson. Again, Schaefer's like a clear number one defenseman to me. So Hudson, I think you can say there are still, you know, aspects of his game. He's rounding out, blah, blah, blah. Obviously, I think he's great,

but he's not. not as good as Matthew Schaefer to me, which is, I can't believe I'm saying that, you know? Like, asked me this time last year, who do you think is a better NHL player halfway through the season? Hudson or Schaefer. And I'm certainly not saying, oh, Hudson is not on that level at all.

That's not my prediction for, anyway. I did want to also say this, is they asked about the, about the Adam Fox snub and this is the quote from Bill Garon. I just love this. They asked him, I think it was Greg specifically asked him,

hey, he was not very good in the Four Nations and in the championship game, he made the mistake that led to the game winning goal. So is that why you left him at home? And Bill Garen says, quote,

that's for you guys to wrestle with and talk about. That's not for us. If you think we made a decision on one play, you must not think we're very smart. Don't invite that man You know what I mean

Oh I guess you think it's because I'm dumb and ugly Huh? Yeah well You mentioned it For laughter that did not come Exactly man You just Oh what you think you think I'm stupid Well I mean

You know If I'm mad at you enough about like I'll say this When they first announced this roster I was like this is fucking outrageous What are they doing? And I've kind of come down Like, I've backed away from that ledge.

But you still can't be out here saying, oh, I guess you, what do you think I'm an idiot? If I'm a Rangers fan, I'm going, yeah, you're dumber than dog shit to me. Like that, that's an easy question for me to answer as a Rangers fan. Yes. Thanks for asking. So, anyway, I wanted to say that. And then let's quickly talk about World Juniors. I don't think either of us have a ton to say about.

about it. But Sweden wins. They beat Chequia. Shout out to Chequia for making it to the gold medal game over Canada. Is that three years in a row Canada's lost to Chequia? Yes. It's crazy. Twice in the quarters and then in the semis.

Yeah. It's unbelievable. Yeah. And Chequia outplayed them. Oh, totally. Yeah. It was a better team. Like this wasn't, like you can get, we've said a million times.

Single elimination tournament, you can get goalied. Mm-hmm. Canada didn't get goalied. That's not what happened. But it was the better team won. Absolutely. And yeah, very cool for Team Sweden only the third time they've ever won the tournament, which seems... Doesn't seem like it's possible, but here we are.

Yeah, I always like it when a European team, it's like the world championships where it's like, oh, Canada won the world championships. And like, four people are like, oh, cool. whereas, you know, a or a European team wins World or World Juniors. Those guys are like national heroes. You know? And I think that rocks.

I think that's so fucking cool. The import that European countries give it, for me, that means they should win every international tournament in terms of just how excited people are. So shout out to Sweden. They did it. did you have any thought like I know you weren't at the tournament but right some of your your colleagues were any any thoughts on how Minnesota did as a host the reviews have not been fantastic I gotta say I was so much them as host but just as as the location like it to be picked I've seen some people say that was not a wise choice yeah and like

I can only say, you know, what I saw on TV, and what I saw on TV was a lot of empty seats. That's never good. But here's the thing. And again, anytime they hold it like in North America, it's just the attendance isn't as good as you would like it to be. And... Yeah, but... Unless Canada or the U.S. is like playing in a meaningful game. Or unless you hold it somewhere that is...

a junior town, right? Because Minnesota's a great, great hockey town. Hockey city, hockey area, hockey, you know, whatever you want to spread the geography. But there's no junior

presence. Right. Of course. It's the NHL and it's college, high school. Yes. So versus the idea that, you know, I more and more come to this idea that like don't don't put it in NHL cities yeah I saw that take floating around put it in like the Windsor of the world where it's like ideally you know obviously you're not always have it in North America but when you do put it close to the border and put it in a city that is

that has a junior team and knows junior hockey and is going to view this as bit like right If you're a town that has junior team, the world juniors is the big leagues. This is the Super Bowl. Sure. Can I say this, though? It's not bad. Yeah, right. Well, let me say this first.

When was the last time Boston hosted? Like the 90s? That's one. And I think, especially with the change in the rules and everything, there is an experiment to be had about, let's talk. about a college hockey town. Minnesota, obviously, that is a little bit the case. But everybody there's like, well, I like the golden gophers, you know, as opposed to BC, BU, like the number of kids that I see on a weekly basis who played in World Juniors just

because they play college hockey around here is pretty high. I'm going to, I'm going to BU and UMass on. on Friday. How many BU kids were in this tournament? UMass had Voslav Nestrasil, who's one of the two best players for the checks, you know? Bumetian, Sasha Bumetian,

plays for B.U. He scored the winning goal in the gold medal game. You know, like, I think you can make the argument that this is a thing that could work. Like, don't just try the same, like, four cities in the U.S. Mm-hmm. That having been said, I got two words for you. Springfield, Massachusetts.

Let's bring it home, you know. It's just nice for my commute, that's all. Yeah, that's Ryan's saying that even a few of you can crash on his couch if you. Well, I'm not saying that at all, actually. I thought you did. No, the dog wouldn't like it, frankly. And what he says goes. Yeah, fair enough.

Has he talked yet, by the way? Did he tell you that specifically? No, he's still saving it. if you're like... Oh, well, I mean, if you have a bunch of forerters showing up, he's definitely going to have something. Ugh, man. He would not be happy about that.

I did want to say one last thing about the World Juniors, though. Did you see this Zane Perrette quote? They asked him, he was like, being fun and funny in the pressers and all this kind of stuff, and they were like, boy, you seem to be having a lot of fun. And, like, what's driving that? And he goes, I think it's more watching anything. HL guys be robots and not having any personality. I think you need some personality

and it's the best way to grow the game. I don't want to come in here and be a robot. When I'm in Calgary I definitely have a lot of guys telling me to really give simple answers, but here I could kind of do what I want. I think that rocks that he said that and then he later walked it back. I actually didn't mean robots.

But shout out Zane Perak saying they're all robots and they want you to be boring. We know. We see you, We hear you, man. I thought that was a great quote. They're boring robots, he said. Awesome.

Anyway, why don't we take a break? We'll be right back and talk about awards. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Raycon. And folks, if you have a bunch of freaking grinches in your lives that you put a pair of headphones on your wish list, and you didn't get them because of the grinches that I mentioned earlier, this is where Raycon comes in. Now is the perfect time to get their everyday earbuds classic because they sound good, they look good, they're very comfortable to wear, and you're not going to believe this, they're on sale right now. As the name implies, these things are the perfect headphone for everyday use because they have active noise cancellation. Drown out the sound of having to go back to the damn office, we hate that, right?

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And look, we're halfway through the season pretty much. I think everybody or almost everybody's played 41 games. So that's halfway. And that means it's time for my favorite game. Beat writers going, well, I looked at all the numbers, and you're not going to believe it. It's the craziest coincidence, 83rd year in a row. The guy I cover is the best player in the league.

I looked at it up and down. I kind of, you know, like squinted at it through a jewelers loop. My guy, number one. Yep. You wouldn't believe it. I will say this. Shout out to Dom and Greg for getting their awards watch articles out there this morning so I could look at them and go, okay, I'm on track. All my little guys that I wrote down last night were locked in.

Okay. So that's great. That worked out perfect for me. Let's start with the Calder. Is this over already? I think we've already declared it over like three separate times at least. including before the season, it was going to be Demadog. That it was going to be Schaefer.

I feel like there was a little window where we very briefly remembered that goalies are also eligible. And then we're like, not forget that. So it's back to Schaefer. But I don't feel like it's over, but certainly Matthew Schaefer has a good lead. Yeah, I think it's a two horse. race here. Schaefer, clearly in the lead, but it depends on how things go

in net for Minnesota the rest of the way. I think Walshsted can really close the gap. If he gets more games consistently, it's not like a 1A, 1B situation. He seizes the job, which I don't know that he can, but that's his pass.

I'll put it that way. He's been awesome, but doesn't have the GPs to make it happen for him. right now. I think Schaefer's just been fucking unbelievable. Like, way better than anybody had any real reason to expect. Like, I think, you know, this is the lie detector scenario, but like Matthew Darsh, you're, you're in the lie detector chair. You've been given the truth serum.

Did you think Schaefer was this good? He's like, hell, though. Not in, not in year one. No, that's exactly right. Like, I feel like Matthew Schaefer right now is playing like what you would have said would be the best case scenario for like his year 20 season. You're like like age 20 season. Like three years into his career, this is what you were hoping for. And he was like, no, I'm just going to do it now. Yeah, it rocks.

It's so sick. It does. It really does. Is there any, like, is that the top three? Yeah, I think it probably is. Demodov's been great. Yeah. He just has been as good as Matthew Shaper. Like, let's put it this way.

Normal year, like, even Walsstead, I think, is punching above his expected weight. Let's put it that way. You know, like, I don't think everybody was like, clear, like, could be a number one goalie on most teams in the league is where he's at. You know what I mean? It was, like, that's what people were thinking a year or two ago. And then after last year, it was like, oh, he's a bum. Right. And then he's like, yeah.

I'm a goalie, so I get to be, goalies get to be rookies for like the first seven years of their career. So, right. Guess what? But yeah, Demadov looks awesome. So, like, he could win at most other years. Unfortunately, Matthew Schaefer came around and was like, I'm going to actually play like an all star right now.

How's that sound? Oh, well. Yeah. Sounds bad for me, Ivan Demetoff. So I think that's a pretty simple one to talk about. What about the sales? Elky. So no barcove.

Makes it so much harder. It makes it harder and also makes it like, I don't know. Who does? Oh, Dom has Charlie Coil. Yeah. Narrowly in the top spot. I don't see that happening, but that's... No.

How many points does he even have? Brock Nelson is a real Like kind of big brain pick in so far as Well the reason McAnon is doing all this It's because he has Brock Nelson to rely on And Brock Nelson actually he made the Olympic team Because of how good You know

And like Nelson has a ton of points this year So that's great You know But yeah for me I I totally think that's fine But like I just looked it up Charlie Coil has six goals this year.

Come on. You need a little more than that. That's exactly what. Here's the thing. People think this is the award for defensive forward. No, it's the award for 200 foot forward. 25 points, whatever, 50 points at the end of the year, 12 goals, that's not going to cut it. There's a reason Barkov keeps winning this fucking thing, you know?

You got to be a 60 point center or probably like an 80 point winger at this point. So that haven't been said, is this Nick Suzuki versus Sam Reinhart? I, yeah. So Reinhardt. Yeah. I think if it's me picking, it's Suzuki. But I think the voters, and again, this is just for right now. I don't know that he's necessarily going to keep up this scoring pace, blah, blah, blah.

But, I mean, he did it last year. So it's definitely in the realm of possibility. but with Reinhart, he has as much of a narrative case as anybody. He, what was he, second in voting last year? Barcov goes down. Everyone's like, well, it's fucking sinker swim time for Sam Reinhart. And he's like, I'll swim. That's fine.

So there's that as well. I think he's, how do I want to say this? I think he's overperforming offensively. But also, he could keep doing that because he's, going to get the power play time that Barkov isn't, you know? So I think it's down to Suzuki and Reinhart, and if you want to round out the three with half the forwards in the league, I'd go sure. Yeah.

On the, on, I'm just looking at Dom's top 10. The other one that I think I could see is, is Mitch Marner. He's headdance before he's, you know, even as a winger, he's going to, probably wind up with 80 something points. I know you could certainly say, well, this guy's had 100 points before and he didn't win, so his offense has dropped this year.

Yeah, but that was against Barkov. And also the narrative here is kind of a fun one, right? You know, when a guy switches teams, you seem to sometimes give a boost. So, but yeah, I think it's, I think it's,

Suzuki is in the lead, I would say at this point. Mm-hmm. Vesna? Yeah, a weird one, right? Hellibuck kind of opening the door. Seemed like it was Shistercans for a bit. We don't know the injury situation last night.

As of when we're recording this, I have not seen any reports on how long it is. Me neither, yeah. But it didn't look. I went looking this morning, but yeah. So it's this weird mix of like, Guys that you sort of don't think of as superstars, and I would put Logan Thompson in that group? Totally, yes.

Spencer Knight was a nice story for the first few months. I don't know if that keeps up the whole year. Yeah, he's faded a bit already, for sure. Sturkin, Sorokin is maybe. So, yeah, Thompson and Sorokin, I think, are the clear one and two for me right now. But like I've already said it a few times on this podcast. I think if we're giving it right now, it's Thompson, number one with a bullet. And then like if you kind of, again, squint, you can talk yourself into Sorokan instead.

But I just don't know that he's, that he's in that conversation the same way. Okay. I think part of it is obviously where's any of these guys' teams without any of these guys' teams without, an elite netminder, of course, but like it feels like the Caps would really be in a lot of trouble if they weren't getting like elite elite, elite goaltending. You know what I mean? So I think that comes into it as well.

And I don't know. There's enough talent on the Islanders that you go, well, sure. Yeah, of course. Look at, you know, they got X, Y, and Z. There are good players up and down that lineup. Maybe not a ton of great players. But with the Capitals, it's like, yeah,

they got some guys. And Thompson is just like standing on his head every night basically. And has done it now two years in a row in Washington, which helped with a guy like that. You know, I said a guy who's not viewed as a superstar, but he was, he didn't end up being a finalist last year, if I'm remembering right. But I think he was, he was very close. He was in the top five. So. Yeah.

You know, if you're one of those voters who's worried that you're going to cast a vote that ends up looking like a, you know, a Jim Carrey fluke years later, then you feel better about it. Maybe that should matter, but it does. And the other thing that should not matter, but absolutely will, is performance in the Olympics. Right? Right? Like, he's going to get a chance to do something in a way that Sorokin certainly. isn't because Russia is not allowed to be in the Olympics. And Swamen probably isn't because he might be number three on the U.S. depth chart.

Right? So like, if Canada wins gold and Logan Thompson is the goalie that wins the four to three game, the three to two game, whatever it is in the gold medal game, people are going to go, huh, I don't know, I'm going to keep that in mind for April. You know, like, even though that shouldn't count, that's, I think, I'll put it this way. I think you could absolutely say that certain players' performances in Four Nations last year led to them getting votes they maybe otherwise wouldn't have gotten in the regular season. Yeah. So. Can't hurt. Not Bennington, but like a lot of other guys. I just looked it up.

Bennington got no awards votes, which is correct, but I thought for sure there must have been somebody who gave him a third place vote. But the GM's vote on that, blah, blah, blah. Does it work the other way if he plays poorly? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, play poorly in the Olympics is probably, especially for Logan Thompson, is probably one game. You know, they lose 4 to 3 to Switzerland with him and that. They go back to Bennington. like what this one game hurt him the same way that three or four great games would help him?

It's an interesting question. Well, I'll put it this way. Adam Foggs went from never being bottom, like outside the top five for the Norris in his career to 12th in the Norris voting last year. Yeah. It's just something for certain people to think about, I think. All right. Hey, speaking of the Norris voting, who you got for the Norris? So, I mean, we can do McCar and Hughes again.

Yep. As our debate, I mean, Schaefer will get a couple. And then the other one is Mort's cider is the guy that. Yes. Don makes the case that he may be moving into the even close to the favorite conversation? I think you can make a really credible case that he is the best defenseman in the league right now.

Or, well, he's having the best season. Let's put it that way. I say this all the time. You know why Cal McCar gets to look really, really good every night is because he plays with Nathan McKinn. You know what I mean? And that's not a knock on McCar. I think he's one of the best defensemen in the history of hockey, right?

but it's a lot easier for him to drive play when one of the guys he can get the puck to is Nathan McKinnon. That's all, you know? And with cider, you go, okay, you can like Dylan Larkin all you want. You know, you can think DeBringk it's really good all you want. You don't think they're as good as the guys on the avalanche. and I think you're right to think that. I'll put it that way.

So that's kind of my argument. Like, look, it's really this simple to me. They were like, you know what we should do with cider is get him away from Ben Chirot and then fucking rocket takes off, Ben. Like, 59% of the expectant, goals when he's out there with Edvenson at five on five. 57% of the shots, 60% of the goals.

And then like, you know, you look at what he did last year with Chirot, 47% of the XGs, 48% of the goals, 49% of the shots. Like, this doesn't, this doesn't happen if he has the, the Chirot anchor tied around his ankle still. We're not having this conversation. But guess what? He doesn't anymore. They said, you play with Edvinson.

And he said, sounds good. I'll go out there and win a Norris now. Thank you. You know? But as you kind of alluded to, Hughes started out the season and paid, not Luke Hughes, all right, folks? They want that guy out of New Jersey. He sucks. Yeah.

That was nasty. Yeah. But again, like, if we're talking about Quinn Hughes, and again, I'll just put it this simply. Wins above replacement for Quinn Hughes in 26 games in Vancouver, 0.4. Wins above replacement in 12 games with Minnesota, 1.1. So this is one of those things where they're like, it's McCarr and Sider. they check the rearview mirror. There's a little tiny dot in the distance like 12 games ago.

The tiniest little dot. They look at it again and it's the fucking T-Rex chasing the Jeep like halfway through Jurassic Park. They're like, oh, fuck. And here's the thing. Like when you're talking about awards voting, it's the whole season that matters. Obviously there's always going to be some recent. bias, but of course. Voters tend to look at the whole season.

So if a guy has a bad first six weeks and then comes on, hey, that six weeks counts. I do think that in the scenario where a guy gets traded, voters will be much more likely to give him a reset. It's also just easier to forget. Yeah. And just look at it and say, but like, you know, I think just if Kill McCarr had started slow

and people were looking at it and saying, you know, if you take away the first six weeks, Kale McCarves' best defenseman in the league, I think a lot of people go, yeah, but you can't do that. It's the whole season. Quinn Hughes, I think if people say, since he was traded to the wild, he's been the best defenseman in the league,

a lot of guys will say, you know what, I'm voting for the Minnesota version of Quinn Hughes for the Norris. Sure. No, it's Joe Thornton getting traded to San Jose. He was pretty good with Boston. He gets to San Jose. He turns into a guy that scores

125 points. And it is... I know Thornton's the only guy to ever be traded during an MVP season. Is he the only guy to be traded during like a major award season? Has anyone ever won Norris or... This seems like it...

You know who I would call if I had this question? You. So, you tell me, brother. I don't know. Just looked it up. Does not appear than anyone has ever won a Norris trophy.

Quinn Hughes, come on down, big dog. There we go. You got this. So, yeah, I think right now I would give it to cider. It would go cider McCar Hughes in my voting, but big green arrow pointing up with Quinn Hughes. Sure. The stock is rising, for sure.

The heart. So, Nathan McKinnon seemed like he was kind of running away with this for a while. Seemed like, I think, is the exact right way to put it. And he hasn't dropped, I don't think, but McDavid is making up some ground. You aren't fucking kidding. And then, like, it's down to, it's McDavid and McKinnon if you vote on the heart as best player. there are some defensemen in the mix, as we have pointed out, for whatever reason,

defensemen don't seem to get Norris votes. No defenseman has even been a finalist for the Norris since 2000. That's insane. But it is the case. I do wonder, then you get into some of these if this team makes the playoffs. Like if the sharks make the playoffs, as the second wild card

and they get absolutely destroyed by the avalanche in round one, does that put Macklin Celebrating at the top of heart balance? If he finishes the season with, let's say, 100 points, well, I'll make David and McKinnon have 140. I don't, I think the gap would need to be smaller than that, quite frankly. Because I'll put it this way. Obviously, you know, cards on the table here, I think McKinnon should win it based on the first 41 games of the season. I looked at it this morning.

He is on pace, and again, it doesn't work like this, but he is on pace to be plus 100 at the end. Through 41 games, he is plus 50. And plus minus, blah, blah, blah. I agree. But if a guy gets to plus 100, it's like that when McDaniel, David had like 150 points and everyone was like, holy fuck, really? Plus 100 was like one of those stats that you would talk about guys doing in the 70s, like Bobby Orr. Yes, Bobby Orr is the only guy.

Larry Robinson, I think, did it one year. And you're just like that, it's, that's like Gretzky scoring 90 goals. Totally, yes. And the thing with plus minus, we've said it before, the reason guys like us tend to not bother with plus minus is that it's an insane. mainly noisy stat. Mm-hmm. Noisy stats are only really useful if you have either a really big sample size or a really extreme result.

Mm-hmm. Plus 100 would be... Like, I can't even imagine that we're talking about that in this era of the NHL. It's, again, you know, pace doesn't work like this. I am agreeing with anybody who would say this. But at 5 on 5 alone, he is plus 42. That's taking out empty netters. That's taking, you know, all the stuff that pads out ones plus minus.

He is plus 42 at 5 on 5. Teams have scored 16 goals against the avalanche, and they've scored 58 when he's on the ice. It's fucking ridiculous. He is the best player in the league. this year. And the way I think about value, that makes him the most valuable player. Yep.

Wayne Gretzky was plus 100 on the nose one time. Nobody else has even, among forwards, even gotten to plus 90. Rough couple of years for old 99, huh? His stats are looking a little more attainable these days. at least everything else in his life is going great. So this is, and again, this is, we're talking about like, there were two forwards who were plus 89 on the 77 habs, which was an all-star team playing in a league where half the teams were

some WHA quality. It's just to even get into that conversation these days is, madness. It's crazy. So again, I got, I got McKinnon as my MVP, but there are some guys I could hear out, including Moritz cider. I would totally buy Moritz cider as a finalist at the, at a bare minimum, the way things have gone.

You know, like, in much the same way, celebrini, like, holy shit, we can't believe he's doing this with the sharks. I can't believe a defenseman is leading the Red Wings back to the playoffs for the first time in a decade plus or whatever. This would be 11 years, right? 10. 10. 10, yeah, 2016. Okay.

So, like, I can't believe that's happening, but it is. It's undeniable to me. So that would be my top two, and then, you know, I get the arguments for Celebrini. McDavid, I think, would probably be my number three. And then my fifth guy would be Thompson probably. Or, you know, he'd be in my top five. Let's put it that way. But they don't...

But just given the number of voters who just tend to end up with five forwards, it's... Man, the fact that a goal he won it last year is crazy. Yeah. that's how good hell of it was. Maybe we get back to, maybe it's a defenseman this year, but I don't. Yeah. Maybe it's a defenseman getting enough votes to be a finalist this year. I just, I don't see how a defenseman's going to win the award in a season where forwards have 140 points.

Yeah, I think that's right. And again, like, I don't think, I think you should, but I don't think Cider's going to win the Norris. I think Cal McCar is going to win the Norris, you know. So that's going to make it tough for Sider to get the MVP, but not most outstanding player at his position, you know? So. Yep. But there's still 41 fucking games to go.

So, you know, we can worry about this three, four months from now. You want to do coaching GM while we're at it? Yeah, we might as well. Hell, why not? Who you got for the Jack Adams? I, we know. that the Jack Adams is usually the biggest overperformance of preseason expectations, which in theory would put guys like Rick Tockett in the conversation.

Joel Quenville. Joel Quenville was probably the frontrunner, but the ducks have been sort of plunging a bit. Ryan Worsowski. Maybe, yeah. Well, I mean, if the sharks make the playoffs, yep, right? Like, then it becomes a pretty easy call, in my opinion,

that he would get that kind of consideration, not that he would be my pick. Lane Lambert is, because they also like guys who are in their first year. So you can point to and say that's what changed. That's the difference. I think Todd McClellan gets a decent amount of love. of, you know, in his first full year if he gets Detroit back to the playoffs.

But I really think this could be the year that, absent a very obvious candidate who matches the typical criteria, I think this could be the John Cooper year. I think this is the John Cooper year. I agree. You know, it's like McKinnon a few years ago, where the voters all got together in like August, and we're like, it's just McKinnon's year, huh?

And then, like, he had a great season. I'm not saying he didn't. But, like, it just felt like we had enough conversations about he's never won that, huh, about Cooper. Yeah. Frankly, since Four Nations, that everybody goes, well, I mean, unless the lightning suck next year, we can do that. We can make that happen. And, I mean, if there's a very good chance of the lightning end up finishing as the number one seed in the East. Yeah.

Now, they might finish number one C in the East with 92 points because it's all it takes. But I put it, I think if the lightning finish first, yes. It's tough to say, remember the Jack Adams is the broadcasters and those guys. Geez, a bunch of pretty boys. Well, that and also the broadcasters, they're the most, I looked into it and my team is the best one ever. Yeah. guys that I can think of. So there's that as well.

But yeah, I just think, I just think we're awaiting the Cooper coronation. And I think that's fine. I wonder if, you know, the aves do kind of get, not even, not even like break the Bruins record from a few years ago, but like get up around it. then that's that we could be in bed in our territory, but he's won before, right? You know what? I was just looking that up. Did he, did he win?

No, I don't want to know about Jack Adams, the actual guy. Because I feel like he, did he win, well, he didn't win his first year. Because his first year he came in, I don't know. It doesn't look like he has one. Huh, okay. Well, he could be your other guy. And can I put this one? out there.

I think this is not going to happen, but I think the way things are trending, he could put himself into the conversation, John Hines. Yep. For what it's worth, Bedner has finished third one time. He's been a finalist. Way back in 2018, Cooper's been a finalist twice. That's crazy. Yeah.

One third place, and he was second place. A few, well, not a few years ago. 2019, the year that Barry Trots won with the Islanders. Hard to argue. I mean, he left that team and they stopped making conference finals. We can put it that way pretty safely. Yep. But yeah, that's just one of those things where it's like,

there's been two years ever where the broadcasters thought John Cooper was one of the three best coaches in the league. Yep. maybe you guys shouldn't get to vote on this, it sounds like. Like, what are you talking about? The other thing that I'll just mention as I'm looking at the list of winners, just a reminder,

Rick Tockett won two years ago. Mm-hmm. So for him to win twice in three years, I think would be almost, I haven't gone down and looked. I know the only guy to ever win back to back is Jacques Demers in the 80s.

Mm-hmm. It's basically in a war. that's impossible to win in back-to-back years. Because you can't, once you've won at once, you're not surprising anyone the second year. Of course. The fact that Tockech switched teams in between there, I think puts him in play.

But I do wonder if there'd be like an unspoken penalty on him that he won so recently. Well, also, I don't think he's a good coach. So there's that as well. There is that. But if the Flyers make the playoffs, he's absolutely getting votes. Sure, yeah, I get that.

Do you want to quickly do the Jim Greger? I was thinking about this when I was putting this together. Isn't it funny that the only two awards, well, I guess the Art Ross, but that's not really an award, so much as it is like a thing you win? Yeah. You know what I mean. Yep. Isn't it funny that the Jim Gregory and the Jack Adams are the only two we refer to by their full legal names? You know what?

That's a good point. Yeah. I'm going to start doing the... The George Svesna Award. Yeah. Once I figure out with the first names of the other guys, I'm going to start... James Norris. Got to win the James Norris Award.

Is Calder also James? It's not like the Mike Calder Award. It's Kyle Calder. That's right. A lot of people don't know that, but... Who the fuck? What the fuck is that guy? It is the James Calder, right? I think so.

I think you're right. Calder trophy. Let's see what the internet has to say about this. Well, it's going to take forever to load. Hey, why not? I'm only on fiber internet. Anyway, who you got for the Gregory? Did you know the Hart Trophy is the Dr. David Hart Trophy?

I don't think I knew that. Like, I don't mean like, oh, I forgot. No, it's the Dr. David Hart Trophy. I'm calling it that, and you have to say the doctor part. I was going to say, we're going to start calling it the doc. Who's winning the doctor, David Hart? I thought it was named after Stu Hart. It should have been.

Hell, according to Bobby the Brain Heenan, he's certainly old enough, you know. Will you stop? Or did you bring up? He was all with bagging on Helen. It'll be won by whoever is in the conference finals. Well, right, but I mean, that's like literally the criteria, I think, but. I mean, the avalanche didn't really do anything big in the offseason.

No. Jim, Neil, we have to be tired of. You know what my guess is? What's that? People are going to be shocked given the week he's had, but Bill Kerry. That's what I'm thinking. Went out and got the best defenseman alive maybe. So that's pretty good.

Yeah. And the team is, you know, a surprise and he got Caprizae signed. I do wonder, like if, put it this way. If Team Eose wins gold. Come on down, Bill. Bill Garan might be the guy.

And again, as we said with the goalies, it should not matter. But these are human beings. I could see Ken Hughes in Montreal. get. Great call. Yep. And then from there,

you know, Tulski could get some some consideration. Carolina's... Mike Greer. Same gimmick if San Jose makes the playoffs. Like I don't think... I don't think Matt,

like would Matthew Darsh get... Like, if the Islander... Probably not. I mean, even if we're looking at it through the lens of like he did a good job drafting Matthew Schaefer. Well, he picked first. overall.

So how, you know, it wasn't like he found a diamond in the rough here. He picked first overall. And also picked first overall by winning the lottery and moving up 10 spots, which you could see. I can imagine some GMs having that like bitterness. Mm-hmm. It's going to come down to who, uh, whoever's in the conference final. But I, I, I like, I like, you know, if they voted on it right now, I could see it being, uh,

It's got to be Big Bill. Big Bill or Kent Hughes. Or knowing, based on my prediction contest, Joe Sackick getting a lot of votes in Colorado. And then him having to explain, like, I haven't been the GM in seven years. Everyone's like, here's your trophy, big man. Chris is like, man, what the fuck do I got to do? Get on some, get on the fucking radar here. Anyhow.

A couple other things, real quick. End of the show. Alex Venberg, big contract extension, three years, six million bucks a pop in San Jose. Yeah, sure. A guy they can trust. I agree, but they've got room. They've got room.

It's a guy they know and like and all that kind of stuff. And you don't want to, let's put it this way. You don't want to be out there looking to replace a Venberg, you know, six months from now because you're probably not going to find one. And if you are, you're paying more than $6 million. I suppose, sure. So just take the guy you like and you know already and that's A.K. And it's three years?

Three years only. And he's, gosh, how old is he now? 30, 29. So like it's not, it's not that bad. Yeah. Yep. I'm going to look up how old he is right now. He is 31.

So takes you to age 34, no problem for me. The other big extension here, Christian Dvorak, he's getting five years, 5.15 million. And he is going to be 30 in less than a month. So to me, a guy who's career high in points is 38, and that was like pre-COVID. You know? I don't know that I want to sign up for that guy for five years. But the money, I guess who cares? I guess what I'm saying is I don't want to see Christian Dvorak at 35 years old as a guy I'm paying, you know?

No. But again, not a bad time to be in the business of being a useful player on a surprisingly good team. The vibes are good, everyone's happy. and unless you're madfay Mitch Gobb in which case you know TVD. Very clearly going to last forever. Yeah. Yeah.

No, they're buying high and they're buying early and I'm not obviously a fan of that in general, but I get why. And, you know, just don't come to me five years from now going like, God, can you believe Christian Vorac sucks? Yes. Very much so. I will absolutely be coming to you and saying that. Don't.

I just said don't. Oh, okay. I just, I just fucking said it. I wasn't listening. That's smart. That's the right call, I'd say. Other than that, I think we're good here. I don't know that anything crazy has happened this morning, so we're good on the news.

Yep. Shout out to the Department of Player Safety for actually doing their jobs a little bit. Apparently, you can't sucker punch dudes during fights. You can give, did you see the Lucas Raymond? spinning elbow? I didn't. No. Who's,

there's like some wrestler has that as their like finishing move. They just, what, like a rolling elbow. Masado Tanaka is the guy that I kind of think of as the, now look, I'm an ECW guy. You know, this is, there's probably other guys that I don't know about. I think of it as being a Masato Tanaka move from FMW and ECW.

Yep. Sick wrestler. His series would be. Mike Awesome is about as good as it gets for me. Like, Awesome. Remember Mike Awesome? I vaguely remember Mike Awesome. It's right in the name.

Mike Awesome kicked ass, man. He was so good. Anyhow. No, I didn't see that. Who'd he elbow and get away with? He elbowed Tommy Novak of the Penguins. Oh, you're... I'm going to find the GIF and send it to you.

Okay. I can't wait to see it. Do that off air. Okay, sounds good. Well, then why don't you give them some plugs and we'll get out of here? I'm back with other Sean and Frankie tomorrow. First time in a few weeks on the Athletic Hockey Show podcast. New version of the Red Light newsletter, new edition, I guess I should say,

of the Red Light newsletter just dropped. And you can find my writing on the athletic. I have a piece coming up probably tomorrow, if I can finish it. one of my favorite stats in all of sports almost ended this weekend which is the Chicago Bears never having a 4,000 yard passer

4,000 yards in the NFL is tough to get to but it's not hard it's like getting 100 pounds. It's not impossible. Yeah, that's right. And the Bears have never, ever had a player do it. And it's weird.

And they almost did. The guy was like 50 yards away. So I kind of am doing a NHL version of that. Just weird stuff that teams have either never done or not done in a very, very long time. We're just going to have some fun with that. I just saw a stat the other day,

speaking of football stats, that the New York Jets finished the season having zero interceptions as a team. Had never happened before. No, it had happened before. It happened once, I think, somebody said. And it was back in like the 30s or something like that where the guy who led the league in passing

had like 980 yards or something. Like they didn't throw the ball. There were no forward passes back then. That's exactly right. It was, yeah, that is very funny, especially because it's the Jets. That's exactly right. You know, it'd be like in hockey. Like if somebody's going to do something like that,

you want it to be like the Leafs or the Sabres or one of those teams. Yeah. Tough here. Oh, you know what? We didn't talk about this. We didn't talk about this with the Leafs. I, you know, the show, the show was long enough already, but I was thinking about if you, like, if you know now that Austin Matthews has passed Matt Sundeen for the,

for the Leafs all-time goal scoring record, like how many teams you think you could, you could get the, like, all-time leading goals scorer for. But we don't, you know. Maybe next week. Well, maybe next week. Because I will completely forget this conversation. so you'll catch me by surprise. But yes, but I didn't.

Shut up to us and Matthew. That is pretty cool. When you become the leading anything for a century old franchise, especially like arguably the single biggest record any individual player can have, that's cool. No, I agree. And I just want to quote, you know, everybody's got their friend whose name is like sludge or whatever. Sure.

I want to quote my friend Sludge here where he said the other day man how bad of a like was Marks ofard the worst assistant coach in the history of the NHL? He may have been. I thought that was a really great point. His whole power play strategy of

ice the puck and then shoot it into the stands and then the new guy comes in he's like maybe shoot it on net and we'll give it try. Matthew's nodding sagely. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, I thought that was funny by sludge.

And, yeah, for me, EliteProspects.com, we're, I'm sure, going to have a ton of World Juniors wrap-up coverage in the next little while here. And there is still, as far as I went there this morning, so I know that they were advertising to me, hey, if you want an annual subscription for, I think it's 33% off. Just sign up now. now's your chance. And I said, of course, I work here, so I don't need a subscription. I just get one for free. And they said, oh, right. So, yeah, go do that.

You're not going to find a better price for quite a while, I would guesstimate. And then go to patreon.com slash puck suit. Get all kinds of bonus episodes, including me and Sean are going to go do a mailbag over there right now. So thank you for listening to. the main show. And, you know, like I said, all kinds of bonus episodes over on the Patreon. Check it out. Thank you for listening. Have a good one. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.